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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Good morning from gadigul Land. I'm Taylor Strano. Untenable. That's

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Speaker 2: the word National's leader David little Proud used to describe

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Speaker 2: the coalition under Susan Lee's leadership. As every single Nationals

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Speaker 2: MP resigns from the shadow front bench, we're left with

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Speaker 2: several questions about where to from here for the lips

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Speaker 2: before we get there. Claire Murphy's Got You News headlines

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Speaker 2: for Friday, January twenty.

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Speaker 1: Three, Thanks Taylor. Police are searching a large area for

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Speaker 1: a shooter who killed three people and injured a fourth

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Speaker 1: in the small central West New South Wales town of

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Speaker 1: Lake Cargieligo. Locals in the town, about five hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty kilometers west of Sydney have been told to stay

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Speaker 1: inside and report any suspicious activity after yesterday afternoon's attack,

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Speaker 1: where a man and a woman were killed when bullets

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Speaker 1: were fired into their vehicle around four to twenty pm.

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Speaker 1: A short time later, another woman was shot dead on

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Speaker 1: nearby street. The man she was with was also shot.

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Speaker 1: He was rushed to hospital in a critical condition. The

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Speaker 1: attack happening over a half hour period before the shooter

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Speaker 1: drove off The attacker and the victims are yet to

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Speaker 1: be publicly named, but police say they have identified the offender,

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Speaker 1: who remains at large, with concerns they are armed and

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Speaker 1: on the move. Police are appealing for anyone in the

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Speaker 1: area at the time of the attack who may have

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Speaker 1: mobile phone or dash cam footage of the incident to

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Speaker 1: come forward, as well as anyone who might have CCTV

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Speaker 1: or any other material link to the shooting. The Liberals

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Speaker 1: are preparing for a challenge to Susan Lee's leadership, likely

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Speaker 1: when Parliament returns in February, although exact details of the

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Speaker 1: timing have not been confirmed. The Liberal National Coalition dissolved

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Speaker 1: again yesterday after a disagreement over voting for the new

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Speaker 1: anti hate speech laws, with National leader David little Proud

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Speaker 1: declaring earlier this week that they would not reunite under

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Speaker 1: Susan Lee's leadership. Insiders from both parties believe this split

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Speaker 1: will last much longer than the previous week long breakup

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Speaker 1: following Labour's Landslight election victory in May last year. With

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Speaker 1: miss Lee's leadership hanging in the balance, Conservatives Angus Taylor

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Speaker 1: and Andrew Hasty are seen as her most likely successors,

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Speaker 1: but one liberal source described mister Hasty as one nation light,

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Speaker 1: warning his brand of fiery conservative politics would do little

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Speaker 1: to win over new voters. Mister Taylor also carries some

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Speaker 1: baggage from his time as Shadow Treasurer, with some liberals

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Speaker 1: claiming he didn't do enough to develop economic policy in

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Speaker 1: the lead up to the election. Rumors of a possible

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Speaker 1: challenge to mister Little Proud's leadership is also being discussed.

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Speaker 1: Anthony Alberniezi has delivered an emotional apology to the loved

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Speaker 1: ones of those killed in the Bondai massacre, saying the

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Speaker 1: grief inflicted on the Jewish community represented a cruelty beyond measure.

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Speaker 3: Tragically, we are gathered here tonight because on the fourteenth

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Speaker 3: of December, everything changed, and for that I am sorry.

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Speaker 3: We cherish the promise of Australia that this country is

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Speaker 3: a harbor, but sadly that promise was broken. You came

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Speaker 3: to celebrate a festival of light and freedom and you

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Speaker 3: were met with the violence of hatred. I am deeply

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Speaker 3: and profoundly sorry that we could not protect your love

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Speaker 3: once from this evil.

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Speaker 1: The Prime Minister last night joined fellow dignitaries and Jewish

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Speaker 1: leaders at a memorial service at the Sydney Opera House,

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Speaker 1: capping a national day of mourning for the fifteen victims

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Speaker 1: of the attack. The event, dubbed Light will Win, took

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Speaker 1: place against a backdrop of heavy security, with a police

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Speaker 1: sniper planted on the roof of one of the opera

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Speaker 1: house sales and helicopter patrolling Sydney Harbor. A UK court

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Speaker 1: has heard that Baron Trump, the younger son of US

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Speaker 1: President Donald Trump, called police in London to explain that

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Speaker 1: he believed a female friend of his had been assaulted.

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Speaker 1: The nineteen year old reached out to UK police in

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Speaker 1: January last year after he called the friend, who he'd

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Speaker 1: met via social media and said he saw her being attacked.

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Speaker 1: He told police that he was calling from the US,

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Speaker 1: but that he'd gotten a call from the girl who

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Speaker 1: was getting beat up, and that the call had occurred

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Speaker 1: eight minutes before, but it had to work out how

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Speaker 1: to contact police in London from the United States. Baron

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Speaker 1: Trump had been asked to provide a witness statement with

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Speaker 1: the victim's alleged attack and now on trial for rape

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Speaker 1: and assault, to which Trump responded that what he saw

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Speaker 1: was very brief indeed, but indeed prevalent, describing a shirtless

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Speaker 1: man with darkish hair who initially answered the phone before

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Speaker 1: his view flipped to the victim. He went on to

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Speaker 1: say that as per evidence, I don't have any I

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Speaker 1: was told by the victim, who I'm very close to,

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Speaker 1: that this individual was giving her difficulty for a long time.

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Speaker 1: The alleged attacker denies the charges. Segregation era vampire thriller

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Speaker 1: Sinners starring Michael B. Jordan, has set a record for

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Speaker 1: the most Academy Award nominations of any film with sixteen.

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Speaker 1: The previous record for most nominations in a single year

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Speaker 1: was fourteen, A mark hit by All About Eve, Titanic

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Speaker 1: and La La Land. Sinners will face off against one

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Speaker 1: battle after another Frankenstein, Hamnet, Marty Supreme, Bigonia, f One,

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Speaker 1: The Secret Agent, Sentimental Value, and Train Dreams for the

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Speaker 1: Best Picture Trophy. Ossie. Actors Rose Byrne and Jacob Elordi

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Speaker 1: have both been nominated this year, with burn up for

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Speaker 1: Best Actress in a Leading Role for If I Had Legs,

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Speaker 1: I'd Kick You, and a Laudie for his supporting role

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Speaker 1: in Frankenstein. The ceremony will be held on March fifteen

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Speaker 1: in the US March sixteen for US here in Australia,

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Speaker 1: with comedian Conan O'Brien hosting again.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Claire. Next, all eyes on Susan Lee as the

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Speaker 2: coalition crumbles. The Liberal and National parties have split again. Yesterday,

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Speaker 2: all eight of the National MPs who sat in the

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Speaker 2: opposition front bench resigned. It started when three National senators

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Speaker 2: quit after crossing the floor on the hate speech laws,

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Speaker 2: Opposition leader Susan Lee accepting their resignations after they abstained

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Speaker 2: from voting from there. The remaining eight NAT frontbenches followed

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Speaker 2: soon also calling it quits and moving to the backbench

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Speaker 2: in a show of solidarity with their senate compatriots. National's

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Speaker 2: leader David Little Prowd did not mince words when he

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Speaker 2: addressed the media over the mass exodus. We might have

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Speaker 2: very clear that there would be a consequence and.

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Speaker 3: That if Susan accepted those resignations then that consequence is

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Speaker 3: that the coalition would be untenable.

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Speaker 2: This marks the second time the coalition have parted ways

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Speaker 2: in less than a year, the first instance being an

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Speaker 2: eight day break following the election wipeout back in May

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Speaker 2: last year. So now the question is without the support

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Speaker 2: of the National Party and the coalition in tatters. What

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Speaker 2: does that mean for Susan Lee as leader of the

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Speaker 2: Liberals and what about for you at home. Let's bring

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Speaker 2: in political analyst and contributing editor of the New Daily,

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Speaker 2: Amy Romi, because Amy, did we see hate speech laws

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Speaker 2: coming as the thing to drive another witch between the

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Speaker 2: Liberals and the Nationals.

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Speaker 4: I don't think that the Liberal parties or the hate

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Speaker 4: speech laws doing that. I think that Anthony Alberzi and

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Speaker 4: Labor certainly saw it doing at least a lot of damage,

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Speaker 4: if not what we've seen in terms of the split.

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Speaker 4: And I think that if anyone was watching the politics

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Speaker 4: of this, they would have seen the trap coming. The

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Speaker 4: first rule of politics is if the other side really

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Speaker 4: wants you to do something and they're knocking on your

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Speaker 4: door saying please do this for us, there is no

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Speaker 4: benefit to you. But Susan Lee had so comprehensively politicized

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Speaker 4: what happened after that abhorrent attack in Bondi on December

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Speaker 4: fourteenth that she kind of became a little bit trapped

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Speaker 4: by her own politics, and Anthony Albanesi and Labor exploited that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one of the big criticisms of Susan

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Speaker 2: Lee in her Liberal leadership is that, well, she didn't

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Speaker 2: really stand for anything, so she chose this as the

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Speaker 2: thing to stand for, and it's ultimately potentially become her undoing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it has because even in standing for this, she

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Speaker 4: hasn't been consistent. So one of the things that she

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Speaker 4: did was immediately that Parliament be recalled. She immediately demanded

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Speaker 4: that legislation be created, when the smart move politically would

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Speaker 4: have been to say, we're going to give you our

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Speaker 4: full support, we're not going to play politics with this

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Speaker 4: and we're going to take the time to get this

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Speaker 4: legislation right, because then the Liberal Party would have been

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Speaker 4: able to actually negotiate on the bill. They could have

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Speaker 4: said that they are doing this to ensure that the

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Speaker 4: laws that Labor put forth were actually going to do

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Speaker 4: the things that they wanted them to do. And by

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Speaker 4: not rushing back to Parliament, no one was making decisions

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Speaker 4: in the middle of the tempest. But Susan Lee has

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Speaker 4: always reacted in terms of how she handles politics. She's

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Speaker 4: always gone by instinct and it's very rarely led her

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Speaker 4: in the right direction.

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Speaker 2: I want to focus on Susan Lee's leadership a little

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Speaker 2: bit more in a moment. But first a very maybe

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Speaker 2: basic question. The coalition no more as we know it.

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Speaker 2: Are the Liberal Parties still the opposition government? How does

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Speaker 2: it work now?

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Speaker 4: The Liberal Parties still are the opposition. It goes by

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Speaker 4: numbers in the Parliament, so they are still the official opposition,

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Speaker 4: but it does mean that in terms of their impact

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Speaker 4: culturally they are definitely muted there. They do not have

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Speaker 4: as much of a say. And when it comes to

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Speaker 4: negotiating in the Senate, which is where bills get passed,

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Speaker 4: it's still the Greens or the Liberal Party, But the

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Speaker 4: issue for the Liberal Party now is that they themselves

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Speaker 4: are not united around common positions, which gives the Greens

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Speaker 4: more of an entree to say we agree with this

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Speaker 4: or we don't agree with that, but they're more of

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Speaker 4: a cohesive unit to get a legislation through.

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Speaker 2: So this story obviously centers on the fact that the

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Speaker 2: National's shadow cabinet members have resigned. They've moved to the

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Speaker 2: backbench now, and in doing so, David Little Proud really

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Speaker 2: puts Susan Lee front and center of that decision, which

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Speaker 2: then raises all these questions about her leadership. Right, So

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Speaker 2: we are focusing on her specifically as the leader of

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Speaker 2: the opposition, the person who was meant to really leave

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Speaker 2: and steer through this, not just this policy decision, but

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Speaker 2: all of them, which now leads us to the question of, well,

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Speaker 2: what's going to happen to her as the leader. He

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Speaker 2: said that it was untenable the coalition with her at

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Speaker 2: the forefront. You have been saying from I think May

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Speaker 2: last year, when we first started talking about her in

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Speaker 2: this top prime position, that she won't last as long

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Speaker 2: as maybe she thinks. She made it through summer, she

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Speaker 2: made it through the last split, which was on the

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Speaker 2: eight days long. What happens now, Amy.

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Speaker 4: Susan Lee can't come back from this. She doesn't have

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Speaker 4: authority in her party room, she doesn't have authority over

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Speaker 4: the Nationals, she has no negotiating tool here. And just

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Speaker 4: so everyone knows just how serious this is, Susan Lee

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Speaker 4: released a statement immediately after the eight remaining Nationals quit

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Speaker 4: the shadow cabinet and said, don't be so hasty. I'm

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Speaker 4: not going to accept your resignation. We just all need

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Speaker 4: to take a step back. David Little Proud was not

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Speaker 4: taking her calls. He did not take her calls that evening.

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Speaker 4: There were several attempts for Susan Lee to speak to

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Speaker 4: David Little Proud. There were several attempts to stop David

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Speaker 4: Little Proud from standing up and saying the Coalition is split,

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Speaker 4: and there were certainly attempts to stop him from doing it.

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Speaker 4: On the National Day of Mourning, David Little Proud called

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Speaker 4: a press conference for eight thirty in the morning. He

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Speaker 4: just wanted this done. That's to save his own leadership,

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Speaker 4: but it also means that Susan Lee she cannot come

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Speaker 4: back from that. So it's just a question of when

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Speaker 4: this happens. And if this was at the UK, we'd

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Speaker 4: probably be getting letterces out right now.

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Speaker 2: You say it's a question of when, but it's also

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Speaker 2: a question of who. I mean, we had this discussion

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Speaker 2: a little while back of who else if not Susan Lee,

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Speaker 2: did the same names remain in play? Andrew Hasty, Angus Taylor.

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Speaker 4: That's pretty much it. Like the talent pool is not

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Speaker 4: overly deep for the Coalition at this particular point. And

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Speaker 4: that's not just me saying that, that's anyone who's sort

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Speaker 4: of looking at what's left of the coalition, but Angus

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Speaker 4: Taylor is probably emerging as a stronger candidate just because

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Speaker 4: he was not in the country when this mess happened,

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Speaker 4: so he doesn't have any ownership over it. Andrew Hasty,

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Speaker 4: who had made a big deal on the social media

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Speaker 4: and he's been courting One Nation supporters and more of

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Speaker 4: the right of the Liberal in recent months, certainly since

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Speaker 4: the last election. He had originally won praise for saying

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Speaker 4: that he was voting against the laws. He turned around

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Speaker 4: and voted for these revised laws that have caused all

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Speaker 4: of these issues. He has lost a large chunk of

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Speaker 4: his credibility with that particular constituency. Angus Taylor, though, wasn't

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Speaker 4: in the country to vote for them or not vote

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Speaker 4: for them, so he is emerging as the strongest contender.

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Speaker 2: So what do the next few days look like for

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Speaker 2: the Liberal Party then, I mean, Parliament doesn't resume again

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Speaker 2: for a couple of weeks. Do we think that this

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Speaker 2: could all unfold in a few weeks before they sit

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Speaker 2: back down.

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Speaker 4: There are going to be conversations happening at all hours

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Speaker 4: of the days. They're going to be people doing the numbers.

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Speaker 4: There's going to be attempts to pretend that this isn't

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Speaker 4: an issue. But the moment that the Liberal Party all

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Speaker 4: gets back together in the one room, they will more

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Speaker 4: likely than not call a spill and they will sack

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Speaker 4: Susan Lee as leader. And then it just becomes how

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Speaker 4: do they move forward from that because they have to

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Speaker 4: rebuild a relation with the coalition. It's not in the

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Speaker 4: National's interest or the liberals interests to immediately jump back

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Speaker 4: into that marriage together. And also all of Susan Lee's

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Speaker 4: allies are going to be burnt from this. You're going

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Speaker 4: to see a complete reshuffle of the Liberal Party leadership

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Speaker 4: and these often can take months, if not years, to resolve.

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Speaker 4: So this is not the end of it. This is

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Speaker 4: just a kind of end of one particular chapter. But

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Speaker 4: the mess within the coalition it is going to continue.

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Speaker 2: I just want to ask as well. One headline that

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Speaker 2: we've seen in the last couple of days is that

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Speaker 2: of the one nation surge in the polls against something

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Speaker 2: like the Liberal Party. Paul In Hanson has said I'm

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Speaker 2: ready to step in and lead whenever you need me.

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Speaker 2: Now that is probably a little bit further away from

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Speaker 2: reality than what she would like to admit. But is

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Speaker 2: there a reality where say, the Nationals and One Nation

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Speaker 2: former coalition.

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Speaker 4: I mean anything is in the realms of possibility, and

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Speaker 4: the National's biggest threat in their electorate is One Nation,

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Speaker 4: So it wouldn't necessarily be in One Nation's interest to

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Speaker 4: join with the Nationals, although it would give them more

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Speaker 4: relevancy in the Parliament, although it wouldn't change their ability

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Speaker 4: to vote on policy. There's still not enough of them

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Speaker 4: to swing any particular votes. But One Nation's rise in

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Speaker 4: the poll has come at the expense of the Liberal Party.

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Speaker 4: Labor has taken a haircut, but mostly it has come

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Speaker 4: from the coalition's own vote. If that continues, you're going

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Speaker 4: to reach a point where you're going to have the

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Speaker 4: Nationals leader David Little Proud in potential big trouble and

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Speaker 4: his seat of Marianoa. You're going to see more of

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Speaker 4: the Queensland LMP start to worry about what's going to happen,

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Speaker 4: and it's going to impact how many Liberal senators are

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Speaker 4: in the Senate, which is a pretty big deal for

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Speaker 4: Australia's two party system. So it doesn't mean that one

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Speaker 4: Nation's going to be the established opposition, but it does

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Speaker 4: mean that one Nation kind of has a lot of

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Speaker 4: power here because the issue for the Coalition as opposed

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Speaker 4: to One Nation is the Coalition is a party of government.

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Speaker 4: It is an opposition. It does have a say in policy,

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Speaker 4: at least as much as Labor gives it, and that

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Speaker 4: means that they have to be somewhat serious about the

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Speaker 4: proposals that they put up. One nation doesn't have to.

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Speaker 4: They can say whatever they want, they can make up

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Speaker 4: whatever they want. It's much easier to communicate a message,

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Speaker 4: and I don't think that the Coalition have quite worked

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Speaker 4: out how to neutralize that, because they've been too busy

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Speaker 4: trying to get them into the tent.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with

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Speaker 2: us today. Don't forget. We're back Thesavo with another news update.

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Speaker 2: Make sure you're following us in your favorite podcast app

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Speaker 2: so you'd never miss an episode. The Quiki is produced

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Speaker 2: by me Taylor Strano, Lario Brophy, and Clare Murphy, with

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Speaker 2: audio production by Jacob Brown.

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Speaker 1: Muma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on