1
00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:10,559
Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. I could sense something,

2
00:00:11,719 --> 00:00:15,319
Speaker 1: I suppose like brewing on the horizon. I know that

3
00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:20,640
Speaker 1: sounds quite quite dramatic, but I could sense something nebulous

4
00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,599
Speaker 1: about to happen. And I think that's why, you know,

5
00:00:25,799 --> 00:00:28,160
Speaker 1: part of the reason I went to get a mental

6
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,240
Speaker 1: health care plan was because I was rereading some of

7
00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,400
Speaker 1: the stuff that I'd written. And yeah, I always get

8
00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,080
Speaker 1: complimented on like how energetic and vivacious and fun I am,

9
00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,280
Speaker 1: And the stuff I've written was actually really fucking dark.

10
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,120
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to No Filter. I'm kateline Brook and

11
00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:55,120
Speaker 2: today I'm talking to ter Rea pit Now. Teria has

12
00:00:55,160 --> 00:01:01,600
Speaker 2: been called many things, inspiring, resilient, extraordinary, but today she's

13
00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:07,840
Speaker 2: proudly calling herself selfie. After surviving an accident that changed

14
00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:12,480
Speaker 2: her life forever, Teria built a career as an author, speaker,

15
00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:17,640
Speaker 2: and athlete. But this story isn't about the fire. It's

16
00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:23,200
Speaker 2: about what came after, the mental load, the burnout, the guilt,

17
00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,679
Speaker 2: and the realization that being selfless was slowly destroying her.

18
00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:34,200
Speaker 2: In this conversation, Teria opens up about learning to put

19
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:40,760
Speaker 2: herself first, setting boundaries, and why choosing yourself isn't selfish,

20
00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:50,000
Speaker 2: it's survival. This is ter Rea Pit. Ter Rea Pit,

21
00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:51,840
Speaker 2: welcome to No Filter.

22
00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:53,240
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.

23
00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,480
Speaker 2: It's a great medium for you because you are quite

24
00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,160
Speaker 2: unfiltered in your expression of yourself.

25
00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,280
Speaker 1: Yes, well, I don't know if that's a compliment, but

26
00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,440
Speaker 1: I'm going to see it as one. Okay, thank you.

27
00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,440
Speaker 2: Well, obviously on this podcast it's the ultimate compliment. Yes,

28
00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:17,480
Speaker 2: But in life it's a rare commodity, really increasingly rare.

29
00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,640
Speaker 2: I mean, you've always been very open with how you've

30
00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:26,480
Speaker 2: brought yourself to the public, but this is really if

31
00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,480
Speaker 2: you ever want to make the people that you live

32
00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,560
Speaker 2: with nervous, your husband, your children, I suggest that you

33
00:02:33,640 --> 00:02:37,600
Speaker 2: pull out this book, your new book, which is called

34
00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,280
Speaker 2: Selfish Selfish. My husband's like, why are you reading that?

35
00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:44,320
Speaker 2: It makes them nervous?

36
00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:46,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what. There was a bit of tension

37
00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:51,160
Speaker 1: inside myself with how because you know, there's stories in

38
00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:56,160
Speaker 1: there about Michael. There's less stories about my kids, but

39
00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,400
Speaker 1: there are still some stories in there. So for me,

40
00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:04,480
Speaker 1: whilst personally I am a public person, I share my story,

41
00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,000
Speaker 1: I post on social media, I do podcasts, I write,

42
00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,600
Speaker 1: I create content, I do advocacy work, so I'm a

43
00:03:12,640 --> 00:03:15,440
Speaker 1: public person, but I also need to remember that my

44
00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,919
Speaker 1: family aren't public, if that makes sense. Like my husband,

45
00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:24,280
Speaker 1: well he's not my husband, Michael isn't an influencer. You know,

46
00:03:24,640 --> 00:03:27,440
Speaker 1: my kids aren't in my content. So there was a

47
00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,959
Speaker 1: little bit of tension within myself, I suppose about that

48
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:32,560
Speaker 1: tightrope that I had to walk.

49
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:37,240
Speaker 2: Yes, because you in the book, you delve very deeply

50
00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,960
Speaker 2: into the inherent tension that a lot of women in

51
00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:46,240
Speaker 2: particular feel in their lives now, which is how you

52
00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:52,560
Speaker 2: serve yourself and how you serve those around you who

53
00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,000
Speaker 2: you love. And in fact, even though you said you

54
00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,920
Speaker 2: don't talk about your boys too much, hack of I,

55
00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:04,920
Speaker 2: your eldest son provided the launching pad he did for

56
00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,800
Speaker 2: this discovery over the hot chocolate.

57
00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. So it was one of those nights which you know,

58
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,920
Speaker 1: I'm sure so many people can relate to, but especially

59
00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,040
Speaker 1: if your parents, both parents come home after a big

60
00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,640
Speaker 1: day at work. You're both absolutely shattered, but the kids

61
00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,440
Speaker 1: are you know, everyone's hungry. You haven't started making dinner,

62
00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:26,520
Speaker 1: so you know, I start getting the stuff out of

63
00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,240
Speaker 1: the fridge, start cooking dinner, and I look over at

64
00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,880
Speaker 1: my husband, sorry, at my boyfriend, you're not husband at

65
00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,560
Speaker 1: my spunky man and he's sitting on it. He's sitting

66
00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,120
Speaker 1: on the couch, and I have this thought, and it's

67
00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,720
Speaker 1: probably reflective of my headspace at the time, but I think, oh,

68
00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,320
Speaker 1: that'd be nice, you know, that'd be nice to be

69
00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,279
Speaker 1: able to sit down and sit down on the couch

70
00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,920
Speaker 1: and decompress after my day. But no, I've got to

71
00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,480
Speaker 1: cook dinner. So I cook the dinner. Everyone sits down

72
00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:55,560
Speaker 1: at the table, We eat the dinner, we start clearing up,

73
00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,480
Speaker 1: and then my eldest son, Hukkavay, he was only four

74
00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:00,880
Speaker 1: years old at the time, he says that he wants

75
00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,880
Speaker 1: a hot chocolate. So I say, yeah, no, worries, mate.

76
00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,480
Speaker 1: So I start getting out the hot chocolate materials and

77
00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,400
Speaker 1: he looks at the brand of the hot chocolate that

78
00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:14,200
Speaker 1: I've bought and you, guys, that's the wrong one. And

79
00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:21,560
Speaker 1: because by this time I'm so stressed, tense, overwhelmed, cranky

80
00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:27,000
Speaker 1: and snarky, I retort back to him, well, why don't

81
00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:28,560
Speaker 1: you ask your dad to buy you the brand of

82
00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,440
Speaker 1: hot chocolate that you like? And quick as a flash,

83
00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,520
Speaker 1: he comes back to me and he says, no, that's

84
00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,360
Speaker 1: your job. And I would always I had always considered

85
00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:41,240
Speaker 1: Michael and I to have an equal relationship. I considered

86
00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,320
Speaker 1: myself to be a feminist. I thought we were doing

87
00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:46,760
Speaker 1: a pretty good job at raising our voice. But yet

88
00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,080
Speaker 1: somehow my four year old son had identified that it

89
00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:54,040
Speaker 1: was mum's job to remember the brand of hot chocolate

90
00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,960
Speaker 1: that he liked. And so that night I was a

91
00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,880
Speaker 1: little bit of a spiral because I felt like no

92
00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,919
Speaker 1: matter how diligent I was, no matter how hard I tried,

93
00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:06,919
Speaker 1: no matter if I got up earlier in the morning

94
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,160
Speaker 1: and meditated, no matter if I set my day up

95
00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,240
Speaker 1: with intentions, no matter if I, you know, planned out

96
00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:16,839
Speaker 1: my day meticulously, something would always fall through the cracks.

97
00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,599
Speaker 1: And I also I didn't really like who I was

98
00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,600
Speaker 1: at the time, because I was often stressed and shitty

99
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,839
Speaker 1: and annoyed and overwhelmed and overworked. And I like, I

100
00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,680
Speaker 1: feel so like you, Kate, like I got a second

101
00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,440
Speaker 1: chance at life, right, but I wasn't enjoying it because

102
00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,080
Speaker 1: I was always shitty and annoyed, and I wanted to

103
00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,039
Speaker 1: enjoy my life. That my second chance that I get

104
00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,839
Speaker 1: to have with my spunky man and my beautiful kids,

105
00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:44,960
Speaker 1: that I wanted to be well playful and more energetic

106
00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:49,560
Speaker 1: and more uplifted and more joyful. And so that was

107
00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:51,560
Speaker 1: I suppose a catalyst for this book.

108
00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:58,560
Speaker 2: And so when that moment, sometimes you only recognize things

109
00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,719
Speaker 2: in retrospect. Yeah, Like, did that moment hit you in

110
00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,200
Speaker 2: the moment, even with all the you know, a tendant

111
00:07:06,280 --> 00:07:08,839
Speaker 2: kafuffle of trying to make dinner and exhaustion or whatever.

112
00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:10,880
Speaker 2: Did it hit you at the moment or was it

113
00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:15,240
Speaker 2: later on upon reflection that you went, hang on a minute.

114
00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was when everyone was in bed and I

115
00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:24,720
Speaker 1: sat down at the kitchen table, and I remember feeling

116
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,320
Speaker 1: really sad, really sad, and I was drinking I was

117
00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,560
Speaker 1: drinking wine at the time. I just started like tapping

118
00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,720
Speaker 1: out my thoughts and my feelings and how how I

119
00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,040
Speaker 1: felt at the time this tension in my life. I

120
00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,600
Speaker 1: was running around like a headless chicken, trying to do

121
00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,640
Speaker 1: everything for everyone else, spending my whole day being a

122
00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,360
Speaker 1: good boss, being a good person, being polite, not rocking

123
00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:53,440
Speaker 1: the boat, being a good friend, not forgetting birthdays, checking

124
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,240
Speaker 1: in with my in laws. So I felt like I

125
00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,080
Speaker 1: was doing everything that I was that I felt like

126
00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:02,600
Speaker 1: I was supposed to. But then if I didn't do

127
00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,840
Speaker 1: one little thing, then all of the things that I

128
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:11,920
Speaker 1: did do right right noticed or weren't appreciated interested.

129
00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:17,240
Speaker 2: Yes, so the exceptions to what you've done are the

130
00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,480
Speaker 2: things that get picked up on exactly, rather than the

131
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,080
Speaker 2: million things you have done. So even with like hack

132
00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,200
Speaker 2: of eye, it was he noticed that you didn't get

133
00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,520
Speaker 2: the right type of hot chocolate. But of course through

134
00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:30,720
Speaker 2: a child's eyes, they're not noticing that you've just picked

135
00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,439
Speaker 2: them up and dropped them off and that you're making

136
00:08:32,439 --> 00:08:33,400
Speaker 2: dinner in your whatever.

137
00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like it's not it's not a child's job

138
00:08:37,239 --> 00:08:39,839
Speaker 1: to you know, especially not a four year old to

139
00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,599
Speaker 1: be like, oh, you've done you know, you've worked all

140
00:08:42,719 --> 00:08:45,040
Speaker 1: day and yes, you know you've got to give yourself

141
00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,120
Speaker 1: a break and you've cooked it. Like that's what my

142
00:08:47,239 --> 00:08:50,000
Speaker 1: girlfriends are for. I suppose that's what girlfriends are for,

143
00:08:50,479 --> 00:08:52,240
Speaker 1: you know, to give you that little pep talk. And

144
00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,400
Speaker 1: also that's what my man's for too. So it's not

145
00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,480
Speaker 1: it's not a child's job. But I suppose when I

146
00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:03,200
Speaker 1: embarked on this selfish journey, I realized that I had

147
00:09:03,239 --> 00:09:07,920
Speaker 1: to stop posed waiting, yes, waiting for someone to notice,

148
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,679
Speaker 1: waiting for someone to praise, waiting for someone to say, hey,

149
00:09:11,719 --> 00:09:14,719
Speaker 1: you've worked really hard today. You need to break yes.

150
00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,800
Speaker 1: And I had to carve that out for myself.

151
00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,640
Speaker 2: You say in the book, And I think this will

152
00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,359
Speaker 2: resonate with so many people. I've tried to be selfless,

153
00:09:24,959 --> 00:09:27,760
Speaker 2: to put other people's needs ahead of my own, and

154
00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:32,520
Speaker 2: I think in many ways it's been catastrophic for me personally.

155
00:09:32,959 --> 00:09:39,280
Speaker 1: Yes, that's extraordinary. Yeah, because I became burned out. I

156
00:09:39,319 --> 00:09:42,640
Speaker 1: was really burned out, and that because I didn't didn't

157
00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,479
Speaker 1: get help, didn't get the mental health support that I needed,

158
00:09:46,239 --> 00:09:49,679
Speaker 1: I ended up being really depressed. That's why it was catastrophic,

159
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:51,559
Speaker 1: because up until that i'd been I felt like I'd

160
00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,679
Speaker 1: been doing everything right. You know, I'd been a good partner,

161
00:09:55,719 --> 00:09:58,840
Speaker 1: a good mom, a good friend, a good daughter, checking

162
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,839
Speaker 1: in on others, making sure everyone else was comfortable. And

163
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,079
Speaker 1: if something made me uncomfortable, or if I didn't want

164
00:10:06,119 --> 00:10:09,800
Speaker 1: to do something, I would just absorb that, you know,

165
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,520
Speaker 1: I would just expect myself to be able to resolve

166
00:10:13,599 --> 00:10:17,880
Speaker 1: that internally. Or I would expect myself to not make

167
00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,480
Speaker 1: a big deal. Don't be a drama queen, don't be

168
00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,400
Speaker 1: a diva, be easy going.

169
00:10:22,599 --> 00:10:24,360
Speaker 2: So what sort of things, Terria.

170
00:10:24,719 --> 00:10:28,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll give you an example. So lots of people

171
00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,000
Speaker 1: recognize me and they say, oh my gosh, Terria, I

172
00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,319
Speaker 1: love your work, You're awesome, and I'll say, thank you.

173
00:10:34,359 --> 00:10:37,679
Speaker 1: That's really lovely, you know. I genuinely love it when

174
00:10:37,719 --> 00:10:40,240
Speaker 1: people say that to me. But on the other side

175
00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,400
Speaker 1: of the equation, I also get people come up to

176
00:10:42,439 --> 00:10:44,999
Speaker 1: me and they say, oh my gosh, what happened to you?

177
00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,080
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, will you burnt? Oh my gosh, that's

178
00:10:49,239 --> 00:10:54,080
Speaker 1: such a crazy story. And what I would do is

179
00:10:54,119 --> 00:10:58,040
Speaker 1: I would placate them, so I would answer the questions,

180
00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,199
Speaker 1: and I perversely, I wouldn't want them to feel bad,

181
00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,480
Speaker 1: so I do all this extra work to try and

182
00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:10,679
Speaker 1: make them feel comfortable for asking what is probably you know,

183
00:11:11,079 --> 00:11:13,080
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be proud if my boys went up to

184
00:11:13,119 --> 00:11:16,439
Speaker 1: a stranger and asked those types of questions. But I

185
00:11:16,479 --> 00:11:19,160
Speaker 1: suppose when I started to notice that I was at

186
00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,399
Speaker 1: the park with my son and a woman came over

187
00:11:22,479 --> 00:11:24,840
Speaker 1: to me and started asking me a lot of those questions,

188
00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,880
Speaker 1: and I could feel my son squeezing my hand, trying

189
00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,080
Speaker 1: to pull me away and saying, Mommy, can we go?

190
00:11:32,439 --> 00:11:35,679
Speaker 1: Can we go? And so I sort of. I suppose

191
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:40,119
Speaker 1: it's strange because I've written this book about being selfish

192
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:45,359
Speaker 1: and I'm encouraging other women to be selfish and to

193
00:11:45,359 --> 00:11:49,000
Speaker 1: stop waiting for permission from other people. But at the

194
00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,280
Speaker 1: same time, I'm still not very good at being selfish,

195
00:11:51,319 --> 00:11:53,160
Speaker 1: even though I've written this, I've written this whole bloody

196
00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,720
Speaker 1: book on it. But it was easier for me to

197
00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,600
Speaker 1: set boundaries and to do things when it was for

198
00:12:00,239 --> 00:12:02,280
Speaker 1: my kids, if that makes sense.

199
00:12:02,479 --> 00:12:05,439
Speaker 2: Often I think we'll advocate on half of others.

200
00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,079
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, we'll draw.

201
00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,160
Speaker 2: A line in the sand on behalf of others that

202
00:12:09,199 --> 00:12:11,319
Speaker 2: we won't do for ourselves.

203
00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,160
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's why I thought about

204
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,360
Speaker 1: the example I was setting for my kids. I was

205
00:12:16,359 --> 00:12:19,120
Speaker 1: teaching them that the stranger asked them a question that

206
00:12:19,119 --> 00:12:22,160
Speaker 1: they weren't comfortable with, they had to answer it, and

207
00:12:22,199 --> 00:12:24,599
Speaker 1: not only that they had to be polite about it,

208
00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,319
Speaker 1: and not only that they had to make the stranger

209
00:12:27,839 --> 00:12:33,720
Speaker 1: feel good about asking this feel okay. Yeah. So now

210
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,920
Speaker 1: if someone says that to me, I just say I

211
00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,239
Speaker 1: don't want to talk about it, which feels so rude,

212
00:12:39,599 --> 00:12:41,760
Speaker 1: and it feels like I'm being a really big bitch.

213
00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,320
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I notice that I feel

214
00:12:46,319 --> 00:12:49,800
Speaker 1: proud of myself too for drawing that boundary.

215
00:12:50,319 --> 00:12:53,400
Speaker 2: When you are in public as other people are who

216
00:12:53,439 --> 00:12:56,960
Speaker 2: have had burns or who have had some kind of

217
00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:01,400
Speaker 2: physical trauma happened to them, yea, that they wear that

218
00:13:01,479 --> 00:13:03,840
Speaker 2: they can't hide from the world, Like as we all

219
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,119
Speaker 2: know the world, it's all crawling around full of internal trauma,

220
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,400
Speaker 2: but that can't be seen from the outside. Yeah, there's

221
00:13:10,439 --> 00:13:13,840
Speaker 2: something about when you have the face that you present

222
00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,719
Speaker 2: to the world has a story to it that people

223
00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:23,600
Speaker 2: feel that they can intrude upon that. And in your book,

224
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:28,479
Speaker 2: in which you so in your quest for selfishness, you

225
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,519
Speaker 2: go on it is a real quest. So you examine

226
00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,360
Speaker 2: so many aspects of your life, your relationship with alcohol,

227
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,959
Speaker 2: your relationship with your phone, the division of household chores

228
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,240
Speaker 2: with Michael. And one of the things that you talk

229
00:13:42,319 --> 00:13:45,319
Speaker 2: about which was really interesting was I think it came

230
00:13:45,359 --> 00:13:48,759
Speaker 2: out of your therapy, maybe that every time you have

231
00:13:48,839 --> 00:13:52,879
Speaker 2: to share your trauma with a stranger, you end up

232
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,959
Speaker 2: reliving that trauma yourself.

233
00:13:55,439 --> 00:14:00,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, which I you know, I'd read about microaggressions a

234
00:14:00,119 --> 00:14:03,199
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, which is something that I think

235
00:14:03,239 --> 00:14:05,679
Speaker 1: it was first brought to my attention by Carlie Finley.

236
00:14:05,719 --> 00:14:07,200
Speaker 2: Oh yes, I love Carly.

237
00:14:07,439 --> 00:14:11,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's awesome, she's an advocate, she's fucking amazing. So

238
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,679
Speaker 1: it was first brought to my attention, and when I

239
00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,760
Speaker 1: first read about it, I got to say I didn't

240
00:14:17,839 --> 00:14:21,320
Speaker 1: quite understand because at the time, I was like, well,

241
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,960
Speaker 1: it's just a question, like, you know, the person didn't

242
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,080
Speaker 1: mean it. It's just a question how bad can it be?

243
00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:32,160
Speaker 1: But what I realized now is because I've lived with

244
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:36,680
Speaker 1: burns for like close to fifteen years, the reason they're

245
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:42,920
Speaker 1: called microaggressions is because they have this cumulative effect. And

246
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,440
Speaker 1: You're right, every time someone, you know, I might be

247
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,600
Speaker 1: at the going for a surf and I'll be frothing.

248
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:49,960
Speaker 1: I'll be like, can't wait to get out there, and

249
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,440
Speaker 1: someone will say, hey, what happened to you? And then

250
00:14:52,479 --> 00:14:55,240
Speaker 1: even though I was keen and excited to go for

251
00:14:55,320 --> 00:15:01,400
Speaker 1: a serf, now mentally I brought back to, you know,

252
00:15:01,479 --> 00:15:05,280
Speaker 1: the trauma that I've survived. So it can be quiet jarring.

253
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,560
Speaker 1: But it's also not like I can't expect every single

254
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:14,400
Speaker 1: person to not ask me those types of questions, right, No, Like,

255
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,120
Speaker 1: obviously that's going to be ideal. It's not going to happen.

256
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,720
Speaker 1: But what I can do is I can realize that

257
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,120
Speaker 1: people can ask that question, and I can also just

258
00:15:22,119 --> 00:15:24,320
Speaker 1: shut it down and just say I don't want to

259
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:24,960
Speaker 1: talk about it.

260
00:15:25,479 --> 00:15:30,040
Speaker 2: You must get told all the time that you're an inspiration.

261
00:15:31,479 --> 00:15:35,800
Speaker 2: Is that a blessing or a curse? Does it confine

262
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:37,760
Speaker 2: you to feel that you have to live in a

263
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,520
Speaker 2: certain way? How do you feel about about inspiration?

264
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,240
Speaker 1: You know, when people say that they admire me, they

265
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,039
Speaker 1: respect the work I've died, that they find me inspiring,

266
00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:53,600
Speaker 1: that's that's really like lovely and amazing, and I like

267
00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,760
Speaker 1: to hear it. If I'm feeling down or I'm having

268
00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,240
Speaker 1: a shit day, I can feel like a bit of

269
00:15:59,239 --> 00:16:04,160
Speaker 1: a fraud. This person thinks I'm inspiring, but I feel

270
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,440
Speaker 1: like my day has just been a shit show, so

271
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,480
Speaker 1: I don't feel inspiring at the time. I think when

272
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:13,999
Speaker 1: people say, like if I'm at the shops and I'm

273
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,720
Speaker 1: getting like minced meat from my spag while that I'm

274
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,280
Speaker 1: cooking my boys and someone says, oh, you're so brave,

275
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,800
Speaker 1: I I just couldn't leave the house if what happened

276
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,680
Speaker 1: to you happened to me. I find that kind of

277
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,600
Speaker 1: applause really off because I feel like I'm being commended

278
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,920
Speaker 1: for doing a really ordinary, basic task that most people

279
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,359
Speaker 1: would do and not really think about. So I don't

280
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,160
Speaker 1: like those circumstances. But I think I'm normally getting caught

281
00:16:44,239 --> 00:16:48,320
Speaker 1: inspiring or brave, I suppose for the work that I've

282
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,920
Speaker 1: done or the things that I've done. And I think

283
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,200
Speaker 1: if I look at it objectively, then yes, I am

284
00:16:54,239 --> 00:16:58,080
Speaker 1: brave and I am inspiring. So I'm okay with it.

285
00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:59,680
Speaker 2: To repeat you are extraordinary.

286
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:01,759
Speaker 1: I'll take that too, Kate, thank.

287
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:06,720
Speaker 2: You so in your quest. And I just also want

288
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,000
Speaker 2: to say the territory that you're charting in the book

289
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,639
Speaker 2: is very interesting because it's certainly not a treatise on,

290
00:17:14,919 --> 00:17:17,840
Speaker 2: you know, burning down the village and leaving everyone to

291
00:17:17,919 --> 00:17:20,919
Speaker 2: fend for themselves. You're not advocating that at all, No,

292
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,600
Speaker 2: But you know what I mean, that is the association

293
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,759
Speaker 2: that we have with the notion of selfishness. Yeah, but

294
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,960
Speaker 2: what you're talking about is serving yourself.

295
00:17:30,679 --> 00:17:35,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, looking after your well being, making sure that you're

296
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:39,600
Speaker 1: doing okay. And you know, sometimes we don't live near

297
00:17:39,639 --> 00:17:42,520
Speaker 1: any family members, and Michael will go away for work

298
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,679
Speaker 1: and so I'll be solo parenting for two weeks. In

299
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,879
Speaker 1: the morning, sometimes I can feel myself start to get stressed,

300
00:17:50,399 --> 00:17:52,560
Speaker 1: start to get overwhelmed because I think about all the

301
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,600
Speaker 1: work that I have to do. I've got to get

302
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,239
Speaker 1: the kids ready for school, do their lunches, all of

303
00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:01,879
Speaker 1: those things. And now, instead of being really hard on myself,

304
00:18:01,919 --> 00:18:03,679
Speaker 1: I say, well, what's going to make this day a

305
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,279
Speaker 1: bit easier to reach? Yeah? And sometimes the answer is, Hey,

306
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,040
Speaker 1: I'm not going to take my kids to after school

307
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,760
Speaker 1: sports today, or we're just going to get pizza tonight.

308
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:18,200
Speaker 1: And sometimes that doesn't feel good, particularly when you are

309
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,399
Speaker 1: if you like me, and you're an overachiever and you

310
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,600
Speaker 1: like to do things properly and you like to excel,

311
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:30,479
Speaker 1: stripping back, taking your foot off the pedal, giving yourself

312
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,119
Speaker 1: that permission to not take your kids so they're after

313
00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:37,239
Speaker 1: school sports, or not cook a home cooked meal. That

314
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,160
Speaker 1: doesn't feel good all right, But I also know that

315
00:18:41,159 --> 00:18:43,520
Speaker 1: that's what I need to do to look after myself

316
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:44,480
Speaker 1: in that moment.

317
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,840
Speaker 2: When you have made a decision like that, Often I

318
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,400
Speaker 2: think we anticipate that the response of the world around

319
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,879
Speaker 2: us will be judgemental or horrified or disappointed or whatever.

320
00:18:57,159 --> 00:18:59,920
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And this is what I realized last year.

321
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,879
Speaker 1: I was really badly burnt out. I had so many

322
00:19:03,879 --> 00:19:06,600
Speaker 1: people offer me help when Michael was away working. I said, no,

323
00:19:06,679 --> 00:19:09,320
Speaker 1: I'm good, I've got it. I suppose I had this

324
00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,719
Speaker 1: idea in my head that I'd beaten the fire, so

325
00:19:12,879 --> 00:19:16,359
Speaker 1: like solo parenting and running a business not that fucking hard.

326
00:19:17,159 --> 00:19:19,479
Speaker 1: And so there was this story going in my head like,

327
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,959
Speaker 1: stop being a pussy, Stop being a little bitch. You

328
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 1: wanted kids, you wanted a family, you wanted a business.

329
00:19:26,639 --> 00:19:29,639
Speaker 1: You've got it now, so don't fucking complain about it.

330
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,919
Speaker 1: That was this story I was telling myself in my head.

331
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,479
Speaker 1: And what I realized now after I suppose getting therapy

332
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,159
Speaker 1: and getting mental health support, is that asking people for

333
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,999
Speaker 1: help or support often they're really happy to help to

334
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,159
Speaker 1: start with. But also, if I had a deadline and

335
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,639
Speaker 1: it was tomorrow and I hadn't done the thing, I'd

336
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,919
Speaker 1: just stay up until midnight until it was done, because

337
00:19:56,919 --> 00:19:58,600
Speaker 1: I said I was going to have it to them tomorrow.

338
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,159
Speaker 1: And now I'm like, I won't have it to you tomorrow,

339
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,519
Speaker 1: but I can have it to you next week. And

340
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:12,280
Speaker 1: the answer pretty much always has been no worries. Like

341
00:20:12,399 --> 00:20:15,999
Speaker 1: too easy. So I realized, Fuck, how much harder have

342
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:21,919
Speaker 1: I made my life for myself by being so so binary, right,

343
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,799
Speaker 1: by being so driven, by being such a such a

344
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,919
Speaker 1: stickler for the unwritten rules.

345
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:34,639
Speaker 2: But I think it's possibly twofold in you, because you're obviously,

346
00:20:35,399 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 2: as you said, a very driven person, very disciplined. But

347
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:45,919
Speaker 2: do you think you also took on post your continuing recovery,

348
00:20:46,159 --> 00:20:49,479
Speaker 2: your continuing treatments. Do you think you also took on

349
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 2: I need to show that I'm capable of doing all

350
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,040
Speaker 2: these things that I would have been able to do before.

351
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, And it was I suppose I wanted

352
00:20:58,159 --> 00:21:01,280
Speaker 1: to prove that to everyone else, like, hey, I know

353
00:21:01,399 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 1: I've got a disability, but I can still do everything.

354
00:21:05,159 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 1: And you know, when Michael's around, I can kind of

355
00:21:08,639 --> 00:21:12,920
Speaker 1: pretend I don't because I can be cocking. I can say, hey,

356
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:14,920
Speaker 1: D can help not this jar ofd pasta sauce. He'll

357
00:21:14,919 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 1: come and do it. But when he is not there,

358
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:21,479
Speaker 1: I'm like, fuck, I can't open this, you know, And

359
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 1: that's not good for my ego either.

360
00:21:23,919 --> 00:21:27,639
Speaker 2: No, to come face to face with those limitations that

361
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,920
Speaker 2: once again pivot you back to a point of trauma.

362
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose. I don't find like not being able

363
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,799
Speaker 1: to do things. I don't find it traumatic, but I

364
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 1: do find it frustrating. It does frustrate me when I

365
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,680
Speaker 1: can't do things that I used to be able to do.

366
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 2: After the break to reasshares how reading through some dark

367
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 2: journaling trees became the moment she realized she needed to

368
00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 2: ask for help. When you started on this questioning really

369
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,959
Speaker 2: of how you could return yourself to yourself and start

370
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 2: to enjoy this life that you had built and that

371
00:22:08,399 --> 00:22:12,119
Speaker 2: you had dreamed off, but that you weren't enjoying, do

372
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 2: you think at that point you knew inside yourself that

373
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 2: you were getting wobbly?

374
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, yeah, of course, I think I definitely did.

375
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: I think that's part of the reason why I set

376
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:30,159
Speaker 1: out on this project to be selfish, because I could

377
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 1: sense I could sense something like brewing on the horizon.

378
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,999
Speaker 1: I know that sounds quite quite dramatic, but I could.

379
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,759
Speaker 1: I could sense something nebulous about to happen. And I

380
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,360
Speaker 1: think that's why, you know, part of the reason I

381
00:22:47,399 --> 00:22:50,479
Speaker 1: went to get a mental health care plan was because

382
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: I was rereading some of the stuff that I'd written,

383
00:22:54,639 --> 00:22:57,919
Speaker 1: and I, yeah, I always get complimented on, like how

384
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,159
Speaker 1: energetic and vivacious and fun I am. And the stuff

385
00:23:01,159 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 1: I'd written was actually really fucking dark, right, you know,

386
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,959
Speaker 1: I've got I've got so many good girlfriends that I

387
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 1: love and I don't. And I called one of them

388
00:23:09,879 --> 00:23:12,959
Speaker 1: and I kind of told her what had been going on.

389
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 1: She was the one who encouraged me to go get

390
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 1: a mental health care plan.

391
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,719
Speaker 2: When you spoke to her, what did you What were

392
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 2: the headlines at that point?

393
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 1: Oh? The headlines were like I just I just told

394
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,479
Speaker 1: her some of the stuff i'd written, like that I

395
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 1: felt like I was in the way that I felt

396
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: like I was an inconvenience, that I felt like I wasn't,

397
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: I wasn't enough. Just stuff like that, which isn't, which

398
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: hadn't been reflective of my everyday experience up until that point.

399
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 2: And why do you think, I mean, there might not

400
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 2: be an answer to this, but why do you think

401
00:23:49,879 --> 00:23:51,640
Speaker 2: that it built to that crescendo?

402
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Maybe because, you know, because I told

403
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: myself that I'd beaten the fire, so like normal life

404
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: shouldn't be hard. Because I told myself that I didn't

405
00:24:04,159 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 1: need help for anyone, and I could do everything by

406
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: myself because I didn't have very good boundaries with strangers,

407
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 1: but also people that I work with or people in

408
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: my work life. Yeah, I think maybe those are some

409
00:24:17,679 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 1: of the reasons.

410
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,919
Speaker 2: Because I find it so curious about you, A real

411
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 2: tell about you.

412
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, do I have it to well?

413
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 2: I just think because psychologically, I think what you achieve

414
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 2: is extraordinary anyway, even for someone who hasn't experienced what

415
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 2: you've experienced. Like you've moved a family three times, you've

416
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 2: lived on your own, you do marathons, you've got a

417
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 2: running club, you know, you do everything, and yet you say,

418
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 2: post the fire, none of these things should be hard. Yeah,

419
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 2: but of course these things are also harder for you

420
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 2: because it's post the fire. But you don't allow yourself

421
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 2: that little bit of grace at.

422
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: All, or you didn't no, And I think that's what

423
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 1: I learn about burnout too, right, because I felt like

424
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: I felt pathetic having burnout because whilst I did work hard,

425
00:25:14,639 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: I wasn't like a surgeon working eighty hours a week, right.

426
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: But what I learned about burnout is it's more common

427
00:25:23,679 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: amongst women, more common amongst women who have really high standards,

428
00:25:29,639 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: more common amongst women who are caring for others, so

429
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: like kids or older parents are you know, even sometimes

430
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,999
Speaker 1: doing both at the same time. It's more common amongst

431
00:25:41,159 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: women who are marginalized or who a woman of color

432
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: or live with the disability. So when I learned all

433
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 1: of that stuff, I suppose cogs started to turn in

434
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 1: my mind. And no matter how long I've been screaming

435
00:25:58,679 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: not it shouldn't be hard, it shouldn't be hard, it

436
00:26:00,879 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 1: shouldn't be hard, it actually was fucking hard. Actually was

437
00:26:05,159 --> 00:26:09,999
Speaker 1: really hard. Even though if I'm being honest, Yeah, you

438
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: go on social media, you see everyone else's highlights reel

439
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: everything else they're doing and achieving with eight kids. I'm

440
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: thinking valerin a farm.

441
00:26:20,639 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 2: Trad wives, the trade wife, the ciger, Like, how.

442
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: Are they doing that? Their homeschool and eight kids. They're

443
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: been doing ballet, They're doing ballet. They've got like they've

444
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,799
Speaker 1: got a body of a super bottle. They're just like

445
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: they're out there milk and the cows. Even though I'm

446
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: on social media, I know it's not I know it's

447
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: not reflect I know it's not real. I suppose it

448
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 1: does influence our our perceptions.

449
00:26:43,679 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 2: Well. Also, when people would look at your highlight reels. Yeah,

450
00:26:48,399 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 2: I mean I would think that of you.

451
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,279
Speaker 1: I try not to do that because I've been the

452
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 1: person looking at social media feeling shit about my own life.

453
00:26:59,399 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: So I try to be I hate this word, but

454
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: I try to be likethentic. I tried to be myself.

455
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,999
Speaker 1: I tried to let people know that it's okay to

456
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 1: ask for help, that it's okay if you're struggling, that

457
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: it's okay if you're not coping. But this is the

458
00:27:15,159 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: weird thing. I gave all of this really great advice.

459
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: You know, if you're struggling to tell someone I didn't.

460
00:27:20,679 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 1: I didn't take it. I didn't take it myself.

461
00:27:23,399 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 2: But so often the case.

462
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,479
Speaker 1: Yeah it is. Now that I've been through it, I

463
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: don't want it to happen again. But I suppose now,

464
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: after I was burnt, it was pretty fucking obvious why

465
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: I would need mental health support. But I suppose last

466
00:27:39,679 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: year the reasons, to me, at least, were less obvious.

467
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,959
Speaker 1: After what I've learned, I understand myself a little bit

468
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 1: more after writing the book, I understand myself a little

469
00:27:49,399 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 1: bit more. But I also think that there were some

470
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 1: warning signs leading up to that right, So feeling like

471
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: you've got no time in the day, and you get

472
00:27:58,919 --> 00:28:00,239
Speaker 1: up at night and you try and work, but you

473
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: can't do anything because your brain hasn't rested, it hasn't

474
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,239
Speaker 1: switched off. That could have been a warning side to

475
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,799
Speaker 1: me that something wasn't quite right. And so go and

476
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 1: through that experience. I feel like if I get to

477
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: that point again, I'll say, Okay, I think I know

478
00:28:16,919 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: what I need. I need. I need some support, or

479
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: I need to ask I need to get my kids

480
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,999
Speaker 1: into after school care two days a week just so

481
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,479
Speaker 1: I can get a bit of breathing space. Or I

482
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: need to tell Michael how I'm feeling and so that

483
00:28:30,879 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: he's going to take more of the load on it

484
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: at home. Or I'm just going to fucking take a

485
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: sick day at work and I'm not going to do anything.

486
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: So I think I've got all of those strategies.

487
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: Now, when you talk about Michael, who is himself a

488
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 2: remarkable person, Yes, I would expect you to have a

489
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 2: remarkable partner. How aware or unaware was he of what

490
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 2: was going on with you when you were floundering.

491
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: He was unaware. He had started a new job and

492
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:06,039
Speaker 1: he was working at big chunks of time, and I

493
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: didn't want him to be like distracted or to have

494
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: to worry about me because he'd started something, something new.

495
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: And I suppose there's a bit of guilt there too,

496
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: because whilst my life has changed, his life has also

497
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: changed to And I was so happy for him, and

498
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: I was so proud of him, and so I suppose

499
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: I didn't want him to come back after two weeks

500
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: of work and they'd be like, so I want to,

501
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: you know, I want to tell you what's been happening

502
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: with me. So I don't think I don't think he

503
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: was aware.

504
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 2: Was there a part of you as well that when

505
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 2: he came back you didn't want to be the person

506
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 2: that wasn't the capable person you'd always prided yourself on being.

507
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. You know. I wanted to preach

508
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: down that we'd been good, the boys had been happy,

509
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: like the house had been running smoothly, work was going good.

510
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: I suppose I wanted to present that to him so

511
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: that he wasn't he wasn't worried about what was happening

512
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: at home, so he could concentrate on his job. Again.

513
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: In retrospect, that was a fucking stupid idea, you know

514
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like because the more people in, the

515
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: more you give them context, the more they understand.

516
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 2: Yes, you know.

517
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,959
Speaker 1: And I could have said to Michael Haye when you

518
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: go away, I really struggle, you know, and I don't

519
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: want to struggle, and maybe we could have come up

520
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: with some ideas at the time to help us navigate

521
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: that that I just just closed everything off. And I

522
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: didn't tell him because I thought I was doing the

523
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: right thing, because I didn't want to worry him. But

524
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking about what I needed. You know. I

525
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,959
Speaker 1: expected myself to just be able to solve it, just

526
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: be able to deal with it, just be able to

527
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: roll with it, just be able to navigate it, do

528
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: it all myself, not tell anyone. And even if I

529
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: didn't have any idea of how to cope, well fuck it,

530
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: I had to. That was my mentality. And it didn't.

531
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: It didn't turn out well, you know, it didn't turn out.

532
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 2: Well, that never does that never does.

533
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,239
Speaker 1: I think I was so arogo because I was like,

534
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: you know what, I know everyone around me would say

535
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: this is a bad idea, but I'm really confident that

536
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: that me to reappear I can pull this off.

537
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 2: What was the moment when you confess to him?

538
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't actually confess to him. I told

539
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: him when I got a mental health care plan. Oh yeah,

540
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: I told him that. And he's always been so supportive,

541
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: so he was like, yeah, darl if that's what you

542
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: need to do, that's a that's a great idea. You know.

543
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: He's like the most the loveliest, kindest men, So he

544
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: was so so supportive. And I suppose since I've come

545
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,759
Speaker 1: out of that fog, I've been able to share with

546
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: him more and more about what last year was like for.

547
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: Me, and has he been surprised by that.

548
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: Michael was very unphased by like most stuff that happens,

549
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: so he hasn't been like, oh my gosh, I can't

550
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: believe that. He's just been like, oh yeah, okay. Yeah.

551
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: He's very, very very unfazed and unflappable. But it's interesting

552
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: because when I was writing this book, and particularly with

553
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: the mental load chapter, I sent out a survey and

554
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: I think I got because like a thousand people responded

555
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: to me, and I got an insight into how other

556
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: people managed this stuff in their home lives. And while

557
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: some of the women had tried to communicate with their partners,

558
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: a lot of them actually didn't, you know, so maybe

559
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: there's a lot of women out there.

560
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 2: Here they kept it to themselves.

561
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, because again, you want to be you want to

562
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: keep the family together, You want to make sure everyone

563
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: else is okay. You just think I'll fucking slid it

564
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: out myself at another point, you know, laid it down

565
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:13,959
Speaker 1: the track.

566
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 2: Also, it's been kind of a it's a modern trap

567
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,999
Speaker 2: that I think we're more conscious of now, even if

568
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 2: we don't necessarily act upon it.

569
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. You know, in the nineties, I was

570
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: raised by my mom. We moved here from Tahiti. I

571
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: was raised by mom. I've got three brothers. She worked

572
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: full time, she cooked dinner, the household ran smoothly, and

573
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: every night she'd write. So that was my like, that

574
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: was my role model growing up. And she never complained,

575
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: never wined. She was stressed, She was stressed a lot

576
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: of the time, but she just did it all. And

577
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: I think Michael's mum was.

578
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 2: The same too, same with my mother in law.

579
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just what women did. And again that's part

580
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: of the reason why I felt like a little bit

581
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: because I was like all of these other women around you,

582
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: all of these older women that you look up turning respect,

583
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: they've all done this, they've been through it. But again,

584
00:34:11,720 --> 00:34:15,359
Speaker 1: what was great about writing was that when I was

585
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: sharing it with my mom, she said she was like,

586
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: I was so unhappy. She was like, I just I

587
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 1: couldn't let your kids know. But you never knew so unhappy.

588
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 2: You never knew. No.

589
00:34:25,799 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 1: And again, it's not a kid's job. It's not their

590
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: job to make sure that your needs are met.

591
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 2: And she actually says that to you. In fact, that

592
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 2: whole part in your book where you go to Tahiti

593
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 2: and you take your boys and your brothers are there

594
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 2: and you yeah, that is a remarkable journey. But also

595
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 2: you came back with such revelations there, including about your

596
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 2: mom's life.

597
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, because so mom moved back to Tahiti to look

598
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,760
Speaker 1: after her mom, and she lived on a little atole

599
00:34:58,799 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: over there on our ancestral land, and she would time

600
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 1: with these stories on the phone, and it sounded all

601
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: sounded so idyllic, you know, like a nephew dropping around fish,

602
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: she's going to her cousin's house to teach the kids English.

603
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 1: It was this real network of kinship, everyone helping each other,

604
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: and that's not what life feels like for the most

605
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: part in our modern Western world. You know, you have

606
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 1: a village, but you know it's after school care or

607
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 1: it's something that you're paying for. And I realized that

608
00:35:30,759 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: what I'd done up until that point is I tried

609
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: to be selfless, put everyone needs before my own. But

610
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,879
Speaker 1: because everyone else was so busy and so involved with

611
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:47,039
Speaker 1: their life, they didn't have the capacity to check back

612
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 1: in with me to make sure that my needs were

613
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: being met too, So it was it was good. Mum's

614
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: style works if you live in a traditional village, but

615
00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: with the way our Western world is set up for now,

616
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,399
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it couldn't be better. I don't think

617
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: it works, or at least it hasn't hasn't worked for

618
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: me because when I've given and given and given, I've

619
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: just ended up with the dregs at the bottom of

620
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: the cup.

621
00:36:16,279 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 2: And then she talked to you, which is such a

622
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 2: great concept for everybody, and it's a Tahitian concept, or

623
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: she uses the term your mana, is it yours?

624
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: Yeah? Manna? Yeah manner, So manna is like a Polynesian

625
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 1: concept and it's like you're you're in a force or

626
00:36:34,279 --> 00:36:38,879
Speaker 1: you're your spiritual power. Right, maybe you could even think

627
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: of it as like you're in a child or you

628
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: know when people say you've got to protect protect your peace,

629
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: have you ever heard that? Yes, yes, it may be

630
00:36:46,799 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: a little bit similar. And so what I realized after

631
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,399
Speaker 1: talking with Mom, because I talked with Mom the whole

632
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: way through this book, she gave me such insight for

633
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: each different each different stage that I was at. But

634
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: she said that I needed to restore my manner because

635
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: I just been giving it away, giving it away, not

636
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: having boundaries, doing this, doing that, not checking in with

637
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: my own needs. And that's part of the reason why

638
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:17,439
Speaker 1: I was so depleted. She used a Tararitian She used

639
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: Tarititian words for the laugh of me. I can't. I

640
00:37:19,759 --> 00:37:24,439
Speaker 1: can't fucking remember what they they they. If I could

641
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 1: have Revi, it would be a lot cooler, but I can't.

642
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,479
Speaker 2: But she recognized in you how depleted you were.

643
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,399
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, because I told her everything that had been

644
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: going on. So she said, you need to restore your manner,

645
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 1: and how do you do that? Yeah, So she said,

646
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 1: your manner can be restored. It's basically like self care. Right,

647
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: So going for a walk with a friend, she said,

648
00:37:47,759 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: like swimming in a river, and I was like, I

649
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 1: don't know if she knows what Australia's like. It's not

650
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: heaps of not. But also she said, your manner can

651
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: be violated when there is an assault on your dignity.

652
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 1: That sounded really hardcore, but with the boundaries thing, that

653
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 1: did feel like a circumstance where my sensive dignity was

654
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 1: being violated. Right.

655
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 2: That's amazing. When she said that to you, did you

656
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 2: put those pieces together straight away? Or it took a

657
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 2: little while to recognize.

658
00:38:27,279 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 1: No. No, Because I would speak to my mom. She

659
00:38:30,759 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 1: would just download all of this Polynesian knowledge and information

660
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: onto me and then I would say, Okay, I gotta

661
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 1: go mom, And then I would think about it after

662
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: and then write down some of it. So I didn't

663
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: recognize it straight away at all. It was probably a

664
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 1: couple of days after that. But I liked how I

665
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: liked how seriously she took the idea right, and the

666
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: words she used, like an assault on your dignity, your

667
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 1: manner was being violated, they're quite strong. And even with

668
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: this idea of self care, I had always assumed it

669
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: was like bubble bas and like a trial step skin

670
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 1: care regime and this and that. But self care is

671
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: actually an idea that was popularized by the Black Panthers

672
00:39:19,759 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: in America in the nineteen seventies, and they realized that

673
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 1: if they were going to advocate for racial equality, that

674
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 1: they needed to take care of themselves, and they looked

675
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: at it as self preservation. So I think almost politicizing

676
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: these concepts from me has made me take it more seriously.

677
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 1: So if I go to the gym, I'm not just

678
00:39:41,799 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 1: I'm not just fucking going to the gym. I'm looking

679
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,280
Speaker 1: after myself. That's what I need to do to preserve

680
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: my sense of self. That's what I need to do

681
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 1: to make sure that I'm okay in this crazy modern

682
00:39:53,799 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: world that we navigate.

683
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 2: Don't Go Anywhere. Next to Read discusses why women in

684
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 2: particular are so prone to burn out when you are

685
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 2: engaging in this concept of self care that I think

686
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 2: a lot of people, a lot of women, let's say

687
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 2: women might not teend to do because of being scared

688
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 2: of being selfish. Did you address it with Michael and

689
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,439
Speaker 2: say this is what I'm going to start to do,

690
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 2: or did you just do it, and was it even noticed?

691
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: I just did it. I just did it, and it

692
00:40:36,759 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't noticed.

693
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 2: No.

694
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, And this is the thing. I'd been waiting for

695
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: someone to tap me on the shoulder and be like, hey, Teria,

696
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: go for a run, you know, go out to lunch

697
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: with your friends. Michael had never never stopped me from

698
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 1: doing any of those activities before. I just felt like

699
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,919
Speaker 1: I wasn't entitled to it. And I know it's not

700
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 1: just me. There's been so much literature down about how

701
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: women and this is broadbrush Stokes Kate, so definitely not

702
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 1: saying this is the case for every woman out there,

703
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: but for most women, we don't feel entitled to take

704
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: leisure for ourselves. And part of that is the idea

705
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 1: that women are valorized for how selfless they are, yes,

706
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: for how giving they are.

707
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 2: Look at Mother's Day, Yeah, it's always a celebration of

708
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 2: your cook you're cleaner, yep, you know, yep, yeah.

709
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,280
Speaker 1: How much you do for everyone else?

710
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 2: And also, by the way, can I just say, I

711
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 2: think there's a certain nobility in that, and there's a

712
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 2: beauty in what a lot of women have, which is

713
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 2: a nurturing capacity. I don't disrespect that at all, but

714
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 2: when it comes to the point where it's actually depleting

715
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 2: you and meaning that you're not enjoying your own life,

716
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 2: because love is the most effective way of enslaving anybody,

717
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 2: and you're living like a slave, then it's a problem.

718
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I consider myself to be a nurturer and caring, beautiful, loving,

719
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: compassionate woman. But we have this this idea or you know,

720
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: women are placed on this pedestal for how much they

721
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: do for everyone else, you know. So that's part of

722
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: the reason why we don't feel like it's okay for

723
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: us to go to the gym, or to catch up

724
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: with a girlfriend for a coffee, or to go to polities.

725
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 1: Even how we talk about women's fitness, you know, pilates

726
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: for example, which is if anyone does pilarates, it's they

727
00:42:55,279 --> 00:42:59,039
Speaker 1: know it's really fucking hard, but we almost talk about

728
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: it in a condescending way. Or even with surfing, it

729
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 1: gets I don't know if you've ever heard this, Kate,

730
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 1: it gets called girfing.

731
00:43:08,799 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 2: Oh when girls do it.

732
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, when girls go for a surf, it's.

733
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 2: Like, oh, no, I haven't heard.

734
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, you're going for a girf, like, how

735
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: lucky are you? So again, we're not taking it seriously,

736
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: we're trivializing it. We're saying, oh, well, guys are surfing,

737
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: but women are down here because they're only girfing, and

738
00:43:28,799 --> 00:43:31,240
Speaker 1: so you know, this is not going to be everyone's

739
00:43:31,279 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: experience at all. But that was the literature that I

740
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 1: found when I was writing this book.

741
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 2: You know, because you're in a very happy relationship.

742
00:43:42,799 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm going to just jump in Kate, this is

743
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:49,839
Speaker 1: what I mean. I realized, Sorry, I realized how number one,

744
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: how supportive Michael is. But we are in a happy relationship.

745
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 1: Because when women wrote back to my mental load survey,

746
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: the answers that I read, we're heartbreaking, you know, because

747
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 1: some other women were punished, punished for broaching the subject

748
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: of the mental load or for daring to have the

749
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: audacity to suggest that their partnership in every now and again,

750
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: so they were ghastly there was physical abuse. So for

751
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,919
Speaker 1: those women it wasn't it actually wasn't safe for them

752
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: to talk with their partner about how they were going

753
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: to share the mental load.

754
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: And even putting those experiences to one side. For people

755
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 2: that are in a traditional relationship and a happy one.

756
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 2: There is a difference in my experience. And my husband's

757
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 2: a most brilliant, you know, modern man who raised our

758
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 2: kids when I was at work, you know, doing breakfast

759
00:44:49,799 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 2: radio for twelve years or whatever, so he can run

760
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 2: a household. He doesn't have weaponized incompetence except when it

761
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:05,439
Speaker 2: comes to washing. But in my experience, and I found

762
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 2: myself in a very similar situation to you when our

763
00:45:08,759 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 2: kids were little and I was working and I had

764
00:45:10,759 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 2: four kids under six, And I said to Peter at

765
00:45:13,759 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 2: the time, yeah, I said to Peter at the time,

766
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:20,439
Speaker 2: I remember this, Yeah, I feel like I'm working so

767
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 2: that everyone else can have a beautiful life except me.

768
00:45:25,279 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 2: And then it caused me to He was so shocked

769
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 2: by that, right, because they don't necessarily see the same

770
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 2: things as we discussed that we feel maybe we're good

771
00:45:39,279 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 2: at hiding them, but also we expect men to be

772
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 2: anticipatory of our needs the way our girlfriends are. Like

773
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 2: a girlfriend will go, oh my goodness, you need to

774
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:55,839
Speaker 2: get away, you need to data, let's do a thing,

775
00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: let's do it. In my experience, men don't necessarily operate

776
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 2: or see things the same way.

777
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: No, and like thank fun, Thank fuck they dies, And like,

778
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: you know, I recognize what a privileged position it is

779
00:46:13,279 --> 00:46:17,439
Speaker 1: to be in to have a happy relationship, and then

780
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: to be like, oh, he doesn't he doesn't operate in

781
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,359
Speaker 1: the way, yes, that I would like him to operate in.

782
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 2: So I.

783
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 1: Know that about Michael. Even though I know that I

784
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: probably do still sometimes get shitty when he doesn't read

785
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: my mind and get the groceries that I wanted, even

786
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 1: though I didn't ask him for the things that I wanted.

787
00:46:41,799 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, I probably still do still do get shitty

788
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 1: at him for stuff like that.

789
00:46:46,799 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 2: But that's the message of your book, which was initially

790
00:46:51,759 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 2: for yourself and now you're sharing it with others, is

791
00:46:55,120 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 2: that the onus is on you to protect yourself, to

792
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 2: recognize what your self needs and hints the selfish.

793
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, if I was in burnout last

794
00:47:09,279 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 1: year and someone said the onus is on you, Teria,

795
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 1: to protect yourself, I probably would have told that person

796
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 1: to get fucked, you know, because you're so you're so

797
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: you're so overwhelmed, you're so stressed, you're so burned out.

798
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: And so if people are in burnout right now and

799
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: they're listening to this and they're thinking, go fuck yourself,

800
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: ter Rea, I understand.

801
00:47:33,279 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 2: They've got a long way through the podcast to me

802
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 2: now thinking go fuck yourself to Rea.

803
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I understand. And there are some really great

804
00:47:42,279 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: strategies out there that you can try to help alleviate

805
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,039
Speaker 1: that sense of burnout. But I would recommend the book

806
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: on Burnout by the Nagosky Twins as a starting as

807
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: a starting place. But ultimately I think the book is

808
00:47:55,239 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: about looking after your own well being, protecting your peace,

809
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: looking after your manner, making sure you're doing things to

810
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 1: restore or that I suppose those levels of matter, but

811
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 1: maybe also not having unrealistic expectations of yourself, you know,

812
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:14,959
Speaker 1: not expecting yourself to be able to work a full day,

813
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 1: come home, cook a home cooke to me, I'll take

814
00:48:17,279 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: the kids all of their sport, read them a story

815
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 1: at the end of the day. Maybe you can do

816
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: that some days, and that's that's amazing, that's wonderful. But

817
00:48:25,759 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 1: on the days where you feel so drained and so depleted,

818
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:31,439
Speaker 1: maybe you just say, hey, what's one thing I could

819
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: do which is going to make this day feel a

820
00:48:33,759 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: little bit easier.

821
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 2: Since you've been implementing these strategies, how has your day

822
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:40,280
Speaker 2: to day life changed.

823
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 1: Oh, it's like chalk and cheese compared to last year.

824
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 1: But I do feel more boring, ah, because I'm not no.

825
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,959
Speaker 1: This is the other side of the climb. Because people

826
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 1: ask me to do things, I'm like, you know what,

827
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 1: that's gonna that might push me over the edge. So

828
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 1: I'm actually going to say no to that. So maybe

829
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 1: I'm being extra cautious this year, and maybe that will

830
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:10,919
Speaker 1: change in a few years. But I feel well. I

831
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: feel strong physically and mentally, which is amazing after so

832
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: many years of feeling frazzled and stressed.

833
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 2: You feel happy.

834
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:26,919
Speaker 1: I feel I don't know if I think this has

835
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: been a pot an interview which has really tested my

836
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: intellectual bounds. So thank you, Kate. No, but I feel good.

837
00:49:34,759 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: I feel good.

838
00:49:35,799 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 2: Because you've actually written a book about happiness. I was

839
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:39,240
Speaker 2: going to recommend it to you.

840
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,799
Speaker 1: This is this is a fucking irony. When I went

841
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:44,919
Speaker 1: to get my mental health care plan, I sat in

842
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 1: the GP's office and I saw my book on happiness

843
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: right there, bright yellow cover. I look really hot, my

844
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: hair is blowing in the wind machine. And then I

845
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: had to say, hey, you know, and I read that

846
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: book on happiness, but I'm actually here for a mental

847
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 1: health care planned.

848
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 2: Well, if we know one thing about life, know that

849
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:06,240
Speaker 2: it humbles us all.

850
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: And haven't I been fucking humbled? I thought I was

851
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 1: a bit of a big dog, surviving the fire, doing

852
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 1: iron Man Rold Championships, traveling around the world, giving motivational speeches,

853
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: having a run club, writing these books, and then last

854
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: year it all just came undone. So I have been Yeah,

855
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:27,879
Speaker 1: I've actually been really humbled by life. I didn't think

856
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 1: of it like that, but that's a good way to

857
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: think of it. Yeah, very humbled.

858
00:50:32,279 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 2: You know the other thing I think about, Michael, Yeah,

859
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 2: maybe years ago twenty eleven when you were caught in

860
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 2: the fire, and sometime after that, you know, the whole

861
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 2: world was kind of watching you from a distance. Obviously,

862
00:50:46,799 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 2: is she going to survive?

863
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: Is she?

864
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 2: And then through your various operations and rehabilitations in your

865
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 2: stepping into public life, in and out of it. But

866
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 2: Michael said the most amazing thing. He said, people talk

867
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 2: about going to hell and back, but Teria went to

868
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,879
Speaker 2: hell and Hell spat her out.

869
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 1: That's it is? That is he a poet?

870
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 2: Oh is just the most I'm like, is this guy

871
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 2: a copper? Is he a copper, a helicopter pilot or

872
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:23,359
Speaker 2: what it? Yes, he's a poet, but also has such

873
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 2: a profound, deep and abiding love and respect for you

874
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 2: and the essence of who you are that is shared

875
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 2: by many of us.

876
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 1: Really, yeah, And I wouldn't have been able to write

877
00:51:38,799 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 1: any of the books I have because you know, writing

878
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 1: is such a vulnerable experience. You know, you're putting your

879
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 1: darkest thoughts, your deepest fears, You're putting it out all

880
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,919
Speaker 1: there on a page, then you're publishing it, then you're

881
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: going on podcast interviews to talk about all of that

882
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 1: dark shit that you put in a book. And if

883
00:51:57,279 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 1: Michael was a different man, maybe he would say, I

884
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:01,959
Speaker 1: don't want you to put out put that out there

885
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 1: on the public record, or I don't want you to

886
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 1: tell that hot chocolate story, or I don't want you

887
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,320
Speaker 1: to say this, or I don't want you to say

888
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:10,319
Speaker 1: to say that.

889
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 2: And I don't say I was sitting on the couch, don't.

890
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: Say I was sitting on the couch. Say I was

891
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:17,919
Speaker 1: doing the dishes, don't say that. No, So like you would,

892
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to do that. If he wasn't

893
00:52:19,759 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 1: the person that he was.

894
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 2: Why don't you marry him?

895
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,760
Speaker 1: Then? I lie, we need to mate. We've had two kids,

896
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 1: We've gone through fucking COVID, We've moved three times. I've

897
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: written seven books. Yes, okay, just.

898
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 2: I don't want to add to your mental live You're

899
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:34,839
Speaker 2: to it.

900
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I lie. You know what the kids are asking

901
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 1: us to They're like, why are you guys married? Yes?

902
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what do you say?

903
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 1: I just like, yeah, it's on the fucking list along

904
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:49,959
Speaker 1: with no we do we.

905
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 2: Do it, along with buying the right hot chocolate.

906
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:53,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, we know, we do want to get married. And

907
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 1: I think, because now I'm going to be like, I'm

908
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 1: thirty eight this year, so I think i'd probably have

909
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 1: my boys walking down the aisle. Sorry, sorry dad, because

910
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,879
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like it's dad's walking down

911
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: the aisle when you're a bit of a younger bride.

912
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: But I feel like, I don't know, I want my

913
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 1: kids to walk me down the aisle.

914
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 2: Dad can have the first dance.

915
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, he can have the first dance. Yeah.

916
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 2: To repit, What a gift you are to the nation

917
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 2: and the world. You really are. Your manner is strong.

918
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 2: You've got strong manner.

919
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 1: You can use that now, Okay, I'll let you use that.

920
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,479
Speaker 2: I love it. I love that concept because sometimes you're

921
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 2: not sure what you know. There's not always time to

922
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 2: work out exactly what everything is, but you always know

923
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 2: when something's a little bit off.

924
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:49,280
Speaker 1: You do know, Yeah, you do know. And I've learned

925
00:53:49,279 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 1: to stop expecting myself to just absorb all of that

926
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: stress and that anxiety and stop expecting myself to somehow

927
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 1: figure it out by myself internally without sharing it with

928
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 1: anyone else.

929
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:09,439
Speaker 2: You know, when you talk about how people, through curiosity

930
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:16,320
Speaker 2: or rudeness or whatever misguided interest, breach your personal boundaries

931
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 2: when they ask about your appearance or what happened to you,

932
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 2: what would you like people to do or say, Oh.

933
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:29,839
Speaker 1: So, I look. I teach my kids that it's not

934
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 1: polite to comment on people's bodies, Like so, if there

935
00:54:34,279 --> 00:54:38,799
Speaker 1: is someone who is for whatever reason, you feel like

936
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: maybe they look different, maybe they have a disability, maybe

937
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:46,919
Speaker 1: they're really really tall, whatever it is. I think what

938
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: I teach my kid is just don't come out on

939
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 1: people's bodies because maybe they'll be fine with that and

940
00:54:53,279 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: be happy to answer questions, but maybe also not. And

941
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: it's probably just best to just not comment on it.

942
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 2: Well to reappitch, I will comment on what a remark

943
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 2: writer you are.

944
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you reading the book too. Thank you.

945
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:13,039
Speaker 2: Oh, I really cannot recommend this book highly enough. Yeah,

946
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:15,399
Speaker 2: because it's a very strange. When I read the book,

947
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 2: I'm like, what does she want? What does she want?

948
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 2: What else does she want? And I want? Well, yes,

949
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 2: but what is the quest?

950
00:55:27,279 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 1: Yeah?

951
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what is the quest?

952
00:55:30,759 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: To reappeach The quest for me is to keep being

953
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 1: a bit selfish, even though it's hard at times, making

954
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 1: sure I make that time to do things for myself.

955
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: And when if Michael is away at work or for

956
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 1: whatever reason, I can't make time to do those acts

957
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: of self care, maybe there's still things I can do,

958
00:55:52,759 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 1: you know, even though it feels good at the time.

959
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't drink the alcohol even though it feels

960
00:55:57,560 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 1: good at the time. Or maybe I just put my

961
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: phone down because that's going to make me feel a

962
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 1: bit more frazzled, write and a little bit more edge.

963
00:56:06,279 --> 00:56:08,839
Speaker 1: Maybe I think about I know, I said I was

964
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: going to do all of these things today, but I've

965
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:14,439
Speaker 1: waken up fairly tired. What can I cancel? What can

966
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 1: I move what can I push out until next week?

967
00:56:17,759 --> 00:56:21,799
Speaker 2: To reappit. I look forward to everything that you do,

968
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 2: even if it's just you sitting on the couch. May

969
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:26,999
Speaker 2: you enjoy it?

970
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.

971
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 2: Well, that was such a fascinating discussion to reappit. Who's

972
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:42,919
Speaker 2: a writer, a mother, a runner, a survivor, and now,

973
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 2: by her own proud admission, selfish is an extraordinary person.

974
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 2: Her new book is out now and it's one of

975
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:54,999
Speaker 2: those reads that makes you rethink the stories we tell

976
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,839
Speaker 2: ourselves about what we owe other people and what we

977
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 2: owe ourselves. And her message is simple, but I guess radical.

978
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 2: Being selfish doesn't make you a bad person. In fact,

979
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 2: it might just make you a better one. Thanks for

980
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 2: listening to No Filter. The executive producer of No Filter

981
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 2: is Nama Brown. The senior producer is bre Player. Audio

982
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:24,919
Speaker 2: production is by Tina Mattloff, and video editing is by

983
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 2: Josh Green. This episode was recorded at Session in Progress Studios.

984
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 2: I am your host, Kate Langbrook and I will see

985
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 2: you next Monday. Mumma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of

986
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 2: the land and waters that this podcast is recorded on