1 00:00:10,405 --> 00:00:15,005 Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. Mama Maya acknowledges 2 00:00:15,045 --> 00:00:17,685 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 3 00:00:17,765 --> 00:00:20,605 Speaker 1: is recorded on. Hey, No Filter listeners, it's Miya here, 4 00:00:20,885 --> 00:00:23,605 Speaker 1: and today we're revisiting one of my favorite episodes of 5 00:00:23,645 --> 00:00:27,125 Speaker 1: No Filter from twenty twenty three, about a woman who 6 00:00:27,165 --> 00:00:30,845 Speaker 1: claimed to be incredibly ill, got to meet the members 7 00:00:30,925 --> 00:00:35,365 Speaker 1: of One Direction, and then the most incredible twist, just 8 00:00:35,445 --> 00:00:38,285 Speaker 1: when everybody thought she was faking it and maybe she was. 9 00:00:38,965 --> 00:00:42,565 Speaker 1: In this episode, journalist Jamie Bartlett joins me to explore 10 00:00:42,565 --> 00:00:46,085 Speaker 1: the mystery. Was Megan actually ill and if not, what 11 00:00:46,365 --> 00:00:54,205 Speaker 1: really happened and how was her mother involved? For Mamma, 12 00:00:54,605 --> 00:01:00,325 Speaker 1: I'm Maya Friedman and you're listening to No Filter charity celebrity, 13 00:01:00,765 --> 00:01:03,845 Speaker 1: a mystery, illness, One Direction and a sudden death. 14 00:01:04,205 --> 00:01:06,125 Speaker 2: Was never meant to end like that. That was a 15 00:01:06,245 --> 00:01:09,325 Speaker 2: part of the story, but that's what happened. 16 00:01:09,925 --> 00:01:12,605 Speaker 1: The extraordinary story you're about to hear almost sounds made up. 17 00:01:13,445 --> 00:01:16,205 Speaker 1: It begins with a British girl called Megan Bari, who 18 00:01:16,245 --> 00:01:19,485 Speaker 1: was just thirteen when she developed a condition called idiopathic 19 00:01:19,845 --> 00:01:24,165 Speaker 1: into cranial hypertension, which involves high pressure around the brain, 20 00:01:24,765 --> 00:01:27,365 Speaker 1: and then a couple of years later, Meghan developed a 21 00:01:27,405 --> 00:01:30,325 Speaker 1: brain tumor, and it was as a direct result of 22 00:01:30,365 --> 00:01:34,285 Speaker 1: her experiences twenty four operations, lots of time in hospitals, 23 00:01:34,605 --> 00:01:38,925 Speaker 1: and countless interactions with other sick kids that Megan decided 24 00:01:38,965 --> 00:01:42,245 Speaker 1: in twenty twelve, when she was just seventeen, to set 25 00:01:42,325 --> 00:01:45,045 Speaker 1: up a charity with her mum to help dreams come 26 00:01:45,085 --> 00:01:48,405 Speaker 1: true for other kids who were battling chronic or terminal 27 00:01:48,445 --> 00:01:52,845 Speaker 1: illnesses like her. They called it Believe in Magic. Now, 28 00:01:53,205 --> 00:01:54,565 Speaker 1: you were very ill. 29 00:01:54,365 --> 00:01:56,645 Speaker 3: When you decided to set up the charity, So can 30 00:01:56,685 --> 00:01:58,285 Speaker 3: you tell us about why you wanted to do it. 31 00:01:58,405 --> 00:02:01,245 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I've had twenty four operations in the last 32 00:02:01,325 --> 00:02:04,005 Speaker 4: few years. Wow, And I've been in and out of 33 00:02:04,005 --> 00:02:07,725 Speaker 4: hospital and seeing so many other very poorly children, and 34 00:02:07,925 --> 00:02:09,965 Speaker 4: I just sort of realized how much the other children 35 00:02:09,965 --> 00:02:13,125 Speaker 4: are going through and just wanted to do something to 36 00:02:13,165 --> 00:02:15,805 Speaker 4: sort of give them the magical experiences back and to 37 00:02:15,845 --> 00:02:17,125 Speaker 4: be able to be children again. 38 00:02:17,805 --> 00:02:19,325 Speaker 1: And it worked in a sort of a Make a 39 00:02:19,405 --> 00:02:23,085 Speaker 1: Wish way, granting hundreds of sick kids wishes from lavish 40 00:02:23,085 --> 00:02:26,525 Speaker 1: parties to sending families on holiday or letting them meet 41 00:02:26,565 --> 00:02:30,805 Speaker 1: their celebrities. Superhero. Meghan's own dream was to connect with 42 00:02:30,845 --> 00:02:34,045 Speaker 1: One Direction, the boy band sensation of the twenty Tents, 43 00:02:34,525 --> 00:02:37,725 Speaker 1: and through her charity and her own personal story of suffering, 44 00:02:38,245 --> 00:02:40,605 Speaker 1: she did just that to such an extent that One 45 00:02:40,685 --> 00:02:44,645 Speaker 1: Direction began tweeting the support of Believe in Magic, attending 46 00:02:44,685 --> 00:02:48,485 Speaker 1: the charities galas and wearing Believe in Magic wristbands when 47 00:02:48,485 --> 00:02:49,685 Speaker 1: they performed on stage. 48 00:02:50,005 --> 00:02:50,925 Speaker 5: You have the boys. 49 00:02:51,405 --> 00:02:54,245 Speaker 3: They're wearing your wrist bands in forty countries, So now 50 00:02:54,285 --> 00:02:55,685 Speaker 3: your wristbands are main. 51 00:02:55,645 --> 00:02:57,885 Speaker 1: Many companies with kill that opportunity. 52 00:02:58,165 --> 00:02:59,965 Speaker 3: I mean, that's actually ridiculous. 53 00:03:00,125 --> 00:03:03,325 Speaker 1: Prime Minister David Cameron even gave Meghan an award for 54 00:03:03,365 --> 00:03:03,805 Speaker 1: her work. 55 00:03:03,925 --> 00:03:07,325 Speaker 2: Meg has shown such extraordinary courage to put aside her 56 00:03:07,445 --> 00:03:10,445 Speaker 2: own illness and focus on grant the dreams of others. 57 00:03:10,845 --> 00:03:14,125 Speaker 1: But when Meghan and Jean started fundraising online to pay 58 00:03:14,165 --> 00:03:16,565 Speaker 1: for urgent treatment that they said Meghan needed to get 59 00:03:16,605 --> 00:03:19,885 Speaker 1: in the US to save her life, some people started 60 00:03:19,885 --> 00:03:22,845 Speaker 1: to get a bit suspicious. It was giving bell gibbs 61 00:03:22,845 --> 00:03:26,405 Speaker 1: and vibes. Remember the Australian cookbook author who claimed she 62 00:03:26,485 --> 00:03:29,925 Speaker 1: had a brain humor, except that she didn't. You may 63 00:03:29,965 --> 00:03:32,725 Speaker 1: think you can guess what happened next, because there've been 64 00:03:32,925 --> 00:03:35,445 Speaker 1: quite a lot of well known stories about people who 65 00:03:35,525 --> 00:03:38,485 Speaker 1: claim to be sick in order to get attention or 66 00:03:38,525 --> 00:03:42,725 Speaker 1: scam money. And indeed, internet sleuths did find proof that 67 00:03:42,765 --> 00:03:46,845 Speaker 1: Meghan and her mother Jean were being deceptive, But just 68 00:03:46,885 --> 00:03:50,325 Speaker 1: when it looked like a scam was unraveling, Meghan suddenly 69 00:03:50,365 --> 00:03:55,565 Speaker 1: died and that's when things became really complicated. There was 70 00:03:55,565 --> 00:03:58,725 Speaker 1: an inquestion to Meghan's death, and soon after journalist Jamie 71 00:03:58,765 --> 00:04:02,165 Speaker 1: Bartler got involved. He spent months trying to unravel what 72 00:04:02,285 --> 00:04:04,965 Speaker 1: dark things went on with the charity and its founders, 73 00:04:05,485 --> 00:04:10,565 Speaker 1: and what he found out was bizarre. Jamie's been released 74 00:04:10,605 --> 00:04:14,645 Speaker 1: in a gripping seven episode podcast, also called Believe in Magic. 75 00:04:15,445 --> 00:04:18,525 Speaker 1: So was Megan ever really sick? And if she wasn't, 76 00:04:19,365 --> 00:04:25,685 Speaker 1: then how did she die? I wanted to start with 77 00:04:26,045 --> 00:04:30,205 Speaker 1: twenty twelve, BBC did a show about inspiring teenagers and 78 00:04:30,245 --> 00:04:33,405 Speaker 1: one of them is seventeen year old Meghan Barrie. 79 00:04:33,805 --> 00:04:37,285 Speaker 3: Now we have another inspirational young lady in the studio 80 00:04:37,365 --> 00:04:40,325 Speaker 3: with us. She has these little bands for her charity, 81 00:04:40,605 --> 00:04:43,565 Speaker 3: and indeed that Alix is now wearing that I've been 82 00:04:43,605 --> 00:04:46,125 Speaker 3: wearing all day I wore one on stage. Hello Meg, 83 00:04:46,325 --> 00:04:46,725 Speaker 3: how are you? 84 00:04:47,045 --> 00:04:47,245 Speaker 6: Yeah? 85 00:04:47,325 --> 00:04:47,565 Speaker 7: Good? 86 00:04:47,645 --> 00:04:49,245 Speaker 4: Thank you had an amazing day. 87 00:04:50,005 --> 00:04:53,165 Speaker 1: What was she being celebrated for, Meghan Bari. 88 00:04:53,445 --> 00:04:58,485 Speaker 2: Yeah, this inspirational teenager. She had become quite an influential 89 00:04:58,565 --> 00:05:01,365 Speaker 2: person within the cancer community. She had started up a 90 00:05:01,445 --> 00:05:04,365 Speaker 2: charity called Believe in Magic, and the idea was that 91 00:05:04,605 --> 00:05:08,725 Speaker 2: she's very poorly herself, but she'd sort of in spite 92 00:05:08,845 --> 00:05:11,965 Speaker 2: of that, had started a charity to grant wishes to 93 00:05:12,045 --> 00:05:15,165 Speaker 2: desperately ill children. There's other charities that do similar things, 94 00:05:15,205 --> 00:05:19,045 Speaker 2: you know, trips to Disney, meeting celebrities, sort of in 95 00:05:19,085 --> 00:05:21,605 Speaker 2: some cases, sort of dying wishes if you like. As 96 00:05:21,605 --> 00:05:23,445 Speaker 2: she puts it, to bring a little bit of joy 97 00:05:23,485 --> 00:05:28,085 Speaker 2: into people's lives. And because she had suffered herself so much, 98 00:05:28,725 --> 00:05:30,525 Speaker 2: you know, it inspired a lot of people. It moved 99 00:05:30,565 --> 00:05:33,805 Speaker 2: a lot of people. So the BBC had her on 100 00:05:33,845 --> 00:05:36,365 Speaker 2: for their Teen Awards show that they did every year 101 00:05:36,405 --> 00:05:39,405 Speaker 2: back then, and she'd become very popular with One Direction 102 00:05:39,485 --> 00:05:44,445 Speaker 2: as well. One Direction started wearing her charity wristbands on stage. 103 00:05:44,805 --> 00:05:47,605 Speaker 3: How do you persuade these people to get involved? 104 00:05:47,685 --> 00:05:50,645 Speaker 4: I think we've been so lucky, I said the charity 105 00:05:50,725 --> 00:05:52,965 Speaker 4: last year and it's run my me and my mum. 106 00:05:53,365 --> 00:05:56,405 Speaker 4: But I think people really like that. Because I'm seventeen 107 00:05:56,445 --> 00:05:59,525 Speaker 4: and because I've been poorly myself, it means they kind 108 00:05:59,525 --> 00:06:02,085 Speaker 4: of get it more than if it's just I don't 109 00:06:02,085 --> 00:06:03,965 Speaker 4: really know. I think they get the story behind it. 110 00:06:04,525 --> 00:06:07,125 Speaker 2: A very very inspiring young teenager. 111 00:06:07,885 --> 00:06:11,485 Speaker 1: How did she look back then? Because she claimed to 112 00:06:11,525 --> 00:06:14,325 Speaker 1: have had twenty four operations in the last couple of years. 113 00:06:14,885 --> 00:06:17,765 Speaker 1: She said she'd had a brain t tumor, and she 114 00:06:17,885 --> 00:06:21,205 Speaker 1: talked about how her insight into what it was like 115 00:06:21,285 --> 00:06:23,645 Speaker 1: to be in hospital and so ill made her want 116 00:06:23,685 --> 00:06:26,405 Speaker 1: to help other kids. Did she look unwell? 117 00:06:26,805 --> 00:06:30,245 Speaker 2: Based on what other people have told me who knew 118 00:06:30,285 --> 00:06:34,285 Speaker 2: her well at the time, she didn't look well. She 119 00:06:34,445 --> 00:06:39,765 Speaker 2: was slightly overweightd she definitely took lots of medication. A 120 00:06:39,805 --> 00:06:42,285 Speaker 2: lot of people saw her taking a lot of medication. 121 00:06:42,565 --> 00:06:45,445 Speaker 2: And the thing is about a lot of complex conditions. 122 00:06:45,445 --> 00:06:48,765 Speaker 2: You can't always tell just by looking at someone how 123 00:06:48,845 --> 00:06:52,525 Speaker 2: ill or how unwell they really are. So yes, if 124 00:06:52,565 --> 00:06:55,245 Speaker 2: you've got a broken leg, it's kind of obvious, but 125 00:06:55,325 --> 00:06:58,445 Speaker 2: when you're talking often about brain conditions, it's less obvious. 126 00:06:58,485 --> 00:07:01,685 Speaker 2: It's not always a visible condition. So that's a tricky one, 127 00:07:01,685 --> 00:07:03,925 Speaker 2: and that's sort of part of the story. I suppose 128 00:07:04,045 --> 00:07:07,005 Speaker 2: in a way, how far you ever really know how 129 00:07:07,085 --> 00:07:09,925 Speaker 2: unwell someone really is just by looking at them? You don't. 130 00:07:10,445 --> 00:07:10,925 Speaker 2: You don't. 131 00:07:11,325 --> 00:07:13,965 Speaker 1: The One Direction point that you made was really interesting. 132 00:07:14,085 --> 00:07:18,165 Speaker 1: She was a big fan and they became really involved, 133 00:07:18,205 --> 00:07:23,885 Speaker 1: like Harry Starles's mum climbed Mount Kilimanjaro raise money for 134 00:07:23,965 --> 00:07:27,125 Speaker 1: Believe in Magic. How did that connection come about? 135 00:07:27,485 --> 00:07:30,245 Speaker 2: I didn't really know that much about One Direction before 136 00:07:30,245 --> 00:07:33,765 Speaker 2: I started this. I just you know, pop band. To me, 137 00:07:33,805 --> 00:07:37,045 Speaker 2: they were just sort of X Factor contestants that did 138 00:07:37,085 --> 00:07:39,285 Speaker 2: really well, a good bunch of lads, and they did 139 00:07:39,325 --> 00:07:41,925 Speaker 2: a lot of work for charity, you know, and a 140 00:07:41,965 --> 00:07:44,645 Speaker 2: lot of popular bands they do a lot of work 141 00:07:44,645 --> 00:07:47,125 Speaker 2: for charity. They will do after gigs, they will often 142 00:07:47,205 --> 00:07:50,925 Speaker 2: meet poorly children One Direction And again I didn't really 143 00:07:50,965 --> 00:07:54,405 Speaker 2: know because I wasn't a directioner. But back in twenty eleven, 144 00:07:54,525 --> 00:07:57,925 Speaker 2: twenty twelve, that sort of time, I mean, amongst teenage 145 00:07:58,085 --> 00:08:01,725 Speaker 2: girls in the UK and around world, they were absolutely huge. 146 00:08:01,965 --> 00:08:04,165 Speaker 2: I mean there was this sort of obsession about them. 147 00:08:04,245 --> 00:08:06,565 Speaker 2: They were like the Beatles, Yeah, but it was like 148 00:08:06,605 --> 00:08:10,085 Speaker 2: Beatlemania really was. Actually when we were making the program. 149 00:08:10,165 --> 00:08:12,725 Speaker 2: We talked about it being kind of similar to Beatlemania, 150 00:08:12,845 --> 00:08:17,285 Speaker 2: sort of screaming teens, you know, absolutely obsessed and genuinely 151 00:08:17,285 --> 00:08:19,805 Speaker 2: feeling like they were in love with the band and 152 00:08:19,805 --> 00:08:21,805 Speaker 2: that they were going to marry members of the band. 153 00:08:21,845 --> 00:08:24,525 Speaker 2: And they turned up as well at this interesting point 154 00:08:24,565 --> 00:08:27,405 Speaker 2: where social media was making them far more approachable. They 155 00:08:27,445 --> 00:08:29,885 Speaker 2: seemed a lot more normal. They would share much of 156 00:08:29,925 --> 00:08:32,165 Speaker 2: their life online, so he got behind the scenes in 157 00:08:32,165 --> 00:08:35,005 Speaker 2: a way that he didn't with the Beatles. So Megan 158 00:08:35,165 --> 00:08:38,765 Speaker 2: was one of thousands and thousands of young teens who 159 00:08:38,845 --> 00:08:42,765 Speaker 2: just were obsessed with one direction, and she'd managed to 160 00:08:42,805 --> 00:08:46,885 Speaker 2: meet the band backstage after one of their gigs in London. 161 00:08:47,485 --> 00:08:48,805 Speaker 1: Was that because she was sick. 162 00:08:49,405 --> 00:08:51,325 Speaker 2: Some of the details aren't exactly clear, but yeah, we 163 00:08:51,365 --> 00:08:53,765 Speaker 2: think it was through one of the charities that would 164 00:08:53,765 --> 00:08:57,085 Speaker 2: put these events on for poorly children. And at the 165 00:08:57,165 --> 00:09:02,645 Speaker 2: time she had been diagnosed with idiopathic intracranial hypertension, which 166 00:09:02,685 --> 00:09:04,925 Speaker 2: is a sort of without going into the medical details 167 00:09:04,925 --> 00:09:06,725 Speaker 2: of it, a sort of build up of fluid on 168 00:09:06,765 --> 00:09:11,525 Speaker 2: the brain which can be really painful. Doctor Steele don't 169 00:09:11,565 --> 00:09:14,525 Speaker 2: fully understand it. So we think she got to meet 170 00:09:14,565 --> 00:09:18,605 Speaker 2: the band after one of their gigs because she had 171 00:09:18,645 --> 00:09:24,045 Speaker 2: been selected because of her idiopathic intracranial hypertension, and she 172 00:09:24,125 --> 00:09:26,725 Speaker 2: was brilliant with celebrities. She was really really good at 173 00:09:26,725 --> 00:09:29,325 Speaker 2: sort of charming celebrities and talking to them, and she 174 00:09:29,525 --> 00:09:32,525 Speaker 2: managed to somehow get their attention and get them to 175 00:09:32,845 --> 00:09:35,485 Speaker 2: support her charity too, which she decided to set up. 176 00:09:37,005 --> 00:09:39,405 Speaker 7: Hi It's Lourie from one direction. We've been working with 177 00:09:39,405 --> 00:09:41,365 Speaker 7: Believe in Magic Now for a few years and we 178 00:09:41,405 --> 00:09:44,525 Speaker 7: think Meg and the team are absolutely incredible. So to 179 00:09:44,605 --> 00:09:46,125 Speaker 7: want a chance to see us in London on the 180 00:09:46,125 --> 00:09:49,165 Speaker 7: twenty sixth September, donate below Thank you. 181 00:09:49,925 --> 00:09:51,765 Speaker 1: Who did she run the charity with Because she was 182 00:09:51,805 --> 00:09:56,125 Speaker 1: a teenager and she'd been unwell, running a charity is 183 00:09:56,125 --> 00:09:58,005 Speaker 1: a big deal. Who was helping her? 184 00:09:58,765 --> 00:10:02,725 Speaker 2: That was her mother, Jane, So Jean and Meghan had 185 00:10:02,725 --> 00:10:07,885 Speaker 2: an incredibly tight close relationship. Megan had been taken out 186 00:10:07,925 --> 00:10:10,725 Speaker 2: of school when she was I think it was thirteen, 187 00:10:10,965 --> 00:10:13,525 Speaker 2: so she was homeschooled for quite a long period of time. 188 00:10:14,165 --> 00:10:16,605 Speaker 2: Jean had had children from a previous marriage that had 189 00:10:16,645 --> 00:10:19,045 Speaker 2: all grown up and moved away, and they were more 190 00:10:19,125 --> 00:10:23,325 Speaker 2: like best friends really than mother and daughter, and Gene 191 00:10:24,005 --> 00:10:25,885 Speaker 2: as the adult, was the one that really set the 192 00:10:25,925 --> 00:10:27,965 Speaker 2: admin and was one of the official directors of the 193 00:10:28,045 --> 00:10:30,725 Speaker 2: charity until Megan was old enough to be that. But 194 00:10:30,805 --> 00:10:32,365 Speaker 2: it was the two of them and they were called 195 00:10:32,405 --> 00:10:35,285 Speaker 2: the fairy Godmothers and they would put on these events 196 00:10:35,325 --> 00:10:39,285 Speaker 2: together and everyone who went would say, these two are 197 00:10:39,325 --> 00:10:42,685 Speaker 2: just a whirlwind, a ball of energy. They do everything themselves. 198 00:10:42,765 --> 00:10:45,405 Speaker 2: They run this entire charity. They put on events and 199 00:10:45,445 --> 00:10:49,005 Speaker 2: trips to Disney and Hamley's toy store in London where 200 00:10:49,005 --> 00:10:51,725 Speaker 2: they get children all morning to be able to enter 201 00:10:51,765 --> 00:10:54,365 Speaker 2: the store before it opens and play with the toys, 202 00:10:54,405 --> 00:10:57,205 Speaker 2: and all this stuffy It was just them too. They 203 00:10:57,245 --> 00:10:59,925 Speaker 2: did all the admin, They did everything, all the fundraising. 204 00:11:01,325 --> 00:11:02,525 Speaker 2: It was the genat Meg show. 205 00:11:02,645 --> 00:11:04,965 Speaker 6: I Believe In Magic was started by model to Meg 206 00:11:05,125 --> 00:11:08,005 Speaker 6: and when she was just sixteen. Actually she'd been very 207 00:11:08,045 --> 00:11:11,045 Speaker 6: poorly herself for that four years then and was in 208 00:11:11,085 --> 00:11:14,605 Speaker 6: and out of many hospitals in London, mostly Great Ormond Street, 209 00:11:15,045 --> 00:11:17,245 Speaker 6: and Meg wanted to do something to make a difference 210 00:11:17,285 --> 00:11:20,725 Speaker 6: to their lives so shen't believe in magic, which. 211 00:11:20,485 --> 00:11:24,125 Speaker 2: Became They would work eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen hours a 212 00:11:24,205 --> 00:11:27,005 Speaker 2: day just to put on these events four poorly children, 213 00:11:27,045 --> 00:11:29,725 Speaker 2: and they really did, and they helped a lot of people. 214 00:11:29,765 --> 00:11:31,805 Speaker 2: And I spoke to a lot of people who attended 215 00:11:31,925 --> 00:11:35,205 Speaker 2: believe in Magic events who said, I'll never repay them 216 00:11:35,245 --> 00:11:37,085 Speaker 2: what they did, They what they did for my child, 217 00:11:37,165 --> 00:11:39,125 Speaker 2: the events they put on, how much they helped us, 218 00:11:39,165 --> 00:11:39,845 Speaker 2: it was amazing. 219 00:11:40,725 --> 00:11:44,685 Speaker 1: So the charity was real. I mean One Direction raffled 220 00:11:44,725 --> 00:11:48,525 Speaker 1: off backstage passes and raised four hundred thousand pounds. Harry 221 00:11:48,565 --> 00:11:51,205 Speaker 1: Style's mum climbed met Kilum and Jarrow. A lot of 222 00:11:51,205 --> 00:11:54,605 Speaker 1: people donated. They did actually do things, because all the 223 00:11:54,645 --> 00:11:57,685 Speaker 1: things you described cost a lot of money to execute. 224 00:11:58,005 --> 00:12:00,685 Speaker 2: They really did. Yeah, there were all sorts of events 225 00:12:00,725 --> 00:12:03,365 Speaker 2: they railed up on. They put on this huge fundraiser 226 00:12:03,445 --> 00:12:08,205 Speaker 2: at the Natural History Museum in central London. This princes 227 00:12:08,245 --> 00:12:10,885 Speaker 2: and princesses born all were a couple of the One 228 00:12:10,925 --> 00:12:14,805 Speaker 2: Direction members turned up as well. They would have trips 229 00:12:14,845 --> 00:12:18,405 Speaker 2: to Disney, trips to Kensington Palace, trips to Buckingham Palace. 230 00:12:19,005 --> 00:12:23,005 Speaker 2: They would often send gifts to poorly children that were 231 00:12:23,125 --> 00:12:27,005 Speaker 2: in hospital. They'd suddenly receive a package. And one person 232 00:12:27,085 --> 00:12:30,165 Speaker 2: told me how her daughter was a big fan of 233 00:12:30,285 --> 00:12:34,285 Speaker 2: the children's TV personality called mister Bumble, and Meghan had 234 00:12:34,325 --> 00:12:36,925 Speaker 2: managed to persuade mister Bumble to write this sort of 235 00:12:37,245 --> 00:12:40,565 Speaker 2: personalized note to her daughter to get well soon and 236 00:12:40,725 --> 00:12:44,445 Speaker 2: keep fighting. And they weren't putting on events, they really 237 00:12:44,445 --> 00:12:47,045 Speaker 2: were and they did a lot of events. Remember, Meghan 238 00:12:47,045 --> 00:12:50,125 Speaker 2: won an award which Prime Minister David Cameron said of 239 00:12:50,285 --> 00:12:53,445 Speaker 2: Meghan like fighting through her adversity to put these events 240 00:12:53,445 --> 00:12:56,045 Speaker 2: on to help poorly children. She won the special Award. 241 00:12:56,405 --> 00:12:59,365 Speaker 2: So they were a sort of highly respected part of 242 00:12:59,405 --> 00:13:02,365 Speaker 2: the cancer community, with the child cancer community in particular. 243 00:13:03,325 --> 00:13:06,765 Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds like there were almost celebrities in that area, 244 00:13:06,925 --> 00:13:08,085 Speaker 1: in that sector. 245 00:13:08,045 --> 00:13:08,805 Speaker 2: To some extent. 246 00:13:08,925 --> 00:13:11,725 Speaker 1: Yeah, And they did huge amounts of really good work. 247 00:13:12,245 --> 00:13:16,685 Speaker 1: In twenty fifteen, Jane announced on Facebook I think, where 248 00:13:16,685 --> 00:13:20,165 Speaker 1: she usually communicated with the followers and the supporters of 249 00:13:20,205 --> 00:13:23,965 Speaker 1: the charity, that Meghan's condition had deteriorated and that she'd 250 00:13:23,965 --> 00:13:28,525 Speaker 1: needs specialist treatment in the US to survive. And she 251 00:13:28,605 --> 00:13:30,965 Speaker 1: said that they needed to raise one hundred and twenty 252 00:13:31,325 --> 00:13:33,845 Speaker 1: pounds in two weeks, which is around a quarter of 253 00:13:33,845 --> 00:13:37,005 Speaker 1: million dollars Australian, and she asked their fans to donate. 254 00:13:37,885 --> 00:13:42,565 Speaker 1: Was that a change from what had been happening in 255 00:13:42,605 --> 00:13:45,725 Speaker 1: the years before that in terms of asking people for 256 00:13:45,805 --> 00:13:49,365 Speaker 1: money for the charity. Now they were asking it for themselves. 257 00:13:49,805 --> 00:13:54,045 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was, and Meghan had done a small fundraiser 258 00:13:54,085 --> 00:13:56,525 Speaker 2: for her own treatment a couple of years previous to that, 259 00:13:56,565 --> 00:13:59,845 Speaker 2: but it was nowhere near that size, not that amount 260 00:13:59,845 --> 00:14:03,085 Speaker 2: of money, And I think that was the big difference here, 261 00:14:03,405 --> 00:14:07,845 Speaker 2: moved from we're raising money for the charity to put 262 00:14:07,845 --> 00:14:12,685 Speaker 2: on these events to we are raising money for Meghan's treatment. 263 00:14:13,805 --> 00:14:17,605 Speaker 2: Meghan has put on so much and helped so many 264 00:14:17,605 --> 00:14:21,165 Speaker 2: other people. Now she needs your help in a return. 265 00:14:21,685 --> 00:14:26,205 Speaker 2: She now has her condition has seriously deteriorated. We need 266 00:14:26,365 --> 00:14:29,725 Speaker 2: urgent proton beam radiotherapy over in the US. Can't get 267 00:14:29,725 --> 00:14:31,965 Speaker 2: it in the UK at the moment. Because of how 268 00:14:32,085 --> 00:14:34,765 Speaker 2: much money they'd raised for the charity and how much 269 00:14:34,765 --> 00:14:38,605 Speaker 2: work they've done, that target was reached within forty eight hours. 270 00:14:38,645 --> 00:14:41,685 Speaker 2: They had raised all of that money, so Meghan was 271 00:14:41,685 --> 00:14:43,845 Speaker 2: able to go to the US to go to Florida 272 00:14:43,925 --> 00:14:46,325 Speaker 2: for treatment, and that was a bit of a difference. Yeah, 273 00:14:46,365 --> 00:14:49,965 Speaker 2: But I think in the cancer community it's I suppose 274 00:14:50,005 --> 00:14:54,005 Speaker 2: maybe not so uncommon that people suddenly do need urgent treatment, 275 00:14:54,085 --> 00:14:56,325 Speaker 2: and if you're part of that world, it maybe wouldn't 276 00:14:56,365 --> 00:14:58,885 Speaker 2: have seemed as strange that it had gone from the 277 00:14:58,965 --> 00:15:01,765 Speaker 2: charity to Meghan, because those sorts of things do happen. 278 00:15:02,645 --> 00:15:06,965 Speaker 1: This is when Joe Ashcroft comes into the story. You 279 00:15:07,045 --> 00:15:11,125 Speaker 1: spoke to Joe why was she so interested in Megan 280 00:15:11,205 --> 00:15:12,365 Speaker 1: and believe in Magic? 281 00:15:12,645 --> 00:15:16,485 Speaker 2: At this point, Joe's son had gone through something very similar. 282 00:15:17,005 --> 00:15:21,485 Speaker 2: Joe's son had been diagnosed with neuroblastoma a few years earlier, 283 00:15:21,485 --> 00:15:23,565 Speaker 2: and she'd actually been to a Believe in Magic event. 284 00:15:24,565 --> 00:15:27,085 Speaker 2: She had been forced to raise two hundred and fifty 285 00:15:27,125 --> 00:15:31,285 Speaker 2: thousand pounds for her son's treatment in America, a similar 286 00:15:31,365 --> 00:15:35,125 Speaker 2: sort of thing. So she really took a natural interest 287 00:15:35,125 --> 00:15:38,605 Speaker 2: in anyone raising money for treatment in America because she'd 288 00:15:38,645 --> 00:15:40,565 Speaker 2: been through it and she knew what it took and 289 00:15:40,605 --> 00:15:41,565 Speaker 2: how hard it was. 290 00:15:41,645 --> 00:15:46,125 Speaker 1: And as you say, that's quite common within this world 291 00:15:46,405 --> 00:15:49,285 Speaker 1: where people can't afford to travel to get the treatment 292 00:15:49,285 --> 00:15:49,845 Speaker 1: that they need. 293 00:15:49,925 --> 00:15:51,685 Speaker 2: Well, that's it. And the other thing as well, is 294 00:15:51,725 --> 00:15:55,925 Speaker 2: that you're faced with this horrible decision where they'll say 295 00:15:56,005 --> 00:15:59,285 Speaker 2: we don't offer the treatment. There's some experimental stuff going 296 00:15:59,325 --> 00:16:01,845 Speaker 2: on in America, but you're going to have to raise 297 00:16:01,885 --> 00:16:05,045 Speaker 2: a quarter of a million pounds half a million dollars 298 00:16:05,605 --> 00:16:09,605 Speaker 2: in a few weeks somehow, just to increase that chance 299 00:16:09,725 --> 00:16:12,925 Speaker 2: that they would survive by five percent. But your whole 300 00:16:12,965 --> 00:16:15,125 Speaker 2: life is put on hold, and you do everything. And 301 00:16:15,165 --> 00:16:18,725 Speaker 2: she talks a lot about all she wants to do 302 00:16:18,765 --> 00:16:22,165 Speaker 2: is stay at home and cry and sort of be 303 00:16:22,285 --> 00:16:24,765 Speaker 2: with her son. But instead she's got to go out 304 00:16:24,765 --> 00:16:28,165 Speaker 2: there and do marathons and raffles and drag her poor 305 00:16:28,205 --> 00:16:31,485 Speaker 2: son around from event to event, trying to tug on 306 00:16:31,565 --> 00:16:33,845 Speaker 2: people's heart strings. And she said it was awful because 307 00:16:33,885 --> 00:16:36,205 Speaker 2: she wants privacy, and she said she'll do anything to 308 00:16:36,285 --> 00:16:39,685 Speaker 2: raise the money. So she's dragging her son around from 309 00:16:39,725 --> 00:16:42,805 Speaker 2: event to event. She said, straight off the chemotherapy, just 310 00:16:42,845 --> 00:16:44,165 Speaker 2: to try to get more money. 311 00:16:44,605 --> 00:16:45,325 Speaker 1: And she did it. 312 00:16:45,605 --> 00:16:47,245 Speaker 2: She did it, and she raised the money and the 313 00:16:47,325 --> 00:16:51,085 Speaker 2: treatment worked. So it's incredible. I mean, just so much 314 00:16:52,325 --> 00:16:55,485 Speaker 2: admiration for her. And I've got two small children myself, 315 00:16:55,525 --> 00:16:58,445 Speaker 2: and well, you know, just even thinking of it's a 316 00:16:58,445 --> 00:17:00,565 Speaker 2: really difficult thing to work on, this whole project, to 317 00:17:00,605 --> 00:17:04,525 Speaker 2: be honest, because of that, you're dealing with childhood, the illness. 318 00:17:04,525 --> 00:17:05,165 Speaker 2: It's awful. 319 00:17:05,965 --> 00:17:09,685 Speaker 1: Given that she raised twice as much money as Meghan 320 00:17:09,765 --> 00:17:13,965 Speaker 1: and Jane had to travel to the US. What raised 321 00:17:13,965 --> 00:17:16,405 Speaker 1: her suspicions about what they were doing. 322 00:17:16,845 --> 00:17:20,405 Speaker 2: She says, the lack of detail. It was very vague. 323 00:17:20,925 --> 00:17:24,325 Speaker 2: The fundraisers were vague, They were a bit unclear. They 324 00:17:24,365 --> 00:17:28,885 Speaker 2: didn't give specifics. The hospitals weren't mentioned, the doctors weren't mentioned. 325 00:17:29,245 --> 00:17:32,005 Speaker 5: To me, it just all sounded very very strange. And 326 00:17:32,125 --> 00:17:35,445 Speaker 5: as I'm reading, I'm trying to see where she's been treated, 327 00:17:35,485 --> 00:17:38,085 Speaker 5: who are doctor raised, where the hospital is, and there 328 00:17:38,165 --> 00:17:39,485 Speaker 5: was no information. 329 00:17:39,605 --> 00:17:42,165 Speaker 2: And so she started, I'd just like to know a 330 00:17:42,205 --> 00:17:44,885 Speaker 2: bit more about this. So she'd start emailing saying, what 331 00:17:45,005 --> 00:17:47,525 Speaker 2: hospital are you actually going to? What doctor is it? 332 00:17:47,565 --> 00:17:49,165 Speaker 2: Could I get in touch with I'd like to know 333 00:17:49,205 --> 00:17:51,885 Speaker 2: more of you got any scans? So can I see 334 00:17:52,245 --> 00:17:54,885 Speaker 2: a bit more on the specifics of what exactly this 335 00:17:54,965 --> 00:17:58,125 Speaker 2: money's being spent on, because she says she was asked 336 00:17:58,165 --> 00:18:01,445 Speaker 2: that often and she could reel off every specific treatment 337 00:18:01,645 --> 00:18:04,445 Speaker 2: at what hotel and what doctor and here's the letter. 338 00:18:04,685 --> 00:18:07,805 Speaker 2: Because she said, these people are giving me money, I 339 00:18:07,845 --> 00:18:10,725 Speaker 2: will answer any question they have. I'll give them everything 340 00:18:10,765 --> 00:18:14,045 Speaker 2: they want, and she felt like she wasn't getting those answers, 341 00:18:14,085 --> 00:18:16,125 Speaker 2: and so she thought, something just seems a bit off 342 00:18:16,165 --> 00:18:19,965 Speaker 2: about this. It just seems a bit slightly suspicious. And 343 00:18:20,205 --> 00:18:22,565 Speaker 2: the more she dug, the more she asked, the less 344 00:18:22,845 --> 00:18:24,605 Speaker 2: she seemed to understand about it. 345 00:18:25,365 --> 00:18:30,325 Speaker 5: Hi, I'd love to send Meghan something, just like she 346 00:18:30,525 --> 00:18:35,005 Speaker 5: sends all the poorly children. Which hospitals do I send 347 00:18:35,005 --> 00:18:39,445 Speaker 5: it to? To which I got reply, thanks so much. 348 00:18:39,485 --> 00:18:42,645 Speaker 5: But Meghan's at three different hospitals at the moment, so 349 00:18:42,685 --> 00:18:43,925 Speaker 5: it's very, very difficult. 350 00:18:44,125 --> 00:18:46,645 Speaker 2: And then she found that Meghan and Gene had done 351 00:18:46,645 --> 00:18:51,925 Speaker 2: another fundraiser for Meghan a couple of years prior, and 352 00:18:51,965 --> 00:18:53,845 Speaker 2: that was also a bit odd. It mentioned going to 353 00:18:53,925 --> 00:18:57,005 Speaker 2: Disney World. It said, we're going to go to America 354 00:18:57,005 --> 00:19:00,005 Speaker 2: to help Megan get better, and while we're there, we're 355 00:19:00,045 --> 00:19:02,285 Speaker 2: also going to go to Disney. Can you help donate? 356 00:19:02,325 --> 00:19:05,405 Speaker 2: And she thought, given what I've been through, I wouldn't 357 00:19:05,405 --> 00:19:09,125 Speaker 2: spend a penny on Disney. Everything is going to much 358 00:19:09,165 --> 00:19:11,605 Speaker 2: of treatment. Why are you raising money if you've got 359 00:19:11,725 --> 00:19:14,725 Speaker 2: enough to go to Disney as well? And so she 360 00:19:14,845 --> 00:19:18,165 Speaker 2: just thought. Her big concern was she'd heard stories about 361 00:19:18,205 --> 00:19:21,885 Speaker 2: people within the cancer community sort of faking illnesses and 362 00:19:22,005 --> 00:19:24,285 Speaker 2: pretending to have things they didn't to raise money, and 363 00:19:24,325 --> 00:19:25,765 Speaker 2: she just thought, I'm going to get to the bottom 364 00:19:25,765 --> 00:19:28,725 Speaker 2: of this. I think something's up. I don't want anyone 365 00:19:28,725 --> 00:19:30,125 Speaker 2: in this community being ripped off. 366 00:19:30,885 --> 00:19:35,485 Speaker 1: At that time, Jeane was in the US and she 367 00:19:35,645 --> 00:19:40,285 Speaker 1: was posting increasingly alarming and really detailed updates. What Joe 368 00:19:40,285 --> 00:19:43,045 Speaker 1: had said that there was not much detail around the 369 00:19:43,045 --> 00:19:47,485 Speaker 1: hospital when you described the updates she was posting. There 370 00:19:47,525 --> 00:19:50,965 Speaker 1: was a lot of very specific medical language and medical 371 00:19:51,085 --> 00:19:54,165 Speaker 1: terms and about this procedure and all these different symptoms 372 00:19:54,205 --> 00:19:59,405 Speaker 1: and escalating complications that Meg had. Where were they actually 373 00:19:59,445 --> 00:20:01,205 Speaker 1: while all of this was happening, And how did the 374 00:20:01,245 --> 00:20:05,085 Speaker 1: sleuths find out? The Sluths being the group of cancer 375 00:20:05,165 --> 00:20:07,765 Speaker 1: parents that Joe enlisted to help her find out what 376 00:20:07,845 --> 00:20:08,325 Speaker 1: was going on. 377 00:20:08,805 --> 00:20:13,125 Speaker 2: Yeah, this story is just so on so many levels. 378 00:20:13,165 --> 00:20:16,125 Speaker 2: It's just surprised me at every turn what actually happens 379 00:20:16,165 --> 00:20:19,965 Speaker 2: here with this. The basics of it is that Joe 380 00:20:20,045 --> 00:20:23,085 Speaker 2: and a couple of other people who had also been 381 00:20:23,125 --> 00:20:26,085 Speaker 2: through the same thing, she had children with neuroblastoma, raising 382 00:20:26,085 --> 00:20:28,325 Speaker 2: money for treatment in America. So they were really tight 383 00:20:28,365 --> 00:20:32,845 Speaker 2: in this community getting more and more suspicious. The language 384 00:20:32,965 --> 00:20:37,765 Speaker 2: when Gene was posting from America about Megan's health deteriorating, 385 00:20:37,845 --> 00:20:40,925 Speaker 2: and it just seemed often far too exaggerated, you know, 386 00:20:41,005 --> 00:20:44,245 Speaker 2: like where people would have two or three infections, Meghan 387 00:20:44,285 --> 00:20:48,125 Speaker 2: has twenty. Stuff that just seemed a little bit suspicious, 388 00:20:48,165 --> 00:20:50,765 Speaker 2: a little bit not quite believable, a little bit exaggerated, 389 00:20:50,925 --> 00:20:54,405 Speaker 2: if I can say that. So she starts thinking, well, 390 00:20:54,405 --> 00:20:55,885 Speaker 2: how are we going to get to the bottom of this, Like, 391 00:20:55,885 --> 00:20:57,485 Speaker 2: how are we going to figure out what's really going on? 392 00:20:57,525 --> 00:21:00,805 Speaker 2: Because we're not convinced that Meghan is as ill as 393 00:21:00,805 --> 00:21:03,845 Speaker 2: she claims to be, and we're not convinced she's getting 394 00:21:03,885 --> 00:21:07,765 Speaker 2: this treatment in America. So what they decide to do 395 00:21:07,965 --> 00:21:10,925 Speaker 2: send an email to Gene the little tracker code in 396 00:21:10,965 --> 00:21:13,685 Speaker 2: it which gives you the location of where the email's 397 00:21:13,725 --> 00:21:18,005 Speaker 2: being opened from, and they discover when Gene replies that 398 00:21:18,125 --> 00:21:21,165 Speaker 2: actually it was opened in a Disney resort, not in 399 00:21:21,245 --> 00:21:23,525 Speaker 2: a hospital, not next to a hospital, but in the 400 00:21:23,605 --> 00:21:29,165 Speaker 2: Kadani Disney resort. We were able to access some receipts 401 00:21:29,205 --> 00:21:32,485 Speaker 2: that showed that Megan and Jean had spent tens of 402 00:21:32,565 --> 00:21:39,005 Speaker 2: thousands of dollars in a luxury Disney suite over several months. 403 00:21:39,085 --> 00:21:42,765 Speaker 2: While publicly online they were claiming that Meghan was in 404 00:21:42,765 --> 00:21:44,645 Speaker 2: the hospital barely making it through the night. 405 00:21:45,165 --> 00:21:48,445 Speaker 5: Busted, she's there, and she was saying that she was 406 00:21:48,565 --> 00:21:52,125 Speaker 5: spending the night holding Meghan's hand, willing her through the night. 407 00:21:52,925 --> 00:21:56,925 Speaker 5: There's no way that anybody with a child who is 408 00:21:56,965 --> 00:22:01,485 Speaker 5: that sick would be in a Disney resort. So rang 409 00:22:01,685 --> 00:22:05,645 Speaker 5: the kadane there and then without really thinking it through, 410 00:22:06,205 --> 00:22:09,125 Speaker 5: and they put me through to the room and Gene answered. 411 00:22:09,445 --> 00:22:13,565 Speaker 5: So I said, Meghan, plain and she said sorry. I said, 412 00:22:13,565 --> 00:22:20,565 Speaker 5: it is Meghan there. Please, She said, who's calling? She's 413 00:22:20,565 --> 00:22:23,485 Speaker 5: asleep at the moment, ring thank you, and I put 414 00:22:23,485 --> 00:22:25,685 Speaker 5: the phone down. So then I go back to the 415 00:22:25,725 --> 00:22:29,165 Speaker 5: group and I said Megan, Megan's in that room. 416 00:22:29,765 --> 00:22:32,725 Speaker 2: Then they did something else which we need photographic proof. 417 00:22:32,925 --> 00:22:35,645 Speaker 2: No one's going to believe us because Meghan and Gene 418 00:22:35,645 --> 00:22:38,685 Speaker 2: are believe in magic. These are household names. People love 419 00:22:38,765 --> 00:22:42,245 Speaker 2: these guys and understandably, so they've helped a lot of people. 420 00:22:42,285 --> 00:22:43,965 Speaker 2: No one's going to believe us. Who are we with 421 00:22:44,405 --> 00:22:47,245 Speaker 2: which a handful of random parents that look bitter and upset. 422 00:22:48,685 --> 00:22:52,365 Speaker 2: So they also worked out that Megan and Gene were 423 00:22:52,365 --> 00:22:55,645 Speaker 2: coming back to the UK from America. Jean had been 424 00:22:55,645 --> 00:22:58,245 Speaker 2: posting a lot on Facebook, Meghan's getting a bit better. 425 00:22:58,285 --> 00:23:00,125 Speaker 2: We're going to try and make it home, but because 426 00:23:00,165 --> 00:23:03,285 Speaker 2: of her brain condition, we can't fly. So they thought, oh, 427 00:23:03,365 --> 00:23:06,685 Speaker 2: they always travel on the Queen Mary Second luxury ocean liner. 428 00:23:07,245 --> 00:23:09,165 Speaker 2: They looked at the times and they worked out that 429 00:23:09,165 --> 00:23:11,725 Speaker 2: there was one leaving New York around that time. So 430 00:23:11,765 --> 00:23:14,005 Speaker 2: they thought, I bet they're on that, and it's coming 431 00:23:14,005 --> 00:23:17,085 Speaker 2: to Southampton in a week's time. So they hired a 432 00:23:17,085 --> 00:23:20,645 Speaker 2: private detective. This is where the story gets so crazy. 433 00:23:21,525 --> 00:23:25,645 Speaker 2: So this group of very very respectable parents with children 434 00:23:25,685 --> 00:23:29,645 Speaker 2: who'd had cancer hired a private detective to go down 435 00:23:29,685 --> 00:23:32,765 Speaker 2: to Southampton when the ship docked to see firstly if 436 00:23:32,805 --> 00:23:34,965 Speaker 2: the pair were on the boat, and to watch them 437 00:23:34,965 --> 00:23:37,725 Speaker 2: as they came off to take photographs. Because from all 438 00:23:37,805 --> 00:23:41,045 Speaker 2: the things that Gene had been posting, Megan was you know, 439 00:23:41,085 --> 00:23:44,005 Speaker 2: she had an oxygen tank, she'd probably be in a wheelchair. 440 00:23:44,085 --> 00:23:48,365 Speaker 2: They had bags of medical equipment. They were expecting an 441 00:23:48,445 --> 00:23:51,965 Speaker 2: extremely unwell child to be sort of pushed off on 442 00:23:52,045 --> 00:23:54,885 Speaker 2: a wheelchair from the Queen Mary the Second. But yes, 443 00:23:54,965 --> 00:23:58,285 Speaker 2: they were on the ship, but she certainly didn't seem 444 00:23:58,365 --> 00:24:02,125 Speaker 2: particularly unwell. Meghan and Gene disembarked the Queen Mary Second, 445 00:24:02,245 --> 00:24:05,365 Speaker 2: snapped by the private detective looking like a couple of 446 00:24:05,405 --> 00:24:11,325 Speaker 2: happy tourists wandering off, both of them pushing these huge bags, 447 00:24:12,085 --> 00:24:15,965 Speaker 2: and Joe Ashcroft thought, that's it. We've got them. We 448 00:24:16,045 --> 00:24:18,205 Speaker 2: can show they've been lying. They've been saying that they're 449 00:24:18,245 --> 00:24:20,605 Speaker 2: barely making it through the night, and here they are 450 00:24:21,245 --> 00:24:23,365 Speaker 2: looking like a pair of happy tourists coming off the 451 00:24:23,445 --> 00:24:27,405 Speaker 2: Queen Mary, the second luxury ocean liner. So that is 452 00:24:27,485 --> 00:24:31,045 Speaker 2: where the story you think is over because you think, 453 00:24:31,285 --> 00:24:34,485 Speaker 2: right there we go exposed. 454 00:24:35,045 --> 00:24:37,005 Speaker 1: Yeah, because you would also think that it's like the 455 00:24:37,005 --> 00:24:40,605 Speaker 1: gotcha moment, right they've got the evidence. It's a ClearCase 456 00:24:40,685 --> 00:24:42,965 Speaker 1: or it seems to be a case of financial fraud. 457 00:24:43,805 --> 00:24:46,765 Speaker 1: They're claiming on Facebook that she's so unwell. The pictures 458 00:24:46,765 --> 00:24:50,005 Speaker 1: contradict it. We've got the evidence. They were in Disney 459 00:24:50,005 --> 00:24:52,205 Speaker 1: World at the time that they said they were in hospital, 460 00:24:52,805 --> 00:24:56,405 Speaker 1: but it didn't turn out that way. Like they tried 461 00:24:56,405 --> 00:24:58,525 Speaker 1: to go public, didn't they, And what was the reaction. 462 00:24:59,125 --> 00:25:02,285 Speaker 2: It's called malingering. There's a very specific term for that 463 00:25:02,325 --> 00:25:07,525 Speaker 2: in sort of the literature about essentially faking or exaggerating 464 00:25:07,565 --> 00:25:11,925 Speaker 2: illness for financial gain, material gain. I wouldn't say it's common, 465 00:25:11,965 --> 00:25:16,045 Speaker 2: but it happens more often than people think. And I 466 00:25:16,165 --> 00:25:19,045 Speaker 2: know a lot of people now that have had experience 467 00:25:19,125 --> 00:25:21,245 Speaker 2: of going on to Facebook or going on to go 468 00:25:21,485 --> 00:25:24,365 Speaker 2: fund me or just giving and finding people claiming to 469 00:25:24,445 --> 00:25:28,325 Speaker 2: have various elements and raising money for it. You've got 470 00:25:28,325 --> 00:25:31,165 Speaker 2: no proof of that. And there was a really famous 471 00:25:31,325 --> 00:25:33,405 Speaker 2: example of this in Australia, wasn't that. I'm sure you're 472 00:25:33,445 --> 00:25:34,925 Speaker 2: going to come onto that at some point. 473 00:25:35,245 --> 00:25:37,045 Speaker 1: I'm sure I am. I was going to say to you, 474 00:25:37,205 --> 00:25:39,525 Speaker 1: were you familiar with the case of Bell Gibson, because 475 00:25:39,525 --> 00:25:42,205 Speaker 1: you were saying that you were surprised at how successful 476 00:25:42,405 --> 00:25:44,165 Speaker 1: your podcast has been in Australia. 477 00:25:44,285 --> 00:25:45,445 Speaker 2: Is that why? Yeah? 478 00:25:45,685 --> 00:25:45,925 Speaker 1: Right? 479 00:25:46,045 --> 00:25:48,605 Speaker 2: That suddenly it's all adding up. So they go public 480 00:25:48,605 --> 00:25:51,485 Speaker 2: and they say, look, Megan might be unwell. Often in 481 00:25:51,525 --> 00:25:54,485 Speaker 2: these cases, people are unwell, but they will exaggerate greatly 482 00:25:54,565 --> 00:25:58,245 Speaker 2: their condition. So she might be unwell, but she doesn't 483 00:25:58,245 --> 00:26:00,965 Speaker 2: need this treatment. In America, she doesn't have a brain 484 00:26:01,045 --> 00:26:04,245 Speaker 2: tumor likes being claimed, she doesn't need this specialized treatment. 485 00:26:04,605 --> 00:26:07,685 Speaker 2: They've been in Disney World this whole time, ripping you off, 486 00:26:08,365 --> 00:26:11,525 Speaker 2: and look, we've photographs of them coming off the Queen 487 00:26:11,565 --> 00:26:14,845 Speaker 2: Mary second looking perfectly healthy, and they put this all 488 00:26:14,845 --> 00:26:17,445 Speaker 2: in a Facebook group. They called it the Truth about 489 00:26:17,525 --> 00:26:21,125 Speaker 2: Gene and Meg, saying this is who we are. We 490 00:26:21,165 --> 00:26:24,125 Speaker 2: are concerned parents, and this is what we've discovered. And 491 00:26:24,165 --> 00:26:27,485 Speaker 2: they contacted authorities trying to alert them, saying someone's got 492 00:26:27,485 --> 00:26:31,605 Speaker 2: to stop this, and yeah, the reaction was not what 493 00:26:31,645 --> 00:26:34,725 Speaker 2: they expected. It was how dare you say this? How 494 00:26:34,765 --> 00:26:38,525 Speaker 2: could you? I know, Meghan's not well, believe in Magic's 495 00:26:38,525 --> 00:26:40,885 Speaker 2: helped my life and my kids and my family, and 496 00:26:41,245 --> 00:26:44,005 Speaker 2: you're jealous and bitter and angry and your trolls and 497 00:26:44,045 --> 00:26:47,245 Speaker 2: you should be thrown off the internet and all this stuff. 498 00:26:47,965 --> 00:26:52,045 Speaker 2: And the authorities, as far as Joe Ashcroft was concerned, 499 00:26:52,085 --> 00:26:54,685 Speaker 2: weren't really doing much either. She couldn't get answers out 500 00:26:54,685 --> 00:26:56,845 Speaker 2: of them. They didn't seem to be shutting the charity down. 501 00:26:56,885 --> 00:27:00,085 Speaker 2: Nothing seemed to be happening. So I just think they 502 00:27:00,085 --> 00:27:01,885 Speaker 2: were on the verge of giving up, thinking, well, what 503 00:27:01,925 --> 00:27:02,725 Speaker 2: we're supposed to do? 504 00:27:03,645 --> 00:27:09,245 Speaker 1: Did Meghan and Jane respond? They released a statement, didn't they? 505 00:27:09,605 --> 00:27:12,365 Speaker 2: Ways they would respond and they would post about these 506 00:27:12,405 --> 00:27:16,805 Speaker 2: trolls that are targeting them, and often without naming them specifically. 507 00:27:16,845 --> 00:27:19,245 Speaker 2: They would say it's hard enough going through this, it's 508 00:27:19,285 --> 00:27:21,965 Speaker 2: hard enough looking after Megan, it's hard enough having to 509 00:27:22,005 --> 00:27:26,125 Speaker 2: deal with Meghan's conditions, and now we've got these nasty trolls, 510 00:27:26,645 --> 00:27:32,605 Speaker 2: these bitter, angry people who are attacking us online. And 511 00:27:32,965 --> 00:27:36,605 Speaker 2: I think at one point Gene may have even said 512 00:27:37,085 --> 00:27:41,645 Speaker 2: it's because Joanne Ashcroft wasn't invited to believe in magic events. 513 00:27:41,685 --> 00:27:46,725 Speaker 2: She's jealous, She's just bitter and she's angry. Megan also 514 00:27:47,165 --> 00:27:50,085 Speaker 2: posted a video. This wasn't public, but it went to 515 00:27:50,445 --> 00:27:51,445 Speaker 2: Joe saying. 516 00:27:51,645 --> 00:27:54,965 Speaker 8: Joanna Acecraft, it's meg It it's a good time to 517 00:27:55,445 --> 00:27:58,045 Speaker 8: say hello. As you can see, we obviously have far 518 00:27:58,125 --> 00:28:02,085 Speaker 8: more important things to be dealing with, disgusting exultations that 519 00:28:02,125 --> 00:28:03,205 Speaker 8: you're throwing at one of. 520 00:28:03,125 --> 00:28:04,525 Speaker 2: The worst ones of whole lives. 521 00:28:05,405 --> 00:28:07,965 Speaker 8: I cannot, for the life of me understand how you've 522 00:28:07,965 --> 00:28:11,485 Speaker 8: done what you've done through and very good. I have 523 00:28:11,645 --> 00:28:14,005 Speaker 8: every hope in the world that you will see how 524 00:28:14,045 --> 00:28:19,365 Speaker 8: wrong you've been and apologize, and I'm very sorry to 525 00:28:19,405 --> 00:28:19,685 Speaker 8: see that. 526 00:28:19,765 --> 00:28:21,965 Speaker 2: If you don't, you'll. 527 00:28:21,845 --> 00:28:25,765 Speaker 8: Be hearing from us very sory too. You have completely 528 00:28:25,845 --> 00:28:27,085 Speaker 8: devastated death and roke. 529 00:28:27,005 --> 00:28:31,285 Speaker 2: Good on look, I'm ill stop targeting us, so both 530 00:28:31,325 --> 00:28:34,845 Speaker 2: publicly and privately. Yeah, they were basically shut down, if 531 00:28:34,885 --> 00:28:35,245 Speaker 2: you like. 532 00:28:36,445 --> 00:28:38,885 Speaker 1: Which is not what they were expecting at all. 533 00:28:39,725 --> 00:28:42,325 Speaker 2: No, but then I suppose they didn't really know what 534 00:28:42,405 --> 00:28:44,805 Speaker 2: to expect. This is one of the things about many 535 00:28:44,925 --> 00:28:49,485 Speaker 2: stories now you see on exposing different types of social problems, 536 00:28:49,485 --> 00:28:53,445 Speaker 2: is it's often amateurs doing this stuff. It's not the journalists, 537 00:28:53,565 --> 00:28:56,885 Speaker 2: it's the amateur solut it's the online investigators digging around 538 00:28:56,965 --> 00:29:00,845 Speaker 2: becoming obsessed with a story because these guys were spending. 539 00:29:01,925 --> 00:29:05,205 Speaker 2: Like Joe says, it was you know, she became consumed 540 00:29:05,245 --> 00:29:07,445 Speaker 2: by this. You know, she would just constantly all day 541 00:29:07,485 --> 00:29:09,725 Speaker 2: on her phone, like what's the latest, what we've who 542 00:29:09,765 --> 00:29:11,565 Speaker 2: do we know? What can we discover? Let's go through 543 00:29:11,565 --> 00:29:13,885 Speaker 2: some old posts. Is there any clues there? So they 544 00:29:13,885 --> 00:29:15,765 Speaker 2: didn't know what they were doing. They don't know how 545 00:29:15,805 --> 00:29:18,205 Speaker 2: to expose these things. They didn't know what the reaction 546 00:29:18,285 --> 00:29:20,845 Speaker 2: would be. So I think they imagined they'd all be 547 00:29:20,925 --> 00:29:23,325 Speaker 2: praised and thank you so much for your hard work. 548 00:29:23,365 --> 00:29:26,365 Speaker 2: But that isn't how the world works. You know. Meghan 549 00:29:26,365 --> 00:29:30,445 Speaker 2: and Gene had a lot of loyal supporters. 550 00:29:29,405 --> 00:29:36,205 Speaker 1: And then unbelievably in twenty eighteen, something just completely shocking happened. 551 00:29:37,165 --> 00:29:41,765 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it was shocking, and it was actually whenever 552 00:29:41,765 --> 00:29:44,725 Speaker 2: I tell the story to anyone, this is the point 553 00:29:44,765 --> 00:29:49,405 Speaker 2: which they're like, what Joe and Ashcross is sitting around 554 00:29:49,445 --> 00:29:52,045 Speaker 2: one day and she gets her phone call or a 555 00:29:52,045 --> 00:29:56,045 Speaker 2: text message and it basically says, Meghan's dead, Meghan's died. 556 00:29:57,845 --> 00:30:01,325 Speaker 2: And she just thought, what the Megan wasn't ill, Meghan 557 00:30:01,485 --> 00:30:05,285 Speaker 2: wasn't seriously unwell, that how could that be possible? And 558 00:30:05,685 --> 00:30:11,605 Speaker 2: Meghan had indeed passed away hospital in London at the 559 00:30:11,805 --> 00:30:16,125 Speaker 2: National Institute for Neurology and Neuroscience, but a brain specialist 560 00:30:16,365 --> 00:30:18,045 Speaker 2: hospital essentially, and. 561 00:30:18,085 --> 00:30:19,365 Speaker 1: She was twenty three years old. 562 00:30:19,885 --> 00:30:24,085 Speaker 2: Yeah, Jean had posted it on Facebook because what had 563 00:30:24,125 --> 00:30:27,045 Speaker 2: happened was the charity had actually been there was an 564 00:30:27,085 --> 00:30:31,165 Speaker 2: investigation was opened by the Commission into Believe in Magic, 565 00:30:31,845 --> 00:30:35,165 Speaker 2: so that was ongoing. That had started, and actually Joe 566 00:30:35,165 --> 00:30:37,685 Speaker 2: and Ashcroft, even though she thought no one was doing anything, 567 00:30:37,685 --> 00:30:40,605 Speaker 2: the charity Commission had started looking into like, how's the 568 00:30:40,605 --> 00:30:44,085 Speaker 2: money being spent? All this money you're getting for the charity, 569 00:30:44,245 --> 00:30:46,765 Speaker 2: is it all going for charitable purposes? They started looking 570 00:30:46,765 --> 00:30:50,285 Speaker 2: into it, sort of accounting were they filing the proper accounts. 571 00:30:51,045 --> 00:30:54,205 Speaker 2: But it wasn't really about Megan's illness. It was how 572 00:30:54,285 --> 00:30:56,925 Speaker 2: was the charity being run, So that was going on. 573 00:30:57,165 --> 00:31:02,445 Speaker 2: Things sort of quietened down. Actually, when Joe and the 574 00:31:02,485 --> 00:31:05,405 Speaker 2: others had put this Facebook group together and posted what 575 00:31:05,405 --> 00:31:08,445 Speaker 2: they knew, the events slowed down as well. There wasn't 576 00:31:08,485 --> 00:31:10,885 Speaker 2: as much activity anymore. So it just felt like maybe 577 00:31:10,925 --> 00:31:14,485 Speaker 2: they had achieved something. Maybe Megan and Jean had stopped 578 00:31:14,485 --> 00:31:18,445 Speaker 2: what they were doing quietly sort of gone back into 579 00:31:18,525 --> 00:31:22,445 Speaker 2: the background. And then this happens. Twenty three years old. 580 00:31:22,485 --> 00:31:28,365 Speaker 2: She dies at the Neuroscience Hospital in London, and Joe's 581 00:31:28,445 --> 00:31:31,845 Speaker 2: left thinking have I got everything wrong? Did she really 582 00:31:31,845 --> 00:31:35,965 Speaker 2: have a brain tumor all this time? Have we just 583 00:31:36,045 --> 00:31:40,485 Speaker 2: completely mistaken? And a lot of the supporters of Believe 584 00:31:40,525 --> 00:31:44,085 Speaker 2: in Magic started posting online saying she was trolled to death. 585 00:31:44,325 --> 00:31:47,925 Speaker 2: These trolls targeting are abusing a like, trying to expose 586 00:31:48,005 --> 00:31:51,805 Speaker 2: her the stress and the strain while she really wasn't unwell. 587 00:31:52,445 --> 00:31:55,285 Speaker 2: What were they doing And it's just not what anyone 588 00:31:55,325 --> 00:31:58,365 Speaker 2: expected to happen, because I think Joe and the others 589 00:31:58,405 --> 00:32:01,605 Speaker 2: just thought this was a simple case of someone pretending 590 00:32:01,685 --> 00:32:04,285 Speaker 2: to have a brain tumor, that didn't raising money to 591 00:32:04,365 --> 00:32:09,605 Speaker 2: go on holiday, not that she'd ever die. Was never 592 00:32:09,645 --> 00:32:12,605 Speaker 2: meant to end like that. That wasn't part of the story. 593 00:32:13,685 --> 00:32:15,045 Speaker 2: But that's what happened. 594 00:32:16,765 --> 00:32:20,925 Speaker 1: After the break. Jamie tells us what happened after Megan's death, 595 00:32:21,365 --> 00:32:23,565 Speaker 1: because just when you think you know how this story 596 00:32:23,645 --> 00:32:32,485 Speaker 1: is going to end, it twists. What was the reaction publicly? 597 00:32:32,565 --> 00:32:36,325 Speaker 1: I mean, I assume everybody came after the sleuths as 598 00:32:36,365 --> 00:32:39,445 Speaker 1: you say, and said that she was trolled to death. 599 00:32:40,605 --> 00:32:44,725 Speaker 1: There was a post mortem and a second post mortem. 600 00:32:45,005 --> 00:32:48,165 Speaker 1: Her funeral was canceled at the last minute and then rescheduled. 601 00:32:48,885 --> 00:32:51,805 Speaker 1: But you didn't become interested in this case until twenty 602 00:32:51,845 --> 00:32:54,445 Speaker 1: twenty one. What sparked your interest. 603 00:32:55,045 --> 00:32:58,045 Speaker 2: I'd done a podcast called The Missing Crypto Queen with 604 00:32:58,085 --> 00:33:02,725 Speaker 2: the BBC about a big Ponzi scheme essentially, And what 605 00:33:02,885 --> 00:33:05,725 Speaker 2: happens when you do those sorts of big stories is 606 00:33:06,325 --> 00:33:08,645 Speaker 2: other people then approach you and say would you like 607 00:33:08,765 --> 00:33:11,205 Speaker 2: to look at this story because you seem to you know, 608 00:33:11,245 --> 00:33:12,805 Speaker 2: you sort of know a little bit about how to 609 00:33:12,845 --> 00:33:17,565 Speaker 2: investigate these things. And a BBC journalist basically got in touch, 610 00:33:17,685 --> 00:33:21,525 Speaker 2: called Ruth Mayer, she's the producer. You hear throughout. She'd 611 00:33:21,565 --> 00:33:23,685 Speaker 2: seen an article in the Times of London and it 612 00:33:23,765 --> 00:33:27,205 Speaker 2: just basically was about the Charity Commission investigating Believe in 613 00:33:27,245 --> 00:33:31,245 Speaker 2: Magic and about the sort of possibility that Megan wasn't 614 00:33:31,245 --> 00:33:34,085 Speaker 2: as ill as she claimed to be. Underneath it just 615 00:33:34,125 --> 00:33:36,405 Speaker 2: had this really cryptic line that the truth is a 616 00:33:36,445 --> 00:33:39,485 Speaker 2: lot darker, the story is a lot stranger than this, 617 00:33:39,485 --> 00:33:42,805 Speaker 2: This isn't the whole story at all, and that obviously, 618 00:33:42,885 --> 00:33:45,325 Speaker 2: for a journalist, you think, oh right, I mean this already, 619 00:33:45,365 --> 00:33:49,805 Speaker 2: this story seems very very unusual and worthy of really 620 00:33:49,805 --> 00:33:53,485 Speaker 2: digging into properly, and there's more to it already there's 621 00:33:53,525 --> 00:33:55,605 Speaker 2: someone saying that something else is going on here. And 622 00:33:55,605 --> 00:33:57,125 Speaker 2: then she gets in touch with me and says, do 623 00:33:57,125 --> 00:33:58,565 Speaker 2: you want to take a look? Do you want to 624 00:33:58,725 --> 00:34:00,045 Speaker 2: think if we can get to the bottom of what's 625 00:34:00,085 --> 00:34:03,805 Speaker 2: really happened here? Because at that point in twenty twenty one, 626 00:34:04,685 --> 00:34:06,725 Speaker 2: no one still really knew what had happened. 627 00:34:07,645 --> 00:34:11,285 Speaker 1: But Jamie didn't that look very straightforward. I mean, the 628 00:34:11,365 --> 00:34:14,445 Speaker 1: charity Commission had looked into the funding and the spending 629 00:34:14,485 --> 00:34:17,605 Speaker 1: of the money, but a girl claimed she had a 630 00:34:17,605 --> 00:34:20,885 Speaker 1: brain tumor for a long period of time and then 631 00:34:21,005 --> 00:34:25,765 Speaker 1: died in a neurological hospital of a brain tumor, according 632 00:34:25,845 --> 00:34:30,325 Speaker 1: to her mother, and had a funeral. So unless all 633 00:34:30,365 --> 00:34:35,365 Speaker 1: of that was made up outside the cancer community, did 634 00:34:35,365 --> 00:34:38,125 Speaker 1: you feel apprehensive about digging around? I mean, what were 635 00:34:38,125 --> 00:34:40,765 Speaker 1: you trying to do besmirch the reputation of a dead 636 00:34:40,805 --> 00:34:43,845 Speaker 1: girl that maybe she smuggled some money. I mean, when 637 00:34:43,845 --> 00:34:46,365 Speaker 1: you thought it was just that story, what was it 638 00:34:46,405 --> 00:34:48,005 Speaker 1: that made you think there was something else there? 639 00:34:48,645 --> 00:34:51,845 Speaker 2: No, I didn't want to bespirch the reputation of anyone, obviously, 640 00:34:52,085 --> 00:34:53,965 Speaker 2: and that was the thing that was really weighing on 641 00:34:54,005 --> 00:34:55,605 Speaker 2: my mind when I was looking at it, thinking do 642 00:34:55,645 --> 00:34:59,125 Speaker 2: I even really want to get into this because the 643 00:34:59,285 --> 00:35:02,405 Speaker 2: young girls died, they'll be a grieving parent. I'm going 644 00:35:02,485 --> 00:35:04,765 Speaker 2: to annoy someone, upset someone. Don't really like doing that 645 00:35:04,805 --> 00:35:08,285 Speaker 2: sort of thing. But no, it wasn't straightforward. It still 646 00:35:08,365 --> 00:35:10,685 Speaker 2: wasn't clear what had happened. And when we spoke to 647 00:35:10,805 --> 00:35:14,445 Speaker 2: Joe before we even started on this properly, she was 648 00:35:14,565 --> 00:35:20,845 Speaker 2: absolutely adamant that Megan did not have a brain tumor. 649 00:35:21,365 --> 00:35:22,885 Speaker 2: She did not have a brain tum she did not 650 00:35:22,965 --> 00:35:25,045 Speaker 2: die of a brain tumor. There was no brain tumor. 651 00:35:25,445 --> 00:35:28,805 Speaker 2: Not only had that money had been misappropriated and misspent, 652 00:35:29,285 --> 00:35:31,405 Speaker 2: but that's one thing, But there was still the mystery 653 00:35:31,445 --> 00:35:33,245 Speaker 2: of how really did she die? 654 00:35:33,285 --> 00:35:33,485 Speaker 1: Then? 655 00:35:34,325 --> 00:35:37,165 Speaker 2: Is there something about this story that we don't really understand? 656 00:35:37,245 --> 00:35:40,205 Speaker 2: And it's something about it didn't add up. There was 657 00:35:40,205 --> 00:35:44,005 Speaker 2: still something that hadn't been uncovered. How did Meghan die? 658 00:35:44,685 --> 00:35:46,965 Speaker 2: How did it get to that? And if we still 659 00:35:46,965 --> 00:35:49,725 Speaker 2: don't really know and no one really knows, shouldn't we 660 00:35:49,765 --> 00:35:52,645 Speaker 2: try and understand this? Shouldn't we try and figure this out? 661 00:35:53,645 --> 00:35:57,885 Speaker 1: Medical records, of course, are private even after someone dies, 662 00:35:58,965 --> 00:36:01,765 Speaker 1: and if Jane didn't want to release those medical records 663 00:36:02,125 --> 00:36:07,885 Speaker 1: as Meghan's mother, you couldn't really get them. Why was 664 00:36:07,885 --> 00:36:09,285 Speaker 1: there a coronial in quest? Actually? 665 00:36:09,685 --> 00:36:13,765 Speaker 2: So the medical records and doctors won't talk to journalists 666 00:36:13,805 --> 00:36:16,925 Speaker 2: about patients even after they've passed away. Really, but if 667 00:36:16,925 --> 00:36:20,485 Speaker 2: there's a coroner's inquest, doctors, yeah, they have to. They're 668 00:36:20,525 --> 00:36:24,485 Speaker 2: basically compelled to. And while you don't necessarily get given 669 00:36:24,525 --> 00:36:27,085 Speaker 2: medical records, they will talk in detail about the case. 670 00:36:27,365 --> 00:36:31,605 Speaker 2: And coroner's inquests are held when someone dies in usually 671 00:36:31,645 --> 00:36:33,885 Speaker 2: in sort of mysterious circumstances. 672 00:36:34,405 --> 00:36:37,405 Speaker 1: Rijitnanov itself suggests that it wasn't just a brain t 673 00:36:37,445 --> 00:36:39,645 Speaker 1: tumor complication exactly. 674 00:36:39,925 --> 00:36:42,445 Speaker 2: Just the fact there was a coroner's inquest held into 675 00:36:42,485 --> 00:36:47,885 Speaker 2: her death. It's sort of suspicious or unusual or unexplained circumstances. 676 00:36:47,885 --> 00:36:50,485 Speaker 2: And there are lots of coroner's inquests held every year, 677 00:36:50,525 --> 00:36:53,725 Speaker 2: and a lot of them people don't really ever hear about. 678 00:36:53,725 --> 00:36:55,405 Speaker 2: I mean, I'd never been to a coroner's inquest. But 679 00:36:55,405 --> 00:36:58,205 Speaker 2: the thing is coroner's inquest was held six months or 680 00:36:58,205 --> 00:37:03,765 Speaker 2: so after she passed away. Coroner's inquests are public courts. 681 00:37:03,925 --> 00:37:06,285 Speaker 2: You can go as a journalist and sit in on 682 00:37:06,325 --> 00:37:10,565 Speaker 2: a coroner's inquest. It's considered to be an open court. 683 00:37:11,365 --> 00:37:14,605 Speaker 2: But once an inquest has taken place, you can't usually 684 00:37:14,645 --> 00:37:18,565 Speaker 2: then access the records afterwards, the transcripts or whatever. So 685 00:37:19,205 --> 00:37:21,685 Speaker 2: we applied to the coroner's court and said, can you 686 00:37:21,725 --> 00:37:23,925 Speaker 2: give us a recording of the you know, of the 687 00:37:23,925 --> 00:37:26,805 Speaker 2: event itself, because this is where we thought we're going 688 00:37:26,845 --> 00:37:29,605 Speaker 2: to get the answers, because doctors would be testifying about 689 00:37:29,645 --> 00:37:32,605 Speaker 2: what they knew, what they saw. Meghan had spent so 690 00:37:32,805 --> 00:37:35,485 Speaker 2: much time in and out of hospitals. She'd been to 691 00:37:36,165 --> 00:37:38,565 Speaker 2: Great Ormond Street she was a patient at Great Ormond Street. 692 00:37:38,645 --> 00:37:42,965 Speaker 2: She'd been seeing by countless specialists, and her GP would 693 00:37:42,965 --> 00:37:46,725 Speaker 2: be there. The pathologists who'd done the post mortems would 694 00:37:46,765 --> 00:37:48,925 Speaker 2: also be testifying. So we thought we will finally get 695 00:37:49,045 --> 00:37:51,685 Speaker 2: an answer whether Megan really had a brain tumor or not, 696 00:37:51,805 --> 00:37:54,045 Speaker 2: and what she really died of and what really happened. 697 00:37:55,085 --> 00:37:57,325 Speaker 2: But we didn't know whether we'd get granted access because 698 00:37:57,365 --> 00:38:00,285 Speaker 2: it's pretty unusual, frankly for a journalist to be given 699 00:38:00,445 --> 00:38:03,445 Speaker 2: transcripts or recordings. I mean, they can't actually give you 700 00:38:03,485 --> 00:38:06,725 Speaker 2: a recording of the coroner's inquest after it's happened, and 701 00:38:06,765 --> 00:38:11,285 Speaker 2: you're not allowed to take recordings in court either. But 702 00:38:11,445 --> 00:38:15,125 Speaker 2: the coroner said, because of this is such an unusual case, 703 00:38:15,245 --> 00:38:18,405 Speaker 2: we're going to let you come into the courtroom and 704 00:38:18,485 --> 00:38:21,445 Speaker 2: I am going to play you a live recording or 705 00:38:21,525 --> 00:38:24,325 Speaker 2: play it for you live once through. So it says 706 00:38:24,365 --> 00:38:26,485 Speaker 2: if you're sitting in the room, you're not allowed to 707 00:38:26,525 --> 00:38:29,245 Speaker 2: record it, but you can take notes, so you will 708 00:38:29,245 --> 00:38:31,405 Speaker 2: be able to hear what happened at that inquest. So 709 00:38:31,445 --> 00:38:36,165 Speaker 2: we got to attend the kind of weirdly four years afterwards, 710 00:38:36,165 --> 00:38:40,445 Speaker 2: got to attend the coroner's inquest into Megan's. 711 00:38:40,045 --> 00:38:42,405 Speaker 1: Death, Jamie, what was that like. 712 00:38:43,445 --> 00:38:46,005 Speaker 2: I'd never been to anything like that before, and I 713 00:38:46,045 --> 00:38:51,925 Speaker 2: didn't understand at the time why there were all these 714 00:38:51,965 --> 00:38:55,965 Speaker 2: restrictions on it. I remember saying to Ruth, why can't 715 00:38:55,965 --> 00:38:58,445 Speaker 2: they just send us the transcript? What's the problem? Why 716 00:38:58,485 --> 00:39:02,445 Speaker 2: can't we I mean, what's the big deal? Which is 717 00:39:02,485 --> 00:39:04,725 Speaker 2: probably a bit insensitive of me, but I was just 718 00:39:04,765 --> 00:39:07,525 Speaker 2: sewing to the story that I wasn't really steeing the 719 00:39:07,565 --> 00:39:10,965 Speaker 2: wood for the trees, because then I sat through it 720 00:39:11,005 --> 00:39:15,085 Speaker 2: and it was grim. It felt intrusive, it was horrible. 721 00:39:15,245 --> 00:39:19,605 Speaker 2: Hated it. It was so detailed, it was so medical. 722 00:39:19,725 --> 00:39:23,965 Speaker 2: It was you know, the pathologists and the anetheist who 723 00:39:24,045 --> 00:39:26,205 Speaker 2: tried to keep Megan alive for hours and hours now 724 00:39:26,245 --> 00:39:29,845 Speaker 2: trying to keep her heart beating and stuff. You're listening 725 00:39:29,925 --> 00:39:33,485 Speaker 2: in minute by minute detail to the last hours of 726 00:39:33,525 --> 00:39:40,325 Speaker 2: a person's life. It's awful. It's awful. I can't it's haunting. 727 00:39:40,365 --> 00:39:42,365 Speaker 2: It's terrible, and I hated it. I hate and I 728 00:39:42,405 --> 00:39:44,605 Speaker 2: came out of it thinking, I understand now why they 729 00:39:44,605 --> 00:39:47,965 Speaker 2: don't just give these things out to journalists. It's private. 730 00:39:48,085 --> 00:39:50,885 Speaker 2: It felt so private to Megan and to Jane, to 731 00:39:50,885 --> 00:39:53,285 Speaker 2: her family that I really felt like I shouldn't have 732 00:39:53,285 --> 00:39:54,365 Speaker 2: been there really at all. 733 00:39:55,445 --> 00:39:59,325 Speaker 1: When you were listening to all of those medical details, 734 00:39:59,925 --> 00:40:03,005 Speaker 1: did you get a sense from what you heard of 735 00:40:03,125 --> 00:40:06,045 Speaker 1: how she died and what she died from? 736 00:40:06,085 --> 00:40:08,085 Speaker 2: You do? So you've got to sort of try to 737 00:40:08,125 --> 00:40:11,245 Speaker 2: shut out the emotion and listen. And you know, there's 738 00:40:11,245 --> 00:40:15,565 Speaker 2: a lot of technical medical language in there, but basically 739 00:40:16,525 --> 00:40:19,605 Speaker 2: there was no mention at all anywhere of a brain tumor. 740 00:40:20,605 --> 00:40:24,045 Speaker 2: The post mortems found that her brain was morphologically normal, 741 00:40:25,765 --> 00:40:29,965 Speaker 2: that she died of cardiac arrhythmia, which is an irregular 742 00:40:30,045 --> 00:40:34,485 Speaker 2: beating of the heart, most likely caused by fatty liver disease, 743 00:40:35,965 --> 00:40:40,165 Speaker 2: likely the result of her obesity, which for a twenty 744 00:40:40,245 --> 00:40:43,485 Speaker 2: three year old to die of cardiac arrhythmia caused by 745 00:40:43,525 --> 00:40:46,045 Speaker 2: fatty liver disease. We spoke to other specialists about this, 746 00:40:46,165 --> 00:40:50,085 Speaker 2: I mean, it is one in a million. It's so unusual, 747 00:40:50,925 --> 00:40:53,845 Speaker 2: it's so unusual. And then we heard all these other 748 00:40:53,965 --> 00:40:57,485 Speaker 2: very worrying details as well. Megan and Gene had been 749 00:40:57,525 --> 00:41:03,325 Speaker 2: doctor hopping, had forged a prescription to get morphine. Some 750 00:41:03,365 --> 00:41:05,885 Speaker 2: of the doctors got together, fearing that there was something 751 00:41:05,925 --> 00:41:08,685 Speaker 2: strange going on here, so they tried to get a 752 00:41:08,685 --> 00:41:11,525 Speaker 2: session with lots of different doctors so they could start 753 00:41:11,565 --> 00:41:13,965 Speaker 2: managing the case. Megan and Ging just wouldn't turn up.