1 00:00:05,646 --> 00:00:10,645 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mum and Me podcast. 2 00:00:11,006 --> 00:00:14,286 Speaker 2: Hi, it's Cassanne Lukich here, host of Diary of a Birth, 3 00:00:14,566 --> 00:00:17,925 Speaker 2: and this summer we've curated your delivery room playlist to 4 00:00:17,966 --> 00:00:21,526 Speaker 2: bring you even more unmissable birth stories. This summer, we're 5 00:00:21,566 --> 00:00:24,286 Speaker 2: bringing you our favorite episodes of Diary of a Birth 6 00:00:24,526 --> 00:00:27,926 Speaker 2: right here in your feet. That's your holiday listening sworded 7 00:00:28,366 --> 00:00:30,806 Speaker 2: And if you're looking for more to listen to, every 8 00:00:30,846 --> 00:00:34,165 Speaker 2: Mum and mea podcast is curating your summer listening right 9 00:00:34,246 --> 00:00:38,565 Speaker 2: across our network. From pop culture to beauty to powerful interviews, 10 00:00:38,726 --> 00:00:39,885 Speaker 2: there's something for everyone. 11 00:00:40,126 --> 00:00:46,405 Speaker 1: Check out the link in the show notes. Hi, I'm 12 00:00:46,525 --> 00:00:51,085 Speaker 1: Cassene lukish and this is Diary of a Birth. We've 13 00:00:51,126 --> 00:00:55,446 Speaker 1: all been thrown curveballs in life, but a cancer diagnosis 14 00:00:55,486 --> 00:00:59,005 Speaker 1: two days before finding out you're pregnant has to be 15 00:00:59,046 --> 00:01:03,365 Speaker 1: one of the toughest blows possible. Today's mum navigated this 16 00:01:03,606 --> 00:01:09,086 Speaker 1: unimaginable situation with an immense amount of strength and got 17 00:01:09,126 --> 00:01:11,766 Speaker 1: through it all with a beautiful, healthy baby. 18 00:01:12,806 --> 00:01:16,446 Speaker 3: It was just such a brutal thing to happen, something 19 00:01:16,486 --> 00:01:20,086 Speaker 3: you've been looking forward to, only to find out after 20 00:01:20,126 --> 00:01:22,646 Speaker 3: you've just been basically told that you might not have 21 00:01:22,766 --> 00:01:23,326 Speaker 3: long to live. 22 00:01:24,326 --> 00:01:29,566 Speaker 1: After being diagnosed with chronic myloid leukemia and incurable blood cancer, 23 00:01:30,366 --> 00:01:33,566 Speaker 1: she was advised by her doctors to terminate her pregnancy, 24 00:01:34,326 --> 00:01:38,646 Speaker 1: but ultimately decided that this was meant to be. So 25 00:01:39,046 --> 00:01:40,206 Speaker 1: let's meet today's mum. 26 00:01:41,326 --> 00:01:43,566 Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Elle, and this is the diary of my 27 00:01:43,646 --> 00:01:44,526 Speaker 3: birth with Talk. 28 00:01:46,566 --> 00:01:50,046 Speaker 1: So El, you've told your story a number of times 29 00:01:50,206 --> 00:01:53,686 Speaker 1: and it is a really difficult time for you, your 30 00:01:53,806 --> 00:01:58,046 Speaker 1: journalist in the public eye. You know, I remember when 31 00:01:58,246 --> 00:02:01,566 Speaker 1: this happened, as we were colleagues and I saw you 32 00:02:01,606 --> 00:02:04,286 Speaker 1: a number of times. But can you tell me a 33 00:02:04,326 --> 00:02:08,406 Speaker 1: little bit about what happened, you know, the two days 34 00:02:08,406 --> 00:02:10,766 Speaker 1: before you found out that you were pregnant. 35 00:02:12,046 --> 00:02:15,046 Speaker 3: Yes, So two days before I found out I was 36 00:02:15,085 --> 00:02:19,646 Speaker 3: pregnant with my first child, I was diagnosed with a 37 00:02:19,726 --> 00:02:24,846 Speaker 3: rare form of blood cancer, which was an absolute shock, 38 00:02:24,965 --> 00:02:27,925 Speaker 3: to say the least, and something that you don't expect 39 00:02:27,925 --> 00:02:29,365 Speaker 3: to hear when you're thirty years old. 40 00:02:29,645 --> 00:02:32,486 Speaker 1: Yeah, and were there any symptoms for you, like, what 41 00:02:32,606 --> 00:02:35,326 Speaker 1: was your reason for going to the doctor. 42 00:02:36,006 --> 00:02:40,606 Speaker 3: So ironically, I went to my doctor initially to get 43 00:02:40,766 --> 00:02:43,886 Speaker 3: my fole eight and vitamin D checked because me and 44 00:02:43,965 --> 00:02:46,565 Speaker 3: my husband. We'd been together for about ten years, married 45 00:02:46,606 --> 00:02:49,246 Speaker 3: for I think three, and we kind of thought, okay, 46 00:02:49,965 --> 00:02:53,085 Speaker 3: my thirtieth out of the way, let's maybe consider starting 47 00:02:53,085 --> 00:02:56,446 Speaker 3: a family. But we were kind of not in a rush, 48 00:02:56,486 --> 00:02:58,965 Speaker 3: and so I just wanted to make sure that I 49 00:02:59,046 --> 00:03:01,606 Speaker 3: kind of had all my health, you know, looking good, 50 00:03:01,685 --> 00:03:06,445 Speaker 3: before we did anything. And so it kind of corresponded 51 00:03:06,486 --> 00:03:08,326 Speaker 3: with a bit of gastro that I had. So I 52 00:03:08,365 --> 00:03:09,885 Speaker 3: went to the doctor and I was like, while I'm here, 53 00:03:09,886 --> 00:03:12,486 Speaker 3: I want to get all my blood's taken just to 54 00:03:12,486 --> 00:03:15,246 Speaker 3: see how I'm going. And then he got back to 55 00:03:15,245 --> 00:03:18,966 Speaker 3: me and he said, fol it's okay, so gi vitamin D, 56 00:03:19,125 --> 00:03:23,566 Speaker 3: but you've also got something happening with your platelet levels. 57 00:03:24,245 --> 00:03:26,726 Speaker 3: That didn't mean anything to me at the time, so 58 00:03:26,846 --> 00:03:28,526 Speaker 3: I said, okay, well what does that mean. He said, 59 00:03:28,606 --> 00:03:30,126 Speaker 3: come back in a couple of weeks. It might just 60 00:03:30,166 --> 00:03:33,646 Speaker 3: be a reaction to the bug you had. And so 61 00:03:34,645 --> 00:03:37,286 Speaker 3: two weeks later I went back, got the tests again 62 00:03:37,446 --> 00:03:40,806 Speaker 3: and the platelets were actually worse than they were before, 63 00:03:40,846 --> 00:03:44,806 Speaker 3: so they were higher, and he said, probably best we 64 00:03:44,886 --> 00:03:48,206 Speaker 3: go and ReFood to a specialist just to rule out 65 00:03:48,246 --> 00:03:53,006 Speaker 3: anything bad. And so I said, okay, sure, but you know, 66 00:03:53,046 --> 00:03:55,246 Speaker 3: we specialists, it takes forever, so I think it was 67 00:03:55,246 --> 00:03:58,406 Speaker 3: about nine weeks or something crazy before I could actually 68 00:03:58,406 --> 00:04:01,326 Speaker 3: go and see them. So in that time I kind 69 00:04:01,326 --> 00:04:04,686 Speaker 3: of just forgot about it was doing, you know, working 70 00:04:04,966 --> 00:04:08,406 Speaker 3: too much, as we all do. I was feeling a 71 00:04:08,406 --> 00:04:13,406 Speaker 3: bit tired, but not ridiculously so not concerningly so if 72 00:04:13,406 --> 00:04:18,606 Speaker 3: that makes sense. And so when it came for my appointment, 73 00:04:18,686 --> 00:04:21,846 Speaker 3: I went and I got all these blood tests and 74 00:04:23,325 --> 00:04:28,486 Speaker 3: the lady at the hematology department said, look, we'll probably 75 00:04:28,486 --> 00:04:30,966 Speaker 3: get in touch with in about three weeks to organize 76 00:04:30,966 --> 00:04:36,606 Speaker 3: the specialist appointment, so see you later. So I get 77 00:04:36,646 --> 00:04:40,406 Speaker 3: home the next day, which was a Thursday, I get 78 00:04:40,406 --> 00:04:43,166 Speaker 3: a phone call at nine am on the dot and 79 00:04:43,206 --> 00:04:46,565 Speaker 3: it was from the hematology department at RPA to tell 80 00:04:46,565 --> 00:04:49,806 Speaker 3: me that no, they weren't calling me in three weeks. 81 00:04:50,526 --> 00:04:52,926 Speaker 3: I had to come and see them on Monday, which 82 00:04:52,966 --> 00:04:55,846 Speaker 3: was four days from then, and bring a loved one 83 00:04:55,846 --> 00:05:01,646 Speaker 3: with me. And I mean, when you're told to bring 84 00:05:01,726 --> 00:05:04,366 Speaker 3: someone with you to a doctor's appointment, you know that 85 00:05:04,406 --> 00:05:05,486 Speaker 3: it's not going to be good news. 86 00:05:05,565 --> 00:05:11,606 Speaker 4: So that was incredibly difficult because I thought. 87 00:05:11,366 --> 00:05:13,005 Speaker 3: I'm not going to wait four days to find out 88 00:05:13,765 --> 00:05:15,806 Speaker 3: if I'm dying, you know, and the worst things go 89 00:05:15,846 --> 00:05:20,526 Speaker 3: through your head. And so my GP managed to kind 90 00:05:20,526 --> 00:05:23,445 Speaker 3: of find out what was going on and came over 91 00:05:23,486 --> 00:05:25,206 Speaker 3: that night and broke the news to me and my 92 00:05:25,286 --> 00:05:30,246 Speaker 3: husband that I was diagnosed with with leukemia. And my 93 00:05:30,526 --> 00:05:31,845 Speaker 3: wealth fell apart at that moment. 94 00:05:32,246 --> 00:05:34,325 Speaker 1: Yeah, it would have hit like a ton of rex. 95 00:05:35,005 --> 00:05:39,246 Speaker 4: It's hard to kind of explain. It's hard to describe. 96 00:05:39,246 --> 00:05:41,286 Speaker 3: I guess it's what you feel like, you know, that 97 00:05:41,406 --> 00:05:44,845 Speaker 3: moment that you're about to die. Yeah, everything on it 98 00:05:44,885 --> 00:05:48,846 Speaker 3: comes full circle and like you're looking down a dark 99 00:05:48,885 --> 00:05:51,765 Speaker 3: tunnel and you can't see or hear anything else except 100 00:05:51,846 --> 00:05:54,966 Speaker 3: kind of this light in front of you, just. 101 00:05:56,366 --> 00:05:57,286 Speaker 4: Like a deer in headlights. 102 00:05:57,286 --> 00:06:02,246 Speaker 1: I guess. Yeah, so you find out and then how 103 00:06:02,286 --> 00:06:03,885 Speaker 1: did you find out that you were pregnant? 104 00:06:05,646 --> 00:06:09,166 Speaker 3: So you know, you're sitting at home, I'm just like 105 00:06:09,286 --> 00:06:12,366 Speaker 3: in this kind of still in shock, I guess. And 106 00:06:12,765 --> 00:06:15,926 Speaker 3: I thought to myself, Oh my god, what would be 107 00:06:15,926 --> 00:06:21,965 Speaker 3: the worst situation ever if I was pregnant. So I'd 108 00:06:22,246 --> 00:06:26,565 Speaker 3: actually taken a pregnancy test about two weeks before because 109 00:06:26,686 --> 00:06:28,126 Speaker 3: I was out with some friends and I wanted to 110 00:06:28,206 --> 00:06:31,005 Speaker 3: have a drink and I wasn't sure if I was 111 00:06:31,086 --> 00:06:34,086 Speaker 3: or not, Like we just weren't being very careful, if 112 00:06:34,086 --> 00:06:37,686 Speaker 3: that makes sense. And so I did it and it 113 00:06:37,726 --> 00:06:40,526 Speaker 3: was negative, so that was great. But then I bought 114 00:06:40,526 --> 00:06:44,205 Speaker 3: a two pac so I thought he's probably gonna ask 115 00:06:44,765 --> 00:06:46,526 Speaker 3: on the Monday when I go in for the you know, 116 00:06:46,646 --> 00:06:52,366 Speaker 3: proper specialist appointment. So I decided to just did the 117 00:06:52,406 --> 00:06:57,086 Speaker 3: second test and was not expecting it, but it was positive. 118 00:06:59,046 --> 00:07:03,085 Speaker 3: It was like, really, like, is this actually happening to me? 119 00:07:03,445 --> 00:07:08,005 Speaker 3: Like you think to the universe, like are you serious? Okay, 120 00:07:08,086 --> 00:07:11,686 Speaker 3: give me something to tackle, but don't complicate it like this. 121 00:07:12,166 --> 00:07:15,766 Speaker 3: You know, it was just such a brutal thing to happen, 122 00:07:16,246 --> 00:07:19,326 Speaker 3: something you've been looking forward to, only to find out 123 00:07:19,966 --> 00:07:22,606 Speaker 3: after you've just been basically told that you might not 124 00:07:22,686 --> 00:07:24,566 Speaker 3: have long to live, you know, at that point of like, 125 00:07:24,926 --> 00:07:26,646 Speaker 3: I don't know what this means to mex We hadn't 126 00:07:26,646 --> 00:07:28,486 Speaker 3: even met the specialist. All I knew was I had 127 00:07:28,526 --> 00:07:31,006 Speaker 3: blood cancer. And when you think about blood cancer, that 128 00:07:31,046 --> 00:07:32,366 Speaker 3: sounds pretty bad, right. 129 00:07:32,406 --> 00:07:35,285 Speaker 1: Oh, leukemia as well. I mean the word leukemia thrown 130 00:07:35,326 --> 00:07:40,285 Speaker 1: around is something that that's also you know, that's really serious. 131 00:07:41,406 --> 00:07:45,966 Speaker 1: So this weekend before your specialist appointment. You and Nick 132 00:07:46,206 --> 00:07:50,886 Speaker 1: found out that you're pregnant and you have leukemia. What 133 00:07:50,926 --> 00:07:52,726 Speaker 1: are you doing on that weekend? 134 00:07:53,726 --> 00:07:56,926 Speaker 3: I was I was high on drugs, to be honest, 135 00:07:58,606 --> 00:08:02,405 Speaker 3: I'd asked my GP to give me some pretty hardcore 136 00:08:02,766 --> 00:08:06,486 Speaker 3: muscle relaxance. I'd probably popped way too many than I 137 00:08:06,486 --> 00:08:08,126 Speaker 3: should have. So I was in a bit of a 138 00:08:08,206 --> 00:08:11,926 Speaker 3: kind of comatose state, just kind of like watching TV 139 00:08:12,046 --> 00:08:16,406 Speaker 3: but not watching it and just imagining me lying in a. 140 00:08:16,326 --> 00:08:19,126 Speaker 4: Hospital bed close to death. You know, you start. 141 00:08:18,846 --> 00:08:22,366 Speaker 3: Thinking, my god, who am I going to give my 142 00:08:22,366 --> 00:08:24,766 Speaker 3: wardrobe too? I haven't even tone my will yet. You know, 143 00:08:24,846 --> 00:08:26,686 Speaker 3: all of those things start going through your mind. And 144 00:08:27,366 --> 00:08:29,605 Speaker 3: my husband's on the computer in the background, like trying 145 00:08:29,606 --> 00:08:31,486 Speaker 3: to research or trying to figure out what we're going 146 00:08:31,566 --> 00:08:34,486 Speaker 3: to do, and I'm just sitting there just going fuck. 147 00:08:36,166 --> 00:08:38,926 Speaker 4: And then I just didn't think that there was going 148 00:08:38,966 --> 00:08:40,726 Speaker 4: to be any way out of this, Like this was 149 00:08:40,766 --> 00:08:41,646 Speaker 4: just going to end badly. 150 00:08:42,126 --> 00:08:42,805 Speaker 1: Yeah. 151 00:08:42,846 --> 00:08:46,446 Speaker 3: So when we got to the appointment on the Monday, 152 00:08:47,045 --> 00:08:51,006 Speaker 3: it was quite bizarre having to tell him the news 153 00:08:51,045 --> 00:08:53,206 Speaker 3: when we already knew what he was going to tell us. 154 00:08:53,926 --> 00:08:58,366 Speaker 3: And basically he was like, well, this is a really 155 00:08:58,486 --> 00:09:01,685 Speaker 3: rare cancer for someone of your age and gender, because 156 00:09:01,726 --> 00:09:02,726 Speaker 3: normally men who. 157 00:09:02,566 --> 00:09:05,925 Speaker 4: Are like sixty plus get this disease. 158 00:09:06,006 --> 00:09:09,445 Speaker 3: And with blood cancer, it's quite interesting that there really 159 00:09:09,486 --> 00:09:13,846 Speaker 3: aren't any direct lifestyle factors associated with the onset of 160 00:09:13,846 --> 00:09:17,285 Speaker 3: blood cancer. So I was kind of, what have I done? 161 00:09:17,846 --> 00:09:19,925 Speaker 3: You know, what could I have done to not have this? 162 00:09:20,006 --> 00:09:23,166 Speaker 3: And he's like, look, it's just it's just bad luck. 163 00:09:23,606 --> 00:09:28,685 Speaker 3: But it's really weird for you to have it. And 164 00:09:28,926 --> 00:09:32,166 Speaker 3: I've never treated anyone who's been in this situation, so 165 00:09:32,886 --> 00:09:36,246 Speaker 3: best thing to do. You're my patient, So my advice is, 166 00:09:37,326 --> 00:09:41,606 Speaker 3: you know, terminate the pregnancy, go on fertility treatment, and 167 00:09:41,646 --> 00:09:43,806 Speaker 3: then we'll put you on these new drugs that are 168 00:09:43,846 --> 00:09:46,405 Speaker 3: going to save your life pretty much. And I was like, wow, okay, 169 00:09:46,926 --> 00:09:50,806 Speaker 3: that seems a really like messed up thing to do. 170 00:09:51,646 --> 00:09:57,726 Speaker 3: Terminate a child only so that you can go on fertility. 171 00:09:57,246 --> 00:10:01,925 Speaker 1: Drugs seems karen intuitive. Yeah, So when they told you 172 00:10:01,966 --> 00:10:04,926 Speaker 1: about the cancer, what was the prognosis for the cancer? 173 00:10:05,006 --> 00:10:08,046 Speaker 1: Was the cancer it treatable? Was it incurable? Was it like? 174 00:10:08,165 --> 00:10:09,806 Speaker 1: What was the prognosis? 175 00:10:10,405 --> 00:10:17,206 Speaker 3: So he basically said, it's incurable, however, it's treatable. So 176 00:10:18,126 --> 00:10:21,165 Speaker 3: I had a chromosome two chromosomes twenty six and nine, 177 00:10:21,726 --> 00:10:24,726 Speaker 3: which broke apart randomly and switched and. 178 00:10:24,686 --> 00:10:25,966 Speaker 4: Attached to each other. 179 00:10:27,006 --> 00:10:31,445 Speaker 3: So he said, with this chromosome, we can't reattach them 180 00:10:31,446 --> 00:10:35,206 Speaker 3: in the right spots. However, new drugs come on the market. 181 00:10:35,366 --> 00:10:38,565 Speaker 3: It's kind of been around only for a few years. 182 00:10:39,806 --> 00:10:43,846 Speaker 3: Before that, chronic leukemia was pretty much a death sentence 183 00:10:43,886 --> 00:10:46,846 Speaker 3: three to five year survival rate on average. But these 184 00:10:46,886 --> 00:10:50,726 Speaker 3: new drugs change the game. And now if you take 185 00:10:50,766 --> 00:10:54,165 Speaker 3: the drugs and they work for you and you can 186 00:10:54,206 --> 00:10:59,206 Speaker 3: tolerate them, then you might live along in healthy life. 187 00:11:00,526 --> 00:11:03,966 Speaker 3: That's the plan, that's the hope. If there's a mutation 188 00:11:04,566 --> 00:11:07,326 Speaker 3: that can change things, it looks good, but we have 189 00:11:07,366 --> 00:11:10,565 Speaker 3: to get onto it really quickly because if it's untreated, 190 00:11:10,686 --> 00:11:14,086 Speaker 3: it mutates into an acute form of leukemia, which can 191 00:11:14,126 --> 00:11:18,126 Speaker 3: be fatal obviously, So that's why it's really important that 192 00:11:18,165 --> 00:11:20,246 Speaker 3: we get these drugs into you pretty quickly. And you 193 00:11:20,285 --> 00:11:21,686 Speaker 3: can't be pregnant while you're on them. 194 00:11:21,846 --> 00:11:22,206 Speaker 1: Okay. 195 00:11:22,366 --> 00:11:24,606 Speaker 4: So I was like, wow, okay, And I didn't know 196 00:11:24,646 --> 00:11:28,606 Speaker 4: how kind of progressed the cancer was. So I was 197 00:11:28,646 --> 00:11:29,846 Speaker 4: all so many unknowns. 198 00:11:29,926 --> 00:11:33,766 Speaker 1: Right, how far along will you do? You know very early. 199 00:11:34,126 --> 00:11:37,806 Speaker 3: I was only about four weeks and okay, and in 200 00:11:37,846 --> 00:11:40,406 Speaker 3: my mind I was like, well, it seems so weird that, 201 00:11:41,606 --> 00:11:44,406 Speaker 3: like I've managed to kind of create a life when 202 00:11:44,405 --> 00:11:48,926 Speaker 3: my body is not so good, right, Yeah, And I thought, well, 203 00:11:49,526 --> 00:11:51,246 Speaker 3: there is a pretty high chance that it's just going 204 00:11:51,326 --> 00:11:55,046 Speaker 3: to kind of self terminate it, right if the body 205 00:11:55,126 --> 00:11:56,606 Speaker 3: is like, well, this is not the right time to 206 00:11:56,606 --> 00:12:00,806 Speaker 3: have a baby. So part of me was like, well, 207 00:12:00,806 --> 00:12:03,446 Speaker 3: maybe we just wait see if we get to the 208 00:12:03,446 --> 00:12:06,486 Speaker 3: twelve weeks. And if we do so, then I'm like, well, 209 00:12:06,686 --> 00:12:09,606 Speaker 3: is that not kind of a sign that this kid's 210 00:12:09,646 --> 00:12:12,846 Speaker 3: a pretty strong kid? And maybe I give it the 211 00:12:12,886 --> 00:12:16,966 Speaker 3: benefit of the doubt. And then so with that kind 212 00:12:17,006 --> 00:12:19,566 Speaker 3: of thinking in my mind, and then my husband going, 213 00:12:19,566 --> 00:12:26,326 Speaker 3: I found this world globally recognized expert in this particular cancer. 214 00:12:27,086 --> 00:12:31,606 Speaker 3: Let's go and visit him down in South Australia. First 215 00:12:31,606 --> 00:12:34,646 Speaker 3: time I've ever been to Adelaide. It's lovely, which i'd 216 00:12:34,646 --> 00:12:38,646 Speaker 3: been more under better circumstances, but the facility there, the 217 00:12:38,686 --> 00:12:42,966 Speaker 3: research facility that I went down to, was just incredible. 218 00:12:43,206 --> 00:12:50,045 Speaker 3: And doctor Hughes, who is the professor, he was just amazing. 219 00:12:50,206 --> 00:12:55,086 Speaker 3: Is it look your professor is right, you're hematologist that 220 00:12:55,405 --> 00:12:58,326 Speaker 3: this is not very common and there are a lot 221 00:12:58,366 --> 00:13:03,166 Speaker 3: of risks, but maybe if you do watch and wait, 222 00:13:04,086 --> 00:13:07,606 Speaker 3: we can put you on this other drug, which was 223 00:13:07,886 --> 00:13:09,726 Speaker 3: back in the day the only kind of line of 224 00:13:09,726 --> 00:13:12,846 Speaker 3: defense that they had to treat this cancer and it 225 00:13:12,926 --> 00:13:15,886 Speaker 3: might just give you that extra time before you can 226 00:13:15,966 --> 00:13:19,686 Speaker 3: you give birth to keep the cancer kind of obey. 227 00:13:20,566 --> 00:13:23,926 Speaker 3: So basically it was I had to inject it once 228 00:13:23,966 --> 00:13:24,526 Speaker 3: a week. 229 00:13:24,486 --> 00:13:26,845 Speaker 1: And that was safe to take during pregnancy. 230 00:13:27,006 --> 00:13:30,325 Speaker 4: Yes, it didn't cross the blood brain barrier. 231 00:13:30,165 --> 00:13:31,846 Speaker 1: Into the placenta, yeah, yes. 232 00:13:31,886 --> 00:13:34,445 Speaker 3: And it was called interferon and it was what they 233 00:13:34,566 --> 00:13:38,646 Speaker 3: used before this other drug called a TKI tyras in 234 00:13:38,686 --> 00:13:44,925 Speaker 3: Canadian hibita was introduced. So it's like, it's pretty not fun. 235 00:13:45,766 --> 00:13:48,486 Speaker 3: It's not the funnest struggle to take. Some people find 236 00:13:48,486 --> 00:13:51,686 Speaker 3: it really hard, others don't find it too hard. But 237 00:13:51,966 --> 00:13:55,006 Speaker 3: it's the best chance we've got. So I was like, 238 00:13:55,045 --> 00:13:57,565 Speaker 3: all right, well, let's just see how we go. So 239 00:13:57,606 --> 00:13:59,606 Speaker 3: that first kind of a few weeks was a waiting game. 240 00:13:59,606 --> 00:14:03,726 Speaker 3: But interestingly this happened. This was all going on pretty 241 00:14:03,766 --> 00:14:06,926 Speaker 3: much this time nine years ago, so it was the 242 00:14:06,926 --> 00:14:10,526 Speaker 3: first week of May that everything kind of happened. So 243 00:14:10,566 --> 00:14:13,366 Speaker 3: it was around Mother's Day, and that was around the 244 00:14:13,405 --> 00:14:16,246 Speaker 3: time that I told my parents and in laws, and 245 00:14:17,006 --> 00:14:18,286 Speaker 3: it was just horrible. 246 00:14:18,846 --> 00:14:21,446 Speaker 4: You know, you want to go, guess. 247 00:14:21,286 --> 00:14:25,726 Speaker 3: What we're pregnant and for everyone to go yay, But 248 00:14:25,766 --> 00:14:28,286 Speaker 3: it was like, guess what we're pregnant, and you know, 249 00:14:28,566 --> 00:14:29,566 Speaker 3: my family. 250 00:14:29,286 --> 00:14:32,806 Speaker 4: Was like, oh my god, Oh my god. 251 00:14:33,166 --> 00:14:36,206 Speaker 3: And it was just like seeing a mirror of the 252 00:14:36,286 --> 00:14:39,246 Speaker 3: horrible situation that you were facing every time we had 253 00:14:39,246 --> 00:14:41,606 Speaker 3: to break the news to them, and for me, it 254 00:14:41,806 --> 00:14:44,726 Speaker 3: was just so horrible, kind of feeling like this is 255 00:14:44,766 --> 00:14:48,126 Speaker 3: not the way that we wanted to celebrate the announcement. 256 00:14:47,646 --> 00:14:51,206 Speaker 4: Of our child. So it was, yeah, that was pretty 257 00:14:51,206 --> 00:14:55,526 Speaker 4: hard to deal with coming up. And then all of 258 00:14:55,566 --> 00:15:00,446 Speaker 4: a sudden outcomes this baby three point one kilos perfect, 259 00:15:00,966 --> 00:15:05,086 Speaker 4: you know, ten fingers, ten toes. I just couldn't believe it. 260 00:15:09,286 --> 00:15:13,166 Speaker 1: So you start taking the interfere on, your pregnancy starts progressing. 261 00:15:14,366 --> 00:15:18,646 Speaker 1: How is your not just your physical health, but I 262 00:15:18,646 --> 00:15:22,046 Speaker 1: imagine your mental health would have really struggled during this time. 263 00:15:22,086 --> 00:15:25,766 Speaker 1: Did you stop working for a while, did you what 264 00:15:25,966 --> 00:15:29,246 Speaker 1: was your kind of battle plan for your mind? 265 00:15:29,886 --> 00:15:30,806 Speaker 4: It's so bizarre. 266 00:15:30,886 --> 00:15:36,406 Speaker 3: So I've had anxiety since my early twenties, and I 267 00:15:36,486 --> 00:15:40,726 Speaker 3: think it's that whole adage that when you're healthy, you 268 00:15:40,766 --> 00:15:43,886 Speaker 3: have a thousand problems, when you're sick, you have one. 269 00:15:45,086 --> 00:15:48,686 Speaker 3: And that really puts into perspective exactly how I was feeling, 270 00:15:48,726 --> 00:15:53,006 Speaker 3: because I was such an anxious person before all this happened, 271 00:15:53,046 --> 00:15:56,766 Speaker 3: and then I kind of it gave me this opportunity 272 00:15:56,806 --> 00:15:57,686 Speaker 3: to pause and go. 273 00:15:58,326 --> 00:16:01,886 Speaker 4: Why the fuck was I so stressed about deadlines and 274 00:16:01,966 --> 00:16:03,926 Speaker 4: all of these things that really don't matter in the 275 00:16:03,966 --> 00:16:07,806 Speaker 4: scheme of things. And so I just, for the first 276 00:16:07,886 --> 00:16:11,206 Speaker 4: time in so long, I was mindful and I was present, 277 00:16:11,486 --> 00:16:14,886 Speaker 4: and I was like, Wow, I might have a long life, 278 00:16:14,886 --> 00:16:17,526 Speaker 4: but I might also have a short life to live. 279 00:16:17,686 --> 00:16:19,766 Speaker 4: I'd better start. 280 00:16:19,486 --> 00:16:23,206 Speaker 3: Enjoying it and be present and appreciating the time I have. 281 00:16:24,206 --> 00:16:29,286 Speaker 3: And the anxiety just fell away, and I'd actually never 282 00:16:29,366 --> 00:16:33,486 Speaker 3: been in a weird, messed up way more full of 283 00:16:33,566 --> 00:16:36,326 Speaker 3: joy in my life because I was given this chance 284 00:16:36,406 --> 00:16:39,006 Speaker 3: to clear my mind of all of the bullshit that 285 00:16:39,606 --> 00:16:41,126 Speaker 3: was going on in my life that I used to 286 00:16:41,126 --> 00:16:46,486 Speaker 3: worry about, and literally just stop and spend time with 287 00:16:47,686 --> 00:16:51,286 Speaker 3: my own mind and just get outside and walk in 288 00:16:51,406 --> 00:16:54,486 Speaker 3: nature and connect with this little thing that was growing 289 00:16:54,526 --> 00:16:59,806 Speaker 3: inside me. I'd never felt such peace in my life. 290 00:16:59,846 --> 00:17:03,046 Speaker 3: It was so bizarre, and I look back and I go, wow, 291 00:17:03,086 --> 00:17:04,806 Speaker 3: I wish I could get back to that place. 292 00:17:05,686 --> 00:17:07,206 Speaker 4: Hasn't happened. I'd get close. 293 00:17:07,286 --> 00:17:12,086 Speaker 1: Sometimes you've had a mind shift, for sure. So you're 294 00:17:12,166 --> 00:17:16,726 Speaker 1: on these drugs, they're obviously monitoring you very closely. And 295 00:17:16,926 --> 00:17:21,526 Speaker 1: Barb is growing well and healthy and tours doing good 296 00:17:21,606 --> 00:17:22,606 Speaker 1: to find out the sex. 297 00:17:22,926 --> 00:17:26,446 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that was really nice because on my birthday, 298 00:17:26,486 --> 00:17:30,366 Speaker 3: this was August. I think I was in my halfway 299 00:17:30,406 --> 00:17:34,206 Speaker 3: through my second trimester by then, and I was feeling confident. 300 00:17:34,606 --> 00:17:35,486 Speaker 4: I was kind of at that. 301 00:17:35,486 --> 00:17:38,686 Speaker 3: Point where I was like, we could be okay here, 302 00:17:39,086 --> 00:17:41,046 Speaker 3: you know, and I'd started to feel all of the 303 00:17:41,046 --> 00:17:44,286 Speaker 3: pregnancy things. And funnily enough, despite all of the drama 304 00:17:44,326 --> 00:17:48,166 Speaker 3: at the beginning, actual pregnancy was fairly non eventful in 305 00:17:48,246 --> 00:17:51,726 Speaker 3: terms of like, he was growing at a pretty good rate. 306 00:17:52,166 --> 00:17:55,766 Speaker 3: Headsize was extremely large for his percentile, which was concerning. 307 00:17:56,486 --> 00:18:00,446 Speaker 3: But on my birthday, we decided that we were going 308 00:18:00,486 --> 00:18:05,646 Speaker 3: to do a gender reveal, so we gave the the 309 00:18:05,686 --> 00:18:08,766 Speaker 3: gender to the cake person, so we didn't know. When 310 00:18:08,766 --> 00:18:11,806 Speaker 3: we got all of my family together and being able 311 00:18:11,846 --> 00:18:16,766 Speaker 3: to celebrate. That kind of made up for the kind 312 00:18:16,806 --> 00:18:19,526 Speaker 3: of initial discovery that we were pregnant, which was so 313 00:18:19,646 --> 00:18:23,766 Speaker 3: filled with sadness and you know, trepidation. So it was 314 00:18:23,846 --> 00:18:25,926 Speaker 3: just such a great feeling to be able to be 315 00:18:26,006 --> 00:18:29,686 Speaker 3: there with our families and really celebrate, you know, this 316 00:18:29,686 --> 00:18:34,966 Speaker 3: this baby who was so far looking like he was 317 00:18:35,006 --> 00:18:36,086 Speaker 3: going to come into the world. 318 00:18:36,726 --> 00:18:37,406 Speaker 4: So it was a boy. 319 00:18:38,606 --> 00:18:42,086 Speaker 3: And then after that it was kind of just a 320 00:18:42,086 --> 00:18:44,006 Speaker 3: bit of a waiting game, and I was getting tested, 321 00:18:44,046 --> 00:18:47,326 Speaker 3: i think every second week to see how my levels 322 00:18:47,326 --> 00:18:53,166 Speaker 3: were going. And it was at about thirty five or 323 00:18:53,206 --> 00:18:55,846 Speaker 3: thirty four weeks which things started to look a little 324 00:18:55,886 --> 00:18:57,326 Speaker 3: bit scary. 325 00:18:57,326 --> 00:18:58,886 Speaker 1: The cancer side. 326 00:18:59,166 --> 00:19:03,166 Speaker 3: Yes, so at that point my cancer levels had been 327 00:19:04,286 --> 00:19:09,686 Speaker 3: they were growing, they were, but they were not rising 328 00:19:09,726 --> 00:19:14,086 Speaker 3: to the point that it was going to affect my 329 00:19:14,206 --> 00:19:18,926 Speaker 3: physical health and heading to that stage of acute lakemia. 330 00:19:19,006 --> 00:19:20,246 Speaker 4: Right. 331 00:19:20,326 --> 00:19:22,046 Speaker 3: But once it kind of started to hit the bit 332 00:19:22,046 --> 00:19:24,526 Speaker 3: of a threshold, then it would kind of almost proliferate, 333 00:19:24,526 --> 00:19:26,726 Speaker 3: cause if you think about the cell proliferations like two, 334 00:19:26,846 --> 00:19:30,206 Speaker 3: then four, then eight. So it was growing slowly at first, 335 00:19:30,246 --> 00:19:33,326 Speaker 3: but then it started to get a bit worrying, and 336 00:19:33,366 --> 00:19:39,206 Speaker 3: so my specialist said, look, let's we think you need 337 00:19:39,246 --> 00:19:43,206 Speaker 3: to be induced early, so like as soon as we can. 338 00:19:43,406 --> 00:19:46,406 Speaker 3: Four weeks is kind of the earliest that we think 339 00:19:46,446 --> 00:19:50,206 Speaker 3: we can induce you with the baby still being healthy enough, 340 00:19:50,246 --> 00:19:50,446 Speaker 3: you know. 341 00:19:51,126 --> 00:19:52,846 Speaker 1: So it's at the thirty six week mark. 342 00:19:53,126 --> 00:19:53,806 Speaker 4: Thirty six. 343 00:19:54,606 --> 00:19:56,846 Speaker 3: By this time, I was pretty big and this baby 344 00:19:56,926 --> 00:20:00,086 Speaker 3: was getting bigger and bigger by the day. So I 345 00:20:00,206 --> 00:20:05,046 Speaker 3: ended up being induced around I think it was like 346 00:20:05,086 --> 00:20:10,846 Speaker 3: the eleven of December, and he didn't want to come out. 347 00:20:11,606 --> 00:20:14,006 Speaker 4: He was really happy in there. 348 00:20:15,326 --> 00:20:20,206 Speaker 3: So ended up doing the sweep, which wasn't very fun. 349 00:20:21,046 --> 00:20:25,166 Speaker 3: Didn't want to come out. Still not happening. Then they're like, well, 350 00:20:25,206 --> 00:20:26,886 Speaker 3: the next thing we can do is a balloon catheter, 351 00:20:28,086 --> 00:20:30,606 Speaker 3: even less fun. And I just remember sitting in this 352 00:20:30,686 --> 00:20:33,526 Speaker 3: kind of room in the hospital that the RPA is 353 00:20:33,606 --> 00:20:36,326 Speaker 3: going because they'd give me the green dream. So I 354 00:20:36,366 --> 00:20:38,166 Speaker 3: was like wigging out a bit and I was like, 355 00:20:38,286 --> 00:20:41,406 Speaker 3: what is going on down there? And I just felt horrible. 356 00:20:42,526 --> 00:20:47,246 Speaker 3: But luckily the balloon catheter kicked things off, and so 357 00:20:47,406 --> 00:20:49,806 Speaker 3: we were yeah, it looked like things are about to 358 00:20:50,046 --> 00:20:51,846 Speaker 3: about to start coming together. 359 00:20:52,286 --> 00:20:54,446 Speaker 1: Did you have any oxytocin at this point? 360 00:20:54,686 --> 00:20:56,806 Speaker 4: Do you know what? I can't remember. I don't think so. 361 00:20:57,486 --> 00:20:59,726 Speaker 3: And then they're like, oh, yeah, things look like they're happening, 362 00:21:00,486 --> 00:21:03,686 Speaker 3: not enough. So that's when I had the oxytocin. And 363 00:21:03,726 --> 00:21:05,566 Speaker 3: it was when I had the oxytocin that they're like, 364 00:21:05,606 --> 00:21:06,286 Speaker 3: all right. 365 00:21:06,286 --> 00:21:06,926 Speaker 4: We are go. 366 00:21:07,046 --> 00:21:07,886 Speaker 1: Time came on. 367 00:21:08,486 --> 00:21:12,046 Speaker 3: So I was kind of of the mindset that like, 368 00:21:12,766 --> 00:21:15,886 Speaker 3: give me whatever drugs you need. I've had enough drama 369 00:21:15,926 --> 00:21:16,726 Speaker 3: in this pregnancy. 370 00:21:17,886 --> 00:21:18,086 Speaker 4: You know. 371 00:21:18,126 --> 00:21:20,526 Speaker 3: I love the idea of water births and home berths 372 00:21:20,526 --> 00:21:21,766 Speaker 3: and stuff like that. But I was like, if the 373 00:21:21,806 --> 00:21:25,126 Speaker 3: doctors are going to say do this, I'm just gonna 374 00:21:25,126 --> 00:21:27,966 Speaker 3: put my hand up see whatever, because who knows things 375 00:21:28,126 --> 00:21:31,006 Speaker 3: go really pear shaped? I don't know, So I'm just 376 00:21:31,006 --> 00:21:33,126 Speaker 3: going to try and go along for the ride. See 377 00:21:33,126 --> 00:21:36,806 Speaker 3: what happens. So I was like, yep, give me the epidural, please, 378 00:21:36,886 --> 00:21:37,366 Speaker 3: thank you. 379 00:21:38,846 --> 00:21:42,446 Speaker 4: And then I think it's about like an hour later, 380 00:21:42,526 --> 00:21:45,486 Speaker 4: like I was pretty like fully dilated by then or nearly. 381 00:21:46,206 --> 00:21:48,646 Speaker 4: I was in a lot of pain. I was like, 382 00:21:48,886 --> 00:21:50,726 Speaker 4: this is no, I don't want to do this. 383 00:21:50,886 --> 00:21:53,686 Speaker 3: Like I was exhausted because it had kind of come 384 00:21:53,726 --> 00:21:56,326 Speaker 3: on so quickly. Once the oxytocin kind of kicked in, 385 00:21:57,206 --> 00:21:59,686 Speaker 3: and they're like, you shouldn't be like this, like you've 386 00:21:59,686 --> 00:22:00,646 Speaker 3: had an epidural. 387 00:22:01,366 --> 00:22:03,486 Speaker 4: And the nurse came over and she's like, is this 388 00:22:03,566 --> 00:22:05,166 Speaker 4: can you feel this? And she put an ice pack 389 00:22:05,166 --> 00:22:08,086 Speaker 4: on my egg and I was like, yeah, that's freezing 390 00:22:08,126 --> 00:22:10,046 Speaker 4: and she's like oh and you know when they the 391 00:22:10,126 --> 00:22:13,966 Speaker 4: face and they're like I was like what. So she's like, 392 00:22:14,926 --> 00:22:17,486 Speaker 4: I might just have to speak to the anathetist. 393 00:22:18,646 --> 00:22:21,846 Speaker 3: So the anthesis comes back and she's like, look, I 394 00:22:21,846 --> 00:22:24,006 Speaker 3: don't think the epidural has properly worked. 395 00:22:24,166 --> 00:22:25,926 Speaker 4: And I was like, god, well. 396 00:22:25,766 --> 00:22:29,686 Speaker 3: Yeah, because I was like, this is really I'm dying here. 397 00:22:30,766 --> 00:22:34,046 Speaker 3: And so they luckily they gave it another crack. 398 00:22:34,526 --> 00:22:37,846 Speaker 4: And I was like once it kicked in, when you know, 399 00:22:37,926 --> 00:22:40,566 Speaker 4: you know, I was like, oh, this is what it's 400 00:22:40,606 --> 00:22:43,726 Speaker 4: supposed to feel like. So I'm reading mags it had 401 00:22:43,726 --> 00:22:45,486 Speaker 4: a nap, I had a nap. 402 00:22:45,406 --> 00:22:49,646 Speaker 3: Perfect, and then they're like, okay, it's time to you know, 403 00:22:49,766 --> 00:22:53,006 Speaker 3: start getting the child out. I was like, oh, okay, great, 404 00:22:53,086 --> 00:22:54,526 Speaker 3: and they're like yeah, okay, push and I was like 405 00:22:54,806 --> 00:22:56,846 Speaker 3: is this right? And you have to almost remember how 406 00:22:56,886 --> 00:22:59,446 Speaker 3: to push because you can't feel anything, and it's almost 407 00:22:59,486 --> 00:23:01,766 Speaker 3: like I think the second if. 408 00:23:01,686 --> 00:23:04,606 Speaker 4: Hee had like fully I couldn't feel a thing. 409 00:23:05,566 --> 00:23:07,806 Speaker 3: I was going, you know, what if I'm ripped from 410 00:23:08,206 --> 00:23:11,966 Speaker 3: you know, vadge to anus, So be it right because 411 00:23:12,006 --> 00:23:12,886 Speaker 3: I don't feel anything. 412 00:23:12,886 --> 00:23:15,526 Speaker 4: Now we can figure that out once. Yeah, sew me up, 413 00:23:16,206 --> 00:23:17,406 Speaker 4: Just sew me up exactly. 414 00:23:17,486 --> 00:23:19,726 Speaker 3: Just make sure, you know, there's a bit more of 415 00:23:19,726 --> 00:23:23,446 Speaker 3: this epidural stuff going on anyway. So I'm pushing because 416 00:23:23,486 --> 00:23:26,366 Speaker 3: this child's head like it was four weeks early, but 417 00:23:26,486 --> 00:23:28,366 Speaker 3: he was still a big kid. 418 00:23:28,846 --> 00:23:31,806 Speaker 4: I was pretty sure at this point. So they're like, yep, 419 00:23:31,966 --> 00:23:32,726 Speaker 4: just keep pushing. 420 00:23:33,686 --> 00:23:35,965 Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden out comes this baby, 421 00:23:37,286 --> 00:23:43,646 Speaker 3: three point one kilos, perfect, absolutely, you know, ten fingers, 422 00:23:43,646 --> 00:23:48,606 Speaker 3: ten toes, and I just couldn't believe it. Like, just 423 00:23:48,686 --> 00:23:51,646 Speaker 3: the the fact that this whole thing had come to 424 00:23:51,686 --> 00:23:56,366 Speaker 3: a head with this child in my arms was hard 425 00:23:56,406 --> 00:23:57,326 Speaker 3: to kind of fathom. 426 00:23:57,326 --> 00:23:59,286 Speaker 4: My guess. Took a couple of days for that to 427 00:23:59,726 --> 00:24:01,286 Speaker 4: really kick in. Actually it did. 428 00:24:01,326 --> 00:24:05,326 Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean I think that even without a 429 00:24:05,566 --> 00:24:10,726 Speaker 1: chemio diagnosis, seeing a child for the first time is remarkable. 430 00:24:10,846 --> 00:24:14,566 Speaker 1: But being told to terminate a pregnancy because of your 431 00:24:14,566 --> 00:24:18,646 Speaker 1: own health, pushing through and then delivering a perfectly healthy, 432 00:24:18,726 --> 00:24:22,206 Speaker 1: beautiful baby boy, you must have just been you and 433 00:24:22,286 --> 00:24:23,846 Speaker 1: Nick must have just been elated. 434 00:24:24,446 --> 00:24:27,566 Speaker 3: Do you know what the relief that I think after 435 00:24:27,606 --> 00:24:31,326 Speaker 3: I had him, you know, when you get the baby blues, 436 00:24:31,526 --> 00:24:34,965 Speaker 3: it was. That was pretty intense because it came I 437 00:24:34,966 --> 00:24:40,006 Speaker 3: felt like I'd almost subconsciously been like holding my breath 438 00:24:40,406 --> 00:24:43,806 Speaker 3: for nine months, and I'd been thinking so much about 439 00:24:43,846 --> 00:24:47,286 Speaker 3: my child, not myself, and so once that all came out, 440 00:24:47,566 --> 00:24:49,846 Speaker 3: I kind of got to think about myself for a minute, 441 00:24:49,846 --> 00:24:52,366 Speaker 3: and that's when I kind of had a real crash. 442 00:24:53,566 --> 00:24:57,286 Speaker 3: My mental health just kind of went in a way 443 00:24:57,366 --> 00:25:02,046 Speaker 3: because I'd kind of gotten through that and I'd been 444 00:25:02,086 --> 00:25:04,126 Speaker 3: surrounded by so much love, which was great, but then 445 00:25:04,166 --> 00:25:06,166 Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god. I hadn't even really 446 00:25:06,726 --> 00:25:09,126 Speaker 3: been thinking about the next step, like having a baby 447 00:25:09,126 --> 00:25:12,166 Speaker 3: and being a mom. You know, this was all stuff 448 00:25:12,206 --> 00:25:14,406 Speaker 3: that I think, you know, you've got that nine months 449 00:25:14,446 --> 00:25:16,006 Speaker 3: to prepare for, but in my mind, I was like, 450 00:25:16,166 --> 00:25:18,966 Speaker 3: just get through the day, just you know, survive, and 451 00:25:18,966 --> 00:25:21,486 Speaker 3: I was so present that I wasn't really thinking to 452 00:25:21,566 --> 00:25:23,326 Speaker 3: the future. So when I had the baby, I was like, 453 00:25:24,086 --> 00:25:26,206 Speaker 3: oh my god. And then I had to start treatment, 454 00:25:26,406 --> 00:25:30,126 Speaker 3: so that was like another thing. And yeah, it was 455 00:25:30,126 --> 00:25:32,366 Speaker 3: full on the first few weeks after having tour. 456 00:25:32,446 --> 00:25:36,286 Speaker 1: To be honest, yeah, how soon after having tour did 457 00:25:36,326 --> 00:25:39,086 Speaker 1: you start the treatment? 458 00:25:39,886 --> 00:25:44,006 Speaker 3: So after I had him, my levels went down, which 459 00:25:44,046 --> 00:25:47,326 Speaker 3: was really great, and I really wanted to try and 460 00:25:47,366 --> 00:25:50,886 Speaker 3: breastfeed if I could, just because you know, he'd been 461 00:25:51,206 --> 00:25:55,486 Speaker 3: in a body that was not well and I kind 462 00:25:55,486 --> 00:25:56,965 Speaker 3: of just really wanted to make sure that he had 463 00:25:56,966 --> 00:26:00,766 Speaker 3: a good kind of start. And so they said, look, 464 00:26:00,966 --> 00:26:02,686 Speaker 3: we can delay it a couple of weeks, and so 465 00:26:02,766 --> 00:26:06,126 Speaker 3: I think I had three or four weeks to breastfeed. 466 00:26:06,646 --> 00:26:10,446 Speaker 3: And I was so determined to fill the freezer up 467 00:26:10,526 --> 00:26:12,166 Speaker 3: that I was just like on a mission. 468 00:26:12,686 --> 00:26:15,846 Speaker 4: So I wasn't sleeping. I was like, you know, hardly eating, 469 00:26:15,926 --> 00:26:18,446 Speaker 4: and I just wanted to breastfeed. And you know the 470 00:26:18,526 --> 00:26:21,686 Speaker 4: emotional impact that it can have on you. I just 471 00:26:21,726 --> 00:26:24,526 Speaker 4: remember like sitting in my laund room with these pumps, 472 00:26:24,606 --> 00:26:29,006 Speaker 4: just like wailing. That's kind of the I guess, the 473 00:26:29,046 --> 00:26:31,926 Speaker 4: best or the clearest vision that I have those first 474 00:26:31,966 --> 00:26:34,846 Speaker 4: few weeks after tour. Unfortunately, Yeah, I know, all you 475 00:26:34,846 --> 00:26:35,686 Speaker 4: can hear is that. 476 00:26:38,766 --> 00:26:44,766 Speaker 1: And your body, you're feeling broken, you're exhausted, the baby 477 00:26:45,006 --> 00:26:47,686 Speaker 1: that it's like it is, you know, for those who 478 00:26:47,726 --> 00:26:53,566 Speaker 1: do have postpartum anxiety depression. It is very hard to 479 00:26:53,766 --> 00:27:00,006 Speaker 1: enjoy those golden weeks when you feel so awful. Yeah, 480 00:27:00,366 --> 00:27:03,446 Speaker 1: and it's hard to I think, to describe to a 481 00:27:03,446 --> 00:27:07,486 Speaker 1: lot of people how to challenging that is mentally when 482 00:27:09,046 --> 00:27:13,606 Speaker 1: you are feeling obviously very grateful, but your mind's not 483 00:27:13,886 --> 00:27:15,726 Speaker 1: in that same space. No. 484 00:27:16,526 --> 00:27:19,566 Speaker 3: I mean, you've done so much international travel in your time. 485 00:27:20,406 --> 00:27:23,206 Speaker 3: The best thing I can think about, like describing those 486 00:27:23,206 --> 00:27:26,965 Speaker 3: first few weeks is like I'd done trips to New 487 00:27:27,046 --> 00:27:33,606 Speaker 3: York in economy back and forth about twelve times. I 488 00:27:33,726 --> 00:27:35,486 Speaker 3: just didn't I couldn't figure out what. 489 00:27:35,526 --> 00:27:37,326 Speaker 4: Day it was. I didn't know who I was. I 490 00:27:37,366 --> 00:27:43,166 Speaker 4: was emotional, I was exhausted, I was hungry but stressed, 491 00:27:43,446 --> 00:27:46,326 Speaker 4: and yeah, no I did, to be fair, I did 492 00:27:46,446 --> 00:27:49,246 Speaker 4: not like the first six weeks. After that, it was 493 00:27:49,326 --> 00:27:51,766 Speaker 4: like the sun came out of the clouds. 494 00:27:51,846 --> 00:27:54,566 Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god, Okay, I've got this, 495 00:27:56,246 --> 00:27:57,926 Speaker 3: but yeah, I don't know. 496 00:27:57,966 --> 00:28:01,846 Speaker 4: It's like you're in this weird bubble. But not for me. 497 00:28:01,926 --> 00:28:02,886 Speaker 4: It wasn't in a good way. 498 00:28:03,486 --> 00:28:05,366 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you. With my first it was the 499 00:28:06,366 --> 00:28:09,126 Speaker 1: I was not in a good bubble. I was in 500 00:28:09,206 --> 00:28:15,886 Speaker 1: a it was very, very challenging. So I really empathized 501 00:28:15,926 --> 00:28:19,326 Speaker 1: with that. But then you started your treatment, your cancer 502 00:28:19,366 --> 00:28:25,326 Speaker 1: treatment with this four week old baby. What was that process? 503 00:28:25,526 --> 00:28:29,726 Speaker 3: Like, it's I feel like, I don't know, this sounds 504 00:28:29,806 --> 00:28:34,566 Speaker 3: really weird, but I feel like the first like couple 505 00:28:34,566 --> 00:28:38,726 Speaker 3: of years of having Taur, like I reckon the first 506 00:28:38,806 --> 00:28:42,086 Speaker 3: year and a half, I don't remember a lot, which 507 00:28:42,366 --> 00:28:45,566 Speaker 3: sounds really weird, but I think because there's so much 508 00:28:45,646 --> 00:28:49,246 Speaker 3: repetition and routine that I look back at the photos 509 00:28:49,246 --> 00:28:51,126 Speaker 3: and I go, oh, yeah, you know that day, that day, 510 00:28:51,166 --> 00:28:54,446 Speaker 3: But it's almost like my body was like, nah, you 511 00:28:54,446 --> 00:28:57,406 Speaker 3: don't really need to remember kind of these moments where 512 00:28:57,446 --> 00:29:01,206 Speaker 3: you're a bit stressed. And I don't know, it was 513 00:29:01,366 --> 00:29:03,766 Speaker 3: like that all of the anxiety that I managed to 514 00:29:03,846 --> 00:29:05,886 Speaker 3: kind of keep away and just kind of flew in 515 00:29:05,926 --> 00:29:09,086 Speaker 3: a bit, and yeah, I started to kind of get 516 00:29:09,086 --> 00:29:11,086 Speaker 3: a little bit stressed about you know, now I had 517 00:29:11,086 --> 00:29:14,846 Speaker 3: this other, like my heart was just in front of me, 518 00:29:15,566 --> 00:29:18,126 Speaker 3: and now I had to look after this child, and 519 00:29:18,286 --> 00:29:19,846 Speaker 3: so I started to kind of go, oh, my god, 520 00:29:19,886 --> 00:29:22,086 Speaker 3: I'm going to put my stress on you, and then 521 00:29:22,086 --> 00:29:24,006 Speaker 3: I'm going to put my stress on like everything that 522 00:29:24,046 --> 00:29:27,246 Speaker 3: I eat, because I you know, I want to look 523 00:29:27,286 --> 00:29:29,846 Speaker 3: after myself, and so I just I became a little 524 00:29:29,846 --> 00:29:33,166 Speaker 3: bit neurotic, and I think that that was not a 525 00:29:33,206 --> 00:29:36,006 Speaker 3: good good time of my life in a lot of ways. 526 00:29:36,806 --> 00:29:40,126 Speaker 3: And I did enjoy moments of motherhood that was probably 527 00:29:40,206 --> 00:29:42,246 Speaker 3: you know, being with tour and interacting with him were 528 00:29:42,246 --> 00:29:45,566 Speaker 3: the highlights. But the rest of it, just that readjustment 529 00:29:46,766 --> 00:29:49,166 Speaker 3: was a bit tough, and I really don't feel like 530 00:29:49,206 --> 00:29:51,206 Speaker 3: I found my feet as a mom until he was 531 00:29:51,246 --> 00:29:51,926 Speaker 3: about three. 532 00:29:52,326 --> 00:29:57,206 Speaker 1: To be fair, I don't think that that's that abnormal. Honestly. 533 00:29:57,766 --> 00:30:02,526 Speaker 1: I often tell moms, like a year the first birthday party, 534 00:30:02,566 --> 00:30:07,046 Speaker 1: that's celebration of you, like you that, like you did that, 535 00:30:07,246 --> 00:30:10,686 Speaker 1: and then you're also going through all of your other stuff. 536 00:30:10,766 --> 00:30:13,046 Speaker 1: But you know, here we are, we're nine years later, 537 00:30:14,446 --> 00:30:18,126 Speaker 1: and thankfully you were still here with us. Yes, are 538 00:30:18,126 --> 00:30:19,646 Speaker 1: you still on your treatments? 539 00:30:19,846 --> 00:30:20,206 Speaker 4: Yeah? 540 00:30:20,286 --> 00:30:25,726 Speaker 3: So look, I mean it's something that I am potentially 541 00:30:25,766 --> 00:30:29,246 Speaker 3: going to be on permanently. But I mean the work 542 00:30:29,286 --> 00:30:33,326 Speaker 3: that the Lakemi Foundation is doing to you know, fund research, 543 00:30:33,846 --> 00:30:36,526 Speaker 3: and I think after COVID as well, I feel like 544 00:30:36,646 --> 00:30:42,086 Speaker 3: medical research really started to hit it stride and there's 545 00:30:42,126 --> 00:30:45,086 Speaker 3: almost that compound effect. And I really do feel like 546 00:30:46,486 --> 00:30:49,126 Speaker 3: with such a tension on the medical world, we're getting 547 00:30:49,126 --> 00:30:52,286 Speaker 3: closer and closer to a cure for the cancer that 548 00:30:52,326 --> 00:30:56,886 Speaker 3: I have. And if not, that's okay. You know, if 549 00:30:56,926 --> 00:31:01,606 Speaker 3: I lead a healthy lifestyle, I can continue on this medication, 550 00:31:01,806 --> 00:31:05,206 Speaker 3: which is great. And but look, I hope that you know, 551 00:31:05,246 --> 00:31:07,846 Speaker 3: for anyone who might not be you know, who might 552 00:31:07,846 --> 00:31:11,686 Speaker 3: have a cancer that perhaps hasn't found a really really 553 00:31:11,686 --> 00:31:14,446 Speaker 3: successful treatment, that all of this research is going to 554 00:31:15,246 --> 00:31:17,966 Speaker 3: sooner than later be able to change that for them. 555 00:31:18,206 --> 00:31:19,926 Speaker 3: And that's you know, that's I guess why I'm so 556 00:31:19,966 --> 00:31:23,206 Speaker 3: passionate about, you know, working with the Laky Foundation. 557 00:31:23,446 --> 00:31:28,606 Speaker 1: And yeah, Elle, you told that story so beautifully, and 558 00:31:29,526 --> 00:31:33,406 Speaker 1: I'm so happy that you have this beautiful, healthy nine 559 00:31:33,446 --> 00:31:37,166 Speaker 1: year old who is probably going through a very different 560 00:31:37,206 --> 00:31:38,486 Speaker 1: phase now as well. 561 00:31:38,806 --> 00:31:40,766 Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, yeah, next level. 562 00:31:41,006 --> 00:31:45,646 Speaker 1: But a truly truly remarkable story and a testament to 563 00:31:45,686 --> 00:31:51,006 Speaker 1: your strength and a testament to you know, your intuition 564 00:31:51,526 --> 00:31:55,726 Speaker 1: and faith in yourself. And thank you so much for 565 00:31:55,806 --> 00:31:58,766 Speaker 1: sharing it with us. And yeah, I'm so happy that 566 00:31:58,846 --> 00:32:00,886 Speaker 1: everything is good with you at the moment. 567 00:32:01,166 --> 00:32:02,646 Speaker 4: Well, thank you for letting me hear it. 568 00:32:06,606 --> 00:32:09,566 Speaker 1: With such a challenging pregnancy we wanted to get some 569 00:32:09,606 --> 00:32:13,686 Speaker 1: input from our resident obstetrician and gynecologists, doctor Bromin Devine. 570 00:32:14,246 --> 00:32:18,246 Speaker 1: So how does something as serious as a cancer diagnosis 571 00:32:18,406 --> 00:32:19,486 Speaker 1: affect a pregnancy. 572 00:32:20,126 --> 00:32:23,006 Speaker 5: Firstly, it's really important to acknowledge, as you did, that 573 00:32:23,286 --> 00:32:26,766 Speaker 5: this would be one of the most traumatic and overwhelming 574 00:32:26,806 --> 00:32:28,886 Speaker 5: and stressful things to have to deal with and so 575 00:32:28,926 --> 00:32:33,046 Speaker 5: many decisions to make. But so much progress has been 576 00:32:33,046 --> 00:32:36,286 Speaker 5: made in the last decade or so with the management 577 00:32:36,526 --> 00:32:40,046 Speaker 5: of pregnant women with a malignancy or with a cancer. 578 00:32:40,566 --> 00:32:43,926 Speaker 5: And the whole thing is that we take this wonderful 579 00:32:44,006 --> 00:32:49,606 Speaker 5: multidisciplinary approach, so a whole team of people with expertise 580 00:32:49,686 --> 00:32:52,486 Speaker 5: would work together. There'd be a big team of an 581 00:32:52,526 --> 00:32:56,926 Speaker 5: oncologist and OBS andnguny specialist, a high risk pregnancy specialist, 582 00:32:56,966 --> 00:33:02,166 Speaker 5: oncology nurse midwife, ninatal intensive care specialists and ninatal intensive 583 00:33:02,406 --> 00:33:07,806 Speaker 5: care nurses, psychologists all coming together to provide support for 584 00:33:07,886 --> 00:33:11,406 Speaker 5: the patient and for their family as well. When I 585 00:33:11,446 --> 00:33:13,646 Speaker 5: started my training back in the nineties, it was sort 586 00:33:13,646 --> 00:33:15,686 Speaker 5: of like, you've got cancer and you're pregnant. You've got 587 00:33:15,686 --> 00:33:17,766 Speaker 5: to terminate the pregnancy. There's no way we can treat 588 00:33:17,806 --> 00:33:20,366 Speaker 5: you for the cancer. And keep the pregnancy safe. But 589 00:33:20,406 --> 00:33:23,726 Speaker 5: there's so many different options now and what we try 590 00:33:23,766 --> 00:33:26,486 Speaker 5: to do is look at keeping Mum as healthy as 591 00:33:26,486 --> 00:33:29,486 Speaker 5: possible and Bubb as healthy as possible, and sometimes that 592 00:33:29,566 --> 00:33:32,526 Speaker 5: means having bub a bit early, but we take the 593 00:33:32,606 --> 00:33:35,086 Speaker 5: pregnancy as far as we can so that the bub 594 00:33:35,166 --> 00:33:38,246 Speaker 5: is born at a gestation where they're going to be healthy, 595 00:33:38,686 --> 00:33:41,886 Speaker 5: so that Mum can start treatment at an optimal time. 596 00:33:45,566 --> 00:33:49,086 Speaker 1: Darry Overbirth was hosted by me Kasanulou Kids with expert 597 00:33:49,166 --> 00:33:53,366 Speaker 1: input from doctor Bromwin. Divine and while we have you here, 598 00:33:53,406 --> 00:33:56,486 Speaker 1: We're on the hunt to share powerful, underrepresented stories from 599 00:33:56,486 --> 00:34:00,686 Speaker 1: people of all cultures, backgrounds, and abilities, so please get 600 00:34:00,686 --> 00:34:04,926 Speaker 1: in touch. This episode was produced by Tina Mattaloff and 601 00:34:05,046 --> 00:34:09,646 Speaker 1: my Soul caseny Lukis, with audio production by Leah Porgius. 602 00:34:10,926 --> 00:34:13,766 Speaker 1: Looking for something else to listen to that's baby related, 603 00:34:14,125 --> 00:34:17,725 Speaker 1: The pregnancy podcast Hello Bump could be the audio companion 604 00:34:17,886 --> 00:34:21,245 Speaker 1: you've been searching for. The latest season is a week 605 00:34:21,246 --> 00:34:24,085 Speaker 1: by week guide to pregnancy, holding your hand through the 606 00:34:24,165 --> 00:34:29,205 Speaker 1: exciting and sometimes exhausting changes that happen to you and 607 00:34:29,286 --> 00:34:34,486 Speaker 1: your baby during pregnancy. Join Olympian urn doctor Yana Pittman. 608 00:34:34,766 --> 00:34:37,765 Speaker 1: As she guides mom to Bee Grace Roofray through each 609 00:34:37,846 --> 00:34:41,966 Speaker 1: stage of her very first pregnancy. This is a podcast 610 00:34:42,006 --> 00:34:50,205 Speaker 1: about what you're not expecting when you're expecting. Mamma Mia 611 00:34:50,326 --> 00:34:53,806 Speaker 1: acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. We have recorded 612 00:34:53,806 --> 00:34:57,245 Speaker 1: this podcast on the Gatigul people of the Eora Nation. 613 00:34:58,006 --> 00:35:00,806 Speaker 1: We pay our respects to their elders past and present, 614 00:35:01,205 --> 00:35:04,486 Speaker 1: and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Rate 615 00:35:04,565 --> 00:35:05,446 Speaker 1: Islander cultures.