Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome out loud as to mom and me,
Speaker 1: are out Loud, it's what women are actually talking about
Speaker 1: on Monday, the third of August. And my name is
Speaker 1: hollywayen Wright, and I'm em Vernon and I'm Amelia Last
Speaker 1: and here's what's made our agenda for today. She's one
Speaker 1: of the world's most famous trad wives, but she says
Speaker 1: she's actually the absolute opposite.
Speaker 2: Plus an Alista has announced her taking a break from
Speaker 2: public facing work after facing endless scrutiny.
Speaker 3: And are you a sale or an anchor? This new
Speaker 3: theory has me thinking about how in some relationships I'm
Speaker 3: one and in some relationships I'm the other.
Speaker 1: But first, in case you missed it, So, just when
Speaker 1: we were sitting down to plan this show, the news
Speaker 1: came through that Delta Guldrum had just closed the Commonwealth
Speaker 1: Games in Glasgow. There was the Commonwealth Games. This led
Speaker 1: some people to say that and I'm very wary about
Speaker 1: this because remember what happened recently when we did some
Speaker 1: sports reporting here on out loud. Lest even said Ozzie's don't.
Speaker 3: Really like very much, which was a heart take.
Speaker 1: The out Loud has got really upset. But the thing
Speaker 1: is is We've been talking a lot lately about the
Speaker 1: World Cup and various things, but it is true that
Speaker 1: it is not really we have not really gone. We
Speaker 1: should talk about the Commonwealth Games. Why why is that?
Speaker 3: Okay? Is part of it that it wasn't meant to
Speaker 3: happen or something?
Speaker 1: Yes, so a little bit of context first of all,
Speaker 1: ozzi or because we smashed we didn't The Commonwealth Games
Speaker 1: hasn't just finished. We smashed it on then we won.
Speaker 1: We won the Commonwealth Games m with seventy gold medals.
Speaker 1: The closest behind us were England with twenty nine.
Speaker 3: So that's a big, huge We don't even need to
Speaker 3: do that thing we do at the Olympics with the
Speaker 3: per capita medal tally and this one we're just on top.
Speaker 2: Just England's very Commonwealth's.
Speaker 1: They they are, one fact, say they were the responsible
Speaker 1: for the whole theme and so yeah, but this was
Speaker 1: the Games. Remember that was meant to be in Victoria.
Speaker 1: There was a big.
Speaker 3: Bad memory hold in the culture.
Speaker 1: Yes, right, is that there was meant to be not
Speaker 1: just in Melbourne but in several regional cities in Victoria.
Speaker 1: It was a very ambitious statewide project and it was
Speaker 1: meant to be there.
Speaker 2: And then remember we were very excited because we were like, oh,
Speaker 2: Commonwealth Games and then Brisbane's getting the Olympics after that,
Speaker 2: and we.
Speaker 1: Were all very exports world sport, right. But in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three, the then premiere Dan Andrews went, actually, no,
Speaker 1: that's so wild that he just said, we're.
Speaker 3: Not doing that.
Speaker 1: No, no one had done that, I don't think, and
Speaker 1: they just were like nah. And then for a while
Speaker 1: it looked like the Gold Coast might take it, and
Speaker 1: then they.
Speaker 3: Were like we got too much going on.
Speaker 1: They didn't get any support from the federal government, so
Speaker 1: basically everyone was just passing around the common.
Speaker 3: It falls to Scotland.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Glasgow picked up the potato and you know what,
Speaker 1: we'll make chips with this.
Speaker 3: I feel like Victoria in this scenario is like, you
Speaker 3: know how like in every friendship group there's someone who
Speaker 3: is the most flaky and just kind of counsels at
Speaker 3: the last minute when you've bought a group dinner at
Speaker 3: a particularly nice restaurant.
Speaker 1: One and so somebody else might step in as Glasgow
Speaker 1: did and said okay, we'll do it, but not at
Speaker 1: that really nice restaurant. We're going to do it at
Speaker 1: the Byo.
Speaker 3: Which just seems so Scottish of them, right.
Speaker 1: I don't say that in any way to critique Glasgow,
Speaker 1: but the whole thing is that they said we're going
Speaker 1: to do it, but cut price.
Speaker 3: I love it, yep.
Speaker 1: So a reduced number of events and a new model
Speaker 1: with a reduced number of events, a shorter period of
Speaker 1: time and basically with the fewer bells. It's so great.
Speaker 3: Glasgow like stepping up like that.
Speaker 1: Because they'd done it back in I think twenty thirteen,
Speaker 1: and so they had the infrastructure in place and they
Speaker 1: were like, we can do it. But given that we're
Speaker 1: on a time just.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, maybe we're not going to put up a
Speaker 3: lot of decorations. Maybe there'll be like a set menu
Speaker 3: for the table as opposed to ordering the car.
Speaker 1: It was very much like that. Still, so Channel seven
Speaker 1: had the rights and they had it on stream. You
Speaker 1: could do catch up as well, because obviously the time
Speaker 1: difference has been a problem, but still take up hasn't
Speaker 1: been huge.
Speaker 3: That's because trying to watch it on Channel seven as
Speaker 3: I did, it was very complicated.
Speaker 4: You couldn't.
Speaker 3: I just wanted to watch them swimming and maybe a
Speaker 3: little bit of weightlifting to get some inspos from my midlife.
Speaker 1: Weightlifting weight program.
Speaker 3: I will say I really loved how the Power Games
Speaker 3: and the non Power Games events were mixed up.
Speaker 1: Together, all happening at once.
Speaker 3: Which was awesome because I was watching it with kids
Speaker 3: and it was just like they're all in there together,
Speaker 3: and I just thought it was a great idea to
Speaker 3: do that. I don't know if that was a Glasgow innovation.
Speaker 1: I think it was, and I think that's a model
Speaker 1: that would should be repeated. So in the end, it's
Speaker 1: been very good for Australian that we've won lots, but
Speaker 1: the ratings were down quite considerably.
Speaker 2: Actually feel very sad and very un Australian and I
Speaker 2: think we should repent.
Speaker 1: We should repair.
Speaker 3: Does that mean that next time you're actually gonna watch one.
Speaker 1: Particularly for the swimmers, because obviously we always do really
Speaker 1: well in the swimming and swimmers, unlike the footballers who
Speaker 1: we all just celebrated at the World Cup, they don't
Speaker 1: get to do it every week on a world stage
Speaker 1: and get paid millions and millions of dollars like Ronaldo
Speaker 1: and Messy and Ballyund and all those guys. So anyway,
Speaker 1: apologies to the Commonwealth Games for not bringing you updates.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but the most important thing, Delta smashed it.
Speaker 1: There you go, did she? Okay? Good?
Speaker 2: Good, good love that Ariana Grande is taking a break.
Speaker 2: In an exclusive with People magazine, a representative from her
Speaker 2: team put out a statement saying Ariana will be taking
Speaker 2: a step back from visibility after she completes the Eternal
Speaker 2: Sunshine Tour. She looks forward to finishing the tour and
Speaker 2: ending it on a high note, both healthily and happily,
Speaker 2: and then taking a much deserved break from public facing
Speaker 2: work and appearances, which has led to endless ongoing public scrutiny.
Speaker 2: So a few days before this statement was made, Ariana
Speaker 2: released a music video to her song Petal.
Speaker 1: Have you watched the music video? I have watched it.
Speaker 1: I really like It's a very.
Speaker 2: Like artistic storytelling music video. She's portrayed as a woman
Speaker 2: who's going to all of these acting auditions and in
Speaker 2: the men that she's auditioning for keep rejecting her, and
Speaker 2: they were telling her we want the old Ariana, and
Speaker 2: then she gets a chainsaw and murder them.
Speaker 3: It made me clutch my pearls.
Speaker 1: A bit gonna murdering or the thinness the murdering very violent.
Speaker 2: So on this video, when you look on YouTube, the
Speaker 2: most popular comments have nothing to do with the video. Instead,
Speaker 2: they read, it's not about wanting the old Ariana back,
Speaker 2: it's about wanting her to be healthy. At this point,
Speaker 2: I'm judging her team, friends and family. This is insane.
Speaker 2: Who's going to tell her we miss her being healthy
Speaker 2: looking and not the old music. We're living in a
Speaker 2: black mirror episode. So that's in reference to her weight.
Speaker 1: Obviously, Yes, we talked about this on I think a
Speaker 1: subs episode with me, didn't we a while ago when
Speaker 1: she when the tour first started and the visuals were
Speaker 1: being released from the tour. It's not really a question
Speaker 1: of whether or not she looks very very thin. She
Speaker 1: looks very very thin. The debate that erupted is whether
Speaker 1: or not it was okay to kind of say that,
Speaker 1: And the discussion that we had at the time was
Speaker 1: whether it was a help My point was maybe it's not.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's okay to say that, but is it helpful
Speaker 1: to say that, Like, what are we supposed to do
Speaker 1: with that? Or is it just an excuse to sit
Speaker 1: around and say shit about a woman's body. But the
Speaker 1: sentiment that you've just described in cap in that comment
Speaker 1: is one that was also made publicly, very recently after
Speaker 1: the pedal video by people like Jamila Jamil and Charlie Howard,
Speaker 1: who are both sort of body positive advocates. I guess
Speaker 1: you could say just saying this is so grossly irresponsible
Speaker 1: to be celebrating this this level of thinness, and I
Speaker 1: guess in the question of what are we supposed to
Speaker 1: do with that, the idea is maybe pressure her people
Speaker 1: into doing what they've done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is taking her way from public facing roles.
Speaker 2: The Eternal Sunshine tour finishes on the first of September.
Speaker 2: I think she has a few more concerts, but there
Speaker 2: have been things that she's completely canceled, Like she after
Speaker 2: this tour, she was going back to Broadway to do
Speaker 2: a show with Jonathan Bailey in London, and that's been canceled,
Speaker 2: so she's not doing that anymore. But what was really
Speaker 2: interesting is all the comments from her team about what's
Speaker 2: going to be happening and her performing. There was another
Speaker 2: source I told People magazine she performs a very physical
Speaker 2: show and there's a lot of athleticism involved, she performs
Speaker 2: healthily and successfully at a very high level night after night.
Speaker 2: I think using the word healthily for all of these
Speaker 2: sources from her team is very telling in what they
Speaker 2: are also trying to address the scrutiny and what everyone
Speaker 2: was saying about her body.
Speaker 3: Has the tour been broadly a success? Because there's such
Speaker 3: an interesting dynamic right now right between basically Taylor Swift
Speaker 3: and every other artist is finding that it's impossible to
Speaker 3: get bums on seats for their tours. Has her tour
Speaker 3: been broadly a success?
Speaker 2: Ther tour has been very successful. She isn't in like
Speaker 2: the massive, biggest stadiums like a Taylor Swift, but it's
Speaker 2: been very successful. And everything I've seen on TikTok, and
Speaker 2: I don't know if this is my algorithm in particular,
Speaker 2: are all clips of her tour and people very excited
Speaker 2: to be there, praising her work, saying they're so glad
Speaker 2: she's back on stage, even showing her running across stage
Speaker 2: and showing that what her sources are saying that she
Speaker 2: is performing really really well. And I think it's also
Speaker 2: about everyone enjoying her old music and very excited for
Speaker 2: her after wicked putting out new music, that there is
Speaker 2: a huge part of a fan base that aren't talking
Speaker 2: about her body in the way that other people are.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, maybe not fans so much. What's interesting about
Speaker 3: that statement to me is that it almost it's saying, look,
Speaker 3: she's fine, but all of you talking about her is
Speaker 3: what she needs to take a break. That's what the
Speaker 3: work of saying Healthily twice is doing, and saying she's
Speaker 3: not got any problems, but you are making problems for her.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's exactly what they're saying. It's become the conversation
Speaker 1: around her body has got to a pitch and a
Speaker 1: level that she cannot be put in public like in
Speaker 1: the way that this video, you know, the Pedal video
Speaker 1: did without everybody just exploding about it. Charlie Howard, her comments,
Speaker 1: for example, were, I think it's absolutely appalling from both
Speaker 1: a moral and capitalistic standpoint to have released these videos
Speaker 1: and an album when this person needs psychiatric help and hospitalization.
Speaker 3: Who's Charlie Howard?
Speaker 1: So she's a body positivity activist And Jamila Jamil said
Speaker 1: something very similar. She said her team are thoroughly irresponsible
Speaker 1: for not guiding her away from this deeply damaging image.
Speaker 1: For her young fans to see so glamorized. It's so
Speaker 1: interesting because and this is what we discussed last time,
Speaker 1: is that there's an element of this kind of commentary
Speaker 1: that I find very concerned, trolly, very much like we
Speaker 1: want to talk about your body, but we want to
Speaker 1: dress it up as a way that we're really really
Speaker 1: worried about you. But then the flip side to that
Speaker 1: argument is what Jamille is saying there, that it's irresponsible
Speaker 1: to celebrate and idolize somebody so thin. Yeah, it's really
Speaker 1: complicated because I wonder it's being sort of heralded a
Speaker 1: little bit, the fact that she her team have released
Speaker 1: this statement saying she's stepping back. It's being sort of
Speaker 1: heralded as a good thing by those in that we're
Speaker 1: worried about her camp, right? Is that good? She's going
Speaker 1: to get the help she needs. But the language of
Speaker 1: the statement, as you've just pointed out, Amelia, is more like,
Speaker 1: you guys have made us do this, and can you
Speaker 1: bully someone into getting help? And inverted commas experts would
Speaker 1: say no, you can't.
Speaker 3: Well, and the other thing to mention here is that
Speaker 3: the message of the pedal video, there's a lot of
Speaker 3: anger in that video. Obviously she literally gets out the chainsaw.
Speaker 3: But I think that one message you can take from
Speaker 3: that video is that she is angry at her fans,
Speaker 3: or at least the public generally, because as mentioned, there's
Speaker 3: a moment in the video where these kind of entertainment
Speaker 3: haunt shows say we want the old you, and she's
Speaker 3: saying in that video, I've changed and you can't deal
Speaker 3: with it, which is similar to what the statement is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's I mean, she's made public statements in the past,
Speaker 1: because the commentary about her body has been going on
Speaker 1: for years obviously reached a sort of fever pitch around
Speaker 1: Wicked and then again around this tour. But she's come
Speaker 1: out before and said just stop it, stop talking about it.
Speaker 1: It's not helpful, it's not healthy. It feels like the
Speaker 1: discourse has just gotten has just overtaken that, as well as.
Speaker 2: The timing of the statement, like knowing that the statement
Speaker 2: has come out here in early August and the tour
Speaker 2: finishes early September, so there's still a whole month of
Speaker 2: her being in the public, and from the footages I've
Speaker 2: seen of her tour so far, they also seem very
Speaker 2: deeply emotional, like there's parts where she's like crying and
Speaker 2: she's overcome with emotion and she's so happy to be
Speaker 2: there and she can't believe so many people have come
Speaker 2: to watch her. And I think this like it if
Speaker 2: you are attending a concert between now until it ends,
Speaker 2: I feel like you would feel really sad, Like it's
Speaker 2: just going to be a very sad concert because of
Speaker 2: knowing what's going to happen after, where she's going to
Speaker 2: leave the spotlight and you won't see her again. So
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's like her team using the
Speaker 2: time we have left with her unquote left with her
Speaker 2: as a way to kind of make people feel really
Speaker 2: bad for having all of this public scrutiny about her.
Speaker 3: And also, of course the concerts are always going to
Speaker 3: be overlaid with emotion for her because of what she
Speaker 3: and everyone who went to see her in Manchester went through.
Speaker 3: And I think whenever we talk about Ariana Grande, it's
Speaker 3: kind of strange to me that we don't always mention
Speaker 3: that enormous traumatic event that happened to her and her
Speaker 3: fans yea, and how that must be informing that doesn't
Speaker 3: just go away, the memory of what happened to her.
Speaker 1: Then twenty seventeen, it was a terrorist attack on her
Speaker 1: arena performance in Manchester that killed twenty two of her fans,
Speaker 1: and then the following year her longtime boyfriend on off
Speaker 1: boyfriend died of a drug overdose. She is like a
Speaker 1: She's become a sort of symbol of resilience, a little
Speaker 1: bit tragedy tinged, as many of the divas always are
Speaker 1: in a way, you know, And when I say diva there,
Speaker 1: I literally mean a singing diva, not a you know,
Speaker 1: she's being a diva often are, and she has become
Speaker 1: that sort of symbol. I just I find it so
Speaker 1: interesting because objectively you can't look at her and think
Speaker 1: she looks healthy. But then on the other hand, I
Speaker 1: really push against the idea that we really know what's
Speaker 1: going on with somebody and whether or not they have,
Speaker 1: as Jamille is suggesting, as Charlie Howard is suggesting, a
Speaker 1: really serious mental health condition. You can't diagnose that from
Speaker 1: the out.
Speaker 3: But do you think that, and do you think that
Speaker 3: the Jamila's and the Charlie's of the world are going
Speaker 3: to feel like, okay, fine, A to your earlier point, Holly,
Speaker 3: you've done what we asked you to do. All we
Speaker 3: wanted you to do is take some time off, stop
Speaker 3: making money off your pain, and go away for a bit.
Speaker 3: I mean, do you think they feel vindicated.
Speaker 1: I think they will feel vindicated because I think that,
Speaker 1: as I say, the sort of the public service element
Speaker 1: of this discussion. So interestingly, Jamala Jaimil said, how talking
Speaker 1: about this is a bit of a trolley problem. You know,
Speaker 1: the trolley The trolley dilemma is the idea that if
Speaker 1: a runaway tram was running towards people and you could
Speaker 1: pull a lever, that it would only hit one or
Speaker 1: it would hit ten. Would you pull the lever right?
Speaker 1: That's the idea of the trolley problem, And Jamila Jamil
Speaker 1: says the shrinking pop star situation is something of a
Speaker 1: trolley problem. If we comment on her body, we could
Speaker 1: harm her mental health, which would be awful, and nobody
Speaker 1: wants that. If we don't comment on her body, we
Speaker 1: run the risk of normalizing that image to hundreds of
Speaker 1: millions of teenage girls, kids, and even impressionable adults consuming her.
Speaker 1: So I guess they would say that we've managed to
Speaker 1: raise the discourse to a level where she had to
Speaker 1: address it and it had to be addressed. A lot
Speaker 1: of people have said, it's her team, this is so cynical.
Speaker 1: They're making money from her. But that assumes a lot
Speaker 1: of bad will and ill will on behalf of her family,
Speaker 1: her team, her friends, which is probably unfairly placed. But
Speaker 1: I think that yes, these commentators would see this as
Speaker 1: a positive step to your point, though, em there's a
Speaker 1: month to go between now and then, and I would
Speaker 1: not want to be Ariana Grande with this much scrutiny
Speaker 1: on every single thing you do at all.
Speaker 3: It's curious timing for sure. After the break, are you
Speaker 3: a sale or an anchor? John Cena is a delightful man.
Speaker 3: You probably don't even know how you know him. He's
Speaker 3: been in a few movies. He was in train Wreck,
Speaker 3: he was a merman in Barbie. He had an illustrious
Speaker 3: wrestling career. No one for an internet meme. You can't
Speaker 3: see me bring you with anyone.
Speaker 2: He's very into big action movies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen him in a
Speaker 1: movie except for Barbie, but I've seen him in a
Speaker 1: million means.
Speaker 3: He's got great energy. He just seems like a good dude. Anyway.
Speaker 3: He was recently on Amy Poehler's Good Hang, and he
Speaker 3: put forward a theory about how it's about the energy
Speaker 3: you put out in the world and how you relate
Speaker 3: to other people, and he said that everyone is either
Speaker 3: an anchor or a sale. I'm going to play two
Speaker 3: clips from their conversation. In the first clip, he's talking
Speaker 3: about his hometown called West Newbury. It's a town in
Speaker 3: New England, and that's a region in the US no
Speaker 3: one for its straight talk. They don't sort of beat
Speaker 3: around the bush there. And then in the second clip,
Speaker 3: he's talking about his friendship with Paula Pell, who was
Speaker 3: a comedian with whom he appeared in the movie Sisters.
Speaker 4: Because my brothers are all hitting that like late forties,
Speaker 4: approaching the half century now, and we all have wisdom
Speaker 4: of like, man, it's kind of a shitty mindset if
Speaker 4: somebody's like, hey, that's life and you're like, it's taken forever.
Speaker 5: Like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's also West Newbery totally.
Speaker 4: And man, as beautiful as the landscape is, sometimes there's
Speaker 4: a lot more anchors than sales over there.
Speaker 1: I mean, what's so great about Paula What do you
Speaker 1: like about her?
Speaker 4: I like her, her perspective. I love her courage, man, Like,
Speaker 4: I just like that energy. I like, again I say
Speaker 4: anchors and sales, she's a sale, yeah, you know, like
Speaker 4: always curious, always creative, off the wall. Yeah, I just know.
Speaker 4: I know any idea is going to have like that whimsy,
Speaker 4: that magic in it. Yeah, And I want to be
Speaker 4: with those people.
Speaker 3: So what I think is interesting here I think I
Speaker 3: kind of disagree with John Seyer a little bit because
Speaker 3: what Hayes seems to be saying is that anchors are
Speaker 3: always bad. They're always dragging you down. I guess literally,
Speaker 3: they're always negative and they're kind of curmudgeonally. And then
Speaker 3: sales are just people you always want to be around
Speaker 3: because they're always propelling you forward and encouraging you. But
Speaker 3: I think it's a bit more complicated than that, because
Speaker 3: I don't know a lot about boats. And I asked
Speaker 3: you if you knew anything about sailing before this, and
Speaker 3: you told me that you knew everything about sailing from
Speaker 3: the Odyssey.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: But my understanding is that boats require both anchors and
Speaker 3: sales to function.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So true.
Speaker 2: So I look this up and on AI and the
Speaker 2: AI told me, so sail catches the wind embraces change
Speaker 2: and move towards new horizons. Anchors hold firmly against storms,
Speaker 2: provide safety and prevents drifting.
Speaker 3: Did you type into AI what is an anchor and
Speaker 3: what is a saiale? Because I think that's one of
Speaker 3: those moments where the AI is just like these humans,
Speaker 3: I can't wait to replace them too much.
Speaker 2: And I was probably like, she really loves the Odyssey,
Speaker 2: because what I will say was the Odyssey is that
Speaker 2: they had a lot of sails and they needed some
Speaker 2: because they've gone to all the wrong islands.
Speaker 1: This is so interesting. So his reading of this is
Speaker 1: that anchor is trying to drag you down hold. Now,
Speaker 1: successful Hollywood people are always telling this story. I had
Speaker 1: to leave my hometown because everyone in my hometown was
Speaker 1: just telling me work in the local store. You'll be
Speaker 1: going exactly I'm about to say. So people love that story.
Speaker 1: They're like, I had to leave that place because I
Speaker 1: needed to go to a place of possibility. I could
Speaker 1: tell my story that way. I grew up in the
Speaker 1: north of England where it rains all the time and peoples,
Speaker 1: as famously talked about on the pod our slogan, is
Speaker 1: it's the hope that kills you. You should always expect
Speaker 1: either the worst or just more of the same. Really,
Speaker 1: it's probably better to just not go outside because you're
Speaker 1: gonna get wet right now. That would be an unfair
Speaker 1: characterization of my hometown, which is actually a bed of
Speaker 1: much creativity. But I get it. I get that idea.
Speaker 1: If you've pulled away from that and gone to sunny
Speaker 1: California to seek your fortune or sunny Sydney to seek
Speaker 1: your fortune, you're like, I had to get away from
Speaker 1: those people. But I agree with you that actually it's
Speaker 1: much more complicated than that. You need a bit of both,
Speaker 1: don't you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, here's like, here's an illustration of why you need both.
Speaker 3: You know, sometimes you'll go shopping with a friend and
Speaker 3: you'll put on something that looks objectively terrible. But I'm
Speaker 3: a little bit guilty of this. I get excited by shopping.
Speaker 3: Maybe I get a bit over excited. Maybe I egg
Speaker 3: people on a little bit just because it's fun. And
Speaker 3: maybe you kind of want an anchor in those situations
Speaker 3: instead of the sale. You want someone who's like, those
Speaker 3: those stripes are doing you no favors, you know, like,
Speaker 3: rather than someone who just tells you, yeah, I just sorry,
Speaker 3: we do that.
Speaker 1: I'm just That's why I said, stripe, I love that.
Speaker 1: To keep it in.
Speaker 3: I don't want it, okay, Anyway, I was not talking
Speaker 3: about you there.
Speaker 1: I was looking at for people who were just listening
Speaker 1: and not watching this. They're both wearing stripes, and.
Speaker 3: Am your stripes look so nice? For the records? You
Speaker 3: so much? So you sometimes don't You don't want someone
Speaker 3: to ex you on. You want someone who tells you
Speaker 3: the truth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so a sale is the one saying by the
Speaker 1: stripe is like try spots? Is that the idea?
Speaker 3: Yeah? So? I think in relationships sometimes you need a
Speaker 3: bit of grounding energy, you need a bit of honesty. Maybe. Look,
Speaker 3: I sometimes dream up these crazy plans that I should
Speaker 3: not execute, and I go to friends who I know
Speaker 3: are gonna give me a little bit of a reality
Speaker 3: check on it.
Speaker 1: That's so interesting.
Speaker 2: I think I'm a sale professionally, but an anchor person.
Speaker 1: How do you mean?
Speaker 2: I think when I'm looking at work, I see myself
Speaker 2: as a sale because I like love doing new things.
Speaker 2: I don't really like doing the same thing every day.
Speaker 2: I want to experience new things. I'm up for a challenge.
Speaker 2: I want to just like travel the world in terms
Speaker 2: of work, whereas in my personal life, I feel like,
Speaker 2: especially when I look at my my friendships, I feel
Speaker 2: like I'm an anchor who's friends with a lot of sales.
Speaker 2: Like I'm the kind of friend I need like stability,
Speaker 2: I need repetition, I need safety, Like I'm a big
Speaker 2: believer in like clubs like book club, sports clubs, something
Speaker 2: that we can do every week for the end of time,
Speaker 2: because a lot of my friends are very much like,
Speaker 2: let's get dinner on Monday. And then in my head,
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, that means we're going to get dinners
Speaker 2: on Monday all the time. And they're like, oh no,
Speaker 2: we're done with Mondays. Let's do something and they're like no,
Speaker 2: And does that mean you don't like it when your
Speaker 2: friends change on you? Like so if they decide that
Speaker 2: they no longer want to a club, book club, or
Speaker 2: why would you go there or live there or date
Speaker 2: that person when friends move away? No, you are literally
Speaker 2: the actor I will follow you.
Speaker 1: Are you an anchor or a sale Amelia?
Speaker 3: I think it depends on the situation and the relationship, right,
Speaker 3: Like as I mentioned, look, I'll get over excited on
Speaker 3: a shopping trip for sure, and become a little bit
Speaker 3: too much of a sale. I think my friends would
Speaker 3: describe me that way in negative terms in terms of shopping,
Speaker 3: But I think that in a professional setting, a bit
Speaker 3: of anchor energy is good, Yeah, just to like ensure
Speaker 3: people don't get carried away, right exactly. I was very
Speaker 3: curious about how you classify yourself.
Speaker 1: I don't know what do you tell me?
Speaker 3: You tell me, well, you've obviously got some man cunion
Speaker 3: anchor about you.
Speaker 1: I do, and I tend to stay in a workplace
Speaker 1: a long time. I don't flit around, although I have
Speaker 1: flitted around between jobs in this workplace for a long time,
Speaker 1: but I've been I do, and I do quite like
Speaker 1: a routine. But I'm also a very itchy sagittarian in
Speaker 1: that I hate feeling anchored, like I hate it.
Speaker 3: And you don't like feeling tracked or surveyed, and anchors
Speaker 3: like a little bit of tracking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't like feeling tracked or surveyed, and I
Speaker 1: don't like I don't like everything to be too planned out.
Speaker 1: I'm the opposite of you in that way that when
Speaker 1: my friends are like, we need to book that weekend
Speaker 1: in October. I'm like, whaty no, no, no, no, which
Speaker 1: country I'll be. I am such a free spirit even
Speaker 1: though I will be doing exactly what I'm doing now
Speaker 1: in Octager. So I think that I'm probably both, but
Speaker 1: I understand the I think I'm probably more of a sale.
Speaker 1: I think I probably I.
Speaker 2: Think you're an anchor when it's like your own anchor, Like,
Speaker 2: it can't be someone else's anchor that's impeding on your life.
Speaker 2: It has to be you put that anchor there yourself
Speaker 2: and you like that. Oh, we're getting very nautical, John Cena.
Speaker 2: So wise it's.
Speaker 3: The true crime case, which would be anyone's absolute worst nightmare.
Speaker 3: And now there is a tragic update. So we've spoken
Speaker 3: on the show. Incredibly enough, it was six months ago
Speaker 3: that the US Morning TV and Casavannah Guthrie's eighty four
Speaker 3: year old mum, Nancy, went missing. She was taken from
Speaker 3: her bed in Tucson, Arizona. It was middle of the night,
Speaker 3: and we now know she was taken by at least
Speaker 3: one masked intruder. Nancy had a bad back and a
Speaker 3: heart condition, and since then, in that six months, we've
Speaker 3: basically gotten no real developments on the case. There have
Speaker 3: been various updates. So, for instance, Savannah returned to host
Speaker 3: The Today Show on April sixth, and we talked about that,
Speaker 3: or you talked about that on this show and how
Speaker 3: hard that must have been for her. And then in
Speaker 3: the last few days came what I would say is
Speaker 3: probably the biggest development in the case since she originally
Speaker 3: went missing, which is that the authorities released two of
Speaker 3: the notes that were purportedly sent by Nancy's kidnappers, which
Speaker 3: have not been released to the public, even though they
Speaker 3: actually came a long time ago. So the first of
Speaker 3: these notes was an online message that was sent to
Speaker 3: the local TV state in Tucson on the Monday after
Speaker 3: she went missing. She went missing on a Sunday. This
Speaker 3: note was sent on a Monday from an encrypted URL
Speaker 3: and it began, because again these notes have been released
Speaker 3: now to the public. Hello Savannah, we have your mother Nancy.
Speaker 3: It demanded five million US dollars in bitcoin, and it
Speaker 3: gave them a week to get that money together, and
Speaker 3: it said that she would be killed. Nancy would be
Speaker 3: killed if the money was not received in time. That's
Speaker 3: like straight out of a horror Yeah, I mean, let
Speaker 3: that just sink in for a minute. But now we
Speaker 3: know that there was a second note that was sent
Speaker 3: that Friday. So again goes missing on a Sunday. First
Speaker 3: ransom note sent on a Monday. Then this second note
Speaker 3: is sent that Friday. And remember that's a couple of
Speaker 3: days before the ransom deadline. That's a key piece of information.
Speaker 3: This note said we never intended to hurt her. We
Speaker 3: are truly sorry. We did not fully grasp the seriousness
Speaker 3: of her physical condition and that she had passed away,
Speaker 3: and they said that she was buried in nature.
Speaker 1: Do the authorities well, I guess the fact they've released
Speaker 1: them suggests yes, they obviously give full credibility to these.
Speaker 3: Yes they do. I think we are being led to
Speaker 3: understand that they think these are from the actual kidnappers.
Speaker 3: And to highlight one detail here which people have been
Speaker 3: honing in on, the kidnappers sent that second note saying
Speaker 3: she's died before the deadline for the ransom, in other words,
Speaker 3: essentially essentially forfeiting their ransom demand, saying, actually she's died.
Speaker 3: We didn't intend for her to die. And I guess then,
Speaker 3: therefore releasing Savannah and her family from paying the ransom.
Speaker 2: The second note comes across as like creepily kind, which
Speaker 2: weirded me out.
Speaker 3: Well, that's why. So Savannah released a video message last week.
Speaker 3: She's been releasing sort of periodic video messages clearly very
Speaker 3: targeted to the kidnappers, kidnapper or kidnappers all along. Last
Speaker 3: week she released a video that pep were confused by.
Speaker 3: In the video, she said, you have tried to do
Speaker 3: the right thing, and now we ask you to complete
Speaker 3: this and to give us closure. And obviously everyone thought,
Speaker 3: what does she mean you've tried to do the right thing.
Speaker 3: You kidnapped her mother. But now what we understand is
Speaker 3: she's saying, you told us that she died, you were
Speaker 3: no longer asking for the ransom. But now what we
Speaker 3: really need to hear from you is where she is buried.
Speaker 1: Well, it explains obviously why the case kind of went
Speaker 1: away in a way, because it was all over in
Speaker 1: a week. It was all over. When we were talking
Speaker 1: about Savannah recently, Mia was talking about the incredible stoicism
Speaker 1: of being able to go back to work and what
Speaker 1: that must feel like to have all this scrutiny and
Speaker 1: all these questions all the time about what was happening
Speaker 1: with her mother.
Speaker 3: She knew.
Speaker 1: Not that that means no less, it's more so in
Speaker 1: many ways. But she knew from the first week what
Speaker 1: had happened.
Speaker 3: To her first week, what had happened.
Speaker 1: That's so sad, and so it's so illustrative in a
Speaker 1: way about we have obsession with true crime stories, as
Speaker 1: if we're all amateur salutes, but we don't know what's
Speaker 1: going on.
Speaker 3: No. Well, and unfortunately in this case, it seems very
Speaker 3: clear that the authorities don't know what's going on, because
Speaker 3: that's why they've released both these notes so many months
Speaker 3: after it happened. They've said they hope that people might
Speaker 3: be able to pick up on the wording or maybe
Speaker 3: connect if someone in their life has seemed attached or
Speaker 3: or has seemed weird lately, that they're hoping that that
Speaker 3: may lead to a fresh round of leads, because they're
Speaker 3: out of them.
Speaker 1: Because there have been no leads none. Oh, it's such
Speaker 1: a sad story. After the break, there is a tradwife,
Speaker 1: one of the most famous of them all, who wants
Speaker 1: us to know that we got it all wrong. Nara
Speaker 1: Smith wants a word friends, she wants a word with us.
Speaker 1: If you are not familiar with Nara Smith. We have
Speaker 1: talked about our a few times on the show, but
Speaker 1: let me play you a little grab of her signature
Speaker 1: style of content.
Speaker 6: My husband's been craving the most random things lately, but
Speaker 6: today it was extra weird. When he asked me whether
Speaker 6: we had top ramen at home, told him, before you
Speaker 6: go out and grab it, let me just make it
Speaker 6: for you.
Speaker 1: Now. I just kind of adore her, So picture the
Speaker 1: fact that what happens then is Nara Smith makes Ramen
Speaker 1: noodles from scratch, which have to be rested for five hours,
Speaker 1: so it's not like he wanted it now and he
Speaker 1: can have it now. And she is wearing while she
Speaker 1: does that, a black evening gown, and I had to
Speaker 1: ask fashion expert Amelia Lester what this was? A chain? Yes,
Speaker 1: a chain, metal and pearl hood, like a sort of
Speaker 1: shruggy hood, a full face of makeup, and an inscrutable expression.
Speaker 1: Nara makes these kind of videos where she cooks something
Speaker 1: almost ridiculous from scratch, not that making rama from scratch
Speaker 1: is ridiculed, but she makes chewing gum, she makes cheerios,
Speaker 1: aureos toothpaste from scratch while wearing full evening whear to
Speaker 1: her twelve plus million TikTok followers and her five million
Speaker 1: Instagram followers. She is a big deal. Now. You would
Speaker 1: have also heard us talking about her because she also
Speaker 1: has been going through something unbelievably difficult lately. She uncharacteristically
Speaker 1: really sort of posed as herself and told her followers
Speaker 1: that for the past year, her little daughter, Whimsey, who
Speaker 1: is the second youngest of her four kids, has been
Speaker 1: in cancer treatment and she's now in remission, which is
Speaker 1: why Nara shared the details and why she is now
Speaker 1: out on the promotional trail because she's got a cookbook
Speaker 1: coming out right, and she's done what widely believed to
Speaker 1: be her first long form interview with Alex Cooper on
Speaker 1: Call Her Daddy. She talks about how the thing that
Speaker 1: drives her crazy is that everybody thinks because she makes
Speaker 1: her food from scratch, and that's a thing that she
Speaker 1: is a trad wife. Along with Ballerina Farm, she's hell
Speaker 1: up as a poster child for that movement, and she
Speaker 1: says she has no idea why here she is speaking
Speaker 1: in her real voice about it. I just want to
Speaker 1: there's a reference in here to her autoimmune issues. She
Speaker 1: tells Alex that she started cooking things from scratch and
Speaker 1: eating nonprocessed food as a result. After her first baby
Speaker 1: was born when she was just When Nara was just nineteen,
Speaker 1: she started having lots of autoimmune related flare ups like
Speaker 1: XMA and different issues. Here she is speaking to Alex
Speaker 1: in her real voice about why she is not a tradwife.
Speaker 5: A trad wife is a woman who embraces or promotes
Speaker 5: a traditional model of marriage and family life, where she
Speaker 5: typically prioritizes being a homemaker and a primary caregiver for kids,
Speaker 5: takes primary responsibility for cooking, cleaning, and managing the household,
Speaker 5: supports her husband's role as the primary breadwinner, often values
Speaker 5: traditional gender roles within marriage. So with that definition in
Speaker 5: those points and none of that, and we can go
Speaker 5: through it point by point. I don't prioritize being a homemaker.
Speaker 5: I'm a working mom, Like sure do. I love cooking
Speaker 5: because it's my passion and because I kind of have
Speaker 5: to do it given my autoimmune absolutely primary caregiver for
Speaker 5: my kids. Now, my husband and I split it fifty
Speaker 5: to fifty, like when he works, I watch them, When
Speaker 5: I work, he watches them. And now, given everything that's
Speaker 5: been going on, we also have helped my moms out.
Speaker 5: We have someone that helps us with the kids because
Speaker 5: it's just not doable for me to do it all.
Speaker 1: She says. If you turn the camera around from one
Speaker 1: of her videos of her wearing her chain mailhood, you
Speaker 1: would see a chaotic scene of four kids, her husband
Speaker 1: being there, a messy house, all the usual things, and
Speaker 1: that she's actually always working. Do we feel like Nara
Speaker 1: Smith has been done wrong?
Speaker 2: Firstly, I love how she memorized the definition of tradworth.
Speaker 1: Oh she was reading it, Oh, Alex Cooper was saying,
Speaker 1: and she was like, so, Nara said, I had to
Speaker 1: look up what a trad wife was and this is
Speaker 1: what it.
Speaker 2: Is, right, Because I was She's probably gets asked this
Speaker 2: question all the time. I do kind of feel bad that, like,
Speaker 2: not because we've kind of like lumped it in with
Speaker 2: the tradewife, but because she is so upset by it,
Speaker 2: Like she definitely doesn't want to be a trad wife.
Speaker 2: And I do think that she did become a casualty
Speaker 2: in the tradwife movement because she became famous around the
Speaker 2: same time as like Ballerina Farm.
Speaker 1: And all of that.
Speaker 2: And I think the reason why is because her videos
Speaker 2: are just very similar to the content we were seeing then. Yes,
Speaker 2: they are like similar to Ballerina Farm. It's like a
Speaker 2: woman at her kitchen cooking something from scratch. She's got
Speaker 2: like a million kids. She always looks good, always looks
Speaker 2: put together, and we were just so I think it
Speaker 2: was around the time where we were seeing influences turn
Speaker 2: into brands and we became obsessed with wanting to put
Speaker 2: terms on these things. So we came up with a
Speaker 2: term trad wife, and we were like, Ballerina Farm, yup,
Speaker 2: you go in there, you go in there, you do
Speaker 2: cooking videos, you go in there, Nara Smith, you go
Speaker 2: in there. And now we're like, we have this big
Speaker 2: term for all of them that we can just group
Speaker 2: them together and then just use them as a group
Speaker 2: to say whether they're good or bad, or they do
Speaker 2: this or don't do this. And she's just fallen into
Speaker 2: that group. And she was like, no, get me out
Speaker 2: of the group. You see me as I can own
Speaker 2: my own person.
Speaker 3: But being in the group has made her a lot
Speaker 3: of money. Like that's the thing. I think She's flirting
Speaker 3: with the appearance of a trad wife, but now wanting
Speaker 3: to distance herself from it, and I think that's a
Speaker 3: little bit like wanting your cake and eating it too.
Speaker 1: I think I've always argued that Nara Smith is not
Speaker 1: a trad wife because if you watch her content is
Speaker 1: so obviously satirical, Like it is so obviously there to
Speaker 1: be humorous and weird. Like, really, no one is suggesting
Speaker 1: that you really make chewing gum from scratch while wearing
Speaker 1: cature like she is. It's entertainment, But.
Speaker 3: You mean you're putting her in the same categories as
Speaker 3: Celeste Barber In other words.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to Satirical might not be
Speaker 1: the right word in that it's played for humor, but
Speaker 1: it's entertainment. This is my thing about trad wives being
Speaker 1: the term that's thrown around for any woman who cooks dinner. Right,
Speaker 1: there are actual, real tradwives, and they're defining characteristic. Really
Speaker 1: is that they are. They are telling you how to live.
Speaker 1: They will, they have an agenda, and they're feeding it
Speaker 1: to you. They are telling you that women have been
Speaker 1: sold a lie by feminism, that traditional family roles are
Speaker 1: the secret to your happiness, that terrible mothers leave their
Speaker 1: children in daycare. They exist. We've got plenty of them
Speaker 1: here in Australia. I see their content all the time.
Speaker 1: Not every woman who cooks dinner on the internet is
Speaker 1: that person what a Nara Smith has done. She's a model.
Speaker 1: She's maybe very deliberately, maybe or most accidentally, stumbled across
Speaker 1: a winning formula and she created a persona around it,
Speaker 1: which is this soft speaking woman who's making aureos from
Speaker 1: scratch and chewing come from scratch and Nando's from scratch.
Speaker 1: But she's not telling you she's not got a like
Speaker 1: a political or no, she doesn't have a political agenda.
Speaker 1: This is just entertainment. And I think think that what
Speaker 1: happens is well two things. I think I think one
Speaker 1: of them is as women, and we've talked about this
Speaker 1: many times, even to almost two decades into social media,
Speaker 1: we are almost incapable of watching a woman do anything
Speaker 1: without seeing it as some kind of judgment or instruction.
Speaker 1: So we're so primed to feel judged and guilty and
Speaker 1: insecure that we're like, well, Narasmith makes her own chewing
Speaker 1: gum while wearing Chaparelli, Like, clearly I'm doing life wrong
Speaker 1: when that's not what Narasmith is doing. But the other
Speaker 1: interesting point to this to me is she became massive
Speaker 1: very quickly, so a huge bread We're making all kinds
Speaker 1: of brand deals. She does lots of sponkn Now she's
Speaker 1: her cookbook is going to be enormous. You know, it
Speaker 1: would have been a bidding war. It's been years in
Speaker 1: the making. She actually admits that she had never read
Speaker 1: a cookbook before she got the deal to make one,
Speaker 1: and her publisher had to be like, so this is
Speaker 1: how a cookbook works. Let's remember Narrosmith is twenty four
Speaker 1: years right. She goes into this interview with Alex Cooper
Speaker 1: saying that you know, she's been working so hard because
Speaker 1: she has to keep feeding the beast, the social media beast,
Speaker 1: to keep the dollars coming in. She says that her
Speaker 1: and lucky husband's model too, are kind of like joint breadwinners.
Speaker 1: After her last baby, she was incredibly burnt out and
Speaker 1: had a massive crash in an anxiety, terrible postnatal anxiety.
Speaker 1: And so really she's a girl. She's that other archetype
Speaker 1: that we like to grab onto. She's like overworked, burnt
Speaker 1: out girl boss. And yet because she makes her content
Speaker 1: in the home where like, oh no, tradwives are all
Speaker 1: about the soft life and the comfort, and that's not
Speaker 1: been it at all, and I kind of feel that
Speaker 1: that's more on us than it is on her.
Speaker 3: Now, look, you've actually totally won me over to this.
Speaker 3: I had never thought of her as like the Celeste
Speaker 3: Barber of tradwives, but maybe that's exactly what she's doing.
Speaker 1: I don't think she's suggesting anyone actually makes c cerios.
Speaker 3: And I think to sort of prove your point, she
Speaker 3: chooses to go and Call her Daddy. Now, like that's
Speaker 3: one of the biggest podcasts in the world. I think
Speaker 3: anyone with a book to promote wants to go and
Speaker 3: call her Daddy. But there is a huge ecosystem of
Speaker 3: right wing media in the US that she could plug
Speaker 3: into if she did want to push a particular political agenda,
Speaker 3: and she chose to go not on the right wing
Speaker 3: media Ferris Wheel, but instead on Call Her Daddy, which
Speaker 3: does not have the political agenda of tradwives.
Speaker 2: Which is what is kind of confusing to me, because,
Speaker 2: like you said, whole like you see her videos as entertainment,
Speaker 2: but there will be like a majority of her audience
Speaker 2: who thinks she is a trad wife who are following
Speaker 2: her because she embodies what they think the same values
Speaker 2: as themselves. So by doing the opposite and saying I
Speaker 2: am not this, doesn't that just like push her away
Speaker 2: from all of those people who followed her originally.
Speaker 1: I think that the tradwife thing was thrust upon her.
Speaker 1: And to your point, Amelia, has it been helpful? Yes,
Speaker 1: I reckon because it's been one of the biggest trends
Speaker 1: on social media of the past few year even but
Speaker 1: a lot of people who watch tradwive content, myself included,
Speaker 1: are not necessarily tradwives. I just find it really interesting.
Speaker 3: Well, and the social media platforms know that rage bait
Speaker 3: keeps people engaged like nothing else.
Speaker 1: And so she knows all that. Has she had played
Speaker 1: the attention economy, Yes, but I think that we Ballerina
Speaker 1: farm who's slightly different, but she both of these women
Speaker 1: are now moguls. Basically, they're both run a business. They
Speaker 1: are the main product, and what they make and what
Speaker 1: they put out to the world are the main products.
Speaker 1: But because they're women, and because they're making domestic content,
Speaker 1: as in food, you know that every woman has to
Speaker 1: cook to a point, every parent has to cook to
Speaker 1: a point. All of those things we immediately put them
Speaker 1: in a certain instructive basket.
Speaker 3: But Ballerina Farm is different. I think Ballerina Farm is
Speaker 3: kind of aspirational in a way that I think your
Speaker 3: point here is so true and interesting. I hadn't thought
Speaker 3: about it that she's that Nara is doing satirical content.
Speaker 3: Ballerina Farm is not satyrian. No, there's no like wink
Speaker 3: wink either.
Speaker 1: But look, I think she doesn't like the tradwive term either,
Speaker 1: because the key ingredient to a tradwife really is you're submissive.
Speaker 1: That's the key ingredient is my husband rules the house,
Speaker 1: and there's a whole lot of beliefs and agenda that
Speaker 1: goes with that. And Hannah Nielman also does not agree
Speaker 1: with that statement. Now some people do. Infamously, when a
Speaker 1: journalist went out there to do a profile, she very
Speaker 1: much wrote that in terms of I think he's in charge.
Speaker 1: You know, we've seen that phenomena has become so big.
Speaker 1: There are books about it now, infamous Yesteryear. But whether
Speaker 1: or not they're just actually very savvy business women who've
Speaker 1: chosen this as their arena to play in. I think
Speaker 1: it's really interesting because I think that Anara Smith, who
Speaker 1: as she says, I'm a busy working mom who's actually
Speaker 1: burnt out and needs a break. Is a really interesting
Speaker 1: viewpoint what we think of tradwives as we think, oh,
Speaker 1: they're just frolicking around in the country. She doesn't even
Speaker 1: live in the country, doesn't she. And she travels all
Speaker 1: the time, she's always on a plane, and she's, you know,
Speaker 1: making big deals with every like. She's not that, but
Speaker 1: we've just kind of decided it for her. It's really interesting.
Speaker 1: I think we should all maybe accept particularly on TikTok,
Speaker 1: we're literally just like watching Telly, right, We're just watching
Speaker 1: and this is the Nara Smith Show. And on the
Speaker 1: Nara Smith Show, she wears ridiculous clothes while making ridiculous food,
Speaker 1: and it's funny and entertaining, and there's something very soothing
Speaker 1: about her voice. She's not telling us that we should
Speaker 1: all be making chewing gum, although I do believe there
Speaker 1: is a recipe for chewing gum in the court So delicious.
Speaker 3: So there are two things that people on the internet
Speaker 3: don't like about me. I'll tell you what they are.
Speaker 1: That's not true.
Speaker 3: I'm just sharing facts I agree with them. But these
Speaker 3: are the two things that people have identified as problematic
Speaker 3: about me. The first is my voice, which I can't
Speaker 3: do anything about.
Speaker 1: None of us can. I thought everyone liked your voice.
Speaker 7: I'm just sharing the hot takes about what your voice.
Speaker 7: They say, I'm nasally, They say I am like wet cardboard,
Speaker 7: and also like I've just risen from the grave, which
Speaker 7: given the night's sleep I had last night, is not
Speaker 7: completely untrue.
Speaker 3: So the second thing they say about me, which I
Speaker 3: actually do think is sort of fair, is that I
Speaker 3: don't have any sense of personal style. And this I
Speaker 3: will own because I am very interested in fashion. As
Speaker 3: at Ladders know, I am this show's fashion correspondent, but
Speaker 3: I do it because I'm interested in it. I am
Speaker 3: not pretending that I'm any kind of expert to this point.
Speaker 3: I went to see an expert last week about fashion
Speaker 3: because I don't know anything about it. I needed to
Speaker 3: learn some more, so I went to see a color expert.
Speaker 3: Then I'll go and see a voice coach after that.
Speaker 1: I think, I think you're the only one who does
Speaker 1: homework for show.
Speaker 3: You saw the Odyssey.
Speaker 1: I watch a lot of Nara Smith videos.
Speaker 3: And you also asked what the difference was between a
Speaker 3: sale and anncas So whatice that? So there are two
Speaker 3: things I from the color expert that I wanted to
Speaker 3: share today. The first is sixty thirty ten. This is
Speaker 3: a rule of how you put color together. Because we're
Speaker 3: not doing the like various shades of Latain cappuccino anymore.
Speaker 3: You know the neutrals, the Cutaushian neutrals that dominated for
Speaker 3: so long we're doing color. There's enough depressing stuff happening
Speaker 3: in the world. We have to uplift he very bad
Speaker 3: in beige, very bad. Most people do. This color expert
Speaker 3: was like, put on a bright color that is right
Speaker 3: for you, and you can wear less makeup and you
Speaker 3: just look happier and more cheery and like you had
Speaker 3: a good night.
Speaker 1: If it's this on the.
Speaker 3: Right for you.
Speaker 2: Because I find color is sometimes a bit intimidated, it's
Speaker 2: very intimidating.
Speaker 3: But this is a rule about how you put color together.
Speaker 3: Sixty thirty ten. So sixty percent of your outfit should
Speaker 3: be one color, thirty percent should be another color, and
Speaker 3: ten percent should be another color. So three colors. She
Speaker 3: did say that as you get more advanced in fashion,
Speaker 3: you can do five colors, and then you can do
Speaker 3: nine colors.
Speaker 1: But that's like, that's me. I'd colors like fifteen colors
Speaker 1: up to that level, but for us, it's three. Got it.
Speaker 3: And what I found really revolutionary about that is that
Speaker 3: I think I sort of assumed that it was more
Speaker 3: fifty to fifty, Like I'll aim for two colors, and
Speaker 3: I'll make one my top and one my pants. But no,
Speaker 3: sixty thirty ten, So tell me what that would mean.
Speaker 1: So that would mean my pants are one color and
Speaker 1: my shirt is another color.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what it means. So I went home
Speaker 3: and I tried to put an outfit together based on
Speaker 3: sixty thirty ten. I'm wearing a pair of really bright
Speaker 3: red pants that I've struggled to know what to pair
Speaker 3: them with, And so I put the bright red pants
Speaker 3: with a pink jumper and then with a coat that
Speaker 3: was a checked pattern that had red in It had
Speaker 3: a bit of a blighting outfit, and it totally worked,
Speaker 3: even though it shouldn't have. And I would never have
Speaker 3: thought about it beforehand. Because that brings me to the
Speaker 3: second point she made. It's about how to wear prints.
Speaker 3: When you wear a print, look for the color that
Speaker 3: is the least obvious color in the print. And then
Speaker 3: that's your ten. Bring out that as your ten. So,
Speaker 3: for instance, Holly is wearing a lovely shirt today that's
Speaker 3: got a floral design and the main colors are pink
Speaker 3: and cream, and it's a gray shirt, but there's a
Speaker 3: tiny little bit of mustard in there, and she would say,
Speaker 3: bring out the mustard.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: This sounds tricky but important because it is interesting. Amelia
Speaker 1: walked into the meeting today and we all just exclaimed
Speaker 1: about outfit. And you know, this is a supportive workplace.
Speaker 1: We often tell each other that we look nice. But
Speaker 1: there was a universal cry of approval. And that's because this.
Speaker 3: People cry so beautiful.
Speaker 1: To do.
Speaker 3: And I said, this is just Monday for me.
Speaker 1: It's math, That's what it is.
Speaker 3: It's just math sixty thirty ten, forget fifty to fifty.
Speaker 1: All right, we need some examples of this. That's so
Speaker 1: good because the last time we did colour rules, Amelia,
Speaker 1: was when we all got our colors done. And I
Speaker 1: can't I can't make my head work with it. I
Speaker 1: think I've got some weird color thing going on, because
Speaker 1: you do, I don't understand me. I was trying to
Speaker 1: explain to me the difference between a warm tone and
Speaker 1: a cool about your veins. I don't understand that.
Speaker 2: It's like the undertone of the color that you're looking
Speaker 2: at warm cool that I would say was cool.
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know. I don't understand anyway. But also
Speaker 1: I'm a spring, but I don't like pink, so I'm
Speaker 1: right anyway, So this is very healthy color problems of
Speaker 1: this whole podcast.
Speaker 3: Some how very you that someone sits like type past
Speaker 3: your color is spring, and you're like, I'm a sale.
Speaker 3: I'm not accepting it.
Speaker 1: True, I don't like I don't like rules. I'm not
Speaker 1: having that anyway. Out Louders tell us, we'd love to
Speaker 1: know how you're got to apply it's sixty years please.
Speaker 3: It's actually really fun because then you get to make
Speaker 3: all new outfits that you would never have left.
Speaker 1: Let's have a bit of color therapy in the group.
Speaker 1: That would be great anyway. That is all we have
Speaker 1: time for this Monday. Out Louders, thank you for being
Speaker 1: here with us. As always, we'll be back in your
Speaker 1: ears tomorrow. Bye. Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of
Speaker 1: the land on which we have recorded this podcast.