WEBVTT - Get My Boss Out Of My Bed & The Last Relationship Taboo 0:00:08.193 --> 0:00:10.914 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:16.154 --> 0:00:18.994 Hello, and welcome to MoMA Mia out Loud. It's what 0:00:19.034 --> 0:00:22.913 women are actually talking about on Monday, the seventeenth of November. 0:00:22.954 --> 0:00:24.554 My name is Hollywayne Night. 0:00:24.914 --> 0:00:26.514 My name is Amelia Laster. 0:00:26.834 --> 0:00:30.114 My name is Claire Stein, not Jesse Steve. 0:00:30.794 --> 0:00:33.554 So Claire Stephens is filling in for Jesse a couple 0:00:33.594 --> 0:00:37.034 of times this week, and regular out louders will know 0:00:37.513 --> 0:00:39.273 that Claire has been on the show many times. She 0:00:39.394 --> 0:00:41.953 filled in for one Jesse Stevens on her Matt leave 0:00:42.153 --> 0:00:44.993 last time. What's been going on since the out Louder's 0:00:45.434 --> 0:00:48.074 hung out with you last Claire, just a few little things. 0:00:48.114 --> 0:00:49.594 I've been listening to a lot of out Loud. 0:00:49.634 --> 0:00:50.514 I'll have feedback. 0:00:50.593 --> 0:00:52.633 Yeah, I listened to every episode, so I feel like 0:00:52.674 --> 0:00:55.354 I've been in the studio with you guys. I'm overly 0:00:55.434 --> 0:00:58.834 familiar with Amelia, Like I'm like my friend Amelia, and 0:00:58.874 --> 0:01:04.754 Amelia is like hi, like twice as beautiful winged eyeliner 0:01:04.994 --> 0:01:05.674 thank you. 0:01:05.794 --> 0:01:08.274 Which is a top reminder everybody to go on watch 0:01:08.314 --> 0:01:10.554 just on YouTube. Yeah, if you want to see the 0:01:11.274 --> 0:01:13.673 amazing wings and see if you can tell the difference 0:01:13.674 --> 0:01:15.514 between Jesse and Claire, which of course you can if 0:01:15.514 --> 0:01:15.914 you know them. 0:01:15.914 --> 0:01:19.474 Well, yes, but I've just been freelancing, working for myself. 0:01:19.514 --> 0:01:23.274 Sometimes I pretend I'm a CEO of my own business, 0:01:23.354 --> 0:01:26.034 but my business is me and my staff are terrible 0:01:26.154 --> 0:01:27.674 and it's hard to keep them in line. 0:01:28.114 --> 0:01:30.194 I I got lots of people who are calling themselves 0:01:30.194 --> 0:01:31.274 founders and just doing that. 0:01:31.594 --> 0:01:35.634 It's like I'm the CEO of my personal Instagram account 0:01:36.034 --> 0:01:39.554 and my personal substat and yeah, it's probably time for 0:01:39.554 --> 0:01:40.754 performance reviews. 0:01:42.074 --> 0:01:44.554 Claire, do you do anything to get in the Jesse 0:01:44.794 --> 0:01:49.354 mode before you come on in Jesse's chair? Any Jesse 0:01:49.634 --> 0:01:51.874 related rituals so you go through. 0:01:52.074 --> 0:01:53.954 I did chat to her last night and I was like, 0:01:53.994 --> 0:01:56.154 what are you What are you thinking about at the moment? 0:01:56.194 --> 0:01:58.714 You've seen anything interesting over the weekend. I know what 0:01:58.714 --> 0:02:00.234 you're trying to do. You're trying to get me to 0:02:00.274 --> 0:02:02.474 pitch for your episode about Loud and I'm like that 0:02:02.714 --> 0:02:03.594 would be correct. 0:02:04.154 --> 0:02:06.594 Well, welcome, it's very good to have you here. 0:02:07.274 --> 0:02:07.634 Thank you. 0:02:08.474 --> 0:02:11.554 Here's what's made our agenda for today. I have a 0:02:11.594 --> 0:02:13.994 theory backed up by an article I'm going to tell 0:02:13.994 --> 0:02:15.834 you about later, that it's only a matter of time 0:02:15.954 --> 0:02:18.514 before at brunch or lunch or whatever, we're sitting across 0:02:18.514 --> 0:02:20.674 from a friend. They're going to be opening up about 0:02:20.714 --> 0:02:23.154 their new partner and how much they love them. And 0:02:23.194 --> 0:02:25.354 we're going to find out it's not a person at all. 0:02:25.954 --> 0:02:28.514 We're going to discuss ai companions. 0:02:28.754 --> 0:02:30.274 So we all have to learn to put on a 0:02:30.314 --> 0:02:34.194 face it is supporting the poker face like that's so great. 0:02:34.354 --> 0:02:36.634 Maybe we will. I mean, anyway, we're going to get 0:02:36.634 --> 0:02:36.954 into that. 0:02:37.594 --> 0:02:42.154 Plus is having and a fair a fiable offense, at 0:02:42.234 --> 0:02:44.714 least one CEO thinks so. And I'm going to puff 0:02:44.714 --> 0:02:45.394 a fish about it. 0:02:46.114 --> 0:02:50.114 And a whole lot of Epstein emails have been released, 0:02:50.394 --> 0:02:53.474 and I have questions specifically familiar Lester. 0:02:54.994 --> 0:02:57.794 But first, as if we could kick off today without 0:02:57.834 --> 0:03:01.114 talking about our favorite couple, Justin Trudeau and Katie Perry, 0:03:01.234 --> 0:03:05.594 or rather we're talking adjacent to them, right, So Justin Trudeau, 0:03:05.754 --> 0:03:09.154 who you all know, is this worthy former president, president, 0:03:09.194 --> 0:03:12.314 prime minister, a Prime minister of Canada. Meili's looking at 0:03:12.354 --> 0:03:15.954 me like God, this is going well. He was married 0:03:16.154 --> 0:03:20.274 to Sophie greg Wa for eighteen years and they broke 0:03:20.354 --> 0:03:22.633 up a little while ago, and as we know, he's 0:03:22.674 --> 0:03:25.874 now dating Katie Perry. She was on a podcast this 0:03:25.994 --> 0:03:30.554 week they marvelously named Arlene Is Alone The Single Life 0:03:31.034 --> 0:03:32.354 that struck me as such. 0:03:32.194 --> 0:03:35.354 A Canadian name. I don't know why, but Arlene. 0:03:36.754 --> 0:03:39.394 It's hosted by a woman called Arlene Dickinson. She's a 0:03:39.394 --> 0:03:43.674 Canadian businesswoman there and you know, personality and this show 0:03:43.714 --> 0:03:46.634 is all about post divorce life and so big booking. 0:03:46.794 --> 0:03:51.194 Great booking got Sophie Trudeau on and Arlene warmed up 0:03:51.234 --> 0:03:52.954 to it for twenty minutes and then she couldn't help 0:03:52.994 --> 0:03:57.714 it and she said, Hey, the room. Your ex husband 0:03:57.754 --> 0:04:00.514 appears to be dating a popstar and he's not being 0:04:00.594 --> 0:04:03.634 very private about it. How are you handling it's. 0:04:03.274 --> 0:04:04.634 Not a pop star and astronaut? 0:04:04.874 --> 0:04:10.674 Sorry, shit, today it's Monday for hear me. Your ex 0:04:10.754 --> 0:04:14.874 husband is dating astronaut Katie Perry. How are we failing 0:04:14.914 --> 0:04:17.474 about it? And this is what Sophie Trudeau said. 0:04:17.514 --> 0:04:19.354 Sophie, if you don't want to talk about it, that's cool. 0:04:19.394 --> 0:04:21.874 But I do think about you. I think about the 0:04:22.594 --> 0:04:27.553 public the publicity and the publicness of what Justin is 0:04:27.594 --> 0:04:29.753 doing for example right now, right like you know, like 0:04:29.873 --> 0:04:32.794 that's public and that's God. I don't know how you 0:04:32.834 --> 0:04:35.313 stay cool, Like, I just don't know how you stay cool, 0:04:35.354 --> 0:04:39.234 and I really admire it because I would probably not 0:04:39.354 --> 0:04:41.314 be that way, you know, you. 0:04:41.274 --> 0:04:47.193 Know, or human beings and stuff affects us normal. How 0:04:47.274 --> 0:04:52.873 you react to stuff is your decision. So I choose 0:04:53.034 --> 0:04:54.674 to try. 0:04:54.474 --> 0:04:56.234 To listen to the music instead of the noise. 0:04:57.234 --> 0:05:00.113 I'm very aware that a lot of public stuff out 0:05:00.154 --> 0:05:01.474 there can be triggers. 0:05:02.154 --> 0:05:02.793 We're humans. 0:05:03.993 --> 0:05:05.394 What I do with it is my. 0:05:05.513 --> 0:05:08.954 Decision, listening to the music and not the noise. I 0:05:08.993 --> 0:05:10.154 think she's a zen master. 0:05:10.274 --> 0:05:11.674 What do we think, Well, as long as it's not 0:05:11.753 --> 0:05:14.833 teenage dream, we're not listening to that music in the 0:05:14.953 --> 0:05:18.113 Greg wa Trudeau household right now. Look, I just think 0:05:18.193 --> 0:05:21.234 Sophie's a very zen person. That's true. She is a 0:05:21.234 --> 0:05:24.514 certified yoga instructor. And I don't know if you remember this, 0:05:24.834 --> 0:05:27.594 but a few years ago she was at an event 0:05:27.794 --> 0:05:32.633 in Canada in her capacity as First Lady of Canada. Well, 0:05:32.633 --> 0:05:34.834 what happened was she just decided that she was going 0:05:34.834 --> 0:05:36.833 to sing a song that she created. 0:05:36.633 --> 0:05:39.113 And it's called Smile Back at Me, and it goes 0:05:39.154 --> 0:05:48.433 like this, Some people did the angels can fly, and 0:05:48.513 --> 0:05:50.194 some people fight. 0:05:52.393 --> 0:05:53.313 Without knowing. 0:05:55.513 --> 0:06:00.553 Some people say she can't sing some people, but I 0:06:00.553 --> 0:06:02.873 guess he's got a type. He loves a SHANTUZI does 0:06:02.873 --> 0:06:03.474 old Justin. 0:06:05.553 --> 0:06:11.393 Later in that original clip, Sophie says, Arlin is alone. Ah, yes, yes, 0:06:11.714 --> 0:06:15.873 Arlene's podcast. Sophie, she's being her very zen self about 0:06:15.914 --> 0:06:18.314 how you react to your decision, and she says, you. 0:06:18.234 --> 0:06:20.393 Know, do I laugh? Do I cry? 0:06:20.513 --> 0:06:22.914 Do I have all these emotions? And I liked the 0:06:22.914 --> 0:06:26.033 word laugh because I was like, that is just we 0:06:26.113 --> 0:06:29.274 needed a sprinkle of pettiness, because this was too evolved 0:06:29.474 --> 0:06:32.274 for me, like, we come on, come on, your ex 0:06:32.354 --> 0:06:35.394 husband is dating Katy Perry. I need to know that 0:06:35.474 --> 0:06:39.433 there is some kind of lolls. And the laugh for 0:06:39.553 --> 0:06:41.874 me said, I do laugh about it. 0:06:42.234 --> 0:06:44.914 I just send Megan in the group chat because of 0:06:44.953 --> 0:06:47.953 her best friend relationship with Megan. I bet they're sending 0:06:47.993 --> 0:06:50.034 some memes about Katie that are not very nice. Yeah. 0:06:50.073 --> 0:06:53.993 This whole leans into my scoreless gossip side is Harry 0:06:54.034 --> 0:06:56.473 and Megan live really close to where Orlando and Katie 0:06:56.553 --> 0:06:58.594 used to live. Their neighbors needs to tip each other 0:06:58.633 --> 0:07:01.954 off about the paparazzi. So you are right, Megan and 0:07:01.993 --> 0:07:04.433 Sophie are like having a laugh about Katie, but then 0:07:04.674 --> 0:07:08.393 when she bumps into her a Walmart with the very 0:07:08.433 --> 0:07:12.314 fancy people shop not there, she also goes, Gosh, you're 0:07:12.354 --> 0:07:14.154 a much better singer than Sophie Trudeau. 0:07:17.194 --> 0:07:21.394 All I've seen this weekend are headlines about the newly 0:07:21.474 --> 0:07:25.913 released emails from the Epstein files and what they say 0:07:26.154 --> 0:07:30.874 about President Donald Trump. So I've just seen all this 0:07:30.994 --> 0:07:35.834 stuff about how the Democrats released a batch of emails 0:07:35.914 --> 0:07:39.114 and then the Republicans were like, no, that gave a 0:07:39.194 --> 0:07:42.194 biased idea of Trump. So we're gonna release twenty thousand 0:07:42.274 --> 0:07:46.194 pages of files, and I'm trying to weed through them 0:07:46.234 --> 0:07:50.154 and see if there's any smoking gun here. There's been 0:07:50.194 --> 0:07:54.713 memes about how Trump gave Bill Clinton a blow job. 0:07:55.274 --> 0:07:58.634 There's been damning headlines about Trump knowing about the girls, 0:07:59.234 --> 0:08:02.234 stuff about how Trump was like the worst person Epstein 0:08:02.314 --> 0:08:05.074 had ever known. I don't know if coming from a 0:08:05.154 --> 0:08:08.434 convicted sex offender, like that's a good thing or a 0:08:08.474 --> 0:08:11.874 bad thing. Yeah, and I've seen tiktoks about the appalling 0:08:11.874 --> 0:08:15.474 boomer grammar in the emails, which seems like a side note, Amelia, 0:08:15.554 --> 0:08:18.514 I need to know about the Bill Clinton blowjob. I'm 0:08:18.554 --> 0:08:22.874 so confused because I don't speak like Epstein nickname shortcut. 0:08:23.154 --> 0:08:25.354 This is weird. There's a lot of weird stuff in here. 0:08:25.874 --> 0:08:29.154 There isn't any smoking gun saying that Trump was complicit 0:08:29.154 --> 0:08:32.034 in Epstein's crimes, but there is a lot of weird 0:08:32.034 --> 0:08:35.034 stuff to talk about, and this Bill Clinton is one 0:08:35.034 --> 0:08:38.994 of the strangest. So there's an email that Jeffrey's brother 0:08:39.074 --> 0:08:42.794 Mark sent him in March twenty eighteen where it's very 0:08:42.874 --> 0:08:45.194 brotherly of him. Actually, he checks in on his health. 0:08:45.234 --> 0:08:47.514 He says, a while back you mentioned you're pre diabetic. 0:08:47.634 --> 0:08:50.834 Has anything changed with that? Which is quite nice brother 0:08:50.914 --> 0:08:53.554 to brother. But then the exchange continues in a bit 0:08:53.554 --> 0:08:56.114 of an odd way. Jeff reassures him that he's got 0:08:56.114 --> 0:08:59.674 his pre diabetes under control. But then Mark asks if 0:08:59.674 --> 0:09:04.074 Putin has the photos of Trump blowing Buba. So Baba 0:09:04.274 --> 0:09:07.074 is a nickname for Bill Clinton. Putin is the Russian 0:09:06.994 --> 0:09:09.874 president and not a very nice man. We don't really 0:09:09.954 --> 0:09:10.754 know what this means. 0:09:11.034 --> 0:09:14.514 Here's what I don't understand, Amelia. None of this is new, really, 0:09:14.594 --> 0:09:17.034 like the emails being dripped, aren't you. But we've just 0:09:17.074 --> 0:09:20.394 seen this whole scandal bringing down a member of the 0:09:20.474 --> 0:09:23.194 royal family. It's been bubbling away for years and years 0:09:23.274 --> 0:09:26.914 and years. The FBI have been were across Epstein for 0:09:27.114 --> 0:09:31.034 nearly two decades now. If you read extracts from Virginia 0:09:31.114 --> 0:09:34.914 Guphrase posthumous book, it's clear that anyone in that circle 0:09:35.074 --> 0:09:37.474 knew about the girls because they were all going to 0:09:37.554 --> 0:09:40.074 these parties in there, and she talks in there about 0:09:40.114 --> 0:09:42.994 famous academics and professors in this and that there's a 0:09:42.994 --> 0:09:46.194 lot of people involved in this scenario. Why is it 0:09:46.474 --> 0:09:52.074 so sort of tortuously slowly dropping out and will we 0:09:52.154 --> 0:09:54.794 find out? Won't we find out? People just going release 0:09:54.834 --> 0:09:57.114 the files every five and it's like, why is it 0:09:57.154 --> 0:09:58.074 all taking so long? 0:09:58.274 --> 0:10:00.754 It's a really good question, Holly, and I have a 0:10:00.794 --> 0:10:04.314 little bit of a hunch about this, which is here 0:10:04.394 --> 0:10:06.314 are the things that I know are true. Trump and 0:10:06.354 --> 0:10:10.794 Epstein were very close friends for fifteen years. Trump grossed 0:10:10.794 --> 0:10:13.794 Epstein out, Like there's a lot of references to how 0:10:13.834 --> 0:10:17.194 gross and deranged Trump is in Epstein's emails. 0:10:17.474 --> 0:10:20.874 Epstein himself, let's be very clear, very gross humor. 0:10:20.674 --> 0:10:24.634 Convicted sex offender. Yes, But here's the big butt. I'm 0:10:24.674 --> 0:10:29.674 not sure that Trump was complicit in Epstein's crimes because 0:10:29.674 --> 0:10:32.354 there's a lot of emails here, and like I say, 0:10:32.394 --> 0:10:36.274 there isn't a single email that tells us that Trump 0:10:36.594 --> 0:10:40.154 actually committed crimes alongside Epstein. I'll tell you what it says. 0:10:40.634 --> 0:10:43.034 Probably the worst email of the lot was back in 0:10:43.074 --> 0:10:45.794 twenty eleven. This was after Epstein had just completed an 0:10:45.834 --> 0:10:49.714 eighteen month sentence for soliciting prostitution from a minor. So 0:10:49.794 --> 0:10:52.434 he is now a convicted sex offender. And he is 0:10:52.474 --> 0:10:55.714 emailing with Julee Maxwell, his accomplice and his partner in crime, 0:10:56.274 --> 0:10:59.234 and he writes to her, the dog that hasn't barked 0:10:59.314 --> 0:11:03.394 is trump victim. There's a redacted name spent hours at 0:11:03.434 --> 0:11:06.554 my house with him. Maxwell responds, I have been thinking 0:11:06.634 --> 0:11:09.914 about that now. The victim is widely believed to be 0:11:10.114 --> 0:11:14.034 Virginia Giffray. You mentioned Virginia Giffray. Up until her death 0:11:14.194 --> 0:11:17.074 and including in depositions, maintained that she never saw Trump 0:11:17.114 --> 0:11:20.554 do anything wrong. She certainly had seen him around, they 0:11:20.554 --> 0:11:23.634 were certainly close, but she said that he had never 0:11:23.674 --> 0:11:26.314 done anything wrong and certainly not to her. So what 0:11:26.354 --> 0:11:29.234 this email tells us is Trump and Virginia Giffrey were 0:11:29.274 --> 0:11:32.154 in the same house for hours together. Yeah, that's true, 0:11:32.634 --> 0:11:34.953 but it doesn't say anything more than that. 0:11:35.274 --> 0:11:38.833 If there is nothing in there that's going to explicitly 0:11:38.914 --> 0:11:42.194 link the president to the files, why not just get 0:11:42.234 --> 0:11:42.674 him out there? 0:11:42.714 --> 0:11:43.554 Yeah, that's the question. 0:11:43.634 --> 0:11:45.714 I mean, I know that it implicates all kinds of 0:11:45.714 --> 0:11:49.953 people in all kinds of places. The conspiracy is being 0:11:50.034 --> 0:11:53.514 fed by all this secrecy, right and all the drip feeding, 0:11:53.954 --> 0:11:57.314 rather than I mean, I see constantly, you know, commentary 0:11:57.314 --> 0:11:59.834 in the American media or another thing that Trump's doing 0:11:59.914 --> 0:12:01.874 just to distract us, all just to distract us. We'll 0:12:01.954 --> 0:12:02.914 just get it out there. 0:12:03.714 --> 0:12:05.834 Is it too simple of me to say that I 0:12:05.874 --> 0:12:09.874 think Trump is embarrassed? Yeah? Right, rather than guilty, if 0:12:09.914 --> 0:12:12.074 that makes sense. I mean, look, Epstein, in one of 0:12:12.114 --> 0:12:15.074 the emails, says, I've met some very bad people, none 0:12:15.074 --> 0:12:17.794 as bad as Trump, not one decent cell in his body. 0:12:17.834 --> 0:12:20.074 In another email, he calls them a maniac, showing signs 0:12:20.074 --> 0:12:23.074 of eli dementia. None of this is flattering, but again, 0:12:23.314 --> 0:12:27.074 none of it makes him call criminal in Epstein's crimes. 0:12:26.634 --> 0:12:30.314 The fact that the first batch of emails were released 0:12:30.314 --> 0:12:34.234 by the Democrats, would that suggest that the most damning 0:12:34.274 --> 0:12:35.514 ones have been released? 0:12:35.714 --> 0:12:35.914 Yes? 0:12:36.274 --> 0:12:38.833 Okay, see that's interesting, But I. 0:12:38.794 --> 0:12:41.434 Do want to say that the Epstein files that we've 0:12:41.474 --> 0:12:43.794 heard about for a long time, which are separate from 0:12:43.794 --> 0:12:46.674 these emails, we don't know what's in those files. These 0:12:46.674 --> 0:12:49.754 are emails that came from his estate. In the files, 0:12:49.834 --> 0:12:52.474 is Billy to be a so called client list. Now 0:12:52.514 --> 0:12:55.674 Trump's name may be on that client list, but at 0:12:55.674 --> 0:12:58.554 this point, yeah, we've seen the most damning emails and 0:12:58.874 --> 0:13:00.274 there isn't a smoking gun. 0:13:00.554 --> 0:13:04.754 So when the House of Representatives vote on this, do 0:13:04.794 --> 0:13:06.794 we think that we're going to get access to all 0:13:06.794 --> 0:13:07.114 of them? 0:13:07.354 --> 0:13:07.554 Well? 0:13:07.594 --> 0:13:10.554 In fact, in terms of the Epstein files themselves, Trump 0:13:10.594 --> 0:13:13.714 today did a strange thing. He urged the House Republicans 0:13:13.754 --> 0:13:17.234 to actually release the files, asked the Justice Department to 0:13:17.274 --> 0:13:19.794 release the files, and he said that's because we have 0:13:19.914 --> 0:13:23.154 nothing to hide. So it's unclear with it that will 0:13:23.194 --> 0:13:26.274 actually come through. But from Trump's perspective, he seems to 0:13:26.314 --> 0:13:28.554 be now saying that he's fine with their release. 0:13:28.954 --> 0:13:32.274 If there was something really damning in there, do we 0:13:32.274 --> 0:13:34.474 think it would have stuck to Trump at all, or 0:13:34.514 --> 0:13:36.274 do we think we're beyond anything. 0:13:36.874 --> 0:13:39.034 It's a really good question because I don't know if 0:13:39.074 --> 0:13:41.394 you saw this, but last week, Megan Kelly, the very 0:13:41.474 --> 0:13:45.434 sort of strident Republican commentator, she is already moving the goalposts. 0:13:45.474 --> 0:13:48.674 On her show, she started talking about the fact that 0:13:48.714 --> 0:13:52.594 Epstein wasn't strictly a pedophile under the Dictionary definition of 0:13:52.594 --> 0:13:56.234 the word, because the girls that he sexually abused were 0:13:56.954 --> 0:13:59.114 teenagers as opposed to preteens. 0:13:59.194 --> 0:14:03.234 Yeah, she said, he likes that barely legal type like 0:14:03.674 --> 0:14:06.714 that just was so disgusting, But yeah, I agree. It 0:14:06.754 --> 0:14:11.034 feels like we're being manipulated. It's always been a bipartisan thing, right. 0:14:11.034 --> 0:14:14.954 It's not exactly flattering to Clinton, No, Bubba. 0:14:15.434 --> 0:14:19.874 No, or to many Democrats. In a moment, a CEO 0:14:20.394 --> 0:14:24.674 said that she fired someone for having an affair, and 0:14:24.874 --> 0:14:34.634 it made me puff a fish. I keep hearing about 0:14:34.634 --> 0:14:36.714 this Diary of a CEO podcast. 0:14:36.754 --> 0:14:39.394 Oh, I listen to that a lot. Oh I have 0:14:39.394 --> 0:14:40.794 a spare three hours. 0:14:41.234 --> 0:14:44.074 I will never be a CEO. I'm not particularly interested 0:14:44.074 --> 0:14:46.674 in them, but this weekend it bursts through into my 0:14:46.834 --> 0:14:49.714 world because someone said something insane on this podcast. 0:14:49.834 --> 0:14:50.594 They do do that. 0:14:50.794 --> 0:14:53.354 Her name is Natalie Dawson and she is the president 0:14:53.394 --> 0:14:57.034 of Cardon Ventures. You know, Cardone Ventures, a household name 0:14:57.114 --> 0:14:59.994 business management consulting firm. So in other words, I have 0:15:00.034 --> 0:15:01.794 no idea what they do, but she does fly in 0:15:01.834 --> 0:15:05.314 a private jet, so I should probably listen, she said 0:15:05.394 --> 0:15:07.794 on the podcast. Well, let's hear what she said. 0:15:08.034 --> 0:15:10.834 I was criticized because I fire a team member who 0:15:10.874 --> 0:15:13.954 was cheating on their spouse. People didn't like that. They 0:15:13.994 --> 0:15:15.714 thought that it shouldn't. 0:15:15.314 --> 0:15:17.234 Matter that that's their personal life. 0:15:17.234 --> 0:15:17.954 But here's the deal. 0:15:18.074 --> 0:15:20.234 If somebody is willing to cheat on their spouse, they're 0:15:20.274 --> 0:15:20.994 going to cheat on you. 0:15:21.034 --> 0:15:23.274 They're going to chew on you in your workplace. Yes, 0:15:23.514 --> 0:15:26.314 now we have the concept of cheating on your employer 0:15:26.354 --> 0:15:29.314 in the workplace, and I don't even know what that entails. 0:15:29.754 --> 0:15:32.434 Look the diary of a CEO host, Stephen Bartlett, who's 0:15:32.434 --> 0:15:35.714 normally pretty unflappable, I think, was quite astonished by this. 0:15:35.914 --> 0:15:37.794 Let's have a listen to what he said. Do all 0:15:37.874 --> 0:15:40.474 kinds of things in their personal life. It's terrifying because 0:15:40.514 --> 0:15:42.874 it out to be my business. Oh, it's absolutely my business. 0:15:43.114 --> 0:15:45.314 If somebody has a problem in their personal life, they're 0:15:45.514 --> 0:15:47.634 the same person that shows up to work. It's not 0:15:47.674 --> 0:15:48.074 any of. 0:15:48.034 --> 0:15:52.754 Your business, lady, Well, to me, what this seems like. 0:15:52.874 --> 0:15:55.394 Setting aside Cardo and Ventures, which I don't know a 0:15:55.474 --> 0:15:59.434 lot about. This is the logical extreme of that advice 0:15:59.474 --> 0:16:01.394 that we've been given for years, which is that we 0:16:01.474 --> 0:16:03.514 have to bring our whole self to work, because if 0:16:03.514 --> 0:16:05.354 you bring your whole self to work, then your employer 0:16:05.354 --> 0:16:06.914 can judge you and your whole self. 0:16:07.874 --> 0:16:11.274 Yes, I will say. She mentions in the clip that 0:16:11.314 --> 0:16:15.754 the cheating was kind of happening at work. So both 0:16:15.754 --> 0:16:18.834 of these people worked at her company, their partners didn't, 0:16:19.194 --> 0:16:21.554 and they were having an affair at work. 0:16:21.754 --> 0:16:25.114 It's never happened before in the time. No, people never 0:16:25.154 --> 0:16:26.594 have affairs with people they work with. 0:16:26.754 --> 0:16:30.754 Absolutely, So she was saying, did actually start to like 0:16:30.954 --> 0:16:32.434 either they were doing it at. 0:16:32.434 --> 0:16:34.354 Work or it was something photocopy? 0:16:35.114 --> 0:16:37.954 Yeah, I think it was one of those ten to 0:16:38.074 --> 0:16:40.434 her though, or she said it wouldn't matter. Yeah, she 0:16:40.474 --> 0:16:44.034 said it wouldn't matter if it was actually affecting the 0:16:44.074 --> 0:16:46.634 work at all, because her idea was if you are 0:16:46.674 --> 0:16:50.034 a cheater in relationships, then you're a cheater at work 0:16:50.074 --> 0:16:54.234 and you're dishonest and it matters to her. And I 0:16:54.274 --> 0:16:56.394 am so torn on this because on the one hand, 0:16:56.674 --> 0:16:59.594 I agree. I mean, she has a line where she says, 0:17:00.274 --> 0:17:03.434 I can't put this in two separate buckets. What someone 0:17:03.474 --> 0:17:06.434 is doing at home and think that what they're doing 0:17:06.474 --> 0:17:08.994 at home and the confusion in the distraction isn't going 0:17:09.033 --> 0:17:13.314 to bleed into the workplace. And my issue there is, 0:17:13.714 --> 0:17:16.513 what if someone's caring for a dying parent or a 0:17:16.554 --> 0:17:20.634 sick child, or if somebody just has something going on 0:17:20.714 --> 0:17:23.954 in their life, according to her, is going to affect 0:17:23.954 --> 0:17:24.394 their work. 0:17:24.794 --> 0:17:26.394 Why is she the judge of that. 0:17:26.554 --> 0:17:26.954 I don't know. 0:17:27.234 --> 0:17:29.674 What if the affair was making you super productive at 0:17:29.674 --> 0:17:32.273 work because you were so happy and deliriously happy in 0:17:32.274 --> 0:17:34.234 your private life. I don't think we have to restrict 0:17:34.274 --> 0:17:38.114 this to just virtue signaling examples like I just think 0:17:38.154 --> 0:17:41.154 that the problem is that you do have two buckets, right, Holly. 0:17:41.034 --> 0:17:42.874 You definitely have two buckets. You do not want to 0:17:42.914 --> 0:17:44.794 see my whole self. I don't want to bring my 0:17:44.834 --> 0:17:47.354 whole self to work. My whole self is a mess. 0:17:48.154 --> 0:17:50.834 My work, but it's the best, tidiest, neatest bit of me, 0:17:50.914 --> 0:17:53.714 and let's face it, that's not exactly that well put together. 0:17:54.354 --> 0:17:57.394 I think it was designed to make us pufferfish. So 0:17:57.674 --> 0:18:00.194 I think for a start, Diary of a CEO is 0:18:00.354 --> 0:18:03.313 the biggest podcast in the world, So everybody wants to 0:18:03.314 --> 0:18:06.154 get on it and if you're the boss of Cardone Industries, 0:18:07.234 --> 0:18:10.274 and I know, I'm sure she is very important and fabulous, 0:18:10.274 --> 0:18:13.114 but like you probably need a couple of good soundbites 0:18:13.234 --> 0:18:16.314 to get on there. It's also very kind of American 0:18:16.434 --> 0:18:20.234 versus British in a way this conversation, because Stephen Bartlett, 0:18:20.434 --> 0:18:23.834 who you know, has platformed all kinds of questionable things 0:18:23.874 --> 0:18:26.914 on that show. He's a bit like, I don't know 0:18:26.994 --> 0:18:30.634 what you mean. We couldn't possibly nose the into other 0:18:30.634 --> 0:18:34.434 people's business, and the Americans just like, are you kidding. 0:18:35.674 --> 0:18:37.794 I think it's tricky because you've got a point, Claire, 0:18:37.794 --> 0:18:39.874 that if two people at work are having an affair 0:18:39.914 --> 0:18:42.994 and it's affecting work, that's a different thing. And I 0:18:43.034 --> 0:18:45.714 mean when I was a manager sometimes you did have 0:18:45.754 --> 0:18:50.154 to have difficult conversations with people about their work being affected. 0:18:50.234 --> 0:18:52.793 And oh, it's just so cringy to even think about it. 0:18:52.794 --> 0:18:54.634 But you're kind of thinking in your head like is 0:18:54.674 --> 0:18:57.474 there something going on in your life? 0:18:57.794 --> 0:19:00.234 Yes, And it can affect culture. And I think a 0:19:00.314 --> 0:19:04.474 relationship can also depending on the positions those people have 0:19:04.554 --> 0:19:07.114 in a company. It can be a power imbalance, can 0:19:07.194 --> 0:19:10.234 be showing favoritism, there's all sorts of ways that can. 0:19:10.234 --> 0:19:11.994 So if that's the case, I mean, and I have 0:19:12.034 --> 0:19:13.634 a friend who was working at a company for a 0:19:13.674 --> 0:19:15.434 long time where two of the seniors were having an 0:19:15.474 --> 0:19:18.033 affair and it sort of poisoned the whole place, Like 0:19:18.194 --> 0:19:20.313 a whole lot of trouble came out of that. So, 0:19:20.474 --> 0:19:23.833 no question, some infidelity in the workplace not all I 0:19:23.874 --> 0:19:25.834 was going to say, not all infidelity in the workplace 0:19:25.874 --> 0:19:31.073 is good. But the idea that she found out something 0:19:31.114 --> 0:19:33.714 about somebody as a person that they were cheating on 0:19:33.714 --> 0:19:35.714 their spouse and you would get rid of them, which 0:19:35.754 --> 0:19:37.793 is kind of what she's saying when she says, if 0:19:37.834 --> 0:19:40.033 you're a cheat at home, you're a cheater at work, 0:19:40.634 --> 0:19:43.434 is just nonsense. Don't you even want a few people 0:19:43.474 --> 0:19:45.714 on your team who are good at having a poker face, 0:19:46.114 --> 0:19:48.994 who can light your face? I know, a killer and 0:19:49.034 --> 0:19:49.434 a deal. 0:19:50.754 --> 0:19:56.273 I thought we kind of agreed that your work performance 0:19:56.514 --> 0:19:58.834 is what you get judged on at work. I am 0:19:59.074 --> 0:20:00.914 very black and white about. 0:20:00.674 --> 0:20:02.474 That, Okay, but you don't want to be too black 0:20:02.474 --> 0:20:05.474 and white, because that was my instinctive response to and 0:20:05.514 --> 0:20:08.154 so I looked into what the experts say we should 0:20:08.194 --> 0:20:10.434 be thinking of our work as, if not our family. 0:20:10.674 --> 0:20:12.954