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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 3: There is no point being wrinkle free or having huge cheeks.

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Speaker 3: If your canvas, if your skin isn't all that makeup

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Speaker 3: is my therapy.

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Speaker 1: I'm in love, I'm obsessed, and I don't even feel

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Speaker 1: chailty your body. Hello and welcome to you Beauty, the

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Speaker 1: daily podcast for your Face. I'm Aaron Dougherty and welcome

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Speaker 1: to the formula. Every week I sit down with celebs

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Speaker 1: and some of the biggest names in beauty and take

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Speaker 1: a look into their skincare routines. And today I'm sitting

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Speaker 1: across from doctor Yalder Jamali, a cosmetic doctor based in

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Speaker 1: Sydney who specializes in non invasive beauty treatments. Known for

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Speaker 1: her natural and subtle approach to facial conjuring, Doctor Yelder

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Speaker 1: is all about making her clients look and feel their

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Speaker 1: best without overdoing it.

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Speaker 2: I'm Yalder, cosmetic doctor based in me and here are

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Speaker 2: some tips that I tell my patients to follow. The

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Speaker 2: skin around our eyes is super delicate, so it's important

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Speaker 2: when we're washing it or removing makeup that we are

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Speaker 2: super gentle. Usually using all base cunses removes that I

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Speaker 2: make up a lot easier and prevents those rubbing and

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Speaker 2: tugging at the skin.

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Speaker 1: She knows all too well the hang ups with using

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Speaker 1: too many products regularly seeing patients with inflammation and skin

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Speaker 1: barrier issues, because, in case you missed it, yes, using

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Speaker 1: too many active skincare products can compromise your skin barrier,

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Speaker 1: but at the same time, it's also possible to overfix

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Speaker 1: your skin barrier. Confused here, don't worry. Doctor Yelder is

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Speaker 1: here to help. Plus why injectables it out and skin

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Speaker 1: boosters it in. Let's get into it.

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Speaker 3: You are such beautiful skin.

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Speaker 1: But how doctor Yelder. We're in the midst of winter

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Speaker 1: right now, skin probably in a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: funny stage, maybe a little bit flaky and dry. I

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Speaker 1: want to start by talking about skin barrier. It's obviously

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Speaker 1: a very buzzy word at the moment, and lots of

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Speaker 1: guests I've recently had on the formula have mentioned it

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Speaker 1: in one way or another. So I'm wondering is there

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Speaker 1: such thing as looking after your skin barrier too much?

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Speaker 3: I think with the rise of TikTok and Instagram reels

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Speaker 3: and videos that's out there. Don't get me wrong, I

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Speaker 3: think it's great that people have got access to education

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Speaker 3: and skin education. We're really well informed about what we

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Speaker 3: can and can't do to our skin, what inclinic treatments,

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Speaker 3: what skincare products are out there. However, I do think

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Speaker 3: there's a phenomena of overdoing it, using too many products

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Speaker 3: or too many ingredients. Just because we've heard that this

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Speaker 3: works for someone, or we've seen it on a video,

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Speaker 3: we go buy it, and then at home we've got

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Speaker 3: a concoction of twenty thirty moisturizers and serums, and we

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Speaker 3: kind of don't know what we're doing with them. I

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Speaker 3: always ask my patients if they are coming in for

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Speaker 3: a skin bring in a photo of your skin care products.

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Speaker 3: And when I see it, I'm like, WHOA, you've got

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Speaker 3: a bigger collection than I do.

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Speaker 2: Too much?

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Speaker 1: Take it back?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm like, what are you doing with them? And

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Speaker 3: they kind of can't answer that question at all, and

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Speaker 3: they're like, I kind of see what I'm feeling that night,

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Speaker 3: and I check this on and that on, and I

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Speaker 3: think if you're using wrong ingredients for your skin type

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Speaker 3: and your skin concern. You can be overdoing it where

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Speaker 3: you think you're doing the right thing by buying all

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Speaker 3: of these great ingredients spinning thousands on your skin, but

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Speaker 3: in fact it's doing more harm. Sometimes.

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Speaker 1: I think it's just such an interesting topic because, as

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Speaker 1: you said, it's such a big buzzword on social media,

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Speaker 1: and it can be too much of a good thing,

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Speaker 1: especially you know, even using hyaluronic acid when it's not

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Speaker 1: really suitable for your skin type. We've had an expert

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Speaker 1: on recently who said every skin doesn't suit hyaluronic acid, so.

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Speaker 3: Just and that's one of the calmer ingredients as well, Yeah, precisely.

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Speaker 3: And then you've got people who've got really compromised skin barriers,

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Speaker 3: especially those that have acne prone skin, and they're checking

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Speaker 3: on all of these really strong active ingredients on and

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Speaker 3: there's minimal moisturizing going on in there, and they think

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Speaker 3: they're doing the right thing, but in fact, if they're

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Speaker 3: just hydrated and moisturized and looked after the skin barrier

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Speaker 3: a little bit more, the breakouts will reduce significantly.

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Speaker 1: That's what we want to hear. But that's why we've

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Speaker 1: got you here to tell us all the things. I

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Speaker 1: want to know what products you would use to kind

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Speaker 1: of accomplish protecting your skin barrier. If you can walk

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Speaker 1: me through some products that are great for healing and

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Speaker 1: protecting the skin.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 3: So when you're thinking about healing and protecting skin, you're

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Speaker 3: looking at moisturizing and hydrating ingredients. Just because you've got

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Speaker 3: a moisturizer doesn't actually mean it's protecting and hydrating moisturizers.

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Speaker 3: Moisturizers can have retinols in them, they can have glycolic

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Speaker 3: acid in them, and even though these ingredients are great,

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Speaker 3: if you're using them at the wrong time or if

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Speaker 3: your skin barrier is actually quite compromise, it can further

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Speaker 3: negatively impact your skin. So always look at your essentially

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Speaker 3: moisturizer or serum or even essence and make sure they've

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Speaker 3: got hydrating ingredients in them. So you want to be

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Speaker 3: looking at seramides. Seramides are a really important ingredient when

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Speaker 3: you're looking after your skin barrier. Think about your skin

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Speaker 3: as blocks of bricks, right. Ceramides are the cements they

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Speaker 3: will hold those cells together. They also reduce trans epidermal

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Speaker 3: water loss, so this is water loss through the skin

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Speaker 3: and out, So you want to be trapping all of

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Speaker 3: that skin hydration in them, Glycerine urea sheer butter. If

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Speaker 3: you're after an oil, I really like Squalene. Oil is

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Speaker 3: really great for all skin types. Even if you've got

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Speaker 3: oily acne prone skin doesn't break them out.

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Speaker 1: So those are all ingredients that you can bind on.

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Speaker 1: Like the ingredients list on the back of they're not expensive.

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Speaker 3: They're not expensive products. You can find them in your

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Speaker 3: local chemist, but they will just do the job if

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Speaker 3: you've got a really compromised skin barrier. I always get

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Speaker 3: asked what products do I go for? What brands do

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Speaker 3: I go for? If you're looking for like a moisturizer

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Speaker 3: and a hydrating cleanser, you don't really need to break

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Speaker 3: the bank. You can just go for products such as

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Speaker 3: like sarah v Setophil, Larosh passe Avan. All of these

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Speaker 3: brands have got really good hydrating ranges. So even within

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Speaker 3: these brands, make sure you're going through a hydrating and

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Speaker 3: soothing range.

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Speaker 1: And if you're someone that has compromised skin barrier, you've

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Speaker 1: got your simple cleanses and your simple moist drives. What

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Speaker 1: kind of other ingredients would you recommend working into your retain.

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Speaker 1: In terms of serums, do you need to just completely

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Speaker 1: ignore the serums or should you put certain serums in.

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Speaker 3: If you've got a compromised skin barrier, just focus on

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Speaker 3: hydrating and cleansing. Both of those have to be with

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Speaker 3: really soothing ingredients. If you want to add an active

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Speaker 3: ingredient per se, I would look into polyhydroxy acids. So

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Speaker 3: these are PHAs. Vhs are amazing. They are gentle exfoliators. However,

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Speaker 3: they actually work on ret doring the skin barrier. One

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Speaker 3: of the ranges that I really frequently recommend to my

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Speaker 3: patients is the Newer Strata restore range. Once you've built

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Speaker 3: up that skin barrier, you can then go on to

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Speaker 3: AHA's and other ingredients. The other group of ingredients that

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Speaker 3: you can incorporate is peptides. Pepsides are really soothing. They

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Speaker 3: work on regenerating and repairing the skin barrier. So that's

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Speaker 3: also something else that you can add. I'm not gonna

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Speaker 3: say you definitely need a serum an essence, but look

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Speaker 3: for ingredients. If your cleanser and your moisturizer has got

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Speaker 3: these ingredients in it, you don't actually need to add

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Speaker 3: in another products if it's working for you.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned pha, but you also mentioned peptides. Have you

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Speaker 1: got any specific product or brand you would recommend for peptides?

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Speaker 3: They come in different forms, different price points, so it

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Speaker 3: just depends on your budget. To begin with, I have

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Speaker 3: got a really nice peptide cream. I think it's called

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Speaker 3: like Peptide twenty four as.

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Speaker 1: A red model.

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Speaker 3: The other one that I've been using and I really

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Speaker 3: enjoy is the Medici Peptide serum, So that's a serum.

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Speaker 3: And then I have a in clinic brand which is

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Speaker 3: called Zero Skin Health, the growth Factor serum. Very bougie.

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Speaker 3: If you really want to treat yourself, it's a great serum.

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Speaker 3: I haven't found anything that replaces that for me, is

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Speaker 3: a bit unfortunate because it's quite expensive.

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Speaker 1: Everyone always on this podcast, of course, mentioned skinceutical cephyolic.

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Speaker 1: Do you think there is another product that can have

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Speaker 1: similar results to something like that with a price point

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Speaker 1: of two hundred and thirty three dollars. I know you've

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Speaker 1: got you know, dupes like Paula's choice, not exactly dupes

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Speaker 1: of it, but you know other options.

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Speaker 3: Are the vitamin c's yeah, cheaper, okay. Vitamin C is

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Speaker 3: a hard one because it has to be the right

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Speaker 3: form of vitamin C, and it's got to be stabilized properly.

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Speaker 3: So the ingredients that are added into serums and creams

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Speaker 3: that stabilizes the vitamin C are actually really important, although

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Speaker 3: they're not the main ingredient. Usually those stabilizing ingredients are

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Speaker 3: also the ingredients that makes us break out a little

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Speaker 3: bit warm. Unfortunately, with vitamin C, I have to be honest,

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Speaker 3: it's really hard to find a cheaper version of it

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Speaker 3: that works well. The alpha H vitamin C that isn't

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Speaker 3: a bad one if you're after a vitamin C, but

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Speaker 3: you don't want to spend that much money.

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Speaker 1: It's forty dollars there, you go quite a bit cheaper.

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Speaker 1: The reason I ask is because vitamin C is one

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Speaker 1: of those ingredients like retinol and some of those stronger

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Speaker 1: ingredients that are notoriously tricky to work into your skin careteine,

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Speaker 1: and more often than not, people will use those kind

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Speaker 1: of ingredients daily without realizing how strong they are, or

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Speaker 1: maybe it just doesn't suit their skin type and really

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Speaker 1: do a number on their skin barrier.

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Speaker 3: If you're someone like me, I have spent thousands and

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Speaker 3: tried so many vitamin C products every single one, even

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Speaker 3: the skin sutcors one breaks me out. So if you've

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Speaker 3: tried i'd say two three different price points, different forms

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Speaker 3: of vitamin C, and it's not working out for you,

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Speaker 3: just give up.

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Speaker 1: Just stop, or you just not use any vitamin C

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Speaker 1: in your routine.

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Speaker 3: I don't. I don't use any vitamin C, and I'm

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Speaker 3: quite careful that I don't use derivatives. It could be

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Speaker 3: in your sunscreen, it could be on your serums. A

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Speaker 3: lot of the brightening serums include vitamin C in it

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Speaker 3: as well. And if I use a product and I

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Speaker 3: don't really look at the ink list properly, and then

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Speaker 3: two three weeks later I'm breaking out, I can tell

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Speaker 3: that there's a derivative in there.

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Speaker 1: Ready to rigavic. I've got a lot of friends that

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Speaker 1: say that vitamin C doesn't work for their skin as

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Speaker 1: well and it makes them break out. So your advice

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Speaker 1: would be just don't keep trying. You can use something

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Speaker 1: else that will give you similar results. Do you use

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Speaker 1: a different ingredient that will help brighten your skin.

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Speaker 3: Well, it depends what you're using the vitamin C form.

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Speaker 3: If you're using it for the antioxidant properties, swap that

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Speaker 3: for a nicinamide and a peptide type of cerrum in

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Speaker 3: the morning, less likely to break you out if you're

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Speaker 3: using it for a brightening agent. Vitamin C, although it

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Speaker 3: does have brightening properties, it isn't one of the strongest

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Speaker 3: rosinase inhibitors at them. Torosinase inhibitors are a group of

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Speaker 3: ingredients that inhibit the overproduction of melanin. So if you're

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Speaker 3: looking for vitamin C to reduce your pigments and it's

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Speaker 3: not working and it's breaking you out, swap it for

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Speaker 3: ingredients such as cojuic acid, tronixamic acid, arbit in liquorice extract.

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Speaker 3: They will work a lot better than vitamin C anyway

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Speaker 3: in reducing pigments.

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Speaker 1: Your skin is amazing. So your skin is very glowy,

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Speaker 1: looks like glass. Hard to believe that's actually real skin.

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Speaker 1: Is it just from your skin in care routine or

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Speaker 1: what kind of skincare treatments do you do on a

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Speaker 1: regular basis. I do do a.

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Speaker 3: Lot of inclinic skin treatments. I'm a cosmetic doctor. I

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Speaker 3: have access to it, so I'd be stooping as if

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't. So in terms of what I do at home,

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Speaker 3: I try and keep my skin routine quite simple but effective.

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Speaker 3: So in the morning, I usually wash with either a

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Speaker 3: gentle or a gel based cleanser, depending on how my

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Speaker 3: skin is feeling that day. And then on top of it,

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Speaker 3: I use the Zo Skin Health Complexion Renewal Serum and

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Speaker 3: it has a water soluble BHA serum and it's really great.

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Speaker 3: It's not sticky. I could makeup on it afterwards, and

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Speaker 3: then I put on my mineral based SPF on top,

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Speaker 3: and then my makeup. Recently, I've been using the Clinique

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Speaker 3: Blemish Prone Foundation, and I don't usually talk about makeup,

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Speaker 3: but actually any thing that reduces my breakouts is definitely

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Speaker 3: out of my skin care routine basically, and then in

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Speaker 3: the evening, I make sure that I double cleans. Really

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Speaker 3: important to make sure that you are cleansing for sixty seconds,

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Speaker 3: both in your first cleans and your second cleanse.

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Speaker 1: I've just started doing that properly.

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Speaker 3: I believe that it's like brushing your teeth, right, You've

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Speaker 3: got to make sure you time it. If you don't,

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Speaker 3: you actually don't know how long two minutes is when

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Speaker 3: you're brushing your teeth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I always just like throw some cleanser on

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Speaker 1: and quickly wash it off. And then it was only

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Speaker 1: recently that I'm like, I need to properly give myself

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Speaker 1: a proper cleanse. Yeah, and actually you know, focused on

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Speaker 1: certain areas.

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Speaker 3: And you've got to really like work that cleanser in

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Speaker 3: into your skin. And then I'm using the Clinique Blemish

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Speaker 3: Prone Tona. It's got BH salasilic acid in it. And

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Speaker 3: then I wait minute or two and stuff and do

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Speaker 3: some body care in between it. And then depending on

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Speaker 3: what I'm doing, so I kind of like do a

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Speaker 3: bit of skin cycling. So one night I will do

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Speaker 3: a bit of a mini peel if I'm not doing

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Speaker 3: the BHA tonem. I think it's called micropeel by Meso Aesthetics.

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Speaker 3: Really good. It's got AHA mandelic, lactic and glycolic acid

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Speaker 3: in it, I think. And then I just put on

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Speaker 3: a moisturizer. A couple of moisturizer that I like. One

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Speaker 3: is the Medicaid to Restore moisturizer. Another one that I

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Speaker 3: like is by Clinique. Again it's called Clinical Repair Moisturizer.

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Speaker 3: Another night, I will do a retinol based product. There's

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Speaker 3: loads of retinoids that I love at the Medicaid crystal

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Speaker 3: Retinola's great. You can kind of go up bit by bit,

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Speaker 3: doesn't irritate your skin like some do. If you want

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Speaker 3: a really hardcore retinoid, basically for your skin care, I

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Speaker 3: would opt for a clinic only retinoid. And then some

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Speaker 3: nights I just want to hydrate. I don't want to

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Speaker 3: do any retinoids and I don't want to do any acids.

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Speaker 3: Just wash my face and I put on the growth

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Speaker 3: factor serum Bizeto, the bougie serrum that I told you about,

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Speaker 3: and then I chuck on a moisturizer as well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that was like, so there's a lot of a

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Speaker 1: lot of products. There's a lot of I love it,

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Speaker 1: but I'm taking note. I think my first purchase is

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Speaker 1: going to be the Clinique blemish prone skin product, because

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Speaker 1: you didn't have any blem isshues. So something's working very well.

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Speaker 3: Been really good. All of the products have got a

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Speaker 3: little bit of BHA in it, and my skin does

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Speaker 3: really well with BHA.

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Speaker 1: Hit you've made one of the greatest discoveries of all

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Speaker 1: time or a miss. Never again, Never I want you

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Speaker 1: to tell me a skincare ingredient or technique that you

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Speaker 1: can't live without and when you don't like.

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Speaker 3: Micro needling at home is now big, big no. I

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Speaker 3: think it's really hard to cleanse your skin properly at home.

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Speaker 3: The devices should only be single use if you're doing

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Speaker 3: it at home. Anyway, different skin types and colors will

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Speaker 3: have different risks associated with micro needling. You can damage

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Speaker 3: your skin barrier at home. You can give yourself an infection.

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Speaker 3: If you are a person of color, you can cause

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Speaker 3: pigmentation to your skin. So although it seems a lot

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Speaker 3: cheaper and you're like, why wouldn't I do that at home,

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Speaker 3: it's not worth it. You're better off going to a

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Speaker 3: clinic and getting it done. Something that I love and

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Speaker 3: I think is getting a lot of hype is injectable

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Speaker 3: skin boosters. So I can't really talk about specific ingredients

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Speaker 3: in these skin boosters, but these are treatments that don't

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Speaker 3: change how you look. They don't freeze you, they don't

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Speaker 3: make you look different, they don't augment your facial features.

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Speaker 3: They just improve focus on improving your skin quality.

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Speaker 1: Do you think we're going to be seeing more and

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Speaker 1: more of people approach cosmetic treatments down that kind of

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Speaker 1: avenue instead of plumping up their face instead of you know, absolutely, in.

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Speaker 3: Terms of inclinic treatments, we're definitely going towards stimulating our

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Speaker 3: own collagen and elastin with different ways. These could be devices,

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Speaker 3: these could be chemical peels, these could be some injectable treatments.

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Speaker 3: So we're definitely going down that avenue a lot more.

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Speaker 3: We're focusing on skin health and skin quality. There is

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Speaker 3: no point being wrinkle free or having huge cheeks if

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Speaker 3: your canvas, if your skin isn't all that. Obviously, your

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Speaker 3: skin is the biggest organ in your body, and there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of importance towards looking after it. Also a

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Speaker 3: lot of preventative treatments. So not waiting until you've got

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Speaker 3: lots of pigmentation and skin laxity and lines and wrinkles

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Speaker 3: to come into the clinic and ask for our help,

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Speaker 3: but actually start from even sometimes late twenties, early thirties,

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Speaker 3: what can I do to improve my skin quality? So

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Speaker 3: I'm having more of those conversations over hey, I would

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Speaker 3: like big cheeks. It's changing and I'm here for it.

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Speaker 1: Dot Lda, thank you so much for joining us, having

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Speaker 1: me helpful and very interesting. Thank you that's all for

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Speaker 1: today's show. But if you want more beauty news, check

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Speaker 1: out our beauty newsletter. We've chucked a link to it

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Speaker 1: in the show notes. The producer of You Beauty is

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Speaker 1: Cassie Merritt, with audio editing by lou Hill Sea