Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mom and Mia podcast. Mama Miya
Speaker 1: acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this
Speaker 1: podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 2: If I look at the end of the film now
Speaker 2: and Dad's kind of asking me who I am, and
Speaker 2: he's a bit confused, but he kind of knows I'm someone. Now,
Speaker 2: I'm going to go see Dad in a minute, and
Speaker 2: he has no idea who I am. Last year he
Speaker 2: went from walking around the park one day to basically
Speaker 2: never walking again. It's like two hundred different light bulbs
Speaker 2: of everything you can do and they just start to
Speaker 2: shut off and you go, oh, right, great, those thirty
Speaker 2: light bulbs just went off.
Speaker 1: Now without even realizing it. You'll know the name Otto,
Speaker 1: whether it's actor Miranda Otto or Australian performing royalty Barry Otto,
Speaker 1: or his youngest daughter my guest today director and filmmaker
Speaker 1: Gracie Otto. If you haven't heard of her, you'll definitely
Speaker 1: know her work because of the past five years she's
Speaker 1: been working back to back on projects directing Australian series
Speaker 1: with no more than a three week break. In that
Speaker 1: entire time. He may have watched The Other Guy Deadlocke,
Speaker 1: The Artful Dodger, or the cult phenomenon Heartbreak High. But
Speaker 1: what has recently put Grace's name everywhere is her actor
Speaker 1: award winning film Otto by Otto, a documentary following her
Speaker 1: father as he prepares to premiere a one man show.
Speaker 1: What makes this film heartbreakingly beautiful is that, over the
Speaker 1: years she's spent documenting him, the film that began as
Speaker 1: a tribute to his career became a deeply personal story
Speaker 1: about watching his Alzheimer's diagnosis unfold before her eyes, as
Speaker 1: Graceie fought to capture as much of the man she
Speaker 1: knew before he disappeared. Grace's not only incredibly talented and
Speaker 1: very humble, but also a fascinating person. Though she's only
Speaker 1: read two books in her life, she's deeply immersed in
Speaker 1: art and culture. A woman most comfortable when dressed in
Speaker 1: Nike tracksuits, yet she directs multimillion dollar fashion films. She
Speaker 1: takes cooking classes, and has just started seeing a trainer,
Speaker 1: all in her attempt to learn how to be an
Speaker 1: adult while embracing every work opportunity that comes her way.
Speaker 1: I managed to catch Gracie during her rare three week
Speaker 1: break right before she dies into her next project. And
Speaker 1: knowing her she might not come up for air for
Speaker 1: another five years. Gracie Otto, welcome to No Filter.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having met.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we haven't had you yet, but we will.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well yeah, I'll save my thanks to the end.
Speaker 1: It's quite an achievement to get you here, because you are.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's an exaggeration one of the busiest
Speaker 1: artists in the country in terms of being a director
Speaker 1: and now an award winner. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people wouldn't even realize how much of your work they know.
Speaker 2: I feel like I always yeah, people are like, how
Speaker 2: long you've been in the industry for and really like,
Speaker 2: you know, I've been working since I was like eighteen,
Speaker 2: after film school, making things on it, you know, fashion films,
Speaker 2: like short films.
Speaker 3: Like trying to do everything.
Speaker 2: But obviously in the last few years people are kind
Speaker 2: of more aware of some of the projects that I've done.
Speaker 1: You do span an extraordinary sort of breadth of material, really,
Speaker 1: like You've got, you know, Ladies in Black, or Heartbreak
Speaker 1: High or your new film the docco about your family,
Speaker 1: which I have to say is so extraordinary that I
Speaker 1: felt when I was watching it that my chest was
Speaker 1: being cleaved.
Speaker 3: Heart felt like that making it.
Speaker 1: Yes, and I'm not surprised. But my takeaway from it,
Speaker 1: which was interesting because because of your family obviously, and
Speaker 1: because of your dad Barriotto, who is a proper legiand
Speaker 1: that you have very much the sense of a woman
Speaker 1: who has been very well.
Speaker 3: Loved by her father, Yes, which is rare.
Speaker 1: When did you realize the weight of the surname?
Speaker 2: I guess growing up, you know, people knew, people knew
Speaker 2: Dad is not really you know people at school or
Speaker 2: anything like that, because dad was always a theater actor.
Speaker 2: I think it was like when I was in year
Speaker 2: ten and I got to go on set.
Speaker 3: On a lot of the Rings on my school holidays and.
Speaker 2: I didn't know anything about the book or the movie
Speaker 2: or you know, anything or whatever. It was just like
Speaker 2: happy to like get out of the country and like,
Speaker 2: you know, have some time with Miranda. And I remember
Speaker 2: coming back to school and like your eight kids and
Speaker 2: lots of kids kind of coming up to ask me
Speaker 2: about that, Whereas you know, I didn't really know anything
Speaker 2: about the film at the time. I was just like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: they're like all these like cobbets and yeah, walking around
Speaker 2: and outfits and pointed extra, Yeah, and so I think,
Speaker 2: you know, really people probably knew Miranda more. And then
Speaker 2: you know, we grew up in the theater world, so
Speaker 2: it was like going to opening nights obviously was quite
Speaker 2: normal to see people you know, on TV that we knew.
Speaker 2: You know, you'd see them on a show or go
Speaker 2: to the theater and then they'd you know, be over
Speaker 2: at the house having lunch or whatever, so that that
Speaker 2: was the norm. So yeah, I always, I always was
Speaker 2: aware of that.
Speaker 1: But when you were at school, your interests you were sporty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was very musical and sporty, like I
Speaker 2: played an indoor Australian soccer team and I played New
Speaker 2: South Wales softball. And my whole life, you know, with
Speaker 2: my mum was dedicated to driving from Burgo's High School
Speaker 2: to Narrabi Sports Academy or like up that way down
Speaker 2: back to Bonnie rig for soccer training. And mum was great,
Speaker 2: and I think, you know, I've got such a close
Speaker 2: relationship because she would read. I'm like, you know, I
Speaker 2: read like two books in my life and I don't
Speaker 2: know what are they I read. However, last thing in
Speaker 2: high school she was about the boy who wanted to
Speaker 2: live forever, and I kind of was to live forever.
Speaker 2: And then later I read Howard Hughes's biography. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: kind of life eccentric men, so that was the kind
Speaker 2: of interesting one. But yeah, so mom would tell me
Speaker 2: about like what happened in the book and stuff, and
Speaker 2: I would just watch the movie and then try and
Speaker 2: wing it at school.
Speaker 3: That's kind of how it went.
Speaker 1: Because you would have thought, probably, I mean, your your
Speaker 1: sister is an actress, that you would have been an actress,
Speaker 1: and that was a you tried being an actress.
Speaker 3: I did drama at school.
Speaker 2: I did Stephen Burkoff piece that I remember they had
Speaker 2: banned me from doing because I had to masturbate on stage.
Speaker 2: And that was the only time I actually saw Dad
Speaker 2: down the hallways in the school looking for the principal's office.
Speaker 3: I was like, what is he doing here, because he
Speaker 3: was like, my.
Speaker 2: Daughter wants to perform this, and they actually let me
Speaker 2: do it, which was great, and I was in like
Speaker 2: a group show. But really I had this teacher, missus Hardin,
Speaker 2: who built girls.
Speaker 3: I mean now a lot of the public schools.
Speaker 2: I'm very proud public school girl, even though at the
Speaker 2: time I really want to go to private school so
Speaker 2: I could go on sea trips and go to the
Speaker 2: parties and do all that. But I had a teacher,
Speaker 2: Miss Hardy, who taught Certificates three in film and it
Speaker 2: wasn't part of the HC or UAI or whatever, but
Speaker 2: it was like.
Speaker 3: An extra unit.
Speaker 2: And she taught me, like on VHS, how to you know, edit,
Speaker 2: and we set up cameras and I remember the first
Speaker 2: DA when I was trying to set up my camera
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, it's not working, and she
Speaker 2: was like, it is working. And you know, being a female,
Speaker 2: if you just stay on set like oh this this
Speaker 2: equipment is not working, You're not going to get anywhere.
Speaker 2: And so she was actually like I remember she took
Speaker 2: me to Oxford Street for the first time. She took
Speaker 2: our class of four and I obviously, you know, growing
Speaker 2: up in the industry, its everyone thought I would have,
Speaker 2: you know, but I hadn't. Really, Like the first time
Speaker 2: I went overseas was September twelve, two thousand and one,
Speaker 2: the day after nine eleven. Miranda was doing a film
Speaker 2: in Italy and invited Dad and I and Mom was like,
Speaker 2: there's no Like everyone was like, there's no way you're going.
Speaker 2: Like September eleven, it just happened, and I was like,
Speaker 2: we are going to Italy. And we got on the
Speaker 2: plane on September twelve and went to Italy. And Dad,
Speaker 2: I'd never traveled with him, and he's so naive, like,
Speaker 2: and so I just met all these boys on ICQ
Speaker 2: on the internet because I just wanted to play soccer
Speaker 2: with them, and he would just sit at coffee shops
Speaker 2: and I would just go out like with these boys.
Speaker 2: And I was like fourteen or fifteen I think I
Speaker 2: was at the time, and just hang out or day
Speaker 2: in Italy, and I just from then, you know, I
Speaker 2: was just determined to get overseas and travel and see
Speaker 2: the world. So really, even though people think, you know,
Speaker 2: obviously it came from you know, a privileged upbringing and
Speaker 2: been in the industry and stuff, but our family never
Speaker 2: really were travelers, Like we went down to Cayama on
Speaker 2: holidays and stayed in a motel. You know. We weren't
Speaker 2: those families that kind of went on all those trips
Speaker 2: that I would have loved to do. So I think
Speaker 2: that's why I did so much traveling that as soon
Speaker 2: as I finished high school, So that I could get
Speaker 2: out of there.
Speaker 1: It's an interesting thing in the docco that you see
Speaker 1: the world of your family, and in some ways it's
Speaker 1: what you would expect from a very artistic family, you know,
Speaker 1: the clutter and the art and the eccentricity, and it's glorious.
Speaker 1: The shambling, rambling house. At the other end of that spectrum,
Speaker 1: there's like a real groundedness in it. As a family.
Speaker 2: Dad did mostly theater and like even Belvoir at the time,
Speaker 2: I can't remember what exactly the structured contracts, but everyone
Speaker 2: got paid the same, like the cleaner kind of got
Speaker 2: paid the same as the lead actor or you know,
Speaker 2: so it was a kind of you know, Dad was
Speaker 2: the income on that. Obviously he did you know, a
Speaker 2: few films and like you do ads or whatever. And
Speaker 2: then Mum's always been like, you know, extremely left wing
Speaker 2: and you know, hated the eastern suburbs, hated private stores.
Speaker 2: Still you know, she works with the Department of Education
Speaker 2: now in music, you know, so in a way we definitely,
Speaker 2: you know, we're in a West kind of family, and
Speaker 2: there was a lot of normality in that.
Speaker 1: The normality is very as I said, very grounding for you.
Speaker 1: But then your life has also been extraordinary, starting with,
Speaker 1: as you said, when you were really young, So when
Speaker 1: you had that appetite to go overseas and to start
Speaker 1: living a creative life, and you went to France when
Speaker 1: you were seventeen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've scored. I was seventeen, cause I think I
Speaker 3: just went.
Speaker 2: I just got dressed to go to kindergarten like a
Speaker 2: year early, and mom was like, well, I guess we'll
Speaker 2: just let her go.
Speaker 3: So I finished.
Speaker 2: I actually finished year twelve, I think I was. I
Speaker 2: just turned seventeen or yeah, yeah, and I went straight. Well,
Speaker 2: I played soccer in Greece. I was on a tour
Speaker 2: with the indoor Australian team. And then after that I
Speaker 2: had a French exchange shit at my friend Marine, because
Speaker 2: I remember she came to high school and everyone was like,
Speaker 2: you know, people didn't really want to take her around,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I will take the French girl around.
Speaker 2: And I remember we went out to recess and she
Speaker 2: just lit a cigarette and she was I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I did like really smoke in year eleven and she
Speaker 2: was like, oh, but it's recess and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's recess. And so I went and actually met up
Speaker 2: with her in Paris, and yeah, I had a holiday
Speaker 2: there and then decided to move there with my best
Speaker 2: friend and we moved to Paris when I think, yeah,
Speaker 2: we just turned eighteen, which was probably still one of
Speaker 2: the most amazing experiences in my life.
Speaker 3: I mean we you know, lost a lot of money.
Speaker 2: We were homeless for about I don't know, three weeks nearly,
Speaker 2: just sleeping on random's couches. And it was just that
Speaker 2: thing with that pride where you were like, you're not
Speaker 2: an adult, but you're not a kid, so you kind
Speaker 2: of you know, and it was pre obviously social media,
Speaker 2: like you'd skype your family like once a week or whatever,
Speaker 2: but you never wanted to admit that you'd.
Speaker 3: You know, messed up and like things weren't going well.
Speaker 2: Like all I wanted to do was you know, go
Speaker 2: to film school or you know immerse most and I
Speaker 2: was working at the Scottish pub, earning five years an
Speaker 2: hour and being like an all pair.
Speaker 3: Still like one of the best times in my life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so obviously you learned to speak French then, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was very termed to speak French.
Speaker 2: I did French in high school and for my HSC
Speaker 2: and then we went out one night was with Jean
Speaker 2: Pierre Backri as this French actor and Vick Shdrosso is
Speaker 2: a French soccer player. Randomly we met them like on
Speaker 2: the street. He was like driving past his Lamborghini or something. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we're eighteen.
Speaker 3: I was like blah, blah blah. And we went out
Speaker 3: to Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was trying to say that I played soccer for
Speaker 2: Australia and they were all kind of just laughing at me.
Speaker 2: And it was like something in my life I could
Speaker 2: never like rebut and never chime in with something smarter
Speaker 2: us or sarcastic, and because.
Speaker 3: I didn't have all the language.
Speaker 2: So my friend actually and I just went out every
Speaker 2: night to nightclubs for about probably like ten months, and
Speaker 2: I mean I met some whack people, but it was
Speaker 2: great and I really became quite fluent in French. And
Speaker 2: then I was like, you know, I hadn't studied it
Speaker 2: at school, so I knew how to whip out the
Speaker 2: subjunctive tents or like impress people and stuff. But I
Speaker 2: do speak very fast in French, so people to you,
Speaker 2: is it very hard.
Speaker 1: I lived in Italy for two years and yeah, the speed,
Speaker 1: the boo. I was just I just could never get
Speaker 1: on board with it.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: I went there last years and took me over there,
Speaker 2: which is so kind and it was great, but it
Speaker 2: took me a few days.
Speaker 3: And I was listening to SBS French radio.
Speaker 2: Like walking around here for about a month beforehand, just
Speaker 2: to try and you know, get back in the zone
Speaker 2: because i'd arrive in people like, is it boring?
Speaker 3: I might, I just can't remember how.
Speaker 1: Well you do. You have to develop a different side
Speaker 1: of yourself when you're used to having so many words
Speaker 1: at your disposal and suddenly you don't have them. You
Speaker 1: have to be very you're very gestural, and you suddenly
Speaker 1: become a mime artist, which is appropriate for Paris.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And then at what point did you start to become
Speaker 1: a storyteller?
Speaker 3: I did.
Speaker 2: I write a script with my one of my best
Speaker 2: friends about that experience in Paris, Augusta Miller, and we
Speaker 2: worked on that for a few years.
Speaker 3: And I think it was just I was.
Speaker 2: Like nineteen and you know, I'd made maybe probably I
Speaker 2: was like twenty one, I'd made like four short films,
Speaker 2: and I just couldn't understand why I couldn't get a
Speaker 2: feature off the ground, like now you know, it takes
Speaker 2: like ten years and we're going to all the markets
Speaker 2: in cann and I really, you know, wanted to make
Speaker 2: that film.
Speaker 3: And then I met Michael White there.
Speaker 2: And I guess my experience of the documentary I wasn't
Speaker 2: interested in film school in it really at all, and
Speaker 2: I am fascinated by people and not knowing about topics
Speaker 2: and things because I guess I never went to university.
Speaker 2: So for me, I always see it as like a
Speaker 2: study of something, and I just found Michael this interesting
Speaker 2: character that I want to know more about. And it
Speaker 2: was like always heay to people making documentaries like jumping
Speaker 2: out a plane. If you've got the access and you've
Speaker 2: got a camera, any kind of camera, you can start storytelling.
Speaker 2: Whereas you know, making a film you've got to like
Speaker 2: get a script, you got to get everyone attached, you
Speaker 2: got to raise all the money before it kind of
Speaker 2: starts and you start filming. So for me, it was
Speaker 2: like Michael White was like the next logical step to
Speaker 2: just kind of be creative and yeah, tell a story.
Speaker 2: And so that's how I've kind of then shifted into
Speaker 2: the documentary world.
Speaker 1: You've had a lot of intense spirits, but I just
Speaker 1: want to get this right. You will jump from Deadlock
Speaker 1: to Heartbreak High. You're doing the Zimmerman fashion films and
Speaker 1: also you're working on Auto by Auto at the same time.
Speaker 1: What was that.
Speaker 2: Period like, I think for me, Yeah, coming back to
Speaker 2: Australia after living in LA for like three and a
Speaker 2: half years, and all of a sudden I got Bump
Speaker 2: And it was just when COVID started. I think I'd
Speaker 2: been offered a story that was like a kind of
Speaker 2: a whole thing on SBS or Bump, and I spoke
Speaker 2: to my friend Shanna Murphy and she said, do Bump
Speaker 2: because it's you're going to do the middle block and
Speaker 2: you'll show people that you can just come in and
Speaker 2: direct a block of TV. And then I had this
Speaker 2: film seriously read that was about to go and she
Speaker 2: was like, and you'll be so well oiled because it'll
Speaker 2: be like fast TV and then you'll be like on
Speaker 2: the film and I yeah, finished the film and then
Speaker 2: went straight onto Amazon like Sketch Comedy, straight into Heartbreak High,
Speaker 2: straight into Deadlock, then Yes, straight into Artful Dodger, straight
Speaker 2: back into like Ladies anyway, it went on went on
Speaker 2: for the last five years, but there was this period
Speaker 2: that was Yeah, actually ended up getting COVID in the
Speaker 2: in the four days I had off, but I was
Speaker 2: on heartbreak high. I'm doing the I've done the start
Speaker 2: and I was doing the end of it. I was
Speaker 2: doing the sound mix of my film. I was slipping
Speaker 2: in and not telling anyone while I was in post
Speaker 2: and pre on heartbreak high that I was going to
Speaker 2: do this one day hey shoot for Zimmerman and I
Speaker 2: was trying to interview all the last people for the
Speaker 2: documentary on Zoom and I had COVID as well, So that.
Speaker 3: Was that was a hectic. Yeah, that was a hectic time.
Speaker 1: But when you or doing those jobs at once, like,
Speaker 1: how do you nourish yourself?
Speaker 3: Like I did take care of myself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like very well, Like I think I yeah, I
Speaker 2: think I've just realized in the last few weeks, I
Speaker 2: was like, I kind of really want to have some
Speaker 2: fun again.
Speaker 3: And you know, that's why I was great going not
Speaker 3: to the Actor Awards, I just going.
Speaker 2: To dinner with friends or going to like a few
Speaker 2: events and parties that I haven't been to and just
Speaker 2: getting you know, that's why I kind of really want
Speaker 2: to go away again because that was always my way
Speaker 2: of getting some kind of creating first or like feeling
Speaker 2: an inspiration again.
Speaker 3: So it's been hard. I've been very I'm very tunnel
Speaker 3: vision though.
Speaker 2: So when I work, you know, like I kind of
Speaker 2: work all weekend and you know, work nights, and you know,
Speaker 2: I don't have kids and don't have a partner, so
Speaker 2: it's kind of like I am able to make that
Speaker 2: sacrifice and I love working, like you know, I just yeah,
Speaker 2: I am someone who's kind of always been driven by
Speaker 2: work first, and that makes me, you know, feel good.
Speaker 1: Your link with fashion is one of the things that
Speaker 1: I find so surprising because there's a real groundedness in
Speaker 1: you that I also see in your mum Sue that
Speaker 1: you show really beautifully in the docco. But it's not
Speaker 1: something that you normally associate with fashion because fashion is
Speaker 1: sort of seen as being aloof maybe you know, it's
Speaker 1: never basic and it's always kind of lofty, and yet
Speaker 1: you're so immersed it's become a seamless part of your
Speaker 1: repertoire as well.
Speaker 2: I'm so unfashionable, Like I literally wear black out of
Speaker 2: our shorts and a black t shirt every day and
Speaker 2: shay sneakers are.
Speaker 3: They'll be fashion. I've always been interested.
Speaker 2: In fashion, not as much as Dad, Like Dad would
Speaker 2: spend the whole day like flinting this out for an event,
Speaker 2: but I did.
Speaker 3: I kind of thought about it all when I went.
Speaker 2: Zimmerman took me over last year when they had one
Speaker 2: of Dad's prints and they put it on a dress
Speaker 2: and they kindly, just so awesome invited me to Paris
Speaker 2: for the show and the dress opened their Paris Fashion
Speaker 2: Week collection, And yeah, I remember being really nervous going
Speaker 2: to the event because I was like, well, I know,
Speaker 2: I was really gonna take my photo anyway, but I
Speaker 2: was like sitting in the front row and I was only, God,
Speaker 2: it's Paris Fashion Week. It's like, you know, serious, like
Speaker 2: they take it any more serious.
Speaker 1: It doesn't.
Speaker 2: But then when I thought about all the people that like,
Speaker 2: you know, I like or whatever, it's like fashion really is,
Speaker 2: you know, personal, and it's your own thing because you
Speaker 2: always have that thing of going, oh I should wear that,
Speaker 2: or you know that's kind of what's in at the
Speaker 2: moment or whatever, but really your tastes and fashion and
Speaker 2: they're the people that, like, you know, in the street
Speaker 2: style or whatever. All the people who end up being
Speaker 2: fashion icons are the ones like even the guy kind
Speaker 2: of namely just won the Oscar for Best Costume Design,
Speaker 2: like his outfit on the Red carpet.
Speaker 3: I was like, I don't know who that is, but
Speaker 3: that is the best outfit.
Speaker 2: And then he won for best Costume and I was
Speaker 2: like nice, But like that kind of individual, you know,
Speaker 2: take on something is is I don't know what I
Speaker 2: guess fashion.
Speaker 3: Is, and it's it is a yeah, it's a completely
Speaker 3: different world.
Speaker 2: And I actually was so inspired watching Nikki's immim and
Speaker 2: backstage because you know, because she's such a hard worker,
Speaker 2: like she goes from collection to collection, and she was
Speaker 2: getting the collection ready and it was about to show
Speaker 2: the next day and I was just there kind of
Speaker 2: like doing some bts and stuff and just watching her,
Speaker 2: and she was like, my brain's already onto the next project.
Speaker 2: And I was like, that's so interesting because when I
Speaker 2: direct TV, I'm so immersed in the show I'm doing.
Speaker 2: But once I'm probably two weeks into the shoot, my
Speaker 2: brain is ready creatively, so the next show, like I'm
Speaker 2: kind of like the train, like we're riding, you know,
Speaker 2: we're on the train and it's going and it's like
Speaker 2: we're you know, doing stuff along the way, but everything's
Speaker 2: kind of I've done all the prep and everything's kind
Speaker 2: of in motion.
Speaker 3: And then my other brain's going, well, what else can
Speaker 3: we do? You know?
Speaker 1: What else is that?
Speaker 3: Thinking about that dress? Now?
Speaker 1: This is the dress that you ended up wearing to
Speaker 1: the actors. Yeah, it's got your dad's art on it.
Speaker 1: It's the most spectacular dress.
Speaker 2: It was just a yeah were you coincidence where I'd
Speaker 2: posted a photo dad's one day on Instagram Stories and
Speaker 2: Nikki called me and goes, what is that? And I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, something Dad did and she was like, well, oh,
Speaker 2: it's kind of like really to.
Speaker 3: Do with my new collection.
Speaker 2: And then we started talking and you know, because we
Speaker 2: didn't really hang out much during those COVID I did
Speaker 2: four big shows for them, and there's you know, it's
Speaker 2: such a machine as like, you know, twour people who
Speaker 2: work on it.
Speaker 3: There's people doing content, people doing this.
Speaker 2: I was curely just directing the Runway show and so
Speaker 2: she's so busy and stuff. So I've become really good
Speaker 2: friends with them and they're such a great they're such
Speaker 2: a great family. She's such an amazing you know, the
Speaker 2: whole holes in them family are just incredible what they've done.
Speaker 1: How did you first get involved with them?
Speaker 2: Evolved through a friend who was like who became a
Speaker 2: friend as someone who reached out on Instagram and they
Speaker 2: were producing I think the set design this company called Riser, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it kind of came about and I was, yeah,
Speaker 2: just thinking, oh, that could be really interesting because it
Speaker 2: was such a different working with big set design and
Speaker 2: pieces and five cameras at once, which is very much
Speaker 2: like playing soccer, like how to move all the cameras
Speaker 2: so that they don't see each other, and it's like
Speaker 2: a different you know. I really like different art forms
Speaker 2: like that. That's why I like commercials or like short
Speaker 2: films like you know, fashion, documentary features, TV. Like it's
Speaker 2: all a different kind of race, you know, It's like
Speaker 2: doing athletics. That's how I explained. It's like, you know,
Speaker 2: I like to one hundred meter, you know, but I
Speaker 2: also like fifteen hundred.
Speaker 1: That's not all of my conversation with Graciotto. After this
Speaker 1: quick break, we talk about when Gracie realized she was
Speaker 1: making a different film to the one she thought she
Speaker 1: was making. We'll be right back. Well, also, I would
Speaker 1: imagine it's a funny feeling walking onto a set when
Speaker 1: the set is your house and your home and the
Speaker 1: subject is your dad, and you're kind of opening up
Speaker 1: that aspect of your life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was interesting because I guess on the doco
Speaker 2: I shot, like, I was a bit embarrassed on the
Speaker 2: cinematographer on it because I shot most of the documentary.
Speaker 2: But I had a different relationship with dad obviously than
Speaker 2: a camera person. So a lot of the greatest stuff
Speaker 2: we should I shot or whatever it was on the iPhone,
Speaker 2: you know, So that was an interesting medium as well,
Speaker 2: like watching documentaries and kind of who's done iPhone footage? Well,
Speaker 2: because it's such a like I say to young filmmakers,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter what you shoot on like you know,
Speaker 2: they say that the dad only admits.
Speaker 3: He killed someone once, Like you gotta get round of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's some kind of beauty and that more
Speaker 2: fly on the wall style stuff. I mean, Yeah, it
Speaker 2: was interesting seeing it back at the film Festival and yeah,
Speaker 2: because it's just yeah, it's just kind of like I mean,
Speaker 2: I post a lot of Instagram stories, so people who
Speaker 2: like follow me on Instagram kind of have a bit
Speaker 2: of an insight into, you know, my life with Dad.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it was such a long journey making that film.
Speaker 1: It was the iPhone footage probably was part of the
Speaker 1: reason also that it felt so intimate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and really it was like, I mean a huge testament.
Speaker 2: Like Karen Johnson, my editor, and Cody green wooded to
Speaker 2: Color Donahue, my producers, like they really like if it
Speaker 2: wasn't for them, the film would have never because you know,
Speaker 2: it was about a man. It was about a father
Speaker 2: doing a one man show. That's what I want to do.
Speaker 2: Like I'm not I'm not someone who likes I'm quite
Speaker 2: a vulnerable person. I don't like to ever have a
Speaker 2: cry or tell anyone my feelings or give anyone a hug.
Speaker 2: Everyone knows that on set, like they might an actor
Speaker 2: might get a hug at the end of a shoot
Speaker 2: because I'm like, well done.
Speaker 3: I'm not like a huge, you know, feelings person.
Speaker 2: So it was really like, all of a sudden, I
Speaker 2: was like, wow, this is like a really raw feelings
Speaker 2: and they really you know, and Karen spent months by
Speaker 2: herself really crafting that documentary because like I was busy
Speaker 2: obviously working on TV, and I wanted to do the
Speaker 2: film and I wanted to finish it, and I wanted
Speaker 2: to be part of it and all of that.
Speaker 3: But I also was kind of like.
Speaker 2: Living it as well, so it wasn't like, you know,
Speaker 2: it wasn't like, oh, yeah, I can't wait to go
Speaker 2: over and like shoot some more stuff like because it Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was a weird thing of kind of kind of yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess what mentally, I guess expression I was going
Speaker 2: through at the time. Like I was talking to Mum
Speaker 2: last night about it, because I was thinking, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: there was someone who got up at Sydney Film Vessel
Speaker 2: and said, oh, she should have stoped filming at the
Speaker 2: end when he was sick, and.
Speaker 3: You know whatever.
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, maybe they're going to ask
Speaker 2: me about that tomorrow on the podcast. And we were
Speaker 2: just talking about it when I was driving last night.
Speaker 2: I said, you know, it's just because like, until you
Speaker 2: really go through Alzheimer's as a family, everyone's experience is
Speaker 2: different and it's really hard to work out the miles,
Speaker 2: not the milestones, so that's the worst word to use
Speaker 2: for it, but work out the milestones of where that
Speaker 2: person is, like if I look at the end of
Speaker 2: the film now and Dad's kind of asking me who
Speaker 2: I am, and he's a bit confused, but he kind.
Speaker 3: Of knows I'm someone.
Speaker 2: Now I'm going to go see Dad in a minute,
Speaker 2: and he has no idea who I am.
Speaker 3: And he can barely walk anymore.
Speaker 2: But like you know, when I was in Darwin filming
Speaker 2: last year, he went from walking around the park one
Speaker 2: day to basically never walking again. And you kind of go, oh,
Speaker 2: that happened. That happened really suddenly. You can see that
Speaker 2: that milestone, you know, was like now that his bed
Speaker 2: there's been moved downstairs and he lives in the living
Speaker 2: room at.
Speaker 3: The pink pong table.
Speaker 2: You know, that happened, like yeah, and that happened like overnight,
Speaker 2: whereas there's other stuff where it kind of you know,
Speaker 2: would take years to figure out. You go, oh, he totally,
Speaker 2: he totally gets it. And then you're like, oh, no, yeah,
Speaker 2: he's really not understanding anything. So I think it's such
Speaker 2: a personal different journey.
Speaker 1: As you said, you were starting to make a doc
Speaker 1: about your dad who wanted to do a one man play.
Speaker 1: It was kind of a it was a really gorgeous
Speaker 1: you know collusion of your skills and his skills, and
Speaker 1: this is something we're going to do together. And through
Speaker 1: the course of the film it becomes apparent that this
Speaker 1: is really not going to be possible. At what point
Speaker 1: did you realize that you were telling a very different
Speaker 1: story than you thought you were going to tell.
Speaker 2: I feel that we finished filming probably in twenty nineteen twenty,
Speaker 2: and now I just got really busy on TV for
Speaker 2: like two years, and we took them like I took
Speaker 2: a break from it because it was kind of like, yeah,
Speaker 2: what is like we were originally going to maybe film
Speaker 2: some segments of this monologue at the play he wanted
Speaker 2: to do maybe we could do something like that, and
Speaker 2: I kept trying to, you know, say that to Dad,
Speaker 2: but he wasn't interested in that because he hadn't come
Speaker 2: to the realization he couldn't do it. Like we both
Speaker 2: were kind of coming to that realization. But as I
Speaker 2: say in the film, he would push through and do
Speaker 2: anything for me. And likewise, so was this, you know, Mike,
Speaker 2: we said, we're not very good at feelings. It was
Speaker 2: this awkward kind of thing where it was like, you know,
Speaker 2: this season't going to happen. This play's not going to happen,
Speaker 2: but I do want to still make the film of him,
Speaker 2: and I want him to be, you know, proud that
Speaker 2: he's in it, and I don't want him to think
Speaker 2: it's a failure because it's not what we set out
Speaker 2: to do. And then it was kind of after you know,
Speaker 2: COVID and everything, it was you know, quite obvious that
Speaker 2: then that was never going to happen. And then it
Speaker 2: was like this race to kind of just keep madly
Speaker 2: filming because yeah, so he would not forget who we
Speaker 2: were or something like. For me, it was kind of like,
Speaker 2: let's oh, I just want to like, you know, capture
Speaker 2: everything about him now because it's going, it's going.
Speaker 3: I can see it like just disappearing.
Speaker 1: Was there a distance in you as Graciotto who's making
Speaker 1: a docco versus Graciotto, the daughter who's watching her dad
Speaker 1: in this decline?
Speaker 2: No, Like, I guess there is a distance in it
Speaker 2: because because we knew each other so well, and then
Speaker 2: as it goes on, he doesn't like kind of by
Speaker 2: the end. That was the last thing I shot actually
Speaker 2: was I went and he had an air tag and
Speaker 2: I was I think I was on a heartbreak high
Speaker 2: in Post and I had it on my phone because
Speaker 2: Mum hadn't set it up, and he's the hot Chips
Speaker 2: and I could see where he was because he would
Speaker 2: go out and just walk and get lost. And I
Speaker 2: saw he was in like Broadway, which is so far
Speaker 2: from our house. And I called Mum and she was
Speaker 2: at work, and so I just got in the car
Speaker 2: from Post and was like, I've got to go find him.
Speaker 3: And I had to go.
Speaker 2: And he was just walking out of the street and
Speaker 2: I was like, I remember that when I was like that,
Speaker 2: he was not really going to be sure who I
Speaker 2: am out of context, and I pulled up and said, hey,
Speaker 2: I think you know you should get like a you know,
Speaker 2: AIG guy came.
Speaker 3: Kid in the car, like, I think you kind of should.
Speaker 2: Come in the car with me, and I had a
Speaker 2: bottle of water for him, and he was like kind
Speaker 2: of just yeah, really confused, and we drove home.
Speaker 3: And then that's when I got home and he goes,
Speaker 3: who is everyone?
Speaker 2: And I was like, right, okay, I'm going to show you.
Speaker 2: And i'd been watching a Louis the Row documentary a
Speaker 2: few times. He did a whole series on dementia and Alzheimer's,
Speaker 2: which is quite interesting because it's like I would watch
Speaker 2: it at different points throughout the year and go, oh,
Speaker 2: Dad's like kind of the first early pat and then
Speaker 2: now he's there and there's this amazing woman who's like,
Speaker 2: you just think, God that she's totally fine. She's got
Speaker 2: a kid, she's quite young, and she they get her
Speaker 2: to draw a clock and she just draws a circle
Speaker 2: and puts the number three in the corner of the
Speaker 2: piece of paper.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh wow, you know, and she sadly our you know,
Speaker 2: best friends we grew up with. Their mother got it
Speaker 2: really young and she's you know, she's probably about five
Speaker 2: years more advanced than dad.
Speaker 3: And that's been. So that's been.
Speaker 2: You know, they were at the premiere, which is really
Speaker 2: nice because we went to primary school together and stuff,
Speaker 2: and so yeah, I've been able to kind of I
Speaker 2: had been able to watch what was happening with Janet
Speaker 2: and seeing that that's what you know, Yeah, it's an inevitable,
Speaker 2: terrible decline. That's like, yeah, now you're going to take
Speaker 2: that away from them, you know.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And also it's so multifaceted because they're losing themselves.
Speaker 1: But along the way they're also losing you. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: those moments must just be very confronting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think as I've been away a lot as well,
Speaker 2: like I would fly back on the jobs to see
Speaker 2: down every few weekends. But I think when we were
Speaker 2: shooting Deadlock season two in Darwin, and you know, it
Speaker 2: went from him being able to walk up the stairs
Speaker 2: to his bedroom overnight to like my brother having a
Speaker 2: movie his bed downstairs and kind of going he'll never
Speaker 2: get to the staircase again, and go, I might want
Speaker 2: to go up here.
Speaker 3: That's that's gone now.
Speaker 2: For me, I always say, it's like, you know, it's
Speaker 2: like two hundred different light bulbs of everything you can do,
Speaker 2: and they just start to shut off and you go, oh, right, great,
Speaker 2: those thirty light bulbs just went off now and now
Speaker 2: he's you know, he's not in a wheelchair yet. We
Speaker 2: have nurses who come every day and he walks down
Speaker 2: the road.
Speaker 3: But yeah, he now can't really and he talks to mum.
Speaker 2: He can say a sentence when he wants to, like
Speaker 2: when he wants to tell you to go away, or
Speaker 2: you know, when he's like because you don't.
Speaker 3: Want to invade him, we'll get too close to him anymore.
Speaker 2: You know, he can say something when he wants to,
Speaker 2: but at the moment he's he doesn't really form sentences anymore.
Speaker 2: So that's been like a huge, huge, sad decline in
Speaker 2: the past year since the film's come out.
Speaker 1: I remember reading someone talking about their mum with dementia
Speaker 1: and saying, it's like watching and die a thousand times.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: I think every Christmas, I'm like, oh, every Birthday with him,
Speaker 2: I kind of got I didn't think he'd be here.
Speaker 2: So now we're just like, yeah, mum's really determined to
Speaker 2: keep him at home, which we're all supporting, and she's
Speaker 2: you know, as I've said, she's like a hero.
Speaker 3: She looks after him and.
Speaker 2: Oh, she's incredible, and she's slowly starting to be able
Speaker 2: to like kind of get a bit of her life
Speaker 2: back in that way, Like now you can kind of
Speaker 2: leave him for you know, an hour and come back
Speaker 2: to him, and he sits in his chair all day.
Speaker 2: There's no worry about his safety of like walking out
Speaker 2: the door or anything like that anymore. So, you know,
Speaker 2: but hopefully it mean soon we'll get to a stage
Speaker 2: when you know, he doesn't go to the park anymore.
Speaker 3: And it'd be nice. I think that's the next step.
Speaker 2: When he's officially in the wheelchair, that will then be
Speaker 2: able to wheel him out and you know that will
Speaker 2: be a whole new chapter for him.
Speaker 3: For the moment, we're just trying to keep him walking.
Speaker 1: Gray. See the cats your dad's cats, can you say
Speaker 1: in the doc ow and it's I think it will
Speaker 1: resonate with so many people because you're you said, never
Speaker 1: had a computer, didn't have a mobile phone, so kind
Speaker 1: of lost touch with the with a lot of friends
Speaker 1: and a lot of the outside world. But his greatest
Speaker 1: loves are his cats.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's true.
Speaker 2: And like Boga, I've got a little sticker with Boga
Speaker 2: Bogat goes.
Speaker 3: I'm someone made them for me, so I put them
Speaker 3: on all the camera for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like Boga, like they're animals are amazing.
Speaker 3: Like I know peop always say dogs are amazing. Cats
Speaker 3: are amazing too.
Speaker 2: But they know when someone done well, and they know
Speaker 2: when like in Boga, for someone who's not a service dog,
Speaker 2: she's a cat. She waits for him, She walks with him,
Speaker 2: like when he used to walk around by himself. She
Speaker 2: would walk next to him like she is someone that
Speaker 2: like really protects him and she goes to bed with him.
Speaker 3: It's like her routine every night. And that's you know,
Speaker 3: part of.
Speaker 2: The reason he's not in a home is because Mom
Speaker 2: was like, I just can't take her away from the cats,
Speaker 2: like you can get these kind of like Alzheimer's cats
Speaker 2: that are like a toy that's kind of vibrating and
Speaker 2: what he looked at those, but it's like, no, he
Speaker 2: loves his cat and.
Speaker 1: They know him so well. There he's familiar.
Speaker 2: He still knows he calls them both Bella or Bobo
Speaker 2: at the moment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he still he still knows their name, Mum. And
Speaker 3: it will never forget my brother. He's always like Eddie,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 1: And then when you are navigating, like you said someone
Speaker 1: at the was at the film festival who said you
Speaker 1: should have stopped filming or whatever when your dad got sick,
Speaker 1: how do you discuss as a family Because in the
Speaker 1: Docco and your dad, who's just such a naturally flamboyant
Speaker 1: and extrovert and beautiful, mischievous character, and you have a
Speaker 1: really lovely conversation with him about vanity where you say
Speaker 1: to him, you know, do you think you're vain, and
Speaker 1: he goes, of course, I'm vain. And so later on
Speaker 1: in the doco when we see him post his hip surgery,
Speaker 1: and that's a real moment of fudding cruelty really for
Speaker 1: all of us when we realize, oh fuck, it's this
Speaker 1: is it? How do you as a family, how did
Speaker 1: you decide what to show, what to share.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because that scene, we weren't aware he had
Speaker 2: Alzheimer's then, So when I was shooting him in the
Speaker 2: hospital he went in for an operation. If you go
Speaker 2: in for a hip operation or anything under general anesthetic
Speaker 2: and you have Olzheimers can really rapidly increase it. And
Speaker 2: so it's interesting because all that footage that I'd shot,
Speaker 2: like we weren't aware at the time, and watching any
Speaker 2: of that footage fact that there was that that's you know,
Speaker 2: when you see it in context over the few years,
Speaker 2: you go, oh my god, like it's so obvious. Like
Speaker 2: I see friends of mine, now I know all people's parents,
Speaker 2: and you know, I'm not going to say to them,
Speaker 2: I think your mum's got our Shimber's or your dad,
Speaker 2: but I can kind of see the signs of really
Speaker 2: early on things that people aren't aware of yet because
Speaker 2: I've gone through it. But that scene, actually, I mean,
Speaker 2: I kind of regret, but I get it. There was
Speaker 2: a scene that the network. There was a funny scene
Speaker 2: where he described doing a pooh to me and it
Speaker 2: went on for like six minutes, and it's just hilarious
Speaker 2: because he's like, it's so tragic that he's like sitting
Speaker 2: there and he's like, you know, and he's talking about
Speaker 2: this pood about how it looks like a chocolate gelato
Speaker 2: or whatever, but it is kind of epidome of comedy
Speaker 2: and tragedy and it's this in a way. I was
Speaker 2: just like, when you know, people who had watched that screen,
Speaker 2: agencies and stuff were like worried about that scene. I
Speaker 2: took it out because I was like, I don't want
Speaker 2: anyone to ever think that I would ever do anything
Speaker 2: to hurt Dad or show him like not in the
Speaker 2: best light, but in my true heart, I knew that
Speaker 2: he would find that funny because that's why he was.
Speaker 2: He was still trying to make me laugh and still
Speaker 2: trying to engage in his funny way and not make
Speaker 2: it sad. So it's interesting because I don't think it
Speaker 2: was the scene that people were talking about, but there
Speaker 2: was this whole other section to it that got cut
Speaker 2: out and then I mean that was like that was
Speaker 2: actually in twenty and eighteen that footage happened, so it
Speaker 2: was obviously amplified by the operation. And then he ended
Speaker 2: up kind of mentally, I guess with the Alzheimer's getting
Speaker 2: to that state that he's like in now. But really,
Speaker 2: you know, I stopped filming in twenty twenty I think
Speaker 2: three that last shot of him at the end of
Speaker 2: the film, and then it was kind of going, well,
Speaker 2: we wanted to come out, like I really want to
Speaker 2: finish the film while he was still alive, and then
Speaker 2: it was like this push to kind of go, you know,
Speaker 2: we could keep filming, but like the quality of life
Speaker 2: and the sadness about the disease, like I feel like
Speaker 2: it ended at the right time.
Speaker 3: Like I don't put as much you.
Speaker 2: Know, I put nice videos up because people are so
Speaker 2: interested in Dabt on instagramly like he looks so chic
Speaker 2: with his hat on and he's sitting in his chair.
Speaker 3: But I'm definitely not filming.
Speaker 2: As much of him anymore because it's it kind of
Speaker 2: feels like that's you know, we got to the end
Speaker 2: of the film, and that was you know, how I
Speaker 2: want to remember him.
Speaker 1: When you refer to your dad's sense of humor, that
Speaker 1: is just such an underlying nourishing thing in the film,
Speaker 1: is that it's not obviously someone's decline is sad, but
Speaker 1: we are all going one way or the other. But
Speaker 1: the beauty of his humor and his engagement with you
Speaker 1: is very uplifting in an extremely painful way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, well, thank you. Like trying to think what
Speaker 3: the question was.
Speaker 1: Well, I was it was really more about how you
Speaker 1: discuss as a family, like what bits you're going to
Speaker 1: leave in or what bits you're going to leave out?
Speaker 1: Is it a family discussion or a project for you?
Speaker 2: We definitely sent not the final cut, but what was
Speaker 2: getting close to the final cut I sent to Miranda
Speaker 2: and Mum because I think the moment was a.
Speaker 3: Really hard process.
Speaker 2: Like I think, you know, she didn't really want to
Speaker 2: be part of it because she's so behind the scenes
Speaker 2: person and I think, you know, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: anger that comes with Alzheimer's as well, and she copped
Speaker 2: it for a few years from Dad, and people, you know,
Speaker 2: don't realize that that, like they go. You know, they
Speaker 2: can go through a very angry phase and usually take
Speaker 2: it out on the person who cares about them the most.
Speaker 2: So she had a really tough journey with him and
Speaker 2: then it kind of turned and now like it's so sweet,
Speaker 2: like the only person he care, like, the only person
Speaker 2: he knows is Mum, and he gets so happy to
Speaker 2: see her and she goes comes in and is in
Speaker 2: the kiss and he's like a little you know, he's
Speaker 2: like a little boy, Like he's like, you.
Speaker 3: Know, he'll go Mama, like you know, because he doesn't
Speaker 3: know who any one is, but he knows Mum.
Speaker 2: And so she yeah, it was actually really amazing because
Speaker 2: she I don't ever see him, like a photo of
Speaker 2: her once like that was in a frame of her
Speaker 2: and dad in.
Speaker 3: The bedroom in a bikini or whatever.
Speaker 2: And then I finally got her to find her archive
Speaker 2: of photos, and I think that was and she just
Speaker 2: turned seventy, not that she'd like me to say that,
Speaker 2: but and I was over Easter, like when her birthday is,
Speaker 2: and I was scanning them furiously, like three thousand photos
Speaker 2: on my Easter break. And I think for her it
Speaker 2: was actually this really new love affair with Dad and
Speaker 2: like actually going. You know, people don't reflect on that
Speaker 2: stuff until someone's dead normally, so I think she got
Speaker 2: to do that as well and go back and like
Speaker 2: look at you know, when they met and like their
Speaker 2: whole life together and have this kind of you know,
Speaker 2: understanding of why she's put up.
Speaker 3: You know, she's she's still going with.
Speaker 2: This because you know, a lot of people say to
Speaker 2: her and friends, they're like, you should just put him
Speaker 2: in a home, like it's not fair on you, and
Speaker 2: she's like, this is what I want to do and
Speaker 2: you have to respect it. That's what she wants to
Speaker 2: do in her life moment. She wants to take care
Speaker 2: of him, which is so nice. I'm not as nice
Speaker 2: as that. You know a lot of people Aren'ta's like,
Speaker 2: you know, she just thinks about people before she thinks
Speaker 2: about herself.
Speaker 1: Coming out, we talk about the moment Gracie won the
Speaker 1: Actor Award for Otto by Otto, she finally won Don't
Speaker 1: go Anywhere, and even in the course of your your
Speaker 1: family that you are a family, and yet Miranda has
Speaker 1: a different mother and then you and your brother Eddie
Speaker 1: came along, like your mom is obviously capable of really
Speaker 1: creating a world that brings everybody in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was very like wanting to have her career
Speaker 2: and kind of had two kids and decided she was
Speaker 2: going to be, you know, a full time mum and
Speaker 2: and that's all she's done like most of her life,
Speaker 2: where she could have probably done really great other things,
Speaker 2: but you know, she's very proud of that, and there
Speaker 2: was great for us to have her around.
Speaker 1: Was she she was not at the awards at the.
Speaker 3: Actors No, yeah, no, she wasn't at.
Speaker 1: The Actors and you gave her a beautiful shout out.
Speaker 3: Oh it really we honestly really did not think we
Speaker 3: were going to win.
Speaker 2: And I had thought the night before I thought, oh,
Speaker 2: I only one of those idiots if we win that
Speaker 2: doesn't have a speech.
Speaker 3: But I was like like, I was like, oh, it.
Speaker 2: Was just like I didn't even want to go there
Speaker 2: thinking about writing something because it was like too emotional,
Speaker 2: and then to go to the emotions that like not
Speaker 2: weir and then be like, oh, I just wrote this
Speaker 2: speech in my head. So we were just like down
Speaker 2: in drinks and like my doco team and i'd ha
Speaker 2: like a really great time. And then it was the
Speaker 2: cheer that we heard when they announced they were announcing them.
Speaker 3: That was like really big, and I was like, oh god.
Speaker 2: And then I saw the camera and I know were
Speaker 2: five camera setups, so they only had four cameras and
Speaker 2: so they won't get a right to one every no
Speaker 2: beerneath and then the other cameras went straight around to
Speaker 2: Miranda just before it, and then I went, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: it's happening. And then I just you know, I just said,
Speaker 2: I round up like a football player, because I just
Speaker 2: was like if.
Speaker 3: I stopped, I'll start crying.
Speaker 1: And you start like Miranda a kiss on the way
Speaker 1: up to went.
Speaker 3: And grabbed it. I was looking at it. That thing.
Speaker 2: God. I didn't even like shape the people who presented it,
Speaker 2: but I think I just was like it was. It
Speaker 2: was actually like we were like producers and I was saying,
Speaker 2: we were like, it's an amazing feeling, like it's a
Speaker 2: huge adrenaline rush and I've been nominated before and you
Speaker 2: have the adrenaline rush, and then it's kind of this
Speaker 2: sense of relief because you're like, oh, I didn't win,
Speaker 2: I don't have to get up there.
Speaker 3: It's all good. I can just enjoy my night now.
Speaker 3: But yeah, we were just on a high. The whole night.
Speaker 3: I had a great time up there.
Speaker 1: You enjoyed your night in a different way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I went, We did all the press and stuff,
Speaker 2: and then I was like, oh my god, I need
Speaker 2: a col mum, but I didn't have my phone did
Speaker 2: to go back through and so I facetimed her off
Speaker 2: some random camera person's phone and I.
Speaker 3: Was like whoa and she was like hello Sue speaking.
Speaker 2: I was like you know, and then it was yeah,
Speaker 2: and then we were just like, I mean it was Yeah,
Speaker 2: it took like a week to come down from that high,
Speaker 2: but yeah, we're very.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thrilled.
Speaker 1: There was a video of you beforehand saying autos don't.
Speaker 2: Win well, like I feel like we don't, like we're
Speaker 2: going through dad's career.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, I didn't win for like a
Speaker 3: win for Blissle.
Speaker 2: I think that or yeah it's interesting, So I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: we'll take it.
Speaker 3: We'll take it.
Speaker 1: Because I think it is an extraordinary piece of work.
Speaker 1: You know, where does it sit internationally? Like does it
Speaker 1: get to go to like into other festival competition? Does
Speaker 1: it travel the world?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 1: What happened?
Speaker 2: Really?
Speaker 3: I think we're streamers as well.
Speaker 2: It's like it's standing with the streamer, so once it's
Speaker 2: out on stream, you can't play festivals, which is something
Speaker 2: that hopefully maybe in the future they things change. So
Speaker 2: we got to play at Sydney Film Festival and then
Speaker 2: it was coming out like a few days later. That
Speaker 2: was the kind of league. So really it's kind of finished,
Speaker 2: it's run, and yeah, it's been like that's why it's
Speaker 2: been good to have a few weeks off, a few
Speaker 2: times of reflection because I am very like, you know,
Speaker 2: made the Australian soccer team. Then I gave up, you know,
Speaker 2: like I was kind of like, well maybe I should like,
Speaker 2: maybe that's it. Maybe I'll just do something else. Now
Speaker 2: I'm not direct, but I think it's.
Speaker 3: Now just trying to think about really think about what,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: What project I want to attached to, what I want
Speaker 2: to do next, and yeah, try I think it was just,
Speaker 2: you know, I think years I've been so excited to
Speaker 2: be off jobs and I've been really lucky to have
Speaker 2: taken jobs that ended up being really good shows and
Speaker 2: with really great actors and everything.
Speaker 3: And now I'm just kind of like I have.
Speaker 2: Got a bit of the bug to go overseas again,
Speaker 2: not necessarily to live there, or anything, but just to
Speaker 2: kind of have a little bit of fun.
Speaker 1: Well what would that be? What would the fun be?
Speaker 2: I used to travel by myself all the time, like
Speaker 2: I think I would. I don't think I've been in
Speaker 2: a city longer than like three weeks. I'm very I'm
Speaker 2: not good at like commitment or life I want to
Speaker 2: say relationships, but like I always kind of you know, I
Speaker 2: always dated people lift in other countries, so I could, like,
Speaker 2: you know, I really enjoy my independent space, and I
Speaker 2: actually really enjoy traveling by myself. I always like to
Speaker 2: go somewhere like to a film, veestl or something where
Speaker 2: there's a reason to kind of be be there, even
Speaker 2: if it's for a day. And now I'm just, yeah,
Speaker 2: kind of thinking about going. I don't know, I just
Speaker 2: feel like I really wanted European summer and just to
Speaker 2: kind of again yeah, yeah, and I'm going to Greece,
Speaker 2: I think in June. So I'm finishing on up or
Speaker 2: Dodger and then yeah, I just thought I'll see what
Speaker 2: comes up for the second part of the inn. Every year,
Speaker 2: I've had the whole year or a year and a
Speaker 2: half of just going showing the show and knowing what's
Speaker 2: mapped out, which is really good in a lot of
Speaker 2: ways because you kind of go, oh, I know what
Speaker 2: I'm doing, and I, you know, I get frustrated, like
Speaker 2: if I don't know the plans. So yeah, I'm trying
Speaker 2: to just like yeah, and so I've just been doing
Speaker 2: personal training and cooking lessons and yeah.
Speaker 1: And do you think these like this desire to extend
Speaker 1: yourself personally into yourself rather than just through work, the cooking,
Speaker 1: the training, the time at home, the renovation. Do you
Speaker 1: think it's come about as a result of the film
Speaker 1: the doco that you've processed certain aspects without even realizing
Speaker 1: it about yourself and the way that we live life,
Speaker 1: the way that you're living life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's been a long journey with the
Speaker 2: documentary and I think, yeah, it's kind of like I'm
Speaker 2: ready for the next chapter. Like I know Dad's still
Speaker 2: here at the moment, but it's kind of like it
Speaker 2: does feel like the next chapters coming, which I'm excited
Speaker 2: by and I'm excited he's still here for that next chapter.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's like I kind of get you know,
Speaker 2: like I said that book, I read like I do
Speaker 2: want to live forever and I like I you know,
Speaker 2: I've packed a lot into my life and will continue
Speaker 2: to do so. Like I'm not someone to just sit
Speaker 2: around and do nothing, but you know, I get so
Speaker 2: inspired by people and things and places. I don't know,
Speaker 2: Like I was meant to maybe a big going to
Speaker 2: Asian and the job got canceled, but I was meant
Speaker 2: to be going to go into Beijing, and I was
Speaker 2: excited because I I'll go around, I'll go to Seoul
Speaker 2: and I'll just go. And I nearly booked a ticket
Speaker 2: this week, just before I start work next week, because
Speaker 2: I just thought, I really just need to, i don't know,
Speaker 2: just see things.
Speaker 3: So I'll be trying to do that in Sydney.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, Well that's it sometimes. And also when you're
Speaker 1: working at that intensity, you're the city in which you
Speaker 1: live is as foreign a destination as any other that
Speaker 1: you can encounter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's why I think the skills that I
Speaker 2: haven't learned over the past few years is the hiat exercise.
Speaker 3: Like I think the three things.
Speaker 2: You know, my friend Lara has a cooking business, nutrition business,
Speaker 2: and she does these lessons on FaceTime. I've been cooking, like,
Speaker 2: you know, steak with like source Diane like light lunches, snacks, smoothies,
Speaker 2: and it's been like I'm just like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: how did I not know how to cook a potato?
Speaker 3: Or like, how did I not know how to like
Speaker 3: handle a piece of meat?
Speaker 2: And then my friend Joe joh my god on Instagram
Speaker 2: She's an amazing makeup artist and I paid her to
Speaker 2: teach me to do.
Speaker 3: My own makeup. And I was like those those two things.
Speaker 2: And then the personal trainer of was personal trainer A
Speaker 2: Lane is like just awesome because it's like I've been
Speaker 2: going I was going to the gym in Brisboe last
Speaker 2: year on deadlock and you know, from soccer, like I
Speaker 2: know how to train, but like to specifically train on
Speaker 2: certain things that work for my body. I was just
Speaker 2: like I can't and you, my friend's are like you
Speaker 2: love structure. I can't believe. And I was like those
Speaker 2: three sets of skills because I'm, you know, at thirty seven,
Speaker 2: I live alone. I was like, they've just been brushed.
Speaker 2: They were brushed aside for the last five years and
Speaker 2: now it was all catchy up to me. And I
Speaker 2: was like I really, you know, so in a way,
Speaker 2: I've kind of taken a month for myself, which has
Speaker 2: been nice.
Speaker 1: And what do you think of yourself or I think
Speaker 1: of myself? I don't know. Can you make yourself in
Speaker 1: a different way when you have time around quite entertained
Speaker 1: by my Like I can entertain myself quite well.
Speaker 2: I enjoy I do. I really enjoy in my own company.
Speaker 2: I'm always like, as soon as you know on set,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I love being around two hudred people, and
Speaker 2: then I actually really love all of a sudden being
Speaker 2: around no one. And then as soon as like you know,
Speaker 2: there's too many people trying to contact me or hang
Speaker 2: out or whatever, I get overwhelmed and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I just want everyone to go away. And then after
Speaker 2: twenty four hours when everyone leaves me alone, I'm like,
Speaker 2: where is everyone?
Speaker 3: Where all my friends? I want to hang out? You know.
Speaker 2: So I have this kind of like energy of like
Speaker 2: I'm very present, I think when I'm in the moment,
Speaker 2: and I have you know, I'm really lucky to have
Speaker 2: a lot of friends. And sometimes I feel bad because
Speaker 2: I haven't seen my friends for a year. But it's like,
Speaker 2: I guess, you know, I'm not like a big hangout
Speaker 2: with a big group kind of person.
Speaker 3: But when I see someone it's like intense and it's like, you.
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, it does take a certain sort of friend
Speaker 1: to be a friend to someone who's working at that
Speaker 1: intensity that they just have to trust that after a
Speaker 1: year or two years or whatever, you'll be back.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I you know, I've missed all my friends overseas
Speaker 2: because I really haven't been away for so long. So
Speaker 2: you know, there's people from you know, COVID that I
Speaker 2: just like, like they were my best friends before COVID
Speaker 2: and I was always in La or in Paris, and
Speaker 2: you know, now it's like, what'sapped them every a few
Speaker 2: months and send them a voice message.
Speaker 1: I want to ask you because you worked on Heartbreak High,
Speaker 1: which was you know, groundbreaking in so many ways and
Speaker 1: so popular around the world. But because you've been working
Speaker 1: in the industry for since you were so young, it
Speaker 1: kind of feels like you're older than you are in
Speaker 1: terms of your maturity when you were working with such
Speaker 1: a young cast, a coolsy cast as well.
Speaker 3: They're very under gust yeah, weren't they.
Speaker 1: What did it feel like being with them?
Speaker 2: There's a big one show that I've been on that
Speaker 2: I was like the average age on set, like I
Speaker 2: am always like uptil puble. Now, I've always been like
Speaker 2: the youngest, and especially being the gener I've always loved
Speaker 2: been around older people. It was interesting because it was
Speaker 2: kind of like I used my school diary when I
Speaker 2: pitched on it. We had a train map of all
Speaker 2: the people who hooked up with different guys on the train,
Speaker 2: and so I kind of, you know, i'd use that
Speaker 2: in my pitch deck as a kind of you know,
Speaker 2: that was like two thousand and two or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but they were all like, they're also cool, like they're
Speaker 2: such cool kids. I would say, kids that are like
Speaker 2: older now and stuff. But there was a great you know,
Speaker 2: I think. I think there's a lot of people who
Speaker 2: make mistakes always say oh, I've been in the industry
Speaker 2: much longer than this young girl, and you know, blah
Speaker 2: blah blah, like and I hate all that because I go,
Speaker 2: I can learn so much from a sixteen year old
Speaker 2: when I watch TikTok all the time. Do I keep
Speaker 2: up with a pat as I can from you know,
Speaker 2: a six year old or eighty year old, like I think,
Speaker 2: you know, my school teacher for band in high school
Speaker 2: always said that's why music was so great in the
Speaker 2: band because you made friends vertically, not horizontally like people
Speaker 2: go to school or people going to the industry and
Speaker 2: they go, well, I'm thirty seven, and you know, so
Speaker 2: this is what I know, or like this fifty six
Speaker 2: year old woman knows more because she's been around longer,
Speaker 2: and it's like bullshit, Like this young girl is doing
Speaker 2: amazing things. Is also someone you can learn from. So
Speaker 2: I think for me, like, I just learned so much
Speaker 2: from them, and you know, obviously had a very paternal
Speaker 2: like maternal and maternalness in the way that I can
Speaker 2: be of been very protective of them in the industry
Speaker 2: as well, like you know, because knowing that they were
Speaker 2: going to come out and be quite overnight like well known,
Speaker 2: which happened to them, and you know, the producers and
Speaker 2: have a very great kind of maintaining all that. And
Speaker 2: it was so nice to go back on the second
Speaker 2: season and see that, yes, their lives had completely changed,
Speaker 2: but they hadn't necessarily, you know, they hadn't changed.
Speaker 3: They yeah, had been like a learning curve for them.
Speaker 2: And I don't know, because I've never been as well
Speaker 2: known as they would have been at that age, so
Speaker 2: you know, I think, but I have been out with
Speaker 2: them a few times when like, you know, walking down
Speaker 2: the street and people like when I first came out,
Speaker 2: we're just calling out to them, and I was like,
Speaker 2: that's crazy.
Speaker 3: I can't imagine that.
Speaker 2: I really like, you know, I know that sometimes if
Speaker 2: I go somewhere or walk somewhere, but like, mainly I'm
Speaker 2: pretty you know, I can just live my life, which
Speaker 2: I think, you know, must be hard for people who
Speaker 2: are famous.
Speaker 1: Yes, Oh it's brutal and often becoming famous. You know,
Speaker 1: they say that you're set in stone at the age
Speaker 1: at which you become famous, which explains I think why
Speaker 1: some uber famous Hollywood actors are a little bit atrophied
Speaker 1: when it comes to development.
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, yeah, and I'd be very lucky in that regard.
Speaker 2: And also like directors, like, no one really you know,
Speaker 2: like no one really kind of like wants to follow
Speaker 2: their lives around is you know, it's always about the actors.
Speaker 1: This is a big question, but what have you learned?
Speaker 1: Do you think about life in the context of your
Speaker 1: father's journey and the journey that you've gone on with him.
Speaker 2: I'm very early on like the game of life that
Speaker 2: you only have one shot at life, and you only
Speaker 2: have one time that you're going to be thirty six
Speaker 2: and thirty seven, thirty eight and thirty nine. So I'm
Speaker 2: very like not about wasting time and always up for everything.
Speaker 2: I think Dad's you know, the big takeaway for me
Speaker 2: for Dad is it's like a really boring word. But
Speaker 2: Dad is so kind and I think, you know, you
Speaker 2: can be known for being the most incredible Hollywood actor
Speaker 2: or famous for this, or doing great work or whatever,
Speaker 2: but if you're not a kind person. So I think
Speaker 2: that's been such a big lesson, like hearing, you know,
Speaker 2: people I work on set like a grip might come
Speaker 2: past and go, loved your dad. He was so kind
Speaker 2: to me, you know when I was starting out or
Speaker 2: a runner who's now a producer or you know, all
Speaker 2: those kind of things. I just think it's such a
Speaker 2: nice legacy for such a boring word to be left
Speaker 2: with that he was such a kind man.
Speaker 3: That helps me when sometimes I'll think something in my
Speaker 3: head and go just be kind.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, there's sometimes you have to be unkind
Speaker 1: to be kind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking of myself as a verse it.
Speaker 2: But I think you can always, you know, be like
Speaker 2: strive for more kindness.
Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting because Otto Bioto is very kind. I
Speaker 1: think it's very kind. And I think it's also because,
Speaker 1: as I said earlier, we know the trajectory of life
Speaker 1: and we're all take us except for you, who's going
Speaker 1: to live forever, but that we know I.
Speaker 2: Get killed today.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 2: I do have a psychic sense that I'm trying to
Speaker 2: understand more about now in life. Like if I think
Speaker 2: of someone like, they will text me or they will
Speaker 2: appear in my algorithm even though I haven't looked.
Speaker 3: At their things the name. So I do have it,
Speaker 3: and I do have something.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it happens where my wake up and kind of
Speaker 2: my brain goes, just be careful, and I'll stop at
Speaker 2: the lights and like not run the orange light, and
Speaker 2: a car will run the other light, and I'll be like,
Speaker 2: and I am waiting for the day. Someone just goes
Speaker 2: cut like I'm in the Truman Show, and I go, oh,
Speaker 2: I knew something was going on, Like you know, I'm
Speaker 2: very into like not reincarnation, but like into the other life.
Speaker 2: And one of my best friends who passed away, I
Speaker 2: always kind of thought of her as like we living
Speaker 2: in a game and she's just in the next level
Speaker 2: of the game. And so I do think about that
Speaker 2: quite a bit, and I think maybe I have been
Speaker 2: here before. She Now it sounds a bit woo woo,
Speaker 2: but I feel like I have been here before. But
Speaker 2: I'm not sure as what animal? Do you think it
Speaker 2: was an animal?
Speaker 3: Really? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not a person. You don't think it was
Speaker 1: a person?
Speaker 2: No, I think it was either like a really old
Speaker 2: man or an animal. Yeah, but yeah, I'm kind of
Speaker 2: I'm interested in that side of stuff because I'm not.
Speaker 3: Religious.
Speaker 1: Well that is religious, Yeah, that's probably the definition of religions.
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm not into into heaven and hell and like whatever.
Speaker 2: I'm more just like, where does the spirit go? Like
Speaker 2: when Michael White died, I felt his spirit on my
Speaker 2: back for about a month.
Speaker 3: I felt like I could i him.
Speaker 2: And I went to a crazy dinner party at Cheer
Speaker 2: Coppola's or whatever, and this Disney young actress just started
Speaker 2: they were doing a seance. It was something, and then
Speaker 2: she just turned around and started screaming at me. She goes,
Speaker 2: You've got something on your back, And I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: so I'm very into the spiritual. Yeah, I actually in
Speaker 2: Melbourne recently, stay in the place that had something bad happening.
Speaker 3: Then was when David Lynch started.
Speaker 2: He was such a huge inspiration to me and I
Speaker 2: had I was watching his films, but it was the
Speaker 2: layout of the house and it felt very trapped and
Speaker 2: I think it was actually my body resetting over the
Speaker 2: five years back to like you know, two point zero
Speaker 2: version of me or something was. It was like the
Speaker 2: new software. I had to just go on this like
Speaker 2: I never really get like I don't don't suffer from
Speaker 2: depression or anything like that. I know, I know a
Speaker 2: lot of people do, but like you know, maybe every
Speaker 2: few years, I have like a low moment for like
Speaker 2: you know, two weeks and then I kind of yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like a reset.
Speaker 3: So I did that. I've resetted.
Speaker 1: Reset in the concept of you on a different level
Speaker 1: of the game. Do you think when you watched your
Speaker 1: dad that he's on a different level of the game.
Speaker 2: Like it's like he was a player that got inserted
Speaker 2: in the Rock time. Here's a character from always has
Speaker 2: been eighteen hundreds that like they went, oh, we forgot
Speaker 2: to put him in the game. We'll put him in
Speaker 2: nineteen forty and so yeah, you know, so he's like
Speaker 2: cruising around as this kind of because he is like
Speaker 2: a bit of an old soul.
Speaker 3: Like my grandma died when I was on Ladies in Black.
Speaker 2: And we were all really close to her, and then
Speaker 2: like we didn't tell Dad because like he wouldn't understand,
Speaker 2: but he would just sometimes go, Nanny's here, like a
Speaker 2: week after she died and look to the corner of
Speaker 2: the room. And so he's kind of like a little
Speaker 2: good luck charm. If I'm like, you know, wanting someone
Speaker 2: a text me, I'll go and like rub his head
Speaker 2: and like get good luck from him.
Speaker 1: So and Baz Luhman always found your dad a good
Speaker 1: luck charm.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: I'm just so sweet because I did my first work
Speaker 2: experience luckily with Bads, which he would never get me
Speaker 2: to do again, because I was in high school and
Speaker 2: it was on the Chanelle Ad and it was like
Speaker 2: five hours of watching the understudy, like the person coming
Speaker 2: in for the lighting for Nicole, who was beautiful in
Speaker 2: this like male model, and I was like they should
Speaker 2: just be in it there amazing, and then it was
Speaker 2: like Nicole came in and you were like, how he's
Speaker 2: get it and they were just getting ready to do
Speaker 2: the shot, and I had like in my pocket of
Speaker 2: my school shirt, I had a little flip phone and
Speaker 2: it was off, but the alarm went off as he
Speaker 2: said action and I was like, oh my god, my god,
Speaker 2: my god. I turned it off. But then I was
Speaker 2: back in the day on those phones. The alarm would
Speaker 2: still go off. So they set up again for five minutes,
Speaker 2: and then he someone came over and said, we're going
Speaker 2: to take you to the costume department of THEO. And
Speaker 2: he still wrote me, like, you know what, an amazing man,
Speaker 2: Like he still wrote me a handwritten letter like he's incredible.
Speaker 3: Like even when I interviewed.
Speaker 2: Him, I reached out and you know, and he had
Speaker 2: to cancel it. And it was the Oscars and he
Speaker 2: was like nominated. There was all this stuff going on,
Speaker 2: and I remember when it came through and they were like, look, bads,
Speaker 2: it's going to have to reach schedule. So yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: of course, and they're like, he's so sorry, but he
Speaker 2: could probably do it like four days time, and he was.
Speaker 3: In the minute. He's like, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2: I was in Italy and then I went here and
Speaker 2: we're just about to do the oscars, but you know,
Speaker 2: and I just thought, oh my god, like you've got
Speaker 2: up in the books, Baz, like.
Speaker 3: You know, because he didn't have to do that for me,
Speaker 3: Like it was just so kind.
Speaker 1: Kind there is again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, really boring word to be described by, but.
Speaker 1: A really good one, and all the better for people
Speaker 1: who necessarily don't have it, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: All they could do is dream of it. Yeah, Graciotto.
Speaker 1: I look forward to seeing what you do in the
Speaker 1: rest of your life when you live forever. Thank you
Speaker 1: for your body of work. Yes, oh no, that's all right.
Speaker 1: It's all right if I say it. It's all right
Speaker 1: if I say it to you. Thank you for your
Speaker 1: body of work. And thank you so much for sharing
Speaker 1: your family, your dad, your mom with all of us,
Speaker 1: and for sharing yourself with no filter.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 1: This was one of my favorite conversations with someone whose
Speaker 1: family has had such a big but largely unspoken impact
Speaker 1: on me and my consumption of, you know, arts life
Speaker 1: in Australia. I loved her honesty, I loved her father,
Speaker 1: I loved her family, I loved her mother, I loved
Speaker 1: her sister. I loved all of her and I really
Speaker 1: appreciate her sharing her family legacy with us, and it's
Speaker 1: such a deeply vulnerable time. And if you want to
Speaker 1: watch Otto Biotto, and I recommend it from the bottom
Speaker 1: of my heart, will pop a link in the show notes.
Speaker 1: The executive producer of No Filter is Nama Brown, Senior
Speaker 1: producer is Grace Rufrey. Sound design is by Jacob Brown.
Speaker 1: And I'm your host, kateline Brook. Back with you next week.