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Speaker 1: You're listening to I'MM with mea podcast.

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Speaker 2: I used to write letters to celebrities and honestly, quite

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Speaker 2: a lot of them replied, So I thought i'd run

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Speaker 2: you through who is in my autograph collection?

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Speaker 3: Welcome back everyone, I'm a Shiny Dante. And this is

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Speaker 3: but Are You Happy? A mom with Mere podcast for

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Speaker 3: people who love self growth, self development, and self sabotage.

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Speaker 2: And Hello listeners and viewers. I'm doctor Anasta. Her ownis

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Speaker 2: clinical Psychologists.

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Speaker 3: If you've clicked on this episode, chances are you've heard

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Speaker 3: the term parasocial relationships being thrown around online, or maybe

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Speaker 3: you've had a thought to yourself where you wondered, wait,

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Speaker 3: why do I actually feel like I know this person?

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Speaker 2: Today we're going to be diving into what a parasocial

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Speaker 2: relationship actually is, how it can be both healthy but

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Speaker 2: also perhaps unhealthy, and how you can check in with

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Speaker 2: yourself if you feel like the boundaries are getting blow.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Are there any celebrities or influencers or just public

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Speaker 2: figures that you're low key obsessed with?

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Speaker 3: So it's really interesting because I'm like, obsessed is such

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Speaker 3: a subjective thing, right, But yeah, I would say, I'm

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Speaker 3: nervous for people to judging, but that's okay. We're all

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Speaker 3: open to our own expressions. I love the Kardashians, I

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Speaker 3: have to say, I watch the reality TV show, so

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Speaker 3: you know, we're talking about parasocial relationships. But it does

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Speaker 3: feel like I know them, But like, I don't think I'm.

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Speaker 1: Obsessed with them.

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Speaker 3: I think the things that I like about them is that,

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Speaker 3: you know, they're like this matriarchal energy. They're all building

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Speaker 3: their own careers. They're literally getting paid to do things

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Speaker 3: they love. So there's like things that I admire about them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, do you feel like you know them?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting because I don't think I know, like

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Speaker 3: I know them from what I see from the reality

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Speaker 3: TV show, because that's kind of like I would say,

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Speaker 3: I'm not into the Housewives, I'm not into maths. Like

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Speaker 3: I don't watch all these other reality TV but the

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Speaker 3: Kardashians I've always like watched.

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Speaker 1: So long term fans, long term fan and follower. But

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Speaker 1: you know, I think from what I because it is.

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Speaker 3: A reality TV show, right, So I'm like, I feel

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Speaker 3: like I do know them from what I see?

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Speaker 1: Yes, So yeah, how about.

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Speaker 2: You a big like celebrity that I yeah, Jimmy Barnes.

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Speaker 4: Oh Jimmy barr M.

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Speaker 1: I did not pick that is so far.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but not like like you know, I know, he

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Speaker 2: had surgery the other year and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I hope Jimmy gets better, you know, like to cancel

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Speaker 2: some shows. Like it was really sad, but like and

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Speaker 2: I watched like documentaries about him and stuff. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: love col Chisel, but yeah, that would be mine. But

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Speaker 2: I can't say like I feel like I know who

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Speaker 2: he is or much about him, Like I haven't sort

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Speaker 2: of like followed the in depth kind of aspects of

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Speaker 2: his life.

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Speaker 4: I know the headlines and that's about it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. It's it's interesting because I don't really know anything

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Barnes, here's the scene, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, girl, do I ask?

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Speaker 1: That's so funny.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's interesting too because it also just this

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Speaker 3: topic around like fandom and all these things. It gets

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Speaker 3: me thinking back to the episode we did on cults

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Speaker 3: and fandom and we and that was last season. For

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Speaker 3: anyone that hasn't listened to it, go check it out.

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Speaker 3: But it reminded me when we spoke about the Swifties

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Speaker 3: MM hmmm as well. And you know, it does get

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Speaker 3: me thinking more about this term parasocial relationships, Like, I

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Speaker 3: actually don't know too much about it before we started

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Speaker 3: prepping for this episode.

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Speaker 1: So I'm keti from you, Like, what actually is it?

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Speaker 2: Yes, So a parasocial relationship is this idea of a

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Speaker 2: person developing a bond with someone that they're exposed to online,

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Speaker 2: so like an influencer, a celebrity. But there's a few

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Speaker 2: key features about a parasocial relationship.

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Speaker 4: It's one sided.

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Speaker 2: So we are looking at the celeb and we're developing

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Speaker 2: this sometimes quite intense emotional attachment with them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's not reciprocal.

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Speaker 2: The celebrity doesn't know who we are, they don't know

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Speaker 2: we exist, they don't know anything about us.

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Speaker 4: It's very one sided.

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Speaker 2: And for the person who's developing that bond and has

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Speaker 2: those feelings, it can actually feel really quite.

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Speaker 4: Intense and real for them, Like the.

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Speaker 2: Person scrolling social media watching their stories, you know, watching

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Speaker 2: their posts, can really feel like they're developing this emotional

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Speaker 2: attachment to the celebrity and feeling like they're really getting

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Speaker 2: to know who they are.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's true, and like it just goes

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Speaker 3: to show too, how much the algorithms do play to

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Speaker 3: what we look at. So the more that we look

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Speaker 3: at one thing, it's going to keep perpetuating that. Like

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Speaker 3: I know, for example, Haley Beeber came to Australia recently

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Speaker 3: for the launch of her skin care product Road and

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Speaker 3: it was such a buzz and I knew the minute

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Speaker 3: I saw a clip on my TikTok that my algorithm

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Speaker 3: was going to fuel it. So then I noticed this

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Speaker 3: last couple of days or like when she was in Australia,

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Speaker 3: it was just covering my feet and I'm like, I

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Speaker 3: can't get rid of this.

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Speaker 1: It's just here.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: That's so interesting because this is the first time hearing

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Speaker 2: that shit, even in the country.

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Speaker 1: It's so funny. We're all in our little echoes.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's creepy when you realize, but it is sad

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Speaker 3: too because it gets me thinking. I'm like, oh, it

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Speaker 3: makes me sad because it's a one sided relationship, like

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Speaker 3: the other person genuinely thinks that there is this bond

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Speaker 3: and it's sad because it's like they're in this fantasy world. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, there can be degrees of this illusion that occurs, right,

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Speaker 2: This illusion of intimacy or illusion of attachment. And I

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Speaker 2: think certainly for some people, you know, they've got that

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Speaker 2: conscious awareness that yes, I'm liking all these celebs posts

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Speaker 2: and I'm commenting on all their posts, but they don't

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Speaker 2: know who I am, Whereas I think for other people,

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Speaker 2: that kind of illusion can you know, go a step

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Speaker 2: further where they really do actually perhaps feel like they

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Speaker 2: almost develop some maybe sort of fantastical or magical thinking,

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Speaker 2: thinking that the celebrity is talking to them, or you know,

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Speaker 2: if they reply to a comment that oh, wow, they've

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Speaker 2: seen me, they've noticed me, and that means something.

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Speaker 4: More than it does.

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Speaker 2: But I think the world of social media is so

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Speaker 2: fascinating as it applies to parasocial relationships because the idea

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Speaker 2: of parasocial relationships was first coined like in the nineteen fifties,

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Speaker 2: and the two researchers who first wrote about it wrote

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Speaker 2: about it at a time where TV was just sort

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Speaker 2: of taking off. So we'd had radio, but then we

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Speaker 2: had you know, TV come about, and TV's being in

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Speaker 2: homes more and more, and so people were watching through

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Speaker 2: their you know TV little boxes back in the day,

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Speaker 2: people on the screen and feeling like they were developing

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Speaker 2: relationships with these news anchors and hosts and actors and

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Speaker 2: actresses or even sometimes characters in movies.

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Speaker 4: Right, it doesn't have to be a real person.

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Speaker 2: We can have that same feeling towards a character in

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Speaker 2: a movie. But the difference I guess then was there

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Speaker 2: was less of a capacity for that public person to

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Speaker 2: interact that and if we watched TV, it was really

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Speaker 2: one side.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, But fast forward.

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Speaker 2: To the days of you know, YouTubers and influencers and

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Speaker 2: social media, and what we actually do see is that

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Speaker 2: a lot of these public figures engage with their audience

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Speaker 2: and that might mean responding to dms or responding to comments,

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Speaker 2: or you know, live YouTube streams where they're engaged with

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Speaker 2: people who are commenting in the live chats. And so

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Speaker 2: I think it adds this really interesting extra layer to

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Speaker 2: parasocial relationships than from when it was originally coined, because

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Speaker 2: there is some reciprocity.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is true.

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Speaker 3: It's like it's been amplified now because of the way

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Speaker 3: that celebrities interact with their fans now. And it's interesting

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Speaker 3: too because I'm like, oh, it is their job, you know,

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Speaker 3: like that's their job, and I.

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Speaker 1: Don't know, like their world of it.

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Speaker 3: I'm not a celebrity, but like, you know, because that

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Speaker 3: is their job, that's how they show up. And it's

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Speaker 3: just hard because it just amplifies on the other end

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Speaker 3: thinking that, oh wow, like Hayley Beaber liked my.

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Speaker 1: Comment, Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 3: And I've definitely seen people who do like reels on

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Speaker 3: you know, a celebrities commented or take the swifts, reshared

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Speaker 3: something and then they have a freak out moment where

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Speaker 3: they feel like they really are developing this relationship.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it actually gets.

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Speaker 3: Me thinking more about, you know, why do parasocial relationships

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Speaker 3: develop in the first place.

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot to be said as to why

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Speaker 2: these parasocial relationships actually exist and develop.

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Speaker 4: And I think we can kind of break it.

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Speaker 2: Down into two broad categories of features. We might look

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Speaker 2: at one being sort of features that are specific to

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Speaker 2: the person who's developed the parasocial relationship, but then also

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Speaker 2: elements as to how people online who are celebrities and

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Speaker 2: influencers are actually showing up online. So you know, we

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Speaker 2: talked about this ability for real time engagement with a celebrity,

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Speaker 2: but also if we think about the types of posts

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Speaker 2: that are online and that celebrities might be sharing and

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Speaker 2: are perhaps encouraged to share, right.

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Speaker 4: Like, let's be real here, a lot.

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Speaker 2: Of this is manufactured and intentional. You know, celebrities and

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Speaker 2: public figures will share a lot of very vulnerable information

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Speaker 2: about their lives with the purpose of presenting themselves in

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Speaker 2: a way that is authentic but also feels relatable to

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Speaker 2: the person on the other end of the screen. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we've seen this recent rise in people filming themselves like

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Speaker 2: crying or putting it on social media. You know, we

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Speaker 2: hear about celebrities that will share, you know, traumatic experiences

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Speaker 2: they've been through, a very like heart wrenching, heartfelt experiences

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Speaker 2: they've been through that have been really hard, and of

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Speaker 2: course for us, as empathetic human people on the other

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Speaker 2: end of.

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Speaker 4: The screen, we feel something when we hear that.

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Speaker 2: Now, the difficulty here is, or the issue is that

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Speaker 2: if we develop a one on one friendship, right, if

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Speaker 2: you and I meet for the first time, it's unlikely

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Speaker 2: that I'm just gonna like tell you all the hard

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Speaker 2: or traumatic things that have happened to me in my

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Speaker 2: life in one go, Right, that would probably be pretty overwhelming. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: but it's kind of what we get from some celebrity posts,

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Speaker 2: and so it creates this sort of feeling of intimacy

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Speaker 2: much faster than would develop in an actual friendship and interaction.

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Speaker 3: It's a good way to actually unpack it in that way,

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Speaker 3: because it's true, like you know, I definitely see that,

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Speaker 3: you know, vulnerability does get good engagement. You know, people

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Speaker 3: see themselves in it. They find it inspiring, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I mean I get inspired as well when I see

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Speaker 3: content out there that's really encouraging people to live an

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Speaker 3: authentic life or honest, it's honest, it's real, And I

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Speaker 3: think that's great on a platform like Instagram or TikTok.

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Speaker 3: But I think it's hard too because the impact that

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Speaker 3: can have on other people. And then it just it's

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Speaker 3: like this cycle, it's it becomes like it feeds each other,

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Speaker 3: do you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: The other thing that we see with the way in

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Speaker 2: which content is shared from celebrities is that not just

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Speaker 2: is it vulnerable, not just is it with the capacity

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Speaker 2: for some sort of reciprocal interaction, but it's also very frequent.

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Speaker 2: If we think about like how often people post, like

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Speaker 2: sometimes it's daily that they're sharing, you know, parts of

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Speaker 2: their lives online and so this frequency is also really

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Speaker 2: interesting because again, if.

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Speaker 4: I go back to, you know, in the fifties.

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Speaker 2: When parasocial relationships was coined, and we're talking about the

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Speaker 2: TV you see that you know, news anchor for you know,

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Speaker 2: a brief period of time, perhaps at a specific time

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Speaker 2: slot each day, or you know that actress in a

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Speaker 2: TV show, But it's not that kind of personal sharing

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Speaker 2: that happens minute by minute, day by day in the

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Speaker 2: way that it can with social media. And so the

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Speaker 2: person on the other end consuming this content can feel

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Speaker 2: like they're growing alongside the influencer or a celebrity.

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Speaker 4: So it's a whole different layer that gets added.

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Speaker 3: To parasocial relations So, I know you've kind of spoken

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Speaker 3: to more of like the content and all of that

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Speaker 3: out there. So but what about the person that is

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Speaker 3: developing that relationship, like that parasocial relationship, Like why do

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Speaker 3: they develop that in the first place.

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Speaker 2: So there's certain factors that might make a person more

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Speaker 2: or less likely to develop a parasocial relationship. From just

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Speaker 2: a like human wiring perspective, We're wired to bond with people. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's that's just part of us human nature. It's in

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Speaker 2: our DNA and the thing is, the brain's actually not

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Speaker 2: very good at knowing the difference between what's real and

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Speaker 2: what's kind of imagined. So when we see a person

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Speaker 2: on TV or on our phone being vulnerable and authentic

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Speaker 2: and feeling like a real person, our body responds quite

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Speaker 2: similarly to how it would if that person was sitting

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Speaker 2: in front.

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Speaker 4: Of us talking to us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's just kind of basic for all of

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Speaker 2: us from like a human biology perspective. But in terms

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Speaker 2: of people developing parasocial relationships, there is a whole body

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Speaker 2: of research out there on this that looks at the factors.

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Speaker 4: That might contribute.

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Speaker 2: So one of the things that is said to potentially

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Speaker 2: contribute to the development of parasocial relationships is feelings of loneliness.

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Speaker 4: So if I feel more.

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Speaker 2: Lonely and isolated in my day to day life, if

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Speaker 2: I feel like I don't have that those in real

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Speaker 2: life connections, I may be more likely to develop those

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Speaker 2: emotional bonds that are not reciprocal with people online. That said,

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Speaker 2: there is also another body of research that somewhat contradicts

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Speaker 2: this and says that actually, people who are highly social

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Speaker 2: in their day to day life might be also more

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Speaker 2: likely to form parasocial relationships. Because they're just very attuned

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Speaker 2: to emotionally attuned to other people, they're more likely to

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Speaker 2: sort of form lots of bonds in their day to

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Speaker 2: day life, and this applies to both in real life

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Speaker 2: and parasocial bonds.

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Speaker 3: That's confusing, so really could be anyone. Anyone, We're all

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Speaker 3: in parasocial relationships, guys.

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Speaker 2: There's actually a model that's been proposed to explain kind

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Speaker 2: of extreme celebrity fandom, and it's called the absorption addiction model.

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Speaker 2: So it's proposed in two thousand and two, but it's

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Speaker 2: been well researched. I was even reading a research paper

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Speaker 2: that was from just twenty twenty four really delving into

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Speaker 2: why is it that people develop these parasocial relationships, and

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Speaker 2: so the absorption addiction model basically says that there is

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Speaker 2: potentially something missing in a person's life, some sort of

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Speaker 2: emotional need that they're not getting met, and that when

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Speaker 2: they consume content from a celebrity, they become absorbed in

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Speaker 2: it because it fills that need, whether that's belonging, whether

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Speaker 2: that's feelings of connection, whether that's emotional validation that we

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Speaker 2: can kind of get through similar experiences from celebrities, whatever

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Speaker 2: it might be, there's something kind of not being met,

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Speaker 2: and so when I consume content, I get absorbed in that,

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Speaker 2: and then that feeling can feel really good, and so

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Speaker 2: it kind of develops this somewhat addictive element to it,

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Speaker 2: so that we keep going back and consuming more and

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Speaker 2: more of that content.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting because it sounds like it's a form of

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Speaker 3: escapism as well, because it's like you're getting sucked into

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Speaker 3: this other world that's out there. And I'm also curious

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Speaker 3: to know whether there'd be any data on just the

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Speaker 3: trend of fandom or parasocial relationships developing because we are

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Speaker 3: on our phone so much more, like I know, we

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Speaker 3: did an episode on why the phones are sucking up

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Speaker 3: our lives last season, So I'd just be curious to

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Speaker 3: know if there is stuff out there that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: I'm not actually sure, but I wouldn't be surprised, but

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Speaker 2: it makes sense the more that we're exposed to something,

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Speaker 2: the more we would expect it to develop. And also

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Speaker 2: it's I guess it's not just the exposure, but the

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Speaker 2: way in which I think parasocial relationships have been I

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Speaker 2: don't want to say taken advantage of in a negative way.

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Speaker 2: But like you know, celebrities and famous people know that

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Speaker 2: these relationships exist and so they can kind of utilize

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Speaker 2: them to their advantage.

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Speaker 4: So we see this through community building.

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Speaker 2: So you know you mentioned before the Swifties. Yeah, like

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Speaker 2: Taylor Swift, but I'm also a Swifty. I belong to

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Speaker 2: a community and that gives me some sense of belonging.

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Speaker 4: It meets some sort of emotional need.

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Speaker 2: It's like Lady Gaga I think, referred to her fans

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Speaker 2: as like monsters.

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Speaker 4: You know, she was like, oh, the monsters.

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Speaker 2: So you know beatle Mania, you get these kind of

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Speaker 2: like collectives that you can feel like you're a part

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Speaker 2: of as well. So not only do you develop this

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Speaker 2: potentially parasocial relationship with the celebrity themselves, but you also

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Speaker 2: get to kind of share in that with fellow followers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting you're talking about all these different types

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Speaker 3: of communities because it gets me thinking about like, is

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Speaker 3: there a difference then between being a fan versus a

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Speaker 3: parasocial relationship.

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Speaker 1: Or are they the same thing?

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Speaker 2: There is a difference. Yeah, Okay, I'll use my Jimmy

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Speaker 2: Barnes example. Right.

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Speaker 1: We love Jimmy.

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Speaker 2: I love Jimmy so you know, I'm a fan of Jimmy,

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Speaker 2: like a big.

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Speaker 4: Fan, big fan, love all his music.

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Speaker 2: If I had to do karaoke one night at a pub,

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Speaker 2: I'd probably pick a Cold Chisel.

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Speaker 4: Song, you know, like I'm a big fan of it.

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Speaker 3: I love how different we are because I just would

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Speaker 3: not I mean, I'm sure he's a great artist, but

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Speaker 3: I just.

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Speaker 2: But I wouldn't say I have a parasocial relationship with

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Speaker 2: him because I don't feel any kind of like emotional

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Speaker 2: attachment to him as a person. I love his music,

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Speaker 2: and I hope he's you know, well and happy and

350
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Speaker 2: safe and all the good stuff, but like, I don't

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Speaker 2: feel a bond with him as a person.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting too because it gets to me thinking,

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Speaker 3: you know, with the Kardashians, it's like I feel like

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Speaker 3: I know them only because of what I see on

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Speaker 3: reality TV. So I guess it's like a little bit different.

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Speaker 3: It's different, but I would say.

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Speaker 1: I'm a fan.

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Speaker 3: I don't think I have a parasocial relationship with them.

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Speaker 2: And here's the thing, right, parasocial relationships are not necessarily bad.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, this is good to know because I know

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Speaker 3: at the beginning, when we were unpacking. Like when we

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Speaker 3: start researching for this episode, even the term parasocial, it

363
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Speaker 3: does sound like it's in a horror film because it's

364
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Speaker 3: like paranormal. Yeah, the one I was like, why does

365
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Speaker 3: this ring a bell? Why do I get this eerie

366
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Speaker 3: feeling when I think of parasocial relationships?

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Speaker 2: Because if you if you put the prefixed para next

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Speaker 2: to something, so like paranormal, So para means like beyond

369
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Speaker 2: or beside, right, So in paranormal it's like beyond normal.

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Speaker 2: In parasocial, it's like beside social. Like if you imagine

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Speaker 2: the kind of parasocial relationship, it's it's not reciprocal. It's

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Speaker 2: almost like I'm alongside this person in a way.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's yeah, you don't know that about para.

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Speaker 3: That's interesting, Okay, So then parasocial relationships aren't all that bad.

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Speaker 2: Not necessarily, Okay, they don't have to be. Some are,

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Speaker 2: but others are not. So you know, there's different kind

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Speaker 2: of levels. There's actually something called the the Celebrity Attitude scale.

378
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Speaker 3: And so impressed by all these models that are around,

379
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Speaker 3: Fantom researchers.

380
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Speaker 4: Have a questionnaire for everything.

381
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Speaker 2: Yeah, but the Celebrity Attitude Scale actually kind of categorizes

382
00:18:58,279 --> 00:19:02,639
Speaker 2: this potentially parasocial relationship or celebrity fandom that we can

383
00:19:02,679 --> 00:19:05,559
Speaker 2: have in sort of three categories, the first being that

384
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Speaker 2: real just sense of I'm just a fan. I like

385
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Speaker 2: their music, I like their art, I like them as

386
00:19:09,839 --> 00:19:12,239
Speaker 2: a person, but I don't feel the bond. The next

387
00:19:12,239 --> 00:19:15,479
Speaker 2: category relates to I like them and I feel some

388
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Speaker 2: sort of emotional bond to them.

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Speaker 4: And then the kind of.

390
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Speaker 2: Third category being the more extreme form of that where

391
00:19:21,879 --> 00:19:25,119
Speaker 2: there is more of that obsession that develops. But certainly

392
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Speaker 2: that kind of first and even second category doesn't necessarily

393
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Speaker 2: have to be bad. You know, for us to be

394
00:19:30,199 --> 00:19:33,319
Speaker 2: fans and to feel connected to someone we see online

395
00:19:33,679 --> 00:19:37,879
Speaker 2: isn't necessarily a bad thing unless it starts to take

396
00:19:37,919 --> 00:19:40,439
Speaker 2: away from things in our day to day life. You know,

397
00:19:40,439 --> 00:19:43,599
Speaker 2: if we start using that parasocial relationship to fill the

398
00:19:43,719 --> 00:19:46,919
Speaker 2: void of loneliness or a need for belonging and then

399
00:19:46,959 --> 00:19:48,559
Speaker 2: we no longer go out in the real world and

400
00:19:48,639 --> 00:19:50,799
Speaker 2: do that, well, then yes, that's going to become a problem.

401
00:19:51,159 --> 00:19:54,479
Speaker 3: So what about the people who are like literally waiting

402
00:19:54,519 --> 00:19:57,039
Speaker 3: for Harry Styles to come out of his hotel or

403
00:19:57,079 --> 00:19:59,479
Speaker 3: waiting for Kendall Jenner, You know, there's people like that.

404
00:19:59,679 --> 00:20:02,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's lots of them right account on this.

405
00:20:03,599 --> 00:20:06,199
Speaker 2: You see the footage of like heaps of people just

406
00:20:06,199 --> 00:20:08,879
Speaker 2: like waiting outside the hotel for the celebrity to exit

407
00:20:08,919 --> 00:20:13,399
Speaker 2: and stuff. And I mean, look, it's a hard one,

408
00:20:13,479 --> 00:20:15,559
Speaker 2: right because if you're like, you know what, I'm a

409
00:20:15,599 --> 00:20:16,639
Speaker 2: big fan of this person.

410
00:20:16,679 --> 00:20:18,799
Speaker 4: They're in the country. I want to catch a glimpse

411
00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:19,239
Speaker 4: of them.

412
00:20:19,159 --> 00:20:22,079
Speaker 2: I say, good on you, like do that. But if

413
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Speaker 2: you're like following them from like state to state or

414
00:20:24,719 --> 00:20:27,839
Speaker 2: country to country, and like, you know, entering into an

415
00:20:27,879 --> 00:20:30,319
Speaker 2: element that's like not healthy for you or the person

416
00:20:30,479 --> 00:20:32,959
Speaker 2: on the receiving end of that behavior, then we really

417
00:20:32,959 --> 00:20:35,519
Speaker 2: need to consider, like is this actually kind of healthy

418
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Speaker 2: or fun or is it sort of becoming something you know,

419
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Speaker 2: that we wouldn't want to be.

420
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Speaker 4: A part of.

421
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Speaker 3: After the shortbreak, what's the roadmap to getting out of

422
00:20:46,679 --> 00:20:48,799
Speaker 3: an unhealthy parasocial relationship?

423
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:49,799
Speaker 1: Stay with us?

424
00:20:51,479 --> 00:20:55,079
Speaker 3: Okay, So what happens if you've now found yourself in

425
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Speaker 3: an unhealthy parasocial relationship?

426
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Speaker 1: Like, how do we get out of it? Is it

427
00:20:58,919 --> 00:20:59,599
Speaker 1: even possible?

428
00:21:01,079 --> 00:21:01,919
Speaker 4: It is possible?

429
00:21:01,959 --> 00:21:02,799
Speaker 1: Great, this is good.

430
00:21:02,839 --> 00:21:03,479
Speaker 3: We want to do this.

431
00:21:03,479 --> 00:21:04,279
Speaker 4: It's a good start.

432
00:21:04,679 --> 00:21:08,799
Speaker 2: Possible so, and I guess we're really talking about unhealthy

433
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Speaker 2: parasocial relationships, because, as we said, they're not all bad.

434
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Speaker 2: But if you find that you're spending too much time

435
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,759
Speaker 2: engaging with someone's content, if you're thinking about them too much,

436
00:21:18,759 --> 00:21:20,519
Speaker 2: if there's just too much of a pull in that.

437
00:21:20,519 --> 00:21:23,919
Speaker 1: Direction, and also if they're coming up in your dreams, oh.

438
00:21:25,279 --> 00:21:26,919
Speaker 4: Moment or I use.

439
00:21:26,919 --> 00:21:28,559
Speaker 3: Something I want to tell us, well, because I was

440
00:21:28,599 --> 00:21:31,359
Speaker 3: obsessed with the Believers at one point, like I believe,

441
00:21:31,839 --> 00:21:34,159
Speaker 3: like Justin Bieber and Hailey Bieber, and I started to

442
00:21:34,279 --> 00:21:36,959
Speaker 3: dream about them and I was like, Okay, this is crazy.

443
00:21:36,999 --> 00:21:37,919
Speaker 1: I really didn't turn.

444
00:21:37,879 --> 00:21:40,319
Speaker 3: It back because anyways, that's just an extra tip.

445
00:21:40,599 --> 00:21:41,639
Speaker 1: If you're dreaming.

446
00:21:41,319 --> 00:21:44,279
Speaker 3: About them, the subconscious is telling you a lot.

447
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,599
Speaker 2: Okay, So what I recommend to people is kind of

448
00:21:47,719 --> 00:21:49,599
Speaker 2: take a step back, and we're going to think about

449
00:21:49,999 --> 00:21:52,839
Speaker 2: how do we regain balance, how do you start to

450
00:21:52,839 --> 00:21:56,799
Speaker 2: reflect on what this parasocial bond is actually doing for you?

451
00:21:57,319 --> 00:22:00,439
Speaker 2: And then lastly, how can you try and build more

452
00:22:00,479 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 2: sort of healthy reciprocal relationships in your life. Okay, So

453
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,199
Speaker 2: I've got a couple of questions that I'll read out

454
00:22:07,399 --> 00:22:10,439
Speaker 2: that perhaps listeners can reflect on for themselves if they're

455
00:22:10,479 --> 00:22:11,479
Speaker 2: thinking they might.

456
00:22:11,399 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 4: Be in an unhealthy parasocial relationship.

457
00:22:14,399 --> 00:22:19,199
Speaker 2: So ask yourself, is this taking time or energy away

458
00:22:19,319 --> 00:22:22,879
Speaker 2: from my work, my study, my sleep, or my in

459
00:22:22,999 --> 00:22:24,239
Speaker 2: person relationships?

460
00:22:24,279 --> 00:22:24,479
Speaker 3: You know?

461
00:22:24,479 --> 00:22:27,959
Speaker 2: Am I constantly checking on someone's content? Am I staying

462
00:22:28,039 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 2: up late so that I can keep up with what

463
00:22:29,919 --> 00:22:33,559
Speaker 2: they're posting? And is that taking anything away from other

464
00:22:33,599 --> 00:22:34,559
Speaker 2: aspects of my life?

465
00:22:35,959 --> 00:22:36,279
Speaker 4: Okay?

466
00:22:36,279 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 2: Second question, do you feel intense jealousy about perhaps this

467
00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:45,719
Speaker 2: person's partner or friends or do you feel rage at

468
00:22:45,799 --> 00:22:48,199
Speaker 2: anyone who criticizes them?

469
00:22:48,199 --> 00:22:48,999
Speaker 1: That's a good.

470
00:22:48,839 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 2: One, So these strong emotional responses that come up within

471
00:22:53,479 --> 00:22:56,799
Speaker 2: us only when we have a strong bond with someone.

472
00:22:58,279 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 2: Next one, do you feel like this celebrity or person?

473
00:23:02,199 --> 00:23:04,839
Speaker 2: Do you feel like they owe you something? Or do

474
00:23:04,919 --> 00:23:08,479
Speaker 2: you fantasize that you're secretly in a two way relationship?

475
00:23:09,319 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 2: Next one, do you feel noticeably more lonely, depressed or

476
00:23:12,639 --> 00:23:15,959
Speaker 2: empty if you can't access their content or perhaps if

477
00:23:15,999 --> 00:23:17,199
Speaker 2: they haven't posted content?

478
00:23:18,919 --> 00:23:20,519
Speaker 4: And then last question.

479
00:23:20,639 --> 00:23:24,319
Speaker 2: Think about what is this bond giving you? What is

480
00:23:24,319 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 2: it perhaps feeling in your life that you might not

481
00:23:26,519 --> 00:23:27,839
Speaker 2: be getting otherwise.

482
00:23:28,839 --> 00:23:31,839
Speaker 3: These are good questions because it's really getting you to

483
00:23:32,439 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 3: build your awareness about how it actually is impacting your

484
00:23:35,679 --> 00:23:38,679
Speaker 3: everyday life because we can get so sucked into our

485
00:23:38,759 --> 00:23:40,559
Speaker 3: phones and the worlds that it can create. But I

486
00:23:40,599 --> 00:23:42,759
Speaker 3: feel like these questions can kind of jolt us out

487
00:23:42,759 --> 00:23:43,319
Speaker 3: of it a bit.

488
00:23:43,639 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 2: Yes, and you might be listening to these questions being like, yeah,

489
00:23:46,439 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm really into this celebrity. But it

490
00:23:49,199 --> 00:23:51,559
Speaker 2: doesn't take time away from my work, it doesn't keep

491
00:23:51,599 --> 00:23:53,839
Speaker 2: me up late at night. I don't feel intense jealousy

492
00:23:53,919 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 2: or criticism. I'm not fantasizing about a relationship with them.

493
00:23:57,399 --> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 2: So actually, I've got this parasocial relationship, but it's not

494
00:24:00,479 --> 00:24:02,479
Speaker 2: causing problems for me, in which case.

495
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:03,559
Speaker 1: Great sounds healthy.

496
00:24:04,679 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 3: Someone's now reflected on all of those questions, like what's

497
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 3: the next step that they can take?

498
00:24:09,999 --> 00:24:12,999
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'd be encouraging someone to think about how

499
00:24:13,039 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 2: they can put boundaries in place for themselves. So this

500
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,559
Speaker 2: might be boundaries around screen time and how much of

501
00:24:19,639 --> 00:24:23,239
Speaker 2: this celebrities content you consume. It might be boundaries about

502
00:24:23,239 --> 00:24:26,559
Speaker 2: whether or not you're liking and commenting on their posts,

503
00:24:26,599 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 2: you know, consuming versus actively engaging with them. You might

504
00:24:30,239 --> 00:24:32,519
Speaker 2: do things like actually kind of log out of social

505
00:24:32,559 --> 00:24:35,039
Speaker 2: media accounts so that you're not automatically pulled back to

506
00:24:35,159 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 2: just sort of checking if there's any updates. But it's

507
00:24:37,479 --> 00:24:40,679
Speaker 2: really around this sort of sense of implementing boundaries for

508
00:24:40,719 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 2: yourself as the next.

509
00:24:41,519 --> 00:24:43,039
Speaker 1: Step that's really good.

510
00:24:43,079 --> 00:24:47,599
Speaker 3: And like if someone was to unmute or like to

511
00:24:47,719 --> 00:24:50,999
Speaker 3: mute an account or unfollow, would that be too much

512
00:24:50,999 --> 00:24:53,079
Speaker 3: of a drastic change or that would just depend on

513
00:24:53,159 --> 00:24:56,079
Speaker 3: how obsessed they are over this verson look, it.

514
00:24:56,039 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 4: Could, it could be a really useful thing.

515
00:24:57,719 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 2: I think that's where like individual difference comes into it.

516
00:25:00,279 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 2: Muting an account absolutely, I think the muting and unfollowing

517
00:25:04,839 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 2: differently depending on the person. For some people it's great

518
00:25:07,479 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 2: because it means they're not automatically seeing that content. For

519
00:25:10,759 --> 00:25:12,959
Speaker 2: other people, what it can lead to is an increase

520
00:25:12,959 --> 00:25:16,599
Speaker 2: in checking behavior. So actually much more so go back

521
00:25:16,639 --> 00:25:19,039
Speaker 2: and keep checking if here's your content. So it depends

522
00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:21,239
Speaker 2: on the person and how they might respond to those

523
00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:24,519
Speaker 2: types of barriers. The next thing I recommend people do

524
00:25:25,039 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 2: is think about what that parasocial relationship is giving them.

525
00:25:28,479 --> 00:25:31,079
Speaker 2: So is it some sort of emotional attachment, is it

526
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,399
Speaker 2: a feeling of intimacy? Is it some sort of sense

527
00:25:34,399 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 2: of belonging or connection, and once you've identified that, thinking

528
00:25:38,479 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 2: about how you can build ways in day to day

529
00:25:41,199 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 2: life to get that same need.

530
00:25:43,039 --> 00:25:44,759
Speaker 4: Mes is it that you need.

531
00:25:44,599 --> 00:25:47,719
Speaker 2: To put some focus and effort onto building in real

532
00:25:47,759 --> 00:25:51,239
Speaker 2: life relationships, whether they be new ones or strengthening some

533
00:25:51,639 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 2: existing relationships as well.

534
00:25:53,479 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 4: Think about what.

535
00:25:54,079 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 2: That underlying need is under the parasocial relationship and how

536
00:25:57,719 --> 00:25:59,799
Speaker 2: we can start to fulfill that in daily life.

537
00:26:00,159 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 3: I really love this too, because I feel like, I

538
00:26:02,439 --> 00:26:04,319
Speaker 3: don't know just kind of the principle I live by

539
00:26:04,319 --> 00:26:06,959
Speaker 3: in life is just the more honest I am with myself,

540
00:26:07,039 --> 00:26:09,959
Speaker 3: the more that I can just, you know, just unravel

541
00:26:09,999 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 3: the bits that I can feel a lot of shame

542
00:26:11,799 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 3: or judgment around.

543
00:26:12,679 --> 00:26:13,799
Speaker 1: It's like, hey, you know what.

544
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 3: We all can get into parasocial relationships sometimes.

545
00:26:16,759 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 1: You know, it happens.

546
00:26:17,679 --> 00:26:19,279
Speaker 3: You know, we're in the world we're living in, and

547
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,559
Speaker 3: I think we've got to bring a bit more lightness

548
00:26:21,559 --> 00:26:23,519
Speaker 3: to it to help us not spiral deeper.

549
00:26:23,679 --> 00:26:24,319
Speaker 4: I agree.

550
00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:29,319
Speaker 3: Coming up accents the very humbling moment when you realize

551
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 3: you've started mirroring someone else's without meaning to.

552
00:26:38,439 --> 00:26:41,719
Speaker 4: Do you understand how your behavior is confusing? Fine, why

553
00:26:41,719 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 4: are we like this? The best way to understand behavior.

554
00:26:44,399 --> 00:26:45,719
Speaker 3: Some look at the causes of an.

555
00:26:45,639 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: Action, So why are we like this?

556
00:26:48,239 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 3: Okay, so anasthesia, I'm curious, can you do any accents?

557
00:26:53,479 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 4: Get in the job because I cat? Oh my gosh,

558
00:27:00,959 --> 00:27:01,959
Speaker 4: that was so good.

559
00:27:02,919 --> 00:27:03,719
Speaker 1: That was so good?

560
00:27:03,759 --> 00:27:05,999
Speaker 3: What was that?

561
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,039
Speaker 4: Clearly doing?

562
00:27:11,959 --> 00:27:13,239
Speaker 3: Like what?

563
00:27:15,319 --> 00:27:17,519
Speaker 1: It's so good? I'm pretty sure the same age, aren't

564
00:27:17,519 --> 00:27:18,559
Speaker 1: we anyway? Its hilarious?

565
00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 4: What can you do?

566
00:27:20,839 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 1: Hello?

567
00:27:21,279 --> 00:27:21,559
Speaker 4: Pop?

568
00:27:21,599 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 3: It? I feel like sometimes when I do an English accent,

569
00:27:25,719 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 3: it's just me talking louder and then you's like, why

570
00:27:27,879 --> 00:27:32,599
Speaker 3: are you I'm like, I'm just trying to attempt. It's

571
00:27:32,679 --> 00:27:34,999
Speaker 3: so funny, but it does get me thinking. It's like,

572
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,839
Speaker 3: why do we mirror people's accents or phrases without even realizing?

573
00:27:40,319 --> 00:27:44,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very it's very subconscious, right, yes, yes, absolutely,

574
00:27:45,279 --> 00:27:47,959
Speaker 2: this is communication accommodation theory.

575
00:27:48,159 --> 00:27:48,279
Speaker 3: Right.

576
00:27:48,319 --> 00:27:51,279
Speaker 2: So this was coined by how with Garles, and he

577
00:27:51,439 --> 00:27:56,319
Speaker 2: basically identified that when we're with people, we either kind

578
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,839
Speaker 2: of want to essentially move towards them to kind of

579
00:27:58,839 --> 00:28:02,279
Speaker 2: accommodate and feel a sense of likeness with them, or

580
00:28:02,479 --> 00:28:04,719
Speaker 2: we might go the opposite way and really kind of

581
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 2: establish a point of difference.

582
00:28:06,799 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 4: To them as well.

583
00:28:07,959 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 2: But if we hear someone's accents and you know it's

584
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,079
Speaker 2: someone we like that we're talking to, we feel fond

585
00:28:13,079 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 2: of them. In that interaction, we may feel that subconscious

586
00:28:16,959 --> 00:28:20,039
Speaker 2: desire come about to sort of mirror the way that

587
00:28:20,039 --> 00:28:20,719
Speaker 2: they're speaking.

588
00:28:20,959 --> 00:28:22,679
Speaker 4: We see this with body language as well.

589
00:28:22,759 --> 00:28:24,799
Speaker 2: I mean, you're not doing it with me right now,

590
00:28:24,799 --> 00:28:26,279
Speaker 2: a shiny, So I'm not going to read too much

591
00:28:26,319 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 2: into it.

592
00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 4: But you know, when you mirror someone's.

593
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,319
Speaker 2: Like so if we crossed our legs to kind of

594
00:28:31,319 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 2: be facing one another, or you know, if someone kind

595
00:28:34,399 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 2: of like scratches their arm and then the other person

596
00:28:36,479 --> 00:28:40,079
Speaker 2: subconsciously scratches their arm. When we mirror behavior, we sort

597
00:28:40,079 --> 00:28:42,399
Speaker 2: of show the person that we're interested in what they're

598
00:28:42,439 --> 00:28:51,279
Speaker 2: saying and we're attending and attuned to them.

599
00:28:51,319 --> 00:28:54,439
Speaker 3: I canisaga, Can you give us the main takeaways from

600
00:28:54,479 --> 00:28:55,519
Speaker 3: today's episode?

601
00:28:55,759 --> 00:28:57,199
Speaker 4: Sure can so.

602
00:28:57,319 --> 00:29:01,559
Speaker 2: First of all, parasocial relationships are when we develop one sided,

603
00:29:01,879 --> 00:29:06,599
Speaker 2: non reciprocal emotional bonds with a celebrity, a public figure,

604
00:29:06,799 --> 00:29:10,719
Speaker 2: a musician, and an actor or an actress. For some people,

605
00:29:10,879 --> 00:29:14,919
Speaker 2: parasocial relationships can fill some emotional needs that perhaps they're

606
00:29:14,959 --> 00:29:18,039
Speaker 2: not getting met in other areas of their life. And lastly,

607
00:29:18,519 --> 00:29:23,039
Speaker 2: parasocial relationships are not necessarily unhealthy, but we do want

608
00:29:23,079 --> 00:29:25,679
Speaker 2: to make sure that we are balancing them with in

609
00:29:25,719 --> 00:29:28,119
Speaker 2: real life, healthy day to day connections.

610
00:29:28,879 --> 00:29:31,159
Speaker 3: If you'd like us to talk about something specific on

611
00:29:31,199 --> 00:29:33,359
Speaker 3: the podcast, please get in contact with us.

612
00:29:33,519 --> 00:29:34,679
Speaker 1: Links are in the show notes.

613
00:29:34,879 --> 00:29:37,479
Speaker 2: And while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't a

614
00:29:37,519 --> 00:29:39,919
Speaker 2: substitute for therapy or diagnosis.

615
00:29:40,439 --> 00:29:42,319
Speaker 4: Please take what we discuss.

616
00:29:41,999 --> 00:29:44,759
Speaker 2: Here in the podcast in the context of your own

617
00:29:44,879 --> 00:29:47,959
Speaker 2: lived experience. If anything we talked about today brought up

618
00:29:47,999 --> 00:29:51,799
Speaker 2: any difficult feelings for you, links for additional resources are

619
00:29:51,879 --> 00:29:54,359
Speaker 2: in the show notes, and of course there are always

620
00:29:54,439 --> 00:29:58,159
Speaker 2: organizations like Lifeline or Beyond Blue that can provide more

621
00:29:58,199 --> 00:29:59,039
Speaker 2: immediate support.

622
00:29:59,479 --> 00:30:01,359
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening and let us know what you thought

623
00:30:01,359 --> 00:30:04,079
Speaker 3: of today's episode. We are watching your dms, so slide

624
00:30:04,159 --> 00:30:06,839
Speaker 3: us one on our Instagram at but are you happy pod?

625
00:30:07,119 --> 00:30:07,959
Speaker 1: See you next time.

626
00:30:08,119 --> 00:30:17,319
Speaker 2: Bye. Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land

627
00:30:17,439 --> 00:30:20,159
Speaker 2: and waters that this podcast is recorded on