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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mere acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on out louders. If you're

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Speaker 2: missing us and your weekly out loud routine, and of

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Speaker 2: course you are, because why wouldn't you be, we wanted

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Speaker 2: to let you know that over the summer we are

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Speaker 2: still dropping episodes for Mamma Mia subscribers all holidays.

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Speaker 1: Long.

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Speaker 2: As a subscriber, you're going to get full access to

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Speaker 2: out loud, including the back catalog of over two hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty subscriber only episodes, so that will keep you

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Speaker 2: busy for a really long time when you want to

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Speaker 2: avoid your family at all costs. Subscribe to Momma Mia

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Speaker 2: via the link in the episode description.

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Speaker 3: High out Louders. It's Jesse and I have a question.

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Speaker 3: It's a very important question and I think it's one

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Speaker 3: you can help me with. How do you navigate your friendships?

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Speaker 3: How do you organize your catch ups? And what do

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Speaker 3: you do when there are three or more of you?

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Speaker 3: Which brings me to today's little treat from Hot Pod

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Speaker 3: summer subscriber episode from last year that's all about friendship

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Speaker 3: and the particular threesome, a thrapple if you will, that

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Speaker 3: I share with my fellow out loud hosts Holly and

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Speaker 3: the other one. We're dropping new subscriber episodes over hot

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Speaker 3: pod summer, so it's a great time to do yourself

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Speaker 3: a favor and start the new year right by becoming

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Speaker 3: a subscriber. Sound fun Well, you can find a link

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Speaker 3: in the show notes if you fancy joining us. Enjoy

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Speaker 3: you got.

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Speaker 2: A little bit of a dilemma. There quite a dilemma,

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Speaker 2: our louders. We are kicking off with a dilemma for

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Speaker 2: you today. It's one that's quite close to home, actually

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Speaker 2: very relevant to us.

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Speaker 1: It is I didn't write it this time in there

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Speaker 1: and no vibrators or are there?

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Speaker 2: Actually maybe a vibrator could be a little gift that

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Speaker 2: make our out louder feel better. Let's see, she writes,

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Speaker 2: I have two best friends. We met at work in

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Speaker 2: our twenties. We are all now in our early forties,

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Speaker 2: and our friendship has survived all kinds of things, kids

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Speaker 2: and breakups and stints living overseas. We see each other

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Speaker 2: as much as we can, although we live in different

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Speaker 2: places and have busy lives. But once a year, every year,

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Speaker 2: we try to go away for a girl's weekend, just

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Speaker 2: the three of us. We all love it. I think

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Speaker 2: our friendships with each other and together are different but unique.

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Speaker 2: This year, I can't go on the girl's weekend. I've

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Speaker 2: started a new job that requires me to work weekends sometimes,

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Speaker 2: and my family has been through a few things that

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Speaker 2: make it hard for me to get away. I guess

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Speaker 2: I thought when we worked out that there wasn't a

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Speaker 2: date this side of Christmas that we could all do,

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Speaker 2: that we wouldn't go. But I've just been told that

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Speaker 2: the girls are going just without me. I'm so upset,

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Speaker 2: and I'm also so upset with myself for being upset.

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Speaker 2: I know we're not schoolgirls. I know they love me,

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Speaker 2: but the idea of them going off without me has

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Speaker 2: literally really knocked me around. Am I being unreasonable?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 3: Really?

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Speaker 1: You don't think she's being no because it's not a

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Speaker 1: girl's trip. Then it's just like date night?

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Speaker 3: And is that not allowed?

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Speaker 1: Well? I think if there was a tradition, I mean, Holly,

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Speaker 1: you go on a girl's trip every year that we

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Speaker 1: are all heavily invested in. All the out Louder is

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Speaker 1: your annual Byron girls trip and every time you go,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, has that come around again? And it's a

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Speaker 1: recent situation, right it is.

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Speaker 2: When I read this, obviously, I was like, ah, because

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Speaker 2: that is my life to a point. So how would

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Speaker 2: you feel. I don't think I would expect them not

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Speaker 2: to go. I don't think I would expect that because

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Speaker 2: I have to miss out on the fund that everyone

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Speaker 2: has to miss.

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Speaker 3: Out, and I would feel worse if they didn't go.

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Speaker 3: Do you know that feel worse? I would have no

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Speaker 3: issue with this whatsoever. I have friends where we go

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Speaker 3: away for the weekend or we go to a holiday

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Speaker 3: house or whatever. In fact, this happened recently where we

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Speaker 3: are meant to go and visit a friend on the

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Speaker 3: other side of the country. I couldn't go, and my

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Speaker 3: other best mate went and visited him. I'm very competitive

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Speaker 3: in some elements of my life, but when it comes

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Speaker 3: to friendship, I do not understand. I do not understand

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Speaker 3: how territorial some people get.

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Speaker 1: I am looking at from the point of view of

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Speaker 1: the two people who go away, right, Yeah, I would

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Speaker 1: not want to go away without the third because the

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Speaker 1: entity is the three.

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Speaker 2: The entity is not the two, yeah, but the entity

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Speaker 2: is also I mean, I'm speaking for my girl's weekend.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: We all love going because it's a little holiday from

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Speaker 2: our lives and we get to hang out three of us,

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Speaker 2: which is very important, and we've got very good rhythm

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Speaker 2: and dynamic, and we let each other do our things

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Speaker 2: and stuff. But also we all just love going. And

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Speaker 2: so the idea that they wouldn't go and they don't

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Speaker 2: get to do those things and aloud the beach and

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Speaker 2: drink cocktails and go out for dinner and stuff because

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Speaker 2: of me, I would hate that. I think that my friends.

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Speaker 2: In my circumstance, my friends would probably say, we're not

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Speaker 2: going to go without you, and I would feel a

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Speaker 2: bit bad. But then my friend would probably organize something

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Speaker 2: that we could do, so she'd probably go instead. Can

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Speaker 2: you do this Sunday in blah and we'll all have

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Speaker 2: a lunch?

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Speaker 3: Can't you do both?

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Speaker 1: Well, let's have a staycation and we'll stay in a

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Speaker 1: hotel or whatever in the hometown, so that if you

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Speaker 1: need to go home.

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Speaker 3: Let's broaden this out, right, Let's say, because we're a thrupple, yes,

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Speaker 3: and we all have our individual relationships outside of this podcast.

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Speaker 3: I was thinking about it because you two, you know

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Speaker 3: you have your HRT, you have your perry, do you

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Speaker 3: have your blood leakids? You have at you guys kind

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Speaker 3: of have that. I'm not necessarily in on. I don't

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Speaker 3: need HRT. I have enough estrogen, so in that case,

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Speaker 3: I'm different.

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Speaker 2: Listen, people are often fascinated by threesome relationship.

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Speaker 1: Because I was thinking, Oh, I don't have any relationships

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Speaker 1: that are a threesome, but then I remember, this is

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Speaker 1: Bloody one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and people always ask me, and we talked about

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Speaker 2: this in the live show, but obviously not all the

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Speaker 2: out louders were at the live show. One of the

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Speaker 2: questions that came up and they asked me anything was like, Holy,

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Speaker 2: do you ever feel left out? And obviously I was like, no,

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Speaker 2: thank God, these bitches leave me alone. I would hate

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Speaker 2: to go on holiday with them. But that's not actually true.

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Speaker 2: I love it when we travel together and all those things.

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Speaker 2: And the thing is is our dynamic is obviously complicated

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Speaker 2: by the fact that you're to a family. I think

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Speaker 2: it could be difficult, like and I could feel left

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Speaker 2: out if I didn't have other things going on, or

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Speaker 2: if I was kind of I.

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Speaker 3: Don't know, if you were a little bit what's the

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Speaker 3: word it's sort of territorial because I've had friends like

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Speaker 3: this and it never works, and maybe this is the

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Speaker 3: reason I've screened them out. It never works when I'm

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Speaker 3: a twin. So it's like, there are some people who

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Speaker 3: need to be they need to have kind of what

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Speaker 3: do you mean, Okay, if someone wants to be my

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Speaker 3: best friend and they're very competitive over friendships.

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Speaker 2: She's already got one.

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Speaker 3: They don't like the fact I'm a twin. That is

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Speaker 3: very off putting. It's a big thing. A lot of

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Speaker 3: twin girls will remember from high school that it can

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Speaker 3: be an awkward think about the best friend thing that

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Speaker 3: you get where someone wants you all to themselves. And

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Speaker 3: then I remember a few times they'd start saying mean

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Speaker 3: things about Claire to try and kind of divide us

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Speaker 3: a bit, and I was like, Oh, you don't really

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Speaker 3: understand this friendship, do you. I think that there are

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Speaker 3: some people who need to feel ownership.

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Speaker 2: Or like I've had some territorial friends, no question, and

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Speaker 2: I'm not territorial. I'm not really territorial in any area.

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Speaker 2: But I was just thinking about the three of us.

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Speaker 2: One of the reasons why it works, though, is because

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Speaker 2: I actually think we're all quite aware of it. So

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Speaker 2: obviously I know that you two are family and see

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Speaker 2: each other all the time on the weekends and go

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Speaker 2: on holiday together. But I don't feel like you're bitching

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Speaker 2: about me when you do.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I reckon you are.

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Speaker 2: I don't get the vibe that you are. I don't

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Speaker 2: get the vibe you even really like. Go you know

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Speaker 2: what we should do without loud and stuff when I'm

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Speaker 2: not around, because I think that we actually have quite

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Speaker 2: a respectful bitch to you. Yeah, work dynamic, but maya

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Speaker 2: if you weren't confident that that would be.

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Speaker 3: How would you feel if Holly and I turned up

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Speaker 3: to work today and I said to Holly how was

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Speaker 3: dinner last night? And Holly said, I loved the second

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Speaker 3: bottle of wine we got onto, I would feel sad.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting because we're all left out in different

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Speaker 1: ways of this TRESM and I think this is possibly

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Speaker 1: why it works with us. This was meant to be

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Speaker 1: about us because it's equal, like each of us have

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Speaker 1: got unique bonds in different ways. So you and I

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Speaker 1: are family, Jesse, Holly and I are peers.

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Speaker 3: Don't say it and.

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Speaker 1: Then you and Holly have the experience of I'm the

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Speaker 1: boss and so as a camaraderie, as a communism, yes,

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Speaker 1: among two of you, So we've all got the different connections.

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Speaker 1: But you're right, Hole, it's like it's an unspoken thing

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Speaker 1: that Jesse and I we might talk about the show sometimes,

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Speaker 1: but not in a way that's like, God, Holly's a

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Speaker 1: cranky bitch, Like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you say that to Holly's face all the time.

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Speaker 3: At the same time, I learn it, but I agree,

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Speaker 3: I reckon that it's a lot to do with what

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Speaker 3: you reckon they're going to be doing and talking about

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Speaker 3: when you're not there.

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Speaker 1: Back to our original out Louder in her dilemma, what

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Speaker 1: I think is interesting because I was thinking about if

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Speaker 1: there's three of you, right, this happens to me all

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Speaker 1: the time. There's three of us or four of us, whatever,

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Speaker 1: and someone can't come. They canceled their sick, that something's

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Speaker 1: gone wrong. So the question is do you cancel the

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Speaker 1: whole thing or do you push on without them? Now,

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Speaker 1: I've got a few groups like this, and what we

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Speaker 1: are more likely to do, because we get together rarely,

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Speaker 1: is cancel the whole thing, because if you miss out one,

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Speaker 1: you might not see everyone. For like six months, and.

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Speaker 2: It's also a very different dynamic.

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Speaker 3: That's a really good point because if we were having

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Speaker 3: a dinner the three of us and any of us

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Speaker 3: said I'm sick, I can't come, then we'd be like

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Speaker 3: the point, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We wouldn't would be so awkward.

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Speaker 3: What do we talk about?

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Speaker 2: Like, It's funny because I think that threesomes can be hard,

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Speaker 2: but in other ways I quite like them because they

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Speaker 2: take pressure off that too, you know. Like so my

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Speaker 2: threesome friendship that I go to Byron with every day. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it's interesting because myself and Penny, she's sort of

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Speaker 2: my bestie, we're very tight, but we've all known each

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Speaker 2: other for the same amount of time. Karen and Penny

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Speaker 2: are very tight. They see each other all the time,

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Speaker 2: obviously live close by and everything. I'm tight with Karen,

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Speaker 2: but in a different way, like we don't talk heaps

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Speaker 2: outside the threesome situation. So you know how you kind

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Speaker 2: of you all have your own dynamics, which is what

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Speaker 2: she says. Well, She's like, I think our friendships with

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Speaker 2: each other and together are different but unique. This is

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Speaker 2: hard because you're right. I was like, no, sure they

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Speaker 2: should just go because why should they miss out in

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Speaker 2: the cocktails? But then you're right, is that maybe they

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Speaker 2: won't all get a chance to go and have fun together.

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Speaker 3: And you know what it is too, It's that when

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Speaker 3: you're in a three, the dynamic is so established and

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Speaker 3: all of you understand your place and you can feel

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Speaker 3: I don't know if it's jealousy, but they're establishing a

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Speaker 3: dynamic without you. So next time, if it were to happen,

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Speaker 3: is there a dynamic? Are there in jokes stories that

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Speaker 3: you do to closeness that then you come and they're like,

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Speaker 3: we don't need you.

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Speaker 1: Okay, here's another thing about etiquette, right, So if you're

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Speaker 1: in a situation of more than two people, or even

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Speaker 1: two people, I think if you're ever the person who cancels,

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Speaker 1: the onus is on you to then become the nicole

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Speaker 1: I either organizer of the next thing. So if this

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Speaker 1: person wanted to do it, what's interesting about our dilemmera

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Speaker 1: is that it wasn't just I couldn't make that date

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Speaker 1: and they went, will fuck you, we can buy She's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't think I can do it indefinitely, And so

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Speaker 1: I can understand why the other two would be like, well,

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Speaker 1: we want to have our fun fun. So then I

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Speaker 1: wonder if she was too late nowt but she should

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Speaker 1: have said, but what if we do blah blah blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah. Yeah, instead of saying I can't do it,

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Speaker 1: and then you've given everybody the mental load of do

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Speaker 1: we cancel the trip? What are we going to? It

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Speaker 1: always pisses me off when someone says they can't do it,

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Speaker 1: the onus is on them.

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Speaker 2: She's taught me this the rule. Remember I couldn't come

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Speaker 2: to a dinner because we have an elder's lady for

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Speaker 2: some ye I couldn't come. And then it was like me,

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Speaker 2: it was like, you're supposed to really.

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Speaker 3: Like, oh shit, it's a slatted bid.

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Speaker 2: So Maa is better at this than anyone. I know,

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Speaker 2: what should she say? You know how she says I'm upset,

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Speaker 2: but also I'm so upset with myself for being upset.

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Speaker 2: What should she do? Because here's the thing is that

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Speaker 2: when people you love and trust, when you feel like

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Speaker 2: they've upset you somehow. You know, everybody says the mark

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Speaker 2: of a good friendship is honesty. The mark of a

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Speaker 2: good friendship is put it all out their communication.

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Speaker 3: Don't dumb that on that, and that is hard.

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Speaker 2: So what should happen now?

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Speaker 3: Organize something even if you can't go away for a weekend.

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Speaker 3: Organize a lovely afternoon or like a dinner or something

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Speaker 3: with the three of you, just to like show that

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Speaker 3: you're still invested and that you want to.

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Speaker 2: Push down the anger and the irritation.

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Speaker 1: And re establish the dynamic of the three of you.

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Speaker 3: I think we over communicate sometimes. I've had a few

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Speaker 3: friends actually pull me up this particular dynamic. And then

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Speaker 3: one friend moved away, and then I got really lazy

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Speaker 3: with the other friend. I realized that he was the

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Speaker 3: glue that was making all the plans, and he pulled

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Speaker 3: me off up on it once and was like, when

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Speaker 3: was the last time you asked him to hang out?

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Speaker 3: Because you've said no to him three times in a row.

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Speaker 3: He thinks you're not interested. Like sometimes you need that,

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Speaker 3: you need someone to give you a bit of a

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Speaker 3: wake up call.

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Speaker 2: It's so true because we fall into our roles. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because my friend Penny is in Nicole, no surprise that

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Speaker 2: she organizes the girl's weekend books, the flights, books, the restaurants,

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Speaker 2: but like sometimes she has Nicole overload and she's like,

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Speaker 2: not necessarily to us, but to our friend group more broadly, like,

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Speaker 2: what the fuck have you lot been doing? If I

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Speaker 2: didn't organize drinks on Sunday So and So's birthday party, whatever,

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Speaker 2: would we just never see each other? And I understand

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Speaker 2: how that backs up on her, but also I don't

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Speaker 2: know how to how to do it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got another threesome now that I'm thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: Some threesomes also just run their course where one person

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Speaker 1: sort of just lags and keep up, or is in

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Speaker 1: a different life stage or in a different season. And

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Speaker 1: I've got this threesome. It's a historical threesome. And I

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Speaker 1: keep throwing pebbles. You know that thing about pebbles, where

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Speaker 1: you throw pebbles, which is like a bid for connection,

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Speaker 1: so you might share a link or a photo or

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Speaker 1: a comment about something that's happened in the news or something.

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Speaker 1: And I keep throwing pebbles into this group. And I

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Speaker 1: called the group a funny in joke that we had

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Speaker 1: from twenty years ago because two of them sort of

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Speaker 1: fell out. But now we've sort of got this group,

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Speaker 1: and neither of them listened to this show, so I

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Speaker 1: can say I'm trying to make fetch happen, like I

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Speaker 1: just can't make I can't jumpstart the group again, the threesomes,

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Speaker 1: So I think I just have to maybe let it go.

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Speaker 2: You've interviewed people who are actually in thropples. Do you

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Speaker 2: think they have this romantic thruple romantic throw ple?

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Speaker 3: Okay?

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Speaker 1: So I asked ron Mangan this when I interviewed her,

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Speaker 1: and no filter. She's got two wives and the two

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Speaker 1: other wives they've been together for like a couple of deacys,

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Speaker 1: and they're older than her. And so I said to her,

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Speaker 1: what about when they go out on date night or

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Speaker 1: when you go out on date night? Is there jealousy?

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Speaker 1: And she goes, no, everyone's stoked to have a night

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Speaker 1: on their own. Yay.

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Speaker 3: Friendships are weird, aren't they? Because I'm even thinking about

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Speaker 3: some of my closest friendships, Like there's my sister and

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Speaker 3: I and two of our best friends from kindergarten, and

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Speaker 3: when we hang out, literally for the last twenty five

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Speaker 3: plus years, it's the four of us. If one of

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Speaker 3: us couldn't come, it wouldn't happen. I remember a few

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Speaker 3: times someone's been living overseas and we've been like, we

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Speaker 3: don't know if we can there are a.

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Speaker 2: Couple to me because it's a different thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like this dynamic is what works. It feels

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Speaker 3: like a betrayal if it were. I can't even imagine

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Speaker 3: that one exists without the other. And I wonder if

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Speaker 3: it would enrich the friendship if I actually invested in

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Speaker 3: them individually, or if some friendships only exist in a

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Speaker 3: kind of eCos It.

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Speaker 1: Also feels like a lot of extra work and what can.

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Speaker 3: Our catch up to make efficient.

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Speaker 1: It was something that a word that Rowan taught me

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Speaker 1: called compersian, which is almost the opposite of jealousy. It's

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Speaker 1: about when you love someone and you see them being

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Speaker 1: loved by someone else or loving someone else, it brings

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Speaker 1: you joy, not insecurity or sadness or jealousy.

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Speaker 2: You have to be evolved for that shit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, do you know when I've seen it. I've seen

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Speaker 1: it with children. So like when I see Luna with

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Speaker 1: Jesse or with Luca or with her other grandmother or

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Speaker 1: anyone really like loving that person and that person loving her,

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Speaker 1: I don't feel jealousy. I feel joy, which is interesting

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Speaker 1: because I'm very competitive as well, and I was worried

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Speaker 1: at first when Luny came along, but where I stood

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Speaker 1: on the leaderboard, I know you are, And now I

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Speaker 1: don't see that anymore. Now I get actual joy. Like

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite things is when I bring Luna

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Speaker 1: home at the end of the time that I've been

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Speaker 1: looking after her is watching the reunion. I love watching

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Speaker 1: people just so excited to see each other and watching

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Speaker 1: how excited Jesse used to see Luna, how excited Luna

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Speaker 1: is to see Jesse.

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Speaker 2: I froth for that. Have people in your life who

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00:17:10,167 --> 00:17:11,527
Speaker 2: always happy to see you?

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Speaker 3: Do you think it's possible if people are listening and

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Speaker 3: even with this, that threesome friendships work.

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Speaker 1: I think they can.

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Speaker 3: I think that can be your Like a lot of

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Speaker 3: people see best friendships as one on one.

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Speaker 2: I think they do, but I think you probably have

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Speaker 2: to accept the fact that they work, but they're not. Well,

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Speaker 2: I haven't seen it where it's entirely equal, right, Like

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Speaker 2: so often one of you will be a bit closer

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Speaker 2: with the other person or not, or you talk more

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Speaker 2: often or whatever, because like three way phone calls, aren't

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Speaker 2: you know, like I just done so, I think I know,

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Speaker 2: but some people do still talk on a phone mere

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Speaker 2: I don't like to freak you out. But some people

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Speaker 2: still do do that disgusting and to make threesome's work,

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Speaker 2: you have to be comfortable with that. On Instagram the

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Speaker 2: other week it was Kristin Davis and Cynthia Nixon. So

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Speaker 2: Charlotte and Miranda were on holiday together and I was like, well,

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Speaker 2: there's JP's not there.

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Speaker 3: And I mean Kutrell she's she doesn't mind at all.

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Speaker 3: But I think Sarah Jessica Parker was sitting by the phone.

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Speaker 2: Well maybe she was, or maybe because she's the you know,

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Speaker 2: she's off in a play in London and she's doing

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Speaker 2: this and that she's probably like, you go without me, girls,

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Speaker 2: And then this was her, and then it was it

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Speaker 2: was Sarah Jeska Parker.

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Speaker 3: I got a job where she has to work week.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was in the theater on the West End.

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Speaker 3: Exactly. Oh my goodness. No, let Charlotte and Miranda hang out.

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Speaker 3: They have a lot of their side characters and they

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Speaker 3: need to bond over that.

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Speaker 2: If you've gotten a dilemma for us out louder and

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00:18:38,527 --> 00:18:42,087
Speaker 2: you like our extraordinary wisdom, what did we sort out there? Oh?

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00:18:42,247 --> 00:18:44,007
Speaker 2: That she should organize a lunch.

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Speaker 3: Been a twenty two second podcast but anyway.

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Speaker 1: Sarah Jessica Parker, if you have any other dilemmas that

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00:18:52,127 --> 00:18:55,247
Speaker 1: you need our help with, you know where to find us.

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Speaker 1: Email out loud at mumamea dot com dot are you

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00:18:58,447 --> 00:19:00,527
Speaker 1: and put the word dilemma in the subject line.

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00:19:01,047 --> 00:19:03,927
Speaker 3: How do you navigate your friendship groups? Out Louders can

408
00:19:03,967 --> 00:19:07,007
Speaker 3: throw somes ever work and if not, let it be

409
00:19:07,127 --> 00:19:10,887
Speaker 3: known that we are very invested in no all the details. Please,

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00:19:10,887 --> 00:19:12,727
Speaker 3: if you've had a falling out, just post in the

411
00:19:12,727 --> 00:19:14,167
Speaker 3: out louders. It'll get me through summer.

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00:19:14,607 --> 00:19:15,367
Speaker 1: And if you're.

413
00:19:15,207 --> 00:19:18,687
Speaker 3: Missing your regular mummya out loud over hot pot summer.

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00:19:18,807 --> 00:19:21,527
Speaker 3: Now's a great time to think about becoming a muma

415
00:19:21,567 --> 00:19:25,807
Speaker 3: mea subscriber. We drop brand new episodes on Tuesdays and

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Speaker 3: Thursdays that are just for Mumia subscribers, so you can

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Speaker 3: get more out loud episodes just like this. And a

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Speaker 3: huge thank you to all our current subscribers. You will

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Speaker 3: never know how much we love you.