Speaker 1: You're listening to A Mother and Me a podcast. Mama
Speaker 1: Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that
Speaker 1: this podcast is recorded on from Mamma Mia. You're listening
Speaker 1: to No Filter, and my name's Mia Freedmen. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of bad news about men around at the moment.
Speaker 1: You may have noticed, not all men, of course, but
Speaker 1: some men, men who are violent towards women, Men like
Speaker 1: Andrew Tate, who are infecting the minds of boys and
Speaker 1: young men with viral poison about women and about what
Speaker 1: it means to be a man. He's gross. I love men.
Speaker 1: I love the man I'm married, and the men I
Speaker 1: gave birth to, and the men I work with, and
Speaker 1: the men who are my friends and my relatives. And
Speaker 1: as the mother of sons, I've always scanned the horizon
Speaker 1: for good men, and there are plenty out there, most
Speaker 1: of them, in fact, They just don't tend to get
Speaker 1: the same kind of attention as the shitty ones, which
Speaker 1: is why today you're going to meet two great men.
Speaker 1: They work together, they're best friends, and they're not hay
Speaker 1: Mish and Andy, although they have been compared to them.
Speaker 1: Jimmy Smith and Nathan Roy are radio hosts and podcasters,
Speaker 1: and they're also a brand called Jimmy and Nath. Jimmy's
Speaker 1: thirty four, Nath is thirty one, and they could not
Speaker 1: be more different in some ways. Jimmy struggles with his
Speaker 1: mental health and Nath is like a Golden retriever in
Speaker 1: human form, always wagging his tail. Jimmy has blown up
Speaker 1: romantic partnerships in the past due to battles with addiction,
Speaker 1: which is something he's working on. Nath is happily married.
Speaker 1: In other ways, though, the ways that really count, they
Speaker 1: are strikingly similar, and this is a conversation about friendship
Speaker 1: and communication and what it looks like to be a
Speaker 1: good man. They're very funny blokes, Jimmy and Nath, and
Speaker 1: they like to make people laugh and they like to
Speaker 1: make each other laugh. So when we sat down together
Speaker 1: in person in the No Filter studio here at Mum
Speaker 1: and MEA, I expected that we would be talking about
Speaker 1: their careers and their successes and matship and the ways
Speaker 1: that they're using their platform and their audience. They have
Speaker 1: half a million followers just on Instagram and they use
Speaker 1: those platforms to discuss some really important things. What I
Speaker 1: didn't expect was some tears and vulnerability, and well it
Speaker 1: was a love story, or in other words, maybe a bromance.
Speaker 1: So in a way, their romance is a romantic comedy.
Speaker 1: A romantic comedy. Did I just invent a new genre?
Speaker 1: But in the spirit of all good romantic comedies, it
Speaker 1: was not love at first sight. Let's do this. Jimmy Nath,
Speaker 1: Jimmy Nath, Hello, tell me how did you meet?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 3: I hated Nathan.
Speaker 2: This is the best story. We love getting asked to
Speaker 2: like a rom com Yeah, like hated me. I mean
Speaker 2: it's probably best to be described from your yes.
Speaker 3: I grew up in gunder Windy in the country, moved
Speaker 3: to Brisbane, lived in America. For me, it came out
Speaker 3: to Brisbane. Never pursued media, but had a lot of
Speaker 3: friends that like, you should do it, should do it.
Speaker 3: One of my closest friends moved to Sydney said just
Speaker 3: come down with me, stay for twelve months, try and
Speaker 3: get into the industry. So I end up at Nova
Speaker 3: on the Street Team. I meet Nath and just instantly
Speaker 3: hated him.
Speaker 1: We were you also on the street team? What is
Speaker 1: the street team? Explained For those who don't know what
Speaker 1: a street team.
Speaker 2: So the street team is every radio show has one,
Speaker 2: and it's when they go out and they're the guys
Speaker 2: who wear the branding of the station and they're handing
Speaker 2: out the Coca Cola or the movie tickets.
Speaker 1: We still exist street teams.
Speaker 3: I think COVID killed it.
Speaker 2: No, they still exist. So when we're at Nova, we
Speaker 2: were called the cast Novas. They've had a rebrand. Really,
Speaker 2: they're now called the Supernovas, which is very clever.
Speaker 1: So you hated him? Why how old were you both?
Speaker 1: First of all, I.
Speaker 2: Would have been twenty one one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would twenty three twenty four. So I met.
Speaker 3: I remember we were in the car park in Sydney
Speaker 3: and Piedmont where the station still is, and I remember
Speaker 3: like people had talked to me about Nathan, and I
Speaker 3: just remember this big guy walking towards him. His hair
Speaker 3: was a lot more blonder then and he was.
Speaker 2: Just like high overcombed Jimmy do I good fining, meet you,
Speaker 2: Welcome to Sydney.
Speaker 3: Just so much energy and they still have and I
Speaker 3: don't have that level of I'm got a very pick
Speaker 3: and choose.
Speaker 2: Yes, I get that many times A.
Speaker 1: Tattook Golden retriever, but without tattoos.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I just didn't have anyone like that in my life,
Speaker 3: that really big energy guy. And I was like, I
Speaker 3: just never gonna like this guy anyway, Warm me down.
Speaker 1: What was your impression?
Speaker 2: My impression of everybody when I first meet them is
Speaker 2: how lovely are they? Which is nice, it is until
Speaker 2: you know, I realized that some people aren't who I
Speaker 2: thought they were straight away.
Speaker 1: It's very golden retreat.
Speaker 2: It's very golden retriever. If you have like a little
Speaker 2: shiny toy in your hand out, we'll run towards you.
Speaker 3: Ah.
Speaker 2: And I mean that was the same with Jim. Every
Speaker 2: time there was a new person that came on, I
Speaker 2: wanted them to feel a part of the family because
Speaker 2: we had we had built as corny as it sounds,
Speaker 2: we had built a little family that we would you know,
Speaker 2: we would work together with and then we'd kind of
Speaker 2: go out with because we were in those years. We
Speaker 2: were you know, we were going out buying a goon
Speaker 2: bag and you know that was it a now fifteen
Speaker 2: dollars an hour. And then same thing to Jim was
Speaker 2: being like, okay, he's a little bit quiet, but I
Speaker 2: was like, I'll break those walls down I will see
Speaker 2: the real hymn. He also had a top knot, which
Speaker 2: I didn't love at the time when I first met him.
Speaker 3: Choice, Yeah, I've had a lot of hairst It was
Speaker 3: the first.
Speaker 2: Bit of feedback I've ever given him was let's lose
Speaker 2: the top knot and then you did shaved it off.
Speaker 3: They went to shaved head. Yeah, I've had shaved head,
Speaker 3: bleached blonde hair, I've had it all.
Speaker 2: That's the one time you ever listened to me twelve
Speaker 2: years ago.
Speaker 1: How did you become mates?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: What are the sign posts of mate chip between two guys.
Speaker 3: The thing that really actually impressed me with Nath was,
Speaker 3: I think because I had an interest in media at
Speaker 3: the time, that was why I moved to Sea. I
Speaker 3: had never really met anyone in my life that had
Speaker 3: the work ethic that Nath did. I was super impressed.
Speaker 3: I was like, this guy constantly shows up, he's finishing
Speaker 3: his law degree, he would do anything. I was like, Wow,
Speaker 3: I was really impressed by that. But I was also
Speaker 3: taken back because in this industry, I feel a lot
Speaker 3: of times people had taken advantage of and Nathan was
Speaker 3: being taken advantage of. He was doing everything at that
Speaker 3: business like for everyone, and I was like, and I
Speaker 3: just remember we having a beer once and I was like,
Speaker 3: what do you want to do though, and he's like,
Speaker 3: I want to be on air, like I want to
Speaker 3: have a show.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I think I first said ah,
Speaker 2: bit of this, bit of that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like all of it, and You're like, I remember you, like,
Speaker 3: I want to do one because you had the community
Speaker 3: show with Coxy. You're done as part of it.
Speaker 2: So my degree was media communications and law, and as
Speaker 2: part of the media communication side, had to go and
Speaker 2: do an internship. And my dream was always to be
Speaker 2: on Getaway. I always want to be on Getaway. I
Speaker 2: used to watch Jewels Laden and I was like that
Speaker 2: guy goes to like Thailand and like swims in pools
Speaker 2: and gets paid. I was like, let me be that.
Speaker 2: And then we had to do an internship. And one
Speaker 2: of my other best friends, my Jimmy. Before Jimmy, he
Speaker 2: had sent me a thing online for nov they were
Speaker 2: looking for an intern like unpaid internship, and I was like,
Speaker 2: how good is this? Went for it didn't get it
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh okay, and then so I
Speaker 2: went I applied for this one two I.
Speaker 1: Didn't get the unpaid intern.
Speaker 2: Did you get it? That didn't get it?
Speaker 1: What a brutal blow, But it is because I mean
Speaker 1: that's how we all started in media.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and then some of the didn't get it me.
Speaker 2: So I was like, well, stuff these I'm going to
Speaker 2: go to two r DJ, which was a Burwood community
Speaker 2: station that only broadcast to the Burwood Library Niche audience.
Speaker 2: This is without a word of a lie. At one
Speaker 2: point we when I did a show there, there was
Speaker 2: only four people listening and three of those people were
Speaker 2: called Betty. Three of the four people will called Betty
Speaker 2: in the library.
Speaker 1: What did that teach you?
Speaker 2: Humility? Yeah, humility being the big one, but also the
Speaker 2: importance of when you do get the foot in the door,
Speaker 2: although it was a you know, a creaky old door
Speaker 2: at the back of like a I think it was
Speaker 2: like a church or something in Burwood, to just do
Speaker 2: everything you can to make that the best product possible,
Speaker 2: because I mean, we were playing CDs. We couldn't go
Speaker 2: to ads at any point, so you just had to
Speaker 2: talk or you had to be okay just loading the cassette.
Speaker 2: And that's where it started.
Speaker 1: So what year was this that you guys started to Become.
Speaker 2: Mates twenty fourteen, fourteen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when we you first on air.
Speaker 2: Together September twenty sixth, twenty fifteen. I know because my
Speaker 2: dad made a mug.
Speaker 1: In every creative partnership, you do fall into roles in
Speaker 1: terms of who does what heavy lifting and what you
Speaker 1: each contribute, and sometimes that's unwritten and just works itself out.
Speaker 1: How did you navigate that at the beginning? Who was
Speaker 1: doing what well?
Speaker 2: I mean to go back to the very very start
Speaker 2: and the naming of the show was, you know, the
Speaker 2: first official decision that we had to make. To answer
Speaker 2: your question me, like the roles that we developed, we
Speaker 2: just fell into them because we came up from two
Speaker 2: different sides of the business. But that first decision, when
Speaker 2: we're at two IDJ, we were sitting there doing this
Speaker 2: drive show with June looking through the window and she
Speaker 2: told us that we were laughing too much, that needed
Speaker 2: to be more serious. That was the first ever air check.
Speaker 3: We got was from June was very serious.
Speaker 2: That Our first ever talk break, and we do have
Speaker 2: it somewhere was to decide what do we call the show?
Speaker 2: Is it called Nathan Jimmy because it had been Nathan
Speaker 2: Coxy or do we call it Jimmy naighth and true
Speaker 2: story in that exact moment, live on the air. Because
Speaker 2: we couldn't go to ads, couldn't do anything. Jimmy downloaded
Speaker 2: one of those love Calculator apps and typed in Jimmy
Speaker 2: and nath and then typed in Nathan. Jimmy Nathan Jimmy
Speaker 2: came up like four percent compatibility Jimmy eighth ninety eight
Speaker 2: point nine percent. So we're like, that's the show. That's
Speaker 2: how we name Wow.
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful ourighin story. Love Calculator. Tell me about
Speaker 1: how your friendship has developed in parallel to your working relationship.
Speaker 3: I mean, at times it's made it easier and at
Speaker 3: times it's made it difficult.
Speaker 1: Start with it easier.
Speaker 3: Easy stuff is we've grown up a lot, you know,
Speaker 3: in the last ten twelve years or whatever with each other.
Speaker 2: How are you both now thirty one?
Speaker 3: I'm thirty four.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's been around ten years years. Happy anniversary,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Where's the case.
Speaker 3: I think there's beauty in having my best friend around
Speaker 3: as much as I do. As I've gotten older, and
Speaker 3: you know, friends have gotten into relationships, marriages, kids, et cetera.
Speaker 3: You know more work responsibilities. I don't see my friends
Speaker 3: as much as I grow older, I know that every
Speaker 3: day I'm still going to see my best mate. You know,
Speaker 3: we have work, and my dad always said to me,
Speaker 3: find a job you love. You'll never work a day
Speaker 3: in your life. That's fucking wrong. There are days where
Speaker 3: this is hard, like hard work.
Speaker 1: For someone who hasn't listened to your show, can you
Speaker 1: describe it how it is now?
Speaker 3: It's escape isn't really joy joy. I think when we
Speaker 3: started it it was just we wanted to make each
Speaker 3: other laugh. That was probably because we had that common
Speaker 3: like stuff that we found funny. And then from that
Speaker 3: we discover that, you know, people have this real sense
Speaker 3: of joy and escape ism and I found out to
Speaker 3: have depression and anxiety. It's something I've had in my
Speaker 3: whole life, but I found that out through the journey
Speaker 3: of radio as well. And part of this show that
Speaker 3: we created, which I love, is that you know, life's
Speaker 3: really hard, like it's hard. We just hope that whether
Speaker 3: people tune in for one show or a podcast a
Speaker 3: week a month, find us on the socials, whatever it
Speaker 3: is just gives them a laugh, smile on their face.
Speaker 2: It's one of the one of the most difficult conversations
Speaker 2: we ever had with the content director was about five
Speaker 2: six years ago, and we sat down with him and
Speaker 2: he was quite influential, and we were very nervous to
Speaker 2: meet this guy. And we sat down with him and
Speaker 2: he said to us, who you're targeting, what's the target
Speaker 2: of Jimmy at who you're going after? Who's your demographic?
Speaker 2: And we replied, everybody. We want everybody. Why I put
Speaker 2: one line in when we can throw a whole net
Speaker 2: in And he goes stupid, who's your demographic? Is it
Speaker 2: blokes like you? You're going after blokes? And we're like, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: we want to go after everybody. We want to provide
Speaker 2: content that can capture eight to eighty sorry about seven
Speaker 2: and eighty one, but you know, we want to throw
Speaker 2: that wide net out.
Speaker 1: Tough stuff.
Speaker 2: But we've never understood it just going after I mean,
Speaker 2: the importance of demographics is there for sales, and I
Speaker 2: get that side, but we've never understood the point in
Speaker 2: creating contents solely, particularly in radio, which is accessible to everybody, solely,
Speaker 2: you know, targeted at one particular area or one particular demographic,
Speaker 2: when you know, we want to be number one overall,
Speaker 2: so we try and balance our content to do so.
Speaker 2: You know, we might talk about sport at one point,
Speaker 2: and then we might you know, talk about gossip or
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift or something to hit that you know, that
Speaker 2: gen z area. There's so many different tweaks that we
Speaker 2: make in our content to ensure that it is accessible
Speaker 2: for everybody. And you have a.
Speaker 1: Podcast as well, bloody hell, stop cutting my grass. What's
Speaker 1: your podcast about?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's called Born Funny where we sit down long
Speaker 3: form chat to funny people deep if we.
Speaker 2: Catch up with that. Born Funny is about us catching
Speaker 2: up with the world's funniest people and figuring out if
Speaker 2: they were born funny or if it's something that they've
Speaker 2: picked up and developed along the way. And it's not
Speaker 2: just stand up comedians or comics or TV stars, it's athletes,
Speaker 2: it's authors.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it be funny to start with.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: Most of the time we asked them at the start
Speaker 2: of the podcast, do you think you were born funny?
Speaker 3: And do their whole life?
Speaker 2: Ninety eight percent of the time they changed their answer
Speaker 2: by the end.
Speaker 1: You mentioned before, Jimmy that you guys shared values. Can
Speaker 1: you tell me what those values are.
Speaker 2: I think work ethic is a big one, and I
Speaker 2: know that was one of the first things jim brought up.
Speaker 2: We met in an industry that we all passionate about
Speaker 2: and something that we wanted to grow in and to
Speaker 2: be a part of for hopefully a long time, and
Speaker 2: we needed that other person to be, you know, a
Speaker 2: cog in allowing us to achieve that, and we didn't
Speaker 2: have that. So from the outset that was the number
Speaker 2: one thing that we shared. Do we like radio, yes,
Speaker 2: Do we want to have a career in this yes?
Speaker 2: Do we work hard? Yes? That was the initial three
Speaker 2: foundations of Jimmy Nah, because I had done shows and
Speaker 2: I worked on the street team with different people before
Speaker 2: who were kind of like had one foot in, one
Speaker 2: foot out. They're like, oh, yeah, this kind of works whatever,
Speaker 2: but also like kind of like writing and doing TV
Speaker 2: stuff and music, which is fine and that's great, but
Speaker 2: I needed somebody who was going to be like me
Speaker 2: because I have no other skills, right, I can only
Speaker 2: really talk talk and be creative. I don't I can't
Speaker 2: play music, I can't act, I can't do any of
Speaker 2: that stuff.
Speaker 1: Did you get your law degree?
Speaker 2: In the end, I did get law degree. It took
Speaker 2: a very long time be lawyer. Oh I'd like to
Speaker 2: think of myself as the lawyer of the gym.
Speaker 3: Nation, which Snaith would stop saying in meetings on the
Speaker 3: in house council for Jimmy days and being like, it's fine.
Speaker 2: I'm still One of my favorite jokes is let me
Speaker 2: check with legal, don't worry.
Speaker 1: Also that I've never been to school, never ever been
Speaker 1: to university.
Speaker 3: There's still people in our business that go like, take
Speaker 3: him seriously, Oh yeah, And I'm like, no.
Speaker 1: When I ask you guys questions, you come back to
Speaker 1: work all the time. But when I'm talking about values,
Speaker 1: work ethic is one, but I'm thinking of other kinds
Speaker 1: of values.
Speaker 3: A big thing Nathan and I on trying to empower
Speaker 3: others and maybe give people who don't have a voice
Speaker 3: the voice. And it's interesting when you say that, you
Speaker 3: ask us those questions and we come back to work.
Speaker 3: And something I've you know, and still trying to unravel
Speaker 3: and do is we've put so much of ourselves into this.
Speaker 3: I don't think Nathan and I know where Jimmy, James Smith,
Speaker 3: nath Nathan Roy begin and where it ends in terms
Speaker 3: of work and life. It's so intertwined, which is difficult.
Speaker 3: And I am somewhat jealous of Nay's relationship with his wife.
Speaker 3: They met on the street team at Nova before Nath
Speaker 3: and I met, and she has been with Nath over
Speaker 3: that journey and being able to see and navigate that.
Speaker 3: And I've made terrible decisions in my own life that
Speaker 3: haven't allowed me to have that, like what depression anxiety,
Speaker 3: not knowing I've had it and knowing I've had it,
Speaker 3: made terrible decisions with drugs and alcohol and trying to
Speaker 3: self medicate that, hurting ex partners, cheating on them, making
Speaker 3: terrible decisions. I wish I hadn't done those things, you know.
Speaker 3: That's put it in a more difficult position now. And
Speaker 3: the partner I have at the moment is amazing, and
Speaker 3: I love Charlotte very much and I'm very hopeful of it.
Speaker 3: And I'm still trying to work through that because there
Speaker 3: are times where I'm doing things or saying things and
Speaker 3: she's even looking at me, going that's a work that
Speaker 3: there needs to be some sort of separation there.
Speaker 1: What do you mean?
Speaker 3: There needs to be a separation between what is the
Speaker 3: Jimmy and a show and what is work and being
Speaker 3: able to switch off and get away from.
Speaker 2: That and create boundaries for something that we've had to
Speaker 2: learn as well.
Speaker 3: There hasn't been boundaries.
Speaker 1: More with Jimmy and nath and me after a short break.
Speaker 1: Where's an example of where there hasn't been boundaries and
Speaker 1: it's come back to bite you.
Speaker 3: I'd say more recently, it's being on the phone and
Speaker 3: still posting on a weekend and checking in on socials,
Speaker 3: looking at an email. Because Nathan and I are friends,
Speaker 3: We'll still want to talk about rugby league or something
Speaker 3: like we're sports fans, but that conversation will bleed back
Speaker 3: to work. And I've had conversations with many psychologists about
Speaker 3: this app Whatever our workplace is or whatever our work is,
Speaker 3: our brain releases chemicals into the brain, right because it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, if you're working onto a job site, once
Speaker 3: you step onto that job site, ain actually flooded with
Speaker 3: the chemicals. It's like we're on today, this is what
Speaker 3: we're at right. So for Nathan and I, yes, there's
Speaker 3: the studio and you could say stepping into there, but
Speaker 3: opening my phone and posting some something on social media
Speaker 3: and opening the jim and eighth. Instagram is also flooding
Speaker 3: my brain with that same chemical when I talk to
Speaker 3: nath and it's about rugby league, but then it transitions
Speaker 3: to he's like, did you see that email? So they
Speaker 3: want us to do this thing. Chemical release into my
Speaker 3: brain and I think I mentioned earlier, I don't have
Speaker 3: as much battery as Naith does, and I will be
Speaker 3: drained and I will come home and I will sit
Speaker 3: next to my partner and I just have nothing to
Speaker 3: offer her, and it breaks my heart.
Speaker 2: I listened to your podcast with doctor Sandra. I can't
Speaker 2: remember her surname, and I wanted to bring this up,
Speaker 2: and Jimmy provided the perfect leading there when she talks about,
Speaker 2: you know, the draining of social battery, and the people
Speaker 2: that drain your social battery are the ones that are
Speaker 2: closest to you. We love each other the bits we
Speaker 2: have best friends, but fuck, we drain each other so much.
Speaker 2: Me particularly because I am you know, apolloder gate constantly
Speaker 2: and I'm you know, I love creating big things and
Speaker 2: my like, you know, people do stupid things when they
Speaker 2: have a few drinks on a weekend. My stupid thing
Speaker 2: when I have a few drinks on a weekend is
Speaker 2: to email some sort of brand and pitch them a
Speaker 2: radio idea.
Speaker 1: Oh, I.
Speaker 2: Hear so like true story on my Honeymoon, on my
Speaker 2: after the wedding on my honeymoon, which is only months ago.
Speaker 2: Jim noses because they did on the show. We were
Speaker 2: in Hamilton Island and I was sitting there with my
Speaker 2: wife and we had, like, you know, a few bottles
Speaker 2: of pino Noa. We're sitting there and I was on
Speaker 2: my phone. She goes, what are you doing? And I
Speaker 2: was just like, I've just and Taylor Swift was in town.
Speaker 2: I was like, I've just come up with a great idea,
Speaker 2: and she goes, are you fucking doing work? She goes,
Speaker 2: show me your phone And I had sent this huge
Speaker 2: message about that long to Suzuki Australia True story after
Speaker 2: a few bottles of red white, and I had pitched
Speaker 2: them when Taylor Swift came to Sydney, because they've got
Speaker 2: the Suzuki Swift, why don't we do a thing called
Speaker 2: the Swift Lifts. And Jimmy and I could start a
Speaker 2: convoy and get pick all these people up in Suzuki
Speaker 2: Swift and drive them out to a Core Stadium and
Speaker 2: watch Taylor Swift and Meg's like, are you fucking kidding?
Speaker 2: We are on our honeymoon, and we did do it
Speaker 2: on the show and Suzuki left me on red for
Speaker 2: a bit, but then they came back, which is nice.
Speaker 2: But you can't turn that off exactly.
Speaker 1: I get that because that's me, right, and I exhaust people.
Speaker 2: I drain people.
Speaker 1: I drained. That's such a good way thinking of it.
Speaker 1: I drain people's batteries. And then conversely, when you've got
Speaker 1: someone that you love who vibrates at a different frequency,
Speaker 1: like Jimmy and like everybody else in my life, that
Speaker 1: drains my battery. That can drain my battery, absolutely, because
Speaker 1: I get fed by being around people who are like me.
Speaker 1: But then also even I get tired of me, I
Speaker 1: drain my own battery.
Speaker 2: I don't know about you, I absolutely do. And that's
Speaker 2: why I mean ginspekes so well about it, for I'm
Speaker 2: so lucky you talk about the reason, you know, while
Speaker 2: we are so close and we have values that we share,
Speaker 2: but because we have values that we don't share, that
Speaker 2: improves me as a human as well. Like what so
Speaker 2: the ability to put up boundaries and step back. Not
Speaker 2: everything needs to be a big thing. You don't need
Speaker 2: to reach out to everybody. You can be okay when
Speaker 2: Suzuki leaves you on Red and not being like the
Speaker 2: show is fucked. No one's into us. No one wants
Speaker 2: to do a Taylor Swift idea because that's I'm either
Speaker 2: all up here or if it doesn't happen, it's doom
Speaker 2: and gloom.
Speaker 1: It's all over, which is where you live a lot
Speaker 1: of the time. Yes, in doom and gloom. And then
Speaker 1: anxiety is different to being up because I also have that.
Speaker 1: That's awful. Anxiety is awful.
Speaker 3: We had a lunch in the calendar last week week
Speaker 3: before and team was due. Jared is here today, Nay,
Speaker 3: everyone in our team and so we pre recorded the
Speaker 3: Friday night show so we could go to this lunch.
Speaker 3: It was just Sony. We love Sony. It was celebrating
Speaker 3: some of the work we've done with their artists. I'm
Speaker 3: going to sit down and have a nice lunch, boozy lunch,
Speaker 3: talk about some ideas. I woke up Friday morning. My
Speaker 3: left hand shakes so badly when I'm anxious and just
Speaker 3: could not get out of bed, could not get out
Speaker 3: of bed, and it's the worst fucking feeling. And it
Speaker 3: was even worse because I'd burnt myself two weeks with
Speaker 3: so much. We'd had so many events, so many things
Speaker 3: with the show, all this extra stuff, and my partner
Speaker 3: wanted to do something for Friday night and I just
Speaker 3: I couldn't. I couldn't do anything. And then it's like,
Speaker 3: why did I do all this other stuff in the
Speaker 3: person that I, you know, with no offense to night,
Speaker 3: Like nath is my best mate, but here's someone I
Speaker 3: love and care about and I want to be better
Speaker 3: for her. I can't get out of bed and go
Speaker 3: to the event. I can't even be around her, Like,
Speaker 3: I can't fucking do anything.
Speaker 2: It's just what do you do?
Speaker 3: Text? So there's a part in the brain that works
Speaker 3: the gratitude thing of like, but you can't just think
Speaker 3: of it because you know, when you're own head and
Speaker 3: there's all the chemicals. So I physically write down the
Speaker 3: things that I'm thankful for, and that you know, starts
Speaker 3: to slow me down. I meditate, try and control my breathing,
Speaker 3: and then unfortunately part of that is just rest. Like
Speaker 3: I can't then try and force myself, and you know,
Speaker 3: I have to explain that to my partner and tell Nathan,
Speaker 3: I'm like, I actually do need some time away from
Speaker 3: everyone because my battery will get recharged from being away
Speaker 3: from everybody, which is difficult as well. So that's, you know,
Speaker 3: also something I'm trying to manage in that I have
Speaker 3: to look at my calendar constantly to be like, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna need to put some space in there where i
Speaker 3: can just slow down to be able not just to
Speaker 3: do the work stuff, but also be able to do
Speaker 3: my life stuff.
Speaker 2: I mean, you talk about, you know, putting boundaries in
Speaker 2: and stuff as well, and I've had to learn this.
Speaker 2: You know, my Jim mentioned her before, but my wife
Speaker 2: Meg is the most incredible human being on the planet,
Speaker 2: hands down, and I will fight anybody who argues. She
Speaker 2: has been you know, with me as long as you know,
Speaker 2: Jim and I have been together, has watched that journey,
Speaker 2: has seen the highs and lows between us commercially as
Speaker 2: a business, seen our success, and she has this incredible
Speaker 2: ability to know, not it sounds cliche, but to put
Speaker 2: things into this wonderful perspective for me as well. So
Speaker 2: when I'm carrying this stress or anxiety or anything from
Speaker 2: work and I come back to her. God, she just
Speaker 2: has this unbelievable ability to you know, hear perfectly, but
Speaker 2: then also kind of justify why I've done something, but
Speaker 2: also explain how I don't have to react in a
Speaker 2: certain way or don't have to do that kind of thing.
Speaker 2: A bit of backstory on her. She has cissy fiber
Speaker 2: and she was the first Australian to summit Matt Kilimanjaro
Speaker 2: in Africa. We see her right a quite literally a
Speaker 2: high achiever. Cissy fibrosis is a illness that you can't see,
Speaker 2: but it operates internally and it impacts one of two
Speaker 2: things or both, either pancreas or the lungs. In makes condition,
Speaker 2: it impacts both the pancreas and the lungs, to the
Speaker 2: point where people describe the way she breathes as like
Speaker 2: breathing through a straw. So when we take a big
Speaker 2: breath in, we can fit our lungs, we can exhale
Speaker 2: as everyone normally does. With her, every time she takes
Speaker 2: a big breath in, it'd be like breathing through a straw.
Speaker 2: That's how much she can fill her lungs every single time,
Speaker 2: and then her pancreas on the other side of things.
Speaker 2: Finds it very difficult to break down food and draw
Speaker 2: nutrients out of that food. So she has you know
Speaker 2: a plethora of different medications and things that she needs
Speaker 2: to do, and her diligence towards that is part and
Speaker 2: parcel in why her health is so incredible. We've done
Speaker 2: so many different things on the show that have allowed
Speaker 2: us to showcase, you know, the work that she does
Speaker 2: in that. Like there was a tricafter which was a
Speaker 2: new drug that came in that quite literally saved a
Speaker 2: lot of people's lives with cissy fibrosis, and she was
Speaker 2: at the forefront of you know, helping her bring that
Speaker 2: to the country and we raise money for it with Kilimajara.
Speaker 2: But you know, doing that kind of stuff on the
Speaker 2: show allows me to intermix my personal life and the
Speaker 2: show in such a beautiful way.
Speaker 1: What does it mean, nath given her condition when you
Speaker 1: guys plan your future together.
Speaker 2: It's a difficult one. It's a very difficult one, and
Speaker 2: it's one that we've kind of, you know, we've had
Speaker 2: to have hard conversations about a lot, to the point
Speaker 2: where you know, I hate thinking anything negatively and stuff.
Speaker 2: As you can probably kind of gather with me. So
Speaker 2: it's something that I've had to be better with and
Speaker 2: be able to sit there and, you know, look at
Speaker 2: her and be realistic about where our life could potentially go.
Speaker 2: And she won't mind me talking about this, but we've
Speaker 2: had tests and stuff done so when we you know,
Speaker 2: we want kids pretty soon. If I carried the CF
Speaker 2: gene and she carried the c F gene, then we
Speaker 2: would have to, for safety reasons, go through IVF. Luckily
Speaker 2: I don't carry the CF gene and she does, which
Speaker 2: means I did it. Guys really good for our mom
Speaker 2: and dad, which means that we can conceive a child
Speaker 2: that doesn't have cisic fibrosis. All the risk is incredibly low.
Speaker 2: But we have to have those conversations.
Speaker 1: Is she able to carry a pregnancy? She is?
Speaker 2: She is, but it needs to happen sooner rather than later.
Speaker 2: So yeah, she wouldn't be able to do it later
Speaker 2: on in life.
Speaker 1: We'll finish up soon. I don't want to get in
Speaker 1: the way that she and.
Speaker 2: She loves this podcast, so we will be having it
Speaker 2: on me.
Speaker 1: That's good. Think of me, Jimmy. It's better than thinking of.
Speaker 2: You, which is what I normally know.
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly after the break. What happens when your best
Speaker 1: mate gets married and there's three of you in this relationship.
Speaker 1: I want to ask about your relationship with Meg because
Speaker 1: the relationship of a best friend and a partner is
Speaker 1: an interesting one. How have you navigated that? What's been
Speaker 1: the kind of milestones in your relationship with her?
Speaker 3: Look, you know, she's an incredible woman, you know, not
Speaker 3: just her battles with Sissi fhibrosis ors, you know, which
Speaker 3: she's done professionally as well. And early in the relationship,
Speaker 3: you know, really trying to be around and be there.
Speaker 3: But as we've gotten older, I actually think it's been
Speaker 3: more healthy to step away from it. Look, it's been difficult,
Speaker 3: I think not. I think. I know as Nathan and
Speaker 3: I again have gotten older, and you know, you put
Speaker 3: so much into your career, but putting stuff into my
Speaker 3: career means also putting things into night and vice versa.
Speaker 3: For him to invest in Jimy and eighth, it also
Speaker 3: means investing in me. And there are times that I
Speaker 3: have not had growth with certain things because I haven't
Speaker 3: need to the things that I have lacked. Nate has
Speaker 3: provided give me an example dealing with depression anxiety in
Speaker 3: those real low moments. Because Nathan that gold matruver and
Speaker 3: he's all up at about and we were living together
Speaker 3: and doing the show, I never had to face those
Speaker 3: real hard low moments because he's always on. So rather
Speaker 3: than sit with my thoughts, sit with my emotions, sit
Speaker 3: in my feelings, I'm like, I could just sit in
Speaker 3: the couch with him, play golf with him, just put
Speaker 3: myself next to him. And also Nathan and I have
Speaker 3: discovered that he has no internal monologue, so I'm always.
Speaker 2: Like a granddad may like I will drive somebody.
Speaker 3: My brain like voice, just no voices in me.
Speaker 2: Just say what I see. Like if we're driving past
Speaker 2: the petrol station, it's like fifty for like diesel. I
Speaker 2: don't even drive a fucking diesel car. I'll go Pasca.
Speaker 2: Diesel's expensive.
Speaker 1: Oh so you've got no filters into brain fall straight out.
Speaker 3: There's no voice in his head talking to him.
Speaker 1: Too, there's no inside your head voice.
Speaker 3: No, because again, like he's constantly talking, he's constantly happy,
Speaker 3: and he always wants to do something like play a game,
Speaker 3: do something, provide an escape. So when yeah, when I
Speaker 3: was you know, struggling, I just was like I just
Speaker 3: need to spend more time with him. I don't have
Speaker 3: to think because I'm listening to his voice. We're physically
Speaker 3: doing something, and then you're exhausted by the time you
Speaker 3: go to bed.
Speaker 1: So you know, you're exhausted by the time you go
Speaker 1: to bed, And do you also find it tiring being
Speaker 1: around him when he's low?
Speaker 3: It was?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. I mean, especially you know, as.
Speaker 1: Much as you enjoy talking to yourself, Yeah, of course.
Speaker 3: Lower. So I'm giving him nothing, so I've got a Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's really exhausting.
Speaker 2: It was, but I didn't see it as exhausting because
Speaker 2: I saw it as trying to help, you know, my
Speaker 2: best friend who needed help. There would be times me
Speaker 2: or we were doing breakfast radio at the time, and
Speaker 2: we would be talking up until one two am, and
Speaker 2: it would just be asked, just talking back and forth.
Speaker 2: And at the infancy of you know, Jimmy, you know,
Speaker 2: starting his journey with mental health and depression and anxiety,
Speaker 2: I was also at the start of my journey with
Speaker 2: that as well, in understanding what it was doing to
Speaker 2: my best friend. And I had no idea, like to
Speaker 2: the point where I'd sit there and go, yeah, maybe
Speaker 2: maybe just like need a sleep more or maybe you
Speaker 2: need it. In my heart, I was like I want to,
Speaker 2: you know, provide this guy with you know, like what
Speaker 2: makes me happy. Maybe let's go get pizza. Did you
Speaker 2: want pizza? It took me many, many years, and you know,
Speaker 2: I now see a psychologist as well, to upskill myself
Speaker 2: in certain different ways. But it took so much learning,
Speaker 2: Like he lied on me for certain things. But I
Speaker 2: have and absolutely still do rely on Jim for so
Speaker 2: many different things. The main thing being because the thing
Speaker 2: that Jim you know, still taught me and something that
Speaker 2: has helped me grow as a person particularly, you know,
Speaker 2: not just in work, but just in life, is to
Speaker 2: stand up for myself a little bit. Like I mean,
Speaker 2: I've always been a hustler, that's true, but I've never
Speaker 2: been a fighter. When it comes to know more awkward
Speaker 2: conversations like asking him for more money, gott want to
Speaker 2: be like yeah, yeah, absolutely and people I've.
Speaker 3: Just seen people be mean to him, just nasty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and take it. You learn to absolutely to bite
Speaker 2: like the dog that you have in your first that
Speaker 2: time drew blood twice, you're gone it again. People learned
Speaker 2: something that that I had to learn and some that
Speaker 2: Jim's taught me, and I feel like I'm slowly getting
Speaker 2: better at it. Yeah, But was just to be okay
Speaker 2: when I'm having a tougher conversation with particularly a superior
Speaker 2: or asking for more money or better conditions or a
Speaker 2: better team which will get one day who pays for parking?
Speaker 2: And to be okay when, as Jim said, if somebody
Speaker 2: you know doesn't shine to me in the way that
Speaker 2: I would hope that they would shine to me. And
Speaker 2: to deal with, you know, negative, I've always been okay
Speaker 2: with negative feedback. But it's always been like when somebody
Speaker 2: has angry yea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jimmy, you talk about your journey with mental health,
Speaker 1: it's usually not something that turns up later in life.
Speaker 1: It's often the seeds are sown way before you realize it.
Speaker 1: Speaking from personal.
Speaker 3: Experience, wasn't it always been there?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Until I was in my thirties that I realized I'd
Speaker 1: had anxiety in my whole life and was diagnosed. How
Speaker 1: were you diagnosed?
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely something I dealt with my entire life. For me, drugs,
Speaker 3: alcohol was self medicating one of the hardest things. I mean,
Speaker 3: I've spoken a lot about this to you and your audience,
Speaker 3: so just try to articulate it well enough. I do
Speaker 3: struggle with talking about it though. I find I have
Speaker 3: to talk about it if I talk about in the
Speaker 3: radio show when I'm in a better place than being
Speaker 3: completely honest with you. I'm not a great place right now.
Speaker 1: Do you want to not talk about it?
Speaker 3: I like to talk about it, and I've been trying
Speaker 3: to talk about it more when I'm not in a
Speaker 3: good place because I feel like i can better explain
Speaker 3: how I'm feeling and a lot of people don't do that.
Speaker 3: And I've spoken about it because unfortunately, those people that
Speaker 3: have depression anxiety take their own life. There's over eight
Speaker 3: people a day that take their own life in Australia,
Speaker 3: and unfortunately that I get to talk about it because
Speaker 3: they take their life and it's someone, yeah, their family
Speaker 3: and friend that talks about it. For me, a lot
Speaker 3: of the drugs and alcohol was self sabotaging. Life was
Speaker 3: good and I felt really shit, so I was like,
Speaker 3: I need to go do something shit because when life
Speaker 3: isn't great and I would have these down moments, I
Speaker 3: was okay with it in a way because I'm like,
Speaker 3: I'm not where I want to be professionally on my
Speaker 3: relationship isn't great. There's a reason as to why I'm
Speaker 3: feeling like this. So when I'm up and things are
Speaker 3: flying and I feel really shitty, I'm like, gotta do
Speaker 3: something shitty because this is just not sitting well with me.
Speaker 1: That's such a revelation, and I imagine it's almost like
Speaker 1: that lifestyle manifestation of self harm where it's like you
Speaker 1: want your outsides to match your insides.
Speaker 3: Yep, so that you had been something I'd been doing
Speaker 3: a long time exercise as well. When we're doing the
Speaker 3: breakfast radio show. I'd get up at three am every morning,
Speaker 3: go to the gym first, but you know, I'd also
Speaker 3: be out on a weekend bendering till you know, six, seven,
Speaker 3: eight nine in the morning.
Speaker 2: Used to run yourself into the ground, just yeah, bern like.
Speaker 3: I do F forty five after the show. Then I'd
Speaker 3: do Pilartis in the afternoon.
Speaker 1: Like I was just looking for those endorphins, Yes.
Speaker 3: Just chasing the high. That was what the you know,
Speaker 3: destroying myself and then I needed to try and get
Speaker 3: the endorphins back. Nathan and I were having conversations, you
Speaker 3: know around the days are you okay, day November, all
Speaker 3: these different things. I have the November taty on my
Speaker 3: finger because it was a November conversation I was having
Speaker 3: where we're sitting there, were chatting to someone and I
Speaker 3: was like, I know what it was, just clicked them
Speaker 3: with that. No, that's me, that's actually me. I am
Speaker 3: depressed and I'm very anxious. So went to my GP,
Speaker 3: spoke to him. He put me on a mental health plan,
Speaker 3: got to see a psychologist. How old were you at
Speaker 3: this stage, oh, in Hobot's a twenty six seven.
Speaker 2: Remember when we had that, we had this conversation. I mean,
Speaker 2: I know we've already spoken about it when we'd have
Speaker 2: those you know, hour long conversations at home because I
Speaker 2: didn't really know what he needed to hear. And it
Speaker 2: got to the point where we were having these conversations
Speaker 2: so frequently, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth,
Speaker 2: where he's like, you know, maybe I need to sleep more,
Speaker 2: maybe I need to, you know, go out more. Maybe
Speaker 2: I need to jerk off more, maybe I need to
Speaker 2: all these different things that we were trying to figure out.
Speaker 2: And it got to the point where I said to you,
Speaker 2: I was like, mate, I think you need to talk
Speaker 2: to somebody who knows more. And that hurt me to say,
Speaker 2: because I was like, I can't help him. I can't
Speaker 2: help my best mate. I can't provide him what he needs.
Speaker 1: But why would you ever think that you could?
Speaker 2: Because I was so naive. I was so naive, and.
Speaker 1: So neither of you had, like you did have experience
Speaker 1: of in your family with your mates, no one that
Speaker 1: knew going to therapy. It wasn't something that was even
Speaker 1: on the radar with you guys.
Speaker 3: No. I grew ub in going to India in the
Speaker 3: country and you.
Speaker 1: Know, not a big therapy town.
Speaker 3: No, No, the opposite of progressive. And my parents are
Speaker 3: still there. You didn't have any of these conversations. My
Speaker 3: family never had a history of alcoholism as well. In
Speaker 3: my family, there is depression in my family. A lot
Speaker 3: of bad black dogs.
Speaker 1: Your dad's dad took his life.
Speaker 3: Right, that was nad Yeah, my dad's your.
Speaker 1: Dad's dad took his own life. So what did you
Speaker 1: know about depression?
Speaker 2: Well, we never spoke about it. Never. Even to this day,
Speaker 2: we still don't speak about it like it's something that
Speaker 2: you know. It comes up every now and then, and
Speaker 2: my all my family are so incredible, and they're an
Speaker 2: extension of me. Jimmy fucking He finds it so funny
Speaker 2: because when we're like, he's come over Christmas and stuff.
Speaker 1: But just a whole house of golden retriever.
Speaker 2: Is Mum, my dad, my sister and me, same person,
Speaker 2: same person. And Dad's like this big, gentle giant. But
Speaker 2: I could count on one hand how many times we've
Speaker 2: spoken about Gerard his dad, no idea, Like, all I
Speaker 2: know is that he put a gun in his mouth.
Speaker 2: That's all I know.
Speaker 3: Day's dad spoke to me at nace Bucks party, grabbed
Speaker 3: me and we walked away and had a conversation and
Speaker 3: it wasn't really an apology as such. And I don't
Speaker 3: have children, and you know, we were raised by our parents,
Speaker 3: and then we make decisions based upon that the stuff
Speaker 3: that they did that was good, the stuff that they
Speaker 3: did was bad. How I'm going to do it differently.
Speaker 3: And he said to me, something awful happened to me
Speaker 3: and happened to my father. And all I ever wanted
Speaker 3: to do was just have my kids in the most positive,
Speaker 3: uplifting household. And he's like, and I don't know if
Speaker 3: that's been hard as well.
Speaker 2: Which he did, by the way, like I'm so lucky
Speaker 2: that I.
Speaker 3: Could, and I hugged him and we were both sort
Speaker 3: of teary and nice dad reaches out. That's a set.
Speaker 3: It's hard when people reach out. Sometimes you're not a
Speaker 3: great spot because sometimes you don't talk about it. But no,
Speaker 3: Dad has reached out to me times to talk and
Speaker 3: we could sit here, and you know, it's easy to
Speaker 3: play those things about, like maybe Nate's dad has conversations
Speaker 3: with him, But Nathle also saved me plenty of times,
Speaker 3: and I was super low and he was just happy,
Speaker 3: and sometimes you need that. You just need someone who's
Speaker 3: just you know, we did have conversations, but there are
Speaker 3: plenty of times where we didn't. You just need someone
Speaker 3: to have a laugh and go for a walk or
Speaker 3: sit next to Everyone can do it, and it's just
Speaker 3: one of the worst things about you know, our brain,
Speaker 3: like should have, could have would I've spent a lot
Speaker 3: of time at Nace's house and with his family and
Speaker 3: now the most positive people you'll ever meet. And sometimes
Speaker 3: it's insufferable, Dad, but a lot of the time, like
Speaker 3: you need it, Like I'll be honest, there are times
Speaker 3: when you know I still get low and it's just
Speaker 3: nice to be around my happy golden retriever. You ever
Speaker 3: patted a dog, They're fucking lovely. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was thinking about this before because you know, obviously
Speaker 2: we've been on this unbelievable you know, journey of highs
Speaker 2: and lows with Jim and the struggles that you faced
Speaker 2: and the bravery that he show on air to talk
Speaker 2: about this stuff, which is it's just so important, like
Speaker 2: it is so important, and the messages we get and
Speaker 2: the emails that we get when Jim opens up about
Speaker 2: that is it's unbelievable. And people sharing their stories in
Speaker 2: a way that you know that these people have never
Speaker 2: said this before, and they're emailing two complete fucking strains.
Speaker 3: It's wild.
Speaker 1: I'm jumping in for a second because I want to
Speaker 1: play you a piece of audio from Jimmy and Nath's
Speaker 1: radio show. Recently, Jimmy spoke about the suicide of professional
Speaker 1: golf for a guy called Grayson Murray. And here's a
Speaker 1: portion of what Jimmy shared on air.
Speaker 3: You might be asking yourself, why is Jimmy talking about
Speaker 3: this to start the show? This didn't even happen here
Speaker 3: in Australia. To answer, honestly, I don't know. I didn't
Speaker 3: know Grayson. Maybe it's because I love golf. Maybe it's
Speaker 3: because I suffer from depression and anxiety myself. But if
Speaker 3: I'm being really honest, it's because my biggest fear is
Speaker 3: one day I will take my own life. Eight point
Speaker 3: six Australians die every day by side, that's over eight
Speaker 3: Australians every day, seventy five percent of those who take
Speaker 3: their own life for mail and suicide is the leading
Speaker 3: cause of death for Australians between the ages of fifteen
Speaker 3: and forty four. So when you ask yourself, why Isimy
Speaker 3: talking about this, it's because it needs to stop.
Speaker 1: Oh you can really hear the anger and the fear
Speaker 1: and the sorrow in Jimmy's voice. And this video went viral.
Speaker 1: It had an undeniable impact, reached millions of people, which
Speaker 1: is amazing. But for Jimmy, of course, there's a cost
Speaker 1: to sharing so much of himself with the public. Let's
Speaker 1: go back to our.
Speaker 3: Conversation Grayceome Murray videos getting three four million views, that's
Speaker 3: just on Instagram. That's tough. I've been getting stopped in
Speaker 3: the street more. You know, the gym people come up
Speaker 3: to me coffee shop, and that's, like I said, when
Speaker 3: I'm already struggling, it's I probably don't want to do anymore.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm happy to obviously have this conversation, you
Speaker 3: know better in terms of the radio show and that,
Speaker 3: like and the socials, I'm like, I just need a
Speaker 3: break from it sometimes because I hope that I help people,
Speaker 3: but it's everyone. People just come up to you and
Speaker 3: they don't they don't know anyone. They don't they've suffering
Speaker 3: themselves with depression, anxiety or some sort of mental health issue,
Speaker 3: or they've known someone who's suffered and someone that's sadly
Speaker 3: taking their ownenough. Like I said, it's over eight people
Speaker 3: a day that's still doing that in his country. They
Speaker 3: finally can see someone and they can be like, I
Speaker 3: want to talk to you.
Speaker 2: When Jim opens up about that. What I was saying is,
Speaker 2: you know, obviously they message him, but a lot of
Speaker 2: the time they call me and they ask how easy
Speaker 2: can we do anything for him? Is he okay? And
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. Two weeks ago, a close
Speaker 2: friend of ours she called me and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: she's gonna ask about Jim, like you know, all that
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. I was like, hey, how are you,
Speaker 2: and she goes, hey, I just want to make sure
Speaker 2: you're okay. How are you? I just cried. I just
Speaker 2: balled my eyes and I don't know why. I didn't
Speaker 2: know why, and she goes, you're okay, and I was like,
Speaker 2: no one asked me that before, and you know, when
Speaker 2: you didn't know you needed to be asked a question
Speaker 2: until you're asked that question. And I was like, I've
Speaker 2: been so used to, you know, looking after my best
Speaker 2: mate and making sure he's okay, and of course my
Speaker 2: wife as well, and you know, as dad was being
Speaker 2: like a caretaker and trying to offer as much as
Speaker 2: myself to the people around me as possible as somebody
Speaker 2: who has a you know, no internal monologue and kind
Speaker 2: of just says things all the time. I'd never check in,
Speaker 2: never with myself. Never.
Speaker 3: I will say I'm proud of Nathan that, you know,
Speaker 3: recently started seeing a psychologist. And it's something I've literally
Speaker 3: spoken about a lot, is that it's not just people
Speaker 3: who are you severely depressed or anxious. It's one of
Speaker 3: the most wonderful things to chat to someone completely outside
Speaker 3: of your own circle in your.
Speaker 1: Own how anyone gets through life with you don't need
Speaker 1: to have a diagnosed mental illness to it.
Speaker 2: You know, anyone listening, I would employ you, even if
Speaker 2: in your own head, if you're like, you know, I'm fine,
Speaker 2: go and talk to somebody, even if you are. Because
Speaker 2: I went in there and I sat down with my psychologist,
Speaker 2: who her name's Jane, and she's fucking unbelievable. And I
Speaker 2: sat down with her and she goes, why are you here?
Speaker 2: And I was like, I don't know, and she has
Speaker 2: just unlocked so many different things, and I think I
Speaker 2: eventually gave the answer was like, I want to improve myself.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I want to be a better best friend and a
Speaker 2: better co host. I want to be a better husband.
Speaker 2: I want to be a better brother to my sister,
Speaker 2: a son to my you know, my mum and dad.
Speaker 2: I want to I want to be better. I don't
Speaker 2: know how it can be better. That's your job, Jane,
Speaker 2: make me better.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: And Jim and I again, we've we've spoken at length
Speaker 2: about this as well. And I would, you know, I
Speaker 2: would implore as somebody who ironically ten years ago told
Speaker 2: him to go and see somebody. It took me a
Speaker 2: long time to do what I was saying to other people.
Speaker 1: I think you've got to do it in your thirties
Speaker 1: so that you can enjoy your forties. Yeah, that's my experience.
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about women. Yeah, something that
Speaker 1: there used to be and very much. This is why
Speaker 1: I'm a bit about radio is that it used to
Speaker 1: just be such a sexist. It's still such a male
Speaker 1: dominated part of the industry, which is why podcasts have
Speaker 1: just been such a wonderful place for women to flourish,
Speaker 1: because every gatekeeper in radio tends to be a man,
Speaker 1: and most of the hosts tend to be guys. Now,
Speaker 1: what's interesting to me is that you guys are very blokey,
Speaker 1: but you are real feminists. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: would identify as feminists.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Ironically, we've got our ratings the other day and our
Speaker 2: biggest audience is the twenty five to fifty five female.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that is.
Speaker 3: I mean, we make content choices, as I mentioned earlier
Speaker 3: on the show in the hours, and but again we're
Speaker 3: not women, so any content even like, I'm not an
Speaker 3: older person, I don't have kids, but you you, I've
Speaker 3: always tried to have as many conversations as I can
Speaker 3: with other people, so you learn about other people. I
Speaker 3: can't walk on your shoes. I don't know who you am,
Speaker 3: but I can sit there and I can listen. I
Speaker 3: can understand, or at least hope to what makes you tick,
Speaker 3: what you like, what you don't like, so as to
Speaker 3: why they do. I mean, we again, we hope for
Speaker 3: everyone to listen. But you know it's nice. I think
Speaker 3: you know, we are feminists. You know, we try to
Speaker 3: have conversations. Unfortunately, men tend to only listen to men.
Speaker 3: And you know that's why Nathan and I, as two
Speaker 3: straight white men and our privilege, we need to be
Speaker 3: having conversations that are difficult to have so that other
Speaker 3: men listen and go, oh, maybe you're talking about it.
Speaker 3: It might be And I think that's what also women
Speaker 3: respond to.
Speaker 2: You know, we've touched on it a bit so far
Speaker 2: since we've been chatting to But we're so lucky because
Speaker 2: we have some phenomenal women in our life who continue
Speaker 2: to shape who we are. And you know, we make
Speaker 2: jokes on air and stuff, but they're they're better than us.
Speaker 2: They are all better than us, Like my wife Meg,
Speaker 2: Jim and I we many times on air, like she
Speaker 2: is just a better person. She's funnier, she's smarter. And
Speaker 2: I said this in my wedding vowls, and Jim knows
Speaker 2: because we're standing right next to me. I said something
Speaker 2: along the lines of, like, you know, people have mentors
Speaker 2: in their life that they look up to. They might
Speaker 2: be in their industry. They might be a professional sports
Speaker 2: star or Lebron James, or if you're in comedy, you
Speaker 2: Hannah Gadsby or someone like that. Not only do I
Speaker 2: have a mentor in my life, it's somebody that I
Speaker 2: got to meet. It's somebody that I see every day,
Speaker 2: and it's somebody that I'm about to marry and have sex.
Speaker 2: And well, I mean, I hope fingers crossed.
Speaker 1: It's interesting what you say because it's also about being
Speaker 1: a role model for boys, because I'm the mother of
Speaker 1: a fifteen year old and also a twenty seven year
Speaker 1: old son and an eighteen year old daughter. But in
Speaker 1: terms of role models for young men, Andrew Tait is
Speaker 1: front center. Not for my son, but he's certainly dominant.
Speaker 1: And you wouldn't find a teenage boy who didn't know
Speaker 1: his name and who hasn't seen his content. What's your
Speaker 1: view about that?
Speaker 2: It's repulsive, really, and there's a reason that name has
Speaker 2: never even been said on our show.
Speaker 1: Why do you think he's so popular and how do
Speaker 1: we counteract it?
Speaker 3: I think it's about conversations because there is a.
Speaker 2: Large systematic change in education.
Speaker 3: But there is a large part of me that you know,
Speaker 3: I open social media and I see comments around Andrew
Speaker 3: Tate and kids following him in these pages about you know,
Speaker 3: how to be a real man and what you're to do,
Speaker 3: whether that be on Twitter or x what it's called
Speaker 3: TikTok Instagram. Right exists, I would say, as someone to
Speaker 3: grow up in a small country town that existed, right,
Speaker 3: there were these misogynistic views about how we viewed women
Speaker 3: and looked at them, and I definitely held some of
Speaker 3: those views because the men in my life and around
Speaker 3: me had those views.
Speaker 1: And you hadn't been exposed to other ones.
Speaker 3: So you'd see that. The reason that it changed for
Speaker 3: me was traveling was a big part. You know, moving
Speaker 3: to Brisbane, which probably doesn't sound like much, but then
Speaker 3: moving overseas as well and traveling. I was always interested
Speaker 3: in having conversations and meeting people, and if I would
Speaker 3: say something or make a joke at the expense of
Speaker 3: a woman or someone. There were people around me that
Speaker 3: held me accountable and they would go hey. They wouldn't
Speaker 3: say don't do it. They would always say why are
Speaker 3: you doing that? Why are you saying that? And it
Speaker 3: was the way they phrased that that I was like, oh, no,
Speaker 3: isn't this funny? And they're like is it? And then
Speaker 3: I'd like ruminate on it and you'd be like, no,
Speaker 3: it's not.
Speaker 1: Because like the old sexist humor jokes, all of that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, you had to unlearn that.
Speaker 3: Yes, right, So that tells me that where we are now,
Speaker 3: as someone who's unlearned it is that these kids are
Speaker 3: learning it from social media, right, That must be where
Speaker 3: they're learning it or the men in their life somewhere.
Speaker 1: It also shows me that they're capable of unlearning it.
Speaker 3: That keeps correct right, So that where to me it
Speaker 3: comes back to there is some confusion as to they're
Speaker 3: learning it somewhere, So we need to have conversations. So
Speaker 3: we need to get into schools, social media wherever they
Speaker 3: are at a young enough age to have a conversation
Speaker 3: and not you know, this sounds fucked but at times
Speaker 3: when you yell at a man going on. But if
Speaker 3: we're at a part of something and someone says or
Speaker 3: does something, hey, mate, what are you doing there? Why
Speaker 3: why are you saying that? Right that? Don't say that,
Speaker 3: that tends to lead to a conversation and positive change.
Speaker 2: We had We had a conversation me or with a
Speaker 2: psychologist who came on the other day. I'm going to
Speaker 2: get this wrong, but she did say something along the
Speaker 2: lines of, you know, with the unbelievably horrible things that
Speaker 2: are happening to women in this country and largely around
Speaker 2: the world, you know, there is a growth in the
Speaker 2: amount of men who are acknowledging that this is an issue,
Speaker 2: that there's an issue that needs to be addressed. A
Speaker 2: lot of these people going, yes, there's an issue. What
Speaker 2: they aren't doing is realizing that it's their issue. They're saying, yes,
Speaker 2: there's an issue, but I'm not going it's nothing to
Speaker 2: do with that.
Speaker 3: That's my issue.
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, holy shit, that house is burning. God,
Speaker 2: that house is burning. But I didn't put I'm well, it's.
Speaker 1: That's a shame.
Speaker 2: But I can see it, I can see I acknowledge it,
Speaker 2: and they think just by acknowledging it. Their job's done.
Speaker 2: They go, oh, it's like that bullshit thing when people
Speaker 2: go not all men, not all men are part of
Speaker 2: the problem, but all men can be a part of
Speaker 2: the solution. Education, calling out things, calling out things when
Speaker 2: they see it. And I read a thing the other
Speaker 2: day on you know, the role that men can play
Speaker 2: in lowering the horribleness of domestic violence and people being like,
Speaker 2: you know, you can use humor to be like, oh, mate,
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be saying that. That's not enough. It's not
Speaker 2: fucking enough. Because we talk in jokes, men talking jokes
Speaker 2: all the time, and because we talk in jokes and
Speaker 2: we're operating jokes all the time, we can't differentiate when
Speaker 2: you know, the joke I'm telling he's actually has a
Speaker 2: serious underlying meaning here. So it's not enough, it's not through.
Speaker 2: It doesn't cut through because that's how we operate constantly
Speaker 2: all the time. So if I were to sit there
Speaker 2: and be like, oh, you shouldn't say that, you'd be like, oh, yeah, right. Anyway,
Speaker 2: it's not enough to do that.
Speaker 1: So Julia Gillard spoke on the weekend, She did an
Speaker 1: interview and she said that they've feend so many strides
Speaker 1: forward for women in the last few decades and generations
Speaker 1: that there's a group of disaffected young men who are
Speaker 1: gravitating to Andrew Tate, who think that it's been at
Speaker 1: their expense and that things have gone too far and
Speaker 1: women have got too much. And she said, no one's
Speaker 1: really asked these young boys and men, are you okay?
Speaker 2: Yeah? And you know why, because blokes hate sitting in uncomfortability,
Speaker 2: They hate having that uncomfortable conversation and recognizing that, yes,
Speaker 2: there's an issue, but they're not connecting it to being like,
Speaker 2: this is not a women's issue. This is not a
Speaker 2: women's issue at all. This is our issue. This is
Speaker 2: a men's issue. And until we bridge that gap and
Speaker 2: understand that that issue is not just an issue, it's
Speaker 2: our issue, we're not going to have any change until
Speaker 2: that bridge has been built between the two things.
Speaker 3: When I was talking about the mental health stuff the
Speaker 3: other day, and I was putting it through the lens
Speaker 3: as a man and hopefully speaking to men, because again
Speaker 3: I mentioned those numbers and it's also seventy five percent
Speaker 3: of people who take their own life in Australia are men.
Speaker 3: A big thing, right is in a lot of these organizations.
Speaker 3: You know, we're talking and talking, but I think it's
Speaker 3: talking and listening. So it's the same thing with you know,
Speaker 3: young men, and what they're saying is like it has
Speaker 3: to be a conversation. And a lot of the things
Speaker 3: I've discovered in moving around the country, living overseas, living
Speaker 3: here is that men talk in statements. It's like, fuck them,
Speaker 3: fuck this, I did that. This is what happened. Yeah
Speaker 3: I did this thing. We don't really am I right,
Speaker 3: we don't, yeah, don't. We don't really converse. Like you'll
Speaker 3: sit at a pub even if you're watching the football
Speaker 3: and say, oh that guy was offside. I can't leave
Speaker 3: that call. There isn't enough actual conversation. We're not sitting
Speaker 3: here going, you know, asking a young man, Okay, how
Speaker 3: are they feeling? Why are they saying? Like, we don't talk.
Speaker 3: We just say things at each other and then sote leave.
Speaker 2: Happens all the time, to the point where you know,
Speaker 2: we have a really close friend of ours who recently
Speaker 2: went through a pretty bad breakup and then we went
Speaker 2: to the parb as all mates and all that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff, and we were there for halla at five
Speaker 2: six hours I come home and Meg turns to me
Speaker 2: and she goes, how is he? And you would have
Speaker 2: heard this before. How is he?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: Has it gone?
Speaker 2: And I go, oh, yeah, he's fine. The rooster's got up,
Speaker 2: so he's stock and he goes, you know, but what
Speaker 2: about the relationship? Did you ask him how he was?
Speaker 1: And as I moved out, they still talking whatever.
Speaker 2: And the best bit was I did ask him how
Speaker 2: he was. He goes, yeah, good, He goes great, awesome,
Speaker 2: what do you want to drink?
Speaker 3: But also that yeah, there is we don't.
Speaker 2: Want to sit in the young comport you okay? Yeah,
Speaker 2: moving on?
Speaker 3: There is a box tick now, especially I think with
Speaker 3: the movement around talking about it right and it's okay.
Speaker 3: I've had bosses and Nathan Noses, one of our bosses
Speaker 3: came up to me and after I had been open
Speaker 3: about likely I've got two stories into the shreds, one
Speaker 3: both on Aeoka, they both different. After I had been
Speaker 3: open about my depression anxiety, one boss came up and
Speaker 3: slapped me on the back and he goes, better, ask you, mate,
Speaker 3: you're the depressed one. You're okay, finger guns? Give me
Speaker 3: finger guns.
Speaker 2: Sitting next to him.
Speaker 3: Let this go finger guns anyway.
Speaker 2: A finger gunner. Wow, it was a real cowboy.
Speaker 3: I was like, yes, real wiggle. Tried to handle that
Speaker 3: the best I could. Another boss came up. She looked
Speaker 3: at me, She's like caging me. Yess, how's the pointing
Speaker 3: to her head?
Speaker 2: Looks like depression.
Speaker 3: Again, you know. I mean you can extend it further
Speaker 3: than just man, you know, but it's there is a
Speaker 3: box sick now. So you ask someone if they're okay,
Speaker 3: even they said, and then it's done and you can
Speaker 3: move on. But I do think a large part of
Speaker 3: that is, yeah, a lot of the conversations and then
Speaker 3: you'll be right without a mate in.
Speaker 1: A better way for them to handle that, apart from
Speaker 1: in the completely opposite way. But literally, if you've got
Speaker 1: someone and you want to check in without doing the
Speaker 1: head till hey.
Speaker 3: The talking is I guess asking the question is part that.
Speaker 3: So you've got to converse. So it's like, you know,
Speaker 3: how are you feeling. I've said that to men previously,
Speaker 3: and they have asked it, and I've seen it in
Speaker 3: a setting. But then they're already thinking of the next
Speaker 3: thing to say. They're like, I'm going to ask them
Speaker 3: how they are I'm going to ask them, you know
Speaker 3: how she are you moving out? But they haven't listened
Speaker 3: to anything any follow up. No, it's just I'm prepping
Speaker 3: the next question, prepping the next question. So that's why
Speaker 3: when I talk about I try and add the thing
Speaker 3: of like it's talking, but it's listening. You have to
Speaker 3: be listening to what they're saying, because again, men don't
Speaker 3: often get the opportunity. And I guess I'm privileged because
Speaker 3: when I talk about it, people come up to me
Speaker 3: and they will just open.
Speaker 1: Up right privilege.
Speaker 3: But people will want to talk about it. They will.
Speaker 3: They just no one's asking them. They're just waiting for
Speaker 3: that opportunity. And I'll bet you that there have been
Speaker 3: people that have inspired maybe what I've said or anyone said,
Speaker 3: and they've asked a question, but they just have not listened.
Speaker 3: And that one has said something about their not well
Speaker 3: or they need help, but they're already on to the
Speaker 3: next question. And that could have been a way to go, oh,
Speaker 3: if you're not great, gp mental health plan, let's check in,
Speaker 3: let's hit another date to have a coffee.
Speaker 2: It's one thing we've noticed, you know, with our show,
Speaker 2: is you know one that creates joy and a bit
Speaker 2: of escape. But when we have those conversations, you know,
Speaker 2: be about women and DV or mental health, like, that's
Speaker 2: when the real cut through is. If we just constantly
Speaker 2: bang on about it every single day, every single hour,
Speaker 2: there's no cut through because it's the exact same thing exactly.
Speaker 2: But when we do it, people listen, which is why
Speaker 2: we get such an incredible reaction from people. I mean, yes,
Speaker 2: a lot of those messages that we get are quite
Speaker 2: heavy with people opening up, and you know, we've had
Speaker 2: training since on how to deal with that, and we
Speaker 2: have you know, some pretty full on conversations about what's
Speaker 2: the response here, what do we need to do. But
Speaker 2: that's one thing that we've noticed with our platform and
Speaker 2: why we still think, you know, radio is alive and
Speaker 2: can have that impact on people. It's when we do
Speaker 2: things like that that really cut through. Like we'll get
Speaker 2: millions of views on our jokes and all that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff and people go, aha, good one, share it whatever.
Speaker 2: But people will write me a paragraph when we have
Speaker 2: conversations about this stuff. That's cut through. In my opinion.
Speaker 3: You asked earlier, you know, about our values, and I
Speaker 3: said they've changed and that is educating is a huge part.
Speaker 3: It's the value that Nathan I have is educating people
Speaker 3: now and understanding that, you know, we can use our
Speaker 3: platform for good. We can bring everyone in with the
Speaker 3: humor and the escape isn't them in there, And then
Speaker 3: we've got people in our audience that would not have
Speaker 3: these conversations. And to be honest, they never think they're
Speaker 3: coming because we're these fun guys who are doing all
Speaker 3: this fun stuff. But when we do it like it
Speaker 3: hits and then you get millions of views on something
Speaker 3: and I always need to remove myself because that's not
Speaker 3: a measurement of success. But when it comes about these
Speaker 3: more serious topics and you're getting millions of views, it
Speaker 3: does warm heart. People are talking about it, people are
Speaker 3: sharing it.
Speaker 2: We do that on purpose, by the way. We don't
Speaker 2: tell them like radio, it's all about hooks and teasers
Speaker 2: and this is coming up and coming up.
Speaker 3: Jimmy's doing depression.
Speaker 2: We're giving away your TV by the way, Yes, who's
Speaker 2: anxious again? We've got to sting depressed. You know, we
Speaker 2: purposely don't do that, and I know it's kind of
Speaker 2: a stealth bit of it. Yeah, it's a bit.
Speaker 3: We'll do it after joking about it. He was like
Speaker 3: we were doing breakfast and he was like sort of
Speaker 3: talking about like, you know, you should hook that through
Speaker 3: the show. You're going to do this big chat about depression.
Speaker 3: That makes me.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to hook that, Christ And we'll strategically
Speaker 2: put it after like a big prize giveaway or dad
Speaker 2: jokes or you know, a regular segment that people know
Speaker 2: when are a part of, so we can fucking blindside
Speaker 2: them and be like we know you're here, so now
Speaker 2: you're going to listen to this.
Speaker 1: Jimmy and Nath, thank you so much. I'm a new fan. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's time for a debrief. Look, I didn't know really
Speaker 1: anything about Jimmy and Nath. Someone suggested that I interview them,
Speaker 1: and it's kind of not my world.
Speaker 3: There.
Speaker 1: You know, two men in their early thirties and I
Speaker 1: don't listen to radio, so I kind of wasn't aware
Speaker 1: of them.
Speaker 2: But I'm a bit.
Speaker 1: In love after that. I mean, I'm in love with
Speaker 1: their friendship. Because when you are marinating in the news
Speaker 1: cycle like I have to as part of my job,
Speaker 1: and look, you can't really miss the news stories that
Speaker 1: we've all been seeing over the last few months and
Speaker 1: years particularly, there's a new story every day, or more
Speaker 1: than one every day, about men doing something awful, and
Speaker 1: it's easy to get pretty cynical and pretty bitter and
Speaker 1: pretty angry. I don't know. I just love being reminded,
Speaker 1: not that I need reminding, because I've got so many
Speaker 1: wonderful men in my life, but I don't know the
Speaker 1: way they speak, the role models that they are for
Speaker 1: a new generation of young men. I think it's also
Speaker 1: no accident that so many of their listeners are women.
Speaker 1: There's something about the friendship and the camaraderie of men
Speaker 1: when there is no sexism there whatsoever. And it's interesting
Speaker 1: because Hamish and Andy are the same. There's no undercurrent
Speaker 1: of any kind. There's not a tinge, there's not a
Speaker 1: whisper of any sexism. And I know that sounds probably
Speaker 1: ridiculous to point out, but in a world where I
Speaker 1: don't know, I grew up with Benny Hill, how about
Speaker 1: you let Alone, Andrew Tate, etc. It's just so lovely
Speaker 1: and it's so refreshing and so inspiring. It's hard to
Speaker 1: listen to Jimmy and nath and the way they talk
Speaker 1: about their friendship and their creative partnership, and their mental
Speaker 1: health and their struggles and their support for one another,
Speaker 1: and how they feel about the women in their life
Speaker 1: and not feel really hopeful. I am definitely going to
Speaker 1: be cheering them on from this point, and I hope
Speaker 1: that more people, especially men, continue to learn and listen
Speaker 1: to them and from them. Hop up a link to
Speaker 1: their podcast in the show notes, where we'll also share
Speaker 1: some links to resources in case this episode brought up
Speaker 1: anything difficult for you around mental health or suicide. Take
Speaker 1: Jimmy and Nate's advice and please get the help and
Speaker 1: the support that you need. I know I do all
Speaker 1: the time. Therapy is the best thing that I ever did.
Speaker 1: I agree with Jimmy and even Naith is now a convert.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and if that conversation left you wanting more,
Speaker 1: you are in luck. We have more than five hundred
Speaker 1: incredible conversations in our archive for you to binge. We've
Speaker 1: been doing this show for ten years now, so we
Speaker 1: have some really amazing conversations. Wherever you get your podcasts,
Speaker 1: which is right here because you're listening to me, go
Speaker 1: find them, get them in your ears. Love you see soon.
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Naima Brown, with sound production
Speaker 1: by Leah Porges and Tom Lyon.