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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to

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Speaker 2: MoMA Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking

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Speaker 2: about on Wednesday, the twenty fourth of September. And my

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Speaker 2: name is Hollywayen.

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Speaker 3: Right, I'm Jesse Stevens, and my name is Amelia Lester,

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Speaker 3: and I have something to tease before we get into

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Speaker 3: today's show. Remember our Taro card reader friend Evelyn. She

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Speaker 3: said during the episode. I can't remember if it was

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Speaker 3: a subscriber, if it was on the main episode, but

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Speaker 3: she said there will be a big.

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Speaker 4: Announcement coming on out Loud.

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Speaker 2: She did two weeks.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she said this, and I was like, I'd shore,

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Speaker 3: I'm not. There is a big announcement coming on out

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Speaker 3: Loud on Friday. That is my teas. Be the first

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Speaker 3: to listen. It drops a bit earlier on a Friday, make.

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Speaker 2: Sure you're on that show, and make sure.

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Speaker 3: Because there's some exciting news. So there's my little teas

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Speaker 3: for Friday.

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Speaker 2: That is as much as we're giving you, we are mean.

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Speaker 2: But on today's show, here is what made our agenda.

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Speaker 3: An announcement from President Trump this week about pregnancy autism

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Speaker 3: and paracetamol upset me even more than I expected. We

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Speaker 3: discussed the new directive for pregnant women, which is to

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Speaker 3: tough it out.

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Speaker 5: I've got a phone charging theory, which is not just

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Speaker 5: about phones.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you about it.

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Speaker 2: And tremble in your soft pants. Friends. Your office attire

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Speaker 2: is not appropriate and you need to get ready to

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Speaker 2: be shamed about it because dressing for work is back.

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Speaker 2: But first, Amelia Lester.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, in case you missed it, I got some good

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Speaker 5: news and some bad news. I guess I'll tell you

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Speaker 5: the good news first.

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Speaker 1: The bears. The bears are getting fatter than ever. Do

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm talking about it?

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Speaker 2: Are you talking about fat Bear Week?

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Speaker 5: It is fat bear Week? Can we have a vovo

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Speaker 5: zailor sound just there? Is that?

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Speaker 1: The word I don't know is that the.

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Speaker 5: Word Voting has opened for the eleventh year of this

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Speaker 5: contest that's run by the Alaska National Park to German,

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Speaker 5: who the fattest bear is?

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Speaker 2: Is that? Because it's so it's seasonal right, they're about

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Speaker 2: to go into hibernation and they've got to carblow it?

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Speaker 2: Is that great protein fish load.

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Speaker 1: They're up your alley, Holly.

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Speaker 5: They're all about the protein. They need nothing but salmon.

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Speaker 5: Think of their skin so radiant goodness. So you go

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Speaker 5: and watch a webcam of bears feeding at Brooks Falls,

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Speaker 5: which is a very beautiful looking place in Alaska, and

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Speaker 5: they're all eating their salmon, and then you vote on

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Speaker 5: which bear you think has fattened up the most over

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Speaker 5: the summer for the coming winter hibernation. And the voting

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Speaker 5: has just opened for this year. The contest is open

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Speaker 5: to all the bears in the park. There's about two

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Speaker 5: thy three hundred of them. As long as they are

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Speaker 5: sufficiently chunky.

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Speaker 3: They must be trying the big bears, only to think

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Speaker 3: that they're stoked when they find that the camera's following them.

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Speaker 5: Yes, there are some there definitely are more into it

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Speaker 5: than others. Bears double their weight over the summer in

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Speaker 5: preparation for hibernation, which I just love as.

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Speaker 2: A fat fighting each other for the Yes.

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Speaker 1: They're fighting each other.

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Speaker 5: And I want to give a special shout out to

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Speaker 5: the adult females because I learned that basically they have

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Speaker 5: to get fat because they give birth to cubs midwinter

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Speaker 5: and then they're in the cave with them nursing them

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Speaker 5: until they come out in the spring.

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Speaker 1: But they're not eating anything.

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Speaker 5: For that whole time, so they give birth and nurse

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Speaker 5: and there's no food until they exit.

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Speaker 3: Apparently they've got particularly fat this season because there's been

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Speaker 3: a lot of food in the past, has been fighting

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Speaker 3: when it's been limited. But the ranger has said the

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Speaker 3: bears are extremely fat this year, and I'm looking forward

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Speaker 3: to seeing how people react to how fat they are.

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Speaker 2: Okay, how people react with shock and awe and a

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Speaker 2: tape measure in hand. I saw my bucket list to

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Speaker 2: go and see those beads. Me too, I would love too.

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Speaker 2: But maybe it's not as good as it sounds. Maybe

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Speaker 2: there's just like a horde of people.

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Speaker 5: Look, there's a webcam. I would say, you don't need

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Speaker 5: to get on a plane. The webcam will give it

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Speaker 5: all to you. There's a guy named Mike Fitz who's

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Speaker 5: a ranger who won the first year of the contest,

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Speaker 5: and he said that the reason why people love this, Yes,

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Speaker 5: it's because the news is full of doom and gloom

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Speaker 5: and it's respite from that. But also, and I want

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Speaker 5: to get this quote right, because it's delightful. Beyond that,

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Speaker 5: people just like looking at photos of round animals.

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Speaker 1: Round animal that's why we like. Look.

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Speaker 5: Okay, be thinking about the round animals. Because now I've

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Speaker 5: got the bad news. Okay, the bad news is the

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Speaker 5: rapture is coming today.

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Speaker 2: I've heard about their Somlia.

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Speaker 1: Get your affairs in order.

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Speaker 5: People are apparently selling their houses, which confuses me because

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Speaker 5: if the rapture's coming, why do you need to sell

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Speaker 5: your house. But anyway, that's what they're doing. They're quitting

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Speaker 5: their jobs, they're packing up their pets. And it all

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Speaker 5: started because a South African evangelical pastor whose name is

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Speaker 5: Joshua Malacala insisted that the world is going to be

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Speaker 5: ending on September twenty three, twenty four. We're not quite sure.

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Speaker 2: Which apparently with Australian time difference twenty four twenty fifth,

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Speaker 2: which is today or tomorrow. Yes, so, Ameilia, the rapture

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Speaker 2: is correct me if I'm wrong. The idea is that

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Speaker 2: what happens is holy, but it's like Jesus comes back

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Speaker 2: and takes all the good people. Is that the shortcut?

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Speaker 1: It's not good for you and it's goods fine.

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Speaker 2: Imagine if we came into work tomorrow, and Jesse was

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Speaker 2: just gone, like her chair was empty, her cup was

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Speaker 2: undrunk from like, you know, her sandwich wrapper was just there.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna leave my clothes behind, so it looks like

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Speaker 3: I've just descended.

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Speaker 2: And we were like, we were laughing about this. Imagine.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I really liked the TikTok of the woman. There's

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Speaker 3: a lot of people explaining to people in their lives

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Speaker 3: how to survive without them after.

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Speaker 2: The wrapper because they're going up.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, a wife.

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Speaker 3: Being like, I know, I'm going like absolutely, I've lived

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Speaker 3: a moral, good life. But she's explaining to her husband

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Speaker 3: how to do things when she's off. You've got to

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Speaker 3: be outside, I think, to ascend. But her husband she's

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Speaker 3: going this.

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Speaker 4: Are you sorry, You've got to be outside?

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Speaker 1: Gonna hit the roof?

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Speaker 5: Familiar?

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, Jesus sorted that out.

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Speaker 4: No, you have to wait outside on your doors.

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Speaker 2: Really worried about all these people sitting outside waiting for

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Speaker 2: this to happen, and then if it doesn't happen, how

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Speaker 2: they're going to get on with their lives on Thursday's.

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Speaker 4: An embarrassing next day.

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Speaker 3: There are some TikTok trends where it's going like they

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Speaker 3: go through celebrities and who would ascend and who would not?

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Speaker 3: So I would obviously ascend the Irwins, they say absolutely,

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Speaker 3: But then the theory is Chris Hemsworth would ascend, but

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Speaker 3: Liam Hemsworth wouldn't, which feels mean that me.

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Speaker 1: And what about all the celebrities named Chris, I wonder

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Speaker 1: which is.

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Speaker 4: I know, I think it would be very very selective.

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Speaker 4: You couldn't have them.

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Speaker 1: All Chris Pine for sure.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And what they've done as well is that people are saying, yeah, look,

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Speaker 3: if you're going to ascend, just leave all your designer

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Speaker 3: items on your front port because they can be for

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Speaker 3: the scavengers who are left like you, Holly.

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Speaker 2: Ah. Is it too late for me to make it

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Speaker 2: onto the vulture escalator because I feel like things are

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Speaker 2: hard down here at the minute. I want to be

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Speaker 2: up there singing to me Pedro Pascale's whispering, scoreless gossip

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Speaker 2: in my ear.

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Speaker 4: I'll give you my carcays, Holly, I'm not gonna need

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Speaker 4: my car anymore.

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Speaker 2: That's true.

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Speaker 5: You can jump onto hashtag rapture talk if you want

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Speaker 5: to learn more.

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Speaker 3: I was shocked yesterday at how much an announcement from

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Speaker 3: the White House ruined my day because this actually isn't

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Speaker 3: a story about Trump or RFK Junior. It's a story

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Speaker 3: about women who have been, are currently or will one

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Speaker 3: day be pregnant. It's a story about people with an

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Speaker 3: autism diagnosis. It's a story about the blame that we

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Speaker 3: always apportioned to mothers. And it's also a story about misinformation,

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Speaker 3: scientific rigor, and expertise.

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Speaker 4: Deep breath, you might remember that.

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Speaker 2: My whole thing is like, I'm not going to be

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Speaker 2: troubled anymore by the craziness that's coming out of my

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to be ferries en by this. But

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Speaker 2: it's hard on this one. It's hard.

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Speaker 3: You might remember President Donald Trump at Charlie Kirk's memorial

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Speaker 3: service took that opportunity to say, I think we found

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Speaker 3: an answer to autism.

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Speaker 2: He teased us, just like.

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Speaker 3: You did at the beginning of this leaf out of

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Speaker 3: Trump's book, and he ta used us, and he said,

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Speaker 3: I've got a big announcement coming well on Monday, US time,

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Speaker 3: Trump staged a press conference, and here's a little bit

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Speaker 3: of what he said.

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Speaker 6: First, effective immediately, the FDA will be notifying physicians at

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Speaker 6: the use of I said, well, let's see how we

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Speaker 6: say that. A said menefin acetamnefin I said, okay, which

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Speaker 6: is basically commonly known as thailand all during pregnancy can

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Speaker 6: be associated with a very increased risk of autism. For

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Speaker 6: this reason, they are strongly recommending that women limit us

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Speaker 6: during pregnancy unless medically necessary. That's, for instance, in cases

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Speaker 6: of extremely high fever that you feel you can't tough

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Speaker 6: it out, you can't do it.

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Speaker 1: I guess there's that.

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Speaker 6: It's a small number of cases, I think, But if

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Speaker 6: you can't tough it out, if you can't do it.

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Speaker 2: What a coherent and clear announcement about something so important.

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Speaker 4: He sounds so well prepared now.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad he was so well prepared.

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Speaker 3: Now in Australia, the generic name for the medication he's

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Speaker 3: talking about is paracetamol. Right, and Trump's announcement prompted a

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Speaker 3: swift response from experts all over the world. In the

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Speaker 3: United States, it was the American Academy of Obstetricians and

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Speaker 3: Gynecologists who said, in more than two decades of research,

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Speaker 3: not a single reputable study has successfully concluded that the

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Speaker 3: use of this drug in any trimester of pregnancy causes

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Speaker 3: neurodevelopmental disorders in children in Australia, the Therapeutic Goods Administration,

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Speaker 3: the Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists,

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Speaker 3: including every other reputable source of medical information, release statements

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Speaker 3: assuring women that there is no link between paracetamol use

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Speaker 3: in pregnancy and autism or ADHD. I could go into

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Speaker 3: the studies, I'm not going to do that. We have

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Speaker 3: an incredibly comprehensive episode of The Quickie Drop this morning.

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Speaker 3: Highly recommend you listen to that. But Holly, what I

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Speaker 3: want to know is why this has struck such a

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Speaker 3: chord and why it feels particularly sinister, Like health misinformation

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Speaker 3: is not new, there's nothing new about this. There's nothing unprecedented.

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Speaker 3: There's not even anything particularly surprising, but it feels sinister.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it partly feels sinister because of the

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Speaker 2: delivery mechanism. I mean, when we just played that clip,

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Speaker 2: you know, this is the President of the United States,

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Speaker 2: and whatever you think about him, that is a seat

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Speaker 2: of enormous power, getting the entire world's media pretty much

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Speaker 2: to turn their cameras on him for him to make

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Speaker 2: a confusing incoherent, fearmongering announcement that is then immediately refuted

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Speaker 2: by all these reputable organizations, as you've said, Jesse, but

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Speaker 2: the damage is done. That announcement just sets off an

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Speaker 2: explosion of shame and self loathing and panic and worry

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Speaker 2: lots of different groups of people, as you've already you said,

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Speaker 2: obviously women of childbearing age and pregnant women, but people

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Speaker 2: with autism, because what Trump was essentially saying was autism

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Speaker 2: is terrible and it should be eradicated. That's a whole

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Speaker 2: thing that upsets an enormous number of people to say

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Speaker 2: that women are somehow weak and selfish if they are

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Speaker 2: addressing pain, wanting even to address pain and pregnancy, not

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Speaker 2: toughing it out, and that whatever stage of all that

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Speaker 2: you're at, And obviously I have lived experience here. I

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Speaker 2: don't want to go into it in detail, but I've

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Speaker 2: sat in those rooms and heard those diagnoses that this

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Speaker 2: is your fault. Any difficult things that are coming your way,

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Speaker 2: for either yourself or your child, it's.

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Speaker 4: Your fault and your own selfishness.

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Speaker 2: It's your selfish. And so no one would suggest that

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Speaker 2: we should suppress any scientific evidence or findings to spare

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Speaker 2: people's feelings, So I don't mean to sit here and

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Speaker 2: go that makes me feel bad. So we shouldn't learn

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Speaker 2: about autism and the causes of autism. That is not

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Speaker 2: what I'm saying, or I think what anybody is saying.

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Speaker 2: But it's just so enormously irresponsible, Am I right, Amelia?

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Speaker 2: Is it enormously irresponsible? Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Other presidents have dispensed health advice. So President Eisenhower recommended

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Speaker 5: the polio vaccine. Barack Obama suggested people should quit smoking.

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Speaker 5: But I think what's different about this is that he

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Speaker 5: has departed from the entire medical establishment. And the reason

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Speaker 5: that it catches on with people is because there's a

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Speaker 5: vacuum of information right now about a perception that autism

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Speaker 5: rates a rising in the population. And because there's that

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Speaker 5: perception and the medical establishment hasn't yet figured out the

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Speaker 5: no doubt complex causes for why this is or even

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Speaker 5: if this is the case, people seese on a definite

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Speaker 5: answer from someone, even if he doesn't know what he's

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Speaker 5: talking about.

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Speaker 4: I mean, and you can fact check so much of

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Speaker 4: what he says.

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Speaker 3: But I posted something on Instagram about it yesterday, and

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Speaker 3: the messages I got back from women who broke d

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Speaker 3: during pregnancy. That's what pregnancy did to them, the worst

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Speaker 3: migraines of your life. I got COVID and the flu

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Speaker 3: at like thirty five weeks pregnant, had a terrible fever.

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Speaker 3: And what I didn't know before that pregnancy was the

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Speaker 3: list of medicines I couldn't take, not just medicines, things

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Speaker 3: you can't do, things you can't eat. Like to suggest

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Speaker 3: that women are ever flippant about anything they put in

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Speaker 3: their bodies, on their bodies during pregnancy is so infuriating,

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Speaker 3: and that the experience of pregnancy in and of itself

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Speaker 3: is an exercise in toughing it out, Like you get

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Speaker 3: the flu, like there's virtually nothing you can take, and

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Speaker 3: all these experts have come out and said fever can

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Speaker 3: be dangerous for babies, and that's why we recommend getting

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Speaker 3: the fever down.

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Speaker 4: I'm not a doctor.

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Speaker 3: Speak to your doctor if that's an experience you're having,

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Speaker 3: but that's putting a lot of pregnant women in danger

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Speaker 3: to basically say don't take this medicine when your doctor's,

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Speaker 3: your obstetricians, your midwives are saying the opposite.

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Speaker 1: And the reason why people are going.

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Speaker 5: To be really confused by this in particular is because

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Speaker 5: we don't know a lot about pregnancy, and one reason

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Speaker 5: for that is that you can't conduct to studies on

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Speaker 5: pregnant women for obvious reasons, and then you layer on

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Speaker 5: the misinformation and it starts to be a really dangerous stew.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because there are drugs, a doctor will often say

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Speaker 3: to you, we just don't know, so we're not going

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Speaker 3: to let you have that. To suggest that the medical

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Speaker 3: institution is an erring on the side of caution at

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Speaker 3: all times is just so irresponsible, And it's the endangering

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Speaker 3: I think that made me so angry, and also the

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Speaker 3: suggestion that there is this selfishness within pregnant women, or

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Speaker 3: this haphazard response to putting things in your body that

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Speaker 3: is causing long term damage, which is the wrong word anyway,

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Speaker 3: when we all know people who live with autism who

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Speaker 3: were incredible like as though it's some kind of disease

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Speaker 3: rather than a disorder that millions of people around the

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Speaker 3: world are diagnosed with and have always had as well.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that's saddling my brain about this

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Speaker 2: is that I'm old enough to remember Jenny McCarthy going

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Speaker 2: on the Oprah Wimfrey show, yep, a couple of decades ago.

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Speaker 2: Now probably that interview. Really see it in my mind,

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Speaker 2: I must have watched it in real time where she

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Speaker 2: told a story about my child. At the time, she'd

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Speaker 2: been an actress and MTV presenter, like she was a

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Speaker 2: cool girl, and then she became like a real crunchymum

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Speaker 2: pin up for a while and she went on the

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Speaker 2: opera Woinfroy Show. And I see it in my memory,

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Speaker 2: this story I took my kid to get their vaccine

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Speaker 2: and then immediately, like the next day, that kid was

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Speaker 2: completely different and it changed everything. Now that was seen

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Speaker 2: as a moment of enormous irresponsibility on the side of

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Speaker 2: the media to be immediately bandying about all this misinformation.

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Speaker 2: But in the period of time since, we have learned

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Speaker 2: so much, and that message has been discredited so many times,

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Speaker 2: and we've seen this always this sort of underground hum

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Speaker 2: of skepticism around that, but every credible medical organization has

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Speaker 2: pushed back. And it feels like here we are a

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Speaker 2: couple of decades later and the President of the United

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Speaker 2: States standing up there and apart from his directive, he

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Speaker 2: spoke broadly and coherently about the kind of vaccines, babies

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Speaker 2: get how there's just too much liquid in those syringes

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Speaker 2: for them. He just went on and on about all

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Speaker 2: of these really dangerous, disproven things. You know, there are

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Speaker 2: people in my life who are very across this kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff, and I've already heard about these rumors and

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Speaker 2: already seen that it was disproven all these things. But

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Speaker 2: most of us are just busy and getting on with things.

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Speaker 2: And pregnancy is one of those moments in your life

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Speaker 2: where suddenly you have to learn about health and science

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Speaker 2: and if you're not a person who knows about that,

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Speaker 2: so we just have these little drops of buzzes and

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Speaker 2: information and oh, I remember hearing something on Oprah once

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Speaker 2: about vaccines. I remember hearing something about blah blah blah.

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Speaker 2: And if that's most of us, what's just happened with

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Speaker 2: this high profile misinformation dump is so many people will

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Speaker 2: just go, oh, well, that's true. There are a lot

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Speaker 2: of pregnant women or women who've been pregnant, and I'd

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Speaker 2: put myself in this bucket. Who are going, wait, did

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Speaker 2: I take paracenamol when I was pregnant or did I not?

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Speaker 2: Oh my god? And then thinking about whatever difficulties or

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Speaker 2: hurdles their kids might have and thinking it's all on me.

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Speaker 4: You already think it's all on you regardless.

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Speaker 2: I just I find it befuddling, as you can probably

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Speaker 2: tell by my incoherent response. But I just want to

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Speaker 2: send love and solidarity, I really do, to autistic people

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Speaker 2: who are copying it over this, to the people who

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Speaker 2: support them, to the pregnant women who are wondering what

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Speaker 2: the hell they're supposed to do now. I just think

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Speaker 2: this is an incredibly difficult time, And of course, if

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Speaker 2: you are worried and confused, talk to an actual doctor.

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Speaker 2: As Jesse said, the health professionals know what they're talking about.

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Speaker 1: In a moment, your phone, your life, and.

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Speaker 5: A controversial theory about how they're connected. I saw a

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Speaker 5: headline this week which made me stop in my tracks.

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Speaker 5: Now that happens a lot these days, but this one

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Speaker 5: was about my phone. It was on the wire cutter

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Speaker 5: and it read stop charging your phone to one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: What fed especially when you first get it. I thought

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Speaker 2: that was the point. It was like you have to

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Speaker 2: have it to one hundred percent.

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Speaker 5: I thought that was like phone hygiene, Yeah, like flossing,

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Speaker 5: Like you gotta charge your phone overnight to one hundred percent. No,

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Speaker 5: the wire cutter said that over time, charging your phone

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Speaker 5: all the way can weaken your battery and cause it

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Speaker 5: to lose its charge much faster. Instead, charge it somewhere

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Speaker 5: in the range of twenty to eighty percent.

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Speaker 2: Twenty percent, you'd be living on the edge. What kind

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Speaker 2: of risk taking adrenaline junkie is running around with their

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Speaker 2: phone only for charge to twenty.

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Speaker 1: The kind who's also running around looking for a charger

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Speaker 1: at work.

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Speaker 5: So apparently on your phone, if it's a your model,

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Speaker 5: you can just like make it do this automatically stop

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Speaker 5: at eighty percent. I haven't done this because it feels

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Speaker 5: wrong to me and I'm not ready to do it.

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Speaker 5: I'm just simply not ready to do it.

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Speaker 2: You're not following the sciences points on other things important

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Speaker 2: medical information. Yes, the viber off on this anent.

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Speaker 1: The vibe off it? Do you get me thinking?

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Speaker 3: Though?

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Speaker 5: Because there was something about that idea of don't charge

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Speaker 5: your phone to one hundred percent?

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Speaker 1: I wondered whether we could apply it more broadly, like

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Speaker 1: not just to phones. Should we be avoiding one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent charge in life?

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Speaker 3: I feel as though it's better if my body never

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Speaker 3: knows what one hundred percent feels like, so I try

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Speaker 3: and keep it in seventy to eighty.

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Speaker 1: I've got some examples.

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Speaker 5: Think about when you go to bed early and then

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Speaker 5: you wake up the next week kind of groggy because

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Speaker 5: you slept too much.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yep, yep.

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Speaker 5: Or think about how a forty minute now you wake

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Speaker 5: up and you feel really discombobulated. A twenty minute nap,

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Speaker 5: you're ready to go.

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Speaker 2: Ten to fifteen is the sweet spot for a nap

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Speaker 2: in my experience.

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Speaker 4: Oh no, micronapp, I have two hour naps.

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Speaker 5: Really, yeah, that's charging your fine to one hundred, But.

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Speaker 3: I don't feel good after. To be clear, I feel

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Speaker 3: this when I eat broccoli. I've been talking about how

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Speaker 3: I've been eating vegetables lately, and I think you don't

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Speaker 3: want to eat too healthy because you don't want your

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Speaker 3: body to expect it. You don't want your body to

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Speaker 3: grow accustomed to only eating vegetables. So then you get

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Speaker 3: some hot chips because you're like, this way, my body's

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Speaker 3: just ready for what's going to come, Like, I don't

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Speaker 3: want to give it a shock when my real life

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Speaker 3: starts up again.

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Do you think it applies

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Speaker 2: to effort Amelia.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so I think that sometimes I go to work

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Speaker 5: and I've had too much coffee, and I give one

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Speaker 5: hundred percent and then people yourself, yeah, and they say

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Speaker 5: that I'm quote unquote overwhelming, and I try not to

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Speaker 5: do it anymore because people just start to back away.

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Speaker 5: So now at work, I aim for about seventy five.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And you also you don't want to raise people's

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Speaker 3: expectations firstly, and also you don't want to burn out,

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Speaker 3: no exactly, And if you're aiming for one hundred percent

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Speaker 3: all day, I feel as though what I have in

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Speaker 3: my life is one hundred percent moments where I can

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Speaker 3: give one hundred percent for forty five minutes, or like

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Speaker 3: if I go to the gym, I'll try and give

435
00:21:28,341 --> 00:21:30,621
Speaker 3: one hundred percent for literally one minute, and I'll just

436
00:21:30,661 --> 00:21:31,701
Speaker 3: like see that because I.

437
00:21:31,742 --> 00:21:34,061
Speaker 1: Do a high intensity interval tree.

438
00:21:33,942 --> 00:21:35,542
Speaker 3: Every now and then, I try to get my heart

439
00:21:35,621 --> 00:21:37,302
Speaker 3: right out really hard for a minute.

440
00:21:37,061 --> 00:21:37,901
Speaker 1: I do.

441
00:21:38,101 --> 00:21:39,622
Speaker 4: I'm going to give it a little bit.

442
00:21:40,061 --> 00:21:41,701
Speaker 3: But the thing is, if you wanted to give one

443
00:21:41,782 --> 00:21:43,302
Speaker 3: hundred percent every time you went to the gym, you'd

444
00:21:43,302 --> 00:21:45,101
Speaker 3: never go to the gym because that's just daunting. So

445
00:21:45,141 --> 00:21:48,661
Speaker 3: you've got to understand that when you go, you only really.

446
00:21:48,422 --> 00:21:49,702
Speaker 4: Need to be giving it seventy percent.

447
00:21:49,982 --> 00:21:52,621
Speaker 2: I'd set on my exercise bike and I am giving

448
00:21:52,661 --> 00:21:57,821
Speaker 2: it thirty eight. And I'm saying to myself, well, at

449
00:21:57,901 --> 00:22:00,422
Speaker 2: least i'm here, it's better than not being here at all.

450
00:22:00,782 --> 00:22:04,022
Speaker 2: But someone on TikTok is nearly always telling me that's

451
00:22:04,061 --> 00:22:06,782
Speaker 2: not true. They are always telling me, if you're not

452
00:22:06,901 --> 00:22:09,542
Speaker 2: killing yourself and sweating your guts out, what are you

453
00:22:09,661 --> 00:22:11,702
Speaker 2: even do it here? And I'm like, no, no, no.

454
00:22:11,702 --> 00:22:13,302
Speaker 2: Now that Amelia has told me this, I'm going to.

455
00:22:13,302 --> 00:22:13,782
Speaker 1: Say you.

456
00:22:16,141 --> 00:22:18,542
Speaker 2: And I need to get into your settings and sort

457
00:22:18,581 --> 00:22:20,661
Speaker 2: you out. Pushing back down to a thirty eight.

458
00:22:20,502 --> 00:22:22,341
Speaker 4: Can make out a battery at two pm.

459
00:22:22,542 --> 00:22:24,061
Speaker 5: I'm going to take it to the next level this

460
00:22:24,222 --> 00:22:27,701
Speaker 5: theory about battery and say, Mia has this concept that

461
00:22:27,742 --> 00:22:30,982
Speaker 5: I think about a lot called intimacy leaking. Yes, yep,

462
00:22:31,182 --> 00:22:34,221
Speaker 5: this idea that if you're in a romantic relationship with

463
00:22:34,302 --> 00:22:37,061
Speaker 5: someone a monogamous from romantic relationship, I guess is the

464
00:22:37,101 --> 00:22:39,621
Speaker 5: way to describe it here. And then you start telling

465
00:22:39,661 --> 00:22:42,542
Speaker 5: people in your life who are not your partner sort

466
00:22:42,581 --> 00:22:46,502
Speaker 5: of details of how you're truly feeling or really difficult

467
00:22:46,502 --> 00:22:50,702
Speaker 5: things you're struggling with. You're leaking intimacy from your relationship.

468
00:22:51,381 --> 00:22:53,141
Speaker 5: And I'm thinking of this as kind of like a

469
00:22:53,141 --> 00:22:55,781
Speaker 5: battery leak. You can't be giving too much of your

470
00:22:55,782 --> 00:22:58,621
Speaker 5: battery to other people. That's my extension of the wire

471
00:22:58,702 --> 00:22:59,461
Speaker 5: cutter theory.

472
00:22:59,742 --> 00:23:02,821
Speaker 1: Oh, like it's leaking out, it's leaking battery.

473
00:23:02,942 --> 00:23:04,901
Speaker 5: So I think you just got to be mindful of

474
00:23:04,942 --> 00:23:07,821
Speaker 5: where your battery's going as well, in addition to being

475
00:23:07,821 --> 00:23:09,502
Speaker 5: mindful of what level the batteries are.

476
00:23:09,821 --> 00:23:13,101
Speaker 2: Is like, let's have another analogy. Remember how Taylor Swift,

477
00:23:13,302 --> 00:23:16,422
Speaker 2: the Overlord of the Women of the World, made that

478
00:23:16,821 --> 00:23:20,581
Speaker 2: statement about how treat your energy like it's expressive. This

479
00:23:20,782 --> 00:23:25,581
Speaker 2: is kind of like that. So if I'm cleaning my kitchen, look,

480
00:23:25,942 --> 00:23:28,821
Speaker 2: forty two is plenty, Like forty two percent is plenty

481
00:23:28,861 --> 00:23:31,661
Speaker 2: as long as someone's getting yes, But I have to

482
00:23:31,742 --> 00:23:33,262
Speaker 2: scrub every little gap.

483
00:23:33,901 --> 00:23:36,421
Speaker 5: Child used all your battery on cleaning the kitchen, and

484
00:23:36,462 --> 00:23:38,141
Speaker 5: then your kids came home and you had nothing.

485
00:23:37,942 --> 00:23:40,982
Speaker 2: To yes exactly, but my energy is expensive. So when

486
00:23:40,982 --> 00:23:43,221
Speaker 2: the kid walks in the door, this theory is at

487
00:23:43,302 --> 00:23:47,542
Speaker 2: least i'd be and I say, so happy to see you, darling.

488
00:23:47,621 --> 00:23:49,982
Speaker 2: Did you have a wonderful day. I'm going to put

489
00:23:49,982 --> 00:23:52,942
Speaker 2: one hundred percent. Make sure you feel.

490
00:23:52,742 --> 00:23:54,941
Speaker 3: Now I'm going to couch that because I don't think

491
00:23:55,022 --> 00:23:57,061
Speaker 3: we should ever be giving one hundred percent to parenting,

492
00:23:57,101 --> 00:24:01,182
Speaker 3: because again, it's about expectations. You can't have them expect

493
00:24:01,581 --> 00:24:03,102
Speaker 3: that you're going to be cooking and clin.

494
00:24:03,262 --> 00:24:03,341
Speaker 2: No.

495
00:24:03,381 --> 00:24:05,901
Speaker 5: But I've got a theory about children in general. This

496
00:24:05,942 --> 00:24:09,222
Speaker 5: is not about parents. Tony Morrison once told Michelle Obama,

497
00:24:09,621 --> 00:24:11,581
Speaker 5: you get that, So this is a third hand I

498
00:24:11,581 --> 00:24:14,542
Speaker 5: didn't hear it from Why Live in Directly. She said

499
00:24:14,581 --> 00:24:17,982
Speaker 5: that whenever a child walks in the room, you must

500
00:24:18,581 --> 00:24:22,782
Speaker 5: beam and act extremely excited because all children expect that

501
00:24:22,821 --> 00:24:25,502
Speaker 5: when they enter a room. Adults like act like they're

502
00:24:25,542 --> 00:24:27,061
Speaker 5: a joy in a miracle, which they are.

503
00:24:27,182 --> 00:24:28,502
Speaker 2: Yeah, I support that scene.

504
00:24:28,782 --> 00:24:31,621
Speaker 1: And that's like at least five percent of your daily

505
00:24:31,661 --> 00:24:32,902
Speaker 1: battery on a child.

506
00:24:33,341 --> 00:24:35,621
Speaker 5: So if you're a teacher, I'm sorry, I don't know

507
00:24:35,661 --> 00:24:36,462
Speaker 5: how you're handling it.

508
00:24:36,742 --> 00:24:39,061
Speaker 2: Also, it depends on what base you're coming from, Like

509
00:24:39,101 --> 00:24:42,302
Speaker 2: if you're hungover or sick or exhausted, or your bosses

510
00:24:42,341 --> 00:24:46,022
Speaker 2: and then the child, then you're coming from five percent

511
00:24:46,061 --> 00:24:48,261
Speaker 2: to one hundred and that takes a lot like that.

512
00:24:48,821 --> 00:24:52,341
Speaker 4: Okay, I have another application, and it's to do with appearance.

513
00:24:52,702 --> 00:24:52,862
Speaker 1: Right.

514
00:24:53,502 --> 00:24:55,142
Speaker 4: Do you ever like you doing your makeup?

515
00:24:55,381 --> 00:24:55,982
Speaker 2: And you go, I.

516
00:24:55,942 --> 00:25:00,021
Speaker 3: Could, I could contour, I could give it one, but

517
00:25:00,101 --> 00:25:00,942
Speaker 3: my nose.

518
00:25:00,782 --> 00:25:03,102
Speaker 1: Is just going to be as wide as it actually.

519
00:25:02,982 --> 00:25:05,381
Speaker 4: Is today exactly. And you go, you know what, I

520
00:25:05,422 --> 00:25:07,782
Speaker 4: want to be relatable. I want them to like it.

521
00:25:08,341 --> 00:25:11,661
Speaker 3: If I look too good, then I'm going to walk

522
00:25:11,661 --> 00:25:13,782
Speaker 3: into work. I'm going to make everyone feel like she's Yeah.

523
00:25:13,821 --> 00:25:15,542
Speaker 2: See, this is a problem that clearly you are.

524
00:25:16,742 --> 00:25:17,501
Speaker 1: I have to live with it.

525
00:25:17,581 --> 00:25:20,141
Speaker 3: I have a friend who's too attractive, right, And we

526
00:25:20,141 --> 00:25:23,222
Speaker 3: were saying recently she wasn't there. There were just men

527
00:25:23,502 --> 00:25:25,861
Speaker 3: flocking to her, which is interesting because they didn't see us,

528
00:25:25,861 --> 00:25:28,061
Speaker 3: but they flocked to her, and we all said it

529
00:25:28,101 --> 00:25:29,141
Speaker 3: would be hard being.

530
00:25:28,982 --> 00:25:30,941
Speaker 4: That beautiful because it's distracting.

531
00:25:30,942 --> 00:25:33,381
Speaker 1: When you speak to the men flocking, it sounds like seagulls.

532
00:25:33,502 --> 00:25:35,581
Speaker 4: Yeah, we go out to dinner, she gets harassed.

533
00:25:35,982 --> 00:25:38,102
Speaker 2: Can she turn it down from herd I don't know.

534
00:25:38,182 --> 00:25:40,262
Speaker 3: And maybe she can turn it down to ninety, but

535
00:25:40,341 --> 00:25:42,901
Speaker 3: I can easily turn it to like an eighteen, and

536
00:25:42,982 --> 00:25:44,662
Speaker 3: I think that that is a superpower.

537
00:25:44,942 --> 00:25:48,701
Speaker 5: Final question low battery mode. What is the human equivalent

538
00:25:48,821 --> 00:25:50,981
Speaker 5: of low battery mode, which, by the way, feels like magic.

539
00:25:51,061 --> 00:25:52,941
Speaker 5: Every time I put on low battery mode, I'm like,

540
00:25:53,022 --> 00:25:55,141
Speaker 5: I just conducted a magic trick.

541
00:25:55,661 --> 00:25:59,262
Speaker 2: I know, closing all your tabs. It's closing all your tabs.

542
00:25:59,462 --> 00:26:02,462
Speaker 2: Low battery mode is what I've been operating in while

543
00:26:02,502 --> 00:26:04,421
Speaker 2: I've been poorly lately, and out Loud has been very

544
00:26:04,462 --> 00:26:07,061
Speaker 2: sick of I'm sure hearing about me being poorly. Actually,

545
00:26:07,061 --> 00:26:10,581
Speaker 2: this is true. People like to blame you for your illnesses,

546
00:26:10,621 --> 00:26:12,782
Speaker 2: don't they. So when I said to anyone lately, I've

547
00:26:12,782 --> 00:26:15,861
Speaker 2: had the flu, they've blamed it on one hundred percent theory.

548
00:26:15,942 --> 00:26:18,621
Speaker 2: They've said, no, I think about it. Oh, it's because

549
00:26:18,661 --> 00:26:23,741
Speaker 2: you worked too hard. I just caught the flu. Like,

550
00:26:23,861 --> 00:26:25,901
Speaker 2: I don't think it has anything to do with anything

551
00:26:25,942 --> 00:26:28,861
Speaker 2: other than that I caught a sickness.

552
00:26:28,942 --> 00:26:30,141
Speaker 4: You went to low power mode.

553
00:26:30,182 --> 00:26:32,581
Speaker 2: I went to low power mode for two weeks, very

554
00:26:32,581 --> 00:26:35,581
Speaker 2: little movement. Yes, if I was a fat bear, I

555
00:26:35,581 --> 00:26:38,662
Speaker 2: would have been eating a lot of salmon, but not

556
00:26:38,782 --> 00:26:42,742
Speaker 2: moving much, storing myself up, just barely raising the head

557
00:26:42,742 --> 00:26:45,742
Speaker 2: from the bed to smile winningly at the children when

558
00:26:45,782 --> 00:26:51,262
Speaker 2: they came royally. That was great. Low power mode was good.

559
00:26:51,422 --> 00:26:53,821
Speaker 4: You're doing everything to not just die.

560
00:26:54,022 --> 00:26:57,542
Speaker 2: Literally, I think that low power mode can get the

561
00:26:57,621 --> 00:27:00,782
Speaker 2: job done if needed. Jesse, why didn't you tell me

562
00:27:00,782 --> 00:27:03,101
Speaker 2: that Luca was running in the Berlin Marathon last weekend?

563
00:27:03,381 --> 00:27:04,981
Speaker 2: I saw him in the office on Monday and I

564
00:27:05,101 --> 00:27:08,741
Speaker 2: was like, how you in Berlin? Like? The reason I

565
00:27:08,782 --> 00:27:12,942
Speaker 2: ask is that my boyfriend, Harry Stoyles's and don't worry

566
00:27:13,022 --> 00:27:16,022
Speaker 2: out loud, it would be very inappropriate. Harry Styles was

567
00:27:16,061 --> 00:27:21,141
Speaker 2: my boyfriend, very inappropriate. But we all know I love him.

568
00:27:21,341 --> 00:27:23,581
Speaker 2: He ran the bill in marathon on the weekend, in

569
00:27:24,302 --> 00:27:25,861
Speaker 2: Marathon full marin.

570
00:27:26,141 --> 00:27:28,222
Speaker 1: It was a good time, right, six fifty.

571
00:27:28,542 --> 00:27:31,501
Speaker 2: Under three hours, which is a goal for many people.

572
00:27:31,901 --> 00:27:33,622
Speaker 2: This whole other thing about how much I love gap

573
00:27:33,661 --> 00:27:37,341
Speaker 2: here Harry Styles. But quite a lot of people when

574
00:27:37,381 --> 00:27:40,461
Speaker 2: Mom and Maya posted about this said they thought it

575
00:27:40,542 --> 00:27:43,422
Speaker 2: was Luca. That's the picture of Harry Styles is annoying.

576
00:27:43,581 --> 00:27:45,662
Speaker 2: The people generally thinking that Lucas.

577
00:27:45,341 --> 00:27:46,502
Speaker 4: Hast so annoying.

578
00:27:46,581 --> 00:27:49,302
Speaker 3: Look, someone said it before and then we've never brought

579
00:27:49,302 --> 00:27:51,902
Speaker 3: it up again. But it is so annoying to make

580
00:27:51,942 --> 00:27:55,542
Speaker 3: that comparison, like it gives someone such a big hit Jersey.

581
00:27:55,821 --> 00:28:00,101
Speaker 5: Sorry, let's recap here. You've been told in recent weeks

582
00:28:00,101 --> 00:28:02,782
Speaker 5: you look like Sidney Sweeney. Luke has been Tory looks

583
00:28:02,821 --> 00:28:04,222
Speaker 5: like Harry Styles.

584
00:28:04,581 --> 00:28:05,022
Speaker 2: Yeah.

585
00:28:05,061 --> 00:28:07,222
Speaker 1: Look, did Luca love this Harry Styles thing?

586
00:28:07,222 --> 00:28:08,861
Speaker 5: And is he kind of bringing it up at like

587
00:28:08,942 --> 00:28:10,262
Speaker 5: inappropriate at moments?

588
00:28:10,341 --> 00:28:10,581
Speaker 1: Yeah?

589
00:28:10,621 --> 00:28:12,141
Speaker 4: And look I can kind of see it.

590
00:28:12,222 --> 00:28:14,581
Speaker 3: He's got a headband and some sunglasses on in a

591
00:28:14,581 --> 00:28:15,702
Speaker 3: little bit of facial hair.

592
00:28:15,742 --> 00:28:18,662
Speaker 4: But there's no way that Luke's running a marathon. It's

593
00:28:18,742 --> 00:28:19,302
Speaker 4: just not him.

594
00:28:19,381 --> 00:28:21,941
Speaker 2: I just love that Harry Styles. And I've been on

595
00:28:21,982 --> 00:28:23,981
Speaker 2: this podcast winging about how much I want a new

596
00:28:24,022 --> 00:28:27,542
Speaker 2: Harry Styles album. Harry Styles is just like I am

597
00:28:27,621 --> 00:28:29,741
Speaker 2: living my life. I want to know what it's like

598
00:28:29,782 --> 00:28:31,982
Speaker 2: to run a marathon. I'm dating Zoe Kravitz. Were in

599
00:28:32,061 --> 00:28:33,861
Speaker 2: Rome or in New York. We're in London where wherever

600
00:28:33,901 --> 00:28:36,222
Speaker 2: he is spending his money, he is having a great time.

601
00:28:36,821 --> 00:28:38,181
Speaker 2: Here is my new role model.

602
00:28:38,502 --> 00:28:41,221
Speaker 5: So with Zoe Kravitz, she is dating him, she is

603
00:28:41,302 --> 00:28:43,702
Speaker 5: dating him. There was some confusion that was.

604
00:28:43,661 --> 00:28:47,421
Speaker 2: The bait and switched the Austin what's his name, hot man, very.

605
00:28:47,262 --> 00:28:49,742
Speaker 4: Hot Austin Butler Australian.

606
00:28:50,102 --> 00:28:52,461
Speaker 2: No, he's not and he looks Australian, but he's not.

607
00:28:53,022 --> 00:28:54,982
Speaker 2: Everyone thought she was dating Austin Butler, but they were

608
00:28:55,022 --> 00:28:58,662
Speaker 2: just doing very good chemistry. For she is dating Harry Styles,

609
00:28:58,742 --> 00:29:00,702
Speaker 2: or at least she has been. And some people say

610
00:29:00,782 --> 00:29:02,742
Speaker 2: he had a fake name and everything in the marathon,

611
00:29:02,782 --> 00:29:05,741
Speaker 2: not that I've done a deep dive and she was

612
00:29:05,822 --> 00:29:08,862
Speaker 2: there and maybe also in cognito cheering him on. But

613
00:29:08,942 --> 00:29:10,742
Speaker 2: he is living his best life. And everyone's like, look

614
00:29:10,742 --> 00:29:13,822
Speaker 2: at Taylor Swift. She's released like twenty five albums since

615
00:29:13,862 --> 00:29:15,981
Speaker 2: you did Harry's House, Harry, get your shit together, And

616
00:29:16,022 --> 00:29:17,982
Speaker 2: I'm like, nah, I'm full respectful. I was going to

617
00:29:18,022 --> 00:29:19,062
Speaker 2: say them fat bear mode.

618
00:29:19,302 --> 00:29:21,142
Speaker 3: Well, I was going to say, he's definitely not taking

619
00:29:21,142 --> 00:29:22,582
Speaker 3: it to one hundred percent, but then I realize he

620
00:29:22,661 --> 00:29:25,382
Speaker 3: just ran a marathon, so you might shit.

621
00:29:26,022 --> 00:29:30,661
Speaker 2: Can you run a marathon in low power? After the break,

622
00:29:30,942 --> 00:29:34,102
Speaker 2: soft Pants be damned? Dressing for Work is.

623
00:29:34,102 --> 00:29:36,902
Speaker 4: Back one unlimited out loud access.

624
00:29:37,142 --> 00:29:41,221
Speaker 3: We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mum

625
00:29:41,302 --> 00:29:44,022
Speaker 3: and Me are subscribers. Follow the link in the show

626
00:29:44,022 --> 00:29:46,822
Speaker 3: notes to get us in your ears five days a week,

627
00:29:46,942 --> 00:29:53,382
Speaker 3: and a huge thank you to all our current subscribers, What.

628
00:29:53,302 --> 00:29:55,862
Speaker 2: Are you wearing right now? Out louders you want to

629
00:29:55,902 --> 00:29:57,941
Speaker 2: find out liking to imagine that. I don't think very

630
00:29:57,942 --> 00:29:59,542
Speaker 2: many of our louders are this, but you know how

631
00:29:59,661 --> 00:30:01,742
Speaker 2: there are all those bros who pretend they're working while

632
00:30:01,742 --> 00:30:04,982
Speaker 2: listening to their favorite podcasts. Yeah, or watching it on YouTube.

633
00:30:05,582 --> 00:30:07,781
Speaker 2: Maybe there are some outlouders doing that. If so, what

634
00:30:07,942 --> 00:30:11,701
Speaker 2: is your current worker tire? Because apparently the mass return

635
00:30:11,782 --> 00:30:14,542
Speaker 2: to office work in Australia we're judged to be at

636
00:30:14,582 --> 00:30:18,942
Speaker 2: about seventy seven percent from pre COVID levels.

637
00:30:18,622 --> 00:30:21,182
Speaker 4: Of as in back to the office full time.

638
00:30:21,422 --> 00:30:23,382
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know how much the back to the

639
00:30:23,422 --> 00:30:27,542
Speaker 2: office conversation anoys, teachers, nurses, doctors, you know, retail workers.

640
00:30:27,582 --> 00:30:29,942
Speaker 2: I know this not everybody, but this is about people

641
00:30:29,982 --> 00:30:33,502
Speaker 2: who pre COVID were in office were apparently about seventy

642
00:30:33,582 --> 00:30:36,102
Speaker 2: seven percent return, So lots of back to the office

643
00:30:36,342 --> 00:30:39,062
Speaker 2: and apparently what's come with this is a bit of

644
00:30:39,062 --> 00:30:41,701
Speaker 2: pearl clutching about the fact that a lot of people

645
00:30:41,742 --> 00:30:43,902
Speaker 2: don't know how to dress for the office anymore and

646
00:30:43,982 --> 00:30:46,782
Speaker 2: we are in a full return to corporate ware. Listen

647
00:30:46,902 --> 00:30:50,262
Speaker 2: to this. It's a collection of mostly female managers having

648
00:30:50,302 --> 00:30:53,502
Speaker 2: a winge about their mostly younger colleagues what they're wearing

649
00:30:53,502 --> 00:30:56,662
Speaker 2: to the office. They had an assistant show up tour

650
00:30:57,022 --> 00:30:58,942
Speaker 2: in joggers, no makeup.

651
00:30:59,062 --> 00:31:01,022
Speaker 4: She sat down at the table to begin working.

652
00:31:01,182 --> 00:31:05,622
Speaker 5: I instantly had this gut reaction of no, this doesn't represent.

653
00:31:05,222 --> 00:31:07,102
Speaker 2: Our client who we are becoming.

654
00:31:07,262 --> 00:31:09,421
Speaker 5: It didn't work for me, and from that day forward,

655
00:31:09,542 --> 00:31:11,782
Speaker 5: I have enforced this dress code, not only for my

656
00:31:11,942 --> 00:31:13,262
Speaker 5: team but for myself.

657
00:31:13,302 --> 00:31:15,382
Speaker 1: When I get dressed for my top client every day,

658
00:31:15,422 --> 00:31:16,102
Speaker 1: even though I'm.

659
00:31:15,942 --> 00:31:20,382
Speaker 5: Seeing no one potentially but my team, it improves productivity.

660
00:31:20,462 --> 00:31:21,982
Speaker 1: There is it's neuroscience fact.

661
00:31:22,142 --> 00:31:24,981
Speaker 4: You're going to have a more successful day. You're telling

662
00:31:25,022 --> 00:31:27,622
Speaker 4: your body in your mind you are here to work.

663
00:31:27,862 --> 00:31:31,102
Speaker 2: It occurs to me that some of you have not

664
00:31:31,382 --> 00:31:34,302
Speaker 2: or do not have a grown up telling you how

665
00:31:34,342 --> 00:31:36,342
Speaker 2: to dress in the workplace.

666
00:31:36,622 --> 00:31:39,302
Speaker 7: I just wanted to talk about your outfit today.

667
00:31:39,422 --> 00:31:40,981
Speaker 1: Okay, what about it.

668
00:31:41,222 --> 00:31:44,342
Speaker 7: We have a huge client meeting today, a customer worth

669
00:31:44,502 --> 00:31:48,221
Speaker 7: a lot of money who's expecting like the utmost professionalism,

670
00:31:48,462 --> 00:31:52,342
Speaker 7: and some people on your team really not comfortable with

671
00:31:52,382 --> 00:31:53,342
Speaker 7: what you're wearing today.

672
00:31:53,582 --> 00:31:56,622
Speaker 2: So that's a collection of tiktoks and reels from Australia

673
00:31:56,622 --> 00:32:00,022
Speaker 2: and America of basically bosses bitching about the fact that

674
00:32:00,062 --> 00:32:04,022
Speaker 2: nobody knows how to dress anymore. Now that's why you're seeing.

675
00:32:04,342 --> 00:32:06,421
Speaker 2: I'm certainly seeing on my social's lots of what I

676
00:32:06,462 --> 00:32:09,542
Speaker 2: watered the office reels right, lots of people putting together

677
00:32:09,582 --> 00:32:13,701
Speaker 2: their fashion and Vogue Australia declares that business casual is

678
00:32:13,702 --> 00:32:17,102
Speaker 2: dead and we're now into corporate core and there are

679
00:32:17,142 --> 00:32:19,542
Speaker 2: all these different trends with it that go office siren,

680
00:32:19,622 --> 00:32:23,342
Speaker 2: corp core, corporate fetish. Dressing for work is back. But

681
00:32:23,462 --> 00:32:25,822
Speaker 2: don't tell Emily Vernon because I checked in with her

682
00:32:25,862 --> 00:32:29,302
Speaker 2: today about this. I said, Duhl, did you dress for

683
00:32:29,342 --> 00:32:31,502
Speaker 2: work today? And you know what she said? She said,

684
00:32:31,582 --> 00:32:34,302
Speaker 2: I'm literally wearing see through linen pants that I may

685
00:32:34,422 --> 00:32:37,782
Speaker 2: or may not have slept it. I think that illustrates

686
00:32:37,862 --> 00:32:41,262
Speaker 2: the problem here, friends, are we dressing for work?

687
00:32:41,661 --> 00:32:44,462
Speaker 3: It is so funny because you put this in yesterday

688
00:32:44,822 --> 00:32:47,302
Speaker 3: like a story about this, and at almost exactly the

689
00:32:47,302 --> 00:32:49,181
Speaker 3: same time, I got a message in one of my

690
00:32:49,222 --> 00:32:52,582
Speaker 3: biggest group chats from someone saying apparently I have to

691
00:32:52,661 --> 00:32:53,422
Speaker 3: dress corporate.

692
00:32:53,822 --> 00:32:55,022
Speaker 4: Where is everyone shopping?

693
00:32:55,302 --> 00:32:57,261
Speaker 3: And I was like, I have not seen that question

694
00:32:57,902 --> 00:32:59,782
Speaker 3: in such a long time, and it made me think

695
00:32:59,782 --> 00:33:02,262
Speaker 3: about a few things. The first is that if you've

696
00:33:02,302 --> 00:33:04,862
Speaker 3: been working a few days in the office, the difference

697
00:33:04,862 --> 00:33:07,782
Speaker 3: between two or three and five is an entire wardrobe

698
00:33:07,862 --> 00:33:09,942
Speaker 3: you need five, or you feel like you need five

699
00:33:09,982 --> 00:33:12,502
Speaker 3: different outfits or at least different things to put together.

700
00:33:12,862 --> 00:33:14,981
Speaker 3: The other is a change of season, is that it

701
00:33:15,062 --> 00:33:17,902
Speaker 3: might be the first warm season that you've looked around

702
00:33:17,982 --> 00:33:20,142
Speaker 3: and gone, how do you dress for warm?

703
00:33:20,302 --> 00:33:21,902
Speaker 4: In the corporate vibe?

704
00:33:22,382 --> 00:33:24,982
Speaker 3: But then I tried to find evidence of this, and

705
00:33:25,222 --> 00:33:29,542
Speaker 3: I was looking at data about the term relaxed dress,

706
00:33:29,942 --> 00:33:34,461
Speaker 3: and apparently in Australian job postings it's up. So a

707
00:33:34,542 --> 00:33:38,622
Speaker 3: lot of sectors are saying that they're encouraging relaxed dress,

708
00:33:38,742 --> 00:33:41,542
Speaker 3: especially in the Act and Queensland.

709
00:33:42,022 --> 00:33:44,862
Speaker 4: The theory is that it's influenced from the tech sector.

710
00:33:45,142 --> 00:33:48,022
Speaker 3: So because the tech sector has always been about pushing

711
00:33:48,062 --> 00:33:51,542
Speaker 3: against office norms. Think about your friends who work for

712
00:33:51,702 --> 00:33:54,502
Speaker 3: kind of really hip, techy places and they just wear

713
00:33:54,542 --> 00:33:59,142
Speaker 3: jeans and sneakers or whatever. Apparently that has leaked into accounting, legal,

714
00:33:59,222 --> 00:34:03,822
Speaker 3: banking and finance it and there's been an increasing casualization

715
00:34:03,982 --> 00:34:05,142
Speaker 3: of how people.

716
00:34:04,942 --> 00:34:07,102
Speaker 2: But that's why there's a pushback on it now.

717
00:34:08,661 --> 00:34:10,742
Speaker 1: Right, well, I smell a rap.

718
00:34:11,142 --> 00:34:14,462
Speaker 5: I think the reason why this discussion is kind of

719
00:34:14,502 --> 00:34:19,542
Speaker 5: seemingly surfacing organically on TikTok and elsewhere is because employers

720
00:34:19,622 --> 00:34:23,302
Speaker 5: are unhappy with hybrid work and they want to change

721
00:34:23,342 --> 00:34:25,622
Speaker 5: the game, and they think that if they get people

722
00:34:25,661 --> 00:34:26,622
Speaker 5: to buy enough.

723
00:34:26,462 --> 00:34:29,782
Speaker 1: Clothes, they'll become more happy about going into.

724
00:34:29,582 --> 00:34:32,381
Speaker 2: Lim somewhere to wear them to exactly.

725
00:34:32,542 --> 00:34:34,902
Speaker 5: So I think it's also especially a story about the

726
00:34:34,942 --> 00:34:38,502
Speaker 5: corporate sector, because yeah, the point about tech is well taken.

727
00:34:38,502 --> 00:34:40,982
Speaker 5: They've always dressed a bit differently. But look at the

728
00:34:41,022 --> 00:34:43,022
Speaker 5: fact that the staff at the big four banks in

729
00:34:43,062 --> 00:34:45,942
Speaker 5: Australia have all been called back to work full time.

730
00:34:46,422 --> 00:34:50,582
Speaker 5: Also tab Corp and then Mineral Resources, that company in

731
00:34:50,622 --> 00:34:52,781
Speaker 5: Perth where the CEO said he wanted to hold the

732
00:34:52,822 --> 00:34:56,502
Speaker 5: staff captive. The staff are captive. They're back at work.

733
00:34:56,661 --> 00:34:59,462
Speaker 5: So I think smart casual that in the corporate sector

734
00:34:59,502 --> 00:35:03,341
Speaker 5: there's this real sense of we're paying you enough, why

735
00:35:03,382 --> 00:35:05,582
Speaker 5: aren't you here five days a week? And they think

736
00:35:05,622 --> 00:35:08,661
Speaker 5: that clothing is kind of the incentive to get people back.

737
00:35:08,661 --> 00:35:10,821
Speaker 2: Because as that piece in Vogue was saying that like

738
00:35:10,862 --> 00:35:14,261
Speaker 2: they're make trying to make corporate wear sexy. So it's

739
00:35:14,342 --> 00:35:16,622
Speaker 2: all about trying to appear like that. This is great.

740
00:35:16,701 --> 00:35:18,582
Speaker 2: This is a whole vibe to be coming out of

741
00:35:18,582 --> 00:35:21,341
Speaker 2: the office, getting dressed up, being sharp, and that what

742
00:35:21,462 --> 00:35:23,861
Speaker 2: I'm seeing. And you know, I don't speak fashion, I'm

743
00:35:23,862 --> 00:35:25,382
Speaker 2: not mere, but what I'm seeing in a lot of

744
00:35:25,382 --> 00:35:29,341
Speaker 2: these videos is lots of tailored pants, maybe a waistcoat

745
00:35:29,542 --> 00:35:31,502
Speaker 2: if you're like a hot thing who can have your arms.

746
00:35:31,622 --> 00:35:35,261
Speaker 2: Lots of draped blazer yet lots of blazers, heels seem

747
00:35:35,302 --> 00:35:37,742
Speaker 2: to be back, a bit of a pointed toe seems

748
00:35:37,741 --> 00:35:38,022
Speaker 2: to be.

749
00:35:37,982 --> 00:35:40,262
Speaker 1: Back officially pointed toes, back.

750
00:35:41,022 --> 00:35:44,181
Speaker 2: Slicked back hair. I think about and we've talked about

751
00:35:44,181 --> 00:35:46,221
Speaker 2: her on the show before, but you know, some of

752
00:35:46,261 --> 00:35:49,021
Speaker 2: the iconic girl bosses of the moment, like Emma Greed,

753
00:35:49,062 --> 00:35:51,942
Speaker 2: we've talked about her before. She's the woman behind skims

754
00:35:51,942 --> 00:35:54,741
Speaker 2: and all of those. She posts every week things I

755
00:35:54,781 --> 00:35:57,421
Speaker 2: want to the office every week, and it's her coming

756
00:35:57,462 --> 00:36:00,542
Speaker 2: out of the office lift in ever more elegant clothes.

757
00:36:00,661 --> 00:36:03,462
Speaker 1: Are they corporate or are they kind of more straddling like.

758
00:36:04,302 --> 00:36:06,662
Speaker 2: What modern corporate means, because she's not in a suit,

759
00:36:07,102 --> 00:36:09,382
Speaker 2: but she's definitely I think the word we would be

760
00:36:09,542 --> 00:36:10,661
Speaker 2: looking for is polished.

761
00:36:11,022 --> 00:36:11,662
Speaker 4: She and jeans.

762
00:36:11,982 --> 00:36:14,382
Speaker 2: She lives in jeans on a non meeting day, but

763
00:36:14,422 --> 00:36:16,941
Speaker 2: they're very elegant jeens. What I was asking em when

764
00:36:16,942 --> 00:36:19,102
Speaker 2: I asked her about her in pas, I promise it

765
00:36:19,102 --> 00:36:23,062
Speaker 2: wasn't passac. It's basically I wonder if there's a generational

766
00:36:23,062 --> 00:36:25,261
Speaker 2: piece to this. But I definitely think that I have

767
00:36:25,422 --> 00:36:27,821
Speaker 2: work clothes and non work clothes. Even though I wear

768
00:36:27,862 --> 00:36:31,741
Speaker 2: jeans and things to work. I definitely dress differently on

769
00:36:31,781 --> 00:36:33,381
Speaker 2: a day when I'm coming into the office here at

770
00:36:33,382 --> 00:36:36,421
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia than I do when I'm at home in Hip.

771
00:36:37,022 --> 00:36:39,861
Speaker 2: But I don't know if that's true for a lot

772
00:36:39,902 --> 00:36:44,382
Speaker 2: of the younger people who came of work age during COVID.

773
00:36:45,022 --> 00:36:48,862
Speaker 2: I definitely have spoken to colleagues where I say, oh,

774
00:36:48,942 --> 00:36:50,542
Speaker 2: these are work clothes, and they look at me a

775
00:36:50,582 --> 00:36:52,821
Speaker 2: bit blankly, like what do you mean working? Yeah.

776
00:36:52,822 --> 00:36:56,542
Speaker 3: So apparently self expression has become increasingly for GenZ and

777
00:36:56,582 --> 00:37:00,582
Speaker 3: millennial They've never really understood fashion without self expression, like

778
00:37:00,582 --> 00:37:02,301
Speaker 3: I'm going to show who I am, whether it's with

779
00:37:02,382 --> 00:37:06,341
Speaker 3: like a baseball hat or sneakers or something. They want

780
00:37:06,342 --> 00:37:09,422
Speaker 3: to look like themselves. Whereas when I first started in

781
00:37:09,422 --> 00:37:13,022
Speaker 3: the workplace. I worked in a school ADMINI thing like

782
00:37:13,102 --> 00:37:15,741
Speaker 3: I just copied exactly what everyone else was wearing, and

783
00:37:15,781 --> 00:37:17,942
Speaker 3: it was a pencil skirt, like that's the kind of

784
00:37:18,221 --> 00:37:21,902
Speaker 3: thing you did, which I felt incredibly uncomfortable in. But

785
00:37:22,022 --> 00:37:24,301
Speaker 3: I found this article in the Washington Post and it's

786
00:37:24,422 --> 00:37:28,182
Speaker 3: Lizzy Post, who works for the Emily Post Institute. Emily

787
00:37:28,181 --> 00:37:29,982
Speaker 3: Post was her great great grandmother, and she does all

788
00:37:29,982 --> 00:37:33,341
Speaker 3: the etiquette guides. Oh good, And she has business etiquette

789
00:37:33,382 --> 00:37:35,542
Speaker 3: and rules for what you have to wear to the office.

790
00:37:35,582 --> 00:37:37,102
Speaker 4: Do you want to hear some of them this year

791
00:37:37,142 --> 00:37:37,981
Speaker 4: twenty twenty five?

792
00:37:38,982 --> 00:37:41,142
Speaker 5: But I will say, if soft pants is on there,

793
00:37:41,261 --> 00:37:44,221
Speaker 5: I'm walking out. And there's been enough aggression towards soft

794
00:37:44,221 --> 00:37:45,461
Speaker 5: pants today.

795
00:37:45,502 --> 00:37:48,701
Speaker 3: Well, she says, and this is important for summer. We're

796
00:37:48,701 --> 00:37:51,381
Speaker 3: going into a summer in Australia and there's a big

797
00:37:51,462 --> 00:37:52,302
Speaker 3: question regardings.

798
00:37:52,342 --> 00:37:55,301
Speaker 2: Assuming the rapture doesn't happen exactly true, that would be

799
00:37:55,342 --> 00:37:57,221
Speaker 2: one of the reliefs of the rapture. We don't have

800
00:37:57,261 --> 00:37:59,221
Speaker 2: to think about what to wear to the office tomorrow.

801
00:38:00,102 --> 00:38:03,902
Speaker 3: The shoe to foot ratio, right, okay, shoes to foot ratio,

802
00:38:03,942 --> 00:38:07,582
Speaker 3: So we wear a sandal, how much sand or can

803
00:38:07,622 --> 00:38:08,661
Speaker 3: we get away with right?

804
00:38:08,701 --> 00:38:09,461
Speaker 4: This is the big question.

805
00:38:10,102 --> 00:38:13,661
Speaker 3: So she says that the shoe to foot visibility ratio

806
00:38:13,781 --> 00:38:17,142
Speaker 3: remains tipped in the balance of the shoe, so anything

807
00:38:17,181 --> 00:38:20,261
Speaker 3: that starts to have the majority of the foot exposed

808
00:38:20,502 --> 00:38:22,901
Speaker 3: starts to become questionable. So if I can say too

809
00:38:22,942 --> 00:38:25,462
Speaker 3: much foot, apparently that's a no no. Right, you've got

810
00:38:25,502 --> 00:38:29,181
Speaker 3: to have most of your foot covered. Rule iron your clothes, which,

811
00:38:29,382 --> 00:38:31,422
Speaker 3: by the way, did you really have to be told that,

812
00:38:31,582 --> 00:38:34,741
Speaker 3: jo I do iron my clothes, and every comment is.

813
00:38:35,902 --> 00:38:37,822
Speaker 1: A shower and a coat hanger.

814
00:38:38,221 --> 00:38:40,421
Speaker 4: I try, I try, but I actually iron them.

815
00:38:40,462 --> 00:38:42,422
Speaker 3: And every time we post videos to the outloud as

816
00:38:42,422 --> 00:38:44,542
Speaker 3: they say, Jesse ironing, I do.

817
00:38:44,982 --> 00:38:46,582
Speaker 2: But I'm the same as you. There are some people

818
00:38:46,582 --> 00:38:48,502
Speaker 2: who are really good at ironing, and I'm doing it right,

819
00:38:48,542 --> 00:38:49,062
Speaker 2: I'm terrible.

820
00:38:49,221 --> 00:38:50,902
Speaker 1: I think iron your clothes.

821
00:38:50,982 --> 00:38:53,542
Speaker 5: Probably if you gathered up all the comments on the

822
00:38:53,582 --> 00:38:56,181
Speaker 5: internet since it began when our Dore started at back

823
00:38:56,261 --> 00:38:59,262
Speaker 5: in two thousand, I think iron your clothes.

824
00:39:00,342 --> 00:39:02,982
Speaker 4: And then mostly about me. Jeans are allowed.

825
00:39:03,181 --> 00:39:05,781
Speaker 3: According to her, a particular type of gene loves a

826
00:39:05,822 --> 00:39:08,421
Speaker 3: straight leg, and she says the higher the waist, the better.

827
00:39:08,502 --> 00:39:11,062
Speaker 1: The Princess Die the twee blazer exactly.

828
00:39:11,661 --> 00:39:14,862
Speaker 4: You cannot wear the same socks you wear to the gym.

829
00:39:15,022 --> 00:39:15,822
Speaker 1: No, but socks.

830
00:39:15,942 --> 00:39:18,622
Speaker 5: I'm sorry with respect to the Post family, who I

831
00:39:18,661 --> 00:39:21,502
Speaker 5: know have been dispensing and I could advise for generations.

832
00:39:21,502 --> 00:39:25,062
Speaker 1: Socks is a whole other thing right now.

833
00:39:24,822 --> 00:39:26,022
Speaker 4: So you can have like a statement.

834
00:39:26,102 --> 00:39:27,821
Speaker 1: So it's too many rules.

835
00:39:28,181 --> 00:39:31,261
Speaker 5: I just I'm paralyzed by indecision on the sock front.

836
00:39:31,302 --> 00:39:33,502
Speaker 5: I don't understand what socks are appropriate anymore.

837
00:39:33,502 --> 00:39:35,701
Speaker 2: You know, I found myself buying some statement socks on

838
00:39:35,741 --> 00:39:38,182
Speaker 2: the internet when I was statements, and then I thought,

839
00:39:38,342 --> 00:39:40,942
Speaker 2: this is yet another one of these examples in my

840
00:39:40,982 --> 00:39:44,701
Speaker 2: life where Mia was buying statements socks literally and we

841
00:39:44,701 --> 00:39:47,742
Speaker 2: were laughing at her one year ago. We were pointing

842
00:39:47,781 --> 00:39:50,542
Speaker 2: at her stupid socks and going ha ha ha. And

843
00:39:50,582 --> 00:39:55,661
Speaker 2: then I just bought some sparkly mesh mid cuff, strangely

844
00:39:55,781 --> 00:40:00,381
Speaker 2: bronze socks for too much money on the Internet, and

845
00:40:00,422 --> 00:40:03,381
Speaker 2: I'm like, OK, this is another example of how she's

846
00:40:03,422 --> 00:40:05,181
Speaker 2: always right ahead.

847
00:40:04,942 --> 00:40:08,622
Speaker 4: Of the curt So backpacks are the new briefcase.

848
00:40:09,701 --> 00:40:12,221
Speaker 2: You happy you always have. I mean, I have a

849
00:40:12,221 --> 00:40:14,502
Speaker 2: backpack too, but you've had piss taken out of you

850
00:40:14,542 --> 00:40:15,782
Speaker 2: about your Josh Live.

851
00:40:15,661 --> 00:40:17,502
Speaker 3: And backpack for a while, for a very long time.

852
00:40:17,542 --> 00:40:19,861
Speaker 3: And this is the last one. T shirt rule, big

853
00:40:19,942 --> 00:40:22,462
Speaker 3: question about T shirts. All T shirts are not made equally.

854
00:40:23,462 --> 00:40:26,221
Speaker 3: You have to have a slightly thicker or softer fabric.

855
00:40:26,582 --> 00:40:29,542
Speaker 3: You need to tread carefully with logos, words and non

856
00:40:29,661 --> 00:40:32,382
Speaker 3: abstract images for example, a T shirt with them a

857
00:40:32,422 --> 00:40:33,102
Speaker 3: tease painting.

858
00:40:33,582 --> 00:40:38,341
Speaker 4: Fine. A T shirt with a cartoon character. No, so

859
00:40:38,462 --> 00:40:39,781
Speaker 4: that's the rule. Would you wear a T shirt?

860
00:40:39,781 --> 00:40:42,622
Speaker 3: I've never seen you wear a T shirt shirt. Yeah,

861
00:40:42,902 --> 00:40:46,582
Speaker 3: I don't mind. I make a T shirt look very cheap.

862
00:40:46,741 --> 00:40:48,942
Speaker 2: My uniform is shirts. As you know, I've got a

863
00:40:48,942 --> 00:40:51,062
Speaker 2: lot of shirts, which means I do have to iron them,

864
00:40:51,102 --> 00:40:54,102
Speaker 2: which is annoying. I wear a lot of shirts. I

865
00:40:54,142 --> 00:40:56,582
Speaker 2: would not wear a T shirt with the cartoon encouragement.

866
00:40:58,342 --> 00:41:01,062
Speaker 2: But if we instilled that, if we instilled that rule

867
00:41:01,102 --> 00:41:03,062
Speaker 2: at MoMA Mere, there would be no one out there

868
00:41:03,102 --> 00:41:04,381
Speaker 2: and they're all wearing T shirts.

869
00:41:04,382 --> 00:41:06,142
Speaker 3: Another fun one is that you can wear a hat,

870
00:41:06,221 --> 00:41:09,181
Speaker 3: but you must take it off for your meeting. Hat

871
00:41:10,382 --> 00:41:17,701
Speaker 3: then a fascinator like what from morning meeting?

872
00:41:17,781 --> 00:41:20,062
Speaker 4: By sorry, guys, just take my hat off out loud as,

873
00:41:20,102 --> 00:41:20,341
Speaker 4: what are.

874
00:41:20,261 --> 00:41:23,422
Speaker 2: You wearing to work? Like? Tell us and people started

875
00:41:23,462 --> 00:41:25,821
Speaker 2: talking to you about your clothes. Those tiktoks that we

876
00:41:25,862 --> 00:41:28,262
Speaker 2: played a bit of before, there's just these women walking

877
00:41:28,342 --> 00:41:31,142
Speaker 2: up to their coworkers and assistance and being like this.

878
00:41:31,542 --> 00:41:32,462
Speaker 1: No, not working.

879
00:41:34,102 --> 00:41:35,982
Speaker 4: Really, out Louders, tell.

880
00:41:35,862 --> 00:41:36,661
Speaker 2: Us how you're doing it?

881
00:41:37,701 --> 00:41:38,462
Speaker 1: I think that's it.

882
00:41:38,661 --> 00:41:41,221
Speaker 2: I think we've exhausted Wednesday.

883
00:41:40,822 --> 00:41:42,582
Speaker 4: Yep, solved the problem in the world today.

884
00:41:42,701 --> 00:41:44,622
Speaker 2: Massive thank you to all of you out louders for

885
00:41:44,701 --> 00:41:47,301
Speaker 2: being here with us. As always, we're going to be

886
00:41:47,302 --> 00:41:50,582
Speaker 2: back in your ears of course tomorrow, and don't forget

887
00:41:51,062 --> 00:41:52,741
Speaker 2: if you want to look at what we're wearing to

888
00:41:52,822 --> 00:41:57,102
Speaker 2: work today, at least the top half of it. Can't

889
00:41:57,181 --> 00:41:59,822
Speaker 2: check our socks. You'll find us on YouTube.

890
00:41:59,701 --> 00:42:02,741
Speaker 3: And out Louders if you missed Monday's episode. We talked

891
00:42:02,741 --> 00:42:05,701
Speaker 3: about the latest development in what I am terming the

892
00:42:05,902 --> 00:42:09,982
Speaker 3: Internet's biggest cheating scandal. We also talk about what is

893
00:42:10,142 --> 00:42:12,462
Speaker 3: going on with Jimmy Kimmel and all the stuff you

894
00:42:12,542 --> 00:42:15,381
Speaker 3: might have missed, and why are you ugly cry on

895
00:42:15,422 --> 00:42:16,421
Speaker 3: your birthday every year?

896
00:42:16,462 --> 00:42:17,142
Speaker 4: You're not alone?

897
00:42:17,302 --> 00:42:19,542
Speaker 3: We unpack why it's a super common thing to do,

898
00:42:19,661 --> 00:42:22,302
Speaker 3: and my Mum got so offended by what I said,

899
00:42:22,342 --> 00:42:24,462
Speaker 3: she commented in the out.

900
00:42:24,622 --> 00:42:30,022
Speaker 2: Special group, Anne Stevens continues to be dry Connie. She

901
00:42:30,342 --> 00:42:32,462
Speaker 2: was just like Jesse had a winge about her birthday.

902
00:42:32,462 --> 00:42:34,261
Speaker 2: You have to go listen, and Anne was just like

903
00:42:34,502 --> 00:42:35,622
Speaker 2: not having it.

904
00:42:35,781 --> 00:42:37,701
Speaker 4: Not having any of it. We will pop a link

905
00:42:37,741 --> 00:42:39,862
Speaker 4: in the show notes. Bye bye.

906
00:42:40,822 --> 00:42:43,701
Speaker 2: Shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you

907
00:42:43,862 --> 00:42:46,741
Speaker 2: love the show and you want to support us, subscribing

908
00:42:46,741 --> 00:42:49,221
Speaker 2: to Mamma Mia is the very best way to do it.

909
00:42:49,382 --> 00:42:51,261
Speaker 2: There's a link in the episode description.