Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by PayPal Small Business
Speaker 1: boot Camp series.
Speaker 2: Sometimes when you're busier, you actually don't get in the
Speaker 2: way of yourself quite so much, and you can achieve
Speaker 2: way more if you sideline the self doubt and just
Speaker 2: focus on getting shit done. You have to kind of
Speaker 2: always be in touch with your purpose and your core
Speaker 2: in order to still get the joy out of it.
Speaker 2: If you're not going to sell yourself, then who the
Speaker 2: hell is? So it's your responsibility to do that.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Sees the Yay Podcast. Busy and happy
Speaker 1: are not the same thing. We too rarely question what
Speaker 1: makes the heart seeing. We work, then we rest, but
Speaker 1: rarely we play and often don't realize there's more than
Speaker 1: one way. So this is a platform to hear and
Speaker 1: explore the stories.
Speaker 2: Of those who found lives. They adore, the good.
Speaker 1: Bad and ugly, the best and worst.
Speaker 2: Gay will bear all the facets.
Speaker 1: Of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful
Speaker 1: of Sarah, a lawyer turned fun trap and who swapped
Speaker 1: the suits and heels to co found matcha Maiden and
Speaker 1: matcha Milk Bar. CZA is a series of conversations on
Speaker 1: finding a life you love and exploring the self doubt, challenge,
Speaker 1: joy and fulfillment along the way. The fact that this
Speaker 1: chat came in at an hour and a half and
Speaker 1: we'd already been chatting for more than half an hour
Speaker 1: before that confirms just how much I enjoy Grace Brennan's
Speaker 1: company and what a great conversationalist she is. It's not
Speaker 1: just her fascinating and unique story either, although I did
Speaker 1: love laboring over all the seemingly unlikely chapters that led
Speaker 1: to the one I met her in, but just her
Speaker 1: enthusiasm for asking questions as much as answering them and
Speaker 1: learning everything she can about the world around her. I
Speaker 1: can't entirely recall which parts were on air or off air,
Speaker 1: but I know we veered well beyond the scope of
Speaker 1: a normal episode to just share opinions and curiosity about
Speaker 1: aspects of the world. She's one of those people I've
Speaker 1: only chatted to maybe a handful of times now after
Speaker 1: our PayPal boot camp session a few weeks ago, but
Speaker 1: who I would love to spend more time with. You
Speaker 1: may know Grace as the woman behind Buy from the Bush,
Speaker 1: the movement and now marketplace encouraging consumers in city areas
Speaker 1: to do some of their shopping in the bush to
Speaker 1: help support small rural businesses. Just six weeks after launching
Speaker 1: the movement as a hashtag, spurred by the devastating effects
Speaker 1: of drought on entire communities in the outback, Grace generated
Speaker 1: a six hundred and sixty percent increase for rural business
Speaker 1: owners and just four months later that became five million
Speaker 1: dollars in revenue. Australia Post even noted a forty percent
Speaker 1: increase in parcel postage in regional areas where they were
Speaker 1: selling out of parcels to send, and the business has
Speaker 1: continued to explode, now becoming a full buy from the
Speaker 1: Bush marketplace and booming community supporting rural business owners. And
Speaker 1: just recently Grace announced a very exciting new element to
Speaker 1: the business, a pitching initiative for those outback businesses in
Speaker 1: partnership with PayPal called Big Break, where rural business owners
Speaker 1: can pitch to win thirty thousand dollars and more in
Speaker 1: prizes towards their businesses. I know she is an absolute
Speaker 1: inspiration and incredible human being championing our outback businesses where
Speaker 1: they needed most. What I loved as always was not
Speaker 1: only hearing how Grace catapulted into her yay, but how
Speaker 1: unexpected that was and how long unwinding her journey was
Speaker 1: to get there. You might not know that Grace isn't
Speaker 1: actually from the Bush originally and led a very internationally
Speaker 1: focused life growing up in Sydney, living in London, and
Speaker 1: studying international studies in Chile. She only made the move
Speaker 1: to the Bush seven hours out of Sydney, joining her husband,
Speaker 1: a farmer who she'd met at fourteen years old at
Speaker 1: playing Trick or Treat and with whom she now shares
Speaker 1: four beautiful kids. That's two episodes recently with a heartthrobed farmer.
Speaker 1: Take notes, ladies, Grace has so much to share on
Speaker 1: shifting priorities and your identity, compromise and partnership, stumbling upon
Speaker 1: unexpected purpose in life and grabbing that purpose with everything
Speaker 1: you've got. What an amazing hero for rural Australia who
Speaker 1: I know will steal your heart like she did mine.
Speaker 1: Grace Brennan, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.
Speaker 1: We have been having such a great time that we
Speaker 1: have been chatting for about twenty five minutes before we
Speaker 1: started recording, it'd be wonderful.
Speaker 2: I've so enjoyed it, but I'm really sorry to have
Speaker 2: delayed you by twenty five minutes. Let's get this show
Speaker 2: on the road.
Speaker 1: It was an absolute joy, But I cannot wait to
Speaker 1: get this show on the road because you have such
Speaker 1: a wonderful story and also some very exciting news to share.
Speaker 1: But as you will know from your deep dive into
Speaker 1: the show over the past couple of weeks, ikick off
Speaker 1: every episode by asking everyone what the most down tour
Speaker 1: thing is about them, which I think, to the guest
Speaker 1: sounds like such a weird question and often such a
Speaker 1: straightforward and obvious answer. But for people who have only
Speaker 1: heard of you through you know, your twenty twenty Australia
Speaker 1: Day Address, or through the Australian the Year awards, or
Speaker 1: through the accolades and amazing figures and impact that you've had,
Speaker 1: it can be really easy to get a really glossy
Speaker 1: perception on the outside. But I loved in that twenty
Speaker 1: twenty Australia Day address that you mentioned. You know, when
Speaker 1: you read other people's bios, it all seems so flushy
Speaker 1: and wonderful, but you would write yours down as Grace
Speaker 1: Brennan still finding her feet. I absolutely love that. What
Speaker 1: would you say is something really relatable?
Speaker 2: I still feel like that. I just feel like my
Speaker 2: whole life is you know, I'm suffering the same universal
Speaker 2: mess that everybody else is. I've got I just had
Speaker 2: an antenna guy arrive at my house and have to
Speaker 2: step over like toast on the floor and milk them,
Speaker 2: like as I showed him through to the room.
Speaker 3: But do you know, I was down to earth. I
Speaker 3: don't know whether this is.
Speaker 2: Down to earth, but I am that person at a
Speaker 2: party that like stalks the waiter with food, like I
Speaker 2: like think from the moment I get there, I think, Okay,
Speaker 2: where is food going to be? And how can I
Speaker 2: position myself fortuously?
Speaker 1: So if I didn't already think that we were going
Speaker 1: to be best friends at every event that we ever
Speaker 1: went to together, I would be right there with you,
Speaker 1: Like I will stand near the toilets because that's near
Speaker 1: the kitchen, even though I'm like a gross.
Speaker 2: And like maybe get a little bit cranky if I'm
Speaker 2: not getting the temporal ponn like just come at me.
Speaker 1: But then when they do come past, I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: in case you don't come back again. I should probably
Speaker 1: get eight if anyone go. So I've got the servian
Speaker 1: and a pile.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Always and like I know, like I
Speaker 2: worked in a pub for many years at Uni, and
Speaker 2: I just know how the waiters must feel about like
Speaker 2: walking back into the kitchen going avoid the pest, avoid
Speaker 2: that weapon in the corner. But it's like a compulsion.
Speaker 2: I can't not think about.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love that so much, and that
Speaker 1: is so relatable, like so many of us. Is that
Speaker 1: down to earth or just hungry? I think it's both.
Speaker 1: I think it's why it's down to earth is because
Speaker 1: it happens at events that are usually like if there's
Speaker 1: can pays in tempurire prawns, it's a fancy event. So
Speaker 1: you're usually dressed really nicely and you've got makeup on,
Speaker 1: and you might have even been the speaker, and so
Speaker 1: everyone's looking at you as like this fancy person, but
Speaker 1: then you're just a vulture on the poor waitress lady.
Speaker 1: And I also like, if the tempura prawns needs sauce,
Speaker 1: and I'm getting eight for later, I need them all
Speaker 1: to have sauce, so I'll stand there and dip each
Speaker 1: one in and be like, just hold on, I.
Speaker 2: Just multiple dips, multiple dip multiple Yeah, do you do
Speaker 2: you have to top and tail or? Are you okay
Speaker 2: with a double dip? I know it's not Seinfeld, but
Speaker 2: your thoughts.
Speaker 1: I mean, in precurrent times, I'm a big double dipper.
Speaker 3: Oh shit lately.
Speaker 1: I mean, I haven't had a tasting plate in so long.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't know, but I'd have to probably reevaluate my
Speaker 1: openness to a double dip in this post.
Speaker 2: You're so right.
Speaker 1: Yes, we're pivoting in all areas of life here, Grace.
Speaker 2: Sorry, so.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I actually just can't wait to go
Speaker 1: to a party together now so we can just sit
Speaker 1: in the corner and steal all the food. All right,
Speaker 1: You're way to eight now. This is the chapter that
Speaker 1: I love so much, because so many people walk into
Speaker 1: your life, particularly in your case where your idea has
Speaker 1: come not as your first career or not straight after school,
Speaker 1: and it's propelled you onto the scene. So people just
Speaker 1: forget that you had a whole life of building up
Speaker 1: to this, most of which involved you having no clue
Speaker 1: where you'd end up. So I like going all the
Speaker 1: way back to I mean, even the fact that people
Speaker 1: know you as Grace Brennan. That's your married name. You
Speaker 1: had a whole identity before that, So take us back
Speaker 1: to young Grace Clark, what you were like as a kid.
Speaker 1: I know you had a childhood of backyard cricket. You
Speaker 1: met your husband at fourteen when he threw an egg
Speaker 1: at you, Like it's just a beautiful story. But you
Speaker 1: aren't originally from the bush, which I also found really interesting.
Speaker 1: So talk us through your first jobs, what you thought
Speaker 1: you wanted to be, and just what you were like
Speaker 1: as a child.
Speaker 2: Isn't that so nice when somebody brings up the maiden name.
Speaker 2: I really loved that you know my maiden name and
Speaker 2: that I get to talk about it, because it is
Speaker 2: this kind of past identity that you can never really
Speaker 2: bring up again without making a point of it. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, can I just also acknowledge the way to
Speaker 2: yay also suggests that I'm at the ya and I
Speaker 2: just fundamentally like me to challenge that. So we'll talk
Speaker 2: about that later. But I yeah, I grew up in Sydney.
Speaker 2: I was one of five kids and had this lovely
Speaker 2: experience of this beautiful home life with lots of influences
Speaker 2: from older siblings. I was quite like a fair bit
Speaker 2: younger than my older siblings, so was shaped by them
Speaker 2: just as much as my parents. And yeah, met Jack.
Speaker 2: I lived across the road from a boarding school where
Speaker 2: he was at school, and I used to catch the
Speaker 2: ferry home from school and I'd walk through and he'd
Speaker 2: be like playing golf, pretending to play golf on the lawn,
Speaker 2: and we got We used to get chatting. But I mean,
Speaker 2: I tell the story that when we met, he threw
Speaker 2: an egg at me and I caught it, and then
Speaker 2: the rest is. Ye, we fell in love, but I
Speaker 2: had actually been stalking him before that, like as I
Speaker 2: catched the ferry home. Oh yeah, like you know when
Speaker 2: you're younger, you have in my diary, I was, you know,
Speaker 2: I love, but there was like a list. You had
Speaker 2: a list of crushes. There was never just one exclusive crush.
Speaker 2: So he was on the lead.
Speaker 1: Now you've got to keep your options open.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, So he was on the list. And yeah,
Speaker 2: we went trick or treating one night with friends and
Speaker 2: we ran into I thought we were about to get
Speaker 2: mugged or something horrendous, because that's where my mind goes.
Speaker 2: So I hid in like the garden, and then realized
Speaker 2: these big scary men were actually like fourteen year old
Speaker 2: boys just trick or treating with us. So we had
Speaker 2: this wonderful catch up and as we left, he kind
Speaker 2: of tried to egg us and I caught it. So
Speaker 2: we've been together kind of ever since and grew up together,
Speaker 2: which was, you know, lovely and challenging all at the
Speaker 2: same time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 3: And then fast forward.
Speaker 2: Sorry, he was from the bush, and I just knew
Speaker 2: that if we were going to be together forever, his
Speaker 2: passion for farming and life out he was going to
Speaker 2: have to kind of become one of my passions. And
Speaker 2: I was going to move to this life. So that
Speaker 2: took some time to get my head around, but eventually
Speaker 2: I moved out here, probably over ten years ago now,
Speaker 2: and we're married and we have four kids, and I'm
Speaker 2: just sinking my teeth into life in the bush.
Speaker 1: And I think that in itself is a fascinating part
Speaker 1: of the story, because to make a relationship work when
Speaker 1: you do fall in love with someone, you know, sometimes
Speaker 1: it happens when you already live in the same city
Speaker 1: and you have really compatible ideas of the future. But
Speaker 1: sometimes one of you has to make a really big
Speaker 1: compromise and shift and change in you know, where you
Speaker 1: envisioned your life would go. And you know, I was
Speaker 1: reading that after you guys finished school, you did a
Speaker 1: gap year overseas together. You were in England, Jack traveled
Speaker 1: the world. So it's not as though you both grew
Speaker 1: up in a small town and never wanted to leave
Speaker 1: and just stayed in a small town. You know, you'd
Speaker 1: gone out to see the world, so you could have
Speaker 1: conceivably had very different ideas of what the future might
Speaker 1: hold for you. So I think for other people out
Speaker 1: there who have made big moves for love and for
Speaker 1: their partner and to make a family work, we'll probably
Speaker 1: identify a lot when we get to then ata of
Speaker 1: how you adjust to that identity. I know you cried
Speaker 1: for like six hours of a drive all the way
Speaker 1: there the first time, but that doesn't mean you don't
Speaker 1: want that life. It just means you know, there are
Speaker 1: hard parts of giving up your identity to an extent
Speaker 1: absolutely topping it for a new one.
Speaker 2: And I think that we were unique in the sense
Speaker 2: that we were both like even from a young age.
Speaker 2: I remember my mum saying to me because we didn't
Speaker 2: take it too seriously at school. We weren't one of
Speaker 2: those you know, those high school relationships that jumped to
Speaker 2: kind of marriage straight away and that you just you know,
Speaker 2: they're kind of We weren't on.
Speaker 3: Top of each other.
Speaker 2: We had we saw each other once in a while,
Speaker 2: but it just kind of kept going and that relationship
Speaker 2: started to get more and more serious, and so by
Speaker 2: the end of school we'd already been together for a
Speaker 2: few years, and it was just this kind of knowing
Speaker 2: that this person is significant, neither one of us getting
Speaker 2: ahead of ourselves, and neither one of us kind of
Speaker 2: even talking about a lifetime together, but knowing that basically
Speaker 2: that we had kind of met the person. I think,
Speaker 2: and I remember Mum saying to me, you know, he'll
Speaker 2: live in Warren, like that's where his heart is. And
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, yeah, and she said this will
Speaker 2: this will be a challenge for you. And we were
Speaker 2: so young. I think I was eighteen. I'm like, oh
Speaker 2: my God, like, let me worry about that later. But
Speaker 2: she had the wisdom. Mum met my dad when she
Speaker 2: was like eleven or thirteen or something bizarre like that,
Speaker 2: so she had this we have this shared history. Yeah,
Speaker 2: really similar story. It's crazily similar. But she paid this
Speaker 2: relationship the respect it kind of deserved, even when we
Speaker 2: were younger, which most parents are like, oh, teenage love.
Speaker 2: You know, they'll get over it. But as we approach,
Speaker 2: you know, in those in that year twelve time when
Speaker 2: things start to get a bit serious, we're approaching the exams,
Speaker 2: and you know that talk around like you shouldn't have
Speaker 2: a serious boyfriend in year twelve because you know, when
Speaker 2: exams comes, it's a risk. And sure enough, the friday
Speaker 2: before the exams, we broke up. I was just heartbroken
Speaker 2: and a proper heartbreak and I couldn't so I did
Speaker 2: not care one bit about the exams. You know, we
Speaker 2: obviously reconciled, and I feel like I went through a
Speaker 2: lot of maturing through those years when when most people aren't,
Speaker 2: because this person that I happened to meet when I
Speaker 2: was so young was the love of my life. So
Speaker 2: we kind of, as I said, we grew up together
Speaker 2: and went through some you know, challenging heartbreak. Although I
Speaker 2: don't think he was that heartbroken to be fair, just me.
Speaker 1: That's you know, lutural heartbreak.
Speaker 2: Exactly. He came around, he came around.
Speaker 1: I think something else really lovely about your story as
Speaker 1: well is that, you know, a lot of the conversations
Speaker 1: in Anyone's kind of way toa on the show is
Speaker 1: about chapters and different people coming into your life at
Speaker 1: different times, but not very often have we had someone
Speaker 1: where you don't need to necessarily have had multiple different
Speaker 1: people to bring out different versions of you. You've both
Speaker 1: evolved as different people together and it's possible, which is
Speaker 1: really inspiring. But also I think what it makes me
Speaker 1: think of is how there's such a typical story. I
Speaker 1: mean even with my husband, who was you know, brought
Speaker 1: up in a small town in Devonport and in Tazzi,
Speaker 1: and the whole idea of success in the future was
Speaker 1: get out of that small town, not move from Sydney
Speaker 1: back into a small town. And so yes, you're also
Speaker 1: a really shining example of kind of making a not
Speaker 1: a reverse but a perceived move in the opposite direction
Speaker 1: to what most people would expect people were trying to do,
Speaker 1: which I think is fascinating as well, because again it
Speaker 1: reiterates that idea that happiness and success and fulfillment doesn't
Speaker 1: look one way for everyone, and you make what makes
Speaker 1: in your life work. But looking at you in Uni,
Speaker 1: you know, I was reading about your degree in management
Speaker 1: and then also international studies. You were in Chile, like
Speaker 1: you were in Santiago, and it's not like you didn't
Speaker 1: have a really big international goal. So how did that
Speaker 1: you know? When you were at Uni, what did you think?
Speaker 1: I think that combination of degrees was going to lead
Speaker 1: you to And then how did that change as you
Speaker 1: were returning to Australia, because that's a big shift in itself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I did have a curiosity and an interest
Speaker 2: in a big life, I suppose, and I went to
Speaker 2: this fantastic school where they it was an all girls
Speaker 2: school where they really celebrated what women can do. And
Speaker 2: you know, I felt like I'd been given this incredible
Speaker 2: gift and of course we're going to go and make
Speaker 2: the most of it. And then ultimately, when somebody has
Speaker 2: a vocation like farming and in a partnership, anything I
Speaker 2: really wanted to do was less important or less significant
Speaker 2: to both of us than his absolute passion of farming,
Speaker 2: So it just naturally took a back seat. But I
Speaker 2: actually think almost before that happened, I was subconsciously charting
Speaker 2: a path that would allow me to work out wherever
Speaker 2: we may be in remote Australia. So that time in Chile,
Speaker 2: you're right, I was setting international studies of majoring in Chile,
Speaker 2: and it was kind of, I think, my last ditch,
Speaker 2: kind of I'm just going to go and have the
Speaker 2: best time ever and have this fun and a real,
Speaker 2: you know, a significant learning experience that doesn't need to
Speaker 2: lead me to some employment opportunity. It's really about living
Speaker 2: for living's sake, because you know, it wasn't about I
Speaker 2: don't like, I didn't have some plan as to where
Speaker 2: that degree would take me. I just wanted to learn.
Speaker 2: So Jack came with me for six months of that
Speaker 2: year and he lived with me in Chile and did
Speaker 2: nothing while I went off to university. And he kind
Speaker 2: of sweeped the floors of this this Chilean household, and
Speaker 2: the host the family we lived with was like, who
Speaker 2: is this guy who cleans when you're at university?
Speaker 3: So we had this wonderful time together, and in fact.
Speaker 2: You're right about like his dad was this really wise, incredible,
Speaker 2: bright mind who didn't want the burden of farming to
Speaker 2: just be an absolute given for Jack. In fact, he
Speaker 2: often used to say, you know, I don't want this
Speaker 2: life for you. You need to go off. It'd be
Speaker 2: mad to come back and get into farming because it's
Speaker 2: a mugs game. When deep down we knew, we knew
Speaker 2: absolutely that he wanted Jack to you know, it's such
Speaker 2: a joy for him to see Jack living this life.
Speaker 2: But so he was, you know, at times, pushing him
Speaker 2: away to go and learn, go and get a degree,
Speaker 2: don't come straight back to the farm. But when Jack
Speaker 2: turned around at twenty two or something and said I'm
Speaker 2: going to go spend six months in South America, his
Speaker 2: dad thought that was madness, like what are you going
Speaker 2: to waste your time doing that for? But I think
Speaker 2: for our relationship it was kind of a significant moment too,
Speaker 2: because he was following me in that little dreaming moment
Speaker 2: and we could have that great experience together. And then
Speaker 2: when we moved home is when he settled and went
Speaker 2: back to the farm permanently, and I spent a bit
Speaker 2: more time in Sydney. So I feel that for the
Speaker 2: sake of our relationship, that give and take element he
Speaker 2: was giving to me in that moment, and it's lovely
Speaker 2: that we had that. But in terms of that culture
Speaker 2: of moving away from a small town because there couldn't
Speaker 2: be much on offer in a small town. You've got
Speaker 2: to go and experienced life elsewhere. I think by from
Speaker 2: the bush, part of my motivation is to say to people,
Speaker 2: my god, look at what's out here. Look at these
Speaker 2: people doing incredible things. There's talents, there's eccentricity, there's all
Speaker 2: sorts of things in the bush that maybe that really
Speaker 2: two dimensional image of a farmer in a hat that
Speaker 2: we present to Australia is not you know, it's not
Speaker 2: the only thing. And there is joy to be had
Speaker 2: in a small town, for sure.
Speaker 1: I think that's something I loved reading or listening to
Speaker 1: in your Australiaday speech was that you know, on any
Speaker 1: given day and Ossie Farmer is an amateur scientist, a vet,
Speaker 1: a builder, a mechanic than managing multimillion dollar assets, you know,
Speaker 1: in terms of business and management and technical skills, like
Speaker 1: you don't just grow sheep and have a cropping farm
Speaker 1: by just you know, wearing a hat and chewing on hey,
Speaker 1: you know, like it actually takes there's oh my god,
Speaker 1: exactly genetically testing sheep. Like there's science. There's so much
Speaker 1: intellect and stimulation. It's just I love what you have
Speaker 1: done because you're bringing that to light in a way
Speaker 1: that people would a assume that you came from the
Speaker 1: bush to have the passion that you do, Like why
Speaker 1: would anyone choose to go and become so passionate when
Speaker 1: they've come from a city. But also you've given it
Speaker 1: a platform where, you know, because they are so busy
Speaker 1: genetically testing sheep, most farmers don't think I need a
Speaker 1: social media platform to help show this to the world.
Speaker 1: You know, you've created a really wonderful way to communicate
Speaker 1: that as a career path but also as a life path,
Speaker 1: that it's a beautiful place. You've got four children growing
Speaker 1: up in the bush. What an amazing way for them
Speaker 1: to grow up in this country.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's right. It's not just a beautiful place.
Speaker 2: It's an impressive place. It's an interesting, engaging place. And
Speaker 2: I think modesty runs so deep in rural Australia. There's
Speaker 2: a culture and one of the things, you know, having
Speaker 2: moved from the city to the bush, the culture shock
Speaker 2: was bigger than moving to Chile, Like there is significant
Speaker 2: cultural difference between the city and the bush. And I
Speaker 2: had cousins in the country and i'd grown Luckily, I
Speaker 2: already loved it before I got here, but certainly living
Speaker 2: here and getting to know the community more, I think
Speaker 2: that same modesty holds us back a little bit out
Speaker 2: here because nobody wants to sing it from the rooftops
Speaker 2: about how great we are and what we do and
Speaker 2: like agriculture and Australia is incredible in terms of where
Speaker 2: it sits globally. So I just think that that's the
Speaker 2: story worth telling, and sometimes it takes an outsider's eye
Speaker 2: to present that in a way that people in the
Speaker 2: city will understand and get. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I also love looking at from you know,
Speaker 1: the big move to Warren and then your career path
Speaker 1: shifting towards agriculture and growing the skills that you would
Speaker 1: need to then found by from the bush I think
Speaker 1: four years after that. It's so interesting how that started
Speaker 1: to brew. Like it wasn't something you just arrived and went,
Speaker 1: oh my god, there's drought. Oh I need to spread
Speaker 1: this to the world. You know. It was like again
Speaker 1: one of those things that people's big yay And as
Speaker 1: you mentioned, the very start of your yay, not you know,
Speaker 1: anywhere near the end starts as a small seed and
Speaker 1: little bits. You know, you started by getting a job
Speaker 1: in agriculture. I think it was addraft that you worked
Speaker 1: out for four years before by from the Bush was
Speaker 1: even a concept. So can you take us through that period?
Speaker 1: It was that four years at a draft when you'd
Speaker 1: first moved or were you? Were you still in Sydney then?
Speaker 1: And then how did sort of that? Two thousand and
Speaker 1: I think it was October the sixteenth, twenty nineteen that
Speaker 1: buy from the Ball my God researched, Oh God, you
Speaker 1: mean stalker ish?
Speaker 2: Yes, I love it. I'm into it. So I think
Speaker 2: I was saying before that I subconsciously shaped a career
Speaker 2: around living out here, and what I was really interested
Speaker 2: in was how to you use I did a management degree,
Speaker 2: but focusing on the leisure industry, so tourism, the art, sport,
Speaker 2: and what I was interested in is how they can
Speaker 2: be used as a mechanism for community development. So when
Speaker 2: I moved out here, I moved toward a community development
Speaker 2: job and specifically working with Indigenous youth engagement, so working
Speaker 2: in kind of at risk youth, and then had a
Speaker 2: side way step into kind of athlete development, so again
Speaker 2: trying to create meaningful pathways from remote western New South
Speaker 2: Wales through to high performance sport. But still my passion
Speaker 2: was kind of the community development side of that, and
Speaker 2: then a bit more youth work in there too, And
Speaker 2: I was on maternity lead from this youth work job,
Speaker 2: and this girl who works with my husband was pitching
Speaker 2: this idea of ag Draft, which was an employment platform
Speaker 2: to connect employers in agriculture with job seekers. And labor
Speaker 2: in agriculture is a global problem, It's an enormous problem.
Speaker 2: And she was pitching this idea and I hadn't had
Speaker 2: anything to do with startups, nothing to do with pitching,
Speaker 2: but I was super interested because we had talked about
Speaker 2: this labor problem and actually we kind of stewed on
Speaker 2: a solution of our own. And I worked on this
Speaker 2: pitch with her, and weirdly, I think a startup and
Speaker 2: community work have a bit in common. You're trying to
Speaker 2: get buy in in both instances. So I was helping
Speaker 2: her with her pitch, and in the end she won
Speaker 2: this competition, she launched the business, and then I started
Speaker 2: working for her and eventually kind of became a co
Speaker 2: founder in that online platform. And that was my first
Speaker 2: fora both into agriculture but also that startup online platform
Speaker 2: space and learned so much. I'd worked in a really
Speaker 2: not for profit kind of area before, and this was
Speaker 2: absolutely for profit. You were kind of heckling to get
Speaker 2: capital investment. I remember going to this pitch competition and
Speaker 2: she used these words like iterate and pivot. I was like,
Speaker 2: do we need to mention that because I feel like
Speaker 2: that's just like a BITWANKI And she was like, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: we need to mention it. Okay, But anyway, Yeah, it
Speaker 2: was a steep learning curve. It was also this great
Speaker 2: experience of working with a female partner and how that works.
Speaker 2: I didn't know her that well before, but we worked
Speaker 2: really well together. And then, weirdly, I think By from
Speaker 2: the Bush was a combination of that startup online space
Speaker 2: and that my community development work coming together.
Speaker 3: Was that so long winded?
Speaker 1: Sorry, oh my god, it was the shortest winded ever? No,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, your story is fascinating, trust me. I
Speaker 1: no long winded, And that was not It was so
Speaker 1: articulate and eloquent. You were such a good speaker. I
Speaker 1: start to get goosebumps around this point of any episode
Speaker 1: where all those dots start to come together, Like even
Speaker 1: if you might have at that time not really known
Speaker 1: what direction all these jobs were going into. Lots of
Speaker 1: sideways moves, lots of upskilling, but again not really clear
Speaker 1: what it was ultimately going to be. For that now
Speaker 1: knowing what you have done with that, it all makes
Speaker 1: sense looking back at the skills that you were acquiring
Speaker 1: in the startup land and then also in pitching and
Speaker 1: stuff like, it all comes together. But I love reminding
Speaker 1: people who are in the chapter now where they don't
Speaker 1: get where they're going, just reminding them, don't worry, they're
Speaker 1: just stop and everything will start to connect eventually, because
Speaker 1: then you were able to turn it into something that
Speaker 1: has become so you know, pervasive in society. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: feel like life is just one big skill acquisition journey,
Speaker 1: isn't it. And that's what I kind of I kind
Speaker 1: of felt like my life out here was I was
Speaker 1: going to try and find meaningful work to do around
Speaker 1: my life.
Speaker 2: In the middle of nowhere, And of course now it's
Speaker 2: led me to something super significant. And I couldn't be
Speaker 2: doing this unless I lived where I lived, So absolutely
Speaker 2: what you just said is true, and I think I
Speaker 2: have this because I share an office with a few
Speaker 2: other women in a small town of Warren, and they
Speaker 2: have watched me. I've worked in that office when I
Speaker 2: worked for a youth foundation organizing you know, skate skateboarding
Speaker 2: events for young people. Then into agg draft and you know,
Speaker 2: trying to make a go of it, trying to make
Speaker 2: a go of this startup, trying to get customers, trying
Speaker 2: to prove the concept. It's such a lonely, lonely path,
Speaker 2: that startup world. And then and then Buy from the
Speaker 2: Bush and it's like this incredible instant success. And always
Speaker 2: the journalists say, oh my god, it's such a simple idea.
Speaker 2: Did you ever expect it? Would? You know? It's been
Speaker 2: this overnight success. And my friend kind of interrupted me
Speaker 2: one day and said, every time I hear that, I
Speaker 2: want to say, well, that's the short version, you know,
Speaker 2: because she had watched this evolution, which you know I
Speaker 2: haven't been conscious of, but absolutely, you just bit by
Speaker 2: bit piecing it together. And then what the wonderful thing
Speaker 2: about Buy from the Bush was that I could just
Speaker 2: be my absolute self and use the little bits and
Speaker 2: pieces I'd gathered from elsewhere and apply them, you know,
Speaker 2: without restraint. In this context and have an impact. I
Speaker 2: think possibly when I've been doing other things, I've been
Speaker 2: holding back one part of myself because I thought, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, that's not appropriate in this context, or that's
Speaker 2: not relevant, or I don't know enough to kind of
Speaker 2: speak up. And then this comes along and I can
Speaker 2: just go, well, I you know, I don't have to
Speaker 2: be anyone but a mother for a farmer's wife who's
Speaker 2: got a little bit of experience here and there, and
Speaker 2: I'm trying to create change. And I think it frees
Speaker 2: you up, kind of tap into your talents.
Speaker 1: Yes, Oh my gosh. And that's where this wayta concept
Speaker 1: just makes me so excited, because most of the time,
Speaker 1: when people do find their thing and the thing that
Speaker 1: does take off, it's when they stop curtailing parts of
Speaker 1: themselves because of expectation or circumstance or self doubt or
Speaker 1: whatever it is. You can't find the job that suited
Speaker 1: for you until you let who you really are actually
Speaker 1: come out. Otherwise, how can anything suit you because no
Speaker 1: one knows who you actually are. Yes, So I love
Speaker 1: that so much, And I also love the way that
Speaker 1: you've framed it. A couple of times now around you
Speaker 1: were trying to build a life and a career and
Speaker 1: a pathway that suited where you lived. And most people
Speaker 1: don't do it that way. They don't do it in
Speaker 1: that order. They make the rest of their life work
Speaker 1: around what they think success is and they try and
Speaker 1: reverse engineer from there. And it's unusual for someone to
Speaker 1: have chosen a lifestyle and chosen a family situation or
Speaker 1: chosen location and then have built their dreams within that framework.
Speaker 1: It's quite a different way to come at things. But
Speaker 1: I think your story is amazing for proving that it
Speaker 1: doesn't preclude you from finding something that you could never
Speaker 1: have found in Sydney. You can't found buy from the
Speaker 1: bush from Sydney. You wouldn't have even had the insight
Speaker 1: into the communities that you would have if you were there.
Speaker 1: So I just think that's really beautiful that you're, you know,
Speaker 1: exactly where you're meant to be. And obviously the person
Speaker 1: who was the right person to bring this message to life,
Speaker 1: even though it did just start as a hashtag and
Speaker 1: has now become this gigantic movement. So talk us through that.
Speaker 1: You know that twenty nineteen moment at the kitchen table
Speaker 1: and where the idea started, Like I know, it was
Speaker 1: really driven by the impact of drought, which in Melbourne,
Speaker 1: you know, we're always complaining about how much it rains
Speaker 1: and how wet it is and have really such a
Speaker 1: big detachment from actually the impact of drought on farmers.
Speaker 1: How did that kind of start to spur you on
Speaker 1: to start this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we where I was there, we've been in
Speaker 2: about three years of drought and it was it was
Speaker 2: really about as bad as it gets on in our
Speaker 2: little patch of country. But you know, in Queensland there'd
Speaker 2: been communities in six years of drought, and at times
Speaker 2: there was media coverage here and there. But then what
Speaker 2: I noticed was, you know, all of a sudden, maybe
Speaker 2: the Hunter Valley was dry and you know, just outside
Speaker 2: of Sydney, and then you know, media agencies were sending
Speaker 2: people an hour out of Sydney or two hours out
Speaker 2: of Sydney and getting a reporter to sound on like
Speaker 2: dry earth and starting to talk about the drought. But
Speaker 2: through these really basic frame that didn't really connect with
Speaker 2: me as a you know, as somebody who was involved
Speaker 2: in farming and somebody experiencing it, and so you know,
Speaker 2: I stewed on that for a while and over the years.
Speaker 2: You know, you don't start complaining about drought in the
Speaker 2: first year because that's just what farming is. Everyone's used
Speaker 2: to that. The second year, it's like, you know, this
Speaker 2: is a bit tough, but this is what farming is.
Speaker 2: And then and in this third year, I just you know,
Speaker 2: I was kind of, I think, because of my city sensibility,
Speaker 2: was wondering whether this is as bad as I thought.
Speaker 2: It was, Like, I was like, this is horrendous, Like
Speaker 2: there is no joy in the day here. It's incredibly
Speaker 2: stressful because you know, cash flow drives up. People are
Speaker 2: kind of asset rich and cash poor, often in agriculture,
Speaker 2: so they're sitting on really valuable assets, but they can't
Speaker 2: make money out of them. They have to keep spending
Speaker 2: money on them when it doesn't rain, and it's just
Speaker 2: this accumulative stress. Then that ripples through the community because
Speaker 2: things like fundraisers at school are canceled because people don't
Speaker 2: really want to spend money on tickets. But you don't
Speaker 2: really want to acknowledge that that's why they're being canceled.
Speaker 2: You know, shop fronts start to close, and the shop
Speaker 2: owners might not go to the trade fair to buy
Speaker 2: new wars because nobody's coming in to buy their old
Speaker 2: stock anyway. The hairdresser stops getting clients. Things are kind
Speaker 2: of slow. You can really easily get in. People don't
Speaker 2: buy as much like groceries. There's just these little things
Speaker 2: that add up, and I think, you know, people stop
Speaker 2: looking at each other in the eyes quite so much,
Speaker 2: and you don't smile as much. And if you get together,
Speaker 2: you kind of talk about these dust storms because it's awful,
Speaker 2: but also you don't really want to talk about depression.
Speaker 2: And then so one day a couple of things happened.
Speaker 2: I heard this radio interview and it was between the
Speaker 2: Prime Minister and a journalist and it was so combative,
Speaker 2: and I kind of understood it from both angles. One
Speaker 2: was trying to make the Prime Minister accountable and saying,
Speaker 2: you know, you wouldn't even know there was a drought
Speaker 2: on in Australia, and then the Prime Minister was saying,
Speaker 2: but look at the money we're giving, you know, And
Speaker 2: all of it was just ignoring the big reality, which
Speaker 2: is this human cost and this burden of stress that
Speaker 2: was being carried by households and especially women. And all
Speaker 2: the vision was men in paddocks and dying sheep, and
Speaker 2: I just felt that this community experience was possibly not
Speaker 2: understood by people in the city because of course we
Speaker 2: weren't telling the story. And then I, in the course
Speaker 2: of two days, I ran into it three people who
Speaker 2: mentioned suicide, like worry about suicide among their family members,
Speaker 2: and I stopped and thought, no, it's not because I'm
Speaker 2: from the city. This is actually really bad. People just
Speaker 2: are tight lipped here. So I thought, there's nothing to lose.
Speaker 2: I'm just going to start sharing all these incredible businesses
Speaker 2: that exist out here and encouraging people in the city
Speaker 2: to do Christmas shopping from them. And it was as
Speaker 2: simple as like literally. At first, I tried to write
Speaker 2: a letter in response to this radio interview. I thought,
Speaker 2: now I've got to tell people what it's really like,
Speaker 2: and then thought, what the hell is the letter going
Speaker 2: to do? And like, who is it to? Who am
Speaker 2: I sending this to? So instead I kind of closed
Speaker 2: the letter and opened Canva and created a logo and
Speaker 2: then posted in Instagram. And this friend who I'd mentioned
Speaker 2: it to, like, I said to Millie or will you
Speaker 2: help me with this? I've got this weird idea, and
Speaker 2: she said, yeah, I'll help you, and the next minute
Speaker 2: she's getting friend requests from the bulls. She's like, whoa, Okay,
Speaker 2: this is happening, and so it just started from there.
Speaker 2: But that was the idea that I wanted to kind
Speaker 2: of reframe the conversation around drought to include the impact
Speaker 2: on community, on small business, on women, but also in
Speaker 2: the same breath, to celebrate this like hustle that was happening.
Speaker 2: Because what happens is that the cash flow from agriculture
Speaker 2: drives up, and so people not even working in farming
Speaker 2: are affected, obviously, and the impact of that is that
Speaker 2: women often those supplementary incomes that were maybe a hobby
Speaker 2: or a side project start to become like the primary income,
Speaker 2: and so they're drive and they're almost their position within
Speaker 2: the household becomes more of a breadwinner, which is quite
Speaker 2: a significant shift. So capturing that but obviously in a
Speaker 2: light and accessible way and just saying here, here's a
Speaker 2: nice handbag. Do you want to buy it? And you'll
Speaker 2: be helping a rural community if you do.
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, guys, but I get such
Speaker 1: a rush of motivation and energy to keep learning and
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Speaker 1: you're feeling the same, I am so thrilled to share
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Speaker 1: so far, optimizing your online strategy for sales, which we've
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Speaker 1: One giants over lining of the past year or so
Speaker 1: has been getting access to some of the cleverest minds
Speaker 1: and their wisdom without having to go anywhere, So don't
Speaker 1: miss the chance to take advantage while you can hopefully
Speaker 1: see you there. Neighborhood Oh my gosh, Grace, it's just
Speaker 1: I am so I just filled with passion and awe
Speaker 1: and compassion as well, and just excitement that this has
Speaker 1: done what you had hoped, but probably well beyond what
Speaker 1: you had ever dreamed could be possible. But I think
Speaker 1: why it's so powerful is that often you do get
Speaker 1: these human interest stories and you'll see you'll get a
Speaker 1: little inkling of how tough it actually is and the
Speaker 1: ripple effects through the community beyond farming. But then there's
Speaker 1: this big divide of what can I do, Like even
Speaker 1: if I wanted to donate money, it's like, well where
Speaker 1: and how do I make sure it gets to that farmer?
Speaker 1: And how do I impact that actual problem? And so
Speaker 1: you've pared storytelling with action towards helping the problem, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like you've made this direct way
Speaker 1: of people to they get the emotion sparked, but then
Speaker 1: they can do something with it. And there are so
Speaker 1: many people who would want to help you, but just
Speaker 1: not have the platform to do it. That's the biggest
Speaker 1: problem in most cases is not the lack of compassion,
Speaker 1: it's a lack of what do I do with that compassion?
Speaker 1: And to see I mean I was reading some of
Speaker 1: the stats again and I just nearly wanted to cry
Speaker 1: that in six weeks there was a six hundred and
Speaker 1: sixty percent increase for business owners from creating by from
Speaker 1: the Bush as a hashtag, and five million dollars in
Speaker 1: revenue that you had generated in just four months that
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been there. And I think even Australia Post
Speaker 1: reported a forty percent increase in parcel postage in regional
Speaker 1: areas to the point where the packages were selling out
Speaker 1: because people like there was just no precedent for that
Speaker 1: kind of volume for businesses and that, I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know how you don't cry every day just thinking
Speaker 1: about that alone. You are just extraordinary for like making
Speaker 1: that happen. And I know it probably doesn't think him
Speaker 1: very often for you, but but I'm sure when it does,
Speaker 1: like that is just amazing.
Speaker 2: It is amazing. I do like to just think about
Speaker 2: it every now and again because it has been such
Speaker 2: a whirlwind. But those first four months leading into Christmas
Speaker 2: and beyond were just something. I mean, if you ever
Speaker 2: needed a reminder of how good people are, we were
Speaker 2: at the cold face of that, Like it was just
Speaker 2: I couldn't even share. I kept saying to you it
Speaker 2: I wish people could just see my inbox and see
Speaker 2: the offers of help and the support and the kind
Speaker 2: of joy that people were getting from being involved in
Speaker 2: this community movement. I think people like a community driven
Speaker 2: response that's going to actually enact change. So being kind
Speaker 2: of a conduit to that good will was just so
Speaker 2: rewarding and still is.
Speaker 1: And I think it's also we talked about this actually
Speaker 1: in the PayPal webinar that we did the other day,
Speaker 1: just in terms of community building as well. Is that
Speaker 1: I think when you're building a business, a lot of
Speaker 1: people assume that you need to be totally reinventing the
Speaker 1: wheel every time, Like you can't start a business or
Speaker 1: you can't roll with an idea unless you've invented something new,
Speaker 1: which in this day and age is very very rare
Speaker 1: unless it's a very minute scientific discovery or like there's
Speaker 1: not much that hasn't been rediscovered. But being a conduit
Speaker 1: that solves a problem as a service is almost more
Speaker 1: impactful because that's the disconnect between problem and solution. Is
Speaker 1: often more the problem than like a lack of having
Speaker 1: a particular product. And I love that you've built a feeling.
Speaker 1: You've built a brand, you've built a sense of belonging
Speaker 1: without having to physically create a product, because you've created
Speaker 1: a community. And I think that's really beautiful as well.
Speaker 1: So if anyone is sitting on an idea that doesn't
Speaker 1: feel like, oh, but you know, I'm just connecting A
Speaker 1: with B, well that's what a business is, connecting A
Speaker 1: with B.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, there wasn't need. There were multiple needs that this
Speaker 2: tapped into. And there was a need on the farming side,
Speaker 2: but there was also this need in the city of
Speaker 2: as you say, somebody to facilitate them wanting to help
Speaker 2: and wanting to support. They just needed to be enabled
Speaker 2: to do that. And that's what this did. And I
Speaker 2: think even further to your point, we didn't have a product.
Speaker 2: It was just a hopeful movement. And then we have
Speaker 2: now developed an online marketplace to kind of build infrastructure
Speaker 2: around this community and around this movement. And in some ways,
Speaker 2: you know, this was never meant to be a business
Speaker 2: for me. It was a response to a crisis. But
Speaker 2: you know, in business theory, what we did was build
Speaker 2: value and build that social proof and that brand loyalty,
Speaker 2: and then launch a business model that hopefully still is
Speaker 2: true to that value and that you know, why people
Speaker 2: joined with us in the first place. It's just a
Speaker 2: revenue generating model now that will sustain our activity going forward,
Speaker 2: you know. So it has been interesting also, I mean
Speaker 2: that's I don't know whether it is that interesting to you,
Speaker 2: but for me that quite a fascinating challenge and transition
Speaker 2: from this hope movement to business and getting you know,
Speaker 2: all the nuts and bolts of that. And we've had
Speaker 2: this amazing support from PayPal in order for us, you know,
Speaker 2: to do that, but the psyche and the mindset around it,
Speaker 2: you have to kind of always be in touch with
Speaker 2: your purpose and your core in order to still get
Speaker 2: the joy out of it.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I think that's something that you're so good
Speaker 1: at speaking about. And it was interesting before we started
Speaker 1: recording the novelty or like how quickly this is skyrocketed
Speaker 1: from a movement to a business makes you feel like
Speaker 1: you're disqualified from talking about certain things, but I think
Speaker 1: it actually makes your opinions more relevant because we are
Speaker 1: in such a time of rapidly changing environments, inability really
Speaker 1: to plan much further ahead than a couple of months,
Speaker 1: constantly dealing with fast changes and uncertainty and rolling with
Speaker 1: like what's the next iteration? Stay in the bush? And
Speaker 1: then you've got another new exciting project coming and like
Speaker 1: everyone has been thrown into that environment now, So that
Speaker 1: makes peaceeople like you who have just been through it
Speaker 1: and are continuing to go through it. Your opinion is
Speaker 1: probably what we need to be the loudest right now,
Speaker 1: because you have gone into a time without having a
Speaker 1: real plan and then having to just figure out how
Speaker 1: best to continue that why in constantly changing circumstances. So
Speaker 1: feel free to also weave in some of the nata here,
Speaker 1: like the fast pace, the self doubt, the burnout, the
Speaker 1: overwhelm of choice of like which direction to go in?
Speaker 1: You know, how have you gone on to decide marketplace
Speaker 1: and then stay in the bush? And then also, I
Speaker 1: hear you have a very exciting new project that you
Speaker 1: might want to introduce here as well. Oh yeah, insert here,
Speaker 1: insert here TBC, which I don't know about. It was
Speaker 1: literally in the notes TBC because it comes out tomorrow
Speaker 1: at the time of recording, it will be out by
Speaker 1: the time we release this. So yeah, talk us through
Speaker 1: that next.
Speaker 3: Yes, BESTV Big Break.
Speaker 2: But do you want me to go in bed now,
Speaker 2: I know, I feel like I've got a bit to
Speaker 2: say before I get to that. So I think the
Speaker 2: something that came up as you were saying, and it
Speaker 2: definitely is my nata. I'm really embracing your language.
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 2: But it's that idea that I have lived life wanting
Speaker 2: to underpromise and over deliver, like that's kind of my approach.
Speaker 2: And I also am acutely aware, like whatever context, I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm quite aware of what I don't know. So I
Speaker 2: think some people aren't built like this, Like they're confident
Speaker 2: in what they know and that is enough. But even
Speaker 2: if I'm confident in what I know, I am often thinking, okay, well,
Speaker 2: but there's so much I don't know and there's so
Speaker 2: much yet to find out, And I think that that
Speaker 2: mindset is not a particularly positive one in some business context.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, sometimes if you're not going to
Speaker 2: sell yourself, then who the hell is? So it's your
Speaker 2: responsibility to do that and imposter syndrome. For me, it's
Speaker 2: definitely a thing in a work context, but specifically it's
Speaker 2: that thing, Well, I'm not an expert in this or
Speaker 2: that there are people in the room who would know
Speaker 2: more than me, so I'll just sit quietly and absorb
Speaker 2: their wonder and insight, you know. And actually what I
Speaker 2: learn more often than not is that I know more
Speaker 2: than I think I know, and my perspective, my insight
Speaker 2: is valuable and absolutely kind of there's a place for
Speaker 2: it at the table. And it's been the steepest learning
Speaker 2: curve you know, in eighteen months because straight away, like
Speaker 2: really really early on, we were working with Facebook and
Speaker 2: PayPal and big multinational corporations who wanted to partner with us.
Speaker 2: And in that moment, there's no like when you're just
Speaker 2: one person and a friend helping you, there's no departments
Speaker 2: you can deflect questions too, like it's you having to Okay,
Speaker 2: we'll talk about pr in this breath, we'll talk about
Speaker 2: legal in this breath. Will do some creative assets on
Speaker 2: the weekend, like just every little aspect of And every
Speaker 2: entrepreneur probably knows this, but for me, the pace that
Speaker 2: you mentioned was actually really beneficial because there was no
Speaker 2: time to stew on that idea that like, you don't
Speaker 2: know as much as these people. You just had to do, do, do, do,
Speaker 2: Like if I was asked to speak. Everything in me
Speaker 2: wanted to say no, but I was on this forward
Speaker 2: motion that I just was like, okay, yeah, because that's
Speaker 2: going to create more noise around by from the Bush,
Speaker 2: So I've got to do that. I've just my goal
Speaker 2: was so clearly reach and impact that no self indulgent
Speaker 2: nerves was going to trump that in a way, you know,
Speaker 2: it wasn't more important. So I consistently battle with that
Speaker 2: idea of wanting an expert in the room, like I
Speaker 2: just want to defer to an expert all the time.
Speaker 2: I want to defer to Dad, probably like Dad, tell
Speaker 2: me what's going on here? But yeah, learning that you
Speaker 2: are actually the decision maker and pushing back when something
Speaker 2: doesn't feel right, I'm still kind of learning to do that.
Speaker 2: But I have had really fortunate experiences with partners and
Speaker 2: people helping me along the way and early on like
Speaker 2: what also what needed to happen. And I think this
Speaker 2: is probably interesting to people. When Buy from the Bush
Speaker 2: did take off, there was heaps of offers of help,
Speaker 2: and my instinct naturally was to.
Speaker 3: Go, oh, chill out, like I'll.
Speaker 2: Do this, like I can handle this, and I don't
Speaker 2: know you, like can I really rely on you. But
Speaker 2: actually what I learned was output is just exponentially increased
Speaker 2: when you start to tap into two different people's gifts
Speaker 2: and skill sets. So like Georgie Robertson, who is a
Speaker 2: PR guru from Waga, got in touch with me about
Speaker 2: an opportunity early on, and then she was like, I
Speaker 2: think I can help you with this, like do you
Speaker 2: want to put my name on the bio and say
Speaker 2: like PR And I'm like no, no, because then I
Speaker 2: look like really professional. She's like, no, trust me, I
Speaker 2: think you might need it. So and then suddenly I
Speaker 2: had this like amazing insight from her and a partner
Speaker 2: in crime basically. And then a family friend said I
Speaker 2: know how to build websites, like do you want me
Speaker 2: to build it? And I was like no, no, no, And
Speaker 2: then next week, actually, oh my god, can you And
Speaker 2: we you know, we played together as kids, but we
Speaker 2: didn't know each other that well as adults, and suddenly
Speaker 2: we became, you know, work collaborators, and that has been
Speaker 2: a great learning for me. Just tap into like say yes,
Speaker 2: and then if it feels right and feels good, and
Speaker 2: then it's just such a joy when you do work
Speaker 2: in collaboration with somebody who's really great. So I am
Speaker 2: jumping all over the place here, but I think a
Speaker 2: couple of learnings that sometimes when you're busier, you actually
Speaker 2: don't get in the way of yourself quite so much,
Speaker 2: and you can achieve way more if you know, sideline
Speaker 2: the self doubt and just focus on getting shit done.
Speaker 2: And that certainly worked for me. I actually think, you know,
Speaker 2: a year on from launch, when it was down to
Speaker 2: the business end of you know, establishing a marketplace and
Speaker 2: suddenly asking people to pay for something that we've been
Speaker 2: doing for free, and you know, a slight shift in
Speaker 2: the relationship I had with the Bush businesses we showcase
Speaker 2: all of that. I tend to get kind of bogged
Speaker 2: down in because I really value relationships and value this
Speaker 2: community we've built, and I always want to make sure
Speaker 2: I'm delivering value. And actually you also need to make
Speaker 2: sure that you're making money so that you can survive.
Speaker 2: And I mean burnout is like I'm burnt out. I
Speaker 2: was burnt out like a while ago. I'm just running
Speaker 2: on empty, if I'm being honest. So I think that, yeah,
Speaker 2: there's so much nay, and it's just finding those moments
Speaker 2: in the day where you think, oh, this is quite fun,
Speaker 2: and if there's enough of those moments, it counterbalances the stress,
Speaker 2: because god, yeah, running a business is stressful.
Speaker 1: Such a shit show, but such a rewarding one. But
Speaker 1: I also I love what you said about the fact
Speaker 1: that just not giving your self doubt room or time
Speaker 1: really to kind of magnify itself sometimes the pace of
Speaker 1: the growth of a business. And we had this in
Speaker 1: the first year of Match a Maiden, when it was
Speaker 1: exponential and it was that kind of crazy rush. Feel
Speaker 1: the same, very very fortunate that I didn't have a
Speaker 1: minute to think to double guest anything because there was
Speaker 1: just no time. But I think if you're not forced
Speaker 1: into that pace, you have to create that same lack
Speaker 1: of room for self doubt to fester.
Speaker 2: Interesting, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like, even if your business isn't moving so fast that
Speaker 1: you don't have a choice, I think if you just
Speaker 1: rip the band aid, Like by the time I started
Speaker 1: the podcast, I didn't have that kind of speed or
Speaker 1: demand for the podcast, but I recreated that kind of
Speaker 1: pace by just buying the equipment and then booking a guest,
Speaker 1: and then booking the next guest, and kind of creating
Speaker 1: a pace that didn't allow me to think about it
Speaker 1: too much, because otherwise, if you don't rip the band aid,
Speaker 1: like you can create that speed of action to stop
Speaker 1: self doubt coming in for as long as you need to.
Speaker 2: I have often wondered that I've genuinely wondered whether you
Speaker 2: can simulate the experience because it felt so organic, like
Speaker 2: it felt that I was doing this really good thing,
Speaker 2: So self doubt see you later, like it's going to
Speaker 2: get in the way bouncing from one thing to the
Speaker 2: next to the next. And often thought if you thought
Speaker 2: about your commercial business, because at the time it wasn't
Speaker 2: If I had applied this attitude to ad draft, what
Speaker 2: could I have achieved if I really just thought the
Speaker 2: purpose of why you're doing this is so important that
Speaker 2: you need to just swallow any kind of doubt or
Speaker 2: barrier and just push through and push on, Like what
Speaker 2: could I have achieved? And I think I will take
Speaker 2: this into anything I do in the future. But it's
Speaker 2: interesting way you just put it that you actually have
Speaker 2: to make yourself And I think, actually that is my
Speaker 2: new approach to work, because when new projects come on,
Speaker 2: I do just kind of tumble into it and tumble
Speaker 2: through it because then you don't get the sweats, because
Speaker 2: you know those sweats that stop you from making the
Speaker 2: phone call.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I almost think of it now when I start
Speaker 1: something new as just barreling at it so hard and
Speaker 1: so fast that by the time you do slow down
Speaker 1: enough for self doubt to creep in, and it's too late.
Speaker 1: Like I've kind of hacked my own system by just
Speaker 1: going so far that by the time it does hit me,
Speaker 1: I've already committed and now I can't back at like
Speaker 1: I've stopped myself from being able to back out. It's
Speaker 1: almost like manipulating yourself into doing something that part of
Speaker 1: you doesn't want to do, but the other part of
Speaker 1: you does want to do.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, Yes.
Speaker 2: In fact, that a learning from one of your other
Speaker 2: podcasts that Osha Gunsberg shared about, you know that thing
Speaker 2: that the brain does where you if you push against
Speaker 2: something that you're afraid of, it actually grows and grows,
Speaker 2: the fear grows and grows. Or I'm paraphrasing and making
Speaker 2: it worse. But God, that resonated with me because my
Speaker 2: husband doesn't. He doesn't have that, Like if he has
Speaker 2: to make a bad phone call, he'll make it first.
Speaker 2: He'll pick up the phone and make it. And I've
Speaker 2: always admired that in him, and I have always thought, God,
Speaker 2: I need some of that in me, because I will
Speaker 2: think I'll get to that, I'll get to that.
Speaker 3: Tough phone call. But the tough phone call is so.
Speaker 2: Much easier if you do it in the beginning of
Speaker 2: the day to the end because the anxiety that has
Speaker 2: built up through the day.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, and it festers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: So tell us about this exciting new project which is
Speaker 1: happening too.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I didn't even insert it. You.
Speaker 1: I love that so much. It's clear that your passion
Speaker 1: driven rather than like sales first, do you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? You're passionate about the story.
Speaker 2: First, Well, I am equally passionate about this cool idea
Speaker 2: that we've got off the ground. So the idea is
Speaker 2: it's called BFTB Big Bro Buy from the Bush, Big
Speaker 2: Break Competition, and it's a pitching competition for anybody in
Speaker 2: rural Australia with an idea. I know, I'm watching you
Speaker 2: like a if they want to launch a product, to
Speaker 2: launch a business, or if they have one and they
Speaker 2: just want to scale up. They've got this kind of
Speaker 2: you know how you just need a little bit of
Speaker 2: something something to get you over a hurdle and get
Speaker 2: you to the next stage. So, sponsored by PayPal, we
Speaker 2: are launching tomorrow. There's incredible prizes, like sixty thousand dollars
Speaker 2: worth of prizes up for grabs and you've just got
Speaker 2: it all you have to do. It might be the
Speaker 2: most scary thing you've ever heard, but it's just you
Speaker 2: have to make a selfie video and pitch your great
Speaker 2: idea to us and we're going to share it with
Speaker 2: our followers and there's a cool judges that will tell
Speaker 2: you about later, probably by the time this goes to it.
Speaker 2: You can just find out on the website. But if
Speaker 2: you're rural and you've got this great idea, what we're
Speaker 2: really looking for is a business concept that will have
Speaker 2: positive impact on your community or rural Australia as a whole.
Speaker 2: Because obviously Buy from the Bush is a great evidence
Speaker 2: of you know, when people invest in business in the bush,
Speaker 2: incredible ripple effects flow through communities and we really believe that.
Speaker 2: So that's it. It's a pitching comp for rural Australians
Speaker 2: to get there to build legs around their business I'm
Speaker 2: really excited and we're gonna have lots of fun with it.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, what an amazing initiative. I'm so excited
Speaker 1: and so excited to hear from the businesses that pitch
Speaker 1: because oh my gosh, how exit exciting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can vote. There's a people's choice awards,
Speaker 2: so let you know about that.
Speaker 3: But yeah, that's the idea, because I think a couple.
Speaker 2: Of things like one is obviously in my experience at
Speaker 2: that draft pitching for capital. When you're in rural or
Speaker 2: remote Australia, you're often outside of those networks and you
Speaker 2: don't like bump into important people with buckets of cash
Speaker 2: that might want to back your idea. And I remember
Speaker 2: having this meeting in the Startup harb in Sydney, which
Speaker 2: is like a you know, a big building full of startups,
Speaker 2: and I pitched to this government agency and he said
Speaker 2: to me, look, if you were in this building with
Speaker 2: that kind of traction and those numbers, you'd be funded
Speaker 2: by now. And I just thought it was a moment
Speaker 2: where I thought, I think I believe you, like I
Speaker 2: think if I if this business was being run from
Speaker 2: from Sydney, we'd be off and running and how ridiculous
Speaker 2: because we were a business focused on agriculture and we
Speaker 2: absolutely should be able to grow from rural and remote Australia.
Speaker 2: So it's kind of those beginnings I think that's informing
Speaker 2: this competition and I just think we as rural Australians,
Speaker 2: we need to stand up and pitch ourselves, pitch our
Speaker 2: business and kind of sell the Bush even more so.
Speaker 2: That's why the slightly uncomfortable factor of standing in front
Speaker 2: of your camera and giving a selfie video as part
Speaker 2: of the competition, that's very deliberate because I think put
Speaker 2: your face out there and sell it and you know,
Speaker 2: find some customers when you do.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, what a brilliant, brilliant next chapter for
Speaker 1: Buy from Bush. And I'll absolutely make sure to put
Speaker 1: all the links to all the details for any rural
Speaker 1: businesses or potential businesses who are listening, and I think
Speaker 1: that's such a great idea as well, to get them
Speaker 1: out of the comfort zone to do a pitch, because
Speaker 1: even practicing on a video is once you've done it once,
Speaker 1: then you can do it twice. Then the third time
Speaker 1: isn't scary, and then the fourth time like it only
Speaker 1: gets easier than more you do it. So I'm so excited.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I can't wait to see what this
Speaker 1: does for the community.
Speaker 2: Same here, I really am. It's like this fun. At
Speaker 2: the beginning of the year, we were kind of brainstorming.
Speaker 2: We had all the team together brainstorming and thinking about
Speaker 2: what we could do, and this came up and it
Speaker 2: just energized to everyone. We're just sew into it. So
Speaker 2: to see it actually going live, I mean, there's so
Speaker 2: much I need to do before it actually goes live,
Speaker 2: but bring it on.
Speaker 1: So fun, Oh how wonderful. Well, I don't see how
Speaker 1: there's going to be any answers to the next section playta,
Speaker 1: which is your identity outside of all the things that
Speaker 1: you're doing, because I don't know how with four kids
Speaker 1: and all these projects on the schedule that you've got
Speaker 1: any time. But I think it is something that maybe
Speaker 1: not so much at the very beginning, or there are
Speaker 1: definitely times of your business where leisure and joy and
Speaker 1: downtime does sort of take a little bit of a backseat,
Speaker 1: But I think it is also important just for freshness
Speaker 1: of perspective as well and motivation to get away from
Speaker 1: what you're doing. Every now and then and just have
Speaker 1: moments where you forget what time it is or you're
Speaker 1: distract from the to do list. Whether it's you know,
Speaker 1: a long puzzle for hours, or if it's five minutes
Speaker 1: of lighting a candle, you know, whatever it is. It
Speaker 1: looks different for everyone, but I think play is something
Speaker 1: that's really important in our lives. Is there anything you
Speaker 1: do just to play? Just that you allow yourself to
Speaker 1: waste time with even small things in all your spare time.
Speaker 2: Exactly, My leisure management degree never comes up because it's
Speaker 2: the most random degree anybody could ever choose. But we
Speaker 2: did study the sociology of play and the idea that women,
Speaker 2: I know, women especially mothers, often suffer from not having
Speaker 2: those really clear to find kind of borders or parameters
Speaker 2: between work and play, And that is certainly my life.
Speaker 2: Like often my play is listening to a podcast while folding,
Speaker 2: or even sometimes it's kind of those you know, elements
Speaker 2: of service that women do, like visiting a family member
Speaker 2: or something and having a cup of tea is leisure,
Speaker 2: but it's also because you think that that, you know,
Speaker 2: that'd be a nice thing to do for the family member,
Speaker 2: So it's really interesting, like is there room for play
Speaker 2: in my life at the moment, not a lot. I
Speaker 2: do love a bath and I love a swim Like
Speaker 2: if I'm swimming, it's like your childlike when you're swimming,
Speaker 2: aren't you? So for me that's the best. But also
Speaker 2: just like quite random to share. But I'm going to
Speaker 2: because it's so fun. I just recently with no time
Speaker 2: to do it at all, but because I feel like
Speaker 2: this play element is so important and making a choice
Speaker 2: around like some spare time activity that makes me happy.
Speaker 2: A friend and I, in lieu of a twenty year
Speaker 2: reunion because a twenty years school re union has been
Speaker 2: canceled this year because of Delta, the Delta variant, we
Speaker 2: are making a podcast in loeui of a reunion, so
Speaker 2: we're like catching up with people over the airwaves. How
Speaker 2: fun is that?
Speaker 3: That's so much fun.
Speaker 2: Just started on Saturday and interviewing people, and I just
Speaker 2: left feeling so on top of the world because we've
Speaker 2: had these giggles, these school induced giggles. So school friends
Speaker 2: are kind of by play as well. If I could
Speaker 2: say that I love that and any creative pursuits.
Speaker 1: I also think it's really interesting that there are always
Speaker 1: things that you haven't commercialized like that have no real
Speaker 1: productivity outcome, Like you're doing a podcast, but you're not
Speaker 1: doing a podcast to get a million listeners. You're doing
Speaker 1: it to tell stories because you guys are replacing a reunion,
Speaker 1: you know. And that's like in so many categories of thinking,
Speaker 1: that's a waste of time, Like you could be using
Speaker 1: that for your business, you could be using that to
Speaker 1: listen to a business podcast, you know. But it's not
Speaker 1: a waste of time because it allows you to have
Speaker 1: the giggles that you need to get back to doing
Speaker 1: your work when you eventually do go back to doing
Speaker 1: your work, Which is why I think play is as
Speaker 1: unproductive as it feels in the moment, it's actually one
Speaker 1: of the most productive things you could do for yourself.
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, And the I mean the value of stepping back,
Speaker 2: stepping outside of you know, being involved in a business
Speaker 2: or in a family or in a relationship, like sometimes
Speaker 2: it's play is like going and seeing somebody other than
Speaker 2: your immediate family members, isn't it, And so that you
Speaker 2: can get that separation, and especially when you live on
Speaker 2: a farm, you know, sometimes you actually just don't see
Speaker 2: anybody else apart from family. Members for a long time,
Speaker 2: which is a bit like COVID lockdown. This is our lives.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so I agree with you that the value
Speaker 2: You're right, those wasted time thing is often the definition
Speaker 2: of play, isn't it. It's time that you can't put
Speaker 2: a value on, but it does so much good for you.
Speaker 2: So yeah, to be totally honest, I don't have a
Speaker 2: lot of time for play at the moment, but I
Speaker 2: do capture those little moments of like a bath or
Speaker 2: a swim or creative pursuits, because yeah, it brings me
Speaker 2: a lot of joy, and joy makes you better at
Speaker 2: your job, I think absolutely.
Speaker 1: And what about you and Jack, particularly having been through
Speaker 1: so many chapters of your lives together. I mean this
Speaker 1: is good advice for eddie couples, but particularly really long
Speaker 1: long standing couples. Do you guys do date night? And
Speaker 1: you know, I imagine like running a farm full time,
Speaker 1: having four kids and having a booming business and doing
Speaker 1: all when you are quite isolated together, Like, how do
Speaker 1: you kind of make that work?
Speaker 2: God? How do we make it work? I think he
Speaker 2: is a great listener, which not Oh God, I was
Speaker 2: going to say not all men are, but that's so unfair,
Speaker 2: But like I think we have established really great foundations
Speaker 2: over many many years before we carried all this responsibility
Speaker 2: and workload. But to be god, I don't know that
Speaker 2: we're doing it very well. So we're lucky that we
Speaker 2: enjoy the same things, and we like, you know, if
Speaker 2: we take holidays, we enjoy the same things, which is
Speaker 2: doing very little and doing it together. And you know,
Speaker 2: a beautiful meal is a highlight for us. Like we
Speaker 2: celebrate quite little things and don't need much, but we
Speaker 2: are so challenged by this stage of life, and to
Speaker 2: present any other kind of reflection of it would be
Speaker 2: totally a mistruth. So I hope that the little moments
Speaker 2: of like a cup of tea and you know, somebody
Speaker 2: told me about and I can't remember where it came from,
Speaker 2: but about just like the hello and the goodbye in
Speaker 2: the evening from your partner and how important that was,
Speaker 2: and that I've never consciously thought it. My dad used
Speaker 2: to call my mum every day. He ran his own
Speaker 2: business as well, so he worked a lot, and he
Speaker 2: would call home and I'd answer, and he'd say, how's
Speaker 2: your mum And I'd say, oh, yeah, she's good. He'd
Speaker 2: say Okay, just tell her I'm checking in. And I'd say,
Speaker 2: do you want to speak to No? No, no, no, just
Speaker 2: tell her I'm checking in. He's still annoying me so
Speaker 2: much as a kid, but now I think it was
Speaker 2: him saying I love you every single day from work,
Speaker 2: and she used to do things like put lippy on
Speaker 2: in the evenings before he got home. And I know,
Speaker 2: like it sounds so, I know in so many contexts
Speaker 2: that would be like, oh, like did she feel she
Speaker 2: needed to put But it's this shared kind of understanding
Speaker 2: I think between them of what they bring to the marriage,
Speaker 2: and I really hope that Jack and I also have that,
Speaker 2: and we have It's not through a date night or
Speaker 2: like a ritual, but it's through every day understanding that
Speaker 2: no matter how terribly hard it is, we are better
Speaker 2: for each other. And I'm certainly better for having him
Speaker 2: in my life, and I hope he feels the same daily.
Speaker 1: I love that so much, and it's so true, particularly
Speaker 1: in lockdown, which I'm sure seems in some ways similar
Speaker 1: to you guys being quite isolated in one property together.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of things that feel really artificial,
Speaker 1: like putting LIPSIIC on for each other after fourteen years
Speaker 1: or whatever. But it's only awkward if you make it awkward.
Speaker 1: And it's those little artificial rituals when you have nothing
Speaker 1: else to pin a change in dynamic on, that really
Speaker 1: make a difference. I mean, we've worked together and lived
Speaker 1: together and have been doing that for like six years,
Speaker 1: but two pretty much in lockdown. So if I didn't
Speaker 1: have those little rituals, like we would literally just be
Speaker 1: business partners that are housemates, which is not great.
Speaker 2: Exactly do you listen to Esther Perrell? Are you obsessed
Speaker 2: with Esther Perrell?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Oh god, oh my god, Oh my god. Please, it's
Speaker 2: going to change my life, like actually change your life.
Speaker 2: And I mean maybe not. Let's maybe we'll revisit this
Speaker 2: and you can tell me whether she did or not.
Speaker 2: But just she's this incredible communicator, and she's she's an
Speaker 2: expert in erotic intelligence as opposed to emotional intelligence. She's
Speaker 2: a she's a psychoanalyst who deals in relationships and her
Speaker 2: I mean, I won't do her justice by describing her,
Speaker 2: but what you just said, I think she would echo
Speaker 2: in some of the things that she says around establishing
Speaker 2: those kind of things that make your relationship more than
Speaker 2: a friendship and housemates and business partners, I mean working together.
Speaker 2: I find that so fascinating. And how you manage to
Speaker 2: keep thee the warm and fuzzies so interesting. But please, yeah,
Speaker 2: whole series on that. Oh my god, you should. I'll
Speaker 2: interview you on to Survive. You're married.
Speaker 1: And we mostly I'm not really sure. Let's ask the
Speaker 1: other guest for feedback.
Speaker 2: That's what I wanted to say when you just asked
Speaker 2: me the last question. I don't know. Skip forward ten years.
Speaker 2: I'll let you know how we did.
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, well, second last question? What are three interesting
Speaker 1: things about you that don't normally come up in conversation? Which,
Speaker 1: if Jack were here, I would ask him because they're
Speaker 1: all those little weird things that you do around the
Speaker 1: house that like only someone who lives with you would know.
Speaker 1: But quirky, like a weirder the better.
Speaker 2: Okay, quirky? Okay. I loved skateboarding when I was little,
Speaker 2: and like just want people to know that generally that
Speaker 2: I was a skateboarder.
Speaker 1: But do you know it's an Olympic sport now you
Speaker 1: can actually go to Paris in twenty twenty. Wait, what
Speaker 1: is it?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: I couldn't. I was never good like but it was
Speaker 2: just a you know, I quite liked it. I would
Speaker 2: never beat the Olympics. But weirdly like I did a
Speaker 2: I did a photo shoot recently and they were like,
Speaker 2: we want you to play with your kids. It's like, well,
Speaker 2: can I skateboard? And it was this childhood dream coming true?
Speaker 2: What else? I cannot stay still to music like I'm
Speaker 2: I must dance if there's a beat, it's just in
Speaker 2: me and and I think it will be with me
Speaker 2: till death. And this fit random and not really the
Speaker 2: brief that you just gave me. But I am stewing
Speaker 2: on this trend of vulnerability, and I think I want
Speaker 2: to push back on it. I think it might be overrated.
Speaker 2: Is that something that that's that's what it is now?
Speaker 2: I knowation, but I know I'm I'm I'm working on it.
Speaker 2: I'm kind of getting the words around it. But I
Speaker 2: feel like this inverted vulnerability, which we're all being, you know,
Speaker 2: which is being celebrated at the moment, I feel like
Speaker 2: I want to push back and ask whether that's exactly
Speaker 2: what we need right now? So that's do we need
Speaker 2: to go there? Or can I just say that that's
Speaker 2: one of the interesting.
Speaker 1: But I think that's fascinating. Is it because of the time,
Speaker 1: Like do you mean that in the context of right
Speaker 1: now or do you mean in general? Like if there
Speaker 1: wasn't a pandemic, would you still think that it wasn't
Speaker 1: the right time?
Speaker 2: I feel, well, I can't separate the two because I
Speaker 2: feel like I've kind of been shaped by crisis through
Speaker 2: my experience recently of drought and then gone into COVID,
Speaker 2: and so I think as a result, there's more talk
Speaker 2: about like you know, I'm consuming all the podcasts that
Speaker 2: everybody else is, and I think what happens is the
Speaker 2: you know, a word trends and then you hear it
Speaker 2: a lot, and I just am wondering whether in certain
Speaker 2: contexts I think it's misused. Like sometimes I think there's
Speaker 2: a there's a lack of clarity between honesty and vulnerability,
Speaker 2: and I probably lean towards the always valuing honesty, but
Speaker 2: people in the bush value stoicism and strength, and sometimes
Speaker 2: that is absolutely what's needed for survival and maybe at
Speaker 2: a cost. But I didn't really I'm not really ready
Speaker 2: to articulate exactly how I feel, but it's just been
Speaker 2: I don't listening to it going. I think I might
Speaker 2: think that vulnerability is over.
Speaker 1: No, I really appreciate that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think that's fascinating because I think it does deny
Speaker 1: the role for stoicism.
Speaker 3: Do you think it does?
Speaker 1: I think, I think sometimes, I think I definitely, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I agree that in particularly in times that
Speaker 1: are not clearly delineated, that there's an ending, like a
Speaker 1: drought that could be six years long, vulnerability at all costs,
Speaker 1: since say year one might make you two incredibly difficult
Speaker 1: for you to pull yourself back from that very vulnerable
Speaker 1: place to just cope, and I think to just sometimes, Yeah,
Speaker 1: sometimes the coping mechanism that's required of you in certain
Speaker 1: situations really does not allow for vulnerability, like there is
Speaker 1: no room for that expression, and so encouraging people to
Speaker 1: do it when maybe it's going to let them unravel completely. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think there's sometimes a place where it's not the
Speaker 1: only way forward.
Speaker 2: And I also feel like maybe, and maybe it's my
Speaker 2: inferior understanding of what people mean when they talk about this,
Speaker 2: but I sometimes think it's too navel gazing, it's too
Speaker 2: self it's not enough about others and about service to others,
Speaker 2: and that kind of like there's a great self reliance
Speaker 2: in rural Australia that I just admire so much. I
Speaker 2: don't have it. It's something I I think you might
Speaker 2: only get after a lifetime here, and I observe it
Speaker 2: in other people and I just think, God, that's remarkable,
Speaker 2: and that in some ways they get to the self
Speaker 2: reliance like solving their own problems and getting shit done.
Speaker 2: I don't know that they would if their first instinct
Speaker 2: was to be open to vulnerability. And I do think
Speaker 2: that they can get to contentment and a type of
Speaker 2: happiness and a type of success without necessarily dwelling in
Speaker 2: self and in their vulnerable site.
Speaker 3: So not sure.
Speaker 2: I don't want anybody to quote me because I'm still
Speaker 2: working on.
Speaker 1: It, but planing the seed now. Report No, but I
Speaker 1: really like that both of my parents we grew up
Speaker 1: in remote not super remote, but rural communities, and also
Speaker 1: sometimes get quite not challenged, but just like fascinated by
Speaker 1: the way our generation has become very self reflective, and
Speaker 1: like there are times when vulnerability around mental health and
Speaker 1: postnatal depression or PEA costs or issues that need to
Speaker 1: be destigmatized and conversationalized. That's really important. But there's a
Speaker 1: lot of and this is probably the thing that I
Speaker 1: am challenged by, not vulnerability in itself, but the way
Speaker 1: that things become bandwagoned like vulnerability authenticity. That's where I
Speaker 1: get like.
Speaker 2: Same here, it's the recipe for vulnerability, like vulnerability equals whatever.
Speaker 2: That recipe is what I'm challenged by, not the concept
Speaker 2: in itself, because God, but yeah, that's what I'm stewing on,
Speaker 2: Like I just want to go, oh, I think we
Speaker 2: might need to take a pause on this for a secon.
Speaker 1: You know what mine is. It's the relationship between insert
Speaker 1: here like vulnerability or openness or vocal of your descent.
Speaker 1: Also fits in that those brackets equals enlightened. It's the
Speaker 1: like automatic relationship between you. If you do that, you're
Speaker 1: really enlightened and intel leigon and superior. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe what if some people don't feel vulnerable? Like sometimes
Speaker 1: I ask what someone's in ATA is and they're like,
Speaker 1: I'm not really I've not really experienced imposter syndrome. And
Speaker 1: it feels abrupt because you're like, what, you don't have
Speaker 1: a breakdown all the time, I when we've associated that
Speaker 1: with enlightenment, So are you like unemotional with a hard shell?
Speaker 1: Some people don't have it.
Speaker 2: I think we now understand that to be normal. It's
Speaker 2: so funny that you say that, because I went on
Speaker 2: lady startups with mea Friedman, and one of the questions was,
Speaker 2: you know I always ask people what their peak was,
Speaker 2: or what their trough was or whatever. Anyway, my answer
Speaker 2: was I'm not prone to troughs. And I went on,
Speaker 2: I don't know what else I said, But my sister, well,
Speaker 2: my sister says said to me the other day, do
Speaker 2: you think me is still stewing on the fact that
Speaker 2: you said about prone to trots? Like that was the
Speaker 2: most instansitive thing. I was like, what do you like?
Speaker 3: I just thought it was.
Speaker 2: It's true I find the daily grind, like I mean,
Speaker 2: I have challenges, but it's they're not I. I'm not
Speaker 2: sobody prone to trops. And maybe that's why this vulnerability
Speaker 2: retric is not resonating quite like it should with me.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I certainly hope I can get to enlightenment
Speaker 2: without going through the you know, wading through the mad
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So yeah, maybe you're right
Speaker 2: that that's but anyway, look, I don't As I said,
Speaker 2: I'm still developing my consciousness about it, but I do
Speaker 2: think we do the bandwagging. Actually, maybe that's the bigger
Speaker 2: problem that I kind of resist anything that gets kind
Speaker 2: of wrapped up in a in a parcel and present
Speaker 2: it to me as fact and or as like this
Speaker 2: new version of truth and it's everywhere, and I just
Speaker 2: want to I don't know, I just want to kind
Speaker 2: of mute it every now and again.
Speaker 1: I still haven't seen Avatar for that exact reason, because
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's the bandwagon.
Speaker 2: Don't even know what that is? What is it?
Speaker 1: A movie that won all these Oscars, But because it
Speaker 1: got so when it came out, I was like, nah,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: I never read the Da Vinci Co and that was
Speaker 2: when I was in an age when it was age
Speaker 2: appropriate to read it. It was so big. I'm like, no, sorry,
Speaker 2: not so mean, I can't do it. I've never read
Speaker 2: what is it?
Speaker 1: Shades of Gray as a result, and Hunger Games. Haven't
Speaker 1: watch Hunger Games because of that. We're the same. Do
Speaker 1: you know what My big one is though about bandwagoning
Speaker 1: is controversy, Like it really grinds on me. And it
Speaker 1: even grinds on me to even say this, because by
Speaker 1: saying that I disagree with it, I'm getting on the
Speaker 1: disagreement bandwagon. But I find it very challenging that at
Speaker 1: the moment, if you're in agreeance or you're non confrontational,
Speaker 1: then it's like, oh, she's not an empowered woman because
Speaker 1: she just agrees with everything. Like I don't like controversy.
Speaker 1: I don't like to disagree with everything that I see
Speaker 1: on social media. And I so respect and admire and
Speaker 1: I have had many people on this podcast whose voices
Speaker 1: have created meaningful change because they're willing to have a
Speaker 1: hard conversation. But I think sometimes people just want to
Speaker 1: have a conflict, They just want to have an oppositional
Speaker 1: conversation because it's debate. And I'm like, you don't have
Speaker 1: to debate everything, Like it's okay to just say that
Speaker 1: whether it's nice outside and not everyone to go, oh,
Speaker 1: this is windy. Are you exercising your freedom of expression
Speaker 1: about the fact that it's windy? Is it really windy
Speaker 1: or is it breezy? Like let's use the technical tip.
Speaker 1: You know, there's like a debate about everything.
Speaker 2: Do you know what else? I wonder what your opinion
Speaker 2: on this? Do you change your social media profiles for
Speaker 2: various like seasonal moments or like causes. Like, so, I've
Speaker 2: got this thing that I won't ever change my profile
Speaker 2: to show my support for something, regardless of how much
Speaker 2: I believe in it, because first of all, I think
Speaker 2: it doesn't do that much, but even if it did,
Speaker 2: I just don't want to miss it one day and like, oops,
Speaker 2: I forgot to change my profile and then people think
Speaker 2: I don't support it, and like I miss a day
Speaker 2: and a trend, and then I'm a naysayer and I
Speaker 2: don't want to be. So I've like avoided that completely,
Speaker 2: quite deliberately, And I wonder whether anybody else shares my
Speaker 2: fear those like filters that come over to show your
Speaker 2: support for various world moments or causes.
Speaker 1: I think I've again been quite similar, And I think
Speaker 1: it's what we were talking about this before we started recording,
Speaker 1: because our brands are quite similar in that the broader
Speaker 1: hour appeal and the more communities we can engage, the better.
Speaker 1: So being not too strongly aligned with one thing or
Speaker 1: the other, Otherwise you have to align with everything. I
Speaker 1: would have literally a multicolored popopiature every single day if
Speaker 1: I tried to support every cause that I care about.
Speaker 1: There's so many that. Yeah, I try to be quite
Speaker 1: neutral in as many things as I can be.
Speaker 2: And that's like the outward facing, like it's a virtue signal.
Speaker 2: Really like that outwood facing. Yes, I do support it,
Speaker 2: like like I will support them in my own way,
Speaker 2: not necessarily with a filter. But it is one of
Speaker 2: those like when everybody's filter is changing, You're like.
Speaker 1: Back, I know it's like, are you reading into my
Speaker 1: omission to change? Like this is so hard I'm making
Speaker 1: a statement either worry. Yes, it's a hard world to
Speaker 1: exist in.
Speaker 2: I know it's a problem. It's a problem, it's a.
Speaker 1: Real But I also I also really care about preserving
Speaker 1: the ability to have people from both sides of a
Speaker 1: discussion on the show. So I almost feel kind of
Speaker 1: like sometimes a media outlet in that I want to
Speaker 1: keep the discussion. Yeah, I need to be a Switzerland
Speaker 1: because I want to help. Yeah, I want to give
Speaker 1: a voice to so many different opinions that I never
Speaker 1: want to be too aligned to one thing or the other.
Speaker 1: I'd like to I mean there are obviously causes I
Speaker 1: really care about, but if they're really like binary or oppositional,
Speaker 1: I try to just yeah, I'm very Switzerland.
Speaker 2: Do you know there's such value in that. Like I'm
Speaker 2: going to reference me for even twice in this interview.
Speaker 2: But after Trump got elected, she did this series called
Speaker 2: burst My Bubble or something Burst me as Bubble, and
Speaker 2: she actively because she was so shocked that Trump got
Speaker 2: in and she was like, in my world, that just
Speaker 2: couldn't have happened, Like, in no way was that a
Speaker 2: foreseeable outcome, So what the hell is wrong with what
Speaker 2: I'm consuming and who I'm talking? Like I must be
Speaker 2: in such an echo chamber, which like like I could
Speaker 2: see from where I live, absolutely so many people live
Speaker 2: in that echo chamber. There's a much more diverse voice
Speaker 2: that doesn't get heard, I think. But she then went
Speaker 2: out and actively sought interviews with conservatives to try and
Speaker 2: burst her and I really enjoyed the conversations because they
Speaker 2: were challenging but genuine like seeking information rather than kind
Speaker 2: of criticizing. And I don't know whether I listened to
Speaker 2: them all, but it was just a good exercise because
Speaker 2: so often I think, you know, especially in your role,
Speaker 2: like as a podcast host or a media or a
Speaker 2: content creator. You often you know you have to choose
Speaker 2: a lane, and then, God, a lane is limiting, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Like let's get multiple voices in the lane and bounce
Speaker 2: off each other because life is so much more interesting
Speaker 2: if we do.
Speaker 1: And also people then commit you to that lane, like
Speaker 1: you're siloed in that lane forever and you can never
Speaker 1: change your mind. And I had Sophie Keisha on the
Speaker 1: podcast a couple of weeks ago, and she was so
Speaker 1: interesting about like her dominant theme was the ability to
Speaker 1: have a change of mind in anything, because she's like,
Speaker 1: I was married with two kids and I'm now with
Speaker 1: a woman and I don't really need to label that
Speaker 1: or talk much about it. I just changed my mind.
Speaker 1: But everyone's like, oh, no, you are either now gay
Speaker 1: or by and like, let's make sure that we know
Speaker 1: exactly where you stand. She's like, I don't know where
Speaker 1: I stand, so why does everyone else need to decide that.
Speaker 1: I'm like yeah, and she's like, I can never say
Speaker 1: that I'll never be with a man again, Like it's
Speaker 1: just a not a big deal. I'm just changing my
Speaker 1: mind as I go and I'm like, oh, more of that.
Speaker 2: And yet more of politicians being allowed to change their minds.
Speaker 2: That's the like I love when somebody says in life,
Speaker 2: like when you ask a question of somebody and they
Speaker 2: say to you, I don't know. Yeah, I answers to that,
Speaker 2: like immediately I like them. I could just think, oh, God,
Speaker 2: don't tell me you know if you don't know. So
Speaker 2: you telling me you don't know, it makes me respect
Speaker 2: you even more. I just wish that that carried into
Speaker 2: our decision makers because of course they don't know everything.
Speaker 2: Of course they're going to change their mind the more
Speaker 2: informed they've become, and like I think, on so many
Speaker 2: of our pressing issues, if they were allowed to, if
Speaker 2: we were a bit more fluid, if the media were
Speaker 2: a bit more fluid, Like I don't know anyway, they're
Speaker 2: not going to solve the problems here, But it all
Speaker 2: starts with me stewing non vulnerability.
Speaker 1: That was a fabulous tangent. I enjoy that so much. Well,
Speaker 1: very last question, what is your favorite quote? If you
Speaker 1: have one?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yes, okay, I thought we were done, So this
Speaker 2: is I've got I've got a I'm thinking of a
Speaker 2: couple because you know, What came to mind is you've
Speaker 2: got to drink the froth to get the beer, which
Speaker 2: is slim dusty, But I don't.
Speaker 1: Want to end on it.
Speaker 2: There's a what can I give you two? Then possible
Speaker 2: to give you two? Absolutely, So you've got to drink
Speaker 2: the froth to get the beer by slim Dusty but
Speaker 2: also mar McKillop. So it's a Catholic quote. Bear with me,
Speaker 2: everybody who already wants to roll their eyes, but do
Speaker 2: everything you can with the means that you're disposable and
Speaker 2: calmly leave the rest to God. And I really carry
Speaker 2: that with me, that idea that do what you can,
Speaker 2: but leave the rest to whoever you know, whoever that
Speaker 2: greater being is for you. That means a lot to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that one. Like control what you can,
Speaker 1: but there's a lot that you can't. And I think
Speaker 1: we spend a good eighty to ninety percent of our
Speaker 1: time worrying about things that worry isn't going to make
Speaker 1: a difference, and they're not reserving enough for the things
Speaker 1: in our life where our worrying or concern is going
Speaker 1: to make an actual difference to our lives.
Speaker 2: I love that and I think it calls on us
Speaker 2: to do like to so do what you can with
Speaker 2: what you've got, like have an impact, be significant, and
Speaker 2: then beyond that, you know, leave it, leave it to
Speaker 2: what will come. And for me, I think I do
Speaker 2: believe in I suppose the somethings just aren't for us
Speaker 2: to decide, and having a piece with that is comforting
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Well, Grace, Oh my gosh, this was one of
Speaker 1: the best conversations I've had in a long time. I've
Speaker 1: so enjoyed it and I can't wait until the world
Speaker 1: opens up again so I can come and visit. I
Speaker 1: would love to come and visit you and Warren, And
Speaker 1: oh my god, do you want to road trip? Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Stay in the books.
Speaker 1: I would love to. You know, there's an episode every
Speaker 1: week called Yays of Our Lives which is meant to
Speaker 1: be on the road in the neighborhood, going to visit town.
Speaker 1: So I did a trip through Gippsland, run down to
Speaker 1: Phillip Island and just visited like charities or small businesses
Speaker 1: and did little profiles. And I haven't obviously been able
Speaker 1: to do that. It started at the start of the year,
Speaker 1: intended to be on the road and hasn't really been
Speaker 1: on the road, but absolutely.
Speaker 2: And because one of the things that I heard, like
Speaker 2: as I was listening to your other episodes, I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 2: where have you not been? Like in every episode you
Speaker 2: just conveniently slip in, Yes, I was once in like that,
Speaker 2: coren the world. You must be really feeling the confines
Speaker 2: of COVID. You've done a lot in your life.
Speaker 1: So much, I think because travel has always been, in
Speaker 1: my mind, the best way for me to stretch my brain.
Speaker 1: And I've always loved languages, so that's always been like
Speaker 1: a recurring theme. The quite I like is once your
Speaker 1: mind is stretched to new dimensions by a new experience,
Speaker 1: it can never go back to its old dimensions. And
Speaker 1: I think every time I go overseas and see a
Speaker 1: different way to live, and let's to say with even
Speaker 1: going into remote communities, seeing like we've spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time in the Northern Territory and just seeing different
Speaker 1: ways of considering time or family or connection, and you
Speaker 1: can't ever unsee those things. And the more you're exposed
Speaker 1: to them, you don't have to agree with them or
Speaker 1: ever want to emulate that in your life. But travel
Speaker 1: has always been my way to open up the world,
Speaker 1: and so it has felt very difficult. I think almost
Speaker 1: because I never hesitated to like eat two minute noodles
Speaker 1: for three years so I could go on a trip.
Speaker 1: I almost feel less constrained because I don't feel like
Speaker 1: I was waiting until the perfect time and never traveled.
Speaker 1: But I also because I'm so used to consolidating myself
Speaker 1: that way, I feel a bit stagnant because I'm like,
Speaker 1: I haven't had distance from my own crap for so long.
Speaker 3: Question what language is? Oh?
Speaker 1: So French is the main one. I did part of
Speaker 1: my law degree in French, which was so stupid but
Speaker 1: also the best. I studied French, French, Japanese, and Chinese
Speaker 1: until the end of UNI, and then Italian and Spanish
Speaker 1: just from French because they're so similar and having been
Speaker 1: to Italian and Spanish speaking countries you can pick it
Speaker 1: up quite quickly. And then I'm just so fascinated by
Speaker 1: languages that every time we go somewhere, so I learn
Speaker 1: like very very basic. So when we went to Russia,
Speaker 1: I learned like conversational, very basic Russian, and same with Arabic,
Speaker 1: like to pull together even just like be able to
Speaker 1: say hello and thank you and understand where grammar sits like.
Speaker 1: That's part of traveling for me is figuring out the
Speaker 1: way that they yes, yeah.
Speaker 2: The same here when I should have said that in
Speaker 2: play that actually weirdly like, learning Spanish is one of
Speaker 2: my escapes from motherhood. And it's the greatest joy if
Speaker 2: you get the chance to kind of go and have
Speaker 2: a little practice with somebody in some like that kind
Speaker 2: of those lovely connections that open up if you bother
Speaker 2: to try to speak another language in you know, like
Speaker 2: just learning one or two words, and the connection you
Speaker 2: have with somebody if you do pick those little things
Speaker 2: up along the way. God, it's such a joy. It's
Speaker 2: one of the greatest joys in life.
Speaker 1: I think, have you kept it up?
Speaker 2: I don't have five languages under my belt.
Speaker 1: Oh, I just can say, like I can read a
Speaker 1: menu in a few languages, basically exactly.
Speaker 2: What I'm most crucial, do you know what? At the
Speaker 2: daycare the other day, at my local daycare, there's a
Speaker 2: lady from Columbia there and I've only just discovered it. Nice.
Speaker 2: Every day I just stalk her to try and like
Speaker 2: say hello and practice. But no, I'm pretty terrible these days.
Speaker 1: It's funny though. I'm sure it comes back to you
Speaker 1: as soon as you like see someone, and then it
Speaker 1: all starts rushing back when you start talking. It's fascinating.
Speaker 1: The brain is so interesting. Like I can't remember my
Speaker 1: name or my age half the time.
Speaker 2: But you can remember a song from nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 1: All of the phone numbers before, like my primary school
Speaker 1: phone number list, I know them all off by heart.
Speaker 1: But I don't know my partner's number now. It's like
Speaker 1: why I don't know what I did yesterday? Like it's crazy, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know. Oh well, Grace, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: this wonderful chat. I'm so excited to see the pitching
Speaker 1: competition come to life and everything that buy from the
Speaker 1: Bush continues to do.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me things so fun.
Speaker 1: I loved by from the Bush before I knew much
Speaker 1: about Grace herself, but I love it even more now.
Speaker 1: What a literally life changing movement for so many started
Speaker 1: by just one determined woman in her kitchen. Loss of
Speaker 1: direction really can lead to discovering your ya, so never
Speaker 1: forget you can find purpose in places you would never
Speaker 1: have expected. If you enjoyed, please support Grace and shower
Speaker 1: her with love from the neighborhood, sharing the episode and
Speaker 1: tagging buy from the Bush or hit up the marketplace
Speaker 1: yourself to support our outback business owners, especially as the
Speaker 1: festive season approaches. If you're listening in and have a
Speaker 1: business idea, you might qualify for the Big Break Pitching competition,
Speaker 1: so the details for that are in the bio two.
Speaker 1: Grace goes into a lot more practical detail about community
Speaker 1: building and particularly focuses on social media in our PayPal
Speaker 1: Business boot Camp webinar that I mentioned from a few
Speaker 1: weeks ago. The full video is now available for you
Speaker 1: to rewatch, and I'll pop that link in the show
Speaker 1: notes too. I hope you're all having a wonderful week
Speaker 1: and are seizing your yay
Speaker 3: M huggin huge n Hugen