WEBVTT - Why Group Chats Feel So Exhausting (And What To Do About It) 0:00:05.359 --> 0:00:11.439 You're listening to i'mum with mea podcast. Hi, I'm a 0:00:11.439 --> 0:00:13.839 Shiny Dante and welcome to him. But are you happy? 0:00:14.479 --> 0:00:16.879 Do you ever feel a sense of dread when you're 0:00:16.879 --> 0:00:20.599 added to yet another group chat? What's meant to make 0:00:20.639 --> 0:00:26.599 communication easier can often feel exhausting. Between the constant notifications, 0:00:26.839 --> 0:00:31.959 endless message threads, and multiple conversations happening at once, group 0:00:32.039 --> 0:00:36.959 chats can quickly become overwhelming. It's hard to know what's important, 0:00:37.359 --> 0:00:39.919 what can wait, and whether you're being rude if you 0:00:39.959 --> 0:00:43.599 don't reply. And while they're designed to keep us connected, 0:00:44.079 --> 0:00:47.799 they can also create a surprising amount of mental fatigue. 0:00:48.599 --> 0:00:51.519 There's the pressure to always be available, to keep up, 0:00:51.599 --> 0:00:54.319 and to constantly make tiny decisions like do I reply? 0:00:54.919 --> 0:00:55.599 Can I mute? 0:00:55.599 --> 0:00:56.719 Without feeling guilty? 0:00:57.479 --> 0:01:00.479 In this episode, I speak with Nearly Rose batter Stuff, 0:01:00.799 --> 0:01:04.279 gen Z specialist and award winning founder of youth mental 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:08.039 health charity all Kind about why group chats can feel 0:01:08.079 --> 0:01:10.839 so draining and what we can actually do about it. 0:01:11.439 --> 0:01:13.719 We talk about what we lose when so much of 0:01:13.759 --> 0:01:16.839 our communication and lose from face to face conversations to 0:01:16.919 --> 0:01:20.559 digital ones, the pressure to always be on, and some 0:01:20.719 --> 0:01:24.279 practical ways to make our relationship with group chats feel 0:01:24.359 --> 0:01:30.479 a little less overwhelming. Here's our conversation. Really welcome to 0:01:30.639 --> 0:01:33.799 but are you happy? I am very excited to dive 0:01:33.839 --> 0:01:35.559 into this topic with you today. 0:01:35.439 --> 0:01:37.959 Me Tooshannie, I'm so happy to be here with you. 0:01:38.159 --> 0:01:40.599 And it's interesting, right because I feel like with group 0:01:40.719 --> 0:01:45.239 chats it is so niche, yet it is so relatable, 0:01:45.239 --> 0:01:47.319 and I think we need more airtime to talk about it. 0:01:47.359 --> 0:01:49.159 Hence why we're going to be talking about it today. 0:01:49.359 --> 0:01:53.719 Absolutely niche to our generation, but a very very real 0:01:53.799 --> 0:01:56.199 experience that I think we should unpack. 0:01:56.519 --> 0:02:00.879 Yeah, totally, And I'm actually really curious for you. What 0:02:00.959 --> 0:02:02.359 are you like in group chats? 0:02:02.759 --> 0:02:06.479 I'm a bit of a ghost, to be honest. I yeah, 0:02:06.519 --> 0:02:09.759 because I'm on my phone so much for work, I 0:02:09.879 --> 0:02:13.799 see notifications as all the same thing, unless it's like 0:02:13.879 --> 0:02:16.159 a phone call from my mum or my partner that's 0:02:16.239 --> 0:02:18.679 kind of the only outlier, or you know, my closest 0:02:18.679 --> 0:02:21.279 friends that kind of thing, or a one on one 0:02:21.319 --> 0:02:25.399 text from one of those above people. But if I'm 0:02:25.519 --> 0:02:27.919 in a group chat, you know, from three people all 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:30.319 the way to like ten people, which I don't really 0:02:30.319 --> 0:02:32.239 have that many groups of friends to be honest, but 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:37.999 I see them as part of my Slack notifications, my emails, Instagram, dms, 0:02:38.039 --> 0:02:41.119 which having kind of a business profile means that it's 0:02:41.159 --> 0:02:43.639 not really just for friendship. So I group them all 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:46.639 together in my brain, and to me, it is admin. 0:02:47.039 --> 0:02:49.679 Like at its core, it is admin except for those 0:02:49.759 --> 0:02:53.799 kind of one on ones and those phone calls. It's 0:02:53.959 --> 0:02:57.559 just it's I find it so difficult, and therefore I 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:00.039 become a bit of a ghoster, to be honest, what about. 0:02:59.759 --> 0:03:02.599 You, Yeah, I love the archetype of the ghost. I 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:06.119 think we've got one. I feel like I am the lurker, 0:03:06.759 --> 0:03:10.039 so like I'm really I am really shit with group chats, 0:03:10.079 --> 0:03:12.279 Like I get really overwhelmed. And that's why I'm like 0:03:12.359 --> 0:03:15.519 really excited to talk about it, because I feel like 0:03:15.559 --> 0:03:17.559 I'm the type of person. So you know, I might 0:03:17.559 --> 0:03:19.959 have a lot of group chats going on WhatsApp and 0:03:19.999 --> 0:03:23.119 then I will like hover over it when I see 0:03:23.119 --> 0:03:26.439 there's a notification, but I don't click in because I 0:03:26.439 --> 0:03:28.239 don't want people to see that I've seen it and 0:03:28.359 --> 0:03:32.199 haven't replied yet. Yeah, so I'm already overthinking everything. And 0:03:32.239 --> 0:03:34.719 then I go the other way where like I want 0:03:34.759 --> 0:03:38.119 to take a step back. So that's that's my archetype. 0:03:38.239 --> 0:03:39.559 I got the ghoster and the lurker. 0:03:39.959 --> 0:03:43.479 Oh it's so hard. I've also heard of people who, 0:03:43.999 --> 0:03:46.719 you know, get so overwhelmed by these things, and you know, 0:03:46.759 --> 0:03:49.639 maybe they have Like this particular anecdote I heard she 0:03:49.799 --> 0:03:53.639 had multiple kids, she has running a business, and she's 0:03:53.679 --> 0:03:56.439 trying to keep up with, you know, this group chat 0:03:56.599 --> 0:03:58.399 of all of her kind of like high school friends 0:03:58.479 --> 0:04:02.559 or whatever. And she also had ADHD, So it's like 0:04:02.679 --> 0:04:05.479 just a recipe for disaster. And I don't even think 0:04:05.519 --> 0:04:08.999 you need to have neurodiversity or kids to experience this 0:04:09.079 --> 0:04:11.399 sort of challenge with group chats. I think it is 0:04:11.559 --> 0:04:15.079 just at its baseline overwhelming, and some people are better 0:04:15.119 --> 0:04:18.919 at diving into that than others. But she kind of 0:04:18.959 --> 0:04:21.039 got to the point where she was missing kind of 0:04:21.119 --> 0:04:24.439 like core updates in the group that weren't just like sharing, 0:04:24.719 --> 0:04:27.479 you know, about pop culture or memes. It was like, oh, no, 0:04:27.639 --> 0:04:30.039 like my kid is in hospital because he broke his leg, 0:04:30.479 --> 0:04:32.719 and she's missing these things. And then she's feeling this 0:04:32.879 --> 0:04:36.079 like intense guilt for not keeping up in the lives 0:04:36.079 --> 0:04:38.319 of the people that she cares about because it's wrapped 0:04:38.399 --> 0:04:44.719 up in this constant like asynchronous pinging notification situation, and 0:04:44.799 --> 0:04:47.039 so her friends were like, Okay, you know what, Like 0:04:47.079 --> 0:04:49.279 we understand that, like you've got a lot on your 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:51.399 brain works a bit differently, So we're just going to 0:04:51.479 --> 0:04:54.839 create another channel called like key life updates for you 0:04:54.959 --> 0:04:58.079 in particular, so you don't miss anything, but you can 0:04:58.119 --> 0:04:59.959 also stay in the other one and you can dive 0:04:59.999 --> 0:05:02.279 in when it suits you. But like, we don't expect 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.439 you to like trawl through hundreds of messages, you know, 0:05:05.559 --> 0:05:08.119 if you're just looking for those key updates. 0:05:08.319 --> 0:05:11.719 I really love that. That sounds like a healthy group chat. 0:05:11.599 --> 0:05:14.639 I know, and it makes sense because yeah, not everyone's 0:05:14.639 --> 0:05:17.959 brains work the same way or have the same capacity 0:05:18.359 --> 0:05:22.879 to be constantly across, you know, many conversations in one y. 0:05:22.879 --> 0:05:23.679 It's so hard. 0:05:24.199 --> 0:05:26.599 It is really hard, and it gets me thinking a 0:05:26.599 --> 0:05:29.159 lot about like why do you think group chats have 0:05:29.239 --> 0:05:34.119 gone from this space of fun and connection to I guess, well, 0:05:34.159 --> 0:05:35.719 for some people pretty stressful. 0:05:35.959 --> 0:05:40.399 Well, I think it's this constant like social hype of vigilance. Right, 0:05:40.519 --> 0:05:45.319 like you were explaining before, this overthinking, you're constantly having 0:05:45.359 --> 0:05:47.999 to not just keep up with the constant influx and 0:05:48.039 --> 0:05:51.039 the quantity of messages, but you're constantly having to like 0:05:51.599 --> 0:05:56.919 tone read, you're analyzing the social situation, the energy. You're 0:05:56.959 --> 0:06:00.159 then self editing as well, and like by the time 0:06:00.159 --> 0:06:01.879 you've come up with what you deem to be an 0:06:01.879 --> 0:06:05.279 appropriate response with the appropriate emojis, or you're trying to 0:06:05.359 --> 0:06:09.679 drop like a really funny response, like my love language 0:06:09.719 --> 0:06:13.039 is definitely human, Like I'm at my best when like 0:06:13.199 --> 0:06:15.439 me and a couple of friends are just like firing off, 0:06:15.759 --> 0:06:18.479 you know, different reels that we found or memes like 0:06:19.159 --> 0:06:21.759 around the same kind of topic, and it's just like 0:06:22.119 --> 0:06:24.959 this pure kind of joy. But that might be like 0:06:25.039 --> 0:06:27.399 ten minutes out of my night as opposed to like 0:06:27.439 --> 0:06:32.239 this prolonged, evergreen conversation. But yeah, if you're constantly self 0:06:32.359 --> 0:06:36.559 editing and kind of only perfecting your message to what 0:06:36.639 --> 0:06:39.599 you deem to be appropriate, you're kind of like already 0:06:39.679 --> 0:06:43.759 missing maybe two topics, Like you're too late, you know 0:06:43.759 --> 0:06:45.679 what I mean. Like it's so it's so hard to 0:06:45.759 --> 0:06:48.719 keep up, and it's so hard to reserve all of 0:06:48.719 --> 0:06:52.079 that brain energy on top of your work. Maybe you're 0:06:52.119 --> 0:06:54.719 a parent, maybe you've got other things going on, a 0:06:54.799 --> 0:06:58.279 chronic illness, whatever, it is, like it just makes complete 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:00.959 sense to me as someone who you know, works in 0:07:00.999 --> 0:07:03.479 mental health and the conversations that you have all the 0:07:03.519 --> 0:07:05.719 time on this podcast, like it would make sense to you. 0:07:05.799 --> 0:07:09.319 And I just hope that people listening, particularly women who 0:07:09.359 --> 0:07:13.879 are constantly overburdened with the mental load of running. Maybe 0:07:13.879 --> 0:07:16.399 it's a household, maybe it's a business, maybe it's both, 0:07:16.479 --> 0:07:19.319 maybe it's something completely different. Taking care of your elderly 0:07:19.399 --> 0:07:22.599 parents were constantly overburdened, and we know that we're taking 0:07:22.639 --> 0:07:25.839 on like nine more hours per week of unpaid labor, 0:07:26.119 --> 0:07:28.839 Like it just makes complete sense. So I really want 0:07:28.879 --> 0:07:31.959 people to understand that it's not just a personal failure. 0:07:32.079 --> 0:07:35.839 It's like something that our brains were never ever designed 0:07:36.079 --> 0:07:37.039 to take on. 0:07:37.519 --> 0:07:38.759 Yeah, it's so true. 0:07:38.799 --> 0:07:41.519 I mean, like you think about it, it's like thousands 0:07:41.559 --> 0:07:43.319 and thousands of years ago, like they. 0:07:43.199 --> 0:07:45.559 Did not have this issue. No, you're so right. 0:07:45.639 --> 0:07:48.559 We haven't been like our brains haven't been programmed to 0:07:48.879 --> 0:07:51.279 be in the generation that we're in where we're so 0:07:51.479 --> 0:07:56.079 hyper connected with the technology and our bodies are breaking down, 0:07:56.359 --> 0:07:57.239 like it's a lot. 0:07:57.719 --> 0:07:59.959 Yeah, but I guess at the same time, if we 0:08:00.079 --> 0:08:03.639 do think about that our brains were designed to fear 0:08:03.719 --> 0:08:08.759 social rejection. So it's like, that's why we care. That's 0:08:08.799 --> 0:08:11.399 why we care about keeping up and making sure that 0:08:11.479 --> 0:08:15.599 no one is laughing at our response behind our backs, 0:08:15.799 --> 0:08:18.959 or no one replying to something that you thought was 0:08:18.999 --> 0:08:22.839 really funny. Like that plays on you more than you 0:08:22.879 --> 0:08:25.199 think because of the fact that our brains are designed 0:08:25.199 --> 0:08:27.479 to fear social rejection, because that used to mean being 0:08:27.959 --> 0:08:31.519 ostracized from the group and facing death, you know what 0:08:31.559 --> 0:08:33.639 I mean. So it kind of comes back to like 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:37.039 our lizard brains being like, oh wow, like I really 0:08:37.039 --> 0:08:39.959 do need to participate, not just because of FOMO, but 0:08:40.119 --> 0:08:43.159 because I have this innate fear of being rejected by 0:08:43.199 --> 0:08:43.919 the people. 0:08:43.599 --> 0:08:47.039 That I care about totally, totally, and sometimes it's even 0:08:47.039 --> 0:08:49.359 people that you don't even know, like you want. 0:08:49.279 --> 0:08:50.879 To still get a part of it. You're like, wait, 0:08:50.879 --> 0:08:52.039 what do I care so much? 0:08:52.079 --> 0:08:52.279 You know? 0:08:52.879 --> 0:08:54.239 Yeah, that's so funny. 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.959 So it's interesting too because there's this sense of feeling 0:08:58.079 --> 0:09:01.159 like we're always on in group chats, right, yeah. 0:09:01.039 --> 0:09:03.279 I hate it, oh my gosh, being always on just 0:09:03.319 --> 0:09:05.839 in general, even if you don't work in social media, 0:09:06.399 --> 0:09:07.999 you feel like you have to always be on. 0:09:08.079 --> 0:09:10.719 Always beyond it's a lot and exhausting, But what do 0:09:10.759 --> 0:09:14.039 you think that actually does to someone's stress levels over time. 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:18.879 I think it's like this chronic adrenaline fatigue of like, 0:09:19.399 --> 0:09:23.679 you know, one that fear of social rejection. That's kind 0:09:23.719 --> 0:09:27.519 of why we are always online, either that or fear 0:09:27.599 --> 0:09:31.039 of being fired because we're not across you know, current 0:09:31.079 --> 0:09:34.999 events or news or responding to emails when our employers 0:09:35.079 --> 0:09:38.639 expect us to. It's also part of our identity as well, 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:41.559 particularly for young people who are shaping themselves at the 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:46.519 same time as they're consuming. You know, Pinterest is absolutely 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.279 booming with young people, particularly after the social media ban, 0:09:49.399 --> 0:09:52.199 because it is that kind of like discovery and editing 0:09:52.359 --> 0:09:56.799 of self. You know, it's like this identity shaping through 0:09:57.319 --> 0:10:01.479 other people's content around their lives, and it's like the 0:10:01.479 --> 0:10:04.319 first time we've been able to look further than just 0:10:04.319 --> 0:10:07.639 a magazine or Hollywood and go, oh, hey, that's kind 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:09.999 of who I want to be, I think, Or maybe 0:10:10.039 --> 0:10:12.919 I could try that on, or that hobby looks really interesting, 0:10:13.359 --> 0:10:16.399 or I didn't even know that job existed. Like, it's 0:10:16.719 --> 0:10:19.799 part of this sense of self that is like one 0:10:19.839 --> 0:10:22.079 and the same. There is no offline and online to 0:10:22.159 --> 0:10:26.359 young people. It is this one kind of ambient sense 0:10:26.359 --> 0:10:30.399 of self. It exists all together and it's really really 0:10:30.399 --> 0:10:31.239 hard to separate. 0:10:31.479 --> 0:10:35.199 Yeah, it's so true. It's also connected now, yeah, too connected. 0:10:35.199 --> 0:10:37.239 What have we done? I don't know how do we 0:10:37.279 --> 0:10:37.999 go back from this? 0:10:38.239 --> 0:10:40.079 You know, it's interesting. 0:10:40.359 --> 0:10:43.319 I have this theory where I feel like we're going 0:10:43.399 --> 0:10:46.319 to go through this massive pendulum swing as a society 0:10:46.359 --> 0:10:48.879 where it's like, you know, the last I don't know, 0:10:49.159 --> 0:10:51.519 twenty thirty years, Like there's been this ramp up of 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:55.079 technology and social media and everything, and then now I'm 0:10:55.119 --> 0:10:58.119 noticing whether it's my algorithm or not. This is also 0:10:58.599 --> 0:11:02.719 variable is people are now getting devices like the brick phone, 0:11:02.999 --> 0:11:03.719 know all these. 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:05.119 Things, and that's coming up more so. 0:11:05.319 --> 0:11:09.159 Yeah, people are annoyed, like I now try to rebel 0:11:09.199 --> 0:11:11.279 against a system. Like I'm on the train and I'm 0:11:11.359 --> 0:11:13.679 trying not to look at my phone. I'm looking at them. 0:11:14.119 --> 0:11:18.119 A book, Ohno, I like this, Yeah, I feel really 0:11:18.639 --> 0:11:24.239 like superior. Yeah well yeah, or a paper book even better? 0:11:24.359 --> 0:11:26.159 Yeah, yeah, totally old school way. 0:11:26.199 --> 0:11:26.679 I love it. 0:11:27.119 --> 0:11:30.319 So why do you think group chats sometimes feel more 0:11:30.359 --> 0:11:33.759 intense or performative than that one on one connection. 0:11:34.279 --> 0:11:39.119 Well, I think it's because you are talking to multiple 0:11:39.159 --> 0:11:43.479 people at once, and you're self editing for multiple different 0:11:43.519 --> 0:11:47.319 personalities and lives, and some people just do better with 0:11:47.719 --> 0:11:52.559 one on one situations in general. Like I fear like 0:11:52.719 --> 0:11:56.199 group scenarios in person, especially when I don't know everyone, 0:11:56.359 --> 0:11:58.759 Like that is so hard for me. I'm a socially 0:11:58.799 --> 0:12:02.079 anxious person and I find that really difficult. But even so, 0:12:02.319 --> 0:12:04.599 at least when you're in person with these people, you 0:12:04.719 --> 0:12:07.399 get feedback in real time, you get body language, you 0:12:07.439 --> 0:12:10.959 get a sense of tone, you can move around the space. 0:12:11.479 --> 0:12:14.279 You're not like trapped. You don't feel this sense of 0:12:14.399 --> 0:12:18.039 like that you owe anyone anything. You can remove yourself like, 0:12:18.159 --> 0:12:22.559 it's just how humans have always connected with each other. 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.239 That's like, you know, dog downa stage, you will talk 0:12:25.279 --> 0:12:29.599 all about like oxytocin and the dopamine involved in that 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:33.879 human connection and being side by side with someone. Whereas 0:12:34.239 --> 0:12:37.639 when you are looking at like a group chat that 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:41.999 you're catching up on, it feels like you're socially catching 0:12:42.079 --> 0:12:44.599 up the same way that you might catch up on emails, 0:12:44.639 --> 0:12:47.359 Like the two are the same thing to your brain, 0:12:47.479 --> 0:12:49.479 you know what I mean. Like, essentially, you're just going 0:12:49.519 --> 0:12:53.839 through notifications and you're reading new information the same way 0:12:53.919 --> 0:12:56.199 as if you're on your Slack channel for work, like 0:12:56.279 --> 0:12:59.799 it just yeah, unless you have a particularly enjoyable like 0:12:59.919 --> 0:13:01.879 pop culture event that you're all like weighing in on, 0:13:01.959 --> 0:13:05.159 and it's like haha, it's light and enjoyable, like if 0:13:05.159 --> 0:13:08.919 someone's you know, disclosing something really difficult and personal, Like, 0:13:08.959 --> 0:13:12.039 that's a really hard thing to put into a digital 0:13:12.039 --> 0:13:14.719 group environment, you know what I mean, Like it's so flattened. 0:13:15.159 --> 0:13:18.359 There's no nuance. It's so hard to feel like you're 0:13:18.399 --> 0:13:21.919 saying the right thing. You don't get immediate validation in 0:13:21.999 --> 0:13:24.439 terms of that eye contact or body language. It's like 0:13:24.999 --> 0:13:27.519 for people who are socially anxious and you know, find 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:31.559 it hard enough to do it in person, Like how 0:13:31.599 --> 0:13:33.399 is it going to be any easier when we're just 0:13:33.479 --> 0:13:37.719 like typing data and putting it out into the ether, 0:13:37.919 --> 0:13:39.719 Like it just it doesn't make any sense to me. 0:13:39.839 --> 0:13:42.319 Yeah, it's interesting you talk about social anxiety because I 0:13:42.359 --> 0:13:45.479 definitely can get socially anxious going to events and if 0:13:45.479 --> 0:13:48.079 there's people I don't know, well, you know, it's a lot. 0:13:48.159 --> 0:13:50.719 And it gets me thinking about is there such a 0:13:50.759 --> 0:13:54.119 thing called digital social anxiety? And does that show up 0:13:54.119 --> 0:13:55.919 in groups, because it sounds like it does. 0:13:56.239 --> 0:13:57.279 I feel like I have it. 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:00.519 Yeah, I don't think it's any different from social anxiety. 0:14:00.599 --> 0:14:04.399 I think, like we touched on, the online sense of 0:14:04.799 --> 0:14:06.919 and the offline are one and the same. You know, 0:14:07.079 --> 0:14:10.519 like us, we have a public kind of profile on Instagram, 0:14:10.839 --> 0:14:14.719 we're still us, Like we're still representing our human selves, 0:14:15.079 --> 0:14:18.239 and so yes, it might be a further extension on 0:14:18.239 --> 0:14:20.079 one side of us, like it might be further up 0:14:20.119 --> 0:14:23.559 the spectrum in terms of like polish and credibility and 0:14:23.599 --> 0:14:26.799 things like that, but it's still at its core, you know, 0:14:26.919 --> 0:14:30.119 who we are. And that is exactly what it feels 0:14:30.119 --> 0:14:33.279 like for people on Instagram or Facebook or whatever socials 0:14:33.279 --> 0:14:35.799 they're on at the moment as young people, because they 0:14:35.919 --> 0:14:40.079 feel this kind of pressure to curate and edit and 0:14:40.159 --> 0:14:43.519 so it just, you know, it's not any different that 0:14:43.719 --> 0:14:47.159 anxiety that they're feeling for their online self is the 0:14:47.199 --> 0:14:50.239 exact same anxiety they're feeling for their offline self. 0:14:50.519 --> 0:14:52.879 It's hard, it's hard, it's hard, and I definitely feel 0:14:52.879 --> 0:14:55.079 that because when you especially when I've done like self 0:14:55.119 --> 0:14:58.199 development programs or courses, you naturally get added into a 0:14:58.239 --> 0:15:01.559 group chat. So you know, there's that feeling of oh, Okay, 0:15:01.639 --> 0:15:04.279 there's all of these people I don't know, so I 0:15:04.319 --> 0:15:07.519 know myself spending a bit more time thinking about my message. 0:15:07.679 --> 0:15:10.199 And then so like that's self editing piece, like are 0:15:10.279 --> 0:15:12.639 doing that And then so that's one process, and then 0:15:12.679 --> 0:15:14.999 you put it into the group and then you're kind 0:15:14.999 --> 0:15:17.879 of waiting to be like will anyone reply or will 0:15:17.879 --> 0:15:20.719 anyone like it? And then you're comparing how many likes 0:15:20.719 --> 0:15:21.879 did I get to other people? 0:15:21.919 --> 0:15:25.599 And then you're just in this whole other voice leave terrible. 0:15:25.679 --> 0:15:30.039 Yeah, everyone gets a notification exactly like basically, you non 0:15:30.159 --> 0:15:34.399 consensually signed this social contract by being like plopped into 0:15:34.439 --> 0:15:37.359 that group that you would participate, that you would validate 0:15:37.439 --> 0:15:41.279 other people's experiences and opinions, that you would be active 0:15:41.319 --> 0:15:44.199 and present, because you know, if people feel like you're 0:15:44.199 --> 0:15:47.319 not present, that maybe you don't value them as much 0:15:47.359 --> 0:15:50.919 as other things in your life. Like it's like this, Yeah, 0:15:50.959 --> 0:15:54.359 it's like this social contract that we all unwillingly sign 0:15:54.479 --> 0:15:57.799 when we enter these spaces, and what that actually means 0:15:58.359 --> 0:16:02.639 for the emotional and mental labor in real life can 0:16:02.679 --> 0:16:05.999 be like astronomical when you tie it by thirty group 0:16:06.079 --> 0:16:08.199 chats like there is no way. I think I have 0:16:08.239 --> 0:16:10.359 maybe like three four group chats, and a couple of 0:16:10.359 --> 0:16:12.959 those are family, and like I love receiving photos of 0:16:12.999 --> 0:16:14.879 my parents' dogs and things like that. So it's like 0:16:14.919 --> 0:16:18.719 it doesn't feel like work, but man, like it is 0:16:18.759 --> 0:16:22.799 so exhausting and I often sounds really bad, but I 0:16:22.839 --> 0:16:26.359 often like let my notifications, like even texts with like 0:16:26.599 --> 0:16:29.639 you know, three people in a group chat or on Instagram, 0:16:29.639 --> 0:16:31.239 Like I have a few group chats and things like that, 0:16:31.279 --> 0:16:33.759 I'll let them pile up till like the end of 0:16:33.799 --> 0:16:35.959 the week, and then I will literally put on my 0:16:35.999 --> 0:16:38.479 to do list like clear out notification. 0:16:38.679 --> 0:16:39.199 Organized. 0:16:39.479 --> 0:16:42.799 Well, it's it's organized, but it, like we kind of 0:16:42.799 --> 0:16:45.319 said before, it kind of lumps everyone into the same 0:16:45.479 --> 0:16:48.079 sense of admin and it's like, okay, cool, now I'll 0:16:48.119 --> 0:16:50.439 sit down with a cup of tea and I often 0:16:50.479 --> 0:16:52.239 do it like on my desktop as if I'm like 0:16:52.279 --> 0:16:54.959 responding to an email because it's faster, like how did 0:16:54.959 --> 0:16:55.479 we get here? 0:16:55.639 --> 0:16:56.199 You know what I mean? 0:16:56.239 --> 0:17:00.239 It's like insane. Yeah, yeah, it's really it does feel 0:17:00.239 --> 0:17:02.479 like admin. It does feel like a burden. Sometimes it 0:17:02.519 --> 0:17:05.319 does feel like extra load and extra work on top 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:07.919 of what you've already got going on in your life, 0:17:07.999 --> 0:17:09.799 So I think like we have to really look at 0:17:09.799 --> 0:17:11.999 ways that we can be like, you know what, like 0:17:12.079 --> 0:17:15.159 this woman who spoke to her friends and said, you 0:17:15.199 --> 0:17:17.439 know what, like this is really hard for me, Like 0:17:17.479 --> 0:17:20.239 my brain finds this really difficult. Can we just do 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.639 like an updates only kind of situation where I can 0:17:23.679 --> 0:17:25.919 opt into that and just get like the key headlines 0:17:25.959 --> 0:17:29.639 instead of having to search for nuance in masses and 0:17:29.679 --> 0:17:32.519 masses of data and not feel like I'm letting you down. 0:17:32.839 --> 0:17:36.879 Like people want that sense of like feeling less overwhelmed 0:17:36.879 --> 0:17:39.079 in terms of the quantity and volume that you have 0:17:39.159 --> 0:17:41.759 to look through, but they also want that feeling of 0:17:41.839 --> 0:17:44.519 like I don't want to let you down. I want 0:17:44.559 --> 0:17:46.479 you to know that I care about you, I value 0:17:46.799 --> 0:17:50.559 what you have to say, but like I'm struggling right now. 0:17:50.639 --> 0:17:52.159 Yeah, yeah, definitely. 0:17:52.239 --> 0:17:54.999 It was interesting you mentioned even you talked about burden 0:17:55.599 --> 0:17:57.959 and it gets me thinking, like do you think people 0:17:58.079 --> 0:18:01.639 are more driven by fomo or not wanting to come 0:18:01.639 --> 0:18:04.959 across as rude when they feel this pressure to reply. 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:07.879 I think it depends on what level of empathy they have, 0:18:08.079 --> 0:18:12.519 right Also, like if there are people pleaser, I've experienced 0:18:12.559 --> 0:18:15.879 both myself like I've like, oh, like I wonder what's happening, 0:18:16.079 --> 0:18:20.679 like you know, and also did my comment that I 0:18:20.679 --> 0:18:24.839 thought was really funny did it get a lot of reaction? Yeah? 0:18:25.199 --> 0:18:27.519 Did I make everyone happy? Did I make everyone laugh? 0:18:27.839 --> 0:18:31.319 And yeah, if there's commentary on something that I'm interested 0:18:32.479 --> 0:18:34.519 I think At the same time, though, we have to 0:18:34.599 --> 0:18:37.839 kind of look at like what's the cost of that 0:18:37.999 --> 0:18:41.039 fomo and not wanting people to feel like you don't 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:46.839 value their messages because is that worth more than you 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.359 intentionally spending a bunch of time like on your device? 0:18:50.999 --> 0:18:54.079 Are you sacrificing time with your family? Like are you 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:57.639 sacrificing time working? Because I think the like the flip 0:18:57.679 --> 0:19:00.679 side of this conversation is what it looks like for 0:19:00.759 --> 0:19:03.639 someone in the life of say a Shani, who is 0:19:03.679 --> 0:19:07.559 constantly on her phone responding to all of these different 0:19:07.559 --> 0:19:10.199 group chats because you feel a sense of fomo, because 0:19:10.199 --> 0:19:12.439 you feel a sense of duty to respond to your 0:19:12.479 --> 0:19:14.559 closest people and the people that you care about, and 0:19:14.559 --> 0:19:17.759 then these random people in the group project or whoever. 0:19:17.799 --> 0:19:20.639 It is, like it doesn't really matter, you know, like 0:19:20.719 --> 0:19:22.999 what's drawing us to that? It's like what is it 0:19:23.079 --> 0:19:27.599 drawing us away from because I am pretty good about 0:19:27.719 --> 0:19:30.719 putting my phone down when I want to. Mostly it's 0:19:30.719 --> 0:19:33.239 like me just like throwing my phone in another room 0:19:33.239 --> 0:19:34.559 and closing the door at the end of the day 0:19:34.559 --> 0:19:38.119 because I'm so over stimulated and I'm so over like 0:19:38.399 --> 0:19:40.759 my hand hurts, because it's like part of my job. 0:19:41.439 --> 0:19:44.039 I'm just always on it, right, and I find it 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:48.479 a little easier in my personal life to close it 0:19:48.599 --> 0:19:50.959 or like seven pm, put on charge and that's me 0:19:51.039 --> 0:19:53.479 done for the day. But my partner, on the other hand, 0:19:53.639 --> 0:19:56.079 like he doesn't use his phone for work at all. 0:19:56.199 --> 0:19:59.799 He's a health practitioner, so he doesn't go on social media, 0:19:59.839 --> 0:20:01.879 like he doesn't need that at all, And so when 0:20:01.959 --> 0:20:04.559 he gets home from work, he's catching up on all 0:20:04.639 --> 0:20:09.919 of the like AFL conversations and like fantasy football or whatever. 0:20:09.959 --> 0:20:12.959 He'll probably hate me for outing him, but like my 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:15.839 lord does he spend a lot of time in those 0:20:15.839 --> 0:20:19.559 group chats that are really kicking off, particularly around footy games, 0:20:19.839 --> 0:20:21.919 which happened like I don't know, three times a week 0:20:21.919 --> 0:20:22.879 at the moment or whatever. 0:20:22.919 --> 0:20:24.479 It is such a different world for me. I'm like, 0:20:24.479 --> 0:20:25.199 what is that world? 0:20:25.399 --> 0:20:27.999 Like, oh my god, that's all. I love it. Like 0:20:28.079 --> 0:20:30.599 he's great, Like we talk about you know, like can 0:20:30.679 --> 0:20:32.359 you just put your phone down and like we'll have dinner. 0:20:32.439 --> 0:20:34.799 It's not like he's constantly engaged in it, but you 0:20:34.919 --> 0:20:37.599 do notice him picking it up a lot more around 0:20:37.719 --> 0:20:39.919