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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Mamma Mia out Loud, where women come for

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Speaker 3: a debrief.

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Speaker 2: I'm Holly Wainwright.

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Speaker 1: I'm mea Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.

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Speaker 3: And here's what made our agenda for today, Friday, the

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Speaker 3: twentieth of June.

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Speaker 2: Why Sarah Jessica.

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Speaker 3: Parker might be one of the few women alive who

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Speaker 3: has never watched Carrie Bradshaw have sex, get dressed, or

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Speaker 3: type charmingly on a laptop.

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Speaker 1: Plus, everyone wants to text less, but nobody wants to

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Speaker 1: be left on red And is anyone else exhausted by

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Speaker 1: having to be always on? Not just at work but

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Speaker 1: with friends and family.

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Speaker 4: And we've got some recommendations for you. We are all

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Speaker 4: bringing you something to watch this weekend, and we have

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Speaker 4: some news. We do great there.

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Speaker 1: But first I have a question. Did everyone else know

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Speaker 1: that Bluey is a girl?

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Speaker 5: Yes? No?

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Speaker 4: Yes? What did you think Bluey was a boy?

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Speaker 2: I don't watch blue my children too well?

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Speaker 4: What did you think blue was a boy?

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Speaker 2: I think I did?

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Speaker 1: Yes, because blue is a boy's color.

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Speaker 4: No, Blue is a girl and has a sister named Bingo.

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Speaker 1: My mind is blown. So I kind of thought that

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Speaker 1: Bingo was a girl, but I assumed that Bluie was

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Speaker 1: a boy, and I learnt it because I also am

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Speaker 1: out of the loop of children's programs. But now spending

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Speaker 1: more time with my granddaughter, I've very much entered the.

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Speaker 2: World of Blue.

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Speaker 3: Everybody says it's the best kids TV show I've ever made,

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Speaker 3: and it's so successful all over the world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm back in the Wiggles. Goodness, there've been some

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Speaker 1: changes there. There's a lot of them now. Yeah, they've

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Speaker 1: all got different names. And Jeff isn't around, must have

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Speaker 1: gone sleep permanently.

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Speaker 2: But Blue is a girl.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I have something I need to add because I

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Speaker 4: was away with friends over the weekend and there were

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Speaker 4: eight of us and two of us didn't know this.

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Speaker 4: Did you guys know that oats and porridge were the

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Speaker 4: same thing? Yes? Stop it?

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Speaker 2: How did you not stop?

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Speaker 4: I think that they were thought porridge was likes ludge.

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Speaker 4: I thought porridge was like a mucky wet. I thought

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Speaker 4: it was just it's.

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Speaker 2: Made from oat.

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Speaker 1: Where do you think it came from the ground.

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Speaker 4: I thought that porridge was the thing you bought and

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Speaker 4: oats is the thing you buy. Separate things.

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Speaker 1: What did you think you did with oats?

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Speaker 4: I thought you made oats.

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Speaker 3: Can we revise? He is the smart one, you know

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Speaker 3: how that's always nothing. Jesse is the smart one.

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Speaker 2: Not today.

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Speaker 4: My friend and I were just our minds were absolutely blown.

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Speaker 1: Porridge and the same thing.

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Speaker 2: Wow, I've been off the show for a couple of days.

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Speaker 3: The thing I like the absolute best is that Miya

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Speaker 3: thought that they shou rocky.

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Speaker 1: Now I've forgotten which it is. Now I'm terrified and

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to call him Rihanna's boyfriend my life.

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Speaker 3: Which is very out loud of us to just make

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Speaker 3: him Rihanna's boyfriend. Anyway, if you had spent decades on

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Speaker 3: one of the most iconic TV shows of all time,

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Speaker 3: in glorious coture, full hair and makeup and getting to

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Speaker 3: snog loads of handsome, craggy guys, wouldn't you want to

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Speaker 3: watch yourself doing it?

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Speaker 2: No? I would.

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Speaker 3: Apparently if you're SJP you definitely wouldn't. And unless you're

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Speaker 3: trapped under something heavy, you probably know that she's currently

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Speaker 3: starring and executive producer, ing sho we make that a

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Speaker 3: thing absolutely, and just like that the Sex and the

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Speaker 3: City spin off. People have a lot of opinions about

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Speaker 3: that show. They particularly had a lot of opinions about

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Speaker 3: something that happened quite early on in this season with

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Speaker 3: John Corbet, who plays Aiden in his pickup truck. We

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Speaker 3: may have talked about it. Here's Howard Stern asking SJP

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Speaker 3: what she thought about that moment that revealed the truth

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Speaker 3: that she doesn't watch it.

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Speaker 6: It's is such a weird moment where he's having phone

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Speaker 6: sex with you and he's about to, you know, play

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Speaker 6: with himself when he's talking to you, and he licks

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Speaker 6: his hand and he takes his tongue and he starts

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Speaker 6: licking his hand and then he plays with his penis.

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Speaker 6: Do you know he did that in this thing? Because

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Speaker 6: you probably filmed it, And have you seen this scene

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Speaker 6: at all?

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Speaker 5: No, I've not seen that.

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Speaker 6: Is that really true? You really have not seen it?

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Speaker 5: Seen it? No?

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Speaker 1: I can't comment on that.

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Speaker 5: My lawyer has advised me.

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Speaker 6: Is that true?

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Speaker 1: I have no attorney?

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Speaker 6: No? No, But I mean, is it true that you're

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Speaker 6: up to you really have no knowledge of it?

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Speaker 5: Is I haven't seen most of Sex and the City ever,

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Speaker 5: and I haven't seen and just like that. Every now

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Speaker 5: and then Michael Patrick will say to me, please watch

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Speaker 5: episode you know, so I don't know. This is the

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Speaker 5: first I'm hearing about that.

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Speaker 1: I found this just weird. I have to say on

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Speaker 1: a few levels. First of all, as an executive producer

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Speaker 1: on a show, you have to watch it a lot.

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Speaker 1: I guess there are different versions of being an executive producer,

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Speaker 1: but part of what you do is you make decisions

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Speaker 1: early on about casting and about scripts, and then you

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Speaker 1: watch the dailies and you watch the edits of the

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Speaker 1: show and you give feedback. And she's been an executive

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Speaker 1: producer of Sex and the City and now and.

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Speaker 2: Just like that.

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Speaker 1: So I guess what this is suggesting is that it's

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Speaker 1: perhaps a vanity credit or that she inhabits. No, that's

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Speaker 1: a really common thing. Sometimes it means that you get

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Speaker 1: more money out of the back end, because you can

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Speaker 1: charge a fee for being the star, and you charge

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Speaker 1: a fee for being the executive producer. But interestingly, one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons that Kim Ktrall, who played Samantha, gave

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Speaker 1: for wanting to not come back is that she said, well,

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Speaker 1: Sarah Jessica Parker was an executive producer. I feel like

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Speaker 1: we all should have been, and just like that, Cynthia

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Speaker 1: Nixon who plays Miranda, and christ And Davis who plays

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Speaker 1: Charlotte both are executive producers.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it's vanity though, because I think that

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Speaker 3: Sarah Jessica Parker is interested in different things. So if

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Speaker 3: you listen, for example, I remember there was a little

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Speaker 3: doco about and just like that in the first season

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Speaker 3: where they talked about how obsessive she was about Carrie's closet,

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Speaker 3: Like I don't mean literally the clothes, but the way

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Speaker 3: it would be organized, the apartments, the way this would

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Speaker 3: be there and this would be there, and in a

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Speaker 3: little code the set dresses made it sound like it

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Speaker 3: was kind of a punish, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: I think that there are things that Sarah Jessica Parker

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Speaker 3: is incredibly detailed focused on, but the end result doesn't

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Speaker 3: seem like it's that, do you understand it?

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Speaker 4: I wonder if this is how you survive fifty years

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Speaker 4: in the industry is by not watching it, And I

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Speaker 4: reckon that a lot of actors when they sit down

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Speaker 4: at a premiere or when their film is released or whatever.

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Speaker 4: I don't reckon that they've watched it. I think that

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Speaker 4: we hear a lot of creatives talk about the process

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Speaker 4: and not necessarily being connected to the outcome. And I

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Speaker 4: just reckon that she is very invested in story. She's

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Speaker 4: a Booker Prize judge this year. I think she really

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Speaker 4: cares about words. She's a lover of like literary fiction

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Speaker 4: and that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: She's got a book in print.

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Speaker 3: She's got a book imprint which has many as one

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Speaker 3: of her many things.

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Speaker 4: Yes, So I.

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Speaker 1: Love talking about books, and she is a big advocate

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Speaker 1: for public libraries. And she talks about growing up. She's

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Speaker 1: one of like eight or nine kids, and she was

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Speaker 1: never allowed to leave the house, none of them unless

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Speaker 1: they had a book with them.

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Speaker 6: Oh.

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Speaker 4: I love that. Can we please talk about the other

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Speaker 4: tidbit that has come out of this press tour, which

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Speaker 4: is that Sarah Jessica Parker alleges that she reads up

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Speaker 4: to two books a day.

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Speaker 2: Many books do you read a week or a month?

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Speaker 7: Well, right now I'm judging the Booker. So I'm reading

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Speaker 7: two books today. Sometimes it's an honor, it's a privilege.

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Speaker 7: It's intense to be reading this the volume. Iss, it's

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Speaker 7: kind of hard to convey what it's like to have

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Speaker 7: as many books as we are given the opportunity to

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Speaker 7: read a book. Yeah, it's quite something.

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Speaker 4: What do we make of that?

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Speaker 3: Well, I've listened to interviews with her before where she

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Speaker 3: says that she reads constantly. She's not a social media person, right,

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Speaker 3: we all know that she's not a phone person. She

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Speaker 3: probably doesn't even have a phone. She's one of those

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Speaker 3: I think and shed.

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Speaker 1: It's like a giant Jane Nelson character. And she often

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Speaker 1: talks a bit like that.

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Speaker 2: She does.

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Speaker 3: And she says that she reads in the makeup chair.

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Speaker 3: Imagine how much time she spends in a makeup chair

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Speaker 3: and has done for fifty years. She says that she

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Speaker 3: reads on the subway, she reads all the time, she

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Speaker 3: reads between takes. She sounds very much like that is

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Speaker 3: her passion. And if you are a book of Prize Judge,

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Speaker 3: I can't believe she's a Book of Prize Jge.

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Speaker 2: That is such a flex go SJP.

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Speaker 3: It's such a prestigious literary award in the world, and

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Speaker 3: you have to read all the books.

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Speaker 4: And makes will That's what she said is she's just

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Speaker 4: come off obviously season three of and just like that,

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Speaker 4: she's in a period of her career where then she

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Speaker 4: has some downtime, so of course she has capacity. I'm like,

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Speaker 4: that's the dream to read two books a day.

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Speaker 1: But Holly's right, even when you're working as an actor,

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Speaker 1: there is so much downtime. That's one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: that I can't handle television. And I only went to

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Speaker 1: the set one time. There is so much waiting, so

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Speaker 1: much waiting. I was listening to the and just like

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Speaker 1: that podcast with Michael Patrick King, who is the big

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Speaker 1: boss of the show, and he was talking about this

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Speaker 1: scene in episode I think it's either two or three

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Speaker 1: with the rats I love them, And that was actually

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Speaker 1: filmed on the sound stage and they had to keep

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Speaker 1: gathering all the rats that I've assumed they were cgr rats.

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Speaker 1: They had to gather all the rats and then release

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Speaker 1: them again and again, and each time they were trying

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Speaker 1: to do that, it took ages and it was two

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Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. You know, so, Carrie, Oh, sorry,

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Speaker 1: Satan's ca Park. It does have a lot of time.

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Speaker 3: The thing that's shocking to people about this, I think

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Speaker 3: about the idea she doesn't watch it is because Jesse's right.

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Speaker 3: Lots of actors say they don't watch their work. For

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Speaker 3: a lot of them, it's part of their process, Like

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Speaker 3: they're like, I do the work and then I have

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Speaker 3: to disassociate, which seems very well adjusted, but also a

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Speaker 3: tiny bit arrogant in a way, because you learn when

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Speaker 3: you watch yourself back, right, But I guess if you've

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Speaker 3: been doing it for fifty years, maybe you don't need to.

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Speaker 3: But the thing that makes this so strange is Carrie

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Speaker 3: Bradshaw is someone that we all know so well. I

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Speaker 3: was thinking about it. I don't think there is a

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Speaker 3: fictional character that I have probably spent more time with

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Speaker 3: in my entire life than Carrie Bradshaw. And so to

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Speaker 3: most of us, s JP is Carrie Bradshaw, and it's

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Speaker 3: like she's someone that we all know really well. But

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Speaker 3: it's like s JP's never met her, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean, Like she doesn't view her the way we

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Speaker 3: view her.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever listened to Kristin Davis's podcast it's called

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Speaker 1: It's Really Weird, and she's very elevated. But anyway, when

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Speaker 1: she has s JP on, the whole episode is just

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Speaker 1: her explaining to s JP what happened on the show.

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Speaker 1: I'm serious, but I have a question for you both

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Speaker 1: in terms of it's one thing not to watch you

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Speaker 1: work back, and a lot of actors don't I get it.

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Speaker 1: We should technically listen back to every episode of this show.

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Speaker 1: I don't do.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 3: I go through phases where I do it is the

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Speaker 3: way you learn, And then I go through phases where

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I couldn't think of anything worse having to

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Speaker 3: listen to me because I just go listen to them.

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Speaker 3: Number of times I did that, listen to the way

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Speaker 3: I said that highly critical And that's what I've heard

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Speaker 3: as JP say is I would hate myself, and I've

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Speaker 3: heard Reese Witherspoon say the same thing. I would go

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Speaker 3: into a self hating spiral. All I can see is

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Speaker 3: all the choices I didn't make, all the mistakes I made,

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Speaker 3: And I get that, right, Yeah, I.

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Speaker 2: Get that too.

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Speaker 1: But my question is it's one thing not watching you

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Speaker 1: work back, but as an executive producer and star of

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Speaker 1: a show, when the whole cultural conversation in the reaction

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Speaker 1: to your episode was about the lickic we spoke about it,

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Speaker 1: and the week before it was about the funny puppet

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Speaker 1: um habit she was wearing. Do you really think she

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Speaker 1: doesn't know that? Do you really think she's not aware of.

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Speaker 4: The crit conversation? She doesn't know it. And what we

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Speaker 4: need to remember is that Sarah Jessica Parker is the

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Speaker 4: antithesis of Carrie Bradshaw and for the twenty years of

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Speaker 4: The Sex and the City Cannon she has sat down

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Speaker 4: for interviews, even the Howard Sterne one was a perfect

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Speaker 4: example to be asked questions that I believe make her uncomfortable.

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Speaker 4: I don't think she likes talk about.

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Speaker 1: Why did she go on Howard Sterne. I, Oh, she didn't.

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Speaker 2: That's what she's done it for years.

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Speaker 1: But that's what he does. Right as we know, promoting

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Speaker 1: a piece of work, a movie album, a TV show

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Speaker 1: is very different to what it used to be. You know,

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Speaker 1: in the nineties and the early two thousands, you do

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Speaker 1: a high profile interview with Vogue, Vanity Fair, you might

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Speaker 1: do a cover, you might do a couple of newspaper interviews,

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Speaker 1: a couple of TV interviews, one of those junkets. But

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Speaker 1: now you've got to go on a chicken shop date

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Speaker 1: with ameliads Moldenberg. You've got to eat hot wings for BuzzFeed.

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Speaker 1: You've got to go and talk to Howard Stern about

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Speaker 1: your sex life. You've got to sit down with call

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Speaker 1: her daddy Alex Creeper and talk about your abortion.

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Speaker 2: It's like, I don't think you have to if you're SJP.

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Speaker 3: I was thinking about this because you're so right that

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Speaker 3: whether or not the actor or the producer chooses to

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Speaker 3: engage with the conversation. Think about White lotus right, they

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Speaker 3: say that Mike White is really into that.

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Speaker 2: He loves that.

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Speaker 3: But also you can see some of the breakout stars

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Speaker 3: of this recent series loved it, like Walton Goggins, Oh

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Speaker 3: my God, Like he was the guy who played Rick.

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Speaker 3: Now he's said, lean into that so Hardy popped up everywhere.

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Speaker 3: Patrick Schwuerzner was everywhere. Patrick Schwarznegger was everywhere. They were

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Speaker 3: leaning into it really hard. They were part of that conversation.

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Speaker 3: And I think that an actor at the level of SJP,

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Speaker 3: who lets be clear, we reference some of the businesses

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Speaker 3: she has, it's not like she needs the money. I

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Speaker 3: think she genuinely sees it as work and herself very separately,

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Speaker 3: and she would be like, I will do four pieces

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Speaker 3: of content.

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Speaker 1: Well, you're contractually obliged to promote a show when you're

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Speaker 1: the star, and the whole point of the show is

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Speaker 1: very much around her, and it's sold around her. But

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Speaker 1: I do feel it's a little bit disingenuous. Well maybe

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Speaker 1: that's just her stick that her publicist didn't go, Hey,

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Speaker 1: Howard Stone's probably gonna ask you about the handlicking scene.

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Speaker 4: The more I learn about her, the more I love her.

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Speaker 1: I think she's fascinating.

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Speaker 4: I love her. I think she's the perfect celebrity. There

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Speaker 4: was this great anecdote that she told about being in

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Speaker 4: an airport. Robbie Williams recently talked about this, having people

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Speaker 4: come up and wanting to get a photo, and because

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Speaker 4: Sarah Jessica Parker has we believe, never owned a phone,

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Speaker 4: she doesn't know what's happening, and she will turn to them.

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Speaker 4: And she said, I turned to this woman in the

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Speaker 4: airport and said, you have not even said hello to me.

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Speaker 4: What I will give you is a conversation, and it

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Speaker 4: will be a lot more meaningful than a selfie. I

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Speaker 4: just kind of love her.

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Speaker 1: She's like from another tongue. I am worried about her

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Speaker 1: a little bit in the show. She looks pretty miserable.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it would be right that her character would

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Speaker 1: be depressed. She's a widow. I think, you know, Big

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Speaker 1: didn't die that long ago.

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Speaker 2: So funny, That's not how I'm reading it at all.

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Speaker 3: I'm really enjoying watching her be sword of single again,

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Speaker 3: Like I'm loving seeing her in that house. I'm loving

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Speaker 3: seeing her evolve. I think I loved actually the episode

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Speaker 3: where she went to Virginia and Aidan's family, because she's

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Speaker 3: talked about this, and I think it's true. I know

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Speaker 3: everyone hates Carrie, and I'm a vigorous carry apologist.

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Speaker 1: Not everyone hates Carrie. She's very polarizing, polarized, but there

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Speaker 1: are like entire websites about like why people should hate

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Speaker 1: her so much. I actually really like Carrie, and I

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Speaker 1: also think that she has changed, and she has you

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Speaker 1: think she's I think she's changed, and I think she's going.

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Speaker 1: Like what they're trying to show in this these are

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Speaker 1: episodes is like her going to Virginia and understanding, actually

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Speaker 1: understanding what it means that Aiden has a family rather

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Speaker 1: than just the concept of it, you know, and kind

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Speaker 1: of tasting.

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Speaker 3: That and being like, do I want to be part

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Speaker 3: of that? I love the handsome rider downstairs. I'm very

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Speaker 3: into it.

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Speaker 4: She made a point to about the Carrie hate and

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Speaker 4: how there are television shows that have been made about

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Speaker 4: mass murderers, you know, a male mass murderer who doesn't

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Speaker 4: get half the hate that Carrie Bradshaw does, and how

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Speaker 4: there is something deeply sexist about our reading of Carrie.

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Speaker 4: And I think that that's very true.

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Speaker 1: Is it sexist or is it that we you know,

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Speaker 1: we talked on Monday Show about how when people find

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Speaker 1: out who their trolls are, it's often someone who's essentially

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Speaker 1: jealous of that.

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Speaker 4: I don't think we know what to do with complicated I.

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Speaker 1: Don't mean jealous necessarily of Carrie. But is it sexist

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Speaker 1: or is it what Holly was saying in that we've

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Speaker 1: spent so much time we identify with this character, you

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Speaker 1: know that whole thing. Are you a Charlotte?

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Speaker 2: Are you carry?

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Speaker 1: And everyone wanted to be a Carrie that when they

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Speaker 1: behave in ways that we don't like, we feel personally.

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Speaker 4: Betrayed or do like breaking bad or something like. There

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Speaker 4: are shows about complicated men and we follow them every

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Speaker 4: step and go I still like him? Has he killed

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Speaker 4: forty five people?

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Speaker 2: Sure?

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Speaker 4: Whereas Carrie makes a morally dubious decision and we go.

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Speaker 4: I think that's some wrong with her.

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Speaker 3: This is the thing about likable women, right, is that

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Speaker 3: I like a lot of women, and some of my

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Speaker 3: great friends, and I'm certain also me who are not perfect,

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Speaker 3: and who makes selfish decisions sometimes and who sometimes are

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Speaker 3: a bit annoying and sometimes are a bit self obsessed

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Speaker 3: and sometimes go out with the wrong guy. Like, that's

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Speaker 3: what we're actually like. And so I think that all

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Speaker 3: the things you can throw at a carry that aren't real,

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Speaker 3: you know, obviously obviously, the wardrobe, the money, all that stuff.

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Speaker 3: Actually the fact that she's a bit annoying sometimes is

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Speaker 3: the most real thing about her. She's also very funny.

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Speaker 3: I love watching her. I think she gets the best lines.

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Speaker 3: I like the lines on her face and on the edge.

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Speaker 4: I'm a big fan.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the criticism when I feel frustrated with her,

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00:17:07,821 --> 00:17:11,381
Speaker 1: it's because she hasn't evolved, not because she has. Like

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Speaker 1: the whole thing with the shoes just feels so one note,

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Speaker 1: and the you know that whole storyline where it was

390
00:17:17,702 --> 00:17:19,981
Speaker 1: the thumbs up emoji or the thumbs down, like it

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00:17:20,101 --> 00:17:24,061
Speaker 1: just seems very stuck in the nineties, both with her

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Speaker 1: cultural references, you know, when she was like, oh little

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Speaker 1: house on the carry instead of there's no trad wife reference.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like she exists, not in this world.

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Speaker 2: But I think she does. Carry.

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Speaker 3: Isn't a TikTok person, Not every woman who certainly the

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Speaker 3: age that she is as plugged into the zeitgeist as

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Speaker 3: you are. I mean, as cool and relevant and youthful

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Speaker 3: as you are, my friend.

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Speaker 1: After the break, what is an acceptable amount of time

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Speaker 1: to wait until you text someone back. There've been a

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Speaker 1: few stories and newsletters and conversations in the zeitgeist over

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Speaker 1: the last couple of months about the volume of texting

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00:18:06,222 --> 00:18:09,061
Speaker 1: that we are becoming accustomed to. The latest of these

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Speaker 1: is an article that was written in New York Magazine

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Speaker 1: by the author Catherine jess and Morton, who has little kids,

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Speaker 1: and she was talking about the burden of texting for parents,

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Speaker 1: and she talks about now, when you have a play date,

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Speaker 1: the other parent expects constant updates via text, photos, videos

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Speaker 1: of what's happening. And she says that she finds that

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Speaker 1: like completely counterintuitive and like a real burden, because she said,

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Speaker 1: the point of me having another kid over is so

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Speaker 1: that my kid can play and I can get some

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Speaker 1: other stuff done, and vice versa. For my kid's at

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Speaker 1: someone else's house. I don't want to have to be

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Speaker 1: responding to constant updates about how they're going.

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Speaker 4: She called it maternal self soothing, which I thought was

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Speaker 4: a really, really good phrase. It's almost pacifying for the

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Speaker 4: person doing it to feel as though every time they

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Speaker 4: have an anxious thought about their child or they worry,

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Speaker 4: they almost want to perform the fact they're thinking about

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Speaker 4: their child.

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Speaker 2: Well, it was.

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Speaker 1: Interesting because I had Luna for the weekend and you're away, Jesse,

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Speaker 1: and when I have her, I do have that track

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Speaker 1: going in my mind. I should capture this on video,

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Speaker 1: I should capture this one.

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Speaker 4: And I have a track going in my mind that

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Speaker 4: if I haven't checked in a few hours. Do people

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Speaker 4: think I'm not thinking about her?

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Speaker 1: Yes? And I did think that. And I even said

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Speaker 1: to Luca when I spoke to someone, like, what are

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Speaker 1: you guys up to? You're not behaving in the normal way.

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Speaker 1: You're not texting as often as you do, because usually

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Speaker 1: when I've got her, it's like how is she? Especially

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00:19:38,222 --> 00:19:41,542
Speaker 1: from him? Actually, anyway, it just turned out that you

437
00:19:41,621 --> 00:19:43,462
Speaker 1: were just having a brain time.

438
00:19:43,782 --> 00:19:45,542
Speaker 3: So when you just said I did think that. I

439
00:19:45,542 --> 00:19:47,782
Speaker 3: don't think that Jesse didn't care about her daughter anymore.

440
00:19:47,982 --> 00:19:50,262
Speaker 1: No, I thought that they were to say kind of

441
00:19:50,302 --> 00:19:53,941
Speaker 1: Shenanigan's weird sex weekend or something. I didn't know what

442
00:19:54,061 --> 00:19:57,901
Speaker 1: was going on. And then also I'm like, well, why

443
00:19:57,901 --> 00:20:00,821
Speaker 1: do I keep texting? Do I keep texting to show

444
00:20:00,861 --> 00:20:02,341
Speaker 1: you how much fun she's having?

445
00:20:02,821 --> 00:20:03,581
Speaker 2: Is that about me?

446
00:20:04,182 --> 00:20:07,342
Speaker 1: Or is that about making you feel better? It's an

447
00:20:07,341 --> 00:20:10,382
Speaker 1: interesting thing, But she says also, because when your kids

448
00:20:10,422 --> 00:20:12,341
Speaker 1: are too young to have a phone, you choose not

449
00:20:12,422 --> 00:20:15,662
Speaker 1: to give them a phone. All of this parent communication,

450
00:20:15,901 --> 00:20:18,941
Speaker 1: the WhatsApp groups, the messages through playdates, the organizing of

451
00:20:18,942 --> 00:20:23,101
Speaker 1: the social things falls disproportionately on the mother. So that's

452
00:20:23,302 --> 00:20:26,381
Speaker 1: the parenting side of it. But then there's also the

453
00:20:26,422 --> 00:20:29,862
Speaker 1: group texts. Caroline o'donahue wrote a piece in her newsletter

454
00:20:29,901 --> 00:20:33,542
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago saying everyone wants to text less,

455
00:20:33,661 --> 00:20:36,582
Speaker 1: but nobody wants to be left on red. What did

456
00:20:36,621 --> 00:20:37,182
Speaker 1: you think of that?

457
00:20:37,581 --> 00:20:40,621
Speaker 3: It's one hundred percent true. We all are obsessed with

458
00:20:40,942 --> 00:20:44,101
Speaker 3: being off our phones more, but we all demand instant

459
00:20:44,222 --> 00:20:45,742
Speaker 3: responses to anything that.

460
00:20:45,702 --> 00:20:46,502
Speaker 2: We put out there.

461
00:20:46,542 --> 00:20:50,462
Speaker 3: So what I loved, particularly about what Caroline o'donahue wrote,

462
00:20:50,462 --> 00:20:53,061
Speaker 3: which I really related to, is that she basically was

463
00:20:53,061 --> 00:20:55,302
Speaker 3: saying that she was a bad texter, and she sort

464
00:20:55,341 --> 00:20:56,901
Speaker 3: of threw out a few reasons of why she was

465
00:20:56,901 --> 00:20:58,821
Speaker 3: a bad texter, and then she wrote this, She said,

466
00:20:58,861 --> 00:21:01,222
Speaker 3: The thing is, I don't really want to be better

467
00:21:01,262 --> 00:21:03,222
Speaker 3: at it. I'm bad at texting. I don't want to

468
00:21:03,222 --> 00:21:04,901
Speaker 3: be good at it. I hate my phone, and so

469
00:21:05,022 --> 00:21:07,502
Speaker 3: do you. I feel vulgar and sick when I spend

470
00:21:07,581 --> 00:21:10,262
Speaker 3: too much time on it, and a never to Texting

471
00:21:10,341 --> 00:21:13,661
Speaker 3: takes time. But equally, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings,

472
00:21:13,901 --> 00:21:16,581
Speaker 3: particularly the feelings of people I genuinely care about. It

473
00:21:16,581 --> 00:21:19,741
Speaker 3: shouldn't be a problem, and yet it is. Everyone I

474
00:21:19,782 --> 00:21:21,702
Speaker 3: know is trying to cut down on their screen time.

475
00:21:21,861 --> 00:21:23,902
Speaker 3: No one wants to be left on read. When we're

476
00:21:23,942 --> 00:21:26,141
Speaker 3: left on red, it feels very close to being thrown

477
00:21:26,182 --> 00:21:29,262
Speaker 3: out of the nest. When we fail to text others back,

478
00:21:29,302 --> 00:21:32,221
Speaker 3: we see it as morally neutral behavior, but when others

479
00:21:32,262 --> 00:21:35,542
Speaker 3: do it to us, it creates sincere panic. And that

480
00:21:35,702 --> 00:21:38,381
Speaker 3: is so true. How many times have you sent a

481
00:21:38,422 --> 00:21:41,501
Speaker 3: text to somebody and they haven't responded. And then they

482
00:21:41,542 --> 00:21:44,542
Speaker 3: haven't responded. Your mind goes to, she's mad with me?

483
00:21:44,742 --> 00:21:47,581
Speaker 2: What have I done? Why haven't they responded? Was I rude?

484
00:21:47,661 --> 00:21:49,262
Speaker 2: And you go back and you read the text. Was

485
00:21:49,262 --> 00:21:51,782
Speaker 2: I rude? Did I phrase that wrongly? Should I? Blah

486
00:21:51,821 --> 00:21:52,222
Speaker 2: blah blah.

487
00:21:52,262 --> 00:21:54,421
Speaker 3: But when you don't reply to a text, you're like,

488
00:21:54,982 --> 00:21:56,421
Speaker 3: that's fine, I don't need to reply to that.

489
00:21:56,502 --> 00:21:59,741
Speaker 1: And then when someone texts you and says is everything okay?

490
00:22:00,022 --> 00:22:02,782
Speaker 1: Or are you mad with me? It feels like, well,

491
00:22:02,821 --> 00:22:03,421
Speaker 1: it's another bit.

492
00:22:03,502 --> 00:22:05,941
Speaker 3: It's interesting because it brings up the question of which

493
00:22:06,022 --> 00:22:08,581
Speaker 3: texts require a response and which ones don't.

494
00:22:08,942 --> 00:22:11,542
Speaker 4: The point there, o'donna who makes is that we have

495
00:22:11,702 --> 00:22:14,941
Speaker 4: now seen constant connection as a proxy for intimacy. So

496
00:22:14,982 --> 00:22:16,942
Speaker 4: if it's not a constant boom boom boom boom boom

497
00:22:16,982 --> 00:22:19,141
Speaker 4: bom boom, then we're not as close as we were.

498
00:22:19,381 --> 00:22:21,941
Speaker 4: And sometimes with friendships they go through a really intense

499
00:22:21,982 --> 00:22:23,622
Speaker 4: period and then you go, we haven't texted. I think

500
00:22:23,661 --> 00:22:26,821
Speaker 4: this all the time. I think about someone and I go,

501
00:22:27,262 --> 00:22:30,582
Speaker 4: I should text them, And it's like we can't have

502
00:22:30,621 --> 00:22:33,902
Speaker 4: that feeling without doing it. Whereas it used to be

503
00:22:33,982 --> 00:22:35,661
Speaker 4: that it was a phone caller. It was a letter

504
00:22:36,141 --> 00:22:36,862
Speaker 4: which by.

505
00:22:36,821 --> 00:22:39,022
Speaker 1: Are you'd organized to get together in Yes.

506
00:22:38,742 --> 00:22:42,382
Speaker 4: But by that nature it wasn't always accessible and always possible.

507
00:22:42,422 --> 00:22:44,861
Speaker 4: So she has this point about how just like in

508
00:22:44,901 --> 00:22:50,061
Speaker 4: the nineteen fifties, when technology meant that vacuuming was easier,

509
00:22:50,262 --> 00:22:52,542
Speaker 4: like you could finally vacuum rather than sweep, and you

510
00:22:52,581 --> 00:22:54,622
Speaker 4: had a dishwasher, and you had all of these new

511
00:22:54,621 --> 00:22:56,461
Speaker 4: things to make cleaning easier, and they were going to

512
00:22:56,502 --> 00:23:00,501
Speaker 4: afford women more time. What happened was that our standards

513
00:23:00,502 --> 00:23:03,542
Speaker 4: for cleaning just kept rising, and the same has happened

514
00:23:03,542 --> 00:23:07,621
Speaker 4: with our standards for socializing. And it's interesting how disproportionately

515
00:23:07,661 --> 00:23:10,942
Speaker 4: this has impacted women, because I don't know men who

516
00:23:10,942 --> 00:23:15,022
Speaker 4: are having this same the mental load of all of this.

517
00:23:15,101 --> 00:23:16,782
Speaker 4: We talked about this in our live show, that the

518
00:23:16,821 --> 00:23:19,861
Speaker 4: mental load of the group chat is something that women

519
00:23:19,942 --> 00:23:22,502
Speaker 4: are wearing in a way that men aren't. They don't

520
00:23:22,542 --> 00:23:25,742
Speaker 4: have the same levels of guilt and responsibility to their friends,

521
00:23:25,742 --> 00:23:28,181
Speaker 4: which I actually think there's something kind of admirable about that.

522
00:23:28,262 --> 00:23:31,702
Speaker 3: It also must change the texture of our relationships.

523
00:23:31,821 --> 00:23:32,742
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember.

524
00:23:32,782 --> 00:23:35,342
Speaker 3: There was a skit in a Chris Rock special once

525
00:23:35,381 --> 00:23:38,462
Speaker 3: where he talked about how marriage is before constant texting

526
00:23:38,542 --> 00:23:41,022
Speaker 3: and marriage is after a different thing and they should

527
00:23:41,061 --> 00:23:44,141
Speaker 3: be classified in a different time frame because you used

528
00:23:44,182 --> 00:23:46,982
Speaker 3: to leave the house in the morning, spend all day

529
00:23:47,061 --> 00:23:49,381
Speaker 3: doing whatever you were doing, come back together in the

530
00:23:49,422 --> 00:23:51,942
Speaker 3: evening and you hadn't had any contact all day. And

531
00:23:51,982 --> 00:23:53,542
Speaker 3: you know, lots of people still like that, I guess,

532
00:23:53,621 --> 00:23:56,022
Speaker 3: but most of us are very much like just checking

533
00:23:56,061 --> 00:23:58,262
Speaker 3: in and could you do and house things and did

534
00:23:58,302 --> 00:24:03,862
Speaker 3: you believe this happened? And that heightened number of interactions

535
00:24:03,861 --> 00:24:07,101
Speaker 3: means there's less to discuss in real time. But also

536
00:24:07,222 --> 00:24:10,101
Speaker 3: does it kind of make your relationship more or intense

537
00:24:10,702 --> 00:24:10,942
Speaker 3: or do.

538
00:24:10,861 --> 00:24:14,341
Speaker 4: You burn through relationships faster because you've reached the point

539
00:24:14,381 --> 00:24:17,742
Speaker 4: of peak everything, like you've just known each other really,

540
00:24:17,742 --> 00:24:20,262
Speaker 4: really well. And I think that group chats are a

541
00:24:20,302 --> 00:24:24,101
Speaker 4: specific type of connection because they can just go all

542
00:24:24,141 --> 00:24:26,982
Speaker 4: the time, like constantly, and there might be twenty people

543
00:24:26,982 --> 00:24:29,821
Speaker 4: in them. But I don't necessarily think that people who

544
00:24:29,821 --> 00:24:31,901
Speaker 4: are bad at texting. I never get the sense that

545
00:24:31,982 --> 00:24:34,141
Speaker 4: I'm mad at them all. I think they don't like me.

546
00:24:34,262 --> 00:24:36,181
Speaker 4: I think they have a different relationship with their phone.

547
00:24:36,222 --> 00:24:39,782
Speaker 4: And I'm quite aware that my relationship with my phone

548
00:24:40,101 --> 00:24:41,981
Speaker 4: is a problem i'd like to fix.

549
00:24:42,262 --> 00:24:45,981
Speaker 1: I find group chats in a way easier. And I

550
00:24:46,022 --> 00:24:47,941
Speaker 1: know that you know some people are in group chats,

551
00:24:47,942 --> 00:24:50,661
Speaker 1: some people aren't. But what I've made peace with now

552
00:24:51,422 --> 00:24:54,502
Speaker 1: is sometimes a group chat can be going on and

553
00:24:54,581 --> 00:24:57,181
Speaker 1: you're not in it, and you're not involved, and it's okay.

554
00:24:57,702 --> 00:24:59,861
Speaker 1: It's almost like social media, like when you pick up

555
00:24:59,861 --> 00:25:01,462
Speaker 1: your phone to look at social media, you don't go

556
00:25:01,542 --> 00:25:03,661
Speaker 1: back to the beginning of You just jump in the

557
00:25:03,702 --> 00:25:06,022
Speaker 1: stream wherever you are, write it for a little while

558
00:25:06,022 --> 00:25:06,462
Speaker 1: and then post.

559
00:25:06,581 --> 00:25:06,701
Speaker 5: Now.

560
00:25:06,861 --> 00:25:09,702
Speaker 4: It's also that, and I think it was O'donahu who

561
00:25:09,742 --> 00:25:12,022
Speaker 4: made this point. I mean, our work communications are in

562
00:25:12,061 --> 00:25:14,581
Speaker 4: the same place that our social communications are, and every

563
00:25:14,581 --> 00:25:20,061
Speaker 4: notification from a friend's message to an urgent work email

564
00:25:20,141 --> 00:25:22,462
Speaker 4: is presented the same on a phone. So you get

565
00:25:22,462 --> 00:25:24,702
Speaker 4: this spike of like must open now. And what I've

566
00:25:24,742 --> 00:25:27,181
Speaker 4: tried to do is go do not open the message

567
00:25:27,222 --> 00:25:29,141
Speaker 4: until you can answer it. So if that means that

568
00:25:29,222 --> 00:25:31,302
Speaker 4: at nine pm you go, all right, I'm going to

569
00:25:31,462 --> 00:25:33,221
Speaker 4: because then I enjoy it, like I sit down and

570
00:25:33,222 --> 00:25:36,102
Speaker 4: I go, here's my time to go through this. And

571
00:25:36,182 --> 00:25:40,022
Speaker 4: she speaks to about the experience and this is something

572
00:25:40,061 --> 00:25:42,581
Speaker 4: new where you're waiting on a message from someone and

573
00:25:42,581 --> 00:25:44,901
Speaker 4: then they post on social media and you're like, I

574
00:25:45,061 --> 00:25:46,861
Speaker 4: know you have that phone in your hand, and I

575
00:25:46,982 --> 00:25:49,382
Speaker 4: just want to know if we're hanging out on Wednesday.

576
00:25:48,982 --> 00:25:52,302
Speaker 3: We're being spied on the way in that context, So

577
00:25:52,661 --> 00:25:54,901
Speaker 3: on that and this idea that we all feel a

578
00:25:54,942 --> 00:25:57,981
Speaker 3: little abandoned if we're left on red, what do you

579
00:25:58,061 --> 00:26:00,421
Speaker 3: think that messages you do have to respond to? And

580
00:26:00,462 --> 00:26:03,702
Speaker 3: how long is it okay to leave between Because this

581
00:26:03,821 --> 00:26:06,502
Speaker 3: original story, she was saying, a lot of people start

582
00:26:06,542 --> 00:26:09,381
Speaker 3: their text and I certainly do this sometimes with so

583
00:26:09,821 --> 00:26:11,901
Speaker 3: I just saw this, and she says that she has

584
00:26:11,942 --> 00:26:14,022
Speaker 3: a friend who she considers to have a very relaxed,

585
00:26:14,061 --> 00:26:17,502
Speaker 3: cool relationship with texting who never apologizes. It's just like

586
00:26:17,621 --> 00:26:19,861
Speaker 3: I got to it when I got to it. How

587
00:26:19,901 --> 00:26:22,302
Speaker 3: do you feel if people don't reply to your messages?

588
00:26:22,581 --> 00:26:23,742
Speaker 3: How long do you think it's okay?

589
00:26:23,942 --> 00:26:26,181
Speaker 4: I assume that they've done the thing where they've opened it,

590
00:26:26,222 --> 00:26:28,302
Speaker 4: they've gone, I'll get back to that. They've then had

591
00:26:28,462 --> 00:26:31,502
Speaker 4: seven hundred and eighty other thoughts within two hours and

592
00:26:31,542 --> 00:26:33,702
Speaker 4: they've totally forgotten and that's fine. And if it's urgent.

593
00:26:33,742 --> 00:26:36,701
Speaker 4: I'll follow up, but I'm never ever getting my feelings

594
00:26:36,782 --> 00:26:37,901
Speaker 4: hurt that I haven't got a response.

595
00:26:37,942 --> 00:26:38,621
Speaker 2: What about Eamia.

596
00:26:38,742 --> 00:26:42,542
Speaker 1: I've got so many going at once that I don't notice.

597
00:26:42,702 --> 00:26:44,542
Speaker 4: To be honest, sometimes I feel I've been many to

598
00:26:44,581 --> 00:26:46,821
Speaker 4: bring this up with your Maia. Sometimes you throw a

599
00:26:46,901 --> 00:26:49,101
Speaker 4: link in our chat and I go, I'll read that,

600
00:26:49,502 --> 00:26:50,821
Speaker 4: and then I don't get back to you, and I

601
00:26:50,861 --> 00:26:53,662
Speaker 4: feel like you're sitting there going they didn't read my link.

602
00:26:53,742 --> 00:26:56,662
Speaker 3: It's true because Mia throws great links like the quality

603
00:26:56,702 --> 00:26:59,782
Speaker 3: is high. Yeah, I'm but it means probably at the

604
00:26:59,782 --> 00:27:01,662
Speaker 3: time she said, I don't have ten minutes to sit

605
00:27:01,702 --> 00:27:03,101
Speaker 3: and read that, so I'll be like, I'll get to

606
00:27:03,182 --> 00:27:05,221
Speaker 3: that later, by which time Maya will have forgotten about it.

607
00:27:05,302 --> 00:27:07,661
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I fear that I've hurt your feeling.

608
00:27:07,742 --> 00:27:10,701
Speaker 1: So to be clear, because you're right, my love language

609
00:27:10,782 --> 00:27:12,702
Speaker 1: is sending links of things that I think people will

610
00:27:12,702 --> 00:27:17,702
Speaker 1: find interesting. I don't expect a response even necessarily. Ever,

611
00:27:18,101 --> 00:27:20,982
Speaker 1: it's more here's a little thing. I have to send

612
00:27:20,982 --> 00:27:22,621
Speaker 1: it now because I'm reading it now and I won't

613
00:27:22,982 --> 00:27:24,462
Speaker 1: find it again. But here's a little thing I thought

614
00:27:24,502 --> 00:27:28,262
Speaker 1: you might enjoy. Not let's discuss this together. Please read it.

615
00:27:28,302 --> 00:27:31,502
Speaker 1: Unless it's like, oh my god, yeah, it's just happen immediately.

616
00:27:32,101 --> 00:27:34,861
Speaker 1: Usually it's just I think you'll be interested in this.

617
00:27:34,942 --> 00:27:38,221
Speaker 1: But there's no burden of response a question, you know,

618
00:27:38,262 --> 00:27:43,381
Speaker 1: when messaging what's happened? Everyone introduced like the reactions. At first,

619
00:27:43,462 --> 00:27:45,101
Speaker 1: I thought that was going to make things better because

620
00:27:45,101 --> 00:27:46,941
Speaker 1: you could just do a little thumbs up to what

621
00:27:46,982 --> 00:27:50,742
Speaker 1: someone said. But now it's almost like nothing ever ends

622
00:27:50,982 --> 00:27:53,101
Speaker 1: because you do a thumbs up, and then someone does

623
00:27:53,141 --> 00:27:55,661
Speaker 1: a thumbs up to your thumbs up, and then I know.

624
00:27:56,302 --> 00:27:58,702
Speaker 3: And also you know, sometimes I've got a friend who

625
00:27:58,742 --> 00:28:01,061
Speaker 3: I'll go so I'll meet you at seven and she'll

626
00:28:01,101 --> 00:28:02,502
Speaker 3: love heart it, And I'm.

627
00:28:02,341 --> 00:28:05,141
Speaker 2: Like, was that a yes? Or enough? Are we on

628
00:28:05,422 --> 00:28:05,981
Speaker 2: at seven?

629
00:28:06,182 --> 00:28:08,821
Speaker 4: I don't know, be clear. I just love how it

630
00:28:08,901 --> 00:28:12,141
Speaker 4: was through it. Do not call me, stage text me,

631
00:28:12,462 --> 00:28:14,061
Speaker 4: and now we've gone to it, do not text me.

632
00:28:14,101 --> 00:28:15,542
Speaker 4: I don't want to reply. I also don't want to

633
00:28:15,581 --> 00:28:17,782
Speaker 4: be emailed. I definitely don't want you at my door.

634
00:28:18,182 --> 00:28:21,022
Speaker 4: I think that what we're saying is like go away.

635
00:28:21,101 --> 00:28:23,181
Speaker 4: And this is what o'donna who said, is that I

636
00:28:23,222 --> 00:28:25,901
Speaker 4: post on social to prove to myself that I exist question.

637
00:28:26,022 --> 00:28:26,222
Speaker 6: Mind.

638
00:28:26,302 --> 00:28:27,662
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're also lonely, and.

639
00:28:27,702 --> 00:28:29,502
Speaker 4: Yet there is a different thing. Often I'll see a

640
00:28:29,661 --> 00:28:31,581
Speaker 4: text come through and I go, I don't have the

641
00:28:31,621 --> 00:28:33,941
Speaker 4: social energy to construct a reply yet, and then I

642
00:28:33,982 --> 00:28:36,142
Speaker 4: have to wait for that to kind of come back.

643
00:28:36,182 --> 00:28:38,302
Speaker 4: It takes a different part of you to kind of

644
00:28:38,582 --> 00:28:39,222
Speaker 4: give it justice.

645
00:28:39,342 --> 00:28:41,822
Speaker 3: I think it's not don't call me, don't text me,

646
00:28:41,902 --> 00:28:45,262
Speaker 3: don't anything me. It's I only want to communicate on

647
00:28:45,302 --> 00:28:48,062
Speaker 3: my terms when I want to communicate. Anything else is

648
00:28:48,062 --> 00:28:50,582
Speaker 3: an inconvenience, And it's to do with what we've discussed

649
00:28:50,582 --> 00:28:52,822
Speaker 3: lots of times about. However, thing's on demand now, so

650
00:28:52,822 --> 00:28:55,302
Speaker 3: we're like, I might have ten minutes to have a

651
00:28:55,302 --> 00:28:58,302
Speaker 3: proper catch up with you, but you might not, And

652
00:28:58,342 --> 00:29:00,622
Speaker 3: so now with voice notes, and then it's who's got

653
00:29:00,622 --> 00:29:03,782
Speaker 3: time for that one? And baby, sometimes we should just

654
00:29:03,782 --> 00:29:04,742
Speaker 3: bring back the phone call.

655
00:29:05,542 --> 00:29:08,542
Speaker 4: Your favorite podcast is now a video but a vodcast

656
00:29:08,582 --> 00:29:11,822
Speaker 4: the future or crap Telly. That's a headline from the

657
00:29:11,822 --> 00:29:16,221
Speaker 4: Guardian last month, and it feels uncomfortably pointed. So if

658
00:29:16,222 --> 00:29:18,981
Speaker 4: you're big into podcasting, you might have noticed that a

659
00:29:19,022 --> 00:29:22,982
Speaker 4: lot of the blockbuster podcasts now if you're listening on Spotify,

660
00:29:23,262 --> 00:29:25,622
Speaker 4: like a video of that will come up at the

661
00:29:25,661 --> 00:29:28,302
Speaker 4: same time they're publishing full videos along with the audio.

662
00:29:28,661 --> 00:29:31,981
Speaker 4: And in February of this year, YouTube announced that it

663
00:29:32,062 --> 00:29:36,342
Speaker 4: had one billion users watching podcast content, meaning that it

664
00:29:36,382 --> 00:29:39,902
Speaker 4: has become the market leader in podcasting. It's bigger and

665
00:29:39,902 --> 00:29:42,622
Speaker 4: Apple bigger than Spotify. People are watching the podcasts.

666
00:29:42,342 --> 00:29:45,902
Speaker 1: Yeah, slightly dubious numbers in terms of I think the

667
00:29:45,942 --> 00:29:49,902
Speaker 1: way they measure a view of a podcast is like one.

668
00:29:49,742 --> 00:29:52,461
Speaker 4: Second interesting, but still.

669
00:29:52,262 --> 00:29:53,902
Speaker 1: I mean, you only just have to flick through your

670
00:29:53,902 --> 00:29:56,742
Speaker 1: social media, and all of my social media now is

671
00:29:56,782 --> 00:29:58,782
Speaker 1: pretty much just podcasts reels of podcasts.

672
00:29:58,782 --> 00:30:00,822
Speaker 4: A lot of men I know are watching a Joe

673
00:30:00,942 --> 00:30:03,902
Speaker 4: Rogan like that. Stuff is really big. Whether we like

674
00:30:03,942 --> 00:30:06,421
Speaker 4: it or not, vodcasts are happening. They'll be coming to

675
00:30:06,422 --> 00:30:09,782
Speaker 4: streaming services, and this shift is in large part than

676
00:30:09,822 --> 00:30:14,022
Speaker 4: by gen z, who use YouTuber's background television in a

677
00:30:14,062 --> 00:30:18,181
Speaker 4: way that isn't native to me. Some industry insiders reckon

678
00:30:18,422 --> 00:30:21,742
Speaker 4: vodcasts are just crap telly, and there's resistance by many

679
00:30:21,902 --> 00:30:24,902
Speaker 4: who don't want to consume another form of entertainment that

680
00:30:25,022 --> 00:30:27,702
Speaker 4: has them gaping at a screen like they've loved how

681
00:30:27,742 --> 00:30:30,342
Speaker 4: refreshing podcasts are. Because It frees them from a screen

682
00:30:30,542 --> 00:30:32,142
Speaker 4: and they can go about their lives while listening.

683
00:30:32,182 --> 00:30:35,022
Speaker 3: So most women are doing other things right now while

684
00:30:35,022 --> 00:30:37,342
Speaker 3: they're listening to this. I can see you. You are

685
00:30:37,462 --> 00:30:39,702
Speaker 3: washing up, you are going for a walk, you are

686
00:30:40,342 --> 00:30:43,062
Speaker 3: pretending to a boring story, or child is telling you.

687
00:30:43,182 --> 00:30:46,661
Speaker 4: Yeah. Others, however, like the idea of seeing hosts that

688
00:30:46,702 --> 00:30:49,142
Speaker 4: they're familiar with and having them on in their house.

689
00:30:49,582 --> 00:30:52,062
Speaker 4: We're getting a lot of questions about our pivot because

690
00:30:52,062 --> 00:30:56,622
Speaker 4: we're in our new podcast era. We're in our vodcast era. Maya,

691
00:30:56,862 --> 00:30:59,461
Speaker 4: are we trying to be shitty television? Is that the strat?

692
00:30:59,582 --> 00:31:00,461
Speaker 4: Is that the strategy?

693
00:31:00,582 --> 00:31:03,382
Speaker 1: Yeah, strat, that's definitely the strategy you mentioned, jen Z.

694
00:31:03,502 --> 00:31:05,462
Speaker 1: But the thing that's really driving it all, of course

695
00:31:05,542 --> 00:31:09,782
Speaker 1: is capitalism. Jesse, I can't believe goodness and the tech

696
00:31:09,822 --> 00:31:14,302
Speaker 1: platforms because the thing that's so great about podcasts is

697
00:31:14,342 --> 00:31:18,022
Speaker 1: that they're not algorithmic. At the moment, your podcast feed

698
00:31:18,102 --> 00:31:20,261
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to it, say, Spotify and Apple are

699
00:31:20,262 --> 00:31:23,181
Speaker 1: probably the two biggest platforms. Let's leave YouTube out of it.

700
00:31:23,982 --> 00:31:26,941
Speaker 1: You will see in chronological order the shows that you

701
00:31:27,022 --> 00:31:28,742
Speaker 1: follow and what they release.

702
00:31:28,862 --> 00:31:30,142
Speaker 4: You can go and have a look at charts if

703
00:31:30,182 --> 00:31:31,421
Speaker 4: you want to try to see what's trending.

704
00:31:31,542 --> 00:31:35,181
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's kept podcasts really beautiful and pure in

705
00:31:35,222 --> 00:31:37,062
Speaker 1: a way because it means that it's not just the

706
00:31:37,102 --> 00:31:40,302
Speaker 1: most extreme content that rises to the surface like it

707
00:31:40,382 --> 00:31:44,021
Speaker 1: does whenever an algorithm's introduced. But the problem with that

708
00:31:44,222 --> 00:31:47,502
Speaker 1: is that podcasts have always been hard to share and

709
00:31:47,582 --> 00:31:50,622
Speaker 1: hard for people to discover new ones because an algorithm

710
00:31:50,661 --> 00:31:52,422
Speaker 1: is not putting things into your feed that you think

711
00:31:52,462 --> 00:31:55,542
Speaker 1: you might be interested in. Now, we're not unhappy about that,

712
00:31:55,742 --> 00:31:58,302
Speaker 1: except for the part where it can be hard to

713
00:31:58,382 --> 00:32:01,622
Speaker 1: grow and get a new audience. And so that's when

714
00:32:01,982 --> 00:32:04,062
Speaker 1: you know, everything needs to be on social media. That's

715
00:32:04,102 --> 00:32:06,542
Speaker 1: the main form of marketing and pr these days, and

716
00:32:06,582 --> 00:32:09,382
Speaker 1: you need visuals to put on things like Instagram. And

717
00:32:10,222 --> 00:32:13,781
Speaker 1: so that's when everybody had to record their podcasts. And

718
00:32:13,822 --> 00:32:16,742
Speaker 1: then YouTube wanted a piece of the action, and instead

719
00:32:16,742 --> 00:32:19,062
Speaker 1: of just little snippets, people were like, well, we're already

720
00:32:19,062 --> 00:32:21,782
Speaker 1: brushing our hair and setting up cameras and editing it,

721
00:32:21,822 --> 00:32:24,142
Speaker 1: and that's already a pain in the neck an extra

722
00:32:24,182 --> 00:32:26,702
Speaker 1: at cost. We may as well do the whole thing

723
00:32:26,862 --> 00:32:29,822
Speaker 1: and chuck it on yet another platform. So that's what

724
00:32:29,862 --> 00:32:34,022
Speaker 1: we're all doing, and it's interesting because we have mixed

725
00:32:34,022 --> 00:32:36,902
Speaker 1: feelings about it. You know, if we had our way

726
00:32:37,302 --> 00:32:40,302
Speaker 1: purely from a podcasting point of view, we would prefer

727
00:32:40,342 --> 00:32:43,461
Speaker 1: to just have no cameras be in a studio because

728
00:32:43,502 --> 00:32:46,222
Speaker 1: it's more intimate. You're less conscious of how you look.

729
00:32:46,382 --> 00:32:48,701
Speaker 3: One of the things we used to particularly like about

730
00:32:48,822 --> 00:32:51,902
Speaker 3: pure audio is that it just is a fact that

731
00:32:51,982 --> 00:32:54,742
Speaker 3: as soon as you can see someone talking, you're not

732
00:32:54,862 --> 00:32:57,582
Speaker 3: just listening to them talking. You are reading a whole

733
00:32:57,582 --> 00:33:01,102
Speaker 3: lot of cues from everything you can see from clearly

734
00:33:01,142 --> 00:33:03,941
Speaker 3: what they look like, in terms of have they brushed

735
00:33:03,942 --> 00:33:05,302
Speaker 3: their hair, have they done their makeup?

736
00:33:05,342 --> 00:33:07,262
Speaker 2: What are they wearing? All the little clues, Oh, whats

737
00:33:07,302 --> 00:33:09,742
Speaker 2: that necklace? Me has got on? Oh, someone says a

738
00:33:09,782 --> 00:33:12,661
Speaker 2: bit tired today. Any TV presenter will.

739
00:33:12,542 --> 00:33:15,422
Speaker 3: Tell you that they get more feedback about what they're

740
00:33:15,422 --> 00:33:18,382
Speaker 3: wearing and how they've done their lipstick female TV presenters

741
00:33:18,862 --> 00:33:21,782
Speaker 3: than anything they ever say or report. And so there's

742
00:33:21,822 --> 00:33:25,582
Speaker 3: something wonderfully freeing about the idea that no people are

743
00:33:25,622 --> 00:33:28,782
Speaker 3: just engaging with your voice and your thoughts and your ideas.

744
00:33:29,302 --> 00:33:30,582
Speaker 2: Those days are gone.

745
00:33:31,462 --> 00:33:34,062
Speaker 3: We are now out of hiding, and I think it's

746
00:33:34,102 --> 00:33:37,102
Speaker 3: so fine like, I think it's absolutely fine, but it's

747
00:33:37,182 --> 00:33:39,462
Speaker 3: definitely a different relationship.

748
00:33:39,982 --> 00:33:43,622
Speaker 4: I reckon for women in particular, the pivot will be

749
00:33:44,262 --> 00:33:46,262
Speaker 4: to having it on in the background. I've had a

750
00:33:46,302 --> 00:33:49,582
Speaker 4: lot of women I know talk about having a podcast

751
00:33:49,661 --> 00:33:52,302
Speaker 4: up on YouTube on their television while they go and

752
00:33:52,342 --> 00:33:54,262
Speaker 4: do something else, and they're kind of listening, and they

753
00:33:54,422 --> 00:33:58,862
Speaker 4: like the familiarity of a host who's voice. They recognize

754
00:33:58,982 --> 00:34:00,982
Speaker 4: the idea that you would sit down as some sort

755
00:34:00,982 --> 00:34:03,502
Speaker 4: of appointment viewing when that show comes out. I don't

756
00:34:03,542 --> 00:34:07,582
Speaker 4: think is probably realistic, but I think it's coming really

757
00:34:07,902 --> 00:34:10,142
Speaker 4: because we saw last week and talked about it on

758
00:34:10,182 --> 00:34:13,502
Speaker 4: the show, the axing of Q and A and the Project,

759
00:34:13,542 --> 00:34:15,422
Speaker 4: and the irony is that this is the bringback of

760
00:34:15,462 --> 00:34:18,381
Speaker 4: the panel show, like we're essentially a panel show and

761
00:34:18,661 --> 00:34:21,182
Speaker 4: haven't we seen that die? And there was a really

762
00:34:21,221 --> 00:34:25,062
Speaker 4: interesting article by Walid Ali in The Age at the

763
00:34:25,102 --> 00:34:28,341
Speaker 4: end of last week about how really this pivot has

764
00:34:28,342 --> 00:34:30,861
Speaker 4: a lot more to do with revenue than format, and

765
00:34:30,902 --> 00:34:34,701
Speaker 4: he was saying that on social media, on your TikTok, Instagram,

766
00:34:34,741 --> 00:34:38,942
Speaker 4: YouTube ads are so targeted. They've harvested so much data

767
00:34:38,982 --> 00:34:41,902
Speaker 4: about me that the ads, if I'm going to spend

768
00:34:41,942 --> 00:34:46,221
Speaker 4: money on an ad for nappies, then I want to

769
00:34:46,261 --> 00:34:48,622
Speaker 4: make sure I'm getting me who has kids in nappies.

770
00:34:48,661 --> 00:34:52,462
Speaker 4: Why would I put that on primetime television where most

771
00:34:52,502 --> 00:34:55,861
Speaker 4: of the people watching don't need nappies. And so that's

772
00:34:55,902 --> 00:34:59,221
Speaker 4: why there's more money in the kind of very targeted

773
00:34:59,622 --> 00:35:02,302
Speaker 4: social media world rather than social TV.

774
00:35:02,382 --> 00:35:07,781
Speaker 1: Commercial TV is broadcasting, and podcasts and other forms of

775
00:35:07,822 --> 00:35:10,622
Speaker 1: digital media tend to be narrow cast. So for example,

776
00:35:10,622 --> 00:35:15,142
Speaker 1: we're a podcast for women, that wouldn't be our primetime show,

777
00:35:15,221 --> 00:35:18,142
Speaker 1: and yet we are a daily show and we have

778
00:35:18,181 --> 00:35:21,422
Speaker 1: a really big audience. The other thing to note is

779
00:35:21,462 --> 00:35:24,302
Speaker 1: that it's all about choice. So we are now on YouTube.

780
00:35:24,382 --> 00:35:27,102
Speaker 1: You can watch us on YouTube, but nothing's going to change.

781
00:35:27,142 --> 00:35:29,582
Speaker 1: The podcast that you hear is going to be the same.

782
00:35:30,221 --> 00:35:33,622
Speaker 1: We don't make different creative decisions about what's in the

783
00:35:33,701 --> 00:35:37,022
Speaker 1: show because we're now had to build a studio and

784
00:35:37,022 --> 00:35:40,422
Speaker 1: do all of these things. For creators, it's more expensive

785
00:35:40,422 --> 00:35:43,102
Speaker 1: and it's harder, But for you, it's just about choice.

786
00:35:43,221 --> 00:35:44,982
Speaker 3: And so if you listen to us on Spotify, if

787
00:35:45,022 --> 00:35:47,301
Speaker 3: you listen to us on Apple, no difference at all.

788
00:35:47,422 --> 00:35:50,302
Speaker 3: You will see some podcast videos on Spotify and sometimes

789
00:35:50,342 --> 00:35:52,181
Speaker 3: I wonder, Oh, if I don't want to watch the

790
00:35:52,261 --> 00:35:55,261
Speaker 3: video because I'm always doing something else, I'm not watching them,

791
00:35:55,902 --> 00:35:58,421
Speaker 3: will it still use up my data? It won't if

792
00:35:58,462 --> 00:36:01,822
Speaker 3: you've set your settings to not download video. So nothing

793
00:36:01,942 --> 00:36:04,861
Speaker 3: changes unless you go and seek it out out loud.

794
00:36:04,902 --> 00:36:07,301
Speaker 1: As friends come into your life for a reason, a

795
00:36:07,422 --> 00:36:11,742
Speaker 1: season or a lifetime. So to podcast segments, don't worry.

796
00:36:11,862 --> 00:36:14,582
Speaker 1: The show's not going to be over, but we are

797
00:36:14,622 --> 00:36:17,261
Speaker 1: retiring a segment that we've done for a while that's

798
00:36:17,261 --> 00:36:18,742
Speaker 1: pretty popular, Best and Worst.

799
00:36:19,022 --> 00:36:21,062
Speaker 2: We are big the grounds.

800
00:36:21,102 --> 00:36:25,302
Speaker 4: I know people pissed, pissed, or maybe maybe she is going, yes,

801
00:36:25,542 --> 00:36:28,622
Speaker 4: you know what, shut the fuck up hearing about your life.

802
00:36:28,822 --> 00:36:31,062
Speaker 1: We wanted to take you into the tent and explain

803
00:36:31,181 --> 00:36:33,582
Speaker 1: to you why. And we tried once before to get

804
00:36:33,661 --> 00:36:35,502
Speaker 1: rid of Best and Worse, and there was a big outcry,

805
00:36:35,741 --> 00:36:38,102
Speaker 1: and so we brought it back. But we are actually

806
00:36:38,102 --> 00:36:40,222
Speaker 1: getting rid of it this time, or retiring it, putting

807
00:36:40,221 --> 00:36:43,181
Speaker 1: it on hiatus, and sending it out to pasta for

808
00:36:43,582 --> 00:36:47,821
Speaker 1: the following reasons. The first is probably that, as you

809
00:36:47,862 --> 00:36:51,102
Speaker 1: can understand, when you're talking about the worst thing that

810
00:36:51,181 --> 00:36:54,341
Speaker 1: happened to you in a week, it's often something that

811
00:36:54,582 --> 00:36:56,861
Speaker 1: might involve other people in your life. In fact, it

812
00:36:56,942 --> 00:37:01,261
Speaker 1: usually almost always does all things that are private. It

813
00:37:01,342 --> 00:37:03,901
Speaker 1: might be work related things, it might be health related things,

814
00:37:03,942 --> 00:37:06,461
Speaker 1: it might be relationship things, it might be things about

815
00:37:06,502 --> 00:37:10,382
Speaker 1: your kids or your parents. And for us, we have

816
00:37:10,502 --> 00:37:13,422
Speaker 1: to protect the people in our lives. But then to

817
00:37:13,542 --> 00:37:15,982
Speaker 1: say my worst of the week was that I got

818
00:37:16,022 --> 00:37:18,981
Speaker 1: a parking ticket, or that I, you know, tripped over

819
00:37:19,022 --> 00:37:21,781
Speaker 1: a coffee on my shirt, or my dogs had a fight,

820
00:37:21,982 --> 00:37:26,022
Speaker 1: and that starts to not feel true to who we are.

821
00:37:26,902 --> 00:37:29,381
Speaker 1: And then you know, it's not to say that we're

822
00:37:29,422 --> 00:37:32,221
Speaker 1: not going to be still talking about our lives on

823
00:37:32,302 --> 00:37:34,622
Speaker 1: the show. We will be, of course, but there's something

824
00:37:34,622 --> 00:37:37,742
Speaker 1: about having to choose the best thing and the worst

825
00:37:37,741 --> 00:37:40,901
Speaker 1: thing that makes it quite extreme. And I've always said also,

826
00:37:41,102 --> 00:37:43,702
Speaker 1: it's better to share from a scar, not a wound.

827
00:37:44,462 --> 00:37:47,542
Speaker 1: When it's something that's literally happening in the last few days,

828
00:37:48,261 --> 00:37:49,781
Speaker 1: you often don't even know what to say about it.

829
00:37:49,822 --> 00:37:51,142
Speaker 4: There's not a lot of wisdom to offer.

830
00:37:51,342 --> 00:37:53,502
Speaker 3: No, here's the tell of when we knew it had

831
00:37:53,502 --> 00:37:56,381
Speaker 3: to happen. Brent got a stick stuck in his had,

832
00:37:57,221 --> 00:37:59,701
Speaker 3: and my first response was, at least I've got a

833
00:37:59,741 --> 00:38:00,542
Speaker 3: worse this week.

834
00:38:02,542 --> 00:38:06,181
Speaker 4: We've all had those moments, and it was also a

835
00:38:06,181 --> 00:38:08,701
Speaker 4: low point where me or and I were jealous that

836
00:38:08,822 --> 00:38:12,661
Speaker 4: you had such and we were sitting around waiting for

837
00:38:12,661 --> 00:38:14,301
Speaker 4: a parking ticket or something so that we.

838
00:38:14,261 --> 00:38:16,102
Speaker 2: Had something to show great worst.

839
00:38:16,221 --> 00:38:19,341
Speaker 3: So sometimes it means that you're kind of curating and

840
00:38:19,382 --> 00:38:23,341
Speaker 3: relating to your life through a slightly strange So I'm

841
00:38:23,382 --> 00:38:25,142
Speaker 3: sure we're still going to talk about all kinds of stuff,

842
00:38:25,142 --> 00:38:27,062
Speaker 3: all kinds of nonsense. We're still going to keep Fridays

843
00:38:27,302 --> 00:38:30,301
Speaker 3: light and fun. Right, yep, exactly right, But no best

844
00:38:30,302 --> 00:38:34,222
Speaker 3: and worse for now after the break, we have recommendations.

845
00:38:34,302 --> 00:38:35,502
Speaker 2: We are still having recommendations.

846
00:38:35,622 --> 00:38:39,622
Speaker 3: We are still telling you on Fridays in this particular

847
00:38:39,661 --> 00:38:41,942
Speaker 3: week what to watch this weekend.

848
00:38:42,302 --> 00:38:46,302
Speaker 4: What unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday

849
00:38:46,302 --> 00:38:50,502
Speaker 4: and Thursday exclusively from Mum and Maya. Subscribers follow the

850
00:38:50,582 --> 00:38:52,421
Speaker 4: link in the show notes to get us in your

851
00:38:52,462 --> 00:38:55,301
Speaker 4: ears five days a week. And a huge thank you

852
00:38:55,422 --> 00:38:56,901
Speaker 4: to all our current subscribers.

853
00:39:03,622 --> 00:39:07,502
Speaker 5: Vibes ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun.

854
00:39:08,022 --> 00:39:09,462
Speaker 4: This is my best recommendation.

855
00:39:10,542 --> 00:39:12,701
Speaker 3: I feel like our recos this week because we've all

856
00:39:12,781 --> 00:39:15,582
Speaker 3: chosen the TV show, and I think that they are

857
00:39:15,982 --> 00:39:20,142
Speaker 3: very true to our personalities the TV shows we've chosen

858
00:39:20,181 --> 00:39:22,181
Speaker 3: this week. When we were talking about in the meeting,

859
00:39:22,221 --> 00:39:24,861
Speaker 3: I was like, that is the most Jesse recommendation of

860
00:39:24,902 --> 00:39:25,382
Speaker 3: all time.

861
00:39:25,302 --> 00:39:27,702
Speaker 4: And it's going to be everyone's favorite. Don't even matter.

862
00:39:27,982 --> 00:39:31,382
Speaker 3: Go with your recommendation of the weeklyase out louders.

863
00:39:31,701 --> 00:39:34,102
Speaker 4: I have been waiting for this documentary. It was coming

864
00:39:34,102 --> 00:39:36,062
Speaker 4: on Netflix and it landed end of last week and

865
00:39:36,102 --> 00:39:40,261
Speaker 4: it is called titan the Ocean Gates Submersible Disare. Oh okay,

866
00:39:40,302 --> 00:39:43,622
Speaker 4: it is brilliant, so it's just come out. It is

867
00:39:43,622 --> 00:39:46,341
Speaker 4: about the twenty twenty three deep sea dive in the

868
00:39:46,382 --> 00:39:49,821
Speaker 4: submersible that ultimately imploded and killed lots of peace and

869
00:39:49,982 --> 00:39:53,861
Speaker 4: it killed five people. But the reason this documentary is

870
00:39:53,862 --> 00:39:56,902
Speaker 4: so brilliant is because it is about the hubris of

871
00:39:56,942 --> 00:39:59,622
Speaker 4: the CEO, the guy who created it. He had a

872
00:39:59,701 --> 00:40:02,582
Speaker 4: vision and saw himself as an Elon Musk, as a

873
00:40:02,622 --> 00:40:04,102
Speaker 4: Jeff Bezos type.

874
00:40:04,822 --> 00:40:05,622
Speaker 3: There was no way of.

875
00:40:05,582 --> 00:40:08,901
Speaker 6: Knowing where title was going to fail, but it was a.

876
00:40:08,862 --> 00:40:10,942
Speaker 3: Mathematical certainty that it would fail.

877
00:40:14,542 --> 00:40:18,502
Speaker 1: Stockton saw an opportunity to restart tourist physics to.

878
00:40:18,462 --> 00:40:22,701
Speaker 2: Titanic Stockton fully believed in what he was doing and

879
00:40:22,781 --> 00:40:26,421
Speaker 2: that it would work. He wanted to fame to fuel

880
00:40:26,462 --> 00:40:29,062
Speaker 2: his his ego theme, I have.

881
00:40:29,102 --> 00:40:30,422
Speaker 3: No desire to die.

882
00:40:33,102 --> 00:40:34,622
Speaker 5: I understand this.

883
00:40:34,582 --> 00:40:35,221
Speaker 1: Kind of risk.

884
00:40:35,701 --> 00:40:38,502
Speaker 6: I thought Stockton was a borderline psychopath. How do you

885
00:40:38,542 --> 00:40:41,341
Speaker 6: manage a person like that who owns the company.

886
00:40:42,022 --> 00:40:44,341
Speaker 4: It is the story of the descent of a lot

887
00:40:44,342 --> 00:40:48,942
Speaker 4: of his employees who were raising the alarm and saying,

888
00:40:48,982 --> 00:40:51,981
Speaker 4: I'm not comfortable with this. And what's fascinating is that

889
00:40:52,462 --> 00:40:55,181
Speaker 4: he got in it against the advice of everyone. He

890
00:40:55,261 --> 00:40:58,622
Speaker 4: would go down four thousand feet however deep. He wanted

891
00:40:58,661 --> 00:41:00,142
Speaker 4: to test it, and they were like, don't put a

892
00:41:00,221 --> 00:41:01,941
Speaker 4: human in it. Just send it down, but don't put

893
00:41:01,942 --> 00:41:03,502
Speaker 4: someone in it. And he would do it because of

894
00:41:03,582 --> 00:41:07,261
Speaker 4: his own ridiculous sort of ego, or also.

895
00:41:07,181 --> 00:41:10,382
Speaker 1: That he just could not understand risk very well.

896
00:41:10,422 --> 00:41:12,861
Speaker 4: And it did seem that way right And I won't

897
00:41:12,862 --> 00:41:14,062
Speaker 4: give away too much.

898
00:41:13,942 --> 00:41:15,261
Speaker 1: But we know how it ended well.

899
00:41:15,302 --> 00:41:17,821
Speaker 4: One of the most fascinating details, though, is that this

900
00:41:17,902 --> 00:41:20,661
Speaker 4: submersible was being made with carbon fiber, which had never

901
00:41:20,701 --> 00:41:23,301
Speaker 4: been done before. And if you can make a submersible

902
00:41:23,302 --> 00:41:27,341
Speaker 4: with a material that is cheaper and lighter, big deal. Right,

903
00:41:28,062 --> 00:41:30,062
Speaker 4: but what was happening and you can hear it the

904
00:41:30,142 --> 00:41:32,542
Speaker 4: amount of footage that they have. They always had go pros,

905
00:41:32,582 --> 00:41:33,741
Speaker 4: they had a videographer with them.

906
00:41:34,142 --> 00:41:35,781
Speaker 2: And there's all that in the documentary.

907
00:41:36,022 --> 00:41:38,301
Speaker 4: You can see down there. You can see what the

908
00:41:38,302 --> 00:41:39,262
Speaker 4: submersible looks.

909
00:41:39,102 --> 00:41:41,142
Speaker 2: Like, the six of that in terms of the people

910
00:41:41,181 --> 00:41:41,701
Speaker 2: who are down.

911
00:41:41,781 --> 00:41:44,142
Speaker 4: So they don't have any footage from that one. They

912
00:41:44,142 --> 00:41:46,741
Speaker 4: have footage from the other kind of dives that they did.

913
00:41:47,102 --> 00:41:50,662
Speaker 4: But what you would hear is popping, really loud popping,

914
00:41:51,062 --> 00:41:53,542
Speaker 4: and it was the sound of the carbon fiber breaking

915
00:41:54,221 --> 00:41:56,582
Speaker 4: and everyone was going, you know, we know how this

916
00:41:56,661 --> 00:41:59,301
Speaker 4: is going to end. And so when these former employees

917
00:41:59,342 --> 00:42:02,102
Speaker 4: saw the story, they knew exactly what had happened. The

918
00:42:02,261 --> 00:42:04,981
Speaker 4: narrative is great and it is just a really well done,

919
00:42:05,102 --> 00:42:08,262
Speaker 4: well produced documentary. You have to watch it. It's on Netflix.

920
00:42:08,502 --> 00:42:09,422
Speaker 2: Are you going to be watching that?

921
00:42:10,822 --> 00:42:12,301
Speaker 1: No, I'm not going.

922
00:42:12,261 --> 00:42:14,182
Speaker 4: To Maya, but different.

923
00:42:14,221 --> 00:42:15,262
Speaker 2: It makes for different.

924
00:42:15,622 --> 00:42:17,661
Speaker 4: It made me like you more. Can I tell you why?

925
00:42:17,822 --> 00:42:18,022
Speaker 1: Why?

926
00:42:18,462 --> 00:42:22,861
Speaker 2: Because I thought she wouldn't.

927
00:42:23,022 --> 00:42:27,462
Speaker 4: Mayor has had some mad ideas, but none of them

928
00:42:27,741 --> 00:42:30,942
Speaker 4: involve a submersible. No, don't get me wrong. If you

929
00:42:31,022 --> 00:42:33,381
Speaker 4: made submersibles, I think you probably would make us get

930
00:42:33,382 --> 00:42:36,422
Speaker 4: into one and go come on, guys.

931
00:42:35,382 --> 00:42:37,062
Speaker 2: Great content, do it for the ground.

932
00:42:37,102 --> 00:42:38,901
Speaker 4: And sometimes you make us do unusual things.

933
00:42:38,902 --> 00:42:41,741
Speaker 2: I've had to do some TikTok dancing out. Wasn't that

934
00:42:41,822 --> 00:42:42,742
Speaker 2: keen on exactly?

935
00:42:42,822 --> 00:42:44,861
Speaker 4: Stakes are a bit lower exactly? And I went, you

936
00:42:44,902 --> 00:42:47,302
Speaker 4: know what, I appreciate that. I turned to Luca Mayor,

937
00:42:47,342 --> 00:42:48,542
Speaker 4: isn't that bad after all?

938
00:42:49,382 --> 00:42:53,462
Speaker 1: So true? She may not understand risk, but she wouldn't

939
00:42:53,462 --> 00:42:54,701
Speaker 1: put us in a submersible.

940
00:42:55,862 --> 00:42:56,502
Speaker 2: Wasn't safe.

941
00:42:57,542 --> 00:43:00,781
Speaker 1: I've got something very, very different to watch after that

942
00:43:00,822 --> 00:43:02,661
Speaker 1: has sent you into a spiral of despair. No, I

943
00:43:02,701 --> 00:43:04,622
Speaker 1: actually thought about watching that because it does look really,

944
00:43:04,661 --> 00:43:07,622
Speaker 1: really interesting. I just am finding the news is so

945
00:43:07,661 --> 00:43:11,062
Speaker 1: bleak at the moment. I just want to have a laugh.

946
00:43:11,622 --> 00:43:14,382
Speaker 1: And I started watching a show that kept being served

947
00:43:14,382 --> 00:43:20,422
Speaker 1: to me on Prime Video. It's called over Compensating.

948
00:43:20,701 --> 00:43:22,062
Speaker 2: Welcome to College.

949
00:43:24,422 --> 00:43:27,022
Speaker 4: You can be whoever you want to be here can

950
00:43:27,902 --> 00:43:31,022
Speaker 4: I'm Benny Cormen, I'm a man Innx's cousin.

951
00:43:33,502 --> 00:43:42,662
Speaker 6: How the freshman ladies treat me? Either you're a dude?

952
00:43:42,661 --> 00:43:51,502
Speaker 1: Who or? And it's written, directed, and stars a guy

953
00:43:51,542 --> 00:43:55,582
Speaker 1: called Benito's Skinner who's like His name on Instagram is

954
00:43:55,582 --> 00:43:58,181
Speaker 1: Benny Drama. He's a thirty one year old actor and

955
00:43:58,221 --> 00:44:01,982
Speaker 1: comedian and he wrote this story that's pretty much exactly

956
00:44:02,022 --> 00:44:04,821
Speaker 1: based on him. But it's fiction about a guy who

957
00:44:04,862 --> 00:44:07,982
Speaker 1: goes to college and he's like a jock and captain

958
00:44:08,022 --> 00:44:11,981
Speaker 1: of the football team, and he's gay and he's closeted, and

959
00:44:12,622 --> 00:44:16,301
Speaker 1: he meets this girl who's got her own story and

960
00:44:17,022 --> 00:44:19,661
Speaker 1: they become really close friends after trying to hook up,

961
00:44:19,741 --> 00:44:23,062
Speaker 1: and she helps him try to navigate coming out. Makes

962
00:44:23,062 --> 00:44:24,741
Speaker 1: it sound really serious, but it's not at all. It's

963
00:44:24,741 --> 00:44:28,142
Speaker 1: actually hilarious. The whole thing is really really funny. I

964
00:44:28,261 --> 00:44:31,861
Speaker 1: just loved it. Short episodes, yeah, short episodes. There's a

965
00:44:31,862 --> 00:44:35,582
Speaker 1: great supporting cast. They're juggling horrible hookups, flavored vodka, fake id's.

966
00:44:35,622 --> 00:44:37,982
Speaker 1: It's kind of like almost you don't know what period

967
00:44:38,022 --> 00:44:40,502
Speaker 1: of time it's set in, Like it's set in now,

968
00:44:40,862 --> 00:44:45,862
Speaker 1: in an American college, but it's also like a time before.

969
00:44:46,022 --> 00:44:48,102
Speaker 1: Like sometimes you can think, oh, everyone can come out,

970
00:44:48,142 --> 00:44:50,982
Speaker 1: like ben queer is cool and it's no big deal anymore,

971
00:44:51,022 --> 00:44:52,422
Speaker 1: but it actually is a big deal for a lot

972
00:44:52,422 --> 00:44:55,062
Speaker 1: of people, and everybody has a different story about how

973
00:44:55,102 --> 00:44:57,821
Speaker 1: they come out. And this one's just great. It's just

974
00:44:57,862 --> 00:45:00,902
Speaker 1: such a fun show, overcompensating on Prime video.

975
00:45:01,902 --> 00:45:04,022
Speaker 3: So I'm not actually here right now. I am so

976
00:45:04,142 --> 00:45:06,582
Speaker 3: obsessed with this TV show that I have just discovered

977
00:45:06,622 --> 00:45:08,821
Speaker 3: that I am currently rolling around on a sandy beach

978
00:45:08,862 --> 00:45:11,662
Speaker 3: with a really handsome hunter who can slay a dragon

979
00:45:11,701 --> 00:45:12,542
Speaker 3: with his bare hands.

980
00:45:12,542 --> 00:45:15,301
Speaker 2: Not a dragon, a lion. A lion with his bare hand.

981
00:45:15,422 --> 00:45:17,302
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I've not heard of these.

982
00:45:17,181 --> 00:45:18,741
Speaker 2: Harry P. Ruster, is what I'm talking about.

983
00:45:18,822 --> 00:45:22,942
Speaker 3: She's nodding, because I have recently discovered my first show

984
00:45:23,102 --> 00:45:25,701
Speaker 3: in the Yellowstone Universe. Do you know what I'm talking about?

985
00:45:25,822 --> 00:45:29,062
Speaker 4: Yes, Yellowstone, everyone who watches says is brilliant, But I

986
00:45:29,102 --> 00:45:30,222
Speaker 4: didn't know there was a universe.

987
00:45:30,261 --> 00:45:31,781
Speaker 3: This guy, I don't know a lot about him is

988
00:45:31,781 --> 00:45:33,902
Speaker 3: called Taylor Sheridan. His politics might be a little dodgy,

989
00:45:33,902 --> 00:45:35,542
Speaker 3: so we won't go too deep into that, but he

990
00:45:35,622 --> 00:45:39,741
Speaker 3: has created Yellowstone, which is this massive smash for paramount

991
00:45:39,781 --> 00:45:41,661
Speaker 3: that stars Kevin Costner, and it's been It's one of

992
00:45:41,701 --> 00:45:45,261
Speaker 3: the most watched shows in the world, absolutely huge on

993
00:45:45,302 --> 00:45:49,381
Speaker 3: a ranch and so popular that it now has spin offs.

994
00:45:49,382 --> 00:45:52,022
Speaker 3: It has one I think it's called nineteen eighteen or something.

995
00:45:52,062 --> 00:45:54,022
Speaker 3: And the one that I have started watching at the

996
00:45:54,022 --> 00:45:57,342
Speaker 3: recommendation of a friend specifically because of this love story

997
00:45:57,342 --> 00:45:59,982
Speaker 3: at the heart of it, is called nineteen twenty three.

998
00:46:01,622 --> 00:46:05,102
Speaker 6: You've been missus Dutton, though he would seems we're neighbors,

999
00:46:05,221 --> 00:46:09,902
Speaker 6: have acquired the Stafford Ranch. Well, this is the yellow

1000
00:46:09,902 --> 00:46:16,182
Speaker 6: Stone and you have no rights here, jegab you can't

1001
00:46:16,221 --> 00:46:19,062
Speaker 6: start a range war. Range wars already started.

1002
00:46:21,622 --> 00:46:22,582
Speaker 5: How much you'll ide you on?

1003
00:46:23,822 --> 00:46:26,902
Speaker 6: I want the whole valley.

1004
00:46:27,542 --> 00:46:30,542
Speaker 2: Either we take this fight to them or it's common.

1005
00:46:30,502 --> 00:46:35,302
Speaker 6: Us men kill quick with a bullet or a nurse,

1006
00:46:35,862 --> 00:46:39,701
Speaker 6: but they're fighters with me, and I kill much slower.

1007
00:46:40,022 --> 00:46:42,381
Speaker 3: Is that when it's set, it's set in nineteen twenty three.

1008
00:46:42,382 --> 00:46:44,942
Speaker 3: It'd be weird if it was it Jesse in between

1009
00:46:44,982 --> 00:46:49,181
Speaker 3: the wars, right, And it's about this family in Montana,

1010
00:46:49,422 --> 00:46:52,301
Speaker 3: the patriarch matriarchy, Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren. So we're

1011
00:46:52,302 --> 00:46:54,582
Speaker 3: not fucking about here, We're not fucking about Wow, we

1012
00:46:54,661 --> 00:46:58,102
Speaker 3: are top tiering it, right. Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren

1013
00:46:58,181 --> 00:47:00,422
Speaker 3: are the people on the ranch who like that. And

1014
00:47:00,502 --> 00:47:02,462
Speaker 3: you know it's under threat from a mining company and

1015
00:47:02,462 --> 00:47:05,221
Speaker 3: there's all this stuff going on. They want their long

1016
00:47:05,261 --> 00:47:07,582
Speaker 3: lost nephew to come back and help them defend the

1017
00:47:07,661 --> 00:47:10,901
Speaker 3: legacy because he is a tough guy. He traumatized by

1018
00:47:10,902 --> 00:47:13,781
Speaker 3: World War One, is now in Africa where he is

1019
00:47:13,862 --> 00:47:17,781
Speaker 3: paid to go and kill man eating lions and leopards, right,

1020
00:47:18,142 --> 00:47:21,262
Speaker 3: Could there be a more manly job than that? No, anyway,

1021
00:47:21,302 --> 00:47:23,022
Speaker 3: So we go to Africa, we meet him. He's called

1022
00:47:23,062 --> 00:47:26,741
Speaker 3: Spencer Dunne. He's played by this guy called Brandon Sclennar

1023
00:47:27,022 --> 00:47:29,622
Speaker 3: and I had never met him before, but now he's

1024
00:47:29,661 --> 00:47:30,382
Speaker 3: all I think about.

1025
00:47:30,542 --> 00:47:33,181
Speaker 2: He was apparel if the good guy in it ends

1026
00:47:33,221 --> 00:47:33,622
Speaker 2: with us?

1027
00:47:33,741 --> 00:47:35,382
Speaker 4: Oh gorgeous, Yeah.

1028
00:47:35,382 --> 00:47:39,502
Speaker 3: Unbelievably gorgeous. And he meets this young english woman blah

1029
00:47:39,502 --> 00:47:41,261
Speaker 3: blah blah. Anyway, we don't need to know any more

1030
00:47:41,302 --> 00:47:46,181
Speaker 3: details except that their chemistry you know. Sometimes and maybe

1031
00:47:46,181 --> 00:47:47,862
Speaker 3: this is just me, but I remember now all the

1032
00:47:47,862 --> 00:47:49,582
Speaker 3: way back to being a kid, that you'd watched some

1033
00:47:50,062 --> 00:47:53,302
Speaker 3: shows where the chemistry between a couple was so amazing

1034
00:47:53,342 --> 00:47:54,021
Speaker 3: it just like.

1035
00:47:54,142 --> 00:47:55,221
Speaker 2: Swept you up in it.

1036
00:47:55,261 --> 00:47:55,982
Speaker 4: Is it humpy?

1037
00:47:56,221 --> 00:47:56,862
Speaker 2: It's humpy?

1038
00:47:56,982 --> 00:47:57,221
Speaker 1: Yes?

1039
00:47:57,221 --> 00:47:59,381
Speaker 3: In there having these two people are having a lot

1040
00:47:59,422 --> 00:48:03,422
Speaker 3: of great sex. But they're not having a lot of

1041
00:48:03,422 --> 00:48:06,301
Speaker 3: great sex. Some other people in the house are but

1042
00:48:06,741 --> 00:48:09,781
Speaker 3: our friend Spencer and his fancy English lady Alex having

1043
00:48:09,822 --> 00:48:12,462
Speaker 3: a lot of great sex. But it's not corny like

1044
00:48:12,542 --> 00:48:15,142
Speaker 3: it's what they call closed door sex, right, So you

1045
00:48:15,181 --> 00:48:17,742
Speaker 3: see everything leaving offit disappointed a little bit. His shirt's

1046
00:48:17,741 --> 00:48:21,622
Speaker 3: off a lot though. There's also this very distressing subplot

1047
00:48:21,661 --> 00:48:24,422
Speaker 3: going on that's about Indigenous Americans who've been taken from

1048
00:48:24,462 --> 00:48:27,302
Speaker 3: their families and are in a brutal school run by nuns.

1049
00:48:27,382 --> 00:48:30,982
Speaker 3: Sounds familiar to Australian viewers, and I've just found myself

1050
00:48:31,502 --> 00:48:34,022
Speaker 3: completely swept up in it and it's all I want

1051
00:48:34,062 --> 00:48:34,221
Speaker 3: to do.

1052
00:48:34,302 --> 00:48:35,102
Speaker 4: I've sold me on it.

1053
00:48:35,181 --> 00:48:36,622
Speaker 3: I want to go back and I want to watch

1054
00:48:36,661 --> 00:48:39,382
Speaker 3: these people do whatever they're doing. And I don't really

1055
00:48:39,382 --> 00:48:41,181
Speaker 3: want Harrison Ford to keep his rent because he's a

1056
00:48:41,221 --> 00:48:44,022
Speaker 3: bit of a dick, but I really really want my

1057
00:48:44,062 --> 00:48:45,622
Speaker 3: matexpense anyway, So that was a sity.

1058
00:48:45,622 --> 00:48:48,262
Speaker 2: I'm only in season one, so don't actually anyhow it happens.

1059
00:48:48,382 --> 00:48:49,181
Speaker 2: There are two.

1060
00:48:48,942 --> 00:48:51,542
Speaker 3: Seasons and the second one just dropped, so it's called

1061
00:48:51,622 --> 00:48:52,421
Speaker 3: nineteen twenty three.

1062
00:48:52,462 --> 00:48:53,661
Speaker 2: It's on Paramount Plus.

1063
00:48:53,942 --> 00:48:56,821
Speaker 3: It's part of the Yellowstone thing and I am now

1064
00:48:56,822 --> 00:48:57,822
Speaker 3: officially obsessed.

1065
00:48:57,982 --> 00:49:01,102
Speaker 1: That's like when I got really into Downton Abbey and Bridgington. Yes,

1066
00:49:01,382 --> 00:49:05,022
Speaker 1: because the steaks, it just felt so otherworldly. No one

1067
00:49:05,062 --> 00:49:08,221
Speaker 1: had phones, and the Gilded Age is coming back too.

1068
00:49:08,701 --> 00:49:09,982
Speaker 1: I'm very excited about it.

1069
00:49:10,022 --> 00:49:12,782
Speaker 3: Is interesting because I'm not I'm not always a historical

1070
00:49:12,862 --> 00:49:16,181
Speaker 3: drama person, but sometimes you know, you just get so

1071
00:49:16,302 --> 00:49:17,942
Speaker 3: swept up in it and maybe you need it at

1072
00:49:17,942 --> 00:49:22,502
Speaker 3: that time or whatever. But it's an escape, a proper escape. Anyway,

1073
00:49:22,542 --> 00:49:25,341
Speaker 3: I'm loving it and that's my Raco. That is all

1074
00:49:25,342 --> 00:49:27,661
Speaker 3: we've got time for today, out louders, thank you for

1075
00:49:27,781 --> 00:49:30,102
Speaker 3: being with us this week. As always, We're going to

1076
00:49:30,102 --> 00:49:32,261
Speaker 3: be back in your ears on Monday, of course, Jesse

1077
00:49:32,342 --> 00:49:34,622
Speaker 3: and Mia. What else have we got to tell everybody.

1078
00:49:34,261 --> 00:49:37,102
Speaker 4: A big thank you to our team group executive producer

1079
00:49:37,261 --> 00:49:41,781
Speaker 4: Ruth Devine, executive producer Emmeline Gazillis, our audio producer is

1080
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Speaker 4: Leah Porges, video.

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Speaker 1: Producer Josh Green, our junior content producers Coco and Tessa,

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Speaker 1: and our studios at Muma Mea are styled with furniture

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00:49:49,741 --> 00:49:52,822
Speaker 1: from Fenton and Fenton. Visit Fenton and Fenton dot com

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00:49:52,862 --> 00:49:56,102
Speaker 1: dot au. Before we go, I want to give everyone

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Speaker 1: a little treat with another recommendation. I want to play

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Speaker 1: us out with a beautiful song by a very dear

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Speaker 1: friend of mine that's come out this week. It's pure

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Speaker 1: weekend vibes. Her name is Jackie Oberg. She's talented and brilliant.

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Speaker 1: Here is her So if I could beat my silhouette,

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Speaker 1: We'll put a link in the show notes if you're

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Speaker 1: listening on Spotify.

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Speaker 4: Bye bye bye.

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Speaker 1: Be alone, shy love, whom I do you?

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Speaker 2: If I could only be mysel? Would I still be

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Speaker 2: too much?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 5: You love?

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00:50:41,382 --> 00:50:42,462
Speaker 4: Memory?

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Speaker 2: Would let you my.

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Speaker 1: Jesus really love. Shout out to any MoMA Maya subscribers listening.

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Speaker 1: If you love the show and want to support us

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00:50:59,741 --> 00:51:02,261
Speaker 1: as well, subscribing to Mom and Maya is the very

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00:51:02,302 --> 00:51:04,261
Speaker 1: best way to do so. There is a link in

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Speaker 1: the episode description