1
00:00:10,614 --> 00:00:15,294
Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges

2
00:00:15,334 --> 00:00:18,174
Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

3
00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:20,494
Speaker 1: is recorded on. Hey friends, just wanted to let you

4
00:00:20,614 --> 00:00:23,374
Speaker 1: know that we're talking about birth trauma on the show today,

5
00:00:23,414 --> 00:00:25,654
Speaker 1: so if that is a tough topic for you, please

6
00:00:25,854 --> 00:00:31,654
Speaker 1: do take care when listening. I'm Claire Murphy. This is

7
00:00:31,734 --> 00:00:35,334
Speaker 1: Mumma MIA's daily news podcast, The Quickie. The report and

8
00:00:35,414 --> 00:00:38,774
Speaker 1: its associated recommendations from the New South Wales Birth Trauma

9
00:00:38,854 --> 00:00:41,854
Speaker 1: Inquiry has now finally been released. But does it go

10
00:00:41,974 --> 00:00:44,814
Speaker 1: anyway near far enough for the four thousand people who

11
00:00:44,894 --> 00:00:48,614
Speaker 1: submitted their experiences to feel like they've been properly heard.

12
00:00:49,414 --> 00:00:51,614
Speaker 1: Before we find out what that report recommends to help

13
00:00:51,654 --> 00:00:54,654
Speaker 1: women avoid a traumatic birth experience, let's get the latest

14
00:00:54,694 --> 00:00:58,014
Speaker 1: from the Quikie newsroom for Tuesday, June eleven. An initial

15
00:00:58,054 --> 00:01:01,814
Speaker 1: autopsy on the body of TV doctor Michael Moseley shows

16
00:01:01,854 --> 00:01:05,134
Speaker 1: he likely dined of natural causes just a short distance

17
00:01:05,134 --> 00:01:07,934
Speaker 1: from a beach bar where he could have received assistance.

18
00:01:08,294 --> 00:01:10,974
Speaker 1: The sixty seven year old British TV doctor left the

19
00:01:11,014 --> 00:01:12,894
Speaker 1: place he was staying with his wife on the Greek

20
00:01:12,934 --> 00:01:15,454
Speaker 1: island of Simmy to go for a walk, but ended

21
00:01:15,534 --> 00:01:17,534
Speaker 1: up taking a wrong turn that led him on a

22
00:01:17,534 --> 00:01:20,974
Speaker 1: difficult two hour trek in more than forty degree temperatures.

23
00:01:21,294 --> 00:01:23,934
Speaker 1: His body was found five days later behind the fence

24
00:01:23,974 --> 00:01:25,894
Speaker 1: of a beach bar on the opposite side of the

25
00:01:25,934 --> 00:01:28,494
Speaker 1: island to where he set off. Based on how he

26
00:01:28,614 --> 00:01:31,134
Speaker 1: was found, investigators believe he may have sat down to

27
00:01:31,214 --> 00:01:35,014
Speaker 1: rest before he lost consciousness and passed away, or collapsed

28
00:01:35,054 --> 00:01:37,694
Speaker 1: while trying to reach help. A year on from one

29
00:01:37,734 --> 00:01:40,494
Speaker 1: of Australia's worst road accidents, the father of one of

30
00:01:40,494 --> 00:01:43,294
Speaker 1: the victims is fighting to ensure something like this never

31
00:01:43,334 --> 00:01:46,814
Speaker 1: happens to another family. Adam Bray's son Zach, was one

32
00:01:46,814 --> 00:01:49,454
Speaker 1: of ten people killed when a bus carrying people back

33
00:01:49,494 --> 00:01:51,694
Speaker 1: from a wedding in the New South Wales Hunter Valley

34
00:01:52,054 --> 00:01:55,334
Speaker 1: tipped over and slid while navigating a roundabout entry to

35
00:01:55,414 --> 00:01:58,894
Speaker 1: a highway near Greta. Bus driver, Brett Barton, remains in

36
00:01:58,934 --> 00:02:02,414
Speaker 1: custody after pleading guilty to ten counts of dangerous driving

37
00:02:02,494 --> 00:02:06,454
Speaker 1: causing death, nine of dangerous driving causing grievous bodily harm

38
00:02:06,734 --> 00:02:11,534
Speaker 1: and sixteen of furious driving causing bodily harm. Prosecutors controversially

39
00:02:11,574 --> 00:02:15,214
Speaker 1: withdrawing ten manslaughter charges in exchange for the guilty plea.

40
00:02:15,694 --> 00:02:19,614
Speaker 1: Adam Bray has created an advocacy group called Stop Bus Tragedies,

41
00:02:19,654 --> 00:02:24,254
Speaker 1: which involves victims, families, survivors and experts pushing state and

42
00:02:24,334 --> 00:02:28,374
Speaker 1: federal governments for safety reforms, including promoting the importance of

43
00:02:28,374 --> 00:02:31,014
Speaker 1: wearing a seat belt on a bus and considering an

44
00:02:31,014 --> 00:02:35,094
Speaker 1: eighty kilometer limit on buses carrying standing passengers with mandatary

45
00:02:35,174 --> 00:02:39,254
Speaker 1: drug and alcohol testing for drivers. The Socoroos will host

46
00:02:39,334 --> 00:02:42,534
Speaker 1: Palestine in a World Cup qualifier in Perth tonight, with

47
00:02:42,614 --> 00:02:45,094
Speaker 1: the visiting team saying the war back in their country

48
00:02:45,494 --> 00:02:48,414
Speaker 1: is providing them constant inspiration for them to beat the

49
00:02:48,454 --> 00:02:52,574
Speaker 1: odds and qualify. Australia has already secured their path to

50
00:02:52,614 --> 00:02:56,734
Speaker 1: the next stage of qualifying, winning their opening five games. Palestine,

51
00:02:56,774 --> 00:02:59,174
Speaker 1: who are ranked ninety third in the world, have also

52
00:02:59,294 --> 00:03:02,654
Speaker 1: qualified with one game to spare, posting two wins and

53
00:03:02,774 --> 00:03:06,414
Speaker 1: two draws. Their only loss was to Australia back in November.

54
00:03:06,814 --> 00:03:10,214
Speaker 1: Palestinian midfielder Mohammad Rashid says their death spread to keep

55
00:03:10,254 --> 00:03:12,414
Speaker 1: winning to bring a tiny bit of joy to those

56
00:03:12,454 --> 00:03:16,214
Speaker 1: suffering back in Gaza, saying it's their only motivation right now,

57
00:03:16,414 --> 00:03:19,214
Speaker 1: because there's really nothing else to work for, saying this

58
00:03:19,374 --> 00:03:22,014
Speaker 1: is the only thing people are watching that gives them hope,

59
00:03:22,254 --> 00:03:24,774
Speaker 1: saying well, this keeps them going. They pray that everything

60
00:03:24,814 --> 00:03:28,694
Speaker 1: will stop and peace will prevail. With the Paris Olympics

61
00:03:28,774 --> 00:03:31,374
Speaker 1: just over a month away, two Aussie swimmers are looking

62
00:03:31,574 --> 00:03:35,214
Speaker 1: very dangerous at selection trials. Both Arian Titmas and Kaylee

63
00:03:35,294 --> 00:03:38,014
Speaker 1: McEwen came close to breaking world records at the Brisbane

64
00:03:38,054 --> 00:03:41,014
Speaker 1: Trials last night. Titmas ahead of her four hundred meter

65
00:03:41,094 --> 00:03:44,174
Speaker 1: record until the last ten meters, ending up point zero

66
00:03:44,334 --> 00:03:47,694
Speaker 1: six seconds over. Kaylee mcuwen said a Commonwealth record in

67
00:03:47,734 --> 00:03:50,894
Speaker 1: the two hundred meter individual medley, the reigning Olympic one

68
00:03:51,014 --> 00:03:54,854
Speaker 1: hundred and two hundred meter backstroke champion touched zero point

69
00:03:54,894 --> 00:03:58,494
Speaker 1: five to one seconds outside the Olympic record. That's what's

70
00:03:58,534 --> 00:04:01,054
Speaker 1: going on in the world today. Next, do the recommendations

71
00:04:01,054 --> 00:04:03,814
Speaker 1: from the Birth traumer Inquiry actually go some way to

72
00:04:03,934 --> 00:04:07,014
Speaker 1: fixing a system that has let so many new mothers down.

73
00:04:18,854 --> 00:04:21,974
Speaker 1: The New South Wales Birth Trauma Inquiry recently released their

74
00:04:22,014 --> 00:04:26,894
Speaker 1: report after six hearings and an unprecedented four thousand submissions,

75
00:04:27,094 --> 00:04:30,854
Speaker 1: mostly from mothers with first hand experience, which was tagged

76
00:04:30,894 --> 00:04:33,894
Speaker 1: as the me too movement for women who've suffered trauma

77
00:04:34,014 --> 00:04:38,654
Speaker 1: during childbirth. The stories were not easy to hear. Some

78
00:04:38,774 --> 00:04:42,534
Speaker 1: explained how their caesarean surgery had begun even though they

79
00:04:42,614 --> 00:04:44,974
Speaker 1: told the doctor they could still feel it when they

80
00:04:45,054 --> 00:04:47,774
Speaker 1: underwent the ice test to check if the anesthesia had

81
00:04:47,854 --> 00:04:52,054
Speaker 1: kicked in. Some explained how despite being in pain post birth,

82
00:04:52,094 --> 00:04:56,094
Speaker 1: they weren't given any relief. Interventions during labour were done

83
00:04:56,134 --> 00:04:59,654
Speaker 1: without consent, like Tomorrow, who told the Commission that her

84
00:04:59,694 --> 00:05:03,294
Speaker 1: body was already involuntarily pushing with her baby well on

85
00:05:03,334 --> 00:05:05,894
Speaker 1: the way to arriving when the doctor screamed at her

86
00:05:05,934 --> 00:05:09,094
Speaker 1: to stop, sedated her and performed a C section without

87
00:05:09,094 --> 00:05:14,134
Speaker 1: her permision. Alexandra was threatened with child Protective Services if

88
00:05:14,174 --> 00:05:18,014
Speaker 1: she discharged herself from hospital. She says she just didn't

89
00:05:18,014 --> 00:05:20,214
Speaker 1: want to be there, but she says they saw her

90
00:05:20,294 --> 00:05:23,494
Speaker 1: as a single mother who'd done IVF, as a red flag.

91
00:05:24,254 --> 00:05:27,414
Speaker 1: Some women were left with horrific birth injuries that require

92
00:05:27,494 --> 00:05:30,854
Speaker 1: ongoing treatment, but were offered nothing to support them after

93
00:05:30,854 --> 00:05:36,494
Speaker 1: they were discharged from hospital. Naomi told the inquiry how

94
00:05:36,494 --> 00:05:40,214
Speaker 1: a communication breakdown between her health care professionals meant that

95
00:05:40,294 --> 00:05:44,294
Speaker 1: her still birth was recorded as an unexplained death. She

96
00:05:44,374 --> 00:05:48,054
Speaker 1: had already experienced unimaginable trauma after finding out that her

97
00:05:48,054 --> 00:05:51,134
Speaker 1: full term baby, girl Bella, didn't survive the birth. An

98
00:05:51,134 --> 00:05:54,534
Speaker 1: autopsy finding that prolonged second stage labor had caused her

99
00:05:54,534 --> 00:05:57,454
Speaker 1: baby to asphyxiate, but when the baby's death was filed

100
00:05:57,454 --> 00:06:02,934
Speaker 1: as unexplained, it automatically dispatched police to the grieving mother's bedside.

101
00:06:03,014 --> 00:06:05,774
Speaker 1: Naomi was forced to hand her deceased little one to

102
00:06:05,854 --> 00:06:08,934
Speaker 1: officers who put her in an ice box, and it

103
00:06:08,974 --> 00:06:11,374
Speaker 1: would be week before she'd be allowed to see her again.

104
00:06:11,894 --> 00:06:14,294
Speaker 1: She couldn't afford the burial for her lost little girl,

105
00:06:14,534 --> 00:06:17,414
Speaker 1: and she couldn't afford the therapy she so badly needed

106
00:06:17,414 --> 00:06:21,454
Speaker 1: to get her through that experience. The report's recommendations do

107
00:06:21,574 --> 00:06:25,174
Speaker 1: include a reference to increasing Medicare support and reducing gap

108
00:06:25,214 --> 00:06:28,694
Speaker 1: fees for psychology, but for Naomi, she told the ABC

109
00:06:28,734 --> 00:06:30,854
Speaker 1: that it was too vague and fell short of the

110
00:06:30,894 --> 00:06:34,454
Speaker 1: forty bolt build Medicare psychology session she was hoping to see.

111
00:06:36,214 --> 00:06:39,214
Speaker 1: Larissa was told by her healthcare professionals that at nineteen

112
00:06:39,294 --> 00:06:41,894
Speaker 1: years of age, she was obviously more concerned with her

113
00:06:41,934 --> 00:06:45,494
Speaker 1: post baby body when she reported concerns about weight loss

114
00:06:45,574 --> 00:06:49,054
Speaker 1: during pregnancy. In fact, she became so weak in the

115
00:06:49,054 --> 00:06:51,854
Speaker 1: final weeks of her pregnancy that she couldn't even stand

116
00:06:51,934 --> 00:06:54,254
Speaker 1: up in the shower, and she felt her baby moving

117
00:06:54,374 --> 00:06:57,254
Speaker 1: less and less, but the midwhile she met with played

118
00:06:57,254 --> 00:07:00,694
Speaker 1: down her concerns because of her age. She would give

119
00:07:00,694 --> 00:07:03,894
Speaker 1: birth to a stillborn daughter during an emergency CEA section.

120
00:07:04,294 --> 00:07:06,574
Speaker 1: She'd been sedated and didn't know that her baby had

121
00:07:06,614 --> 00:07:09,894
Speaker 1: died when she woke up. Cassidy Ray Colla aps a

122
00:07:09,894 --> 00:07:13,454
Speaker 1: week after she gave birth, suffering several strokes. She'd been

123
00:07:13,454 --> 00:07:17,654
Speaker 1: discharged from hospital after giving birth despite suffering high blood pressure,

124
00:07:17,934 --> 00:07:21,494
Speaker 1: told her risk was low because she was only twenty one.

125
00:07:21,574 --> 00:07:24,494
Speaker 1: These are just some of their harrowing stories the Commission heard,

126
00:07:24,734 --> 00:07:28,854
Speaker 1: and not just from traumatized mothers, but from healthcare professionals too,

127
00:07:29,214 --> 00:07:32,974
Speaker 1: who explained links between traumatic birth and rates of postnatal depression.

128
00:07:33,454 --> 00:07:36,574
Speaker 1: The inquiry also heard how programs assisting new mothers had

129
00:07:36,574 --> 00:07:39,974
Speaker 1: been shut down or defunded, that regional maternal units were

130
00:07:40,014 --> 00:07:44,014
Speaker 1: also closing down, forcing mothers to travel hundreds of kilometers

131
00:07:44,014 --> 00:07:50,134
Speaker 1: for help. The report gave forty three recommendations to try

132
00:07:50,134 --> 00:07:53,774
Speaker 1: and ensure that more people don't suffer avoidable and preventable

133
00:07:53,774 --> 00:07:56,734
Speaker 1: birth trauma. To help us unpack some of them is

134
00:07:56,814 --> 00:07:59,734
Speaker 1: doctor Hazel Keedel, one of the authors of the Australian

135
00:07:59,774 --> 00:08:02,974
Speaker 1: Birth Experience Study and a senior lecturer in Midwiffrey at

136
00:08:03,054 --> 00:08:06,494
Speaker 1: Western Sydney University. Hazel, thank you so much for helping

137
00:08:06,574 --> 00:08:09,734
Speaker 1: us understand this report's recommendations. I know we can't get

138
00:08:09,734 --> 00:08:12,374
Speaker 1: through all forty three here today, but can we start

139
00:08:12,374 --> 00:08:15,574
Speaker 1: with those in relation to the pregnancy stage and one

140
00:08:15,614 --> 00:08:19,094
Speaker 1: is around continuity of care? What is the report recommending?

141
00:08:19,454 --> 00:08:22,214
Speaker 2: So this is I think the most pivotal point of

142
00:08:22,334 --> 00:08:25,654
Speaker 2: all the recommendations, and that is ensuring that every woman

143
00:08:25,734 --> 00:08:31,214
Speaker 2: has access to a known care provider throughout pregnancy, lab

144
00:08:31,254 --> 00:08:33,934
Speaker 2: and birth and post nately. And we know that the

145
00:08:33,974 --> 00:08:38,134
Speaker 2: evidence really shouts out the importance of contented care with

146
00:08:38,214 --> 00:08:41,774
Speaker 2: a midwife. And the next recommendation down did state that

147
00:08:41,814 --> 00:08:44,414
Speaker 2: they need to expand through group practice. So that is

148
00:08:44,454 --> 00:08:46,854
Speaker 2: that constitutive care with a midwife and the public hostal

149
00:08:46,894 --> 00:08:50,294
Speaker 2: system across New South Wales, because that is where you've

150
00:08:50,334 --> 00:08:52,294
Speaker 2: seen as the gold standards, and that is where we've

151
00:08:52,334 --> 00:08:56,734
Speaker 2: seen the evidence of decreasing interventions and increasing women's satisfaction.

152
00:08:57,334 --> 00:09:01,334
Speaker 1: It also recommends around some increases in education too. I

153
00:09:01,334 --> 00:09:03,774
Speaker 1: guess most women presume that they will get some level

154
00:09:03,774 --> 00:09:06,014
Speaker 1: of education when they're going into having a baby, but

155
00:09:06,534 --> 00:09:09,294
Speaker 1: there is obviously some hurdles around that when it comes

156
00:09:09,334 --> 00:09:12,254
Speaker 1: to diversity as well. Can you talk us through education

157
00:09:12,334 --> 00:09:13,854
Speaker 1: and diversity in the recommendations?

158
00:09:14,254 --> 00:09:18,294
Speaker 2: Absolutely. There is a huge variety of the education that

159
00:09:18,454 --> 00:09:20,774
Speaker 2: is out there, and some women end up with none

160
00:09:21,014 --> 00:09:24,934
Speaker 2: because their local health district might charge for their education.

161
00:09:25,334 --> 00:09:27,814
Speaker 2: There's so much variety. They're going to have one hospital

162
00:09:27,894 --> 00:09:31,534
Speaker 2: that provides free services and provides services for education in

163
00:09:31,534 --> 00:09:36,094
Speaker 2: different languages, and others that provide nothing. And COVID really

164
00:09:36,094 --> 00:09:38,534
Speaker 2: did close down so many because they couldn't do those

165
00:09:38,534 --> 00:09:41,174
Speaker 2: face to face I've been part of the studies have

166
00:09:41,254 --> 00:09:43,694
Speaker 2: looked at how it was impacted doing COVID and then

167
00:09:43,734 --> 00:09:46,174
Speaker 2: afterwards and a lot of our hospitals have not come

168
00:09:46,254 --> 00:09:49,814
Speaker 2: back on board with offering pace to face education or

169
00:09:49,854 --> 00:09:53,294
Speaker 2: even offering tours of the labor board. So there is

170
00:09:53,654 --> 00:09:56,254
Speaker 2: a lot of variety out there. There's a lot of

171
00:09:56,254 --> 00:10:00,814
Speaker 2: online education as well, but that's not the recommended guidelines

172
00:10:00,854 --> 00:10:04,054
Speaker 2: on what should be covered in those classes. There's also

173
00:10:04,374 --> 00:10:07,734
Speaker 2: you know, they're not reached out to women of different

174
00:10:07,774 --> 00:10:10,014
Speaker 2: backgrounds as well, so they might not be available in

175
00:10:10,014 --> 00:10:13,854
Speaker 2: different languages, they might not be targeted to people who

176
00:10:13,894 --> 00:10:18,374
Speaker 2: are lgbcqiplus they might not be targeted to different cultural backgrounds.

177
00:10:18,374 --> 00:10:19,694
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of work that needs to be

178
00:10:19,694 --> 00:10:23,174
Speaker 2: done in that pregnancy and also focusing on after birth

179
00:10:23,214 --> 00:10:24,814
Speaker 2: as well as so how to care for your baby,

180
00:10:24,894 --> 00:10:27,654
Speaker 2: how your baby's going to make changes in your relationships.

181
00:10:28,014 --> 00:10:30,894
Speaker 1: What about around birth plans, Hazel, because this is something

182
00:10:30,934 --> 00:10:33,814
Speaker 1: that a lot of women talk about in the aftermath

183
00:10:33,814 --> 00:10:35,814
Speaker 1: of labors, that they went in with sort of a

184
00:10:35,894 --> 00:10:38,694
Speaker 1: rough idea of what they wanted and what they would

185
00:10:39,054 --> 00:10:44,574
Speaker 1: consent to during their childbirthing experience, but sometimes that's not respected.

186
00:10:44,654 --> 00:10:46,214
Speaker 1: What does the report say about that?

187
00:10:46,734 --> 00:10:50,534
Speaker 2: So the recommendations are that there are birth plans freely

188
00:10:50,574 --> 00:10:54,534
Speaker 2: available and that they are discussed and actually utilized. But

189
00:10:54,654 --> 00:10:57,534
Speaker 2: we know that that's not what women have experienced in

190
00:10:57,574 --> 00:10:59,894
Speaker 2: the past, and this came up in the inquiry but

191
00:10:59,974 --> 00:11:02,574
Speaker 2: also in our Birth Experience study where we actually ask

192
00:11:02,614 --> 00:11:05,094
Speaker 2: the question to women, you know, what was your experience

193
00:11:05,134 --> 00:11:07,294
Speaker 2: around birth plans? And we've found that a lot of

194
00:11:07,334 --> 00:11:10,134
Speaker 2: women had created one, but they weren't so ported by

195
00:11:10,134 --> 00:11:13,414
Speaker 2: their healthcare provider in full or even in part. So

196
00:11:13,454 --> 00:11:16,134
Speaker 2: there is a lot of discrepancy between what women are

197
00:11:16,214 --> 00:11:19,054
Speaker 2: learning and then what women are with me, and then

198
00:11:19,094 --> 00:11:21,494
Speaker 2: what women are actually then you know, getting from their

199
00:11:21,534 --> 00:11:25,094
Speaker 2: healthcare provider. And it's not about expectations. I really want

200
00:11:25,134 --> 00:11:28,174
Speaker 2: to dispute this idea that women have too high expectations.

201
00:11:28,294 --> 00:11:32,054
Speaker 2: It's actually down to communication and respectful communication. You can

202
00:11:32,094 --> 00:11:34,174
Speaker 2: really sit with a woman and go, well, that's not

203
00:11:34,254 --> 00:11:35,814
Speaker 2: something that is done in this area, but this is

204
00:11:35,854 --> 00:11:38,054
Speaker 2: what we could do instead. It's very different to the

205
00:11:38,174 --> 00:11:40,294
Speaker 2: saying no, we're not going to do any of it.

206
00:11:41,014 --> 00:11:45,014
Speaker 1: Let's move into the actual labor part of things. A

207
00:11:45,094 --> 00:11:47,974
Speaker 1: lot of the traumatic stories that we heard come out

208
00:11:48,014 --> 00:11:53,414
Speaker 1: of the inquiry was when interventions were done without consent

209
00:11:53,854 --> 00:11:57,694
Speaker 1: and sometimes left women with some pretty traumatic injuries that

210
00:11:57,974 --> 00:12:02,374
Speaker 1: are for some a lifelong issue. What does this report

211
00:12:02,454 --> 00:12:06,054
Speaker 1: say about medical interventions in the midst of labor when

212
00:12:06,214 --> 00:12:07,534
Speaker 1: everything is chaos.

213
00:12:07,814 --> 00:12:12,734
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really recognizing the importance of informed consent. Informed

214
00:12:12,734 --> 00:12:15,134
Speaker 2: consent isn't a one off. You can't just say, do

215
00:12:15,174 --> 00:12:16,814
Speaker 2: you give me consent? Or whatever I want to do

216
00:12:16,814 --> 00:12:19,094
Speaker 2: to you during labor birth, and it is something that

217
00:12:19,174 --> 00:12:21,694
Speaker 2: has to be checked at every single step of the way.

218
00:12:21,894 --> 00:12:26,054
Speaker 2: It identified that healthcare providers need some more education around

219
00:12:26,094 --> 00:12:30,294
Speaker 2: informed consent, especially during emergency situations or when things are

220
00:12:30,294 --> 00:12:33,414
Speaker 2: happening quite quickly, and that women really need to be

221
00:12:33,534 --> 00:12:35,374
Speaker 2: the leaders of that. You know, they need to be

222
00:12:35,414 --> 00:12:38,054
Speaker 2: able to say what they give, consent to what they don't.

223
00:12:38,454 --> 00:12:41,214
Speaker 2: It can be tricky, but there's always time to have

224
00:12:41,214 --> 00:12:44,214
Speaker 2: a quick conversation and a quick check in how you're

225
00:12:44,214 --> 00:12:46,614
Speaker 2: feeling right now? Is this okay? When we look at

226
00:12:46,654 --> 00:12:50,614
Speaker 2: the research around first trauma from the women's perspective, the

227
00:12:50,654 --> 00:12:54,574
Speaker 2: biggest category comes out is the loss of control. So

228
00:12:54,614 --> 00:12:57,614
Speaker 2: when that control is completely taken off for women and

229
00:12:57,654 --> 00:13:00,934
Speaker 2: they're not being part of that, then that can contribute

230
00:13:00,974 --> 00:13:02,574
Speaker 2: to feeling the experience was traumatic.

231
00:13:03,174 --> 00:13:07,214
Speaker 1: Let's move into after so a lot of the trauma

232
00:13:07,254 --> 00:13:11,574
Speaker 1: that's experienced is then dealt with sort of not in

233
00:13:11,614 --> 00:13:14,374
Speaker 1: the best manner afterwards. A lot of women talk about

234
00:13:14,654 --> 00:13:17,414
Speaker 1: having injuries that they don't have access to support for.

235
00:13:17,774 --> 00:13:21,054
Speaker 1: They talk about having psychological damage that they don't have

236
00:13:21,134 --> 00:13:24,814
Speaker 1: access for support for. Do the recommendations cover off on.

237
00:13:24,774 --> 00:13:28,094
Speaker 2: That, yeah, they do. So having a severe birth injury

238
00:13:28,414 --> 00:13:33,054
Speaker 2: can be a source or having a traumatic birth, and

239
00:13:33,654 --> 00:13:35,854
Speaker 2: women are just not giving support about that. It's like

240
00:13:35,854 --> 00:13:38,574
Speaker 2: an expectation, Well, that's just what happens when you have

241
00:13:38,614 --> 00:13:41,374
Speaker 2: a baby, and there can be ongoing and from many

242
00:13:41,414 --> 00:13:44,814
Speaker 2: women who have severe perenial trauma can be lifelong issues.

243
00:13:45,094 --> 00:13:48,774
Speaker 2: So actually having the experts in the post birth environment

244
00:13:49,374 --> 00:13:52,534
Speaker 2: for all women who are potentially going to experiences that,

245
00:13:52,614 --> 00:13:56,854
Speaker 2: particularly for women with severe birth injuries, is vital. But

246
00:13:56,894 --> 00:13:59,454
Speaker 2: then for all women with mental health issues from the

247
00:13:59,494 --> 00:14:02,734
Speaker 2: traumatic birth, there was not a very good referral pathway

248
00:14:03,094 --> 00:14:05,694
Speaker 2: and not a lot of support for women. So they

249
00:14:05,774 --> 00:14:07,934
Speaker 2: might go and see their GP, they might get access

250
00:14:07,934 --> 00:14:10,454
Speaker 2: to mental health care plan us down to a GP

251
00:14:11,174 --> 00:14:13,774
Speaker 2: acknowledging that they actually have birth trauma in the first

252
00:14:13,774 --> 00:14:17,294
Speaker 2: place and it's not a diagnosable term. So it's really

253
00:14:17,334 --> 00:14:19,534
Speaker 2: making sure that there is a good rack around service

254
00:14:19,574 --> 00:14:22,654
Speaker 2: for women. It's not just in that immediate time, it

255
00:14:22,694 --> 00:14:25,694
Speaker 2: is for at least a year. It was noted in

256
00:14:25,734 --> 00:14:29,454
Speaker 2: the inquiry that the reduction from twenty to ten metal

257
00:14:29,494 --> 00:14:32,734
Speaker 2: health sessions was difficult for women and they often needed

258
00:14:32,774 --> 00:14:35,614
Speaker 2: more sessions, and that there was a lot of out

259
00:14:35,614 --> 00:14:37,014
Speaker 2: of pocket costs involved with that.

260
00:14:40,334 --> 00:14:42,814
Speaker 1: What women now need is for the New South Wales

261
00:14:42,854 --> 00:14:46,734
Speaker 1: government to adopt these recommendations. But how likely is that

262
00:14:46,814 --> 00:14:50,574
Speaker 1: to happen. Animal Justice Party New South Wales MP Emma

263
00:14:50,654 --> 00:14:54,094
Speaker 1: Hurst was the chair of the Select Committee on Birth Trauma. Emma,

264
00:14:54,494 --> 00:14:57,534
Speaker 1: you sat on the committee that outlined this report. What

265
00:14:57,614 --> 00:14:59,374
Speaker 1: do you say to those who say some of these

266
00:14:59,414 --> 00:15:03,934
Speaker 1: recommendations don't go far enough, for example not recommending universal

267
00:15:04,014 --> 00:15:07,214
Speaker 1: access to midwifree group practice which pairs women with a

268
00:15:07,254 --> 00:15:10,454
Speaker 1: known midwife so they get that continuity of care before,

269
00:15:10,614 --> 00:15:12,134
Speaker 1: during and after birth.

270
00:15:12,534 --> 00:15:17,494
Speaker 3: Look, I actually completely agree with the advocates that particular

271
00:15:17,774 --> 00:15:22,654
Speaker 3: recommendation about midwif free continuity of care with the known

272
00:15:22,734 --> 00:15:27,214
Speaker 3: provider was so important. We heard over and over and

273
00:15:27,254 --> 00:15:31,054
Speaker 3: over again that midwif free group practice models will help

274
00:15:31,254 --> 00:15:34,894
Speaker 3: prevent birth trauma. But I was really really shocked that

275
00:15:35,374 --> 00:15:39,734
Speaker 3: my recommendations around that were removed. I had already made

276
00:15:39,814 --> 00:15:44,334
Speaker 3: those recommendations I felt palatable for the government so we could.

277
00:15:44,174 --> 00:15:45,094
Speaker 4: Get some movement.

278
00:15:45,454 --> 00:15:49,694
Speaker 3: So I was extremely disappointed, and I totally understand why

279
00:15:49,814 --> 00:15:54,214
Speaker 3: advocates and particularly women who made themselves so vulnerable in

280
00:15:54,294 --> 00:15:57,854
Speaker 3: this inquiry and actually came forward, come out in the

281
00:15:57,854 --> 00:16:00,694
Speaker 3: media and say that they were also disappointed, and I

282
00:16:00,774 --> 00:16:03,494
Speaker 3: stand by them, and my message to each one of

283
00:16:03,534 --> 00:16:07,094
Speaker 3: them is that their voices were absolutely heard by me,

284
00:16:07,414 --> 00:16:10,854
Speaker 3: and I will continue to fight for every single one

285
00:16:10,934 --> 00:16:13,374
Speaker 3: of those aspects that we know and we heard loud

286
00:16:13,414 --> 00:16:15,134
Speaker 3: and clear will prevent birth trauma.

287
00:16:15,734 --> 00:16:17,574
Speaker 1: And I guess what makes a lot of people nervous

288
00:16:17,574 --> 00:16:20,294
Speaker 1: have been involved in any inquiry here in Australia in

289
00:16:20,294 --> 00:16:23,654
Speaker 1: the past, is that so much effort goes into first

290
00:16:23,774 --> 00:16:26,334
Speaker 1: getting that inquiry up in the first place, and then

291
00:16:26,734 --> 00:16:29,734
Speaker 1: the weeks and months of evidence that's given at them,

292
00:16:30,174 --> 00:16:32,534
Speaker 1: and then the full report and recommendations to come out.

293
00:16:32,694 --> 00:16:35,814
Speaker 1: Is that there's a good chance that some or all

294
00:16:35,854 --> 00:16:39,534
Speaker 1: of these recommendations will not be picked up by the

295
00:16:39,574 --> 00:16:42,134
Speaker 1: new South Wales government. Where do you think we stand

296
00:16:42,134 --> 00:16:44,734
Speaker 1: with them adapting at least some of these forty three

297
00:16:45,094 --> 00:16:45,574
Speaker 1: into law.

298
00:16:46,254 --> 00:16:48,854
Speaker 3: I think two things in regards to getting some of

299
00:16:48,894 --> 00:16:50,134
Speaker 3: these recommendations in.

300
00:16:50,374 --> 00:16:53,814
Speaker 4: I think that we will see some action from.

301
00:16:53,614 --> 00:16:56,014
Speaker 3: The government based on the fact that there has been

302
00:16:56,054 --> 00:16:59,054
Speaker 3: a significant amount of media on this inquiry and the

303
00:16:59,094 --> 00:17:02,254
Speaker 3: significant number of women who have actually bravely stepped up

304
00:17:02,254 --> 00:17:05,894
Speaker 3: and spoken out. It would be very poor for for

305
00:17:05,934 --> 00:17:09,214
Speaker 3: a government to completely ignore every single one of those voices.

306
00:17:09,214 --> 00:17:10,574
Speaker 4: So I think will see some action.

307
00:17:11,014 --> 00:17:14,614
Speaker 3: My concern is how much action, and how much action

308
00:17:14,894 --> 00:17:18,934
Speaker 3: on the most impactful areas. So my job as the

309
00:17:19,014 --> 00:17:21,934
Speaker 3: chair now is to make sure that we continue to

310
00:17:21,974 --> 00:17:25,814
Speaker 3: find new avenues, to push the government to make the

311
00:17:25,894 --> 00:17:29,574
Speaker 3: majority of those recommendations and to keep pushing forward with it.

312
00:17:29,654 --> 00:17:33,574
Speaker 3: We cannot afford for this to be swept under the carpet.

313
00:17:33,934 --> 00:17:36,334
Speaker 4: The other good advantage that we have is that we

314
00:17:36,414 --> 00:17:37,614
Speaker 4: have got global attention.

315
00:17:37,734 --> 00:17:40,734
Speaker 3: This was the first inquiry in the world into birth

316
00:17:40,774 --> 00:17:45,134
Speaker 3: trauma and that initiated an inquiry in the UK. So

317
00:17:45,374 --> 00:17:48,054
Speaker 3: this conversation is going to keep going. It's not going

318
00:17:48,094 --> 00:17:50,934
Speaker 3: to go away. My message to the New Southals government

319
00:17:50,974 --> 00:17:53,654
Speaker 3: is that they need to act urgently on this and

320
00:17:53,694 --> 00:17:57,014
Speaker 3: not hope that you accepting a few of these small

321
00:17:57,094 --> 00:18:01,254
Speaker 3: recommendations and acting on some minor areas and tweaking things

322
00:18:01,254 --> 00:18:02,814
Speaker 3: here and there is not going to be enough.

323
00:18:03,454 --> 00:18:05,614
Speaker 1: I've given a message to the New South Wales government there,

324
00:18:05,614 --> 00:18:08,414
Speaker 1: But what message do you have to the four thousand

325
00:18:08,454 --> 00:18:11,334
Speaker 1: people who made some men to this inquiry and for

326
00:18:11,414 --> 00:18:14,854
Speaker 1: all of those who bravely stepped forward and actually gave

327
00:18:14,974 --> 00:18:18,614
Speaker 1: voice to those stories during this inquiry. What message do

328
00:18:18,654 --> 00:18:20,534
Speaker 1: you have to them now that we have this report

329
00:18:20,534 --> 00:18:22,014
Speaker 1: and these recommendations in hand.

330
00:18:22,654 --> 00:18:24,254
Speaker 4: My first part is to just thank them.

331
00:18:24,494 --> 00:18:28,014
Speaker 3: I know they've made themselves vulnerable, mostly because they want

332
00:18:28,054 --> 00:18:31,454
Speaker 3: to protect other women from having to experience the same

333
00:18:31,534 --> 00:18:34,334
Speaker 3: trauma that they went through. I also want to say

334
00:18:34,414 --> 00:18:37,534
Speaker 3: I'm really sorry that the report wasn't strong enough. It

335
00:18:37,574 --> 00:18:40,894
Speaker 3: wasn't the report that I wanted either, But my commitment

336
00:18:41,054 --> 00:18:43,614
Speaker 3: as the chair of this inquiry is to hold the

337
00:18:43,654 --> 00:18:46,454
Speaker 3: government to account, is to keep making sure that this

338
00:18:46,534 --> 00:18:49,654
Speaker 3: message gets out there and that the change is pushed through,

339
00:18:49,974 --> 00:18:53,494
Speaker 3: because you know, we can't simply have an inquiry of

340
00:18:53,534 --> 00:18:56,934
Speaker 3: this size and to table or report and walk away.

341
00:18:57,374 --> 00:18:59,454
Speaker 3: We need to make sure that we continue to fight

342
00:18:59,534 --> 00:19:07,014
Speaker 3: for the change that we know will genuinely prevent birth trauma.

343
00:19:07,134 --> 00:19:09,414
Speaker 1: Hazel has put a lot of her time, effort, blood,

344
00:19:09,574 --> 00:19:12,934
Speaker 1: sweat and tears into the study, the inquiry and now

345
00:19:13,014 --> 00:19:16,374
Speaker 1: understanding this report. So what message does she have for

346
00:19:16,414 --> 00:19:17,574
Speaker 1: the new South Wales government.

347
00:19:18,014 --> 00:19:20,214
Speaker 2: What we can see from the hearings and the report

348
00:19:20,294 --> 00:19:23,774
Speaker 2: and the recommendations is that they really did listen to women,

349
00:19:23,894 --> 00:19:28,014
Speaker 2: and there are some fantastic recommendations in there, but now

350
00:19:28,094 --> 00:19:30,974
Speaker 2: they need to be implemented. We can't just see this

351
00:19:31,054 --> 00:19:34,014
Speaker 2: as another report that it just gets filed away and

352
00:19:34,014 --> 00:19:36,014
Speaker 2: people say, oh, yeah, we do that anyway, and then

353
00:19:36,054 --> 00:19:38,494
Speaker 2: don't do anything about it. You know. That's the worry

354
00:19:38,534 --> 00:19:40,974
Speaker 2: that I pick up from the consumer groups and from midwives.

355
00:19:40,974 --> 00:19:44,254
Speaker 2: It's like, what if nothing happens. So I really implore

356
00:19:44,334 --> 00:19:46,774
Speaker 2: the Newsfl's government to go, you know, we're going to

357
00:19:46,814 --> 00:19:49,054
Speaker 2: actual these recommendations. We're going to commit the funding that

358
00:19:49,174 --> 00:19:51,814
Speaker 2: is required. We're going to commit the resources that are

359
00:19:51,854 --> 00:19:56,974
Speaker 2: required because women's health really really matters. They've done so

360
00:19:57,174 --> 00:19:59,374
Speaker 2: much with this inquiry. They've done so much with these

361
00:19:59,414 --> 00:20:02,454
Speaker 2: recommendations and reports, but now we need to see the

362
00:20:02,494 --> 00:20:03,094
Speaker 2: follow through.

363
00:20:04,534 --> 00:20:06,974
Speaker 1: The quickie is produced by me Claire Murphy and our

364
00:20:07,014 --> 00:20:21,774
Speaker 1: executive producer Callie Rintol, with Audiodu Action. That's Homeline