1 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,559 Speaker 1: You're listening to I'muma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 2: What if I accidentally emailed curse words to all of 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 2: my coworkers and I just don't remember that I sent it, 4 00:00:14,599 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 2: and now I'm gonna get fired. I have a pain 5 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 2: in my leg and it's definitely deep thing from process. 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:24,799 Speaker 2: What if I never really graduated college and this whole 7 00:00:24,799 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 2: time that I thought that I did, I really didn't, 8 00:00:26,799 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: and I've been lying about my degrees. 9 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: For Mama Mia. I'm your host, Ashani Dante. Welcome to 10 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: But Are You Happy? The podcast for people that say 11 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: I just need a quiet weekend every weekend forever. 12 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 3: And I'm doctor Annasata Heronus, a clinical psychologist passionate about 13 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 3: happiness and mental health. Now, there are a lot of 14 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 3: misconceptions about OCD, and today we're setting the record straight. 15 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 4: We'll explore what OCD. 16 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 3: Actually is, how it shows up in real life, and 17 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 3: what evidence based treatments are available. 18 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: Jesa heads up some parts of this episode maybe challenging 19 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: and confronting, especially for those that have lived experiences with OCD, 20 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: So please do listen mindfully. Let's get into it. So 21 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: we love us a good myth busting episode. I know 22 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: previously we have unpacked ADHD to anxiety, but today we 23 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: are unpacking OCD because it's a term that gets thrown 24 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: around in conversations. 25 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:30,119 Speaker 5: Right. 26 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 3: There are so many myths that exist when it comes 27 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 3: to OCD, and I think, you know, media, television shows, movies, 28 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 3: et cetera, have kind of perpetuated certain stereotypes about what 29 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 3: OCD is. You know, often when people think OCD and 30 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 3: don't have a whole lot of knowledge about it, they 31 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 3: might think of the person who, you know, likes to 32 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 3: wash their hands a lot, or likes everything kind of 33 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 3: in order, nice and neat and straight, as we saw 34 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 3: in the video at the start. But really, OCD is 35 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 3: so much more than that. So I think it's important 36 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 3: that we unpack some of the myths that surround it 37 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 3: and also kind of bust this myth that like every 38 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 3: one's a little bit OCD, which is not really true. 39 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is going to be a really 40 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: good one. So I guess what I'm curious about. Let's 41 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: start with unpacking the definition, Like what is OCD? 42 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, so OCD stands for obsessive compulsive disorder and it 43 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 3: is a clinical diagnosis that we can provide. It exists 44 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,519 Speaker 3: in our diagnostic manuals as a clinical disorder that we 45 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 3: can diagnose someone with. Now, as the name of this 46 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 3: disorder suggests, there's two key features to OCD, the obsessions 47 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 3: and the compulsions. So the obsessions are essentially these intrusive 48 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 3: thoughts that are repetitive in nature and generally quite distressing 49 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,239 Speaker 3: for a person. Now, I want to pause here and say, 50 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 3: every single one of us, we all get intrusive thoughts 51 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 3: at particular points in time. Right. We've talked about this 52 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 3: in one of our previous episodes a little bit as well, 53 00:03:04,640 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 3: but I think it's important to bring back up here. 54 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 3: We all get intrusive thoughts. It's a normal natural experience. 55 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 3: The way our brain works, it will sometimes throw in 56 00:03:12,920 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 3: intrusive thoughts and we go, hang on, why did I 57 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 3: just think that? 58 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 4: So this might be. 59 00:03:16,640 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 3: An intrusive thought around. What if I'm crossing the road 60 00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 3: and I suddenly just step in front of a car 61 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 3: and I'm like, well, hang on, I don't want to 62 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 3: step in front of a car. I don't want to die. 63 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 3: You know, that's not my intention here, but my brain 64 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 3: just sort of throws out this intrusive thought. Everyone has them, 65 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 3: and they can be quite scary at times, especially because 66 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 3: they're not congruent to how we actually feel. So when 67 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 3: it comes to OCD, what we find is that people 68 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 3: who develop OCD attribute a lot of meaning to these 69 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 3: intrusive thoughts that they get. So if, for example, they 70 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 3: are standing ready to cross the road and they have 71 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 3: that intrusive thought of what if I just stepped out 72 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 3: in front of a car or a bus, that's very 73 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 3: distressing for them and they start to think, well, if 74 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 3: I thought it, there must be a part of me 75 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 3: that wants that to happen or believes that to be true. 76 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 3: And so we end up with these obsessive thought patterns 77 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 3: that occur around these intrusive thoughts, and then compulsive behaviors 78 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 3: to try and stop that from happening. So we have 79 00:04:18,039 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 3: these two key features. 80 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I think this is it's a really big 81 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: conversation because as you're talking about it, when I think 82 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: about OCD, like I do fall into thinking it's just 83 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: around people obsessed about keeping everything clean. So like I'm 84 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: curious around are there different types of OCD or is 85 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: that kind of just the standard? 86 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 3: OCD presents in so many different ways, And that's why 87 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 3: I like that We've called this a myth busting episode 88 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 3: because there really is that misconception about it being around 89 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 3: cleanliness or order or sort of perfectionistic tendencies, and it's 90 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 3: really so much more than that. So I'll share some 91 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 3: of the kind of common themes that we might see 92 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 3: in OCD. And this is certainly to say it's not 93 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 3: an exhaustive list. So if anyone is listening and has 94 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 3: OCD but you don't relate to these, that's okay. It 95 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 3: doesn't mean that you don't have OCD. It's just that 96 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 3: I'm going to share some of the more common things. 97 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 3: So one of the common themes that we hear about, 98 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 3: and this is the sort of one of the stereotypical ones, 99 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 3: is around contamination. So this is where someone will have 100 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 3: intrusive thoughts that might be about germs, it might be 101 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,239 Speaker 3: about illness, it might be about getting sick in some way, 102 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 3: and these thoughts come into their head repeatedly and without 103 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 3: them wanting those thoughts to come into their head. So 104 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 3: a common theme is around contamination, but we also see 105 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 3: themes around losing control. So these can often be very distressing. 106 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 4: They may be. 107 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 3: About harm, harm to oneself or harm to others. So 108 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,799 Speaker 3: an example might be if I'm in the kitchen cooking 109 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 3: and I'm chopping up some veggies, I might have an 110 00:05:53,280 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 3: intrusive thought around what if I grab this knife and 111 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 3: hurt myself? What if I grab this knife and hurt 112 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 3: someone else in the room. So it's this fear of 113 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 3: losing control and that often associated with some sort of 114 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 3: harm to self or others. Sometimes we actually see this 115 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 3: with parents who are in that perinatal period. So say 116 00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 3: a mum who's got a new baby and has intrusive 117 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 3: thoughts about what if I dropped my baby or what 118 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 3: if I hurt my baby? And these kind of intrusive 119 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 3: and repetitive thoughts become all encompassing, very distressing for them 120 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 3: and then lead to a whole range of compulsions that 121 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 3: someone might engage with to stop themselves from acting out 122 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 3: that feed behavior. 123 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: So with the intrusive thoughts that you've kind of already 124 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: started to unpacking these different types specifically around losing control 125 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 1: and harm. Is there a difference between intrusive thoughts and 126 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 1: anxiety or are they connected? 127 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 4: They're different, but they're connected. 128 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 3: Yes, So intrusive thoughts we're very much talking about a 129 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 3: mental process and a mental process that we don't have 130 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 3: control over. Right, hence the word intrusive. It just happens 131 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 3: to us. We don't choose to think of these things. 132 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 3: Whereas anxiety we're talking about more of an emotional experience. Now, 133 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:08,239 Speaker 3: the two of these can absolutely be tied together because 134 00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 3: the intrusive thoughts people have, particularly when they're around distressing themes, 135 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 3: can often cause a lot of anxiety for someone. 136 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: So what are the other types that are out there 137 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: with OCD? 138 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 3: So there can be other types around. For example, the 139 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 3: obsessions might be about religious themes, so people are doing 140 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 3: things that might be blasphemous, fearing God, So a lot 141 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 3: of intrusive thoughts that are related to religion or spirituality 142 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 3: in some way. In addition, people can also have which 143 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 3: can be quite distressing, unwanted sexual thoughts. Yeah, and I 144 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 3: think it's important to talk about all these because we 145 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 3: want to take off any layers of shame. Right, we 146 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 3: see the hand washing, the stereotypical hand washing, but we 147 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 3: don't see the unwanted sexual thoughts. So these might be intrusive, 148 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 3: distressing thoughts where someone worries that they have sexual thoughts 149 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 3: towards someone else and worries that they might act on those. 150 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 3: We can even actually see this where people have intrusive 151 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 3: thoughts relating to sexuality. So am I straight, am I gay? 152 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 4: Am I by? 153 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 3: Am I attracted to people of the opposite sex which 154 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 3: I didn't think I was, etc. So these thoughts are 155 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 3: often incongruent with their actual internal experiences, but because they 156 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 3: think them, they feel quite distressed by them. 157 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: You know. 158 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 3: Another version of this is people who have intrusive thoughts 159 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 3: relating to children, so around the theme of pedophilia and 160 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 3: being worried that they're a pedophile, and it's absolutely not 161 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 3: that they are. They've just had an intrusive thought that 162 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 3: popped in their head relating to a child. And again, 163 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 3: we all have intrusive thoughts that are not congruent to 164 00:08:44,959 --> 00:08:49,239 Speaker 3: our own experience, but people with OCD fear these and 165 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 3: worry about them. 166 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 1: I think it's so good, and I mean, you're already 167 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: articulated it so beautifully around how there can be layers 168 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:58,879 Speaker 1: of shame that can be attached to this, especially when 169 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: it comes to religion and sex, which can be so personal. 170 00:09:02,199 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 1: So I love that we are shining a light on 171 00:09:04,239 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 1: this conversation. So I know you've uncovered and unpacked the 172 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,439 Speaker 1: O in OCD. But what about the C compulsion you 173 00:09:11,479 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: were mentioning that earlier. 174 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, So the O is that kind of intrusive 175 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 3: part that someone feels they don't have much control over 176 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 3: the C. The compulsion is what a person does to 177 00:09:23,599 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 3: relieve or alleviate the distress and the anxiety that they 178 00:09:27,959 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 3: feel from the obsessive thoughts. So, for example, if someone 179 00:09:32,719 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 3: has obsessive thoughts about contracting a disease or HIV, this 180 00:09:37,199 --> 00:09:39,599 Speaker 3: is a common one that we hear, even though there's 181 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 3: no reason to suggest that they would have contracted it. 182 00:09:42,119 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 3: They might sort of go around their day to day life, 183 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 3: catch the bus, go here and there, have these intrusive 184 00:09:46,479 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 3: thoughts come in, and then they do a lot of 185 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 3: checking behaviors to alleviate the anxiety that they're feeling from 186 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 3: those intrusive thoughts. So they might go to the doctors 187 00:09:55,319 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 3: a lot, they might get lots of tests. I've worked 188 00:09:57,959 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 3: with people who constantly call the HIV hotlines and talk 189 00:10:01,199 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 3: to the people on the phones to get reassurance that 190 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 3: they may not have contracted it. So the compulsions are 191 00:10:07,479 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 3: sort of the behaviors that someone does to help them 192 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 3: deal with the stress that comes from those obsessive thoughts. 193 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 3: So we can have compulsions in themes again, And what 194 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,719 Speaker 3: I want to say is that the compulsion might not 195 00:10:22,719 --> 00:10:27,199 Speaker 3: to us logically match up to what the obsessive thought is. 196 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:31,519 Speaker 3: So I might have an obsessive thought about harming someone 197 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 3: else and then I, you know, tap my leg three times. 198 00:10:36,719 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 3: So it's not that I have an obsessive thought about 199 00:10:39,239 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 3: harming someone else so I put all the knives away 200 00:10:40,959 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 3: in the kitchen. It's I do something that may not 201 00:10:43,199 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 3: to us logically seem like it matches up. Yeah, but 202 00:10:46,839 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 3: it relieves distress for that person. So there can be 203 00:10:50,439 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 3: themes around these compulsive behaviors. So some of them might 204 00:10:54,199 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 3: involve checking, so rituals relating to kind of checking things repeatedly, 205 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 3: as I was talking about sort of that fear of 206 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,239 Speaker 3: contracting an illness, It might it might be that there 207 00:11:05,239 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 3: are rituals relating to repeating certain behaviors. So for example, 208 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 3: if it is something like hand washing, I need to 209 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,519 Speaker 3: wash my hands repeatedly, maybe I need to do it 210 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 3: ten times to feel satisfied. Or for some people there 211 00:11:18,839 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 3: is no number in terms of the repetition it's more 212 00:11:22,599 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 3: of a feeling of it kind of being. And this 213 00:11:25,599 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 3: is what I hear from people, this kind of quote 214 00:11:27,239 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 3: unquote just right, I wash my hands until it feels 215 00:11:30,479 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 3: just right, or I do the compulsion until it. 216 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 4: Feels just right. 217 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,639 Speaker 3: And then one other example I want to provide around 218 00:11:37,719 --> 00:11:41,999 Speaker 3: themes of compulsive behaviors is mental compulsions. 219 00:11:42,319 --> 00:11:44,639 Speaker 4: So compulsion doesn't have. 220 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 3: To necessarily be a behavior that we can see, but 221 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,359 Speaker 3: it can be like a mental ritual. So for example, 222 00:11:51,079 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 3: if someone has an intrusive thought, they then repeat a 223 00:11:54,199 --> 00:11:56,719 Speaker 3: mantra in their head three times, or they then say 224 00:11:56,719 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 3: a prayer, or they then count backwards from ten. It 225 00:11:59,319 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 3: could be anything, but it's a mental process rather than 226 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:04,719 Speaker 3: a physical one. 227 00:12:06,239 --> 00:12:08,959 Speaker 1: So what is the cause of OCD. 228 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 3: It's a good question, and I think, like many things, 229 00:12:12,199 --> 00:12:16,519 Speaker 3: there's a range of different factors that constitute if someone 230 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 3: develops OCD. We know that there is a genetic component 231 00:12:20,199 --> 00:12:25,359 Speaker 3: to it, but we also know that certain life experiences 232 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 3: like trauma might be more likely to result in someone 233 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:34,119 Speaker 3: developing OCD, or at least make sort of a tendency 234 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,599 Speaker 3: towards obsessive compulsive themes worse. And then there are sort 235 00:12:38,599 --> 00:12:42,119 Speaker 3: of certain conditions like, for example, with autism, where we 236 00:12:42,199 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 3: see high rates of OCD as being a common co 237 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 3: occurring diagnosis that we see as partly related to the 238 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 3: way that autism can present with certain patterns of rigidity. 239 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:55,879 Speaker 1: So I was reading something online the other day and 240 00:12:56,319 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: they were talking about r OCD. What's that all about? 241 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,879 Speaker 3: Another version of yeah, yes, which is why it's just 242 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 3: so important to talk about the different ways in which 243 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 3: OCD can manifest. So r OCD refers to relationship OCD. 244 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,359 Speaker 3: So this is where people can have repeated intrusive thoughts 245 00:13:17,479 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 3: about their relationship and the rightness of their relationship. You know, 246 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 3: is this the right relationship for me? Do I feel 247 00:13:26,079 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 3: like I'm well connected to my partner? So they question 248 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 3: the strength of the connection that they might have with 249 00:13:32,239 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 3: their partner and how right the relationship is for them, 250 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 3: And as we said, from a sort of compulsive side, 251 00:13:39,599 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 3: they might engage in certain checking behaviors like testing or 252 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,399 Speaker 3: checking certain parts of the relationship to sort of check 253 00:13:46,439 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 3: the strength of the connection, check how right the relationship 254 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,959 Speaker 3: feels for them. But this can be a really distressing 255 00:13:54,079 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 3: form of OCD and a really confusing form of OCD 256 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,359 Speaker 3: for people and it's a really important one because you know, 257 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,879 Speaker 3: we see people in the clinic who come specifically for ROCD, but. 258 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 4: As opposed to certain other kind. 259 00:14:07,599 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 3: Of forms of OCD where a person might come in 260 00:14:10,359 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 3: thinking that they might have OCD. This is usually one 261 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 3: where people are not actually aware it's OCD. They come 262 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 3: in and they think they're having relationship problems. Yeah, and 263 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 3: actually when we sort of assess and unpack it, we 264 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 3: find you're not really having relationship problems. Actually, you're just 265 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 3: having these intrusive thoughts that are so distressing that have 266 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,999 Speaker 3: developed into an OCD like presentation. So it's really important 267 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:38,519 Speaker 3: to be able to distinguish between relationship difficulties versus ROCD 268 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,239 Speaker 3: so that we can provide the right treatment. 269 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: Wow, that's so interesting, like knowing that OCD can be 270 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: in the context of relationships too. 271 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, yeah, absolutely absolutely. And I'll add to that 272 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 3: talking about sort of people that we might see in 273 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 3: the clinic and say that we mentioned shame before, and 274 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 3: I think shame is a really important point to discuss 275 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 3: here when we're talking about OCD because I think I 276 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 3: think those very stereotypical presentations of OCD about hand washing 277 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 3: and ordering things, you know, people who don't have that 278 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 3: kind of OCD often come into the clinic feeling very 279 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 3: shameful about the intrusive thoughts that they're having and feeling 280 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 3: like that it reflects on them as a person when 281 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 3: it really doesn't. Right, I come back to intrusive thoughts 282 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 3: and not things we have control over. They're just words 283 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 3: that happen in our head. But people can feel immense 284 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 3: amounts of shame because of the types of thoughts that 285 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 3: they're having. Even when they come to talk to a 286 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 3: psychologist about it, which is meant to be a safe 287 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 3: open space, we see the shame come through, and so 288 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 3: that's why I think it was really important that we 289 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 3: did do this myth busting episode to really say OCD 290 00:15:49,239 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 3: comes in all shape, sizes, and forms, and no one 291 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:54,239 Speaker 3: form of OCD is. 292 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,479 Speaker 4: More moral or pure or better than the other. 293 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 3: It's simply the same manifestation but different types of obsessions 294 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 3: and compulsions. 295 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's good that we're shining a light 296 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,639 Speaker 1: on not just the stereotypical type of OCD, but also 297 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: the nuances of it. Okay and Sejah, I want to 298 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,359 Speaker 1: ask you a two prong question. We love our two 299 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: prongs number one, what do you do if you think 300 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: you have OCD? And number two, if you already do 301 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,479 Speaker 1: have OCD, what's the best way to treat it? Yeah? 302 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 3: Okay, So if you're someone and you think you've been 303 00:16:30,359 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 3: listening along and you're questioning whether you might have OCD, 304 00:16:33,359 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 3: first point of contact, I always recommend go to your GP, 305 00:16:36,479 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 3: have a chat with them. You may want to seek 306 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 3: out a referral to a mental health clinician, so perhaps 307 00:16:41,479 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 3: a psychologist or a psychiatrist, depending on the severity of 308 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 3: how much distress anxiety. 309 00:16:48,119 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 4: It's causing you. 310 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 3: And from that point on you can get a clinical 311 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 3: assessment done so that the treating clinician can either provide 312 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 3: a diagnosis of OCD or can rule out or look 313 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 3: for other kinds of conditions that might present similarly to 314 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 3: OCD but are not actually OCD. So it's always good 315 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 3: to get a thorough assessment done so that we can 316 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 3: get an appropriate diagnosis and provide the treatment that's most effective. 317 00:17:14,639 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 3: So that's the kind of initial process I would recommend 318 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 3: people go through. I also want to highlight that there 319 00:17:19,919 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 3: are some great online resources and options. There's a website 320 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 3: called this Way Up and they have a lot of 321 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 3: great self help self paced online programs. If you are 322 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 3: a general member of the public and you want to 323 00:17:34,879 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 3: access them. 324 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 4: There is a fee. 325 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 3: It's about fifty sixty dollars to be able to access 326 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 3: their OCD program. But if you're working with a clinician, 327 00:17:43,399 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 3: the clinician can actually quote unquote prescribe the course. So 328 00:17:47,879 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 3: I've done this with some of my clients. While sort 329 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 3: of I can prescribe the course and then they get 330 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 3: to access it for free. That's a great option in 331 00:17:53,639 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 3: the evidence base, They've been studied and researched and evaluated 332 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,799 Speaker 3: by the university. So highly recommend this way up. 333 00:17:59,919 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: That's great. I haven't heard of them before. So that's 334 00:18:01,679 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: so great we have that resource. So what if you 335 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 1: already have OCD, what's the best way to treat that? 336 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, So, as a psychologist, if I'm working with someone 337 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:15,479 Speaker 3: who has OCD, the gold standard treatment approach that has 338 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 3: the most evidence behind it is something called ERP Exposure 339 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 3: response prevention. 340 00:18:22,399 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: That sounds that sounds very clinical. 341 00:18:25,919 --> 00:18:28,999 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, it's quite. It does sound a bit clinical, 342 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 4: a bit scary. 343 00:18:29,679 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 3: Sometimes when we say to people, okay, exposure response prevention, 344 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 3: they're like, oh, what is that? 345 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:34,799 Speaker 4: Yes, what are you about to do? 346 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: Yeah? 347 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, So essentially what we do this is based on 348 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 3: cognitive behavior therapy, which we've talked about before. So we're 349 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 3: really examining thoughts and behaviors to create change for a person. 350 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 3: So with exposure response prevention, what we are doing is 351 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 3: we are exposing them to the thing that causes them 352 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 3: stress and anxiety. So I'm going to use the stereotypical 353 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 3: cleaning type example. We would expose someone to a situation 354 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 3: where they might have those anxious thoughts about germs and 355 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 3: becoming unwell, and we would then help them to prevent 356 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 3: themselves from engaging in the compulsive behavior, which might be 357 00:19:15,879 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 3: something like hand washing. I'm using a really basic example 358 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 3: here to explain. So we would develop a hierarchy with them. 359 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 3: So we would work on a scale of one to ten. 360 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 3: Let's come up with a whole range of situations that 361 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 3: are going to bring up some stress and anxiety for you, 362 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 3: all the way from a one and two out of 363 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 3: ten low level anxiety up to ten out of ten. 364 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,519 Speaker 3: That's the most stressful situation I could possibly think of 365 00:19:39,639 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 3: in relation to OCD. And so we come up with 366 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 3: a list of different activities or exercises that we can do, 367 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 3: and as clinicians we will often do them with a clients. 368 00:19:50,679 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 3: So we will work up that hierarchy and work to 369 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 3: prevent the person from engaging in the compulsive action. So 370 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,999 Speaker 3: it might be that a level one or two is 371 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,519 Speaker 3: kind of touching this couch and then not washing my hands. 372 00:20:04,879 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 3: It might be that a eight, nine or ten out 373 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 3: of ten is going onto a public bus, touching the 374 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 3: hand rails, then touching, you know, parts of my body 375 00:20:15,679 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 3: and not washing my hands for five hours or something 376 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 3: like that. So, depending on the person's individual circumstances, we 377 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 3: come up with that hierarchy and work through it with them. 378 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: Wow, that's so effective. I mean, I really love how 379 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: individualized and specific it is as well. 380 00:20:29,639 --> 00:20:32,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, and at the core of it, this idea of 381 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 3: exposure is how we work with many people who have 382 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 3: different kinds of anxiety, right, because we see that at 383 00:20:40,679 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 3: the root of OCD is anxiety. When someone has these obsessive, 384 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,479 Speaker 3: intrusive thoughts, they feel stress and distress and anxious types 385 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 3: of feelings, and that's why they engage in the compulsive 386 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 3: behaviors to help themselves feel better in some way. It's 387 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 3: just that over time that becomes unhelpful and maladaptive for them. 388 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 3: So this idea of exposure is not unique to OCE. 389 00:21:04,879 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 3: It's how we would deal with a lot of different 390 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 3: types of presentations of anxiety so that people can sort 391 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,239 Speaker 3: of build that tolerance to the feeling of distress that 392 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 3: comes with those thoughts. 393 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 1: So have you done this with clients as well? 394 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:19,999 Speaker 4: Absolutely, absolutely so. 395 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 3: I've worked with people who have intrusive, distressing thoughts around 396 00:21:24,879 --> 00:21:30,039 Speaker 3: contracting COVID. I've had people who've had distressing thoughts around 397 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 3: their relationship and engage in a lot of checking behaviors, 398 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 3: so maybe constantly asking their partner do you love me? 399 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 3: Do you want a future with me? Are you happy 400 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 3: in this relationship? And so part of the exposure and 401 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 3: response prevention would be about not asking those questions and 402 00:21:45,399 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 3: sitting with the discomfort of not asking those questions. And 403 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 3: we've worked with people who have intrusive thoughts around their 404 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 3: sexual orientation and being able to kind of notice those 405 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 3: thoughts and have some sort of exposure to maybe they're 406 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 3: avoiding looking at people of the same sex. If we 407 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 3: see people who are worried about being gay, for example, 408 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,199 Speaker 3: even though they're not, so they avoid looking at people 409 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 3: of the same sex, so weep. 410 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 4: Part of the hierarchy is. 411 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 3: Okay, you can look at someone of the same sex 412 00:22:12,159 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 3: and if that thought comes up, that's okay. 413 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 4: It's just a thought, it's just words. 414 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 3: In your head, but prevents yourself from engaging in that 415 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 3: compulsive behavior. 416 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 4: To break that cycle. 417 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 5: Bierb bierb bib impowving a serious crisis, BRB having a crisis. 418 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 1: We've reached that time in our episode where we answer 419 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: a question or dilemma from one of you. But are 420 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,519 Speaker 1: you happy listeners, Anastasia, This one's from Sandy. 421 00:22:42,399 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 5: One of my closest friends recently opened up to me 422 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,999 Speaker 5: about having OCD. I knew they had anxiety, but I 423 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 5: didn't realize the extent of it until they shared more 424 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,199 Speaker 5: about the intrusive thoughts and compulsions they deal with daily. 425 00:22:54,879 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 5: I really want to support them, but I don't always 426 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 5: know how, Like do I challenge the compulsions do I 427 00:23:00,639 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 5: just go along with them? I want to be there 428 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,719 Speaker 5: for them, but then I also don't want to our 429 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 5: friendship to revolve around managing their mental health either, If 430 00:23:07,919 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 5: that makes sense. I guess my question is what's actually 431 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 5: helpful when someone you love is dealing with OCD, and 432 00:23:14,159 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 5: how do I show up for them in a way 433 00:23:15,639 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 5: that's supportive but also healthy for both of us. 434 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: Oh, Sandy's a good friend. 435 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:20,759 Speaker 3: I know. 436 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 4: I was just thinking. 437 00:23:21,679 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 3: I was like, I love that Sandy has asked this question, 438 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 3: because they're obviously a very thoughtful person. 439 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:27,199 Speaker 1: Yeah. 440 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 3: My biggest piece of advice here would be when in doubt, 441 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 3: ask your friends. There's not going to be a one 442 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 3: size fits all answer here. I think it's very much 443 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 3: going to be individual and dependent on the kind of 444 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 3: friendship and relationship that Sandy has with their friend. And 445 00:23:42,919 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 3: so I want to say, have this conversation with your friend, 446 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 3: ask them. You know, when you do have these compulsions 447 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 3: come about, do you want me to help you challenge them, 448 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 3: or do you want me to be a kind of 449 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 3: neutral bystander, or do you want me to just sort 450 00:23:55,639 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 3: of provide encouragement to you? You know, how can I 451 00:23:57,679 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 3: best show up for you and how can I help 452 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 3: you given what's happening with the OCD. We want to 453 00:24:03,919 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 3: prevent falling into the role of the therapist. I think 454 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,759 Speaker 3: sometimes friends, you know, ride in with these questions with 455 00:24:10,879 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 3: really good intentions, But I would say, don't feel like 456 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,719 Speaker 3: you have to take the responsibility on of being the 457 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 3: therapist for your friends when she's in these moments of 458 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 3: having these obsessive and compulsive thoughts and behaviors. Sometimes the 459 00:24:25,399 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 3: best way you can be a friend is to just 460 00:24:26,919 --> 00:24:29,999 Speaker 3: be there for someone. I know sometimes when we're working 461 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,999 Speaker 3: with people who have OCD, we do sort of recommend 462 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 3: to family and friends not to enable the compulsions. But 463 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 3: this can come with risks, right risks to the friendship 464 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,479 Speaker 3: as well. So depending on whether we actually are involving 465 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 3: sort of family and close friends in the treatment process, 466 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,199 Speaker 3: don't feel like you need to necessarily challenge. Ask your 467 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,479 Speaker 3: friend what's going to be most helpful for them, and 468 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 3: then also celebrate their wins. You know, if they are 469 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,959 Speaker 3: able to kind of combat certain compulsive behaviors or have 470 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 3: intrusive thoughts and not sort of act out the compulsions, 471 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 3: celebrate those wins with them. I think that's one of 472 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,239 Speaker 3: the best things as a friend you can do to 473 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,199 Speaker 3: help and support someone through this journey. 474 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,519 Speaker 1: You gave some really good solid advice. Good luck, Sandy, 475 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: You've got this, Anastasia, Can you reiterate the main takeaways 476 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 1: from today's episode? 477 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 3: Absolutely, First of all OCD comes in all sorts of 478 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,239 Speaker 3: shapes and sizes, well beyond the stereotypes of what we 479 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 3: see on TV. Second, OCD can be incredibly distressing and 480 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 3: debilitating for individuals who have it. Third, there are a 481 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 3: range of different types of themes that both the obsessions 482 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 3: and the compulsions can take. And Lastly, exposure response prevention 483 00:25:39,399 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 3: or ERP can be a very effective gold standard treatment approach. 484 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: If you have a burnie question for us, there are 485 00:25:45,639 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 1: a few ways to get in touch with us. Links 486 00:25:47,679 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: are in the show notes. 487 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 3: And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't 488 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 3: a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas that we 489 00:25:55,399 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 3: present here should always take into account your personal medical history. 490 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: If you missed our mythbusting episode on ADHD, feel free 491 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: to scroll back through our feed to listen to it. 492 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:10,239 Speaker 1: Next week, we're talking about procrastination, a relatable topic. 493 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 3: The senior producer of But Are You Happy? 494 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 1: Is Tylie Blackman, Executive producer is Naima Brown, and social 495 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: producer is Jemma Donaho. 496 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 3: Sound design and editing by Tina Mattalov. 497 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram and TikTok search but 498 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,719 Speaker 1: Are You Happy? Pot, I'm a Shani Dante. 499 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:32,239 Speaker 3: And I'm doctor Anaesthetia Heronus. The names and stories of 500 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 3: clients discussed have been changed for the purpose of maintaining anonymity. 501 00:26:36,679 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 3: If this conversation brought up any difficult feelings for you, 502 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,479 Speaker 3: we have links for more resources in the show notes 503 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 3: around the topics we discussed today. You can also reach 504 00:26:45,919 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 3: out to organizations like Beyond Blue or Lifeline if you're 505 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 3: wanting more immediate support. 506 00:26:51,480 --> 00:27:01,239 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, See you next time you're listening to 507 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,239 Speaker 1: Amma Mia podcast. 508 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,239 Speaker 3: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and 509 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 3: waters that this podcast is recorded on. Mamma Mia acknowledges 510 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,039 Speaker 3: the traditional owners of the land and waters that this 511 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 3: podcast is recorded on.