WEBVTT - Jessica Rowe On The Brutal Public Humiliation That Changed Her Forever 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:06.520 I got sacked on Maternityly, jess you didn't get sacked, 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:15.920 you got boned the I cannot stand that word, and 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:20.080 I wish people wouldn't use it because I find it 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:21.119 so offensive. 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:23.560 It has really stuck though. 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:24.239 Hi. 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:27.640 I'm kateline Brook and my guest on No Filter today 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.800 is Jessica Rowe. Jess has spent much of her life 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:34.680 in the public eye as a journalist and TV presenter. 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:39.400 She delivered the news into Australian homes for decades, but 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:44.559 she also became the story. She was criticized for her 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:50.920 laugh her appearance, her personality. She was publicly humiliated during 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.920 what became one of the most difficult periods of her life. 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:58.000 She became the face of a media storm that years 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:03.120 later still resonates with women across the country. But what 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:07.959 fascinates me about Jessica isn't what happened to her. It's 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:13.360 who she became afterwards. Because somewhere along the way, Jessica 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:17.560 stopped trying to be perfect. She stopped apologizing for taking 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:21.880 up space, She started snorting again when she laughed. She 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:27.360 stopped shrinking herself to make other people comfortable. Today, she's 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:31.640 one of Australia's most recognizable advocates for mental health, the 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:37.800 creator of the wildly successful Crap Housewife movement, a podcaster, author, 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:44.280 mother wife, and perhaps most importantly, she's entirely herself. 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:52.680 This is Jessica Rowe, jess Row, Welcome to lay Filter. Ah, 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:55.800 you too. 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:58.520 I think this is a conversation that's been a long 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:02.560 time coming, because it seems to me that you've been 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:08.400 such a presence in our media lives for a long time. 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:16.239 But I haven't heard a lot of you on your podcast, 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:22.000 which is great. I love some big talk. It's about 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:26.640 the other person. This is about you, and you've not 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:30.800 always been a person that puts yourself forward first. 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:34.800 Wow, that's very say each of you. 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.400 I think to say that because I'm someone who I 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:42.080 think I'm never good at putting myself first. No, you 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.960 don't seem like you are. I always look after everyone 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:50.240 else around me. So it's an interesting question I think 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:54.600 that you ask, and I think it's an interesting time 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:58.200 that I'm at in my life now right, I'm fifty six. 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:00.720 You just had a birthday. Happy birthday, thank you. 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:04.400 And I mean I love getting older, I really do. 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:07.079 And I know some people say, oh, what do you love? 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:12.120 Because I'm more comfortable with who I am right and 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:17.519 I'm a far happier person now than I was as 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:21.160 a teenager, as a twenty something, as a thirty something, 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:23.720 and really probably as a forty something year old. 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:30.160 I feel that I'm coming more into my own You know, 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.600 when you say you're more comfortable with who you are? 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:37.839 Who are you? I am? You know what? I am? 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:49.800 Quirky, eccentric, messy, funny, compassionate, warm, and am passionate about 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:55.880 the people in my life. I'm someone who is unapologetic 0:03:56.040 --> 0:04:03.520 about chasing joy. I want to surround myself more and 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:07.280 more with good people, and I want to do things 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:11.360 in my life that fill me up as opposed to 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.360 deplete you yeah, or things that you feel that you 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:18.800 have to do. What's interesting about you that I never 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:24.000 knew was that you've almost got an old fashioned start 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:27.920 to the business in that you were a receptionist at 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:32.480 Channel nine, a receptionist at the Wide World of Sports. 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:37.880 Really I I did a journalism degree at Bathurst at 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:43.000 what was called Mitchell College became Charlestad University. Loved it, 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:46.279 absolutely loved it. Because I'd grown up in Sydney. I 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:49.840 was very much a city girl, and I've had this 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:54.600 opportunity to move to study and I was nervous because 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:57.760 it was a big step. It was brand new living 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.520 in the country and I'm so glad I did it. 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:03.560 So I had a ball at Uni. I took a 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:05.760 year off. Actually I took two years off because I 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:09.640 deferred my first year, studied for two years, took another 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:13.200 year off and traveled, and then it was really hard 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.920 to get back to finish my degree. And I remember 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:21.200 my mom's the probably but I remember Mum sage me. Now, Jessica, 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:25.640 you do realize that most prisoners escape from jail when 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:29.080 their parole, their parole is almost about to appear. Do 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.760 not escape, you know you've done so much. 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.200 I'm so glad I went back to finish my degree. 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:39.680 And I realized though, because I had done quite a 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:43.159 lot of work experience over that time, and I knew 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:44.520 I just had to get a start. 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:47.840 And that start was a receptionist. 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:53.479 Like I sent out video VHS tapes. This was in 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:59.080 the days of your VHS tapes and of me networks 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:03.239 or works still all sorts, you know, to news rooms 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:07.640 all around Australia, and then and cover letters and then 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.760 I got a sort of a job as a receptionist. 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:12.360 I thought, well, you know what, I'm going to take this. 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:16.400 It's a start, because someone had said to me early on, 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:19.480 take whatever job you can get, doesn't matter what it is, 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:21.559 get your foot in the door. And once you're there, 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:25.760 then you'll meet people, and also you'll work out if 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:28.400 you really like it, is this what you want to 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:31.799 be doing. So I remember, though I was the world's 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:38.200 worst receptionist. I'm not surprised because I'm not organized. And 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:42.919 I got flustered. And this was again like phones that 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:45.560 you'd have to push for runs connect people. 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:48.599 And I would hang up on people all the time. 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.840 And I knew nothing about sport. I hate cricket. I 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:53.400 still hate cricket. It's so boring. 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:55.000 I love Formula one. 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:58.440 Now I didn't at the time appreciate it, but there'd 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:01.680 be people ringing up wanting the latest results on this 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.560 and that and yeah, so that that was my very 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:05.120 first job. 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:07.920 And yet you must have been there was something about 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:11.040 you which must have been your personality, because it certainly 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:13.560 wasn't your your technical prowess. 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.280 Well, I think, yeah, perhaps it was my willingness to 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:20.640 just give it a go, and I was enthusiastic. I've 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:26.320 always been an enthusiast for life, and I think that's important. 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:28.880 I don't know where, Well, where did that come from? 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:32.200 My what was your upbringing? Where were you what was 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.440 your family? And who were you in the family. 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:35.679 I was the eldest. 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:41.160 My parents divorce when I was younger, and yes, I 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:44.880 was the eldest. So I was very much the capable one, 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.000 the tap answer of the real you were. 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:49.440 The cave Yes, I was. Can you believe it? Well, 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:50.280 you see, you know what. 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.320 It's funny you say that, cake because I'm a lot 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:57.520 of life skills I'm not capable at, but the big 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:02.600 things I am very capable. So I'm capable in the 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:07.600 emotional matters. But when it comes to oh my god, 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:11.960 I've got to pay this bill, or I've got registered, Yes, 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.160 I've got to register the car, like what, I don't 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:15.840 know how to do that. 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.760 I'm not I'm not capable in that way. 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:24.920 So when you so after being a receptionist, who noticed you? 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:30.040 Well, what I did when I was a receptionist on 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:32.920 the weekends, I was what was called a production assistant, 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:38.160 which essentially meant running around with paper scripts for the presenters. 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:41.800 So I was wearing overalls cater but like you're wears, 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:46.400 running the scripts around and there was a particular producer 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:49.680 and I was chatting to him about what I wanted 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:53.120 to do, and he said to me, why don't you 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:56.400 put your voice on this script and we'll just put 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.040 it to air because at the time with the Whiteboard 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.800 of Sports that they had enormous programming on the weekends. 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:06.120 There was Sports Sunday Wide, World of Sports, there was 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:07.280 sports updates. 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:12.040 So I remember it was the Stall Gift, which is 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:12.800 like the. 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:18.520 Race in the Race Yes, which I still All I 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:20.960 know about the Stall Gift is that was my very 0:09:21.000 --> 0:09:26.040 first voiceover, and so this particular producer said to me, 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:29.120 let's do it, and so I put it down and 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:35.000 they ran it on a news update and on the Tuesday, 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.680 no it was the Wednesday, because we get Monday Tuesday 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:40.760 off because we work weekends. My boss called me in 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.600 and said, along with the producer, I want to talk 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:47.040 to you about this. And I thought, oh, no, I'm 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:49.720 in trouble. And he said, I heard your voice on 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:55.080 the weekend. I was pleasantly surprised. I went yes, and 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:58.400 then he said, oh, you can keep doing that. 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.479 So that was you're entree a beginning. 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:07.320 But at the same token, I knew I was not 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:12.040 a sportsperson and that wasn't going to be where I 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:14.760 would keep working in the sense of I thought, well, 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:15.520 here's my foot. 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:16.720 I've got my foot in the door. 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:20.960 And I was still sending out VHS tapes to people, 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:22.599 and I. 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:23.040 Ended up. 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:28.280 Getting an interview with a beautiful man called Ken Beg 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:32.840 who became a mentor of mine. And he was working 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:36.680 in Canberra and he was head of the newsroom for 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:41.640 Prime Television and he'd been a longtime Channel seven political 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:45.560 reporter but he was now a news director and I 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:49.760 happened he happened to see my VHS tape and he 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:55.200 was looking for a weather presenter ah, and he got 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:58.679 in touch with me, flew me down for an interview, 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:03.640 and I mean a few things didn't happen in terms 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.559 of someone else got the job, but in the end 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:10.160 this particular person couldn't take the job. So Ken got 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:13.320 back in touch with me and said, I'd really like 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:16.400 you to have this role. So I went down to 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:20.440 Canberra and I became I was a weather presenter and 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:26.360 a reporter and it was the best possible job because Ken, 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.240 I think if I didn't have him as a mentor, 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:34.960 I wouldn't have stayed in television because he believed in me. 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:40.600 He gave me confidence, he let me make mistakes. I 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:45.280 remember doing her because I was like anyone when you 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:49.560 first begin, you are not you have a lot to learn, yes, 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:52.720 And I remember my darling like grandmother saying to me, 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:57.679 because she had copies of my early weather reports, Darling, 0:11:57.720 --> 0:11:58.520 you weren't very good? 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:00.800 Were you quite terrible? 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:04.040 And I was like, actually, you're right, I wasn't very 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:05.480 good because you had never done it. 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:06.880 I've never done it before. 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:09.719 But I remember with Ken there was a particular night 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.760 where because the weather for people who don't know so 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:18.040 is often that's the stop gap with Sometimes you don't 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:20.040 have much time, other times you've got. 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:20.680 A lot of time. 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:25.520 That's where they cushion time wise, whatever's happening in the bulletin. 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.079 Yes, right, so sometimes you've got a lot of time, 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:31.960 other times nothing. And this particular evening, a whole lot 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:34.120 of stories had fallen over, so I had a lot 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:39.760 to do. And but when you get nervous, you speak quickly. 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:44.320 And I remember Ken coming into the studio and I'll 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:46.680 never forget it. I was like looking down the barrel 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:50.080 of the camera talking and he was just off camera 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:54.800 and he was there going like this to me, slow down, Yeah, 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:59.600 it's okay. So he had me and he did that 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:04.240 a number of times for me during those years, and 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:09.040 so it allowed me to breathe and to believe in myself. 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:14.760 And also beautiful Melissa Doyle was the newsreader and Meil 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:18.280 was wonderful because she had had more experience than me, 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:22.240 and she took me under her wing as well and 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:24.760 gave me tips about because as well as doing the 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.880 weather each night, I was doing two or three news 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.559 stories a day, so it was a lot of work. 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.600 And so she helped me with things to keep in 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:36.640 mind when you're going out interviewing people and you've got 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:40.679 to turn it around quickly. So there was a number 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:45.880 of people who were very kind and also just just 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:49.160 looked out for me. Right. So it was a great start. 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:53.400 And you also had this work ethic, Yes, of course 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.520 I did. I was ambitious and I still am ambitious. 0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:03.040 And I think as women sometimes especially that time when 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:07.000 you're younger and in those decades, it's not a you're 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:11.000 not encouraged to be ambitious or you can't own that's right, 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:16.440 you have to act like la la la whatever. Yes, yes, yes, yes, 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:21.680 And I knew that I wanted to be someone. 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.200 What did you want at that point? Like, what would 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.520 have been the dream? Was it what you ended up 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:28.600 doing on the Today Show? 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.680 Well, I think my dreams changed over time, and I 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.040 think as you grow through life, what you think you 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:40.280 want isn't actually what you want, And so yes, I 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:45.760 think definitely, then my dream would have been to be 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:51.080 on the Telly in a sort of a national role, 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:54.760 in a significant role, you know what. At the beginning, 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:58.920 when I was in high school and then doing as 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:01.960 a receptionist, I think I would have I wanted to 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:03.640 be an overseas correspondent. 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:09.240 Oh, I had dream years of that, but then flat jacket. 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:13.160 Well yes, but then I helmet Yeah, all of that. 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:17.360 But then I had girlfriends who would just laugh and go, no, yeah, 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.240 that's that's not you. 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:23.560 But and the same beautiful girlfriends. 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:26.920 One of them now works at UNHCR and I used 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.920 to at UNI. I'd buy I spend my money on shoes, 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.120 and I'd have no money left for the week for food, 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:34.800 and so I'd go around to her. 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:40.760 House and she'd feed me. That was the start of 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:42.720 her do gooding, and it was. 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.400 But also it was kind of this sort of difference 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:47.360 of I had in mind that's. 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.560 What I wanted to do, but really is that what 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:51.440 I wanted to do? 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:54.440 And then you ended up being a news reader? Yeah, 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:56.920 then I ended up so yeah, I did the weather. 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:01.040 Then I moved to Melbourne where I was a reporter 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:07.080 at GTV, and during that time I really. 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:08.480 Thought I'm going to leave. 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:10.400 I don't want to do this anymore because it was 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:14.720 not what I had imagined it would be. Did not 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:20.840 like it at all. It was a really tough news room. 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:26.760 I'm not someone who felt comfortable with the style of reports. 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:29.880 Doorstops sort of right, well, it was, I mean that 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:34.360 awful phrase death knocks, where you would have to go. 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:38.800 And talk to people who had just lost a loved one. 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:45.560 But what was very wonderful about that time is the 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.320 crews that I worked with. There were some wonderful people 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:51.640 that I worked with, some beautiful women in that newsroom, 0:16:52.120 --> 0:17:01.080 and we supported each other through quieter mucho environment. And 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:06.080 so say, for example, with those death knocks, we would 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.399 remember the crew saying to me early on we just 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:11.080 call it knocking on the grass, so you don't actually 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.040 go and do it. So essentially you just drive, you 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:18.440 drive the news car around, you park outside the person's house, right, 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.000 and you wouldn't do it, right, You tell your boss 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.120 you did it, and they weren't there, Well exactly, Yeah, 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:26.520 no one answered the door. So that idea of knocking 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.040 on the grass was literally, yeah, you weren't knocking on 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:29.440 their door. 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:33.399 And yet you're a very compassionate person. 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.359 Which was why I was not going to be knocking 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:40.840 on someone's door who had just lost someone, because I 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:45.960 think you are exploiting someone at the very worst time 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:47.600 in their life, and that's. 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:50.680 A very I mean, there are people who would say, well, 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:52.520 that's the news and that's the job of the news, 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:53.760 but it's not the news. 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:55.080 But also it's. 0:17:54.960 --> 0:18:00.600 A very macho kind of thinking behind it. That also 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.879 seemed to infect the whole probably the whole industry at 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.440 that time, I imagine. And was that where you had 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:12.639 incidences of sexual harassment? Yes, that was that same environment. 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:17.560 How did that come about? And who were you in 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:21.080 the context of that, very different than you are now? 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:24.080 I was. 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:29.280 It's a difficult thing to kind of think about it 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:34.520 because it, unfortunately is something that has happened to far 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:39.800 too many women. And it was at a time when 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:44.600 you didn't feel you could speak up because there was 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:47.239 a sense of you are so lucky to have this 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:52.520 job and if you make waves, you will lose your job. 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:58.679 And I remember, though, calling a very senior person saying, 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:00.919 this has just happened to me, and what was it 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:06.639 that had happened? Well, it was I had been It 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:13.200 was sort of very narrow corridor and a particular man 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:17.080 sort of rubbed up senior. It's very senior. 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:24.320 Yeah, that's always yes, yeah, okay, basically rubbed up against me. 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.399 And it was one of those things where you think, 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:32.960 has that happened? Have I? And it's that thread that 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:35.080 so many women say, have I imagined that? 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:39.200 Or was that just an accident? But it wasn't an accident. 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:44.239 He really pushed his body up against me, and I 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:47.720 was in a situation that I couldn't get out, and 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:51.120 I remember the editor saying to me, are you all right? 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:57.600 And I was like, ah, oh, I think so, but 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:02.200 but it was awful, and and I called a very 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:07.760 senior person and said this has happened, and it was 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.080 then put back on me, well, what do you want 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:10.880 to do about it? 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:11.600 Right? 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:16.840 And I knew I had to be quiet, and or 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:18.879 I shouldn't say I knew I had to be quiet, 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:22.200 but it was made clear to me. 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.320 There would be a cost and you would be paying it. 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.480 Yes, it was There'd be a consequence, and so it 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:32.720 made me think, do I want to raise my voice 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:39.880 about this? And what is so infuriating is I'm someone 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.960 who I do raise my voice, but that's a voice 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:48.359 that I've over time become more confident using. And I 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:52.000 look at my daughters who are seventeen and nineteen, and 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.920 they what I love is they raise their voice. They 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:59.240 call stuff out and in a way that I did 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:03.119 not have the confidence or the courage to do. Like 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:08.119 when my daughter Allegro, who's now nineteen, when she was fourteen, 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:10.800 she was out to dinner with a girlfriend and they 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:15.480 were walking in Bondai, walking past a restaurant and there 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:19.399 were these much older men sitting there looking them up 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:22.639 and down and calling out to them, and Allegra basically 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:25.919 turned round and said to this man, and I don't swear, 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:28.920 so I'm not going to swear. But she said, get ft, 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:33.159 how old are you I'm only fourteen. 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:36.200 At the rush. 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:40.920 And she told me that, and I was just like, oh, 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.600 my darling, Yes, I mean there was two things. 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:46.040 Actually, what would fourteen year old you have done in that? 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.639 I would have scuttled away, Yes, yes, I would have thought, 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:54.560 oh that's terrible, oh and sort of scuttled away. But 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.399 there was a part of me that was I was 0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:01.560 thinking too with allegra, Oh no, be careful, because you 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:04.560 don't know then if you yell at someone, what is 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:06.919 there going to be how they actually reacts. Yes, But 0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:10.439 she said to me she already had a cupboard. She's like, mum. 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.400 It was in a public place, those people all around, 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:16.680 so and she said to me, I'm not going to 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:17.840 let him get away with that. 0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:21.760 I'm fourteen. He was, you know, twenty plus years old. 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:23.840 How disgusting. I do love it that. 0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:31.160 Our daughters, our collective daughters, stand on our shoulders because 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:38.280 we have learnt how not to be. Yes more with 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:45.119 Jess Row coming up. When you started on the Today Show, 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:53.399 which was two thousand and six, which seemed like yes, yes, world, 0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:59.680 here I am glorious and ended up being a steaming 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:01.000 part of murd. 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:03.040 Yes. 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:07.320 Yeah, well you see, well Allegra, though Allegra wasn't born then. 0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:10.720 Right, So that was when you took the maternity leave. 0:23:11.280 --> 0:23:16.400 You were pregnant with Allegra exactly. So I got sacked 0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:24.320 on maternity leave, Jess. You didn't get sacked, You got boned. 0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:32.480 The eye cannot stand that word, and I wish people 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:36.359 wouldn't use it because I find it so offensive. 0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:40.320 It has really stuck, though, do you know what I mean? 0:23:40.440 --> 0:23:43.040 Because no, no, it's stuck as. 0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:51.399 A concept because the word itself denoted the truthfulness of 0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:53.640 what you were saying. Do you know what I mean 0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:58.360 of your experience? Because it was such a strange expression 0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:02.840 that at the time I wasn't really familiar with. 0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:08.480 You know, No, I hadn't heard it, and so you 0:24:08.640 --> 0:24:12.520 knew that it was in fact what had happened. 0:24:13.920 --> 0:24:19.200 But we've gone ahead of ourselves here because I'm struck 0:24:19.240 --> 0:24:22.240 by what you said earlier about who you are as 0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:26.640 a person, and I would take these things to be strengths. 0:24:27.520 --> 0:24:34.760 Your vivacity, your quirkiness, your colorfulness, your fine feathers of 0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:40.040 a fine bird. When you started the Today Show, which 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:43.639 was with Karl Stefanovic, he was new to the role 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:47.000 who had been doing it before him, and then before 0:24:47.040 --> 0:24:51.680 you Tracy Grimshaw, Oh okay, and she'd gone to do 0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:56.639 a current affair and he had not been doing it 0:24:56.680 --> 0:24:58.480 for particularly long himself. 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:01.480 That's right. 0:25:01.520 --> 0:25:05.840 So I think I think he began with Tracy okay, 0:25:06.000 --> 0:25:08.119 all right, and then you got the gig. 0:25:08.600 --> 0:25:11.399 Now this reminds me of you know how people always 0:25:11.440 --> 0:25:13.479 say about a boat, it's the best day of your 0:25:13.520 --> 0:25:16.800 life and the worst day of your life. The best 0:25:16.840 --> 0:25:19.440 days when you get the boat. The two best days 0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:21.240 of your life the day you get the boat, the 0:25:21.320 --> 0:25:24.239 day you sell the boat. The best day of your 0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:26.679 life would have been getting that call about you're going 0:25:26.720 --> 0:25:28.639 to be the new co host of the Today Show. 0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:34.880 How was that? Well, I mean, it's funny. It's what 0:25:35.080 --> 0:25:40.960 I try and think about. That time is so two 0:25:41.000 --> 0:25:44.240 thousand and six, and that is now, what are we now? 0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:48.680 So twenty years ago? And I'm so mindful of. 0:25:50.240 --> 0:25:54.760 I don't want a particular time to then define everything 0:25:54.760 --> 0:25:57.320 about me and how people see me and view me. 0:25:58.240 --> 0:26:03.800 And I don't like to give certain people energy that 0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:10.840 they don't deserve or time, no and so, and I'm 0:26:10.880 --> 0:26:15.680 a huge believer in put the good energy here because 0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:20.840 they're not worthy of that negativity or. 0:26:21.119 --> 0:26:23.760 You don't want to feed the wrong farm. No, that's right. 0:26:24.480 --> 0:26:28.639 And but but on a more I suppose if I 0:26:28.640 --> 0:26:33.520 look at it more broadly, it getting the job, I mean, 0:26:33.560 --> 0:26:37.159 but a whole lot of things that happened because I 0:26:37.160 --> 0:26:40.639 had been taken to court before I got the job, 0:26:40.760 --> 0:26:45.600 because I left Channel and then they sued me for 0:26:45.680 --> 0:26:50.760 breach of contract. So they really wanted you. Well, actually 0:26:51.200 --> 0:26:56.200 they didn't, because I mean, the point is if anyway, 0:26:56.440 --> 0:26:59.639 but you know that's also a whole separate saga. So 0:26:59.760 --> 0:27:03.600 it when I got the offer, I was thinking, Yes, 0:27:03.960 --> 0:27:05.800 this is a dream come true. 0:27:06.000 --> 0:27:08.840 This, Yeah, this is what I've been working for. I'm 0:27:08.920 --> 0:27:10.440 perfect for your personality. 0:27:10.520 --> 0:27:14.560 Yes, this is I've dreamt of this, I've worked so hard. 0:27:15.400 --> 0:27:17.840 I was someone I'm different now, but I was someone 0:27:17.880 --> 0:27:22.240 who was very gold driven. If I do this, if 0:27:22.240 --> 0:27:25.440 I work hard, if I give these things up, if 0:27:25.480 --> 0:27:28.040 I focus here, it will pay off. 0:27:28.600 --> 0:27:32.000 So I had that mindset that isn't life. 0:27:32.119 --> 0:27:34.919 I've learnt that, But at the time I was very 0:27:35.240 --> 0:27:39.440 you know, you know, career you think is like steps upwards, 0:27:39.440 --> 0:27:39.960 but it's not. 0:27:40.040 --> 0:27:43.800 It's not near and it's messy. However, I didn't realize that. 0:27:44.359 --> 0:27:49.600 And so yeah, wonderful and I was so excited I 0:27:49.600 --> 0:27:54.119 couldn't believe it, And went through the court case that 0:27:54.280 --> 0:27:58.680 was horrific, finally got the okay to join Channel nine. 0:27:58.960 --> 0:27:59.440 Brilliant. 0:28:00.560 --> 0:28:04.320 So because there was already it was a perfect storm. 0:28:05.359 --> 0:28:09.960 There was the attention on me anyway because of the 0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:14.240 court case. Right, Channel nine was going through a massive 0:28:14.760 --> 0:28:16.080 cultural shift. 0:28:16.359 --> 0:28:19.600 That was when Eddie Maguire was the head of appointed 0:28:19.640 --> 0:28:20.600 the head of Channel nine. 0:28:20.760 --> 0:28:20.960 Right. 0:28:21.240 --> 0:28:25.400 Yeah, actually he wasn't when I began the Today Show, 0:28:25.440 --> 0:28:28.480 but then he shortly afterwards. So yes, it was this 0:28:28.680 --> 0:28:31.760 massive change, and so I was almost sort of the 0:28:31.880 --> 0:28:38.400 lightning rod for everything, escapegoat for want of a better word. 0:28:39.720 --> 0:28:44.520 But again, what's so important to me is that is 0:28:44.680 --> 0:28:48.440 just a weany part of my story, and it's a 0:28:48.480 --> 0:28:52.560 public part, but it's a small part, and I don't no, no, 0:28:52.760 --> 0:28:56.800 But the point is Jess, that that is what has 0:28:56.920 --> 0:29:01.600 led you to you now true is yes, of course, 0:29:01.680 --> 0:29:04.920 but such a crucial part of it because it was 0:29:06.200 --> 0:29:10.640 brutal and people experience things in life that a brutal 0:29:10.760 --> 0:29:11.520 all the time. 0:29:11.720 --> 0:29:14.959 As my mum says, in a positive way. 0:29:14.400 --> 0:29:16.320 The longer you live, the worst things are going to 0:29:16.360 --> 0:29:19.680 happen to you are okay, thanks mum, But yours happened 0:29:19.720 --> 0:29:26.400 really publicly. That has another that has another strata to 0:29:26.440 --> 0:29:32.320 it that is brutal. So you start the show in 0:29:32.360 --> 0:29:36.680 all good faith, all goodwill. I think the important thing 0:29:36.720 --> 0:29:39.240 to note too is that that has not occurred to 0:29:39.280 --> 0:29:39.720 me before. 0:29:39.720 --> 0:29:45.720 But you must have been so energetically different to your predecessor, 0:29:45.720 --> 0:29:51.520 who was Tracy Grimshaw, right, So that's a taste that 0:29:51.560 --> 0:29:55.200 the public then has to learn to deal with. People 0:29:55.240 --> 0:29:58.480 don't like change anyway in their viewing. So you come on. 0:29:58.600 --> 0:30:02.240 That's another lightning rod ass inspect and then suddenly you 0:30:02.280 --> 0:30:06.000 who comes in as our mutual friend Sarah Harris says, 0:30:07.360 --> 0:30:10.200 she said about you, she's pure sunshine. 0:30:10.320 --> 0:30:12.080 Oh I love Sarah. 0:30:12.240 --> 0:30:16.960 So you come in, You come in, pure sunshine, and 0:30:17.000 --> 0:30:19.400 what happens. 0:30:19.240 --> 0:30:24.960 Oh I I'll never forget. The next day, and this 0:30:25.160 --> 0:30:30.400 was before Twitter and all of it was before social media, 0:30:30.520 --> 0:30:31.360 so really. 0:30:31.080 --> 0:30:34.760 It was through It was newspapers, letters. 0:30:34.440 --> 0:30:41.240 To the editor, email was there, and letters probably snail mail, letters, cycles, 0:30:41.720 --> 0:30:42.160 all of that. 0:30:43.040 --> 0:30:48.320 But the day after I remember, and I was so excited. 0:30:48.520 --> 0:30:50.600 But then the day after I remember there was this. 0:30:50.760 --> 0:30:56.440 Article where I was likened to a velociraptor, you know 0:30:56.480 --> 0:31:03.360 those awful creatures, onto prehistoric basically, my hair, my weight, 0:31:03.760 --> 0:31:09.400 my love, everything. It was horrible. It was this awful 0:31:09.600 --> 0:31:16.240 article and I remember just initially going, oh, that's all. 0:31:17.640 --> 0:31:23.040 But often what happens is you think that's it. But 0:31:23.160 --> 0:31:26.160 it was. It wasn't the end of it. It was 0:31:26.240 --> 0:31:32.720 just the start of a very public almost a campaign. Yes, 0:31:33.400 --> 0:31:38.360 and I couldn't ever work out why. But again, I 0:31:38.360 --> 0:31:42.640 don't want to waste energy on that. But it began 0:31:42.720 --> 0:31:46.840 with this particular column, and then it just continued. And 0:31:47.640 --> 0:31:54.160 I'll never forget. There was this TV guide. It was 0:31:54.200 --> 0:31:57.080 when there was like color TV guides, and there was 0:31:57.080 --> 0:32:01.520 this headline, the most annoying person on television, and there 0:32:01.640 --> 0:32:02.000 was me. 0:32:02.640 --> 0:32:03.080 It was me. 0:32:03.400 --> 0:32:09.000 Oh and I remember opening that on a Sunday morning 0:32:10.000 --> 0:32:12.480 and just being in floods. 0:32:12.040 --> 0:32:17.000 Of tears because I thought, like what And. 0:32:18.640 --> 0:32:21.200 At the time, like Pede, my darling husband, he was 0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:24.920 doing sixty minutes, so he was away for eight months 0:32:24.960 --> 0:32:25.520 of the year. 0:32:25.960 --> 0:32:31.400 Wow. But so it just it just it kept going. 0:32:31.800 --> 0:32:34.200 When you opened the newspab that day, was he home 0:32:34.400 --> 0:32:35.040 or he was away? 0:32:35.120 --> 0:32:38.080 He was away, So you're on your own yeah, oh, 0:32:38.160 --> 0:32:43.000 and it wasn't but it was daily. And I remember 0:32:44.320 --> 0:32:48.800 again with the snail mail, that people would send me letters. 0:32:48.840 --> 0:32:51.239 And I remember this particular one someone had sent me 0:32:51.760 --> 0:32:54.760 again from a TV guide and they'd highlighted all the 0:32:54.840 --> 0:32:57.680 awful things and then write me a letter about how 0:32:57.720 --> 0:33:03.240 awful I was, and and it was it was mind 0:33:03.280 --> 0:33:09.440 boggling that people could be so cruel. And I remember 0:33:09.480 --> 0:33:13.840 then saying to the receptionist at nine, can you please 0:33:14.720 --> 0:33:18.480 go through my mail? So I I'm not already doing that, no, 0:33:19.160 --> 0:33:22.400 So there was no protection for you coming into this role. 0:33:22.600 --> 0:33:26.920 Knew nothing had been constructed around you, so I said, 0:33:26.960 --> 0:33:32.000 can you just make sure that that doesn't get to me? 0:33:32.600 --> 0:33:36.040 And so it was just this sense of it kept 0:33:36.920 --> 0:33:40.719 like things just kept happening, right, but and you were 0:33:40.760 --> 0:33:43.560 turning up every morning at three point forty five ding, 0:33:44.720 --> 0:33:50.880 And I'll never forget Kate, a particular boss saying to me, oh, 0:33:50.880 --> 0:33:55.200 there've been complaints about the way you laugh. Can you 0:33:55.240 --> 0:34:00.760 stop laughing? And I made the mistake of listening to him, 0:34:01.200 --> 0:34:02.960 so I stopped laughing for a time. 0:34:03.200 --> 0:34:04.400 Oh jeez. 0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:09.640 But it was a really good lesson because I now 0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:15.560 would never ever listen to someone telling me not to 0:34:15.600 --> 0:34:16.480 be myself? 0:34:16.640 --> 0:34:19.440 What are you without your laugh? Exactly? Who were you 0:34:19.719 --> 0:34:20.480 in that period? 0:34:21.480 --> 0:34:21.760 Yes? 0:34:22.239 --> 0:34:23.480 Who was I? Indeed? 0:34:23.800 --> 0:34:29.279 And so because I was grappling with how do I 0:34:29.320 --> 0:34:33.080 fit this role, this mold of what they expect or 0:34:33.080 --> 0:34:34.840 what people want me to be like? 0:34:35.800 --> 0:34:37.759 But the real lesson for me. 0:34:39.480 --> 0:34:43.560 Was I will never ever listen to anyone telling me 0:34:43.640 --> 0:34:46.279 to be less than who I am. And that is 0:34:46.320 --> 0:34:50.040 something that I tell my daughters. Don't ever ever let 0:34:50.160 --> 0:34:55.319 anyone take your shine or your power of who you are. 0:34:57.440 --> 0:35:02.360 But when you're in the midst of this sort of time, 0:35:03.480 --> 0:35:07.319 you lose your way. And that was a mistake I made, 0:35:07.320 --> 0:35:09.200 but I would never do that again. 0:35:09.400 --> 0:35:10.279 The steel is. 0:35:10.239 --> 0:35:13.759 Tempered in the fire, of course, how else would you 0:35:13.880 --> 0:35:16.359 know that? Of course, how else would you have learnt that, 0:35:17.760 --> 0:35:21.840 to know how it is to be diminished and to 0:35:21.960 --> 0:35:25.080 know how it is to not be truthful to your 0:35:25.200 --> 0:35:29.000 essential self. The irony being that your essential self was 0:35:29.040 --> 0:35:32.400 what got you the job in the first place. Maybe 0:35:32.400 --> 0:35:34.200 because there was a changing of the guard. Do you 0:35:34.280 --> 0:35:37.440 think it had been you weren't the captain's pick? 0:35:38.480 --> 0:35:41.720 Again, I who knows? 0:35:42.200 --> 0:35:44.760 And I'm not going to waste energy on that, because 0:35:45.680 --> 0:35:50.359 what I want to think about that time is what 0:35:50.480 --> 0:35:53.879 I learned. I learned what I was made of. I 0:35:54.000 --> 0:35:58.160 learned what mattered and who matted. And even though I've 0:35:58.239 --> 0:36:03.960 mentioned the negative things, what kept me going was the 0:36:04.080 --> 0:36:08.879 kindness of people. There were beautiful people who would come 0:36:09.000 --> 0:36:11.200 up to me in the street and give me a 0:36:11.280 --> 0:36:13.560 hug and say we love you. 0:36:14.120 --> 0:36:15.240 Keep going. 0:36:15.800 --> 0:36:20.080 People knew then, yes, what people could tell, they would see, 0:36:20.239 --> 0:36:24.560 they could read things, they were hearing things. And then 0:36:24.600 --> 0:36:28.640 people would send me emails. People would send me letters. 0:36:29.640 --> 0:36:34.640 So thetionist, what she would do each morning was this 0:36:34.719 --> 0:36:37.560 was in the like Manila folders, that be a Manila 0:36:37.640 --> 0:36:40.280 folder in my dressing room that had all my scripts 0:36:40.280 --> 0:36:40.560 and things. 0:36:40.560 --> 0:36:42.720 Because she was a good receptionist. 0:36:43.040 --> 0:36:48.040 That's right, like me, right, she would have on the 0:36:48.080 --> 0:36:51.239 top of my notes all of the lovely emails from 0:36:51.280 --> 0:36:56.480 people that she would have there. So before I'd go on, 0:36:57.239 --> 0:37:02.120 there was all of this positivity. So that kept me going. 0:37:02.840 --> 0:37:09.360 I had amazing emails, letters, calls from people in the media, 0:37:09.640 --> 0:37:13.920 people I looked up to, people I've mired enormously, and 0:37:13.960 --> 0:37:19.600 that kept me going. The late great Peter Harvey, I 0:37:19.640 --> 0:37:24.239 remember he sent me a wonderful email about you know that, 0:37:25.840 --> 0:37:28.560 And it was so beautiful what he said about you 0:37:28.600 --> 0:37:31.719 know that it's the caravan or keep going, you know, 0:37:32.200 --> 0:37:37.480 just just keep on keeping on. And yeah, an event 0:37:37.600 --> 0:37:40.440 who I still want to be when I grow I 0:37:40.480 --> 0:37:46.359 remember she took me aside and said, hang in there, 0:37:46.680 --> 0:37:51.160 because when you least expect it, it's. 0:37:51.080 --> 0:37:52.000 Going to turn. 0:37:52.320 --> 0:37:56.080 And there will be no rival reason to why that 0:37:56.280 --> 0:37:57.879 it will suddenly turn. 0:37:58.400 --> 0:38:02.040 That you hang in and. 0:38:01.080 --> 0:38:06.560 And the other thing that I really discovered, and I've 0:38:06.560 --> 0:38:11.680 always been stubborn, but I thought, I'm not going to 0:38:11.800 --> 0:38:17.040 let other people win. The best thing I can do 0:38:17.480 --> 0:38:20.320 is show up every day and do my job. 0:38:21.280 --> 0:38:24.800 So sure, how you can get me. 0:38:25.200 --> 0:38:30.480 How long was that period of the of the vilification campaign, 0:38:31.000 --> 0:38:32.800 the whole time which was how. 0:38:32.680 --> 0:38:34.000 Long before you got pregnant? 0:38:34.600 --> 0:38:39.399 It was I got well, it's because I was going 0:38:39.400 --> 0:38:45.600 through IVF, so I became I think the in the 0:38:45.640 --> 0:38:49.080 August I might have announced I was pregnant, so eight 0:38:49.080 --> 0:38:53.719 months into the role, and yes, it would have been. 0:38:54.040 --> 0:38:57.800 And then I went on maternity leave and then didn't 0:38:57.800 --> 0:39:01.839 come back. But the sort of sense of showing up 0:39:01.880 --> 0:39:05.560 every day, yeah, the stubbornness, so I knew the thing 0:39:05.680 --> 0:39:09.000 is I knew that they wanted to get rid of me, 0:39:09.640 --> 0:39:11.400 and that they were going to get rid of me. 0:39:11.880 --> 0:39:15.680 I knew that. I knew that, but I thought, how 0:39:15.719 --> 0:39:16.160 did you know? 0:39:16.600 --> 0:39:22.120 Because if the vibe, but not even the vibe, if 0:39:22.200 --> 0:39:30.719 there is a negative campaign that is waged about you 0:39:30.800 --> 0:39:33.839 publicly across media. 0:39:33.920 --> 0:39:35.719 And then I remember, actually a Current. 0:39:35.520 --> 0:39:38.560 Affair did a story about me being the most annoying 0:39:38.600 --> 0:39:41.360 person on television what the same network? 0:39:41.440 --> 0:39:44.960 Yes, okay, wow. 0:39:44.640 --> 0:39:49.760 Yeah, And I'd been told subsequently by a good friend 0:39:49.960 --> 0:39:57.160 that they had been publicity had been instructed not to 0:39:57.280 --> 0:40:01.400 do promote any story good stories about me. 0:40:02.600 --> 0:40:04.400 So I knew. 0:40:04.680 --> 0:40:08.560 So that was how I mean, if people want to 0:40:08.600 --> 0:40:10.960 look after you, you'll be looked after. 0:40:11.040 --> 0:40:14.200 Yes, and particularly particularly a network that had the might 0:40:14.280 --> 0:40:15.360 of Channel nine. 0:40:15.120 --> 0:40:15.880 At that time. 0:40:16.400 --> 0:40:18.360 So I knew they wanted to get rid of me, 0:40:18.560 --> 0:40:21.759 and I just thought, Okay, I'm going to make this 0:40:21.880 --> 0:40:24.480 really hard for you, in the sense of I'm going 0:40:24.560 --> 0:40:28.920 to keep showing up. What can I control in this situation. 0:40:29.360 --> 0:40:32.359 I can't control what these people think of me, what 0:40:32.400 --> 0:40:36.000 their plan is for me, but I can control how 0:40:36.040 --> 0:40:37.319 I show up every day. 0:40:38.680 --> 0:40:41.120 I'll be back with Jess Rowe after this short brain. 0:40:44.400 --> 0:40:48.400 I listened to your Big Talk, in fact, your first 0:40:48.640 --> 0:40:52.720 episode of your podcast, so twenty twenty one, I think, 0:40:53.719 --> 0:41:00.279 was with Karl Stefanovic, and he apologizes to you. It's 0:41:00.320 --> 0:41:03.759 a really beautiful apology. That guy's good at apologies, very 0:41:03.760 --> 0:41:08.719 good at apologies. He apologized to you. He said he 0:41:08.840 --> 0:41:11.360 was not the man he should have been, and he 0:41:11.480 --> 0:41:14.440 was not the co host he should have been. And 0:41:14.520 --> 0:41:18.319 it was only really through listening to that that I 0:41:18.400 --> 0:41:24.279 got the sense of how enormous it was what had 0:41:24.320 --> 0:41:28.040 happened to you. And it was the first time you'd 0:41:28.080 --> 0:41:32.040 really had a conversation about it, and that was what 0:41:32.160 --> 0:41:36.279 fifteen years after it had happened, and you said, it 0:41:36.400 --> 0:41:41.759 means a lot to me. I could hear how it 0:41:41.840 --> 0:41:45.560 helped rebuild something in you that, no matter how strong 0:41:45.600 --> 0:41:48.960 you are, and you were like a fortress, hearing the 0:41:49.080 --> 0:41:56.840 truth and hearing that it wasn't you. How did that feel? 0:41:57.600 --> 0:42:02.600 It was incredible you it wasn't me. But I think 0:42:03.920 --> 0:42:14.080 hearing cul apologize to me was very important because I 0:42:14.160 --> 0:42:16.120 had that was the first time we'd spoken. 0:42:17.160 --> 0:42:18.759 That's incredible, isn't it. 0:42:18.880 --> 0:42:23.840 I hadn't heard from him, and so it takes a lot. 0:42:24.400 --> 0:42:29.160 I think guts and courage on his behalf to show 0:42:29.239 --> 0:42:31.600 up and say that, because he could have said I'm 0:42:31.600 --> 0:42:33.200 not coming on your podcast. 0:42:32.960 --> 0:42:34.960 Well even and to be the first Geese. 0:42:35.040 --> 0:42:39.680 Yes, And it did mean a lot to me because 0:42:41.000 --> 0:42:45.320 we have to be able to have hard conversations about 0:42:45.360 --> 0:42:49.719 tough times in our life, and that was a particularly 0:42:49.719 --> 0:42:55.040 hard time. And it was also I suppose a recognition 0:42:55.120 --> 0:42:59.760 from him, Yes, that he had a responsibility too. 0:43:00.120 --> 0:43:05.480 Yes, that he had not lived up to that he'd 0:43:05.520 --> 0:43:06.120 let me down. 0:43:06.480 --> 0:43:10.319 Yes, so you're pregnant with Allegra, which should be a 0:43:10.360 --> 0:43:12.440 time of enormous joy. 0:43:13.000 --> 0:43:13.400 It was. 0:43:13.760 --> 0:43:18.640 And the thing was that kept me going. She was 0:43:20.040 --> 0:43:27.520 my secret She was my real sense of you know what, 0:43:28.560 --> 0:43:31.760 all of this noise doesn't matter because I have something 0:43:31.960 --> 0:43:38.120 far more meaningful, powerful and important that is happening. 0:43:39.560 --> 0:43:44.160 Then Pete was away still, your husband was, yes, still overseas. 0:43:45.120 --> 0:43:48.359 So you're secretly pregnant. Well, yes, so. 0:43:49.040 --> 0:43:53.400 Secretly pregnant, And it was I waited, well, you know, 0:43:53.520 --> 0:43:56.440 you wait until the twelve week mark till you can 0:43:56.440 --> 0:44:01.520 tell people. But it was this wonderful time and I 0:44:01.560 --> 0:44:07.480 was not going to let anything detract from that. And 0:44:07.560 --> 0:44:13.320 having gone through IVF, I knew how precious. 0:44:14.440 --> 0:44:19.799 It was to have hard thought, Yes, and that was 0:44:19.840 --> 0:44:20.480 what mattered. 0:44:21.440 --> 0:44:26.880 So you're on matt leave, how do you find out 0:44:27.360 --> 0:44:29.000 that you've been boned again? 0:44:29.120 --> 0:44:30.279 That word cake, I. 0:44:30.280 --> 0:44:34.520 Know, but the word is, the word is has become 0:44:34.520 --> 0:44:38.880 a shorthand for we not only a sacking, but a 0:44:38.920 --> 0:44:45.400 certain experience of a sacking and a certain execution of something. 0:44:45.800 --> 0:44:48.000 It wasn't even sort of our right to begin with. 0:44:48.080 --> 0:44:54.040 It was suggested to me, well, what was happening was 0:44:54.560 --> 0:44:59.839 there were articles that were coming out about me. 0:45:01.440 --> 0:45:06.200 When I was on maternity leave already, and they weren't lovely, 0:45:06.960 --> 0:45:09.359 right Jess and her baby? Right? 0:45:09.400 --> 0:45:15.600 Okay, however, and then it was suggested, suggested to me 0:45:16.480 --> 0:45:20.880 that there was a press release released that because of 0:45:20.880 --> 0:45:25.280 the demands of motherhood, I decided to stand aside news 0:45:25.320 --> 0:45:28.000 to you. Yes, and I said, I'm not doing that 0:45:29.400 --> 0:45:35.200 and I'm not releasing that and because that isn't true, 0:45:36.440 --> 0:45:41.520 and then and they, I mean, I'm very I don't 0:45:41.520 --> 0:45:45.400 want to get into all the he said, she said, 0:45:45.840 --> 0:45:49.279 it's I don't think anything can be gained from that. 0:45:51.080 --> 0:45:54.359 Some I think someone was already employed to take over 0:45:54.440 --> 0:45:58.840 my role before I But but again, right, let's not 0:45:59.000 --> 0:46:04.719 get into all of that. And in the end, it 0:46:04.800 --> 0:46:12.160 was appalling that I remember having meetings with my lawyer, 0:46:13.600 --> 0:46:19.040 breastfeeding in the morning, putting breastpads into my bra, going 0:46:19.040 --> 0:46:24.080 to have meetings with my lawyer, and just thinking what 0:46:24.200 --> 0:46:27.680 has become of me? And I remember lying on my 0:46:27.760 --> 0:46:30.760 front lawn in tears, just thinking. 0:46:32.640 --> 0:46:33.920 What is going on? 0:46:34.160 --> 0:46:41.040 And I got to a point where I didn't have 0:46:41.560 --> 0:46:47.840 the energy to take them to court. And I was 0:46:48.080 --> 0:46:52.560 really torn because I thought, what am I going to 0:46:52.680 --> 0:46:59.680 tell Allegra about what I did in terms of standing 0:46:59.760 --> 0:47:00.839 up for what's right. 0:47:01.680 --> 0:47:06.120 But in the end, I decided I have to do 0:47:06.200 --> 0:47:10.640 what's right for me now. And you were also you 0:47:10.840 --> 0:47:13.880 had postpartum. I had post natal depression. 0:47:14.760 --> 0:47:22.880 However, it hadn't developed at that point, but it did develop, 0:47:23.239 --> 0:47:26.760 And you can say, why did I have postnatal depression? 0:47:27.480 --> 0:47:32.920 Combination of factors. It's very common women who have I 0:47:33.160 --> 0:47:39.600 go through IVS when you have a baby, the hormonal change, 0:47:39.680 --> 0:47:43.000 I have a family history of mental illness, my mum's 0:47:43.040 --> 0:47:43.879 got bipolar. 0:47:44.800 --> 0:47:46.080 And you have massive. 0:47:45.760 --> 0:47:49.080 Life changes at the same time, and you've been subjected 0:47:49.120 --> 0:47:51.040 to a campaign of public persecution. 0:47:51.400 --> 0:47:53.320 So I had all of that happening. 0:47:53.600 --> 0:47:57.080 So it's little wonder that I then developed postnatal depression, 0:47:57.800 --> 0:48:04.280 and in a funny way, I'm so I'm the way 0:48:04.400 --> 0:48:09.799 life does sort of turn out. It's again that was 0:48:10.000 --> 0:48:15.480 just a small part, public part. But I learned so 0:48:15.640 --> 0:48:19.320 much about myself, but then going through the postonatal depression, 0:48:20.440 --> 0:48:26.440 learning to be gentle on myself, learning that I didn't 0:48:26.440 --> 0:48:30.160 have to be perfect, and I thought I had to 0:48:30.200 --> 0:48:31.240 be perfect. 0:48:32.000 --> 0:48:36.080 In my career hard being perfect exactly. It didn't work. 0:48:36.719 --> 0:48:39.320 But and my career had always been i'll work hard, 0:48:39.440 --> 0:48:43.600 I'll get this result. I worked hard, finally had a baby. 0:48:43.800 --> 0:48:47.200 I was doing everything right, but I was falling apart 0:48:47.239 --> 0:48:50.920 as a mum. I felt like a failure. I didn't 0:48:51.000 --> 0:48:54.480 have a job. I'd been someone who had to find 0:48:54.520 --> 0:48:57.400 who I was through my identity through work. 0:48:57.840 --> 0:48:59.280 I didn't have that any longer. 0:49:00.040 --> 0:49:04.360 Felt like I was a failure And it was such 0:49:05.000 --> 0:49:08.840 an awful time in my life. And I never ever 0:49:09.120 --> 0:49:13.840 want another mum to feel as alone as I felt. 0:49:14.520 --> 0:49:18.440 And that's why I talk about my postonatal depression still, 0:49:18.520 --> 0:49:25.640 because it is the most isolating time, because there is 0:49:25.680 --> 0:49:29.000 this myth around motherhood still that it's meant to be 0:49:29.480 --> 0:49:33.640 the best time of your life and easy and you 0:49:33.760 --> 0:49:37.120 know what you're doing, And for a lot of women 0:49:37.200 --> 0:49:41.640 it's not, And that is not of your choosing. You 0:49:41.760 --> 0:49:45.200 simply have an illness that you need help to get through. 0:49:45.400 --> 0:49:50.600 Interesting though those external factors as well, to take those 0:49:50.640 --> 0:49:53.879 into account of what was happening to you internally? 0:49:54.920 --> 0:49:56.680 How was How was it? 0:49:56.719 --> 0:49:58.880 Because sometimes I think it's harder for the people that 0:49:58.960 --> 0:50:03.920 love you to watch you endure what's happening. Then it 0:50:04.000 --> 0:50:06.640 is even for you. It's hard enough for you. How 0:50:06.840 --> 0:50:11.080 is your husband? Because he was also at the same network, 0:50:11.880 --> 0:50:15.200 so that must have been crazy for him. 0:50:15.320 --> 0:50:20.000 Oh it was, and it was terrible for him. 0:50:20.120 --> 0:50:22.520 And there were a number of times where he was like, 0:50:22.640 --> 0:50:26.840 I'm leaving, and I said, you can't leave because or not, 0:50:26.920 --> 0:50:31.640 you can't leave, but why implode both of our careers. 0:50:32.719 --> 0:50:33.359 Don't do that. 0:50:35.400 --> 0:50:40.799 Not be the bigger person, but don't let this define everything. 0:50:44.080 --> 0:50:48.920 But yes, it was terribly hard for PD and he though, 0:50:49.520 --> 0:50:54.480 is such a darling man. And I mean I had 0:50:54.719 --> 0:50:56.600 I was able to pretend to him that I was 0:50:56.640 --> 0:50:59.920 all right because I was very good at putting on 0:51:01.000 --> 0:51:06.000 the mask. I'd had a life tiling, yes, of experience 0:51:06.040 --> 0:51:11.120 of doing it in my family, in my career. But 0:51:11.239 --> 0:51:13.879 I got to the point where I thought, I can't 0:51:13.920 --> 0:51:18.080 pretend anymore. I've got to tell him. And he was 0:51:18.120 --> 0:51:21.000 such a darling because he just took me in his 0:51:21.160 --> 0:51:24.320 arms and he said to me, it's going to be okay. 0:51:25.480 --> 0:51:28.680 And that's what you need to hear from someone when 0:51:28.719 --> 0:51:30.000 you tell them you're not coping. 0:51:30.880 --> 0:51:32.960 And what had you said to him? 0:51:33.360 --> 0:51:36.920 Well, I said, we've been talking and he was saying, oh, 0:51:36.960 --> 0:51:40.160 I'm so you know, you're doing so well. And he 0:51:40.239 --> 0:51:42.520 calls me pussy cats. I'm a crazy cat lady. Oh, 0:51:42.520 --> 0:51:46.480 pussy cat, I'm so proud of you, and oh, so wonderful. 0:51:46.640 --> 0:51:51.080 And I said, well, I said, it's not. I said, 0:51:51.120 --> 0:51:55.360 I'm really frightened. I'm really frightened that I have postonatal depression. 0:51:56.800 --> 0:52:00.879 And he took me in his arms and he said 0:52:00.400 --> 0:52:03.880 it's going to be okay. And that was what I 0:52:03.920 --> 0:52:08.600 needed to hear, because it was so very scary saying that, 0:52:09.000 --> 0:52:14.160 saying that out loud, and for anyone who's listening, who 0:52:14.920 --> 0:52:18.560 is having those thoughts in their head to then put 0:52:18.680 --> 0:52:22.359 voice to them is scary because it's an admittance that 0:52:22.680 --> 0:52:27.200 I'm not okay. But by putting voice to it, it 0:52:27.280 --> 0:52:32.239 begins your recovery. And I really urge people to do 0:52:32.320 --> 0:52:36.440 that because you don't have to do it on your own, 0:52:36.520 --> 0:52:38.880 and it's so common you can't do it on your own, Well, 0:52:38.960 --> 0:52:42.759 you can't, but unfortunately so many people think they have to, 0:52:43.560 --> 0:52:47.160 and they wait too long. And then the longer you wait, 0:52:47.880 --> 0:52:50.040 the harder it is to get back to yourself again. 0:52:50.280 --> 0:52:50.600 Yes. 0:52:50.680 --> 0:52:54.000 And also you're trying to do something, You're trying to 0:52:54.040 --> 0:52:56.680 pull yourself out of a hole when you're at your weakest. 0:52:56.840 --> 0:52:58.440 Yes, exactly. 0:52:58.719 --> 0:53:02.200 Then you had period of what did your life look 0:53:02.360 --> 0:53:03.080 like after that? 0:53:03.160 --> 0:53:04.920 So you started treatment. 0:53:05.560 --> 0:53:09.719 You love my antidepression, still take my meds. I love them, 0:53:10.880 --> 0:53:16.800 So began antidepressants. I was lucky because the ones that 0:53:16.840 --> 0:53:19.240 were prescribed for me were the right ones. 0:53:19.560 --> 0:53:20.360 They were right. 0:53:20.760 --> 0:53:23.400 There's not always the case, not always the case. I 0:53:23.440 --> 0:53:26.880 had a wonderful psychiatrist. I would see her, not always 0:53:26.920 --> 0:53:32.279 the case exactly. So all these things worked well for me, 0:53:32.520 --> 0:53:34.239 and I know for a lot of people it's not 0:53:34.280 --> 0:53:37.359 as simple as that. Often the struggle is you ask 0:53:37.440 --> 0:53:42.120 for help and the right help isn't available. Yes, And 0:53:42.120 --> 0:53:44.560 and it began a. 0:53:46.239 --> 0:53:50.319 Sort of a what's the word, because journey is such 0:53:50.320 --> 0:53:51.279 a ridiculous word. 0:53:51.320 --> 0:53:57.960 But I've a rising rising, And also I learned more 0:53:58.000 --> 0:54:02.320 about myself and I'm learning I'm still not there yet, 0:54:02.440 --> 0:54:07.879 And I think having the postnatal depression, in a funny way, 0:54:09.280 --> 0:54:10.840 was one of the best things that could have happened 0:54:10.840 --> 0:54:14.279 to me, in the sense of it really taught me 0:54:14.360 --> 0:54:17.680 to be gentle on myself. It taught me I didn't 0:54:17.719 --> 0:54:21.080 have to be perfect. It taught me you could be 0:54:21.120 --> 0:54:24.080 a crap house I could be a crap housewife. I 0:54:24.200 --> 0:54:28.680 could be quirky and crazy and dye my hair different 0:54:28.719 --> 0:54:33.759 colors and do craft and do things that brought me 0:54:34.000 --> 0:54:38.440 joy and not have to be perfect. What was the 0:54:39.520 --> 0:54:43.560 when you really leaned into the crap housewife then, which 0:54:43.600 --> 0:54:46.399 was territory that sort of then became crowded. But when 0:54:46.440 --> 0:54:50.600 you started at nobody else was really doing that. What 0:54:51.320 --> 0:54:55.960 was the process where you gave yourself permission to do that? 0:54:56.880 --> 0:54:57.200 Well? 0:54:57.320 --> 0:55:00.560 It was It was a process of I like to 0:55:00.760 --> 0:55:03.799 liken it to being a crap housewife was like the 0:55:03.800 --> 0:55:07.560 phoenix rising from the ashes of my postnatal depression. It 0:55:07.680 --> 0:55:14.560 was my reclaiming my imperfection and my vulnerability and being 0:55:14.960 --> 0:55:17.880 enough that I didn't have to be perfect, that I 0:55:17.920 --> 0:55:22.719 didn't have to know how to breastfeed, I didn't have 0:55:23.080 --> 0:55:27.440 to have perfect meals for my kids. They didn't have 0:55:27.600 --> 0:55:32.080 to have perfectly brushed hair, and we'd have meltdowns and 0:55:32.120 --> 0:55:34.560 that was okay. And I didn't have to have a 0:55:34.640 --> 0:55:38.200 tidy house and it was okay to fall apart. 0:55:38.520 --> 0:55:39.319 What did you have? 0:55:40.040 --> 0:55:41.719 So we know the things that you didn't have and 0:55:41.760 --> 0:55:44.719 that you didn't do, But what did you learn? Was 0:55:44.760 --> 0:55:45.520 your strength? 0:55:46.120 --> 0:55:51.960 My strength was that? Oh, that's a tricky question. What 0:55:52.120 --> 0:55:55.919 was my strength? But I, oh, that's a really hard 0:55:55.960 --> 0:55:56.359 it's hard. 0:55:56.440 --> 0:55:58.320 Well, I think I know what it is, but sometimes 0:55:58.360 --> 0:56:00.759 it's easy if you see it from outside. 0:56:01.040 --> 0:56:03.840 And I would say your strength was happiness. 0:56:04.520 --> 0:56:10.000 Well, joy, My strength is my capacity for joy, because 0:56:10.040 --> 0:56:13.759 I think happiness is this idea of oh, I have 0:56:13.840 --> 0:56:18.960 to always be happy, but joy is more deliberate and 0:56:19.000 --> 0:56:23.920 you have to be you have to kind of chase joy, 0:56:23.960 --> 0:56:31.360 and it's pockets of joy. So you can feel unhappy 0:56:31.440 --> 0:56:34.680 and you can be having a crappy day, but you 0:56:34.719 --> 0:56:36.759 can think, where's. 0:56:36.480 --> 0:56:40.840 My joy in today? So for me, my joy was 0:56:40.840 --> 0:56:41.800 seeing you today. 0:56:42.080 --> 0:56:47.240 But I've put on some sparkly stockings. 0:56:45.000 --> 0:56:46.840 Dress beautiful and pink lippy. 0:56:47.360 --> 0:56:54.440 So that's that's my strength that I chase joy and 0:56:55.920 --> 0:56:58.879 I want more of that in my life, and not 0:56:58.960 --> 0:57:04.320 only for me, I sort of I want other people 0:57:04.360 --> 0:57:09.319 to embrace that, because there's so much darkness and gloominess 0:57:09.320 --> 0:57:12.440 in the world and you can feel powerless in that. 0:57:13.560 --> 0:57:17.800 And what we can do, though, is go for those 0:57:17.840 --> 0:57:21.080 pockets of joy. And I want that to almost be 0:57:21.400 --> 0:57:28.720 my way of combating the nonsense, the noise, the hate, 0:57:29.920 --> 0:57:34.040 the sort of like, what, why go down that echo chamber. No, 0:57:34.720 --> 0:57:37.520 let's do the echo chamber of joy, or not even 0:57:37.520 --> 0:57:41.040 echo chamber. Let's reach for that. Why not spread that. 0:57:41.480 --> 0:57:45.400 It doesn't mean I don't care about those things or 0:57:45.440 --> 0:57:48.280 I'm not mindful of those things, but I'm making a 0:57:48.360 --> 0:57:52.520 deliberate choice not to buy into that hate. I'm making 0:57:52.560 --> 0:57:56.560 a choice to look for that joy and to encourage 0:57:56.720 --> 0:58:01.680 other people to look for that, because it's too easy 0:58:01.800 --> 0:58:06.560 otherwise to be negative. Now, all right, that is so true. 0:58:06.960 --> 0:58:09.160 But what you are describing is. 0:58:11.040 --> 0:58:15.120 The Academy Award principle, which is a comedy never wins 0:58:15.120 --> 0:58:18.040 an Academy awards. 0:58:17.000 --> 0:58:20.040 Should, Yeah, but what wins Academy awards. 0:58:21.560 --> 0:58:24.480 Yeah, it's a thing with actors where you're always like, 0:58:25.080 --> 0:58:28.640 you know, make a nose out of putty, make people cry, 0:58:28.800 --> 0:58:30.200 You'll win an Academy Award. 0:58:30.800 --> 0:58:31.200 Comedy. 0:58:31.360 --> 0:58:34.560 A comedy has never won an Academy Award. The world 0:58:35.160 --> 0:58:41.920 responds to pain, cruelty, fear. Instilling fear in people, we 0:58:42.000 --> 0:58:44.960 learn during the pandemic can make people do anything. What 0:58:45.040 --> 0:58:50.400 the world doesn't value is people who come in open hearted, 0:58:50.440 --> 0:58:54.000 with a hearty laugh and a healthy snort. People somehow 0:58:54.120 --> 0:58:58.080 underestimate the value of that. To hear you say how 0:58:58.120 --> 0:59:00.400 important it is is. 0:59:02.520 --> 0:59:03.120 Beautiful. 0:59:05.160 --> 0:59:08.800 And I do think I feel that part of your 0:59:09.040 --> 0:59:13.240 redemption round was also doing Studio teen with that gentle 0:59:13.880 --> 0:59:17.960 morning audience who loved that wake up and to start 0:59:18.000 --> 0:59:21.560 the day with you where you were understood and loved 0:59:21.600 --> 0:59:23.480 by the people that you were doing the show with 0:59:23.560 --> 0:59:27.760 Sarah Harris, who have mentioned Ida buttros Jo. 0:59:29.200 --> 0:59:32.360 Beautiful nissistrised up on my firsties. 0:59:32.600 --> 0:59:37.120 Yeah, and people loved you and you did you learn 0:59:37.240 --> 0:59:42.000 to Were you like one of those Chinese sun bears, 0:59:42.080 --> 0:59:44.560 you know they opened the cage door, but they're too 0:59:44.600 --> 0:59:47.080 scared to walk outside because they've never stood on grass. 0:59:47.200 --> 0:59:49.560 Were you like that. At the start, No I was. 0:59:49.680 --> 0:59:50.439 I just came out. 0:59:50.560 --> 0:59:55.840 I came out because what I loved about Studio ten 0:59:56.160 --> 0:59:59.520 was that I could be myself and I was given 0:59:59.560 --> 1:00:05.480 permission to be myself. And in the interim before I 1:00:05.560 --> 1:00:09.000 did Studio ten, I did a whole lot of other 1:00:09.920 --> 1:00:15.120 really fun, crazy for one of a better word, things 1:00:15.720 --> 1:00:21.760 that allowed me to be me. So, you know, there 1:00:21.800 --> 1:00:24.160 was a time when the phone didn't ring and I thought, 1:00:24.200 --> 1:00:24.920 am I ever going. 1:00:24.920 --> 1:00:27.880 To get a job again? Will anyone ever employ me again? 1:00:28.520 --> 1:00:31.280 And then I realized I just had to sort of 1:00:31.320 --> 1:00:34.919 reinvent myself and do things for me and then let's 1:00:34.960 --> 1:00:35.720 see what happens. 1:00:36.200 --> 1:00:38.560 I did singing lessons. I was a terrible singer. 1:00:39.600 --> 1:00:42.800 I sort of had fantasies of being on the stage 1:00:42.840 --> 1:00:47.840 and doing musical theater and ended up narrating a musical 1:00:48.440 --> 1:00:52.040 in Geelong and other places. But I had so much 1:00:52.080 --> 1:00:57.640 fun because I met these creative, beautiful souls and one 1:00:57.680 --> 1:01:00.120 of my dearest friends now I met through that, and 1:01:00.840 --> 1:01:07.160 so I met people who encouraged me to do things 1:01:07.360 --> 1:01:10.360 for the sake of the joy it brings, as opposed 1:01:10.400 --> 1:01:12.600 to the goal at the end. 1:01:13.560 --> 1:01:17.760 But you know, you said you would like, is the 1:01:17.800 --> 1:01:24.280 phone going to ring again? In the meantime, Karl's career 1:01:24.360 --> 1:01:30.480 was going like that, how did you find the grace? Well, again, 1:01:31.080 --> 1:01:34.680 it's I don't want to waste energy on that because 1:01:34.800 --> 1:01:38.480 it's putting energy into what matters, yes, and people who matter. 1:01:38.760 --> 1:01:41.880 So that was a mental discipline that you would exist. 1:01:42.040 --> 1:01:48.920 But also there's far bigger, better things I had. By then, Giselle, 1:01:49.680 --> 1:01:53.440 I was doing Weekend Sunrise, which I love. That was 1:01:53.520 --> 1:01:57.400 so much fun with beautiful Sammy Samantha Armatage and I 1:01:57.440 --> 1:02:00.480 had a ball doing that show. And I was able 1:02:00.560 --> 1:02:04.320 to do that on the weekends and you know, be 1:02:04.720 --> 1:02:09.320 with my girls, and I was able through all of 1:02:09.320 --> 1:02:12.680 that time to sort of find myself again. I did 1:02:12.760 --> 1:02:17.240 Dancing with the Stars and that was great, and that 1:02:17.320 --> 1:02:19.240 was a good lesson for me because I had this 1:02:19.400 --> 1:02:23.800 idea in my head, this warped idea that I'm gonna 1:02:23.840 --> 1:02:28.240 win and then when I win, then I'll redeem myself 1:02:28.280 --> 1:02:31.919 and I'll get back on Telly. I can't dance, and 1:02:32.440 --> 1:02:38.000 like Katie's like, but that I discovered that was the 1:02:38.080 --> 1:02:43.320 first way of doing realizing the joy just in doing 1:02:43.360 --> 1:02:48.600 something and realizing it's what you do along the way 1:02:49.000 --> 1:02:52.080 and what you learn about yourself as opposed to an 1:02:52.320 --> 1:02:56.280 end game in this and so it helped me do 1:02:56.480 --> 1:03:00.000 zigging and zagging of things. I auditioned for play school, 1:03:00.920 --> 1:03:04.680 and I remember doing the audition and thinking, oh my god, 1:03:04.720 --> 1:03:05.640 I've lost my mind. 1:03:05.720 --> 1:03:08.280 What am I doing? But it was fun and I'm 1:03:08.280 --> 1:03:09.440 so glad I gave that a go. 1:03:10.080 --> 1:03:14.680 And even when you stepped aside from studio team, what 1:03:14.920 --> 1:03:16.200 was the thinking then? 1:03:17.360 --> 1:03:22.560 Well, I had done that for six years and I 1:03:22.600 --> 1:03:26.920 loved it. But like anything, there's a season for things 1:03:26.920 --> 1:03:31.480 in your life. My daughters were Allegra was just starting 1:03:31.560 --> 1:03:37.960 high school, Giselle was in primary school, and I knew 1:03:39.120 --> 1:03:40.560 my girls needed me more. 1:03:41.760 --> 1:03:43.600 And how could you tell? 1:03:44.360 --> 1:03:49.680 I just knew that it was more to how I 1:03:49.720 --> 1:03:57.520 was feeling each morning. It was harder. It was more work, 1:03:57.560 --> 1:03:59.600 and of course work is work, and there are some 1:03:59.720 --> 1:04:03.720 days where it's tougher than others. But there was less joy. 1:04:05.360 --> 1:04:08.040 It was more grind and more fraught with. 1:04:09.720 --> 1:04:13.640 Arrangements. Yeah, it was I was. I was more. 1:04:13.920 --> 1:04:18.720 I was just more worn down, and I didn't like 1:04:19.480 --> 1:04:23.000 the person I was becoming at home to the people 1:04:23.040 --> 1:04:25.640 I loved most. I didn't like that I was being 1:04:26.600 --> 1:04:33.919 snappier and more irritable and just tired, creeping through the week, 1:04:34.160 --> 1:04:38.320 and and I thought I got to a point where 1:04:39.560 --> 1:04:43.760 and I appreciate that it's not as straightforward for many women. 1:04:44.960 --> 1:04:48.240 I was lucky because with p D's work, I was 1:04:48.280 --> 1:04:50.680 in a position that I could I could take a 1:04:50.720 --> 1:04:51.240 step back. 1:04:51.320 --> 1:04:54.240 Yes, we weren't reliant on the two salaries. 1:04:54.680 --> 1:04:58.120 He was because when I first told him, he was like, 1:04:58.760 --> 1:05:01.480 because he's very sense, whereas I'm a bit more no, 1:05:01.640 --> 1:05:05.520 come on, let's do it. He's more measured. And we're 1:05:05.520 --> 1:05:07.320 on holidays. And I said to him, I'm going to 1:05:07.400 --> 1:05:11.200 leave Studio ten. And he said, pussy Cat, are you sure? 1:05:11.320 --> 1:05:14.560 Because you love that and I know you get so 1:05:14.680 --> 1:05:16.840 much out of it. Are you going to be bored 1:05:16.920 --> 1:05:20.240 if you leave? He said, why don't you give it 1:05:20.360 --> 1:05:24.800 a few more months? So I did, and I went 1:05:25.000 --> 1:05:27.760 it was sort of thinking about the March or the April, 1:05:27.880 --> 1:05:32.560 and I just thought, I have to listen to what 1:05:32.720 --> 1:05:37.120 my heart is telling me. And as women, we don't 1:05:37.120 --> 1:05:41.400 often do that enough, that we try and logic things away. 1:05:42.480 --> 1:05:47.800 But my heart was saying, you need to take a break, 1:05:47.960 --> 1:05:51.040 You need to step away from this. You are not 1:05:51.160 --> 1:05:56.240 happy and I had to really go you know what, 1:05:57.000 --> 1:05:58.400 You're right, I'm not happy. 1:05:59.320 --> 1:05:59.960 I'm going to live. 1:06:00.560 --> 1:06:03.760 And that was scary as well, because I thought, oh, 1:06:06.040 --> 1:06:10.560 you know, I've worked so hard to get to this position, 1:06:10.600 --> 1:06:13.480 but also to do something that is me that I 1:06:13.520 --> 1:06:18.280 do love, and to walk away from a group of 1:06:18.280 --> 1:06:22.720 people that I love. And but but I don't regret it. 1:06:22.840 --> 1:06:25.560 I'm so glad I was brave. Sometimes we've got to 1:06:25.600 --> 1:06:28.840 be brave and make those calls. But you know why 1:06:29.000 --> 1:06:34.320 because I was present for my family and it may 1:06:34.480 --> 1:06:37.760 sound old fashioned, but it was the right thing for 1:06:37.840 --> 1:06:44.640 our family. I Alegra needed me, Giselle needed me, and 1:06:44.640 --> 1:06:48.200 and your husband needs Yes, he needs me less. 1:06:49.600 --> 1:06:54.360 That's what you think, true. I don't. Yeah, sometimes we 1:06:54.400 --> 1:06:55.000 take the ground. 1:06:55.040 --> 1:06:57.360 Oh, you're right, we do. We just think they'll just 1:06:57.680 --> 1:06:58.760 be there ticking over. 1:07:00.000 --> 1:07:03.680 Everyone likes attention. Don't you know you're the right card 1:07:04.480 --> 1:07:05.320 of the right card? 1:07:06.160 --> 1:07:11.720 Final question for you, Jess Row in your discovery of yourself. 1:07:12.360 --> 1:07:18.080 You'll continue discovery of yourself and your conversations with people 1:07:18.280 --> 1:07:23.200 on your podcast. Will Eddie Maguire be one of them? 1:07:24.800 --> 1:07:33.840 No? Okay, all right, he'll be very disappointed. Someone better 1:07:33.880 --> 1:07:35.720 call him and tell him he's been bowed. 1:07:37.160 --> 1:07:37.200 That. 1:07:37.320 --> 1:07:40.200 You know, I do not like that word. 1:07:41.280 --> 1:07:44.880 I wish you every continued happiness in your joy hunting. 1:07:45.600 --> 1:07:49.400 You're a beautiful woman, as Sarah Harris said to me, 1:07:49.760 --> 1:07:54.520 you are pure beauty, pure sunshine and pure beauty. And 1:07:54.560 --> 1:07:55.520 there's not enough of that. 1:07:56.400 --> 1:07:59.880 Oh, thank you, Kate. Well, but let's all lean into that. 1:08:00.000 --> 1:08:05.080 It's really my message for people that I believe we 1:08:05.480 --> 1:08:09.120 underestimate how much people want the hope and the joy 1:08:09.840 --> 1:08:13.880 and if that is, you know, if people do more. 1:08:13.640 --> 1:08:19.599 Of that, then that's how we rise and keep rising. Amen. 1:08:21.000 --> 1:08:23.680 Well, that, my friends, was Jessica Rowe. One of the 1:08:23.680 --> 1:08:27.120 things I kept thinking about during this conversation was how 1:08:27.160 --> 1:08:29.559 easy it would have been for her to let those 1:08:29.600 --> 1:08:34.599 difficult years define her, to become smaller, or quieter, or 1:08:34.640 --> 1:08:39.760 more cautious. Instead, she seems to have done the opposite. 1:08:40.479 --> 1:08:43.080 The woman who once was told her laugh was too 1:08:43.200 --> 1:08:48.760 much has reshaped her life around being unapologetically herself, and 1:08:48.800 --> 1:08:51.160 I think that's why so many people connect with her, 1:08:51.760 --> 1:08:55.360 not because she's perfect, but because she's willing to be 1:08:55.439 --> 1:09:00.320 seen exactly as she is. Thank you for listen to 1:09:00.320 --> 1:09:03.360 No Filter. If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love you 1:09:03.439 --> 1:09:06.679 to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone 1:09:06.720 --> 1:09:10.400 who might enjoy it. Also, I'm Kate Lanebrook. I'll be 1:09:10.439 --> 1:09:11.320 back next Monday.