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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast. Mumma Mea acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded on Hi. I'm Claire Murphy. This is Muma

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Speaker 1: MIA's daily news podcast, The Quickie. It's Women's Health Week,

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Speaker 1: seven days dedicated to the health and wellbeing of women,

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Speaker 1: girls and gender diverse people across Australia. The theme this

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Speaker 1: year is Your Voice, Your Choice, which for many women

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Speaker 1: across the country has been a difficult one to manage,

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Speaker 1: with doctors not always hearing them when they say they're

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Speaker 1: in pain and also not giving them the options many

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Speaker 1: men might access when they do. Today we speak with

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Speaker 1: Victorian Premier just Into Allen, who's heard from women who've

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Speaker 1: experienced pain as they collected stories for the Women's Pain

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Speaker 1: Inquiry to find out what their stories can teach us

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Speaker 1: and what governments plan on doing about it. But before

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Speaker 1: we get into that, here's the latest from the Quikie newsroom. Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: September three. The lawyer representing Brittane Hicks that the defamation

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Speaker 1: trial brought against her by Senator Linda Reynolds has told

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Speaker 1: the court that Reynolds tried to help Bruce Lehmon during

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Speaker 1: his criminal trial as he faced allegations he raped Miss

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Speaker 1: Higgins in Parliament House. Miss higgins lawyer told the Perth Court,

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Speaker 1: where Senator Reynolds is suing Miss Higgins and her partner

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Speaker 1: David Charraz over social media posts that she claims damaged

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Speaker 1: her reputation, that the Senator communicated with mister Lehman's defense

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Speaker 1: team before and during the now aborted criminal trial, saying

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Speaker 1: those twenty one messages showed the Senator's favor of the accused,

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Speaker 1: giving Lehman's lawyer's suggestions for potential witnesses and phone numbers

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Speaker 1: to contact them, and suggesting she might have other information

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Speaker 1: that may help his case. Mister Lehmann denies raping Miss

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Speaker 1: Higgins in Parliament House. In twenty nineteen, the criminal trial

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Speaker 1: was abandoned due to dura misconduct and Miss Higgins's mental

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Speaker 1: health meant another trial wasn't an option. The defamation trial

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Speaker 1: continues with closing submissions today. Extreme weather across three states

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Speaker 1: will require major clean up efforts, as New South Wales

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Speaker 1: police prepared there a report for the coroner over the

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Speaker 1: death of a woman in a holiday park on the

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Speaker 1: River Murray. The woman in her sixties was staying in

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Speaker 1: a cabin in Murule, near the Victorian border, when the

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Speaker 1: accommodation was struck by a tree brought down by the

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Speaker 1: dangerous winds. A man who's also in his sixties was

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Speaker 1: taken to hospital in a stable condition. The storms left

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Speaker 1: more than one hundred and twenty thousand Victorians without power

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Speaker 1: and six hundred and sixty homes damaged yesterday, while bushfires

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Speaker 1: fanned by the strong winds impacted areas of New South Wales,

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Speaker 1: Tasmanians are also still facing floodwater damage, with some low

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Speaker 1: lying areas still impacted. The Bureau of Meteorology says the

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Speaker 1: worst of the storms have now passed, but the damage

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Speaker 1: caused by winds and water may still cause some issues

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Speaker 1: across the regions. Protests have broken out in Israel after

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Speaker 1: the bodies of six more hostages were found in Gaza.

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Speaker 1: Over the weekend. Tens of thousands of Israelis took to

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Speaker 1: the streets in one of the biggest demonstrations in the

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Speaker 1: eleven months of the war in Gaza, chanting now as

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Speaker 1: they call for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to reach a

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Speaker 1: ceasefire deal and bring the remaining captives home sees fine.

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Speaker 1: Negotiations have been continuing for months with little progress, many

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Speaker 1: blaming Net and Yahoo for the failure to agree to

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Speaker 1: terms with Hamas. The IDEF identified the six hostages as

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Speaker 1: those taken from a music festival by Hamas on October seven,

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Speaker 1: All except one aged in their twenties. A man and

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Speaker 1: his kids have confronted Oasis legend Noel Gallagher in a

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Speaker 1: shop in London to ask why he's fighting with his

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Speaker 1: brother Liam. In the video, the man can be heard

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Speaker 1: explaining to his kids that this is the man in

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Speaker 1: daddy's favorite band, while the kids ask if he's the

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Speaker 1: one who's fighting with his brother. The man's young son

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Speaker 1: then approaches Gallagher and asks him why he fell out

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Speaker 1: with him, the kids holding a Winnie the Pooh, Gallagher

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Speaker 1: telling the child it was because Liam stole his Teddy

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Speaker 1: Bear back in nineteen seventy eight. The boy catches on

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Speaker 1: to the lie, calling him fake, before walking off the

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Speaker 1: man in Gallagher sharing a laugh over it. The brothers

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Speaker 1: have put their Teddy Bear related feud aside from a

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Speaker 1: massive reunion to her next year. The ticketmaster website crashing

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Speaker 1: up fans clambered to grab a more than four hundred

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Speaker 1: euro ticket to one of the shows in England and

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Speaker 1: Ireland in twenty twenty five, The Pulse on Paris. A

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Speaker 1: swag of medals on day five for the Aussies in Paris,

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Speaker 1: Lauren Parker taking gold in the paratriathlon women's PTWC Alexi Leary, Jesseongles,

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Speaker 1: Timothy Hodge and Emily Beecroft also won gold in the

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Speaker 1: mixed four by one hundred meter medley relay. In the pool,

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Speaker 1: it was silver for Jake Michelle and the men's one

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Speaker 1: hundred meter breaststroke S fourteen in Bochier Jamison Lisa and

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Speaker 1: one silver in the women's individual BC three. Michael Burien

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Speaker 1: scored bronze in the men's javelin throw F sixty four

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Speaker 1: and the Aussie Steelers won their bronze medal match against

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Speaker 1: Great Britain in wheelchair rugby. That's the latest news headlines. Next,

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Speaker 1: women's pain is often not taken seriously. We speak to

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Speaker 1: the premiere of Victoria to find out exactly how they

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Speaker 1: hope to change that. Okay, prepare yourself, We're about to

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Speaker 1: go inside my body. I had a baby nearly ten

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Speaker 1: years ago, and in the months after I experienced quite

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Speaker 1: severe hip and pelvic pain. I saw several doctors in

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Speaker 1: this time, and without any of them ordering a single test,

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Speaker 1: I was told my pain was simply a result of childbirth,

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Speaker 1: that it would pass, that the pain would lessen if

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Speaker 1: I just lost some weight. Fast forward four years and

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Speaker 1: the pain was still there. I wasn't able to sit

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Speaker 1: for any length of time, and exercise was proving increasingly

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Speaker 1: difficult with one of my hips constantly seizing up. When

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Speaker 1: I moved to Sydney, I saw a different GP who

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Speaker 1: finally set me for an X ray, the first test

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Speaker 1: that any doctor had done in the four years since

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Speaker 1: I gave birth, to find out that not only is

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Speaker 1: my coxic bone fractured, but it's also dislocated. Now, the

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Speaker 1: coxic bone is like a bit of a hub where

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Speaker 1: a lot of nerves come together in the lower spine,

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Speaker 1: so this break and dislocation were sending pain radiating out

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Speaker 1: through my hips and pelvis. Can it be fixed four

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Speaker 1: years later?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: But could it have been fixed back when the pain

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Speaker 1: first started? I guess we'll never know. My story is

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Speaker 1: one millions of Australian women's share whose pain is either

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Speaker 1: not taken seriously, is considered just part of a woman's

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Speaker 1: lot tied into either menstrual cycles or childbirth, who were

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Speaker 1: gaslied into thinking the pain is somehow connected to her

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Speaker 1: mental health.

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Speaker 3: So I'd been experiencing discomfort while sitting in a chair

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Speaker 3: at work for about a month, and eventually that started

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Speaker 3: to progress two breathing issues as well. So I went

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Speaker 3: to my family doctor about it, who had been seeing

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Speaker 3: for the last like ten years, and he said it

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Speaker 3: was likely due to stress and that I should consider

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Speaker 3: seeing a therapist. About two weeks later, I rolled over

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Speaker 3: in bed and I couldn't move, and I ended up

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Speaker 3: in the emergency room that night, and they discovered that

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Speaker 3: I had three fractured ribs.

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Speaker 2: I just found out that I've had two fractured ribs

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Speaker 2: after twelve weeks of pretty intense pain. I was told

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Speaker 2: not to worry about it because they were probably just

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Speaker 2: bruised by several physios. After ten weeks, I decided to

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Speaker 2: see a sports medicine doctor, who told me the same thing,

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Speaker 2: but sent me for a CT just in case. At

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Speaker 2: this point, I was literally so scared that nothing was

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Speaker 2: actually wrong with me and that I was wasting about

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Speaker 2: a grand to get CT appointments and other things. It

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Speaker 2: turns out that I was actually really lucky. The fracture

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Speaker 2: was on top of my spleen, so it could have

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Speaker 2: ruptured it, and there was a high chance of like

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Speaker 2: a lung collapse. I'm so cranky that no one took

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Speaker 2: me seriously. My bones are fused back together now, but

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Speaker 2: we don't really have a way of correcting them if

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Speaker 2: they've been fused wrong, so it's kind of just a

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Speaker 2: game of weight and see now.

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Speaker 1: Research shows that women are more likely to experience chronic

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Speaker 1: pain than men, with around forty percent of Australian women

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Speaker 1: living with ongoing pain issues. Despite these higher numbers, women

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Speaker 1: will often face longer wait times for diagnosis and treatment.

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Speaker 1: One report feeling dismissed or not believed when describing their

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Speaker 1: pain to health care providers. Experts have also found a

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Speaker 1: long history of medical gender bias, where women's pain has

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Speaker 1: been viewed as hysterical or psychological rather than physical. Women

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Speaker 1: more likely to be prescribed antidepressants for pain while men

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Speaker 1: receive actual pain medication. It was these findings that led

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Speaker 1: to the Victorian government launching an inquiry into women's pain

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Speaker 1: to address these issues and improve care for women across

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Speaker 1: the state. The responses to that inquiry have shown just

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Speaker 1: how desperate some women have felt in not being taken seriously.

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Speaker 2: For many years. Doctors and people were telling me, it's

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Speaker 2: all in my head.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of stigma around seeking pain relief.

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Speaker 2: Were treated as if we're drug addicts. Look, everything comes

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Speaker 2: down to cost.

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Speaker 3: Even if I could get help, I'd still need to

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Speaker 3: pay for it, and I can't work because of my pain,

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Speaker 3: so I have no money. It's just like this vicious cycle.

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Speaker 1: Victorian Premieres into Alan sat down to listen to some

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Speaker 1: of the stories that the more than thirteen thousand women

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Speaker 1: and across their state brought forward to that inquiry. Premire,

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Speaker 1: what stood out for you the most about the stories

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Speaker 1: these women shared with you.

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Speaker 4: Oh, Claire, we had such an incredible and strong response

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Speaker 4: for women, and their first response was just they were

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Speaker 4: so grateful. They thought it was so important that they

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Speaker 4: had the opportunity to be heard. And that was really

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Speaker 4: in the first instance, what came through so strongly, both

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Speaker 4: from the responses the submissions that we had to the inquiry,

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Speaker 4: but we also held a number of face to face

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Speaker 4: conversations and I attended a number of those conversations around

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Speaker 4: the state and what sat behind that with some pretty deep, personal, difficult,

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Speaker 4: and at times painful experiences that were shared in a

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Speaker 4: really open way. And at times it was so beautifully

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Speaker 4: generous from the women in those forums with the way

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Speaker 4: they shared these really quite personal details. But they shared

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Speaker 4: them because they wanted to make it difference. They saw

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Speaker 4: this as an opportunity to have both the health system,

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Speaker 4: government policy makers, but also importantly other women learn from

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Speaker 4: their experience with the deep, deep hope that they not

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Speaker 4: have to go through what those women experienced.

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Speaker 1: Now, I know that you, as a politician, are doing

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Speaker 1: this for a very real reason, that there is going

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Speaker 1: to be end results after this, But how did you,

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Speaker 1: as just a human being and as a woman feel

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Speaker 1: after sitting down not the politicians aren't human beings, after

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Speaker 1: sitting down and listening to these stories, Because you yourself have

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Speaker 1: experienced painful mendometriosis, as we've spoken to you about before,

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Speaker 1: what was that like to you as just a woman

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Speaker 1: to sit in amongst all of that, knowing that that's

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Speaker 1: also part of your story.

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Speaker 4: What struck me was just that deep generosity of other

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Speaker 4: women in terms of sharing their experience to bring about change.

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Speaker 4: But it was also a really educative process, I think

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Speaker 4: for all of it who participated in the different forums,

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Speaker 4: and if I can say clear, one of the things

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Speaker 4: I took away from this processes I took myself off

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Speaker 4: to the doctor. After having listened to women health experts

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Speaker 4: and other women, I kind of went, oh, hang on

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Speaker 4: a minute, I've just turned fifty. I'd better get a

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Speaker 4: few of these different things that I've been experiencing with

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Speaker 4: my body checked out. So it actually encouraged me. And

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Speaker 4: you would think I'm someone clear who would be tuned

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Speaker 4: into systems and understanding, but it just really made me

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Speaker 4: understand that women we possibly don't give ourselves enough attention.

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Speaker 4: We asselves can sometimes just put up with the symptoms,

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Speaker 4: put up with these conditions. And it's when you talk

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Speaker 4: to other women you are in many ways empowered to

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Speaker 4: go and make sure that you get the support and

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Speaker 4: advice and help that you need.

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Speaker 1: Well that's the thing, isn't it, Because a lot of

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Speaker 1: these conversations we have is because women don't feel hurt,

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Speaker 1: they don't feel like they are taken seriously when they

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Speaker 1: do go to their healthcare professionals with some of these conditions.

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Speaker 1: And are often sometimes told that it might even be

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Speaker 1: in their own head or just part of being a woman.

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Speaker 1: Did you get that as a common theme from women

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Speaker 1: that they felt like they weren't heard by GPS and

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Speaker 1: other kinds of doctors.

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Speaker 4: Oh, clar I must say, even though I heard that

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Speaker 4: phrase repeated on a number of occasions, it's still deeply

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Speaker 4: shocked me that women were told it's in your head,

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Speaker 4: put up with it, it's not real pain, sent time

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Speaker 4: with a panetol, and told to pop a heat pack

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Speaker 4: on their tummy, you know, like it continued to really

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Speaker 4: shock me. And again it speaks to why this work

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Speaker 4: is so important to both have running alongside the advice

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Speaker 4: that we're going to get from the health experts and

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Speaker 4: the profession, to have that lived experience built into this process,

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Speaker 4: because there is clearly a need for our health system

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Speaker 4: to recognize and respond in a very different way to

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Speaker 4: women's pain and women's experiences.

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Speaker 1: What common threads as far as conditions did you find

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Speaker 1: amongst the women who've submitted to this inquiry. We presure

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Speaker 1: um endometriosis is probably up there in the top three.

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Speaker 4: I would imagine, Yeah, absolutely, Endo's such a big one.

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Speaker 4: And again because it continues to be one that is

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Speaker 4: not well understood, well diagnosed, talked about. And also too,

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Speaker 4: this was the other really important thing that came out

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Speaker 4: of the forums and also the submissions is not shocking news.

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Speaker 4: I know we're all different, each of our bodies is different,

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Speaker 4: so how ENDO manifests in each woman can be different

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Speaker 4: in terms of the symptoms and the experiences, so it's

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Speaker 4: important to understand that as well. But yes, pelvic pain

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Speaker 4: and more broadly women's pain in general as well came

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Speaker 4: out really really strongly. Polycystic overy syndrome came out as well,

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Speaker 4: and then also for women of a certain age, that

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Speaker 4: old friend menopause came out pretty strongly as well. And again,

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Speaker 4: how you know the symptoms that can at times hit

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Speaker 4: you out of the blue and not knowing that it's

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Speaker 4: a symptom of menopause until you talk about it, particularly

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Speaker 4: talk about it with other women like we had it

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Speaker 4: at forums. There was a lot of sharing, a lot

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Speaker 4: of sharing, which was such a valuable part of the process.

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Speaker 1: Well as somebody whose own personal GP didn't know what

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Speaker 1: the term perimenopause meant. I feel very deeply about the

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Speaker 1: conversation that we're having right now. Being a woman of

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Speaker 1: a certain age, I want to know though, when we

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Speaker 1: hear about these inquiries, and the same can be said

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Speaker 1: for royal commissions. And at the end of it, there

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Speaker 1: will be a report and there will be recommendations. The

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Speaker 1: biggest concern I think a lot of women have in

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Speaker 1: this particular instance is they finally get this moment to

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Speaker 1: be heard where they maybe generally have not been listened to.

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Speaker 1: But then those recommendations won't be listened to. What's the

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Speaker 1: guarantee that any of this is going to lead anywhere.

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Speaker 4: Look, I can understand that, particularly when we've been talking

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Speaker 4: about a problem that a system has ignored for decades

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Speaker 4: and generations. In terms of responding, there's a couple of

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Speaker 4: points on that, Claire. One is the submissions to forums.

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Speaker 4: This all is being fed into a report that has

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Speaker 4: been oversighted by our Women's Health Advisory Council, so that's

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Speaker 4: already an existing body that provides advice direct to government.

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Speaker 4: And then I can only say this to you, Claire,

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Speaker 4: we are a government that is determined to support women

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Speaker 4: to make this change. We called the inquiry in the

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Speaker 4: first place because we identified it as a problem, and

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Speaker 4: that's the first step on fixing a problem is recognizing it,

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Speaker 4: understanding it, and then having a process that gives women

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Speaker 4: the opportunity to share their lived experience. As we wait

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Speaker 4: for the work to be done in that report and

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Speaker 4: the recommendations to government, can I also say that we're

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Speaker 4: not waiting. We're already setting up dedicated women's health clinics

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Speaker 4: that does provide free, comprehensive care for all those conditions

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Speaker 4: we talked about earlier, like endo and pelvic pain. And

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Speaker 4: I've visited a couple of these centers that we've already

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Speaker 4: got set up, and what's just so important about them

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Speaker 4: is that they're multidisciplinary, which is a health word for

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Speaker 4: saying there's a whole bunch of different professions in the

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Speaker 4: one place. So there is work that we're already doing,

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Speaker 4: and again, the feedback from the inquiry feeds into the

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Speaker 4: work we already have. I just can't wait to get

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Speaker 4: that final report because I'm absolutely certain it's going to

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Speaker 4: provide some really key important recommendations how we do need

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Speaker 4: to drive change through our health system to better support women.

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Speaker 1: Some of the feedback we got, though from those who

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Speaker 1: did submit to this inquiry is that sometimes the barrier

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Speaker 1: to getting that help is purely socioeconomic that they don't

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Speaker 1: have the money. And we heard a story from someone

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Speaker 1: even today who told us that they had to outlay

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Speaker 1: more than one thousand dollars to get CT scans and

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Speaker 1: various other appointments before they realized that there was actually

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Speaker 1: something wrong with her. How do we help those women

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Speaker 1: who just simply cannot afford to get the health care

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Speaker 1: that they need. This is so important, particularly the time

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Speaker 1: where access to GP is tougher than it's ever been before.

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Speaker 1: Those women's health clinics that I mentioned earlier, they're free.

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Speaker 1: Women can walk through the door and get their advice

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Speaker 1: free through those women's health clinics.

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Speaker 4: And then on top of that, we also have a

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Speaker 4: range of initiatives here in Victoria, recognizing that the GP

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Speaker 4: systems really challenged. We have initiatives like Nurse on Call,

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Speaker 4: which is a free phone based service that people can call.

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Speaker 4: We have the Victorian Virtual Emergency Department. It's like a

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Speaker 4: normal physical emergency department, except you can do it all

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Speaker 4: online and aging that is a free service. And then

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Speaker 4: to give a shout out to our pharmacies, we have

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Speaker 4: our community pharmacy work here where you can go in

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Speaker 4: and get treated for a UTI, or you can get

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Speaker 4: fill scriptory filled through your pharmacy. So these are some

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Speaker 4: of the things we're doing. But you're absolutely right, access

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Speaker 4: to healthcare and costs a barrier to access of health

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Speaker 4: care is a really important issue that we need to

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Speaker 4: continue to understand. Is a barrier to women getting access

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Speaker 4: to the treatment they need.

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Speaker 1: I think what we really need and having clinics that

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Speaker 1: are specifically dedicated to women is really important. But I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of women are still going to go

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Speaker 1: to their local gps, and they're still going to go

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Speaker 1: to their local healthcare professionals. What are we going to

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Speaker 1: do about those systems where women have come up against

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Speaker 1: barriers where people don't believe them, or these gps haven't

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Speaker 1: been educated for women's health in particular. And where I

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Speaker 1: live is regional New South Wales, and I know that

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Speaker 1: the gps here are not trained in women's health specifically,

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Speaker 1: and there is nowhere else to go unless you want

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Speaker 1: to travel really long distances to find somebody. So how

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Speaker 1: do you then retrain a legion of healthcare professionals across

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Speaker 1: Victoria to make sure that they are listening well?

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Speaker 4: Claire, this was something the health workers that submitted to

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Speaker 4: the inquiry told us as well. But I'm absolutely anticipating

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Speaker 4: that this will be an area that's identified in the

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Speaker 4: final report for further work. I know from the work

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Speaker 4: we've already done with various health professionals and that the

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Speaker 4: bodies that represent them they understand that this is an

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Speaker 4: issue that we may need to look at. As you've

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Speaker 4: identified the training programs and courses, I'm anticipating the reports

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Speaker 4: going to go to a lot of these important system

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Speaker 4: changes where we'll need to work with the health profession

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Speaker 4: on delivering improved outcomes.

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Speaker 1: I guess finally, and you've kind of touched on this

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Speaker 1: yourself after listening to these stories and realizing, hey, maybe

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Speaker 1: I should probably go and get a few things checked

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Speaker 1: out myself, is that we have to retrain ourselves too

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Speaker 1: to not just put up with stuff, right, because we're

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Speaker 1: so used to being told that's kind of a woman's lot.

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Speaker 1: It's to do with your menstrual cycle, it's just recovery

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Speaker 1: from childbirth, it's your uterus, it's just what happens to women.

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Speaker 1: I guess we have to kind of retrain ourselves in

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Speaker 1: the way that we think.

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Speaker 4: To absolutely there's a quote for you. It's just your uterus.

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Speaker 4: It's not just our uterus, it's our body. It's our

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Speaker 4: physical and mental health that deserves to be treated and

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Speaker 4: recognized and understood. And again, one of the most powerful

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Speaker 4: takeouts I've had from the forums I've attended is the

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Speaker 4: way young women have stood up and spoken out in

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Speaker 4: a really strong, confident way that's also demanding the system

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Speaker 4: be changed. And that's been a really powerful experience to

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Speaker 4: see young women absolutely demanding that the system improve and

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Speaker 4: change to support all women.

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Speaker 1: This gene hails Women's Health Week. The message from those

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Speaker 1: who've suffered pain and haven't been taken seriously is very clear.

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Speaker 1: Just listen, listen, and listen again. Once I finally got

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Speaker 1: the pain relief that I wanted and needed, I felt

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Speaker 1: like my whole world changed. It was like I was

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Speaker 1: interested in life again. The quickie is produced by me

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Speaker 1: Claire Murphy and our senior producer Taylor Strano, with audio

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Speaker 1: production by Tom Lyin.