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Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Mamma Mea acknowledges the

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Speaker 1: traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is

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Speaker 1: recorded on.

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Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Taylor Strano. This is Mamma Mer's twice daily

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Speaker 2: news podcast, The Quickie. Today we're sharing the story of

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Speaker 2: Donna Nelson, grandmother, community leader, and now convicted drug smuggler,

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Speaker 2: despite claims she was the victim of a love scammer.

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Speaker 2: Late last week, Donna lost her appeal to the japan

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Speaker 2: High Court. Now we'll be speaking with her shocked family

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Speaker 2: about it all before we get there. He is Clare

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Speaker 2: Murphy with the latest from the Quicki newsroom for Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: September thirty.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Taylor. US President Donald Trump has met with Israeli

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister Benjamin Ettnyahu this morning, Trump saying a Pea

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Speaker 1: steal for Gaza is very close. The White House released

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Speaker 1: a twenty point plan that outlined the peace process, including

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Speaker 1: that Palestinians would be able to stay in or return

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Speaker 1: to Gaza. But the plan relies on cooperation from Hamas,

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Speaker 1: the militant group whose attack on Israel on October seven

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Speaker 1: started the latest conflict, to release the Israeli hostages. The

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Speaker 1: plan would also seek to release hundreds of Palestinians held

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Speaker 1: in Israeli prisons, have the Israeli military withdrawal from Gaza

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Speaker 1: and AID returned to support the population who are left

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Speaker 1: with badly damaged or destroyed infrastructure. A temporary committee would

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Speaker 1: also be set up to govern Gaza, a committee headed

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Speaker 1: by Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: JK.

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Speaker 1: Rowling has hit back at Emma Watson as their feud

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Speaker 1: over trans issues continues. The Harry Potter author has suggested

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Speaker 1: that Watson's criticism of her critical stance on transgender issues

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Speaker 1: has poured more petrol on the flames of the abuse

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Speaker 1: she's been subjected to, even though the thirty five year

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Speaker 1: old star suggested last week that she still treasures Rowling

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Speaker 1: despite their differing opinions. In a lengthy statement posted on

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Speaker 1: social media, the sixty year old author wrote, Emma and Dan,

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Speaker 1: referring to Daniel Radcliffe, who played Harry Potter in the

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Speaker 1: series in particular, have both made it clear over the

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Speaker 1: last few years that they think our former professional association

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Speaker 1: gives them a particular rite, nay obligation to critique me

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Speaker 1: and my views in public. She went on to say

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Speaker 1: that years after they finished acting in Potter, they continue

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Speaker 1: to assume the role of de facto spokespeople for the

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Speaker 1: world I created. Rawling explained that she feels protective of

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Speaker 1: the Harry Potter trio, who she's known since they were

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Speaker 1: just ten years of age, but says she can no

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Speaker 1: longer stay silent on the criticism of her views, saying,

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Speaker 1: for the past few years, I've repeatedly declined invitations from

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Speaker 1: journalists a comment on Emma, specifically, most notably in The

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Speaker 1: Witch Trials of JK. Rowling, the podcast that covered her

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Speaker 1: trans issues. Ironically, she said, I told the producers I

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Speaker 1: didn't want her to be hounded as a result of

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Speaker 1: anything I said. Rowling suggested Watson's privileged upbringing makes her

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Speaker 1: unqualified to speak about trans issues that impact the general public,

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Speaker 1: saying that she Rowling wasn't a millionaire at fourteen, unlike Watson,

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Speaker 1: and that she'd lived in poverty while writing the book

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Speaker 1: that made Emma famous and therefore more qual to speak

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Speaker 1: about the issue of women's rights. The Utah Trade School

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Speaker 1: student charged with murdering right wing political activist Charlie Kirk

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Speaker 1: has made a brief court appearance where his new legal

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Speaker 1: defense team confirmed they will seek a preliminary hearing to

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Speaker 1: determine whether there's enough evidence to proceed to trial. Twenty

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Speaker 1: two year old Tyler Robinson is accused of firing the

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Speaker 1: single rifle shot from a rooftop sniper's perch that took

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Speaker 1: Kirk's life on September ten, while the right wing activist,

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Speaker 1: a close ally of President Donald Trump, was addressing a

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Speaker 1: crowd on a university campus in Utah. Robinson, who was

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Speaker 1: arrested after a thirty three hour manhunt, has been jailed

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Speaker 1: without bond on charges of aggravated murder and several other

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Speaker 1: criminal offenses, prosecutors saying they will seek the death penalty

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Speaker 1: if he's convicted. Robinson's lawyer said she didn't want to

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Speaker 1: waive the preliminary hearing, where the prosecution has to demonstrate

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Speaker 1: to the judge that there's sufficient evidence to support the charges.

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Speaker 1: The defense will also need time to examine the evidence,

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Speaker 1: suggesting it may take months before this hearing can take place.

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Speaker 1: Australia will be impacted by another of Donald Trump's decisions,

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Speaker 1: with the US presidents saying he will impose a one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent tariff on all films produced overseas. Australia has

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Speaker 1: become home to a swag of Hollywood movies and streaming

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Speaker 1: dramas in recent years, with blockbusters like Thor, Ragnarok, Aquaman,

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Speaker 1: some of the Mission Impossible franchise, and mad Max Fury

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Speaker 1: Road all filmed here, mostly in locations across New South

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Speaker 1: Wales and Queensland. But Trump says the movie making business

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Speaker 1: has been stolen from the US, just like stealing candy

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Speaker 1: from a baby. It's not clear what legal authority the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration would employ to impose the tariff. Back in May,

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Speaker 1: when Trump announced he was considering implementing the tariff on filmmaking,

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Speaker 1: studio executives said they couldn't see how it would work,

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Speaker 1: seeing as they relied on overseas productions spread across multiple countries,

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Speaker 1: including Australia.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Claire Next a story that sounds more like a

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Speaker 2: movie than real life, but for one Perth grandmother, it's

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Speaker 2: a heartbreaking reality. Donna Nelson's life looks on paper like

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Speaker 2: so many others. She raised five daughters, worked in social justice,

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Speaker 2: mentored others, and took on leadership roles in her community.

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Speaker 2: Donna's name was even on the ballot running for the Greens,

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Speaker 2: but behind the scenes, things were changing. It started with lockdowns.

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Speaker 2: Like all of us, Donna found herself spending more time online.

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Speaker 2: That's where she met Kelly through an international dating site.

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Speaker 2: He was charming. Claimed he was a businessman living in

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Speaker 2: Japan but originally from Nigeria, showing off snapshots of a

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Speaker 2: life that seemed successful and safe. Donna started talking to Kelly.

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Speaker 2: Trust grew and eventually she felt there could be love.

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Speaker 2: That's where things turned. Kelly arranged for Donna to travel

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Speaker 2: through Loud to Japan in January twenty twenty three. He

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Speaker 2: asked her to pick up a suitcase, just clothing samples,

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Speaker 2: he said, for the business. When Donna reached Narita Airport,

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Speaker 2: Japanese customs discovered something devastating two kilograms of meth and

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Speaker 2: phetamine hidden beneath a false bottom in the case. In

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Speaker 2: an instant, Donna went from hopeful traveler to accuse drug smuggler,

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Speaker 2: caught up in something she never saw coming. Despite Donna's

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Speaker 2: insistence that she had no idea what she was carrying,

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Speaker 2: she was arrested as she arrived in Tokyo. In Japan,

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Speaker 2: the conviction rate for drug smuggling offenses is sky high,

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Speaker 2: and any drug import into the country means years behind bars.

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Speaker 2: In December twenty twenty four, Donna was sentenced to six years.

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Speaker 2: Last week, she lost her appeal. The court claims she

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Speaker 2: should have known what was happening, but experts say her

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Speaker 2: experience fits the classic pattern of a romance scam, where

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Speaker 2: criminals start with trust and end with tragedy. Whenever her

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Speaker 2: family speaks about what's happened, the heartbreak comes through. They've

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Speaker 2: watched her struggle with anger, shade, and grief, and they

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Speaker 2: fought tirelessly to bring her home. Today we sit down

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Speaker 2: with two of Donna's daughters, Crystal and Ashley. They'll help

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Speaker 2: us understand how a trusted mum, loved by her family

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Speaker 2: and her community could wind up in the middle of

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Speaker 2: an international scandal. Crystal Ashley, thanks for joining us. Crystal,

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Speaker 2: I want to start with you. You and a few of

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Speaker 2: your sisters and some of Donna's grandkids were in Japan

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Speaker 2: for that decision on her appeal last week. Now that

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Speaker 2: was rejected, how's the family feeling at this current moment

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Speaker 2: in time.

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Speaker 4: I guess we're feeling a lot of support. We've had

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Speaker 4: a lot of support from the community. We've had a

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Speaker 4: lot of support from DEFAT. They have been checking in

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Speaker 4: to see how we're doing, and every time we go

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Speaker 4: over there we catch up with the consular officers who

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Speaker 4: visit mum, so we've got a pretty good relationship there

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Speaker 4: as well. We are feeling a bit of support as

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Speaker 4: well with our w premiere. We've seen a statement that

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Speaker 4: he made the day after the hearing. I guess it

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Speaker 4: was or decision. So even though it's been a very

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Speaker 4: difficult time, having that support helps you to get through

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Speaker 4: and it helps you to pick up the hope again,

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Speaker 4: because in the beginning it was really feeling like there's

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Speaker 4: no hope.

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Speaker 2: Actually, a lot of people would have seen your mum's name,

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Speaker 2: maybe read her story, but that doesn't necessarily mean they

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Speaker 2: know who she is as a woman. Can you tell

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Speaker 2: us a bit about your mum? What should people know

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Speaker 2: about Donner?

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Speaker 3: Mom is a very kind person. She's someone who she

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Speaker 3: doesn't need a lot to be happy, never been like

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Speaker 3: a materialistic sort of person. She just wants to be

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Speaker 3: loved and to share love. And ever since this whole

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Speaker 3: situation has come about, I think what really speaks to

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Speaker 3: the person that mum is is every time she finds

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Speaker 3: out about other people who are in a similar situation.

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Speaker 3: All of her empathy goes towards them and not herself,

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Speaker 3: and that is the biggest indicator of the amazing, kind

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Speaker 3: hearted person that she is. And she's the person who

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Speaker 3: raised us to be the strong women we are today.

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Speaker 3: So we're all very, very proud to be her daughters.

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Speaker 2: She's also remained quite optimistic through the whole process. How

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Speaker 2: is she now?

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Speaker 4: That's a hard one because we got to have, well

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Speaker 4: not myself, but the other siblings. They got to have

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Speaker 4: a couple of visits with Mum in the lead up

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Speaker 4: to thirst day, and she had zeroed out in her

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Speaker 4: mind that she would be coming home soon after us,

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Speaker 4: and that we'd be planning her return. She's soon to

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Speaker 4: be a grandmother for a little girl, and she really

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Speaker 4: thought that she would be coming home to welcome the

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Speaker 4: next grandchild into the family. So she was focusing on

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Speaker 4: a lot of things and it was a big fall

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Speaker 4: to come down from. When I got to see her

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Speaker 4: the day after, she was very emotional. I think she

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Speaker 4: was still in a bit of shock. She would be

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Speaker 4: getting a visit today from her consular officers who will

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Speaker 4: be checking how she's doing. I do think her being

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Speaker 4: able to see us before we left was a really

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Speaker 4: good thing for her. We were able to just tell her,

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Speaker 4: you know, we're not going to stop fighting. We're going

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Speaker 4: to have you home. You don't need to become comfortable

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Speaker 4: where you are because you're not going to be staying there.

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Speaker 2: Has she given you an indication of what life is

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Speaker 2: like inside a Japanese prison, That's something that most people

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Speaker 2: listening I think probably haven't even pondered before.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred percent. So it's pretty different to what

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Speaker 4: we may imagine that life in her situation might be. Like,

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Speaker 4: she's in herself for twenty three and a half hours

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Speaker 4: a day if it's a day where it's good weather

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Speaker 4: where you can go out and exercise, or if it's

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Speaker 4: a day where she's scheduled to have her bath, which

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Speaker 4: is twice a week. If it's a public holiday or

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Speaker 4: a weekend, you don't come out of your cell in

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Speaker 4: those times. So I know, in May there's like a

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Speaker 4: whole week of public holidays, so for that week, she

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Speaker 4: would have been no contact with anyone aside from getting

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Speaker 4: her food and a good morning, which isn't usually in English,

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Speaker 4: but it makes her day if she is told good

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Speaker 4: morning and it's in English that she can understand. For her,

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Speaker 4: the most difficult part of her detainment or I hate

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Speaker 4: using the word imprisonment, it just makes me really uncomfortable.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, the most difficult thing for her is the isolation.

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Speaker 4: The conditions where she is right now is better than

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Speaker 4: where she was previously, so she has heating and calling,

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Speaker 4: so her body is not under this constant stress trying

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Speaker 4: to deal with some of the extreme weather conditions that

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Speaker 4: she has. But even though it's physically more comfortable, it's

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Speaker 4: still pretty difficult with the isolation and the loneliness is

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Speaker 4: something that really affects her.

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Speaker 2: During the trial, you actually took the stand, How did

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Speaker 2: you come to that decision and what was that experience?

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Speaker 3: Like that was the most traumatic experience I reckon. I've

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Speaker 3: never been outside of Australia before, so my first time

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Speaker 3: leaving the country, I'm going to a place where they

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Speaker 3: don't even speak English as a first language. And then

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Speaker 3: not only that, but I'm going to a courtroom who

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Speaker 3: testified in my mom trial to hopefully bring her home.

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Speaker 3: The hardest part is not knowing what's actually happening in

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Speaker 3: the moment. So while I'm on the stand, if I'm

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Speaker 3: being asked something. Before it even gets told to me

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Speaker 3: through the translator, it stopped and there's a big discussion

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Speaker 3: about that question, and I'm just sitting there, thinking, what's happening.

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Speaker 3: Are they going to ask me or are we going

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Speaker 3: to go to a different question. I think it was

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Speaker 3: really really hard. But the hardest part above all of

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Speaker 3: that was seeing my mom brought in like a criminal,

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Speaker 3: like in handcuffs with two big, giant guards. And she's

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Speaker 3: this little, tiny woman, and as soon as she saw me,

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Speaker 3: she was just crying. And I wasn't expecting to see

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Speaker 3: her so quickly. I thought maybe i'd get a bit

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Speaker 3: of a warning, but immediately my husband and I just

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Speaker 3: started to cry, and she was, and she was saying

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Speaker 3: I love you and I'm sorry. And in that moment,

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Speaker 3: I realized I had to block my mom out because

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Speaker 3: I literally have to get on the stand and remember

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Speaker 3: everything I have to make clear. Even while giving testimony,

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Speaker 3: I could hear my mum crying and saying sorry when

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Speaker 3: I was talking about how I tried to warn her,

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Speaker 3: and it sounds really harsh, but I had to just

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Speaker 3: block her out for her like purpose. I longed to

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Speaker 3: hear her voice after so long. But I couldn't just

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Speaker 3: be in the moment and hear her. I had to

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Speaker 3: just block her out and do what I was meant

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Speaker 3: to do, and that was probably easily the hardest part.

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Speaker 3: I got actually sick as soon as I got back

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Speaker 3: to the hotel. I got really sick, So it shows

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Speaker 3: that it had like such a physical effect on my body,

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Speaker 3: not just the mental. So yeah, that was pretty rough. Probably,

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Speaker 3: I would say it's the hardest thing I'll ever have

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Speaker 3: to do in my life.

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Speaker 2: Crystal. This fight to bring your mum home is not

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Speaker 2: yet over. Your family now needs to decide whether to

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Speaker 2: appeal that ruling or maybe to seek to have her

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Speaker 2: sent back to Australia as part of a prisoner swap deal.

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Speaker 2: At this stage, has the family made any decisions on

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Speaker 2: what they're going to do next.

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Speaker 4: The decision will come down to what mum decides. They've

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Speaker 4: already acknowledged that she's the victim of a romance scam,

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Speaker 4: so even with that acknowledgment, two different courts have still

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Speaker 4: kept the same decision. It's very hard to try and

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Speaker 4: imagine it going another way, especially against the kind of

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Speaker 4: odds that there are. As a family, we hope that

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Speaker 4: she doesn't appeal. We feel that we can have more

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Speaker 4: faith in our Garvna meant to act on her behalf

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Speaker 4: and to try and have the right discussions to convince

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Speaker 4: the Japanese government that bringing her home is the best

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Speaker 4: thing to do.

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Speaker 2: At this stage, this could be Christmas in Japan, not

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Speaker 2: at home with her family. There's a new baby on

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Speaker 2: the way. How are you guys coping with that? Do

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Speaker 2: you lean on each other for support at times like that?

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Speaker 4: Christmas is like the worst day. It's not a happy

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Speaker 4: time for us because our last good memories with Mum

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Speaker 4: were at Christmas time. Straight after Christmas, she had gone

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Speaker 4: to go see Ash on Boxing Day. It was so

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Speaker 4: important that she got to have that bestive season with

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Speaker 4: all of her kids, So she had the morning with us,

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Speaker 4: and then Boxing Day flew to go see Ash for

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Speaker 4: a few days in Brisbane, and then the night she

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Speaker 4: gets back, she comes to my house to collect her passport.

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Speaker 4: So Christmas is a really horrible time for us because

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Speaker 4: it's the last good family time we got to have

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Speaker 4: with her. And I haven't even looked at finances or

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Speaker 4: anything like that, but in my mind, if she's not

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Speaker 4: home for Christmas. I want to do what I can

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Speaker 4: to go over there. It's not a public holiday for

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Speaker 4: Christmas in Japan, so I'd be able to see her

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Speaker 4: on Christmas Day, and to me, that's the only way

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Speaker 4: it could even feel like Christmas is to see her.

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Speaker 2: Actually, just to wrap up, what's the last thing you

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Speaker 2: want people to know about Donna? And if they're listening

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Speaker 2: to this or they're following her story along, what should

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Speaker 2: we take home and remember about her?

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Speaker 3: I look at a lot of the social media comments

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Speaker 3: made about my mom. I know it's not ideal and

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Speaker 3: people won't understand it, but it gives me a sort

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Speaker 3: of perception of how the public kind of views my

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Speaker 3: mum's situation. And at the end of the day, what

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Speaker 3: I see is a lot of judgment on my mum.

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Speaker 3: But my mum knows that she was naive with believing

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Speaker 3: in this person that she thought she was going to marry.

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Speaker 3: She feels very silly, So no one could be harder

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Speaker 3: on Mum than she is on herself. And in that aspect,

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Speaker 3: she doesn't think that she made the right decision believing

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Speaker 3: in him. And I think what Mum wants is she's

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Speaker 3: always wanted us to raise awareness of her situation, because

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Speaker 3: if she can save others from heading down the route

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Speaker 3: that she's gone down, then that would be a huge

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Speaker 3: success to her.

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Speaker 4: This can happen to maybe not anyone, but it can

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Speaker 4: happen to almost anyone. With how her life was going

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Speaker 4: and she was lonely as well, like she really wanted

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Speaker 4: to find love. She wasn't a stupid person. She's a

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Speaker 4: very intelligent woman. And I guess that just goes to

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Speaker 4: show that this can happen to anybody. And I guess

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Speaker 4: if you have a family member who is doing the

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Speaker 4: online dating and wants to meet someone overseas, if you

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Speaker 4: have someone in your family doing that, then please have

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Speaker 4: them have their love interest come to Australia to see

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Speaker 4: them first. If that's the one thing that we could

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Speaker 4: really really have pushed, and we did try, but I

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Speaker 4: guess understanding just how sort of brainwatched these scammers can

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Speaker 4: have your loved one.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind to

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Speaker 2: us today. The quickie is produced by me Table Strano

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Speaker 2: and Clare Murphy, with audio production by Tea. You Can

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Speaker 2: Saidlow