WEBVTT - What Really Led To The Katy Perry Backlash 0:00:11.104 --> 0:00:11.424 So much. 0:00:11.464 --> 0:00:14.144 You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 0:00:14.784 --> 0:00:18.664 Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and borders 0:00:18.744 --> 0:00:26.664 that this podcast is recorded on from Mamma Mia. Welcome 0:00:26.664 --> 0:00:29.544 to The Spill, your daily pop culture fix. I'm Laura 0:00:29.624 --> 0:00:32.384 Brodnick and I'm m Vernon And on today's show, we 0:00:32.424 --> 0:00:35.944 are talking about Katie Perry's new rebrand, her new music video. 0:00:36.064 --> 0:00:38.584 There has been an avalanche. 0:00:38.024 --> 0:00:39.624 I think is the right way. That is a correct 0:00:39.624 --> 0:00:40.184 word of. 0:00:40.104 --> 0:00:42.784 Criticism about this, and we're going to delve into what's 0:00:42.824 --> 0:00:45.144 really happening, because I don't think it's as simple as 0:00:45.144 --> 0:00:46.464 she's just released a bad song. 0:00:46.504 --> 0:00:47.184 There's more to it. 0:00:47.544 --> 0:00:51.304 But first, but first, Sharon Stone posted a photo of 0:00:51.304 --> 0:00:54.944 herself on Instagram that's gone absolutely viral. She's wearing lingerie 0:00:55.024 --> 0:00:58.264 sitting like cross legged on a chair as a callback 0:00:58.304 --> 0:01:01.464 to her iconic scene in Basic Instinct, where she's wearing 0:01:01.544 --> 0:01:03.544 kind of like a white mini dress sitting in the 0:01:03.544 --> 0:01:06.824 same position being interrogated by all of these men. I 0:01:07.024 --> 0:01:10.224 personally haven't seen Basic Instinct, but it's on your list, 0:01:10.384 --> 0:01:12.904 it's on my list. But I have seen that scene. 0:01:13.264 --> 0:01:15.104 I would say one of the most famous movie scenes 0:01:15.104 --> 0:01:16.944 of all time. It's one of those movie scenes that 0:01:17.064 --> 0:01:20.264 is so strong that you can just see the even 0:01:20.304 --> 0:01:21.984 just the crop of her head and shoulders in the 0:01:21.984 --> 0:01:24.544 white dress and the way her eyes are looking in 0:01:24.544 --> 0:01:27.264 that scene, and you know exactly what movie and what 0:01:27.424 --> 0:01:30.064 iconic moment it's alluding to, Like what It's that powerful 0:01:30.104 --> 0:01:32.424 that just from a movie still you can tell what's happening. 0:01:32.184 --> 0:01:34.224 Especially because all the men are just sweating and she's 0:01:34.344 --> 0:01:36.504 just so chick and she can't yeah, and she's being 0:01:36.504 --> 0:01:39.584 interrogated and she slowly closes her legs and then puts 0:01:39.624 --> 0:01:41.904 her other leg over and there's a flash. 0:01:42.064 --> 0:01:43.904 And for everyone who wants to go and stop, like, 0:01:44.104 --> 0:01:46.064 watch that part of the movie and pause it. You 0:01:46.104 --> 0:01:48.904 can't really really see. It's like a little flash of skin. 0:01:49.144 --> 0:01:51.864 It's clear that she's not wearing any underwear. Yes, And 0:01:52.144 --> 0:01:55.104 what I didn't know when I was reading about this 0:01:55.184 --> 0:01:59.704 post that she did recently was that she actually claimed 0:01:59.824 --> 0:02:02.664 that she was tricked into not wearing any underwear because 0:02:02.664 --> 0:02:04.864 she was wearing white underwear and they were saying that 0:02:04.904 --> 0:02:06.784 it was reflecting off the lights, so she had to 0:02:06.784 --> 0:02:07.664 take her underwear off. 0:02:07.744 --> 0:02:09.384 Yeah, And that didn't come out until I think it 0:02:09.384 --> 0:02:11.584 was twenty twenty one where she released her memoir The 0:02:11.584 --> 0:02:13.344 Beauty of Living Twice, and that was one of the 0:02:13.344 --> 0:02:15.584 stories that was in it, because up until then everyone 0:02:15.624 --> 0:02:18.104 thought that she was very kind of in on the 0:02:18.144 --> 0:02:20.304 gimmick of doing that and what was happening. And then 0:02:20.344 --> 0:02:22.224 in the book she says, yeah, she's wearing underwear, and 0:02:22.264 --> 0:02:23.824 they kept saying, like, oh, can we just get one 0:02:23.904 --> 0:02:26.944 shot with the underwear off because it's reflecting the light 0:02:26.984 --> 0:02:29.024 and we're getting this like weird flash every time the 0:02:29.104 --> 0:02:31.384 camera goes, but I promise you we won't see anything. 0:02:31.744 --> 0:02:33.424 So she did it, and then that's the take that 0:02:33.584 --> 0:02:35.904 was in the movie, and the filmmakers have said that's 0:02:35.984 --> 0:02:38.784 not true and kind of refuted what she was saying. 0:02:38.784 --> 0:02:40.744 But she's really stuck to that story over the last 0:02:40.784 --> 0:02:41.304 couple of years. 0:02:41.344 --> 0:02:43.464 I love how she's stuck to that story, but like, 0:02:43.824 --> 0:02:47.424 hasn't let that take over the entire storyline of that 0:02:47.544 --> 0:02:50.544 soh yeah. Like the fact that she's recreated this position 0:02:50.664 --> 0:02:53.024 so many times and now she's in the sixties and 0:02:53.024 --> 0:02:55.464 she still looks so amazing, and the fact that she's 0:02:55.504 --> 0:02:57.784 just like given herself back the narrative I think is 0:02:57.864 --> 0:02:58.264 really cool. 0:02:58.344 --> 0:03:14.184 Nana Nana. 0:03:14.824 --> 0:03:18.304 So when I first heard the song, I was like, Okay, 0:03:18.344 --> 0:03:23.504 I understand. It's obviously very satire. It feels very poignant 0:03:23.624 --> 0:03:26.664 on like what feminism is. It's pretty much just talking 0:03:26.664 --> 0:03:28.544 about feminism as being feminism. 0:03:29.024 --> 0:03:31.544 I picture the song because I quite like the chorus. 0:03:31.744 --> 0:03:33.144 It's very damn I. 0:03:33.144 --> 0:03:35.744 Kind of like it too. It took me a while. 0:03:35.824 --> 0:03:38.624 I think the magic of pop songs is that their repetitiveness. 0:03:38.624 --> 0:03:40.424 A lot of the time, if you hear a song 0:03:40.464 --> 0:03:42.424 on the radio, like old school how we used to 0:03:42.544 --> 0:03:44.744 hear on the radio like millions of times a day, 0:03:44.984 --> 0:03:46.824 and it weaves its way into your head and that's 0:03:46.824 --> 0:03:48.944 why you start to like it. And I've got to say, 0:03:48.984 --> 0:03:50.944 listen to this song so many times because I actually 0:03:50.984 --> 0:03:52.784 heard it for the rest of the world, not to 0:03:53.584 --> 0:03:55.864 you did hear before this, Not to you know, make 0:03:55.864 --> 0:03:59.024 anyone jealous, But yes. I went into Universal Music Offices, 0:03:59.424 --> 0:04:01.664 very close to Mummea offices actually, for a little pre 0:04:01.784 --> 0:04:04.344 listening party before the song came out. And I listened 0:04:04.344 --> 0:04:05.864 to it in a room with a bunch of people 0:04:05.904 --> 0:04:07.064 and champagne and stuff. 0:04:06.864 --> 0:04:08.064 And people like bopping along. 0:04:08.144 --> 0:04:11.344 And my first thought listening to it is it sounds 0:04:11.864 --> 0:04:14.904 like a song that would play at the beginning of 0:04:14.944 --> 0:04:17.704 like an early two thousands rom com in terms. 0:04:17.504 --> 0:04:20.544 Of what the exact same note literally mine was like, 0:04:20.664 --> 0:04:24.064 so the rom com start, Yeah, she breaks up with 0:04:24.144 --> 0:04:25.704 her terrible toxic. 0:04:26.264 --> 0:04:29.504 A beautiful apartment in New York and she put five. 0:04:29.384 --> 0:04:31.344 Years and then she's like walking on the street and 0:04:31.344 --> 0:04:32.784 her friends are there and like. 0:04:32.704 --> 0:04:34.784 And she's whipping off her sunglasses and going into her 0:04:34.824 --> 0:04:36.864 like publishing job in New York where she makes it so. 0:04:37.064 --> 0:04:39.664 Exactly we need, we need someone to make a rom 0:04:39.664 --> 0:04:41.424 commented Star Kate Hudson. 0:04:41.704 --> 0:04:43.984 Anyway, Apart from that, like, it also sounds kind of 0:04:44.104 --> 0:04:47.264 very eighties and but I can also understand the criticism 0:04:47.384 --> 0:04:50.504 of it that people think it sounds a bit manufactured. 0:04:50.744 --> 0:04:53.624 Yes, And I think that's what the original criticism was 0:04:53.704 --> 0:04:55.904 for the song when it came out, and she kind 0:04:55.904 --> 0:04:58.784 of doubled down with the music videos, like kind of 0:04:58.784 --> 0:05:02.264 showing that it very much is satire. So before we 0:05:02.304 --> 0:05:04.704 go into like all the commentary behind the music video, 0:05:04.744 --> 0:05:06.904 I just want to take you through some of the symbolism. 0:05:06.944 --> 0:05:07.904 Oh yes, within it. 0:05:08.104 --> 0:05:11.224 I did a big investigative research piece to this. So 0:05:11.304 --> 0:05:14.304 it starts off with a construction site. There's a sign 0:05:14.344 --> 0:05:16.664 that says men at work and then they write wo, 0:05:16.904 --> 0:05:20.504 so women at work. They then do the iconic scene 0:05:20.544 --> 0:05:23.464 of lunch atop a skyscraper that everyone does. 0:05:23.904 --> 0:05:26.504 Yes, well, that was an image that came out that 0:05:26.624 --> 0:05:29.064 became this very famous image of these men on a 0:05:29.104 --> 0:05:32.384 big construction being raised above New York having lunch and 0:05:32.424 --> 0:05:34.944 it looks so dangerous and exciting, and it came out 0:05:34.944 --> 0:05:36.304 it was like a setup. 0:05:35.904 --> 0:05:39.344 Shot as promotion for the sky scrape. Yeah, but it works. 0:05:39.424 --> 0:05:39.904 It worked. 0:05:40.264 --> 0:05:43.504 She cause plays as Josie the Riveter, which is like 0:05:43.544 --> 0:05:47.144 the iconic women's World War two. Women can do anything. 0:05:47.224 --> 0:05:48.904 Yeah, if you've seen that picture around, women can do 0:05:48.944 --> 0:05:52.024 anything where she's like making the fear and head Yeah. 0:05:52.104 --> 0:05:55.144 Yeah, she's drinking whiskey for women. 0:05:55.384 --> 0:05:55.944 I liked that. 0:05:56.064 --> 0:05:57.824 I thought that was really funny because it's a really 0:05:57.864 --> 0:06:00.584 interesting nod to all these products that are for women, 0:06:00.744 --> 0:06:03.344 like a women's razor or a women's cup or a 0:06:03.384 --> 0:06:05.504 women's anything, and then you put a little bit of 0:06:05.504 --> 0:06:07.224 pink on it and you have to pay more money 0:06:07.264 --> 0:06:08.984 for it. So I actually thought that was because you 0:06:09.024 --> 0:06:10.784 know that women's whiskey is more expensive. 0:06:10.824 --> 0:06:14.944 And then there's like a lot of beauty products featured. 0:06:15.024 --> 0:06:18.424 She has like sex toys, she's got like ger she's 0:06:18.464 --> 0:06:21.184 got like little led face masks. We also did a 0:06:21.224 --> 0:06:24.104 piece on Mamma Mia called the Hidden Details you might 0:06:24.104 --> 0:06:26.144 have Missed in Katie Perry's music video, and I couldn't 0:06:26.184 --> 0:06:28.264 read it without laughing. It's so funny. I want to 0:06:28.264 --> 0:06:30.784 read you a little bit. It said, from hammering to 0:06:30.904 --> 0:06:34.984 dancing to completing an extensive routine. The first version of 0:06:35.064 --> 0:06:37.504 Katie we see in the music video has a lot 0:06:37.584 --> 0:06:41.344 going on. When an enormous anvil inexplicably drops on the 0:06:41.384 --> 0:06:44.864 construction site version of Katie, she's reborn down on the 0:06:44.904 --> 0:06:47.824 streets now wearing a white bikini and bionic legs. 0:06:48.224 --> 0:06:49.704 I mean that storytelling. 0:06:50.344 --> 0:06:51.504 It is storytelling. 0:06:51.784 --> 0:06:54.424 So she kind of becomes like this bionic woman. She's 0:06:54.464 --> 0:06:57.064 seen like with the petrol pump in her thigh, like 0:06:57.144 --> 0:07:00.024 as she's refueling herself, which I thought was very interesting. 0:07:00.504 --> 0:07:03.504 Tricia Petus, who's a famous YouTuber, is suddenly there. 0:07:03.544 --> 0:07:05.224 She's pulling a truck on by back. Wait. 0:07:05.304 --> 0:07:07.504 Tricia Peters is the one who thought the queen was 0:07:07.544 --> 0:07:10.064 going to be reincarnated as her daughter. 0:07:10.344 --> 0:07:12.544 No She's the one who we thought the queen was 0:07:12.544 --> 0:07:14.704 gonna be a recinded in her daughter, and then it happened. 0:07:14.944 --> 0:07:17.224 Oh sorry for that. 0:07:17.384 --> 0:07:18.664 I don't want to mess up history. 0:07:18.704 --> 0:07:20.224 There's also this other line that I have to read 0:07:20.264 --> 0:07:22.944 because it's so funny. In the final scenes, Katie joins 0:07:22.944 --> 0:07:25.784 an influencer to film a TikTok dance before stealing her 0:07:25.824 --> 0:07:28.624 ring light and jumping on a helicopter. As the influencer 0:07:28.704 --> 0:07:31.384 yells who are you to the singer, she lifts the 0:07:31.464 --> 0:07:33.864 ring light, shaped like a gender symbol for female, into 0:07:33.944 --> 0:07:36.064 the air and screams, I am Katy Perry. 0:07:36.584 --> 0:07:37.664 That's factually correct. 0:07:37.904 --> 0:07:40.344 I'm just gonna say I thought it was so good, 0:07:40.424 --> 0:07:43.544 Like I love the music video. Not everyone did, in fact, 0:07:43.624 --> 0:07:46.384 most people didn't, But I just thought it was the 0:07:46.424 --> 0:07:50.384 funniest way to kind of show how feminism has developed 0:07:50.384 --> 0:07:52.984 into this big thing in modern day that now everyone's 0:07:53.024 --> 0:07:55.424 kind of jumping on a bandwagon forgetting the real meaning 0:07:55.504 --> 0:07:55.944 behind it. 0:07:56.184 --> 0:07:59.024 I didn't completely understand what she was trying to say there, 0:07:59.064 --> 0:08:00.544 and I mean I don't think it was anything when 0:08:00.544 --> 0:08:02.064 there was meant to be a hidden secret. It was 0:08:02.104 --> 0:08:04.664 all very kind of heavy handed in terms of like 0:08:04.904 --> 0:08:07.024 this is what a woman is and feminism gets pulled 0:08:07.024 --> 0:08:10.264 away and so but I just think with Katy Perry, 0:08:10.704 --> 0:08:15.744 sometimes satire isn't where she excels. She's kind of almost 0:08:15.784 --> 0:08:18.224 better doing that when she forges her own path and 0:08:18.264 --> 0:08:24.144 does that more flippant and frothy, almost animation, unrealistic, very 0:08:24.224 --> 0:08:27.024 stylized art form, which I think a lot of people 0:08:27.064 --> 0:08:28.624 are saying, like, oh, she was never that popular, she's 0:08:28.704 --> 0:08:30.224 now that good, and like she was, she was one 0:08:30.224 --> 0:08:32.544 of the top selling female artists in the world for 0:08:32.584 --> 0:08:36.704 a very long time, and she had a very unique 0:08:36.864 --> 0:08:39.544 look about everything she did. And I think the fact 0:08:39.584 --> 0:08:41.544 that she just sold out a whole bunch of Las 0:08:41.624 --> 0:08:45.424 Vegas residencies with Katy Perry's World, like her show, and 0:08:45.464 --> 0:08:48.184 that her signature is very telling, and so I feel 0:08:48.184 --> 0:08:50.464 like she tried to tap into that here and it 0:08:50.584 --> 0:08:53.864 just maybe slightly missed the mark a little bit. But 0:08:53.904 --> 0:08:56.224 the foundation she was building on is there, I guess, 0:08:56.264 --> 0:08:57.064 is what I'm trying to say. 0:08:57.224 --> 0:08:59.744 There were a lot of brutal headlines far from nice. 0:08:59.784 --> 0:09:02.144 I want to read some out. We don't want to 0:09:02.144 --> 0:09:05.464 live in Katy Perry's women's world. A fail feminist anthem 0:09:05.944 --> 0:09:08.544 is the feminism in the room with us. Katy Perry 0:09:08.584 --> 0:09:10.704 just flopped so hard can she cover? 0:09:11.784 --> 0:09:12.544 And she recovered. 0:09:12.624 --> 0:09:14.464 Well, that's what we're gonna get into next, because obviously 0:09:14.464 --> 0:09:16.304 she's got a new album coming, there's a lot more 0:09:16.304 --> 0:09:18.664 coming from her, and that's what everyone's asking is, we're 0:09:18.704 --> 0:09:19.504 too from here. 0:09:21.664 --> 0:09:25.704 You go, girl, you were born to shine, and we're 0:09:25.744 --> 0:09:30.184 kind of just having fun being a bit sarcastic with it. 0:09:30.184 --> 0:09:36.264 It's very slapstick and very on the nose, and with 0:09:36.424 --> 0:09:42.144 this set, it's like, oh, we're like, we're not about 0:09:42.264 --> 0:09:43.264 the mail gates, but. 0:09:43.184 --> 0:09:45.624 We really are about the male gaze, and. 0:09:45.584 --> 0:09:48.144 We're really overplaying it and on the nose. 0:09:48.384 --> 0:09:50.544 I think one of the reasons why people have responded 0:09:50.584 --> 0:09:53.224 so negatively to Katie Perry's new song, apart from the 0:09:53.264 --> 0:09:56.824 fact that a lot of music critics just genuinely didn't 0:09:56.904 --> 0:09:59.064 like the material and that's their job to write their 0:09:59.104 --> 0:10:00.584 thoughts and we don't want to take that away and 0:10:00.624 --> 0:10:03.064 have them hunted down like Taylor Swift fans too, like 0:10:03.104 --> 0:10:05.504 you've still got to have that musical journalism. But I 0:10:05.504 --> 0:10:08.064 think there was so much build up to it and 0:10:08.384 --> 0:10:11.104 so much pipe around, like Katie peer, he's coming back 0:10:11.104 --> 0:10:12.904 and she's got this rebrand, and that is a good 0:10:12.944 --> 0:10:14.424 thing in many ways, but I think a lot of 0:10:14.424 --> 0:10:17.944 people also love to see a very famous woman fail 0:10:18.144 --> 0:10:20.424 and have a very public misstep, and I think a 0:10:20.464 --> 0:10:22.504 lot of it was linked to that in a way, 0:10:22.864 --> 0:10:25.784 because she finished up on American Idol, where she'd been 0:10:25.784 --> 0:10:28.304 a judge for a long time, and then after Las Vegas, 0:10:28.384 --> 0:10:30.344 there was like the safety of that residency of like 0:10:30.384 --> 0:10:32.064 you know, you only saw it if you had a ticket, 0:10:32.344 --> 0:10:35.304 and fans really loved it, and because she hadn't had 0:10:35.344 --> 0:10:36.904 a hit song for a long time and had been 0:10:36.904 --> 0:10:39.464 like many years since she released her last album, and 0:10:39.544 --> 0:10:41.944 she was also really hyping like this is a new sound, 0:10:41.944 --> 0:10:44.024 this is a new meat. And one of the things 0:10:44.024 --> 0:10:46.024 I thought was really interesting was that she had a 0:10:46.184 --> 0:10:50.904 very fashion makeover leading into launching this song, and she 0:10:50.944 --> 0:10:53.104 was at a lot of different events in these like 0:10:53.304 --> 0:10:57.424 really amazing less pop princess, like no big white boots 0:10:57.424 --> 0:11:00.224 and sparkly dress and no ice cream boobs or high 0:11:00.224 --> 0:11:03.304 ponytails or anything like that. It was much sleeker, much 0:11:03.304 --> 0:11:05.984 more fashionable. She actually has a young Australian stylist called 0:11:05.984 --> 0:11:09.304 Taddiana Waterford, who's done all of her fashion makeover and 0:11:09.344 --> 0:11:11.584 styles her. And I think even when she was like 0:11:11.584 --> 0:11:13.784 events of like Vogue World and stuff, people were talking 0:11:13.824 --> 0:11:15.744 about how amazing she looked. And she also had all 0:11:15.784 --> 0:11:19.904 the lyrics to Women's World on a cage going in 0:11:20.264 --> 0:11:22.744 and people were also just talking about how amazing she looked. 0:11:22.744 --> 0:11:24.584 And I've got to say, like her body does look 0:11:24.624 --> 0:11:27.584 a bit different in terms of like she looks like 0:11:27.624 --> 0:11:29.744 slightly smaller. It's that whole thing of like a woman 0:11:29.744 --> 0:11:32.304 can have a big makeover as long as she looks 0:11:32.304 --> 0:11:35.344 really ripped as well doing it. And so I think 0:11:35.384 --> 0:11:37.144 she was trying to tick every box of like this 0:11:37.224 --> 0:11:39.024 is what I know people like. They like a woman's 0:11:39.024 --> 0:11:41.384 body to look different, they like her to start dressing 0:11:41.424 --> 0:11:44.104 more high fashion, they like her to talk about now 0:11:44.184 --> 0:11:46.224 I'm a mother, now I'm this. Like she was doing 0:11:46.264 --> 0:11:49.344 everything right, but it's like all those things together put 0:11:49.384 --> 0:11:51.184 people offside before they even heard the song. 0:11:51.544 --> 0:11:54.184 Yeah, and she I remember her on TikTok falling into 0:11:54.184 --> 0:11:57.024 that trope of is she fashionable or is she just skinny? 0:11:57.464 --> 0:11:57.824 Yeah? 0:11:57.824 --> 0:12:00.864 And I think that, I mean she's always been super skinny. 0:12:01.344 --> 0:12:04.944 We're talking in these ridiculous entertainment things that we have 0:12:05.024 --> 0:12:06.944 for women at the moment around bodies and stuff which 0:12:06.984 --> 0:12:08.664 has just gone off the rails, and she can't be 0:12:08.664 --> 0:12:09.744 held responsible for that. 0:12:09.904 --> 0:12:11.824 But she also, like a lot of other artists like 0:12:11.864 --> 0:12:15.384 Taylor Swift, like does a full makeover rebrand for every 0:12:15.424 --> 0:12:17.744 album you put out. And I think I didn't read 0:12:17.744 --> 0:12:19.304 too much into it because I just saw it as 0:12:19.344 --> 0:12:22.144 like another era of Katy Perry, which is why I 0:12:22.184 --> 0:12:24.544 really enjoyed the ending of that music video where she 0:12:24.664 --> 0:12:26.944 was like, I'm Katy Perry, because she has talked about 0:12:26.944 --> 0:12:30.224 how this music in particular is the most. 0:12:29.944 --> 0:12:31.864 Like her, yes, and because her real name is what 0:12:31.904 --> 0:12:35.544 Catherine Hudson, Tate Hudson, So she's like just referring that 0:12:35.624 --> 0:12:37.904 I am Katy Perry right now, but in real life, 0:12:37.944 --> 0:12:41.304 I am had Friend Hudson. I think the other thing 0:12:41.344 --> 0:12:43.784 that people have really called out, and this is like 0:12:43.824 --> 0:12:46.224 a serious thing that I think deserves a lot of attention, 0:12:46.864 --> 0:12:49.824 is that in this new album there's a lot of 0:12:49.864 --> 0:12:53.304 collaboration with Doctor Luke, who's an old collaborator of hers 0:12:53.304 --> 0:12:55.224 and actually worked on a lot of her big hits 0:12:55.224 --> 0:12:57.144 in the past. They haven't worked together for a while, 0:12:57.424 --> 0:12:59.864 but they've come back together for this new album. And 0:13:00.064 --> 0:13:03.144 why people are upset about that is that with doctor Luke. 0:13:03.224 --> 0:13:07.944 In twenty fourteen, Kesher sued him for sexual assault and battery, 0:13:08.064 --> 0:13:12.064 sexual harassment, gender violence, and emotional abuse. Doctor Luke always 0:13:12.064 --> 0:13:15.504 denied the claims, and then he counter seed Kesha for defamation, 0:13:16.104 --> 0:13:20.064 alleging that Kesher, her mother, and her management had fabricated 0:13:20.104 --> 0:13:22.664 all of these claims to get out of a record 0:13:22.664 --> 0:13:25.824 contract with him that she had previously signed. This went 0:13:25.864 --> 0:13:27.944 on for a long time, and Kesha has spoken about 0:13:27.944 --> 0:13:29.784 why it sort of kept her for releasing music for 0:13:29.824 --> 0:13:33.144 a long time. And then in twenty sixteen a judge 0:13:33.144 --> 0:13:37.144 dismissed all of Kesh's claims. Kesher also made allegations that 0:13:37.224 --> 0:13:40.144 doctor Luke had raped Katy Perry, which Katy Perry and 0:13:40.224 --> 0:13:43.384 doctor Luke have always denied, and then in twenty twenty 0:13:43.424 --> 0:13:46.584 a judge rule that Kesher had made defamatory comments by 0:13:46.624 --> 0:13:49.864 saying that, and so in twenty twenty three, Luke and 0:13:49.944 --> 0:13:54.544 Kesher settled this defamation claim. So very lot yeah, so 0:13:54.664 --> 0:13:57.784 a lot of really upsetting facts and allegations in there. 0:13:58.144 --> 0:13:59.944 It should also be said that like doctor Luke, has 0:13:59.984 --> 0:14:02.824 never been convictive of anything, but across the music industry, 0:14:03.184 --> 0:14:04.944 there have been a lot of allegations from a lot 0:14:04.984 --> 0:14:07.464 of different people, and there's this thought that people don't 0:14:07.544 --> 0:14:10.464 across the industry, particularly women, don't want to work with 0:14:10.544 --> 0:14:14.144 him anymore. So when Katy Perry released a feminist anthem 0:14:14.264 --> 0:14:17.344 called Woman's World and she was a collaborator with this 0:14:17.544 --> 0:14:20.504 man who had had these accusations against him, a lot 0:14:20.544 --> 0:14:22.784 of people thought that those two things shouldn't go together 0:14:22.864 --> 0:14:24.104 and really judged her for that. 0:14:24.024 --> 0:14:26.784 Which is a fair criticism. And I'm surprised that she 0:14:26.904 --> 0:14:30.744 hasn't commented on that in particular because I'm also surprised 0:14:30.744 --> 0:14:32.544 why she chose him in the first place, Like she's 0:14:32.624 --> 0:14:37.504 Katy Perry. 0:14:35.544 --> 0:14:37.584 Yeah, I know, not just sort of defending her at all. 0:14:37.664 --> 0:14:39.504 I think that that sort of this conversation is an 0:14:39.504 --> 0:14:41.304 important one to have. I just think we don't know 0:14:41.664 --> 0:14:43.784 in terms of like did she still have a contract 0:14:43.824 --> 0:14:45.584 with him, Like you know, sometimes you sign a certain 0:14:45.584 --> 0:14:47.824 amount of albums you have to do with someone. Also, 0:14:47.904 --> 0:14:49.784 a lot of her most popular songs have been in 0:14:49.824 --> 0:14:51.824 collaboration with him. So if you're wanting to have this 0:14:51.904 --> 0:14:54.904 kind of big comeback, you maybe sometimes would defer to 0:14:54.944 --> 0:14:56.544 the person you'd worked with in the past. So I 0:14:56.584 --> 0:14:57.504 just think it's very laated. 0:14:57.624 --> 0:14:59.424 I don't think it would have been as big of 0:14:59.464 --> 0:15:03.104 a deal if the album was about something else than feminism. 0:15:03.304 --> 0:15:05.864 Yeah, but because it is, it just feels a bit gross. 0:15:05.944 --> 0:15:07.344 I don't think it would have been a big of 0:15:07.384 --> 0:15:10.464 a deal for people if people liked the song. I 0:15:10.504 --> 0:15:12.984 know that sounds really simplistic, but if people like a 0:15:13.024 --> 0:15:14.704 song or a piece of art or anything like that, 0:15:14.864 --> 0:15:17.264 you can be forgiven nearly anything in the entertainm industry, 0:15:17.264 --> 0:15:19.384 Like we've seen it time and time again. It's a 0:15:19.424 --> 0:15:21.944 fair criticism, but I think there's a small group of 0:15:21.944 --> 0:15:24.784 people that are really kind of were not going to 0:15:24.984 --> 0:15:26.704 like it. In any case, there's been a. 0:15:26.664 --> 0:15:29.504 Lot of commentary talking about how she's stuck in twenty ten, 0:15:29.984 --> 0:15:32.144 which is kind of where she had like her big 0:15:32.304 --> 0:15:35.504 I guess, like her big shot at stardom. It was like, well, 0:15:35.544 --> 0:15:38.224 after I kissed a girl during her teenage dream kind 0:15:38.264 --> 0:15:41.024 of years. Yeah, and I do remember that. What this 0:15:41.144 --> 0:15:43.584 music video reminded me of is her music video she 0:15:43.744 --> 0:15:48.104 did for TGIF Last Friday Night with Rebecca Black. 0:15:48.224 --> 0:15:49.784 Oh, that's a great music video. 0:15:50.064 --> 0:15:52.424 It just reminded me how it was during that time 0:15:52.504 --> 0:15:55.664 where Rebecca Black put out Friday she got absolutely slammed 0:15:55.744 --> 0:15:57.624 on the Internet. I think it was the first form 0:15:57.664 --> 0:16:00.424 of like severe internet trolling we've ever seen, and she 0:16:00.584 --> 0:16:02.384 was like thirteen years old. She was just doing it 0:16:02.424 --> 0:16:06.064 for fun. Katie Perry made a song called Last Friday Night, 0:16:06.304 --> 0:16:09.264 had Rebecca Black in the music video and literally rebranded 0:16:09.384 --> 0:16:12.304 Rebecca blackause that song just went off, and it felt 0:16:12.304 --> 0:16:14.064 like she was trying to do the same thing for 0:16:14.224 --> 0:16:16.144 Tricia Patus in this music video. 0:16:16.344 --> 0:16:18.984 Yeah, she's always been really good at tapping into internet memes, 0:16:19.024 --> 0:16:21.784 internet culture, whether it's bringing people who have had like 0:16:21.824 --> 0:16:24.584 a viral TikTok on something on stage or something like 0:16:24.624 --> 0:16:26.784 that back in the day bringing them into her music video. 0:16:27.224 --> 0:16:29.864 That's the thing. It's like she's doing almost everything right, 0:16:29.904 --> 0:16:32.424 but it's just not landing. And it's interesting why it's 0:16:32.424 --> 0:16:34.584 not landing for her, but it is when you look 0:16:34.624 --> 0:16:38.264 around the other pop stars that we're really gravitating towards 0:16:38.304 --> 0:16:40.944 at the moment. It's like Chapelmarone has blown up so 0:16:41.104 --> 0:16:43.824 much and her style is so obviously I think like 0:16:43.864 --> 0:16:46.704 her current songs are better than Katie Pere's new song. 0:16:46.784 --> 0:16:49.864 But also it's this very kind of like hyper feminized, 0:16:49.944 --> 0:16:53.744 like pop star, very girlhood music and we're loving it. 0:16:53.824 --> 0:16:56.664 And then I think like Sabrina Carpenter is the most 0:16:56.704 --> 0:17:00.424 intense throwback to an old pop star era of like 0:17:00.464 --> 0:17:03.784 a tiny blonde woman dancing on the stage, polypood dance 0:17:03.824 --> 0:17:05.864 around the stage, and a cute little pop star outfits 0:17:05.904 --> 0:17:09.024 singing silly little songs. Like that's so retro, but it 0:17:09.224 --> 0:17:11.144 feels like it's really hitting at the moment. 0:17:11.144 --> 0:17:15.704 And Charlie XX well, like they're all three different pop stars, 0:17:15.904 --> 0:17:18.904 and like they're all pop stars but in three different categories. 0:17:19.304 --> 0:17:21.824 And it feels like what's interesting with them is that 0:17:21.864 --> 0:17:24.544 they've been doing music for a long time, but they've 0:17:24.744 --> 0:17:28.104 never changed themselves for a new album, Like they constantly 0:17:28.104 --> 0:17:31.024 stick to like what they know, what they love, Like 0:17:31.224 --> 0:17:32.384 I think a lot of I've seen a lot of 0:17:32.384 --> 0:17:34.904 memes with them comparing them to the Powerpuff Girls, like 0:17:34.944 --> 0:17:38.584 shapeul Roan and then Serena Carpenter is like cute c girlye. 0:17:38.664 --> 0:17:42.264 Charlie XCX is like sexy girly, and then Katy Perry 0:17:42.304 --> 0:17:44.784 is just like constantly trying to evolve, to keep up, 0:17:44.824 --> 0:17:46.864 and I feel like she can't keep up right now. 0:17:46.984 --> 0:17:50.384 Yeah, maybe like she's slightly mischarged turn her team. They 0:17:50.424 --> 0:17:53.184 think we want this big feminist anthem, which also sounds 0:17:53.184 --> 0:17:54.824 like it's been made for TikTok, And we know that's 0:17:54.864 --> 0:17:56.584 how artists get their songs play at the moment if 0:17:56.584 --> 0:17:58.704 people sample the song on TikTok. So it feels like 0:17:58.744 --> 0:18:00.624