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Speaker 1: Just challenge yourself, even within the job that you're doing,

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Speaker 1: to do it as well as you possibly can, because

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Speaker 1: people take notice. I take notice of team members who

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Speaker 1: do that. That is one thing I learned at a

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Speaker 1: footy club. Think about what your superpowers are and think

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Speaker 1: about what you're good at and what you bring to

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Speaker 1: the team, and don't worry about the ten things that

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Speaker 1: you can't do because other people can do those instead.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the sees the Yay Podcast.

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Speaker 3: Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too

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Speaker 3: rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then

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Speaker 3: we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize

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Speaker 3: there's more than one way. So this is a platform

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Speaker 3: to hear and explore the stories of those who found

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Speaker 3: lives They adore, the good, bad and ugly.

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Speaker 2: The best and worst day will bear all the facets

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Speaker 2: of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful

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Speaker 2: of Sarah, a lawyer turned unentrepreneur who swapped the suits

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Speaker 2: and heels to co found matcha Maiden and matcha Milk

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Speaker 2: Bark CZA is a series of conversations on finding a

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Speaker 2: life you love and exploring the self out challenge joy

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Speaker 2: and fulfillment.

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Speaker 3: Along the way.

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Speaker 2: Given that International Women's Day fell on a Saturday this year,

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Speaker 2: considered this week's conversation to be our annual dedication episode.

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Speaker 2: And I don't think we could have had a more

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Speaker 2: perfect guest for the occasion than the woman currently holding

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Speaker 2: the highest position that exists in one of the most

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Speaker 2: traditionally male dominated landscapes in Australia, the AFL. We are

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Speaker 2: so lucky to have Laura Kine with us today, the

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Speaker 2: executive General Manager of Football at the AFL since August

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. We so often talk on CZA about

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Speaker 2: how you don't need to know where you'll end up

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Speaker 2: because the job you'll end up having might not even exist. Yet. Well,

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Speaker 2: Laura's did exist, just not for women until she became

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Speaker 2: the first woman to take the reins, then build an

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Speaker 2: executive team around her that's forty percent women, and counting

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Speaker 2: getting her mum to write a letter to her school

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Speaker 2: so she'd be allowed to play oskig instead of netball.

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Speaker 2: Laura's love for footy has been long standing, but growing

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Speaker 2: up before women could play football professionally, she started her

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Speaker 2: professional life in law instead. This wasn't the only thing

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Speaker 2: we had in common either with a career as Stella

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Speaker 2: as hers. I completely expected her to be much older,

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Speaker 2: but it turns out we both grew up in the

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Speaker 2: nineties era of playing Snake on Nokia thirty three tens,

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Speaker 2: and it humbled me immensely to learn that we're the

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Speaker 2: same age as a powerful, intelligent, but incredibly down to

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Speaker 2: earth woman who I actually connected with through and so

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Speaker 2: that gives you an idea already of the kind of legend. Sheers,

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Speaker 2: and thank you so much, Anne for the hookup. I

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Speaker 2: was and still am fangirling so hard. So I will

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Speaker 2: stop myself there before I read out her entire life

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Speaker 2: story and gush my way through an hour without even

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Speaker 2: introducing her. I mean, obviously, she tells her own story

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Speaker 2: way better herself. I hope you guys are as inspired

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Speaker 2: by Laura as I am. Laura Caine, Welcome to Cca.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, it's great to be here.

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Speaker 2: Orcano, I believe is one of the.

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Speaker 1: Names, one of many.

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Speaker 2: That's my so I love that you have an afl wname.

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Speaker 2: You had an AFL name, And then there's I would

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Speaker 2: have called you my learned friend originally back in our

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Speaker 2: legal careers. There's so many hats that you have worn

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Speaker 2: so many and I mean, I'm just so grateful and

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Speaker 2: privileged to have you here as the executive General Manager

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Speaker 2: of Football at the AFL, pretty much the highest role

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Speaker 2: that exists in football. You are a true example. I mean,

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Speaker 2: CZA is all about pathways and how you don't necessarily

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Speaker 2: need to know where you're going to end up when

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Speaker 2: you're younger, and we talk a lot about people who

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Speaker 2: end up in jobs that didn't exist when they were younger.

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Speaker 2: But what's amazing about your stories. Your job did exist,

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Speaker 2: it just didn't exist for women. So it's amazing to

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Speaker 2: sit across from you now and for one of our

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Speaker 2: beautiful co hosts, and to have had a career in

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Speaker 2: football because things have changed since you first went through.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, thank you so much for everything you've done

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Speaker 2: and everything you continue to do. I'm so excited to

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Speaker 2: have you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. That's quite the introduction. I appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we will have done a bio before this also,

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Speaker 2: which is so incredibly impressive. And before I looked you

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Speaker 2: up on Wikipedia doing some research, I thought I'd be

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Speaker 2: sitting across from a fifty year old woman with all

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Speaker 2: the things you've achieved. I'm like, we are the same age.

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Speaker 2: This is so embarrassing you well, it's accomplish.

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Speaker 1: Sure, relative you've achieved an unbelievable amount too, And I

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Speaker 1: listening and I quite enjoy it. I do you really

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Speaker 1: do well.

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Speaker 2: I love that we have that in common, our sort

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Speaker 2: of legal background growing up in the nineties, the fact

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Speaker 2: that our first phones were not here thirty three tens. Like,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of ground that we have to cover here.

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Speaker 2: And I do want to get to you know, your

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Speaker 2: incredible role and how trailblazing that is, and I imagine

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Speaker 2: you know the many challenges you've had to face to

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Speaker 2: get there.

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Speaker 1: But I love to start.

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Speaker 2: Back at the very beginning and trace through all the

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Speaker 2: chapters that came before the one people often meet you

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Speaker 2: in now it looks like it was an overnight success.

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Speaker 2: It never is. And I like to go back through

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Speaker 2: all the things you thought you would be, all the

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Speaker 2: chapters that came earlier, and I think, yeah, showing how

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Speaker 2: the dots connect, even if you don't know it at

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Speaker 2: the time. So take us back to Chanside Park. I

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Speaker 2: didn't realize actually that you had a Greek background and

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Speaker 2: that Caine comes from your Irish side. Tell us about childhood,

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Speaker 2: what did you think you'd be. I definitely don't think

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Speaker 2: it was GM at thefl.

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Speaker 1: I don't think so. You're right. Both my parents and

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Speaker 1: families are bought from overseas, so a Greek background and

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Speaker 1: Irish background. It's a very loud, robust family. So whatever

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Speaker 1: I was, whatever I was going to do, was going

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Speaker 1: to be something that enabled me to be robust as well.

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Speaker 1: But growing up in Chanside Park football was a very

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Speaker 1: big part of my life. I don't think I bought

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Speaker 1: for a very long time that it would be a career,

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Speaker 1: and we can get into that, but I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I was older sister one younger brother. I liked rules,

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Speaker 1: I like following rules. I liked telling him what to do.

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Speaker 1: I don't Finally that weren't afraid of feedback. So maybe

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Speaker 1: the legal career was not a happy accident. It was

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Speaker 1: something that I was destined to do and maybe, yeah,

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Speaker 1: combining that skill set with my love of foot is

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Speaker 1: now seen me get this job. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, I loved looking back at how strong that football

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Speaker 2: connection has been, even if it wasn't necessarily for a career.

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Speaker 2: But you know, you played oz kick when you were younger.

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Speaker 2: I think you had to get your mum to write

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Speaker 2: a letter to let you not do netball. That's right, AF.

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Speaker 1: So that probably is another sign something there.

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Speaker 2: From very you weren't taking no.

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Speaker 1: No, I wasn't.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't And so when you were, you know, starting

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Speaker 2: to think. I think we look back at like our

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Speaker 2: first jobs or your first passions. What did you think

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Speaker 2: that you wanted to be. Was it like astronaut or

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Speaker 2: vallerina or was it football or did you think?

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what my first job was fourteen and

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Speaker 1: nine months.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say it wasn't fourteen and nine moths.

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Speaker 1: Of course it was, but I've never told anyone this,

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Speaker 1: so you'll love this answer. My very first job was

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Speaker 1: data entry at a dating agency. No where I can't

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Speaker 1: even remember, but it was on Victoria Parade. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: far from here, and we used to enter the data

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Speaker 1: from people's profiles and match them. So I did that

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Speaker 1: for about two years. It was through one of my

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Speaker 1: friends at school and we were all just doing data entry,

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Speaker 1: but the content was unbelievable. So I was playing football

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Speaker 1: at the same time and entering dating profiles information for

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Speaker 1: dating profiles was a fifteen year old and.

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Speaker 2: You were doing the matches. Like, imagine if they knew

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Speaker 2: on the other end there was this fifteen year old.

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Speaker 1: I think someone checked it. I think we had to

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Speaker 1: go so well before online dating.

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Speaker 2: So, oh, my goodness, that's not.

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Speaker 1: What I thought I would do, what I thought my

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Speaker 1: career would turn into. But yeah, I had all usual

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Speaker 1: jobs through my teenageys school. I did work experience at

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court when I was in high school and

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Speaker 1: I loved it. So that was always my path from

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Speaker 1: the back end of high school into university, and I

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Speaker 1: never thought I would do anything else. I really loved it.

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Speaker 1: It was footy was probably the only thing that would

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Speaker 1: get me to jump across to something else.

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Speaker 2: Wow, and you did play I think for quite a while.

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Speaker 2: Did you know at the time, I think I listened

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Speaker 2: to you on another podcast that you didn't think it

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Speaker 2: wasn't normal to not be able to have a career,

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Speaker 2: Like at the time, you just kind of accepted that

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Speaker 2: this was going to be my hobby and I'd have

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Speaker 2: to find something else to do. And it's beautiful that

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Speaker 2: now women don't have to or young girls don't have

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Speaker 2: to sort of face that ceiling. But if you think

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Speaker 2: back to that time, was there a moment where you said,

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Speaker 2: I'd love to do that, but I can't. I've got

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Speaker 2: to do something else.

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Speaker 1: I think what I refer to there is you finished

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Speaker 1: playing football with the boys at twelve, and there was

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Speaker 1: no option. So at the time I was too young,

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Speaker 1: and I think you sort of there's nothing that you

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Speaker 1: could have aspired to beyond that, so you didn't even

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Speaker 1: think about it, And that feels a shame, probably quite

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Speaker 1: important in my path and my journey to reflect back on.

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Speaker 1: But there was no option, so you just you picked

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Speaker 1: basketball or apple or changed sports or you know, unfortunately

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Speaker 1: didn't don't play sport for a lot of young girls.

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Speaker 1: So I think being able now to reflect back on

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Speaker 1: young boys and girls who know no different is the

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Speaker 1: most unbelievable part of my job. But yeah, couldn't play.

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Speaker 1: Stopped playing. And then I often tell a story about

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Speaker 1: seeing women training, seenior women training when I was a

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Speaker 1: teenager in high school, just next to the children's hospital,

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Speaker 1: and I can remember it because it's the first time

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Speaker 1: I saw women that weren't young girls actually playing.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, And it just goes to show I

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Speaker 2: think that visibility, Like if you can't see someone else

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Speaker 2: doing it and imagine yourself in those shoes, you can't

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Speaker 2: conceive of yourself having that career. So that moment I've

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Speaker 2: heard you speak about it on another podcast, that you

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Speaker 2: kind of got out your phone and called your mum

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Speaker 2: and were like, girls are playing football, Like yeah, that's.

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Speaker 1: How I knew about Snake, And I was glad to

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Speaker 1: call my mum on the on the tram home. That's it,

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Speaker 1: that's why you would be friends.

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Speaker 2: I was like, Snake was an era in itself. When

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Speaker 2: you speak to someone it was about Snake, you like,

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Speaker 2: we're going to get along. We were alive at that time.

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Speaker 2: So then kind of shifting to your focus, you know,

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Speaker 2: towards the future. I think one of the not sad

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Speaker 2: because it often it sort of lays foundations for things

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Speaker 2: later on. But one of the difficult things I think

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Speaker 2: that happens in high school is we do like I

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Speaker 2: was a ballerina in my first iteration of me, and

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Speaker 2: you do kind of start to stop making decisions based

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Speaker 2: on what you love and what you're good at and

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Speaker 2: what lights you up, and start to think about what's successful,

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Speaker 2: what's going to be a respectable career and what should

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Speaker 2: I do? You kind of they can marry out, but

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Speaker 2: I don't think we often know that at that stage

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Speaker 2: of our lives. So when you did start to think

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Speaker 2: about law, what do you think guided you into that?

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Speaker 2: Was it because it was sensible? I think your mum

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Speaker 2: was a lawyer. Were you influenced by that or was

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Speaker 2: it just that I can't play footy, I've got to

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Speaker 2: do something else.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So interestingly on my mum, she was an academic

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Speaker 1: and after she helped me proof free to signments and

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Speaker 1: get through my degree, she went back to UNI in

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Speaker 1: her fifties and became my life.

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Speaker 2: So you started it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, that's amazing her following in my footsteps. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I was really interested in studying law. I was really

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Speaker 1: interested in the profession. I'm not sure. At the time,

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Speaker 1: as a teenager, I was thinking about what's the long

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Speaker 1: term career trajectory, but obviously it was a good one.

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Speaker 1: So I knew that it was something that if I

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Speaker 1: could get into and I could achieve through the back

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Speaker 1: end of high school and at UNI, that it would

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Speaker 1: set me up for what you would pop in the

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Speaker 1: successful career or the possibility to have a successful career

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Speaker 1: at the time, having no comprehension of the skills that

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Speaker 1: you learn, and you would know this through a law

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Speaker 1: degree and even through practicing for a couple of years

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Speaker 1: that help you in so many other ways. And the

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Speaker 1: problem solving and the advocacy and calmness and the sort

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Speaker 1: of the clinical approach sometimes to issues now is something

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Speaker 1: you know everyone should do it if they could, or

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Speaker 1: because you learned so much. But I really enjoyed practicing.

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed it as a career and like I said before,

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Speaker 1: I probably would still be doing it if it wasn't

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Speaker 1: for this sport. So yeah, I'm not sure it had

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Speaker 1: some sense of justice or something happening as a teenager.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if it was older sister syndrome

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Speaker 1: or what. Yeah, I all must be right in this way.

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Speaker 1: I think it was all heading in one direction.

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Speaker 2: Did you face and before we come to sort of

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Speaker 2: the big pivot, did you have any family influence over

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Speaker 2: that kind of decision making at the time, Because I

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Speaker 2: know a lot of people who grow up with families

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Speaker 2: like as first generation have sort of this sense of

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Speaker 2: I need to make the most of my time here

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Speaker 2: or get swayed or feel like you know, you want

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Speaker 2: about your parents fright, like was there any influence of

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Speaker 2: your family on what you were going to do or

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Speaker 2: were they very support.

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Speaker 1: They're very supportive. In fact, I can remember as a teenager,

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Speaker 1: I remember asking my mum what subjects I should do

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Speaker 1: in year twelve and she said, I can't tell you.

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Speaker 1: You have to decide, and I remember being upset. I

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Speaker 1: remember the conversation and saying, why can't you just tell

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Speaker 1: me that it's up to you? Do you make my decisions?

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Speaker 1: So you have to decide And so that again, at

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Speaker 1: the time, you don't know sort of what that kind

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Speaker 1: of guidance does or how it helps you, but it

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Speaker 1: does help you. My parents would let us do anything.

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Speaker 1: So we had drum kits, we had bass guitars, we

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Speaker 1: had footballs, basketballs, We did every random activity you could

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Speaker 1: think of, sometimes for a short time, sometimes for a

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Speaker 1: long time. But you know, they would drive us around,

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Speaker 1: drop us off, said yes to everything. So I'm very

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Speaker 1: grateful for that because I think it also in the

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Speaker 1: back of your mind, you always think that you can

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Speaker 1: because you've never been told no or no one sort

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Speaker 1: of stopped you. And I think I could do anything,

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Speaker 1: and they would be proud. So I'm lucky.

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Speaker 2: I love that my family were very much the same

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Speaker 2: and we've had a hobby of all kinds and so

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Speaker 2: much equipment and so much commitment to them driving us around.

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Speaker 2: And now I'm like, oh, I've got to pay that

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Speaker 2: forward as a parent. Oh my goodness. But I think

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Speaker 2: it does really influence how you perceive yourself and how

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Speaker 2: you perceive trying new things, and your risk tolerance is

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Speaker 2: higher because you've tried everything. You know, you've been used

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Speaker 2: to sort of trying things and maybe not everything sticks,

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Speaker 2: and it's okay to kind of bounce around.

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Speaker 1: It's a privilege too. You have to not forget that,

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Speaker 1: and we talk about it a lot from community football.

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Speaker 1: People are on their own journey and it's not easy

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Speaker 1: for everyone. So whatever we can do to create a

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Speaker 1: straight line a pathway for people just to play footy

305
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Speaker 1: is what we should try and aspire to because we

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Speaker 1: know that off the field, so to speak, is not

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Speaker 1: always as easy.

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Speaker 2: And I love that the common thread in your career

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Speaker 2: seems to have been that you've been incredibly passionate about

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Speaker 2: the game and about every aspect of it, but that

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Speaker 2: it's always been about more than football. It's been very

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Speaker 2: much about the impact you can make and the change

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Speaker 2: you can make in people's lives off the field as well,

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Speaker 2: which we'll get too, But first let's just touch on

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Speaker 2: the legal career, because I didn't know that you'd started

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Speaker 2: out as a layern and I did a bit more research,

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Speaker 2: and I love that you were also someone who wasn't

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Speaker 2: a corporate refugee because you hated it. I think a

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Speaker 2: lot of ex lawyers the narrative is it was oppressive.

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Speaker 2: I didn't like it. I was making other people money.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's so many narratives that come out of

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Speaker 2: ex lawyers. And I also actually quite enjoyed practicing. I

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Speaker 2: think there were lots of parts of it that were

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Speaker 2: really enjoyable, and you were doing incredibly impactful work that started,

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Speaker 2: I think in your work experience with Victoria Legal Aid.

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Speaker 2: So talk us through working on a commission and what

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Speaker 2: it was like to feel like you'd found something that

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Speaker 2: you really did like, but then be head hunted and

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Speaker 2: pulled in a different direction without looking for it. I

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Speaker 2: think that's quite unusual.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I did love it. I felt passionate

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Speaker 1: about the work that we were doing. I started at

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Speaker 1: a firm called Wala Legal when I was in a

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Speaker 1: UNI as a paralegal and interned there throughout and then

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Speaker 1: ended up practicing there for a couple of years, and

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Speaker 1: that coincided with the Royal Commission, which was incredibly difficult

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Speaker 1: and for so many people, such a harrowing time. I

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Speaker 1: say that I loved it. I didn't love the stories

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Speaker 1: I was listening to. I didn't love the issues we

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Speaker 1: were dealing with. I didn't love that people had had

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Speaker 1: these lived experiences. But I loved that we could help them,

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Speaker 1: or that they felt heard, or that they had advocacy.

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Speaker 1: They could be anonymous to receive that help and support,

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Speaker 1: and I think that was one of the most important

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Speaker 1: parts of the Commission, that even though the subject matter

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Speaker 1: was horrific and horrendous, it was really important for people.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes people were telling you stories that they'd never

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Speaker 1: told anyone. And so I think being young and being

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Speaker 1: in that environment taught me so much and so much

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Speaker 1: more than I realized at the time. But the firm

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Speaker 1: that I was working for was unbelievable, and I just

352
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Speaker 1: I had so much responsibility. But I think we really

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Speaker 1: valued that responsibility because it was people's lives I would

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Speaker 1: still be doing it if it wasn't, as you said,

355
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Speaker 1: a complete curve ball at the back end of the

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Speaker 1: Royal Commission, and certainly not something that I thought I

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Speaker 1: would be changing into immediately post that inquiry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's reassuring for anyone who is in

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Speaker 2: law or aiming for law that you know, you do

360
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Speaker 2: hear a lot of stories of people who don't enjoy it,

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Speaker 2: but you can make incredibly meaningful, enjoyable careers in law.

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Speaker 2: You do not have to leave everyone. And that is

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Speaker 2: never what I'm trying to say, just because it turned

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Speaker 2: out for us. Obviously, it's not always something you have

365
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Speaker 2: to walk away from. At the time, did you face

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Speaker 2: any I think you were very very young to be

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Speaker 2: working on something so heavy and with such serious consequences,

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Speaker 2: And by contrast, in commercial law, I had a lot

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Speaker 2: more leeway to learn and not feel like, you know,

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Speaker 2: if I made a mistake, that it was going to

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Speaker 2: have such serious consequences. In that context, the term imposter

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Speaker 2: syndrome more self doubt is quite different. I think for you,

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Speaker 2: did you feel that when you first went into the

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Speaker 2: industry and were given so much responsibility on something so

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Speaker 2: serious so quickly and how did you cope with that

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Speaker 2: feeling of I'm really making a difference in people's lives.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean yes and no. Our principalslicitor was unbelievable,

378
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Speaker 1: and she led all of us and ultimately was responsible

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Speaker 1: for what was happening and representing our clients. But sometimes

380
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Speaker 1: you would think, goodness, this is heavy and this is hard.

381
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Speaker 1: But then very quickly would realize that whatever approach I

382
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,840
Speaker 1: was taking, or whatever my natural instinct was in say

383
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Speaker 1: an interview or meeting with a client, was working. And

384
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Speaker 1: I noticed that there felt a sense of calm and safety,

385
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Speaker 1: and that was representative of the firm, not just me.

386
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Speaker 1: But I started to realize that when people are delivering

387
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Speaker 1: really emotional, difficult, stressful, hard information, how you are and

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Speaker 1: how you receive it is probably the most important thing.

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Speaker 1: And it's not a comparison now, but we also deal

390
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Speaker 1: with very stressful, very difficult, very high pressured situations, just

391
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,639
Speaker 1: completely different topic. And so, to be honest, I'm not

392
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Speaker 1: sure I was old enough to work through im imposter syndrome.

393
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Speaker 1: That probably comes a little bit later you aren't even

394
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Speaker 1: aware I'm enough of it, But I remember reflecting on

395
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Speaker 1: the fact that the way you are and the way

396
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Speaker 1: you receive information, and almost if you can sort of

397
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,560
Speaker 1: click into gear when someone is highly distressed, you can

398
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,959
Speaker 1: navigate situations in a much better way and you can

399
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Speaker 1: sort of put them at ease much more quickly. And

400
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Speaker 1: I think it was the style that I realized worked

401
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,200
Speaker 1: with the support of all of our lawyers and everybody

402
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Speaker 1: else who worked on the cases themselves.

403
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Speaker 2: Yeah, which has obviously set you in very good stead

404
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,520
Speaker 2: for every chapter that came back. In fact, so the

405
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,680
Speaker 2: big sliding doors moment. I often you will be intoviewing

406
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,199
Speaker 2: a guest and they have been sort of trying to

407
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,160
Speaker 2: generate a change or generate a pivot in their life.

408
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,440
Speaker 2: They're looking for some kind of big change, but sometimes

409
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,639
Speaker 2: they fall in your lap. And I think part of

410
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 2: it is positioning yourself well to always be open to

411
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:09,120
Speaker 2: the right opportunities. But also there's having a you know,

412
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,119
Speaker 2: I love the word that you said. I think it

413
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,760
Speaker 2: was in League Leaders about professionalizing your hobby, And that's

414
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,680
Speaker 2: something that comes up a lot on this show because

415
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,360
Speaker 2: it works for some people. Some people it doesn't. They

416
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,919
Speaker 2: want their passion to stay their hobby so that it

417
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 2: doesn't have deliverables and expectations and all that kind of thing.

418
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Speaker 2: For you, it came out of being headhunted. Now that

419
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,400
Speaker 2: is extraordinary. You were in an industry that wasn't related

420
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 2: to football, but you've been playing football, you'd coach, like,

421
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 2: how did that all come about? Most of us don't

422
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Speaker 2: even know that football administrators exist, but of course they

423
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:41,439
Speaker 2: do well.

424
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Speaker 1: I certainly didn't at the time.

425
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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously someone has to run the show, but

426
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Speaker 2: you just don't think about that.

427
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Speaker 1: I was playing footy at Melbourne UNI and coaching at

428
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,679
Speaker 1: Melbourne UNI. We had formed a partnership the women on

429
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,679
Speaker 1: the committee before me and our era, if you like,

430
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,920
Speaker 1: had formed a really great relationship with Northmanelburn Football Club.

431
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,360
Speaker 1: And there's a story that doctor sonyah Hood, who's now

432
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,240
Speaker 1: the president of the club, shares around lots of different

433
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: clubs coming to the North Melbourne Footy Club asking to

434
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,640
Speaker 1: train on the oval Adam Street's amazing.

435
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:13,239
Speaker 2: You know, we don't have a lot of time there.

436
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't have enough ovals and would just ask

437
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 1: for access and our club was the first club to

438
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,440
Speaker 1: ask for access. But also say that the players and

439
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 1: the women, most of whom were at UNI or studying

440
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 1: or professionals in their own right would volunteer at the huddle,

441
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 1: which was not his North Melbourne's community, which is unbelievably

442
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 1: impactful and so Sonya reflects on that often to say,

443
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 1: it's the first group of people that said we can

444
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 1: help you and if you can help us. So we

445
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 1: were training there. What coincided with that period of time

446
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 1: was the AFL announcing the AFL W competition and in

447
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, I think people thought it would be twenty twenty,

448
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 1: it would start in twenty twenty, and in twenty sixteen

449
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 1: Gil announced it for the following year. Was very quick.

450
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,399
Speaker 1: It's a very girl thing to do, but it was

451
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: the best thing. It was the best thing we now

452
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 1: ever did. And so I got to know the footy

453
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 1: club in their bid for a license and was meeting

454
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 1: with their CEO to help put together the application from

455
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 1: the perspective of the women's club that were most closely

456
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,919
Speaker 1: aligned to North and we had a couple of meetings

457
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 1: where we were racking our brains trying to work out

458
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 1: who we would approach to run the program. And I'm

459
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 1: trying to think of people and one of my very

460
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 1: good friends who was on the committee and working in

461
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 1: the huddle at the time, so it was connected to

462
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 1: these conversations said what about you do it nice? It

463
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: just did never occurred to me, and she also asked

464
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,400
Speaker 1: that question of the CEO. And then fast forward three

465
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,199
Speaker 1: months and I wasn't a lawyer anymore and I was

466
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: walking into a footy club and thought, what have I done?

467
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 1: I don't know what's happened here. That's also fast, yeah,

468
00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 1: really quick, really really quick, and it was great. It's

469
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: the best thing I ever did. But at the time

470
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:04,880
Speaker 1: was I think I wore a blazer on my first

471
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,919
Speaker 1: day and realized no one wears and they wear shorts

472
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:13,239
Speaker 1: and T shirts that are commonly branded. But yeah, it

473
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: was a very big adjustment.

474
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my gosh. Well that's I think another thing

475
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 2: that I'd love to to sort of break down a

476
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 2: little bit, and that's the decision making process. It's so

477
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 2: overwhelmingly hard to make decisions that a lot of the

478
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,959
Speaker 2: time in life things aren't mutually exclusive. You can go

479
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 2: along doing both for as life. And that's my attitude

480
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 2: is be a yes person. Just say yes to all

481
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 2: of it, and then you never have to make a decision.

482
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,199
Speaker 2: It's a great method until inevitably one has to be

483
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 2: full time and one you know you can't keep doing

484
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 2: both when you love both and you want to say

485
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 2: yes to both, that's when it gets really hard. It's

486
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 2: easy if you want to leave Lauren jump, but if

487
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 2: you don't, necessarily you are walking away from something that

488
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 2: you've spent a lot of time building reputation and a

489
00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 2: skill set and a life path in your mind. How

490
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 2: did you decide? Was it like making pros and cons list?

491
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 2: Was a consulting family and friends? Was it I do

492
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 2: like a future regret management kind of thing. What will

493
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 2: myself in fifty years regret or be glad about? What's

494
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,199
Speaker 2: the once in a lifetime opportunity? Did you think that

495
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 2: far into it? I did, Yeah, I wish it like

496
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 2: an instinct.

497
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 1: I don't even do that now, so I should I

498
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 1: should probably think feather ahead. No, I'm an instinct operator,

499
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: and I often think you can only make the best

500
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 1: decision that you can make at the time, and so

501
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: when you reflect on decisions, it's usually because you have

502
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: either more time or well, you do have more time,

503
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 1: but usually it's because you have more information. And so

504
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: I try not to be harder myself for others because

505
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 1: you can only you would make a better decision if

506
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 1: you had that information, but you didn't, and so I

507
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 1: try not to reflect too much backwards. You know, obviously

508
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: you trying to get better. It felt easy at the time.

509
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: It felt easy. I'd played footy with the boys. I

510
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: couldn't play than I could play. I'd played for a

511
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: couple of years. I was on the committee. It was

512
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: what I did for fun. I looked forward to it.

513
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: I would leave work and look forward to going to

514
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: footy training, look forward to go going to games on

515
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: the weekend. It didn't feel like a chore. And so

516
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 1: when there was an opportunity to do that and get

517
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: paid for it, I thought, well, this feels easy. All

518
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 1: this feels like an easy decision. But it was daunting

519
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 1: just from the perspective of no one understood what the

520
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: job was. It's really easy, and you would know this.

521
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 1: It's really easy to meet people and say I'm a lawyer.

522
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: It's really easy, and they don't even really need to

523
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: know what area or and you know how broad being

524
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: a lawyer is, but it's really easy. It's really hard

525
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: to say I work at Northmaburn Football Club. We didn't

526
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: get an AFLW license. That's why I came to the club.

527
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 1: So now I look after academies. No, it's not in

528
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: the girls. It's in the boys. Now I'm in Tasmine.

529
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 1: It's really you need.

530
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 2: A PowerPoint on like at USB to be like here,

531
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 2: here's story.

532
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: That's right. And so yes, I just talked to the

533
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: players every day. Yes, I talked to the coaches. People

534
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: don't it didn't understand it the time. So easy decision.

535
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: A little bit hard to navigate early doors when we

536
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: didn't get a license, but it's the best thing that

537
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: happened to us because we had more time to look

538
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: and watch and analyze and do it better the next

539
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: time when we finally did. So. Yeah, very interesting time.

540
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 2: I mean I can't imagine going from working on a

541
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:25,719
Speaker 2: royal commission and then just three months later just walking

542
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 2: in to a job in football, right, yeah, in a

543
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 2: blazer walking into a gym and a blazer.

544
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: Day what is my job? Was in a T shirt?

545
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: Very quickly shorts.

546
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. So I think were you like mid

547
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 2: twenties around this time, twenty six and that's young as well,

548
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Okay, so this is where a lot

549
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 2: of people I think would then kind of have that

550
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 2: self doubt imposter syndrome thing really hit hard. You've changed industries,

551
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 2: you haven't necessarily gone You've gone to UNI for your

552
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,400
Speaker 2: law degree. I think it's very straightforward how you become

553
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 2: a lawyer, how you become a job that no one

554
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 2: knows what that means is not a straightforward and the

555
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 2: skill set that you need when you don't know what

556
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 2: the job is is even more complex. When you arrived

557
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 2: and sort of was, you know, brand new to this

558
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 2: whole environment, how did you feel any self doubt? Firstly,

559
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 2: how did you cope with like the quick upskilling? What

560
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 2: was your did you have mentors? I think that's a

561
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: big change leaving the law as you go from having

562
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 2: a senior associate a partner, like there's such a clear

563
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 2: hierarchy of knowledge. And then in most industries outside of

564
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 2: it is not a structured necessarily, especially not when you're

565
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 2: like president. You know you're very senior from the beginning.

566
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 2: How did you navigate it?

567
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 1: I remember the first week I said to my manager

568
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: in my old job, we would have quite regular supervision.

569
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: Was a regular part of your week? And I said,

570
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 1: so can we meet twice a week, and I remember

571
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: him just looking at me saying, probably not. We're probably

572
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: not doing that here. That's a no. But the big

573
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: things that exist in a footy club that I wish

574
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: every organization in the world adopted. It's a team, so

575
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: you're part of it. You are literally part of a team,

576
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: and everyone is trying to work together to achieve the

577
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 1: same thing, which is win, have a good culture, run

578
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: a good program, create good people. And so straight away

579
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: we're moving into an environment, a team environment. You feel

580
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: supported regardless of your job. At that point, I'm now

581
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: wearing all the same colors as them in the uniform.

582
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 2: You'd grown into the ditch. Nice. But that's step one

583
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 2: in dropping the MPOs.

584
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: The other superpower that I see our players have is

585
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: their ability to give and receive feedback. And it is

586
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: completely understated because I don't know of any other industry

587
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: in the world that every single day, every minute of

588
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: the day, every meeting, every clip, every minute of a

589
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: game is how do we do this better? How do

590
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: we get better, how do we win? How do we

591
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: overcome this adversity? And so it was a really safe

592
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: place to not really know what you were doing, because

593
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: they wanted you to succeed, they being the club. More broadly,

594
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: they wanted me to succeed. Once you're in, you're part

595
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: of the team. And the environment was one that I

596
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: was used to, which was robust feedback that never ends,

597
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: which is my family in a professional capacity. So I

598
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: say to players now all the time, when you're going

599
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: for job interviews or you're meeting with people after football,

600
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: that is the one thing, outside of being the most

601
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: punctual organized people on the planet, you have a superpower

602
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: that other people would love to have, or love in

603
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: their business, or love in their environment. So I could

604
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: work it out, and I quickly realized too, that the

605
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: approach is really important. It's a high pressure situation with

606
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: a lot of scrutiny, So being calm and trying to

607
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: be pragmatic and receiving that pressure and sort of providing

608
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: a calm answer or being as thoughtful as I could worked.

609
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: And it was the same kind of environment, just really

610
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: different subject matter.

611
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh my gosh, I love that. The transition was

612
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 2: really really positive.

613
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: It was really good.

614
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 2: Any breakdowns along the way or probably.

615
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: There were so many. There were so many good times.

616
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: We had a lot of change and a lot of

617
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: hard times at North Melbourne. I learned a lot from

618
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: that too, a lot of change in leadership, and that's

619
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: often what people reflect on us. Really hard moments. We

620
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: had hard off field moments, We had hard people moments.

621
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: But you just learn from them and try to take

622
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: what you can and it helps you know. When I

623
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: got to the AFL, it wasn't a short time later.

624
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: We had a leadership change, and I watched some people

625
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: react in a particular way because it creates uncertainty, and

626
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: rightly or wrongly, I was used to it North Melbourne,

627
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: and so you learn a set of skills that you

628
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: wouldn't otherwise learn unless you lived it. Footy clubs are

629
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: an unbelievable place. They're so good, they're so much fun,

630
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: are so supportive, and they all want to do the

631
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: same thing. They want to win, and it's an amazing

632
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: thing to experience and be part of.

633
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, well, how special to have made a

634
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,479
Speaker 2: move into something that you've loved for so long and

635
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 2: that didn't seem like it was on the cards to

636
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: be part of your future. To then have just jumped back,

637
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 2: sort of done this full circle, backhead first into it.

638
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 2: And I love that when you were born. I think

639
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 2: it was you were born across the road from the

640
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 2: mcg and you were held up to the window and said, like,

641
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 2: we hear something about Collingwood winning, but.

642
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: Collin would win a premiership here in three months.

643
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then old yeah yeah, And then to see

644
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 2: you then sort of now head of the football in

645
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 2: the country, you know, is just really special and extraordinary.

646
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 2: But as you mentioned, like footy clubs are such an

647
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 2: exciting place to be, but where or used to watching

648
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 2: them from the outside. We kind of come to the

649
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 2: game at the end of the process of all the

650
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 2: things that have happened pre season, like in the off season,

651
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 2: and then you know, making it to actually game round

652
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 2: one to sort of get to the finale. Can you

653
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 2: talk us through the roles that you had from is

654
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 2: it Muggers? Is that what they call it?

655
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: You can call it that. That's the cool name? Is

656
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: that the call? Is that the core name Melbourn Girls

657
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: Aussie Rules squad.

658
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 2: Oh, is that where I can start?

659
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: So Muggers?

660
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, So from Muggers andrel Krune that I use.

661
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: That she will too and Muggers run very good.

662
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 2: And then getting the AFLW license and then sort of

663
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 2: being part of that really foundational for years of the

664
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 2: AFLW and then moving into into the AFL like talk

665
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 2: us through your roles and what they were as you

666
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: kind of change because we don't know. Yeah people, I

667
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 2: think that same visibility thing. Other people won't know they

668
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 2: could have this job in the future if they don't

669
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 2: know what it is.

670
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. So North Melbourne I started in the boys academy space.

671
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: We'd missed a license for the AFIW competition, but we

672
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: I still looked after women's footy and that was the

673
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: relationship with the Muggers malwourn UNI, and then relatively quickly

674
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: moved into a football operations role, which a lot of

675
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: people aspire to do and people, particularly in the sports

676
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: administration stream which I wasn't as familiar with, aspire to

677
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: do those jobs. And they're really really hard jobs and

678
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: really good jobs. So football operations for the men's and

679
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: then that just started to expand through my time at

680
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: North Melbourne, so we went standalone in our state league program.

681
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: In the men's we'd had the relationship with Melbourne UNI,

682
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: so I got experience setting up programs and clubs and

683
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: teams for the first time. We then did the same

684
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: with AFLW and that was a really enjoyable experience. We

685
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: went a bit wild recruiting players and got players from

686
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: everywhere and it was a lot of fun. But I

687
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: learned a lot of things. Being able to work in

688
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: the men's program as we were setting up these other

689
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: programs helped, and I probably realized that the unlock to

690
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,959
Speaker 1: doing something like afiw WOW was making sure the boys

691
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: were integrated and on board and understanding of the importance.

692
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: So we had players involved in our list recruiting, list

693
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: management and acquisition of players, which was really cool. It

694
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,919
Speaker 1: was really really good, and they got very competitive when

695
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: we challenged them to go and get the best players

696
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: from other teams.

697
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 2: It's like fantasy football, but like you get to real life.

698
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: Were going to play. We were in contact just a

699
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: few months ago when the girls played in their grand final.

700
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: One of the boys is still at the club, but

701
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: the rest of them moved on to different clubs or

702
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 1: different programs or different careers, but we stayed connected over

703
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: building that team. So yeah, football operations at the back

704
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: end of North Melbourne. It moved into more broader club strategy,

705
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: which I really enjoyed and exposed me to a whole

706
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: heap of other things across the consumer, commercial, membership, media realms,

707
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,800
Speaker 1: but always had a big interest in football, so looked

708
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: at the strategy around list management and recruiting and acquisition

709
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 1: of players and how do you build a team that

710
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 1: can win. At that time in the Boys, we needed

711
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: to rebuild and at the time in the Girls we

712
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: were trying to win one. So we're in really different phases.

713
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you were doing both, just doing both all

714
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 2: at the same time.

715
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're redeveloping the facility. So I got a lot

716
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: of really great opportunities to get experiences in all different

717
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: parts of running a footy club, and then joined the

718
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: AFL in twenty twenty one, where that sort of all

719
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: came together from a competition management perspective.

720
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh my gosh, So how did that shift happen?

721
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 2: Because I think one of the things that you mentioned

722
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 2: in one of the podcasts was that there's often a

723
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 2: negative connotation around switching from AFLW to men like women's

724
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 2: to men's or men's to women's, and that you said

725
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 2: it as a really positive thing. But was that a

726
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: shift you were looking at. Was it something that you

727
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 2: like in your growth at the level of your career,

728
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 2: you wanted to move to a new position. How did

729
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 2: the change happen?

730
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: I was at North. The CEO at the time said,

731
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: as a people leader, as a manager, you should always

732
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: buyer to make yourself redundant, so you should always push

733
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: your staff. And then I might have done a pretty

734
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 1: good job of that because I didn't really know what

735
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: my job was going to be and made it up.

736
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was ready.

737
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: I even have handed over all of these things and

738
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 1: now I don't really know what I'm supposed to do.

739
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 1: But it was a good thing because we were able

740
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: to develop our young staff. I think the shift to

741
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: the AFL was twofold. I was feeling like I could

742
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,320
Speaker 1: contribute more to the broader competition. And I've had a

743
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: pretty good experience at North for nearly seven years, learning

744
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: about how the programs run and how to set them

745
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: up and so on. But I was also at the

746
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: time the AFL were running women's leadership program called JENW

747
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: and it was for a small group of women in

748
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: the industry, all parts of the industry. But a part

749
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: of that program was that you were assigned a sponsor,

750
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: so not a mentor, but a sponsor. Senior males and

751
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: females in the industry, and it was quite coordinated and organized,

752
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: so your relationship with your sponsor was mapped out and

753
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: the questions that you would talk about in your meetings

754
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: were prepared. And over the year I found that being

755
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: in an environment like that helps extract so much more

756
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: advice and good conversation than just sort of the networking

757
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 1: coffee fee. Yeah, and so my sponsor was Andrew Dillon,

758
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: So it's probably not a surprise now he's been you know,

759
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: I've been in his team the whole time I've been

760
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: at the AFL, but that transition was made much easier

761
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 1: moving into his team when he looked after football.

762
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 2: And I think that's a great point as well, that

763
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 2: the networking coffee is something that I'm a big proponent of.

764
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 2: It can lead you to relationships you don't even need

765
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 2: to go into it thinking that you know what you

766
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 2: want to get out of it. I think always networking

767
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 2: before you need it is a really it will stand

768
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 2: you in good stead because you know, the more contacts

769
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 2: you have, the better place you are, I think to

770
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 2: achieve whatever you want to. But having conversations that are

771
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 2: structured and with particular people that have planned you know,

772
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 2: you do get a lot more out of it. And

773
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 2: also there are pivotal people at every junction along your career.

774
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 2: I think that guide you towards the next thing that

775
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 2: you're going to do. What would you say to anyone

776
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 2: from the outside who wants to kind of follow in

777
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 2: your footsteps about positioning themselves to kind of end up?

778
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 2: You've gone from being outside of football altogether to like

779
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 2: the top role in the whole league. How did you

780
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 2: position yourself? Was it networking coffees outside of the mentors

781
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 2: that you had inside the league? Was it people outside

782
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 2: of football?

783
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 3: Like?

784
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 2: How were you constantly kind of working yourself towards this

785
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 2: and were you working yourself towards it? Did you sort

786
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 2: of want that top position or was it just kept coming?

787
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 2: These opportunities just kept presenting themselves.

788
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: Obviously was thoughtful around the path that I would take,

789
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: but probably the opportunities kept coming, And so I reflect

790
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: on why did that happen? Or why did the opportunities

791
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: keep coming? It's not a role I didn't aspire to.

792
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: It's just that I didn't think it would be possible

793
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: and the time frame or available. I think you to

794
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: go back a step, if you know working in our industry.

795
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: There are unbelievable people with decades and decades and decades

796
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: of experience, and the most common story if you speak

797
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 1: to someone in a football department, they all start at

798
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: community football. Everyone has a community club. Everyone has had

799
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: some experience with state leagues, everyone has had some experience

800
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 1: with clubland. And that's slow and hard, and that's the

801
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 1: part that I think can be glossed over. And people

802
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: sort of coming in in leadership positions are certainly possible,

803
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:36,959
Speaker 1: and we're always looking at ways we can bring people

804
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 1: from outside the industry in for new ideas. I've done

805
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 1: a lot of work. More than fifty percent of our

806
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 1: obsenior leaders are women now in our industry, and it's

807
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: something that you know. It's up from sixteen percent in

808
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. It's a huge jump. That's hush so AFIW

809
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: has done unbelievable things for our industry, for women in

810
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: our industry. But I think you still have to do

811
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: the hard yards. And it helps you because do you

812
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: understand at the end of the road, how it's all connected.

813
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 1: We're in the really fortunate position to look after everything

814
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,959
Speaker 1: from OZ kick. The first time you know a young

815
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 1: child picks up the footy and plays. I was kick

816
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 1: all the way through to you can be Andrew Dillon

817
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 1: and the CEO of the AFL and where responsible for

818
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: all of it. And I think that's also a privilege

819
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: and something that we take seriously. But I sort of

820
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: focused on just do your job really well, the job

821
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 1: that you have, what's right in front of you. And

822
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 1: we used to say it when we're volunteering on the

823
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: committee at Melbourne UNI, but do your job one hundred percent,

824
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: you know, well before you start looking at other things

825
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 1: or or trying to get involved in other stuff for

826
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 1: changing jobs. And I've taken that approach. I've tried to

827
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: think differently about things, tried to bring a different lens,

828
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 1: and over the journey in you know, nearly a decade now,

829
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: it's worked and people really relelnded to it and people

830
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:59,959
Speaker 1: who have found that alternate perspective helpful. So we last

831
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 1: on this. But my team often talk about I think

832
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: good leadership is that you're consistent and that you are

833
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: predictable in the way that you respond behave think But

834
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: I think ideas should be unpredictable, so you should know

835
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 1: lots about lots of different things. You should throw in

836
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: different ideas about different sports. You should challenge conversations with ideas,

837
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: and have a predictability in the way that you behave

838
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: and that you respond and your approach and that you

839
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:35,720
Speaker 1: treat people, but be totally unpredictable with ideas and picture thinking.

840
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: And yeah, so yeah, I think style has worked for me.

841
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 2: I think that's so interesting because often most of us

842
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 2: struggle with quite quite a bit. Is that tension between

843
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 2: ambition for more while also sort of still performing in

844
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 2: where you are, and people have a lot of trouble

845
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 2: accepting well I do anyway, is sometimes I'm really enjoying

846
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,720
Speaker 2: where I am, but I also I want to be better,

847
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 2: and like you're always striving for more and what's the

848
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 2: next thing? And our heads spend a lot of time

849
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 2: like projecting into the future. But then I think that's

850
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 2: really good advice is also just the job that you're in,

851
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 2: Like do it one hundred percent and learn everything you

852
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 2: can in it, and you don't always need to be

853
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 2: like what's next, what's next? And we've become so inst

854
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,399
Speaker 2: gratuity focused that I think we all want to get

855
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 2: to the end really quickly. But those hard yards are

856
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 2: where you learned, you've done every role in the chain

857
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 2: that you now coordinate, and that I'm sure gives you

858
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:32,879
Speaker 2: an insight that you wouldn't have had if you kind

859
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 2: of just come in that's right and gone.

860
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:35,919
Speaker 1: Straight to the top. That's right.

861
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 2: And there's something to be said for time, like laying

862
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 2: down the time, just.

863
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: Being content and you know, for a while then football

864
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: operations was my job, and it was getting the players

865
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: from A to B and communicating with them. And it

866
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: can feel relatively straightforward, but find the best most efficient

867
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: way you can do it. Get information to people as

868
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: quickly as you can. So just challenge yourself, even within

869
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: the job that you're doing, to do it as well

870
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: as you possibly can. Because people take notice. Yeah I do.

871
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,359
Speaker 1: I take notice of team members who do that.

872
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. So, speaking of taking notice from a workplace perspective,

873
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,399
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of conversation, particularly for women,

874
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 2: around asking for things when you do want the promotion,

875
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 2: or you do want to pay rise, or you do

876
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 2: feel like you've reached one hundred percent or one hundred

877
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 2: and ten percent or a hundred fifty percent of what

878
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 2: you're doing, and then it isn't getting noticed or you

879
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 2: aren't sort of getting propelled towards where you might want

880
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 2: to go. And you've faced an extra layer of being

881
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 2: not just a woman in an industry where when you

882
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 2: were coming up in the nineties there were no females

883
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 2: pretty much in the AFL, and being a young female

884
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 2: adds a whole nother layer to the grounds for skepticism

885
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 2: or for criticism, or for people just not believing that

886
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,760
Speaker 2: you can do it. What's your advice to other women

887
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 2: in football, but then other women in any industry, and

888
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 2: anyone in an industry where they're going into something where

889
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 2: there's a chance that you know, they'll face obstacles, doubt,

890
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 2: or maybe even people actively trying to not support you

891
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 2: to get there.

892
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really good question. I get asked this

893
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 1: a lot. And sometimes you have to put the blinkers on,

894
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,280
Speaker 1: is what I'll say. And sometimes you have to block

895
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: out too much noise. But if you reflect on the

896
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,919
Speaker 1: fact that you don't often hire yourself, so someone else

897
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: has put you in a position, or other people have

898
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: decided that you are capable, and you should remember that.

899
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 1: And I think that's often glossed over that you get

900
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 1: a position, but you have to someone had to hire

901
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 1: you to get the position. Yeah, unless're running your own business.

902
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 1: So take comfort in people who would seemingly have more

903
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 1: senior roles than you or with different levels of responsibility,

904
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: have backed you in. And don't forget that because that's

905
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: ultimately why you're there, because they think you can do it. Yeah,

906
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: and they will be responsible for what you do, so

907
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: they wouldn't put you there if they didn't think that

908
00:44:55,560 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 1: you could do it, you'd hope. Yeah. So that but

909
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: I think is really important and often forgotten very quickly,

910
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: and you go to everyone else and what will everyone

911
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 1: else think? And don't you know, think too much about

912
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: the people who who got you there to begin with.

913
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: I think you can only do what you can do,

914
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: and I think I love working with our clubs, and

915
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: I love it because they know I've done it and

916
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: they know that I've worked in pretty tricky club environments.

917
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: You know, take programs that are successful, programs that are

918
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 1: unsuccessful on the field, I mean, and sort of have

919
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 1: the experience of what it's like to, you know, have

920
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 1: the grind of a footy program that's not winning. So

921
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 1: I don't day to day with all of the people

922
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: that I talk to, feel that and you know, we

923
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 1: navigate issues as a team, and we work together and

924
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 1: we challenge each other, and you can pretty quickly forget

925
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: what your gender is or your age. The only other

926
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 1: thing I'll say to it is I sit in a

927
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: lot of meetings where I'm the demographic that we're trying

928
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 1: that we're talking about. And so I sit in a

929
00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 1: lot of meetings around our comms and our messaging, and

930
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: you know, our fans and a lot of focuses on

931
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 1: young fans, and you know, we are appealing to everyone,

932
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: and in particular, are we appealing to the next generation,

933
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 1: the next generation that have children, the next generation that

934
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: don't that the kids themselves, And so don't forget that

935
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: being young and being in young relative terms and being

936
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: in positions of power is somewhat of a superpower.

937
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 2: I was going to say it, it's a superpower.

938
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: So, and I think having different perspectives gender, you know,

939
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 1: inclusive representation, age, you make better decisions. And I think

940
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,959
Speaker 1: businesses know that now, organizations know that. And our game

941
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: is the national game for the entire country. And the

942
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 1: entire country is made up of lots of different people

943
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: from lots of different places who identify all differently. So

944
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: I think it helps us as a team from an

945
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: AFL perspective, and I think for anyone second guessing themselves.

946
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: Just think about the stuff you're good at. That is

947
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: one thing I learned at the footy club. Think about

948
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: what your superpowers are, and think about what you're good

949
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: at and what you bring to the team, and don't

950
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: worry about the ten things that you can't do because

951
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:08,760
Speaker 1: other people can do those instead.

952
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 2: Oh that's such a good one. When you first were appointed,

953
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 2: were you met with any skepticism or were there any

954
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 2: reactions that surprised you or or even actually any kind

955
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 2: of at any stage along the way, was there anyone

956
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 2: who's like, this is a young woman in a very

957
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:28,240
Speaker 2: male dominated industry. Did you ever find that or feel

958
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 2: that or has it not sort of been your experience.

959
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: I'd certainly come up. But you know, I've done interviews

960
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 1: where people will say you're female and you're young, and

961
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, I literally wrote down your female and as

962
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: a young female, did you underlie it? It's in literally capitalist,

963
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 1: But I just take it as it's interesting to people.

964
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: It's interesting to people that you might be different to

965
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: what they expect, or you might be different to the

966
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 1: person before you, or you might be different to the

967
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 1: person after you, or whatever it is, but don't take

968
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 1: offense to it. I think great, there's lots of young

969
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: females now that look at it and think, wow, I

970
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,839
Speaker 1: could do that too, or in my chosen career, maybe

971
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 1: I don't have to wait ten years, or maybe I

972
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 1: can bring a different perspective to this job or this organization,

973
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 1: and maybe we can just think differently about the benefit

974
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: of having people who are different, which we certainly do

975
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: every single day at the AFL. So yeah, some resistant,

976
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: some people a little bit, you know, asking questions, but

977
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,239
Speaker 1: mostly it comes from a place of curiosity. Yeah, and

978
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: they don't. They just want to know how it all happened.

979
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: Then they very quickly want to talk about holding the

980
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,959
Speaker 1: ball and score review and all the fun stuff. Yeah.

981
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 2: I think it is because we do make assumptions because

982
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 2: it's there's been such rapid change, which is so positive.

983
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 2: But I think because we all remember a time when

984
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 2: you weren't allowed to play past twelve, that that same

985
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 2: woman in just one ten year block could now be

986
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 2: at the top. I think there's this presumption that you're

987
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 2: in this stuffy boardrooms with old man and that it's

988
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 2: amazing that it hasn't been that way and that there

989
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 2: has been such rapid change, which is yeah, really really exciting.

990
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 2: But if you aren't doing that in like stuff boardrooms,

991
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 2: what are you doing? What is the day to day?

992
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 2: I can imagine it's very high pressure being so senior.

993
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:19,320
Speaker 2: Do you get downtime? Like do you have really long hours?

994
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:21,320
Speaker 2: Are you in an office? Like what's the kind of

995
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 2: day to day of running the AFL.

996
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 1: We have a lot of fun, Like it helps when

997
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 1: you've got Joel Salwood and Aaron Phillips working in our

998
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: football department, So they had a footy, they'd probably be

999
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 1: kicking it to each other in the hallway. It is

1000
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: a lot of fun.

1001
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 2: Do you have playing meetings?

1002
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: Like do you suld't? We've got enough past players that

1003
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: could help us. We actually had a AFL nine's competition

1004
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 1: at work, and I think the football department had an

1005
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: unfair advantage because we have three hundred gamers and you know,

1006
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 1: best and fairest winners and all Australians and anyway, we

1007
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,839
Speaker 1: have a lot of fun. My week looks different every week.

1008
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 1: I try to spend as much time as I can

1009
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 1: out at the clubs. I try to meet with as

1010
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 1: many people as I can and from the clubs. We

1011
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: obviously have all of the usual executive meetings and all

1012
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: of the stuff that happens in the office, but we

1013
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,839
Speaker 1: also go to the footy a lot. That's worked too,

1014
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 1: even though it doesn't feel like it, but I think

1015
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 1: making sure throughout the whole week we're thinking about how

1016
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,280
Speaker 1: we can work with our clubs as best as possible,

1017
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 1: but also what do our fans want and how do

1018
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,359
Speaker 1: we make sure the game is exciting for them. So

1019
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 1: we spend a lot of time analyzing the game, the rules,

1020
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 1: making sure we umpire the game as best as possible,

1021
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 1: and I'm really thinking about everything. Yeah, and we run AFL.

1022
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: We run AFLW VFL VFLW, which is you know in

1023
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: the VFL and East Coast Stately competition. We run the

1024
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 1: Coats League, so our team will run onenty ten games

1025
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 1: this year. So it's a big operation, oh, with a

1026
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: lot of people. But yeah, it is a lot of

1027
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 1: fun and we do get downtime though we're really thoughtful

1028
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: about making sure people are well and trying to find

1029
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: times in the week. So a few of us at

1030
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 1: work just of learning how to play golf. So that's

1031
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 1: fun at the driving range on a Tuesday night, so nice.

1032
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 1: It's yeah, you just have to make the most. But

1033
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 1: my friends and family for fun go to the footy,

1034
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 1: So I go with them and sit in the crowd

1035
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: with them and enjoy it.

1036
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 2: It's one of those things about professionalizing your hobby is

1037
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 2: I think then the only downside is that you lose

1038
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 2: that kind of unincumbent ability to just watch a game

1039
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 2: and not be constantly analyzing everything about your job towards

1040
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 2: that game. So do you replace that? Like how do

1041
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:38,479
Speaker 2: you get your yay?

1042
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 1: Now?

1043
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: What football did for you when it was just your hobby.

1044
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 2: What are you doing outside of the game? Are you

1045
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 2: still data analyzing on dating apps? Or like what are

1046
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 2: you doing for my golf? Getting a handicapped out?

1047
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 1: Like what are you doing? Not even close to that?

1048
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: Four weeks?

1049
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 2: There is time.

1050
00:51:56,280 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 1: With graduation from our beginner's class last week. I still

1051
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,400
Speaker 1: love watching footy, and I sometimes I watch it at

1052
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 1: home just so I can feel like a fan. Yeah,

1053
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 1: because I obviously won't be jumping out of my seat

1054
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 1: or cheering unless the umpires do something really well in

1055
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 1: a game. So I still try to watch the game

1056
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 1: as a fan and enjoy it and forget. I was

1057
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: at dinner with my friends once and the footy was

1058
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: on in the background and there was a really good

1059
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: mark and they panned to the coach's box. The coaches

1060
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:30,319
Speaker 1: were smiling and my friends were saying, Oh, that's such

1061
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: a good such a good mark, and I looked and said, oh,

1062
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,359
Speaker 1: they don't have their accreditation on. And I thought, that's

1063
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,839
Speaker 1: what you're looking at, and that I've got to reset here.

1064
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 1: I have to. So when I'm there, I'm watching the

1065
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 1: way the game's being played. The umpire is what's happening.

1066
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 1: But I do try to find joy in it because

1067
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 1: I still love it. I still love going to the footy.

1068
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: I love watching the fans get out of their seat.

1069
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 1: And our job is to try and make it as

1070
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 1: good as possible for them and get it as right

1071
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 1: as possible, and we don't always do that, but we

1072
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: have to keep trying, ying and the passion that can

1073
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 1: very quickly sometimes turn into pressure and scrutinies because they

1074
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 1: love it, Yeah, they absolutely love it and it is

1075
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 1: their fun, pastime, hobby, connection with their family. And so

1076
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 1: if they've got something to say about the umpires. I mean,

1077
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:18,399
Speaker 1: so they should, yeah, because it's their game.

1078
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:21,879
Speaker 2: Thinking about the accreditation that that's fine.

1079
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:24,720
Speaker 1: My friend said, you've got to reflect on on life.

1080
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: Take a cold, hard look at yourself. Laura, No, just

1081
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 1: enjoy the mark. So okay, okay, So you just got

1082
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:31,240
Speaker 1: to catch.

1083
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 2: Yourself and what's your take then on work life balance,

1084
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 2: and particularly as a female. I think there's a whole

1085
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 2: different set of considerations around downtime and our cycles and

1086
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:50,799
Speaker 2: family and starting families and is the off season when

1087
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 2: you go traveling?

1088
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1089
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 2: Are you playing golf? Are you reading netflick? Do you

1090
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 2: binge TV?

1091
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 3: Like?

1092
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:57,240
Speaker 2: What's your switching off your brain?

1093
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 1: I think my approach, and I know everyone's different. I

1094
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: know people to be you know, successful or you know,

1095
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:07,280
Speaker 1: operate at a level that works for them. Everyone is different.

1096
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 1: I think for me what works is living and working

1097
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,479
Speaker 1: at the same time and trying not to find these

1098
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: big moments of switching off. And I say that because

1099
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: if you don't get that moment or something comes up,

1100
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: my job is unpredictable, Like I can't control what will happen.

1101
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 1: I can't control if the lights turn off in the

1102
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: middle of a game.

1103
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 2: And that did happen in the shower. No, I can't

1104
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 2: control that.

1105
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 1: So if you are looking for these big blocks of

1106
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 1: time that you you know, hours or days that you're off,

1107
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: it's not realistic. And then I think often you spend

1108
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 1: time being hard on yourself that you didn't get that block.

1109
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: And so for me, it's just trying to live and

1110
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 1: work at the same time. Do it all fit it in,

1111
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:52,879
Speaker 1: be available, be as calm and well as you can be,

1112
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 1: so when things do kick off, you're in a better

1113
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 1: place to deal with them. And then it's you know,

1114
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 1: our team we block out, you know, twelve to one

1115
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 1: every day, we have lunch at the same time, no

1116
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:06,800
Speaker 1: meetings ever. Wow, it's really good because you just reset yourself.

1117
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 1: You know that you've got time day to day and

1118
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:11,879
Speaker 1: it's cumulative and it just adds up if you don't

1119
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,839
Speaker 1: look after yourself. So, you know, Fridays we try to

1120
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 1: take it as easy as we can do stuff like this.

1121
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 1: Be so lucky because the weekend's big and busy, and

1122
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: we've got the practice matches this weekend, we've got Opening

1123
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:27,720
Speaker 1: Round next week, and we'll have football every single weekend

1124
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 1: until the second week of December. So wee weekends.

1125
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:32,959
Speaker 2: Of course we have.

1126
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:34,919
Speaker 1: To find you know, our work is when everybody else

1127
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 1: is having time off. So I just try to find

1128
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:39,919
Speaker 1: the moments, try to find time for the driving range. Now,

1129
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: apparently I'll follow your Yeah, I think I've overstated my

1130
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:50,799
Speaker 1: ability already. You need a golf and name too. I've

1131
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 1: invited myself to corporate golf days. I can't even hit No,

1132
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 1: you can't even hit off the t. So anyway, maybe.

1133
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 2: All post there's a passion project that's right.

1134
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,359
Speaker 1: So you just have to make it work. And there

1135
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 1: are all the pressures, particularly for women and for me.

1136
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 1: I'm acutely aware, particularly of women in our department who

1137
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 1: come back from parentally eve and what does that look

1138
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: like when we have variables in what we do and

1139
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: things kick off when we can't control them. But they

1140
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 1: have things, and so do the guys in our department too.

1141
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: We've got primary care as different days of the week

1142
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 1: and part time staff who look after their kids on

1143
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 1: other days. But you just have to be really mindful

1144
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: because there is no option. You have to pick kids

1145
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 1: up from school, drop them off, care for them, and

1146
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 1: so we try to make all of that work, you know,

1147
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 1: with the lights turning off at the same thing.

1148
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 2: You're managing a lot of things all at once, but

1149
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 2: you seem to be just an extraordinary human being. And

1150
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 2: if I was to ever not work for myself, I

1151
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:56,720
Speaker 2: feel like I would love to work for you. Thank

1152
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 2: you so much for your time and for everything you

1153
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:01,839
Speaker 2: were doing with the game. It is just I mean,

1154
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 2: it's so hard to explain to anyone oversees what AFL

1155
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 2: means to Australians. It really it's like been part of

1156
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 2: all of our lives. It's part of so many there

1157
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:11,839
Speaker 2: are so many formative moments and memories that we all

1158
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 2: have in the game, and increasingly women's involvement is just

1159
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:18,919
Speaker 2: so exciting where football is going for a bigger participating

1160
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 2: nation now and you've really spearheaded so much of that.

1161
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 2: So thank you, congratulations and thank you so much.

1162
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. Well.

1163
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 2: I think you can all see why I am utterly

1164
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 2: obsessed with Laura Kane. What an absolute powerhouse but still

1165
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 2: so relaxed and fun and articulate and impressive all at once.

1166
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 2: Like I said, we couldn't have picked a better guest

1167
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 2: for a conversation Around International Women's Day, we should, of

1168
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 2: course celebrate what it means to be a woman every day,

1169
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 2: but it's always so lovely to have a marked occasion

1170
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 2: to have conversations like these. As always, please do share

1171
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 2: the episode if you enjoyed it. It means so much

1172
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 2: to help spread the neighborhood as far and wide as possible.

1173
00:57:57,800 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 2: In the meantime, I hope you are having an amazing

1174
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 2: week and are seizing your ya

1175
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 3: Mhm.