WEBVTT - Ariana Retreats & Are Your Friends Anchors Or Sails? 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:06.080 Hello, and welcome out loud as to mom and me, 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:08.479 are out Loud, it's what women are actually talking about 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.080 on Monday, the third of August. And my name is 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:14.800 hollywayen Wright, and I'm em Vernon and I'm Amelia Last 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:18.759 and here's what's made our agenda for today. She's one 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:22.520 of the world's most famous trad wives, but she says 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:24.600 she's actually the absolute opposite. 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:28.760 Plus an Alista has announced her taking a break from 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:33.200 public facing work after facing endless scrutiny. 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:36.239 And are you a sale or an anchor? This new 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:39.240 theory has me thinking about how in some relationships I'm 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:41.320 one and in some relationships I'm the other. 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.920 But first, in case you missed it, So, just when 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:48.000 we were sitting down to plan this show, the news 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:50.920 came through that Delta Guldrum had just closed the Commonwealth 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:54.400 Games in Glasgow. There was the Commonwealth Games. This led 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:59.240 some people to say that and I'm very wary about 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:01.760 this because remember what happened recently when we did some 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:06.320 sports reporting here on out loud. Lest even said Ozzie's don't. 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:08.759 Really like very much, which was a heart take. 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.119 The out Loud has got really upset. But the thing 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:14.840 is is We've been talking a lot lately about the 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:17.160 World Cup and various things, but it is true that 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:21.000 it is not really we have not really gone. We 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.520 should talk about the Commonwealth Games. Why why is that? 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:25.679 Okay? Is part of it that it wasn't meant to 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:26.760 happen or something? 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:29.360 Yes, so a little bit of context first of all, 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:33.600 ozzi or because we smashed we didn't The Commonwealth Games 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:37.039 hasn't just finished. We smashed it on then we won. 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:40.840 We won the Commonwealth Games m with seventy gold medals. 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:43.399 The closest behind us were England with twenty nine. 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.320 So that's a big, huge We don't even need to 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:47.840 do that thing we do at the Olympics with the 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:51.000 per capita medal tally and this one we're just on top. 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:54.880 Just England's very Commonwealth's. 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:58.560 They they are, one fact, say they were the responsible 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:04.760 for the whole theme and so yeah, but this was 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:07.600 the Games. Remember that was meant to be in Victoria. 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:09.520 There was a big. 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:13.200 Bad memory hold in the culture. 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:15.640 Yes, right, is that there was meant to be not 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:18.720 just in Melbourne but in several regional cities in Victoria. 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:21.920 It was a very ambitious statewide project and it was 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:22.800 meant to be there. 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:26.799 And then remember we were very excited because we were like, oh, 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:30.040 Commonwealth Games and then Brisbane's getting the Olympics after that, 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:30.520 and we. 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:32.880 Were all very exports world sport, right. But in twenty 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.480 twenty three, the then premiere Dan Andrews went, actually, no, 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:39.040 that's so wild that he just said, we're. 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:39.520 Not doing that. 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:41.360 No, no one had done that, I don't think, and 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:43.560 they just were like nah. And then for a while 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:45.480 it looked like the Gold Coast might take it, and 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:46.160 then they. 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:48.040 Were like we got too much going on. 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:50.200 They didn't get any support from the federal government, so 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.480 basically everyone was just passing around the common. 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:54.920 It falls to Scotland. 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.079 Yeah, so Glasgow picked up the potato and you know what, 0:02:58.560 --> 0:02:59.639 we'll make chips with this. 0:02:59.880 --> 0:03:02.320 I feel like Victoria in this scenario is like, you 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:05.040 know how like in every friendship group there's someone who 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:07.640 is the most flaky and just kind of counsels at 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:09.400 the last minute when you've bought a group dinner at 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:11.400 a particularly nice restaurant. 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:14.120 One and so somebody else might step in as Glasgow 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:16.400 did and said okay, we'll do it, but not at 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:18.360 that really nice restaurant. We're going to do it at 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:19.519 the Byo. 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:21.520 Which just seems so Scottish of them, right. 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.360 I don't say that in any way to critique Glasgow, 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:26.120 but the whole thing is that they said we're going 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:27.160 to do it, but cut price. 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:28.119 I love it, yep. 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.360 So a reduced number of events and a new model 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:33.640 with a reduced number of events, a shorter period of 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:36.360 time and basically with the fewer bells. It's so great. 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:38.600 Glasgow like stepping up like that. 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:41.680 Because they'd done it back in I think twenty thirteen, 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:44.680 and so they had the infrastructure in place and they 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:46.839 were like, we can do it. But given that we're 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:48.040 on a time just. 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:49.760 Like, yeah, maybe we're not going to put up a 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:53.000 lot of decorations. Maybe there'll be like a set menu 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:55.280 for the table as opposed to ordering the car. 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.800 It was very much like that. Still, so Channel seven 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:00.960 had the rights and they had it on stream. You 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:02.680 could do catch up as well, because obviously the time 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.720 difference has been a problem, but still take up hasn't 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:06.360 been huge. 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:09.839 That's because trying to watch it on Channel seven as 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.080 I did, it was very complicated. 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:12.960 You couldn't. 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:14.800 I just wanted to watch them swimming and maybe a 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:18.000 little bit of weightlifting to get some inspos from my midlife. 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:19.520 Weightlifting weight program. 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:24.120 I will say I really loved how the Power Games 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:28.520 and the non Power Games events were mixed up. 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:30.080 Together, all happening at once. 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:33.200 Which was awesome because I was watching it with kids 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:35.839 and it was just like they're all in there together, 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:38.520 and I just thought it was a great idea to 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:40.839 do that. I don't know if that was a Glasgow innovation. 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:42.719 I think it was, and I think that's a model 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.880 that would should be repeated. So in the end, it's 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:47.800 been very good for Australian that we've won lots, but 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:50.080 the ratings were down quite considerably. 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:53.200 Actually feel very sad and very un Australian and I 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:54.440 think we should repent. 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:55.280 We should repair. 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:59.360 Does that mean that next time you're actually gonna watch one. 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.760 Particularly for the swimmers, because obviously we always do really 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:04.880 well in the swimming and swimmers, unlike the footballers who 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:06.599 we all just celebrated at the World Cup, they don't 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:08.560 get to do it every week on a world stage 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:11.880 and get paid millions and millions of dollars like Ronaldo 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:15.960 and Messy and Ballyund and all those guys. So anyway, 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:20.520 apologies to the Commonwealth Games for not bringing you updates. 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:23.400 I'm sorry, but the most important thing, Delta smashed it. 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:25.200 There you go, did she? Okay? Good? 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:29.560 Good, good love that Ariana Grande is taking a break. 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:32.919 In an exclusive with People magazine, a representative from her 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:36.279 team put out a statement saying Ariana will be taking 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.440 a step back from visibility after she completes the Eternal 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.839 Sunshine Tour. She looks forward to finishing the tour and 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:45.600 ending it on a high note, both healthily and happily, 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:48.760 and then taking a much deserved break from public facing 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:53.320 work and appearances, which has led to endless ongoing public scrutiny. 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:56.320 So a few days before this statement was made, Ariana 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:58.760 released a music video to her song Petal. 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:01.200 Have you watched the music video? I have watched it. 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:02.400 I really like It's a very. 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.839 Like artistic storytelling music video. She's portrayed as a woman 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.640 who's going to all of these acting auditions and in 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:11.279 the men that she's auditioning for keep rejecting her, and 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:14.359 they were telling her we want the old Ariana, and 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:16.120 then she gets a chainsaw and murder them. 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:17.800 It made me clutch my pearls. 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:23.600 A bit gonna murdering or the thinness the murdering very violent. 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:26.000 So on this video, when you look on YouTube, the 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:29.599 most popular comments have nothing to do with the video. Instead, 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:32.520 they read, it's not about wanting the old Ariana back, 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.239 it's about wanting her to be healthy. At this point, 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.480 I'm judging her team, friends and family. This is insane. 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:40.440 Who's going to tell her we miss her being healthy 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:42.880 looking and not the old music. We're living in a 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:47.840 black mirror episode. So that's in reference to her weight. 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.640 Obviously, Yes, we talked about this on I think a 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.360 subs episode with me, didn't we a while ago when 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.520 she when the tour first started and the visuals were 0:06:56.640 --> 0:07:00.280 being released from the tour. It's not really a question 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:02.360 of whether or not she looks very very thin. She 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.760 looks very very thin. The debate that erupted is whether 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.360 or not it was okay to kind of say that, 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:12.600 And the discussion that we had at the time was 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:16.000 whether it was a help My point was maybe it's not. 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:18.320 Maybe it's okay to say that, but is it helpful 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:20.320 to say that, Like, what are we supposed to do 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:23.040 with that? Or is it just an excuse to sit 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:26.360 around and say shit about a woman's body. But the 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.640 sentiment that you've just described in cap in that comment 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.840 is one that was also made publicly, very recently after 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.720 the pedal video by people like Jamila Jamil and Charlie Howard, 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:39.520 who are both sort of body positive advocates. I guess 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:43.440 you could say just saying this is so grossly irresponsible 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:48.840 to be celebrating this this level of thinness, and I 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:50.920 guess in the question of what are we supposed to 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.360 do with that, the idea is maybe pressure her people 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:56.120 into doing what they've done. 0:07:56.360 --> 0:08:00.440 Yeah, which is taking her way from public facing roles. 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:05.080 The Eternal Sunshine tour finishes on the first of September. 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:07.120 I think she has a few more concerts, but there 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:10.000 have been things that she's completely canceled, Like she after 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:12.680 this tour, she was going back to Broadway to do 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:16.760 a show with Jonathan Bailey in London, and that's been canceled, 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.679 so she's not doing that anymore. But what was really 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:23.720 interesting is all the comments from her team about what's 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:26.640 going to be happening and her performing. There was another 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:30.040 source I told People magazine she performs a very physical 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:33.640 show and there's a lot of athleticism involved, she performs 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:37.680 healthily and successfully at a very high level night after night. 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.440 I think using the word healthily for all of these 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:45.800 sources from her team is very telling in what they 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:48.360 are also trying to address the scrutiny and what everyone 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:49.440 was saying about her body. 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:52.400 Has the tour been broadly a success? Because there's such 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:56.640 an interesting dynamic right now right between basically Taylor Swift 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.600 and every other artist is finding that it's impossible to 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:03.440 get bums on seats for their tours. Has her tour 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:04.720 been broadly a success? 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:07.080 Ther tour has been very successful. She isn't in like 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:10.240 the massive, biggest stadiums like a Taylor Swift, but it's 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:14.160 been very successful. And everything I've seen on TikTok, and 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.679 I don't know if this is my algorithm in particular, 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:21.079 are all clips of her tour and people very excited 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:23.440 to be there, praising her work, saying they're so glad 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:28.200 she's back on stage, even showing her running across stage 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:30.800 and showing that what her sources are saying that she 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:34.839 is performing really really well. And I think it's also 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:38.160 about everyone enjoying her old music and very excited for 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.360 her after wicked putting out new music, that there is 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.319 a huge part of a fan base that aren't talking 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:46.360 about her body in the way that other people are. 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.680 Yeah right, maybe not fans so much. What's interesting about 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:54.200 that statement to me is that it almost it's saying, look, 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:58.680 she's fine, but all of you talking about her is 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:00.920 what she needs to take a break. That's what the 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:03.959 work of saying Healthily twice is doing, and saying she's 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.959 not got any problems, but you are making problems for her. 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:12.440 Yes, that's exactly what they're saying. It's become the conversation 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:15.480 around her body has got to a pitch and a 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:19.960 level that she cannot be put in public like in 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.520 the way that this video, you know, the Pedal video 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:28.000 did without everybody just exploding about it. Charlie Howard, her comments, 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:31.400 for example, were, I think it's absolutely appalling from both 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:35.040 a moral and capitalistic standpoint to have released these videos 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.599 and an album when this person needs psychiatric help and hospitalization. 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:39.800 Who's Charlie Howard? 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:44.480 So she's a body positivity activist And Jamila Jamil said 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:47.840 something very similar. She said her team are thoroughly irresponsible 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.679 for not guiding her away from this deeply damaging image. 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:54.400 For her young fans to see so glamorized. It's so 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:57.560 interesting because and this is what we discussed last time, 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.440 is that there's an element of this kind of commentary 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:05.280 that I find very concerned, trolly, very much like we 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:07.160 want to talk about your body, but we want to 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:08.959 dress it up as a way that we're really really 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:11.920 worried about you. But then the flip side to that 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:16.280 argument is what Jamille is saying there, that it's irresponsible 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:22.320 to celebrate and idolize somebody so thin. Yeah, it's really 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:26.480 complicated because I wonder it's being sort of heralded a 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:28.640 little bit, the fact that she her team have released 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.200 this statement saying she's stepping back. It's being sort of 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.160 heralded as a good thing by those in that we're 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.840 worried about her camp, right? Is that good? She's going 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.160 to get the help she needs. But the language of 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:41.840 the statement, as you've just pointed out, Amelia, is more like, 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.719 you guys have made us do this, and can you 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:48.200 bully someone into getting help? And inverted commas experts would 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:48.959 say no, you can't. 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.360 Well, and the other thing to mention here is that 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:54.440 the message of the pedal video, there's a lot of 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:58.200 anger in that video. Obviously she literally gets out the chainsaw. 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:01.320 But I think that one message you can take from 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:04.240 that video is that she is angry at her fans, 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:08.800 or at least the public generally, because as mentioned, there's 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:12.160 a moment in the video where these kind of entertainment 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.680 haunt shows say we want the old you, and she's 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.520 saying in that video, I've changed and you can't deal 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.360 with it, which is similar to what the statement is. 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.160 Yeah, she's I mean, she's made public statements in the past, 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:27.160 because the commentary about her body has been going on 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.800 for years obviously reached a sort of fever pitch around 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:33.960 Wicked and then again around this tour. But she's come 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:36.440 out before and said just stop it, stop talking about it. 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.880 It's not helpful, it's not healthy. It feels like the 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:44.560 discourse has just gotten has just overtaken that, as well as. 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:47.840 The timing of the statement, like knowing that the statement 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.880 has come out here in early August and the tour 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:54.199 finishes early September, so there's still a whole month of 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.520 her being in the public, and from the footages I've 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.880 seen of her tour so far, they also seem very 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.520 deeply emotional, like there's parts where she's like crying and 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:05.720 she's overcome with emotion and she's so happy to be 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:07.760 there and she can't believe so many people have come 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:11.120 to watch her. And I think this like it if 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:14.920 you are attending a concert between now until it ends, 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.719 I feel like you would feel really sad, Like it's 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:21.040 just going to be a very sad concert because of 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:23.120 knowing what's going to happen after, where she's going to 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:25.560 leave the spotlight and you won't see her again. So 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.560 I don't know if it's like her team using the 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:32.040 time we have left with her unquote left with her 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:35.280 as a way to kind of make people feel really 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:37.920 bad for having all of this public scrutiny about her. 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.319 And also, of course the concerts are always going to 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.840 be overlaid with emotion for her because of what she 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:47.720 and everyone who went to see her in Manchester went through. 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:52.320 And I think whenever we talk about Ariana Grande, it's 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.880 kind of strange to me that we don't always mention 0:13:56.200 --> 0:14:00.199 that enormous traumatic event that happened to her and her 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:04.040 fans yea, and how that must be informing that doesn't 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.199 just go away, the memory of what happened to her. 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:10.000 Then twenty seventeen, it was a terrorist attack on her 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:13.440 arena performance in Manchester that killed twenty two of her fans, 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:18.520 and then the following year her longtime boyfriend on off 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:22.520 boyfriend died of a drug overdose. She is like a 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:26.400 She's become a sort of symbol of resilience, a little 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.720 bit tragedy tinged, as many of the divas always are 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:31.400 in a way, you know, And when I say diva there, 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:33.840 I literally mean a singing diva, not a you know, 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.200 she's being a diva often are, and she has become 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:40.680 that sort of symbol. I just I find it so 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:44.560 interesting because objectively you can't look at her and think 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.360 she looks healthy. But then on the other hand, I 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.760 really push against the idea that we really know what's 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.720 going on with somebody and whether or not they have, 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:56.880 as Jamille is suggesting, as Charlie Howard is suggesting, a 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:59.680 really serious mental health condition. You can't diagnose that from 0:14:59.680 --> 0:14:59.960 the out. 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.240 But do you think that, and do you think that 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:04.720 the Jamila's and the Charlie's of the world are going 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:07.840 to feel like, okay, fine, A to your earlier point, Holly, 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.160 you've done what we asked you to do. All we 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:12.560 wanted you to do is take some time off, stop 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:16.440 making money off your pain, and go away for a bit. 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:17.960 I mean, do you think they feel vindicated. 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:21.000 I think they will feel vindicated because I think that, 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:25.200 as I say, the sort of the public service element 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:28.480 of this discussion. So interestingly, Jamala Jaimil said, how talking 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:30.240 about this is a bit of a trolley problem. You know, 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:33.280 the trolley The trolley dilemma is the idea that if 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:36.440 a runaway tram was running towards people and you could 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:38.000 pull a lever, that it would only hit one or 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:40.320 it would hit ten. Would you pull the lever right? 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.560 That's the idea of the trolley problem, And Jamila Jamil 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.200 says the shrinking pop star situation is something of a 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:48.520 trolley problem. If we comment on her body, we could 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.120 harm her mental health, which would be awful, and nobody 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:53.480 wants that. If we don't comment on her body, we 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.040 run the risk of normalizing that image to hundreds of 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.920 millions of teenage girls, kids, and even impressionable adults consuming her. 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:04.520 So I guess they would say that we've managed to 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:06.800 raise the discourse to a level where she had to 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.200 address it and it had to be addressed. A lot 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.720 of people have said, it's her team, this is so cynical. 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.440 They're making money from her. But that assumes a lot 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:16.960 of bad will and ill will on behalf of her family, 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:23.240 her team, her friends, which is probably unfairly placed. But 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:25.840 I think that yes, these commentators would see this as 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.920 a positive step to your point, though, em there's a 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:30.920 month to go between now and then, and I would 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:34.920 not want to be Ariana Grande with this much scrutiny 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:36.880 on every single thing you do at all. 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:41.080 It's curious timing for sure. After the break, are you 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:46.000 a sale or an anchor? John Cena is a delightful man. 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:48.320 You probably don't even know how you know him. He's 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:50.520 been in a few movies. He was in train Wreck, 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:55.320 he was a merman in Barbie. He had an illustrious 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.960 wrestling career. No one for an internet meme. You can't 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:01.000 see me bring you with anyone. 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:03.600 He's very into big action movies. 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:05.879 Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen him in a 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:07.760 movie except for Barbie, but I've seen him in a 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:08.400 million means. 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.800 He's got great energy. He just seems like a good dude. Anyway. 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.400 He was recently on Amy Poehler's Good Hang, and he 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:18.720 put forward a theory about how it's about the energy 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:20.359 you put out in the world and how you relate 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:22.520 to other people, and he said that everyone is either 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:25.359 an anchor or a sale. I'm going to play two 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:28.800 clips from their conversation. In the first clip, he's talking 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:32.399 about his hometown called West Newbury. It's a town in 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:34.720 New England, and that's a region in the US no 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:37.440 one for its straight talk. They don't sort of beat 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.160 around the bush there. And then in the second clip, 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.040 he's talking about his friendship with Paula Pell, who was 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:46.560 a comedian with whom he appeared in the movie Sisters. 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:49.920 Because my brothers are all hitting that like late forties, 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:53.440 approaching the half century now, and we all have wisdom 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:57.159 of like, man, it's kind of a shitty mindset if 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.160 somebody's like, hey, that's life and you're like, it's taken forever. 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:01.760 Like that. 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:05.480 Yeah, but that's also West Newbery totally. 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:09.480 And man, as beautiful as the landscape is, sometimes there's 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.040 a lot more anchors than sales over there. 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:14.440 I mean, what's so great about Paula What do you 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:15.160 like about her? 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:21.000 I like her, her perspective. I love her courage, man, Like, 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.320 I just like that energy. I like, again I say 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.520 anchors and sales, she's a sale, yeah, you know, like 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:32.520 always curious, always creative, off the wall. Yeah, I just know. 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.520 I know any idea is going to have like that whimsy, 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.000 that magic in it. Yeah, And I want to be 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:39.720 with those people. 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:42.159 So what I think is interesting here I think I 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:44.800 kind of disagree with John Seyer a little bit because 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:48.119 what Hayes seems to be saying is that anchors are 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.280 always bad. They're always dragging you down. I guess literally, 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:55.560 they're always negative and they're kind of curmudgeonally. And then 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:58.520 sales are just people you always want to be around 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.840 because they're always propelling you forward and encouraging you. But 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:04.440 I think it's a bit more complicated than that, because 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.200 I don't know a lot about boats. And I asked 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:09.359 you if you knew anything about sailing before this, and 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:11.880 you told me that you knew everything about sailing from 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:12.440 the Odyssey. 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:12.680 Yeah. 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:17.760 But my understanding is that boats require both anchors and 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:19.120 sales to function. 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:19.600 Yeah. 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:20.119 So true. 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:24.760 So I look this up and on AI and the 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.480 AI told me, so sail catches the wind embraces change 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:33.160 and move towards new horizons. Anchors hold firmly against storms, 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:35.639 provide safety and prevents drifting. 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.479 Did you type into AI what is an anchor and 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:40.720 what is a saiale? Because I think that's one of 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:43.000