1 00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:15,294 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges 2 00:00:15,334 --> 00:00:18,174 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 3 00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:21,294 Speaker 1: is recorded on Hey QUICKI friends, it's Claire Murphy here, 4 00:00:21,334 --> 00:00:23,614 Speaker 1: popping back into your feed in place of your normal 5 00:00:23,654 --> 00:00:27,654 Speaker 1: evening headlines today, because well, there is still quite a 6 00:00:27,654 --> 00:00:30,574 Speaker 1: bit to unpack from the US elections. So take a 7 00:00:30,654 --> 00:00:33,254 Speaker 1: listen to Mumma Mia co founder and Out Loud co 8 00:00:33,334 --> 00:00:37,094 Speaker 1: host Mia Friedman and Foreign Policy Magazine's deputy editor and 9 00:00:37,214 --> 00:00:41,494 Speaker 1: Mumma MEA's US correspondent Emilia Lester, answering the most asked 10 00:00:41,574 --> 00:00:45,014 Speaker 1: questions about this election from you, the Mumma Mea audience. 11 00:00:46,974 --> 00:00:51,134 Speaker 2: It is okay to feel sad and disappoint it, but 12 00:00:51,294 --> 00:00:54,774 Speaker 2: please know what's going to be okay. On the campaign, 13 00:00:55,014 --> 00:00:59,174 Speaker 2: I would often say, when we fight, we win. But 14 00:00:59,294 --> 00:01:03,014 Speaker 2: here's the thing. Here's the thing. Sometimes the fight takes 15 00:01:03,054 --> 00:01:03,454 Speaker 2: a while. 16 00:01:04,694 --> 00:01:06,294 Speaker 3: That doesn't mean we won't win. 17 00:01:06,614 --> 00:01:11,254 Speaker 2: And don't you ever listen every one tells you something 18 00:01:11,334 --> 00:01:14,894 Speaker 2: isn't possible because it has never been done before. 19 00:01:15,934 --> 00:01:19,614 Speaker 4: Hello, out louders, it's Mea Friedman here dropping into your 20 00:01:19,694 --> 00:01:22,734 Speaker 4: feed for a special bonus episode of mum and Me 21 00:01:22,854 --> 00:01:25,934 Speaker 4: Are Out Loud and thanks to all the out louders 22 00:01:25,934 --> 00:01:29,614 Speaker 4: who've checked on me in the group in my DMS. 23 00:01:30,374 --> 00:01:33,094 Speaker 4: What a week it's been, of course, with the US 24 00:01:33,214 --> 00:01:36,974 Speaker 4: presidential election. This is a special extra episode, so if 25 00:01:37,014 --> 00:01:39,974 Speaker 4: you're not into US politics, don't panic. We will still 26 00:01:40,014 --> 00:01:42,934 Speaker 4: be coming into your ears with a regular news free 27 00:01:42,974 --> 00:01:46,054 Speaker 4: episode on Friday. But we know that so many of 28 00:01:46,094 --> 00:01:50,574 Speaker 4: you have been writing a rollercoaster of emotions, wondering how 29 00:01:50,574 --> 00:01:54,254 Speaker 4: we landed on the news that broke yesterday that Donald 30 00:01:54,294 --> 00:01:57,574 Speaker 4: Trump has been re elected. We've heard you, and that 31 00:01:57,774 --> 00:02:01,334 Speaker 4: is why today Amelia Lester, deputy editor of Foreign Policy 32 00:02:01,374 --> 00:02:05,574 Speaker 4: magazine and mum me as US correspondent, has jumped on 33 00:02:05,614 --> 00:02:08,934 Speaker 4: a call with me. I'm in the podcast studio, she's 34 00:02:08,974 --> 00:02:12,694 Speaker 4: at home, and we wanted to help you understand the 35 00:02:12,734 --> 00:02:16,574 Speaker 4: facts of how we got here. First of all, welcome 36 00:02:16,574 --> 00:02:18,854 Speaker 4: Amelia hashtag. Are you okay? 37 00:02:19,454 --> 00:02:23,574 Speaker 3: Hello? I didn't think we'd be talking this soon after 38 00:02:23,654 --> 00:02:26,774 Speaker 3: what happened yesterday, but I'm finding that it's helping to 39 00:02:27,174 --> 00:02:28,974 Speaker 3: sift through the facts a little bit. 40 00:02:29,174 --> 00:02:31,454 Speaker 4: Good because I still haven't looked at a news site 41 00:02:31,934 --> 00:02:36,974 Speaker 4: or a news screen, no news coverage, and I'm getting 42 00:02:37,014 --> 00:02:40,854 Speaker 4: my information exclusively through my group chats, you and my 43 00:02:40,934 --> 00:02:43,414 Speaker 4: other media friends who are feeding me the need to 44 00:02:43,414 --> 00:02:46,654 Speaker 4: know information. Now, as I said on yesterday's episode, we 45 00:02:46,734 --> 00:02:49,334 Speaker 4: unpack the emotions. Today, we're talking about the facts. Let's 46 00:02:49,334 --> 00:02:51,854 Speaker 4: start with the final vote count. How did it land? 47 00:02:52,414 --> 00:02:55,974 Speaker 3: Well, the votes are still being countered, but it's safe 48 00:02:56,014 --> 00:03:00,054 Speaker 3: to say that this is a resounding victory for Donald Trump. 49 00:03:00,254 --> 00:03:04,734 Speaker 3: He didn't just squeak by. Already, we've discovered that he 50 00:03:04,854 --> 00:03:08,014 Speaker 3: got fewer votes than Joe Biden got in twenty twenty. 51 00:03:08,094 --> 00:03:12,454 Speaker 3: Joe Biden still has the most of any presidential candidate, 52 00:03:12,574 --> 00:03:16,334 Speaker 3: and history turnout is looking lower than twenty twenty two, 53 00:03:16,454 --> 00:03:20,454 Speaker 3: significantly lower. That's not in itself surprising, and twenty twenty 54 00:03:20,454 --> 00:03:24,094 Speaker 3: everyone was at home in the track suit pants. But 55 00:03:24,174 --> 00:03:27,814 Speaker 3: it is interesting, given that the Democrats really hinged this 56 00:03:27,974 --> 00:03:30,534 Speaker 3: election on the idea that it might be the last, 57 00:03:30,734 --> 00:03:33,814 Speaker 3: it's the most important election in US history, it doesn't 58 00:03:33,894 --> 00:03:37,974 Speaker 3: seem like the American people agreed with that definition. 59 00:03:38,414 --> 00:03:41,014 Speaker 4: First of all, none of the polls predicted this. It 60 00:03:41,094 --> 00:03:43,974 Speaker 4: was always meant to be close. Every single poll said 61 00:03:44,014 --> 00:03:45,854 Speaker 4: it was going to be really, really close. So it's 62 00:03:45,854 --> 00:03:48,374 Speaker 4: almost like we were geared up for a result that 63 00:03:48,454 --> 00:03:51,334 Speaker 4: never came, which was either a marginal Trump victory or 64 00:03:51,374 --> 00:03:56,334 Speaker 4: a marginal Kamala Harris victory. A landslide wasn't on many 65 00:03:56,374 --> 00:04:01,134 Speaker 4: people's BINGO card, except maybe Donald Trump himself. Would you 66 00:04:01,174 --> 00:04:03,334 Speaker 4: call it a landslide? Is that what happened? And how 67 00:04:03,334 --> 00:04:04,054 Speaker 4: did it happen? 68 00:04:04,414 --> 00:04:07,614 Speaker 3: Yes, it's a landslide. Not only did Trump win the 69 00:04:07,614 --> 00:04:11,854 Speaker 3: White House, Republicans took the Senate from Democrats, and although 70 00:04:11,854 --> 00:04:14,814 Speaker 3: the House is still up for grabs, it looks like 71 00:04:14,974 --> 00:04:18,374 Speaker 3: that they're going to win that too. That's significant because 72 00:04:18,454 --> 00:04:21,574 Speaker 3: if they control all three arms of government, there are 73 00:04:21,614 --> 00:04:26,014 Speaker 3: no checks on Donald Trump in the executive branch. As 74 00:04:26,054 --> 00:04:30,134 Speaker 3: to how it happened, very simply, Harris didn't win over 75 00:04:30,334 --> 00:04:33,054 Speaker 3: any new groups of voters. This is what I can't 76 00:04:33,094 --> 00:04:36,814 Speaker 3: get over. Not only did she not win over any 77 00:04:36,814 --> 00:04:40,454 Speaker 3: new groups of voters, Trump won new blocks of voters, 78 00:04:40,774 --> 00:04:44,454 Speaker 3: so he won working class Latinos, he won working class 79 00:04:44,494 --> 00:04:49,014 Speaker 3: Black voters. Harris won women by plus three points on Biden. 80 00:04:49,134 --> 00:04:51,734 Speaker 3: That's not very many points. Given that we were being 81 00:04:51,774 --> 00:04:54,814 Speaker 3: told that reproductive rights and freedom were on the ballot. Here, 82 00:04:55,894 --> 00:04:58,934 Speaker 3: men switched over to Trump in bigger numbers than we've 83 00:04:58,974 --> 00:05:02,774 Speaker 3: ever seen men vote for Republicans before young people did 84 00:05:02,814 --> 00:05:07,414 Speaker 3: not show up. Old people did not support Harris in 85 00:05:07,454 --> 00:05:10,574 Speaker 3: the same numbers that they supported Biden in twenty twenty. 86 00:05:10,694 --> 00:05:13,094 Speaker 3: Very simply, if you don't win over any new groups 87 00:05:13,134 --> 00:05:14,534 Speaker 3: of voters, you can't win the election. 88 00:05:15,094 --> 00:05:17,734 Speaker 4: So do you think that it's true that it became 89 00:05:18,054 --> 00:05:21,814 Speaker 4: an election about gender? Did it very much split along 90 00:05:22,454 --> 00:05:23,774 Speaker 4: male female lines? 91 00:05:24,254 --> 00:05:27,974 Speaker 3: No? Because if you only see plus three on women 92 00:05:28,094 --> 00:05:31,614 Speaker 3: voting for Harris compared within twenty twenty, that's not an 93 00:05:31,614 --> 00:05:35,614 Speaker 3: overwhelming shift for women. Now. Women already vote Democratic much 94 00:05:35,614 --> 00:05:38,374 Speaker 3: more than men do. But I would have expected to 95 00:05:38,374 --> 00:05:41,774 Speaker 3: see a double digit increase, just like the double double 96 00:05:42,054 --> 00:05:46,174 Speaker 3: digit increase in Black men voting for Trump. To see 97 00:05:46,254 --> 00:05:50,014 Speaker 3: only plus three for women just indicates that women didn't 98 00:05:50,334 --> 00:05:53,254 Speaker 3: care as much as we thought that they did. So 99 00:05:53,694 --> 00:05:55,934 Speaker 3: As for whether it's an election on gender, I think 100 00:05:55,934 --> 00:05:58,494 Speaker 3: I'd have to say no. I'd have to say that 101 00:05:58,494 --> 00:06:01,974 Speaker 3: that very diverse coalition that Trump assembled seems to mean 102 00:06:02,094 --> 00:06:05,934 Speaker 3: that people were really laser focused on the economy and 103 00:06:05,974 --> 00:06:08,734 Speaker 3: on a sense that they can't afford their groceries and 104 00:06:08,774 --> 00:06:12,254 Speaker 3: that Joe bid and everyone around Joe Biden has to go. 105 00:06:12,614 --> 00:06:15,654 Speaker 4: So I want to ask about his misogyny and his 106 00:06:16,094 --> 00:06:20,814 Speaker 4: convictions for sexual assault and his other crimes that are 107 00:06:21,174 --> 00:06:23,734 Speaker 4: in court steal and that he's also been found guilty of. 108 00:06:24,334 --> 00:06:28,254 Speaker 4: Did everybody just ignore that, because it seems like they did. 109 00:06:28,734 --> 00:06:32,974 Speaker 3: Yes. And I had a really crystallizing conversation today with 110 00:06:33,094 --> 00:06:36,174 Speaker 3: a friend who did not vote for Donald Trump, but 111 00:06:36,334 --> 00:06:41,014 Speaker 3: who pointed out to me that Americans have never cared 112 00:06:41,054 --> 00:06:44,374 Speaker 3: about this idea of character in the oval office. That's 113 00:06:44,494 --> 00:06:47,494 Speaker 3: just never been important. And she pointed to Bill Clinton 114 00:06:47,614 --> 00:06:50,614 Speaker 3: as an example. Now, Bill Clinton, I'm not making a 115 00:06:50,654 --> 00:06:53,374 Speaker 3: false equivalence between Bill Clinton and a man who's been 116 00:06:53,414 --> 00:06:56,734 Speaker 3: found liable for sexual assault, which Bill Clinton certainly has not. 117 00:06:57,294 --> 00:07:00,014 Speaker 3: But Bill Clinton has a checkered history with women, I 118 00:07:00,054 --> 00:07:03,894 Speaker 3: think it's safe to say. And he won two terms 119 00:07:03,894 --> 00:07:07,454 Speaker 3: in office. And the reason is because the Democrats kept saying, 120 00:07:07,654 --> 00:07:11,054 Speaker 3: of Trump, look at his rally Remember that Harris kept saying, 121 00:07:11,254 --> 00:07:14,054 Speaker 3: look at his rallies, Watch his rallies. Tim Waltz would also, 122 00:07:14,174 --> 00:07:16,614 Speaker 3: this is fine, He's going to do more for us. 123 00:07:16,694 --> 00:07:20,534 Speaker 3: He's going to fix the economy for us. And they 124 00:07:20,574 --> 00:07:23,934 Speaker 3: had this fundamental belief that once Americans find out how 125 00:07:23,974 --> 00:07:26,654 Speaker 3: bad this man is, they won't vote for him, but 126 00:07:26,694 --> 00:07:28,254 Speaker 3: that was misguided. 127 00:07:28,654 --> 00:07:34,814 Speaker 4: So did they actually buy his bullshit about being a 128 00:07:34,814 --> 00:07:38,214 Speaker 4: great businessman despite the fact that he's been declared bankrupt 129 00:07:38,734 --> 00:07:43,894 Speaker 4: many times his businesses have he's essentially a fraud. But 130 00:07:43,974 --> 00:07:47,814 Speaker 4: did Americans believe that he was the master on the 131 00:07:47,854 --> 00:07:52,574 Speaker 4: Apprentice and that he was going to restore America to 132 00:07:52,734 --> 00:07:56,054 Speaker 4: financial greatness again and put more money in their wallets. 133 00:07:56,574 --> 00:08:01,294 Speaker 3: I think that voting is an emotional act, and I'm 134 00:08:01,374 --> 00:08:03,774 Speaker 3: feeling that a lot more in the wake of the 135 00:08:03,814 --> 00:08:07,734 Speaker 3: selection result. I think as journalists we want to search 136 00:08:07,854 --> 00:08:11,374 Speaker 3: for reasons and we want to get inside voters' heads. 137 00:08:12,134 --> 00:08:14,614 Speaker 3: But it turns out that in the privacy of the 138 00:08:14,694 --> 00:08:18,774 Speaker 3: ballot box, people must make decisions based on emotion. Because 139 00:08:18,814 --> 00:08:21,174 Speaker 3: you're right that the facts don't point to him being 140 00:08:21,174 --> 00:08:23,454 Speaker 3: a brilliant custodian of the economy. I mean, the stock 141 00:08:23,534 --> 00:08:25,454 Speaker 3: market rode high for the first few years he was 142 00:08:25,454 --> 00:08:29,014 Speaker 3: in office, and then it crashed when COVID came along, 143 00:08:29,574 --> 00:08:32,134 Speaker 3: and then Joe Biden had to spend his four years 144 00:08:32,134 --> 00:08:35,134 Speaker 3: in office getting it back on track. People were angry 145 00:08:35,174 --> 00:08:39,294 Speaker 3: at Joe Biden. They were angry at the post COVID 146 00:08:39,654 --> 00:08:44,054 Speaker 3: economic landscape, and they lashed out. That to me feels right. 147 00:08:44,134 --> 00:08:47,054 Speaker 3: Don't you think it feels like people lashed out rather 148 00:08:47,094 --> 00:08:51,294 Speaker 3: than sat down and read all the New York Times investigations. 149 00:08:51,694 --> 00:08:54,814 Speaker 4: I've been trying to understand whether people voted for something 150 00:08:55,054 --> 00:09:01,174 Speaker 4: or against something else, whether something about Kamela and the 151 00:09:01,214 --> 00:09:06,574 Speaker 4: Democrats and what they were offering people just went absolutely not. 152 00:09:07,414 --> 00:09:10,614 Speaker 4: And if so, what was that or was it just 153 00:09:11,294 --> 00:09:14,134 Speaker 4: that Donald Trump was more appealing? And why do you 154 00:09:14,134 --> 00:09:15,934 Speaker 4: think it was a vote against or a vote for. 155 00:09:16,534 --> 00:09:18,374 Speaker 3: I think it was a bit of both. And I 156 00:09:18,414 --> 00:09:22,814 Speaker 3: think remember when Harris took the nomination. I can't really 157 00:09:22,814 --> 00:09:26,454 Speaker 3: say won the nomination, but when Harris was declared the 158 00:09:26,494 --> 00:09:30,774 Speaker 3: presumpt of Democratic nominee, and we talked at them about 159 00:09:30,814 --> 00:09:34,574 Speaker 3: the fact that as a woman, as a woman of color, 160 00:09:34,614 --> 00:09:37,774 Speaker 3: a woman of color from San Francisco, which is the 161 00:09:37,774 --> 00:09:42,374 Speaker 3: most derided city in America in terms of this idea 162 00:09:42,494 --> 00:09:45,094 Speaker 3: that it's a liberal bubble and that it's out of touch, 163 00:09:45,694 --> 00:09:51,654 Speaker 3: she's this liberal San Francisco black woman who has a 164 00:09:51,774 --> 00:09:56,494 Speaker 3: history of locking up black men. That's the way that 165 00:09:56,534 --> 00:09:59,254 Speaker 3: the track record was presented. You have to wonder how 166 00:09:59,334 --> 00:10:01,934 Speaker 3: anyone thought that was ever going to work in retrospect, 167 00:10:01,974 --> 00:10:04,494 Speaker 3: I look back on it, and I think there was 168 00:10:04,534 --> 00:10:07,694 Speaker 3: a liberal bubble that developed that the party after it 169 00:10:07,734 --> 00:10:09,894 Speaker 3: took them so long to get rid of Joe, and 170 00:10:09,934 --> 00:10:13,774 Speaker 3: they were so exhausted they just said Kamala Harris has 171 00:10:13,814 --> 00:10:16,494 Speaker 3: to be the nominee. But they must have been deluded 172 00:10:16,534 --> 00:10:18,694 Speaker 3: to think this would ever work. Do I sound tired 173 00:10:18,774 --> 00:10:19,894 Speaker 3: and cynical? 174 00:10:20,574 --> 00:10:23,574 Speaker 4: Why would any woman vote for Donald Trump? Because many, many, 175 00:10:23,614 --> 00:10:24,494 Speaker 4: many of them did. 176 00:10:24,774 --> 00:10:26,934 Speaker 3: Do you remember that photo that I sent you a 177 00:10:26,974 --> 00:10:29,614 Speaker 3: couple of days ago. It was at one of the 178 00:10:29,614 --> 00:10:34,614 Speaker 3: final Trump rallies and it was two women, probably forties 179 00:10:34,654 --> 00:10:37,614 Speaker 3: fifties in the front row at the Trump rally. They 180 00:10:37,654 --> 00:10:40,134 Speaker 3: looked like they were at a Taylor's Swift concert, the 181 00:10:40,294 --> 00:10:44,374 Speaker 3: joy and the excitement in their faces and their hands 182 00:10:44,414 --> 00:10:47,494 Speaker 3: outstretched to him. One of them wearing a T shirt 183 00:10:47,494 --> 00:10:50,614 Speaker 3: that says make America Great Again, the other one wearing 184 00:10:50,654 --> 00:10:53,014 Speaker 3: a T shirt that says in the make America great 185 00:10:53,014 --> 00:10:58,934 Speaker 3: Again font mean tweets. Now, what's that about? Why does 186 00:10:58,974 --> 00:11:02,774 Speaker 3: a woman love the fact that Donald Trump sends mean tweets? 187 00:11:02,894 --> 00:11:05,014 Speaker 3: I don't know what the answer is. What do you 188 00:11:05,054 --> 00:11:06,094 Speaker 3: think the answer is? 189 00:11:06,574 --> 00:11:10,134 Speaker 4: What's always worried me? And disturbed me is that what 190 00:11:10,174 --> 00:11:13,054 Speaker 4: we thought was a flaw and that people were just 191 00:11:13,094 --> 00:11:15,654 Speaker 4: holding their nose and going, oh, he's cruel and he's 192 00:11:16,614 --> 00:11:19,894 Speaker 4: you know, unkind and horrible to people, particularly women, and 193 00:11:19,974 --> 00:11:23,414 Speaker 4: it's so disparaging. But people are holding their nose and 194 00:11:23,534 --> 00:11:27,334 Speaker 4: just voting for other reasons. I've now come to understand 195 00:11:27,454 --> 00:11:29,934 Speaker 4: since yesterday that it's not a flaw, it's a feature. 196 00:11:30,614 --> 00:11:34,374 Speaker 4: People are really attracted to that. And I wonder if 197 00:11:34,454 --> 00:11:39,054 Speaker 4: he is just the mouthpiece for people's anger with the world, 198 00:11:39,974 --> 00:11:43,614 Speaker 4: with the economy, with the state of their lives, with 199 00:11:43,734 --> 00:11:48,854 Speaker 4: feeling powerless, and he embodies that anger. 200 00:11:49,214 --> 00:11:51,254 Speaker 3: It's this idea of wanting to blow it all up 201 00:11:52,254 --> 00:11:55,854 Speaker 3: and feeling a strength and a security with aligning yourself 202 00:11:55,854 --> 00:11:56,814 Speaker 3: of the bully. 203 00:11:56,654 --> 00:11:58,934 Speaker 4: Will protect you, will protect women. 204 00:11:59,814 --> 00:12:03,014 Speaker 3: Is that it? That's what Megan Kelly said. That's what 205 00:12:03,054 --> 00:12:05,574 Speaker 3: she said to him at their final rally together. She 206 00:12:05,614 --> 00:12:07,734 Speaker 3: took his hands and she had tears in her eyes 207 00:12:07,774 --> 00:12:10,454 Speaker 3: and she said, thank you for protecting us. 208 00:12:10,934 --> 00:12:14,494 Speaker 4: Yeah, the whole tradwife movement that is this appeal of 209 00:12:15,294 --> 00:12:20,534 Speaker 4: it's hard having choices, it's hard earning money, having jobs 210 00:12:20,814 --> 00:12:24,454 Speaker 4: and having equality. Life was easier when we just had 211 00:12:24,494 --> 00:12:27,614 Speaker 4: big strong men to protect us. Is that what it is. 212 00:12:28,014 --> 00:12:30,974 Speaker 3: I'm actually so glad that you raised that. A friend 213 00:12:31,014 --> 00:12:33,174 Speaker 3: of mine, who was an editor at The New York Times, 214 00:12:33,294 --> 00:12:37,534 Speaker 3: leaving work yesterday after this like marathon over day, said 215 00:12:37,534 --> 00:12:40,334 Speaker 3: to me the exact same thing. She said, This is 216 00:12:40,454 --> 00:12:45,414 Speaker 3: why we're seeing this fascination with tradwives because we've decided, 217 00:12:45,734 --> 00:12:49,254 Speaker 3: we collectively women had decided it's all too much, it's 218 00:12:49,294 --> 00:12:53,974 Speaker 3: too hard. And that's why we're fascinated with the tradwives, 219 00:12:54,054 --> 00:12:57,334 Speaker 3: because they seem to live an easier life than us. 220 00:12:57,534 --> 00:13:01,094 Speaker 3: And that's why we're okay with gd vance talking about 221 00:13:01,094 --> 00:13:02,294 Speaker 3: the childless cat ladies. 222 00:13:02,894 --> 00:13:05,734 Speaker 4: I wanted to ask you about young people because they 223 00:13:05,734 --> 00:13:10,094 Speaker 4: were galvanized by Obama as a change candidate. I don't 224 00:13:10,094 --> 00:13:12,694 Speaker 4: know if they were galvanized by Joe Biden, but they 225 00:13:12,734 --> 00:13:17,054 Speaker 4: clearly weren't galvanized by Kamala Harris. Greta Tunberg, the young 226 00:13:17,054 --> 00:13:20,614 Speaker 4: climate activist who lives in Sweden, posted to Instagram the 227 00:13:20,694 --> 00:13:25,654 Speaker 4: day before the election sort of a manifesto about how 228 00:13:25,934 --> 00:13:29,134 Speaker 4: if you don't like either of the candidates because they're 229 00:13:29,174 --> 00:13:32,054 Speaker 4: not perfect, you don't have to vote at all. You 230 00:13:32,094 --> 00:13:34,894 Speaker 4: can actually just boycott the election. I know that a 231 00:13:34,894 --> 00:13:38,974 Speaker 4: lot of young people are disillusioned and upset about the 232 00:13:39,334 --> 00:13:42,534 Speaker 4: war in the Middle East and don't like that the 233 00:13:42,614 --> 00:13:47,334 Speaker 4: Biden administration has been a supporter of Israel, and there've 234 00:13:47,334 --> 00:13:51,534 Speaker 4: been a lot of student protests about Kamala Harris being 235 00:13:51,934 --> 00:13:55,894 Speaker 4: another symptom of that and another perpetrator of that support. 236 00:13:56,654 --> 00:13:58,214 Speaker 4: Do you think that had an impact? 237 00:13:58,454 --> 00:14:01,134 Speaker 3: So I have another anecdote. I'm sorry to keep bringing 238 00:14:01,134 --> 00:14:04,054 Speaker 3: the anecdotes, but you can imagine that my American text 239 00:14:04,054 --> 00:14:06,214 Speaker 3: message chains have blown up in the last twenty four 240 00:14:06,214 --> 00:14:09,774 Speaker 3: hours and I'm hearing a lot of interesting perspectives from them. 241 00:14:09,854 --> 00:14:12,134 Speaker 3: This is from a friend of mine who is a 242 00:14:12,174 --> 00:14:15,534 Speaker 3: professor at an Ivy League university, so one of the 243 00:14:15,574 --> 00:14:19,374 Speaker 3: top universities in the US, and she teaches first year students, 244 00:14:19,894 --> 00:14:23,214 Speaker 3: and she wrote to me and said, my students are 245 00:14:23,254 --> 00:14:27,134 Speaker 3: completely unfazed. Many of them didn't vote. This is just 246 00:14:27,174 --> 00:14:30,214 Speaker 3: what they think politics is. And when politics is gross 247 00:14:30,334 --> 00:14:32,934 Speaker 3: and both sides are equally bad to them, they just 248 00:14:33,054 --> 00:14:35,334 Speaker 3: tune out. They couldn't wait for it to be over 249 00:14:35,414 --> 00:14:38,414 Speaker 3: so they wouldn't have to hear about it anymore. Oh wow, 250 00:14:38,614 --> 00:14:39,374 Speaker 3: I was shocked. 251 00:14:39,454 --> 00:14:43,654 Speaker 4: I'm shocked too, because it's not like Trump's position. You know, 252 00:14:43,734 --> 00:14:47,254 Speaker 4: he's a far more fervent supporter of Israel than the Democrats, 253 00:14:47,814 --> 00:14:51,934 Speaker 4: and so they decided it sounds to just go, well, 254 00:14:51,934 --> 00:14:54,054 Speaker 4: I don't like anybody, so I'm not going to vote 255 00:14:54,054 --> 00:14:59,294 Speaker 4: at all. What struck me about Greta Tunberg's message was 256 00:14:59,854 --> 00:15:02,934 Speaker 4: this idea of moral purity and that being a symptom 257 00:15:02,974 --> 00:15:06,254 Speaker 4: of the left, and that if there's no perfect candidate, 258 00:15:06,774 --> 00:15:09,134 Speaker 4: we don't want to play, we will boycott, we will 259 00:15:09,134 --> 00:15:13,134 Speaker 4: sit this one out. Because now that Donald Trump's president, 260 00:15:13,654 --> 00:15:15,654 Speaker 4: what do you think he's going to do to the environment. 261 00:15:16,014 --> 00:15:18,494 Speaker 4: Not on his list of things he gives a shit 262 00:15:18,494 --> 00:15:20,494 Speaker 4: about because he can't make money out of it. What 263 00:15:20,574 --> 00:15:24,094 Speaker 4: he can make money out of is doing terrible things 264 00:15:24,294 --> 00:15:27,254 Speaker 4: to the environment and allowing other people to do terrible 265 00:15:27,254 --> 00:15:29,534 Speaker 4: things to the environment. You know, I've been reading some 266 00:15:29,614 --> 00:15:34,854 Speaker 4: commentary that says this idea of moral purity on the left, 267 00:15:35,214 --> 00:15:40,694 Speaker 4: with canceling people for using the wrong pronouns or emphasizing 268 00:15:40,894 --> 00:15:45,254 Speaker 4: things around identity politics and how these more niche issues 269 00:15:45,294 --> 00:15:49,534 Speaker 4: for these specific minority groups are the most important thing, 270 00:15:49,974 --> 00:15:52,374 Speaker 4: and that that's driven people to the right. Do you 271 00:15:52,374 --> 00:15:54,534 Speaker 4: think there's truth in that or are we all just 272 00:15:54,654 --> 00:15:57,054 Speaker 4: like casting around for explanations. 273 00:15:57,494 --> 00:16:00,094 Speaker 3: Yeah. I have two components to my answer to this, 274 00:16:00,134 --> 00:16:02,134 Speaker 3: and I want to remember to hit them both. The 275 00:16:02,214 --> 00:16:04,854 Speaker 3: first thing I'd say is, that's so fascinating the idea 276 00:16:04,934 --> 00:16:08,094 Speaker 3: of the left being caught up in these relatively niche 277 00:16:08,134 --> 00:16:12,654 Speaker 3: issues and in the mainstream not recognizing that, because there's 278 00:16:12,694 --> 00:16:15,854 Speaker 3: an argument equally that on the right why a lot 279 00:16:15,854 --> 00:16:19,414 Speaker 3: of people were drawn to Trump were the cultural reasons 280 00:16:19,454 --> 00:16:22,614 Speaker 3: that the Democrats weren't even really talking about. For instance, 281 00:16:22,774 --> 00:16:25,854 Speaker 3: he ran an ad in Swing States Trump did which 282 00:16:26,014 --> 00:16:30,614 Speaker 3: was about trans athletes in schools. Now, this is not 283 00:16:30,814 --> 00:16:33,654 Speaker 3: an issue that really the Biden administration took a particularly 284 00:16:33,694 --> 00:16:34,774 Speaker 3: strong stance. 285 00:16:34,494 --> 00:16:37,094 Speaker 4: On trans athletes in schools. 286 00:16:37,014 --> 00:16:43,494 Speaker 3: Whether or not trans girls can play on girls sports teams. 287 00:16:43,894 --> 00:16:46,734 Speaker 3: And he was saying that the Biden administration was going 288 00:16:46,774 --> 00:16:49,254 Speaker 3: to make it an uneven playing field because they were 289 00:16:49,254 --> 00:16:57,254 Speaker 3: going to let trans girl athletes compete alongside biological girls. Now, 290 00:16:57,294 --> 00:17:00,454 Speaker 3: this is not something I ever heard Carmila Harris even 291 00:17:00,574 --> 00:17:03,934 Speaker 3: talk about on the campaign trail. But I think that 292 00:17:04,014 --> 00:17:06,414 Speaker 3: you're onto something with this idea that on both the 293 00:17:06,494 --> 00:17:09,654 Speaker 3: left and the right, and we're talking here about the 294 00:17:09,694 --> 00:17:14,574 Speaker 3: more extreme factions of both sides, they're talking about issues 295 00:17:14,574 --> 00:17:17,814 Speaker 3: that we're not even awarer really on the mainstream radar, 296 00:17:18,294 --> 00:17:21,174 Speaker 3: and that those issues are serving to radicalize them. Now 297 00:17:21,214 --> 00:17:26,294 Speaker 3: on the right, they're radicalizing them into magaworld. On the left, 298 00:17:26,374 --> 00:17:29,254 Speaker 3: they're radicalizing them into not voting. And by the way, 299 00:17:29,774 --> 00:17:32,774 Speaker 3: related to this is a really interesting idea that I 300 00:17:32,814 --> 00:17:37,094 Speaker 3: heard advanced overnight, which is that if Trump was running 301 00:17:37,134 --> 00:17:39,894 Speaker 3: for president in any other country in the world, we 302 00:17:39,934 --> 00:17:44,134 Speaker 3: would call him far right and fascistic routinely. If he 303 00:17:44,174 --> 00:17:46,294 Speaker 3: was running for president in Hungary, we would call him that. 304 00:17:46,694 --> 00:17:49,014 Speaker 3: But because he's running for president in the US, we 305 00:17:49,094 --> 00:17:52,894 Speaker 3: all can't quite believe that's what he is. So I 306 00:17:52,934 --> 00:17:55,054 Speaker 3: never hear the terms of our right applied to him, 307 00:17:55,094 --> 00:17:57,854 Speaker 3: but it's absolutely accurate. Anyway, That's just an a side 308 00:17:57,854 --> 00:18:00,614 Speaker 3: on language, But I think it's a really interesting point 309 00:18:00,654 --> 00:18:02,814 Speaker 3: to make that there's these kind of niche issues on 310 00:18:02,854 --> 00:18:05,654 Speaker 3: both sides. The second point that I wanted to make 311 00:18:05,814 --> 00:18:09,614 Speaker 3: about young people and the purity politics is the the 312 00:18:09,654 --> 00:18:16,134 Speaker 3: most convincing rebuttal to that came from Alexander or Caasio Cortez, who, 313 00:18:16,374 --> 00:18:18,694 Speaker 3: as you know, I think is the most gifted communicator 314 00:18:18,734 --> 00:18:22,214 Speaker 3: in American politics, and she said in an Instagram live 315 00:18:23,054 --> 00:18:27,014 Speaker 3: you never get anywhere by seeding your power. What does 316 00:18:27,054 --> 00:18:29,814 Speaker 3: that mean? Meaning if you see the right to vote, 317 00:18:29,894 --> 00:18:33,334 Speaker 3: you were giving up power in the name of advancing 318 00:18:33,374 --> 00:18:35,574 Speaker 3: your own aims. You're not going to get anywhere if 319 00:18:35,614 --> 00:18:38,694 Speaker 3: you give up power. And that pragmentism seemed to be 320 00:18:38,774 --> 00:18:39,534 Speaker 3: wholly missing. 321 00:18:39,814 --> 00:18:42,414 Speaker 4: You can't advance your own aims by not being on 322 00:18:42,454 --> 00:18:45,694 Speaker 4: the field, you know, by saying I'm actually sitting this 323 00:18:45,734 --> 00:18:49,334 Speaker 4: one out because neither of the teams are perfect enough. 324 00:18:49,814 --> 00:18:52,534 Speaker 3: It makes no sense. The other factor I want to 325 00:18:52,574 --> 00:18:55,614 Speaker 3: bring up with young people, which my friend's text message 326 00:18:55,654 --> 00:18:58,494 Speaker 3: to me made me think about, is COVID and the 327 00:18:58,494 --> 00:19:01,934 Speaker 3: effects of COVID on this particular group of young people, 328 00:19:02,014 --> 00:19:04,454 Speaker 3: Because think about it, these students that my friend is 329 00:19:04,494 --> 00:19:09,054 Speaker 3: talking about started high school at the beginning of the 330 00:19:09,134 --> 00:19:12,414 Speaker 3: pandemic or near to it, and I can't imagine how 331 00:19:12,454 --> 00:19:14,614 Speaker 3: that shaped how they think about other people in the 332 00:19:14,654 --> 00:19:17,414 Speaker 3: world to have gone through. Remember, the COVID experience in 333 00:19:17,454 --> 00:19:19,494 Speaker 3: the US was its own particular thing. It was hard 334 00:19:19,534 --> 00:19:23,254 Speaker 3: on everyone everywhere, but in the US it really radicalized 335 00:19:23,294 --> 00:19:25,374 Speaker 3: people and it dur have people mad a lot of 336 00:19:25,374 --> 00:19:29,734 Speaker 3: the time. So I'm wondering whether the pandemic's long shadow 337 00:19:30,014 --> 00:19:32,694 Speaker 3: has shaped their worldview in a way that we can't 338 00:19:32,694 --> 00:19:34,454 Speaker 3: even fully assess. What do you think of that? 339 00:19:34,734 --> 00:19:38,054 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that the days of multiple terms for 340 00:19:38,094 --> 00:19:42,094 Speaker 4: any government are probably gone. Also, just because a four 341 00:19:42,134 --> 00:19:44,894 Speaker 4: year term or even a three year term feels like 342 00:19:44,934 --> 00:19:47,774 Speaker 4: a really long time when we're living our lives in 343 00:19:47,774 --> 00:19:51,934 Speaker 4: increments of text messages and you know, flicking through reels 344 00:19:51,934 --> 00:19:55,374 Speaker 4: and tiktoks. So I think that this idea of we're 345 00:19:55,374 --> 00:19:57,494 Speaker 4: going to be in it for the long haul just 346 00:19:57,534 --> 00:20:00,654 Speaker 4: doesn't apply in politics. And I think this idea of change, 347 00:20:00,734 --> 00:20:04,774 Speaker 4: change change, the idea that our changing. It's going to 348 00:20:04,774 --> 00:20:06,374 Speaker 4: be different, It's going to be different, It's going to 349 00:20:06,374 --> 00:20:09,334 Speaker 4: be different. What's interesting about this is that it was 350 00:20:09,334 --> 00:20:13,134 Speaker 4: so upside down because in some ways the change is 351 00:20:13,174 --> 00:20:17,454 Speaker 4: going backwards because it's going back to Trump, and Carmela 352 00:20:17,814 --> 00:20:21,334 Speaker 4: was an incumbent, but was also a change because it 353 00:20:21,374 --> 00:20:24,054 Speaker 4: was moving away from Joe Biden. So it was a 354 00:20:24,214 --> 00:20:27,734 Speaker 4: very confusing feeling. And I think whoever was going to 355 00:20:27,934 --> 00:20:31,694 Speaker 4: come across as the biggest change candidate was probably going 356 00:20:31,774 --> 00:20:33,534 Speaker 4: to win. And I think that's true in any election, 357 00:20:33,614 --> 00:20:36,574 Speaker 4: which is why I think an incumbent can't campaign as 358 00:20:36,614 --> 00:20:39,614 Speaker 4: a change candidate. She tried, and she felt like, one, 359 00:20:40,574 --> 00:20:42,774 Speaker 4: do you think that it would have been different if 360 00:20:42,814 --> 00:20:43,934 Speaker 4: Biden had stayed. 361 00:20:43,934 --> 00:20:45,814 Speaker 3: Yes, Because then I think it would have been two 362 00:20:45,894 --> 00:20:48,774 Speaker 3: old white men competing. So you would have taken the 363 00:20:48,814 --> 00:20:54,534 Speaker 3: whole racism, sexism, misogyny dynamic out of the race. Which 364 00:20:54,574 --> 00:20:55,974 Speaker 3: is not to say that by one of one, but 365 00:20:56,014 --> 00:20:58,774 Speaker 3: that's where my head's out on that question. The change 366 00:20:58,774 --> 00:21:02,854 Speaker 3: candidate thing. One decision the campaign made is haunting me, 367 00:21:03,334 --> 00:21:06,054 Speaker 3: and that was the decision to bring in the Cheney's, 368 00:21:06,134 --> 00:21:08,534 Speaker 3: to bring in Lynn Cheney, the daughter of Dick Cheney, 369 00:21:08,934 --> 00:21:12,654 Speaker 3: who was very prominent in the George W. Bush years. 370 00:21:12,774 --> 00:21:14,894 Speaker 3: He worked for George W. Bush and was sort of 371 00:21:14,894 --> 00:21:18,014 Speaker 3: the architect of the Iraq War. You're just making me 372 00:21:18,094 --> 00:21:22,814 Speaker 3: realize now that bringing up on stage people who remind 373 00:21:22,894 --> 00:21:26,814 Speaker 3: Americans of this real low point, like an objectively low 374 00:21:26,934 --> 00:21:29,694 Speaker 3: point for the country, which was when it was mired 375 00:21:29,814 --> 00:21:31,694 Speaker 3: in war in Iraq and it was post nine to 376 00:21:31,734 --> 00:21:36,334 Speaker 3: eleven and the economy was stumbling. That just seems in 377 00:21:36,414 --> 00:21:39,134 Speaker 3: retrospect like a really crazy idea. 378 00:21:39,294 --> 00:21:42,334 Speaker 4: Well, they half understood because they Hillary was nowhere to 379 00:21:42,374 --> 00:21:42,734 Speaker 4: be seen. 380 00:21:43,014 --> 00:21:43,934 Speaker 3: That's true. 381 00:21:43,974 --> 00:21:47,534 Speaker 4: She was, you know, crive act and kept way out 382 00:21:47,534 --> 00:21:50,694 Speaker 4: of sight. The celebrities weren't. I know a lot of 383 00:21:50,694 --> 00:21:54,094 Speaker 4: people who were really fearful every time Kamala got a 384 00:21:54,134 --> 00:21:57,574 Speaker 4: new celebrity endorsement or wheeled out Oprah or you know, 385 00:21:57,894 --> 00:22:01,174 Speaker 4: had Beyonce at a rally, or I think even Katie 386 00:22:01,214 --> 00:22:03,574 Speaker 4: Perry at the end, because that didn't work for Hillary. 387 00:22:03,774 --> 00:22:07,934 Speaker 4: That sense of the elites celebrities, it just doesn't work 388 00:22:07,974 --> 00:22:10,854 Speaker 4: when you've got Donald Trump driving a garbage truck and 389 00:22:11,694 --> 00:22:17,614 Speaker 4: pretending to work in McDonald's and cosplaying being working class again. 390 00:22:17,654 --> 00:22:20,534 Speaker 4: It just felt like upside down world where he's got 391 00:22:20,574 --> 00:22:23,214 Speaker 4: a gold toilet and his actual friends are billionaires who 392 00:22:23,214 --> 00:22:24,374 Speaker 4: he does favors for. 393 00:22:24,694 --> 00:22:28,814 Speaker 3: Katy Perry really gave me twenty sixteen. He bgbs when 394 00:22:28,814 --> 00:22:32,814 Speaker 3: she appeared on stage that last night in Philadelphia, the 395 00:22:32,854 --> 00:22:35,614 Speaker 3: same place where Hillary had her rally the last night 396 00:22:35,654 --> 00:22:38,814 Speaker 3: before the election. With Katy Perry, it's like Katy Perry 397 00:22:38,854 --> 00:22:42,174 Speaker 3: herself feels like a portal to twenty thirteen. 398 00:22:42,734 --> 00:22:45,294 Speaker 4: Yeah, I was listening the other day that Katy Perry 399 00:22:45,374 --> 00:22:48,334 Speaker 4: is like it was her fortieth birthday a couple of 400 00:22:48,334 --> 00:22:51,774 Speaker 4: weeks ago, when the Washington Post declared that it wouldn't 401 00:22:51,774 --> 00:22:54,934 Speaker 4: be endorsing a candidate, and everybody came for Jeff Bezos. 402 00:22:54,934 --> 00:22:57,694 Speaker 4: And she was with Jeff Bezos at her fortieth birthday 403 00:22:58,374 --> 00:23:01,214 Speaker 4: on a train on the Rony Express with a whole 404 00:23:01,214 --> 00:23:04,894 Speaker 4: lot of celebrities. So yeah, I know that she offered 405 00:23:04,934 --> 00:23:08,734 Speaker 4: early in the campaign her song, her terrible song, Woman's World, 406 00:23:08,894 --> 00:23:14,454 Speaker 4: which felt so retrograde like fight Song back in twenty sixteen, 407 00:23:15,214 --> 00:23:18,414 Speaker 4: and the Harris campaign said no and instead went with 408 00:23:18,854 --> 00:23:22,614 Speaker 4: Freedom by Beyonce. But at the end of the day, 409 00:23:22,814 --> 00:23:26,734 Speaker 4: all of those rules about what works, what is an 410 00:23:26,734 --> 00:23:30,294 Speaker 4: acceptable way for a presidential campaign and candidate to behave, 411 00:23:31,534 --> 00:23:33,654 Speaker 4: they're all thrown out the window. Right He's just burnt 412 00:23:33,694 --> 00:23:34,854 Speaker 4: down all of it. 413 00:23:35,134 --> 00:23:37,574 Speaker 3: He has and can I I'm not quite ready to 414 00:23:37,614 --> 00:23:41,254 Speaker 3: talk about what Trump will do. I want to say 415 00:23:41,294 --> 00:23:45,814 Speaker 3: one thing about feelings. I've got this gut. White didn't 416 00:23:45,814 --> 00:23:48,294 Speaker 3: work for Harris. I dug around her YouTube channel the 417 00:23:48,334 --> 00:23:51,334 Speaker 3: other day. It was a couple of days before the election, 418 00:23:51,614 --> 00:23:54,494 Speaker 3: and I wanted to feel something. So I went to 419 00:23:54,534 --> 00:23:56,854 Speaker 3: her YouTube channel and I was clicking on some of 420 00:23:56,854 --> 00:24:00,294 Speaker 3: the videos. I wanted to feel inspired, part of something 421 00:24:00,334 --> 00:24:02,574 Speaker 3: that was bigger than myself in the way that all 422 00:24:02,614 --> 00:24:06,014 Speaker 3: great political movements need to make people feel. And there 423 00:24:06,054 --> 00:24:08,454 Speaker 3: was nothing on there. Now. They had ninety days, they 424 00:24:08,494 --> 00:24:10,894 Speaker 3: did not have a lot of time. But why didn't 425 00:24:10,894 --> 00:24:14,094 Speaker 3: I ever feel anything when I heard her speak or 426 00:24:14,094 --> 00:24:17,374 Speaker 3: when I watched her campaign videos. I'm a sucker for those. 427 00:24:17,454 --> 00:24:20,574 Speaker 3: I love a good political ad with people drinking coffee 428 00:24:20,614 --> 00:24:23,294 Speaker 3: and going to work and then soaring music and then 429 00:24:23,414 --> 00:24:25,894 Speaker 3: we are bigger than any one of us. I love 430 00:24:25,974 --> 00:24:29,134 Speaker 3: those moments. I didn't get any of those moments. Instead, 431 00:24:29,174 --> 00:24:32,334 Speaker 3: I got Katie Perry, fresh off the train with Jeff 432 00:24:32,374 --> 00:24:37,934 Speaker 3: Bezos regaling us with an not particularly in tune woman's world. 433 00:24:38,334 --> 00:24:40,534 Speaker 4: Do you know when I did feel something, and when 434 00:24:40,574 --> 00:24:44,134 Speaker 4: I think it was the height of it is when 435 00:24:44,814 --> 00:24:49,134 Speaker 4: she was declared the nominee, and around the time of 436 00:24:49,174 --> 00:24:53,534 Speaker 4: the DNC, when it was Tim Walls who was the 437 00:24:53,614 --> 00:24:58,494 Speaker 4: coach of America, when it was kamla is Brat, when 438 00:24:58,774 --> 00:25:01,134 Speaker 4: it really did feel like that, it felt like a 439 00:25:01,134 --> 00:25:04,294 Speaker 4: step change. It was here's this new vision of the 440 00:25:04,294 --> 00:25:09,294 Speaker 4: future versus this old cranky uncle who's ranting on Facebook. 441 00:25:10,214 --> 00:25:13,734 Speaker 4: But it didn't last. It didn't last after the convention 442 00:25:14,094 --> 00:25:16,734 Speaker 4: and Trump got that after his assassination attempt. I felt 443 00:25:16,734 --> 00:25:19,454 Speaker 4: that for Trump, not personally, but I felt the culture 444 00:25:20,294 --> 00:25:23,214 Speaker 4: go that way. And then I felt the culture go 445 00:25:23,334 --> 00:25:27,414 Speaker 4: that way for Kamela. But then I agree with you completely. 446 00:25:27,454 --> 00:25:30,374 Speaker 4: The last few weeks, I just I never felt it again. 447 00:25:30,734 --> 00:25:33,654 Speaker 4: It dissipated, and then maybe a little bit around the 448 00:25:33,694 --> 00:25:36,814 Speaker 4: time of the debate, but then nothing. I just I 449 00:25:36,854 --> 00:25:38,254 Speaker 4: felt like there was no cut through. 450 00:25:38,294 --> 00:25:42,854 Speaker 5: There, there was no vibes, no and something you said 451 00:25:42,854 --> 00:25:45,654 Speaker 5: there about how you felt something around Bratt made me 452 00:25:45,854 --> 00:25:49,334 Speaker 5: remember that I felt something, you know, when I felt 453 00:25:49,374 --> 00:25:50,054 Speaker 5: a little teary. 454 00:25:50,294 --> 00:25:53,054 Speaker 4: It was fun. It felt joyful. For the first time 455 00:25:53,254 --> 00:25:56,374 Speaker 4: US politics was like, oh my god, instead of these 456 00:25:56,694 --> 00:26:01,454 Speaker 4: embarrassing old men fighting and Biden and Shuffler. I mean 457 00:26:01,854 --> 00:26:03,654 Speaker 4: it suddenly it was like, oh my gosh, it could 458 00:26:03,654 --> 00:26:04,894 Speaker 4: be actually cool and fun. 459 00:26:05,054 --> 00:26:08,414 Speaker 3: Here's when I felt something. It was actually a few 460 00:26:08,494 --> 00:26:12,094 Speaker 3: days before the end of the campaign, the SNL skip 461 00:26:12,374 --> 00:26:16,054 Speaker 3: take my Pamela. 462 00:26:16,134 --> 00:26:20,054 Speaker 2: The American people want to start the chaos and end 463 00:26:20,134 --> 00:26:25,974 Speaker 2: the DRAMAA with a cool new step. Mamala pick backing 464 00:26:26,054 --> 00:26:28,294 Speaker 2: our pajamaa's and watch a rum. 465 00:26:28,414 --> 00:26:31,654 Speaker 3: Pamela. Yeah, keep calm and carry on, La. I felt 466 00:26:31,654 --> 00:26:34,214 Speaker 3: something very different to what I think you need to 467 00:26:34,334 --> 00:26:38,094 Speaker 3: feel on the verge of winning a presidential election, which 468 00:26:38,134 --> 00:26:44,134 Speaker 3: is it was a small, intimate, beautiful moment between two 469 00:26:44,894 --> 00:26:48,614 Speaker 3: black women, literally sitting at a vanity like it's the 470 00:26:48,654 --> 00:26:52,974 Speaker 3: smallest moment. It's a private moment actually, and the skip 471 00:26:53,174 --> 00:26:57,174 Speaker 3: was Kamela talking to herself. And I'm actually getting chills 472 00:26:57,174 --> 00:26:59,814 Speaker 3: thinking about it, because i feel like that's not what 473 00:26:59,894 --> 00:27:02,934 Speaker 3: you want a giant political campaign to climax with. I 474 00:27:02,934 --> 00:27:05,294 Speaker 3: thought it was a beautiful moment. It made me tear 475 00:27:05,414 --> 00:27:08,654 Speaker 3: up the respect and admiration that you could feel between 476 00:27:08,694 --> 00:27:13,054 Speaker 3: these two women, genuine feeling and emotion between two women 477 00:27:13,294 --> 00:27:16,254 Speaker 3: who are at the top of their game, really respecting 478 00:27:16,294 --> 00:27:19,174 Speaker 3: each other and having this moment. But that's not enough 479 00:27:19,214 --> 00:27:22,294 Speaker 3: to win an election. That's not going to win it. 480 00:27:22,414 --> 00:27:25,094 Speaker 4: Just to wrap up, can we think of anything positive 481 00:27:25,094 --> 00:27:27,174 Speaker 4: to say? I know that's what we said yesterday, but 482 00:27:27,494 --> 00:27:29,694 Speaker 4: you know, in the cold light of day, the day 483 00:27:29,734 --> 00:27:34,934 Speaker 4: after the markets are up cryptosauring there are a lot 484 00:27:35,014 --> 00:27:37,654 Speaker 4: of signs that the business world is very, very happy 485 00:27:37,694 --> 00:27:40,734 Speaker 4: with the results. Are there any bright spots? 486 00:27:40,974 --> 00:27:42,814 Speaker 3: It's not a bright spot, But I'm going to tell 487 00:27:42,814 --> 00:27:46,854 Speaker 3: you what another friend texted me because I found it 488 00:27:46,974 --> 00:27:50,254 Speaker 3: not a bright spot but comforting. And she wrote to 489 00:27:50,294 --> 00:27:53,734 Speaker 3: me that she'd been talking to her therapist about what 490 00:27:53,854 --> 00:27:56,174 Speaker 3: to do and how to think about this, and her 491 00:27:56,214 --> 00:28:00,294 Speaker 3: therapist said that you need to accept what is happening. 492 00:28:00,574 --> 00:28:03,734 Speaker 3: That's not enough. And so the thought that her therapist 493 00:28:03,814 --> 00:28:07,294 Speaker 3: came up with is this is happening, and I still 494 00:28:07,334 --> 00:28:10,774 Speaker 3: need to keep doing the right thing. Appreciated the acceptance 495 00:28:10,814 --> 00:28:13,854 Speaker 3: of reality I'm not into, unlike in twenty sixteen, where 496 00:28:13,894 --> 00:28:17,254 Speaker 3: I was seeking out opium, like this idea of like 497 00:28:17,334 --> 00:28:20,294 Speaker 3: we can still fight, we can win, We've got to 498 00:28:20,534 --> 00:28:24,134 Speaker 3: resist pussy hats. No, none of that. It is what 499 00:28:24,174 --> 00:28:24,494 Speaker 3: it is. 500 00:28:24,614 --> 00:28:26,374 Speaker 4: Yeah, doesn't feel like that, does it. 501 00:28:26,494 --> 00:28:30,614 Speaker 3: No? He controls it all. There's no silver lining. But 502 00:28:30,934 --> 00:28:32,694 Speaker 3: what are we going to do. We can't just roll 503 00:28:32,734 --> 00:28:35,374 Speaker 3: over like, We've got to keep doing what we think 504 00:28:35,494 --> 00:28:39,334 Speaker 3: is right and in our small ways and in ways 505 00:28:39,334 --> 00:28:42,134 Speaker 3: that we can. And I found that kind of soothing. 506 00:28:42,494 --> 00:28:45,094 Speaker 4: Thank you, I love you. If we can't have optimism, 507 00:28:45,214 --> 00:28:47,734 Speaker 4: we can at least be a little bit soothed. Lots 508 00:28:47,734 --> 00:28:51,414 Speaker 4: of love now before I go. Yesterday, we watch the 509 00:28:51,414 --> 00:28:54,014 Speaker 4: world change in a way that has left many women 510 00:28:54,094 --> 00:28:57,614 Speaker 4: feeling shocked and confused. Many of us are fearful of 511 00:28:57,614 --> 00:29:01,414 Speaker 4: what's to come because across the ocean, a new president 512 00:29:01,494 --> 00:29:04,454 Speaker 4: was elected. But the waves of this decision have reached 513 00:29:04,534 --> 00:29:07,654 Speaker 4: us right here in Australia. As you just heard, when 514 00:29:07,694 --> 00:29:10,534 Speaker 4: America takes a step, the world feels its impact, and 515 00:29:10,574 --> 00:29:13,654 Speaker 4: for many of us, especially women, it feels like an 516 00:29:13,694 --> 00:29:18,214 Speaker 4: unsettling backwards step, and at an uncertain time. More than ever, 517 00:29:18,534 --> 00:29:22,414 Speaker 4: we need to ensure that women's experiences and perspectives don't 518 00:29:22,454 --> 00:29:25,654 Speaker 4: just fade into the background, and today the role of 519 00:29:25,694 --> 00:29:29,014 Speaker 4: independent media has never been more vital. Now's the time 520 00:29:29,054 --> 00:29:31,894 Speaker 4: to ensure that our stories are told, our voices are 521 00:29:31,934 --> 00:29:35,254 Speaker 4: not just heard, but amplified, and we need to make 522 00:29:35,294 --> 00:29:39,134 Speaker 4: sure our issues don't disappear from the conversation. Muma Mia. 523 00:29:39,294 --> 00:29:41,774 Speaker 4: This is our core purpose, it's actually our only purpose, 524 00:29:42,174 --> 00:29:44,374 Speaker 4: to make the world a better place for women and girls. 525 00:29:45,014 --> 00:29:49,054 Speaker 4: Our team of female writers, podcasters and content creators are 526 00:29:49,054 --> 00:29:51,814 Speaker 4: committed to covering the stories that matter to women, to 527 00:29:51,894 --> 00:29:54,854 Speaker 4: standing with you and to helping you make sense of 528 00:29:54,934 --> 00:29:58,534 Speaker 4: this world that we're navigating together. We're rolling up our 529 00:29:58,614 --> 00:30:02,374 Speaker 4: sleeves today and every day to ensure that our coverage 530 00:30:02,414 --> 00:30:05,774 Speaker 4: is sharper. Our support for women's voices is stronger, and 531 00:30:05,814 --> 00:30:09,454 Speaker 4: our pledge to you is unwavering. So if you believe 532 00:30:09,534 --> 00:30:12,614 Speaker 4: as we do in the power of independent women's media, 533 00:30:12,734 --> 00:30:15,254 Speaker 4: there is something that you can do to help. For 534 00:30:15,334 --> 00:30:17,454 Speaker 4: less than two dollars a week, you can support our 535 00:30:17,454 --> 00:30:20,094 Speaker 4: mission to keep women's voices at the heart of the 536 00:30:20,134 --> 00:30:24,894 Speaker 4: conversation by subscribing to Mama Mea. Every subscription strengthens our 537 00:30:24,934 --> 00:30:27,814 Speaker 4: ability to deliver the content you rely on, like what 538 00:30:27,854 --> 00:30:31,814 Speaker 4: you've just heard, and helps to raise women's voices. Let's 539 00:30:31,854 --> 00:30:35,294 Speaker 4: did together, Let's keep going because now more than ever, 540 00:30:35,894 --> 00:30:38,694 Speaker 4: our voices matter. There's a link in the show notes 541 00:30:38,974 --> 00:30:41,734 Speaker 4: where you can subscribe to Muma Maya for less than 542 00:30:41,734 --> 00:30:45,174 Speaker 4: two dollars a week. That's less than a coffee. We 543 00:30:45,214 --> 00:30:49,494 Speaker 4: think women's voices are worth at least that much. Lots 544 00:30:49,494 --> 00:30:51,854 Speaker 4: of love, and we'll be back in your ears tomorrow. 545 00:30:57,294 --> 00:31:00,014 Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed this extra episode on the US election. 546 00:31:00,254 --> 00:31:02,254 Speaker 1: There'll be a link to follow Mamma Mea out loud 547 00:31:02,374 --> 00:31:04,614 Speaker 1: in the show notes, and while you're there, make sure 548 00:31:04,614 --> 00:31:06,574 Speaker 1: you're following the quickie too, so you can stay up 549 00:31:06,654 --> 00:31:08,774 Speaker 1: to date with what's happening in the news cycle every 550 00:31:08,814 --> 00:31:11,414 Speaker 1: single day. I'll catch you again tomorrow morning at six 551 00:31:11,454 --> 00:31:11,774 Speaker 1: a m.