1 00:00:11,445 --> 00:00:16,205 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges 2 00:00:16,285 --> 00:00:19,125 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land and waters that this 3 00:00:19,165 --> 00:00:20,925 Speaker 1: podcast is recorded. 4 00:00:20,445 --> 00:00:29,805 Speaker 2: On Hello and welcome to Parenting Out Loud. I am 5 00:00:29,885 --> 00:00:33,644 Speaker 2: Jesse Stevens and I am joined by Amelia Lester. We 6 00:00:33,685 --> 00:00:37,245 Speaker 2: are embarking on a mini series all about what's happening 7 00:00:37,405 --> 00:00:40,485 Speaker 2: this week through the lens of being a parent. And 8 00:00:40,525 --> 00:00:42,405 Speaker 2: to be clear, we are not going to be talking 9 00:00:42,525 --> 00:00:44,805 Speaker 2: about wheat bix in our hair or vomit on our shirts. 10 00:00:45,245 --> 00:00:47,485 Speaker 2: This is not your mother's group. It's a series that 11 00:00:47,525 --> 00:00:50,005 Speaker 2: we hope will make your world feel just a little 12 00:00:50,045 --> 00:00:53,085 Speaker 2: bit bigger. In short, if parents are thinking about it, 13 00:00:53,205 --> 00:00:57,845 Speaker 2: we are talking about it. Welcome Amelia Lester. How old 14 00:00:57,845 --> 00:00:58,805 Speaker 2: are your kids now? 15 00:00:59,045 --> 00:01:01,845 Speaker 1: My kids are five and seven. They're both in school, 16 00:01:02,005 --> 00:01:05,765 Speaker 1: which has given me an unexpected sense of order and 17 00:01:05,804 --> 00:01:08,485 Speaker 1: serenity because I know where they'll be most days and 18 00:01:08,524 --> 00:01:10,005 Speaker 1: I don't have to think about it anymore. 19 00:01:10,405 --> 00:01:12,444 Speaker 2: And it's not all the day care fees. 20 00:01:12,645 --> 00:01:15,645 Speaker 1: No, it's very cost efficient. I moved back to Australia 21 00:01:15,645 --> 00:01:18,245 Speaker 1: from the US, where I spent the last twenty years 22 00:01:18,244 --> 00:01:20,564 Speaker 1: on and off last year, and I guess I should 23 00:01:20,565 --> 00:01:22,604 Speaker 1: say that. In my day job while my children are 24 00:01:22,604 --> 00:01:24,605 Speaker 1: at school, I am a journalist. 25 00:01:24,444 --> 00:01:27,645 Speaker 2: And I have a toddler as well as a niece 26 00:01:27,645 --> 00:01:30,244 Speaker 2: who I claim as my own. And you may know 27 00:01:30,324 --> 00:01:32,845 Speaker 2: my voice from Mummy Are Out Loud or I also 28 00:01:32,884 --> 00:01:35,604 Speaker 2: hosted The Baby Bubble recently with my twin sister Claire 29 00:01:35,964 --> 00:01:39,365 Speaker 2: and Hallo Bump, which is all about pregnancy. I'm on 30 00:01:39,405 --> 00:01:41,605 Speaker 2: Mummy Out Loud thirty three times a week, so I'm 31 00:01:41,684 --> 00:01:45,884 Speaker 2: sure you know me well. On today's show, the grandparents 32 00:01:45,964 --> 00:01:49,525 Speaker 2: are not okay. In fact, they're reaching their limit. Since 33 00:01:49,565 --> 00:01:53,445 Speaker 2: when did grandparenting become a full time job? Plus the 34 00:01:53,525 --> 00:01:57,005 Speaker 2: boy who came back, the searingly honest article that got 35 00:01:57,085 --> 00:01:59,925 Speaker 2: us thinking about what it means when your world as 36 00:01:59,965 --> 00:02:03,445 Speaker 2: a parent implodes and the reaction of the people around you. 37 00:02:03,885 --> 00:02:08,165 Speaker 2: But first, Mormon wives, We've got Ballerina Farm, We've got 38 00:02:08,205 --> 00:02:10,885 Speaker 2: this secret lives of Mormon wives, We've got tradwhite culture. 39 00:02:11,125 --> 00:02:13,965 Speaker 1: People keep grabbing my arm and telling me I have 40 00:02:14,045 --> 00:02:17,365 Speaker 1: to watch this, And as someone who loves selling Sunset, 41 00:02:17,445 --> 00:02:20,885 Speaker 1: but that's kind of the extent of my reality TV immersion, 42 00:02:20,965 --> 00:02:24,685 Speaker 1: I need you to explain why it's suddenly the zeitgeist. 43 00:02:24,925 --> 00:02:27,925 Speaker 2: I have looked at what it is about this moment 44 00:02:28,085 --> 00:02:31,925 Speaker 2: that has made Mormon culture so prominent, right because there 45 00:02:32,005 --> 00:02:34,245 Speaker 2: was an article in the Washington Post end of last 46 00:02:34,325 --> 00:02:38,125 Speaker 2: year which was all about how twenty twenty four was 47 00:02:38,165 --> 00:02:42,125 Speaker 2: the year of Mormon women specifically, and this is what 48 00:02:42,165 --> 00:02:44,805 Speaker 2: the article said that Mormonism, and to be clear, that's 49 00:02:44,885 --> 00:02:47,525 Speaker 2: the theology of the Church of Jesus Christ in the 50 00:02:47,605 --> 00:02:50,485 Speaker 2: Latter day Saints, and it emphasizes a Christian view of 51 00:02:50,485 --> 00:02:54,445 Speaker 2: God and Jesus while incorporating sort of unique doctrines and practices. 52 00:02:54,525 --> 00:02:57,405 Speaker 2: So as someone who grew up Catholic, recognize some things, 53 00:02:57,445 --> 00:03:01,605 Speaker 2: don't recognize a lot. But it pairs very well with 54 00:03:01,965 --> 00:03:04,045 Speaker 2: social media and capitalism. 55 00:03:04,125 --> 00:03:06,805 Speaker 1: But isn't it like all about not drinking coffee or 56 00:03:06,845 --> 00:03:09,485 Speaker 1: alcohol and wearing odd undergarments? 57 00:03:09,645 --> 00:03:12,245 Speaker 2: Yes, well, I think that that's what's interesting is the 58 00:03:12,245 --> 00:03:15,645 Speaker 2: way in which it is engaging with the present moment, 59 00:03:15,725 --> 00:03:20,005 Speaker 2: right because part of Mormonism is about the performance of purity. 60 00:03:20,125 --> 00:03:23,445 Speaker 2: It's about performance, which obviously lends itself to social media. 61 00:03:23,525 --> 00:03:27,005 Speaker 2: It is about perfectionism, which you'll see in like a 62 00:03:27,165 --> 00:03:32,125 Speaker 2: Ballerina farm representation where it's all the matching clothes of 63 00:03:32,165 --> 00:03:34,965 Speaker 2: the kids and the beautiful hair and the beautiful home, 64 00:03:35,045 --> 00:03:37,365 Speaker 2: and there's something quite alluring about that. 65 00:03:37,565 --> 00:03:38,965 Speaker 1: So Ballerina Farmer's Mormon. 66 00:03:39,085 --> 00:03:42,085 Speaker 2: Yes. And it's the prairie dress as well, which is 67 00:03:42,125 --> 00:03:45,565 Speaker 2: there's something that feels quite nostalgic about it because in 68 00:03:45,805 --> 00:03:49,525 Speaker 2: the US, probably even more than here, but in Australia too, 69 00:03:50,085 --> 00:03:53,645 Speaker 2: parents are kind of broken. So the idea that you 70 00:03:53,765 --> 00:03:57,125 Speaker 2: live in this stunning farmhouse with all the kids you 71 00:03:57,205 --> 00:04:00,965 Speaker 2: could ever want, and you barely need to leave the house, yes, 72 00:04:01,165 --> 00:04:01,845 Speaker 2: really works. 73 00:04:01,925 --> 00:04:03,045 Speaker 1: I'm in. 74 00:04:03,525 --> 00:04:06,285 Speaker 2: And the other thing is that Mormon women traditionally are 75 00:04:06,325 --> 00:04:09,165 Speaker 2: not meant to work outside the home. Now social media 76 00:04:09,205 --> 00:04:12,045 Speaker 2: has given them a life which means that they can work. 77 00:04:12,045 --> 00:04:14,925 Speaker 2: They can actually make a heap of money and never 78 00:04:15,005 --> 00:04:18,565 Speaker 2: walk out their front door. So they're doing the cooking 79 00:04:18,605 --> 00:04:20,964 Speaker 2: and the sewing and all of that quite aspirational stuff 80 00:04:21,445 --> 00:04:27,045 Speaker 2: and we're all consuming it. And making money is part 81 00:04:27,085 --> 00:04:30,725 Speaker 2: of Mormonism in a way, it's not part of Catholicism, right. 82 00:04:30,805 --> 00:04:33,284 Speaker 2: It's like God blessed you if you walk around with 83 00:04:33,365 --> 00:04:34,325 Speaker 2: something very fancy. 84 00:04:34,325 --> 00:04:39,404 Speaker 1: And because it's very intertwined with it's a very American religion. 85 00:04:39,445 --> 00:04:42,005 Speaker 1: It was found in the United States. I believe in 86 00:04:42,085 --> 00:04:45,325 Speaker 1: Upstate New York. I have seen the Book of Mormon. Yes, 87 00:04:45,725 --> 00:04:48,205 Speaker 1: so I'm bringing them back knowledge to this and it 88 00:04:48,285 --> 00:04:51,565 Speaker 1: makes sense that therefore it would be more comfortable with capitalism. 89 00:04:51,645 --> 00:04:55,045 Speaker 1: So is this show about them sort of performing their 90 00:04:55,085 --> 00:04:57,725 Speaker 1: purity on social media because that sounds a bit boring. 91 00:04:57,925 --> 00:05:02,045 Speaker 2: Well, I think that it's about the hypocrisy. And I 92 00:05:02,085 --> 00:05:04,845 Speaker 2: suppose this is what makes it an interesting rich text 93 00:05:04,925 --> 00:05:07,005 Speaker 2: on social is that we know what the doctrine says, 94 00:05:07,005 --> 00:05:09,765 Speaker 2: and we know what the Bible says, and then you've 95 00:05:09,805 --> 00:05:12,885 Speaker 2: got people putting botox in their face, or drinking lots 96 00:05:12,885 --> 00:05:15,964 Speaker 2: of soft drink, or doing. 97 00:05:15,245 --> 00:05:19,125 Speaker 1: Lots of soft drinks. My god, this is crazy talk Jesse. 98 00:05:19,805 --> 00:05:22,285 Speaker 2: Or doing certain drugs. It's like the loopholes that they 99 00:05:22,325 --> 00:05:27,605 Speaker 2: find while also looking stunning. And also I read this 100 00:05:27,725 --> 00:05:30,765 Speaker 2: line in The Atlantic recently that said America loves mothers 101 00:05:30,805 --> 00:05:34,565 Speaker 2: more than it loves women, and I thought, there's something 102 00:05:34,605 --> 00:05:38,845 Speaker 2: about these Mormon mothers that we find particularly aspirational. If 103 00:05:38,845 --> 00:05:41,164 Speaker 2: you're in that, then you get a lot more license 104 00:05:41,605 --> 00:05:44,765 Speaker 2: to sort of muck around with the other stuff. But 105 00:05:44,805 --> 00:05:46,525 Speaker 2: it does make it addictive. 106 00:05:47,245 --> 00:05:51,805 Speaker 1: I also read that there's a whole subplot of something 107 00:05:51,845 --> 00:05:56,725 Speaker 1: called soft swinging. Yes, And I don't think they mean playgrounds. 108 00:05:56,485 --> 00:05:59,885 Speaker 2: No, no. And I think that it's like there are rules, 109 00:05:59,925 --> 00:06:01,565 Speaker 2: but they're weird rules. 110 00:06:01,365 --> 00:06:04,365 Speaker 1: Right, And I think part of this also I agreed 111 00:06:04,445 --> 00:06:07,525 Speaker 1: completely on the tradwife element, and it so speaks to 112 00:06:07,565 --> 00:06:10,085 Speaker 1: the anxieties of our times and not knowing whether the 113 00:06:10,165 --> 00:06:12,685 Speaker 1: wrong what overlords are going to take over, that we're 114 00:06:12,725 --> 00:06:15,765 Speaker 1: all diving deep on people who are perfecting their bread recipes. 115 00:06:15,805 --> 00:06:18,724 Speaker 1: But the soft swinging, I think is also part of 116 00:06:18,765 --> 00:06:23,405 Speaker 1: an exploration of polyamory that is happening amongst elder millennials 117 00:06:23,485 --> 00:06:25,485 Speaker 1: right now. Oh so true. 118 00:06:25,805 --> 00:06:28,445 Speaker 2: And that's the thing is that Mormon wife sush. Mormon 119 00:06:28,485 --> 00:06:31,805 Speaker 2: women are mothers, but they get to be sexy, and 120 00:06:31,845 --> 00:06:35,085 Speaker 2: we'd all like to still be a bit sexy. But 121 00:06:35,245 --> 00:06:38,844 Speaker 2: this vision of motherhood that we've been left with is 122 00:06:39,005 --> 00:06:44,005 Speaker 2: kind of like your asexual, your drab. And so there 123 00:06:44,085 --> 00:06:46,605 Speaker 2: is something that feels almost aspirational, being like, look at 124 00:06:46,605 --> 00:06:49,365 Speaker 2: their incredible sex lives. Yes, and they're pretty and they're 125 00:06:49,405 --> 00:06:52,125 Speaker 2: great mums. It's prairie a dressment make it sexy. It 126 00:06:52,165 --> 00:06:56,765 Speaker 2: makes total sense to me. Now are grandparents underperforming? It's 127 00:06:56,805 --> 00:06:59,565 Speaker 2: time for a performance review. A recent article in The 128 00:06:59,565 --> 00:07:03,645 Speaker 2: Atlantic unpacks a sentiment amongst millennials that their parents are 129 00:07:03,645 --> 00:07:06,925 Speaker 2: not chipping in enough to help with their families. But 130 00:07:06,965 --> 00:07:10,525 Speaker 2: then it argues that contrary to that perception, grandparents are 131 00:07:10,565 --> 00:07:12,565 Speaker 2: doing a lot. They're doing more than ever. In fact, 132 00:07:12,565 --> 00:07:16,405 Speaker 2: we're in the era of something called peak grandparenting. Let 133 00:07:16,405 --> 00:07:18,685 Speaker 2: me outline this argument because I'm very curious to see 134 00:07:18,685 --> 00:07:21,805 Speaker 2: whether you agree, Jesse. It argues that parents struggle has 135 00:07:21,845 --> 00:07:25,925 Speaker 2: become grandparents struggle because grandparents now aren't just the disciplinarians 136 00:07:26,005 --> 00:07:27,845 Speaker 2: or the playmates that they used to be, but they're 137 00:07:27,845 --> 00:07:31,605 Speaker 2: co parents. And a sociologist quoted in the article says 138 00:07:31,645 --> 00:07:34,165 Speaker 2: that the grandparents fall into three categories. You're ready for them. 139 00:07:34,365 --> 00:07:36,965 Speaker 1: Yes, there are those who look for every opportunity to 140 00:07:37,005 --> 00:07:39,845 Speaker 1: look after their grandkids. Those people are called Anne Stevens. 141 00:07:40,045 --> 00:07:43,605 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly right. That is my mother to a TEA. 142 00:07:44,125 --> 00:07:46,605 Speaker 1: Second category those who don't want to do any care 143 00:07:46,645 --> 00:07:49,405 Speaker 1: of grandkids. I don't actually know many grandparents who fit 144 00:07:49,445 --> 00:07:49,845 Speaker 1: this description. 145 00:07:50,005 --> 00:07:50,885 Speaker 2: I do, and we'll get to them. 146 00:07:50,925 --> 00:07:53,605 Speaker 1: Okay, good, Yeah. And a third category, which I really 147 00:07:53,725 --> 00:07:55,925 Speaker 1: that's what I want to talk about today, is grandparents 148 00:07:55,965 --> 00:07:58,765 Speaker 1: who want to be involved but they also want to 149 00:07:58,845 --> 00:08:03,365 Speaker 1: set boundaries. Some strategies that these grandparents try they commit 150 00:08:03,445 --> 00:08:05,525 Speaker 1: only to doing fun things with the kids. That means 151 00:08:05,525 --> 00:08:08,485 Speaker 1: no dentist visits, no math tutoring, just the fun stuff. 152 00:08:09,005 --> 00:08:12,405 Speaker 1: They semi regularly ignore their adult child's cause and they 153 00:08:12,445 --> 00:08:15,645 Speaker 1: help out only on certain days. And they do this 154 00:08:15,925 --> 00:08:19,445 Speaker 1: because they're tie it. It's only very recently that we've 155 00:08:19,485 --> 00:08:22,805 Speaker 1: developed this idea that grandparents should be always available. And 156 00:08:22,925 --> 00:08:25,525 Speaker 1: oh yeah, looking back on my childhood in the nineties, 157 00:08:25,565 --> 00:08:28,045 Speaker 1: I realized that was true. It's a very recent phenomenon. 158 00:08:28,445 --> 00:08:30,605 Speaker 1: It's basically happened for reasons you might expect. A lot 159 00:08:30,645 --> 00:08:33,844 Speaker 1: more people are working outside the home now, parenting itself 160 00:08:33,885 --> 00:08:38,325 Speaker 1: has intensified and people are living longer. So Jesse, what 161 00:08:38,684 --> 00:08:41,525 Speaker 1: do you make of this rise of grandparenting as a 162 00:08:41,525 --> 00:08:43,605 Speaker 1: full time job? And what do you say to these 163 00:08:43,605 --> 00:08:46,485 Speaker 1: grandparents who say, I love to be around my grandchildren, 164 00:08:46,485 --> 00:08:48,324 Speaker 1: but I also need my me time. 165 00:08:48,805 --> 00:08:50,805 Speaker 2: I worry about the ones who don't have the guts 166 00:08:50,845 --> 00:08:52,684 Speaker 2: to say that, because I think that you can easily 167 00:08:52,685 --> 00:08:56,204 Speaker 2: be exploited and then feel very exploited. But we talk 168 00:08:56,205 --> 00:08:59,965 Speaker 2: about the Sandwich generation, right, the generation that has elderly 169 00:09:00,325 --> 00:09:05,045 Speaker 2: parents who might require care and kids. But now there's 170 00:09:05,165 --> 00:09:08,485 Speaker 2: like a club sandwich generation, which is that those kids 171 00:09:08,565 --> 00:09:11,845 Speaker 2: have grandkids, so they're kind kind of smushed between these 172 00:09:11,885 --> 00:09:15,165 Speaker 2: three generations. And let's be honest who we're talking about here. 173 00:09:15,325 --> 00:09:18,165 Speaker 2: Are we talking about grandparents or are we talking about grandmothers? 174 00:09:18,645 --> 00:09:21,645 Speaker 2: Because the economy relies in order for mothers to go 175 00:09:21,725 --> 00:09:24,965 Speaker 2: back to work, they require their mothers or their in 176 00:09:25,085 --> 00:09:29,645 Speaker 2: laws to give up some paid work, to give up, 177 00:09:29,685 --> 00:09:34,205 Speaker 2: whether it's exercise, whether it's socializing, all of those things 178 00:09:34,245 --> 00:09:38,045 Speaker 2: which are like sacrifices after having done that for a 179 00:09:38,085 --> 00:09:41,525 Speaker 2: period of their lives, which is a big ask. So 180 00:09:41,565 --> 00:09:44,045 Speaker 2: I think that the economy and I remember, I think 181 00:09:44,085 --> 00:09:46,444 Speaker 2: it was last year JD. Vance was being asked about 182 00:09:46,445 --> 00:09:49,725 Speaker 2: the situation in the US and he said, maybe grandparents 183 00:09:49,725 --> 00:09:52,565 Speaker 2: could step up more. So you want them to fill 184 00:09:53,605 --> 00:09:56,245 Speaker 2: holes in the economy or the fact that childcare is 185 00:09:56,245 --> 00:10:00,445 Speaker 2: prohibitively expensive, or that every family requires two parents to 186 00:10:00,485 --> 00:10:03,804 Speaker 2: be working pretty close to full time. You're then relying 187 00:10:03,845 --> 00:10:08,645 Speaker 2: on the unpaid work of this generation. I think it's 188 00:10:08,645 --> 00:10:12,765 Speaker 2: about how much of it is a choice, right, Because 189 00:10:12,765 --> 00:10:15,725 Speaker 2: in some situations, if you've got a mum who says 190 00:10:15,925 --> 00:10:18,525 Speaker 2: we can't pay the bills unless I go back five days. 191 00:10:19,245 --> 00:10:24,045 Speaker 2: And you have someone in their seventies doing five days 192 00:10:24,045 --> 00:10:27,405 Speaker 2: a week like that is an enormous ask. And I 193 00:10:27,485 --> 00:10:31,645 Speaker 2: don't think culturally we've decided yet whether child rearing is 194 00:10:31,765 --> 00:10:34,205 Speaker 2: work or not. Like I think that our conception of 195 00:10:34,285 --> 00:10:37,565 Speaker 2: work is really like confused. 196 00:10:37,005 --> 00:10:38,645 Speaker 1: To an extent. That's so true. 197 00:10:38,685 --> 00:10:42,645 Speaker 2: What's your relationship like with your parents and help? 198 00:10:43,045 --> 00:10:48,245 Speaker 1: Well, this article really opened my mind because I moved 199 00:10:48,485 --> 00:10:52,965 Speaker 1: from the US back to Australia last year in part 200 00:10:53,085 --> 00:10:55,645 Speaker 1: because I wanted to spend more time with my parents, 201 00:10:55,685 --> 00:10:57,605 Speaker 1: and I wanted my children to spend more time with 202 00:10:57,645 --> 00:11:01,845 Speaker 1: my parents. And that has been such a rich and 203 00:11:01,885 --> 00:11:05,845 Speaker 1: rewarding experience I think for all parties, and I think 204 00:11:05,845 --> 00:11:09,245 Speaker 1: for all parties, it has also been a challenging experience. 205 00:11:09,405 --> 00:11:13,925 Speaker 1: It's been both those in part because my parents have 206 00:11:14,005 --> 00:11:15,885 Speaker 1: had to make trade offs. I don't want to speak 207 00:11:15,925 --> 00:11:19,485 Speaker 1: for them, but I can see and observe that, yes, 208 00:11:19,605 --> 00:11:23,245 Speaker 1: they have gained the company and the friendship with their 209 00:11:23,285 --> 00:11:26,605 Speaker 1: grandchildren that is so special, which can't be nurtured in 210 00:11:27,125 --> 00:11:30,725 Speaker 1: once a year trips, but they've also had to give 211 00:11:30,765 --> 00:11:33,405 Speaker 1: some things up. So the first and biggest thing they've 212 00:11:33,405 --> 00:11:35,805 Speaker 1: had to give up is they're retired. They used to 213 00:11:35,885 --> 00:11:38,845 Speaker 1: enjoy traveling. They kind of feel like they can't travel 214 00:11:38,885 --> 00:11:42,125 Speaker 1: like they used to now because I need them because 215 00:11:42,445 --> 00:11:46,165 Speaker 1: both my partner and I work full time, and although 216 00:11:46,205 --> 00:11:48,564 Speaker 1: both my children are in school, there's just so many 217 00:11:48,645 --> 00:11:51,645 Speaker 1: cracks that you have to paper over or stand over. 218 00:11:51,765 --> 00:11:54,444 Speaker 1: And so, for instance, anytime one of my kids is sick, 219 00:11:55,365 --> 00:11:58,645 Speaker 1: I call them, and I hate doing that because when 220 00:11:58,645 --> 00:12:01,725 Speaker 1: it comes to planned social events, I never call them. 221 00:12:01,805 --> 00:12:04,005 Speaker 1: I have a little bit of a rule, which is 222 00:12:04,005 --> 00:12:07,085 Speaker 1: that if I'm doing something fun, I have to get 223 00:12:07,125 --> 00:12:11,045 Speaker 1: a babysitter because it's not fair to use as just 224 00:12:11,125 --> 00:12:15,165 Speaker 1: sort of unpaid labor sitting around my place while my 225 00:12:15,245 --> 00:12:16,925 Speaker 1: kids are asleep. I want them to be able to 226 00:12:16,965 --> 00:12:19,565 Speaker 1: do fun things with them and to develop their relationship, 227 00:12:19,645 --> 00:12:22,365 Speaker 1: and doing bed time not fun not to help in 228 00:12:22,365 --> 00:12:25,125 Speaker 1: a relationship. So I get babysitters for that. But when 229 00:12:25,125 --> 00:12:27,565 Speaker 1: they're sick and have to come home from school, I 230 00:12:27,645 --> 00:12:31,325 Speaker 1: do have to call them because I've got to make 231 00:12:31,445 --> 00:12:34,765 Speaker 1: money and do my job. So I'm aware that that 232 00:12:34,845 --> 00:12:37,005 Speaker 1: means that, for instance, my mom might want to go 233 00:12:37,045 --> 00:12:39,845 Speaker 1: to her exercise class, as you mentioned, or my dad 234 00:12:39,925 --> 00:12:42,485 Speaker 1: might want to do his projects and then they have 235 00:12:42,565 --> 00:12:45,765 Speaker 1: to drop them to pick up the kids from school. Yeah, 236 00:12:45,805 --> 00:12:49,005 Speaker 1: and that sense of freedom that is being sacrificed, I 237 00:12:49,045 --> 00:12:51,805 Speaker 1: think is real. And I really loved that this piece 238 00:12:52,005 --> 00:12:55,725 Speaker 1: articulated that in a non judgmental way, because I think 239 00:12:55,765 --> 00:12:59,245 Speaker 1: this is a conversation we're only just beginning to have and. 240 00:12:59,285 --> 00:13:02,005 Speaker 2: Just because you love someone doesn't mean it's not work. 241 00:13:02,285 --> 00:13:04,605 Speaker 2: And there was some really good points. I think it 242 00:13:04,645 --> 00:13:06,805 Speaker 2: was in this article. It might have been another one 243 00:13:06,845 --> 00:13:09,525 Speaker 2: that was more Australian focused, and it was saying that 244 00:13:09,565 --> 00:13:12,405 Speaker 2: one in three grand parents in Australia help out with childcare. 245 00:13:12,925 --> 00:13:16,885 Speaker 2: But there's been studies done about grandparents and life expectancy 246 00:13:17,085 --> 00:13:21,125 Speaker 2: and how it really helps with cognition, really helps with 247 00:13:21,325 --> 00:13:26,165 Speaker 2: not feeling lonely, and how those connections can give you know, 248 00:13:26,325 --> 00:13:29,005 Speaker 2: some people are totally new lease on life. 249 00:13:28,725 --> 00:13:30,765 Speaker 1: And yet when I throw this back at my parents, 250 00:13:30,885 --> 00:13:32,885 Speaker 1: this is helping with your cognition. 251 00:13:32,765 --> 00:13:36,445 Speaker 2: Exactly, I'm giving you ten x three years. I've given 252 00:13:36,485 --> 00:13:40,684 Speaker 2: you purpose. But on the other hand, I was speaking 253 00:13:40,685 --> 00:13:44,885 Speaker 2: to a family friend recently who said that she moved 254 00:13:45,245 --> 00:13:48,685 Speaker 2: cities so that she couldn't be asked because she was 255 00:13:48,725 --> 00:13:52,005 Speaker 2: starting to feel so trapped by the expectations, and I 256 00:13:52,005 --> 00:13:54,165 Speaker 2: think she was in a bind because you off for 257 00:13:54,325 --> 00:13:57,085 Speaker 2: child one a certain level of care, so you go, 258 00:13:57,125 --> 00:13:59,205 Speaker 2: I'll look after them a day a week. But then 259 00:13:59,645 --> 00:14:02,125 Speaker 2: their second child comes, maybe their third child comes, But 260 00:14:02,165 --> 00:14:04,565 Speaker 2: then what if they got siblings, and then you've got seven, 261 00:14:04,645 --> 00:14:07,525 Speaker 2: and you're like, I'm doing fourteen days a week with children, 262 00:14:08,125 --> 00:14:11,525 Speaker 2: and I don't have the retirement that I wanted. I 263 00:14:11,565 --> 00:14:13,725 Speaker 2: don't have any of the freedom. And then I think 264 00:14:13,765 --> 00:14:16,805 Speaker 2: it also puts adult children who are adult parents in 265 00:14:16,845 --> 00:14:20,565 Speaker 2: a situation of going maybe they feel entitled to that privilege. 266 00:14:20,605 --> 00:14:22,765 Speaker 2: Like I know, I'm not sure what your experience is, 267 00:14:22,805 --> 00:14:25,485 Speaker 2: but when I speak to friends about I'm almost self 268 00:14:25,485 --> 00:14:27,725 Speaker 2: conscious about how much help I get because I know 269 00:14:27,885 --> 00:14:31,005 Speaker 2: that it is such a privilege and not everyone is 270 00:14:31,045 --> 00:14:34,445 Speaker 2: afforded it. Either they have lost their parents, and this 271 00:14:34,485 --> 00:14:37,085 Speaker 2: is a particularly difficult time to feel that loss, because 272 00:14:37,085 --> 00:14:39,565 Speaker 2: they know their parents would have loved to their parents 273 00:14:39,605 --> 00:14:43,845 Speaker 2: can't due to disability due to mobility issues, or their 274 00:14:43,885 --> 00:14:46,805 Speaker 2: parents don't want to, and that stinks. 275 00:14:47,325 --> 00:14:50,285 Speaker 1: Yeah, it must be hard. I'm curious for you because 276 00:14:50,325 --> 00:14:55,565 Speaker 1: you do have two grandmothers who, by all accounts pretty 277 00:14:55,645 --> 00:14:59,045 Speaker 1: enthusiastic about the task. Yeah, but that must put a 278 00:14:59,085 --> 00:15:01,405 Speaker 1: bit of pressure on you to just be a little 279 00:15:01,405 --> 00:15:03,685 Speaker 1: aware of how much you're asking them to do. You know, 280 00:15:03,765 --> 00:15:05,925 Speaker 1: they're never going to say no. You know they're always 281 00:15:05,925 --> 00:15:08,885 Speaker 1: going to express delight about being asked. But do you 282 00:15:08,965 --> 00:15:11,125 Speaker 1: have to therefore second guess how much much you're asking 283 00:15:11,165 --> 00:15:11,605 Speaker 1: them to do? 284 00:15:11,845 --> 00:15:14,925 Speaker 2: Yes. And the big one has been my twin sister 285 00:15:15,005 --> 00:15:18,325 Speaker 2: had a baby five months after me, So we now 286 00:15:18,805 --> 00:15:21,085 Speaker 2: constantly check in and go how many days. 287 00:15:21,205 --> 00:15:22,125 Speaker 1: I've got to coordinate. 288 00:15:22,165 --> 00:15:24,445 Speaker 2: We've got to coordinate because Mom's not gonna tell us, 289 00:15:24,485 --> 00:15:26,765 Speaker 2: and so I got no, she's not doing five days 290 00:15:26,765 --> 00:15:29,445 Speaker 2: between us. She'll do one day with me and maybe 291 00:15:29,445 --> 00:15:32,005 Speaker 2: she'll do one or two days with you. But I 292 00:15:32,085 --> 00:15:34,725 Speaker 2: know her exercise class is on a fast and we 293 00:15:34,765 --> 00:15:38,765 Speaker 2: are not asking her. We're very careful about that because 294 00:15:38,805 --> 00:15:41,205 Speaker 2: we want to protect her, because if we ask, she 295 00:15:41,245 --> 00:15:46,005 Speaker 2: will say yes. And that relationship, like watching my daughter's 296 00:15:46,005 --> 00:15:48,925 Speaker 2: relationship with her two grandmothers, is one of the greatest 297 00:15:49,005 --> 00:15:51,285 Speaker 2: jows of my life. Like it is, Oh my god, 298 00:15:51,365 --> 00:15:54,565 Speaker 2: they love each other so so much. But you're also like, 299 00:15:55,365 --> 00:15:56,445 Speaker 2: you need a break. 300 00:15:56,245 --> 00:15:58,845 Speaker 1: Yeah, they need rest. One thing I thought was really 301 00:15:58,885 --> 00:16:02,045 Speaker 1: interesting is that there was a study done in twenty 302 00:16:02,085 --> 00:16:04,885 Speaker 1: twenty one of British grandmothers and apparently all these British 303 00:16:04,925 --> 00:16:08,165 Speaker 1: grandmothers were like, why do I have to supervise these 304 00:16:08,245 --> 00:16:10,765 Speaker 1: children on everything? They were like, I've got to provise 305 00:16:10,805 --> 00:16:13,725 Speaker 1: their homework, I've got to provide them with educational activities, 306 00:16:14,125 --> 00:16:17,565 Speaker 1: and all of them were taken aback by how intensified 307 00:16:17,685 --> 00:16:19,285 Speaker 1: grandparenting has become. 308 00:16:19,645 --> 00:16:22,325 Speaker 2: I've had to go. My sister and I have talked 309 00:16:22,325 --> 00:16:24,485 Speaker 2: about this. When they are in the care of grandparents. 310 00:16:24,525 --> 00:16:26,645 Speaker 2: I think it's different. If it's paid, I think it's different. 311 00:16:26,645 --> 00:16:28,645 Speaker 2: If it's someone who's babysit whatever. 312 00:16:28,965 --> 00:16:30,885 Speaker 1: Then you can just tell them exactly what you want 313 00:16:30,885 --> 00:16:31,165 Speaker 1: to do what. 314 00:16:31,205 --> 00:16:33,965 Speaker 2: You want and there's a really clear exchange going on. 315 00:16:34,205 --> 00:16:37,525 Speaker 2: But when it is family, and you also know that 316 00:16:37,525 --> 00:16:39,685 Speaker 2: they raise their own kids like they do have a 317 00:16:39,725 --> 00:16:42,925 Speaker 2: good cv, you just go is your rules? Like I 318 00:16:43,005 --> 00:16:45,645 Speaker 2: called Mum the other day and it was ten am 319 00:16:45,685 --> 00:16:47,805 Speaker 2: and Luna had a bickie in each hand this movie 320 00:16:47,845 --> 00:16:48,805 Speaker 2: and I just went. 321 00:16:48,805 --> 00:16:49,525 Speaker 1: Wait, no, it was. 322 00:16:51,485 --> 00:16:55,565 Speaker 2: Between her eggs. It was the gross motor skills. That's 323 00:16:55,565 --> 00:16:56,445 Speaker 2: what grandma's teaching. 324 00:16:57,005 --> 00:16:59,165 Speaker 1: Are you truly able to surrender control like that. 325 00:16:59,445 --> 00:17:01,685 Speaker 2: I am in that situation. There are moments where it's 326 00:17:01,685 --> 00:17:04,284 Speaker 2: hard because I go, when she's with me, she's not 327 00:17:04,325 --> 00:17:08,045 Speaker 2: getting bikies, But I go, it's my rules when I'm 328 00:17:08,044 --> 00:17:10,165 Speaker 2: looking after her and the grandparents, And maybe it's my 329 00:17:10,445 --> 00:17:13,165 Speaker 2: Nan lived with me growing up, and interestingly, I didn't 330 00:17:13,165 --> 00:17:15,445 Speaker 2: feel like she was a parent in that she didn't 331 00:17:15,925 --> 00:17:19,605 Speaker 2: that supervision, that do your homework, That was never that. 332 00:17:20,045 --> 00:17:23,525 Speaker 2: But she was just this presence, a companion I thought 333 00:17:23,605 --> 00:17:25,725 Speaker 2: Nan was. And I laughed with Mum sometimes I go, 334 00:17:26,165 --> 00:17:28,004 Speaker 2: Luna thinks you're just a friend who comes over. She 335 00:17:28,045 --> 00:17:28,885 Speaker 2: doesn't know it's care. 336 00:17:29,325 --> 00:17:31,645 Speaker 1: I am so glad you raised this, because I think 337 00:17:31,685 --> 00:17:34,765 Speaker 1: this is the other thing that has changed over the generations. 338 00:17:34,845 --> 00:17:37,605 Speaker 1: I also had my grandmother living with us for much 339 00:17:37,645 --> 00:17:40,205 Speaker 1: of the time, and she and I were really good friends. 340 00:17:40,925 --> 00:17:43,445 Speaker 1: And she did not supervise my homework. She cut up 341 00:17:43,525 --> 00:17:47,005 Speaker 1: cubes of cheese for me to watch the Barcelona Olympics. Yes, 342 00:17:47,085 --> 00:17:49,645 Speaker 1: I am that old And then get smart always gets 343 00:17:50,405 --> 00:17:51,885 Speaker 1: in the afternoon mash. 344 00:17:51,765 --> 00:17:55,284 Speaker 2: Did you ever have mash on them? Burjoe's catchphrase was 345 00:17:55,325 --> 00:17:57,524 Speaker 2: the other one? And I loved old people. 346 00:17:57,925 --> 00:18:00,165 Speaker 1: Loved them and I'd eat my cubes of cheese and 347 00:18:00,165 --> 00:18:03,244 Speaker 1: then she make me cupcakes. She wasn't providing me with 348 00:18:03,325 --> 00:18:06,245 Speaker 1: any educational resources now, she wasn't even saying you should 349 00:18:06,245 --> 00:18:08,965 Speaker 1: really do your piano practice. That fell to my mother. 350 00:18:09,484 --> 00:18:12,005 Speaker 1: And yet I think now I do have this sort 351 00:18:12,045 --> 00:18:15,325 Speaker 1: of expectation that my parents are going to, for instance, 352 00:18:15,405 --> 00:18:17,925 Speaker 1: tell my son to do his piano practice. And why 353 00:18:17,925 --> 00:18:18,765 Speaker 1: did that happen? 354 00:18:19,125 --> 00:18:21,205 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so true. I think that we became more 355 00:18:21,205 --> 00:18:24,365 Speaker 2: intensive and with that we're projecting it because we're more anxious. 356 00:18:24,605 --> 00:18:26,885 Speaker 2: But I notice it with my mum. Sometimes my daughter 357 00:18:26,885 --> 00:18:28,605 Speaker 2: will be doing something and Mum will walk me out 358 00:18:28,605 --> 00:18:30,165 Speaker 2: the front door and will be standing on the thing 359 00:18:30,205 --> 00:18:34,205 Speaker 2: and I'm like, mate, who's watching Luna? Well, like, I'm 360 00:18:34,245 --> 00:18:37,165 Speaker 2: so intense in that situation, but I go, you raised 361 00:18:37,205 --> 00:18:39,965 Speaker 2: two sets of twins. Yeah, we got out of it somehow, 362 00:18:40,245 --> 00:18:43,605 Speaker 2: and I think she'll be fine. There was an article 363 00:18:43,645 --> 00:18:47,004 Speaker 2: published in The Guardian last month that I inhaled. It 364 00:18:47,125 --> 00:18:50,605 Speaker 2: was so beautifully written and so rich with insights and 365 00:18:50,965 --> 00:18:53,725 Speaker 2: detail about one of the most difficult things a parent 366 00:18:53,765 --> 00:18:56,605 Speaker 2: could ever go through. And it's funny. I often actively 367 00:18:56,645 --> 00:19:00,165 Speaker 2: avoid this content, but this was going around my sister 368 00:19:00,245 --> 00:19:01,445 Speaker 2: sent it to me and told me I had to 369 00:19:01,445 --> 00:19:04,205 Speaker 2: read it, and once I started, I couldn't put it down. 370 00:19:04,245 --> 00:19:05,205 Speaker 1: It was stunning. 371 00:19:05,685 --> 00:19:08,205 Speaker 2: The story was written by Archie Bland and it's called 372 00:19:08,245 --> 00:19:11,044 Speaker 2: The Boy Who Came Back, The Near Death and Changed 373 00:19:11,125 --> 00:19:14,125 Speaker 2: life of my son Max, and it tells the story 374 00:19:14,125 --> 00:19:16,965 Speaker 2: of how when Archie's son Max was seven weeks old, 375 00:19:17,085 --> 00:19:20,885 Speaker 2: he stopped breathing in his sleep. It was described as 376 00:19:21,045 --> 00:19:25,324 Speaker 2: an interrupted sid's situation is what they think happened. They 377 00:19:25,365 --> 00:19:27,685 Speaker 2: had a night nanny at the time, her name is Gina, 378 00:19:27,845 --> 00:19:30,885 Speaker 2: who realized he'd gone quiet, ran into his parents and 379 00:19:30,885 --> 00:19:33,965 Speaker 2: they immediately called an ambulance. Against the odds, he was 380 00:19:34,005 --> 00:19:37,845 Speaker 2: revived and as a result, Max lives with a disability. 381 00:19:37,885 --> 00:19:41,044 Speaker 2: It's unclear he's not yet too how this will impact 382 00:19:41,125 --> 00:19:45,325 Speaker 2: him going forward. They know he has cerebral palsy, which 383 00:19:45,365 --> 00:19:49,804 Speaker 2: impacts speech and gross motor function amelia separately. Without us 384 00:19:49,845 --> 00:19:54,045 Speaker 2: even discussing it, you had also read this article. What 385 00:19:54,165 --> 00:19:58,085 Speaker 2: do you think it was that resonated with people so 386 00:19:58,205 --> 00:20:00,845 Speaker 2: much and made it so deeply kind of affecting. 387 00:20:01,125 --> 00:20:03,604 Speaker 1: There are so many things in this piece that we 388 00:20:03,645 --> 00:20:07,965 Speaker 1: could talk about for hours. One aspect of it that 389 00:20:08,005 --> 00:20:10,765 Speaker 1: I want to talk about. Is this so there sure 390 00:20:11,045 --> 00:20:16,365 Speaker 1: impacts and effects of having a sick child, because it's 391 00:20:16,445 --> 00:20:19,764 Speaker 1: not the same as arching his family. Every situation is 392 00:20:19,805 --> 00:20:22,525 Speaker 1: of course different, but having had a child in hospital 393 00:20:22,565 --> 00:20:25,284 Speaker 1: for an extended period, there were parts which really resonated 394 00:20:25,325 --> 00:20:29,045 Speaker 1: with me. What I found interesting about it was how 395 00:20:29,165 --> 00:20:31,845 Speaker 1: isolating it was, because you'd think that when you have 396 00:20:31,925 --> 00:20:34,685 Speaker 1: a child in the hospital, everyone rallies around, and yes 397 00:20:34,765 --> 00:20:37,565 Speaker 1: they did. You know, there were meal trains, people were 398 00:20:37,565 --> 00:20:41,085 Speaker 1: constantly checking in with me. It's not that people didn't care, 399 00:20:41,605 --> 00:20:44,885 Speaker 1: but it's that no one knows what to say. And 400 00:20:45,325 --> 00:20:48,645 Speaker 1: the fact is that nothing anyone says is the right thing, and. 401 00:20:48,685 --> 00:20:54,125 Speaker 2: In fact, a misstep or a clumsy statement does so 402 00:20:54,285 --> 00:20:56,845 Speaker 2: much harm that I think that people get scared. And 403 00:20:56,845 --> 00:20:59,085 Speaker 2: that's what I found in this, And maybe I looked 404 00:20:59,085 --> 00:21:01,764 Speaker 2: at why I read it, and I think I've had 405 00:21:02,085 --> 00:21:05,324 Speaker 2: friends in that situation with sick kids, go through awful, 406 00:21:05,365 --> 00:21:08,645 Speaker 2: awful trauma of all different kinds, and you do the 407 00:21:08,685 --> 00:21:11,125 Speaker 2: gymnastics of trying to find the right thing to say. 408 00:21:11,205 --> 00:21:14,365 Speaker 2: And I was looking through this going I found it 409 00:21:14,445 --> 00:21:18,125 Speaker 2: really interesting what was the wrong thing to say? And 410 00:21:18,205 --> 00:21:21,605 Speaker 2: also he said so early on in the piece. Basically, 411 00:21:22,245 --> 00:21:24,165 Speaker 2: I don't want to be the story that you look 412 00:21:24,205 --> 00:21:27,005 Speaker 2: at that then makes you really grateful for your own kids. 413 00:21:27,045 --> 00:21:28,165 Speaker 2: That's really irritating. 414 00:21:28,285 --> 00:21:30,965 Speaker 1: Don't pull out the aphorisms, don't say things to him like, well, 415 00:21:31,005 --> 00:21:33,605 Speaker 1: I'm going to hug my own children tighter tonight. I 416 00:21:33,645 --> 00:21:34,045 Speaker 1: hate that. 417 00:21:34,165 --> 00:21:36,885 Speaker 2: I hate that. I suppose there's a truth in that 418 00:21:36,885 --> 00:21:40,285 Speaker 2: that whenever we consume things about parenting or kids, we're 419 00:21:40,285 --> 00:21:44,005 Speaker 2: always seeing our own It's empathy, but it also almost 420 00:21:44,045 --> 00:21:48,845 Speaker 2: dehumanizes his own son. And I found he had a 421 00:21:48,885 --> 00:21:52,845 Speaker 2: few things that people said to him, like comparing going, oh, well, 422 00:21:52,885 --> 00:21:55,125 Speaker 2: you know, my son was really slow to sit. 423 00:21:55,045 --> 00:21:58,405 Speaker 1: Up, or like, my son's just forever throwing his porridge 424 00:21:58,405 --> 00:22:00,765 Speaker 1: around the room. Yeah, he's a mess too. 425 00:22:00,925 --> 00:22:03,564 Speaker 2: As though it's the same when it absolutely isn't. But 426 00:22:03,605 --> 00:22:05,284 Speaker 2: I had someone close to me with a child in 427 00:22:05,365 --> 00:22:08,365 Speaker 2: hospital for a time recently, and again I'm not saying 428 00:22:08,405 --> 00:22:10,685 Speaker 2: that this is comparable or it's the same sitch situation 429 00:22:10,925 --> 00:22:14,125 Speaker 2: as the one depicted in the article. But the power 430 00:22:14,125 --> 00:22:16,685 Speaker 2: of this piece is that some of the things Archie 431 00:22:16,765 --> 00:22:20,805 Speaker 2: describes so beautifully did feel really familiar, and I hadn't 432 00:22:20,845 --> 00:22:23,605 Speaker 2: seen words around them before. It's interesting what you say 433 00:22:23,605 --> 00:22:28,525 Speaker 2: that there's people rally, but your focus is so singular, 434 00:22:29,165 --> 00:22:31,965 Speaker 2: and I don't think there's anything like it. You are 435 00:22:32,045 --> 00:22:35,765 Speaker 2: not sleeping, you have no appetite. It is hell on earth, 436 00:22:35,805 --> 00:22:38,885 Speaker 2: and even being in that environment is hell on Earth. 437 00:22:39,285 --> 00:22:42,725 Speaker 2: Like to be in an environment with other sick kids 438 00:22:42,405 --> 00:22:46,325 Speaker 2: is awful. And so to have him describe it, he 439 00:22:46,405 --> 00:22:48,685 Speaker 2: describes the orbits of like you walk out of the 440 00:22:48,685 --> 00:22:51,125 Speaker 2: hospital and still people understand this is around a hospital, 441 00:22:51,205 --> 00:22:54,525 Speaker 2: this is like serious shit. But then you go into 442 00:22:54,885 --> 00:22:58,245 Speaker 2: the quote unquote real world and there's just fury because 443 00:22:58,285 --> 00:23:01,845 Speaker 2: it's like you have no idea, how can you go? 444 00:23:02,085 --> 00:23:04,764 Speaker 1: Yeah. So basically this happened in twenty twenty, and for 445 00:23:04,845 --> 00:23:08,484 Speaker 1: that entire year, I was very aware of the fact 446 00:23:08,565 --> 00:23:13,085 Speaker 1: that I was pushing my friends away because anytime they 447 00:23:13,165 --> 00:23:16,085 Speaker 1: tried to reach out, I was filled with anger and 448 00:23:16,165 --> 00:23:19,845 Speaker 1: resentment that they didn't know what I'd gone through, couldn't 449 00:23:19,925 --> 00:23:21,965 Speaker 1: understand what I'd gone through. My life was so much 450 00:23:22,045 --> 00:23:25,085 Speaker 1: harder than theirs, and I was just furious at them. 451 00:23:25,125 --> 00:23:27,525 Speaker 1: And he pulls out a few things that people said 452 00:23:27,565 --> 00:23:31,245 Speaker 1: that really bothered him. So, for instance, one that really 453 00:23:31,405 --> 00:23:33,405 Speaker 1: got to me was that he said, don't tell me 454 00:23:33,525 --> 00:23:36,325 Speaker 1: that this is scary. Oh, how scary this must be 455 00:23:36,484 --> 00:23:38,965 Speaker 1: for you to have your kid in the hospital. And 456 00:23:39,045 --> 00:23:41,125 Speaker 1: that got me because that's something that I've said to 457 00:23:41,165 --> 00:23:44,005 Speaker 1: people i would sit in hospital, is that must be scary, 458 00:23:44,045 --> 00:23:46,845 Speaker 1: because that's what I think is the true thing to say. 459 00:23:46,845 --> 00:23:49,004 Speaker 1: But he says it's not scary. Scary is losing your 460 00:23:49,045 --> 00:23:51,405 Speaker 1: kid at the shopping mall. This is a whole other 461 00:23:51,445 --> 00:23:55,725 Speaker 1: existential level. And another thing that he doesn't want people 462 00:23:55,805 --> 00:24:00,005 Speaker 1: to say is to talk about how it makes them 463 00:24:00,205 --> 00:24:03,004 Speaker 1: grateful for their own lives and their own children, and 464 00:24:03,245 --> 00:24:06,205 Speaker 1: just let's talk about where we're at. So then he 465 00:24:06,285 --> 00:24:08,965 Speaker 1: mentioned some things that were helpful. One of them was 466 00:24:09,645 --> 00:24:12,045 Speaker 1: a friend of his pulled his son aside and put 467 00:24:12,085 --> 00:24:13,965 Speaker 1: him in front of the TV with all the other 468 00:24:14,085 --> 00:24:16,325 Speaker 1: kids that are social gathering. Didn't make a big fuss 469 00:24:16,325 --> 00:24:18,325 Speaker 1: about it, didn't check if that was okay for his 470 00:24:18,405 --> 00:24:21,645 Speaker 1: son to be there, just did this thing, this quiet 471 00:24:21,725 --> 00:24:25,245 Speaker 1: act of grace that enabled both the father to get 472 00:24:25,285 --> 00:24:28,205 Speaker 1: along with his socializing, but also for his son to 473 00:24:28,285 --> 00:24:30,885 Speaker 1: feel like a normal child amongst the other children. And 474 00:24:30,925 --> 00:24:34,084 Speaker 1: I thought that was such a beautiful, practical thing that 475 00:24:34,125 --> 00:24:35,205 Speaker 1: someone did for him. 476 00:24:35,525 --> 00:24:38,565 Speaker 2: I love that and I think there's a sense when 477 00:24:39,125 --> 00:24:41,325 Speaker 2: someone's in hospital that the people around you really just 478 00:24:41,325 --> 00:24:43,725 Speaker 2: want it to be over. So saying that it's scary, 479 00:24:44,125 --> 00:24:49,044 Speaker 2: being positive in a way that's actually not realistic, just 480 00:24:49,085 --> 00:24:51,564 Speaker 2: makes a person feel really unseen. People just want the 481 00:24:51,565 --> 00:24:53,605 Speaker 2: good news. That's why they're checking in because they want 482 00:24:53,605 --> 00:24:56,365 Speaker 2: the good news, and it's like it's not here. And 483 00:24:56,445 --> 00:25:00,685 Speaker 2: when it's when there's ongoing struggles, I think, yeah, people 484 00:25:00,765 --> 00:25:02,965 Speaker 2: lean on cliches, probably because I don't know what to say, 485 00:25:03,045 --> 00:25:05,765 Speaker 2: but I think it's helpful to kind of go, here's 486 00:25:05,805 --> 00:25:06,445 Speaker 2: what you do say. 487 00:25:06,565 --> 00:25:09,405 Speaker 1: I didn't want people texting me for precisely that reason, 488 00:25:09,445 --> 00:25:12,804 Speaker 1: saying how are things because it's exhausting to have to 489 00:25:12,885 --> 00:25:15,685 Speaker 1: update people with uncertain news. A lot of stuff that 490 00:25:15,725 --> 00:25:18,525 Speaker 1: happens in hospitals is uncertain, Like that's why I realized 491 00:25:18,525 --> 00:25:21,165 Speaker 1: through this process, well, this test came back, and they 492 00:25:21,205 --> 00:25:23,484 Speaker 1: don't really know what's going on. And a lot of 493 00:25:23,525 --> 00:25:25,244 Speaker 1: the time they didn't know what's going on, and so 494 00:25:25,405 --> 00:25:28,005 Speaker 1: it's hard to give people definitive updates. So I would 495 00:25:28,005 --> 00:25:32,564 Speaker 1: find myself sending these group emails and asking people just 496 00:25:32,685 --> 00:25:35,405 Speaker 1: to read but not right back, because then I have 497 00:25:35,525 --> 00:25:38,525 Speaker 1: the labor of having to respond to them. It took 498 00:25:38,565 --> 00:25:40,564 Speaker 1: me a long time to get over the anger that 499 00:25:40,645 --> 00:25:42,845 Speaker 1: I felt, a lot longer than it took for my 500 00:25:43,005 --> 00:25:46,845 Speaker 1: child to get better. And I just really appreciate how 501 00:25:47,285 --> 00:25:50,165 Speaker 1: he went there with this piece. He didn't hold back. 502 00:25:50,205 --> 00:25:52,004 Speaker 1: He could see that people were trying to help. But 503 00:25:52,125 --> 00:25:55,004 Speaker 1: it's also important that people understand how hard it is 504 00:25:55,045 --> 00:25:57,565 Speaker 1: to accept and receive that help at a time like this. 505 00:25:58,525 --> 00:26:02,244 Speaker 1: If you've ever wondered how a secession character might design 506 00:26:02,245 --> 00:26:05,405 Speaker 1: a playroom, the Wall Street Journal has you covered. A 507 00:26:05,525 --> 00:26:09,605 Speaker 1: recent Wall Street Journal article featured a playroom that's getting 508 00:26:09,605 --> 00:26:12,725 Speaker 1: me angry. It's a venture capitalist mother and a tech 509 00:26:12,885 --> 00:26:15,205 Speaker 1: entrepreneur father in the New York City neighborhood of the 510 00:26:15,245 --> 00:26:19,605 Speaker 1: West Village. They purchased a two bedroom apartment next door 511 00:26:19,645 --> 00:26:22,645 Speaker 1: to their four bedroom apartment just to turn it into 512 00:26:22,685 --> 00:26:25,925 Speaker 1: a retreat for their young daughters. Okay, I don't know 513 00:26:25,925 --> 00:26:29,205 Speaker 1: if they've heard of making a fort with blankets and 514 00:26:29,484 --> 00:26:33,285 Speaker 1: dining room chairs, but anyway, buying a two bedroom apartment 515 00:26:33,285 --> 00:26:33,685 Speaker 1: works too. 516 00:26:33,765 --> 00:26:35,285 Speaker 2: When I was a kid, I made that fought and 517 00:26:35,325 --> 00:26:36,845 Speaker 2: I put the blankets out, and then I let a 518 00:26:36,845 --> 00:26:39,405 Speaker 2: candle and I'll tell you there was holes in the 519 00:26:39,405 --> 00:26:40,405 Speaker 2: bottom of those chairs. 520 00:26:40,445 --> 00:26:43,285 Speaker 1: My mom still remembers that I live in a two 521 00:26:43,325 --> 00:26:47,125 Speaker 1: bedroom apartment. That's my two young children's retreat. Anyway, Setting 522 00:26:47,165 --> 00:26:50,524 Speaker 1: aside the extravagance of it all, what is making people incensed, 523 00:26:50,565 --> 00:26:53,484 Speaker 1: and I guess by people I mean me, is that 524 00:26:53,525 --> 00:26:57,085 Speaker 1: there are no colors in this retreat. At the request 525 00:26:57,125 --> 00:27:01,485 Speaker 1: of the Color of Verse clients. The designers embraced monastic restraint. 526 00:27:01,805 --> 00:27:05,045 Speaker 1: The Raw Street Journal rights it's very muted. The interior 527 00:27:05,045 --> 00:27:08,005 Speaker 1: designer is quoted as saying, so let me paint your picture, Jesse. 528 00:27:08,165 --> 00:27:11,244 Speaker 1: Because this is a podcast, hand to did rugs, a 529 00:27:11,325 --> 00:27:16,125 Speaker 1: custom mural chairs from Copenhagen, and fifty shades of beige, 530 00:27:16,484 --> 00:27:19,845 Speaker 1: or as the designers call it, oatmeal, flax, cream, stone, rope, 531 00:27:19,885 --> 00:27:23,804 Speaker 1: bone and ash. Why is everything to do with kids 532 00:27:23,885 --> 00:27:25,605 Speaker 1: suddenly looking like a Skims catalog. 533 00:27:25,845 --> 00:27:32,445 Speaker 2: I love beige. I will launch a passionate defense beigey. 534 00:27:33,005 --> 00:27:35,564 Speaker 2: It gets such a bad rap. And I bought like 535 00:27:35,645 --> 00:27:38,765 Speaker 2: linen for my bed recently and it was oatmeal with flax. 536 00:27:38,925 --> 00:27:42,484 Speaker 2: It was those shades that I went that's perfect. And 537 00:27:42,525 --> 00:27:47,045 Speaker 2: here's the reason everything to do with children is over 538 00:27:47,085 --> 00:27:52,004 Speaker 2: stimulating in my house. Despite my love of the neutrals. 539 00:27:52,085 --> 00:27:54,565 Speaker 2: I've got a red Elmo, I've got a blue bluey. 540 00:27:54,685 --> 00:27:56,365 Speaker 2: They yell in the middle of the night sometimes for 541 00:27:56,405 --> 00:27:59,005 Speaker 2: no reason because they batches go off. There is plato, 542 00:27:59,245 --> 00:28:02,165 Speaker 2: there are crayons there, and then you know, if the 543 00:28:02,205 --> 00:28:04,484 Speaker 2: TV goes on, don't even talk to me about the 544 00:28:04,484 --> 00:28:07,685 Speaker 2: colors that come up. We've got the wiggles, like there 545 00:28:07,805 --> 00:28:10,244 Speaker 2: is so much color. It is an assault on the senses. 546 00:28:10,845 --> 00:28:13,004 Speaker 2: Raising kids is an assault on the senses. It is 547 00:28:13,125 --> 00:28:16,685 Speaker 2: very overstimulating, quite like a nursery tour that I get 548 00:28:16,725 --> 00:28:19,764 Speaker 2: given on on social media sometimes, and I love when 549 00:28:19,805 --> 00:28:21,965 Speaker 2: they walk in and it's also neat, and. 550 00:28:22,125 --> 00:28:26,365 Speaker 1: They've always got these special custom designed cubes. Yes, yes, 551 00:28:26,445 --> 00:28:28,244 Speaker 1: And I tried doing that in my house and I 552 00:28:28,325 --> 00:28:30,844 Speaker 1: made signs with my apartment and I made signs for 553 00:28:30,885 --> 00:28:33,244 Speaker 1: them for the kids, like this is my son's toys, 554 00:28:33,245 --> 00:28:35,405 Speaker 1: this is my daughter's toys. Do you know how long 555 00:28:35,445 --> 00:28:39,005 Speaker 1: it took for that whole taxonomy to be completely tossed aside. 556 00:28:39,165 --> 00:28:41,365 Speaker 2: That's what's so funny is that the naivety of a 557 00:28:41,445 --> 00:28:44,005 Speaker 2: nursery is always like they barely go in there for 558 00:28:44,045 --> 00:28:46,485 Speaker 2: the first first little bit, and then the way that 559 00:28:46,525 --> 00:28:49,685 Speaker 2: people line up all the nappies and I think, oh. 560 00:28:49,325 --> 00:28:53,085 Speaker 1: You never you never do the lining of the name. 561 00:28:53,605 --> 00:28:55,645 Speaker 2: It's just and the like washing of the onesies and 562 00:28:55,645 --> 00:28:57,965 Speaker 2: the putting them back in. But the neutral, I mean, 563 00:28:58,245 --> 00:29:00,925 Speaker 2: I will also say that it's a real benefit for 564 00:29:01,525 --> 00:29:04,005 Speaker 2: hand me downs, like because we have a lot of beige. 565 00:29:04,285 --> 00:29:05,805 Speaker 2: I have friends who've had boys girls. 566 00:29:05,845 --> 00:29:06,485 Speaker 1: Whatever's true. 567 00:29:06,525 --> 00:29:09,645 Speaker 2: Let's gender neutral, very ginger neutral, which is great. And 568 00:29:09,805 --> 00:29:11,805 Speaker 2: if you don't know sex with baby, beige is also 569 00:29:11,845 --> 00:29:14,365 Speaker 2: really good to throw it in. I mean, look, I'm 570 00:29:14,365 --> 00:29:17,365 Speaker 2: not too essentialist about gender. I think girls can wear 571 00:29:17,365 --> 00:29:19,965 Speaker 2: blue and boys can wear pink. But some people, yeah, 572 00:29:20,005 --> 00:29:23,005 Speaker 2: that's why we go very yellow during that period. I 573 00:29:23,045 --> 00:29:25,125 Speaker 2: think the beige. I've seen an attack on beige, and 574 00:29:25,165 --> 00:29:28,045 Speaker 2: I just think I think we can allow it and 575 00:29:28,085 --> 00:29:29,325 Speaker 2: embrace more of the beige. 576 00:29:29,405 --> 00:29:31,725 Speaker 1: You know, you are convincing me here. And another thing 577 00:29:31,765 --> 00:29:35,604 Speaker 1: about beige or oatmeal or flax or the cereals is 578 00:29:35,645 --> 00:29:39,365 Speaker 1: that you can throw things on them and it's sort 579 00:29:39,405 --> 00:29:42,645 Speaker 1: of just all blends into the sort of beige camouflage 580 00:29:42,685 --> 00:29:44,885 Speaker 1: of it all. Vomit male, yes. 581 00:29:45,205 --> 00:29:48,085 Speaker 2: A light pool. I think you just smudge it in. 582 00:29:48,165 --> 00:29:49,485 Speaker 2: It does look like it's tonal. 583 00:29:49,725 --> 00:29:53,165 Speaker 1: It's actually tonal. As my husband is fond of saying 584 00:29:53,765 --> 00:29:57,285 Speaker 1: it's either blood, semen or urine. God, I hope it's urine. 585 00:29:58,685 --> 00:30:00,445 Speaker 2: We should say your husband or the doctor. 586 00:30:01,445 --> 00:30:06,085 Speaker 1: Sorry. Yeah, relevant, he deals with bodily fluids for. 587 00:30:06,085 --> 00:30:09,845 Speaker 2: A living Amelia. It is time for our recommendations of 588 00:30:09,885 --> 00:30:11,565 Speaker 2: the week. And look, the rule for this is that 589 00:30:11,605 --> 00:30:15,365 Speaker 2: it's recommendations that might apply to parents parenting adjacent. 590 00:30:15,845 --> 00:30:16,485 Speaker 1: That is the rule. 591 00:30:16,485 --> 00:30:17,445 Speaker 2: What is your recommendation? 592 00:30:17,885 --> 00:30:20,485 Speaker 1: It is a book. It is called Intermetso it is 593 00:30:20,525 --> 00:30:24,125 Speaker 1: by Sally Rooney. She's a really unknown niche writer. You 594 00:30:24,205 --> 00:30:26,285 Speaker 1: may not have heard of her. No, she's in fact 595 00:30:26,325 --> 00:30:30,325 Speaker 1: probably the most famous writer of AH generation. 596 00:30:30,605 --> 00:30:32,965 Speaker 2: I guess I have to say I have a confession 597 00:30:32,965 --> 00:30:33,725 Speaker 2: about this book. 598 00:30:33,885 --> 00:30:35,485 Speaker 1: I started it and I put it down. No, I 599 00:30:35,525 --> 00:30:37,445 Speaker 1: get it. I get it. I'm here to sell you 600 00:30:37,525 --> 00:30:39,005 Speaker 1: on it. It's not a new book. It came out 601 00:30:39,085 --> 00:30:41,725 Speaker 1: last year and it got very mixed reviews. Yeah, I 602 00:30:41,845 --> 00:30:44,005 Speaker 1: was not going to read it. I didn't enjoy her 603 00:30:44,045 --> 00:30:47,045 Speaker 1: last book. I just sort of felt like I understood 604 00:30:47,045 --> 00:30:50,005 Speaker 1: the stick of awkward Irish people falling in and out 605 00:30:50,005 --> 00:30:51,125 Speaker 1: of love. Did not need to. 606 00:30:51,125 --> 00:30:54,165 Speaker 2: Read that The love awkward Irish people, but this was like, it's. 607 00:30:54,045 --> 00:30:55,965 Speaker 1: Just too much. You know, this is like her third 608 00:30:56,045 --> 00:30:58,645 Speaker 1: or fourth book, and I get it. But then I 609 00:30:58,725 --> 00:31:01,845 Speaker 1: just picked it up at the library and needed something 610 00:31:01,845 --> 00:31:05,525 Speaker 1: to read. And I think it's my favorite of her books, 611 00:31:05,605 --> 00:31:08,765 Speaker 1: and it's absolutely the best book I've read all year. 612 00:31:09,005 --> 00:31:11,485 Speaker 1: And I want to say what I think people miss 613 00:31:11,565 --> 00:31:13,645 Speaker 1: They missed the point to me. I think that this 614 00:31:13,725 --> 00:31:16,445 Speaker 1: is a book about two brothers. It's about the relationship 615 00:31:16,485 --> 00:31:19,765 Speaker 1: between brothers, and I love that because I have a 616 00:31:19,765 --> 00:31:24,125 Speaker 1: brother and I'm always reading books about relationships between sisters. 617 00:31:24,685 --> 00:31:27,765 Speaker 1: And I think that's because novels these days are read 618 00:31:27,845 --> 00:31:30,725 Speaker 1: and written by women, so naturally I think we're going 619 00:31:30,765 --> 00:31:35,045 Speaker 1: to gravitate towards stories about women. But this really made 620 00:31:35,085 --> 00:31:38,005 Speaker 1: me think about and reflect on my relationship with my brother, 621 00:31:38,205 --> 00:31:41,045 Speaker 1: and it helped me to understand it a little bit more. 622 00:31:41,565 --> 00:31:44,765 Speaker 1: I love that Sally Rooney made such a valiant attempt 623 00:31:44,885 --> 00:31:49,405 Speaker 1: to live inside the minds of two men. This never happens. 624 00:31:49,525 --> 00:31:52,005 Speaker 2: She did do that very very well, and the inner 625 00:31:52,045 --> 00:31:55,365 Speaker 2: world of the men came across as very authentic well. 626 00:31:55,365 --> 00:31:57,045 Speaker 1: To be honest, I have no idea if she did 627 00:31:57,085 --> 00:32:00,685 Speaker 1: it well or not, because I'm not a man, but 628 00:32:00,805 --> 00:32:03,765 Speaker 1: to me it was just really compelling. Whether or not 629 00:32:03,805 --> 00:32:06,005 Speaker 1: it was accurate or not, I will have to leave 630 00:32:06,005 --> 00:32:08,005 Speaker 1: that to the men. But it did give me a 631 00:32:08,085 --> 00:32:11,965 Speaker 1: sense that I understood my brother better and my relationship 632 00:32:12,005 --> 00:32:14,845 Speaker 1: with him a little better. So basically, about Peter and 633 00:32:14,885 --> 00:32:17,485 Speaker 1: Ivan Kubeck, they are brothers who live in Dublin, their 634 00:32:17,485 --> 00:32:21,365 Speaker 1: fathers just died. They're both negotiating romantic relationships with women. 635 00:32:21,445 --> 00:32:24,005 Speaker 1: It is in fact about awkward Irish people. I need 636 00:32:24,045 --> 00:32:27,485 Speaker 1: to make that clear up front. But I loved getting 637 00:32:27,485 --> 00:32:30,445 Speaker 1: an insight or feeling like I got an insight into 638 00:32:30,645 --> 00:32:35,405 Speaker 1: how men think about women and how men think about 639 00:32:35,405 --> 00:32:38,125 Speaker 1: their siblings. And that's why I'm recommending it. 640 00:32:38,205 --> 00:32:41,325 Speaker 2: Maybe I should pick it back up. I have two recommendations. 641 00:32:41,525 --> 00:32:43,765 Speaker 2: My first recommendation is a tony box. 642 00:32:43,805 --> 00:32:44,645 Speaker 1: Have you heard of? 643 00:32:45,125 --> 00:32:45,405 Speaker 2: Yes? 644 00:32:45,565 --> 00:32:48,245 Speaker 1: Yes, I have one, and I need to dig it up. 645 00:32:48,325 --> 00:32:49,805 Speaker 1: Remind me why it's good. 646 00:32:50,045 --> 00:32:55,405 Speaker 2: Okay, So the tony box is like a soft box thing, 647 00:32:56,045 --> 00:32:58,565 Speaker 2: and then you get Tony's what they're called, and we've 648 00:32:58,605 --> 00:33:01,325 Speaker 2: got like a gruffalo or a pepper pig, and you 649 00:33:01,405 --> 00:33:03,965 Speaker 2: put it on top and it either sing songs or 650 00:33:03,965 --> 00:33:06,685 Speaker 2: tells stories or whatever, and the idea is the way 651 00:33:06,725 --> 00:33:08,205 Speaker 2: that a lot of people talk to me about it 652 00:33:08,325 --> 00:33:12,205 Speaker 2: was you get them off screens really interactive and they 653 00:33:12,605 --> 00:33:15,365 Speaker 2: love it, and so it's a great way for them 654 00:33:15,485 --> 00:33:17,885 Speaker 2: to feel really entertained by pig without looking at a screen, 655 00:33:17,965 --> 00:33:20,565 Speaker 2: and as we know, that is parenting in twenty twenty five. 656 00:33:20,765 --> 00:33:23,645 Speaker 2: Just finding weaselways around screens. 657 00:33:23,485 --> 00:33:25,405 Speaker 1: Is Luna's favorite pepper No. 658 00:33:25,485 --> 00:33:29,565 Speaker 2: Her favorite is the dog because it does round and around. 659 00:33:29,765 --> 00:33:31,605 Speaker 2: There's some song that she loves doing because she does 660 00:33:31,605 --> 00:33:32,885 Speaker 2: the dances to it, but we have to do it 661 00:33:32,925 --> 00:33:34,965 Speaker 2: every night. There's one that does lullabies, so we put 662 00:33:35,045 --> 00:33:37,885 Speaker 2: that on before bed. And full disclosure, this was a gift, 663 00:33:37,925 --> 00:33:39,925 Speaker 2: so I didn't buy this myself, and then I looked 664 00:33:40,005 --> 00:33:41,485 Speaker 2: up how much it was, and that's why I was 665 00:33:41,485 --> 00:33:44,725 Speaker 2: a little bit self conscious about my recommendation because they 666 00:33:45,165 --> 00:33:47,365 Speaker 2: cost I think it's about one hundred and eighty nine 667 00:33:47,525 --> 00:33:50,325 Speaker 2: dollars for a box, and the Tony's at twenty nine 668 00:33:50,325 --> 00:33:53,525 Speaker 2: dollars each, so I understand that that's a lot. And 669 00:33:53,565 --> 00:33:55,885 Speaker 2: I always get funny when like toys are recommended that 670 00:33:55,925 --> 00:33:58,565 Speaker 2: are really expensive and it feels like they would make 671 00:33:58,605 --> 00:34:02,165 Speaker 2: parenting easier, Like I just don't love that. I also 672 00:34:02,245 --> 00:34:04,845 Speaker 2: think from what I've heard, they last for years and years. 673 00:34:04,925 --> 00:34:05,925 Speaker 1: We've had us for years. 674 00:34:06,045 --> 00:34:08,725 Speaker 2: Yes, and it appeals to a five year old in 675 00:34:08,725 --> 00:34:11,124 Speaker 2: a different way than it appears to a two year old. 676 00:34:11,964 --> 00:34:14,444 Speaker 2: I'm going to check another one out there, which is 677 00:34:14,525 --> 00:34:17,484 Speaker 2: a recipe Amelia I your kids pickI eaters. I know 678 00:34:17,484 --> 00:34:20,124 Speaker 2: we're not meant to use that term, but are they pis. 679 00:34:19,805 --> 00:34:21,564 Speaker 1: Not really to be honest. 680 00:34:21,285 --> 00:34:25,205 Speaker 2: But people who hesitate, I'm like, they're fine. It's the 681 00:34:25,205 --> 00:34:26,884 Speaker 2: ones that are like my child. 682 00:34:26,884 --> 00:34:30,564 Speaker 1: Oh, let me tell you they food and. 683 00:34:30,484 --> 00:34:33,444 Speaker 2: It's like my child eats four foods. Let's just say that. 684 00:34:33,564 --> 00:34:36,604 Speaker 2: The list in my phone of foods my Childie's the 685 00:34:36,964 --> 00:34:40,045 Speaker 2: God send for us have been these things called oat 686 00:34:40,125 --> 00:34:43,605 Speaker 2: bars and this would work for kids. That sounds fibrous, yes, yes, 687 00:34:43,645 --> 00:34:46,725 Speaker 2: fibrous and has nutrients. And I'm just like, if she 688 00:34:46,765 --> 00:34:48,724 Speaker 2: has one of those, at least she had something. It's 689 00:34:48,765 --> 00:34:50,685 Speaker 2: like a really good music. But I would eat one. 690 00:34:50,805 --> 00:34:53,725 Speaker 2: And so it's oats. You put in bananas, the more 691 00:34:54,044 --> 00:34:56,444 Speaker 2: ripe they are, the better, and then you can literally 692 00:34:56,685 --> 00:34:59,285 Speaker 2: throw in like carrots or dates or prunes or one 693 00:34:59,325 --> 00:35:01,325 Speaker 2: time I throw on some beetroots and then you check 694 00:35:01,364 --> 00:35:03,404 Speaker 2: at the oven and they last. I make them every 695 00:35:03,404 --> 00:35:05,924 Speaker 2: week and you can freeze them and whatever, and Luna 696 00:35:06,404 --> 00:35:08,245 Speaker 2: lives off them and every time she eats them, I 697 00:35:08,285 --> 00:35:10,084 Speaker 2: feel like a good because I know it has things 698 00:35:10,084 --> 00:35:12,924 Speaker 2: in it that is good. There is a link in 699 00:35:12,964 --> 00:35:15,084 Speaker 2: the show notes. It's I do not cook. There are 700 00:35:15,044 --> 00:35:16,764 Speaker 2: about two things I can cook and this is one 701 00:35:16,805 --> 00:35:19,725 Speaker 2: of them. And it has saved my life over the 702 00:35:19,805 --> 00:35:20,325 Speaker 2: last years. 703 00:35:20,404 --> 00:35:22,164 Speaker 1: And do you know what else is greed about it? 704 00:35:22,165 --> 00:35:24,005 Speaker 1: It matches your preferred color scheme. 705 00:35:24,245 --> 00:35:26,884 Speaker 2: It does because it's smushed into the lounge. It doesn't 706 00:35:26,924 --> 00:35:28,005 Speaker 2: matter beije lounge brilliant. 707 00:35:28,044 --> 00:35:28,645 Speaker 1: It's fine. 708 00:35:29,004 --> 00:35:31,364 Speaker 2: That is all we have time for on Parenting Out 709 00:35:31,404 --> 00:35:34,525 Speaker 2: Loud today, but we will be back next Saturday morning. 710 00:35:34,685 --> 00:35:38,484 Speaker 2: See you then, Bye bye.