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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hi.

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Speaker 3: I'm Grace Rufrey filling in for Clam Murphy. This is

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Speaker 3: Muma MIA's twice daily news podcast, The Quikie. Menopause and

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Speaker 3: peri Menopause is something every cisgendered woman will go through,

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Speaker 3: yet its symptoms and treatments have long been misunderstood, under researched,

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Speaker 3: and often ignored. This week, the Senate Community Affairs Committee

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Speaker 3: has released a groundbreaking report on menopause and perry menopause

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Speaker 3: in Australia, making twenty five key recommendations to address the

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Speaker 3: lack of support, awareness and care for women going through

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Speaker 3: this life stage. Today on the Quickie, we're talking to

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Speaker 3: Senator Marl Smith, one of the co sponsors of the inquiry,

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Speaker 3: to hear what exactly these recommendations are and what it

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Speaker 3: means for workplaces and healthcare across the country. But before

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Speaker 3: we do that, here's the latest from the Quickie newsroom. Friday,

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Speaker 3: September twentyeh a scientific director for the company that owned

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Speaker 3: the Titan submersible that imploded last year while on its

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Speaker 3: way to the Titanic wreckage has testified that the sub

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Speaker 3: malfunction just prior to the fatal dive. Appearing before a

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Speaker 3: US Coast Guard panel, Stephen Ross told the board about

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Speaker 3: a platform issue the experimental submersible experienced in June twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty three, just days before it exploded on its way

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Speaker 3: to the Titanic site. The malfunction caused passengers on board

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Speaker 3: the submersible to tumble about and it took an hour

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Speaker 3: to get them out of the water, with submersible pilot

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Speaker 3: Oceangate co founder Stockton Rush crashing into a bulkhead during

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Speaker 3: the malfunction. A panel had previously listened to two days

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Speaker 3: of testimony that raised questions about the company's operations before

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Speaker 3: the doomed mission. Victorians are facing worsening housing pressure a

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Speaker 3: year after the state government's pledged to tackle the crisis.

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Speaker 3: A housing and security index from the Council to Homeless

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Speaker 3: Persons reveals spiking rents, ballooning public housing waitlists, and strained

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Speaker 3: homeless services. Rents have risen over thirteen percent, with Melbourne's

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Speaker 3: medium rent now at five hundred and sixty per week,

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Speaker 3: while public housing weight lists are so long they could

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Speaker 3: fill a sold out stadium. Tenants are struggling to avoid

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Speaker 3: housing and basic household items, forcing many into smaller or

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Speaker 3: unsuitable homes. Ukrainian President Vladimir Selensky says that Ukrainian forces

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Speaker 3: have weakened Russian troops ability to attack and forced Russia

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Speaker 3: to divert forty thousand troops to its southern Kersk region.

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Speaker 3: He also reported one death in a Russian attack on

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Speaker 3: an elderly home in Ukraine's northern Sumi region. Zelensky will

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Speaker 3: meet with President Biden and Vice President Harris next week

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Speaker 3: to request permission to use foreign supplied weapons for deeper

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Speaker 3: strikes into Russia. US officials have said that they're seeking

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Speaker 3: further clarity on Ukraine's combat objectives before providing weapons. Kylie

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Speaker 3: Minogue has announced a world tour for twenty twenty five

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Speaker 3: that Padampadams singer also announced a sequel to her twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty three album Tension, which in includes nine new tracks,

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Speaker 3: which will be released on October eighteenth. Minogue's Tension tour

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Speaker 3: will kickstart in her home country of Australia on February fifteenth,

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Speaker 3: visiting Perth as well as Adelaide. Melwyn Brisbane and Sydney

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Speaker 3: before heading to Asia and then reaching the United Kingdom

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Speaker 3: on May sixteenth. This year, Minogue has taken home the

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Speaker 3: Global Icon Award at the Britz and won the Best

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Speaker 3: Pop Dance Record Grammy for the smash Here padumpadum. That's

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Speaker 3: your latest news headlines coming up. What did the Australian

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Speaker 3: government learn about menopause and how are they going to

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Speaker 3: help people struggling with this stage of life. Menopause is

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Speaker 3: not an illness and neither is it a medical condition.

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Speaker 3: It is a normal component of the female life cycle. However,

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Speaker 3: it is a women's health issue with social and economic consequences.

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Speaker 3: That's just page one of the one hundred and thirty

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Speaker 3: three page Issues related to Menopause and Perimenopause Report. It

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Speaker 3: sets the tone for how long overdue this inquiry and

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Speaker 3: misunderstood this stage of life is a stage of life

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Speaker 3: that essentially half the population will go through for decades.

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Speaker 3: Women experiencing menopause and perimenopause have been dismissed, misdiagnosed, left

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Speaker 3: to wade through the shopping list of symptoms completely on

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Speaker 3: their own. And here are just a few of those symptoms.

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Speaker 3: Hot flushes, night sweats, disturbed sleep, tiredness, headaches, saw muscles, dryness,

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Speaker 3: saw bread, anxiety, brain fog, and depression doesn't sound very fun.

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Speaker 3: One person who was misdiagnosed when they first started experiencing

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Speaker 3: perimenopause was our very own host of the Quickie, Claire Murphy.

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Speaker 2: So last year I went to my GP because a

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Speaker 2: stack of symptoms hit me simultaneously, so my hair started

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Speaker 2: to fall out, my skin dried up to the point

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Speaker 2: where I couldn't touch parts of me because it was

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Speaker 2: so sensitive, had these weird thunderclap headaches. I wasn't sleeping

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Speaker 2: very well. I was having night sweats, joint pain, and

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Speaker 2: then I said to get pre menstrual anxiety. So I

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Speaker 2: could barely catch my breath in the week leading up

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Speaker 2: to my period. So I went to my GP and

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Speaker 2: I said, could I be perimenopausal? And he goes, he's

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Speaker 2: still getting your period regularly and I said yes, and

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Speaker 2: he goes, well, you're not menopausal then, and I said, no,

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Speaker 2: I know I'm not in menopause, but could I be perimenopausal?

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Speaker 2: And he kept just telling me you're not in menopause?

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Speaker 2: And I said to him, with all due respect, do

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Speaker 2: you know what perimenopause is and he goes, yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: the month or two before you hit menopause, and I

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Speaker 2: had to explain to him that no, it can be

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Speaker 2: for a decade and it's definitely hitting women in their

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Speaker 2: mid forties and sometimes even younger than that, and he

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Speaker 2: kind of just deflected and said, oh, look, here's appeal

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Speaker 2: for the night sweats. We'll send you to get your

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Speaker 2: hormones tested and kind of sent me on my way,

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Speaker 2: and I was really dejected by that. I went back

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Speaker 2: to him. He eventually gave me a referral to a

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Speaker 2: gynocologist which had a really long wait list. And so

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Speaker 2: eventually when the brain fog really kicked in, and I

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Speaker 2: got really concerned about myself because you do worry like

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Speaker 2: is this the first signs of early onset dementia. You

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Speaker 2: start to disconnect from people because I'm so worried I'm

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Speaker 2: going to start a sentence and lose my way and

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Speaker 2: not be able to finish it. And I can't really

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Speaker 2: do my job as well because it requires me to

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Speaker 2: be focused. So I reached out to the Australian Menopause

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Speaker 2: Center and the doctor was like, Babe, you need HRT

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Speaker 2: and you need it like stat and they sent it

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Speaker 2: to me in the mail and I could not have

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Speaker 2: been more relieved. I nearly cried nearly a fortnight later.

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Speaker 2: I feel so much better. The brain fog was the

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Speaker 2: first to clear, and it was like I refound myself,

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Speaker 2: like the person was kind of stuck in there in

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Speaker 2: a bit of a cloud, and I came out the

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Speaker 2: other side and I was like, holy shit, this is.

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Speaker 1: What I needed all along.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just bloody needed hormones.

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Speaker 1: You just needed to help me.

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Speaker 3: And sadly, Claire story isn't unique. We asked you our

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Speaker 3: mammamea audience for your experience dealing with menopause or perimenopause,

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Speaker 3: and this is what you said.

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Speaker 4: Menopause sucks. I've gone from full long, luscious slocks to fine,

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Speaker 4: thinning hair with breakage.

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Speaker 3: The night sweats, Oh my god, the night sweats.

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Speaker 4: I'm that woman who chooses to ignore the signs of perimenopause.

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Speaker 4: If I don't it address it, maybe I'll slip past unscathed.

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Speaker 4: Apparently not. I'm fifty three post hysterectomy for heavy periods

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Speaker 4: for twelve months, kept my ovaries now, my joints ache,

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Speaker 4: weight gains skin and hair are dry aging.

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Speaker 5: All I seem to be seen at the moment is

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Speaker 5: stories about menopause and about getting employers to recognize the

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Speaker 5: stage of life. I just don't want this to be

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Speaker 5: another thing that puts me in a disadvantage.

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Speaker 3: Experts have also found a long history of medical gender bias,

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Speaker 3: where women's pain has been viewed as hysterical or psychological

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Speaker 3: rather than physical. Women more likely to be prescribed antidepressants

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Speaker 3: for pain while men receive actual pain medication. It was

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Speaker 3: these findings that led the Victorian government to launch an

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Speaker 3: inquiry into women's pain just last month. Premier just Into

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Speaker 3: Allen wanted to improve care for women across Australia.

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Speaker 6: We called the inquiry in the first place because we

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Speaker 6: identified it was a problem, and that's the first step

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Speaker 6: on fixing a problem is recognizing it, understanding it and

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Speaker 6: then having a process that gives women the opportunity to

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Speaker 6: share their lived experience well.

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Speaker 3: Menopause and perimenopause are often framed around pain symptoms and

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Speaker 3: the physical toll withinn a gender biased healthcare system. The

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Speaker 3: growing research has uncovered a significant financial burden that follows

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Speaker 3: women into retirement.

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Speaker 7: The Australian Institute of Superannuation Trustees estimates that if even

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Speaker 7: just ten percent of women retired early because of menopausal symptoms,

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Speaker 7: it would equate to a loss of earnings and super

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Speaker 7: of more than seventeen billion dollars each year, and that

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Speaker 7: contributes to the twenty two point eight percent gender pay gap.

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Speaker 7: Being forced to retire early exacerbates both that pay gap

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Speaker 7: and the superannuation retirement gap.

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Speaker 3: On Wednesday, the eighteenth of September, the Community Affairs References

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Speaker 3: Committee released its report Issues Related to Menopause and Perimenopause.

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Speaker 3: The reports highlight the key challenges faced by women, from

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Speaker 3: being ignored by doctors, to the lack of workplace support,

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Speaker 3: and even economic consequences like reduced workforce participation and retirement challenges.

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Speaker 3: The inquiry collected two hundred and eighty four submissions and

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Speaker 3: heard from women across the country, and now with the

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Speaker 3: final report tabled, twenty five recommendations have emerged. So what

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Speaker 3: did we learn from this report and more importantly, can

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Speaker 3: these twenty five recommendations be implemented? Senator Marriel Smith is

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Speaker 3: the deputy chair of the Committee and co sponsor of

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Speaker 3: the Senate Inquiry into Menopause and Perimenopause Marielle, yourself and

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Speaker 3: Senator Larissa Orders are co sponsors of this inquiry. Why

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Speaker 3: was it so important to you both to shine a

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Speaker 3: light on the impacts of menopause and perimenopause now? And

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Speaker 3: why now?

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Speaker 1: Because women have been telling us that when it comes

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Speaker 1: to their experiences of menopause and perimenopause, they haven't felt heard,

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Speaker 1: They've felt like these shoes are stigmatized, and whether it

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Speaker 1: comes to their health care or their workplaces, they just

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Speaker 1: don't feel like they're getting the support they need.

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Speaker 3: And there were two hundred and eighty four written submissions

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Speaker 3: and hearings across all of Australia. What were some of

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Speaker 3: the surprising or impactful store worries of themes that came through?

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Speaker 1: Over and over, women told us when they sought support

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Speaker 1: for menopause from their GP or from others, they felt

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Speaker 1: like they weren't listened to. Sometimes they felt like their

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Speaker 1: pain was dismissed and their experiences weren't taken seriously, and

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Speaker 1: that's devastating for women. You know, if you're going through

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Speaker 1: troubling symptoms and you don't know what they are, you

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Speaker 1: need support and you need good quality, up to date care.

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Speaker 1: We also heard from women who told us that their

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Speaker 1: symptoms affected them at work, but they felt that the

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Speaker 1: stigma around menopause meant they couldn't talk to their bosses

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Speaker 1: about the changes they might need to stay at work.

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Speaker 1: Of course, menopause doesn't affect every woman in the same way.

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Speaker 1: So many women will go through this stage of life.

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Speaker 1: Their work won't be interrupted, their health will be fine.

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Speaker 1: But for those women with troubling symptoms, getting supports really important.

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Speaker 3: The first page of the report after the recommendations has

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Speaker 3: one of the best definitions of menopause they don't have

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Speaker 3: ever seen, which is that it stresses. It's not an illness,

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Speaker 3: it is a part of life, and it has social

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Speaker 3: economic consequences. How does this shift in framing what menopause

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Speaker 3: is help to address the stigma or the misconceptions around menopause.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean to be clear grace, menopause isn't an

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Speaker 1: optional part of aging. It will happen to every single

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Speaker 1: woman at some point in her life. But it sort

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Speaker 1: of feels like when it comes to women's health, we're

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Speaker 1: taught about puberty and what that will mean, where told

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Speaker 1: childbirth will be painful, and then it just drops off

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Speaker 1: like nothing of consequence in a woman's life happens after childbirth,

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Speaker 1: and it's just nonsense. We need to be talking about

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Speaker 1: the whole breadth of a woman's health journey, talking about

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Speaker 1: what menopause and perimenopause can look like for women, and

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Speaker 1: that conversation needs to happen by senators like myself. It

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Speaker 1: needs to happen in workplaces, needs to happen in schools

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Speaker 1: and in our community too. Let's rid this stigma away

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Speaker 1: because it will happen to every woman.

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Speaker 3: Could you discuss the recommendations that you're hoping to amend

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Speaker 3: to the Fair Work Act.

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Speaker 1: What we'd really like to see is for women to

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Speaker 1: have an ability to request some greater flexiblit. In some workplaces,

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Speaker 1: that's already happening. We've got great workplaces around the country

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Speaker 1: talking to their employees and establishing policies to support them

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Speaker 1: if they need it during currentmenopause and menopause. But where

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Speaker 1: that's not happening, there might be some things the government

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Speaker 1: can do to push it along, like a right to

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Speaker 1: request flexibility, and also when its modeling behavior as a

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Speaker 1: big employer too. I think it's really important as well

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Speaker 1: that when we're talking about menopause. There are some changes

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Speaker 1: in workplaces which can be really important and powerful, but

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Speaker 1: they are relevant to officers and not every woman in

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Speaker 1: Australia works in an office. And that's where this question

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Speaker 1: of leave really comes into it, right across the breakthrom

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Speaker 1: sexual and reproductive health leave, because if you're working on

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Speaker 1: a factory floor, in an early learning center at a supermarket,

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Speaker 1: a desk fan isn't going to be an option for you.

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Speaker 1: Abrievable uniform might not be the answer. There are some

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Speaker 1: more complex questions. The more we can have this conversation

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Speaker 1: between employers and employees about what works in their workplace,

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Speaker 1: the better off will be.

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Speaker 3: You do talk about having a NUSH awareness campaign for

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Speaker 3: menopause and perimenopause. What does that look like?

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Speaker 1: Well, so many women told us that when they got

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Speaker 1: to perimenopause or menopause, so many things were a surprise

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Speaker 1: and they were a surprise to their GPS too. We

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Speaker 1: think we need to be having a bigger national conversation.

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Speaker 1: Larissa and I try to use the great big spotlight

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Speaker 1: we have access to through a Center Inquiry to shine

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Speaker 1: a light on these issues and have a national conversation.

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Speaker 1: But we want that conversation to continue through national awareness,

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Speaker 1: but also in individual workplaces. Talking to your family members,

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Speaker 1: talk to your mum, talk to your sister, talk to

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Speaker 1: your wife. Let's talk about these issues. Pull that stigma

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Speaker 1: away so the women who do feel let down at

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Speaker 1: the moment get the help and care they need.

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Speaker 3: One of the key recommendations calls for more research into

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Speaker 3: menopause impacts for culturally and linguistically diverse women, for LGBTQI

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Speaker 3: plus individuals, and those with disabilities. Why is this inclusive

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Speaker 3: approach so important and what insights are you hoping to

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Speaker 3: get from this research?

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Speaker 1: Right across the spectrum of menopause impacts, there's just a

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Speaker 1: complete lack of good quality research. And when you don't

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Speaker 1: have good quality research, it's really hard for government to

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Speaker 1: come up with good quality policy solutions. We don't know

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Speaker 1: enough about the health impacts, and we don't know enough

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Speaker 1: about the economic impacts. Particular groups who might face additional

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Speaker 1: vulnerabilities or certain challenges and access barriers will experience these

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Speaker 1: issues often in a worse way or a more complex way.

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Speaker 1: And I think when we expand that broader research, we

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Speaker 1: need to be giving consideration, for instance, to the challenges

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Speaker 1: a woman who doesn't speak English as a first language

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Speaker 1: might have when she goes and seeks help from her GP.

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Speaker 1: There are all sorts of ways that menopause and perimenopause

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Speaker 1: can affect different women. Let's make sure that research is

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Speaker 1: broad enough to help all women who need it.

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Speaker 3: When we put the question out to our muma mea

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Speaker 3: audience about what is your experience with menopause and perimenopause,

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Speaker 3: it seems like the gap was perimenopause, that those symptoms

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Speaker 3: are often overlooked or you can only sort of talk

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Speaker 3: about it once it gets to menopause. Are there distinctions

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Speaker 3: that you're hoping to do with this research and the

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Speaker 3: recommendations that brings perimenopause more into the conversation.

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Speaker 1: What was really clear is that women experience symptoms before menopause,

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Speaker 1: and that's where this term perimenopause comes in. There was

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Speaker 1: a bit of a debate about the use of that term,

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Speaker 1: but that's how women commonly talk about it, and that's

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Speaker 1: what we've used in the report. GPS themselves told us

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Speaker 1: that when they graduated from university, they didn't feel like

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Speaker 1: they got enough education in menopause. It is not an

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Speaker 1: optional part of aging. It will happen to every woman.

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Speaker 1: It shouldn't be an optional part of primary care either.

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Speaker 1: It's really important that GPS can access good quality professional

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Speaker 1: development and training and that when we've got medical graduates

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Speaker 1: going through university, they're learning about menopause and the impact

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Speaker 1: will have on half their patients lives.

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Speaker 3: I want to get into the economic impacts because this

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Speaker 3: is a huge part of it that's been uncovered. Reduced

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Speaker 3: workforce participation, the retirement plan, all of this stuff was highlighted.

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Speaker 3: How do you think the recommended study on menopauses economic

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Speaker 3: impacts are going to shape future policy and will it

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Speaker 3: support women in the workplace.

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Speaker 1: Well, first of all, we need really good research on

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Speaker 1: what's happening to women, because there is some good research,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of it is anecdotal, and we took

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Speaker 1: anecdotal research as well through our inquiry. What we heard

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Speaker 1: from women is that for many, many women, there's no

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Speaker 1: impact on their work, you know, women at the peak

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Speaker 1: of their careers. And I certainly don't want to contribute

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Speaker 1: to an idea that all women can't function at work

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Speaker 1: at this time of life. That's nonsense. But there are

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Speaker 1: some women who have really troubling symptoms where all changes

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Speaker 1: small adjustments can make an impact. We don't want those

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Speaker 1: women leaving the workplace. We don't want them turning down

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Speaker 1: a promotion or an opportunity for a symptom which could

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Speaker 1: get some relief through a desk fan or a slightly

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Speaker 1: late start time. That's absurd for employers, it's not good

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Speaker 1: for our economy and it really is letting women down.

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Speaker 1: So it comes to these economic impacts, I'd really like

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Speaker 1: to see some quantify viable data on them to help

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Speaker 1: inform the discussion around workplace policies. But we've also asked

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Speaker 1: for a collection of the data from workplaces across Australia

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Speaker 1: in terms of what they already have for menopause policies

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Speaker 1: or reproductive and sexual health policies, because some businesses are

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Speaker 1: doing good things already, we just don't have a good

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Speaker 1: collection of what those things are.

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Speaker 3: When you talk about resource shortages in the report as well,

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Speaker 3: why are there such resource shortages of things like HIT

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Speaker 3: and also treatments not being affordable? Why is this the

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Speaker 3: case in the first place, and what are you hoping

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Speaker 3: to change about that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the shortage issue was raised with us throughout the

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Speaker 1: inquiry and to be clear these are global challenges affecting countries.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's probably a bigger question around

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Speaker 1: what we make in Australia, but that's probably outside the

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Speaker 1: scope of our inquiry. We've made some recommendations to the TGA,

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Speaker 1: who are already doing work on these supply challenges. A

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Speaker 1: number of them have been resolved, but some remain, but

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Speaker 1: also ask them to look at the way they assess

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Speaker 1: the availability and access to these medicines and different types

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Speaker 1: of therapies. Again, this also links with GP care because

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Speaker 1: not all treatments will be suitable for all women. I'm

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Speaker 1: certainly not a doctor, but we need to make sure

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Speaker 1: when a woman goes in to see her doctor, they're

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Speaker 1: equipped with recent professional development, well informed about the current

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Speaker 1: treatments which might be available and what might work for women.

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Speaker 1: But most importantly that when women share their symptoms they

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Speaker 1: feel listened to and believed.

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Speaker 3: Finally, now that we have all this information and we

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Speaker 3: have the report, what's next, What are the next stages

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Speaker 3: of this and when can we start to see this

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Speaker 3: being implemented across Australia.

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Speaker 1: I've just passed this report to the government Minister responsible

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Speaker 1: and so in terms of the recommendations which we're asking

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Speaker 1: government to address. They've got a few months to look

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Speaker 1: at those and come back to us with a response.

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Speaker 1: We've also made recommendations though to businesses around Australia and

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Speaker 1: to the medical profession too. I really hope that those

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Speaker 1: are listened to, that we have a good quality reflection

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Speaker 1: on the care that women are receiving. And again, if

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Speaker 1: we're going to change things to see if we're going

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Speaker 1: to pull that stigma away. Government can't do that on

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Speaker 1: its own. We need to all be having these conversations,

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Speaker 1: talking openly and honestly about women's health experiences, not in

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Speaker 1: a way which reinforces stigma, but in a way that

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Speaker 1: breaks it down.

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Speaker 3: If you'd like to hear more on what the government

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Speaker 3: is trying to do for women's health, you can listen

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Speaker 3: to Clam Murphy's conversation on the gender pain gap with

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Speaker 3: Victorian Premier Justinto Allan. There's a link to that in

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Speaker 3: the show notes. Thanks for taking the time to feed

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Speaker 3: your mind with us today. This episode of the Quikie

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Speaker 3: is produced by me Grace Rufrey and our senior producer

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Speaker 3: Taylor Strano, with audio production by Lou Hill and Just

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Speaker 3: Quickly before we Go. If you're looking for more from

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Speaker 3: Mamma Mia, maybe a moment out of the news cycle.

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Speaker 3: Our daily beauty podcast You Beauty, has that a ripper

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Speaker 3: week of episodes. Yesterday they peeked into the makeup bag

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Speaker 3: of Sarah Marie Fad, who, before she became a fan

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Speaker 3: favorite on goggle Box, was one of Australia's leading makeup

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Speaker 3: artists for almost two decades. If you feel like a

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Speaker 3: change of PAGs, there's a link to listen to that

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Speaker 3: episode in the show notes