Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3: Welcome to Mamma Mia out Loud, where women come for
Speaker 3: a debrief.
Speaker 2: I'm Holly Wainwright.
Speaker 1: I'm mea Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 3: And here's what made our agenda for today, Friday, the
Speaker 3: twentieth of June.
Speaker 2: Why Sarah Jessica.
Speaker 3: Parker might be one of the few women alive who
Speaker 3: has never watched Carrie Bradshaw have sex, get dressed, or
Speaker 3: type charmingly on a laptop.
Speaker 1: Plus, everyone wants to text less, but nobody wants to
Speaker 1: be left on red And is anyone else exhausted by
Speaker 1: having to be always on? Not just at work but
Speaker 1: with friends and family.
Speaker 4: And we've got some recommendations for you. We are all
Speaker 4: bringing you something to watch this weekend, and we have
Speaker 4: some news. We do great there.
Speaker 1: But first I have a question. Did everyone else know
Speaker 1: that Bluey is a girl?
Speaker 5: Yes? No?
Speaker 4: Yes? What did you think Bluey was a boy?
Speaker 2: I don't watch blue my children too well?
Speaker 4: What did you think blue was a boy?
Speaker 2: I think I did?
Speaker 1: Yes, because blue is a boy's color.
Speaker 4: No, Blue is a girl and has a sister named Bingo.
Speaker 1: My mind is blown. So I kind of thought that
Speaker 1: Bingo was a girl, but I assumed that Bluie was
Speaker 1: a boy, and I learnt it because I also am
Speaker 1: out of the loop of children's programs. But now spending
Speaker 1: more time with my granddaughter, I've very much entered the.
Speaker 2: World of Blue.
Speaker 3: Everybody says it's the best kids TV show I've ever made,
Speaker 3: and it's so successful all over the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm back in the Wiggles. Goodness, there've been some
Speaker 1: changes there. There's a lot of them now. Yeah, they've
Speaker 1: all got different names. And Jeff isn't around, must have
Speaker 1: gone sleep permanently.
Speaker 2: But Blue is a girl.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that.
Speaker 4: Okay, I have something I need to add because I
Speaker 4: was away with friends over the weekend and there were
Speaker 4: eight of us and two of us didn't know this.
Speaker 4: Did you guys know that oats and porridge were the
Speaker 4: same thing? Yes? Stop it?
Speaker 2: How did you not stop?
Speaker 4: I think that they were thought porridge was likes ludge.
Speaker 4: I thought porridge was like a mucky wet. I thought
Speaker 4: it was just it's.
Speaker 2: Made from oat.
Speaker 1: Where do you think it came from the ground.
Speaker 4: I thought that porridge was the thing you bought and
Speaker 4: oats is the thing you buy. Separate things.
Speaker 1: What did you think you did with oats?
Speaker 4: I thought you made oats.
Speaker 3: Can we revise? He is the smart one, you know
Speaker 3: how that's always nothing. Jesse is the smart one.
Speaker 2: Not today.
Speaker 4: My friend and I were just our minds were absolutely blown.
Speaker 1: Porridge and the same thing.
Speaker 2: Wow, I've been off the show for a couple of days.
Speaker 3: The thing I like the absolute best is that Miya
Speaker 3: thought that they shou rocky.
Speaker 1: Now I've forgotten which it is. Now I'm terrified and
Speaker 1: I'm just going to call him Rihanna's boyfriend my life.
Speaker 3: Which is very out loud of us to just make
Speaker 3: him Rihanna's boyfriend. Anyway, if you had spent decades on
Speaker 3: one of the most iconic TV shows of all time,
Speaker 3: in glorious coture, full hair and makeup and getting to
Speaker 3: snog loads of handsome, craggy guys, wouldn't you want to
Speaker 3: watch yourself doing it?
Speaker 2: No? I would.
Speaker 3: Apparently if you're SJP you definitely wouldn't. And unless you're
Speaker 3: trapped under something heavy, you probably know that she's currently
Speaker 3: starring and executive producer, ing sho we make that a
Speaker 3: thing absolutely, and just like that the Sex and the
Speaker 3: City spin off. People have a lot of opinions about
Speaker 3: that show. They particularly had a lot of opinions about
Speaker 3: something that happened quite early on in this season with
Speaker 3: John Corbet, who plays Aiden in his pickup truck. We
Speaker 3: may have talked about it. Here's Howard Stern asking SJP
Speaker 3: what she thought about that moment that revealed the truth
Speaker 3: that she doesn't watch it.
Speaker 6: It's is such a weird moment where he's having phone
Speaker 6: sex with you and he's about to, you know, play
Speaker 6: with himself when he's talking to you, and he licks
Speaker 6: his hand and he takes his tongue and he starts
Speaker 6: licking his hand and then he plays with his penis.
Speaker 6: Do you know he did that in this thing? Because
Speaker 6: you probably filmed it, And have you seen this scene
Speaker 6: at all?
Speaker 5: No, I've not seen that.
Speaker 6: Is that really true? You really have not seen it?
Speaker 5: Seen it? No?
Speaker 1: I can't comment on that.
Speaker 5: My lawyer has advised me.
Speaker 6: Is that true?
Speaker 1: I have no attorney?
Speaker 6: No? No, But I mean, is it true that you're
Speaker 6: up to you really have no knowledge of it?
Speaker 5: Is I haven't seen most of Sex and the City ever,
Speaker 5: and I haven't seen and just like that. Every now
Speaker 5: and then Michael Patrick will say to me, please watch
Speaker 5: episode you know, so I don't know. This is the
Speaker 5: first I'm hearing about that.
Speaker 1: I found this just weird. I have to say on
Speaker 1: a few levels. First of all, as an executive producer
Speaker 1: on a show, you have to watch it a lot.
Speaker 1: I guess there are different versions of being an executive producer,
Speaker 1: but part of what you do is you make decisions
Speaker 1: early on about casting and about scripts, and then you
Speaker 1: watch the dailies and you watch the edits of the
Speaker 1: show and you give feedback. And she's been an executive
Speaker 1: producer of Sex and the City and now and.
Speaker 2: Just like that.
Speaker 1: So I guess what this is suggesting is that it's
Speaker 1: perhaps a vanity credit or that she inhabits. No, that's
Speaker 1: a really common thing. Sometimes it means that you get
Speaker 1: more money out of the back end, because you can
Speaker 1: charge a fee for being the star, and you charge
Speaker 1: a fee for being the executive producer. But interestingly, one
Speaker 1: of the reasons that Kim Ktrall, who played Samantha, gave
Speaker 1: for wanting to not come back is that she said, well,
Speaker 1: Sarah Jessica Parker was an executive producer. I feel like
Speaker 1: we all should have been, and just like that, Cynthia
Speaker 1: Nixon who plays Miranda, and christ And Davis who plays
Speaker 1: Charlotte both are executive producers.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's vanity though, because I think that
Speaker 3: Sarah Jessica Parker is interested in different things. So if
Speaker 3: you listen, for example, I remember there was a little
Speaker 3: doco about and just like that in the first season
Speaker 3: where they talked about how obsessive she was about Carrie's closet,
Speaker 3: Like I don't mean literally the clothes, but the way
Speaker 3: it would be organized, the apartments, the way this would
Speaker 3: be there and this would be there, and in a
Speaker 3: little code the set dresses made it sound like it
Speaker 3: was kind of a punish, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I think that there are things that Sarah Jessica Parker
Speaker 3: is incredibly detailed focused on, but the end result doesn't
Speaker 3: seem like it's that, do you understand it?
Speaker 4: I wonder if this is how you survive fifty years
Speaker 4: in the industry is by not watching it, And I
Speaker 4: reckon that a lot of actors when they sit down
Speaker 4: at a premiere or when their film is released or whatever.
Speaker 4: I don't reckon that they've watched it. I think that
Speaker 4: we hear a lot of creatives talk about the process
Speaker 4: and not necessarily being connected to the outcome. And I
Speaker 4: just reckon that she is very invested in story. She's
Speaker 4: a Booker Prize judge this year. I think she really
Speaker 4: cares about words. She's a lover of like literary fiction
Speaker 4: and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: She's got a book in print.
Speaker 3: She's got a book imprint which has many as one
Speaker 3: of her many things.
Speaker 4: Yes, So I.
Speaker 1: Love talking about books, and she is a big advocate
Speaker 1: for public libraries. And she talks about growing up. She's
Speaker 1: one of like eight or nine kids, and she was
Speaker 1: never allowed to leave the house, none of them unless
Speaker 1: they had a book with them.
Speaker 6: Oh.
Speaker 4: I love that. Can we please talk about the other
Speaker 4: tidbit that has come out of this press tour, which
Speaker 4: is that Sarah Jessica Parker alleges that she reads up
Speaker 4: to two books a day.
Speaker 2: Many books do you read a week or a month?
Speaker 7: Well, right now I'm judging the Booker. So I'm reading
Speaker 7: two books today. Sometimes it's an honor, it's a privilege.
Speaker 7: It's intense to be reading this the volume. Iss, it's
Speaker 7: kind of hard to convey what it's like to have
Speaker 7: as many books as we are given the opportunity to
Speaker 7: read a book. Yeah, it's quite something.
Speaker 4: What do we make of that?
Speaker 3: Well, I've listened to interviews with her before where she
Speaker 3: says that she reads constantly. She's not a social media person, right,
Speaker 3: we all know that she's not a phone person. She
Speaker 3: probably doesn't even have a phone. She's one of those
Speaker 3: I think and shed.
Speaker 1: It's like a giant Jane Nelson character. And she often
Speaker 1: talks a bit like that.
Speaker 2: She does.
Speaker 3: And she says that she reads in the makeup chair.
Speaker 3: Imagine how much time she spends in a makeup chair
Speaker 3: and has done for fifty years. She says that she
Speaker 3: reads on the subway, she reads all the time, she
Speaker 3: reads between takes. She sounds very much like that is
Speaker 3: her passion. And if you are a book of Prize Judge,
Speaker 3: I can't believe she's a Book of Prize Jge.
Speaker 2: That is such a flex go SJP.
Speaker 3: It's such a prestigious literary award in the world, and
Speaker 3: you have to read all the books.
Speaker 4: And makes will That's what she said is she's just
Speaker 4: come off obviously season three of and just like that,
Speaker 4: she's in a period of her career where then she
Speaker 4: has some downtime, so of course she has capacity. I'm like,
Speaker 4: that's the dream to read two books a day.
Speaker 1: But Holly's right, even when you're working as an actor,
Speaker 1: there is so much downtime. That's one of the reasons
Speaker 1: that I can't handle television. And I only went to
Speaker 1: the set one time. There is so much waiting, so
Speaker 1: much waiting. I was listening to the and just like
Speaker 1: that podcast with Michael Patrick King, who is the big
Speaker 1: boss of the show, and he was talking about this
Speaker 1: scene in episode I think it's either two or three
Speaker 1: with the rats I love them, And that was actually
Speaker 1: filmed on the sound stage and they had to keep
Speaker 1: gathering all the rats that I've assumed they were cgr rats.
Speaker 1: They had to gather all the rats and then release
Speaker 1: them again and again, and each time they were trying
Speaker 1: to do that, it took ages and it was two
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. You know, so, Carrie, Oh, sorry,
Speaker 1: Satan's ca Park. It does have a lot of time.
Speaker 3: The thing that's shocking to people about this, I think
Speaker 3: about the idea she doesn't watch it is because Jesse's right.
Speaker 3: Lots of actors say they don't watch their work. For
Speaker 3: a lot of them, it's part of their process, Like
Speaker 3: they're like, I do the work and then I have
Speaker 3: to disassociate, which seems very well adjusted, but also a
Speaker 3: tiny bit arrogant in a way, because you learn when
Speaker 3: you watch yourself back, right, But I guess if you've
Speaker 3: been doing it for fifty years, maybe you don't need to.
Speaker 3: But the thing that makes this so strange is Carrie
Speaker 3: Bradshaw is someone that we all know so well. I
Speaker 3: was thinking about it. I don't think there is a
Speaker 3: fictional character that I have probably spent more time with
Speaker 3: in my entire life than Carrie Bradshaw. And so to
Speaker 3: most of us, s JP is Carrie Bradshaw, and it's
Speaker 3: like she's someone that we all know really well. But
Speaker 3: it's like s JP's never met her, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, Like she doesn't view her the way we
Speaker 3: view her.
Speaker 1: Have you ever listened to Kristin Davis's podcast it's called
Speaker 1: It's Really Weird, and she's very elevated. But anyway, when
Speaker 1: she has s JP on, the whole episode is just
Speaker 1: her explaining to s JP what happened on the show.
Speaker 1: I'm serious, but I have a question for you both
Speaker 1: in terms of it's one thing not to watch you
Speaker 1: work back, and a lot of actors don't I get it.
Speaker 1: We should technically listen back to every episode of this show.
Speaker 1: I don't do.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 3: I go through phases where I do it is the
Speaker 3: way you learn, And then I go through phases where
Speaker 3: I'm like, I couldn't think of anything worse having to
Speaker 3: listen to me because I just go listen to them.
Speaker 3: Number of times I did that, listen to the way
Speaker 3: I said that highly critical And that's what I've heard
Speaker 3: as JP say is I would hate myself, and I've
Speaker 3: heard Reese Witherspoon say the same thing. I would go
Speaker 3: into a self hating spiral. All I can see is
Speaker 3: all the choices I didn't make, all the mistakes I made,
Speaker 3: And I get that, right, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Get that too.
Speaker 1: But my question is it's one thing not watching you
Speaker 1: work back, but as an executive producer and star of
Speaker 1: a show, when the whole cultural conversation in the reaction
Speaker 1: to your episode was about the lickic we spoke about it,
Speaker 1: and the week before it was about the funny puppet
Speaker 1: um habit she was wearing. Do you really think she
Speaker 1: doesn't know that? Do you really think she's not aware of.
Speaker 4: The crit conversation? She doesn't know it. And what we
Speaker 4: need to remember is that Sarah Jessica Parker is the
Speaker 4: antithesis of Carrie Bradshaw and for the twenty years of
Speaker 4: The Sex and the City Cannon she has sat down
Speaker 4: for interviews, even the Howard Sterne one was a perfect
Speaker 4: example to be asked questions that I believe make her uncomfortable.
Speaker 4: I don't think she likes talk about.
Speaker 1: Why did she go on Howard Sterne. I, Oh, she didn't.
Speaker 2: That's what she's done it for years.
Speaker 1: But that's what he does. Right as we know, promoting
Speaker 1: a piece of work, a movie album, a TV show
Speaker 1: is very different to what it used to be. You know,
Speaker 1: in the nineties and the early two thousands, you do
Speaker 1: a high profile interview with Vogue, Vanity Fair, you might
Speaker 1: do a cover, you might do a couple of newspaper interviews,
Speaker 1: a couple of TV interviews, one of those junkets. But
Speaker 1: now you've got to go on a chicken shop date
Speaker 1: with ameliads Moldenberg. You've got to eat hot wings for BuzzFeed.
Speaker 1: You've got to go and talk to Howard Stern about
Speaker 1: your sex life. You've got to sit down with call
Speaker 1: her daddy Alex Creeper and talk about your abortion.
Speaker 2: It's like, I don't think you have to if you're SJP.
Speaker 3: I was thinking about this because you're so right that
Speaker 3: whether or not the actor or the producer chooses to
Speaker 3: engage with the conversation. Think about White lotus right, they
Speaker 3: say that Mike White is really into that.
Speaker 2: He loves that.
Speaker 3: But also you can see some of the breakout stars
Speaker 3: of this recent series loved it, like Walton Goggins, Oh
Speaker 3: my God, Like he was the guy who played Rick.
Speaker 3: Now he's said, lean into that so Hardy popped up everywhere.
Speaker 3: Patrick Schwuerzner was everywhere. Patrick Schwarznegger was everywhere. They were
Speaker 3: leaning into it really hard. They were part of that conversation.
Speaker 3: And I think that an actor at the level of SJP,
Speaker 3: who lets be clear, we reference some of the businesses
Speaker 3: she has, it's not like she needs the money. I
Speaker 3: think she genuinely sees it as work and herself very separately,
Speaker 3: and she would be like, I will do four pieces
Speaker 3: of content.
Speaker 1: Well, you're contractually obliged to promote a show when you're
Speaker 1: the star, and the whole point of the show is
Speaker 1: very much around her, and it's sold around her. But
Speaker 1: I do feel it's a little bit disingenuous. Well maybe
Speaker 1: that's just her stick that her publicist didn't go, Hey,
Speaker 1: Howard Stone's probably gonna ask you about the handlicking scene.
Speaker 4: The more I learn about her, the more I love her.
Speaker 1: I think she's fascinating.
Speaker 4: I love her. I think she's the perfect celebrity. There
Speaker 4: was this great anecdote that she told about being in
Speaker 4: an airport. Robbie Williams recently talked about this, having people
Speaker 4: come up and wanting to get a photo, and because
Speaker 4: Sarah Jessica Parker has we believe, never owned a phone,
Speaker 4: she doesn't know what's happening, and she will turn to them.
Speaker 4: And she said, I turned to this woman in the
Speaker 4: airport and said, you have not even said hello to me.
Speaker 4: What I will give you is a conversation, and it
Speaker 4: will be a lot more meaningful than a selfie. I
Speaker 4: just kind of love her.
Speaker 1: She's like from another tongue. I am worried about her
Speaker 1: a little bit in the show. She looks pretty miserable.
Speaker 1: I mean, it would be right that her character would
Speaker 1: be depressed. She's a widow. I think, you know, Big
Speaker 1: didn't die that long ago.
Speaker 2: So funny, That's not how I'm reading it at all.
Speaker 3: I'm really enjoying watching her be sword of single again,
Speaker 3: Like I'm loving seeing her in that house. I'm loving
Speaker 3: seeing her evolve. I think I loved actually the episode
Speaker 3: where she went to Virginia and Aidan's family, because she's
Speaker 3: talked about this, and I think it's true. I know
Speaker 3: everyone hates Carrie, and I'm a vigorous carry apologist.
Speaker 1: Not everyone hates Carrie. She's very polarizing, polarized, but there
Speaker 1: are like entire websites about like why people should hate
Speaker 1: her so much. I actually really like Carrie, and I
Speaker 1: also think that she has changed, and she has you
Speaker 1: think she's I think she's changed, and I think she's going.
Speaker 1: Like what they're trying to show in this these are
Speaker 1: episodes is like her going to Virginia and understanding, actually
Speaker 1: understanding what it means that Aiden has a family rather
Speaker 1: than just the concept of it, you know, and kind
Speaker 1: of tasting.
Speaker 3: That and being like, do I want to be part
Speaker 3: of that? I love the handsome rider downstairs. I'm very
Speaker 3: into it.
Speaker 4: She made a point to about the Carrie hate and
Speaker 4: how there are television shows that have been made about
Speaker 4: mass murderers, you know, a male mass murderer who doesn't
Speaker 4: get half the hate that Carrie Bradshaw does, and how
Speaker 4: there is something deeply sexist about our reading of Carrie.
Speaker 4: And I think that that's very true.
Speaker 1: Is it sexist or is it that we you know,
Speaker 1: we talked on Monday Show about how when people find
Speaker 1: out who their trolls are, it's often someone who's essentially
Speaker 1: jealous of that.
Speaker 4: I don't think we know what to do with complicated I.
Speaker 1: Don't mean jealous necessarily of Carrie. But is it sexist
Speaker 1: or is it what Holly was saying in that we've
Speaker 1: spent so much time we identify with this character, you
Speaker 1: know that whole thing. Are you a Charlotte?
Speaker 2: Are you carry?
Speaker 1: And everyone wanted to be a Carrie that when they
Speaker 1: behave in ways that we don't like, we feel personally.
Speaker 4: Betrayed or do like breaking bad or something like. There
Speaker 4: are shows about complicated men and we follow them every
Speaker 4: step and go I still like him? Has he killed
Speaker 4: forty five people?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 4: Whereas Carrie makes a morally dubious decision and we go.
Speaker 4: I think that's some wrong with her.
Speaker 3: This is the thing about likable women, right, is that
Speaker 3: I like a lot of women, and some of my
Speaker 3: great friends, and I'm certain also me who are not perfect,
Speaker 3: and who makes selfish decisions sometimes and who sometimes are
Speaker 3: a bit annoying and sometimes are a bit self obsessed
Speaker 3: and sometimes go out with the wrong guy. Like, that's
Speaker 3: what we're actually like. And so I think that all
Speaker 3: the things you can throw at a carry that aren't real,
Speaker 3: you know, obviously obviously, the wardrobe, the money, all that stuff.
Speaker 3: Actually the fact that she's a bit annoying sometimes is
Speaker 3: the most real thing about her. She's also very funny.
Speaker 3: I love watching her. I think she gets the best lines.
Speaker 3: I like the lines on her face and on the edge.
Speaker 4: I'm a big fan.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the criticism when I feel frustrated with her,
Speaker 1: it's because she hasn't evolved, not because she has. Like
Speaker 1: the whole thing with the shoes just feels so one note,
Speaker 1: and the you know that whole storyline where it was
Speaker 1: the thumbs up emoji or the thumbs down, like it
Speaker 1: just seems very stuck in the nineties, both with her
Speaker 1: cultural references, you know, when she was like, oh little
Speaker 1: house on the carry instead of there's no trad wife reference.
Speaker 1: It's almost like she exists, not in this world.
Speaker 2: But I think she does. Carry.
Speaker 3: Isn't a TikTok person, Not every woman who certainly the
Speaker 3: age that she is as plugged into the zeitgeist as
Speaker 3: you are. I mean, as cool and relevant and youthful
Speaker 3: as you are, my friend.
Speaker 1: After the break, what is an acceptable amount of time
Speaker 1: to wait until you text someone back. There've been a
Speaker 1: few stories and newsletters and conversations in the zeitgeist over
Speaker 1: the last couple of months about the volume of texting
Speaker 1: that we are becoming accustomed to. The latest of these
Speaker 1: is an article that was written in New York Magazine
Speaker 1: by the author Catherine jess and Morton, who has little kids,
Speaker 1: and she was talking about the burden of texting for parents,
Speaker 1: and she talks about now, when you have a play date,
Speaker 1: the other parent expects constant updates via text, photos, videos
Speaker 1: of what's happening. And she says that she finds that
Speaker 1: like completely counterintuitive and like a real burden, because she said,
Speaker 1: the point of me having another kid over is so
Speaker 1: that my kid can play and I can get some
Speaker 1: other stuff done, and vice versa. For my kid's at
Speaker 1: someone else's house. I don't want to have to be
Speaker 1: responding to constant updates about how they're going.
Speaker 4: She called it maternal self soothing, which I thought was
Speaker 4: a really, really good phrase. It's almost pacifying for the
Speaker 4: person doing it to feel as though every time they
Speaker 4: have an anxious thought about their child or they worry,
Speaker 4: they almost want to perform the fact they're thinking about
Speaker 4: their child.
Speaker 2: Well, it was.
Speaker 1: Interesting because I had Luna for the weekend and you're away, Jesse,
Speaker 1: and when I have her, I do have that track
Speaker 1: going in my mind. I should capture this on video,
Speaker 1: I should capture this one.
Speaker 4: And I have a track going in my mind that
Speaker 4: if I haven't checked in a few hours. Do people
Speaker 4: think I'm not thinking about her?
Speaker 1: Yes? And I did think that. And I even said
Speaker 1: to Luca when I spoke to someone, like, what are
Speaker 1: you guys up to? You're not behaving in the normal way.
Speaker 1: You're not texting as often as you do, because usually
Speaker 1: when I've got her, it's like how is she? Especially
Speaker 1: from him? Actually, anyway, it just turned out that you
Speaker 1: were just having a brain time.
Speaker 3: So when you just said I did think that. I
Speaker 3: don't think that Jesse didn't care about her daughter anymore.
Speaker 1: No, I thought that they were to say kind of
Speaker 1: Shenanigan's weird sex weekend or something. I didn't know what
Speaker 1: was going on. And then also I'm like, well, why
Speaker 1: do I keep texting? Do I keep texting to show
Speaker 1: you how much fun she's having?
Speaker 2: Is that about me?
Speaker 1: Or is that about making you feel better? It's an
Speaker 1: interesting thing, But she says also, because when your kids
Speaker 1: are too young to have a phone, you choose not
Speaker 1: to give them a phone. All of this parent communication,
Speaker 1: the WhatsApp groups, the messages through playdates, the organizing of
Speaker 1: the social things falls disproportionately on the mother. So that's
Speaker 1: the parenting side of it. But then there's also the
Speaker 1: group texts. Caroline o'donahue wrote a piece in her newsletter
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago saying everyone wants to text less,
Speaker 1: but nobody wants to be left on red. What did
Speaker 1: you think of that?
Speaker 3: It's one hundred percent true. We all are obsessed with
Speaker 3: being off our phones more, but we all demand instant
Speaker 3: responses to anything that.
Speaker 2: We put out there.
Speaker 3: So what I loved, particularly about what Caroline o'donahue wrote,
Speaker 3: which I really related to, is that she basically was
Speaker 3: saying that she was a bad texter, and she sort
Speaker 3: of threw out a few reasons of why she was
Speaker 3: a bad texter, and then she wrote this, She said,
Speaker 3: The thing is, I don't really want to be better
Speaker 3: at it. I'm bad at texting. I don't want to
Speaker 3: be good at it. I hate my phone, and so
Speaker 3: do you. I feel vulgar and sick when I spend
Speaker 3: too much time on it, and a never to Texting
Speaker 3: takes time. But equally, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings,
Speaker 3: particularly the feelings of people I genuinely care about. It
Speaker 3: shouldn't be a problem, and yet it is. Everyone I
Speaker 3: know is trying to cut down on their screen time.
Speaker 3: No one wants to be left on read. When we're
Speaker 3: left on red, it feels very close to being thrown
Speaker 3: out of the nest. When we fail to text others back,
Speaker 3: we see it as morally neutral behavior, but when others
Speaker 3: do it to us, it creates sincere panic. And that
Speaker 3: is so true. How many times have you sent a
Speaker 3: text to somebody and they haven't responded. And then they
Speaker 3: haven't responded. Your mind goes to, she's mad with me?
Speaker 2: What have I done? Why haven't they responded? Was I rude?
Speaker 2: And you go back and you read the text. Was
Speaker 2: I rude? Did I phrase that wrongly? Should I? Blah
Speaker 2: blah blah.
Speaker 3: But when you don't reply to a text, you're like,
Speaker 3: that's fine, I don't need to reply to that.
Speaker 1: And then when someone texts you and says is everything okay?
Speaker 1: Or are you mad with me? It feels like, well,
Speaker 1: it's another bit.
Speaker 3: It's interesting because it brings up the question of which
Speaker 3: texts require a response and which ones don't.
Speaker 4: The point there, o'donna who makes is that we have
Speaker 4: now seen constant connection as a proxy for intimacy. So
Speaker 4: if it's not a constant boom boom boom boom boom
Speaker 4: bom boom, then we're not as close as we were.
Speaker 4: And sometimes with friendships they go through a really intense
Speaker 4: period and then you go, we haven't texted. I think
Speaker 4: this all the time. I think about someone and I go,
Speaker 4: I should text them, And it's like we can't have
Speaker 4: that feeling without doing it. Whereas it used to be
Speaker 4: that it was a phone caller. It was a letter
Speaker 4: which by.
Speaker 1: Are you'd organized to get together in Yes.
Speaker 4: But by that nature it wasn't always accessible and always possible.
Speaker 4: So she has this point about how just like in
Speaker 4: the nineteen fifties, when technology meant that vacuuming was easier,
Speaker 4: like you could finally vacuum rather than sweep, and you
Speaker 4: had a dishwasher, and you had all of these new
Speaker 4: things to make cleaning easier, and they were going to
Speaker 4: afford women more time. What happened was that our standards
Speaker 4: for cleaning just kept rising, and the same has happened
Speaker 4: with our standards for socializing. And it's interesting how disproportionately
Speaker 4: this has impacted women, because I don't know men who
Speaker 4: are having this same the mental load of all of this.
Speaker 4: We talked about this in our live show, that the
Speaker 4: mental load of the group chat is something that women
Speaker 4: are wearing in a way that men aren't. They don't
Speaker 4: have the same levels of guilt and responsibility to their friends,
Speaker 4: which I actually think there's something kind of admirable about that.
Speaker 3: It also must change the texture of our relationships.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember.
Speaker 3: There was a skit in a Chris Rock special once
Speaker 3: where he talked about how marriage is before constant texting
Speaker 3: and marriage is after a different thing and they should
Speaker 3: be classified in a different time frame because you used
Speaker 3: to leave the house in the morning, spend all day
Speaker 3: doing whatever you were doing, come back together in the
Speaker 3: evening and you hadn't had any contact all day. And
Speaker 3: you know, lots of people still like that, I guess,
Speaker 3: but most of us are very much like just checking
Speaker 3: in and could you do and house things and did
Speaker 3: you believe this happened? And that heightened number of interactions
Speaker 3: means there's less to discuss in real time. But also
Speaker 3: does it kind of make your relationship more or intense
Speaker 3: or do.
Speaker 4: You burn through relationships faster because you've reached the point
Speaker 4: of peak everything, like you've just known each other really,
Speaker 4: really well. And I think that group chats are a
Speaker 4: specific type of connection because they can just go all
Speaker 4: the time, like constantly, and there might be twenty people
Speaker 4: in them. But I don't necessarily think that people who
Speaker 4: are bad at texting. I never get the sense that
Speaker 4: I'm mad at them all. I think they don't like me.
Speaker 4: I think they have a different relationship with their phone.
Speaker 4: And I'm quite aware that my relationship with my phone
Speaker 4: is a problem i'd like to fix.
Speaker 1: I find group chats in a way easier. And I
Speaker 1: know that you know some people are in group chats,
Speaker 1: some people aren't. But what I've made peace with now
Speaker 1: is sometimes a group chat can be going on and
Speaker 1: you're not in it, and you're not involved, and it's okay.
Speaker 1: It's almost like social media, like when you pick up
Speaker 1: your phone to look at social media, you don't go
Speaker 1: back to the beginning of You just jump in the
Speaker 1: stream wherever you are, write it for a little while
Speaker 1: and then post.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 4: It's also that, and I think it was O'donahu who
Speaker 4: made this point. I mean, our work communications are in
Speaker 4: the same place that our social communications are, and every
Speaker 4: notification from a friend's message to an urgent work email
Speaker 4: is presented the same on a phone. So you get
Speaker 4: this spike of like must open now. And what I've
Speaker 4: tried to do is go do not open the message
Speaker 4: until you can answer it. So if that means that
Speaker 4: at nine pm you go, all right, I'm going to
Speaker 4: because then I enjoy it, like I sit down and
Speaker 4: I go, here's my time to go through this. And
Speaker 4: she speaks to about the experience and this is something
Speaker 4: new where you're waiting on a message from someone and
Speaker 4: then they post on social media and you're like, I
Speaker 4: know you have that phone in your hand, and I
Speaker 4: just want to know if we're hanging out on Wednesday.
Speaker 3: We're being spied on the way in that context, So
Speaker 3: on that and this idea that we all feel a
Speaker 3: little abandoned if we're left on red, what do you
Speaker 3: think that messages you do have to respond to? And
Speaker 3: how long is it okay to leave between Because this
Speaker 3: original story, she was saying, a lot of people start
Speaker 3: their text and I certainly do this sometimes with so
Speaker 3: I just saw this, and she says that she has
Speaker 3: a friend who she considers to have a very relaxed,
Speaker 3: cool relationship with texting who never apologizes. It's just like
Speaker 3: I got to it when I got to it. How
Speaker 3: do you feel if people don't reply to your messages?
Speaker 3: How long do you think it's okay?
Speaker 4: I assume that they've done the thing where they've opened it,
Speaker 4: they've gone, I'll get back to that. They've then had
Speaker 4: seven hundred and eighty other thoughts within two hours and
Speaker 4: they've totally forgotten and that's fine. And if it's urgent.
Speaker 4: I'll follow up, but I'm never ever getting my feelings
Speaker 4: hurt that I haven't got a response.
Speaker 2: What about Eamia.
Speaker 1: I've got so many going at once that I don't notice.
Speaker 4: To be honest, sometimes I feel I've been many to
Speaker 4: bring this up with your Maia. Sometimes you throw a
Speaker 4: link in our chat and I go, I'll read that,
Speaker 4: and then I don't get back to you, and I
Speaker 4: feel like you're sitting there going they didn't read my link.
Speaker 3: It's true because Mia throws great links like the quality
Speaker 3: is high. Yeah, I'm but it means probably at the
Speaker 3: time she said, I don't have ten minutes to sit
Speaker 3: and read that, so I'll be like, I'll get to
Speaker 3: that later, by which time Maya will have forgotten about it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I fear that I've hurt your feeling.
Speaker 1: So to be clear, because you're right, my love language
Speaker 1: is sending links of things that I think people will
Speaker 1: find interesting. I don't expect a response even necessarily. Ever,
Speaker 1: it's more here's a little thing. I have to send
Speaker 1: it now because I'm reading it now and I won't
Speaker 1: find it again. But here's a little thing I thought
Speaker 1: you might enjoy. Not let's discuss this together. Please read it.
Speaker 1: Unless it's like, oh my god, yeah, it's just happen immediately.
Speaker 1: Usually it's just I think you'll be interested in this.
Speaker 1: But there's no burden of response a question, you know,
Speaker 1: when messaging what's happened? Everyone introduced like the reactions. At first,
Speaker 1: I thought that was going to make things better because
Speaker 1: you could just do a little thumbs up to what
Speaker 1: someone said. But now it's almost like nothing ever ends
Speaker 1: because you do a thumbs up, and then someone does
Speaker 1: a thumbs up to your thumbs up, and then I know.
Speaker 3: And also you know, sometimes I've got a friend who
Speaker 3: I'll go so I'll meet you at seven and she'll
Speaker 3: love heart it, And I'm.
Speaker 2: Like, was that a yes? Or enough? Are we on
Speaker 2: at seven?
Speaker 4: I don't know, be clear. I just love how it
Speaker 4: was through it. Do not call me, stage text me,
Speaker 4: and now we've gone to it, do not text me.
Speaker 4: I don't want to reply. I also don't want to
Speaker 4: be emailed. I definitely don't want you at my door.
Speaker 4: I think that what we're saying is like go away.
Speaker 4: And this is what o'donna who said, is that I
Speaker 4: post on social to prove to myself that I exist question.
Speaker 6: Mind.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're also lonely, and.
Speaker 4: Yet there is a different thing. Often I'll see a
Speaker 4: text come through and I go, I don't have the
Speaker 4: social energy to construct a reply yet, and then I
Speaker 4: have to wait for that to kind of come back.
Speaker 4: It takes a different part of you to kind of
Speaker 4: give it justice.
Speaker 3: I think it's not don't call me, don't text me,
Speaker 3: don't anything me. It's I only want to communicate on
Speaker 3: my terms when I want to communicate. Anything else is
Speaker 3: an inconvenience, And it's to do with what we've discussed
Speaker 3: lots of times about. However, thing's on demand now, so
Speaker 3: we're like, I might have ten minutes to have a
Speaker 3: proper catch up with you, but you might not, And
Speaker 3: so now with voice notes, and then it's who's got
Speaker 3: time for that one? And baby, sometimes we should just
Speaker 3: bring back the phone call.
Speaker 4: Your favorite podcast is now a video but a vodcast
Speaker 4: the future or crap Telly. That's a headline from the
Speaker 4: Guardian last month, and it feels uncomfortably pointed. So if
Speaker 4: you're big into podcasting, you might have noticed that a
Speaker 4: lot of the blockbuster podcasts now if you're listening on Spotify,
Speaker 4: like a video of that will come up at the
Speaker 4: same time they're publishing full videos along with the audio.
Speaker 4: And in February of this year, YouTube announced that it
Speaker 4: had one billion users watching podcast content, meaning that it
Speaker 4: has become the market leader in podcasting. It's bigger and
Speaker 4: Apple bigger than Spotify. People are watching the podcasts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, slightly dubious numbers in terms of I think the
Speaker 1: way they measure a view of a podcast is like one.
Speaker 4: Second interesting, but still.
Speaker 1: I mean, you only just have to flick through your
Speaker 1: social media, and all of my social media now is
Speaker 1: pretty much just podcasts reels of podcasts.
Speaker 4: A lot of men I know are watching a Joe
Speaker 4: Rogan like that. Stuff is really big. Whether we like
Speaker 4: it or not, vodcasts are happening. They'll be coming to
Speaker 4: streaming services, and this shift is in large part than
Speaker 4: by gen z, who use YouTuber's background television in a
Speaker 4: way that isn't native to me. Some industry insiders reckon
Speaker 4: vodcasts are just crap telly, and there's resistance by many
Speaker 4: who don't want to consume another form of entertainment that
Speaker 4: has them gaping at a screen like they've loved how
Speaker 4: refreshing podcasts are. Because It frees them from a screen
Speaker 4: and they can go about their lives while listening.
Speaker 3: So most women are doing other things right now while
Speaker 3: they're listening to this. I can see you. You are
Speaker 3: washing up, you are going for a walk, you are
Speaker 3: pretending to a boring story, or child is telling you.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Others, however, like the idea of seeing hosts that
Speaker 4: they're familiar with and having them on in their house.
Speaker 4: We're getting a lot of questions about our pivot because
Speaker 4: we're in our new podcast era. We're in our vodcast era. Maya,
Speaker 4: are we trying to be shitty television? Is that the strat?
Speaker 4: Is that the strategy?
Speaker 1: Yeah, strat, that's definitely the strategy you mentioned, jen Z.
Speaker 1: But the thing that's really driving it all, of course
Speaker 1: is capitalism. Jesse, I can't believe goodness and the tech
Speaker 1: platforms because the thing that's so great about podcasts is
Speaker 1: that they're not algorithmic. At the moment, your podcast feed
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to it, say, Spotify and Apple are
Speaker 1: probably the two biggest platforms. Let's leave YouTube out of it.
Speaker 1: You will see in chronological order the shows that you
Speaker 1: follow and what they release.
Speaker 4: You can go and have a look at charts if
Speaker 4: you want to try to see what's trending.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's kept podcasts really beautiful and pure in
Speaker 1: a way because it means that it's not just the
Speaker 1: most extreme content that rises to the surface like it
Speaker 1: does whenever an algorithm's introduced. But the problem with that
Speaker 1: is that podcasts have always been hard to share and
Speaker 1: hard for people to discover new ones because an algorithm
Speaker 1: is not putting things into your feed that you think
Speaker 1: you might be interested in. Now, we're not unhappy about that,
Speaker 1: except for the part where it can be hard to
Speaker 1: grow and get a new audience. And so that's when
Speaker 1: you know, everything needs to be on social media. That's
Speaker 1: the main form of marketing and pr these days, and
Speaker 1: you need visuals to put on things like Instagram. And
Speaker 1: so that's when everybody had to record their podcasts. And
Speaker 1: then YouTube wanted a piece of the action, and instead
Speaker 1: of just little snippets, people were like, well, we're already
Speaker 1: brushing our hair and setting up cameras and editing it,
Speaker 1: and that's already a pain in the neck an extra
Speaker 1: at cost. We may as well do the whole thing
Speaker 1: and chuck it on yet another platform. So that's what
Speaker 1: we're all doing, and it's interesting because we have mixed
Speaker 1: feelings about it. You know, if we had our way
Speaker 1: purely from a podcasting point of view, we would prefer
Speaker 1: to just have no cameras be in a studio because
Speaker 1: it's more intimate. You're less conscious of how you look.
Speaker 3: One of the things we used to particularly like about
Speaker 3: pure audio is that it just is a fact that
Speaker 3: as soon as you can see someone talking, you're not
Speaker 3: just listening to them talking. You are reading a whole
Speaker 3: lot of cues from everything you can see from clearly
Speaker 3: what they look like, in terms of have they brushed
Speaker 3: their hair, have they done their makeup?
Speaker 2: What are they wearing? All the little clues, Oh, whats
Speaker 2: that necklace? Me has got on? Oh, someone says a
Speaker 2: bit tired today. Any TV presenter will.
Speaker 3: Tell you that they get more feedback about what they're
Speaker 3: wearing and how they've done their lipstick female TV presenters
Speaker 3: than anything they ever say or report. And so there's
Speaker 3: something wonderfully freeing about the idea that no people are
Speaker 3: just engaging with your voice and your thoughts and your ideas.
Speaker 2: Those days are gone.
Speaker 3: We are now out of hiding, and I think it's
Speaker 3: so fine like, I think it's absolutely fine, but it's
Speaker 3: definitely a different relationship.
Speaker 4: I reckon for women in particular, the pivot will be
Speaker 4: to having it on in the background. I've had a
Speaker 4: lot of women I know talk about having a podcast
Speaker 4: up on YouTube on their television while they go and
Speaker 4: do something else, and they're kind of listening, and they
Speaker 4: like the familiarity of a host who's voice. They recognize
Speaker 4: the idea that you would sit down as some sort
Speaker 4: of appointment viewing when that show comes out. I don't
Speaker 4: think is probably realistic, but I think it's coming really
Speaker 4: because we saw last week and talked about it on
Speaker 4: the show, the axing of Q and A and the Project,
Speaker 4: and the irony is that this is the bringback of
Speaker 4: the panel show, like we're essentially a panel show and
Speaker 4: haven't we seen that die? And there was a really
Speaker 4: interesting article by Walid Ali in The Age at the
Speaker 4: end of last week about how really this pivot has
Speaker 4: a lot more to do with revenue than format, and
Speaker 4: he was saying that on social media, on your TikTok, Instagram,
Speaker 4: YouTube ads are so targeted. They've harvested so much data
Speaker 4: about me that the ads, if I'm going to spend
Speaker 4: money on an ad for nappies, then I want to
Speaker 4: make sure I'm getting me who has kids in nappies.
Speaker 4: Why would I put that on primetime television where most
Speaker 4: of the people watching don't need nappies. And so that's
Speaker 4: why there's more money in the kind of very targeted
Speaker 4: social media world rather than social TV.
Speaker 1: Commercial TV is broadcasting, and podcasts and other forms of
Speaker 1: digital media tend to be narrow cast. So for example,
Speaker 1: we're a podcast for women, that wouldn't be our primetime show,
Speaker 1: and yet we are a daily show and we have
Speaker 1: a really big audience. The other thing to note is
Speaker 1: that it's all about choice. So we are now on YouTube.
Speaker 1: You can watch us on YouTube, but nothing's going to change.
Speaker 1: The podcast that you hear is going to be the same.
Speaker 1: We don't make different creative decisions about what's in the
Speaker 1: show because we're now had to build a studio and
Speaker 1: do all of these things. For creators, it's more expensive
Speaker 1: and it's harder, But for you, it's just about choice.
Speaker 3: And so if you listen to us on Spotify, if
Speaker 3: you listen to us on Apple, no difference at all.
Speaker 3: You will see some podcast videos on Spotify and sometimes
Speaker 3: I wonder, Oh, if I don't want to watch the
Speaker 3: video because I'm always doing something else, I'm not watching them,
Speaker 3: will it still use up my data? It won't if
Speaker 3: you've set your settings to not download video. So nothing
Speaker 3: changes unless you go and seek it out out loud.
Speaker 1: As friends come into your life for a reason, a
Speaker 1: season or a lifetime. So to podcast segments, don't worry.
Speaker 1: The show's not going to be over, but we are
Speaker 1: retiring a segment that we've done for a while that's
Speaker 1: pretty popular, Best and Worst.
Speaker 2: We are big the grounds.
Speaker 4: I know people pissed, pissed, or maybe maybe she is going, yes,
Speaker 4: you know what, shut the fuck up hearing about your life.
Speaker 1: We wanted to take you into the tent and explain
Speaker 1: to you why. And we tried once before to get
Speaker 1: rid of Best and Worse, and there was a big outcry,
Speaker 1: and so we brought it back. But we are actually
Speaker 1: getting rid of it this time, or retiring it, putting
Speaker 1: it on hiatus, and sending it out to pasta for
Speaker 1: the following reasons. The first is probably that, as you
Speaker 1: can understand, when you're talking about the worst thing that
Speaker 1: happened to you in a week, it's often something that
Speaker 1: might involve other people in your life. In fact, it
Speaker 1: usually almost always does all things that are private. It
Speaker 1: might be work related things, it might be health related things,
Speaker 1: it might be relationship things, it might be things about
Speaker 1: your kids or your parents. And for us, we have
Speaker 1: to protect the people in our lives. But then to
Speaker 1: say my worst of the week was that I got
Speaker 1: a parking ticket, or that I, you know, tripped over
Speaker 1: a coffee on my shirt, or my dogs had a fight,
Speaker 1: and that starts to not feel true to who we are.
Speaker 1: And then you know, it's not to say that we're
Speaker 1: not going to be still talking about our lives on
Speaker 1: the show. We will be, of course, but there's something
Speaker 1: about having to choose the best thing and the worst
Speaker 1: thing that makes it quite extreme. And I've always said also,
Speaker 1: it's better to share from a scar, not a wound.
Speaker 1: When it's something that's literally happening in the last few days,
Speaker 1: you often don't even know what to say about it.
Speaker 4: There's not a lot of wisdom to offer.
Speaker 3: No, here's the tell of when we knew it had
Speaker 3: to happen. Brent got a stick stuck in his had,
Speaker 3: and my first response was, at least I've got a
Speaker 3: worse this week.
Speaker 4: We've all had those moments, and it was also a
Speaker 4: low point where me or and I were jealous that
Speaker 4: you had such and we were sitting around waiting for
Speaker 4: a parking ticket or something so that we.
Speaker 2: Had something to show great worst.
Speaker 3: So sometimes it means that you're kind of curating and
Speaker 3: relating to your life through a slightly strange So I'm
Speaker 3: sure we're still going to talk about all kinds of stuff,
Speaker 3: all kinds of nonsense. We're still going to keep Fridays
Speaker 3: light and fun. Right, yep, exactly right, But no best
Speaker 3: and worse for now after the break, we have recommendations.
Speaker 2: We are still having recommendations.
Speaker 3: We are still telling you on Fridays in this particular
Speaker 3: week what to watch this weekend.
Speaker 4: What unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
Speaker 4: and Thursday exclusively from Mum and Maya. Subscribers follow the
Speaker 4: link in the show notes to get us in your
Speaker 4: ears five days a week. And a huge thank you
Speaker 4: to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 5: Vibes ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 4: This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 3: I feel like our recos this week because we've all
Speaker 3: chosen the TV show, and I think that they are
Speaker 3: very true to our personalities the TV shows we've chosen
Speaker 3: this week. When we were talking about in the meeting,
Speaker 3: I was like, that is the most Jesse recommendation of
Speaker 3: all time.
Speaker 4: And it's going to be everyone's favorite. Don't even matter.
Speaker 3: Go with your recommendation of the weeklyase out louders.
Speaker 4: I have been waiting for this documentary. It was coming
Speaker 4: on Netflix and it landed end of last week and
Speaker 4: it is called titan the Ocean Gates Submersible Disare. Oh okay,
Speaker 4: it is brilliant, so it's just come out. It is
Speaker 4: about the twenty twenty three deep sea dive in the
Speaker 4: submersible that ultimately imploded and killed lots of peace and
Speaker 4: it killed five people. But the reason this documentary is
Speaker 4: so brilliant is because it is about the hubris of
Speaker 4: the CEO, the guy who created it. He had a
Speaker 4: vision and saw himself as an Elon Musk, as a
Speaker 4: Jeff Bezos type.
Speaker 3: There was no way of.
Speaker 6: Knowing where title was going to fail, but it was a.
Speaker 3: Mathematical certainty that it would fail.
Speaker 1: Stockton saw an opportunity to restart tourist physics to.
Speaker 2: Titanic Stockton fully believed in what he was doing and
Speaker 2: that it would work. He wanted to fame to fuel
Speaker 2: his his ego theme, I have.
Speaker 3: No desire to die.
Speaker 5: I understand this.
Speaker 1: Kind of risk.
Speaker 6: I thought Stockton was a borderline psychopath. How do you
Speaker 6: manage a person like that who owns the company.
Speaker 4: It is the story of the descent of a lot
Speaker 4: of his employees who were raising the alarm and saying,
Speaker 4: I'm not comfortable with this. And what's fascinating is that
Speaker 4: he got in it against the advice of everyone. He
Speaker 4: would go down four thousand feet however deep. He wanted
Speaker 4: to test it, and they were like, don't put a
Speaker 4: human in it. Just send it down, but don't put
Speaker 4: someone in it. And he would do it because of
Speaker 4: his own ridiculous sort of ego, or also.
Speaker 1: That he just could not understand risk very well.
Speaker 4: And it did seem that way right And I won't
Speaker 4: give away too much.
Speaker 1: But we know how it ended well.
Speaker 4: One of the most fascinating details, though, is that this
Speaker 4: submersible was being made with carbon fiber, which had never
Speaker 4: been done before. And if you can make a submersible
Speaker 4: with a material that is cheaper and lighter, big deal. Right,
Speaker 4: but what was happening and you can hear it the
Speaker 4: amount of footage that they have. They always had go pros,
Speaker 4: they had a videographer with them.
Speaker 2: And there's all that in the documentary.
Speaker 4: You can see down there. You can see what the
Speaker 4: submersible looks.
Speaker 2: Like, the six of that in terms of the people
Speaker 2: who are down.
Speaker 4: So they don't have any footage from that one. They
Speaker 4: have footage from the other kind of dives that they did.
Speaker 4: But what you would hear is popping, really loud popping,
Speaker 4: and it was the sound of the carbon fiber breaking
Speaker 4: and everyone was going, you know, we know how this
Speaker 4: is going to end. And so when these former employees
Speaker 4: saw the story, they knew exactly what had happened. The
Speaker 4: narrative is great and it is just a really well done,
Speaker 4: well produced documentary. You have to watch it. It's on Netflix.
Speaker 2: Are you going to be watching that?
Speaker 1: No, I'm not going.
Speaker 4: To Maya, but different.
Speaker 2: It makes for different.
Speaker 4: It made me like you more. Can I tell you why?
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 2: Because I thought she wouldn't.
Speaker 4: Mayor has had some mad ideas, but none of them
Speaker 4: involve a submersible. No, don't get me wrong. If you
Speaker 4: made submersibles, I think you probably would make us get
Speaker 4: into one and go come on, guys.
Speaker 2: Great content, do it for the ground.
Speaker 4: And sometimes you make us do unusual things.
Speaker 2: I've had to do some TikTok dancing out. Wasn't that
Speaker 2: keen on exactly?
Speaker 4: Stakes are a bit lower exactly? And I went, you
Speaker 4: know what, I appreciate that. I turned to Luca Mayor,
Speaker 4: isn't that bad after all?
Speaker 1: So true? She may not understand risk, but she wouldn't
Speaker 1: put us in a submersible.
Speaker 2: Wasn't safe.
Speaker 1: I've got something very, very different to watch after that
Speaker 1: has sent you into a spiral of despair. No, I
Speaker 1: actually thought about watching that because it does look really,
Speaker 1: really interesting. I just am finding the news is so
Speaker 1: bleak at the moment. I just want to have a laugh.
Speaker 1: And I started watching a show that kept being served
Speaker 1: to me on Prime Video. It's called over Compensating.
Speaker 2: Welcome to College.
Speaker 4: You can be whoever you want to be here can
Speaker 4: I'm Benny Cormen, I'm a man Innx's cousin.
Speaker 6: How the freshman ladies treat me? Either you're a dude?
Speaker 1: Who or? And it's written, directed, and stars a guy
Speaker 1: called Benito's Skinner who's like His name on Instagram is
Speaker 1: Benny Drama. He's a thirty one year old actor and
Speaker 1: comedian and he wrote this story that's pretty much exactly
Speaker 1: based on him. But it's fiction about a guy who
Speaker 1: goes to college and he's like a jock and captain
Speaker 1: of the football team, and he's gay and he's closeted, and
Speaker 1: he meets this girl who's got her own story and
Speaker 1: they become really close friends after trying to hook up,
Speaker 1: and she helps him try to navigate coming out. Makes
Speaker 1: it sound really serious, but it's not at all. It's
Speaker 1: actually hilarious. The whole thing is really really funny. I
Speaker 1: just loved it. Short episodes, yeah, short episodes. There's a
Speaker 1: great supporting cast. They're juggling horrible hookups, flavored vodka, fake id's.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like almost you don't know what period
Speaker 1: of time it's set in, Like it's set in now,
Speaker 1: in an American college, but it's also like a time before.
Speaker 1: Like sometimes you can think, oh, everyone can come out,
Speaker 1: like ben queer is cool and it's no big deal anymore,
Speaker 1: but it actually is a big deal for a lot
Speaker 1: of people, and everybody has a different story about how
Speaker 1: they come out. And this one's just great. It's just
Speaker 1: such a fun show, overcompensating on Prime video.
Speaker 3: So I'm not actually here right now. I am so
Speaker 3: obsessed with this TV show that I have just discovered
Speaker 3: that I am currently rolling around on a sandy beach
Speaker 3: with a really handsome hunter who can slay a dragon
Speaker 3: with his bare hands.
Speaker 2: Not a dragon, a lion. A lion with his bare hand.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I've not heard of these.
Speaker 2: Harry P. Ruster, is what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3: She's nodding, because I have recently discovered my first show
Speaker 3: in the Yellowstone Universe. Do you know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 4: Yes, Yellowstone, everyone who watches says is brilliant, But I
Speaker 4: didn't know there was a universe.
Speaker 3: This guy, I don't know a lot about him is
Speaker 3: called Taylor Sheridan. His politics might be a little dodgy,
Speaker 3: so we won't go too deep into that, but he
Speaker 3: has created Yellowstone, which is this massive smash for paramount
Speaker 3: that stars Kevin Costner, and it's been It's one of
Speaker 3: the most watched shows in the world, absolutely huge on
Speaker 3: a ranch and so popular that it now has spin offs.
Speaker 3: It has one I think it's called nineteen eighteen or something.
Speaker 3: And the one that I have started watching at the
Speaker 3: recommendation of a friend specifically because of this love story
Speaker 3: at the heart of it, is called nineteen twenty three.
Speaker 6: You've been missus Dutton, though he would seems we're neighbors,
Speaker 6: have acquired the Stafford Ranch. Well, this is the yellow
Speaker 6: Stone and you have no rights here, jegab you can't
Speaker 6: start a range war. Range wars already started.
Speaker 5: How much you'll ide you on?
Speaker 6: I want the whole valley.
Speaker 2: Either we take this fight to them or it's common.
Speaker 6: Us men kill quick with a bullet or a nurse,
Speaker 6: but they're fighters with me, and I kill much slower.
Speaker 3: Is that when it's set, it's set in nineteen twenty three.
Speaker 3: It'd be weird if it was it Jesse in between
Speaker 3: the wars, right, And it's about this family in Montana,
Speaker 3: the patriarch matriarchy, Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren. So we're
Speaker 3: not fucking about here, We're not fucking about Wow, we
Speaker 3: are top tiering it, right. Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren
Speaker 3: are the people on the ranch who like that. And
Speaker 3: you know it's under threat from a mining company and
Speaker 3: there's all this stuff going on. They want their long
Speaker 3: lost nephew to come back and help them defend the
Speaker 3: legacy because he is a tough guy. He traumatized by
Speaker 3: World War One, is now in Africa where he is
Speaker 3: paid to go and kill man eating lions and leopards, right,
Speaker 3: Could there be a more manly job than that? No, anyway,
Speaker 3: So we go to Africa, we meet him. He's called
Speaker 3: Spencer Dunne. He's played by this guy called Brandon Sclennar
Speaker 3: and I had never met him before, but now he's
Speaker 3: all I think about.
Speaker 2: He was apparel if the good guy in it ends
Speaker 2: with us?
Speaker 4: Oh gorgeous, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Unbelievably gorgeous. And he meets this young english woman blah
Speaker 3: blah blah. Anyway, we don't need to know any more
Speaker 3: details except that their chemistry you know. Sometimes and maybe
Speaker 3: this is just me, but I remember now all the
Speaker 3: way back to being a kid, that you'd watched some
Speaker 3: shows where the chemistry between a couple was so amazing
Speaker 3: it just like.
Speaker 2: Swept you up in it.
Speaker 4: Is it humpy?
Speaker 2: It's humpy?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 3: In there having these two people are having a lot
Speaker 3: of great sex. But they're not having a lot of
Speaker 3: great sex. Some other people in the house are but
Speaker 3: our friend Spencer and his fancy English lady Alex having
Speaker 3: a lot of great sex. But it's not corny like
Speaker 3: it's what they call closed door sex, right, So you
Speaker 3: see everything leaving offit disappointed a little bit. His shirt's
Speaker 3: off a lot though. There's also this very distressing subplot
Speaker 3: going on that's about Indigenous Americans who've been taken from
Speaker 3: their families and are in a brutal school run by nuns.
Speaker 3: Sounds familiar to Australian viewers, and I've just found myself
Speaker 3: completely swept up in it and it's all I want
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 4: I've sold me on it.
Speaker 3: I want to go back and I want to watch
Speaker 3: these people do whatever they're doing. And I don't really
Speaker 3: want Harrison Ford to keep his rent because he's a
Speaker 3: bit of a dick, but I really really want my
Speaker 3: matexpense anyway, So that was a sity.
Speaker 2: I'm only in season one, so don't actually anyhow it happens.
Speaker 2: There are two.
Speaker 3: Seasons and the second one just dropped, so it's called
Speaker 3: nineteen twenty three.
Speaker 2: It's on Paramount Plus.
Speaker 3: It's part of the Yellowstone thing and I am now
Speaker 3: officially obsessed.
Speaker 1: That's like when I got really into Downton Abbey and Bridgington. Yes,
Speaker 1: because the steaks, it just felt so otherworldly. No one
Speaker 1: had phones, and the Gilded Age is coming back too.
Speaker 1: I'm very excited about it.
Speaker 3: Is interesting because I'm not I'm not always a historical
Speaker 3: drama person, but sometimes you know, you just get so
Speaker 3: swept up in it and maybe you need it at
Speaker 3: that time or whatever. But it's an escape, a proper escape. Anyway,
Speaker 3: I'm loving it and that's my Raco. That is all
Speaker 3: we've got time for today, out louders, thank you for
Speaker 3: being with us this week. As always, We're going to
Speaker 3: be back in your ears on Monday, of course, Jesse
Speaker 3: and Mia. What else have we got to tell everybody.
Speaker 4: A big thank you to our team group executive producer
Speaker 4: Ruth Devine, executive producer Emmeline Gazillis, our audio producer is
Speaker 4: Leah Porges, video.
Speaker 1: Producer Josh Green, our junior content producers Coco and Tessa,
Speaker 1: and our studios at Muma Mea are styled with furniture
Speaker 1: from Fenton and Fenton. Visit Fenton and Fenton dot com
Speaker 1: dot au. Before we go, I want to give everyone
Speaker 1: a little treat with another recommendation. I want to play
Speaker 1: us out with a beautiful song by a very dear
Speaker 1: friend of mine that's come out this week. It's pure
Speaker 1: weekend vibes. Her name is Jackie Oberg. She's talented and brilliant.
Speaker 1: Here is her So if I could beat my silhouette,
Speaker 1: We'll put a link in the show notes if you're
Speaker 1: listening on Spotify.
Speaker 4: Bye bye bye.
Speaker 1: Be alone, shy love, whom I do you?
Speaker 2: If I could only be mysel? Would I still be
Speaker 2: too much?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 5: You love?
Speaker 4: Memory?
Speaker 2: Would let you my.
Speaker 1: Jesus really love. Shout out to any MoMA Maya subscribers listening.
Speaker 1: If you love the show and want to support us
Speaker 1: as well, subscribing to Mom and Maya is the very
Speaker 1: best way to do so. There is a link in
Speaker 1: the episode description