1
00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:13,374
Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

2
00:00:14,134 --> 00:00:17,214
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

3
00:00:17,254 --> 00:00:19,054
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

4
00:00:22,014 --> 00:00:22,214
Speaker 3: Hi.

5
00:00:22,374 --> 00:00:25,414
Speaker 2: I'm Claire Murphy. This is Mumma MIA's daily news podcast,

6
00:00:25,494 --> 00:00:28,934
Speaker 2: The Quickie. Have you heard the name Samantha as a party.

7
00:00:29,734 --> 00:00:33,094
Speaker 2: Maybe you remember her as GPO Girl, the mute fourteen

8
00:00:33,174 --> 00:00:36,734
Speaker 2: year old sex trafficking victim in Dublin or Aurora. Hepburn,

9
00:00:36,894 --> 00:00:40,134
Speaker 2: the sexual assault and kidnap victim in Canada, or maybe

10
00:00:40,174 --> 00:00:43,014
Speaker 2: Saka as a party who abducted a baby in Melbourne

11
00:00:43,014 --> 00:00:46,094
Speaker 2: after working for a family as arrow pair. All of

12
00:00:46,134 --> 00:00:49,934
Speaker 2: these people are the same woman, except this time she's

13
00:00:50,054 --> 00:00:53,894
Speaker 2: Hattie Lee, a pregnant Belgian teenager, the victim of sex

14
00:00:53,934 --> 00:00:57,734
Speaker 2: trafficking in Melbourne's southeast. In a moment, you'll hear mea

15
00:00:57,774 --> 00:01:01,614
Speaker 2: Friedman's No Filter interview with investigative journalist Sharon Davis, who

16
00:01:01,654 --> 00:01:04,654
Speaker 2: spent the past few years working on the successful podcast

17
00:01:04,734 --> 00:01:08,174
Speaker 2: Finding Samantha. But not long after this interview was recorded,

18
00:01:08,454 --> 00:01:12,374
Speaker 2: Samantha was released from jail and immediately was back to

19
00:01:12,414 --> 00:01:15,974
Speaker 2: her old tricks. Yes, the now thirty five year old

20
00:01:16,054 --> 00:01:20,294
Speaker 2: serial scam artist has been busted again. Despite her multiple

21
00:01:20,374 --> 00:01:24,614
Speaker 2: jail terms, deportations and long list of victims, Samantha as

22
00:01:24,614 --> 00:01:27,374
Speaker 2: a Party has been caught out in an elaborate fairy

23
00:01:27,414 --> 00:01:30,934
Speaker 2: tale of her own making. Just a few weeks after

24
00:01:30,974 --> 00:01:33,854
Speaker 2: she was discussed on No Filter, Samantha reached out to

25
00:01:33,894 --> 00:01:38,454
Speaker 2: Family Violent Support Services in Melbourne's southeastern Northern suburbs, claiming

26
00:01:38,494 --> 00:01:41,054
Speaker 2: to be a seventeen year old victim of domestic violence

27
00:01:41,294 --> 00:01:44,214
Speaker 2: at the hands of her abusive stepfather, Saying she was

28
00:01:44,214 --> 00:01:47,854
Speaker 2: from Belgium. She needed housing, transport and clothing, and the

29
00:01:47,934 --> 00:01:51,494
Speaker 2: services jumped in action to support her, handing her gift cards,

30
00:01:51,534 --> 00:01:55,014
Speaker 2: public transport cards, and other financial and physical support to

31
00:01:55,054 --> 00:01:59,294
Speaker 2: the tune of twenty thousand dollars. She faked a pregnancy test,

32
00:01:59,494 --> 00:02:02,214
Speaker 2: explaining to the workers in broken English that she was

33
00:02:02,254 --> 00:02:05,854
Speaker 2: also the victim of sex trafficking. This would turn out

34
00:02:05,854 --> 00:02:09,734
Speaker 2: to actually be the culmination of several other scams As

35
00:02:09,734 --> 00:02:11,574
Speaker 2: a Party had on the go at the same time,

36
00:02:12,014 --> 00:02:14,614
Speaker 2: because while she was faking her life as Hattie the

37
00:02:14,614 --> 00:02:18,494
Speaker 2: Belgian trafficking victim, she was also posing as eighteen year

38
00:02:18,494 --> 00:02:23,174
Speaker 2: old Norwegian backpacker Asta Hansen. It was as asked that

39
00:02:23,254 --> 00:02:26,734
Speaker 2: she convinced an unnamed Danish backpacker that she was working

40
00:02:26,774 --> 00:02:30,174
Speaker 2: for Hollywood Studio Village road Show, being paid to record

41
00:02:30,214 --> 00:02:33,774
Speaker 2: her travel diaries. She would use yet another alias to

42
00:02:33,814 --> 00:02:36,974
Speaker 2: pose as an employee from the company to convince the

43
00:02:37,014 --> 00:02:40,494
Speaker 2: backpacker to join her on the road. She made the

44
00:02:40,534 --> 00:02:43,134
Speaker 2: Danish woman sign a non disclosure form and as a

45
00:02:43,174 --> 00:02:46,414
Speaker 2: condition of her employment, she was required to pose as

46
00:02:46,534 --> 00:02:49,814
Speaker 2: a party's sister as they stayed in low budget accommodation

47
00:02:49,894 --> 00:02:53,854
Speaker 2: around the country. The low budget accommodation, though, turned out

48
00:02:53,934 --> 00:02:57,414
Speaker 2: to be women's refuges, but when the Danish backpacker raised

49
00:02:57,454 --> 00:03:00,654
Speaker 2: her concerns about this, she was contacted by the Village

50
00:03:00,694 --> 00:03:04,134
Speaker 2: road Show employee, who was actually as a party, telling

51
00:03:04,174 --> 00:03:06,934
Speaker 2: her she had to stay there to continue her employment.

52
00:03:08,134 --> 00:03:10,854
Speaker 2: While they traveled around Queenslane and the victim attempted to

53
00:03:10,854 --> 00:03:13,974
Speaker 2: get away from her employment contract and her fake sister,

54
00:03:14,694 --> 00:03:17,094
Speaker 2: but as a party told her that police were now

55
00:03:17,134 --> 00:03:19,894
Speaker 2: after them and they needed to travel to Melbourne, where

56
00:03:19,894 --> 00:03:22,814
Speaker 2: they would hide. It was then that she would realize

57
00:03:22,934 --> 00:03:27,774
Speaker 2: that her passport and phone had gone missing. In Melbourne,

58
00:03:27,854 --> 00:03:31,214
Speaker 2: as a party created another new identity and attempted to

59
00:03:31,294 --> 00:03:35,214
Speaker 2: change her appearance, this time Ocean Jones used a credit

60
00:03:35,254 --> 00:03:38,014
Speaker 2: card that she'd taken out in another woman's name to

61
00:03:38,094 --> 00:03:41,374
Speaker 2: have freckles tattooed on her face. It was here that

62
00:03:41,414 --> 00:03:44,614
Speaker 2: she would contact the Family Violent Support Services, telling them

63
00:03:44,614 --> 00:03:47,174
Speaker 2: she and her sister were being abused, so they put

64
00:03:47,214 --> 00:03:51,374
Speaker 2: them up in emergency housing. The teams of domestic violent staff,

65
00:03:51,414 --> 00:03:54,654
Speaker 2: who are already working tirelessly to protect women who are

66
00:03:54,734 --> 00:03:57,894
Speaker 2: actually victims of family violence, then got a phone call

67
00:03:57,934 --> 00:04:01,014
Speaker 2: from police. They believed that the girl in their care

68
00:04:01,494 --> 00:04:06,494
Speaker 2: was serial con artist Samantha as a Party. In court

69
00:04:06,534 --> 00:04:10,894
Speaker 2: just last week, Magistrate Louisa Designy couldn't believe the extraordinary

70
00:04:10,934 --> 00:04:13,214
Speaker 2: lengths that as a Party had gone to to deceive

71
00:04:13,254 --> 00:04:15,494
Speaker 2: the people around her, saying this, she.

72
00:04:15,614 --> 00:04:21,374
Speaker 1: Is organized, cunning and a repetitive offender, so how do

73
00:04:21,454 --> 00:04:23,054
Speaker 1: we get here? Next?

74
00:04:23,174 --> 00:04:26,694
Speaker 2: Mia sits down with investigative journalist Sharon Davis to unravel

75
00:04:26,694 --> 00:04:30,174
Speaker 2: the life and deceptions of Australia's serial con woman.

76
00:04:32,534 --> 00:04:34,854
Speaker 1: So she won't seek help, she doesn't want to get better.

77
00:04:35,734 --> 00:04:41,294
Speaker 3: Yeah, then the question arises, what do you do with

78
00:04:41,334 --> 00:04:42,414
Speaker 3: someone like Samantha?

79
00:04:45,214 --> 00:04:48,054
Speaker 1: When you hear the words scammer, you probably think of

80
00:04:48,094 --> 00:04:51,014
Speaker 1: one of those bloody, annoying text messages that you get

81
00:04:51,254 --> 00:04:53,214
Speaker 1: the ones that try and trick you into clicking on

82
00:04:53,254 --> 00:04:56,574
Speaker 1: a link and handing over you bank details, or maybe

83
00:04:56,614 --> 00:04:59,534
Speaker 1: you think of catfishing, where people pretend to be someone

84
00:04:59,534 --> 00:05:02,454
Speaker 1: else online to trick someone into falling in love with

85
00:05:02,494 --> 00:05:06,054
Speaker 1: them and sending them money. But the common denominator is

86
00:05:06,134 --> 00:05:09,534
Speaker 1: money though, right, that's our understanding of what a scammer wants.

87
00:05:10,574 --> 00:05:13,054
Speaker 1: But what you're about to hear is the story of

88
00:05:13,094 --> 00:05:16,654
Speaker 1: a woman called Samantha as a Party and Dakota Johnson

89
00:05:17,214 --> 00:05:20,854
Speaker 1: and Harper Heart and Aurora Hepburn and Emily as a

90
00:05:20,894 --> 00:05:23,934
Speaker 1: Party and dozens of other names that she made up,

91
00:05:24,174 --> 00:05:29,094
Speaker 1: along with forged documents to trip people into into caring

92
00:05:29,134 --> 00:05:32,694
Speaker 1: for her, worrying about her, giving her attention.

93
00:05:33,134 --> 00:05:34,854
Speaker 3: One of the first things she said to me when

94
00:05:34,854 --> 00:05:38,654
Speaker 3: we spoke was, Oh, I'm so relieved you're a real person.

95
00:05:38,854 --> 00:05:41,734
Speaker 4: I thought maybe you were a fraudster because there are

96
00:05:41,734 --> 00:05:45,494
Speaker 4: so many fraudsters on these Facebook groups like you do not.

97
00:05:46,374 --> 00:05:50,734
Speaker 1: Samantha is one of Australia's most prolific and determined scammers,

98
00:05:51,334 --> 00:05:55,214
Speaker 1: but it's not money that she seems to want. And

99
00:05:55,214 --> 00:05:59,494
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that her twisted stories and extraordinarily elaborate

100
00:05:59,494 --> 00:06:04,294
Speaker 1: schemes haven't devastated her victims. They have, and they include

101
00:06:04,334 --> 00:06:10,094
Speaker 1: famous athletes, young couples, vulnerable teenagers, and even young children.

102
00:06:11,334 --> 00:06:15,694
Speaker 1: One of the scams Samantha returns to most regularly is

103
00:06:15,734 --> 00:06:19,814
Speaker 1: passing herself off as a schoolgirl, even enrolling in schools

104
00:06:19,894 --> 00:06:23,654
Speaker 1: again and again, despite being in her twenties and then

105
00:06:23,694 --> 00:06:24,494
Speaker 1: in her thirties.

106
00:06:25,214 --> 00:06:27,494
Speaker 5: In her role, she looks about fourteen or fifteen.

107
00:06:27,894 --> 00:06:31,334
Speaker 1: She just looks coals and frail. She seems like a

108
00:06:31,334 --> 00:06:36,174
Speaker 1: traumatized young person to me. Samantha has been charged more

109
00:06:36,214 --> 00:06:39,614
Speaker 1: than one hundred times in Australia and has been jailed

110
00:06:39,654 --> 00:06:42,494
Speaker 1: for several of her crimes, which have occurred all over

111
00:06:42,534 --> 00:06:45,694
Speaker 1: the world. But she just can't stop.

112
00:06:46,014 --> 00:06:48,534
Speaker 6: Why would she do this? What is she hoping to

113
00:06:48,694 --> 00:06:49,734
Speaker 6: gain from this?

114
00:06:50,214 --> 00:06:50,454
Speaker 7: Now?

115
00:06:50,494 --> 00:06:52,614
Speaker 1: I just think she's a great con woman.

116
00:06:53,214 --> 00:06:54,934
Speaker 6: She's really good at what she does.

117
00:07:04,574 --> 00:07:05,294
Speaker 3: For Mamma Maya.

118
00:07:05,374 --> 00:07:09,334
Speaker 1: I'm mea Friedman. You're listening to no Filter. Sharon Davis

119
00:07:09,654 --> 00:07:12,214
Speaker 1: is my guest today and as a Walkley Award winning

120
00:07:12,254 --> 00:07:15,854
Speaker 1: investigative journalist, she spent the past couple of years working

121
00:07:15,934 --> 00:07:20,414
Speaker 1: on a podcast about Samantha as a party called Finding Samantha.

122
00:07:21,094 --> 00:07:22,054
Speaker 1: So did she find her?

123
00:07:22,774 --> 00:07:22,894
Speaker 8: Oh?

124
00:07:22,974 --> 00:07:25,934
Speaker 1: Yeah, she did, And that's when things got even weirder.

125
00:07:26,854 --> 00:07:30,134
Speaker 1: This isn't just a fascinating story. It's also about the

126
00:07:30,174 --> 00:07:36,414
Speaker 1: power of one small, unassuming woman to successfully trick hundreds

127
00:07:36,494 --> 00:07:40,454
Speaker 1: of really smart people again and again for almost twenty

128
00:07:40,534 --> 00:07:49,454
Speaker 1: years and counting. Here's Sharon Davis. Sharon, this story doesn't

129
00:07:49,494 --> 00:07:53,974
Speaker 1: start in Dublin, but I would like to start with

130
00:07:54,494 --> 00:07:57,334
Speaker 1: the General post Office and a little girl that was

131
00:07:57,454 --> 00:08:01,534
Speaker 1: found wandering in the street in October of twenty thirteen.

132
00:08:01,854 --> 00:08:04,494
Speaker 1: This week, there were reports that a teenage girl was

133
00:08:04,494 --> 00:08:07,974
Speaker 1: found wandering in a dazed state on O'Connor Street in Dublin.

134
00:08:08,374 --> 00:08:09,654
Speaker 1: What happened on that day.

135
00:08:10,494 --> 00:08:13,214
Speaker 3: Well, on that day, as you say, there was this

136
00:08:13,294 --> 00:08:17,974
Speaker 3: little girl looking sort of waiflike and disheveled outside the

137
00:08:18,054 --> 00:08:22,174
Speaker 3: Dublin post Office and she looked kind of lost and

138
00:08:22,334 --> 00:08:27,134
Speaker 3: forlorn and alone, and a police officer in the street

139
00:08:27,654 --> 00:08:32,454
Speaker 3: saw her and became concerned about her welfare. Now, this

140
00:08:32,654 --> 00:08:37,134
Speaker 3: is against a backdrop in Europe and in the UK

141
00:08:37,374 --> 00:08:40,854
Speaker 3: and Ireland where there was quite a lot of sex

142
00:08:40,894 --> 00:08:43,894
Speaker 3: trafficking teenage girls going on at that time. I mean

143
00:08:43,934 --> 00:08:47,774
Speaker 3: there still is, but that was when people were starting

144
00:08:47,814 --> 00:08:50,814
Speaker 3: to become aware of it, and authorities were certainly starting

145
00:08:50,854 --> 00:08:55,094
Speaker 3: to become aware of it. And so the police officer

146
00:08:55,294 --> 00:09:00,534
Speaker 3: approached her and couldn't really get any answers out of

147
00:09:00,574 --> 00:09:02,974
Speaker 3: her about why she was there. In fact, she didn't speak.

148
00:09:03,374 --> 00:09:08,254
Speaker 3: She wouldn't expect They didn't know whether she understood English.

149
00:09:08,294 --> 00:09:13,734
Speaker 4: Even she appeared pleasant, didn't communicate, didn't want to speak,

150
00:09:14,134 --> 00:09:15,054
Speaker 4: no way contact.

151
00:09:15,534 --> 00:09:18,814
Speaker 3: She kept her hair down over her face. So the

152
00:09:18,894 --> 00:09:24,414
Speaker 3: police were concerned, and they contacted the station. The station said, well,

153
00:09:24,414 --> 00:09:27,574
Speaker 3: we can't just leave her there. She may be in

154
00:09:27,854 --> 00:09:28,774
Speaker 3: desperate trouble.

155
00:09:28,934 --> 00:09:30,734
Speaker 1: Did she seem distressed.

156
00:09:30,654 --> 00:09:36,334
Speaker 3: Yes, she seemed very distressed. So they contacted child welfare authorities,

157
00:09:36,374 --> 00:09:40,494
Speaker 3: who suggested that for her own safety, that she needed

158
00:09:40,534 --> 00:09:43,094
Speaker 3: to be hospitalized while she was checked out as to

159
00:09:43,774 --> 00:09:47,974
Speaker 3: what a health situation was, and while they also tried

160
00:09:48,014 --> 00:09:50,814
Speaker 3: to ascertain who she was because she wasn't speaking.

161
00:09:52,054 --> 00:09:57,014
Speaker 1: When she was admitted to hospital, she continued to not speak,

162
00:09:57,054 --> 00:09:59,134
Speaker 1: but she drew some pictures. What did she draw?

163
00:09:59,974 --> 00:10:04,534
Speaker 3: She was drawing planes, she was drawing stick figures, she

164
00:10:04,694 --> 00:10:07,414
Speaker 3: was drawing I think at one point she drew a gun.

165
00:10:08,094 --> 00:10:12,534
Speaker 3: They were all things that made the authorities concerned that

166
00:10:12,694 --> 00:10:15,654
Speaker 3: what she was saying was that she had been sex trafficked.

167
00:10:16,294 --> 00:10:21,054
Speaker 3: They were also concerned as to why she wasn't speaking,

168
00:10:21,334 --> 00:10:26,694
Speaker 3: about whether she was so traumatized that she couldn't talk

169
00:10:26,734 --> 00:10:29,934
Speaker 3: at all, or whether this was a language issue. I mean,

170
00:10:30,014 --> 00:10:33,894
Speaker 3: this was a real conundrum in front of them. They

171
00:10:33,934 --> 00:10:37,854
Speaker 3: had this young girl who they believed was about thirteen

172
00:10:37,934 --> 00:10:42,134
Speaker 3: or fourteen, not speaking, lying in a hospital bed, very thin,

173
00:10:42,974 --> 00:10:47,854
Speaker 3: who showed lots of signs of trauma and distress, and

174
00:10:47,934 --> 00:10:55,294
Speaker 3: so they were calling in different psychiatrists, psychologists, doctors, health workers,

175
00:10:55,454 --> 00:10:59,334
Speaker 3: child welfare workers to try and figure out what this

176
00:10:59,454 --> 00:11:02,094
Speaker 3: story was about and who this young woman was.

177
00:11:03,094 --> 00:11:05,574
Speaker 4: On Thursday, the tenth of October, at approx. Be Four

178
00:11:05,694 --> 00:11:09,974
Speaker 4: fifteen pm, members of Angarded Chicana discovered a young female

179
00:11:10,254 --> 00:11:13,174
Speaker 4: on o Conman Street in a distress stage. She is

180
00:11:13,214 --> 00:11:16,774
Speaker 4: described as being favor sex and heist, slim bill and

181
00:11:16,934 --> 00:11:20,334
Speaker 4: having a long blonde hair. Do you recognize this girl?

182
00:11:21,014 --> 00:11:24,774
Speaker 1: How long until they decided to go public because I

183
00:11:24,614 --> 00:11:29,134
Speaker 1: imagine revealing a photograph of her to the world to

184
00:11:29,174 --> 00:11:31,814
Speaker 1: try and find out who she is was a big decision.

185
00:11:32,454 --> 00:11:35,014
Speaker 3: That was a huge decision, and it was a decision

186
00:11:35,054 --> 00:11:38,214
Speaker 3: that actually required because they believed she was a minor,

187
00:11:38,694 --> 00:11:42,374
Speaker 3: it required the court to be involved, so they actually

188
00:11:42,454 --> 00:11:45,774
Speaker 3: had to go to the court to get permission to

189
00:11:45,854 --> 00:11:49,454
Speaker 3: publish her photo. And that was many, many weeks after

190
00:11:49,494 --> 00:11:52,334
Speaker 3: she was first found in the street in Dublin, so

191
00:11:52,374 --> 00:11:55,054
Speaker 3: she was in hospital for at least for weeks or

192
00:11:55,094 --> 00:11:59,934
Speaker 3: more while this discussion went on about how they would

193
00:11:59,934 --> 00:12:03,494
Speaker 3: approach this and how they might in the end find

194
00:12:03,534 --> 00:12:08,134
Speaker 3: out who she was, and essentially why they wanted that

195
00:12:08,214 --> 00:12:11,854
Speaker 3: photo was to try and to other police agencies around

196
00:12:11,894 --> 00:12:15,934
Speaker 3: the world really to see if anyone could identify her

197
00:12:16,494 --> 00:12:19,934
Speaker 3: before they went public. They didn't go public straight away

198
00:12:19,974 --> 00:12:23,374
Speaker 3: with the photo. Even they did circulate it amongst police

199
00:12:23,854 --> 00:12:26,374
Speaker 3: first of all around the world through Interpol.

200
00:12:26,614 --> 00:12:28,854
Speaker 1: And they had no luck. Inter poll knew nothing.

201
00:12:29,414 --> 00:12:34,254
Speaker 3: Well, interestingly enough, they had no luck. But then what

202
00:12:34,494 --> 00:12:39,014
Speaker 3: happened was they then circulated it publicly. This was all

203
00:12:39,054 --> 00:12:41,574
Speaker 3: in a matter of a couple of days. But at

204
00:12:41,574 --> 00:12:45,814
Speaker 3: the same time as they got a lead on this

205
00:12:45,894 --> 00:12:50,054
Speaker 3: young woman from Ireland, there was also a police officer

206
00:12:50,254 --> 00:12:54,854
Speaker 3: in Western Australia that contacted them and said I think

207
00:12:54,894 --> 00:12:57,654
Speaker 3: I know who this girl is. So they had kind

208
00:12:57,654 --> 00:13:02,014
Speaker 3: of two sources for their information. One was a man

209
00:13:02,174 --> 00:13:07,414
Speaker 3: who lived in Ireland who had been a stepfather for

210
00:13:07,454 --> 00:13:09,974
Speaker 3: a while and the mother and he had said operated

211
00:13:10,054 --> 00:13:12,254
Speaker 3: and he had gone back to Ireland because he was

212
00:13:12,694 --> 00:13:16,814
Speaker 3: Irish by origin, but he lived with the family in Australia,

213
00:13:17,534 --> 00:13:20,734
Speaker 3: and so he contacted the police and said, I know

214
00:13:20,814 --> 00:13:24,494
Speaker 3: who this girl is. That's the daughter of my previous partner.

215
00:13:25,134 --> 00:13:28,014
Speaker 3: And at the same time they had this Western Australian

216
00:13:28,054 --> 00:13:31,534
Speaker 3: police officer contacting them saying I think I know who

217
00:13:31,614 --> 00:13:32,334
Speaker 3: this girl is.

218
00:13:33,454 --> 00:13:39,454
Speaker 1: Because what they told the authorities in Dublin who were

219
00:13:39,454 --> 00:13:41,534
Speaker 1: trying to find out who this little girl was, is

220
00:13:41,574 --> 00:13:43,094
Speaker 1: that she wasn't a little girl. She was a twenty

221
00:13:43,134 --> 00:13:44,854
Speaker 1: five year old woman called Samanth There as a.

222
00:13:44,814 --> 00:13:48,374
Speaker 9: Party, Ireland's mystery girl who was feared was the victim

223
00:13:48,414 --> 00:13:50,294
Speaker 9: of sex trafficking and it turned out to be an

224
00:13:50,294 --> 00:13:53,694
Speaker 9: Australian woman who's known to police and who is now

225
00:13:53,854 --> 00:13:54,854
Speaker 9: on her way home.

226
00:13:55,014 --> 00:13:58,014
Speaker 6: Samantha as a Party was in fact a fraudster and

227
00:13:58,054 --> 00:14:00,854
Speaker 6: had confections for fraud and Australia and this was her

228
00:14:00,854 --> 00:14:03,374
Speaker 6: part of her mortus operande, and that fraud was something

229
00:14:03,414 --> 00:14:04,774
Speaker 6: that she specialized in.

230
00:14:05,654 --> 00:14:09,694
Speaker 3: That's right. She wasn't thirteen or fourteen years old, and

231
00:14:09,774 --> 00:14:14,454
Speaker 3: she wasn't a human sex trafficked victim. She was, in

232
00:14:14,494 --> 00:14:18,054
Speaker 3: fact a young as you say, twenty five year old,

233
00:14:18,134 --> 00:14:22,014
Speaker 3: not so young, but certainly a young woman from Campbelltown

234
00:14:22,374 --> 00:14:23,974
Speaker 3: in Sydney.

235
00:14:24,094 --> 00:14:26,374
Speaker 1: How did you get involved at this point?

236
00:14:27,134 --> 00:14:30,374
Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting because you know, I've been making radio

237
00:14:30,414 --> 00:14:33,774
Speaker 3: programs and podcasts for a while, and I have to

238
00:14:33,854 --> 00:14:38,334
Speaker 3: admit me that I've always been fascinated by scammers, like

239
00:14:38,534 --> 00:14:41,334
Speaker 3: a lot of us are. A few years ago, I

240
00:14:41,334 --> 00:14:45,174
Speaker 3: actually wanted to make a series, a general podcast series

241
00:14:45,334 --> 00:14:49,094
Speaker 3: about scamming and the psychology behind it and why people

242
00:14:49,134 --> 00:14:53,854
Speaker 3: do it. And so I was collecting stories and this

243
00:14:53,974 --> 00:14:57,934
Speaker 3: story emerged of this young woman just down the road

244
00:14:58,054 --> 00:15:02,494
Speaker 3: from my Sydney in a city suburb who'd gone to

245
00:15:02,534 --> 00:15:08,974
Speaker 3: school pretending to be a traumatized young fourteen fifteen year

246
00:15:08,974 --> 00:15:13,054
Speaker 3: old and she had been caught. But she'd been going

247
00:15:13,094 --> 00:15:14,774
Speaker 3: to that school for a while and it was a

248
00:15:14,814 --> 00:15:17,614
Speaker 3: school for troubled and disadvantaged kids.

249
00:15:17,894 --> 00:15:19,494
Speaker 1: How long had she been going to school?

250
00:15:20,054 --> 00:15:21,934
Speaker 3: Oh, she'd been there for more than a year.

251
00:15:22,654 --> 00:15:25,214
Speaker 1: Just going to school, taking.

252
00:15:24,894 --> 00:15:29,934
Speaker 3: Classes, taking classes, hanging around with other kids, pretending she

253
00:15:30,014 --> 00:15:33,414
Speaker 3: was a literate so she was getting special attention from

254
00:15:33,734 --> 00:15:37,774
Speaker 3: social workers and literature teachers. She'd been found by a

255
00:15:37,854 --> 00:15:41,934
Speaker 3: couple in the street in Auburn, outside of Sydney's western suburbs.

256
00:15:42,454 --> 00:15:46,654
Speaker 3: They had taken her in and had decided that she

257
00:15:46,814 --> 00:15:51,494
Speaker 3: needed their help, and they thought she was a young girl.

258
00:15:51,934 --> 00:15:54,454
Speaker 3: And she told them she was on a US Witness

259
00:15:54,494 --> 00:15:59,734
Speaker 3: protection program and that she was hiding from a situation

260
00:15:59,854 --> 00:16:03,814
Speaker 3: where she'd been sexually abused, and they believed her, and

261
00:16:03,894 --> 00:16:06,654
Speaker 3: they put her into this school in Marrickville, the School

262
00:16:06,694 --> 00:16:10,334
Speaker 3: of Good Shepherd in Merrickville, the disadvantage kids who had

263
00:16:10,534 --> 00:16:14,854
Speaker 3: education issues, and she was there for a really long time.

264
00:16:15,334 --> 00:16:17,814
Speaker 3: But during the time she was there, what happened was

265
00:16:17,814 --> 00:16:21,534
Speaker 3: the school needed to work out her identity. They needed

266
00:16:21,574 --> 00:16:25,694
Speaker 3: some sort of bona fides. They asked for birth certificates,

267
00:16:26,134 --> 00:16:30,574
Speaker 3: and a birth certificate wasn't forthcoming, and they also asked

268
00:16:30,654 --> 00:16:34,494
Speaker 3: for medical records because she disappeared from school for a

269
00:16:34,534 --> 00:16:37,094
Speaker 3: couple of months and they didn't know where she was.

270
00:16:37,294 --> 00:16:39,414
Speaker 1: Was she still living with his family with a couple.

271
00:16:39,974 --> 00:16:43,094
Speaker 3: She was living with his family. Her story was, you know,

272
00:16:43,174 --> 00:16:45,534
Speaker 3: and the family story was that she hadn't been well

273
00:16:45,614 --> 00:16:49,134
Speaker 3: and hadn't been able to attend school, and then they

274
00:16:49,174 --> 00:16:53,534
Speaker 3: get a birth certificate and you know, it later emerges

275
00:16:53,774 --> 00:16:57,534
Speaker 3: that their certificate is fake, but it shows her as

276
00:16:57,574 --> 00:17:04,134
Speaker 3: a US citizen called Harper Heart, and the school starts

277
00:17:04,174 --> 00:17:06,374
Speaker 3: to kind of look at a little bit further because

278
00:17:06,614 --> 00:17:09,814
Speaker 3: they're really worried that there's something that isn't quite right

279
00:17:09,974 --> 00:17:12,414
Speaker 3: about this. But this is all going on over a

280
00:17:12,494 --> 00:17:15,494
Speaker 3: process of months, you know, months and months and months,

281
00:17:15,654 --> 00:17:18,734
Speaker 3: and in the meantime, you know, Samantha is getting these

282
00:17:19,654 --> 00:17:22,934
Speaker 3: resources and a lot of attention from some of the

283
00:17:22,974 --> 00:17:23,814
Speaker 3: school teachers.

284
00:17:24,014 --> 00:17:25,454
Speaker 1: How old was she at this time?

285
00:17:26,014 --> 00:17:29,374
Speaker 3: This was only a few years ago. This was twenty

286
00:17:29,494 --> 00:17:34,094
Speaker 3: and seventeen, so she was at the time about twenty seven.

287
00:17:34,934 --> 00:17:35,454
Speaker 1: Wow.

288
00:17:36,254 --> 00:17:41,014
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's good. She's really good at doing this stuff.

289
00:17:41,054 --> 00:17:43,094
Speaker 3: She was drawing freckles on her face at that time.

290
00:17:43,134 --> 00:17:46,654
Speaker 3: According to the police officer who you know, eventually did

291
00:17:46,654 --> 00:17:51,294
Speaker 3: the investigation into her at the school, detected Baron Power

292
00:17:51,294 --> 00:17:52,614
Speaker 3: from Birwood Police Station.

293
00:17:53,774 --> 00:17:57,534
Speaker 5: When we arrested her, we noticed the freckles she had

294
00:17:57,574 --> 00:17:59,334
Speaker 5: on her face, making it look like a little thirteen

295
00:17:59,374 --> 00:18:01,334
Speaker 5: year old girl, were actually fake. They're actually drawn on

296
00:18:01,414 --> 00:18:02,374
Speaker 5: by her they'll makeup.

297
00:18:03,734 --> 00:18:07,534
Speaker 3: What was her response when she was arrested.

298
00:18:07,814 --> 00:18:09,894
Speaker 5: She knew who we were, was like she could smell police.

299
00:18:10,494 --> 00:18:14,734
Speaker 5: She was very cool and calculated. She seemed very disciplined.

300
00:18:15,174 --> 00:18:18,214
Speaker 5: She had no emotional response. I wouldn't cooperate with police,

301
00:18:18,254 --> 00:18:22,294
Speaker 5: wouldn't answer any questions, and maintained her right to silence.

302
00:18:23,134 --> 00:18:27,974
Speaker 3: He was quite taken by how good she was at

303
00:18:28,054 --> 00:18:30,494
Speaker 3: changing her identity. He called her a chameleon.

304
00:18:31,254 --> 00:18:34,094
Speaker 1: When was the first time that she came to the

305
00:18:34,134 --> 00:18:35,374
Speaker 1: attention of authorities?

306
00:18:36,414 --> 00:18:41,894
Speaker 3: Okay, So in two thousand and seven she appeared in Rockhampton.

307
00:18:42,494 --> 00:18:44,374
Speaker 3: As far as I know, that was the first time

308
00:18:44,454 --> 00:18:48,654
Speaker 3: she attracted police attention. At that time. Her name, she said,

309
00:18:49,254 --> 00:18:53,614
Speaker 3: was Lindsay Lana, John Bennett, Coplan. It's interesting that her

310
00:18:53,694 --> 00:18:57,654
Speaker 3: names often had some relationship with other movie stars or

311
00:18:58,054 --> 00:19:01,254
Speaker 3: people of some notoriety, and at that time, I think

312
00:19:01,294 --> 00:19:04,054
Speaker 3: that John Bennett case in the United States was really

313
00:19:04,494 --> 00:19:08,374
Speaker 3: known and popular. So she turns up in Rockhampton and

314
00:19:08,494 --> 00:19:12,774
Speaker 3: she's charged with the of minor offenses, and those offenses

315
00:19:12,854 --> 00:19:17,494
Speaker 3: were intentioned to defraud. She was using fake medicare cards,

316
00:19:18,014 --> 00:19:21,214
Speaker 3: so she'd obviously got them somewhere, and she'd also been

317
00:19:21,254 --> 00:19:23,934
Speaker 3: picked up for shoplifting and a thing. But then she

318
00:19:24,134 --> 00:19:27,654
Speaker 3: kind of flies under the radar for another couple of years,

319
00:19:27,774 --> 00:19:30,374
Speaker 3: And to be quite honest, I think there's other stories

320
00:19:30,414 --> 00:19:34,494
Speaker 3: about Samantha out there that still haven't come to the surface.

321
00:19:35,014 --> 00:19:37,014
Speaker 3: So she flies under the radar for a couple of

322
00:19:37,094 --> 00:19:41,454
Speaker 3: years and then re emerges again in about twenty ten

323
00:19:41,574 --> 00:19:47,254
Speaker 3: in Brisbane and then she is Dakota Johnson. She wants

324
00:19:47,294 --> 00:19:51,734
Speaker 3: to enroll in a school in Brisbane. Again. She gives

325
00:19:51,734 --> 00:19:57,934
Speaker 3: a story about her uncle who has been sexually abusing

326
00:19:58,014 --> 00:20:00,974
Speaker 3: her and that she's run away. She was trapped on

327
00:20:01,014 --> 00:20:07,294
Speaker 3: an island with her uncle. And she basically turns up

328
00:20:07,334 --> 00:20:10,814
Speaker 3: at this school and wants to enroll, and the welfare

329
00:20:10,854 --> 00:20:15,454
Speaker 3: authorities again become involved. They become very concerned about her.

330
00:20:15,894 --> 00:20:19,574
Speaker 3: They enleissed a number of social workers to help her.

331
00:20:20,094 --> 00:20:22,694
Speaker 3: The social workers, of course, have to involve the police.

332
00:20:22,934 --> 00:20:26,134
Speaker 3: You have to notify police when you've got a child

333
00:20:26,174 --> 00:20:28,494
Speaker 3: whom you expect is in danger in the same way

334
00:20:28,534 --> 00:20:31,934
Speaker 3: that that had to happen in Dublin, so they contact

335
00:20:31,934 --> 00:20:37,814
Speaker 3: the police. There is an investigation that started. It's found

336
00:20:37,814 --> 00:20:40,854
Speaker 3: that she's not who she says she is, but again

337
00:20:40,934 --> 00:20:45,054
Speaker 3: it takes about a month. It involves child protection authorities,

338
00:20:45,134 --> 00:20:49,974
Speaker 3: it involves the police, it involves social workers, and she's

339
00:20:50,054 --> 00:20:54,934
Speaker 3: charged with falsely representing herself with intention to defraud. She's

340
00:20:55,134 --> 00:20:58,374
Speaker 3: again charged with a whole range of documents, having a

341
00:20:58,374 --> 00:21:02,654
Speaker 3: whole range of other people's documents in her possession. You know,

342
00:21:02,734 --> 00:21:06,294
Speaker 3: when she's picked up by the police, she refuses to

343
00:21:06,334 --> 00:21:09,974
Speaker 3: give her name, her day to birth, so again have

344
00:21:10,054 --> 00:21:12,294
Speaker 3: to go into quite a lot of investigation and find

345
00:21:12,294 --> 00:21:14,814
Speaker 3: out who she really is. So she was charged with

346
00:21:14,894 --> 00:21:18,294
Speaker 3: that as well, but she got a sort of a

347
00:21:18,334 --> 00:21:20,054
Speaker 3: wrap over the uncle's and a fine.

348
00:21:21,054 --> 00:21:21,414
Speaker 10: Sharon.

349
00:21:21,534 --> 00:21:25,814
Speaker 1: Usually, when you think about fraud, you think about or scammers,

350
00:21:25,814 --> 00:21:27,614
Speaker 1: you think about someone trying to get money.

351
00:21:27,854 --> 00:21:28,614
Speaker 10: Yep, right.

352
00:21:28,814 --> 00:21:31,654
Speaker 1: And what's fascinating to me about this story and about

353
00:21:31,694 --> 00:21:34,134
Speaker 1: Samantha is that most people spend their lives trying to

354
00:21:34,134 --> 00:21:35,134
Speaker 1: get away from school.

355
00:21:35,614 --> 00:21:36,014
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.

356
00:21:36,494 --> 00:21:39,574
Speaker 1: And she seems to spend her life trying to go

357
00:21:39,694 --> 00:21:40,534
Speaker 1: back to school.

358
00:21:40,734 --> 00:21:44,614
Speaker 6: Yes, this was a woman that was ten years older

359
00:21:44,614 --> 00:21:47,254
Speaker 6: than the person she was portraying to be going back

360
00:21:47,334 --> 00:21:49,934
Speaker 6: wanting to go back to school. Most kids, you can't

361
00:21:49,934 --> 00:21:51,614
Speaker 6: get them to go to school, let alone go back.

362
00:21:51,454 --> 00:21:55,214
Speaker 1: Twice and this is something that keeps happening throughout her life,

363
00:21:55,254 --> 00:21:55,974
Speaker 1: doesn't it?

364
00:21:55,974 --> 00:21:59,934
Speaker 3: It does, And I think it may have a relationship

365
00:21:59,934 --> 00:22:04,894
Speaker 3: with a childhood. I think she had interrupted schooling when

366
00:22:04,894 --> 00:22:08,654
Speaker 3: she was a child. I think school was particularly difficult

367
00:22:08,694 --> 00:22:12,214
Speaker 3: for her. I think that she may have had some

368
00:22:12,414 --> 00:22:16,174
Speaker 3: learning difficulties. She was certainly at one point in a

369
00:22:16,214 --> 00:22:19,134
Speaker 3: section of the school which was for learning difficulties. When

370
00:22:19,174 --> 00:22:22,454
Speaker 3: she was at Ed's High School in Campbelltown. People that

371
00:22:22,574 --> 00:22:25,214
Speaker 3: knew her at school, some of the people that I

372
00:22:25,254 --> 00:22:28,294
Speaker 3: spoke to were really scathing about her, And I thought

373
00:22:28,334 --> 00:22:30,894
Speaker 3: that was pretty awful. You know how school playgrounds can

374
00:22:30,934 --> 00:22:34,054
Speaker 3: be really nasty, and if you're dealing with someone who's

375
00:22:34,094 --> 00:22:39,214
Speaker 3: particularly vulnerable, that can have a real impact on someone.

376
00:22:39,294 --> 00:22:42,494
Speaker 3: And I think at that time in her life she

377
00:22:42,654 --> 00:22:47,254
Speaker 3: was very vulnerable, and I think she was also having

378
00:22:47,414 --> 00:22:52,934
Speaker 3: some mental health issues. Certainly there were schisms in her family.

379
00:22:53,414 --> 00:22:57,134
Speaker 3: Her mother and father had separated. It appears that she

380
00:22:57,214 --> 00:22:59,854
Speaker 3: wasn't very settled as a child, that she was moved

381
00:22:59,854 --> 00:23:02,174
Speaker 3: around a lot to a lot of different schools. Now

382
00:23:02,654 --> 00:23:06,014
Speaker 3: I'm speaking as somebody who had that experience in my

383
00:23:06,134 --> 00:23:08,934
Speaker 3: own life as a child, I was moved around a

384
00:23:08,974 --> 00:23:14,574
Speaker 3: lot and my family were not a happy family, and

385
00:23:14,654 --> 00:23:17,534
Speaker 3: I know what that means. I know how that can

386
00:23:17,734 --> 00:23:21,014
Speaker 3: kind of disconnect you in many ways and make you

387
00:23:21,054 --> 00:23:24,814
Speaker 3: feel like you don't have a firm surface to sort

388
00:23:24,854 --> 00:23:29,934
Speaker 3: of stand on to grow. So I sort of see

389
00:23:29,974 --> 00:23:33,094
Speaker 3: that in her, and I see that in that history

390
00:23:33,334 --> 00:23:33,734
Speaker 3: of her.

391
00:23:34,294 --> 00:23:37,494
Speaker 1: You know, when she kept going back to school as

392
00:23:37,534 --> 00:23:42,734
Speaker 1: an adult pretending to be a child, did she befriend

393
00:23:42,814 --> 00:23:46,894
Speaker 1: other kids? Was she popular? Was she also just a

394
00:23:46,894 --> 00:23:48,974
Speaker 1: bit of a misfit at school?

395
00:23:49,214 --> 00:23:53,214
Speaker 3: She did befriend the other kids. And we have had

396
00:23:53,574 --> 00:23:56,974
Speaker 3: some correspondence with parents of those kids who are very

397
00:23:57,014 --> 00:24:01,774
Speaker 3: angry about the fact that her school friends believed that

398
00:24:01,854 --> 00:24:04,974
Speaker 3: they were dealing with someone their own age, and then

399
00:24:05,014 --> 00:24:07,334
Speaker 3: they find out that she's in fact an adult and

400
00:24:07,414 --> 00:24:10,854
Speaker 3: she's a fake, and that nothing they've told them is true.

401
00:24:11,534 --> 00:24:15,654
Speaker 3: So they're very angry about what that means for their children.

402
00:24:16,294 --> 00:24:19,854
Speaker 3: None of those kids have been willing to speak, and

403
00:24:19,894 --> 00:24:22,414
Speaker 3: I kind of understand that there's a lot of traumatized

404
00:24:22,414 --> 00:24:26,454
Speaker 3: people in this story, including I think Samantha, and so

405
00:24:26,494 --> 00:24:28,694
Speaker 3: it's very difficult, and a lot of them are young,

406
00:24:29,494 --> 00:24:33,694
Speaker 3: so it's very difficult for them to talk about their experience. Again,

407
00:24:33,894 --> 00:24:36,814
Speaker 3: and a lot of them and their parents don't want

408
00:24:36,814 --> 00:24:39,454
Speaker 3: them to have to relive it. I think the big

409
00:24:39,534 --> 00:24:42,774
Speaker 3: thing that she did in those schools was she got

410
00:24:42,814 --> 00:24:46,054
Speaker 3: a lot of attention from teachers. She got a lot

411
00:24:46,094 --> 00:24:51,174
Speaker 3: of extra attention and help. And maybe that's what she craved.

412
00:24:51,334 --> 00:24:55,254
Speaker 3: Maybe that's what she craved at school. Maybe that's the

413
00:24:55,294 --> 00:24:58,174
Speaker 3: basis of all of her scams, is some sort of

414
00:24:58,774 --> 00:25:04,214
Speaker 3: feeling of being protected and looked after and loved and

415
00:25:04,934 --> 00:25:09,254
Speaker 3: nurtured in a way that maybe didn't happen at school.

416
00:25:10,054 --> 00:25:12,654
Speaker 1: She turned up in Canada in twenty fourteen. She was

417
00:25:12,694 --> 00:25:17,894
Speaker 1: twenty six by this time. What was her scam in Canada?

418
00:25:18,414 --> 00:25:22,374
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, this scam is so complicated. What's the

419
00:25:22,414 --> 00:25:25,334
Speaker 3: Mantha does is she often sets up her scams as well,

420
00:25:26,214 --> 00:25:29,694
Speaker 3: So there's quite a lot of pre planning and pre

421
00:25:29,774 --> 00:25:34,534
Speaker 3: thought to a lot of her scams. So what she

422
00:25:34,574 --> 00:25:39,894
Speaker 3: did was she rang the police and said that her

423
00:25:39,934 --> 00:25:45,854
Speaker 3: sister Aurora had gone missing, and that her sister and

424
00:25:45,974 --> 00:25:51,094
Speaker 3: herself were part of a cult and they'd run away

425
00:25:51,134 --> 00:25:53,934
Speaker 3: from the cult and their lives were in danger. And

426
00:25:53,974 --> 00:25:57,494
Speaker 3: of course in the cult there was sex abuse, and

427
00:25:57,534 --> 00:26:00,734
Speaker 3: there was all sorts of weird stuff going on, So

428
00:26:00,814 --> 00:26:04,134
Speaker 3: she reports her sister as a missing person.

429
00:26:04,774 --> 00:26:08,894
Speaker 1: So she makes up a fake person to report herself.

430
00:26:09,534 --> 00:26:11,574
Speaker 1: It's also fake to be missing.

431
00:26:12,014 --> 00:26:17,134
Speaker 3: Yep, exactly. It's complicated, isn't it. Sometimes this stuff does

432
00:26:17,134 --> 00:26:20,374
Speaker 3: your head in. Yeah, So this is all via phone.

433
00:26:20,454 --> 00:26:23,974
Speaker 3: She rings police, and the police put an alert for

434
00:26:24,094 --> 00:26:28,134
Speaker 3: this missing girl, and then two weeks later she walks

435
00:26:28,174 --> 00:26:32,454
Speaker 3: into another police station and says she's the missing girl.

436
00:26:33,414 --> 00:26:33,894
Speaker 1: Aurora.

437
00:26:34,494 --> 00:26:35,054
Speaker 3: Aurora.

438
00:26:35,454 --> 00:26:39,254
Speaker 11: It was on September sixteenth of twenty fourteen that a

439
00:26:39,294 --> 00:26:43,094
Speaker 11: young girl walked into the Alexandra Community Health Center, which

440
00:26:43,134 --> 00:26:47,054
Speaker 11: is in downtown Calgary. She was complaining about nausea and

441
00:26:47,174 --> 00:26:50,254
Speaker 11: vomiting that she'd had a head injury. She said her

442
00:26:50,334 --> 00:26:51,174
Speaker 11: name was Aurora.

443
00:26:51,214 --> 00:26:55,534
Speaker 3: Happern again, she's hospitalized. There's a lot of hospitals that

444
00:26:55,654 --> 00:26:58,374
Speaker 3: come into this story as well. The person in a

445
00:26:58,414 --> 00:27:01,094
Speaker 3: hospital there is the focus of attention, aren't they. They're

446
00:27:01,134 --> 00:27:03,654
Speaker 3: getting a lot of attention and a lot is happening

447
00:27:03,694 --> 00:27:07,694
Speaker 3: around them, but they're the focus. So yeah, she's put

448
00:27:07,734 --> 00:27:13,414
Speaker 3: into a hospital. The police to investigations. Her fingerprints are

449
00:27:13,494 --> 00:27:16,734
Speaker 3: taken and by this time her fingerprints are on file

450
00:27:17,374 --> 00:27:20,814
Speaker 3: and they figure out that she's in fact samanthas a party.

451
00:27:20,854 --> 00:27:25,494
Speaker 3: Australiansamantha as a party, They detained her. She goes to

452
00:27:25,614 --> 00:27:29,014
Speaker 3: jail there and they deport her from Canada.

453
00:27:28,654 --> 00:27:31,374
Speaker 12: Covy Police Service of Chars and Australian and Women with

454
00:27:31,494 --> 00:27:34,734
Speaker 12: mischief after cleaning she was under age victim of sex

455
00:27:35,214 --> 00:27:39,614
Speaker 12: trafficking and exploitation. The woman told investigators she'd endured years

456
00:27:39,654 --> 00:27:44,334
Speaker 12: of violent sexual abuse and torture. For several weeks, investigators

457
00:27:44,334 --> 00:27:47,454
Speaker 12: and healthcare workers spent countless hours working on the alleged

458
00:27:47,534 --> 00:27:51,854
Speaker 12: victims to establish the extent of her abuse and provide

459
00:27:51,894 --> 00:27:53,214
Speaker 12: services for her recovery.

460
00:27:53,774 --> 00:27:59,014
Speaker 3: But again, you know, she's basically spent thousands of dollars

461
00:27:59,054 --> 00:28:04,374
Speaker 3: in state resources and in resources such as nurses, hospitals,

462
00:28:04,934 --> 00:28:08,934
Speaker 3: care workers that probably would have been spent on somebody

463
00:28:08,974 --> 00:28:12,054
Speaker 3: who really was a victim rather than somebody who's just

464
00:28:12,854 --> 00:28:13,654
Speaker 3: playing a game.

465
00:28:14,974 --> 00:28:19,574
Speaker 1: So each time this happens overseas is she deported back

466
00:28:19,654 --> 00:28:22,014
Speaker 1: to Australia in Ireland.

467
00:28:22,054 --> 00:28:25,014
Speaker 3: The first time she was accompanied back to Australia by

468
00:28:25,294 --> 00:28:28,694
Speaker 3: Irish police, she didn't talk on the whole flight home.

469
00:28:29,174 --> 00:28:31,454
Speaker 3: She kept up the ruse of becking up the ruse

470
00:28:31,534 --> 00:28:32,414
Speaker 3: or on the whole.

471
00:28:33,214 --> 00:28:34,374
Speaker 1: Victim of sex slavery.

472
00:28:34,814 --> 00:28:38,414
Speaker 3: When she arrived back in Australia from Canada, she was

473
00:28:38,454 --> 00:28:42,534
Speaker 3: actually arrested because she'd been traveling on false passports. So

474
00:28:42,614 --> 00:28:45,694
Speaker 3: the Australian authorities met her at the airport and arrested her.

475
00:28:46,214 --> 00:28:50,534
Speaker 3: And she did sometime in jail in twenty fifteen because

476
00:28:50,574 --> 00:28:53,654
Speaker 3: of traveling on false passports. So she has done a

477
00:28:53,654 --> 00:28:56,694
Speaker 3: bit of jail time as well, but it doesn't seem

478
00:28:56,774 --> 00:29:01,134
Speaker 3: to be a huge deterrment. She did jail time for

479
00:29:01,694 --> 00:29:05,214
Speaker 3: the Merrickville Harper heart story as well, but it wasn't

480
00:29:05,374 --> 00:29:10,254
Speaker 3: a huge deterrent. She's done time in Melbourne. That's when

481
00:29:10,654 --> 00:29:14,214
Speaker 3: Samantha's offending becomes even more serious. I think.

482
00:29:16,894 --> 00:29:20,174
Speaker 1: Up next, Sharon tells us what happens when Samantha made

483
00:29:20,214 --> 00:29:23,774
Speaker 1: her way to Melbourne and the family that unknowingly became

484
00:29:23,814 --> 00:29:28,254
Speaker 1: involved in yet another of her scams. This one was

485
00:29:28,294 --> 00:29:37,934
Speaker 1: just devastating. Let's talk about Melbourne. What happened when she

486
00:29:37,974 --> 00:29:39,934
Speaker 1: got there in twenty nineteen.

487
00:29:41,014 --> 00:29:46,694
Speaker 3: Well, she answered ads on all pear sides. What I've

488
00:29:46,814 --> 00:29:51,254
Speaker 3: found in the process of making this is that because

489
00:29:51,414 --> 00:29:53,814
Speaker 3: childcare is so hard to come by and there's a

490
00:29:53,814 --> 00:29:56,934
Speaker 3: lot of busy women out there who really need to

491
00:29:57,094 --> 00:30:02,814
Speaker 3: find a solution to their childcare issues. They often don't

492
00:30:02,854 --> 00:30:06,854
Speaker 3: do enough due diligence on who they're bringing into their

493
00:30:06,934 --> 00:30:12,334
Speaker 3: homes they're making part of their family. Now, that was

494
00:30:12,414 --> 00:30:17,334
Speaker 3: certainly the case with Samantha. Is that she answered ads

495
00:30:17,414 --> 00:30:21,014
Speaker 3: on an all pair site in Melbourne. But before she

496
00:30:21,094 --> 00:30:25,614
Speaker 3: went to Melbourne, she'd also answered an ad on all

497
00:30:25,694 --> 00:30:28,974
Speaker 3: pair site in Brisbane, so she'd been in Brisbane. So

498
00:30:29,014 --> 00:30:31,414
Speaker 3: if we wind back a little bit, she'd been in Brisbane.

499
00:30:31,534 --> 00:30:34,214
Speaker 3: She answered an ad on all pair site and she

500
00:30:34,294 --> 00:30:38,694
Speaker 3: got picked up by the Jarvis family, Jazzy Jarvis and

501
00:30:38,734 --> 00:30:42,494
Speaker 3: Tom Jarvis, and Tom is a famous basketball and so

502
00:30:43,494 --> 00:30:47,654
Speaker 3: she had all paired for them and their daughter for

503
00:30:47,694 --> 00:30:52,014
Speaker 3: about six months in Brisbane. They were very happy with her.

504
00:30:52,294 --> 00:30:55,014
Speaker 3: She works very well in families and she often has

505
00:30:55,054 --> 00:30:57,854
Speaker 3: a great relationship with the kids that she's all airing.

506
00:30:58,414 --> 00:31:01,174
Speaker 10: We had no concerns at all quite the time. Loved her.

507
00:31:01,814 --> 00:31:04,134
Speaker 10: They got on really well. We weren't She met our

508
00:31:04,494 --> 00:31:06,414
Speaker 10: you know, I met our family, she met our friends.

509
00:31:06,414 --> 00:31:10,494
Speaker 10: She was at basketball games with fifteen thousand people and

510
00:31:10,614 --> 00:31:14,854
Speaker 10: nobody suspected she was thirty one. You know, she looked

511
00:31:14,894 --> 00:31:16,934
Speaker 10: really really young and nobody suspected.

512
00:31:16,934 --> 00:31:19,614
Speaker 1: The theme does she do it as herself under her

513
00:31:19,614 --> 00:31:20,094
Speaker 1: own name?

514
00:31:20,374 --> 00:31:20,494
Speaker 3: No?

515
00:31:21,254 --> 00:31:23,054
Speaker 1: And does she give herself a backstory?

516
00:31:23,374 --> 00:31:25,854
Speaker 3: Oh, she gives herself a great backstory. She often comes

517
00:31:25,894 --> 00:31:29,494
Speaker 3: from rich parents. There are often some of her parents

518
00:31:29,494 --> 00:31:33,774
Speaker 3: are lawyers. They're often based in the US, or if

519
00:31:33,814 --> 00:31:37,254
Speaker 3: they're Australian, they travel a lot, so they're often not

520
00:31:37,694 --> 00:31:41,534
Speaker 3: living in the country at the time. She supplies photos.

521
00:31:42,014 --> 00:31:45,254
Speaker 3: She has photos of her on yachts and all sorts

522
00:31:45,294 --> 00:31:49,254
Speaker 3: of things. I think she's pretty good at manipulating social media.

523
00:31:49,454 --> 00:31:54,174
Speaker 3: Often the photos don't have full pictures of her face,

524
00:31:55,494 --> 00:31:59,574
Speaker 3: so they could be her, but they couldn't be her

525
00:31:59,654 --> 00:32:00,134
Speaker 3: as well.

526
00:32:00,454 --> 00:32:03,294
Speaker 1: She's got long blonde hair. It's not that hard, yeah.

527
00:32:03,014 --> 00:32:06,814
Speaker 3: And she's good at stealing other photos of Facebook pages.

528
00:32:06,894 --> 00:32:09,694
Speaker 3: We've now realized, you know, that she's quite good at

529
00:32:09,774 --> 00:32:12,334
Speaker 3: lifting pictures, Sharon.

530
00:32:12,334 --> 00:32:15,014
Speaker 1: This sort of marked a real shift, as you say,

531
00:32:15,214 --> 00:32:20,294
Speaker 1: you know, going from portraying herself as a victim of

532
00:32:20,374 --> 00:32:28,894
Speaker 1: abuse or sex trafficking to being a very privileged young

533
00:32:28,934 --> 00:32:32,414
Speaker 1: woman who is there to take care of other people's children.

534
00:32:32,614 --> 00:32:35,134
Speaker 1: So she's no longer pretending to be an abused child,

535
00:32:36,014 --> 00:32:39,574
Speaker 1: but a privileged woman. This is like quite a big shift,

536
00:32:39,614 --> 00:32:41,734
Speaker 1: isn't it. Does it work better for her? Do you

537
00:32:41,734 --> 00:32:44,414
Speaker 1: think she just ran out of that story?

538
00:32:45,054 --> 00:32:49,974
Speaker 3: Yeah, quite possibly, because by that stage she was starting

539
00:32:50,014 --> 00:32:54,414
Speaker 3: to get a little more known and there were fingerprints

540
00:32:54,414 --> 00:33:00,014
Speaker 3: on file and maybe, you know, all of her stories

541
00:33:00,014 --> 00:33:04,254
Speaker 3: are around being childlike. Maybe this was just another sort

542
00:33:04,254 --> 00:33:08,974
Speaker 3: of step in the progression. Maybe at times she thought

543
00:33:08,974 --> 00:33:11,694
Speaker 3: it was a bit harder to pretend that she was

544
00:33:11,774 --> 00:33:15,174
Speaker 3: thirteen or fourteen. But I'm not so sure about that,

545
00:33:15,254 --> 00:33:17,734
Speaker 3: because she then came back to Sydney later on and

546
00:33:18,054 --> 00:33:21,374
Speaker 3: pretended to be a fifteen year old, so she still

547
00:33:21,414 --> 00:33:24,774
Speaker 3: gets away with it. I've seen Samantha. She's very young looking.

548
00:33:25,214 --> 00:33:28,854
Speaker 3: You know, you can look at her and feel incredible

549
00:33:28,974 --> 00:33:32,614
Speaker 3: empathy for her. You can feel like she's very young.

550
00:33:33,014 --> 00:33:36,054
Speaker 3: She certainly doesn't look thirty three or thirty four, which

551
00:33:36,054 --> 00:33:40,014
Speaker 3: she is now. She's very thin, she looks at times

552
00:33:40,134 --> 00:33:44,374
Speaker 3: very very distressed. It's very easy to kind of get

553
00:33:44,454 --> 00:33:48,454
Speaker 3: drawn into that. But I do think that there was

554
00:33:48,534 --> 00:33:52,334
Speaker 3: something about with the or pairing. There is something about

555
00:33:52,374 --> 00:33:55,814
Speaker 3: the fact that she was becoming more known, so she's

556
00:33:55,854 --> 00:33:58,134
Speaker 3: got to sort of vary the story a little bit.

557
00:33:58,934 --> 00:34:01,734
Speaker 1: And as an opair you live in with a family.

558
00:34:01,854 --> 00:34:04,374
Speaker 3: Usually again you're a bit more of a focus.

559
00:34:04,694 --> 00:34:07,614
Speaker 1: Yeah, you take care of the children, but you're also

560
00:34:08,094 --> 00:34:10,534
Speaker 1: a little bit of a child yourself, you know, in

561
00:34:10,614 --> 00:34:13,614
Speaker 1: terms of you get your meals made and you get

562
00:34:13,654 --> 00:34:17,654
Speaker 1: to live as part of the family in exchange for

563
00:34:18,414 --> 00:34:20,774
Speaker 1: doing some late housework off for looking after the children.

564
00:34:21,334 --> 00:34:25,094
Speaker 1: So she lived with the Jervis's. They were happy for

565
00:34:25,174 --> 00:34:26,414
Speaker 1: six months. Why did she leave?

566
00:34:27,014 --> 00:34:30,374
Speaker 3: Oh, she didn't leave. They had to move to Melbourne.

567
00:34:30,854 --> 00:34:34,014
Speaker 3: And so what they said was they wanted to take

568
00:34:34,014 --> 00:34:37,734
Speaker 3: her to Melbourne with them, and so she moved to

569
00:34:37,774 --> 00:34:41,654
Speaker 3: Melbourne with them, and she was all pairing for them.

570
00:34:41,734 --> 00:34:44,454
Speaker 3: But then a few things started to happen in the

571
00:34:44,574 --> 00:34:49,694
Speaker 3: Jarvis family that made Jazzy Jarvis a bit concerned about

572
00:34:49,694 --> 00:34:54,654
Speaker 3: who this young woman was and what she might be

573
00:34:54,814 --> 00:35:00,254
Speaker 3: presenting herself as In Melbourne, people rang Jazzy and said

574
00:35:00,294 --> 00:35:04,294
Speaker 3: that they had seen a woman with their child who

575
00:35:04,414 --> 00:35:07,414
Speaker 3: wanted free things and had said that she was married

576
00:35:07,454 --> 00:35:14,014
Speaker 3: to Tom Jarvis. And when they confronted Samantha about it,

577
00:35:14,134 --> 00:35:17,934
Speaker 3: and again Samantha was amusing her name. She was harper Hermandez.

578
00:35:18,414 --> 00:35:21,934
Speaker 3: When they confronted her about it, she had some sort

579
00:35:21,974 --> 00:35:26,014
Speaker 3: of fantastic story, but it didn't kind of ring true,

580
00:35:26,694 --> 00:35:30,214
Speaker 3: and there were a series of incidents like that that

581
00:35:30,894 --> 00:35:35,214
Speaker 3: started to make Jazzy Jarvis particularly a little bit unsure

582
00:35:35,254 --> 00:35:38,934
Speaker 3: about who this young woman was in their home. The

583
00:35:38,974 --> 00:35:42,694
Speaker 3: worst thing that happened, though, was that while she was

584
00:35:42,734 --> 00:35:46,814
Speaker 3: actually living with the Javiss she was also running a

585
00:35:46,854 --> 00:35:50,694
Speaker 3: couple of other scams that they knew nothing about. So

586
00:35:50,734 --> 00:35:54,014
Speaker 3: she would have holidays where she'd go and see her family,

587
00:35:54,814 --> 00:35:58,174
Speaker 3: but what she was actually doing while she was supposedly

588
00:35:58,294 --> 00:36:01,374
Speaker 3: going to see her family was running these other scams.

589
00:36:02,134 --> 00:36:06,294
Speaker 3: So she had put a couple of ads up as

590
00:36:06,414 --> 00:36:09,974
Speaker 3: a talent scout saying that she was looking looking for

591
00:36:10,294 --> 00:36:18,294
Speaker 3: young teenage girls to appear in animations, and a couple

592
00:36:18,294 --> 00:36:22,214
Speaker 3: of young girls answered those acts. One was a girl

593
00:36:22,254 --> 00:36:26,334
Speaker 3: in Sydney and another girl was a young girl in Melbourne,

594
00:36:26,734 --> 00:36:31,774
Speaker 3: and she was meeting with those girls at separate times.

595
00:36:31,814 --> 00:36:34,774
Speaker 3: This was a few months apart. She was a different

596
00:36:34,854 --> 00:36:37,934
Speaker 3: name for each of those girls, and she worked for

597
00:36:38,014 --> 00:36:42,974
Speaker 3: a different international talent agency, but she was meeting those

598
00:36:42,974 --> 00:36:46,734
Speaker 3: girls and getting them to perform these kind of very

599
00:36:46,734 --> 00:36:52,534
Speaker 3: bizarre tasks under the guise of auditions. So she would

600
00:36:52,574 --> 00:36:56,174
Speaker 3: get them to go into say a Center Lenk office

601
00:36:56,294 --> 00:36:59,934
Speaker 3: and say that they'd been sex trafficked. She'd paint bruises

602
00:36:59,934 --> 00:37:03,734
Speaker 3: on their faces. There were all sorts of strange things

603
00:37:03,774 --> 00:37:05,294
Speaker 3: that she was getting them to do.

604
00:37:06,094 --> 00:37:09,694
Speaker 7: She went by the name Maally TOAs she men, and

605
00:37:09,814 --> 00:37:13,494
Speaker 7: that I have been going through like really bad mental

606
00:37:13,494 --> 00:37:19,414
Speaker 7: health problems and that I needed to see a social worker.

607
00:37:20,734 --> 00:37:23,934
Speaker 7: And she pretended to be my mom. So it was

608
00:37:23,974 --> 00:37:27,054
Speaker 7: a bit like scary when I found out that I

609
00:37:27,094 --> 00:37:29,454
Speaker 7: wasn't allowed to tell anybody about it. I was a

610
00:37:29,494 --> 00:37:31,574
Speaker 7: little bit weirded out in ordered to tell my parents,

611
00:37:31,614 --> 00:37:32,454
Speaker 7: but I wasn't allowed.

612
00:37:33,014 --> 00:37:36,374
Speaker 1: So it's almost like a form of moonshousens and muonshousens

613
00:37:36,374 --> 00:37:37,014
Speaker 1: by proxy.

614
00:37:37,494 --> 00:37:41,294
Speaker 3: Yeah, very strange.

615
00:37:40,134 --> 00:37:44,614
Speaker 1: For attention you fabricate usually it's a physical illness, but

616
00:37:44,814 --> 00:37:48,854
Speaker 1: in this case it's almost a victimhood that she fabricates,

617
00:37:48,894 --> 00:37:51,694
Speaker 1: either on herself and now on these other young girls.

618
00:37:51,894 --> 00:37:54,774
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, very similar stories getting these young girls to

619
00:37:54,814 --> 00:37:57,454
Speaker 3: play out, very similar stories to the ones that she

620
00:37:57,654 --> 00:38:01,374
Speaker 3: had in fact played out when she was in Dublin

621
00:38:01,774 --> 00:38:05,734
Speaker 3: and in Canada and in Queensland and in Western Australia.

622
00:38:06,494 --> 00:38:08,174
Speaker 1: And why do you think she did that. Is it

623
00:38:08,214 --> 00:38:11,294
Speaker 1: to get the attention by vicariously Again, it wasn't a

624
00:38:11,294 --> 00:38:12,534
Speaker 1: financial scam.

625
00:38:12,614 --> 00:38:17,094
Speaker 3: It is vicarious attention. But maybe it's also about power.

626
00:38:18,614 --> 00:38:22,454
Speaker 3: Maybe it's also about getting some sort of enjoyment out

627
00:38:22,454 --> 00:38:25,734
Speaker 3: of the scam in a way, getting some sort of

628
00:38:26,854 --> 00:38:29,894
Speaker 3: thrill about the fact that you are able to trick people,

629
00:38:30,094 --> 00:38:33,454
Speaker 3: that you're good at it. I think there's an element

630
00:38:33,694 --> 00:38:40,174
Speaker 3: of that Insumanza that certainly as her scams have progressed.

631
00:38:40,494 --> 00:38:43,334
Speaker 3: Maybe they didn't start out this way. Maybe they started

632
00:38:43,374 --> 00:38:47,094
Speaker 3: as something to draw attention to herself, But I think

633
00:38:48,214 --> 00:38:52,174
Speaker 3: as time has gone on, I think she does get

634
00:38:52,254 --> 00:38:57,174
Speaker 3: some sort of pleasure or sense of power out of

635
00:38:57,414 --> 00:38:58,214
Speaker 3: tricking people.

636
00:38:58,854 --> 00:39:01,854
Speaker 1: When did things escalate to the point that she was

637
00:39:01,934 --> 00:39:04,414
Speaker 1: arrested for child's.

638
00:39:03,974 --> 00:39:08,454
Speaker 3: Dealing, Well, what happened in Melbourne was that Jazzy Jarvis

639
00:39:08,534 --> 00:39:11,854
Speaker 3: letter goes she'd had all of these sort of things

640
00:39:11,894 --> 00:39:15,094
Speaker 3: occurring that made are uncomfortable, so she let her go

641
00:39:15,214 --> 00:39:18,494
Speaker 3: as an all pair. At the same time, she's running

642
00:39:18,534 --> 00:39:23,454
Speaker 3: this talent scout scam with these young girls. Both of

643
00:39:23,494 --> 00:39:26,094
Speaker 3: those young girls, I have to say now and did

644
00:39:26,134 --> 00:39:30,454
Speaker 3: be traumatized, and so are their mothers and their parents

645
00:39:30,574 --> 00:39:34,734
Speaker 3: because they feel like their children are really vulnerable and

646
00:39:35,174 --> 00:39:39,494
Speaker 3: that they had some responsibility for that. Because they were

647
00:39:39,534 --> 00:39:42,934
Speaker 3: taken in by her as well and thought that what

648
00:39:43,534 --> 00:39:46,894
Speaker 3: she was getting the kids to do were auditions. They

649
00:39:46,934 --> 00:39:49,654
Speaker 3: were sort of pretty naive. They didn't really know how

650
00:39:50,094 --> 00:39:52,894
Speaker 3: these things went. One of the families did their due

651
00:39:52,934 --> 00:39:57,494
Speaker 3: diligence and looked up this international talent agency and there

652
00:39:57,614 --> 00:40:00,014
Speaker 3: was the person with the name and blah blah blah.

653
00:40:00,054 --> 00:40:04,014
Speaker 3: So you know, anyway, she gets dropped by the Jarvisism

654
00:40:04,214 --> 00:40:08,174
Speaker 3: all pairs, so she answers another all pair site. She's

655
00:40:08,374 --> 00:40:14,254
Speaker 3: employed by a family who are French and they've only

656
00:40:14,294 --> 00:40:18,814
Speaker 3: recently arrived in the country and she's got the care

657
00:40:18,854 --> 00:40:22,054
Speaker 3: of two young kids. I think one was one year old,

658
00:40:22,094 --> 00:40:25,134
Speaker 3: the other one was three. She's there for a couple

659
00:40:25,174 --> 00:40:28,334
Speaker 3: of weeks. Things seem to be going okay. She asked

660
00:40:28,374 --> 00:40:30,574
Speaker 3: the mom if she can take the kids on a picnic.

661
00:40:31,294 --> 00:40:35,054
Speaker 3: The mom says fine, but thinks it's a picnic just

662
00:40:35,134 --> 00:40:39,254
Speaker 3: down the road. She takes them to Bendigo, which is

663
00:40:39,294 --> 00:40:42,054
Speaker 3: a long way. She's living in the city in Melbourne.

664
00:40:42,334 --> 00:40:46,574
Speaker 3: That's two hours into a regional area. She takes these

665
00:40:46,694 --> 00:40:51,174
Speaker 3: kids to Bendigo. And as I was saying, before, she

666
00:40:51,254 --> 00:40:56,134
Speaker 3: sets up scams well ahead. She goes into this mental

667
00:40:56,174 --> 00:41:01,214
Speaker 3: health place in Bendigo with the kids, and she's also

668
00:41:01,294 --> 00:41:05,174
Speaker 3: got another backpacker in toe who speaks French with the kids.

669
00:41:05,254 --> 00:41:09,454
Speaker 3: That she kind of advertised a job, some sort of

670
00:41:09,614 --> 00:41:14,094
Speaker 3: data collection job that this backpacker had answered. So she's

671
00:41:14,134 --> 00:41:16,534
Speaker 3: got her in tow as well, who doesn't know that

672
00:41:16,614 --> 00:41:21,134
Speaker 3: she's involved in this big scam. She's been sexually abused

673
00:41:21,374 --> 00:41:25,534
Speaker 3: again by a relative and these kids a result of that,

674
00:41:27,094 --> 00:41:30,694
Speaker 3: and the woman behind the counter recognizes it and calls

675
00:41:30,734 --> 00:41:34,694
Speaker 3: the police. As I say, she'd set this scam up

676
00:41:34,734 --> 00:41:39,214
Speaker 3: well ahead. She had three months of contact with this

677
00:41:40,174 --> 00:41:45,174
Speaker 3: used mental health service in Bendigo before she actually walked

678
00:41:45,214 --> 00:41:49,254
Speaker 3: in there and did this, So this was planned. It

679
00:41:49,294 --> 00:41:50,494
Speaker 3: was all pre planned.

680
00:41:51,494 --> 00:41:54,334
Speaker 1: And Sharon, is that the CCTV footage I've seen of

681
00:41:54,374 --> 00:41:58,214
Speaker 1: her in a school uniform carrying a baby?

682
00:41:58,614 --> 00:42:01,614
Speaker 3: Yep, she had a school uniform which she also bought

683
00:42:01,694 --> 00:42:03,694
Speaker 3: online some months earlier.

684
00:42:04,174 --> 00:42:06,894
Speaker 1: Because that's deeply unsettling. I mean, she does look like

685
00:42:06,934 --> 00:42:11,214
Speaker 1: a schoolgirl and she's got this todd toddling behind her,

686
00:42:11,334 --> 00:42:14,094
Speaker 1: she's got a baby on her hip, it's like a

687
00:42:14,134 --> 00:42:17,894
Speaker 1: private schoolgirl uniform. She's sort of got this hat and

688
00:42:18,854 --> 00:42:21,134
Speaker 1: I think she claimed that she was pregnant at the time.

689
00:42:21,894 --> 00:42:24,254
Speaker 1: This is a woman who's at this stage in what

690
00:42:24,334 --> 00:42:25,734
Speaker 1: her late twenties, early.

691
00:42:25,574 --> 00:42:28,654
Speaker 3: Thirties, yeah, early thirties, And.

692
00:42:28,574 --> 00:42:30,414
Speaker 1: So the police came, she was arrested.

693
00:42:30,734 --> 00:42:33,854
Speaker 3: Well, no, what happened was she figured out that something

694
00:42:34,014 --> 00:42:37,734
Speaker 3: was up, so she actually took off, went into a

695
00:42:37,814 --> 00:42:41,094
Speaker 3: local shopping center and tried to kind of disappear, but

696
00:42:41,334 --> 00:42:44,974
Speaker 3: a police found her and was following her and actually

697
00:42:44,974 --> 00:42:50,254
Speaker 3: called out Samantha, and she turned around, and so they

698
00:42:50,334 --> 00:42:55,094
Speaker 3: arrested her. But the other disturbing thing about this is

699
00:42:55,494 --> 00:43:00,134
Speaker 3: when she was arrested, she totally maintained her silence and

700
00:43:00,174 --> 00:43:04,134
Speaker 3: wouldn't tell them who the children belonged to. So it

701
00:43:04,214 --> 00:43:06,814
Speaker 3: was only by sort of getting a hold of her

702
00:43:06,894 --> 00:43:11,614
Speaker 3: phone and getting into the details of her phone that

703
00:43:11,694 --> 00:43:14,414
Speaker 3: they actually figured out who the kids belonged to. So

704
00:43:14,454 --> 00:43:17,014
Speaker 3: there was a period of a couple of hours even

705
00:43:17,174 --> 00:43:20,814
Speaker 3: after she had been arrested, where the police could not

706
00:43:20,934 --> 00:43:24,414
Speaker 3: identify who the parents were. Oh my god, now those

707
00:43:24,494 --> 00:43:28,094
Speaker 3: parents are like totally traumatized, as you would be the

708
00:43:28,134 --> 00:43:32,174
Speaker 3: mother of those kids. No, longer trusts anyone to mind

709
00:43:32,254 --> 00:43:37,614
Speaker 3: her children. That has had a huge financial aside from

710
00:43:37,614 --> 00:43:40,974
Speaker 3: the psychological impact that it's had on the family. That's

711
00:43:41,014 --> 00:43:44,214
Speaker 3: had a huge financial impact on the family because the

712
00:43:44,254 --> 00:43:47,854
Speaker 3: mum was a working mum and she doesn't want to

713
00:43:47,894 --> 00:43:50,894
Speaker 3: do that anymore because she doesn't know who to trust.

714
00:43:51,494 --> 00:43:54,214
Speaker 8: She has that charisma of getting people to trust her

715
00:43:54,334 --> 00:43:57,774
Speaker 8: straight away, and that's an art form, and she's getting

716
00:43:57,774 --> 00:44:01,214
Speaker 8: people to invest in her, invest their time, invest their heart,

717
00:44:01,534 --> 00:44:05,414
Speaker 8: invest their care in her, and not supposedly she betrays

718
00:44:05,454 --> 00:44:05,774
Speaker 8: all of that.

719
00:44:06,414 --> 00:44:09,534
Speaker 1: What I really got from your podcast and from this store,

720
00:44:11,134 --> 00:44:14,654
Speaker 1: it's easy to say it's a victimless crime because no

721
00:44:14,734 --> 00:44:20,534
Speaker 1: one is physically harmed, there's no actual physical abuse in

722
00:44:20,534 --> 00:44:24,494
Speaker 1: most cases, there's no large amounts of money stolen. It's

723
00:44:24,534 --> 00:44:29,814
Speaker 1: all really playing with people's trust and people's emotions. And

724
00:44:29,894 --> 00:44:32,774
Speaker 1: in talking to some of these people, what did you

725
00:44:32,854 --> 00:44:36,014
Speaker 1: discover that the legacy was Because by now we're talking

726
00:44:36,014 --> 00:44:40,054
Speaker 1: about she'd been involved in over one hundred scams or

727
00:44:40,054 --> 00:44:42,614
Speaker 1: it'd been charged over one hundred times by now, hadn't she.

728
00:44:43,454 --> 00:44:48,214
Speaker 3: Yeah, these are not victimless crimes. In some ways, these

729
00:44:48,254 --> 00:44:51,694
Speaker 3: crimes are tougher than if she had a stolen money

730
00:44:52,334 --> 00:44:56,934
Speaker 3: or you know, identity documents. These are crimes that play

731
00:44:56,974 --> 00:45:02,254
Speaker 3: with your head. These are crimes that make you wonder

732
00:45:02,294 --> 00:45:05,694
Speaker 3: who you can trust, who you can let into your life,

733
00:45:06,374 --> 00:45:09,814
Speaker 3: make you question your own judgment about everything you know,

734
00:45:10,454 --> 00:45:14,454
Speaker 3: and particularly with the kids and your pair stuff. They're

735
00:45:14,494 --> 00:45:18,734
Speaker 3: making really question how you are as a parent.

736
00:45:19,454 --> 00:45:21,854
Speaker 1: Like, how could I have left my children?

737
00:45:21,974 --> 00:45:24,254
Speaker 3: How could I have put my kids in this sort

738
00:45:24,294 --> 00:45:27,334
Speaker 3: of danger? What kind of parent am I? Am? I

739
00:45:27,414 --> 00:45:30,254
Speaker 3: actually fit to be a parent? I don't know whether

740
00:45:30,254 --> 00:45:31,254
Speaker 3: you ever get over them.

741
00:45:32,134 --> 00:45:35,814
Speaker 1: Every time she was in front of a judge, what

742
00:45:36,054 --> 00:45:40,774
Speaker 1: did the judges do? Because often the actual things she

743
00:45:40,974 --> 00:45:46,774
Speaker 1: was charged with were not serious enough for a custodial sentence,

744
00:45:47,014 --> 00:45:51,094
Speaker 1: or certainly not a long custodial sentence, and yet she's

745
00:45:51,134 --> 00:45:52,374
Speaker 1: a menace to society.

746
00:45:53,454 --> 00:45:56,934
Speaker 3: Well, the judges are really concerned because they've got a

747
00:45:56,974 --> 00:46:01,974
Speaker 3: young woman in front of them who has done these

748
00:46:02,014 --> 00:46:05,854
Speaker 3: same sorts of things over and over again. Some of

749
00:46:05,894 --> 00:46:08,294
Speaker 3: the judges have been very angry about the fact that

750
00:46:08,294 --> 00:46:11,134
Speaker 3: she continues to appear and then have actually given her

751
00:46:11,134 --> 00:46:16,934
Speaker 3: custodial sentences. But they're also sort of weighing up often

752
00:46:17,814 --> 00:46:22,494
Speaker 3: the fact that she clearly has a background where she

753
00:46:22,534 --> 00:46:27,174
Speaker 3: has had problems in her background, possible sexual abuse in

754
00:46:27,214 --> 00:46:31,534
Speaker 3: her background, certainly mental health problems in her background.

755
00:46:31,774 --> 00:46:34,494
Speaker 1: Is that what her defense is each time she's charged,

756
00:46:34,534 --> 00:46:36,974
Speaker 1: because she has to table the defense. What is her defense?

757
00:46:37,374 --> 00:46:39,854
Speaker 3: Well, it's not her defense because she never speaks in court.

758
00:46:39,974 --> 00:46:44,694
Speaker 3: There she's always represented by a lawyer. When she appears

759
00:46:44,734 --> 00:46:47,214
Speaker 3: in court, she rarely says a word. It's the same

760
00:46:47,294 --> 00:46:51,294
Speaker 3: sort of approach that she has to police when she's arrested.

761
00:46:51,854 --> 00:46:53,174
Speaker 3: She rarely says anything.

762
00:46:53,574 --> 00:46:54,734
Speaker 1: Why is that do you think?

763
00:46:56,014 --> 00:47:01,174
Speaker 3: Oh, I think it's clever. Other people do all the defending.

764
00:47:01,534 --> 00:47:05,694
Speaker 3: I mean, she always pleads guilty. She doesn't plead not guilty.

765
00:47:05,934 --> 00:47:09,574
Speaker 3: There was only one time where she did that, and

766
00:47:09,614 --> 00:47:11,334
Speaker 3: she changed her plea fairly quickly.

767
00:47:11,614 --> 00:47:13,854
Speaker 1: What's the significance of that pleading guilty?

768
00:47:14,134 --> 00:47:17,054
Speaker 3: The significance is that the victims don't appear in the court.

769
00:47:17,254 --> 00:47:20,934
Speaker 3: She never has to face her victims. Sometimes there'll be

770
00:47:21,014 --> 00:47:24,374
Speaker 3: victim statements like they were in Melbourne, which is how

771
00:47:24,414 --> 00:47:29,174
Speaker 3: I know how impacted those families were. But quite often

772
00:47:29,454 --> 00:47:33,734
Speaker 3: she doesn't have to confront what she's done to these families,

773
00:47:34,414 --> 00:47:38,654
Speaker 3: and she has lawyers they're all legal lawyers. She never

774
00:47:38,694 --> 00:47:41,534
Speaker 3: has own lawyers, and they are always different lawyers, but

775
00:47:41,614 --> 00:47:46,454
Speaker 3: they genuinely represent their client as somebody who has a

776
00:47:46,494 --> 00:47:50,894
Speaker 3: background with mental health issues. Jail clearly isn't a deterrent.

777
00:47:51,014 --> 00:47:54,094
Speaker 3: She's been in there a few times. She's come out

778
00:47:54,134 --> 00:47:58,454
Speaker 3: and pretty much offended straightaway. You can put mental health

779
00:47:58,574 --> 00:48:02,454
Speaker 3: orders on her, or she had to attend psychological counseling, etc.

780
00:48:02,854 --> 00:48:05,734
Speaker 3: And that was mandatory, and if she broke that, she

781
00:48:05,774 --> 00:48:08,014
Speaker 3: would be back before the court. Or she broke that

782
00:48:08,054 --> 00:48:13,934
Speaker 3: within a matter of months. And so then the question arises,

783
00:48:14,854 --> 00:48:16,934
Speaker 3: what do you do with someone like Samantha?

784
00:48:17,974 --> 00:48:20,334
Speaker 1: So she won't seek help, she doesn't want to get better?

785
00:48:21,014 --> 00:48:25,494
Speaker 3: Yeah, does she actually understand the extent of her problem?

786
00:48:25,974 --> 00:48:30,414
Speaker 3: I think so? Why doesn't she seek help? I can't

787
00:48:30,574 --> 00:48:37,214
Speaker 3: really understand that. My feeling is it's not easy being Samantha,

788
00:48:39,534 --> 00:48:43,014
Speaker 3: and that I don't think that that life would be

789
00:48:43,054 --> 00:48:46,974
Speaker 3: a life that you would choose if you could make choices.

790
00:48:47,934 --> 00:48:51,654
Speaker 3: Maybe sometimes people grow out of this stuff. But she

791
00:48:51,814 --> 00:48:54,134
Speaker 3: is now close to mid thirty.

792
00:48:54,814 --> 00:48:57,814
Speaker 1: In your research and working on this case for such

793
00:48:57,854 --> 00:49:01,574
Speaker 1: a long time on this story, does she have relationships

794
00:49:01,614 --> 00:49:04,614
Speaker 1: a romantic relationship something that she ever seeks out.

795
00:49:05,654 --> 00:49:10,334
Speaker 3: No. Never. She told one of her psychiatrists report before

796
00:49:10,334 --> 00:49:13,894
Speaker 3: the court the relationships don't mean anything to her and

797
00:49:13,934 --> 00:49:18,014
Speaker 3: that she hasn't really ever had any relationships, and I

798
00:49:18,054 --> 00:49:20,174
Speaker 3: don't think she's got a lot of friends either.

799
00:49:20,694 --> 00:49:21,534
Speaker 1: What about family.

800
00:49:22,214 --> 00:49:26,694
Speaker 3: Her family, at different times, particularly her father, has been

801
00:49:27,374 --> 00:49:31,214
Speaker 3: it seems quite supportive of her, certainly when she was

802
00:49:31,294 --> 00:49:34,974
Speaker 3: before the courts last year, when I was following her

803
00:49:35,014 --> 00:49:37,934
Speaker 3: through a trial in front of Picton Court, she was

804
00:49:38,054 --> 00:49:41,694
Speaker 3: living with her father, But at various times she has

805
00:49:41,734 --> 00:49:44,494
Speaker 3: told the courts that she's estranged from her family and

806
00:49:44,534 --> 00:49:47,694
Speaker 3: doesn't really want anything to do with them. So it's

807
00:49:47,774 --> 00:49:50,654
Speaker 3: kind of really hard to know what the truth of

808
00:49:50,734 --> 00:49:54,214
Speaker 3: the family situation is. Of course, in the making of

809
00:49:54,254 --> 00:49:57,774
Speaker 3: the podcast, I reached out to a number of family members,

810
00:49:57,814 --> 00:49:59,334
Speaker 3: but none of them wanted to speak.

811
00:50:00,734 --> 00:50:03,734
Speaker 1: This wasn't the end of my conversation with Sharon. We

812
00:50:03,814 --> 00:50:07,174
Speaker 1: cat the microphones turned on for Mum and me as subscribers,

813
00:50:07,574 --> 00:50:10,454
Speaker 1: because in the next part of this interview that's available

814
00:50:10,494 --> 00:50:13,094
Speaker 1: now via the link in our show notes, we discuss

815
00:50:13,174 --> 00:50:18,974
Speaker 1: how Sharon's life became unexpectedly and really weirdly entangled with

816
00:50:19,054 --> 00:50:22,254
Speaker 1: this case. And the impact that Samantha has had on

817
00:50:22,374 --> 00:50:24,774
Speaker 1: Sharon personally. Here's a taste.

818
00:50:25,454 --> 00:50:30,574
Speaker 3: So she does her research, she works out people's vulnerabilities,

819
00:50:30,614 --> 00:50:34,734
Speaker 3: she works out areas of connection, she does a lot

820
00:50:34,774 --> 00:50:38,654
Speaker 3: of research, and she's clearly with me, had done research

821
00:50:38,734 --> 00:50:41,054
Speaker 3: on me as well. So you know, when you get

822
00:50:41,054 --> 00:50:44,414
Speaker 3: a call from someone who's saying they've got documents you

823
00:50:44,494 --> 00:50:49,654
Speaker 3: need to see about international corruption, and you've got experience

824
00:50:50,054 --> 00:50:53,814
Speaker 3: and a profile as an investigative journalist that does those

825
00:50:53,934 --> 00:50:55,694
Speaker 3: kind of stories, well you're going to buy it.

826
00:50:56,534 --> 00:51:00,054
Speaker 1: I remember. You can listen right now by clicking on

827
00:51:00,094 --> 00:51:03,054
Speaker 1: the link in the show notes. This episode was produced

828
00:51:03,094 --> 00:51:06,374
Speaker 1: by Cassie Merritt and Emmeline Gazillis. The executive producer of

829
00:51:06,374 --> 00:51:09,534
Speaker 1: No Filter is Eliza Ratliff, with sound production by Maddelin.

830
00:51:10,694 --> 00:51:13,294
Speaker 1: I'm mea Friedman and thank you for having me in

831
00:51:13,334 --> 00:51:13,774
Speaker 1: your years.

832
00:51:18,054 --> 00:51:20,254
Speaker 2: We hope you enjoyed this episode of No Filter. To

833
00:51:20,294 --> 00:51:23,334
Speaker 2: hear part two of this conversation, subscribers can follow the

834
00:51:23,334 --> 00:51:25,654
Speaker 2: link in our show notes to access it. For more

835
00:51:25,734 --> 00:51:28,614
Speaker 2: updates on this story and your daily dose of news,

836
00:51:28,694 --> 00:51:31,654
Speaker 2: follow the Quikie wherever you get your podcasts. There'll also

837
00:51:31,694 --> 00:51:33,534
Speaker 2: be a link to follow no filter in the show

838
00:51:33,534 --> 00:51:37,134
Speaker 2: notes too. We'll catch you again, six am Monday. The

839
00:51:37,214 --> 00:51:40,214
Speaker 2: Quikie is produced by me Claire Murphy and our Senior Producer,

840
00:51:40,254 --> 00:51:43,094
Speaker 2: Taylor Straano, with audio production by Tom Lyon