WEBVTT - Catching Feelings In Your Situationship? We Got You. 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:04.560 So a situationship is comfortable. That doesn't mean it's right 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:06.240 for me and what I need, but it means that 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:08.520 I don't have to be super vulnerable. I don't have 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:10.640 to fear being hurt. I don't have to fear being 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:13.560 consumed by someone and having to give everything to them. 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:15.640 And that might be too much. If we're thinking about 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:19.599 those people where yeah, on the surface, situationships really suit them, 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:24.119 It's not really that it suits them. It's more that 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:29.000 I'm scared that if I allow more of myself to 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:31.280 be seen or to be given to someone, that I 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:32.280 then could get hurt. 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.080 Welcome to you, but are you happy? I'm a Shani Dante. 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:39.560 Dating can feel confusing enough, but now there's a new 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:42.760 kind of dynamic that a lot of people are living inside, 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:48.280 often without even realizing it. The situationship. It's an undefined 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:53.080 romantic connection that sits somewhere between dating and a proper relationship. 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:57.319 It can feel warm, convenient, and even intimate, but it's 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:00.000 rarely clear to the two people in it what they're 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:06.160 relationship actually is. Today, we're unpacking the psychology behind situationships 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:10.360 with Sarah Bays. She's a Sydney based psychotherapist and host 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.560 of MoMA MIA's relationship podcasts This Is Why We Fight. 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:17.920 She also runs Motivated Minds, a counseling practice with a 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:21.839 strong focus on relationships. Sarah spends a lot of time 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:25.680 helping people make sense of their relationship patterns, especially how 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:30.280 attachment styles play into the way we connect and situationships 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:34.280 come up a lot on again, off again dynamic, the 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:38.080 blurry boundaries, the we're not really together but we're definitely 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.480 not nothing kind of relationships. She's here to help us 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:44.680 unpack this today. So join Sarah and I in the 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:54.160 Butai Happy Studio for this incredible conversation. Thank you so 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:58.320 much Sarah for joining us today. I'm excited about today's episode. 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:00.920 Me too, thank you for having me. I'm yeah, this 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:02.040 is a really fun topic. 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:05.240 Yeah, it's it's fun. And also there's like I just 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:08.760 find the term is very new as well, like in 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:11.440 my space. I'm like, oh, I didn't know much about 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:13.799 it until I started researching about it, and I'm like, oh, wow, 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:16.560 this is a thing. Yeah, but it's interesting because you know, 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:19.799 for people who have clicked on this episode, some maybe 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:23.400 wondering whether they are or their friends are in a 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:27.200 situationship or not. So let's start there, like what actually 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:28.919 is a situationship? 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.200 Yeah, so I love that this idea that some people 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.919 may actually be in one and not know, because I 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.640 think until you put a name to things, sometimes it 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:41.840 is this kind of just like ambiguous, you know, situation 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.880 that I'm in. And I love how the words situationship 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:47.160 kind of has this self explanatory part to it, where 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:50.960 it's like it's a situation that I can't really label 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:55.000 or put an exact title on, you know. So it's 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:59.160 often I guess the point of them usually is either 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:01.360 we don't want to be putting a label on something, 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.560 so we're keeping it as a situationship, or it's too 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:07.240 new to put a label on so at the moment, 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:10.160 we're just sort of like letting this thing organically grow 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:14.239 and it might turn into a relationship, it might stay 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:16.000 this way. It's kind of like we don't know what 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:17.000 direction it's going in. 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:20.000 Yeah, it just sounds like it's it sounds messy, like 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:21.760 you kind of get the unknown. And I've did a 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.600 bit of research and it was talking about how situationships 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:28.240 are being labeled as a liminal space for a relationship, 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:31.960 where a liminal space is basically that messy in between stage. 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:33.920 You're not in one room, but you're not in the 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:36.920 other room. You're kind of lurking in the hallway. Yeah 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:41.320 you're own Yeah, yeah, yeahs it's limbo, that's what it is. 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.000 Yeah, And I think a lot of people really struggle 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:45.880 in that space, you know. I mean, I think as 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:48.920 human beings, our brain loves to have things in categories 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:52.160 and be really clearly defined. And that can be a 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:53.960 good thing in some ways, but in other ways it 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:56.920 can make us sort of push things before they're ready, 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:59.600 or pull out of things before we've given it a chance. 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.400 And so I think it depends on your personality type, 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:04.640 whether you're the type of person who would do well 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:07.200 in a situationship or who would find one like an 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:12.120 absolute nightmare. Yeah, you know, and I think that situationships 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:16.400 have always been around. I think the term is fairly recent. 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:20.680 But if I think about, you know, without sounding super old, 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.279 but in my time, it was like seeing each other 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:25.960 rather than dating. Well you know, so it's like if 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.360 I was seeing someone, it meant that something was going on, 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:32.320 but we weren't committed or fully dating, you know. So 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:34.120 I feel like this is a thing that has always 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:36.640 been there's just been different ways to talk about it. 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:40.440 Yeah, totally. And it's interesting because you know, one thing 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.000 that I'm thinking about that I'm sure people are wondering, 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:46.680 is like, what are the red flags or warning signs 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:51.880 that a connection is turning into a situationship rather than 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:54.240 a healthy defined relationship? 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:57.920 Yeah? Well, even they're healthy defined, right, So the word 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:01.080 defined means that we have actually about it, but we 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:05.680 have had an open and transparent conversation about what this is, 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:07.920 what I want, what you want? You know? Do our 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:12.320 needs match up? Do our expectations match up? So that 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.200 really is that difference where of course, in the beginning 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:18.360 we can allow for some ambiguity. We can just go, okay, 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.040 let's see where this goes. Like we both know each 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:24.000 other's general intention, like is this friends? Is this more 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.279 than friends? You know? Where are we at on the 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:28.200 intimacy front? So there's you know a few things we 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.080 can kind of let organically grow, But there usually becomes 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:35.320 a point where someone or both one or both parties 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:41.440 want a bit more definition. And situationships in themselves aren't bad, 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:46.520 I think when they are not properly discussed and almost negotiated, 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:50.120 Like everything is a negotiation. Friendships, relationships, we have to 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.240 look at what can I bring, what can you bring? 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:55.120 What are my needs? What are your needs? Can we 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:57.000 meet each other? So does this work for both of us? 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:01.600 And if we don't have that conversation, expl people get 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.640 stuck in these situationships that they're not really happy in. 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:06.000 Yeah, totally. 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:08.520 But if you have those conversations and there's two people 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:11.440 who are quite securely attached, so they have a secure 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:15.839 attachment style, good communications skills, a situation ship can be 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.080 really beneficial for both parties and just suit where you're 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:18.760 at in life. 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.600 Yeah. Yeah, I really like that because, like I'm hearing, 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:25.400 communication is a really important thing, and getting really clear 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:29.279 on your intentions early on makes the massive difference. And 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:31.520 it's hard too, because I guess there's nuance to that too, 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.080 because people will be like, well, you know, it's still 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:38.080 really early, I can't really know my expectations. So again 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:40.400 it's like we want to kind of have a bit 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:42.680 of a step by step guide, but it feels like 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.120 there it is a bit ambiguous in a way. 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:47.200 So I think what's important here is looking at what 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:51.560 your level of tolerance to discomfort is the discomfort of ambiguity. 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:56.000 Some people find that very you know, anxiety inducing or 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:58.120 just really like, you know, I'm starting spiral? Are they 0:06:58.120 --> 0:06:58.600 even into me? 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:00.200 You know? 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:01.600 Am I being too full on? Am I not being 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.280 full on enough? And you know, so some people can 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:06.599 get like that other people. If we think of people 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:09.160 who maybe you know a bit more on the avoidance side, 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.360 situationships are kind of like the best of both worlds 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:15.040 for them, So they will probably be the one that's 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:17.920 least likely to bring anything up and decide we need 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:21.520 to define anything, because to be honest, they're getting the 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:25.000 closeness and connection that avoidance do want, but without the 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:28.000 pressure and without that sort of like neediness and like 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:32.480 having to commit in a big way, so they'll be 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:34.760 less likely to want to make a change to anything. 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:37.920 Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. You've brought up some terms which 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:41.120 I'm really curious to unpack with you around like attachment 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:45.040 style and personality. And I'm curious because we've unpacked a 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.200 lot of what the signs are of a situationship. But 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:52.320 is there kind of a hidden formula or pattern that 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:55.120 you've noticed in relationship dynamics. So people who come to 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:57.320 see you in the clinic where you're like, oh, okay, 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:01.040 this is classic situationship formula, you know in a way. 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:06.000 Yeah, well I've seen some really lovely situationships. Actually, yeah, 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:10.600 you know some of my clients they've been really great 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.560 at kind of just being able to almost hold what 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.240 they need in life right now. And it's like, you know, 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:18.440 I might have kids at home, or I might be 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:21.320 like really focused on my business, or I might just 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:24.360 you know, want to take things easy. I've come out 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:26.200 of a long relationship. I'd love to have a bit 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:28.360 of fun and a bit of company and things. But 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.680 you know, so they've been quite clear and intentional around like, hey, 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:35.480 this is where I'm at and what I need. Does 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.040 that suit you? If it does, great, and also like 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:41.320 checking in on that because things change, you know, a 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:43.960 month later, six months later, a year later, we might 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:47.240 be in different places. So it's that kind of revisiting 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:50.080 of like how is this working for you? Like do 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:53.439 we see each other frequently enough? Are we having enough intimacy? 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:57.280 Do you want more from me? Am I pushing too 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:58.040 much on you? 0:08:58.040 --> 0:08:58.240 You know? 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.520 These are just normal conversations to be had, and that's 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:04.000 a great formula where it works really well, yeah, but 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:06.440 both parties have to be able to have that level 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:13.200 of I guess communication skill really and transparency. But the 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:15.480 other type of formula I see, which is maybe not 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:20.360 so positive, where it does get quite complicated, is when 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:24.280 there is this I guess maybe on both sides, it's 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:29.520 reluctance to have real vulnerability. If one person is not 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:33.120 able to say, hey, I want a bit more or 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:36.320 this isn't really working for me, then it's this kind 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:40.360 of trap where we have this like faux security and 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:45.120 faux stability, but really I can only rely on you 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:49.840 in particular windows and in particular ways. I actually don't 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:53.199 have that secure and stable partnership that I might want, 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.800 you know, And I think there's this sort of bread 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:59.920 crumbing that happens. And this is not intentional bread crumbing 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:02.320 like in a narcissistic type of way, but just this 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:05.880 where you get these moments of like connection and closeness 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:07.600 and like, yay, we got to see each other, or 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:09.440 we had a great phone call, or we you know, 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.080 went out and had a nice date. But then the 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:14.920 rest of the week, maybe I don't have them as 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:16.920 like that person that I could call and just you know, 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:18.800 have a cry about something too or you know, just 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:22.200 bent about something and it depending on what your needs are, 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:25.440 that might not be enough. Yeah, and for people with 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:29.520 an anxious attachment, they might notice that, but they're so 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.720 used to that inconsistency in relationship that this is just 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:37.280 like that same old chase cycle that they're in. 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:39.040 I don't know if you remember, like back in the 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:41.720 days where I mean I'm sounding like we're really old. 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:44.880 That's just like the ninety podcast. 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:48.040 Yeah, but it's like, you know, is that has something 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:49.960 to do with when people are like, yeah, I like 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:52.240 to go for the bad guy or the bad person, 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.400 you know, just is that playing into that kind of 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.640 they're trapping themselves in potentially what they deserve and the 0:10:58.720 --> 0:10:59.800 attachment style they have. 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:01.800 Yeah, I love that you brought up the bad guy. 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:04.440 I think because there's something there, and because there's a 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:07.760 gender thing there too, right as well, but which and 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:09.960 to be honest, more and more now I find the 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:13.160 gender is less. It's less, you know, the guy is 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:17.160 the avoidant, the girl is the anxious. It's becoming less. 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:21.480 So that way, there probably is still a skew that 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:23.480 you know, it's not fifty to fifty in that sense, 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:27.480 but I do find it not so stereotypically always the 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:31.640 man that's the avoidant and the female that's the anxious one. 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:35.800 But I guess this is where that whole bad guy thing. 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:41.280 I don't know if it's a stereotype that men don't 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:44.679 want to commit because they want to be able to 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:47.000 play the field blah blah blah blah, where I feel 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:50.000 that nowadays, this is what feeds into a lot of 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:54.440 that anxious need to be in this committed relationship because 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:56.839 the only reason you wouldn't want to commit is because 0:11:56.840 --> 0:12:00.880 you want to play the field totally. Yeah, yeah, where, Yeah, 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:02.680 I think there's a lot of other reasons that could 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:06.480 be happening. That is one of them. Yeah, but there 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:08.920 are many other reasons to think about. And this is 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:12.199 where that communication piece comes in. Yeah, A really interesting 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:16.960 thing that Esther Perell talks about. I love her, love her, 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:19.440 so you know, she does so many drops of wisdom 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:23.200 from this woman. But she talks about how monogamy is 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.880 really like where desire and passion goes to die. And 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:30.880 that sounds depressing it first, really, but it sounds very 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:33.640 depressing it first, and probably you know, might trigger a 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.679 few people into being like what do you mean what 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:40.320 she means by that is for our nervous systems to 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:44.520 really feel safe, to be vulnerable and intimate and rely 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:48.640 on someone and trust someone, we need consistency, We need security, 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.160 you know, we want to know that that person is there. 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:55.400 We know we can predict their usual behaviors, we know 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:57.960 that they show up for us, they show us nurture 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:01.960 and kindness, all these other things. Then relationships do need. 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:05.600 So what the problem is, though, is that desire and 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:12.160 passion that thrives on like mystery, thrill you know, these 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.720 kind of like novelty like that's what desire and passion 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:19.120 gets fueled by. So if you think about like committed 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:23.000 relationship doesn't really have that stuff, Like it's not that 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:25.400 it doesn't and you can't have passion and desire in 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:28.959 a monogamous relationship. You absolutely can. But there's something about 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:32.000 situationships they give you this kind of like foot in 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:37.320 both worlds where it's like there's still this like novelty, adventurous, 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.840 like thrilling, mystery part because we're not like in this 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:45.120 fully committed relationship, but we have these like pretend parts 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.839 of the committed relationship. So we get a bit of both. 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:50.440 So I think that that can kind of keep that 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:54.320 sort of like I don't know, like bad boy or 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.600 like kind of excitingness or you know, sort of thrill 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.880 thing to the relationship. But I think people in like 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:02.760 it's it can be a bit like a drug and 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:06.080 it's hard to jump off that rollercoaster in that sense. 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:10.800 So you were talking about attachment styles before. I'm curious 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.040 to know how does one build their awareness around what 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.920 kind of attachment style they are before they go into 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:19.520 something like a situationship. Yeah. 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:23.880 So look, there's a lot of online little tests and 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.920 surveys and questionnaires that you can do, and you know, 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:31.920 like I would say, like do that. It's fun. It's 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:34.040 probably a little bit more complex and complicated than that, 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:36.640 but from a basic level, a lot of people will 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:38.280 go and do something like that. So if even if 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.040 you look up like attachment style, John Bowlby is the 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:44.840 person who actually created that sort of even the term 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:48.720 I believe, but also just a theory around attachment. And 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:53.040 if I break it down really simply, there's four main 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.800 attachment styles and it can it has sort of broadened 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:57.840 out over the years where there's like these sort of 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:01.760 like multiple half like merged attachment styles, which you know, 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:03.720 is a kind of more complex if we start digging 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:05.400 into it deeper, but if we keep it just sort 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.560 of on that more foundational learning about it. We've got 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:12.280 four main attachment styles. So we've got secure, which speaks 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.680 for itself as that real sort of more secure attachment 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:17.800 sort of those people who are really quite authentic and 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.960 show up in their relationships being able to be vulnerable 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:25.080 communicating well, yeah, there's this kind of just like stable 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:29.400 consistency to their relationships. Then we've got the anxious attachment style, 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.920 which is very much the one who fears abandonment. Could 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.080 come across as like clinging or needy or like having 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:38.600 space doesn't work well for you. You know, you want to 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:40.880 fix the problem right now. You don't want to have space, 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:44.160 You want to just everything is made fine again. If 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:47.440 someone's upset or angry, I get really distressed. I find 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:50.280 it hard to tolerate distance and disapproval. 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:50.760 Yeah. 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:55.440 Then we've got the avoidant attachment style, which is more 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:57.840 so Yeah, people who seem a little bit like a 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:01.400 bit more guarded kind of of takes a while to 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:05.880 let you in. Usually they might in an argument just 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.240 want to go away and not talk or they shut down. 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:10.320 They don't want to talk things through now. They really 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:13.600 need their space. If you kind of get too needy, 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.640 they really sort of back off. Yeah, so they just 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:21.080 It's interesting because people with avoidant attachment style very much 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.960 want the connection, but they fear the connection. So where 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:28.520 anxious attachment style is where I fear abandonment, and the 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:32.880 avoidant is where I fear being consumed by and taken 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:36.440 over by someone else's needs. So I still want the connection, 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:38.600 but I'm scared you're going to kind of take over 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:42.200 me if I give it to you. Then there's the 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:45.440 insecure attachment style. And a lot of people worry about 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:49.000 being this one. I feel like if you are this one, 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:53.000 you might know you know, So it's probably quite clear generally, 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.720 an insecure attachment style sadly comes from quite a history 0:16:56.720 --> 0:17:01.400 of trauma and particularly in early childhood. But people who 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:05.359 they struggle to make healthy connections, they probably don't have 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.439 many long lasting even friendships like so they kind of 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:12.440 you know, short friendships, short relationships. It can be very 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:18.040 hard for them to be able to maintain that consistency instability. 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:22.160 So they're people who they oscillate between the anxious and avoidant, 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:25.240 but they do it sort of so frequently that it's 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:27.000 hard for anyone to kind of keep up. 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.480 I was doing a bit of research and going to 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:34.239 one of our greatest resources, TikTok oh. Yeah, and I 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:37.199 was just looking at just looking up situationships, and I know, 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:39.160 it was really great you spoke to the gender piece 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:41.240 because I was like, a lot of them were women 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:45.560 talking about their experiences of a situationship. But it was 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:50.080 really fascinating because I noticed this trend of women realizing 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.480 they were in a situationship after they left. Yeah. And 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:55.960 it just gets me thinking around, like why is it 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:59.960 that we see the unhealthy signs after we leave? 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.679 Yeah? Yeah, And you know, I think it's that that 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.359 bread crumbing where it's like, oh, I get yeah, yeah, 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.160 this is what I want, this is yeah, this makes 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.200 me happy, this is what I'm looking for, And then 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:13.320 that kind of like tides you over until the next 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.200 bread crumb. And but in between the bread crumbs, there 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.480 is this discomfort of like, oh, okay, you know, I 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:21.240 thought maybe we'd be seeing a bit more of each other, 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:24.000 or I'm really disappointed that he didn't show up to 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:26.720 my thing that I had that was really important or 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.680 you know, like different things like that I think get 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:34.480 sort of minimized or swept away by the kind of 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:40.160 good bits and whether or not there's something there around 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:43.480 Is it that you didn't know that it was a 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.679 situationship or were you not willing to bring up certain 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.680 things that would have clarified that for you. So there's 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:53.120 a resistance in actually finding out or talking about your 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:56.200 grievances or saying like, hey, I need a bit more 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:56.800 than this. 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:00.000 Or yeah, yeah totally. And it's interesting too because I 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.800 guess what I noticed was that I guess there's like 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:06.359 a greater perspective that people get once they finish, like 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:10.720 finish all the relationship changes, where they're like, oh shit, yeah, 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:13.000 I fully betrayed myself in that moment. Oh yeah, I 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:14.840 actually did want him to show up to that thing, 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:17.560 and I was fully people pleasing. So it's like it's 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:21.359 such a mirror of where within ourselves we need to 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:22.639 kind of look deeper. 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:26.800 Yeah, I think a really really common thing I see 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:30.639 is people excusing things. And it's not to say that 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.480 we have to hold everyone to the highest accountability for 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.600 every single thing they do or don't do, but there's 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:40.600 a dishonesty in ourselves, and it's often to protect you know, 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:43.400 if I really admit to myself how hurt I am 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:45.679 about that, I have to actually let that pain come 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:48.000 up and I have to feel it. And maybe it's 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:50.280 just easier to say that, oh, it wasn't that important. 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:52.679 And you know, their work is really really important to 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:54.720 them and they're really busy, so that's okay. 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:55.159 You know. 0:19:55.359 --> 0:20:00.200 So I think that people struggle to hold both. Yeah, yeah, yes, 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:02.920 they have an important work sing on. But I'm also 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:05.600 really disappointed that they didn't make the effort to come. 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:08.120 You can hold both. It doesn't have to be they 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:10.480 are a terrible person for not coming to my event, 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:13.040 but it could be. It really hurt me, and I 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:15.919 am sad about that. But I do also understand that 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:19.040 they have their own stuff going to so yeah, whereas 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:20.680 we're often either in one camp or the other. So 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:22.560 they're horrible or it was fine. 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:25.919 That's so true. No, I fully see that, and I 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:29.760 think it's important that we yeah, give light to both. Yeah, 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:32.920 more of my conversation with Sarah after this short break. 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:36.800 I'm really curious, like, why do people become so emotionally 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:41.320 invested in situationships, even when there's no real commitment. 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:45.120 Yeah, and this is the hat. This is where I 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:49.959 was thinking before about the different personality types. Some people 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:55.159 are not able to be in a situationship without catching 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:58.600 feelings so to speak. You know, and you'd like to 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:01.480 think that anybody in a situation has a certain amount 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:03.760 of feelings for the other person you know, and cares 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:07.040 about them and enjoy spending time with them. But when 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:10.240 that trickles into you know, falling in love or things 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:15.080 like that sometimes inevitable. But some people, particularly when you 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:18.560 bring sex into the piece, right, or intimacy in whatever way, 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:23.800