1 00:00:06,415 --> 00:00:15,775 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mumma mea podcast. Hey, I'm Taylor Strano. 2 00:00:15,935 --> 00:00:20,855 Speaker 1: This is Mumma MIA's twice daily news podcast, The Quickie. 3 00:00:20,895 --> 00:00:23,575 Speaker 1: With just more than a week to go, Ossie. Kids 4 00:00:23,655 --> 00:00:27,415 Speaker 1: under sixteen will be booted off the big social media platforms, 5 00:00:27,935 --> 00:00:32,295 Speaker 1: but as dday gets closer, teens aren't logging off, they're 6 00:00:32,335 --> 00:00:35,415 Speaker 1: moving on and experts say that could open the door 7 00:00:35,534 --> 00:00:40,055 Speaker 1: to a whole new wave of scams. So today everything 8 00:00:40,175 --> 00:00:43,135 Speaker 1: else you need to know ahead of the great social 9 00:00:43,175 --> 00:00:46,975 Speaker 1: media band for under sixteens. Before we get there, here's 10 00:00:47,015 --> 00:00:50,455 Speaker 1: Claire Murphy with the latest from the Quickie newsroom for Tuesday, 11 00:00:50,574 --> 00:00:51,495 Speaker 1: December two. 12 00:00:51,775 --> 00:00:54,175 Speaker 2: Thanks Taylor. As safety warning has been issued by the 13 00:00:54,255 --> 00:00:57,655 Speaker 2: National Medicines Regulator over popular drugs used to treat type 14 00:00:57,654 --> 00:01:01,855 Speaker 2: two diabetes and obesity. The Therapeutic Goods Association has updated 15 00:01:01,895 --> 00:01:05,135 Speaker 2: its product information for the relatively new class of medicines 16 00:01:05,175 --> 00:01:09,295 Speaker 2: known ass glp IE receptor agonists, warning of an increased 17 00:01:09,415 --> 00:01:13,895 Speaker 2: risk of potential suicidal ideation. The class includes semaglutide, the 18 00:01:13,975 --> 00:01:18,215 Speaker 2: drug marketed in Australia as ozepic, and Wigovi liraglutide soldi 19 00:01:18,295 --> 00:01:23,255 Speaker 2: saxender Dulla glutide, trilicity and ta zeppetide Mountjaro. The TGA 20 00:01:23,415 --> 00:01:26,295 Speaker 2: says patients taking any of these medicines should tell their 21 00:01:26,295 --> 00:01:31,295 Speaker 2: health professionals if they experience new or worsening depression, suicidal thoughts, 22 00:01:31,415 --> 00:01:34,895 Speaker 2: or any unusual changes in mood or behavior. Hong Kong 23 00:01:34,975 --> 00:01:39,095 Speaker 2: authorities have now arrested thirteen people for suspected manslaughter in 24 00:01:39,135 --> 00:01:42,335 Speaker 2: a probe into the city's deadliest fire in decades, pointing 25 00:01:42,375 --> 00:01:45,575 Speaker 2: to substandard renovation materials for fueling the blaze that has 26 00:01:45,575 --> 00:01:48,735 Speaker 2: claimed at least one hundred and fifty one lives. Police 27 00:01:48,775 --> 00:01:52,215 Speaker 2: continued to sweep the seven towels engulfed in Wednesday's disaster 28 00:01:52,335 --> 00:01:55,695 Speaker 2: at the Wangful Quarter State, finding bodies of residence in 29 00:01:55,775 --> 00:01:58,815 Speaker 2: stairwells and on rooftops where they were trapped as they 30 00:01:58,855 --> 00:02:02,215 Speaker 2: tried to flee the flames. More than forty people remain missing. 31 00:02:02,895 --> 00:02:06,295 Speaker 2: Indonesia's president has told survivors of devastat dating floods that 32 00:02:06,375 --> 00:02:09,454 Speaker 2: help is arriving to those in need. As Asian governments 33 00:02:09,454 --> 00:02:11,855 Speaker 2: scale up their response to a disaster that has left 34 00:02:11,895 --> 00:02:14,575 Speaker 2: more than one thousand people there to cross three countries. 35 00:02:15,095 --> 00:02:18,055 Speaker 2: Hundreds more are missing following flooding and landslides in the 36 00:02:18,095 --> 00:02:20,615 Speaker 2: past week, which has killed at least five hundred and 37 00:02:20,615 --> 00:02:23,335 Speaker 2: two people in Indonesia, three hundred and thirty four in 38 00:02:23,415 --> 00:02:26,935 Speaker 2: Sri Lanka, and one hundred and seventy in Thailand. Indonesian 39 00:02:26,975 --> 00:02:31,295 Speaker 2: President Proboo Subianto pledged to rebuild infrastructure while visiting areas 40 00:02:31,335 --> 00:02:35,014 Speaker 2: affected by floods and landslides on Sumatra Island that left 41 00:02:35,015 --> 00:02:38,055 Speaker 2: thousands homeless and five hundred and eight people missing as 42 00:02:38,055 --> 00:02:41,895 Speaker 2: of Monday. Oxford University Press has named rage bait as 43 00:02:41,935 --> 00:02:44,495 Speaker 2: its word of the year. The term refers to online 44 00:02:44,535 --> 00:02:47,935 Speaker 2: content that is deliberately designed to elicit anger or outrage 45 00:02:47,975 --> 00:02:51,335 Speaker 2: by being frustrating, provocative, or offensive, with the aim of 46 00:02:51,455 --> 00:02:55,095 Speaker 2: driving traffic to a particular social media account. Rage bait 47 00:02:55,135 --> 00:02:58,295 Speaker 2: topped to other contenders or a farming in biohack after 48 00:02:58,335 --> 00:03:01,734 Speaker 2: public comment on a shortlist compiled by lexicographers at Oxford 49 00:03:01,855 --> 00:03:05,175 Speaker 2: University Press, or a farming means to cultivate a public 50 00:03:05,175 --> 00:03:08,135 Speaker 2: imas which by presenting oneself in a way intended subtly 51 00:03:08,215 --> 00:03:11,575 Speaker 2: to convey neir of confidence, corners or mystique. Bio hack 52 00:03:11,695 --> 00:03:14,175 Speaker 2: is defined as an attempt to improve or optimize one's 53 00:03:14,175 --> 00:03:17,615 Speaker 2: physical or mental performance, health or longevity. The pick for 54 00:03:17,695 --> 00:03:21,095 Speaker 2: rage bait came after the mcquarie Dictionary chose ai slop 55 00:03:21,255 --> 00:03:24,415 Speaker 2: and the Cambridge Dictionary selected parasocial for their words of 56 00:03:24,455 --> 00:03:25,334 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. 57 00:03:25,815 --> 00:03:29,615 Speaker 1: Thanks Claire. Next, everything else you need to know ahead 58 00:03:29,655 --> 00:03:38,655 Speaker 1: of the under sixteens social media ban. We're all across 59 00:03:38,695 --> 00:03:42,375 Speaker 1: the headline. From December ten, social media platforms will be 60 00:03:42,495 --> 00:03:46,935 Speaker 1: legally required to block Australians under sixteen from having accounts. 61 00:03:47,495 --> 00:03:53,655 Speaker 1: The law covers the heavy hitters, TikTok, Instagram, snapchat, x, Facebook, YouTube, Reddit, 62 00:03:53,815 --> 00:03:58,615 Speaker 1: kick threads, and Twitch, any age restricted social media platform 63 00:03:58,815 --> 00:04:03,055 Speaker 1: operating here. But the devil is in the detail because 64 00:04:03,055 --> 00:04:05,375 Speaker 1: it's up to each platform to figure out how the 65 00:04:05,775 --> 00:04:08,775 Speaker 1: check ages. They can't just ask for an ID and 66 00:04:08,815 --> 00:04:11,775 Speaker 1: call it a day, and the Safety Commissioner has warned 67 00:04:11,775 --> 00:04:15,775 Speaker 1: companies they'll be expected to use robust age assurance like 68 00:04:15,895 --> 00:04:21,375 Speaker 1: face age estimation, phone data or third party verification. So 69 00:04:21,535 --> 00:04:24,495 Speaker 1: with all that squared away, here's everything else you need 70 00:04:24,575 --> 00:04:30,055 Speaker 1: to know ahead of next week's social media blackout. On 71 00:04:30,095 --> 00:04:34,015 Speaker 1: the topic of age verification, cyber safety specialist are concerned 72 00:04:34,055 --> 00:04:36,415 Speaker 1: these new checks to make sure you are in fact 73 00:04:36,535 --> 00:04:39,695 Speaker 1: the age you claim to be are a scammer's dream. 74 00:04:39,975 --> 00:04:43,895 Speaker 1: If everyone's expecting age verification pop ups, it becomes much 75 00:04:43,935 --> 00:04:47,055 Speaker 1: easier to send fake prove your age to keep your account, 76 00:04:47,095 --> 00:04:51,215 Speaker 1: text or emails that harvest personal data or install malware. 77 00:04:51,815 --> 00:04:55,214 Speaker 1: Experts are warning a wave of age check phishing scams 78 00:04:55,255 --> 00:04:56,175 Speaker 1: are on the horizon. 79 00:04:57,175 --> 00:05:03,135 Speaker 3: It's mostly around scammers getting a new opportunity to ask 80 00:05:03,615 --> 00:05:07,854 Speaker 3: people for more information. New information in this particular case 81 00:05:07,895 --> 00:05:13,974 Speaker 3: would be around documents that would verify someone's age, and 82 00:05:14,535 --> 00:05:19,094 Speaker 3: those could be linked to someone's real identity, example being 83 00:05:19,215 --> 00:05:23,855 Speaker 3: a driver's license or proof of age card or passports. 84 00:05:24,335 --> 00:05:26,535 Speaker 3: One thing we need to be clear of is it's 85 00:05:26,775 --> 00:05:30,655 Speaker 3: at this moment a speculation that this may happen, but 86 00:05:31,415 --> 00:05:36,015 Speaker 3: it could happen to anyone at any age, because we 87 00:05:36,135 --> 00:05:39,615 Speaker 3: could imagine a message coming to us saying, hey, we 88 00:05:39,655 --> 00:05:43,294 Speaker 3: could not verify your age. You need to upload these 89 00:05:43,335 --> 00:05:47,335 Speaker 3: documents and to be able to confirm that your age 90 00:05:47,375 --> 00:05:48,415 Speaker 3: is correct. 91 00:05:48,695 --> 00:05:53,295 Speaker 1: That's Associate Professor Hassan Aska, an expert in cybersecurity at 92 00:05:53,375 --> 00:05:58,214 Speaker 1: Macquarie University. The Safety Commissioner says platforms should be clear 93 00:05:58,255 --> 00:06:01,855 Speaker 1: about what's legit, spelling out exactly what they'll ask for 94 00:06:02,215 --> 00:06:07,135 Speaker 1: and how, but advocates argue go read the help pages 95 00:06:07,455 --> 00:06:11,415 Speaker 1: is not enough protection when people are rushed, emotional and 96 00:06:11,575 --> 00:06:16,255 Speaker 1: staring at something that looks official. Then there's the digital migration. 97 00:06:16,775 --> 00:06:20,015 Speaker 1: This weekend, little known apps like Yop and Lemonade shot 98 00:06:20,055 --> 00:06:22,975 Speaker 1: to the top of the Australian App Store charts after 99 00:06:23,055 --> 00:06:26,815 Speaker 1: TikTok videos suggested they could be safe havens from the ban. 100 00:06:27,295 --> 00:06:29,135 Speaker 1: So we are using this yop app for the ban. 101 00:06:29,575 --> 00:06:34,055 Speaker 1: Somebody tell everybody download Yop before December tenth. Teens are 102 00:06:34,095 --> 00:06:36,255 Speaker 1: also trading tips in the comments. 103 00:06:36,575 --> 00:06:40,855 Speaker 4: Lemonade is a TikTok replacement and Yop is a Snap replacement. 104 00:06:41,575 --> 00:06:46,455 Speaker 1: Alongside suggestions to try Telegram, rodeblocks or Chinese app red Note. 105 00:06:46,855 --> 00:06:50,094 Speaker 1: At the moment, neither Yop nor Lemonade have been formally 106 00:06:50,175 --> 00:06:53,414 Speaker 1: named by the Safety Commissioner as a platform that must 107 00:06:53,455 --> 00:06:56,854 Speaker 1: comply with the ban, but the laws say all social 108 00:06:56,895 --> 00:07:00,175 Speaker 1: media services have to keep one hundred sixteens out, and 109 00:07:00,335 --> 00:07:03,295 Speaker 1: regulators have flagged they'll be watching where kids move and 110 00:07:03,415 --> 00:07:06,055 Speaker 1: can add new apps to the list. There's also a 111 00:07:06,055 --> 00:07:09,615 Speaker 1: growing fear about VPN scams under sixteens who are locked 112 00:07:09,655 --> 00:07:12,615 Speaker 1: out of their accounts may turn to ban workaround ads 113 00:07:12,695 --> 00:07:15,455 Speaker 1: or free VPN offers that promise to make them look 114 00:07:15,535 --> 00:07:20,135 Speaker 1: older or outside Australia. But these two carry risks. 115 00:07:20,095 --> 00:07:26,895 Speaker 3: Because they would be using these VPNs to circumvent the 116 00:07:27,175 --> 00:07:33,375 Speaker 3: AIDE verification process. They might use VPNs that themselves are 117 00:07:34,055 --> 00:07:39,895 Speaker 3: not secure, so that would mean that installing these VPN 118 00:07:40,015 --> 00:07:46,215 Speaker 3: services on their phones would be welcoming these companies to 119 00:07:46,935 --> 00:07:51,775 Speaker 3: harvest their data. Also, some of these VPN companies, which 120 00:07:51,815 --> 00:07:55,255 Speaker 3: are not say the top providers, would also have some 121 00:07:55,415 --> 00:07:59,735 Speaker 3: sort of malware or buggy software that could make their 122 00:07:59,775 --> 00:08:03,735 Speaker 3: phones more susceptible to viruses or other malware. 123 00:08:04,655 --> 00:08:07,935 Speaker 1: Cyber risky experts say this is exactly what happened in 124 00:08:07,975 --> 00:08:12,495 Speaker 1: other countries when apps were blocked. People googled FREEBPN, downloaded 125 00:08:12,495 --> 00:08:16,135 Speaker 1: the first result and ended up with malicious software tracking 126 00:08:16,175 --> 00:08:16,975 Speaker 1: their every move. 127 00:08:17,815 --> 00:08:18,695 Speaker 4: So as the. 128 00:08:18,655 --> 00:08:21,535 Speaker 1: Bandkicks in next week, the big questions less about whether 129 00:08:21,615 --> 00:08:25,335 Speaker 1: TikTok or Snapchat will disappear from kids' lives and now 130 00:08:25,375 --> 00:08:28,655 Speaker 1: more about where they'll go next and how will really 131 00:08:28,695 --> 00:08:31,855 Speaker 1: be prepared for the scams and shadier spaces that might 132 00:08:31,895 --> 00:08:35,535 Speaker 1: be waiting. Craggy Associate editor Cam Wilson has been looking 133 00:08:35,535 --> 00:08:39,255 Speaker 1: into it. Cam should we really be surprised that teens 134 00:08:39,295 --> 00:08:42,295 Speaker 1: are finding ways to circumvent this upcoming. 135 00:08:41,935 --> 00:08:45,495 Speaker 4: Band on the slidest? So, I mean, we always knew 136 00:08:45,535 --> 00:08:48,775 Speaker 4: that teens were creative, that they find new ways to 137 00:08:48,895 --> 00:08:53,575 Speaker 4: use technology, So given a roadblock, it's completely unsurprising that 138 00:08:53,575 --> 00:08:55,895 Speaker 4: they would find around it. But it's also something that 139 00:08:55,935 --> 00:08:59,495 Speaker 4: has been on the radar of the government for pretty 140 00:08:59,535 --> 00:09:01,895 Speaker 4: much the whole time, and even before the ban was passed. 141 00:09:02,335 --> 00:09:05,095 Speaker 4: It's been a pretty long process. It's taken just every 142 00:09:05,175 --> 00:09:08,335 Speaker 4: year from when the band was actually passed through Parliament 143 00:09:08,335 --> 00:09:11,615 Speaker 4: and even longer before that. And one of the kind 144 00:09:11,615 --> 00:09:16,015 Speaker 4: of big concerns about banning access to social media for 145 00:09:16,215 --> 00:09:18,775 Speaker 4: children under sixteen and for them having accounts on the 146 00:09:18,815 --> 00:09:22,215 Speaker 4: platforms was always like many other digital things, not that 147 00:09:22,215 --> 00:09:24,215 Speaker 4: they wouldn't be able to access it, but they would 148 00:09:24,335 --> 00:09:26,975 Speaker 4: quit pretty easily find something else that would do the job. 149 00:09:27,255 --> 00:09:29,215 Speaker 1: And it seems that they have found something else. Talk 150 00:09:29,255 --> 00:09:32,334 Speaker 1: to me about YopE and Lemonade. What are these apps? 151 00:09:32,375 --> 00:09:33,375 Speaker 1: What are they being used for? 152 00:09:33,935 --> 00:09:36,574 Speaker 4: Yeah, they're kind of obscurio sauting on there like I 153 00:09:36,615 --> 00:09:38,934 Speaker 4: don't know if you've had the same experience. But now 154 00:09:38,975 --> 00:09:42,255 Speaker 4: when you go to buy something off your platform like Amazon, 155 00:09:42,575 --> 00:09:45,095 Speaker 4: and they've got all these generic brands of words that 156 00:09:45,095 --> 00:09:46,895 Speaker 4: you've never heard before, and what is that you didn't 157 00:09:46,895 --> 00:09:49,255 Speaker 4: know that went together the open and made a kind 158 00:09:49,255 --> 00:09:51,975 Speaker 4: of like that for most people. Lemonade probably is the 159 00:09:52,095 --> 00:09:53,815 Speaker 4: easiest one to explain, which is a bit of an 160 00:09:53,855 --> 00:09:56,735 Speaker 4: Instagram cone and it was actually launched by by Dance, 161 00:09:56,735 --> 00:09:59,375 Speaker 4: which is the company that owns TikTok as well, so 162 00:09:59,415 --> 00:10:02,334 Speaker 4: that's their kind of like Instagram version. And Eyope is 163 00:10:02,375 --> 00:10:06,094 Speaker 4: a little known on social media platform that combines i 164 00:10:06,095 --> 00:10:10,175 Speaker 4: would say Snapchat and Instagram allows users to essentially have 165 00:10:10,215 --> 00:10:12,695 Speaker 4: like groups that they share messages and videos with. It's 166 00:10:12,735 --> 00:10:16,415 Speaker 4: almost like a private or limited to specific groups for 167 00:10:16,495 --> 00:10:19,815 Speaker 4: like sharing stuff that you see online. And the reason 168 00:10:19,815 --> 00:10:22,015 Speaker 4: that these are two aps that we're talking about now 169 00:10:22,135 --> 00:10:25,775 Speaker 4: is not because they've suddenly gradually taken over the chance, 170 00:10:25,815 --> 00:10:28,055 Speaker 4: but they've suddenly shot to the top of them because 171 00:10:28,375 --> 00:10:31,255 Speaker 4: teens online knowing that in just a few days that 172 00:10:31,335 --> 00:10:35,015 Speaker 4: the major platforms are going to restrict access, hoping for alternatives, 173 00:10:35,015 --> 00:10:37,454 Speaker 4: and so those are two of the alternatives that come 174 00:10:37,535 --> 00:10:40,815 Speaker 4: up with because they think that these apps won't actually 175 00:10:40,895 --> 00:10:42,895 Speaker 4: enforce the ban because they're not on the list of 176 00:10:43,054 --> 00:10:46,135 Speaker 4: platforms that the government says needs to enforce the restrictions 177 00:10:46,135 --> 00:10:46,815 Speaker 4: on under six step. 178 00:10:47,175 --> 00:10:47,375 Speaker 3: Yeah. 179 00:10:47,375 --> 00:10:50,375 Speaker 1: It's interesting, right, because the Safety Commissioner has said, on 180 00:10:50,375 --> 00:10:53,615 Speaker 1: one hand, they're very aware that teens will find ways 181 00:10:53,655 --> 00:10:56,135 Speaker 1: to sort of slip through the cracks or circumvent the ban. 182 00:10:56,295 --> 00:10:59,335 Speaker 1: That might be things like flocking to these more obscure 183 00:10:59,415 --> 00:11:03,215 Speaker 1: social media apps. But is the way that maybe the 184 00:11:03,255 --> 00:11:05,375 Speaker 1: government are going to negate that is they're just going 185 00:11:05,375 --> 00:11:07,815 Speaker 1: to keep adding apps to the ban every day, Like 186 00:11:07,855 --> 00:11:09,335 Speaker 1: where do we go from here? 187 00:11:10,375 --> 00:11:13,255 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, look, I think 188 00:11:13,655 --> 00:11:15,175 Speaker 4: one of the things that make social media apps a 189 00:11:15,175 --> 00:11:17,295 Speaker 4: little bit different to other things online is this idea 190 00:11:17,295 --> 00:11:19,655 Speaker 4: of the network effect. One of the things that keeps 191 00:11:19,735 --> 00:11:22,695 Speaker 4: us on platforms like Facebook and Instagram, even though many 192 00:11:22,735 --> 00:11:25,334 Speaker 4: of us do to belove it, is because all of 193 00:11:25,415 --> 00:11:28,814 Speaker 4: our friends, our family, our connections are there. When you 194 00:11:28,855 --> 00:11:30,814 Speaker 4: get rid of something like or are you stript to 195 00:11:30,855 --> 00:11:33,574 Speaker 4: access to something like those social media platforms, it's a 196 00:11:33,615 --> 00:11:35,895 Speaker 4: little bit more different just to go to an alternative, right, 197 00:11:35,975 --> 00:11:38,335 Speaker 4: because you've got to kind of congregate. Everyone's going to 198 00:11:38,375 --> 00:11:40,055 Speaker 4: go there at the same time, almost like a bit 199 00:11:40,095 --> 00:11:42,095 Speaker 4: of a like first person to go there. There's no 200 00:11:42,135 --> 00:11:44,215 Speaker 4: one there. So it is a difficult theme and I 201 00:11:44,215 --> 00:11:46,855 Speaker 4: think it's something that we wouldn't assume necessarily that comes 202 00:11:46,855 --> 00:11:50,535 Speaker 4: December tent everyone will have just migrated to the same platforms. 203 00:11:50,775 --> 00:11:52,735 Speaker 4: But at the same time, it is something that has 204 00:11:52,735 --> 00:11:54,615 Speaker 4: been on the governments rate at for a while and 205 00:11:54,655 --> 00:11:57,095 Speaker 4: the government's very aware of that. They've said, hey, this 206 00:11:57,175 --> 00:11:59,215 Speaker 4: is a dynamic list. We're going to add to the list, 207 00:11:59,295 --> 00:12:01,055 Speaker 4: but we wanted to give you a list of apps 208 00:12:01,295 --> 00:12:03,535 Speaker 4: just so you knew which ones would definitely be in 209 00:12:03,535 --> 00:12:06,814 Speaker 4: the band, because you know, they are scarting to acknowledge 210 00:12:06,815 --> 00:12:09,454 Speaker 4: that the transition for a lot of teens who will 211 00:12:09,455 --> 00:12:11,815 Speaker 4: be restricting on these platforms, it's actually what a tough one, 212 00:12:11,815 --> 00:12:12,934 Speaker 4: A is an emotional one. You know, they've got a 213 00:12:12,975 --> 00:12:15,695 Speaker 4: lot of memories on their little friends in there. So 214 00:12:15,695 --> 00:12:17,775 Speaker 4: what they're supposed to be doing is giving people notice 215 00:12:17,815 --> 00:12:19,775 Speaker 4: so they can prepare, and part of that is saying 216 00:12:19,935 --> 00:12:22,454 Speaker 4: these are actually going to lose access to But as 217 00:12:22,455 --> 00:12:24,855 Speaker 4: I mentioned before, they said they will add to that. 218 00:12:25,095 --> 00:12:27,495 Speaker 4: The game of whack a mole is that there's always 219 00:12:27,575 --> 00:12:29,655 Speaker 4: going to be new offerings that come up all the time. 220 00:12:29,695 --> 00:12:31,255 Speaker 4: You know, anyone can now spin up their own social 221 00:12:31,295 --> 00:12:34,814 Speaker 4: media network if they want pretty easily. So even when 222 00:12:34,815 --> 00:12:36,935 Speaker 4: the government is like, hey we've added this to the list, 223 00:12:37,175 --> 00:12:40,375 Speaker 4: you know, another one another does and will emerge pretty quickly. 224 00:12:40,415 --> 00:12:42,815 Speaker 4: So it is it's a pretty difficult challenge. 225 00:12:43,095 --> 00:12:46,415 Speaker 1: Some social media giants say that by keeping teens off 226 00:12:46,455 --> 00:12:48,815 Speaker 1: their platforms, it's going to force them into these like 227 00:12:48,975 --> 00:12:51,655 Speaker 1: darker corners of the Internet. Now I'm not saying that 228 00:12:51,695 --> 00:12:54,775 Speaker 1: these other obscure social media apps are the dark corners, 229 00:12:54,815 --> 00:12:57,135 Speaker 1: but is that true? Is it that teens will still 230 00:12:57,135 --> 00:13:00,535 Speaker 1: be online, but they'll just be maybe in more dangerous spaces. 231 00:13:01,255 --> 00:13:03,175 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's one of the fears. So I think, like 232 00:13:03,375 --> 00:13:04,975 Speaker 4: you know, the kind of context for this is that 233 00:13:05,135 --> 00:13:06,895 Speaker 4: I think generally there is not a lot of trust 234 00:13:06,935 --> 00:13:09,495 Speaker 4: in the major social media platforms and how they've treated 235 00:13:09,695 --> 00:13:13,095 Speaker 4: people generally and their effect on us all but especially kids. 236 00:13:13,575 --> 00:13:15,695 Speaker 4: So over the last few years you've seen the tech 237 00:13:15,735 --> 00:13:18,535 Speaker 4: giants do more and more in that space. I'm not 238 00:13:18,535 --> 00:13:20,055 Speaker 4: going to necessarily say it was out of the goodness 239 00:13:20,054 --> 00:13:21,775 Speaker 4: of their heart. There has been a lot of regulation, 240 00:13:21,855 --> 00:13:24,375 Speaker 4: including by Australia, saying these are the things you need 241 00:13:24,375 --> 00:13:27,454 Speaker 4: to start doing to improve the experience for young people 242 00:13:27,455 --> 00:13:30,095 Speaker 4: who we know are more vulnerable to these things. But 243 00:13:30,135 --> 00:13:32,175 Speaker 4: one of the fears of the band is that we say, Okay, 244 00:13:32,215 --> 00:13:35,375 Speaker 4: we're getting kids off these platforms that is causing them harm. 245 00:13:35,775 --> 00:13:38,214 Speaker 4: But the alternative is they are going to go somewhere else, 246 00:13:38,335 --> 00:13:39,975 Speaker 4: or perhaps they're even going to figure out a way 247 00:13:40,054 --> 00:13:42,375 Speaker 4: to get around the band, stay on these platforms and 248 00:13:42,415 --> 00:13:45,215 Speaker 4: maybe have a worse experience because you know, for example, 249 00:13:45,455 --> 00:13:47,655 Speaker 4: we actually can't favor company, but I'm not going to 250 00:13:47,695 --> 00:13:50,055 Speaker 4: cast dis versions of them, but I couldn't find anything 251 00:13:50,095 --> 00:13:52,535 Speaker 4: on their website that really display, you know, what they 252 00:13:52,535 --> 00:13:54,775 Speaker 4: do about trust and safety and how they kind of 253 00:13:54,815 --> 00:13:57,455 Speaker 4: moderate that. Because they are a small alternative compared to 254 00:13:57,455 --> 00:13:59,855 Speaker 4: these major platforms, that the fact that they are so 255 00:13:59,935 --> 00:14:02,575 Speaker 4: big comes of problems, but also means that generally the 256 00:14:02,615 --> 00:14:04,975 Speaker 4: resources they're putting towards these things, I'm more than some 257 00:14:05,015 --> 00:14:07,055 Speaker 4: of the small players. And then you just for the 258 00:14:07,054 --> 00:14:10,215 Speaker 4: fact that some teens are already finding out ways to 259 00:14:10,495 --> 00:14:12,775 Speaker 4: get around the band and say on these platforms, the 260 00:14:12,815 --> 00:14:16,735 Speaker 4: major ones, your Facebook, Tor, snapchatsy, whatever, and by doing so, 261 00:14:16,935 --> 00:14:20,055 Speaker 4: what they've actually done is they've gotten around Mediti's platforms 262 00:14:20,095 --> 00:14:23,615 Speaker 4: already have youth specific experiences. So for example, if you 263 00:14:23,655 --> 00:14:26,815 Speaker 4: Instagram knows at the moment you're thirteen to eighteen, they 264 00:14:26,975 --> 00:14:29,335 Speaker 4: restrict the amount of content that they show you. They 265 00:14:29,335 --> 00:14:32,055 Speaker 4: make it so that random adults can't just message you, 266 00:14:32,415 --> 00:14:34,695 Speaker 4: because that's what they've said about how they've tried to 267 00:14:34,775 --> 00:14:37,855 Speaker 4: improve the experience for young people. But if you've convinced 268 00:14:37,855 --> 00:14:40,455 Speaker 4: Instagram that you're eighteen, suddenly you don't have those safety 269 00:14:40,455 --> 00:14:43,815 Speaker 4: speeches anymore. So, you know, one of the unintended consequences 270 00:14:43,895 --> 00:14:46,655 Speaker 4: that's always been predicular to this ban is like, yes, 271 00:14:46,775 --> 00:14:49,455 Speaker 4: you get kids off social media if it works as 272 00:14:49,455 --> 00:14:51,775 Speaker 4: well as you say, but then like what happens next? 273 00:14:51,855 --> 00:14:54,135 Speaker 4: Where do they go and what would the experience be like? 274 00:14:54,215 --> 00:14:55,695 Speaker 4: And give are real fears about that? 275 00:14:55,855 --> 00:14:57,335 Speaker 1: One more thing I want to touch on with you. 276 00:14:57,415 --> 00:15:00,055 Speaker 1: Cam is in the news this week. There's also been 277 00:15:00,095 --> 00:15:03,815 Speaker 1: this rise in concern from cybersecurity experts that with the 278 00:15:03,895 --> 00:15:07,855 Speaker 1: age verification element to this under sixteen span rolling out, 279 00:15:07,935 --> 00:15:10,055 Speaker 1: that it could put not just teams, but all of 280 00:15:10,135 --> 00:15:13,935 Speaker 1: us at more of a vulnerable risk for phishing scams. 281 00:15:14,175 --> 00:15:16,055 Speaker 1: Have you come across this in what you've been looking 282 00:15:16,055 --> 00:15:16,735 Speaker 1: into as well. 283 00:15:17,135 --> 00:15:19,815 Speaker 4: Yeah, So, I mean the thing about the teen social 284 00:15:19,855 --> 00:15:23,695 Speaker 4: media ban is that to get kids off your platforms, 285 00:15:23,895 --> 00:15:25,775 Speaker 4: you need to figure out the age of all your users. 286 00:15:25,895 --> 00:15:27,695 Speaker 4: And to figure out the age of all your users, 287 00:15:27,815 --> 00:15:30,855 Speaker 4: there's a variety of things that these platforms have already 288 00:15:30,855 --> 00:15:32,455 Speaker 4: said that they'll do, and then we know that they'll do. 289 00:15:32,735 --> 00:15:34,695 Speaker 4: It's everything from looking at the data you already have 290 00:15:34,815 --> 00:15:37,375 Speaker 4: on those platforms. So, for example, we're going to age myself. 291 00:15:37,375 --> 00:15:39,655 Speaker 4: He out probably had like a Facebook out for fifteen years. 292 00:15:39,935 --> 00:15:42,575 Speaker 4: Facebook and Meta which owns Facebook. They can look at 293 00:15:42,655 --> 00:15:44,895 Speaker 4: my data and be like, Okay, he's had this a 294 00:15:44,935 --> 00:15:46,935 Speaker 4: cap for fifteen years. He's calling an old guy like, 295 00:15:46,935 --> 00:15:49,375 Speaker 4: wet him through. But if they don't have enough information 296 00:15:49,495 --> 00:15:52,055 Speaker 4: or they suspect that you are under sixteen, there are 297 00:15:52,175 --> 00:15:54,855 Speaker 4: more invasive methods that they use to prove your age. 298 00:15:54,975 --> 00:15:57,735 Speaker 4: Primarily those are scanning your face which is like a 299 00:15:57,735 --> 00:16:01,895 Speaker 4: facial analysis with a video selfie, or uploading government ID 300 00:16:02,455 --> 00:16:05,215 Speaker 4: And by doing that by requiring people for the first 301 00:16:05,255 --> 00:16:09,135 Speaker 4: time to be putting more information into these platforms. But onally, 302 00:16:09,215 --> 00:16:11,135 Speaker 4: is there a risk of new handing over that data 303 00:16:11,175 --> 00:16:14,215 Speaker 4: to their social media platforms, but also other people exploiting 304 00:16:14,215 --> 00:16:16,255 Speaker 4: that people have been told that they might at the 305 00:16:16,255 --> 00:16:18,335 Speaker 4: handle of their driver's license. Why don't we just act 306 00:16:18,375 --> 00:16:20,535 Speaker 4: like a social media company and ask for their driver's license. 307 00:16:20,815 --> 00:16:22,895 Speaker 4: It is a new vector of risk. I would say 308 00:16:22,935 --> 00:16:26,175 Speaker 4: that the major platforms generally are pretty good at managing, 309 00:16:26,215 --> 00:16:28,735 Speaker 4: at least on their end, although we did see already 310 00:16:29,055 --> 00:16:31,575 Speaker 4: in before this came in a breach of Discord, which 311 00:16:31,615 --> 00:16:34,975 Speaker 4: is a major messaging app, which actually breached the data 312 00:16:35,055 --> 00:16:37,095 Speaker 4: of a bunch of people who had verified their age 313 00:16:37,095 --> 00:16:39,615 Speaker 4: before the law came in. But generally that's a huge 314 00:16:39,615 --> 00:16:42,175 Speaker 4: concerned I have heard Privacy Commission from the whole group 315 00:16:42,215 --> 00:16:44,935 Speaker 4: of people saying that in this time when things are changing, 316 00:16:44,975 --> 00:16:46,775 Speaker 4: we don't know much about it. It's all new to us. 317 00:16:46,975 --> 00:16:49,575 Speaker 4: This is the time when scammers, people who are trying 318 00:16:49,575 --> 00:16:51,495 Speaker 4: to abuse us kind of strike and this is a 319 00:16:51,535 --> 00:16:54,295 Speaker 4: new way to exploit, to ask them to count of 320 00:16:54,455 --> 00:16:56,775 Speaker 4: information that they know they're suposed to give over. But 321 00:16:57,295 --> 00:16:58,855 Speaker 4: we can kind of take advantage of fact there's all 322 00:16:58,895 --> 00:17:00,575 Speaker 4: news to them and maybe slip in and take advantage 323 00:17:00,575 --> 00:17:01,495 Speaker 4: of it ourselves. 324 00:17:02,055 --> 00:17:04,334 Speaker 1: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with 325 00:17:04,455 --> 00:17:07,294 Speaker 1: us today. Hey, if you're enjoying the show, we'd love 326 00:17:07,335 --> 00:17:09,494 Speaker 1: to hear from you. You can leave a review five 327 00:17:09,574 --> 00:17:12,455 Speaker 1: stars whatever platform you're listening in on. It all helps 328 00:17:12,455 --> 00:17:16,294 Speaker 1: a bunch. Thanks heaps in advance. The Quickie is produced 329 00:17:16,294 --> 00:17:19,814 Speaker 1: by me Taylor Strano, Laria Brophy, and Clare Murphy, with 330 00:17:19,935 --> 00:17:21,814 Speaker 1: audio production by Lou Hill. 331 00:17:28,094 --> 00:17:28,334 Speaker 4: Momma. 332 00:17:28,415 --> 00:17:31,294 Speaker 2: Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that 333 00:17:31,375 --> 00:17:32,935 Speaker 2: this podcast is recorded on