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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mea podcast.

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Speaker 2: There are so many better ways to deal with this.

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Speaker 2: If it's really about child safety, then we would fix

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Speaker 2: the harmful things on social media.

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Speaker 3: Hey, I'm Taylor Strano. This is Muma MEA's twice daily

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Speaker 3: news podcast, The Quickie. The world's watching as a global

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Speaker 3: first begins in Australia. From tomorrow, Australia will become the

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Speaker 3: first nation worldwide to ban anyone under the age of

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Speaker 3: sixteen from holding social media accounts. Platforms will need to

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Speaker 3: report into the Safety Commissioned to make sure they're upholding

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Speaker 3: the ban, facing a hefty fine to the June of

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Speaker 3: forty nine point five million dollars if they failed to

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Speaker 3: do so. Here at the Quickie, we've had arguments from

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Speaker 3: both sides, those in favor of the ban and those

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Speaker 3: planning to rebel against it. But while we all fight

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Speaker 3: it out in the comments section, two teens are taking

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Speaker 3: their objection to the ban all the way to the

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Speaker 3: High Court. Before yet there he is Claire Murphy with

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Speaker 3: the latest from the Quicking news room for Tuesday, December ninth.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Taylor, A powerful seven point six magnitude earthquake shook

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Speaker 1: northeastern Japan overnight, prompting tsunami warnings and orders for about

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Speaker 1: ninety thousand residents to evacuate. The Japan Meteorological Agency said

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Speaker 1: as tsunami as high as three meters could hit Japan's

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Speaker 1: northeastern coast after the earthquake struck eighty kilometers off the

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Speaker 1: coast of Amori Prefecture late on Monday. The epicenter of

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Speaker 1: the quake was at a depth of fifty kilometers, according

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Speaker 1: to the local public broadcaster. There's been no immediate reports

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Speaker 1: of any major damage, and no irregularities were reported from

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Speaker 1: the region's nuclear power stations, although East Japan Railway did

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Speaker 1: suspend some services in the area, which was also hit

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Speaker 1: by the massive nine point zero magnitude quake in March

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Speaker 1: twenty eleven. The agency also advised there is a possibility

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Speaker 1: of further powerful and stronger quakes to occur overcoming days.

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Speaker 1: Seven years after Toya Cordingly's body was discovered on an

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Speaker 1: isolated beach, former nurse Rujwinda Singh has been found guilty

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Speaker 1: of her murder. The forty one year old repeatedly stabbed

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Speaker 1: miss Courtingly and slashed her throat at a far north

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Speaker 1: Queensland Beach in twenty eighteen before fleeing to India spending

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Speaker 1: years in hiding. Miss Courtingly was discovered by her father

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Speaker 1: half buried in the sand dunes at Wongedi Beach, north

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Speaker 1: of Cannes, the day after she failed to return from

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Speaker 1: walking her dog, who was found alive nearby, tied tightly

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Speaker 1: to a tree. After a record one million dollar reward

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Speaker 1: and Singh's first trial ending in a hung jury eight

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Speaker 1: months ago, the jury, after seven hours of deliberation, delivered

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Speaker 1: a unanimous verdict that can Supreme Court late on Monday

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Speaker 1: and historic apology will be delivered to Aboriginal people as

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Speaker 1: Victoria recognizes its past mistreatment of Aboriginal people. Premiere Justinto

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Speaker 1: Allen will issue the formal apology in the Victorian Parliament

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Speaker 1: today for laws, policies and practices that have contributed to

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Speaker 1: injustices against Aboriginal people in the state. Parliament has been

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Speaker 1: re called for the special sitting to hear the apology,

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Speaker 1: which was recommended by the Yurok Justice Commission and committed

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Speaker 1: to under Victoria's Australian first Statewide Treaty. The state wide

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Speaker 1: treaty establishes Gellon Wall as a legislative, democratically elected body

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Speaker 1: that must be consulted on laws and policies affecting Aboriginal Victorians.

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Speaker 1: Other measures include truth telling in Victorian public schools, a

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Speaker 1: process to rename geographic features with names considered offensive to

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Speaker 1: Aboriginal people, and a requirement for new legislation to be

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Speaker 1: assessed for treaty compatibility. A public celebration will be held

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Speaker 1: on Friday evening at John Cane Arena when treaty officially commences.

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Speaker 1: The Golden Globes are back, with three Aussies nominated and

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Speaker 1: one getting a double shot. Jacoberlordi has been nominated for

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Speaker 1: Best Supporting Actor for his depiction of the Beast in

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Speaker 1: Frankenstein and Best Male Actor for The Narrow Road to

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Speaker 1: the Deep North, based on Australian author Richard Flanagan's Book

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Speaker 1: of prize winning novel. Rose Byrne was nominated for Best

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Speaker 1: Female Actor in a Film Musical or Comedy for her

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Speaker 1: drama If I Had Legs, I'd Kick You. She's already

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Speaker 1: taken out a Silver Bear Award for the role at

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Speaker 1: the Berlin International Film Festival, and Joel Egerton is up

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Speaker 1: for Best Male Actor in a drama for Train Dreams.

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Speaker 1: The movie won Battle after Another, starring Leonardo DiCaprio, Tiana Taylor,

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Speaker 1: Sean Penn, and Chase Infinity top the nominations list with

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Speaker 1: nine for the first time. Two the Globes will also

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Speaker 1: have a Best Podcast award, with Amy Pohler's Good Hang,

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Speaker 1: Alex Cooper's Call Her Daddy, The Meil Robins Podcast, and

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Speaker 1: Dak Shepherd's Armchair Expert all up for the award. The

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Speaker 1: Golden Globes were sold in twenty twenty three after a

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Speaker 1: series of controversies, taking the voting out of the hands

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Speaker 1: of the Hollywood Foreign Press and allowing a new larger

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Speaker 1: body of more than three hundred people able to vote instead.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Claire. Next, the Ossie teens taking the social media

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Speaker 3: ban all the way to the High Court. From midnight,

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Speaker 3: social media platforms like TikTok, Instagram, snapchat, x, Facebook, YouTube

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Speaker 3: and more will be legally required to kick under sixteen's

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Speaker 3: off their services in Australia. The government says this is

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Speaker 3: about protecting kits from online harms, everything from algorithm driven

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Speaker 3: extremism to self harm, content predators and bullying, but a

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Speaker 3: new legal challenge asks a different question. Does the ban

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Speaker 3: go further than it needs to and in the process

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Speaker 3: breach young people's rights to talk about politics and government.

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Speaker 3: Fifteen year old Noah Jones and recently turns sixteen year

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Speaker 3: old Macy Nielan are leading the charge in the High

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Speaker 3: Court case. Backed by civil liberties group the Digital Freedom Project.

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Speaker 3: They've persuaded the High Court aka Australia's top court, to

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Speaker 3: hear a special case arguing the ban is partly unconstitutional

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Speaker 3: because it burdens what's called the implied freedom of political communication.

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Speaker 3: The Digital Freedom Project isn't saying the government's goal is invalid.

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Speaker 3: They openly accept that protecting children from online harm is

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Speaker 3: a legitimate and serious purpose, But what they are saying

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Speaker 3: is that this particular law sacrifices a considerable sphere of

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Speaker 3: freedom for thirteen to fifteen year olds, including their ability

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Speaker 3: to talk about personal and political issues on the platforms

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Speaker 3: where they already lived their lives. Last month, the group

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Speaker 3: asked the High Court to put the ban on ice

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Speaker 3: before it started, but after a brief hearing, they agreed

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Speaker 3: with the Commonwealth to drop that urgent bid. Instead, the

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Speaker 3: court will hear the full constitutional argument as a special

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Speaker 3: case as early as February using its own original jurisdiction,

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Speaker 3: which means the challenge goes straight to the top without

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Speaker 3: winding through the lower courts first. Regardless, the ban will

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Speaker 3: begin tomorrow, December tenth as planned for Now, Noah and

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Speaker 3: may See have done something pretty rare, convinced the High

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Speaker 3: Court to fast track a case that goes to the

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Speaker 3: heart of how young people participate in public life. They

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Speaker 3: join us now, Noah, I want to start with you.

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Speaker 3: Take me back to the first time that you heard

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Speaker 3: about this new law that eventually under sixteens in Australia

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Speaker 3: would be booted from their social media accounts on a

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Speaker 3: whole bunch of platforms. What were your initial thoughts when

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Speaker 3: you first heard that.

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Speaker 2: I didn't really think it was real because we've had

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Speaker 2: it for so long, you know. I thought it was

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Speaker 2: just a bluff by the government. But then I started

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Speaker 2: seeing them actually putting it forward and doing things to

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Speaker 2: block kids out of it. I was kind of shocked,

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Speaker 2: Like I didn't really know why we were getting banned.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know there was a safety aspect in it,

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Speaker 2: but we didn't really do anything wrong, so I didn't

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Speaker 2: understand at the time.

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Speaker 3: And Masie tell me about from the moments you first

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Speaker 3: find out about this law to where you guys are

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Speaker 3: at now you launched this challenge in the High Court.

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Speaker 3: How did that idea come about? Yees?

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Speaker 4: So I found out I thought it was a bluff too,

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Speaker 4: because it's not practical. And then I was doing work

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Speaker 4: experience at Sydney at a law firm and a group

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Speaker 4: of adults were talking about this topic and they asked

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Speaker 4: from a regional perspective on how it'll impact me, And

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Speaker 4: the questions they asked was what would I tell the

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Speaker 4: Prime Minister And we all just agreed that I wouldn't

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Speaker 4: be able.

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Speaker 3: To And so then where does the Digital Freedom Project

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Speaker 3: fall into all of this? Fore, you guys, because that's

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Speaker 3: why we all know who you two are. We know

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Speaker 3: your names and your faces now and what you're trying

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Speaker 3: to achieve with the High Court. How did you come

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Speaker 3: into contact with them?

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Speaker 4: Like I said, with the law firm, I went through

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Speaker 4: it in that alley and then I guess there's just

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Speaker 4: passionate people on human rights that want to make it

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Speaker 4: right for children.

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Speaker 3: No you mentioned there there's the aspect of hum online

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Speaker 3: and I want to talk a bit more about that

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Speaker 3: in the moment. But from your perspective, what do you

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Speaker 3: feel like teens will be missing out on if they're

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Speaker 3: not allowed access to their social media accounts?

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Speaker 2: Would just be isolated from the community. There's no way

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Speaker 2: that we can share our views or get out there

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Speaker 2: without social media. We can obviously be there in person,

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Speaker 2: but it's the modern town square. This is how like

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Speaker 2: ideas and everything shared around, and we'll just be isolated

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Speaker 2: and cut off from that.

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Speaker 3: What are you currently using social media for? Is it

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Speaker 3: a place where you and your friends get together and

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Speaker 3: have conversations that is it a place where you share

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Speaker 3: things or learn well.

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Speaker 2: I use Snapchat more for just like talking with mates

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Speaker 2: and stuff. But I use Instagram where I get my

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Speaker 2: news and where I get my information on things like

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Speaker 2: I find it a really good resource for seeing the

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Speaker 2: news or different people's views and things that you know.

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Speaker 2: Then I can base my own views off those views

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Speaker 2: and it it really includes me in that space.

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Speaker 3: It informs the world around you. Yeah, Magsie. The government

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Speaker 3: says that the social media ban is there to protect

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Speaker 3: the mental health of young people. It's about their wellbeing.

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Speaker 3: They say that there's risks on social media like cyberbullying

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Speaker 3: and harmful content online, predators as well as other things,

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Speaker 3: and those outweigh the positives that Noah's just talked about there.

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Speaker 3: So what do you say to those people who are saying, well,

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Speaker 3: the band is for your own good?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well the law, this law doesn't put all all

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Speaker 4: kid safety measures into aspects online. There are so many

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Speaker 4: more digital apps that are so far more detrimental to

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Speaker 4: our health, like all social media. What we need is

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Speaker 4: a safe space for under eighteen year olds, which would

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Speaker 4: be done through AI because AI is obviously advancing and

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Speaker 4: it's not going to stop. It's our modern time. That's

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Speaker 4: what we rely on is AI. So I don't know

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Speaker 4: why we can't use AI to monitor these social media

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Speaker 4: platforms rather than banning it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's been a lot of conversation about if it's

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Speaker 3: about making sure people don't come into contact with harmful

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Speaker 3: content online, then the content needs to change, not who's

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Speaker 3: accessing it. Because just because you're over sixteen doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: that you're immune to nasty messages or damaging videos online.

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Speaker 3: So what's going to happen then when you do turn

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Speaker 3: sixteen and go back to social media?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, it's going to be so much detrimental to

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Speaker 4: our health because you're not used to it. How are

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Speaker 4: you meant to navigate through it without using it beforehand?

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Speaker 3: And Noah, there's that element of digital literacy as well.

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Speaker 3: I mean you were saying just before that you get

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Speaker 3: your news from things like Instagram and other online sources.

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Speaker 3: What happens when you eventually go back to social media

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Speaker 3: and then you can't differentiate between what's real and what's fake.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I feel that once you get back on

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Speaker 2: social media, you won't be able to like navigate through it.

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Speaker 2: You won't be able to use it like you used

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Speaker 2: to be able to. Like we're the digital natives. We

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Speaker 2: know how to use technology and things, but once we

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Speaker 2: get cut off from social media, we're going to jump

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Speaker 2: back into it and not really know all the new

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Speaker 2: things about it or how it works.

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Speaker 3: So the band is coming tomorrow. What's the conversation been

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Speaker 3: like with your friends this week? Now?

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Speaker 2: Lots of people have just talked about how they're going

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Speaker 2: to get around it. Most of my mates, the warning

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Speaker 2: hasn't even popped up for their account. People have talked

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Speaker 2: about different platforms are going to go on and how

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Speaker 2: are they're going to get around the band and makesie.

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Speaker 3: You mentioned there that AI could be one of the

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Speaker 3: alternatives to just kicking everyone off the social apps. What

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Speaker 3: other things could be in place, or would you suggest

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Speaker 3: that we maybe look at before we just completely put

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Speaker 3: all under sixteens off the internet like that.

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Speaker 4: Education definitely on digital literacy, especially like you know, healthy Harold,

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Speaker 4: there could be that, But an alternative would be for

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Speaker 4: digital how to use it safely, so government funded speakers

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Speaker 4: at school also sharing their personal experience and how they

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Speaker 4: navigated through cyberbullying and all of those timeful things.

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Speaker 3: There's also some exemptions from the ban or obviously things

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Speaker 3: like WhatsApp. You'll still be able to access WhatsApp, and

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Speaker 3: of course you can text and call your friends on

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Speaker 3: your phones. So if you're still able to communicate with

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Speaker 3: one another both in the school yard and then on

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Speaker 3: things like WhatsApp, is that not upholding your freedom to communicate?

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Speaker 3: How is this different?

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Speaker 4: Well, this is about the children's human rights. This law

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Speaker 4: will initially limit all access to activism, to communication and

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Speaker 4: to information that we are all subject to know.

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Speaker 3: And then, Noah, is there an age where you think

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Speaker 3: that the band could work, Like maybe if we lowered

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Speaker 3: it to ten years in Under or are you saying

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Speaker 3: we should completely get rid of it.

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Speaker 2: Well, the band is taking away young Australians rights, so

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Speaker 2: the band should just be completely gone and everyone has

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Speaker 2: the same rights and it should be up to the

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Speaker 2: parents to decide when their kid can go on social media.

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Speaker 3: All right, and MASI finally, what happens now? I mean

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Speaker 3: you're about to go into school holidays and you're technically

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Speaker 3: not supposed to be on things like Instagram and Snapchat.

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Speaker 3: So what does twenty twenty six look like? Do we

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Speaker 3: know when you'll be back in the High Court.

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Speaker 4: There's been a set day in February and rather it's

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Speaker 4: going to be a direct hearing rather than injunction.

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Speaker 3: And to any parents who are listening, whose kids are

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Speaker 3: maybe also steering down the barrel of school holidays offline,

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Speaker 3: what do you have to say to them?

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Speaker 2: So what we're doing on the twenty first of December

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Speaker 2: is we're getting a bunch of kids together in Sydney

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Speaker 2: and we're going to let them share their ideas on

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Speaker 2: what we could do instead of banning kids from social media,

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Speaker 2: and like what they think we should put instead of

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Speaker 2: the band to make social media safer.

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Speaker 3: Initially, you tried to delay this law that obviously didn't

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Speaker 3: come off, and now we're looking at this special hearing

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Speaker 3: in the new year. Say this is an open line

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Speaker 3: to the Prime Minister, to Anthony Albanezi, to the Comms

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Speaker 3: Minister Anika Wells, and to the e Safety Commissioner Julian

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Speaker 3: Then Grant, what do you want to say to those

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Speaker 3: three people?

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Speaker 2: There are so many better ways to deal with this.

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Speaker 2: If it's really about child safety, then they should be

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Speaker 2: putting in measures to make it safer for everyone. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: just because you're over sixteen, like what you said before,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't mean you're immune to online bullying or predators.

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Speaker 2: So we should make it safe for everyone. And if

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Speaker 2: we're truly passionate about child safety, then we would fix

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Speaker 2: the harmful things on social media and to make social

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Speaker 2: media safer.

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Speaker 3: Thanks so much for taking some time to your mind

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Speaker 3: with us today. The Quikie is produced by me Taylor Strano,

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Speaker 3: Ilaria Brophy and Claire Murphy, with audio production by lou Hill.

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Speaker 4: Momma.

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Speaker 1: Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that

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Speaker 1: this podcast is recorded on