1 00:00:06,552 --> 00:00:10,072 Speaker 1: True Crime Conversations acknowledges the traditional owners of land and 2 00:00:10,152 --> 00:00:14,912 Speaker 1: waters that this podcast was recorded on. It's a Saturday 3 00:00:14,952 --> 00:00:18,672 Speaker 1: afternoon in August twenty sixteen, and Tera Yule has finished 4 00:00:18,712 --> 00:00:20,872 Speaker 1: up her shift at Rebel Run, a dog kennel in 5 00:00:20,952 --> 00:00:25,271 Speaker 1: Newport Beach. She has exciting plans tonight. She's off to 6 00:00:25,272 --> 00:00:29,632 Speaker 1: see one of her favorite country stars perform with a friend. Cash, 7 00:00:29,672 --> 00:00:32,711 Speaker 1: her miniature Australian Shepherd, jumps into the back seat of 8 00:00:32,711 --> 00:00:36,232 Speaker 1: her Toyota Prius for the five kilometer drive home. As 9 00:00:36,232 --> 00:00:39,952 Speaker 1: she pulls into her car park, she notices an unfamiliar car. 10 00:00:40,912 --> 00:00:44,551 Speaker 1: Her dog starts growling as they spot a man fidgeting 11 00:00:44,632 --> 00:00:48,952 Speaker 1: in the back. Maybe he's homeless, she thinks, living in 12 00:00:48,992 --> 00:00:51,912 Speaker 1: his car. As she hops out of the driver's seat 13 00:00:51,912 --> 00:00:55,712 Speaker 1: and makes towards the exit, the man grabs her around 14 00:00:55,712 --> 00:00:58,831 Speaker 1: the waist, looking her straight in the eye as he says, 15 00:00:59,232 --> 00:01:05,472 Speaker 1: do you remember me? It's John Meehan, her mother's estranged husband, 16 00:01:05,952 --> 00:01:08,512 Speaker 1: A man and she and her sisters discovered and unveiled 17 00:01:08,552 --> 00:01:11,512 Speaker 1: as a serial con man and criminal, a man she 18 00:01:11,551 --> 00:01:15,952 Speaker 1: has feared for a long long time. She struggles, but 19 00:01:16,032 --> 00:01:19,952 Speaker 1: he's bigger, stronger, he covers her mouth, she bites him. 20 00:01:20,191 --> 00:01:23,592 Speaker 1: He starts stabbing her with a large knife again and 21 00:01:23,672 --> 00:01:27,551 Speaker 1: again and again. Terror fights for her life. As a 22 00:01:27,592 --> 00:01:30,551 Speaker 1: second drag by, she finds herself on the floor. Kicking 23 00:01:30,672 --> 00:01:33,912 Speaker 1: up at John with sturdy work boots. She manages to 24 00:01:34,032 --> 00:01:38,152 Speaker 1: knock the knife out of his hand. It lands right 25 00:01:38,271 --> 00:01:38,711 Speaker 1: by her. 26 00:01:39,672 --> 00:01:42,192 Speaker 2: I didn't give her a second fight, and it just 27 00:01:42,232 --> 00:01:49,392 Speaker 2: started whirling on him and stabbing him. Kase now that 28 00:01:50,312 --> 00:01:54,552 Speaker 2: if I didn't fade back and learn him, he would 29 00:01:54,752 --> 00:01:59,872 Speaker 2: continue to try to hurt me and possibly kill me. 30 00:02:07,072 --> 00:02:10,992 Speaker 1: I'm Jimmy Bath and this is true Crime Conversations Amom 31 00:02:10,992 --> 00:02:14,232 Speaker 1: of Me, a podcast exploring the world's most notorious crimes 32 00:02:14,592 --> 00:02:17,072 Speaker 1: by speaking to the people who know the most about them. 33 00:02:17,792 --> 00:02:22,312 Speaker 1: Tara Nule fatally stabbed John Miihan thirteen times in total. 34 00:02:22,872 --> 00:02:27,592 Speaker 1: Her last blow went straight through his eye. Of all 35 00:02:27,632 --> 00:02:31,392 Speaker 1: of Deborah Yule's four children, Terror was seen as the 36 00:02:31,432 --> 00:02:35,992 Speaker 1: most softly spoken, the least competitive, the sweet one who 37 00:02:35,992 --> 00:02:38,712 Speaker 1: had never hurt a fly. But at the age of 38 00:02:38,752 --> 00:02:42,192 Speaker 1: twenty five, she killed a man who tried to take 39 00:02:42,232 --> 00:02:46,352 Speaker 1: her life in an act of self defense. Orange County 40 00:02:46,352 --> 00:02:49,552 Speaker 1: Prosecutor Matt Murphy once told us on this very podcast. 41 00:02:50,392 --> 00:02:53,152 Speaker 3: That's one of the few cases that truly, you know, 42 00:02:53,192 --> 00:02:55,592 Speaker 3: when you were homicides, you see a lot of really 43 00:02:55,632 --> 00:02:59,512 Speaker 3: sad things, and that was the happiest ending I encountered 44 00:02:59,552 --> 00:03:01,872 Speaker 3: in almost two decades doing that work. 45 00:03:03,072 --> 00:03:05,912 Speaker 1: This was a man who had a kidnapped kit waiting 46 00:03:05,952 --> 00:03:09,872 Speaker 1: for her in that car, complete with duct tape, weapons 47 00:03:09,912 --> 00:03:14,112 Speaker 1: and cable ties. A man who had a detailed, terrifying 48 00:03:14,112 --> 00:03:17,712 Speaker 1: criminal past which was only further revealed after his death. 49 00:03:18,352 --> 00:03:20,472 Speaker 1: A man who sold himself to her mother as a 50 00:03:20,512 --> 00:03:25,672 Speaker 1: successful anesthesiologist who'd worked with doctors without borders, a devoted Christian, 51 00:03:25,672 --> 00:03:29,352 Speaker 1: and a dedicated father. In reality, he was a nurse, 52 00:03:29,432 --> 00:03:32,992 Speaker 1: not a doctor, who'd had his license permanently revoked and 53 00:03:33,032 --> 00:03:36,912 Speaker 1: had strained relationships with his children. Today, we're going to 54 00:03:36,952 --> 00:03:41,272 Speaker 1: hear from Terror, nearly a decade on from Stopping Dirty John, 55 00:03:41,512 --> 00:03:43,512 Speaker 1: which is the name of the podcast that first made 56 00:03:43,592 --> 00:03:47,072 Speaker 1: this story go viral. But first a bit of background 57 00:03:47,152 --> 00:03:50,832 Speaker 1: on Mehan. His first bout in prison was for stealing drugs. 58 00:03:51,512 --> 00:03:53,752 Speaker 1: His first wife discovered he'd been using his job as 59 00:03:53,792 --> 00:03:56,312 Speaker 1: a nurse to steal them from hospitals to get high. 60 00:03:56,672 --> 00:03:59,432 Speaker 1: After their divorce in two thousand and one, he started 61 00:03:59,472 --> 00:04:02,952 Speaker 1: stalking and extorting another woman he started dating, and went 62 00:04:02,992 --> 00:04:05,352 Speaker 1: to prison for a few months in twenty fourteen for 63 00:04:05,432 --> 00:04:09,032 Speaker 1: crimes against her. Once out, he turned his sights on 64 00:04:09,152 --> 00:04:13,632 Speaker 1: Deborah Mule, a successful and wealthy interior designer looking for 65 00:04:13,712 --> 00:04:21,432 Speaker 1: love after four failed marriages. Her daughter Terror joins us. Now, Terror, 66 00:04:21,552 --> 00:04:24,992 Speaker 1: this all happened to you and your family in your 67 00:04:25,152 --> 00:04:29,992 Speaker 1: early twenties. You're now in your thirties. How do you 68 00:04:30,072 --> 00:04:33,512 Speaker 1: feel about it reflecting on it now all these years later. 69 00:04:35,312 --> 00:04:40,472 Speaker 2: It's interesting because true crime, the story is never over 70 00:04:40,552 --> 00:04:45,632 Speaker 2: in a sense, and I'm still learning stuff to this day. 71 00:04:46,432 --> 00:04:50,312 Speaker 2: And it's interesting also because at first, when I went 72 00:04:50,352 --> 00:04:55,112 Speaker 2: through my story, it was slightly triggering but very cathartic. 73 00:04:55,272 --> 00:04:58,472 Speaker 2: And now I'm to the point where me just going 74 00:04:58,512 --> 00:05:02,072 Speaker 2: through my attack and going through the hospital it doesn't 75 00:05:02,072 --> 00:05:06,152 Speaker 2: benefit my mental health anymore. It just triggers me further 76 00:05:07,152 --> 00:05:09,872 Speaker 2: instead of helping like it used to. 77 00:05:10,672 --> 00:05:13,392 Speaker 1: But if you found that over the years, you've learnt 78 00:05:13,472 --> 00:05:16,912 Speaker 1: where those boundaries are, perhaps you've tested them a bit more, 79 00:05:16,952 --> 00:05:18,912 Speaker 1: saying more than you want and then realized, oh I 80 00:05:18,952 --> 00:05:21,152 Speaker 1: need to peel back. Has that been a bit of 81 00:05:21,192 --> 00:05:21,912 Speaker 1: a journey for you? 82 00:05:23,352 --> 00:05:29,152 Speaker 2: It has a little bit. But now it's interesting because 83 00:05:30,392 --> 00:05:34,552 Speaker 2: I still have things that come up. When I talk 84 00:05:34,672 --> 00:05:39,912 Speaker 2: about the attack, I'll slightly remember, oh, something else, And 85 00:05:40,432 --> 00:05:46,872 Speaker 2: it's interesting because I'm still piecing together that memory. Because trauma, 86 00:05:47,112 --> 00:05:49,992 Speaker 2: the brain likes to block out the trauma that happens, 87 00:05:50,552 --> 00:05:54,912 Speaker 2: so I can't see it fully as if someone who 88 00:05:55,032 --> 00:05:57,832 Speaker 2: was watching it might see it. But that person also 89 00:05:58,352 --> 00:06:01,032 Speaker 2: might block things from their memory too, because that's a 90 00:06:01,072 --> 00:06:05,351 Speaker 2: witness witnessing a trauma, So that's a trauma itself. 91 00:06:06,472 --> 00:06:10,312 Speaker 1: So interesting how the brain protects you as well. Yes, 92 00:06:11,752 --> 00:06:13,432 Speaker 1: I want to go back to the start. Do you 93 00:06:13,512 --> 00:06:16,952 Speaker 1: remember the first time you heard about John. 94 00:06:18,152 --> 00:06:23,712 Speaker 2: Yes, I was on the phone with my sister, actually, Jacqueline, 95 00:06:23,792 --> 00:06:27,832 Speaker 2: and she was talking about how Mom met someone new. 96 00:06:28,272 --> 00:06:31,752 Speaker 2: She doesn't really like him. And then it's funny because 97 00:06:31,792 --> 00:06:34,112 Speaker 2: then I talked to my mom and then my mom's 98 00:06:34,192 --> 00:06:37,152 Speaker 2: telling me, oh, I met someone new, I really like him. 99 00:06:37,432 --> 00:06:42,472 Speaker 2: Jacqueline doesn't like him, and it's just like a sisters 100 00:06:42,592 --> 00:06:47,551 Speaker 2: and mom going back and forth and talking about like, oh, 101 00:06:47,712 --> 00:06:50,752 Speaker 2: like I met this guy, and then my sister never 102 00:06:51,072 --> 00:06:57,032 Speaker 2: liked anyone, and so I took what she was saying 103 00:06:57,152 --> 00:07:01,192 Speaker 2: with the grain of salt. But I also didn't expect 104 00:07:01,232 --> 00:07:05,231 Speaker 2: for him to be the real greatest guy r. 105 00:07:06,392 --> 00:07:10,552 Speaker 1: They met on an online dating site. Yes, how did 106 00:07:10,552 --> 00:07:14,432 Speaker 1: you feel about her finding love online? I assume what 107 00:07:14,472 --> 00:07:16,952 Speaker 1: you're alluding to there is she had a bit of 108 00:07:16,952 --> 00:07:20,872 Speaker 1: a history with men and dating, and you guys had 109 00:07:20,912 --> 00:07:23,192 Speaker 1: always kind of like watched on from the sidelines. 110 00:07:24,072 --> 00:07:27,272 Speaker 2: Yes, well, we were well, not from the sidelines in 111 00:07:27,272 --> 00:07:30,872 Speaker 2: a sense, I say, sometimes we were involved with giving 112 00:07:30,952 --> 00:07:34,992 Speaker 2: our opinion to my mom, involved with why is he 113 00:07:35,152 --> 00:07:38,712 Speaker 2: doing this, why is he doing night? He shouldn't be 114 00:07:38,792 --> 00:07:45,152 Speaker 2: doing that, and just being uber opinionated. 115 00:07:45,872 --> 00:07:51,032 Speaker 1: Walk me through your family. You've mentioned your sister. Where 116 00:07:51,072 --> 00:07:53,832 Speaker 1: were you and your siblings at in twenty fourteen and 117 00:07:53,872 --> 00:07:55,232 Speaker 1: how close were you to your mom? 118 00:07:55,632 --> 00:08:02,392 Speaker 2: So during this time, I was working at a dog kennel. 119 00:08:02,672 --> 00:08:07,152 Speaker 2: I think I was also maybe working I like a 120 00:08:07,192 --> 00:08:11,192 Speaker 2: pet store during this time, but I think I left 121 00:08:11,192 --> 00:08:15,112 Speaker 2: because then you started to gain awareness about pet stores 122 00:08:15,312 --> 00:08:19,992 Speaker 2: and how the ethical nature of them and selling dogs, 123 00:08:20,112 --> 00:08:25,272 Speaker 2: and I didn't really care for the standards that the 124 00:08:25,272 --> 00:08:28,392 Speaker 2: dogs were living in. So I was either working or 125 00:08:28,992 --> 00:08:32,992 Speaker 2: in transition during that time. I ended up moving to 126 00:08:33,151 --> 00:08:36,752 Speaker 2: Vegas with my boyfriend at the time, and then so 127 00:08:37,032 --> 00:08:40,552 Speaker 2: we were like newly in Vegas working in the TV 128 00:08:40,672 --> 00:08:43,872 Speaker 2: and film industry, and then I was also working as 129 00:08:43,912 --> 00:08:48,912 Speaker 2: a dog groomer. And then my sister was in a 130 00:08:48,952 --> 00:08:52,792 Speaker 2: relationship at the time, still in that relationship, and then 131 00:08:52,912 --> 00:08:57,872 Speaker 2: my other siblings they were they probably had kids around 132 00:08:58,032 --> 00:09:03,152 Speaker 2: like eight to like six to like eight or ten, 133 00:09:03,672 --> 00:09:04,992 Speaker 2: like those ranges. 134 00:09:05,392 --> 00:09:08,791 Speaker 1: So everyone was kind of living busy, separate lives. 135 00:09:09,512 --> 00:09:12,952 Speaker 2: Yes, Like everyone was just living their own life. And 136 00:09:13,032 --> 00:09:17,592 Speaker 2: so my mom was really alone. She was really not 137 00:09:17,912 --> 00:09:21,432 Speaker 2: having as much family time as she was used to, 138 00:09:22,112 --> 00:09:25,392 Speaker 2: and so she needed to also create her own life 139 00:09:25,392 --> 00:09:26,032 Speaker 2: for herself. 140 00:09:26,432 --> 00:09:29,552 Speaker 1: So your sister Jacqueline was the first one of the 141 00:09:29,552 --> 00:09:33,672 Speaker 1: siblings to kind of have some strange interactions with him. Yeah, 142 00:09:33,712 --> 00:09:35,112 Speaker 1: can you explain some of those. 143 00:09:36,032 --> 00:09:40,552 Speaker 2: Yes, So my sister she met him the first night. 144 00:09:40,712 --> 00:09:43,712 Speaker 2: They went on a day actually, and he showed up 145 00:09:43,712 --> 00:09:46,992 Speaker 2: to the apartment. She didn't really prefer his look. She 146 00:09:47,032 --> 00:09:51,112 Speaker 2: said that he was wearing khakis and that he just 147 00:09:51,232 --> 00:09:55,752 Speaker 2: presented himself in a different way. He was also looking 148 00:09:55,832 --> 00:10:01,472 Speaker 2: around scoping out the apartment, and to her, she just 149 00:10:01,672 --> 00:10:07,112 Speaker 2: noticed that he seemed super interested in her safe and 150 00:10:07,392 --> 00:10:13,552 Speaker 2: also just like the penthouse and just asking her maybe 151 00:10:13,632 --> 00:10:15,872 Speaker 2: a little too many questions. 152 00:10:16,352 --> 00:10:18,672 Speaker 1: So your mom and Johan moved in together up to 153 00:10:18,712 --> 00:10:23,152 Speaker 1: Diting for about two ish months, and initially they tried 154 00:10:23,192 --> 00:10:26,312 Speaker 1: to Kate that a bit of a sacret. Can you 155 00:10:26,352 --> 00:10:28,792 Speaker 1: tell me about your trip to visit them for Thanksgiving? 156 00:10:29,792 --> 00:10:32,752 Speaker 2: Yes, So I actually had a trip the week prior, 157 00:10:32,912 --> 00:10:35,392 Speaker 2: and that's the week that I helped them move into 158 00:10:35,432 --> 00:10:38,952 Speaker 2: their apartment with my boyfriend Jimmy at the time, and 159 00:10:38,992 --> 00:10:44,712 Speaker 2: then our dogs and we stayed there. It seemed like 160 00:10:44,952 --> 00:10:49,832 Speaker 2: John was moving in. My mom denied it at the time. However, 161 00:10:50,152 --> 00:10:52,992 Speaker 2: I don't even know if she knew he was moving in, 162 00:10:54,032 --> 00:10:58,192 Speaker 2: and because he had so little stuff. He had like 163 00:10:58,272 --> 00:11:02,952 Speaker 2: a box and then his grooming bag, and then he 164 00:11:03,112 --> 00:11:07,632 Speaker 2: had a few clothing items, so I don't think in 165 00:11:07,712 --> 00:11:10,432 Speaker 2: her head she even thought he was moving in. I 166 00:11:10,472 --> 00:11:13,872 Speaker 2: think she just thought he was staying. He all there 167 00:11:13,912 --> 00:11:16,992 Speaker 2: all the time, that it was okay because it's a 168 00:11:17,032 --> 00:11:21,271 Speaker 2: new relationship. She didn't want to go to Indio, and 169 00:11:21,352 --> 00:11:25,312 Speaker 2: he told her that he lived in Indio, so she thought, oh, 170 00:11:25,432 --> 00:11:27,912 Speaker 2: he could stay out here and I get to get 171 00:11:27,952 --> 00:11:31,952 Speaker 2: away from my daughter. Because Jacqueline was having an issue 172 00:11:31,952 --> 00:11:35,952 Speaker 2: with them being in the apartment, together. She wanted her 173 00:11:36,112 --> 00:11:39,992 Speaker 2: space and her privacy, and she also wanted to create 174 00:11:40,152 --> 00:11:45,511 Speaker 2: boundaries with my sister, which is considered healthy and normal, you. 175 00:11:45,472 --> 00:11:49,631 Speaker 1: Know, because your sister was living with your mom during 176 00:11:49,632 --> 00:11:50,232 Speaker 1: that period. 177 00:11:50,712 --> 00:11:55,352 Speaker 2: Yes, so she moved away to create these boundaries with 178 00:11:55,392 --> 00:12:01,631 Speaker 2: my sister, and he essentially moved in. But I kept 179 00:12:01,672 --> 00:12:03,992 Speaker 2: on saying things to my mom, like, oh, are you 180 00:12:04,032 --> 00:12:07,192 Speaker 2: sure he's not moving in? And she would kept denying 181 00:12:07,272 --> 00:12:14,112 Speaker 2: it to me. And then the next week we came back, 182 00:12:14,432 --> 00:12:18,072 Speaker 2: me and my boyfriend and our dogs. We came back 183 00:12:18,272 --> 00:12:24,792 Speaker 2: to celebrate Thanksgiving, and so the day prior, I went 184 00:12:24,832 --> 00:12:29,352 Speaker 2: and did all the grocery shopping. I got all the groceries. 185 00:12:29,872 --> 00:12:35,032 Speaker 2: Then John came back with my mom because John was 186 00:12:35,072 --> 00:12:41,511 Speaker 2: at the hospital, and also I was at my sister's hairdresser, 187 00:12:41,792 --> 00:12:45,552 Speaker 2: and she also was my hairdresser and my mom's, and 188 00:12:45,592 --> 00:12:51,592 Speaker 2: then she did John's hair as well, and John said 189 00:12:51,952 --> 00:12:55,872 Speaker 2: a lot of interesting things to her. He just didn't 190 00:12:55,912 --> 00:13:01,552 Speaker 2: seem like a great guy to her, and so we 191 00:13:01,552 --> 00:13:05,512 Speaker 2: were kind of gossiping about that and talking about my 192 00:13:05,672 --> 00:13:10,472 Speaker 2: mom's relationship and how we just didn't like him, and 193 00:13:10,752 --> 00:13:14,552 Speaker 2: we were questioning why was he using my mom's cars 194 00:13:15,192 --> 00:13:19,752 Speaker 2: why is he basically moving in. We just had all 195 00:13:19,792 --> 00:13:23,472 Speaker 2: these questions, and also where was all his stuff if 196 00:13:23,552 --> 00:13:27,672 Speaker 2: he said he was a doctor and an anesthesiologist and 197 00:13:27,712 --> 00:13:34,152 Speaker 2: all these things, So we just had questions. I went 198 00:13:34,192 --> 00:13:37,832 Speaker 2: back to the house and then my mom comes home 199 00:13:37,872 --> 00:13:42,552 Speaker 2: from the hospital with John, and then they kind of 200 00:13:42,552 --> 00:13:46,472 Speaker 2: peek in the doorway. Me and John have some words, 201 00:13:46,552 --> 00:13:50,352 Speaker 2: my mom has some words, and basically I end up 202 00:13:50,512 --> 00:13:54,911 Speaker 2: leaving and I go to my sister's and I'm disinvited 203 00:13:54,992 --> 00:13:55,952 Speaker 2: to Thanksgiving? 204 00:13:56,592 --> 00:14:00,072 Speaker 1: What kind of language was he using with you that 205 00:14:00,192 --> 00:14:02,592 Speaker 1: really upset you? 206 00:14:02,872 --> 00:14:03,031 Speaker 2: Oh? 207 00:14:03,072 --> 00:14:04,592 Speaker 1: Made you kind of think to us? 208 00:14:05,232 --> 00:14:08,352 Speaker 2: I was having a conversation with my mom and then 209 00:14:08,432 --> 00:14:13,752 Speaker 2: he came up behind her and then just started accusing 210 00:14:13,872 --> 00:14:16,872 Speaker 2: me of wanting my mom all to myself. And then 211 00:14:16,952 --> 00:14:20,392 Speaker 2: there was a lot of f hughs and stuff thrown 212 00:14:20,472 --> 00:14:25,512 Speaker 2: around from both parts, and it just my boyfriend at 213 00:14:25,552 --> 00:14:28,552 Speaker 2: the time was even asked a few questions as well 214 00:14:28,952 --> 00:14:34,472 Speaker 2: from my mom, and we essentially just left because it 215 00:14:34,552 --> 00:14:37,792 Speaker 2: didn't seem like we were welcome there anymore, and then 216 00:14:37,992 --> 00:14:42,912 Speaker 2: it was It was honestly a very traumatic memory for 217 00:14:43,072 --> 00:14:48,072 Speaker 2: me in that time because it created a trauma around Thanksgiving. 218 00:14:48,232 --> 00:14:52,312 Speaker 2: Essentially forever, right, What. 219 00:14:52,192 --> 00:14:54,672 Speaker 1: Do you think your mom saw in him? Because obviously 220 00:14:55,032 --> 00:14:58,312 Speaker 1: you and your siblings were in love with him. You 221 00:14:58,312 --> 00:15:00,472 Speaker 1: were on the outside, so you could say all of 222 00:15:00,472 --> 00:15:02,272 Speaker 1: this stuff happening, But she was in love with him. 223 00:15:02,272 --> 00:15:03,912 Speaker 1: What do you think she saw in him? 224 00:15:04,752 --> 00:15:14,512 Speaker 2: He was rather good looking. I guess for it's hard 225 00:15:14,592 --> 00:15:18,952 Speaker 2: to say that because he's not my type. I've never 226 00:15:19,072 --> 00:15:26,072 Speaker 2: seen him. How can I be attracted to my mom's man? 227 00:15:26,352 --> 00:15:29,112 Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I guess I could think, like, oh, 228 00:15:29,152 --> 00:15:32,112 Speaker 2: like he's a good looking man, like George Clooney. He's 229 00:15:32,152 --> 00:15:33,112 Speaker 2: a good looking man. 230 00:15:33,792 --> 00:15:36,392 Speaker 1: He obviously traded her. Well, do you think he even 231 00:15:36,472 --> 00:15:40,032 Speaker 1: loved bombed her? Like he just kind of doted on 232 00:15:40,072 --> 00:15:42,952 Speaker 1: her so much that she didn't see the bad sides. Oh? 233 00:15:43,032 --> 00:15:46,312 Speaker 2: Yes, No, he definitely love bombed her. He would give 234 00:15:46,352 --> 00:15:50,872 Speaker 2: her coffee drinks every morning. He would just give her 235 00:15:50,992 --> 00:15:55,192 Speaker 2: all this praise and affection. And when you're getting that 236 00:15:55,352 --> 00:16:00,432 Speaker 2: hit of dopamine in oxytocin, then you're just kind of 237 00:16:00,472 --> 00:16:03,832 Speaker 2: glued at first, and you're thinking, oh my gosh, this 238 00:16:03,912 --> 00:16:06,832 Speaker 2: person's going to be a great partner. So he was 239 00:16:06,872 --> 00:16:10,272 Speaker 2: love bombing her and doing all the things that a 240 00:16:10,352 --> 00:16:13,072 Speaker 2: guy should do in her relationship. 241 00:16:13,152 --> 00:16:27,832 Speaker 1: At first, things kind of kept spiraling after Thanksgiving, you know. 242 00:16:27,992 --> 00:16:30,592 Speaker 1: Then we go into Christmas and he was really trying 243 00:16:30,632 --> 00:16:34,512 Speaker 1: to poison yours and your sister's relationship with your mom, 244 00:16:34,592 --> 00:16:34,992 Speaker 1: wasn't he. 245 00:16:36,072 --> 00:16:40,152 Speaker 2: Yes, No, he was starting to isolate my mom away 246 00:16:40,192 --> 00:16:42,872 Speaker 2: from her family, because that was one of the steps 247 00:16:42,912 --> 00:16:47,752 Speaker 2: of trauma bonding her is getting her isolated and away 248 00:16:47,792 --> 00:16:50,832 Speaker 2: from her family. So then he's going to start to 249 00:16:50,872 --> 00:16:54,792 Speaker 2: bring up problems about the kids, be like, oh, the 250 00:16:54,872 --> 00:16:58,032 Speaker 2: kids are like this, and also he was saying that 251 00:16:58,432 --> 00:17:01,312 Speaker 2: the kids wanted your money and this and that, and 252 00:17:02,072 --> 00:17:06,032 Speaker 2: also he would take my mom's gift cards and style 253 00:17:06,432 --> 00:17:10,872 Speaker 2: and then just blame it on us, which is funny 254 00:17:10,992 --> 00:17:16,032 Speaker 2: because we weren't around, so how was that possible? But 255 00:17:16,831 --> 00:17:23,112 Speaker 2: John was so good at convincing someone that their reality 256 00:17:23,512 --> 00:17:25,952 Speaker 2: was a different reality, you know, he was so good 257 00:17:25,952 --> 00:17:26,871 Speaker 2: at gaslighting. 258 00:17:27,351 --> 00:17:30,512 Speaker 1: They ended up getting married quite quickly as well. Do 259 00:17:30,591 --> 00:17:32,631 Speaker 1: you remember when you found out about that, because they 260 00:17:32,671 --> 00:17:34,311 Speaker 1: also tried to keep that a bit of a secret 261 00:17:34,391 --> 00:17:34,911 Speaker 1: for a while. 262 00:17:35,591 --> 00:17:38,632 Speaker 2: Yeah, when we hired the private investigator, we ended up 263 00:17:38,712 --> 00:17:43,111 Speaker 2: finding out that my mom was married to him, and 264 00:17:43,192 --> 00:17:45,471 Speaker 2: we knew then that it was going to be so 265 00:17:45,631 --> 00:17:49,672 Speaker 2: much harder for her to leave this relationship. And that 266 00:17:49,952 --> 00:17:54,831 Speaker 2: was a little that was like about a week after 267 00:17:55,992 --> 00:18:01,512 Speaker 2: the incident with Thanksgiving, that's when they got married. Yes, 268 00:18:01,591 --> 00:18:03,112 Speaker 2: about a week after Thanksgiving. 269 00:18:03,712 --> 00:18:07,351 Speaker 1: Wow, tell me about hiring that privaty investigator. That's a 270 00:18:07,351 --> 00:18:09,911 Speaker 1: big nick step to be, Like, I don't luck my 271 00:18:09,992 --> 00:18:13,911 Speaker 1: mom's boyfriend to rot. Let's get an expert in here, 272 00:18:13,992 --> 00:18:15,311 Speaker 1: let's find some good. 273 00:18:16,232 --> 00:18:19,671 Speaker 2: Yeah. So my brother in law, he actually hired the 274 00:18:19,752 --> 00:18:25,752 Speaker 2: private investigator, and my sister was also gathering information help 275 00:18:26,391 --> 00:18:29,552 Speaker 2: not helping the private investigator, but just kind of doing 276 00:18:29,591 --> 00:18:38,032 Speaker 2: her own research alongside him. And so my mom ended 277 00:18:38,111 --> 00:18:42,552 Speaker 2: up marrying him, and so we brought the stuff to 278 00:18:42,591 --> 00:18:46,831 Speaker 2: her after that, but we didn't really let her know 279 00:18:47,192 --> 00:18:50,392 Speaker 2: that we knew she was married. We kept that as 280 00:18:50,552 --> 00:18:54,871 Speaker 2: a secret as well. And then all this stuff was 281 00:18:54,911 --> 00:18:58,432 Speaker 2: given to her. She ended up leaving him, living with 282 00:18:58,472 --> 00:19:01,951 Speaker 2: my sister and her children for a while, and then 283 00:19:02,192 --> 00:19:07,631 Speaker 2: my brother in law and then he was actually able 284 00:19:07,712 --> 00:19:12,232 Speaker 2: to convince her that all these things that we found 285 00:19:12,431 --> 00:19:17,512 Speaker 2: were different. John Meehands And it's actually crazy because there 286 00:19:18,071 --> 00:19:19,792 Speaker 2: is a lot of John Miehans out there. 287 00:19:20,911 --> 00:19:23,592 Speaker 1: Can we talk a little bit about what you uncovered, 288 00:19:23,631 --> 00:19:27,351 Speaker 1: because it wasn't just a few misdemeanors. It was an 289 00:19:27,671 --> 00:19:34,991 Speaker 1: extensive criminal history, drug charges, multiple prison stays, a history 290 00:19:35,032 --> 00:19:41,071 Speaker 1: of scamming women, stalking, harassment, restraining orders, theft, like I 291 00:19:41,111 --> 00:19:44,551 Speaker 1: could keep going there was so it was such a 292 00:19:44,671 --> 00:19:49,071 Speaker 1: long list of kind of charges and allegations. How did 293 00:19:49,111 --> 00:19:51,591 Speaker 1: you feel when all of that kind of came to 294 00:19:51,671 --> 00:19:53,071 Speaker 1: light and how did it come to light? 295 00:19:54,512 --> 00:19:59,272 Speaker 2: I think for me, I didn't realize the extent of it, 296 00:19:59,351 --> 00:20:01,631 Speaker 2: but I knew he was bad. I had a bad 297 00:20:01,671 --> 00:20:07,071 Speaker 2: feeling about him. I was living on the edge of 298 00:20:07,192 --> 00:20:12,272 Speaker 2: just being in fear and feeling like someone was going 299 00:20:12,311 --> 00:20:17,952 Speaker 2: to come after me all the time. And so it 300 00:20:18,232 --> 00:20:24,071 Speaker 2: really just confirmed everything that we were feeling and feeling 301 00:20:24,192 --> 00:20:27,951 Speaker 2: like we were crazy thinking because at first my family, 302 00:20:28,272 --> 00:20:31,831 Speaker 2: my other family members, my brother in law and my sister, 303 00:20:32,351 --> 00:20:36,272 Speaker 2: well I have a couple of sisters, but my other sister, 304 00:20:36,391 --> 00:20:40,672 Speaker 2: whose husband hired the private investigator, they just didn't believe 305 00:20:40,831 --> 00:20:44,631 Speaker 2: my sister and I for a minute. So it was 306 00:20:44,752 --> 00:20:50,512 Speaker 2: really I hate to say great, but it was you're 307 00:20:50,552 --> 00:20:52,992 Speaker 2: not crazy with how you're. 308 00:20:52,871 --> 00:20:55,192 Speaker 1: Feeling, right, what's validiting, isn't it? 309 00:20:55,712 --> 00:21:01,152 Speaker 2: Yes? You have fact, yes, and scary, too, super scary. 310 00:21:02,032 --> 00:21:04,071 Speaker 1: Did you have to sit your mom down and kind 311 00:21:04,071 --> 00:21:04,992 Speaker 1: of light this so loud? 312 00:21:06,472 --> 00:21:09,671 Speaker 2: I was living in Vegas at the time, and so 313 00:21:09,952 --> 00:21:14,032 Speaker 2: I didn't sit her down. My brother in law did, 314 00:21:14,552 --> 00:21:18,351 Speaker 2: and I think my sister Jack was there and they 315 00:21:18,591 --> 00:21:23,351 Speaker 2: showed her everything, and then well I think it was 316 00:21:23,391 --> 00:21:27,831 Speaker 2: actually more so my sister and Nicole. She they kind 317 00:21:27,831 --> 00:21:31,111 Speaker 2: of had a conversation with my mom and then my 318 00:21:31,272 --> 00:21:36,751 Speaker 2: mom learned about everything, because I really wasn't there for 319 00:21:36,871 --> 00:21:41,111 Speaker 2: that moment because of just living in a different state. 320 00:21:42,071 --> 00:21:45,872 Speaker 1: And what was the plan? Like, your mom was shocked 321 00:21:45,871 --> 00:21:51,671 Speaker 1: obviously when she saw all of this, and there was 322 00:21:51,792 --> 00:21:53,232 Speaker 1: kind of a bit of a rock Well, we need 323 00:21:53,232 --> 00:21:55,792 Speaker 1: to get you out, we need to extricate you. What 324 00:21:55,871 --> 00:21:57,311 Speaker 1: was that plan? What did that look like? 325 00:21:57,952 --> 00:22:04,351 Speaker 2: So it looked like they had to get this stuff 326 00:22:04,391 --> 00:22:08,711 Speaker 2: out of the Balboa Place because he was now living 327 00:22:08,792 --> 00:22:12,231 Speaker 2: there and they had to move him out as well. 328 00:22:12,431 --> 00:22:16,512 Speaker 2: So one of the days my mom just kind of 329 00:22:16,952 --> 00:22:20,431 Speaker 2: packed everything up, got her stuff out of there, and 330 00:22:20,472 --> 00:22:23,631 Speaker 2: then my dad ended up helping her rents out the 331 00:22:23,831 --> 00:22:27,032 Speaker 2: place to one of his friends, so his friend moved 332 00:22:27,071 --> 00:22:30,272 Speaker 2: in there instead, and then my mom went lived with 333 00:22:30,311 --> 00:22:34,432 Speaker 2: my sister for a moment, so that he could also 334 00:22:34,752 --> 00:22:40,112 Speaker 2: not be around. You know, with the street that they 335 00:22:40,192 --> 00:22:43,311 Speaker 2: live on, it's a cool to sac. Everyone knows each other, 336 00:22:43,992 --> 00:22:47,552 Speaker 2: and so it was also a sense of safety for 337 00:22:47,631 --> 00:22:51,151 Speaker 2: her to be there, especially given everything that she found out, 338 00:22:52,071 --> 00:22:58,871 Speaker 2: and so she just kind of went about her life. 339 00:22:58,952 --> 00:23:01,872 Speaker 2: It just tried to stay a little bit more safe 340 00:23:03,071 --> 00:23:10,592 Speaker 2: because he did it really threaten her or anything quite yet. 341 00:23:11,232 --> 00:23:14,671 Speaker 2: I mean, he would say stuff to her and be 342 00:23:14,911 --> 00:23:19,071 Speaker 2: mean to her and put her down, but he didn't 343 00:23:19,111 --> 00:23:23,351 Speaker 2: come out with the threats quite yet, other than saying 344 00:23:23,431 --> 00:23:29,391 Speaker 2: stuff about my sister and saying that he would shoot 345 00:23:29,431 --> 00:23:33,472 Speaker 2: my sister with a sniper rifle and stuff. But he 346 00:23:33,552 --> 00:23:36,991 Speaker 2: didn't make direct threats to my mom quite yet. It 347 00:23:37,071 --> 00:23:39,431 Speaker 2: was just more so about my sister. 348 00:23:40,992 --> 00:23:46,032 Speaker 1: Did you ever imagine a scenario wish she would go 349 00:23:46,111 --> 00:23:49,151 Speaker 1: back to him, given what you found out and given 350 00:23:49,192 --> 00:23:51,992 Speaker 1: the way he reacted saying stuff like that about your sister. 351 00:23:52,631 --> 00:23:59,871 Speaker 2: Yes, I did, because I was in a toxic relationship before, 352 00:24:00,671 --> 00:24:04,631 Speaker 2: and I was with someone that wasn't a great person, 353 00:24:05,472 --> 00:24:07,831 Speaker 2: and you just want to see the best in them, 354 00:24:08,151 --> 00:24:12,391 Speaker 2: and you know, it takes an average time of a 355 00:24:12,431 --> 00:24:17,991 Speaker 2: woman to leave an abusive relationship seven times, and I 356 00:24:18,032 --> 00:24:21,391 Speaker 2: know so many more women that have literally it's taken 357 00:24:21,472 --> 00:24:24,871 Speaker 2: them twenty times. And you know, there's still women that 358 00:24:24,911 --> 00:24:27,952 Speaker 2: are with their abusers. So it's not easy to leave 359 00:24:27,992 --> 00:24:28,631 Speaker 2: at all, you know. 360 00:24:29,552 --> 00:24:32,231 Speaker 1: I think it's really easy for people to judge something 361 00:24:32,351 --> 00:24:35,432 Speaker 1: like that from the outside if they haven't experienced it. 362 00:24:36,232 --> 00:24:38,032 Speaker 2: Yes, I agree. 363 00:24:38,232 --> 00:24:41,631 Speaker 1: The coercion that's involved, the love bombing that comes in 364 00:24:42,792 --> 00:24:45,071 Speaker 1: ultimately their emotions at the end of the day. 365 00:24:45,752 --> 00:24:49,232 Speaker 2: Right, Yes, And I agree there's even women that I 366 00:24:49,351 --> 00:24:54,552 Speaker 2: come across that are in a coheresive, controlled relationship and 367 00:24:54,752 --> 00:24:57,871 Speaker 2: they are the ones also judging these women. So I 368 00:24:57,911 --> 00:25:04,311 Speaker 2: think it's more just nuanced than that, because it's a 369 00:25:04,351 --> 00:25:08,871 Speaker 2: lot of people also into nile like, oh, that person's 370 00:25:08,952 --> 00:25:12,391 Speaker 2: not a bad person, that person can't be abusive. You 371 00:25:12,391 --> 00:25:15,472 Speaker 2: know how many celebrities do We even see the air 372 00:25:15,591 --> 00:25:21,192 Speaker 2: abusers and because they have this celebrity status and they 373 00:25:21,272 --> 00:25:26,351 Speaker 2: create this familiarity with the brain with people, and people 374 00:25:26,472 --> 00:25:30,752 Speaker 2: cannot think that, say, Armie Hammer is an abuser. 375 00:25:31,792 --> 00:25:33,911 Speaker 1: How did you feel though when you heard that she'd 376 00:25:34,151 --> 00:25:34,792 Speaker 1: gone back. 377 00:25:35,792 --> 00:25:42,552 Speaker 2: I honestly was just like okay, because there was signs, right, 378 00:25:43,032 --> 00:25:45,671 Speaker 2: and we didn't find out right away that she just 379 00:25:45,712 --> 00:25:49,512 Speaker 2: went back. You know, there was a little sneaking around. 380 00:25:49,671 --> 00:25:53,431 Speaker 2: There was like, oh, I'm not available at this time. 381 00:25:53,552 --> 00:25:55,671 Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, why are you not available? 382 00:25:56,192 --> 00:25:58,671 Speaker 1: Did you have much to do with your mom? Because 383 00:25:58,671 --> 00:26:00,191 Speaker 1: she kind of went back and it was like another 384 00:26:00,272 --> 00:26:04,192 Speaker 1: night or so months that she was with him. Did 385 00:26:04,232 --> 00:26:06,071 Speaker 1: you see them much? Were you involved? 386 00:26:07,151 --> 00:26:10,232 Speaker 2: So she was like with him for five months? 387 00:26:10,831 --> 00:26:11,231 Speaker 1: Oh up? 388 00:26:12,151 --> 00:26:16,351 Speaker 2: So five months what she was like originally with him 389 00:26:17,272 --> 00:26:20,591 Speaker 2: and then she left him found all all the stuff 390 00:26:20,631 --> 00:26:26,111 Speaker 2: about him because she literally met him in like September 391 00:26:27,431 --> 00:26:32,311 Speaker 2: and then like November. So you might be right with 392 00:26:32,391 --> 00:26:37,631 Speaker 2: like the six weeks meeting him September and then like 393 00:26:37,671 --> 00:26:41,992 Speaker 2: a week or two later they get married after Thanksgiving, 394 00:26:42,952 --> 00:26:51,552 Speaker 2: and then she leaves him March seventh, and then they 395 00:26:51,671 --> 00:26:54,911 Speaker 2: get back together, but I think it takes like a 396 00:26:54,952 --> 00:27:00,192 Speaker 2: couple months and then literally she leaves him again on 397 00:27:00,272 --> 00:27:01,911 Speaker 2: March seventh. The next year. 398 00:27:05,151 --> 00:27:08,831 Speaker 1: You're listening to True Cra Conversations with me Jemba buff 399 00:27:09,311 --> 00:27:12,391 Speaker 1: I'm speaking with Tara Yule, who fatally stabbed her mother's 400 00:27:12,391 --> 00:27:15,431 Speaker 1: a strange husband in twenty sixteen in an act of 401 00:27:15,472 --> 00:27:19,671 Speaker 1: self defense. Up next, Tara tells us about the second time, 402 00:27:19,831 --> 00:27:23,391 Speaker 1: her mother decided to leave John, this time for good. 403 00:27:25,792 --> 00:27:28,351 Speaker 1: So they've been together for you know, over a year 404 00:27:28,391 --> 00:27:32,392 Speaker 1: by then, with a break in between. The second time 405 00:27:32,431 --> 00:27:36,111 Speaker 1: your mum left though, she was quite scared, wasn't she. 406 00:27:37,151 --> 00:27:41,472 Speaker 2: Yes, No, we found out more information because by this 407 00:27:41,631 --> 00:27:45,752 Speaker 2: time we're finding out more so his rap sheet and 408 00:27:45,871 --> 00:27:50,032 Speaker 2: everything is true because before he took her to a 409 00:27:50,111 --> 00:27:53,351 Speaker 2: lawyer and the lawyer explained like, oh, these are different 410 00:27:53,431 --> 00:27:56,552 Speaker 2: John me Hans as well, So he had a lawyer 411 00:27:56,552 --> 00:27:59,911 Speaker 2: in his pocket. Because John's favorite thing to do was 412 00:27:59,952 --> 00:28:04,592 Speaker 2: get lawyers disbarred. He just loved to like threaten them, 413 00:28:04,911 --> 00:28:07,432 Speaker 2: say I'm gonna do this, and he was very successful 414 00:28:07,472 --> 00:28:10,111 Speaker 2: at getting several lawyers di barred as well. 415 00:28:11,311 --> 00:28:15,031 Speaker 1: So he would use that to kind of coerce your 416 00:28:15,071 --> 00:28:17,351 Speaker 1: mom and i'm assuming of the women into thinking he 417 00:28:17,472 --> 00:28:21,552 Speaker 1: was a quote unquote good guy. Oh yes, oh yes, 418 00:28:21,671 --> 00:28:24,912 Speaker 1: so your mom left for that second time. How did 419 00:28:24,952 --> 00:28:27,432 Speaker 1: he react then? Was that when the threat started coming in? 420 00:28:28,272 --> 00:28:32,151 Speaker 2: Yes, that's when the threats really started coming in because 421 00:28:32,391 --> 00:28:36,151 Speaker 2: he even said to my mom, hit me, hit me, 422 00:28:36,712 --> 00:28:40,072 Speaker 2: and then basically telling her if she hit him, she 423 00:28:40,072 --> 00:28:44,152 Speaker 2: would never get up again. But he wanted her to 424 00:28:44,232 --> 00:28:47,152 Speaker 2: hit him, you know, she left, and she left with 425 00:28:47,272 --> 00:28:51,192 Speaker 2: like one shoe and a bag full of stuff. And 426 00:28:51,752 --> 00:28:54,272 Speaker 2: by this time they got a dog together, and now 427 00:28:54,272 --> 00:28:57,632 Speaker 2: they're living at their Irvine Spectrum and they also have 428 00:28:57,752 --> 00:29:00,992 Speaker 2: a house in Vegas as well together. And so this 429 00:29:01,112 --> 00:29:05,031 Speaker 2: time my mom went and met up with my sister Jacqueline, 430 00:29:05,512 --> 00:29:08,952 Speaker 2: and they drove straight to Vegas to go get the stuff. 431 00:29:08,992 --> 00:29:12,792 Speaker 2: They called up my mom's workers, and my mom's workers 432 00:29:12,832 --> 00:29:16,911 Speaker 2: were great and just there for her as well, and 433 00:29:16,872 --> 00:29:20,991 Speaker 2: they go to Vegas. My sister films everything and then 434 00:29:21,032 --> 00:29:28,072 Speaker 2: they pack up the house and so I I'm just 435 00:29:28,112 --> 00:29:31,792 Speaker 2: getting phone calls and hearing like, Okay, Mom got her stuff. 436 00:29:32,472 --> 00:29:35,472 Speaker 2: Jacquelin's more so calling me and being like we got 437 00:29:35,552 --> 00:29:38,832 Speaker 2: all the stuff. I filmed everything so that Shawn doesn't 438 00:29:38,872 --> 00:29:42,592 Speaker 2: have evidence or think that we ruined everything. Everything was 439 00:29:42,712 --> 00:29:46,072 Speaker 2: kind of calculated at this point because we knew that 440 00:29:46,272 --> 00:29:51,472 Speaker 2: he was a bad person and that he could literally 441 00:29:52,431 --> 00:29:56,272 Speaker 2: screw us over, and so we wanted to be very 442 00:29:56,312 --> 00:30:02,272 Speaker 2: careful and just document everything. And then my mom ended 443 00:30:02,352 --> 00:30:08,032 Speaker 2: up living with my sister up until he came after me, 444 00:30:08,992 --> 00:30:12,951 Speaker 2: and then well we were still living together even after 445 00:30:13,192 --> 00:30:14,511 Speaker 2: John came after me. 446 00:30:15,152 --> 00:30:18,312 Speaker 1: Did she involve the police at this stage. 447 00:30:19,632 --> 00:30:22,712 Speaker 2: Yes, No, my mom was trying to get restraining orders. 448 00:30:23,352 --> 00:30:27,312 Speaker 2: John had also lit her jag wire and fire and 449 00:30:27,431 --> 00:30:31,511 Speaker 2: Irvine and there was a police report and a detective 450 00:30:31,712 --> 00:30:36,271 Speaker 2: was working on that as well, and so there was 451 00:30:36,992 --> 00:30:41,752 Speaker 2: lots of reports. But and I even made a report 452 00:30:41,872 --> 00:30:45,191 Speaker 2: about John too as well, because now I was back 453 00:30:45,232 --> 00:30:49,832 Speaker 2: in Newport. I broke my ex broke up with me, 454 00:30:50,792 --> 00:30:55,352 Speaker 2: and so I was just we were all kind of 455 00:30:55,392 --> 00:31:00,592 Speaker 2: in the same area now, and the police just wouldn't 456 00:31:00,671 --> 00:31:04,112 Speaker 2: take us seriously, even though this guy had a wrap. 457 00:31:04,192 --> 00:31:09,112 Speaker 2: She And then I remember my sister called the police, Jacqueline, 458 00:31:09,152 --> 00:31:12,192 Speaker 2: and we were living in the same apartment complex at 459 00:31:12,192 --> 00:31:16,432 Speaker 2: this time, and I just remember the cop coming and 460 00:31:16,992 --> 00:31:20,671 Speaker 2: telling us basically that you needed three harassment suits in 461 00:31:20,792 --> 00:31:23,312 Speaker 2: order to get a restraining order against someone here in 462 00:31:23,392 --> 00:31:24,951 Speaker 2: the States or in California. 463 00:31:25,192 --> 00:31:28,152 Speaker 1: Three Yes, so someone can do it one time, they 464 00:31:28,152 --> 00:31:31,191 Speaker 1: can do it a second time. A the time is 465 00:31:31,232 --> 00:31:35,192 Speaker 1: when they'll act. Yes, that's wild, isn't it? 466 00:31:35,952 --> 00:31:40,792 Speaker 2: Uh huh? Yeah? Now, but it's it's interesting because the 467 00:31:40,832 --> 00:31:47,432 Speaker 2: perpetrators here are more protected than anything. You know, if 468 00:31:47,512 --> 00:31:56,672 Speaker 2: you're a victim, you're basically questioned about everything yeah, you're 469 00:31:56,752 --> 00:32:02,072 Speaker 2: not believed, like you have to prove that this happened 470 00:32:02,112 --> 00:32:02,512 Speaker 2: to you. 471 00:32:03,992 --> 00:32:08,191 Speaker 1: Do you remember feeling why about your safety during this 472 00:32:08,312 --> 00:32:11,832 Speaker 1: time or was your assumption that if something would have happened, 473 00:32:11,872 --> 00:32:14,552 Speaker 1: it was going to happen to your mom or say Jacqueline, 474 00:32:14,552 --> 00:32:19,792 Speaker 1: because really you were the one that he hated the most, 475 00:32:19,911 --> 00:32:23,312 Speaker 1: Like he was kind of Jacqueline was off in his 476 00:32:23,352 --> 00:32:25,991 Speaker 1: grill a lot more. Even your other sister was a 477 00:32:26,032 --> 00:32:29,632 Speaker 1: lot more. You were kind of not as antagonistic with him. 478 00:32:30,832 --> 00:32:34,191 Speaker 2: See, well, my other sister didn't really have anything. She 479 00:32:34,352 --> 00:32:36,352 Speaker 2: just kind of did the work, pointed out to my 480 00:32:36,472 --> 00:32:39,272 Speaker 2: mom and then tried to put boundaries with my mom. 481 00:32:40,312 --> 00:32:43,472 Speaker 2: But Jacqueline him would just get into it. They would 482 00:32:43,552 --> 00:32:46,992 Speaker 2: text each other things. They would literally like Jacqueline send 483 00:32:46,992 --> 00:32:49,951 Speaker 2: the shit Melviji to him. He would send her a 484 00:32:49,992 --> 00:32:53,312 Speaker 2: picture of her birth certificate was spit on it. And 485 00:32:53,352 --> 00:33:00,471 Speaker 2: then I I was trying to be like, oh, I 486 00:33:00,512 --> 00:33:03,232 Speaker 2: would love to have a conversation with him. I would 487 00:33:03,272 --> 00:33:08,032 Speaker 2: love to work things out with him, to also show 488 00:33:08,152 --> 00:33:11,712 Speaker 2: that I was willing to work on things. However he 489 00:33:11,952 --> 00:33:12,392 Speaker 2: was not. 490 00:33:13,552 --> 00:33:16,872 Speaker 1: I wanted to kind of touch on, you know, coming 491 00:33:16,872 --> 00:33:21,592 Speaker 1: into August of twenty sixteen, your sister caught John watching 492 00:33:22,072 --> 00:33:25,312 Speaker 1: the house or so it started to get a little 493 00:33:25,352 --> 00:33:28,112 Speaker 1: bit more kind of scary at that point, and your 494 00:33:28,112 --> 00:33:29,392 Speaker 1: sister was really monitoring it. 495 00:33:30,232 --> 00:33:32,671 Speaker 2: Yes. No, And this was literally just a day or 496 00:33:32,712 --> 00:33:37,632 Speaker 2: two prior. And then she chased him down with her 497 00:33:37,671 --> 00:33:42,392 Speaker 2: friend on the freeway or like he got onto the 498 00:33:42,392 --> 00:33:43,872 Speaker 2: freeway and then they lost him. 499 00:33:45,552 --> 00:33:48,872 Speaker 1: So it was days later that you found yourself face 500 00:33:48,911 --> 00:33:50,032 Speaker 1: to face with him. 501 00:33:51,512 --> 00:33:55,352 Speaker 2: Yes, or just like a day or two Yes, Because 502 00:33:55,392 --> 00:34:01,432 Speaker 2: my sister had that happen, saw John, and then she 503 00:34:01,632 --> 00:34:05,911 Speaker 2: kicked my apartment right afterwards, did kind of a little 504 00:34:05,952 --> 00:34:09,392 Speaker 2: scam and was like, Okay, Tara has work in the morning, 505 00:34:09,992 --> 00:34:13,792 Speaker 2: I'm not going to bother her because I worked at 506 00:34:13,832 --> 00:34:15,872 Speaker 2: seven am the next day. Wow. 507 00:34:16,511 --> 00:34:18,832 Speaker 1: I know that. At the start, you said that you 508 00:34:18,951 --> 00:34:21,752 Speaker 1: find it hard to think about the details of that time. 509 00:34:22,672 --> 00:34:24,592 Speaker 1: Does it creep up on you? Do you still dream 510 00:34:24,632 --> 00:34:28,272 Speaker 1: about it? Is it something that kind of catches you 511 00:34:28,312 --> 00:34:31,031 Speaker 1: off gods still? Or have you been able to move on? 512 00:34:31,832 --> 00:34:36,511 Speaker 2: There are times if I'm going through our hard moments, 513 00:34:36,872 --> 00:34:41,872 Speaker 2: it's funny because relationships just love to bring up your trauma. 514 00:34:42,471 --> 00:34:42,752 Speaker 1: Yep. 515 00:34:43,592 --> 00:34:48,312 Speaker 2: And I if something happens with my relationship. Well, I'm 516 00:34:48,352 --> 00:34:50,951 Speaker 2: not in a relationship at the moment, but I was 517 00:34:51,112 --> 00:34:57,192 Speaker 2: with another survivor, and when he broke up with me, 518 00:34:57,471 --> 00:35:02,591 Speaker 2: I remember seeing I remember that I had blood in 519 00:35:02,592 --> 00:35:05,392 Speaker 2: my hair for three days or like two days or whatever, 520 00:35:05,872 --> 00:35:07,991 Speaker 2: because I I was in the hospital for a couple 521 00:35:08,031 --> 00:35:12,152 Speaker 2: of days and I didn't take a shower or anything 522 00:35:12,192 --> 00:35:15,712 Speaker 2: in the hospital, So when I came home there was 523 00:35:15,712 --> 00:35:18,592 Speaker 2: a white I had a white marble shower at the time, 524 00:35:19,112 --> 00:35:22,312 Speaker 2: and I just remember seeing the blood go down the drain. 525 00:35:22,551 --> 00:35:27,832 Speaker 2: And it's interesting too because now since like the breakup, 526 00:35:29,192 --> 00:35:34,071 Speaker 2: if I see a show or anything where that happens, 527 00:35:34,431 --> 00:35:38,512 Speaker 2: it just brings me back to that moment. And then 528 00:35:38,712 --> 00:35:44,671 Speaker 2: I think, also the breakup kind of I can't go 529 00:35:44,991 --> 00:35:51,152 Speaker 2: to these certain moments anymore because it did really affect 530 00:35:51,312 --> 00:35:56,791 Speaker 2: my relationships at times, and I was living in fight 531 00:35:56,872 --> 00:35:59,672 Speaker 2: mode and I would just be on edge and not 532 00:35:59,832 --> 00:36:03,912 Speaker 2: be working on my trauma as much or just be likely. 533 00:36:05,752 --> 00:36:08,272 Speaker 2: I told so to fuck off at a festival before 534 00:36:08,951 --> 00:36:12,272 Speaker 2: and then all their followers came after me, and so 535 00:36:12,471 --> 00:36:15,192 Speaker 2: it just it doesn't benefit me to live in that 536 00:36:15,272 --> 00:36:19,072 Speaker 2: trauma anymore. And I definitely don't want to be telling 537 00:36:19,112 --> 00:36:20,792 Speaker 2: someone to fuck off at a festival. 538 00:36:21,392 --> 00:36:23,592 Speaker 1: Were you telling them to fuck off because they asked 539 00:36:23,632 --> 00:36:24,031 Speaker 1: about it? 540 00:36:25,192 --> 00:36:28,472 Speaker 2: No, they were literally arguing with my boyfriend at the time, 541 00:36:28,672 --> 00:36:31,592 Speaker 2: and so I just wanted them to stop arguing. 542 00:36:32,911 --> 00:36:34,991 Speaker 1: You said that you were in a relationship with someone 543 00:36:34,991 --> 00:36:38,471 Speaker 1: that was also a survivor at the start. Was that 544 00:36:38,511 --> 00:36:41,272 Speaker 1: a comfort being with someone that had also been through 545 00:36:41,352 --> 00:36:44,392 Speaker 1: something that was traumatic or did it make things harder? 546 00:36:45,511 --> 00:36:50,672 Speaker 2: Absolutely? Like, it was amazing, And it still is great 547 00:36:50,752 --> 00:36:54,431 Speaker 2: to have him as a friend in that friendship because 548 00:36:54,672 --> 00:36:57,712 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, it's funny because I 549 00:36:57,832 --> 00:37:02,671 Speaker 2: feel like, no matter who I'm with, that person's not 550 00:37:02,712 --> 00:37:06,712 Speaker 2: going to understand that part. And that's like in dating 551 00:37:06,832 --> 00:37:11,392 Speaker 2: before him, that was always my struggle with finding someone 552 00:37:11,632 --> 00:37:15,512 Speaker 2: is that you just did that person just didn't get 553 00:37:15,672 --> 00:37:20,032 Speaker 2: that trauma fully. And I'm sure like the guys I 554 00:37:20,152 --> 00:37:24,792 Speaker 2: dated like could have empathy for it, but call your 555 00:37:25,112 --> 00:37:31,392 Speaker 2: really got sharing our stories. Yeah, you know, and then 556 00:37:31,592 --> 00:37:34,671 Speaker 2: I think, you know, that relationship could have worked out 557 00:37:34,832 --> 00:37:39,031 Speaker 2: if we were in a different spot or whatever. But 558 00:37:40,112 --> 00:37:43,912 Speaker 2: I think that I definitely I only want to speak 559 00:37:43,951 --> 00:37:47,551 Speaker 2: for myself because you know, I appreciate him. He's an 560 00:37:47,551 --> 00:37:51,272 Speaker 2: amazing person, just you know, and I want to respect 561 00:37:51,312 --> 00:37:54,232 Speaker 2: his privacy in it. But for me, I definitely need 562 00:37:54,272 --> 00:37:57,551 Speaker 2: to work on my trauma and get myself to a 563 00:37:57,551 --> 00:37:59,551 Speaker 2: better homeostasis. 564 00:38:00,072 --> 00:38:04,431 Speaker 1: Well, Callia was also your co host, and you were 565 00:38:04,752 --> 00:38:09,312 Speaker 1: working together talking to other people about their trauma, so 566 00:38:09,792 --> 00:38:11,872 Speaker 1: you know, that's a lot to take on also, like 567 00:38:12,232 --> 00:38:15,632 Speaker 1: dealing with your own dealing with other people's trauma or 568 00:38:15,752 --> 00:38:17,832 Speaker 1: was that helpful hearing other people's stories? 569 00:38:18,911 --> 00:38:22,911 Speaker 2: It was honestly so great. I mean, at times you 570 00:38:23,031 --> 00:38:26,472 Speaker 2: do have to take a mental health break, you know, stop. 571 00:38:26,872 --> 00:38:31,072 Speaker 2: I mean, we were really great about recording episodes because 572 00:38:31,872 --> 00:38:34,592 Speaker 2: we would take pockets. We would record for a time 573 00:38:34,672 --> 00:38:37,551 Speaker 2: period and then we would take a break, and then 574 00:38:37,832 --> 00:38:40,791 Speaker 2: we were able to also just focus on our own 575 00:38:40,832 --> 00:38:45,392 Speaker 2: mental health, but also be able to be in that 576 00:38:45,511 --> 00:38:51,912 Speaker 2: spot to hear the story and also relate with everyone else. 577 00:38:52,031 --> 00:38:56,951 Speaker 2: And it really actually made me at least feel like 578 00:38:57,152 --> 00:39:00,911 Speaker 2: I wasn't alone in my trauma because for so long 579 00:39:01,471 --> 00:39:04,631 Speaker 2: I kind of thought I was the only survivor or 580 00:39:04,712 --> 00:39:08,792 Speaker 2: only person with a troupe story. And then you go 581 00:39:08,872 --> 00:39:13,192 Speaker 2: and you meet other people and you realize you're not 582 00:39:13,392 --> 00:39:14,832 Speaker 2: so special. 583 00:39:16,232 --> 00:39:19,031 Speaker 1: Or you are special, but I guess it makes you 584 00:39:19,752 --> 00:39:23,232 Speaker 1: the emotions you're feeling, and even like that that visual 585 00:39:23,312 --> 00:39:26,792 Speaker 1: that you recalled earlier about seeing the blood, And I'm 586 00:39:26,832 --> 00:39:29,232 Speaker 1: sure there are other people that have visceral memories like 587 00:39:29,272 --> 00:39:31,192 Speaker 1: that that they're like, why is that the thing that 588 00:39:31,272 --> 00:39:33,111 Speaker 1: kind of comes back to me? It's not even the 589 00:39:33,192 --> 00:39:36,431 Speaker 1: moment from but it's like something that happened after. And 590 00:39:36,471 --> 00:39:40,631 Speaker 1: I'm sure you're able to relate like strange things that 591 00:39:40,672 --> 00:39:44,952 Speaker 1: your brain does. Oh yrama with these people. 592 00:39:45,312 --> 00:39:48,272 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah no so and it's just 593 00:39:48,392 --> 00:39:51,031 Speaker 2: crazy because you're like, oh, that happens to you, That 594 00:39:51,192 --> 00:39:55,792 Speaker 2: happens to me, and you're just able to relate and 595 00:39:56,511 --> 00:39:59,672 Speaker 2: honestly create a survivor squad and. 596 00:39:59,632 --> 00:40:01,151 Speaker 1: Which is the name of your podcast? 597 00:40:01,551 --> 00:40:05,352 Speaker 2: Yes? Which is the name, and just have a community 598 00:40:05,471 --> 00:40:08,991 Speaker 2: where you guys can not feel so alone, you know, 599 00:40:09,232 --> 00:40:13,552 Speaker 2: like Brene Brown says, when you're vulnerable and you share 600 00:40:13,752 --> 00:40:18,991 Speaker 2: your vulnerability, is like, it doesn't make it so lonely anymore. 601 00:40:19,272 --> 00:40:23,591 Speaker 1: Yeah. I want to rewind a little bit because there 602 00:40:23,632 --> 00:40:25,792 Speaker 1: is one aspect I want to talk to you about, 603 00:40:25,872 --> 00:40:28,832 Speaker 1: which is how on earth you learn to self defense? 604 00:40:29,031 --> 00:40:31,071 Speaker 1: Because I find this fascinating and it's something I think 605 00:40:31,112 --> 00:40:35,672 Speaker 1: we all think about. But you actually put it into action. 606 00:40:36,031 --> 00:40:39,751 Speaker 1: You learned how to defend yourself from watching TV. 607 00:40:41,031 --> 00:40:45,911 Speaker 2: Yes, I am a huge TV nerd. I love The 608 00:40:46,031 --> 00:40:51,071 Speaker 2: Walking Dad and so that is where I learned to 609 00:40:51,232 --> 00:40:55,031 Speaker 2: zombie killed John. I'm sorry, it's hard to see that 610 00:40:55,112 --> 00:40:56,472 Speaker 2: without laughing. 611 00:40:56,592 --> 00:41:01,592 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's not like you you would have practiced this stuff, 612 00:41:02,232 --> 00:41:07,031 Speaker 1: like I'm assuming you would have watched the show and 613 00:41:07,072 --> 00:41:08,271 Speaker 1: it just sticks in your head. 614 00:41:09,112 --> 00:41:13,031 Speaker 2: I mean, there is a few times where my not 615 00:41:14,352 --> 00:41:18,031 Speaker 2: my last eggs call year, but my eggs. Jimmy and 616 00:41:18,072 --> 00:41:22,272 Speaker 2: I would go and literally get like watermelons and you 617 00:41:22,312 --> 00:41:28,232 Speaker 2: know that scene in Stepbrothers where they're just like cutting watermelons. Yes, 618 00:41:29,471 --> 00:41:31,872 Speaker 2: we wanted to do that. So there was a few 619 00:41:31,911 --> 00:41:35,271 Speaker 2: times where we did that, and I had a lot 620 00:41:35,272 --> 00:41:40,711 Speaker 2: of knives because I was always preparing for a zombie apocalypse. 621 00:41:42,352 --> 00:41:45,952 Speaker 1: But I do think that's fascinating that you were able 622 00:41:45,991 --> 00:41:49,591 Speaker 1: to rely on. It's not like something this is something 623 00:41:49,672 --> 00:41:52,352 Speaker 1: you studied. You didn't go to a self defense class. 624 00:41:52,392 --> 00:41:55,991 Speaker 1: You load it from a TV show about zombies. 625 00:41:56,911 --> 00:42:00,832 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, well, I just watched The Walking Dead so much. 626 00:42:01,192 --> 00:42:03,712 Speaker 2: I would watch the episode when it came out, then 627 00:42:03,752 --> 00:42:05,951 Speaker 2: I would watch the episode after, and then I would 628 00:42:05,951 --> 00:42:08,071 Speaker 2: watch The Talking Dead and then I would watch the 629 00:42:08,112 --> 00:42:11,071 Speaker 2: episode one more time again that night. 630 00:42:11,431 --> 00:42:16,071 Speaker 1: Look good on you, My gosh, what did healing look like? 631 00:42:16,112 --> 00:42:18,832 Speaker 1: We've touched on what it's looked like for you, but 632 00:42:18,872 --> 00:42:21,392 Speaker 1: what does it look like for your family? Because really, 633 00:42:22,232 --> 00:42:23,912 Speaker 1: you know, your mom would have had her own jotey, 634 00:42:24,072 --> 00:42:26,432 Speaker 1: but also your family unit had a lot of healing 635 00:42:26,511 --> 00:42:27,632 Speaker 1: to do. 636 00:42:27,832 --> 00:42:31,952 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think that it really made us look 637 00:42:32,152 --> 00:42:37,392 Speaker 2: at the generational trauma even in our family because there 638 00:42:37,551 --> 00:42:41,951 Speaker 2: was a murder before my aunt was murdered by her husband. 639 00:42:42,712 --> 00:42:51,632 Speaker 2: And it's interesting to because like my cousins were about 640 00:42:51,672 --> 00:42:56,752 Speaker 2: the same age as Collier even and it's interesting to 641 00:42:57,072 --> 00:43:04,432 Speaker 2: see how family dynamics even affect Like I don't think 642 00:43:04,511 --> 00:43:10,672 Speaker 2: it was helpful my grandma to take in my cousins 643 00:43:10,832 --> 00:43:14,312 Speaker 2: and then for their dad to also get custody of 644 00:43:14,352 --> 00:43:17,352 Speaker 2: them after he got out of jail. I don't think 645 00:43:17,392 --> 00:43:21,792 Speaker 2: that that was helpful to them. And it just shows 646 00:43:21,832 --> 00:43:27,872 Speaker 2: a difference even how Caller was put into a foster home. 647 00:43:28,232 --> 00:43:32,272 Speaker 2: And so it shows even that because I think Coller 648 00:43:32,392 --> 00:43:36,192 Speaker 2: has a better view about his situation or was able 649 00:43:36,232 --> 00:43:37,832 Speaker 2: to cope a little bit better. 650 00:43:38,551 --> 00:43:41,792 Speaker 1: To listeners that don't know Collia had a similar situation 651 00:43:41,951 --> 00:43:47,192 Speaker 1: happened to your aunt in that his dad killed his mom. Yes, 652 00:43:47,352 --> 00:43:49,671 Speaker 1: so similar dynamic that he was dealing with. 653 00:43:50,431 --> 00:43:53,791 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, seeing the two similarity is I 654 00:43:53,832 --> 00:43:58,792 Speaker 2: think that there are a lot of dynamics in my 655 00:43:59,031 --> 00:44:07,031 Speaker 2: family where maybe the men have been doted on and 656 00:44:08,152 --> 00:44:12,151 Speaker 2: praised upon and the women had to appease to everything 657 00:44:12,392 --> 00:44:17,792 Speaker 2: and kind of just look over what was toxic. 658 00:44:19,152 --> 00:44:22,151 Speaker 1: So do you think that your generation now and even 659 00:44:22,192 --> 00:44:26,312 Speaker 1: your mom as well like can learn from that because 660 00:44:26,352 --> 00:44:31,712 Speaker 1: it has been blasted in such a big way. Is 661 00:44:31,712 --> 00:44:37,151 Speaker 1: that helpful? Is that a helpful outcome to actually focus on? Yes? 662 00:44:37,312 --> 00:44:40,992 Speaker 2: No, I think so one hundred percent, because my mom 663 00:44:41,112 --> 00:44:45,191 Speaker 2: and I have been able to have so many great conversations. 664 00:44:45,832 --> 00:44:50,312 Speaker 2: And my grandma even passed away this year, and you know, 665 00:44:50,471 --> 00:44:54,471 Speaker 2: she was a lovely lady, but she wasn't perfect, and 666 00:44:54,752 --> 00:45:00,991 Speaker 2: especially in the sense of her testifying for my aunt, 667 00:45:01,152 --> 00:45:06,352 Speaker 2: her daughter's abuser who murdered her. And so I I 668 00:45:06,431 --> 00:45:09,872 Speaker 2: think that my mom has really been able to also 669 00:45:10,872 --> 00:45:14,952 Speaker 2: take a step back and also say like that was wrong, 670 00:45:15,152 --> 00:45:17,592 Speaker 2: and my mom to do that, I mean, I still 671 00:45:17,632 --> 00:45:21,472 Speaker 2: love her as a person, but I don't necessarily agree 672 00:45:21,511 --> 00:45:27,951 Speaker 2: with her doing that and forgiving my sister's killer. So 673 00:45:28,152 --> 00:45:32,072 Speaker 2: I think that those conversations have been great to have, 674 00:45:32,392 --> 00:45:36,911 Speaker 2: and then just realizing because my mom is a big appeaser, 675 00:45:38,431 --> 00:45:42,471 Speaker 2: I'm a big appeaser, and just pointing that out and 676 00:45:42,592 --> 00:45:48,911 Speaker 2: noticing how we're breaking those generational curses in trauma. 677 00:45:49,072 --> 00:45:55,392 Speaker 1: Your story and your mom's story blew up on a 678 00:45:55,431 --> 00:45:59,071 Speaker 1: podcast called Duddy John and then a you know, a 679 00:45:59,112 --> 00:46:03,272 Speaker 1: Tabase series but You've got you know, Julia Donna playing you, 680 00:46:03,592 --> 00:46:08,792 Speaker 1: and it became internet like, it was just everywhere. I 681 00:46:08,832 --> 00:46:12,472 Speaker 1: don't think I know someone who wouldn't know the name 682 00:46:12,752 --> 00:46:15,471 Speaker 1: or the phrase dirty John. What was that like for 683 00:46:15,551 --> 00:46:19,392 Speaker 1: you living amongst that kind of hype when it's something 684 00:46:19,712 --> 00:46:21,711 Speaker 1: so hectic that happened to you. 685 00:46:22,392 --> 00:46:26,952 Speaker 2: I mean, it's very interesting because working in the TV 686 00:46:26,991 --> 00:46:30,591 Speaker 2: and film industry to begin with, you're always hoping that 687 00:46:30,632 --> 00:46:34,471 Speaker 2: a project is going to get picked up, and you're 688 00:46:34,592 --> 00:46:37,792 Speaker 2: just hoping and praying for that. So when it got 689 00:46:37,832 --> 00:46:41,312 Speaker 2: picked up about my life, I was so excited. Well, 690 00:46:41,352 --> 00:46:44,352 Speaker 2: at first I wanted to have everything under wraps. We 691 00:46:44,431 --> 00:46:47,712 Speaker 2: had lawyers on everything, looking out for our names in 692 00:46:47,752 --> 00:46:50,951 Speaker 2: the news and ready to put gag orders on everything, 693 00:46:51,752 --> 00:46:55,591 Speaker 2: and so, you know, the La Times came to us, 694 00:46:56,511 --> 00:46:59,951 Speaker 2: we really had to give it some thought because it 695 00:47:00,112 --> 00:47:03,192 Speaker 2: is so personal and it is such a huge trauma, 696 00:47:04,031 --> 00:47:06,672 Speaker 2: and we thought that it would just help other people people, 697 00:47:07,272 --> 00:47:11,511 Speaker 2: and so that was really our goal, and so we 698 00:47:11,592 --> 00:47:13,952 Speaker 2: never expected it to be a TV show. We didn't 699 00:47:13,991 --> 00:47:17,712 Speaker 2: really even know what a podcast was whatsoever, to be honest, 700 00:47:18,551 --> 00:47:24,111 Speaker 2: and so it was a huge shock when everything came out, 701 00:47:24,192 --> 00:47:29,031 Speaker 2: because you're listening to this and you're not thinking it's 702 00:47:29,031 --> 00:47:31,752 Speaker 2: going to be as big as it is. You're thinking 703 00:47:31,872 --> 00:47:36,631 Speaker 2: it's gonna be like maybe a few hundred lessons, but 704 00:47:36,832 --> 00:47:40,232 Speaker 2: now it's over like one hundred and seventy million lessons, 705 00:47:40,312 --> 00:47:44,031 Speaker 2: and now they added like another series on top of it. 706 00:47:44,031 --> 00:47:48,112 Speaker 2: It's a shock, and it's just crazy how so many 707 00:47:48,152 --> 00:47:54,392 Speaker 2: people have opinions about your trauma. It's also interesting how 708 00:47:54,951 --> 00:48:01,152 Speaker 2: dirty John has been coined like a term now. Yeah, 709 00:48:01,192 --> 00:48:03,792 Speaker 2: And it's funny because people will tell me, no, that's 710 00:48:03,792 --> 00:48:07,552 Speaker 2: always been a term. I'm like, you know, like dirty 711 00:48:07,592 --> 00:48:08,392 Speaker 2: Harry has. 712 00:48:08,872 --> 00:48:12,752 Speaker 1: But people will now come to you and say I 713 00:48:12,832 --> 00:48:15,591 Speaker 1: dated a dirty John and that sits kind of weirdly with. 714 00:48:15,592 --> 00:48:21,072 Speaker 2: You, Yes, because to me, dirty John was the person 715 00:48:21,192 --> 00:48:24,951 Speaker 2: that I had to kill. I will always live with 716 00:48:25,031 --> 00:48:31,312 Speaker 2: that and I will like, watching someone die is not 717 00:48:31,551 --> 00:48:35,512 Speaker 2: something you ever want to do. If you've ever watched 718 00:48:35,511 --> 00:48:40,912 Speaker 2: someone die from cancer, anything, it's sad. It's so sad. 719 00:48:41,352 --> 00:48:46,192 Speaker 2: And to take someone's life personally, I don't wish that 720 00:48:46,392 --> 00:48:48,911 Speaker 2: upon anyone. I wish I didn't have to do that, 721 00:48:49,832 --> 00:48:54,591 Speaker 2: And unfortunately I was put into a situation where if 722 00:48:54,632 --> 00:48:57,232 Speaker 2: I didn't take his life, I would have been gone 723 00:48:57,352 --> 00:49:02,511 Speaker 2: from this planet. And so I had to do what 724 00:49:02,592 --> 00:49:05,191 Speaker 2: I had to do. But it's not an easy thing 725 00:49:05,352 --> 00:49:10,832 Speaker 2: to live with the trial of everything. And I just 726 00:49:10,911 --> 00:49:15,632 Speaker 2: hope people get that when they say the term dirty John, 727 00:49:16,511 --> 00:49:22,752 Speaker 2: Like the media really point that term, like really just 728 00:49:23,991 --> 00:49:31,352 Speaker 2: made it into kind of not a fad but like, well. 729 00:49:31,192 --> 00:49:34,592 Speaker 1: They lightened it almost into the dating side of things, 730 00:49:34,792 --> 00:49:38,071 Speaker 1: when really this story is so much darker than that. 731 00:49:38,511 --> 00:49:41,431 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know how the Colleen who there's all the 732 00:49:41,551 --> 00:49:45,111 Speaker 2: drama with the colleen who were and it ends with 733 00:49:45,192 --> 00:49:49,592 Speaker 2: that is drama. And how in the PR scheme they 734 00:49:49,632 --> 00:49:55,232 Speaker 2: didn't want to talk about how dark and dreary domestic 735 00:49:55,312 --> 00:49:58,392 Speaker 2: violences or really talk about how like it was about 736 00:49:58,392 --> 00:50:02,872 Speaker 2: domestic violence. It's about that, it's about creating a nice 737 00:50:02,991 --> 00:50:07,992 Speaker 2: pr package for something, and you know, the dirty John, 738 00:50:08,232 --> 00:50:12,231 Speaker 2: it's so catching and it's really Tanya created the term 739 00:50:12,392 --> 00:50:18,112 Speaker 2: from filthy John meehan and then it turns into dirty John, 740 00:50:18,632 --> 00:50:23,632 Speaker 2: and so it's just a transition of how you kind 741 00:50:23,672 --> 00:50:29,832 Speaker 2: of promote stuff and then it like people are able 742 00:50:29,951 --> 00:50:33,112 Speaker 2: to relate to Well, I'm happy that people are able 743 00:50:33,152 --> 00:50:36,832 Speaker 2: to relate to it in the aspect that they had 744 00:50:36,911 --> 00:50:43,312 Speaker 2: someone that was abusive and they saw similarities. But I 745 00:50:43,392 --> 00:50:47,032 Speaker 2: would prefer for them to say I dated a dirty 746 00:50:48,551 --> 00:50:55,631 Speaker 2: Harry or dirty whatever. Yes, And you know, because I 747 00:50:55,712 --> 00:50:57,951 Speaker 2: have so many women that also tell me like, oh 748 00:50:57,951 --> 00:51:00,951 Speaker 2: I dated a dirty a dirty John, and I'm like, oh, 749 00:51:01,031 --> 00:51:05,111 Speaker 2: did they date John meehan? And that gets me confused, 750 00:51:05,272 --> 00:51:09,392 Speaker 2: even though because now I'm like, I wish to connect 751 00:51:09,431 --> 00:51:10,551 Speaker 2: with all the survivors. 752 00:51:11,192 --> 00:51:13,071 Speaker 1: And I know we just did a whole interview about it. 753 00:51:13,112 --> 00:51:16,111 Speaker 1: But are you hopeful that one day you won't be 754 00:51:16,192 --> 00:51:19,431 Speaker 1: asked as many questions about John meehan, that that part 755 00:51:19,471 --> 00:51:22,472 Speaker 1: of your life will be able to stay in the past. 756 00:51:23,431 --> 00:51:27,392 Speaker 2: Yes. I want to be a mom one day and 757 00:51:27,951 --> 00:51:30,431 Speaker 2: I don't want to make kids coming up to me 758 00:51:30,592 --> 00:51:37,511 Speaker 2: feeling what were you talking about? John Meehan and so 759 00:51:37,752 --> 00:51:42,552 Speaker 2: I definitely am looking forward to putting this story in 760 00:51:42,592 --> 00:51:44,272 Speaker 2: the past real us. 761 00:51:44,232 --> 00:51:50,111 Speaker 1: Downe thanks to Terror for telling us her story. True 762 00:51:50,112 --> 00:51:53,392 Speaker 1: Crime Conversations is a Muma mea podcast hosted and produced 763 00:51:53,392 --> 00:51:56,712 Speaker 1: by me Jemma Bass and Tarlie Blackman, with audio design 764 00:51:56,911 --> 00:52:00,272 Speaker 1: by Jacob Brown. Thanks so much for listening. Claire Murphy 765 00:52:00,312 --> 00:52:03,111 Speaker 1: will be back next week with another True Crime Conversation