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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mom with Mere podcast.

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Speaker 2: Well, everyone liked Claire, didn't there was a big friend

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Speaker 2: in the out louders.

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Speaker 3: This is the problem with taking any time off Jesse.

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Speaker 3: I know, ever just take it as a warning and

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Speaker 3: I'm having twins and stuff. But like he lets someone

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Speaker 3: sitne your seat. Everybody likes him be than you.

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Speaker 2: Oh Claire so funny, Claire so fun I really enjoyed

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Speaker 2: that episode. Well, I'll tell you a thing or two

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Speaker 2: about Claire. You can be really annoying. I have some criticisms,

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Speaker 2: but people were just obsessed with her. They were like

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Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty likes. I wanted to anonymously be like,

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Speaker 2: I find Claire not as good as Jesse. I could,

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Speaker 2: but not as good as good.

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Speaker 3: I know I was feeling defensive for you, but I

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Speaker 3: also wanted to support Claire, so I just stay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I saw you didn't like it, and Amelia's

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Speaker 2: not on Facebook. I don't think so she didn't either.

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Speaker 3: I decided to abstain from joining that conversation.

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Speaker 2: Bet m like, I'm going to.

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Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to mom and Mia out Loud. It's

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Speaker 3: what women actually talking about. On Monday the twenty fourth

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Speaker 3: of November. I'm Holly Wayne.

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Speaker 1: Wright, I'm Emelia Lester, and I'm Jesse Stephen.

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Speaker 3: Not Clare Steve. No, here's what's made our agenda for

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Speaker 3: today's show. My friend, the Duchess of Megan has done

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Speaker 3: in the press a lot. Is the last couple of weeks,

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Speaker 3: she's done a big glossy shoot with Harper's Bizarre. But

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Speaker 3: all anyone's talking about is one little detail.

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Speaker 1: Jesse man and barricades.

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Speaker 4: The millennial uniform is under attack and it's up to

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Speaker 4: us to save it.

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Speaker 2: And have you guys been sensing the vibe shift? Because

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Speaker 2: the man who invented the word vibe shift has invented

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Speaker 2: another word and apparently it sums up how we're all

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Speaker 2: going to be approaching to me, is.

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Speaker 3: That a job like just making up the words for.

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Speaker 2: The vibe Impressed that he made up vibe shift? Imagine

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Speaker 2: Lane claimed.

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Speaker 3: To that I want to do That's not fair, But first,

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Speaker 3: Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 2: In case you missed it, hold on to your Wii. Wait,

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Speaker 2: the new pregnancy test doesn't require you to dart to

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Speaker 2: the bathroom.

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Speaker 3: No pan on a stick.

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Speaker 2: No, it is called the Sally stick. It can detect

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Speaker 2: pregnancy with ninety six percent accuracy from one day after

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Speaker 2: a missed period if you follow your instructions for use.

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Speaker 2: It's the first saliva based pregnancy self test to be

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Speaker 2: approved for use in Australia.

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Speaker 3: Does this suck it?

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Speaker 2: It's a swab situation. Follow the instructions a bit covid.

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Speaker 2: I think you do like a bit of a in

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Speaker 2: your cheeks while your salivee.

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Speaker 3: So you don't shove it up your head.

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Speaker 2: You don't know, I mean you could. I just don't

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Speaker 2: think it would work. But each to their own. Apparently

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Speaker 2: it takes three minutes, so you do a thing in

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Speaker 2: three minutes. I want to know what we all think

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Speaker 2: because I read this and when I don't know if

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Speaker 2: the WE test needs a reinvention of all the things

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Speaker 2: in women's health that it's time to look at and evolve.

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Speaker 2: I don't mind a little way on a stick.

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Speaker 3: But this, this is a little more like you could

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Speaker 3: do it in public, whereas you can't really do your

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Speaker 3: WEI test in public? Could you? For your mom, for

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Speaker 3: your partner, for your doctor, your medical practitioner, Like no

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Speaker 3: one's really being in public. Whereas this, particularly for the

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Speaker 3: moment where we're filming everything for reactions you could do

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Speaker 3: in front of everybody.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so how do we feel about that though? Because

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Speaker 2: it could.

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Speaker 1: It's made for Instagram.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it could change the experience of learning its positive

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Speaker 2: or negative. For women, it has been like, I don't

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Speaker 2: know about you too, but each time I've been on

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Speaker 2: my own inner bathroom and there's this sacred moment.

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Speaker 4: That is such a good point, Like this is taking

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Speaker 4: away that one bit of privacy you want it and

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Speaker 4: potentially making it something that.

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Speaker 2: You do with your point somewhere in the whole world.

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Speaker 2: Even I don't know how I feel about that.

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Speaker 3: I feel good about that. I think, you know, like

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Speaker 3: we've got to remember that all the emotions caught up

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Speaker 3: in the pe that goes on that step. Sometimes you

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Speaker 3: really want it to be negative. Sometimes you really want

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Speaker 3: it to be positive. But sometimes you really want it

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Speaker 3: to be negative, and it's lonely, like it's lonely carrying

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Speaker 3: all that axelent. I mean, I agree with you, Jesse

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Speaker 3: that of all the things that we could fix, I'm

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Speaker 3: not sure that this was one that needed fixing, but

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Speaker 3: I can see the value in like dragging it out

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Speaker 3: of the toilet cubicle.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I suppose as well it might be slightly

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Speaker 2: more hygienic, because I was thinking about how, for some

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Speaker 2: reason I've kept my positive pregnancy so beside my bed.

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Speaker 2: In my bedside draw is a now more than three

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Speaker 2: year old stick of urine that I plan I'm keeping forever.

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Speaker 2: And the way you wave it in people's face. Look

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Speaker 2: at this, I like held Claires when she gave it

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Speaker 2: to me, like you do, and you take photos of it,

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Speaker 2: and it's just passing around you urine. Like maybe it's

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Speaker 2: a little bit more diff We're not as.

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Speaker 3: Precious with spit. Yeah, we're spitting at each other all day.

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Speaker 3: Question if someone was going to announce you every time

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Speaker 3: you walk into a room, what would you want them

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Speaker 3: to say, you know, like in the olden days, and

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Speaker 3: they'd be like, this is missus Jesse of Stevens, you know,

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Speaker 3: fine purveyor of articles and opinions on the internet.

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Speaker 2: I'm feeling like twin pregnancy more than half way. I

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Speaker 2: feel like I'm walking in going fee fi fi file everywhere.

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Speaker 2: I just walked through my house doing like some big

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Speaker 2: stops that how I'm introducing myself.

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Speaker 3: Well, the story that is going around about our good

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Speaker 3: friend Megan Duchess of Sussex at the moment is that

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Speaker 3: she has herself announced when she walks into a room

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Speaker 3: as the Duchess of Sussex.

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Speaker 2: Can you explain this to me because I refused. Actually

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Speaker 2: I read a few little bits of the profile, but

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Speaker 2: I just saw the headline that she demands this is

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Speaker 2: what I do, man, that she demands that before she

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Speaker 2: walks into a room, they say welcome, introducing Meghan, the

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Speaker 2: Duchess of Sussex.

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Speaker 1: Is this true.

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Speaker 3: Well, we don't know if that's true, but what we

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Speaker 3: do know is true is that when she sat down

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Speaker 3: with a journalist called Caitlin Greenridge for Harper's Bizarre, that

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Speaker 3: did happen. So a bit of context, right, This has

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Speaker 3: been Megs's big year of kind of shaking off the

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Speaker 3: shackles of having to be a very private person. And

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Speaker 3: obviously she's had her TV show and as ever is

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Speaker 3: alleged well depending on who you listen to, either going

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Speaker 3: great guns or going really badly. It's got a seasonal

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Speaker 3: launch at the Minute's all mulled wine and hot cider

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Speaker 3: and candles for Christmas, and she's got a special Christmas

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Speaker 3: show coming out on Netflix. So she's on the PR trail.

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Speaker 4: Can I just say about mold wine? Yeah, gives you

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Speaker 4: the worst hangovers in your life.

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Speaker 2: Really, it's not even nice.

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Speaker 3: I don't like, well, it feels cozy, but it smells

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Speaker 3: better than it tastes like candles, like one of her candles,

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Speaker 3: and I don't want to drink those either. But anyway,

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Speaker 3: one of the things that she's done is she sat

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Speaker 3: down for a big cover feature for Harper's Bizarre. It's

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Speaker 3: very classy. If you seen the shoot, you would have

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Speaker 3: seen the show. Yeah, very black and white, very stripped.

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Speaker 4: Back, really interesting choices made about where she's taking your image.

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Speaker 1: But we'll get into it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Like there's very little makeup, there's very little color,

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Speaker 3: which is very on vibe for her. She's always in

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Speaker 3: tasteful neutrals and kitten heels. There's a lot of that.

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Speaker 3: But the journo, so Caitlin Greenridge as who says she

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Speaker 3: is also pretty standard for such a high profile, big

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Speaker 3: celebrity get. She does three different events with MEGS for

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Speaker 3: this profile. She goes and watches her work. When she

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Speaker 3: turns up at sort of a museum in la and

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Speaker 3: there as a group of STEM students girls who Megan's

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Speaker 3: talking to and so she gets to watch her interact

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Speaker 3: with them. Then they sit down for lunch at the

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Speaker 3: Polo Lounge in Hollywood, which, Amelia, you speak American better

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Speaker 3: than I do. But it's a very fancy restaurant where

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Speaker 3: the writer says, you go to be seen.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that is true.

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Speaker 3: So they sit at a very conspicuous table and have lunch.

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Speaker 3: And then for the third part of the interview, they

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Speaker 3: meet in New York City over on the other side

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Speaker 3: of the country, and they meet in a very fancy

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Speaker 3: brownstone on the Upper east Side. Again coded, but I

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Speaker 3: guess that just means posho, really posh. The writer says,

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Speaker 3: we're in a grand brownstone on the Upper east Side

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Speaker 3: that belongs to one of Meghan's friends, brownstones in Brooklyn.

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Speaker 3: Wouldn't it be good if Harry and Meg's bought the

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Speaker 3: Lily Allen House. I don't think they're living in Brooklyn.

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Speaker 3: We're in the grand brownstone. When I enter, the house,

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Speaker 3: manager announces Meghan, Duchess of Sussex, even though we appear

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Speaker 3: to be the only other two people in the house.

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Speaker 4: I just heard the words house manager, and I just

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Speaker 4: thought about all the things that I would delegate to

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Speaker 4: my house manager of my two bedroom flats.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I agree.

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Speaker 3: Now, so that little nugget has traveled around the world,

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Speaker 3: as these things do, right, and said, this is proof

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Speaker 3: of her largess, of her pretentiousness, of the fact that

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Speaker 3: she loves this title. She clearly does love this title.

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Speaker 3: If you go and look at the jam Meghan Duchess

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Speaker 3: of Sussex is everywhere.

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Speaker 1: On her luggage, on her luggage.

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Speaker 3: Stationary podcast credits everywhere, and so that's traveled around the

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Speaker 3: world pretty quickly. The other narrative that's happening is people

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Speaker 3: in America in particular saying that after several years of

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Speaker 3: trying to bed into this high flutint American society, she

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Speaker 3: keeps kind of stuffing it up. That's the narrative. And

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Speaker 3: I wanted to play you this little clip from an

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Speaker 3: interview that Bethany Frankl did. Now Bethany Frankel is put

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Speaker 3: her in some context. She was a real HOUSEWIFEI person,

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Speaker 3: it's a celebrity.

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Speaker 4: Kind of like a celebrity celebrity like she's become a

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Speaker 4: bit of a commentator on celebrity recently. She's also a

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Speaker 4: philanthropist of some note. But she's really become known for

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Speaker 4: her sort of looking in on celebrity culture and explaining

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Speaker 4: it to people.

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Speaker 3: And she knows a lot of fancy people, including Lauren

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Speaker 3: Sanchez who's married to Jeff Bezos. And she compares Megan

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Speaker 3: and Lauren and said the following.

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Speaker 5: I have always said, Lauren Sanchez is Megan Markle with

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Speaker 5: no rules, honey badger, don't give a she doesn't have.

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Speaker 2: To answer to anyone.

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Speaker 1: She can do what she wants.

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Speaker 5: She can have her doubt, they could donate money how

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Speaker 5: they want. And she and Jeff, who I know, are great.

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Speaker 5: I don't care what anyone says.

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Speaker 2: They're great.

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Speaker 3: So obviously Bethan he's a big fan of Lauren and Jeff.

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Speaker 3: But I think this is a really interesting comparison, right

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Speaker 3: is what she's basically saying is marry yourself a very

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Speaker 3: rich man. And the narrative will go in different directions.

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Speaker 3: What do you think.

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Speaker 2: I think that there is something very wise about what

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Speaker 2: she's saying, and it's that the announcing someone as the

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Speaker 2: Duchess of Sussex is incongruous with American culture. It is

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Speaker 2: Americans are sort of allergic to that, I think, and

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Speaker 2: the fact that she's moving now into a celebrity world.

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Speaker 2: She's at the Chris Jenna's seventieth. You know, she has

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Speaker 2: to pretend that she was, although she has to pretend

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Speaker 2: that she wasn't. It's the curation of that image I

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Speaker 2: think is really confusing for people. And what was interesting

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Speaker 2: to me about that detail was that it said she

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Speaker 2: was announce blah blah blah, full stop, and it moved on.

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Speaker 2: And I thought, if you were Megan, you would want

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Speaker 2: to say, oh, none of that, you know, you would

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Speaker 2: want to kind of.

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Speaker 3: Just call me Megs, Just call me Megs.

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Speaker 2: Like that's more the vibe. But the fact she let

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Speaker 2: it stand was an incredibly telling detail, and it was

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Speaker 2: the one thing that in that profile seemed to not

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Speaker 2: be prrified.

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Speaker 3: Do you think she would have given permission for that

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Speaker 3: to stay in the article, Amelia, given what a prestigious

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Speaker 3: magazine that is, how how it would be raid production

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Speaker 3: values on that shoot, three different sit down interviews, do

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Speaker 3: you think she would have said, you can leave that in.

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Speaker 4: I don't think she would have been in a position

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Speaker 4: to ask them to take it out.

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Speaker 1: Let's put it that way.

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Speaker 4: Green Ridge is a well known journalist. She was on

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Speaker 4: the cover of Harper's Bizarre. I don't think she was

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Speaker 4: in a position to dictate the terms. What that reminded

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Speaker 4: me of that detail and the incriminating nature of it

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Speaker 4: in an otherwise film neutral to positive profile was remember

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Speaker 4: her cut cover story, never forget it. And there was

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Speaker 4: one very key detail there that was also written by

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Speaker 4: a prominent journalist as well, certainly not a puff piece,

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Speaker 4: And that one detail that stuck with everyone was the

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Speaker 4: way that Megan narrated herself talking to the reporter, and

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Speaker 4: the reporter compared it to a bachelor producer in her ear.

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Speaker 4: Why people recoiled from that was because the key component

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Speaker 4: of her and Harry's appeal to the US market is authenticity.

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Speaker 1: Their key selling.

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Speaker 4: Point is we left this stuffy, anachronistic, old fashioned royal

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Speaker 4: family to come to America and to be ourselves. But

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Speaker 4: in both this case of the Harper's Bizarre cover, with

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Speaker 4: the announcement coming into the room and with the cut

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Speaker 4: detail of being a producer in the ear, they're both

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Speaker 4: saying she's trying too hard and that she's not being

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Speaker 4: her true, authentic self, and that's a problem for her.

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Speaker 3: Do you think she can do no right? Though there's

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Speaker 3: a large portion of the mediaticular who's very invested in

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Speaker 3: disliking Megan and Harry, but more Megan than Harry, even

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Speaker 3: though really it's Harry who's always trying to soothe them

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Speaker 3: and everything, and no matter what she does, it seems

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Speaker 3: that it's always a misstep. And what I'm interested in

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Speaker 3: is is it a misstep or is that just the

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Speaker 3: narrative we're all invested in that it has to have

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Speaker 3: been a mistake on some level, them leaving the royal family,

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Speaker 3: them moving to Oprah World, all those things, that it

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Speaker 3: has to have been a mistake, and we're just very

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Speaker 3: invested to holding on to her skirts and pulling her down,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Whereas she hasn't done anything terrible.

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Speaker 2: I think she's traumatized by the treatment of the press.

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Speaker 2: The press made her like this and then they punish

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Speaker 2: her for being like this. There's no way she can

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Speaker 2: just show up as her authentic self and behave like

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Speaker 2: who she is. Look at what the press in the

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Speaker 2: UK did to her. She's been torn to shreds.

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Speaker 4: I think that's all true, but I think that there's

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Speaker 4: some evidence that they really have alienated high society on

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Speaker 4: both sides.

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Speaker 1: Of the Atlantic.

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Speaker 4: Look at the fact that they started off friends with

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Speaker 4: the Cloonies, they started off being friendly with the Obamas,

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Speaker 4: and these were the sorts of friends that they should

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Speaker 4: have kept and cultivated in the United States because these

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Speaker 4: are the true A List, and the Cloonies and Obamas

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Speaker 4: are nowhere to be seen. And now they've alienated the Kardashians.

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Speaker 3: Because oh, I see so like the Obamas and the

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Speaker 3: Cloonies are like the blue bloods. And they probably wouldn't

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Speaker 3: go to Christiana's birthday party, although Oprah did. An Oprah

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Speaker 3: is also possibly part of that, and so they wanted

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Speaker 3: to be in that moving in that world and it

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Speaker 3: hasn't worked out. They're trapped between two worlds, right. The

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Speaker 3: other thing that fascinates me a bit about the title is,

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Speaker 3: as we've just seen in Britain play out in confronting details,

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Speaker 3: we've seen a prince be stripped of his title for

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Speaker 3: abhorrent behavior. I've always thought that it would be so

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Speaker 3: cool of Harry and Meghan to step away from those titles,

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Speaker 3: would say so much to say I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: use them anymore. Like it doesn't mean you have to

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Speaker 3: renounce them entirely, but just say I'm not going to

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Speaker 3: use them. You're not going to read here about them

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Speaker 3: in my podcast credits, you're not going to read them

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Speaker 3: on my personal stationary. Same for him and say I

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Speaker 3: don't want to be part of that. This is a

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Speaker 3: new start for me. Why won't they do that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think they get that about American culture.

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Speaker 2: It's all about the American dream. There's something inherently egalitarian

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Speaker 2: in the striving, unashamed ambition.

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Speaker 3: Of which why I guess Franco was making that comparison

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Speaker 3: to Lauren Sanchez because although she gets mocked for being

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Speaker 3: a gold digger inverted commas, she doesn't care.

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Speaker 2: She plays to it in a way like she's self

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Speaker 2: made Lauren Sanchez like she actually is in terms of

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Speaker 2: career and the way she's lived her life.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't go that far.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think she was a well known and acclaimed

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Speaker 4: journey journalist, but I don't think she is entirely self made.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I suppose what I think rub played her myth.

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Speaker 4: We wouldn't be talking about her if she wasn't married

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Speaker 4: to Jeff Bezos.

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Speaker 2: You're right, I reckon that what Rubs people about Duchess

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Speaker 2: of Sussex and that being the introduction. Is that implicit

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Speaker 2: in that is do you think you're better than me?

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Speaker 2: Do you think you're of a different class, a different stature?

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Speaker 2: And that's never going to sit well in the ear.

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Speaker 4: You'll remember when she said to Gloria Stein and they

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Speaker 4: didn't interview together, and she said to Gloria Stein and

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Speaker 4: we are all linked. There's no such thing as a hierarchy,

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Speaker 4: which a lot of people took as a rebuke of

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Speaker 4: the royal family.

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Speaker 1: But you can't say that and then also want the title.

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Speaker 4: Another great analysis of what's gone wrong for Meghan and

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Speaker 4: Harry in America came from Tina Brown last week. Tina

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Speaker 4: Brown is the famed magazine editor who was interviewed by

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Speaker 4: The New York Times, and here is what she had

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Speaker 4: to say to Lulu Garcia Navarro, who's asking the question.

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Speaker 6: Harry and Meghan are also trying to make their own

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Speaker 6: way in the world.

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Speaker 1: Do you think they have anything to offer anymore? I

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Speaker 1: think it's very sad what's happened to them, Actually, I

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Speaker 1: really do.

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Speaker 3: I mean, they've just made so many mistakes.

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Speaker 5: I have never seen any body in professional life make

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Speaker 5: as many mistakes.

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Speaker 1: Certainly as Megan has.

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Speaker 3: It's an interesting I think Tina, that is an overstatement. Also,

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Speaker 3: there is something funny about the idea that, like, I

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Speaker 3: feel sorry for them. It's sad they live in They.

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Speaker 6: Live in an enormous mansion on the coast of California.

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Speaker 6: They have servants, beautiful children, the privacy that Harry always

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Speaker 6: longed for to a point. They have business empires that have,

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Speaker 6: you know, probably doing better than most of us are.

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Speaker 6: They've still got to deal with Netflix no matter what

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Speaker 6: we talk about. So it is kind of funny that

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Speaker 6: sometimes I think we just see what we want to see.

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Speaker 6: We want to believe that this was a failure, so

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Speaker 6: all the narrative has to point that way, you know.

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Speaker 3: What I mean?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, after the break, trend forecasters say the next cultural

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Speaker 2: moment will be something called slopdomism. So what does that

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Speaker 2: actually mean?

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Speaker 3: Sloptimism?

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Speaker 2: We have an early contender for the word of twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty six.

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Speaker 3: Apparently I need a word for twenty six.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I've got your word. We're on the precipice of

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Speaker 2: a vibe shift, and trend forecasters say that it is

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Speaker 2: something called slopdimism. According to an article published in GQ

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Speaker 2: last week. After nearly a decade of moral spectacle, people

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Speaker 2: are rebelling against the demand to care publicly at all times.

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Speaker 2: So the kind of earnest, politically motivated, highly curated world

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Speaker 2: of social media to be countercultural. And this is what

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Speaker 2: the writer Catherine D says is to refuse that spectacle.

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Speaker 2: It is choosing not to turn your life into fuel

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Speaker 2: for various platforms. It is opting out without announcing to

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Speaker 2: your followers that you're opting out. Apparently this is a

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Speaker 2: bit of a reaction or a pendulum swing from the

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Speaker 2: tradwife movement. So Ballerina Farm has been copying a bunch

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Speaker 2: of criticism lately that we'll get to. But more broadly,

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Speaker 2: this echoes a sub stack article that was published last week,

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Speaker 2: which was called the New Call is not needing to

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Speaker 2: be seen.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I feel personally attacked because on the weekend I

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Speaker 3: harvested some potatoes. Yeah, Holly, and I immediately put my

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Speaker 3: potatoes on a meta grant because I was proud of them. Yes,

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00:19:31,234 --> 00:19:32,954
Speaker 3: I am, I very uncool.

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Speaker 2: Well, this is my philosophical question, Holly, is if we

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Speaker 2: do something cool and no one is around to see it,

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Speaker 2: did we really do something cool?

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Speaker 3: Did my potatoes exist. I didn't they live in my

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Speaker 3: tummy now? But did they exist if I didn't put

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Speaker 3: them on Instagram?

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Speaker 2: Okay, one of the three of us is cooler than

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Speaker 2: the rest. That's true because they knew to opt out early.

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Speaker 3: Amelia, maybe she never even opted in.

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Speaker 4: I joined Facebook in two thousand and four, the night

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Speaker 4: it started, and then I left in twenty twelve after

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Speaker 4: I'd had a very bad breakup.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so, Amelia, you're not announcing everything on social You

408
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Speaker 2: are not going here's latest episode about loud. You are

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Speaker 2: not performing content for various different algorithms. Are you.

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Speaker 3: The question somebody poker?

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Speaker 2: Well, you before your time?

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Speaker 1: Was I before my time?

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Speaker 4: No? I don't think so. I think I'm just very insecure,

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Speaker 4: and social media always really fueled that insecure, competitive side

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Speaker 4: of me.

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Speaker 2: It makes you look secure.

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Speaker 4: I went through a really difficult breakup and I just

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Speaker 4: felt like putting myself out there just felt too hard

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Speaker 4: because I felt that I was behind in my life.

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Speaker 4: I felt bad about myself, and it just really accentuated

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Speaker 4: that for me.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't it do that for everyone? Though?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 3: But it also can work the other way when you're

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Speaker 3: happy about things around your life. And you're like, look

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Speaker 3: at my beautiful baby.

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Speaker 2: We're looking at her potatoes on the wakend going I'm.

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Speaker 3: Miss the one that got away. I look at it

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Speaker 3: being in the dirt fighting off worms for those funds.

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Speaker 4: But I think what we all know intuitively is that

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Speaker 4: when we spend time away from our phone, so broadening

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Speaker 4: this out from to social media to your phone, you

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Speaker 4: feel better about stuff.

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Speaker 1: So on Friday night I did something.

435
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Speaker 4: I went camping for the first time, just a night

436
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Speaker 4: of camping, and my phone died because of course we

437
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Speaker 4: didn't have any electricity, And so I woke up the

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Speaker 4: next morning and my phone was dead, and I was

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Speaker 4: without a phone for a few hours. And at first

440
00:21:44,354 --> 00:21:46,314
Speaker 4: I was anxious, like I sort of tried to track

441
00:21:46,354 --> 00:21:48,874
Speaker 4: my emotions. At first, I felt very worried that a

442
00:21:48,914 --> 00:21:50,434
Speaker 4: lot of things had happened in the world and that

443
00:21:50,474 --> 00:21:52,834
Speaker 4: I didn't know about them. Maybe someone was trying to

444
00:21:52,874 --> 00:21:54,634
Speaker 4: reach me about something amazing and.

445
00:21:54,594 --> 00:21:55,234
Speaker 1: I didn't know.

446
00:21:55,314 --> 00:21:58,474
Speaker 4: And there really was at first this wave of anxiety

447
00:21:58,514 --> 00:21:59,874
Speaker 4: about not being connected.

448
00:22:00,274 --> 00:22:02,994
Speaker 1: But then after that I noticed a sense of calm.

449
00:22:02,754 --> 00:22:06,634
Speaker 4: Took over because I realized that anyone who actually really

450
00:22:06,714 --> 00:22:08,274
Speaker 4: needed to contact me it could.

451
00:22:08,034 --> 00:22:09,554
Speaker 1: Wait all of this could wait.

452
00:22:10,114 --> 00:22:13,314
Speaker 4: And this is actually a phenomenon that has been labeled.

453
00:22:13,394 --> 00:22:17,394
Speaker 4: It's been called the dark forest, and this is referring

454
00:22:17,394 --> 00:22:20,114
Speaker 4: to the parts of the culture that are now avoiding

455
00:22:20,194 --> 00:22:24,274
Speaker 4: algorithmic exposure. Stuff that you don't post online is dark forest.

456
00:22:24,794 --> 00:22:27,634
Speaker 4: And the dark forest is where you gain all the

457
00:22:27,754 --> 00:22:31,794
Speaker 4: serenity and peace of walking through an actual forest.

458
00:22:31,954 --> 00:22:35,754
Speaker 2: Okay, because you actually have your finger on the pulse here.

459
00:22:35,954 --> 00:22:40,114
Speaker 2: There was an article in the fin Review last month

460
00:22:40,554 --> 00:22:44,314
Speaker 2: that said, basically, we have passed peak social media. It

461
00:22:44,394 --> 00:22:46,874
Speaker 2: said that it's gone largely unnoticed, but it peaked in

462
00:22:46,874 --> 00:22:49,234
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, and it is going right down.

463
00:22:49,874 --> 00:22:50,793
Speaker 1: To the dark forest.

464
00:22:50,874 --> 00:22:53,954
Speaker 2: Yeah, people have just had enough. What was once like

465
00:22:54,234 --> 00:22:58,714
Speaker 2: engaging and posting is now basically we go on there

466
00:22:58,754 --> 00:23:01,994
Speaker 2: to scroll. But I think it said North America is

467
00:23:01,994 --> 00:23:04,554
Speaker 2: a one place where it hasn't gone down, but everywhere

468
00:23:04,554 --> 00:23:09,954
Speaker 2: else Europe, Australia usage is declining, and so has the

469
00:23:10,554 --> 00:23:14,154
Speaker 2: bubble burst. I keep seeing articles as well saying that

470
00:23:14,194 --> 00:23:15,714
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six is going to be the year we

471
00:23:15,754 --> 00:23:19,194
Speaker 2: go analogue, like the year we put our phones down.

472
00:23:19,234 --> 00:23:21,074
Speaker 3: Do we think that's fay? I have a couple of

473
00:23:21,114 --> 00:23:23,994
Speaker 3: theories about this, And one of them is that I

474
00:23:24,074 --> 00:23:26,474
Speaker 3: know lots of people who aren't on social media, but

475
00:23:26,514 --> 00:23:28,234
Speaker 3: they're still on social media, do you know what I mean.

476
00:23:28,354 --> 00:23:31,354
Speaker 3: They don't post, but they partake. So they might not

477
00:23:31,474 --> 00:23:34,554
Speaker 3: be on Instagram, but they still Instagram is still their entertainment.

478
00:23:34,594 --> 00:23:36,793
Speaker 3: They might not ever post to TikTok, but TikTok is

479
00:23:36,794 --> 00:23:39,194
Speaker 3: still their TV feed, you know, all of those things.

480
00:23:39,274 --> 00:23:41,394
Speaker 3: So I think there's that right as part of it.

481
00:23:41,874 --> 00:23:44,434
Speaker 3: I think that a generous read is that we've worked

482
00:23:44,474 --> 00:23:47,114
Speaker 3: out what part we want that to play in our lives,

483
00:23:47,514 --> 00:23:49,074
Speaker 3: and if we don't want it to have anything to

484
00:23:49,154 --> 00:23:51,513
Speaker 3: do with us personally, as you say, Melia, like I

485
00:23:51,554 --> 00:23:54,314
Speaker 3: don't want to be feeling bad about my potatoes or whatever.

486
00:23:54,874 --> 00:23:57,073
Speaker 3: You don't have to do that, but you can still

487
00:23:57,194 --> 00:24:00,354
Speaker 3: observe other people and absorb your entertainment and news that way.

488
00:24:00,394 --> 00:24:01,354
Speaker 3: So that's a mature way.

489
00:24:01,474 --> 00:24:04,514
Speaker 4: We don't call them lurkers, right, And I think that

490
00:24:04,594 --> 00:24:08,034
Speaker 4: the percentage of lurkers has increased very much.

491
00:24:08,074 --> 00:24:10,394
Speaker 3: And I also don't think there's any shade about that.

492
00:24:10,554 --> 00:24:11,874
Speaker 3: I think there used to be a little bit of

493
00:24:11,874 --> 00:24:15,354
Speaker 3: an idea that lurkers were somehow free loading, like what

494
00:24:15,514 --> 00:24:18,354
Speaker 3: you're just there like taking and not giving. But I

495
00:24:18,394 --> 00:24:20,553
Speaker 3: think that you know, we've been living a decade in

496
00:24:20,594 --> 00:24:23,634
Speaker 3: this world now, and I think that people are figuring

497
00:24:23,674 --> 00:24:26,154
Speaker 3: out because we all know that what you're saying is true, Amelia,

498
00:24:26,194 --> 00:24:27,994
Speaker 3: that phones are making us sick in lots of ways.

499
00:24:28,274 --> 00:24:29,874
Speaker 3: So a lot of people are trying to are figuring

500
00:24:29,914 --> 00:24:32,074
Speaker 3: out what role they wanted to play if I have

501
00:24:32,114 --> 00:24:33,994
Speaker 3: a problem, and I don't have any problem with people

502
00:24:33,994 --> 00:24:37,313
Speaker 3: making smart choices about their mental health, but there are

503
00:24:37,314 --> 00:24:39,514
Speaker 3: a lot of articles at the minute saying how uncool

504
00:24:39,554 --> 00:24:42,474
Speaker 3: it is to share, And I think that that is

505
00:24:42,594 --> 00:24:46,314
Speaker 3: because now everybody does it, it can't possibly be cool, do

506
00:24:46,354 --> 00:24:48,033
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? As in, more and more

507
00:24:48,074 --> 00:24:50,274
Speaker 3: people make a living from social media, whether they are

508
00:24:50,874 --> 00:24:53,714
Speaker 3: content creators or whether they're just promoting their work, their

509
00:24:53,754 --> 00:24:57,754
Speaker 3: headdressing salon, their catering business there, whatever they're doing, Like

510
00:24:58,154 --> 00:25:00,434
Speaker 3: everybody's doing that, so how could it possibly be cool?

511
00:25:00,594 --> 00:25:00,833
Speaker 4: You know?

512
00:25:00,914 --> 00:25:03,394
Speaker 3: And I saw this headline on a subsetet the other

513
00:25:03,474 --> 00:25:05,793
Speaker 3: day that was like, the new call is not needing

514
00:25:05,834 --> 00:25:08,553
Speaker 3: to be seen, but it's also the new call is

515
00:25:08,634 --> 00:25:11,033
Speaker 3: kind of being rich enough to not have to flog

516
00:25:11,074 --> 00:25:15,513
Speaker 3: yourself on social media, because if you're selling whatever it

517
00:25:15,594 --> 00:25:18,314
Speaker 3: is you make or you're in or yourself on social media,

518
00:25:18,354 --> 00:25:20,954
Speaker 3: you clearly need the money. And that's never been cool,

519
00:25:21,274 --> 00:25:23,674
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. So I think there's almost

520
00:25:23,754 --> 00:25:28,714
Speaker 3: a little bit of snobbery about it. There's a status

521
00:25:28,754 --> 00:25:31,394
Speaker 3: in you know, the coolest writers are not on Instagram

522
00:25:31,434 --> 00:25:33,394
Speaker 3: because it's a swing to say I don't need this

523
00:25:33,514 --> 00:25:35,714
Speaker 3: to sell my books. The rest of us are all

524
00:25:35,714 --> 00:25:36,634
Speaker 3: there hustling away.

525
00:25:37,874 --> 00:25:44,314
Speaker 4: There's one exception's jk Rowling social media.

526
00:25:44,754 --> 00:25:47,714
Speaker 3: She's not trying to sell books on their she trying

527
00:25:47,754 --> 00:25:49,354
Speaker 3: to sell something entirely.

528
00:25:49,634 --> 00:25:52,754
Speaker 2: Because I was wondering if the bubble has burst in

529
00:25:52,954 --> 00:25:58,073
Speaker 2: terms of we've followed people's lives. We thought it was

530
00:25:58,514 --> 00:26:02,434
Speaker 2: authentic and real and parasocial. I think, isn't that the

531
00:26:02,434 --> 00:26:05,714
Speaker 2: word of something, the connections that we have with people

532
00:26:05,754 --> 00:26:10,554
Speaker 2: we follow. The bubble has burst in terms of people going, oh,

533
00:26:10,754 --> 00:26:12,994
Speaker 2: everyone's trying to sell me something. So that's what I

534
00:26:13,034 --> 00:26:16,474
Speaker 2: think has happened with Ballerina Farm. Who is Hannah Nielman,

535
00:26:16,714 --> 00:26:19,314
Speaker 2: the Utah tried wife with ten kids, and she kind

536
00:26:19,314 --> 00:26:21,793
Speaker 2: of went, here's my life. I live on a farm.

537
00:26:22,114 --> 00:26:27,314
Speaker 2: It was this almost appealing, simpler slower existence that people

538
00:26:27,394 --> 00:26:32,234
Speaker 2: leaned into, only to discover that her husband is worth

539
00:26:32,474 --> 00:26:35,634
Speaker 2: allegedly hundreds of millions of dollars because of his father

540
00:26:35,674 --> 00:26:36,394
Speaker 2: owns Jet Blue.

541
00:26:36,434 --> 00:26:37,994
Speaker 3: The airs hard.

542
00:26:38,154 --> 00:26:42,034
Speaker 2: She's hustling hard and she recently she has this storefront

543
00:26:42,354 --> 00:26:45,273
Speaker 2: where she's selling a shopping board that retails for about

544
00:26:45,274 --> 00:26:49,314
Speaker 2: four hundred Australian dollars. And everyone's kind of going whether

545
00:26:49,354 --> 00:26:52,514
Speaker 2: they feel like it's greed or they're always being asked

546
00:26:52,634 --> 00:26:56,434
Speaker 2: for something, like every time they now open a various

547
00:26:56,474 --> 00:26:59,674
Speaker 2: social media app you are always being asked to pay,

548
00:27:00,274 --> 00:27:03,114
Speaker 2: and that's because people need to make a living.

549
00:27:03,194 --> 00:27:07,034
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's become a promotional platform exactly, but I think

550
00:27:07,514 --> 00:27:10,514
Speaker 3: that in a way, as we've become savvier about that,

551
00:27:11,114 --> 00:27:13,954
Speaker 3: it's less disingenuous. You know, some of the most popular

552
00:27:13,994 --> 00:27:16,714
Speaker 3: content creators on the Internet, when you go to their feeds,

553
00:27:16,714 --> 00:27:18,434
Speaker 3: it used to be this assumption that you have to

554
00:27:18,474 --> 00:27:20,914
Speaker 3: share some of yourself and then do an ad, and

555
00:27:20,954 --> 00:27:22,794
Speaker 3: then share some of yourself and then do an AD.

556
00:27:22,834 --> 00:27:25,274
Speaker 3: And I think that the savvy creators have just done

557
00:27:25,274 --> 00:27:27,914
Speaker 3: away with that and it's just all acts there. You know,

558
00:27:27,954 --> 00:27:29,714
Speaker 3: you'll go to their feeds and it'll be nearly all

559
00:27:29,754 --> 00:27:32,513
Speaker 3: sponkn but it's entertaining interesting spon con and I think

560
00:27:32,594 --> 00:27:33,474
Speaker 3: people get it.

561
00:27:33,554 --> 00:27:35,994
Speaker 2: They're like, is it though, or are people going, I

562
00:27:36,034 --> 00:27:38,793
Speaker 2: don't want to spend my spare time watching ads.

563
00:27:38,874 --> 00:27:41,954
Speaker 4: I heard on the weekend that Ezra Kleine said that

564
00:27:42,074 --> 00:27:44,954
Speaker 4: he's stopped calling it social media. He started calling it

565
00:27:45,034 --> 00:27:48,994
Speaker 4: algorithmic media. And this is basically summarizing the shift you're

566
00:27:48,994 --> 00:27:51,474
Speaker 4: talking about, Holly. It's moved from a place where people

567
00:27:51,634 --> 00:27:55,314
Speaker 4: shared themselves and their lives to being an advertising platform.

568
00:27:55,554 --> 00:27:58,194
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. I think a lot of people who are

569
00:27:58,234 --> 00:28:00,554
Speaker 3: still on it, and lots of ordinary people are still

570
00:28:00,594 --> 00:28:04,434
Speaker 3: all over social media. We've just got savvier, I think,

571
00:28:04,634 --> 00:28:06,914
Speaker 3: at understanding what to share and what not. And this

572
00:28:06,994 --> 00:28:08,914
Speaker 3: is why, you know all the discussion that's going on

573
00:28:08,914 --> 00:28:11,034
Speaker 3: around whether or not children should be there. I think

574
00:28:11,034 --> 00:28:13,674
Speaker 3: in ten years time we will be absolutely astounded we

575
00:28:13,754 --> 00:28:16,234
Speaker 3: ever let children on there. And I think that now

576
00:28:16,274 --> 00:28:18,234
Speaker 3: people are kind of like, well, I like it, I

577
00:28:18,314 --> 00:28:20,114
Speaker 3: enjoy it. I see things there that I like. I

578
00:28:20,194 --> 00:28:22,874
Speaker 3: watch the funny videos. I'm on TikTok whatever, But I

579
00:28:22,914 --> 00:28:25,114
Speaker 3: know I would never share my potatoes, do you know

580
00:28:25,194 --> 00:28:27,714
Speaker 3: what I mean? I think our own Little World.

581
00:28:27,874 --> 00:28:31,034
Speaker 2: In response to that though, and rather than it being

582
00:28:31,034 --> 00:28:35,194
Speaker 2: this social media engagement platform, it is now as you say,

583
00:28:35,794 --> 00:28:38,034
Speaker 2: tech companies going all right, how can we harness attention

584
00:28:38,154 --> 00:28:41,354
Speaker 2: for a particular period of time. I read over the

585
00:28:41,394 --> 00:28:44,354
Speaker 2: weekend that fifty percent of what exists on the Internet

586
00:28:44,554 --> 00:28:48,794
Speaker 2: is they called it bot stew, So it's not real,

587
00:28:49,194 --> 00:28:54,714
Speaker 2: it's not actual people, it's AI generated, it's just slot. Yeah,

588
00:28:54,914 --> 00:28:58,234
Speaker 2: and I wonder if that is leading towards We've talked

589
00:28:58,274 --> 00:29:00,914
Speaker 2: on the show months ago about in shitification and how

590
00:29:00,914 --> 00:29:02,314
Speaker 2: everything is just getting.

591
00:29:02,034 --> 00:29:03,594
Speaker 1: Shit out and it is dying.

592
00:29:03,754 --> 00:29:06,554
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Internet is dying. It's like the experience of

593
00:29:06,594 --> 00:29:10,194
Speaker 2: being on these apps is objectively getting shitter. At some

594
00:29:10,314 --> 00:29:13,754
Speaker 2: point people will just go, this isn't fun anymore and

595
00:29:13,834 --> 00:29:16,994
Speaker 2: just put it down. My friends who don't have social media,

596
00:29:17,394 --> 00:29:19,874
Speaker 2: who I still think are the coolest of all my friends,

597
00:29:20,194 --> 00:29:22,194
Speaker 2: all left after a breakup. I think it was meant

598
00:29:22,194 --> 00:29:25,834
Speaker 2: to be a temporary thing, and they just never went back.

599
00:29:25,874 --> 00:29:27,514
Speaker 1: Why do you think that that happens.

600
00:29:28,074 --> 00:29:31,914
Speaker 2: I think because it was the only way to draw

601
00:29:32,034 --> 00:29:35,354
Speaker 2: boundaries around themselves and the other person. It was the

602
00:29:35,434 --> 00:29:39,354
Speaker 2: constant prospect of surveillance that they were not comfortable with,

603
00:29:39,834 --> 00:29:42,554
Speaker 2: and then they realized that it was fine. This guy

604
00:29:42,594 --> 00:29:44,914
Speaker 2: didn't fall in They could exist without it, and in

605
00:29:44,914 --> 00:29:45,754
Speaker 2: fact that emits it.

606
00:29:45,954 --> 00:29:47,954
Speaker 3: But also not only the person that you broke up with,

607
00:29:47,994 --> 00:29:50,674
Speaker 3: but everybody else who's speculating about your breakup. How is

608
00:29:50,714 --> 00:29:53,034
Speaker 3: she doing? How does she look? Is she with somebody else?

609
00:29:53,074 --> 00:29:54,794
Speaker 3: He's with somebody else? Is she like? It's just that

610
00:29:54,954 --> 00:29:57,594
Speaker 3: constant chatter about your life that you just don't need.

611
00:29:57,594 --> 00:29:59,834
Speaker 2: You know how after a breakup you kind of just

612
00:29:59,954 --> 00:30:03,154
Speaker 2: want to take to your bed for like weeks, if

613
00:30:03,194 --> 00:30:06,554
Speaker 2: not months. It's that it's the Internet version of that

614
00:30:07,274 --> 00:30:09,554
Speaker 2: want to close my bedroom door and lick my wounds.

615
00:30:09,674 --> 00:30:11,634
Speaker 4: Not take to your bed, but take to the forest

616
00:30:12,954 --> 00:30:15,114
Speaker 4: after the break a leggings dead?

617
00:30:15,474 --> 00:30:17,674
Speaker 1: Or is this an Emperor's New Clothes situation?

618
00:30:18,594 --> 00:30:22,354
Speaker 3: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday

619
00:30:22,394 --> 00:30:26,474
Speaker 3: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link

620
00:30:26,474 --> 00:30:28,234
Speaker 3: in the show notes to get us in your ears

621
00:30:28,514 --> 00:30:31,234
Speaker 3: five days a week, and a huge thank you to

622
00:30:31,434 --> 00:30:33,034
Speaker 3: all our current subscribers.

623
00:30:37,634 --> 00:30:39,834
Speaker 4: If you are listening to this on a Hot Girl walk,

624
00:30:40,034 --> 00:30:42,634
Speaker 4: as I like to listen to podcasts, stop and look

625
00:30:42,674 --> 00:30:44,954
Speaker 4: down at what you're wearing, and if it's leggings, I

626
00:30:45,034 --> 00:30:48,514
Speaker 4: have some really bad news for you. The millennial uniform

627
00:30:48,554 --> 00:30:52,154
Speaker 4: of leggings is under attack from all sides. Let me

628
00:30:52,234 --> 00:30:55,554
Speaker 4: share a few data points with you. The first comes

629
00:30:55,554 --> 00:30:58,634
Speaker 4: to us from the Trump administration. They've decided that leggings

630
00:30:58,634 --> 00:31:02,514
Speaker 4: are no good. Trump's Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy unveiled a

631
00:31:02,594 --> 00:31:05,314
Speaker 4: campaign last week about returning to the golden age of

632
00:31:05,354 --> 00:31:08,394
Speaker 4: air travel, and he said that the reason why flying

633
00:31:08,474 --> 00:31:11,194
Speaker 4: sucks now is because everyone's wearing their trackie decks and

634
00:31:11,234 --> 00:31:13,394
Speaker 4: their leggings on the plane, and that they have to

635
00:31:13,434 --> 00:31:14,274
Speaker 4: start dressing up.

636
00:31:14,714 --> 00:31:17,434
Speaker 1: That's point number one. Point number two.

637
00:31:17,554 --> 00:31:21,354
Speaker 4: In July, Business of Fashion, very important publication for the

638
00:31:21,394 --> 00:31:25,034
Speaker 4: fashion industry, declared that the rain of leggings is over.

639
00:31:25,554 --> 00:31:28,794
Speaker 4: It's said that millennials helped crown leggings as the ultimate

640
00:31:28,874 --> 00:31:31,914
Speaker 4: do everything uniform. And you will not be surprised by this.

641
00:31:32,394 --> 00:31:36,194
Speaker 4: Jen Z has decided that leggings are uncool and they

642
00:31:36,234 --> 00:31:40,034
Speaker 4: are gravitating towards oversized, slouchier workout clothes.

643
00:31:40,394 --> 00:31:41,154
Speaker 1: A couple of other.

644
00:31:41,114 --> 00:31:42,754
Speaker 4: Quick points, and then I want to see what you think.

645
00:31:43,114 --> 00:31:46,154
Speaker 4: Millie Bobby Brown has a ath leisure line, which I

646
00:31:46,194 --> 00:31:48,634
Speaker 4: did not know, but the twenty two year old Death

647
00:31:48,674 --> 00:31:52,154
Speaker 4: Leisure line. There's no leggings. There's track pants, there's miniskirts,

648
00:31:52,234 --> 00:31:53,634
Speaker 4: there's cotton boxes, but.

649
00:31:53,634 --> 00:31:54,634
Speaker 1: Not a legging insight.

650
00:31:54,874 --> 00:31:58,674
Speaker 4: And finally, Lululemon, the people who made leggings, what they

651
00:31:58,714 --> 00:32:01,994
Speaker 4: are Their stock is tanking, so they're moving towards big,

652
00:32:02,034 --> 00:32:03,914
Speaker 4: baggy silhouettes.

653
00:32:03,314 --> 00:32:04,634
Speaker 1: And that's a real sign of the times.

654
00:32:04,714 --> 00:32:09,314
Speaker 4: Wow, Jesse, fellow millennial, are you going to invest in

655
00:32:09,434 --> 00:32:14,154
Speaker 4: cotton trousers and marino wool shorts to work out in?

656
00:32:14,274 --> 00:32:17,554
Speaker 4: As per the Sydney Morning Herald advising us recently, you

657
00:32:17,674 --> 00:32:18,394
Speaker 4: know it's.

658
00:32:18,274 --> 00:32:22,674
Speaker 2: Bad when even I've been feeling it, I've been feeling

659
00:32:22,754 --> 00:32:25,914
Speaker 2: the attack. What I'm actually going to invest in is

660
00:32:25,954 --> 00:32:29,634
Speaker 2: a parachute pant. Have you seen those with the elastic.

661
00:32:29,994 --> 00:32:34,474
Speaker 3: We bought a pair of those last week. You're so right, Jesse,

662
00:32:34,594 --> 00:32:37,394
Speaker 3: because I was thinking about how I have only just

663
00:32:38,314 --> 00:32:40,954
Speaker 3: embraced what Mia was wearing two years, you know, which

664
00:32:40,994 --> 00:32:42,554
Speaker 3: is what I'm seeing every which is kind of like

665
00:32:42,594 --> 00:32:44,354
Speaker 3: the tracking pants with the stripes down the side.

666
00:32:44,394 --> 00:32:44,674
Speaker 1: Sport.

667
00:32:45,394 --> 00:32:48,114
Speaker 3: Yeah, they feel kind of like a bit more elevated

668
00:32:48,114 --> 00:32:51,354
Speaker 3: than just trackie pants. But they're still tracky pants. And

669
00:32:51,394 --> 00:32:54,194
Speaker 3: then last week I went to a shop and added

670
00:32:54,274 --> 00:32:56,394
Speaker 3: US shop and I bought a pair of pants that

671
00:32:56,434 --> 00:33:00,034
Speaker 3: I didn't realize are parachute pants. And if I'm doing

672
00:33:00,074 --> 00:33:02,874
Speaker 3: that when everyone else was doing it, when the very

673
00:33:02,874 --> 00:33:05,994
Speaker 3: cool people were doing it two years ago with pit mainstream.

674
00:33:05,594 --> 00:33:08,394
Speaker 2: They remind me of being in year three in its

675
00:33:08,434 --> 00:33:11,194
Speaker 2: sports day. And I've got my parachute pants on.

676
00:33:11,514 --> 00:33:13,714
Speaker 3: But Jesse, are you exercising in those? I mean, I

677
00:33:13,714 --> 00:33:15,834
Speaker 3: know you're struggling to excise a bit at the minute,

678
00:33:15,874 --> 00:33:18,994
Speaker 3: but like, I don't think that just because you've got

679
00:33:19,154 --> 00:33:23,114
Speaker 3: sort of stuff, But like I'm wearing those, but not

680
00:33:23,154 --> 00:33:26,514
Speaker 3: to exercise in. I couldn't imagine exercising in anything other

681
00:33:26,594 --> 00:33:28,674
Speaker 3: than leggings. Is that because I've been indoctrinated?

682
00:33:28,794 --> 00:33:29,714
Speaker 1: Yes it is, Yeah it is.

683
00:33:29,754 --> 00:33:32,314
Speaker 4: And in fact so sky Ting, which is like the

684
00:33:32,394 --> 00:33:35,874
Speaker 4: trendiest yoga studio in America, Like in nobody wants this.

685
00:33:36,434 --> 00:33:39,274
Speaker 4: There was a sky Ting sweatshirt to give you an idea.

686
00:33:39,754 --> 00:33:42,514
Speaker 4: The founder of that yoga company said, you don't need

687
00:33:42,554 --> 00:33:45,834
Speaker 4: technical apparel. You are not running a marathon where you

688
00:33:45,874 --> 00:33:49,714
Speaker 4: need things to compress your legs. You need to feel weightless.

689
00:33:49,754 --> 00:33:52,714
Speaker 4: And unbound, weightless and unbound, that's what we need.

690
00:33:52,834 --> 00:33:55,434
Speaker 2: I've been wearing my flares. I got in a few

691
00:33:55,434 --> 00:33:57,514
Speaker 2: different colors, and I've been wearing them.

692
00:33:57,674 --> 00:34:01,994
Speaker 4: Apparently they're okay for the moment. Leggings, You're okay.

693
00:34:02,154 --> 00:34:03,634
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wear my flare leggings.

694
00:34:03,834 --> 00:34:05,514
Speaker 3: So that still got what Maya would refer to as

695
00:34:05,514 --> 00:34:06,554
Speaker 3: a cameltoe situation.

696
00:34:07,274 --> 00:34:09,633
Speaker 2: Yes, yes they are. I haven't let go of that,

697
00:34:10,034 --> 00:34:10,633
Speaker 2: but I.

698
00:34:10,714 --> 00:34:17,314
Speaker 3: Otherwise very much needs to have I'm not from my

699
00:34:17,514 --> 00:34:18,514
Speaker 3: cold dead.

700
00:34:18,594 --> 00:34:20,554
Speaker 2: Nowhere in the research did it say that we were

701
00:34:20,554 --> 00:34:24,314
Speaker 2: getting rid of the cameltoe. I read it very very

702
00:34:25,954 --> 00:34:28,834
Speaker 2: and that was fine. I've also been wearing like a

703
00:34:28,874 --> 00:34:31,714
Speaker 2: baggie a short. My only issue with a baggie is

704
00:34:31,834 --> 00:34:34,514
Speaker 2: short is that if you do anything like abs or

705
00:34:34,514 --> 00:34:37,873
Speaker 2: like tabletop, everyone can see up into your underpants, and

706
00:34:37,954 --> 00:34:39,514
Speaker 2: same with like pilates or right.

707
00:34:39,994 --> 00:34:43,074
Speaker 4: Never not wear shorts and feel like Steve Berl won't like.

708
00:34:43,154 --> 00:34:47,354
Speaker 1: It's just not attractive on me. I'm sorry they are.

709
00:34:47,514 --> 00:34:50,194
Speaker 2: They look I don't think they're attractive, but I wonder if,

710
00:34:50,754 --> 00:34:56,114
Speaker 2: to be clear, they don't look good. It's like this

711
00:34:57,114 --> 00:35:00,194
Speaker 2: body neutrality thing. Is this about going? This is my

712
00:35:00,634 --> 00:35:04,994
Speaker 2: optimistic view on it going. There was something about the

713
00:35:05,194 --> 00:35:08,154
Speaker 2: like leggings with the matching sports buh, with the blood.

714
00:35:08,274 --> 00:35:10,114
Speaker 2: It was all this status symbol and it was all

715
00:35:10,154 --> 00:35:14,474
Speaker 2: figure hugging, and it was like the gym was a

716
00:35:14,554 --> 00:35:18,554
Speaker 2: performance and male gayzy or whatever. I wonder if this

717
00:35:18,674 --> 00:35:19,953
Speaker 2: is a big middle finger to that.

718
00:35:19,994 --> 00:35:23,354
Speaker 1: If we can get so charitable, that is so charitable.

719
00:35:23,594 --> 00:35:26,554
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know that i've yet. I'm still seeing

720
00:35:26,594 --> 00:35:30,154
Speaker 3: body con when you're out at night right in fact time,

721
00:35:30,274 --> 00:35:32,393
Speaker 3: that's when I'm seeing it more. You know, it's like

722
00:35:32,434 --> 00:35:36,754
Speaker 3: people wearing that sort of Kim kardashiany very tight things. Yeah,

723
00:35:36,834 --> 00:35:40,073
Speaker 3: out at night. There's no question that, say, the cool

724
00:35:40,114 --> 00:35:43,074
Speaker 3: girls in our office, they all wear baggy, shapeless clothes

725
00:35:43,154 --> 00:35:45,194
Speaker 3: nearly all the time. There's no judgment in that, yeah,

726
00:35:45,234 --> 00:35:48,154
Speaker 3: which is really noticeable in terms of I think that's

727
00:35:48,194 --> 00:35:52,234
Speaker 3: the look. It's androgynous. It's cool to be quite covered up, right.

728
00:35:52,154 --> 00:35:54,994
Speaker 2: Yeah, or to pare baggy with tight That's what I

729
00:35:55,034 --> 00:35:56,994
Speaker 2: read in many that you do kind of a baggy

730
00:35:57,074 --> 00:35:58,954
Speaker 2: pant and then you wear a sports bra or something.

731
00:35:59,314 --> 00:36:01,194
Speaker 2: But I reckon that this is also about the death

732
00:36:01,194 --> 00:36:04,794
Speaker 2: of the sports. Probably your parachute, no absolutely not, but

733
00:36:04,794 --> 00:36:08,194
Speaker 2: I've seen it on could website. I wonder if this

734
00:36:08,274 --> 00:36:10,314
Speaker 2: is also about the death of active weear right, because

735
00:36:10,394 --> 00:36:13,554
Speaker 2: I've started to feel very uncomfortable. If I go to

736
00:36:13,594 --> 00:36:15,674
Speaker 2: the gym and then I go and run my errands,

737
00:36:16,114 --> 00:36:18,114
Speaker 2: I'm feeling very out of place. I don't think we're

738
00:36:18,114 --> 00:36:21,314
Speaker 2: wearing our gym clothes to Westfield.

739
00:36:20,954 --> 00:36:23,754
Speaker 3: Anywhere, which we definitely were. Well, I wasn't. I only

740
00:36:23,834 --> 00:36:26,714
Speaker 3: wear leggings to exercise all around the house. But if

741
00:36:26,754 --> 00:36:28,634
Speaker 3: you were, yeah, I was all the time.

742
00:36:28,674 --> 00:36:30,554
Speaker 2: It was the uniform of mum.

743
00:36:30,714 --> 00:36:32,834
Speaker 4: I do think we've come full circle on that, because

744
00:36:32,914 --> 00:36:36,433
Speaker 4: remember when leggings first appeared on the scene, a lot

745
00:36:36,434 --> 00:36:37,354
Speaker 4: of people.

746
00:36:37,354 --> 00:36:39,274
Speaker 1: Maintained that they weren't pants.

747
00:36:39,314 --> 00:36:43,714
Speaker 4: In fact, won Mere Freedman had a really defiant point

748
00:36:43,714 --> 00:36:45,794
Speaker 4: of view that they were not pants. And then we

749
00:36:45,834 --> 00:36:47,994
Speaker 4: all decided that in fact they were pants, and in

750
00:36:48,034 --> 00:36:50,913
Speaker 4: fact they were the only pants. And now what I'm

751
00:36:50,954 --> 00:36:53,474
Speaker 4: hearing from gen Z in particular is this kind of

752
00:36:53,514 --> 00:36:56,554
Speaker 4: disingenuous line where they say leggings aren't comfortable and that's

753
00:36:56,594 --> 00:36:59,114
Speaker 4: why they're not wearing them, and I'm like, no, they're

754
00:36:59,154 --> 00:37:00,794
Speaker 4: not fashionable, that's why you're not worried.

755
00:37:01,074 --> 00:37:04,194
Speaker 2: No, Amelia, something's happened to my brain because suddenly they're

756
00:37:04,194 --> 00:37:05,954
Speaker 2: not comfortable, Suddenly they're itchy.

757
00:37:06,274 --> 00:37:09,433
Speaker 1: It's like this, you're going to wear your marino walls short.

758
00:37:09,674 --> 00:37:09,994
Speaker 4: I know.

759
00:37:10,194 --> 00:37:12,354
Speaker 2: It's like the culture has buried its way into my

760
00:37:12,394 --> 00:37:14,554
Speaker 2: brain and I've started to go, I'm itchy and I'm

761
00:37:14,594 --> 00:37:16,634
Speaker 2: going to get a yeast infection, like I haven't had

762
00:37:16,634 --> 00:37:19,434
Speaker 2: a wearing the case.

763
00:37:20,114 --> 00:37:22,993
Speaker 3: I have a slight conspiracy theory with the reason why

764
00:37:23,034 --> 00:37:25,393
Speaker 3: the top us bloke is telling us all to dress

765
00:37:25,474 --> 00:37:28,674
Speaker 3: up for planes. Okay, right, because he also said, he said,

766
00:37:28,674 --> 00:37:30,514
Speaker 3: the golden age of travel starts with you. But as

767
00:37:30,554 --> 00:37:32,634
Speaker 3: you said, that's the campaign, dress up to go to

768
00:37:32,634 --> 00:37:35,873
Speaker 3: the airport, help a stranger out, be in a good mood. Now,

769
00:37:35,914 --> 00:37:38,274
Speaker 3: that's the kind of thing you say when all your

770
00:37:38,314 --> 00:37:41,474
Speaker 3: air traffic controllers are quitting on that and the planes

771
00:37:41,474 --> 00:37:45,754
Speaker 3: are grounded, which is what I hear is happening in

772
00:37:45,754 --> 00:37:48,114
Speaker 3: the US. So it's like, it's not us, it's you

773
00:37:48,154 --> 00:37:49,674
Speaker 3: put yourself in a good mood. And it's true that

774
00:37:49,714 --> 00:37:51,794
Speaker 3: people don't make an effort anymore getting on planes.

775
00:37:51,834 --> 00:37:54,114
Speaker 2: I certainly do because the airlines aren't making enough.

776
00:37:54,074 --> 00:37:56,714
Speaker 3: That's true. Right, Like, now you're checking yourself in, you're

777
00:37:56,754 --> 00:37:59,274
Speaker 3: paying extra for your bags. The machines never work. It's

778
00:37:59,314 --> 00:38:01,714
Speaker 3: like no one's in a good mood getting on a plane.

779
00:38:02,114 --> 00:38:05,194
Speaker 3: And so that generation of my parents who would still

780
00:38:05,234 --> 00:38:06,873
Speaker 3: and still do put on a collar shirt and a

781
00:38:07,714 --> 00:38:09,393
Speaker 3: and some proper shoes to get on a plane because

782
00:38:09,434 --> 00:38:12,634
Speaker 3: it was an event. Now I kind of feel like

783
00:38:13,034 --> 00:38:17,514
Speaker 3: the intification of the travel experience is reflected in how

784
00:38:17,594 --> 00:38:19,874
Speaker 3: much effort we're putting into dress.

785
00:38:19,914 --> 00:38:24,474
Speaker 4: It's almost like you're saying that having air traffic controls

786
00:38:24,874 --> 00:38:28,554
Speaker 4: is important to air travel, maybe more more important than

787
00:38:28,594 --> 00:38:30,953
Speaker 4: whether Jesse has cameltoe or not.

788
00:38:31,274 --> 00:38:32,714
Speaker 1: I think that's ridiculous.

789
00:38:32,754 --> 00:38:34,834
Speaker 2: Seans are not going to make me feel better about

790
00:38:34,874 --> 00:38:37,473
Speaker 2: having my six am flight canceled and being sent home

791
00:38:37,554 --> 00:38:38,554
Speaker 2: and I'm still picked.

792
00:38:39,234 --> 00:38:41,034
Speaker 4: But I do have a question for the two of you,

793
00:38:41,074 --> 00:38:43,834
Speaker 4: which is, so can I not wear leggings anymore?

794
00:38:43,834 --> 00:38:43,913
Speaker 1: Like?

795
00:38:43,954 --> 00:38:46,194
Speaker 4: Are we back to the fact that they're not pants? Like,

796
00:38:46,314 --> 00:38:48,354
Speaker 4: is it somehow I'm scene to wear leggings?

797
00:38:48,794 --> 00:38:51,314
Speaker 3: You were showing off, Amilia. If you're wearing your leggings

798
00:38:51,314 --> 00:38:57,154
Speaker 3: out in public, you're flaunting your pins. Just double check

799
00:38:57,914 --> 00:39:00,514
Speaker 3: I am meant to be exercising now in back pants.

800
00:39:03,274 --> 00:39:05,034
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is ridiculous.

801
00:39:05,074 --> 00:39:07,433
Speaker 3: The cool like, how did as track is? I thought

802
00:39:07,474 --> 00:39:09,594
Speaker 3: they were going out? No, no, no, no no, they were

803
00:39:09,874 --> 00:39:10,634
Speaker 3: going to the gym.

804
00:39:10,794 --> 00:39:14,913
Speaker 2: Yes, and even like cotton tracks, don't get caught in stuff.

805
00:39:14,794 --> 00:39:16,754
Speaker 3: Get drag in the mamund when I go for a war.

806
00:39:16,994 --> 00:39:19,114
Speaker 2: This is what the fashion people are saying is hang

807
00:39:19,194 --> 00:39:22,554
Speaker 2: on like, I'm sorry, but you're not professional ballerinus. Okay,

808
00:39:22,634 --> 00:39:25,714
Speaker 2: you know what you can wear slightly baggy pants.

809
00:39:26,434 --> 00:39:28,913
Speaker 4: This reminds me of an article I read last week

810
00:39:28,954 --> 00:39:31,514
Speaker 4: by one plum Sike. Oh no, I'm sorry for the

811
00:39:31,554 --> 00:39:33,674
Speaker 4: pea popping just there, but it's a very hard name

812
00:39:33,714 --> 00:39:36,634
Speaker 4: to say without popping. I won't say her first name again.

813
00:39:36,754 --> 00:39:38,794
Speaker 4: Sykes is a British aristocrat.

814
00:39:38,874 --> 00:39:40,993
Speaker 3: She is in a fashion guru on a.

815
00:39:40,914 --> 00:39:44,114
Speaker 4: Fashion group and she wrote this fascinating piece on substack

816
00:39:44,234 --> 00:39:46,274
Speaker 4: about what to wear if you were invited to an

817
00:39:46,274 --> 00:39:48,754
Speaker 4: English country manner for the weekend happens.

818
00:39:49,234 --> 00:39:51,194
Speaker 1: I'm always batting off those invites.

819
00:39:51,914 --> 00:39:54,434
Speaker 4: And she had some really counterintuitive advice from the English

820
00:39:54,434 --> 00:39:57,234
Speaker 4: opera class for us, and she said that Americans always

821
00:39:57,234 --> 00:39:59,554
Speaker 4: show up in jeans, and she says that's a disaster,

822
00:40:00,034 --> 00:40:01,873
Speaker 4: because if you're going out in the fields on your

823
00:40:01,874 --> 00:40:04,834
Speaker 4: fox hunts or whatever in jeans, and jeans get wet

824
00:40:04,994 --> 00:40:07,554
Speaker 4: like wet denim is obviously a nightmare.

825
00:40:07,794 --> 00:40:10,794
Speaker 1: So Jennim is a Nogo. She said that the reason

826
00:40:10,834 --> 00:40:12,073
Speaker 1: why the Queen.

827
00:40:11,874 --> 00:40:15,354
Speaker 4: Always wore tweed skirt suits is because that's just tremendously

828
00:40:15,394 --> 00:40:18,714
Speaker 4: practical for the great outdoors because tweed dries really quickly.

829
00:40:18,754 --> 00:40:21,434
Speaker 4: It's kind of like weirdly water repellent, as I've discovered

830
00:40:21,434 --> 00:40:23,434
Speaker 4: in the past when I've worn tweed in rain.

831
00:40:23,714 --> 00:40:26,194
Speaker 3: And also worn tweet in rain.

832
00:40:26,394 --> 00:40:28,194
Speaker 4: I have a tweed coat that I bought at a

833
00:40:28,234 --> 00:40:32,154
Speaker 4: Brooklyn flea market for twenty dollars and it's amazing and

834
00:40:32,394 --> 00:40:35,314
Speaker 4: it really is great in rain. And also the skirt

835
00:40:35,394 --> 00:40:36,994
Speaker 4: is good because it doesn't drag on the ground.

836
00:40:37,194 --> 00:40:39,873
Speaker 1: So what I'm saying is maybe we should all be

837
00:40:39,914 --> 00:40:40,873
Speaker 1: wearing a tweed.

838
00:40:40,554 --> 00:40:42,674
Speaker 2: Stirt case to watch out it. Who do I wear

839
00:40:42,674 --> 00:40:43,634
Speaker 2: with my tweed skirt?

840
00:40:44,354 --> 00:40:49,554
Speaker 6: You, I'm gonna wear a tweet skirt with.

841
00:40:53,354 --> 00:40:56,714
Speaker 3: You with your leal.

842
00:40:57,034 --> 00:41:02,354
Speaker 1: Now check back with guys.

843
00:41:02,434 --> 00:41:05,354
Speaker 2: I need on the subject of fashion. I need a

844
00:41:05,434 --> 00:41:08,034
Speaker 2: quick round because, as we all know, Black Friday is

845
00:41:08,074 --> 00:41:10,554
Speaker 2: either approaching imminem, which just happened.

846
00:41:11,914 --> 00:41:15,674
Speaker 3: Living through it every time, it wasn't like whatever a

847
00:41:15,674 --> 00:41:18,114
Speaker 3: time I wanting to put my phone down, just like.

848
00:41:19,034 --> 00:41:21,554
Speaker 2: Well, I think that the world's telling me that I

849
00:41:21,594 --> 00:41:23,474
Speaker 2: need to buy something, and the thing that's on my

850
00:41:23,554 --> 00:41:26,594
Speaker 2: mind is I need a new back. So I've been

851
00:41:26,674 --> 00:41:29,234
Speaker 2: looking and I've been doing my secondhand thing. But I

852
00:41:29,234 --> 00:41:31,874
Speaker 2: did walk around the shops on the weekend to look

853
00:41:32,354 --> 00:41:34,553
Speaker 2: for a new bag, to see what kind of bag

854
00:41:34,594 --> 00:41:37,873
Speaker 2: I wanted. And this is because I have come to

855
00:41:37,914 --> 00:41:43,634
Speaker 2: the conclusion that tote bags are a patriarchal conspiracy. I

856
00:41:43,874 --> 00:41:47,154
Speaker 2: found myself in a car park on the weekend looking

857
00:41:47,194 --> 00:41:52,514
Speaker 2: for my car keys for the thousandth millionth time. Takes

858
00:41:52,554 --> 00:41:55,073
Speaker 2: me three four minutes every time to try and find

859
00:41:55,114 --> 00:41:57,314
Speaker 2: that and my phone and my blood.

860
00:41:57,434 --> 00:42:00,674
Speaker 1: Were you wearing leggings you No, I.

861
00:42:02,794 --> 00:42:07,514
Speaker 2: Was my fled leggings and I was searching through and

862
00:42:07,554 --> 00:42:11,714
Speaker 2: I went women. All the time we are spending sifting

863
00:42:12,034 --> 00:42:14,154
Speaker 2: through our what I'm going to refer to as a

864
00:42:14,194 --> 00:42:17,954
Speaker 2: bucket of shit that we carry around with us. Men

865
00:42:18,594 --> 00:42:21,634
Speaker 2: are making disagree they've gone by by by cell cell cell.

866
00:42:22,314 --> 00:42:25,434
Speaker 2: What when did we all agree that a tote bag

867
00:42:25,714 --> 00:42:26,914
Speaker 2: was a functional item.

868
00:42:27,034 --> 00:42:29,994
Speaker 4: Can I tell you that what men have is not better.

869
00:42:30,474 --> 00:42:33,554
Speaker 4: Their version of a tote bag is putting things in pockets,

870
00:42:33,594 --> 00:42:36,034
Speaker 4: and then they always fall out, and they always lose things,

871
00:42:36,074 --> 00:42:37,554
Speaker 4: and they never have the right things in.

872
00:42:37,474 --> 00:42:39,274
Speaker 3: Their pockets, and they have bulky lines.

873
00:42:39,314 --> 00:42:42,393
Speaker 4: We have a better option than they do. They got

874
00:42:42,394 --> 00:42:43,194
Speaker 4: bulky lines, and this is.

875
00:42:43,194 --> 00:42:45,194
Speaker 2: The biggest issue with you know what. That's why I

876
00:42:45,274 --> 00:42:48,754
Speaker 2: like my parachute pants is because it'll have a bloody pocket,

877
00:42:48,954 --> 00:42:52,714
Speaker 2: whereas all my other things I'm going I can't find anything.

878
00:42:52,794 --> 00:42:54,114
Speaker 1: You know what else has pockets?

879
00:42:54,114 --> 00:43:00,034
Speaker 3: A tweet skirt suit all ro to tweet skirts.

880
00:43:01,354 --> 00:43:03,434
Speaker 1: We never saw the queen and the tote bag.

881
00:43:03,754 --> 00:43:06,434
Speaker 3: Didn't she would ever need to carry keys.

882
00:43:06,314 --> 00:43:07,913
Speaker 1: Jesse, I wanted to. I want to throw another thing

883
00:43:07,954 --> 00:43:09,754
Speaker 1: at you, which is going to blow your mind. Cross

884
00:43:09,794 --> 00:43:13,033
Speaker 1: body bag. I'm sorry, you're not going to go back.

885
00:43:13,074 --> 00:43:15,074
Speaker 4: Once you go to cross body Bag, you do feel

886
00:43:15,074 --> 00:43:17,674
Speaker 4: like a mom, and it's because you are a mom, yes,

887
00:43:17,794 --> 00:43:19,154
Speaker 4: but it is very profist.

888
00:43:19,194 --> 00:43:21,834
Speaker 3: I think I read some headline that they're out as well, Amelia.

889
00:43:22,034 --> 00:43:24,514
Speaker 3: That's right, they're getting rid of that as well. No,

890
00:43:24,554 --> 00:43:25,794
Speaker 3: I'm cross body I can't.

891
00:43:25,834 --> 00:43:27,754
Speaker 2: I was looking around going Okay, I need to find

892
00:43:27,754 --> 00:43:29,794
Speaker 2: a bag with compartments? Is that so hard to find?

893
00:43:29,834 --> 00:43:31,914
Speaker 2: And it's like, would you like one that's the size

894
00:43:31,954 --> 00:43:36,154
Speaker 2: of a suitcase but with no compartments? No, this is

895
00:43:36,194 --> 00:43:39,434
Speaker 2: not something women ever asked for. I am just furious

896
00:43:39,434 --> 00:43:40,354
Speaker 2: at them. We all need to burn.

897
00:43:40,874 --> 00:43:43,234
Speaker 1: Bags are either really big now or really.

898
00:43:43,474 --> 00:43:46,354
Speaker 2: Really really tiny, and it's like, I need something functional.

899
00:43:46,474 --> 00:43:46,834
Speaker 2: I am not.

900
00:43:48,594 --> 00:43:50,953
Speaker 3: Before we go, we've got a new mom and Mere

901
00:43:50,994 --> 00:43:54,594
Speaker 3: podcast to tell you about called Pivot Club, where host

902
00:43:54,794 --> 00:43:58,594
Speaker 3: former lawyer and entrepreneur Sarah Davidson sits down with people

903
00:43:58,834 --> 00:44:02,033
Speaker 3: who spent years building their lives and then one day

904
00:44:02,474 --> 00:44:04,474
Speaker 3: have a professional plot twist.

905
00:44:04,554 --> 00:44:06,154
Speaker 2: This is one of my favorite.

906
00:44:05,954 --> 00:44:08,114
Speaker 3: Types of look.

907
00:44:11,554 --> 00:44:13,674
Speaker 2: Before we do, need to listen. I've heard some of

908
00:44:13,714 --> 00:44:16,154
Speaker 2: the guests that they've got coming up and they're perfect.

909
00:44:16,514 --> 00:44:19,474
Speaker 2: But in this week's episode the reason why out louders

910
00:44:19,474 --> 00:44:22,154
Speaker 2: will love this particularly in this week's episode, there is

911
00:44:22,554 --> 00:44:26,314
Speaker 2: Lies Ratliffe, who used to be the executive producer, the

912
00:44:26,354 --> 00:44:30,354
Speaker 2: head of podcasts at MMA MEA and then she she.

913
00:44:30,394 --> 00:44:32,074
Speaker 1: Was the original no Filter producer.

914
00:44:32,114 --> 00:44:36,074
Speaker 2: She was exactly top of her game, top of her industry,

915
00:44:36,314 --> 00:44:38,754
Speaker 2: and she has retrained. I'm not going to tell you

916
00:44:38,754 --> 00:44:40,393
Speaker 2: what she's retrained in. I'm not going to tell you

917
00:44:40,434 --> 00:44:44,034
Speaker 2: what the pivot was, but she has totally changed what

918
00:44:44,114 --> 00:44:46,754
Speaker 2: her day to day, what her next five ten years

919
00:44:46,794 --> 00:44:49,634
Speaker 2: are going to look like. It's really inspiring and I

920
00:44:50,474 --> 00:44:53,274
Speaker 2: just love hearing people talk about how at any stage,

921
00:44:53,394 --> 00:44:55,914
Speaker 2: at any age, you can just go, I'm going to

922
00:44:55,954 --> 00:44:57,034
Speaker 2: do something entirely different.

923
00:44:57,914 --> 00:44:59,994
Speaker 3: Friends, this has been fun, but we are done for

924
00:45:00,074 --> 00:45:02,754
Speaker 3: our Monday. We are going to be back in everybody's

925
00:45:02,754 --> 00:45:07,874
Speaker 3: ears tomorrow because we never sleep. She never sleeps.

926
00:45:08,314 --> 00:45:14,794
Speaker 2: Bye bye, Mamma.

927
00:45:14,874 --> 00:45:17,754
Speaker 3: Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which

928
00:45:17,794 --> 00:45:19,393
Speaker 3: we've recorded this podcast.