WEBVTT - An Assassination In Broad Daylight. And What Happened Next. 0:00:08.234 --> 0:00:10.914 You're listening to a Mother and Mere podcast. 0:00:16.194 --> 0:00:19.073 Welcome to mum mea out loud What women are actually 0:00:19.114 --> 0:00:22.514 talking about on Monday, the fifteenth of September. I am 0:00:22.594 --> 0:00:23.913 Jesse Stevens. 0:00:23.634 --> 0:00:25.834 I'm me and Friedman because hollywaen Right is sick. 0:00:25.994 --> 0:00:26.954 I'm Amelia Last. 0:00:27.514 --> 0:00:31.314 And here's what's on our agenda for today. The assassination 0:00:31.474 --> 0:00:34.754 of Charlie Kirk in broad daylight, the aftermath and what 0:00:34.793 --> 0:00:35.594 it all means. 0:00:35.914 --> 0:00:38.994 Plus Prince Harry went back to the UK last week 0:00:39.114 --> 0:00:41.194 and it has changed everything. 0:00:41.994 --> 0:00:44.754 And what is a mayor walk? And can doing one 0:00:44.994 --> 0:00:48.074 transform my mood? But first we have to talk about 0:00:48.193 --> 0:00:51.833 Charlie Kirk. I just want to obviously start by saying 0:00:51.954 --> 0:00:56.154 how horrifying it was to hear, and a lot of 0:00:56.394 --> 0:00:58.954 out louders will have seen or will have had people 0:00:58.994 --> 0:01:02.034 in their household, friends and family and kids who saw 0:01:02.554 --> 0:01:05.674 the whole footage of a thirty one year old man 0:01:06.234 --> 0:01:10.354 being a sated in front of thousands of people in 0:01:10.434 --> 0:01:13.674 broad daylight while he was talking on a college campus. 0:01:14.514 --> 0:01:17.434 And I didn't actually know who Charlie Kirk was, and 0:01:17.514 --> 0:01:19.234 so I was trying to I felt like I was 0:01:19.234 --> 0:01:21.994 playing catch up because I was like, what just happened? 0:01:22.834 --> 0:01:23.754 Who is this guy? 0:01:23.914 --> 0:01:27.074 And my teenagers were like, you don't know who Charlie 0:01:27.154 --> 0:01:27.554 Kirk is? 0:01:27.594 --> 0:01:27.714 Oh? 0:01:27.794 --> 0:01:28.154 Yeah, No. 0:01:28.234 --> 0:01:31.354 He was very familiar to young people because he was 0:01:31.754 --> 0:01:35.034 all over TikTok and had started this movement where he 0:01:35.114 --> 0:01:37.714 sort of goes on college campuses and debates people. But 0:01:37.794 --> 0:01:40.394 I didn't know who he was, and so all I 0:01:40.594 --> 0:01:44.154 was reeling from was the shock. And my kids friends 0:01:44.154 --> 0:01:47.234 were messaging them telling them to be careful on social 0:01:47.274 --> 0:01:50.154 media because some of their friends had seen the full video. 0:01:50.554 --> 0:01:53.714 I've got friends with primary school age children who saw 0:01:53.714 --> 0:01:57.074 it because within you know, seemingly minutes of the attack, 0:01:57.514 --> 0:02:00.314 it was circulating everywhere. Every second reel you would see 0:02:00.314 --> 0:02:04.434 on TikTok and every second Instagram post was this incredibly 0:02:04.514 --> 0:02:06.034 violent footage of a man being murdered. 0:02:06.114 --> 0:02:08.714 Essentially, how did you guys feel when you heard? 0:02:09.114 --> 0:02:09.274 Well? 0:02:09.314 --> 0:02:12.194 I think I had two reactions. It was really upsetting 0:02:12.234 --> 0:02:14.434 to think about this man who has two young children 0:02:14.714 --> 0:02:17.834 being killed and seeing that footage is something that is 0:02:17.874 --> 0:02:20.514 really hard to take. But then the second thing that 0:02:21.034 --> 0:02:23.034 was why it really hit me is because it's an 0:02:23.034 --> 0:02:26.834 act of political violence. And remember when Trump was almost 0:02:26.874 --> 0:02:29.474 assassinated a year ago, there was an attempt on his life. 0:02:29.794 --> 0:02:32.754 When I heard that news, I burst into tears because 0:02:32.794 --> 0:02:37.474 there's something so uniquely disturbing about the idea of someone 0:02:37.554 --> 0:02:41.114 being killed for what they say, and it makes us 0:02:41.114 --> 0:02:42.274 all feel unsafe. 0:02:42.394 --> 0:02:45.794 I think I agree with you. I found it really shocking. 0:02:45.874 --> 0:02:50.354 I found the way that the events transpired sort of 0:02:50.674 --> 0:02:53.154 in real time from the other side of the world, 0:02:53.514 --> 0:02:56.914 quite unusual, in that we had the President of the 0:02:56.994 --> 0:03:00.434 United States declaring him dead before anyone else knew that 0:03:00.594 --> 0:03:03.194 was the case. We'd seen the footage, people didn't know 0:03:03.234 --> 0:03:04.154 if he died or not. 0:03:04.354 --> 0:03:06.234 And then by the time I came to the story, 0:03:06.274 --> 0:03:08.594 it was all you must have been up earlier than 0:03:08.634 --> 0:03:08.994 I was here. 0:03:09.154 --> 0:03:10.634 You did know who Charlie Kirk was. 0:03:10.834 --> 0:03:13.914 Yeah, I was very familiar with Charlie Kirk. He's been 0:03:13.994 --> 0:03:17.154 all over my Instagram and TikTok for twelve months. As 0:03:17.234 --> 0:03:20.554 you say, he's thirty one. He's widely credited as the 0:03:20.674 --> 0:03:24.154 guy who is very much responsible for getting the younger 0:03:24.274 --> 0:03:28.194 vote to galvanize around Trump. There is a very convincing 0:03:28.274 --> 0:03:30.194 argument that Trump would not have been elected if it 0:03:30.234 --> 0:03:30.714 weren't for child. 0:03:30.874 --> 0:03:33.354 I did not know that he was that significant. 0:03:33.514 --> 0:03:35.594 Yeah, and so Charlie Kirk, just to give you a 0:03:35.634 --> 0:03:39.674 little bit more background, he was not simply a conservative influencer, 0:03:39.754 --> 0:03:42.674 like he was in with Donald Trump and in with 0:03:42.754 --> 0:03:47.714 Donald Trump's family. So do you remember the false reports 0:03:47.914 --> 0:03:51.554 about eating family pets Haitians eating family pets around the 0:03:51.554 --> 0:03:53.074 time of one of the debates. 0:03:52.674 --> 0:03:52.994 Yea. 0:03:54.434 --> 0:03:54.674 The dog. 0:03:54.914 --> 0:03:58.834 Yes, So Charlie Kirk was instrumental in perpetuating that myth, 0:03:59.394 --> 0:04:02.634 Like he was so on the Internet that he had 0:04:02.634 --> 0:04:05.994 the power to basically go, this is the story we're 0:04:05.994 --> 0:04:08.594 going to tell, and he handle he was. 0:04:08.554 --> 0:04:10.234 Which was a completely untrue. 0:04:09.914 --> 0:04:14.114 Story, completely untrue. So he basically had a handle on 0:04:14.434 --> 0:04:17.833 the young conservative movement and in terms of getting Trump 0:04:17.834 --> 0:04:20.394 in office in both twenty sixteen and twenty twenty four, 0:04:20.993 --> 0:04:23.674 there's a through line with Charlie Kirk, like he started 0:04:23.753 --> 0:04:26.433 up in twenty twelve and was like, let's make conservative 0:04:26.474 --> 0:04:30.194 politics cool again. Let's go and own the Libs. And 0:04:30.553 --> 0:04:34.313 he was able to galvanize this whole generation of people 0:04:34.714 --> 0:04:38.513 and be like, we're for real American values. Hahna. Social 0:04:38.594 --> 0:04:41.914 media in a way that was very new, and this 0:04:42.154 --> 0:04:44.553 debate platform that we were talking about a few months 0:04:44.553 --> 0:04:48.433 ago he popularized that lately. Yes, he was the guy. 0:04:48.513 --> 0:04:51.313 That's what Turning Point USA is, which he co founded. 0:04:51.714 --> 0:04:55.553 It was about educating young people on conservative values. 0:04:55.753 --> 0:04:57.834 So can I ask, because you say that he's been 0:04:57.834 --> 0:05:00.394 in your algorithm for a year now, I guess that's 0:05:00.393 --> 0:05:03.594 because you're watching these videos. That's why he keeps popping up. 0:05:03.633 --> 0:05:06.953 And what is it about him that inspired such strong connections? 0:05:07.313 --> 0:05:11.234 I would always stop because I found it so infuriating. 0:05:11.313 --> 0:05:14.234 And it was because it was like he thought that 0:05:14.274 --> 0:05:16.474 because he spoke really fast and used lots of words 0:05:16.513 --> 0:05:18.753 in the same vein as someone like Ben Shapiro, who 0:05:18.794 --> 0:05:21.753 is the facts, don't care about your feelings conservative guy, 0:05:22.553 --> 0:05:25.953 that he was owning someone and showing out the hypocrisy 0:05:25.953 --> 0:05:27.914 and the weakness of their argument. But really he was 0:05:27.953 --> 0:05:30.714 just talking really really loud over the top of people. 0:05:31.313 --> 0:05:33.753 To me, it was such an indictment on the state 0:05:33.834 --> 0:05:37.154 of debate. Like, I found it incredibly depressing. But he 0:05:37.193 --> 0:05:39.153 also came up in a lot of conversations I have 0:05:39.834 --> 0:05:42.354 with friends because every now and then they'd go, ah, 0:05:42.714 --> 0:05:44.633 did he kind of make a good point about this thing? 0:05:44.914 --> 0:05:48.674 Because he could be very, very persuasive, but he was 0:05:48.873 --> 0:05:55.273 arguing for really dangerous, really upsetting political views. The idea 0:05:55.393 --> 0:06:01.873 that he would be assassinated for speaking, you know, his 0:06:02.193 --> 0:06:04.474 beliefs was just I can't think of another word other 0:06:05.393 --> 0:06:07.714 than shocking. And a lot of people felt the need 0:06:07.714 --> 0:06:09.794 to say this, but like, I don't think I've ever 0:06:09.834 --> 0:06:11.993 agreed with a word that Charlie Kirk has said, and 0:06:12.034 --> 0:06:15.674 I've actually seen a lot of them. But that doesn't 0:06:15.714 --> 0:06:20.034 mean that political violence or that someone losing their life 0:06:20.034 --> 0:06:22.433 for what they're saying is allowed. And I think I 0:06:22.513 --> 0:06:24.873 found it. There were two sides. There was the holding 0:06:24.953 --> 0:06:27.713 him up as a martyr, and then there was barely 0:06:27.753 --> 0:06:31.073 the news had dropped. I don't even think his kids 0:06:31.113 --> 0:06:33.034 would have barely known what had happened to him yet, 0:06:33.034 --> 0:06:36.674 and there was glee. It was such a uniquely Internet moment. 0:06:37.113 --> 0:06:41.154 What made me so shocked was the butt I disagree 0:06:41.154 --> 0:06:42.433 with you. I don't think there was two sides. I 0:06:42.474 --> 0:06:44.914 think there was probably three, because there was the people 0:06:44.914 --> 0:06:47.234 who were just like, this is just terrible, and I 0:06:47.234 --> 0:06:48.674 would put myself in that camp. 0:06:49.393 --> 0:06:51.993 I think those people didn't post, well. 0:06:51.834 --> 0:06:54.193 No, but why do you have to post? This is 0:06:54.234 --> 0:06:57.953 what made me feel so heartsick. Apart from the human 0:06:58.234 --> 0:07:02.313 heartsick story of a father with two children, age one 0:07:02.393 --> 0:07:05.234 and three, and a wife who it's unclear whether she 0:07:05.313 --> 0:07:07.074 was there or she wasn't there, but it doesn't matter. 0:07:07.313 --> 0:07:12.874 It's been televised globally essentially via the internet. Firstly, why 0:07:12.914 --> 0:07:15.194 does everybody have to come on social media and make 0:07:15.234 --> 0:07:18.793 a statement like what is that about? Secondly, the people 0:07:19.194 --> 0:07:24.194 who come on and say this is bad, but I 0:07:24.194 --> 0:07:27.634 didn't agree with what he said, or but sometimes violence 0:07:27.674 --> 0:07:30.674 is necessary. I saw some people say but sometimes violence 0:07:30.714 --> 0:07:36.874 is necessary. These are respectable mainstream commentators. You know why 0:07:36.914 --> 0:07:38.393 when is violence necessary? 0:07:38.474 --> 0:07:40.754 You Know what I notice more than anything this weekend 0:07:41.194 --> 0:07:43.434 is that there's something really interesting about who people are 0:07:43.514 --> 0:07:47.194 talking to. The extremes are talking to each other, and 0:07:47.634 --> 0:07:50.153 if you're not exposed to one extreme, it looks like 0:07:50.234 --> 0:07:53.314 someone is staring at the sky, shaking their fist, saying 0:07:53.314 --> 0:07:55.434 something that doesn't make sense. It's like, why is the 0:07:55.434 --> 0:07:58.473 butt necessary? The reason why people went that way is 0:07:58.474 --> 0:08:01.514 because on the other side you saw the reaction of 0:08:01.953 --> 0:08:05.434 conservatives in the US. It was as though this man 0:08:05.714 --> 0:08:08.834 was some kind of messiah, and he was someone who 0:08:08.953 --> 0:08:11.714 lacked empathy throughout his life, and he was someone who 0:08:11.794 --> 0:08:14.353 defended gun ownership, and he was someone who had said, 0:08:14.594 --> 0:08:16.033 we're going to have a few regret. 0:08:15.754 --> 0:08:16.834 About if this matters. 0:08:17.074 --> 0:08:20.474 Can we just agree that we don't kill people if 0:08:20.474 --> 0:08:23.314 we disagree with what they stand for, or what they say, 0:08:23.434 --> 0:08:28.674 or what they believe. My exhaustion and my despair at 0:08:28.674 --> 0:08:31.594 the last few days has been, you know exactly what's 0:08:31.594 --> 0:08:33.874 going to happen. Some people are going to celebrate it, 0:08:33.953 --> 0:08:36.074 then there's going to be opinions written, and then there'll 0:08:36.074 --> 0:08:39.154 be backlash to the opinions and hot takes of hot takes, 0:08:39.354 --> 0:08:41.554 and everyone will try to cancel each other if you 0:08:41.594 --> 0:08:44.794 say something, what should you say? And it's like, firstly, 0:08:44.834 --> 0:08:48.074 you don't need to say anything, and secondly, you can 0:08:48.194 --> 0:08:51.714 just say this is tragic. Can we all agree that 0:08:51.794 --> 0:08:53.754 we don't kill people that we disagree with. 0:08:53.954 --> 0:08:56.994 This reminds me a little bit mea of when school 0:08:57.034 --> 0:08:59.434 shootings happen and we're told that we're not allowed to 0:08:59.434 --> 0:09:01.874 politicize them. And now it's not the time to talk 0:09:01.914 --> 0:09:05.434 about gun control because that would be somehow desecrating the 0:09:05.474 --> 0:09:08.794 memory of these children who were gunned down by weapons 0:09:08.794 --> 0:09:11.794 that should never have been available to ordinary citizens. 0:09:12.914 --> 0:09:15.154 Do you know what I've also thought about so much 0:09:15.434 --> 0:09:19.194 is that this culture And we've noticed as people who've 0:09:19.194 --> 0:09:22.554 been online for you know, getting close to two decades 0:09:22.594 --> 0:09:26.234 now and writing opinion at the beginning, you know, in 0:09:26.274 --> 0:09:29.154 the twenty tens, early twenty tens, people would say I 0:09:29.194 --> 0:09:31.634 disagree with you. You know, there would be opinion sites and 0:09:31.634 --> 0:09:34.634 other people would have opinions. It then became over the 0:09:34.714 --> 0:09:37.594 last sort of five to ten years, you need to 0:09:37.674 --> 0:09:41.194 delete it, take it down, apologize for what you said, 0:09:41.754 --> 0:09:44.754 because this feeling of having an opinion out there that 0:09:44.834 --> 0:09:48.634 you didn't agree with became so intolerable to a generation. 0:09:49.154 --> 0:09:50.953 And it was part of cancel culture as well. Right, 0:09:50.994 --> 0:09:53.154 So someone said something you didn't agree with. It's not 0:09:53.434 --> 0:09:56.234 I disagree with this person and you debate them or 0:09:56.434 --> 0:09:59.474 you choose not to engage with them anymore. It's they 0:09:59.554 --> 0:10:01.914 need to be punished, they need to be canceled or 0:10:01.954 --> 0:10:02.594 wiped out. 0:10:02.634 --> 0:10:04.834 But that's coming from both sides of me. I agree, 0:10:05.514 --> 0:10:08.634 I agree this is Happeningvative forces in the US are 0:10:08.674 --> 0:10:11.914 gathering to make lists of everyone who said things about this. 0:10:12.034 --> 0:10:13.034 I agree, they didn't think. 0:10:12.874 --> 0:10:14.754 Were And to me, it's not a left and right. 0:10:14.834 --> 0:10:17.594 To me, it's our culture. Well, of the Internet of 0:10:17.754 --> 0:10:19.034 if I disagree. 0:10:18.554 --> 0:10:21.354 With you, you. 0:10:19.794 --> 0:10:22.353 Can't exist, and that is a through line to assosciation, 0:10:22.394 --> 0:10:23.194 which is terrifying. 0:10:23.794 --> 0:10:26.354 I don't know. I think that they might be disparate issues, 0:10:26.394 --> 0:10:28.314 because what I worry about is we look at this 0:10:28.394 --> 0:10:30.954 and go, oh, it's it's left and right. It's the 0:10:30.994 --> 0:10:33.274 progressives on the internet have lost their mind. Hang on, 0:10:33.434 --> 0:10:35.874 we know very little about the person who did this. 0:10:35.914 --> 0:10:38.434 One man shot that bullet, and he will have had 0:10:38.474 --> 0:10:42.354 a motive and an upbringing and was very pro guns 0:10:42.394 --> 0:10:45.314 and all of that. And I do not like holding 0:10:45.354 --> 0:10:49.154 a whole political spectrum to account for an act of 0:10:49.394 --> 0:10:51.834 very specific political violence. You're allowed to go online and 0:10:51.834 --> 0:10:54.994 criticize someone, absolutely, go for it. I mean, Charlie Kirk 0:10:55.154 --> 0:10:58.834 did that, as was he's right. But political violence, we 0:10:58.914 --> 0:11:01.554 know begets political violence. I think that's what's scary. 0:11:01.794 --> 0:11:04.554 And I think that you said something before, Jesse, that 0:11:04.634 --> 0:11:06.474 we need to talk more about, which is that this 0:11:06.594 --> 0:11:10.794 was a very online event. And Mia, you directed my 0:11:10.834 --> 0:11:14.274 attention to an Instagram post from doctor Raymond Nichols. He wrote, 0:11:14.274 --> 0:11:17.314 you were never meant to witness someone's final breath and 0:11:17.354 --> 0:11:19.874 then laugh at a TikTok. You weren't built for that. 0:11:20.434 --> 0:11:22.634 Your soul wasn't designed to hold that kind of weight 0:11:22.674 --> 0:11:24.114 and then move on like it's nothing. 0:11:24.394 --> 0:11:26.834 I think that part of the shock. This sounds sort 0:11:26.874 --> 0:11:29.274 of ridiculous, but I thought about how many videos had 0:11:29.274 --> 0:11:31.034 popped up of Charlie Kirk, and often I watched the 0:11:31.034 --> 0:11:33.954 whole thing. I was trying to understand it. That man's 0:11:33.994 --> 0:11:36.554 face had become very familiar to me. To watch that 0:11:36.714 --> 0:11:41.074 man die was an incredibly confronting thing because of the 0:11:41.634 --> 0:11:45.554 level of familiarity I suppose so many of us had, 0:11:45.634 --> 0:11:48.834 and the reaction. You can look at the reaction from 0:11:48.914 --> 0:11:52.234 all sides. I heard some journalists talking about it, and 0:11:52.434 --> 0:11:55.354 journalists knew him as a man. They'd sat with him, 0:11:55.354 --> 0:11:58.314 and they traveled with him, and he was a flesh 0:11:58.354 --> 0:12:02.634 and blood person who some people liked, some people didn't. 0:12:03.034 --> 0:12:04.954 And the fact that even after he died, it was 0:12:05.034 --> 0:12:08.434 like for some people that wasn't an I just went 0:12:08.514 --> 0:12:09.794 the man isn't breathing anymore. 0:12:09.834 --> 0:12:13.394 Yeah, Like, don't you think that's a result of dehumanizing 0:12:13.394 --> 0:12:14.514 people in the first place. 0:12:14.954 --> 0:12:18.514 Yeah. And in terms of the political violence, begetting political violence, 0:12:18.594 --> 0:12:19.314 people are scared. 0:12:19.474 --> 0:12:21.194 I think it's also about the fact that people are. 0:12:21.074 --> 0:12:23.594 Scared, terrified. I mean if I was getting up on 0:12:23.674 --> 0:12:25.794 stage and that sounds ridiculous, but I think that the 0:12:25.834 --> 0:12:28.714 media class is kind of having this moment of if 0:12:28.754 --> 0:12:30.154 we live in a culture where you can't sit on 0:12:30.194 --> 0:12:31.474 stage and say what you think, we'll. 0:12:31.354 --> 0:12:32.314 Look at Salmon Rushti. 0:12:32.474 --> 0:12:34.554 Yeah, it wasn't that long ago that someone tried to 0:12:34.634 --> 0:12:35.594 murder him. 0:12:35.634 --> 0:12:37.874 But also the building up of him as a martyr, 0:12:37.914 --> 0:12:40.634 which is happening right now. I mean people are scared, 0:12:40.874 --> 0:12:43.714 Like ordinary Americans who don't speak into microphones for a 0:12:43.714 --> 0:12:46.434 living are scared because when you build someone up as 0:12:46.434 --> 0:12:48.474 a martyr and then you say that the martyr has 0:12:48.514 --> 0:12:51.074 been killed, it leaves you to wonder what actions will 0:12:51.114 --> 0:12:52.394 be taken as a result of that. 0:12:52.754 --> 0:12:56.474 Yeah, and to your point before, Amelia, about this happening 0:12:56.514 --> 0:12:59.994 across the spectrum. Three months ago, Melissa Hortman, who was 0:12:59.994 --> 0:13:02.114 a Democrat and her husband was shot and killed in 0:13:02.154 --> 0:13:05.794 their home. Now President Donald Trump refused to say her name. 0:13:06.074 --> 0:13:09.074 In the past, when Jay k was assassinated, when Martin 0:13:09.154 --> 0:13:12.354 Luther King was assassinated, there was at least this sense 0:13:12.394 --> 0:13:14.954 of like we can stand here as a political class, 0:13:14.994 --> 0:13:17.794 hold hands and say we disavow this across the spectrum, 0:13:17.834 --> 0:13:21.914 this does not happen. But now you get the but 0:13:21.994 --> 0:13:25.514 what about thing because a moment like this happens and 0:13:25.554 --> 0:13:27.954 you have Elon Musk right, the left is the party 0:13:27.954 --> 0:13:30.994 of murder. Like that's just not I agreeful. 0:13:31.274 --> 0:13:33.434 And I think back to what you said Jesse before 0:13:33.674 --> 0:13:37.754 about there were two groups of people. This all comes 0:13:37.834 --> 0:13:41.114 down to the algorithm and the internet. I think that 0:13:41.194 --> 0:13:44.754 the reason it can feel so demoralizing being online and 0:13:44.834 --> 0:13:47.394 make you despair is that you do only see the 0:13:47.434 --> 0:13:52.234 extremes and they are not symbolic of how most people 0:13:52.274 --> 0:13:53.394 feel about anything. 0:13:53.714 --> 0:13:57.594 And the problem was, we see the extremes. We saw 0:13:57.674 --> 0:13:59.634 this happen, and maybe that's why it was such a 0:13:59.634 --> 0:14:01.874 big deal. Do you think, because in some ways this 0:14:01.954 --> 0:14:04.554 feels like a bigger deal than when the Trump assassination 0:14:04.594 --> 0:14:05.314 attempt happen. 0:14:05.434 --> 0:14:07.394 The reason I heard someone say that it felt like 0:14:07.474 --> 0:14:10.674 a bigger deal, and I'm not American and I wouldn't know, 0:14:10.754 --> 0:14:12.714 but maybe you can speak to this, Amelia, is that 0:14:13.394 --> 0:14:18.194 there is a tragically a blueprint for attempted assassinations or 0:14:18.194 --> 0:14:22.754 assassinations of American presidents. You know, there was JFK, there 0:14:22.754 --> 0:14:26.954 was the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan, the attempted assassination 0:14:27.074 --> 0:14:30.834 of Trump. That's why it was like, it was shocking, 0:14:30.914 --> 0:14:35.274 but it wasn't surprising, the attempted assassination of Trump. Charlie Kirk, 0:14:35.274 --> 0:14:39.514 As far as I understand, Jesse, he wasn't a political candidate. 0:14:39.714 --> 0:14:40.994 He didn't hold office. 0:14:41.114 --> 0:14:44.594 He had no actual impact on the leavers of government, 0:14:44.714 --> 0:14:48.674 unlike someone say, even Anelon Musk, who was actually in 0:14:48.714 --> 0:14:49.834 there doing things. 0:14:49.674 --> 0:14:50.314 At the behatal. 0:14:50.314 --> 0:14:54.594 He was powerful, but he was influential exactly. He was influential. 0:14:54.914 --> 0:14:57.074 And the people that said this is what made my 0:14:57.434 --> 0:14:59.834 blood curdle is that the people who were like, sometimes 0:14:59.954 --> 0:15:04.194 violence is necessary, and I'm like, what, so, it's necessary 0:15:04.354 --> 0:15:07.034 if you disagree with the person. But then if someone 0:15:07.194 --> 0:15:10.754 uses that justification because they disagree with you to be 0:15:10.834 --> 0:15:14.914 violent against you, Suddenly, oh no, it's only necessary when 0:15:14.954 --> 0:15:17.434 I disagree with the person's views, and that that's not 0:15:17.474 --> 0:15:18.194 a democracy. 0:15:18.274 --> 0:15:21.914 That's You've christiz for me as to why this is 0:15:21.954 --> 0:15:24.234 such a big deal. Why we're talking about this on 0:15:24.274 --> 0:15:26.074 a Monday when it happened on a Thursday on the 0:15:26.114 --> 0:15:28.914 other side of the world, And it's because he was 0:15:29.034 --> 0:15:33.274 famous and was killed because of his words. He wasn't 0:15:33.314 --> 0:15:37.194 in office, he didn't have actions to criticize or condemn. 0:15:37.554 --> 0:15:38.714 He just had words. 0:15:38.994 --> 0:15:42.194 This is why we protest, and this is why we speak, 0:15:42.234 --> 0:15:43.914 and this is why we debate, and we do all 0:15:43.954 --> 0:15:46.514 of those things. And in the course of a debate, 0:15:46.714 --> 0:15:50.154 you can entirely lack empathy. And I want to sort 0:15:50.194 --> 0:15:54.194 of acknowledge space for that, because Charlie Kirk did dehumanize 0:15:54.194 --> 0:15:55.994 a lot of people, he did hurt a lot of people. 0:15:56.034 --> 0:15:58.274 But just because he lacked empathy doesn't mean that in 0:15:58.274 --> 0:16:01.314 the wake of his death we need to like, that's 0:16:01.354 --> 0:16:03.474 not how I. 0:16:02.714 --> 0:16:05.314 Know unless you believe that words of violence. And then 0:16:05.554 --> 0:16:08.634 the logic all through line is that, well, if someone's 0:16:08.674 --> 0:16:10.914 been violent to me with their words, I can be 0:16:10.994 --> 0:16:12.114 violent to them with a gun. 0:16:12.194 --> 0:16:14.354 And that's a terrifying. 0:16:13.794 --> 0:16:17.554 Reality in a moment, how Harry's trip to the UK 0:16:17.794 --> 0:16:24.634 has suddenly changed everything. The Duchess of Sussex's jams have 0:16:24.754 --> 0:16:28.034 been arriving on us doorsteps this week and last week. 0:16:28.154 --> 0:16:30.354 I have an unpopular opinion. I think they're too cheap. 0:16:30.794 --> 0:16:34.074 How much are they They're nine dollars and I think, yeah, 0:16:34.114 --> 0:16:35.674 I think it's seven dollars postage. 0:16:35.674 --> 0:16:38.354 But like with all this fuss, I reckon. 0:16:38.794 --> 0:16:40.394 I mean, I wouldn't have bought them, but I think 0:16:40.394 --> 0:16:42.354 she could have sold them for like thirty dollars. 0:16:42.514 --> 0:16:45.514 I completely agree. Agree, is there expensive postage? 0:16:45.914 --> 0:16:46.514 Seven dollars? 0:16:46.594 --> 0:16:50.074 Apparently there was some twine and some dried lavender on it, so. 0:16:50.114 --> 0:16:51.314 Okay, that was just a little bit. 0:16:51.354 --> 0:16:53.994 It makes it film mass produced. I completely agree. And 0:16:54.074 --> 0:16:56.274 I don't know if you heard this or even if 0:16:56.314 --> 0:16:58.354 it made it into the cup for Friday's episode, but 0:16:58.434 --> 0:17:00.034 you know, we spoke to a tower card reader on 0:17:00.074 --> 0:17:02.954 Friday and one of our questions was whether Holly will 0:17:02.994 --> 0:17:04.393 ever get her hands on a jam. 0:17:04.874 --> 0:17:06.434 I think there's a lot of it available now. 0:17:06.554 --> 0:17:09.114 I don't know how hard she get in Australia Maya, 0:17:09.394 --> 0:17:11.914 and she said she will get the jam, but maybe 0:17:11.914 --> 0:17:12.754 not the jam. 0:17:12.834 --> 0:17:15.234 That she wanted. It might be, which isn't that how 0:17:15.314 --> 0:17:19.033 life goes? So this is not about the jam. Prince 0:17:19.034 --> 0:17:22.394 Harry's had a really good couple of days. Let me explain. 0:17:22.514 --> 0:17:25.114 He took a thirty six hour trip to Kiev in 0:17:25.274 --> 0:17:29.034 Ukraine over the weekend and he was promoting his Invictus 0:17:29.114 --> 0:17:33.274 Games foundation there, but Before that, he went to the. 0:17:33.274 --> 0:17:36.033 UK for a few days and had a balloon animal 0:17:36.074 --> 0:17:37.874 sword fight with a small child. 0:17:38.314 --> 0:17:43.314 Oh so sel photos. He went, He visited sick children, 0:17:43.634 --> 0:17:46.194 He got out and about in the community. He was smiling, 0:17:46.234 --> 0:17:49.513 he was laughing. The UK press called it old Harry 0:17:49.594 --> 0:17:51.793 is back again, because you know, he's only been to 0:17:51.794 --> 0:17:54.074 the UK recently for lawsuits and has looked very dow 0:17:54.434 --> 0:17:55.754 funerals and funerals. 0:17:55.794 --> 0:17:57.234 So was he in the UK as part of an 0:17:57.274 --> 0:17:59.714 Invictus Games thing too, I'm just wondering. 0:17:59.714 --> 0:18:02.714 No, it was essentially a little unofficial royal visit. So 0:18:02.954 --> 0:18:05.994 he went in part because he really wanted to meet 0:18:06.114 --> 0:18:08.553 with his dad and it was unclear whether he was 0:18:08.594 --> 0:18:11.154 going to And if you recall last week on the show, 0:18:11.394 --> 0:18:13.994 I cited some reporting that said that his dad was 0:18:13.994 --> 0:18:16.754 not going to meet with him. And the reason why 0:18:16.754 --> 0:18:18.114 his dad was not going to meet with him is 0:18:18.154 --> 0:18:22.234 because his other son, William has absolutely next this. He 0:18:22.274 --> 0:18:25.154 says he's not allowed to meet with Harry. It's sort 0:18:25.194 --> 0:18:27.834 of the same as Prince Andrew. Once you're out, you're out, 0:18:27.914 --> 0:18:30.554 you can't be let back in. He said unforgivable things 0:18:30.594 --> 0:18:34.154 about Kate. He implied that Kate was racist about his 0:18:34.274 --> 0:18:35.634 children's skin color. 0:18:35.474 --> 0:18:36.553 And that she was cold. 0:18:36.954 --> 0:18:39.034 I've got a lot of sympathy for this idea because 0:18:39.074 --> 0:18:42.434 can you imagine, given that so many private conversations were 0:18:42.634 --> 0:18:45.954 relaid both in the Netflix documentary that harn Meghan did 0:18:45.994 --> 0:18:50.794 and in Spare his memoir, like even meeting with Charles, 0:18:50.914 --> 0:18:54.154 I think trust would be very much in tatters. 0:18:54.434 --> 0:18:56.434 Yeah, and you know, I don't think it's unusual when 0:18:56.474 --> 0:18:59.634 there are two children to sort of play off each 0:18:59.674 --> 0:19:01.954 other to their parents. I remember once you and me 0:19:02.074 --> 0:19:04.634 were talking about how fun it is to complain about 0:19:04.674 --> 0:19:07.274 our sibling to our parents and then to see whether 0:19:07.394 --> 0:19:08.314 or not they agree with you. 0:19:08.354 --> 0:19:11.314 And complain to our sibling about our parents exactly. 0:19:11.674 --> 0:19:13.714 So all of this has said that he didn't know 0:19:13.714 --> 0:19:15.874 whether he was going to get to meet with him. Well, 0:19:15.914 --> 0:19:19.033 guess what. Charles was coming down to London from Balmoral 0:19:19.234 --> 0:19:22.593