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Speaker 1: True crime Conversations acknowledges the traditional owners of land and

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Speaker 1: waters that this podcast was recorded on. You can call Lisa.

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Speaker 2: McVeagh many things, victim, survivor, officer, but when you hear

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Speaker 2: her full story in her very own words, there is

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Speaker 2: one thing you will definitely.

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Speaker 1: Know her as a total boss.

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Speaker 2: To understand why you have to just for a moment,

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Speaker 2: put yourself in her shoes. Abused from the age of two,

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Speaker 2: Lisa was placed into foster care before being sent to

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Speaker 2: live with her grandmother, where her grandmother's boyfriend also abused

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Speaker 2: her for years, sometimes while holding the cold steel of

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Speaker 2: a gun barrel to her head.

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Speaker 1: She is at this point.

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Speaker 2: Simply surviving her life, going to school while working at

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Speaker 2: the local donuts store. This teenage girl has been through

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Speaker 2: it physical violence, mental trauma, sexual assault. Then, on the

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Speaker 2: night of November three, p nineteen eighty four, as she's

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Speaker 2: riding home from work, a complete stranger yanks her from

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Speaker 2: the back of her bike and kidnaps her. For the

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Speaker 2: next twenty six hours, Lisa is tied up, blindfolded, and

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Speaker 2: brutally raped over and over again. She's not physically strong

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Speaker 2: enough to fight off her attacker, but Unbeknownst to the

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Speaker 2: man who abducted her, Lisa will outsmart him in ways

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Speaker 2: that would not only lead to his arrest, but that

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Speaker 2: would link him to the deaths of multiple other women

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Speaker 2: and make Lisa realize that she was possibly one of

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Speaker 2: the only survivors of an escalating serial killer. But despite

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Speaker 2: being able to escape the clutches of a depraved and

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Speaker 2: violent man, she knows she has another waiting for her

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Speaker 2: when she gets home, and a police force who doesn't

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Speaker 2: believe a seventeen year old could possibly retain so much

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Speaker 2: information on her attacker, not when she should be out

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Speaker 2: of her mind scared. But Lisa has a superpower, the

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Speaker 2: ability to remember and recall detail, and sadly, the life

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Speaker 2: experi vrins that would make her able to manipulate the

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Speaker 2: violent man who took her. I'm Claire Murphy and this

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Speaker 2: is True Crime Conversations, a podcast exploring the world's most

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Speaker 2: notorious crimes by speaking to the people who know the

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Speaker 2: most about them.

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Speaker 1: Lisa's story is harrowing.

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Speaker 2: She was abused to the point where she thought the

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Speaker 2: only way to end the suffering would be to end

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Speaker 2: her own life, and she does talk about being suicidal today,

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Speaker 2: So Please listen with care and reach out to Lifeline

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Speaker 2: if you need help. You can find them on thirteen

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Speaker 2: eleven fourteen. Lisa is very good at retelling her story.

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Speaker 2: She's been using it to help people for many years now.

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Speaker 2: But even now, after a movie's been made about her

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Speaker 2: ordeal and many news outlets have covered this crime, we

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Speaker 2: are still hearing new things about what she did in

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Speaker 2: order to make sure the man who she would eventually

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Speaker 2: watch die at his execution did not go unpunished. Lisa

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Speaker 2: McVeigh explains how watching police dramas on TV inspired her

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Speaker 2: to leave a trail of evidence that no defense lawyer

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Speaker 2: could talk away. How she paid so close attention to

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Speaker 2: the route her kidnapper took her on she could retrace

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Speaker 2: her steps while being blindfolded. How she tricked her abductor

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Speaker 2: into thinking she was a friend. How she listened to

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Speaker 2: his sad, pathetic reasoning for doing what he did and

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Speaker 2: made him feel like she was an ally, all while

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Speaker 2: plotting to bring him down. This is one woman's story,

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Speaker 2: Lisa's story, but her epic tale of survival and the

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Speaker 2: ability to bring herself back from the brink to not

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Speaker 2: only survive but thrive, is a lesson we can all

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Speaker 2: learn from.

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Speaker 1: She joins us.

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Speaker 2: Now, Lisa, thank you so much for joining us today.

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Speaker 2: You have got such an epic story, like your entire

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Speaker 2: life from start to now. There's so much that's happened

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Speaker 2: to you, and you have done yourself that we are

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Speaker 2: hoping to unpack some of that today.

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Speaker 1: So thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 2: But I guess the first I want to ask you,

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Speaker 2: is it super weird that someone made a movie about

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Speaker 2: a part of your life?

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Speaker 1: Like? Is that weird?

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Speaker 3: It was about getting a message out that you can

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Speaker 3: persevere any adversities in your life, and I needed to

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Speaker 3: get that message out to other women that at Eureka's moment,

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Speaker 3: you could be strong, you know, if it makes sense,

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Speaker 3: I turned my adversity of my childhood into strength and

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Speaker 3: courage and bravery and just wanting to live life, happy

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Speaker 3: and joyful and have that peace of mind that I

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Speaker 3: still have life, I still have.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: Every I have said it through the years and different shows, documentaries, interviews. God,

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Speaker 3: you know, God has gotten me through everything in my life.

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Speaker 3: And at the moment of that time where I had

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Speaker 3: been kidnapped, I pray and the first thing I said, God,

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Speaker 3: whatever you do, don't let me die.

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Speaker 4: And I think I carry that on.

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Speaker 3: To fulfilled and blessed life, and I want to continue

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Speaker 3: to get out there and reach out to women, whether

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Speaker 3: it's you know, an abusive relationship, or maybe another woman

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Speaker 3: has been victimized as it, you know, being kidnapped, whatever

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Speaker 3: case it be, you could be a woman in a

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Speaker 3: bank that's being robbed. You're still a victim that you

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Speaker 3: can go on. But the key is you have to

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Speaker 3: want and choose to. It's a big difference, it's a

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Speaker 3: big step, but you got to take that step into

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Speaker 3: faith and go for it.

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Speaker 4: And I surely did. Well.

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Speaker 2: Can you take me to the day that Bobby jo

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Speaker 2: Lung snatched you off the back of your back? Where

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Speaker 2: were you at on that particular day? Because you had

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Speaker 2: come from a pretty traumatic place before this traumatic thing

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Speaker 2: happened to you, So where was your head out on

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Speaker 2: the day that this happened to you?

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Speaker 3: The day that where my mind was. I was already

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Speaker 3: being abused sexually at my grandmother's house.

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Speaker 4: She had a boyfriend. They've been together for a little while.

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Speaker 3: I had been living with them for at this time,

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Speaker 3: oh gosh, almost four years, and I was trying to

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Speaker 3: go to high school.

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Speaker 4: I was in high school, missed a lot of days.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's classic right that they pitted me as

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Speaker 3: a poster child of child abuse. You know, I was

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Speaker 3: the one that very introvert looked down when I walked

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Speaker 3: and didn't make eye contact. I wore, you know, frumpty clothes.

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Speaker 3: You know I was being abused, right. I was trying

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Speaker 3: to be everything to myself. I ended up working on

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Speaker 3: donut shop because I could say the name right, Christpa

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Speaker 3: Kreme donut Shop, Yum, the best donors ever. So that

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Speaker 3: particular day was November two, nineteen eighty four, I was

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Speaker 3: on my way to work on a bicycle. That's my

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Speaker 3: mode of transportation, and it was less than three miles

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Speaker 3: each way home, so it was quite a distance on

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Speaker 3: a bicycle, but I did it. Christoph Kreme Donut Shop

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Speaker 3: was my safe haven. I latched onto the manager, I guess,

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Speaker 3: and he just was It was like a father figure

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Speaker 3: that I'd never had a father. I think he knew

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Speaker 3: perhaps maybe something was going at home, but he could

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Speaker 3: never pinpoint it. And he always took care of me there.

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Speaker 3: It's like I could do no wrong. It was incredible,

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Speaker 3: But that particular day. My grandmother had moved out, maybe

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Speaker 3: six months to maybe a year prior to my abduction.

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Speaker 3: So leading up to that day, I was left alone

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Speaker 3: with this monster, my growner's boyfriend, to fend myself.

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Speaker 4: And he still was I'm going to say the word

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Speaker 4: he was raping me.

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Speaker 3: No title, florid status, choose state statues say sexual assault.

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Speaker 4: People say, they say, SA, it's rape. It is where

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Speaker 4: it is.

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Speaker 3: He was a pedophile, my grandmother was a pedophile.

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Speaker 4: It is what it is.

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Speaker 3: But most of the time he would rate me, look

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Speaker 3: at it two three times a day sometimes and he

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Speaker 3: would use a gun at gunpoint.

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Speaker 4: So I was tired.

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Speaker 3: I was alone.

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Speaker 4: I had known a.

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Speaker 3: Turn to I couldn't even tell my own mom, my

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Speaker 3: own family was going on.

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Speaker 4: You know. I didn't want to harm brought to my family.

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Speaker 3: He would threaten he would harm my family if I

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Speaker 3: told anybody, so I kept him to myself. Before I

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Speaker 3: went to work, I actually sat down and I jotted

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Speaker 3: down a little note. If you find this note, you

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Speaker 3: know I would be dead. I basically what my own

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Speaker 3: suicide note. I was tired of living. In this little note,

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Speaker 3: I said I had been being a sexual abused and

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Speaker 3: all that I was tired of living.

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Speaker 4: I didn't think I had anywhere to turn to.

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Speaker 3: So I got I stuck foot an envelope through in

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Speaker 3: my little George at my bedroom, and I proceeded to

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Speaker 3: ride to work, go to work, and I remember that

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Speaker 3: night was so.

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Speaker 4: It was different.

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Speaker 3: It was so.

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Speaker 4: I was at peace because I knew.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel like you'd found a way to end it?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I was going to shoot and kill myself because

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Speaker 3: I knew this.

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Speaker 4: This man had guns all over the house.

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Speaker 3: My purple chair at the house, my home life, so

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Speaker 3: perfect opportunity, right, So I get to work.

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Speaker 4: I'm just I'm just happy.

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Speaker 3: I remember, I could feel like I'm about to be

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Speaker 3: free from all the abuse I was having.

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Speaker 4: And you know, in high.

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Speaker 3: School, they will send police to the school. Shot these

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Speaker 3: investigators to the school because neighbors kind of caught on

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Speaker 3: something bad was going on. But I will always deny

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Speaker 3: it again in fear of retaliation against my own family,

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Speaker 3: and that so much I loved my family. Right, So

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Speaker 3: the time came, as I don't know, but I worked

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Speaker 3: from two to like nine. You know, labor lawls even

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Speaker 3: back in the eighties, there's still labor laws for kids

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Speaker 3: under eighteen, you know, because under eighteen state of Florida,

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Speaker 3: you're still considering.

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Speaker 1: A kid because you're only seventeen at this stage, right, right.

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Speaker 3: So my boss comes to me and he goes, hey,

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Speaker 3: would she mind could you work or another shift? And

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Speaker 3: this shift was taken from nine to seven hour shift.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I'd have to call home and ask my

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Speaker 3: dad because at that time, anytime people would see me,

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Speaker 3: I was to prefer my grandma's boyfriend as my father,

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Speaker 3: so no one would catch on something that was going

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Speaker 3: on behind closed doors in this dark, gloomy house.

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Speaker 4: Dark you know, it was a.

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Speaker 3: Prison basically, so too much of my surprise, he agreed

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Speaker 3: to be careful coming home. Okay, And this time my

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Speaker 3: grandmother still was not living back there. She was still gone,

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Speaker 3: and I ended up helping him close and I was

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Speaker 3: on a bicycle. I did have someone asked to give

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Speaker 3: me a ride home, which is one of my co workers,

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Speaker 3: but I declined because I didn't want any trouble. If

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Speaker 3: I was with anybody and they bring me home, I'd

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Speaker 3: be interrogated by my grandma's boyfriend or my grandmother and

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Speaker 3: he would beat me. Why was I out with a guy?

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Speaker 3: It was it was a grown man. It was, you know,

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Speaker 3: he was looked up for my safety. God bless his heart.

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Speaker 3: And I, you know, decided to jump on my bike

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Speaker 3: and ride home. And I always took a certain route

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Speaker 3: and the streets. Christmas Kreme Donut shop is on the

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Speaker 3: area of Florida Avenue and Waters Avenue, North Tampa, and

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Speaker 3: I would ride down westbound on Waters to a street

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Speaker 3: called Rome. But something start with me. I don't know

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Speaker 3: if it was a car or buy him blue a horn.

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Speaker 3: I don't know why. I felt uncomfortable about that. I

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Speaker 3: had heard about a serial killer, but like we're all say,

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Speaker 3: it can't happen to us, So that was back in

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Speaker 3: my mind.

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Speaker 4: It was.

225
00:12:08,392 --> 00:12:12,112
Speaker 3: I had even actually forgotten about, not really seeing anything

226
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Speaker 3: of it. So I decided to take one street over,

227
00:12:15,472 --> 00:12:18,552
Speaker 3: thinking maybe someone was following me. So I went to

228
00:12:18,592 --> 00:12:20,792
Speaker 3: the next street over. I got halfway down the block

229
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Speaker 3: to come up to a road called Sly Avenue, and

230
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Speaker 3: then a German shepherd came out of the dark and

231
00:12:25,352 --> 00:12:28,312
Speaker 3: start chasing me. Chased me back out to the Waters

232
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Speaker 3: Avenue and I proceeded to continue to go back the

233
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Speaker 3: same route I would go home every night. I continued

234
00:12:35,392 --> 00:12:40,792
Speaker 3: to travel down Rome going southbound. You've seen the movies

235
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Speaker 3: were roads sometimes like like there's tunnels off trees and

236
00:12:44,432 --> 00:12:47,112
Speaker 3: so beautiful. Well that's how when you pass Roman fly

237
00:12:47,232 --> 00:12:50,152
Speaker 3: and you're going southbound, there's trees that look like a tunnel.

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Speaker 4: It's absolutely gorgeous.

239
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Speaker 3: But at night it makes it difficult through street lights

240
00:12:54,792 --> 00:12:56,672
Speaker 3: because they blocked the street lights and you got those

241
00:12:56,712 --> 00:13:00,952
Speaker 3: pink fluorescent low lights. So as I'm getting to Rome

242
00:13:00,992 --> 00:13:03,391
Speaker 3: and sly now I knows as a church on the

243
00:13:03,472 --> 00:13:08,232
Speaker 3: left or on the southeast corner and nothing anything of it,

244
00:13:08,272 --> 00:13:10,031
Speaker 3: And there's a park on the west side of the

245
00:13:10,112 --> 00:13:15,232
Speaker 3: road south Southwest Baseball Park was a fence and three bases,

246
00:13:15,272 --> 00:13:17,352
Speaker 3: a home plate. That's what it was back then. Now

247
00:13:17,392 --> 00:13:20,712
Speaker 3: it's a huge fraternal police park and all that stuff.

248
00:13:21,112 --> 00:13:24,552
Speaker 3: But I noticed that van had was park parallel to

249
00:13:24,632 --> 00:13:26,511
Speaker 3: the park, right on the same side of the park,

250
00:13:27,232 --> 00:13:29,552
Speaker 3: And I thought to myself, what if someone jumps out

251
00:13:29,592 --> 00:13:31,872
Speaker 3: and grass me there, Because now I'm looking straight thinking

252
00:13:32,832 --> 00:13:34,032
Speaker 3: it's a dark down there.

253
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Speaker 2: So you actually thought that might happen in your mind

254
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Speaker 2: as you're going home that night.

255
00:13:38,752 --> 00:13:41,992
Speaker 3: Yes, So then I looked over to my left and

256
00:13:42,032 --> 00:13:44,072
Speaker 3: I see this car and in the parking lot of

257
00:13:44,152 --> 00:13:46,352
Speaker 3: the church parking lot. I don't know what it was.

258
00:13:47,272 --> 00:13:49,072
Speaker 3: It struck to be odd to me the way it

259
00:13:49,112 --> 00:13:49,632
Speaker 3: was parked.

260
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Speaker 1: All your spidery senses are tingling at these points.

261
00:13:52,632 --> 00:13:56,032
Speaker 3: Right the front the car was facing north, in the

262
00:13:56,032 --> 00:13:58,392
Speaker 3: rear of the car was facing south. And I noticed,

263
00:13:58,552 --> 00:14:00,712
Speaker 3: you know, a white minal top or maroon car. And

264
00:14:00,752 --> 00:14:03,912
Speaker 3: it's dark, but the parking lot church had lights, and

265
00:14:03,992 --> 00:14:08,192
Speaker 3: the parking lot it wasn't cement or asphalt, it was gravel.

266
00:14:08,712 --> 00:14:11,592
Speaker 3: So I turned my head to proceed to go forward.

267
00:14:11,712 --> 00:14:14,952
Speaker 4: All the while I'm thinking this is going to be it.

268
00:14:15,432 --> 00:14:19,072
Speaker 3: I'm going home and I'm done, happy, go lucky. And

269
00:14:19,112 --> 00:14:21,192
Speaker 3: the next thing I know, I turned to the right

270
00:14:21,272 --> 00:14:23,712
Speaker 3: and just as I passed the van. The van was

271
00:14:23,752 --> 00:14:27,432
Speaker 3: a white Volkswagen van and the front of the van

272
00:14:28,072 --> 00:14:31,312
Speaker 3: was facing south right and the back of the van

273
00:14:31,432 --> 00:14:34,672
Speaker 3: was facing north. And I'm thinking, when someone jumps out

274
00:14:34,672 --> 00:14:36,552
Speaker 3: the back of the van, And just as I passed

275
00:14:36,592 --> 00:14:38,952
Speaker 3: the front of the van, I looked back to the

276
00:14:39,032 --> 00:14:43,152
Speaker 3: road and that's when I was just I'm incredible strength

277
00:14:43,352 --> 00:14:46,272
Speaker 3: of I thought it was three guys that just tore

278
00:14:46,432 --> 00:14:48,952
Speaker 3: me and ganked me off my bike. I'm thinking there's

279
00:14:48,992 --> 00:14:51,672
Speaker 3: three guys and end up being one guy. I started

280
00:14:51,712 --> 00:14:54,352
Speaker 3: screaming and I said, whatever you do. I said, God,

281
00:14:54,632 --> 00:14:57,472
Speaker 3: whatever you do, just don't kill me. And that's I

282
00:14:57,512 --> 00:14:59,832
Speaker 3: said that. After he put this still barrel of a

283
00:14:59,872 --> 00:15:00,912
Speaker 3: gun to my left temple.

284
00:15:01,512 --> 00:15:02,512
Speaker 4: I already knew what that was.

285
00:15:02,632 --> 00:15:04,632
Speaker 3: I was so used to it, and I said, whatever

286
00:15:04,632 --> 00:15:06,672
Speaker 3: you do, don't kill me, Do whatever you want. He

287
00:15:06,752 --> 00:15:09,712
Speaker 3: drags me across the street. My bike is left in

288
00:15:09,752 --> 00:15:12,632
Speaker 3: the street. I could even hear the sounds of the

289
00:15:12,632 --> 00:15:15,232
Speaker 3: wheels of the bike. I could still hear today. The

290
00:15:15,312 --> 00:15:19,632
Speaker 3: spokes just click click click click, you know, they stolelessly rolling.

291
00:15:20,352 --> 00:15:23,552
Speaker 3: Dragged me to the car and I'm kind of facing downward.

292
00:15:23,592 --> 00:15:26,792
Speaker 3: He's behind me, has me with this arm, his right arm,

293
00:15:27,552 --> 00:15:31,872
Speaker 3: and in the minute, I said, wait a minute, I

294
00:15:31,872 --> 00:15:34,632
Speaker 3: I'm going to fight for my life. I had something

295
00:15:34,752 --> 00:15:37,872
Speaker 3: left down in me that I had to fight. But

296
00:15:37,952 --> 00:15:41,112
Speaker 3: I had to fight smart. I had to fight calmly,

297
00:15:41,712 --> 00:15:45,632
Speaker 3: and I had to show whoever this person was, compassion

298
00:15:45,672 --> 00:15:47,952
Speaker 3: to show him that I was a very compassionate person

299
00:15:48,352 --> 00:15:50,632
Speaker 3: and that I wasn't just anybody he was going to

300
00:15:50,712 --> 00:15:52,632
Speaker 3: take off the street. I was going to be different.

301
00:15:53,552 --> 00:15:56,952
Speaker 3: I knew at home, if I had raised my voice,

302
00:15:57,472 --> 00:15:59,672
Speaker 3: if I had tried to hit my grandmother or my

303
00:15:59,672 --> 00:16:02,312
Speaker 3: grandma's boyfriend, I will get the tar beat.

304
00:16:02,112 --> 00:16:04,232
Speaker 4: Out of me. Right, I had to cuddle him.

305
00:16:04,472 --> 00:16:07,232
Speaker 3: I had to do all that so sense my home,

306
00:16:07,312 --> 00:16:10,312
Speaker 3: my horrific home life, prepared me for what's going to

307
00:16:10,352 --> 00:16:13,552
Speaker 3: happen for the next twenty six hours. He throws me

308
00:16:13,632 --> 00:16:16,312
Speaker 3: to the car from the driver's side. Then I said,

309
00:16:17,112 --> 00:16:19,792
Speaker 3: before I got in the car, I got I remember

310
00:16:19,792 --> 00:16:22,632
Speaker 3: this car looks like I remember the back wheel the

311
00:16:22,672 --> 00:16:25,352
Speaker 3: driver's side, you know, like you've a flat tire and

312
00:16:25,392 --> 00:16:27,392
Speaker 3: you stop and you tire back on when you put

313
00:16:27,392 --> 00:16:29,592
Speaker 3: it on backwards, and the other tire was white.

314
00:16:29,592 --> 00:16:32,432
Speaker 4: Wall had a white you know ring around the tire.

315
00:16:33,072 --> 00:16:36,352
Speaker 4: Got in, I saw white leather seats he had it.

316
00:16:36,752 --> 00:16:39,712
Speaker 3: Tell me about that big of a knife in a sheath,

317
00:16:39,832 --> 00:16:41,152
Speaker 3: like a like a hunting knife.

318
00:16:41,712 --> 00:16:42,472
Speaker 4: He had that there.

319
00:16:42,552 --> 00:16:45,432
Speaker 3: I saw that, like a like a light brown kind

320
00:16:45,432 --> 00:16:50,792
Speaker 3: of tannish sheath. Now I'm remembering all this. I'm also remembering,

321
00:16:51,312 --> 00:16:53,032
Speaker 3: wasn't I going to go home and kill myself?

322
00:16:53,712 --> 00:16:54,232
Speaker 4: Not today.

323
00:16:54,272 --> 00:16:57,592
Speaker 3: I wasn't going to allow one person to take my life,

324
00:16:58,272 --> 00:17:00,872
Speaker 3: because no one's going to take that from me. I

325
00:17:00,872 --> 00:17:02,952
Speaker 3: don't care what you do to me. This is going

326
00:17:02,992 --> 00:17:05,832
Speaker 3: to be my decision. Right. So, so tired was going

327
00:17:05,871 --> 00:17:10,351
Speaker 3: on home. So he orders me closes the door. He

328
00:17:10,472 --> 00:17:13,031
Speaker 3: orders me to keep my eyes closed. He orders me

329
00:17:13,111 --> 00:17:17,031
Speaker 3: to take my clothes off everything. I had a Krispy

330
00:17:17,111 --> 00:17:19,552
Speaker 3: Kream shirt, you know, has a lower Christopher creme on it,

331
00:17:19,752 --> 00:17:23,671
Speaker 3: white pants. I remember having these wedge shoes all away on.

332
00:17:23,712 --> 00:17:25,992
Speaker 3: There were wedges that were brown. We had to wear

333
00:17:25,992 --> 00:17:28,111
Speaker 3: certain shoes there so you don't slip on the floor

334
00:17:28,111 --> 00:17:29,311
Speaker 3: in the back doing.

335
00:17:29,071 --> 00:17:30,032
Speaker 4: The donuts and stuff.

336
00:17:30,272 --> 00:17:35,071
Speaker 3: And then he proceeds to tie me up, assuming at

337
00:17:35,071 --> 00:17:37,472
Speaker 3: that time of ligatures, maybe I've like torn bed sheets.

338
00:17:37,472 --> 00:17:39,752
Speaker 3: I don't know what they were. But the minute he

339
00:17:39,792 --> 00:17:41,711
Speaker 3: went to go put a blindfold on me, I'm like,

340
00:17:42,391 --> 00:17:45,112
Speaker 3: I can't lose my sight. I don't know what made

341
00:17:45,111 --> 00:17:47,631
Speaker 3: me think of this, but I did this, and I said,

342
00:17:48,111 --> 00:17:50,351
Speaker 3: you've got to tighten your jaw. So take a you

343
00:17:50,391 --> 00:17:52,952
Speaker 3: take a piece of string, ball your fest browl tight

344
00:17:53,192 --> 00:17:57,032
Speaker 3: tie the string and release your hand. The string becomes

345
00:17:57,071 --> 00:18:01,431
Speaker 3: a little loose. Same concept with the blindfold. Praise God,

346
00:18:01,992 --> 00:18:04,272
Speaker 3: it allowed me to be able to see beneath the blindfold,

347
00:18:04,552 --> 00:18:06,272
Speaker 3: So if I would be sitting back, I could see

348
00:18:06,911 --> 00:18:08,232
Speaker 3: bits and pieces.

349
00:18:07,871 --> 00:18:09,951
Speaker 2: So like you're looking like down your nose kind of

350
00:18:09,992 --> 00:18:10,911
Speaker 2: you can see at the bottom.

351
00:18:10,992 --> 00:18:14,392
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, But when he reclined the seat, I could

352
00:18:14,391 --> 00:18:16,552
Speaker 3: see for recent lakes on the highway. I can see,

353
00:18:16,671 --> 00:18:18,711
Speaker 3: you know, I could just see certain things or hear things.

354
00:18:19,111 --> 00:18:21,831
Speaker 3: After your time met with the blindfold on, he said,

355
00:18:21,992 --> 00:18:24,391
Speaker 3: if you show me a good time, I won't kill you.

356
00:18:24,792 --> 00:18:26,951
Speaker 3: Whatever you tell me do, I'm going to do it.

357
00:18:26,992 --> 00:18:29,351
Speaker 3: He's got the gan and i'll obviously.

358
00:18:28,952 --> 00:18:29,672
Speaker 4: The big knife.

359
00:18:29,952 --> 00:18:32,871
Speaker 2: My question here for you, though, is like, how how

360
00:18:32,911 --> 00:18:36,512
Speaker 2: do you think like that when like for the majority

361
00:18:36,512 --> 00:18:38,311
Speaker 2: of us, we're going to be in like full final

362
00:18:38,391 --> 00:18:42,192
Speaker 2: flight mode, panic mode, right, and that overrides those kind

363
00:18:42,272 --> 00:18:46,191
Speaker 2: of logical thoughts, right? How do you sift away the

364
00:18:46,232 --> 00:18:50,552
Speaker 2: panic and focus in on the logistics.

365
00:18:49,351 --> 00:18:53,871
Speaker 3: I imagine myself going through was how what I was

366
00:18:53,871 --> 00:18:57,992
Speaker 3: already going through at home. I had to remind myself

367
00:18:58,071 --> 00:19:01,471
Speaker 3: even at my home sleep with one eye open, but

368
00:19:01,552 --> 00:19:07,792
Speaker 3: I had to remain calm. This guid meant business. I

369
00:19:07,831 --> 00:19:11,152
Speaker 3: had to stay calm no matter what it took, no

370
00:19:11,151 --> 00:19:13,512
Speaker 3: matter what he did to me, didn't make it right,

371
00:19:13,792 --> 00:19:16,711
Speaker 3: but I have stayed calm for me. I think I

372
00:19:16,752 --> 00:19:20,391
Speaker 3: had already disassociate myself with the fact that he was

373
00:19:20,431 --> 00:19:24,711
Speaker 3: going to rape me. I knew that, but it was again,

374
00:19:24,871 --> 00:19:27,792
Speaker 3: it was nothing new to me. I had already been

375
00:19:28,151 --> 00:19:30,591
Speaker 3: raped at home. I had a childhood of rate when

376
00:19:30,631 --> 00:19:32,071
Speaker 3: I was a little girl at the age of two,

377
00:19:32,431 --> 00:19:35,431
Speaker 3: spent five years in foster care, you know. So I

378
00:19:35,431 --> 00:19:38,272
Speaker 3: have all gone through abuse most of my life, most

379
00:19:38,272 --> 00:19:41,112
Speaker 3: of my childhood. So it was nothing new about it.

380
00:19:41,391 --> 00:19:44,432
Speaker 3: Just a different person. What's one more bad guy. Let's

381
00:19:44,431 --> 00:19:46,271
Speaker 3: appease him, Let's do what you guys do to get

382
00:19:46,311 --> 00:19:48,671
Speaker 3: out of life. Let's lie whatever you're going to do.

383
00:19:49,192 --> 00:19:53,032
Speaker 2: Like that is So that is such an awful thought, though,

384
00:19:53,111 --> 00:19:56,071
Speaker 2: isn't it that you have been prepared for the worst

385
00:19:56,111 --> 00:19:56,432
Speaker 2: of them?

386
00:19:56,631 --> 00:19:56,831
Speaker 3: Right?

387
00:19:56,911 --> 00:19:59,792
Speaker 2: Like that is it's I mean, it's saved your life, yes,

388
00:20:00,032 --> 00:20:03,071
Speaker 2: and it put this guy behind buzz right, But like

389
00:20:03,151 --> 00:20:06,911
Speaker 2: at the same time, like, how awful for this girl

390
00:20:06,952 --> 00:20:09,431
Speaker 2: to be that prepared for the worst of humanity?

391
00:20:09,671 --> 00:20:14,792
Speaker 3: Right? So, you know, it took a lot of strength,

392
00:20:15,272 --> 00:20:17,071
Speaker 3: just when I didn't think I have any strength left.

393
00:20:17,671 --> 00:20:19,231
Speaker 3: I had to dig deep down in the pit of

394
00:20:19,232 --> 00:20:21,552
Speaker 3: my stomach and just says you're going to do this.

395
00:20:21,552 --> 00:20:24,871
Speaker 3: This person is not going to kill you. I wasn't

396
00:20:24,871 --> 00:20:27,872
Speaker 3: going to him the chance the opportunity to so at

397
00:20:27,871 --> 00:20:29,512
Speaker 3: that moment, he was telling me I was going to

398
00:20:29,512 --> 00:20:33,032
Speaker 3: sho him a good time, and then he forced me

399
00:20:33,111 --> 00:20:36,111
Speaker 3: to perform oral sex on him. I'm gonna have to

400
00:20:36,111 --> 00:20:39,231
Speaker 3: say it. It's that's what happened. At that point, he

401
00:20:39,712 --> 00:20:42,511
Speaker 3: pulled me back from my hair, pulled me back, he

402
00:20:42,552 --> 00:20:46,912
Speaker 3: didn't complete his transaction, and asking me questions how old

403
00:20:46,952 --> 00:20:49,751
Speaker 3: are you? Of course I lied, I'm nineteen. You have

404
00:20:49,792 --> 00:20:53,271
Speaker 3: a boyfriend, Yes, I live with my boyfriend. And he goes, well,

405
00:20:53,311 --> 00:20:56,232
Speaker 3: your boyfriend's a lucky guy who you know? So I'm

406
00:20:56,232 --> 00:21:00,631
Speaker 3: thinking of mind oh, but anything I can say to

407
00:21:00,831 --> 00:21:06,071
Speaker 3: redirect him, to show him I wasn't just another prostitute

408
00:21:06,151 --> 00:21:09,311
Speaker 3: or or another person he kidnaped off the road, that

409
00:21:09,391 --> 00:21:12,311
Speaker 3: I was actual human being with a life.

410
00:21:13,871 --> 00:21:15,071
Speaker 4: Not knowing the life I had.

411
00:21:15,192 --> 00:21:17,991
Speaker 3: He didn't know the life I had, so then he

412
00:21:18,032 --> 00:21:20,951
Speaker 3: proceeded to drive off the church parking lot. Mind you,

413
00:21:21,272 --> 00:21:23,232
Speaker 3: I had been riding a bicycle for four years back

414
00:21:23,232 --> 00:21:25,992
Speaker 3: and forth to work. It was two different locations, one

415
00:21:26,032 --> 00:21:29,391
Speaker 3: downtown and one on Florida Avenue. So I knew. I

416
00:21:29,472 --> 00:21:32,552
Speaker 3: was very focused and I know my sense of direction.

417
00:21:33,192 --> 00:21:35,311
Speaker 3: So he left the parking lot. He took a right.

418
00:21:35,472 --> 00:21:39,192
Speaker 3: He had it back northbound, traveled northbound on Row or Sly,

419
00:21:39,671 --> 00:21:41,952
Speaker 3: and then the light which is Roman Sly. He took

420
00:21:41,992 --> 00:21:44,272
Speaker 3: a right and started heading eastbound. And I knew exactly

421
00:21:44,311 --> 00:21:46,151
Speaker 3: where we're going. We're going to head to the Interstate.

422
00:21:46,712 --> 00:21:48,591
Speaker 3: We get on the interstate, and the reason why I

423
00:21:48,631 --> 00:21:50,272
Speaker 3: know is the interstate because of course I can't see

424
00:21:50,311 --> 00:21:52,631
Speaker 3: anything just yet, so I don't want him to see

425
00:21:52,671 --> 00:21:55,071
Speaker 3: that I can see. I don't want him to the opportunity.

426
00:21:55,631 --> 00:21:57,512
Speaker 3: I mean, he saw me. He probably could have punched

427
00:21:57,512 --> 00:21:59,351
Speaker 3: my lights out, knocked me out, you know, but I

428
00:21:59,431 --> 00:22:01,031
Speaker 3: want I had to stay stay alert.

429
00:22:01,232 --> 00:22:01,952
Speaker 4: I had to stay.

430
00:22:01,752 --> 00:22:02,631
Speaker 3: Alert at village.

431
00:22:02,712 --> 00:22:03,591
Speaker 4: It for me.

432
00:22:04,591 --> 00:22:08,352
Speaker 3: So he climbed the seat back as if yeah, it's

433
00:22:08,391 --> 00:22:10,671
Speaker 3: three o'clock in the morning, but people can still see

434
00:22:11,071 --> 00:22:13,631
Speaker 3: us in the car. The windows were down, so I

435
00:22:13,671 --> 00:22:16,472
Speaker 3: can tell the difference of the velocity of the wind change,

436
00:22:16,671 --> 00:22:19,391
Speaker 3: how fast it was going, and the fruorescent lights on

437
00:22:19,431 --> 00:22:22,272
Speaker 3: the interstate. We were on the interstate probably a good

438
00:22:22,472 --> 00:22:26,191
Speaker 3: ten to fifteen minutes. We get off the Interstate again,

439
00:22:26,311 --> 00:22:30,071
Speaker 3: Central direction. We're still heading eastbound. I have no clue

440
00:22:30,151 --> 00:22:34,391
Speaker 3: we're at I mean none. He pulls into a parking lot,

441
00:22:34,911 --> 00:22:36,591
Speaker 3: and you know, if you're laying on the ground, you

442
00:22:36,591 --> 00:22:38,711
Speaker 3: can see the bottom of the leaves or trees, or

443
00:22:38,712 --> 00:22:42,512
Speaker 3: when I'm reclining, I can see back light of real

444
00:22:42,591 --> 00:22:46,111
Speaker 3: dim fluorescent street lights. And I saw leaves. I said,

445
00:22:46,151 --> 00:22:48,791
Speaker 3: this is it. He's going to rate me. He's going

446
00:22:48,831 --> 00:22:52,031
Speaker 3: to kill me. We're now in the woods. So then

447
00:22:52,071 --> 00:22:54,351
Speaker 3: I hear him he stops the car. I can also

448
00:22:55,032 --> 00:22:56,511
Speaker 3: all the way out. I'm sorry them back up on

449
00:22:56,552 --> 00:22:58,631
Speaker 3: the way out there too. I could hear like the

450
00:22:58,631 --> 00:23:01,032
Speaker 3: car needed a tune up. That was very important to me.

451
00:23:01,591 --> 00:23:03,192
Speaker 3: I knew he needed a tune up in the car,

452
00:23:03,631 --> 00:23:05,831
Speaker 3: but I kept seeing the clock. There was a clock

453
00:23:05,831 --> 00:23:08,272
Speaker 3: on the dashboard. I was leaning back. It was like

454
00:23:08,351 --> 00:23:12,552
Speaker 3: green fluorescent. But I kept having the fluorescent lights on

455
00:23:12,671 --> 00:23:15,111
Speaker 3: and say, you know, you're on vacation and your husband

456
00:23:15,192 --> 00:23:17,191
Speaker 3: whoever you're driving, and you're trying to sleep in the light.

457
00:23:17,272 --> 00:23:20,751
Speaker 3: You just can't sleep because the passing lights. So I'm like,

458
00:23:20,792 --> 00:23:24,712
Speaker 3: what is that on the dashboard? I as the keen

459
00:23:24,752 --> 00:23:28,151
Speaker 3: detective that I can be. I loved watching crime shows

460
00:23:28,151 --> 00:23:31,752
Speaker 3: when I was little, I loved him Magnet Pi, Airwolf.

461
00:23:31,792 --> 00:23:33,591
Speaker 3: I don't know if you remember. Air was the helicopter

462
00:23:33,952 --> 00:23:37,351
Speaker 3: civilian helping the cops Hawaii five, Oh, those kind of shows.

463
00:23:37,391 --> 00:23:42,552
Speaker 3: I was very intrigued with law. Then the light there

464
00:23:42,591 --> 00:23:45,351
Speaker 3: was a light piercing off a dashboard like the glove box,

465
00:23:46,311 --> 00:23:47,232
Speaker 3: and I'm like, what is that?

466
00:23:47,391 --> 00:23:49,552
Speaker 4: What is that fauna? And it came to me.

467
00:23:51,071 --> 00:23:55,952
Speaker 3: It showed magnum magni Pi. So from then forward, anything

468
00:23:56,071 --> 00:24:00,311
Speaker 3: I can remember, smell, taste here, touch anything, I would

469
00:24:00,391 --> 00:24:03,912
Speaker 3: relate it to something already knew. I would compartmentalized it.

470
00:24:03,831 --> 00:24:06,991
Speaker 2: In my mind, created like a filing system everything that

471
00:24:06,992 --> 00:24:08,192
Speaker 2: you come across right.

472
00:24:08,472 --> 00:24:10,431
Speaker 3: Right, It was at blank canvas, but I had to

473
00:24:10,431 --> 00:24:12,032
Speaker 3: fill the canvas stuff and I had to fill that

474
00:24:12,151 --> 00:24:14,512
Speaker 3: file drawer up. So in case I got out alive,

475
00:24:14,712 --> 00:24:17,311
Speaker 3: I want to catch this guy, right, I mean, as

476
00:24:17,351 --> 00:24:20,471
Speaker 3: you maybe I was being a deputy at that time,

477
00:24:20,631 --> 00:24:22,671
Speaker 3: not realizing being a plete. I don't know, you know,

478
00:24:22,871 --> 00:24:26,272
Speaker 3: just was fighting for myself. So like I said, we

479
00:24:26,391 --> 00:24:28,752
Speaker 3: amp in this where the trees are, this is it.

480
00:24:29,192 --> 00:24:31,471
Speaker 3: And I hear him say get dressed. He nudged the

481
00:24:31,472 --> 00:24:34,831
Speaker 3: gun on my side to get dressed. It came him

482
00:24:34,871 --> 00:24:38,752
Speaker 3: kind of odd, right, like get dressed. He's got the gun. Well,

483
00:24:38,792 --> 00:24:40,512
Speaker 3: as he's getting out of the car, I can kind

484
00:24:40,512 --> 00:24:42,712
Speaker 3: of see a silhouette backdrop of him, but I can't

485
00:24:43,111 --> 00:24:45,792
Speaker 3: can't let him know I can see well that moment

486
00:24:45,871 --> 00:24:49,191
Speaker 3: I realized he's going to rape me and am on

487
00:24:49,311 --> 00:24:53,032
Speaker 3: my period. And yes, I'm going to say it on air.

488
00:24:53,631 --> 00:24:58,671
Speaker 3: Let's be realistic. I ripped my tampon out. What better

489
00:24:58,712 --> 00:25:01,032
Speaker 3: blood match? I threw aneath the car seat. I mean,

490
00:25:01,111 --> 00:25:03,631
Speaker 3: I rammed up beneath the car seat. In the movie,

491
00:25:03,631 --> 00:25:06,951
Speaker 3: it dictates that I bit my finger and put it

492
00:25:06,992 --> 00:25:09,831
Speaker 3: on the seat. I think it's for audience, but let's

493
00:25:09,871 --> 00:25:12,871
Speaker 3: get real. I'm a very real I'm very authentic. It

494
00:25:12,992 --> 00:25:15,952
Speaker 3: was my blood match. Who thinks about the age seventeen?

495
00:25:16,472 --> 00:25:18,591
Speaker 3: Not even twenty four hours before it, I wrote my

496
00:25:18,631 --> 00:25:19,872
Speaker 3: suicide note, right.

497
00:25:19,831 --> 00:25:22,752
Speaker 1: That's incredible that you had that full sight.

498
00:25:23,111 --> 00:25:26,751
Speaker 3: So it's incredible that I had that with all to

499
00:25:26,911 --> 00:25:30,471
Speaker 3: remember that. My concern too, was he raised me, and

500
00:25:30,512 --> 00:25:33,232
Speaker 3: that tampons to me, what if it hurts me from

501
00:25:33,232 --> 00:25:36,032
Speaker 3: having a kid in the future. I mean, I'm seventeen

502
00:25:36,111 --> 00:25:39,632
Speaker 3: thinking of this, right, So he proceeds to get me.

503
00:25:39,591 --> 00:25:40,032
Speaker 4: Out of the car.

504
00:25:40,111 --> 00:25:43,471
Speaker 3: Now I'm going to walk towards towards trees, and I

505
00:25:43,472 --> 00:25:46,272
Speaker 3: can feel that we're eastbound, like when he pulled it again,

506
00:25:46,472 --> 00:25:49,671
Speaker 3: sense of direction. We pull in and we're facing eastbound.

507
00:25:49,952 --> 00:25:52,831
Speaker 3: And next thing I know, he redirects me to a door,

508
00:25:53,391 --> 00:25:55,752
Speaker 3: and underneath I can see another flyingfold and I could

509
00:25:55,752 --> 00:25:57,992
Speaker 3: see the silver handover door. I can see it's white.

510
00:25:58,071 --> 00:26:01,671
Speaker 3: I could feel the door. It's one pane glass where

511
00:26:01,671 --> 00:26:05,272
Speaker 3: they put those little pieces that make eight little windows. Yeah, right,

512
00:26:05,391 --> 00:26:08,752
Speaker 3: the dividers. So he goes open the door, open the door,

513
00:26:09,151 --> 00:26:10,391
Speaker 3: and now I see carpet.

514
00:26:10,631 --> 00:26:11,311
Speaker 4: I'm like, okay.

515
00:26:11,671 --> 00:26:14,591
Speaker 3: The carp was predominantly green with black specks, red specks,

516
00:26:14,671 --> 00:26:15,871
Speaker 3: yellow specks, white specks.

517
00:26:16,311 --> 00:26:18,712
Speaker 4: I remember this wooden handrail.

518
00:26:19,431 --> 00:26:22,311
Speaker 3: We've built these steps in Every single step I count

519
00:26:22,472 --> 00:26:25,071
Speaker 3: until I got the top floor was nineteen. The movie

520
00:26:25,111 --> 00:26:29,272
Speaker 3: says twenty one numbers, right, Yeah. I wanted to count

521
00:26:29,311 --> 00:26:31,272
Speaker 3: those steps to see how many steps I have to

522
00:26:31,311 --> 00:26:34,071
Speaker 3: skip to get my ass out of there to go

523
00:26:34,151 --> 00:26:36,752
Speaker 3: for help. That didn't happen. So as soon as we

524
00:26:36,792 --> 00:26:40,272
Speaker 3: got on the platform, I guess what goes the nineteenth

525
00:26:40,391 --> 00:26:42,991
Speaker 3: floor nineteenth step, we make a quick left and a

526
00:26:43,071 --> 00:26:46,552
Speaker 3: quick right. And now know he's white, He's Caucasian. He's

527
00:26:46,631 --> 00:26:48,191
Speaker 3: left hand it because he held the gun in his

528
00:26:48,272 --> 00:26:50,471
Speaker 3: left hand. Now I see a black revolver. I know

529
00:26:50,552 --> 00:26:52,471
Speaker 3: it's a revolver. I've been around guns. I know what

530
00:26:52,472 --> 00:26:53,151
Speaker 3: guns look like.

531
00:26:56,952 --> 00:26:59,951
Speaker 2: You're listening to True Crime Conversations with me, clam Murphy.

532
00:27:00,151 --> 00:27:03,192
Speaker 2: I'm speaking with Lisa McVeagh, one of the only survivors

533
00:27:03,192 --> 00:27:07,871
Speaker 2: of serial killer Bobby Joe Long. Next, Lisa describes what

534
00:27:08,032 --> 00:27:10,631
Speaker 2: she took notice of when she was taken to his home.

535
00:27:17,232 --> 00:27:19,311
Speaker 3: He opens the door, and the first thing I noticed

536
00:27:19,391 --> 00:27:23,232
Speaker 3: I smell the apartment. Smell like he's just been painted,

537
00:27:23,752 --> 00:27:26,751
Speaker 3: and almost like he rented this apartment just to do

538
00:27:26,871 --> 00:27:29,391
Speaker 3: his dirty deeds, if that's what you want to call it.

539
00:27:30,391 --> 00:27:33,351
Speaker 3: He proceeds to walk in close the door. He makes

540
00:27:33,391 --> 00:27:37,751
Speaker 3: the stand in this room, and I kind of look

541
00:27:37,792 --> 00:27:39,951
Speaker 3: over a little bit and I can tell we're in

542
00:27:39,992 --> 00:27:43,792
Speaker 3: the bedroom. I can almost see a bed. So he

543
00:27:43,952 --> 00:27:46,351
Speaker 3: orders me to undress. I'm not My ligature is all

544
00:27:46,391 --> 00:27:49,392
Speaker 3: off yet, my blindfold's not off yet. I take take

545
00:27:49,391 --> 00:27:54,952
Speaker 3: my clothes off, and I don't know, somewhere between him

546
00:27:55,111 --> 00:27:59,391
Speaker 3: abducting me to the apartment. I gained his trust because

547
00:27:59,391 --> 00:28:02,671
Speaker 3: I can hear the sounds of bullets falling into like

548
00:28:02,712 --> 00:28:04,951
Speaker 3: a ten you know those ten trash cans you have

549
00:28:05,111 --> 00:28:08,071
Speaker 3: like in a man's cave in our office, or a drawer,

550
00:28:08,472 --> 00:28:11,032
Speaker 3: and I could hear the sound of bullets falling into

551
00:28:12,351 --> 00:28:15,111
Speaker 3: a drawer or a can. He proceeds to walk me

552
00:28:15,151 --> 00:28:19,071
Speaker 3: to the bathroom, removes the blindfold, removes letures, and puts

553
00:28:19,111 --> 00:28:21,792
Speaker 3: me in the shower, Like, what the what the happen

554
00:28:21,871 --> 00:28:23,552
Speaker 3: to my hair? My hair is co down on my waist,

555
00:28:23,992 --> 00:28:25,792
Speaker 3: I mean still, it's happened to my back now. But

556
00:28:26,311 --> 00:28:27,792
Speaker 3: my hair is very long, but I always had it

557
00:28:27,792 --> 00:28:29,752
Speaker 3: clipped up in a clip because you had to wear

558
00:28:29,752 --> 00:28:32,272
Speaker 3: a hair net and have your hair up at work.

559
00:28:32,911 --> 00:28:37,991
Speaker 3: And so with that, he proceeds to get in the shower.

560
00:28:38,911 --> 00:28:41,552
Speaker 3: He grabs me and hugs me. I'm like, what's that?

561
00:28:42,152 --> 00:28:43,072
Speaker 3: What's up to this guy?

562
00:28:43,232 --> 00:28:44,952
Speaker 4: You know, it's almost.

563
00:28:44,712 --> 00:28:49,951
Speaker 3: I think he was trying to live out a woman

564
00:28:50,152 --> 00:28:51,392
Speaker 3: and man.

565
00:28:51,312 --> 00:28:52,312
Speaker 1: Oh, like a girlfriend.

566
00:28:52,392 --> 00:28:55,471
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a girlfriend fantasy, like you know. He

567
00:28:55,671 --> 00:28:58,392
Speaker 3: tells me to keep my eyes shut, not going to happen.

568
00:28:58,671 --> 00:29:00,392
Speaker 3: So I start looking around and I see its white

569
00:29:00,472 --> 00:29:04,152
Speaker 3: tile subway tile, the medium sized ones. I'm trying to

570
00:29:04,152 --> 00:29:07,911
Speaker 3: find a window. No window, lucky me, right, no one know.

571
00:29:08,472 --> 00:29:10,632
Speaker 3: But when he pulled me to and tells became, my

572
00:29:10,671 --> 00:29:12,791
Speaker 3: eyes closed. But now I know he's got brown hair

573
00:29:12,832 --> 00:29:14,312
Speaker 3: because I opened my eyes up to see his hair

574
00:29:14,952 --> 00:29:18,352
Speaker 3: short cut, very clean cut, like he just got a haircut.

575
00:29:18,552 --> 00:29:21,032
Speaker 3: Proceeds to get me out of the bathroom, and that's

576
00:29:21,032 --> 00:29:23,951
Speaker 3: when the first attack happened. He brutally raped me on

577
00:29:24,032 --> 00:29:27,552
Speaker 3: the bathroom floor because when he threw him on the

578
00:29:27,552 --> 00:29:29,872
Speaker 3: floor to rape me, he realized I was on my

579
00:29:29,911 --> 00:29:32,792
Speaker 3: period and it enraged him. Why didn't tell him you're

580
00:29:32,832 --> 00:29:35,112
Speaker 3: on your periods? Screaming out me, I'm thinking to myself,

581
00:29:35,632 --> 00:29:37,671
Speaker 3: you know, my boyfriend or husband, Why do I need

582
00:29:37,671 --> 00:29:38,272
Speaker 3: to tell you?

583
00:29:38,272 --> 00:29:38,511
Speaker 4: You know?

584
00:29:39,032 --> 00:29:41,392
Speaker 3: But I just kept pleading for him to stop. Please,

585
00:29:41,431 --> 00:29:43,592
Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I meant to tell you. I just forgot

586
00:29:43,632 --> 00:29:47,112
Speaker 3: I was scared. Whatever it took to appease him. And

587
00:29:47,152 --> 00:29:50,272
Speaker 3: then he proceeds to walk me after the vital attack,

588
00:29:50,752 --> 00:29:53,792
Speaker 3: back into the bedroom, puts the blindfold back on. And

589
00:29:53,832 --> 00:29:56,511
Speaker 3: every time he took the blindfold off and put it

590
00:29:56,552 --> 00:29:58,432
Speaker 3: on or put it back on, I would do that

591
00:29:58,872 --> 00:30:00,832
Speaker 3: hand method with my jaw so I can see it

592
00:30:00,872 --> 00:30:04,471
Speaker 3: see beneath the blindfold. So when he got back in

593
00:30:04,512 --> 00:30:05,992
Speaker 3: the hips in the bathroom for something, but I could

594
00:30:05,992 --> 00:30:08,632
Speaker 3: see through my blindfold. I can see I don't know

595
00:30:08,632 --> 00:30:11,191
Speaker 3: if he's in their leopards, but it was like leopard prints,

596
00:30:11,632 --> 00:30:14,832
Speaker 3: paintings and pictures on walls. And I stand alone, fan

597
00:30:15,072 --> 00:30:17,832
Speaker 3: like a like a box fan. And then he got

598
00:30:17,872 --> 00:30:20,232
Speaker 3: me to the bed. I didn't know it was a waterbed,

599
00:30:20,352 --> 00:30:22,832
Speaker 3: so naturally when he pushed down the bed, I almost

600
00:30:22,832 --> 00:30:26,751
Speaker 3: fell off, like whoa made lay down, and he crawled

601
00:30:26,792 --> 00:30:30,272
Speaker 3: over me and drug the firearm across my stomach. He

602
00:30:30,312 --> 00:30:33,511
Speaker 3: goes gets the sleep. Don't don't then things stupid? You

603
00:30:33,552 --> 00:30:35,431
Speaker 3: think I want to sleep. Now, I'm gonna try to

604
00:30:35,431 --> 00:30:36,872
Speaker 3: look up on them a blindfold and see if I

605
00:30:36,872 --> 00:30:39,232
Speaker 3: can see anything. He must have had the window cover

606
00:30:39,392 --> 00:30:41,632
Speaker 3: or something, because it was always dark in there. I

607
00:30:41,752 --> 00:30:44,552
Speaker 3: remember seeing a clock, its reflucked. It was red, the

608
00:30:44,632 --> 00:30:47,152
Speaker 3: numbers were red. I was trying to see if there

609
00:30:47,232 --> 00:30:49,272
Speaker 3: was a phone there. I couldn't see any phone. The

610
00:30:49,312 --> 00:30:52,511
Speaker 3: movie shows I called tried to call nine one. Theatrics

611
00:30:52,592 --> 00:30:54,911
Speaker 3: never tried to call nine one one. Now I was

612
00:30:54,952 --> 00:30:57,231
Speaker 3: gonna put my life in jeopardy and have him kill me.

613
00:30:57,671 --> 00:31:01,152
Speaker 3: So all through the night it was. It was awful.

614
00:31:01,712 --> 00:31:05,072
Speaker 3: I won't discuss the ways he raped me, but you

615
00:31:05,112 --> 00:31:08,991
Speaker 3: can only imagine every which way he did it hurts.

616
00:31:09,312 --> 00:31:11,432
Speaker 3: He would hit me. I got to talk to him

617
00:31:11,431 --> 00:31:13,232
Speaker 3: one time and I asked himself, why are you doing

618
00:31:13,232 --> 00:31:16,832
Speaker 3: this to me? And his answer was his reply was ferbatim.

619
00:31:17,072 --> 00:31:19,471
Speaker 3: I'm getting back at women in general. Apparently he had

620
00:31:19,472 --> 00:31:22,552
Speaker 3: a broken relationship and because of that girl, he's getting

621
00:31:22,552 --> 00:31:25,751
Speaker 3: back in a women in general. And I'm thinking, so he's

622
00:31:25,752 --> 00:31:29,191
Speaker 3: adopting a raping girls. I'm not putting two two together

623
00:31:29,272 --> 00:31:33,392
Speaker 3: yet that he was a serial killer. Why would you

624
00:31:33,392 --> 00:31:36,431
Speaker 3: think that? Right? So, at one point, you know, I

625
00:31:36,472 --> 00:31:38,592
Speaker 3: had that Brett was stole in my hair after he

626
00:31:39,072 --> 00:31:42,592
Speaker 3: actually bathed me in the shower, I wrapped my bread

627
00:31:42,671 --> 00:31:44,832
Speaker 3: out and throw to the bed because his hair matched

628
00:31:44,872 --> 00:31:47,912
Speaker 3: my hair was still attached to it. Again, I got

629
00:31:47,952 --> 00:31:50,951
Speaker 3: that from watching mcguiver or crime shows or Magnie pre

630
00:31:51,112 --> 00:31:52,112
Speaker 3: I won those shows.

631
00:31:52,272 --> 00:31:54,792
Speaker 2: If ce as I was around back then, I feel

632
00:31:54,832 --> 00:31:57,752
Speaker 2: like you would have been the star.

633
00:31:58,832 --> 00:31:59,032
Speaker 1: Yeah.

634
00:31:59,352 --> 00:32:03,512
Speaker 3: It's like and it's like and now now you get older, well, yeah,

635
00:32:03,592 --> 00:32:07,992
Speaker 3: your hair naturally falls out. Anyways, right, so I lost count.

636
00:32:08,032 --> 00:32:10,832
Speaker 3: I can't tell you how many times I never thought

637
00:32:10,832 --> 00:32:12,392
Speaker 3: a human being could rape someone.

638
00:32:12,472 --> 00:32:14,832
Speaker 4: So many times I lost count.

639
00:32:14,911 --> 00:32:18,392
Speaker 3: I couldn't. I mean over and over four or five,

640
00:32:18,592 --> 00:32:20,632
Speaker 3: ten times. It was. It was horrible.

641
00:32:20,872 --> 00:32:22,911
Speaker 2: And even through all of that, you never got to

642
00:32:22,952 --> 00:32:26,231
Speaker 2: the point where you gave up. You still really convicted

643
00:32:26,272 --> 00:32:27,791
Speaker 2: that you are going to survive this and you're going

644
00:32:27,792 --> 00:32:28,671
Speaker 2: to take this guy down.

645
00:32:29,592 --> 00:32:31,752
Speaker 4: I did not have time to give up. The time

646
00:32:31,911 --> 00:32:33,911
Speaker 4: was the essence. I did not have time to give up.

647
00:32:34,992 --> 00:32:35,552
Speaker 3: That wasn't me.

648
00:32:35,752 --> 00:32:37,832
Speaker 4: I'm not a quitter. I'm a fighter. But I had

649
00:32:37,872 --> 00:32:38,711
Speaker 4: to fight smart.

650
00:32:38,752 --> 00:32:40,992
Speaker 3: I had. I had streets smart to me. I had,

651
00:32:41,112 --> 00:32:44,352
Speaker 3: you know, abuse in my background. I use that basically.

652
00:32:44,431 --> 00:32:47,672
Speaker 3: It's reverse psychology. I guess you want to say. At

653
00:32:47,671 --> 00:32:50,632
Speaker 3: one point, he got up, got me, dressed, got me.

654
00:32:50,712 --> 00:32:53,832
Speaker 3: I'm assuming the living room. That same day after the

655
00:32:53,911 --> 00:32:56,512
Speaker 3: abduction was hours like was like eleven o'clock at night,

656
00:32:56,992 --> 00:32:58,191
Speaker 3: Airwolf was on the news.

657
00:32:58,472 --> 00:32:59,832
Speaker 4: He sat me on the couch again.

658
00:32:59,872 --> 00:33:02,671
Speaker 3: I'm blindfolded, store ligatures on my ankles, on my hands,

659
00:33:02,992 --> 00:33:06,672
Speaker 3: my wrists, and a newsbreak comes on and it says

660
00:33:06,671 --> 00:33:09,872
Speaker 3: seventeen year old Lisa Rhodes. Well, my grandma's boyfriend's last

661
00:33:09,911 --> 00:33:12,991
Speaker 3: name is Rhodes, so say itself instead of saying my

662
00:33:12,992 --> 00:33:16,312
Speaker 3: real name, Lisa McVeigh. When I heard that news break,

663
00:33:16,312 --> 00:33:19,231
Speaker 3: he sandwich down in front of me in a pop

664
00:33:19,552 --> 00:33:20,152
Speaker 3: Soda Pop.

665
00:33:20,392 --> 00:33:22,912
Speaker 4: I don't drink soda today. I don't eat balognea.

666
00:33:22,952 --> 00:33:25,352
Speaker 3: Today. I couldn't eat because I'm thinking, what if he

667
00:33:25,712 --> 00:33:30,072
Speaker 3: poison the food. I mean, right, I was dramatic, maybe,

668
00:33:30,112 --> 00:33:31,752
Speaker 3: but I don't want to take a chance of drinking that

669
00:33:31,792 --> 00:33:34,671
Speaker 3: next thing he poisoned me. But when it came on

670
00:33:34,752 --> 00:33:38,711
Speaker 3: the newsbreak, come on, it became so surreal. Something he

671
00:33:38,752 --> 00:33:41,792
Speaker 3: is looking for me. Now it's going to get it's

672
00:33:41,792 --> 00:33:46,112
Speaker 3: going to get deep. I started to profusely cry. He

673
00:33:46,232 --> 00:33:49,751
Speaker 3: comes up, puts the gun to my temple, goes please please.

674
00:33:49,752 --> 00:33:50,511
Speaker 4: He's yelling at me.

675
00:33:50,832 --> 00:33:55,671
Speaker 3: He goes, damn it, don't make me kill you. I'm like,

676
00:33:55,992 --> 00:33:59,792
Speaker 3: don't make me kill you. Ah, I can use that.

677
00:34:00,112 --> 00:34:02,711
Speaker 3: So he's not planning to kill me. I knew that

678
00:34:02,792 --> 00:34:04,632
Speaker 3: right that moment. I knew he wasn't going to kill me.

679
00:34:05,152 --> 00:34:07,592
Speaker 3: So I had to think, mark on my feet at

680
00:34:07,632 --> 00:34:10,671
Speaker 3: any given moment, could he have a chance to kill me? Sure?

681
00:34:11,152 --> 00:34:13,312
Speaker 2: So did you think that way, because that sentence made

682
00:34:13,312 --> 00:34:15,712
Speaker 2: you think, Okay, he is not planning to kill me.

683
00:34:15,792 --> 00:34:16,752
Speaker 1: He doesn't want to kill me.

684
00:34:17,272 --> 00:34:21,672
Speaker 2: That he is he's looking for a reason to kill you,

685
00:34:21,832 --> 00:34:23,672
Speaker 2: or looking for a motivation to kill you.

686
00:34:23,712 --> 00:34:24,872
Speaker 1: And that hasn't happened yet.

687
00:34:25,511 --> 00:34:27,511
Speaker 4: Has it happened yet? I didn't fight him. I didn't

688
00:34:27,511 --> 00:34:30,671
Speaker 4: physically fight him. I never yelled at him. I did

689
00:34:30,712 --> 00:34:31,712
Speaker 4: have a conversation with him.

690
00:34:31,792 --> 00:34:36,511
Speaker 3: I said, you know again, why why are you doing me?

691
00:34:36,551 --> 00:34:38,192
Speaker 3: He told me he's getting back to women in general.

692
00:34:38,551 --> 00:34:41,272
Speaker 3: But after that incident, he got back in the bedroom

693
00:34:41,312 --> 00:34:43,152
Speaker 3: and by this time I got to use the bathroom.

694
00:34:43,152 --> 00:34:47,832
Speaker 3: I have to go pee, right and he wanted to

695
00:34:47,832 --> 00:34:50,712
Speaker 3: say no. And I could tell, just a sense of

696
00:34:50,792 --> 00:34:53,832
Speaker 3: him that he was a very clean cut for next door.

697
00:34:54,511 --> 00:34:56,352
Speaker 3: There was no way he was getting me pee in

698
00:34:56,392 --> 00:34:58,951
Speaker 3: the bed because I was I had a pee so bad.

699
00:34:59,592 --> 00:35:03,911
Speaker 3: So he gets to the bathroom, he goes, you got finance.

700
00:35:03,951 --> 00:35:06,832
Speaker 3: It's like I sat in the toilet. I can't I

701
00:35:06,991 --> 00:35:10,791
Speaker 3: make it. I'm birthday suit, the whole work, I cannot pee.

702
00:35:10,792 --> 00:35:13,832
Speaker 3: You stand there when this managed to rake me over

703
00:35:13,872 --> 00:35:15,872
Speaker 3: and over and over again, I needed my privacy.

704
00:35:16,392 --> 00:35:18,232
Speaker 4: He gave me my privacy and he shut the door.

705
00:35:18,232 --> 00:35:18,951
Speaker 4: You got five.

706
00:35:18,792 --> 00:35:23,192
Speaker 3: Minutes and that was it. Your fingerprints are your identity.

707
00:35:24,031 --> 00:35:26,872
Speaker 3: It laid everything back to you. I start printing fingerprints.

708
00:35:26,911 --> 00:35:30,111
Speaker 3: I took the toilet cover, put my fingerprints on your there,

709
00:35:30,312 --> 00:35:32,472
Speaker 3: underneath the toilet seat, all over the face of the toilet,

710
00:35:32,672 --> 00:35:37,152
Speaker 3: the shower curtain, prints on the shower, the tiles. He

711
00:35:37,192 --> 00:35:41,632
Speaker 3: had another stupid leupper print whatever chitah in the bathroom.

712
00:35:41,951 --> 00:35:44,792
Speaker 3: But under my blind floor, I kept seeing these sneakers.

713
00:35:44,832 --> 00:35:47,751
Speaker 3: I'm like, what is that, and then realizing right before

714
00:35:47,752 --> 00:35:50,392
Speaker 3: he busts the door down, I'm like, oh, it's a chicken.

715
00:35:51,072 --> 00:35:52,872
Speaker 3: Well turned out to be chicken. It was the old

716
00:35:52,951 --> 00:35:55,552
Speaker 3: kangaroo line they first came out, So the blue stripes

717
00:35:55,551 --> 00:35:57,431
Speaker 3: on east side the shoe and the outline of the

718
00:35:57,672 --> 00:36:00,192
Speaker 3: of the kangaroo, it was the kangaroo line.

719
00:36:00,352 --> 00:36:00,832
Speaker 4: I'm telling them.

720
00:36:00,832 --> 00:36:02,471
Speaker 3: The policemust thought it was crazy, and I said, he's

721
00:36:02,471 --> 00:36:04,472
Speaker 3: got a pair of sneakers with chicken on it. And

722
00:36:04,551 --> 00:36:07,112
Speaker 3: it taught to be the kangaroo line. But I was

723
00:36:07,192 --> 00:36:09,792
Speaker 3: right about it. And at one time ride the shower,

724
00:36:09,832 --> 00:36:11,232
Speaker 3: I forgot to say back up a little bit. He

725
00:36:11,272 --> 00:36:13,471
Speaker 3: actually having draw my hair too with the hair dryers.

726
00:36:13,511 --> 00:36:16,312
Speaker 3: Now my fingerprints on the hair dryer, medicine cabinet, the mirror,

727
00:36:16,431 --> 00:36:18,711
Speaker 3: the back of the mirror. I didn't want to put

728
00:36:18,752 --> 00:36:21,032
Speaker 3: too much on the mirror because I was thinking to myself,

729
00:36:21,072 --> 00:36:21,672
Speaker 3: he'll see.

730
00:36:21,511 --> 00:36:23,512
Speaker 2: My finger of friends here, putting any places that aren't

731
00:36:23,592 --> 00:36:24,951
Speaker 2: obvious concealed.

732
00:36:25,031 --> 00:36:28,352
Speaker 3: Ye, So if he had decided to kill me, at

733
00:36:28,471 --> 00:36:32,031
Speaker 3: least they knew I was trying to fight for my life.

734
00:36:32,712 --> 00:36:36,352
Speaker 2: Next, what happened when Bobby Joe Long let Lisa go

735
00:36:36,872 --> 00:36:40,071
Speaker 2: and she has to run for her life.

736
00:36:42,911 --> 00:36:47,992
Speaker 3: So lasted until next morning, almost four o'clock in the morning.

737
00:36:48,152 --> 00:36:51,392
Speaker 3: The rapes continued. It was I'm telling you what, it

738
00:36:51,431 --> 00:36:55,392
Speaker 3: was horrific, But again it was nothing I hadn't already

739
00:36:55,392 --> 00:36:58,471
Speaker 3: been through. I mean, the guy that was raping me

740
00:36:58,511 --> 00:37:00,671
Speaker 3: at home wasn't my dad, he was another man.

741
00:37:00,832 --> 00:37:03,071
Speaker 4: So it came to he asked me.

742
00:37:03,192 --> 00:37:06,352
Speaker 3: He woke up, got me dressed, put me in my

743
00:37:06,431 --> 00:37:09,152
Speaker 3: pants for work. But I guess my shirt, my white

744
00:37:09,192 --> 00:37:12,191
Speaker 3: shirt was too dirty. I don't know, but he ended

745
00:37:12,232 --> 00:37:15,111
Speaker 3: up putting me in a dark blue polo shirt my

746
00:37:15,152 --> 00:37:16,512
Speaker 3: parents have been one of the other.

747
00:37:16,431 --> 00:37:18,072
Speaker 4: Victim's shirts that he had.

748
00:37:18,592 --> 00:37:20,672
Speaker 3: I don't know as a souvenir, and I have seri curers.

749
00:37:20,672 --> 00:37:24,111
Speaker 3: They collect things. It was maribilia or oh that's the

750
00:37:24,112 --> 00:37:26,951
Speaker 3: one I enjoyed killing, you know, whatever it was. And

751
00:37:26,991 --> 00:37:29,431
Speaker 3: he asked me what am I supposed to do with you?

752
00:37:30,672 --> 00:37:33,432
Speaker 3: And I said, listen, and this is what I said.

753
00:37:33,951 --> 00:37:36,392
Speaker 3: I will be your girlfriend. I wann't have to tell

754
00:37:36,392 --> 00:37:39,511
Speaker 3: anybody how we met. I'll take good care of you.

755
00:37:40,352 --> 00:37:43,672
Speaker 3: I will love you the way you deserve to be loved. Right.

756
00:37:44,951 --> 00:37:48,312
Speaker 3: He's like, no, we can't do that, No, no, we

757
00:37:48,352 --> 00:37:51,991
Speaker 3: can't do that. And I said, listen, if you kill me,

758
00:37:52,392 --> 00:37:55,992
Speaker 3: I have a very sick father at home. He's all alone.

759
00:37:56,232 --> 00:37:59,551
Speaker 3: I am his only living relative. Same guy that's draping

760
00:37:59,592 --> 00:38:01,592
Speaker 3: me at home. Now, I'm saying he's my sick father

761
00:38:02,431 --> 00:38:06,312
Speaker 3: and didn't lie about sick because he was very sick.

762
00:38:07,031 --> 00:38:09,471
Speaker 3: But he wasn't my father and he was another abuser.

763
00:38:10,832 --> 00:38:13,551
Speaker 3: He goes, well, where do you live at? I'm sorry

764
00:38:13,551 --> 00:38:15,511
Speaker 3: where I live at? I started to live in the

765
00:38:15,511 --> 00:38:18,511
Speaker 3: welles Wood area, Okay, but wells World area is not

766
00:38:18,592 --> 00:38:21,272
Speaker 3: too far from my abduction. Right, So by the time

767
00:38:21,352 --> 00:38:24,232
Speaker 3: he got me, I was probably already into a mile

768
00:38:24,272 --> 00:38:26,272
Speaker 3: down the road. From Christoph Kreme, not even a mile,

769
00:38:26,471 --> 00:38:29,711
Speaker 3: maybe three quarters a mile. So he proceeds to get

770
00:38:29,712 --> 00:38:34,672
Speaker 3: me in the car fully clothed, stole blindfold, stole ligatures.

771
00:38:35,192 --> 00:38:37,832
Speaker 3: He stops at a bank, and of course same seats

772
00:38:37,832 --> 00:38:41,071
Speaker 3: recline it back. One important detail I do remember in

773
00:38:41,112 --> 00:38:46,551
Speaker 3: the car also was red carpet, that shag carpet. Not

774
00:38:46,752 --> 00:38:50,232
Speaker 3: realizing when I first was ordered my clothes off, I

775
00:38:50,352 --> 00:38:52,951
Speaker 3: was sir taking my feet and kind of my feet

776
00:38:52,951 --> 00:38:55,111
Speaker 3: were tied up. I couldn't move my feet. I would

777
00:38:55,152 --> 00:38:59,031
Speaker 3: I would inadvertently rub my clothes into those carpet fibers,

778
00:38:59,431 --> 00:39:02,712
Speaker 3: not realizing they're being transferred to my clothes. That's what

779
00:39:02,792 --> 00:39:04,712
Speaker 3: broke the case of them. By the way, we'll get

780
00:39:04,712 --> 00:39:04,872
Speaker 3: to that.

781
00:39:04,951 --> 00:39:05,552
Speaker 4: In a minute.

782
00:39:05,792 --> 00:39:07,712
Speaker 3: So he ends up going to a bank. I'm remaining

783
00:39:07,872 --> 00:39:10,471
Speaker 3: back and I can see how the light backs up.

784
00:39:10,511 --> 00:39:14,752
Speaker 3: His back is face in me. He's not overweight. You

785
00:39:14,792 --> 00:39:17,552
Speaker 3: could tell he's on the gym, but he's not small.

786
00:39:17,712 --> 00:39:20,511
Speaker 3: He's medium kind of build, not pudge or anything, but

787
00:39:20,872 --> 00:39:24,072
Speaker 3: he probably could lose a few pounds. Light blue jeans,

788
00:39:24,152 --> 00:39:28,872
Speaker 3: white T shirt, white sneakers, short haircut. I remember his

789
00:39:29,031 --> 00:39:32,352
Speaker 3: face because in his apartment at one time. I guess

790
00:39:32,431 --> 00:39:35,111
Speaker 3: where I gain his trust like a girlfriend boyfriend. He

791
00:39:35,152 --> 00:39:38,711
Speaker 3: made me touch his face. I saw it in my hands.

792
00:39:38,752 --> 00:39:41,072
Speaker 3: I could see it pop, I could feel part marks.

793
00:39:41,192 --> 00:39:43,031
Speaker 3: I almost like you to ask it when you're a child,

794
00:39:43,192 --> 00:39:46,272
Speaker 3: the drug ACCID. It just puts those crater potholes in

795
00:39:46,312 --> 00:39:49,792
Speaker 3: your face. Clean mustache, clean hairline, like I just got

796
00:39:49,792 --> 00:39:53,832
Speaker 3: a haircut, you know, thick eyebrows, not thick, but maintained

797
00:39:54,592 --> 00:39:58,071
Speaker 3: over face. I saw his face through my hands. It

798
00:39:58,112 --> 00:40:03,112
Speaker 3: was incredible. So all that again, I'm remembering. So he

799
00:40:03,152 --> 00:40:04,631
Speaker 3: gets in the car because he said he has something

800
00:40:04,712 --> 00:40:08,832
Speaker 3: the bank because he needed money for gas. Now I'm

801
00:40:08,832 --> 00:40:10,591
Speaker 3: trying to find an aora at. He goes to a

802
00:40:10,632 --> 00:40:13,151
Speaker 3: gas as he tells me, if you get out this car,

803
00:40:13,192 --> 00:40:14,991
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go kill the clerk and I'll come back after.

804
00:40:15,031 --> 00:40:17,232
Speaker 3: I'm going to kill you. I've gained the guy's trust.

805
00:40:17,232 --> 00:40:19,352
Speaker 3: Why would I do that. I'm not gonna have someone's

806
00:40:19,352 --> 00:40:22,432
Speaker 3: blood on my hands because I made a choice to run.

807
00:40:23,752 --> 00:40:27,272
Speaker 4: Was I scared? Yeah, but I had to stay calm and.

808
00:40:27,232 --> 00:40:28,591
Speaker 2: So at no point did you think this is my

809
00:40:28,632 --> 00:40:30,671
Speaker 2: opportunity to jump out of this car and run.

810
00:40:31,192 --> 00:40:35,312
Speaker 3: Nope? The movie shows I tried to jump out again theatrics.

811
00:40:35,431 --> 00:40:35,872
Speaker 3: We get it.

812
00:40:35,951 --> 00:40:36,511
Speaker 1: Yeah.

813
00:40:36,551 --> 00:40:39,551
Speaker 3: So he gets in the car and he's he's asked

814
00:40:39,592 --> 00:40:42,232
Speaker 3: me where we go? I said, get off at Interstate

815
00:40:42,232 --> 00:40:45,312
Speaker 3: two centy five in Hillsborough. I live in the area.

816
00:40:45,431 --> 00:40:46,872
Speaker 3: I don't want him take it into my house because

817
00:40:46,872 --> 00:40:50,631
Speaker 3: I don't. I'm seeing where I live, right. So he

818
00:40:50,672 --> 00:40:54,232
Speaker 3: gets off the interstate. He passes Hillsborn Rome. Now, I

819
00:40:54,312 --> 00:40:57,752
Speaker 3: was abducted at sly in Rome. Hillsburn Rome is the

820
00:40:57,792 --> 00:41:01,152
Speaker 3: next major cross street down from Sly, probably a good

821
00:41:01,312 --> 00:41:05,272
Speaker 3: mile and a half down the road. He passes it.

822
00:41:05,511 --> 00:41:07,792
Speaker 3: He is screwed. You mean for fanities at me. I

823
00:41:07,792 --> 00:41:10,551
Speaker 3: don't want to repeat them. Who's calling me everything you

824
00:41:10,712 --> 00:41:12,951
Speaker 3: think of? You lied to me, this stuff, the area

825
00:41:12,951 --> 00:41:15,151
Speaker 3: you live in. It's like, where are you at? I'm

826
00:41:15,192 --> 00:41:18,992
Speaker 3: at Mendon Hall, Great men in Hall, busts a yuie.

827
00:41:18,991 --> 00:41:21,071
Speaker 3: I went to Mendehall Elementary School, so in my head

828
00:41:21,072 --> 00:41:23,071
Speaker 3: I knew where I was at. He was just one

829
00:41:23,112 --> 00:41:26,152
Speaker 3: block over from the light. We were heading westbound. He

830
00:41:26,352 --> 00:41:30,111
Speaker 3: makes you turn headed back eastbound and at Hillsboro Rome

831
00:41:30,312 --> 00:41:34,271
Speaker 3: on the southeast corner was another church. So if God

832
00:41:34,312 --> 00:41:38,392
Speaker 3: didn't have a hand in me getting you know, free

833
00:41:39,031 --> 00:41:41,671
Speaker 3: it was a blessing. He goes into you know what's

834
00:41:41,712 --> 00:41:44,791
Speaker 3: going down two lanes and then you run, uh cut

835
00:41:44,832 --> 00:41:48,911
Speaker 3: over into a turn lane to like cross over westbound lanes.

836
00:41:49,152 --> 00:41:51,431
Speaker 3: So he got got like, I don't I don't recall

837
00:41:51,471 --> 00:41:53,951
Speaker 3: those little cutouts for a turn lane. But then he

838
00:41:54,031 --> 00:41:55,792
Speaker 3: ends up going He makes a huge turn, goes back

839
00:41:55,832 --> 00:41:57,911
Speaker 3: westbound and pulls into a parking lot on the north

840
00:41:57,951 --> 00:42:00,591
Speaker 3: side of the road, Hillsborn Rome, And when he pulled in,

841
00:42:01,031 --> 00:42:03,872
Speaker 3: he's from his cars facing north. He stops the car,

842
00:42:04,272 --> 00:42:08,152
Speaker 3: hugs me, has a baseball cap on. Now. He says,

843
00:42:08,872 --> 00:42:13,551
Speaker 3: tell your father, and this is so so weird, right,

844
00:42:13,792 --> 00:42:17,312
Speaker 3: tell your arm it was weird, poet adjusted, I don't

845
00:42:17,312 --> 00:42:19,832
Speaker 3: know what it was. Tell your father's because of him.

846
00:42:19,991 --> 00:42:24,592
Speaker 3: I'm letting your live, not realizing he wasn't my father.

847
00:42:24,991 --> 00:42:27,951
Speaker 3: He he was just like him a monster. I'm like, okay,

848
00:42:28,031 --> 00:42:31,272
Speaker 3: no problem. He gets out of the car and I

849
00:42:31,431 --> 00:42:33,792
Speaker 3: was just gonna let me stand there, take me out

850
00:42:33,832 --> 00:42:38,392
Speaker 3: and drive off. He proceeds to take my hand and

851
00:42:38,471 --> 00:42:41,672
Speaker 3: walk me to a curb. And the curb is like

852
00:42:41,792 --> 00:42:44,631
Speaker 3: a half moon, you know, and there was a tree there,

853
00:42:45,232 --> 00:42:49,431
Speaker 3: so the curb is encasing the tree in the middle.

854
00:42:49,471 --> 00:42:51,591
Speaker 3: I don't see the tree yet, but when I walk

855
00:42:51,752 --> 00:42:54,992
Speaker 3: was walking, I actually almost fell for because my shoes

856
00:42:55,152 --> 00:42:57,592
Speaker 3: hit the curb. Because it's dark, I couldn't really see

857
00:42:57,832 --> 00:42:59,511
Speaker 3: he because you got five minutes stay here until I

858
00:42:59,551 --> 00:43:00,031
Speaker 3: drive off.

859
00:43:00,312 --> 00:43:01,792
Speaker 4: Okay, so he drives off.

860
00:43:02,232 --> 00:43:04,192
Speaker 3: I put my blindfold down and the first thing I

861
00:43:04,192 --> 00:43:06,832
Speaker 3: saw was this beautiful, huge oak tree, which is still

862
00:43:06,832 --> 00:43:11,232
Speaker 3: there by the way fifteen fifteen West Hillsborough Avenue. You

863
00:43:11,272 --> 00:43:12,911
Speaker 3: used to be an eye opt to go outlet place.

864
00:43:12,991 --> 00:43:16,511
Speaker 3: Now it's a oil testing facility for jet.

865
00:43:16,272 --> 00:43:19,111
Speaker 4: Fuel for airplanes. And I've met the people there.

866
00:43:19,112 --> 00:43:20,792
Speaker 3: They won't They were almost going to tear the tree down,

867
00:43:20,832 --> 00:43:24,872
Speaker 3: but they kept it up. So anyhow, Yeah, so when

868
00:43:24,872 --> 00:43:26,431
Speaker 3: I get a memorial there, I talked about that in

869
00:43:26,471 --> 00:43:27,032
Speaker 3: a minute.

870
00:43:27,112 --> 00:43:28,672
Speaker 4: So when I looked at this tree.

871
00:43:28,471 --> 00:43:29,111
Speaker 3: It was like.

872
00:43:30,712 --> 00:43:33,632
Speaker 4: Branches of life, new life, living water, God.

873
00:43:33,951 --> 00:43:38,232
Speaker 3: And I'm thinking this, I'm like, wait a minute, my life's.

874
00:43:37,951 --> 00:43:40,992
Speaker 4: About changed for the better. I think tag number.

875
00:43:41,072 --> 00:43:42,392
Speaker 3: I got to get his tag number, but by the

876
00:43:42,431 --> 00:43:44,632
Speaker 3: time I turned around to run out to the street,

877
00:43:44,832 --> 00:43:47,111
Speaker 3: he was gone. And that's when I saw the other church.

878
00:43:47,872 --> 00:43:50,392
Speaker 3: And I sat in the curb thinking there was like

879
00:43:50,392 --> 00:43:53,952
Speaker 3: a like railroad ties that made an up like wall

880
00:43:54,072 --> 00:43:58,472
Speaker 3: for the for the business. I sat there for a minute, thinking, run,

881
00:43:59,352 --> 00:44:02,992
Speaker 3: he's coming back for you. Run he's gone, thinking a mistake. Run.

882
00:44:03,632 --> 00:44:05,792
Speaker 3: I never run so fast. I think I was faster

883
00:44:05,832 --> 00:44:08,511
Speaker 3: than the trucks are Olympic track star. I ran so

884
00:44:08,632 --> 00:44:11,191
Speaker 3: fast because I knew, for some reason, my grandmother would

885
00:44:11,232 --> 00:44:14,071
Speaker 3: be at myr that guy's house, because remember she'd moved out.

886
00:44:14,951 --> 00:44:17,752
Speaker 3: So I ran, and every time my car by me

887
00:44:18,112 --> 00:44:21,472
Speaker 3: the drainage ditch that goes into the drains for rains

888
00:44:21,471 --> 00:44:23,392
Speaker 3: of the gutters, I just throw myself in them in

889
00:44:23,471 --> 00:44:25,272
Speaker 3: a car and box, thinking it was him. And at

890
00:44:25,272 --> 00:44:28,471
Speaker 3: one point I felt like he was driving by to

891
00:44:29,592 --> 00:44:32,232
Speaker 3: see if you can find me again, and then I

892
00:44:32,312 --> 00:44:34,712
Speaker 3: hit by the car. I did everything I could have

893
00:44:34,832 --> 00:44:37,071
Speaker 3: hit by a hide a car. I finally get home.

894
00:44:37,152 --> 00:44:39,032
Speaker 3: I mean it was it was quite a distance to run.

895
00:44:39,232 --> 00:44:40,471
Speaker 3: I could have been a home in five minutes in

896
00:44:40,551 --> 00:44:42,352
Speaker 3: a car, but it was quite a distance to get home.

897
00:44:42,752 --> 00:44:45,071
Speaker 3: I kept banging on the door and banging on the door,

898
00:44:45,551 --> 00:44:48,951
Speaker 3: as finally my grandmother opened the door, and then her

899
00:44:48,951 --> 00:44:51,792
Speaker 3: boyfriend came and grabbed my hair, and I must have

900
00:44:52,031 --> 00:44:56,352
Speaker 3: ensued a five hour beating interrogation. Where have you been?

901
00:44:56,752 --> 00:44:58,551
Speaker 4: Who were you screwing them around.

902
00:44:58,312 --> 00:45:00,551
Speaker 3: With out there? Who you cheating on me with?

903
00:45:00,672 --> 00:45:01,392
Speaker 4: It was awful.

904
00:45:01,712 --> 00:45:06,992
Speaker 3: I kept saying, I've been abducted, I'd been raped again again,

905
00:45:07,072 --> 00:45:08,551
Speaker 3: I'd been raped. You know what you do to me?

906
00:45:08,672 --> 00:45:12,272
Speaker 3: And he didn't like that too much. My grandmother finally said,

907
00:45:12,712 --> 00:45:16,951
Speaker 3: enough's enough. Let's call the police and learn nos his home. Well, originally,

908
00:45:17,072 --> 00:45:21,111
Speaker 3: when I can't missing, I found out that they weren't

909
00:45:21,112 --> 00:45:24,191
Speaker 3: even looking for me when I didn't come home from

910
00:45:24,232 --> 00:45:27,111
Speaker 3: more about eight or nine or ten hours later, they

911
00:45:27,152 --> 00:45:28,792
Speaker 3: decided to call the police, saying that I was a

912
00:45:28,832 --> 00:45:31,431
Speaker 3: hippotter runaway and I hadn't come home. Then why would

913
00:45:31,431 --> 00:45:33,911
Speaker 3: we report me run away? I never ran away, especially

914
00:45:33,911 --> 00:45:36,551
Speaker 3: with the serial killer out there, Why would I do that?

915
00:45:36,712 --> 00:45:39,832
Speaker 3: You know? So my grandmother proceeds to call the police.

916
00:45:39,832 --> 00:45:42,992
Speaker 3: The local police was called the Tampa Police Department, and

917
00:45:43,232 --> 00:45:46,552
Speaker 3: she was saying, she's home, like I told your officers,

918
00:45:46,632 --> 00:45:48,591
Speaker 3: she runs away, gone for a couple of days, she

919
00:45:48,672 --> 00:45:50,991
Speaker 3: comes back, but now she's making some story up that

920
00:45:51,072 --> 00:45:54,511
Speaker 3: she got kidnapped. I don't know who this police officer was,

921
00:45:55,152 --> 00:45:59,392
Speaker 3: but I mought my life because had he not listened

922
00:45:59,392 --> 00:46:03,471
Speaker 3: to what she said, I probably probably I'm pretty much

923
00:46:03,832 --> 00:46:06,071
Speaker 3: one hundred percent sure I would have went through my suicide.

924
00:46:06,712 --> 00:46:09,552
Speaker 3: He says. She's saying she's a victim of a kidnapped. Kidnapping.

925
00:46:09,632 --> 00:46:12,312
Speaker 3: She goes, yes, sir, it's all I. Well, man, we're

926
00:46:12,312 --> 00:46:14,631
Speaker 3: got to investigate that. And that's when they came and

927
00:46:14,672 --> 00:46:17,792
Speaker 3: got me. Unfortunately, I had to go to the hospital

928
00:46:17,792 --> 00:46:18,912
Speaker 3: back then, not like today.

929
00:46:19,272 --> 00:46:20,471
Speaker 4: I didn't have a victim advocate.

930
00:46:20,792 --> 00:46:23,031
Speaker 3: I had to go to the hospital, have strangers look

931
00:46:23,031 --> 00:46:23,872
Speaker 3: at me naked again.

932
00:46:24,352 --> 00:46:25,191
Speaker 4: I had to get my.

933
00:46:25,232 --> 00:46:29,552
Speaker 3: Mouth swab, I had to get puba cares pulled, hairs

934
00:46:29,551 --> 00:46:32,672
Speaker 3: from my head pulled. I had to go through a

935
00:46:32,792 --> 00:46:36,591
Speaker 3: rape kit and entails of them taking a camera as

936
00:46:36,632 --> 00:46:40,992
Speaker 3: close as they can to the vaginal region, taking swabs

937
00:46:41,031 --> 00:46:43,672
Speaker 3: down there first, seventeen year old. Now I'm being I

938
00:46:43,672 --> 00:46:46,191
Speaker 3: feel like I was being traumatized all over again, right,

939
00:46:46,592 --> 00:46:47,631
Speaker 3: But we had to do it.

940
00:46:47,832 --> 00:46:49,991
Speaker 2: And did you have anyone there with you to support

941
00:46:50,031 --> 00:46:52,752
Speaker 2: you that? So you were just there with like doctors,

942
00:46:52,872 --> 00:46:55,832
Speaker 2: nurses and police officers and the p Yeah.

943
00:46:55,951 --> 00:46:58,592
Speaker 3: Yes, they would stand by door and guard the door,

944
00:46:59,031 --> 00:47:01,432
Speaker 3: you know, because now you know I'm victim of a crime,

945
00:47:01,911 --> 00:47:03,872
Speaker 3: so they collected my clothes.

946
00:47:03,951 --> 00:47:05,951
Speaker 4: Of course, I had to wear paper clothes.

947
00:47:05,712 --> 00:47:08,271
Speaker 3: Until they if I'm closed to put on and then

948
00:47:08,431 --> 00:47:11,511
Speaker 3: I was taken down to the police station to give

949
00:47:11,551 --> 00:47:15,472
Speaker 3: them a statement. State would never changed doing what happened,

950
00:47:16,072 --> 00:47:18,832
Speaker 3: So I'm about the clues left behind. They decided to

951
00:47:18,832 --> 00:47:20,512
Speaker 3: send in a female cop.

952
00:47:20,951 --> 00:47:23,512
Speaker 1: So you thought maybe you'd be listened to by another woman.

953
00:47:24,112 --> 00:47:26,991
Speaker 3: No, I didn't want a female cop. The reason why

954
00:47:27,031 --> 00:47:29,272
Speaker 3: is because the two people I try to tell my

955
00:47:29,352 --> 00:47:31,431
Speaker 3: mom what was going on at my grandma's house and

956
00:47:31,471 --> 00:47:34,152
Speaker 3: she won't listen to me. The two women in my

957
00:47:34,192 --> 00:47:36,511
Speaker 3: life that were supposed to protect, nurture and love me

958
00:47:36,951 --> 00:47:40,312
Speaker 3: failed me. Yeah, I didn't want another female to talk to.

959
00:47:40,832 --> 00:47:44,752
Speaker 3: I felt like she wouldn't believe me. My suspicion was correct.

960
00:47:44,872 --> 00:47:45,712
Speaker 3: She didn't believe me.

961
00:47:45,752 --> 00:47:48,031
Speaker 1: Why didn't they believe you? Was it because you were

962
00:47:48,431 --> 00:47:50,152
Speaker 1: so I was so calm?

963
00:47:50,592 --> 00:47:53,151
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that you'd collected so much information in that

964
00:47:53,232 --> 00:47:54,352
Speaker 2: time of trauma.

965
00:47:54,511 --> 00:47:59,111
Speaker 3: Yes, they couldn't understand how I remember everything because they

966
00:47:59,352 --> 00:48:01,352
Speaker 3: not put in two or two together that I was

967
00:48:01,392 --> 00:48:04,471
Speaker 3: also a victim of another crime. My grandma's boyfriend who

968
00:48:04,471 --> 00:48:07,352
Speaker 3: has been raking me for four years because if I

969
00:48:07,392 --> 00:48:09,592
Speaker 3: had say a thing, I was in fear of retaliation.

970
00:48:09,712 --> 00:48:12,832
Speaker 3: He would hurt my family, my mom my siblings, my

971
00:48:12,872 --> 00:48:15,792
Speaker 3: grand even my grandmother. Even though she allowed this man

972
00:48:15,872 --> 00:48:19,071
Speaker 3: to do this to me, she'd watched sometimes, I still

973
00:48:19,072 --> 00:48:20,551
Speaker 3: don't want to hurt it her because she still was

974
00:48:20,551 --> 00:48:24,672
Speaker 3: my maternal grandmother. So I sat down with this lady,

975
00:48:24,672 --> 00:48:27,551
Speaker 3: and she also talked about what was her cat, trying

976
00:48:27,551 --> 00:48:30,231
Speaker 3: to build a rapport with me. I said, the more

977
00:48:30,272 --> 00:48:34,472
Speaker 3: you talk about your cat, the time is of essence

978
00:48:34,511 --> 00:48:36,911
Speaker 3: to catch this guy so he doesn't do to somebody else.

979
00:48:36,951 --> 00:48:38,951
Speaker 3: How A would we go look for him. It's finally

980
00:48:38,991 --> 00:48:40,511
Speaker 3: she got I think she got fed up with me.

981
00:48:40,951 --> 00:48:44,392
Speaker 3: I wasn't your normal seventeen year old girl. I wasn't

982
00:48:44,392 --> 00:48:46,432
Speaker 3: the book smart girl. I mean I was book smart,

983
00:48:46,511 --> 00:48:49,031
Speaker 3: but I was more street. I was very intelligent. I

984
00:48:49,272 --> 00:48:51,872
Speaker 3: like to think I'm still intelligent. You know. She finally

985
00:48:52,072 --> 00:48:54,312
Speaker 3: says she's gonna go get me something to drink water Coke.

986
00:48:54,392 --> 00:48:57,312
Speaker 3: I said, no coke, I don't want any That triggered me.

987
00:48:57,352 --> 00:48:59,752
Speaker 3: I don't want any any pop. The door was cracked

988
00:48:59,752 --> 00:49:01,832
Speaker 3: and I hurt her. Somebody having a conversation with the

989
00:49:02,072 --> 00:49:04,552
Speaker 3: I guess was an officer staying by a door another officer.

990
00:49:05,072 --> 00:49:06,872
Speaker 3: He goes, so, how is it going on? And they're like, well,

991
00:49:06,911 --> 00:49:08,792
Speaker 3: you know, there's to me a holes in her story.

992
00:49:08,991 --> 00:49:11,031
Speaker 3: She comes back in. I was like, I want to

993
00:49:11,072 --> 00:49:11,431
Speaker 3: go home.

994
00:49:12,112 --> 00:49:13,911
Speaker 4: No, we're going to finish the interview. Oh, we're done

995
00:49:13,951 --> 00:49:14,512
Speaker 4: with the interview.

996
00:49:15,112 --> 00:49:16,752
Speaker 3: I want someone who's going to listen to me and

997
00:49:16,792 --> 00:49:19,591
Speaker 3: believe my story and not sat outside the room and

998
00:49:19,872 --> 00:49:22,431
Speaker 3: thinking that there's holes in my story. I want to

999
00:49:22,471 --> 00:49:22,791
Speaker 3: go home.

1000
00:49:23,991 --> 00:49:26,312
Speaker 4: I'm at home, not naming for a day.

1001
00:49:26,352 --> 00:49:28,631
Speaker 3: The next day they came and got me, or they

1002
00:49:28,672 --> 00:49:30,312
Speaker 3: sent someone to the house to interview in your house

1003
00:49:31,272 --> 00:49:34,312
Speaker 3: they felt maybe I felt uncomfortable out the station. Well,

1004
00:49:34,352 --> 00:49:36,712
Speaker 3: my grandmother and grandma's boyfriend. Why they listened in the

1005
00:49:36,752 --> 00:49:38,712
Speaker 3: other room for at me. If I say a thing

1006
00:49:38,752 --> 00:49:41,672
Speaker 3: about home life, he'd come out and hurt the officer

1007
00:49:41,872 --> 00:49:44,431
Speaker 3: or the detective and hurt me. Because they had a

1008
00:49:44,431 --> 00:49:48,911
Speaker 3: two way speakerphone on the phone, so that would work out.

1009
00:49:49,511 --> 00:49:52,991
Speaker 3: The third time I go down, finally send someone them

1010
00:49:53,031 --> 00:49:56,272
Speaker 3: some common sense. It was a sergeant Larry Pingerton. He

1011
00:49:56,352 --> 00:50:00,712
Speaker 3: was in charge of the sexual children, violent crime section.

1012
00:50:00,872 --> 00:50:04,431
Speaker 3: Whatever it was, so at this time I'm fed up

1013
00:50:04,431 --> 00:50:09,152
Speaker 3: with the female. Sure, I'm sitting on some couch or

1014
00:50:09,192 --> 00:50:11,472
Speaker 3: something in the office. I was crying and he walks

1015
00:50:11,511 --> 00:50:14,111
Speaker 3: in and I'm curling a little ball and I'm just

1016
00:50:14,152 --> 00:50:16,631
Speaker 3: like one. No one's believing me, no one, what are

1017
00:50:16,632 --> 00:50:18,911
Speaker 3: we doing. We've got to catch this guy. He walked in.

1018
00:50:18,991 --> 00:50:21,191
Speaker 3: He goes, and I remember him saying, and I haven't

1019
00:50:21,232 --> 00:50:24,591
Speaker 3: head down like this. I remember him saying, she's just

1020
00:50:24,632 --> 00:50:28,872
Speaker 3: a child. I looked up and I'm like okay, and

1021
00:50:28,911 --> 00:50:31,352
Speaker 3: he just looked at me. He goes, we haven't even

1022
00:50:31,352 --> 00:50:35,071
Speaker 3: talked yet. And I was crying, and just the desperation

1023
00:50:35,152 --> 00:50:37,352
Speaker 3: on my face, or like, we've got to catch this guy.

1024
00:50:37,392 --> 00:50:39,592
Speaker 3: I was all about catching the guy, not just telling

1025
00:50:39,632 --> 00:50:42,112
Speaker 3: my story. I want to be part of this guy's capture.

1026
00:50:43,072 --> 00:50:46,911
Speaker 3: I'm seventeen, twenty four hours before I wanted to kill myself.

1027
00:50:48,031 --> 00:50:50,951
Speaker 3: Looked at me, he goes, I believe you. I am

1028
00:50:50,951 --> 00:50:53,752
Speaker 3: Sergeant Larry Pinkerton. Would you want to talk to me.

1029
00:50:54,752 --> 00:50:58,352
Speaker 3: I'm like, if you listen, I'll talk. We sat there

1030
00:50:58,352 --> 00:51:01,631
Speaker 3: and we talked for a while. I sold everything to

1031
00:51:01,672 --> 00:51:05,552
Speaker 3: the tea. My story never changed, no holes in my story.

1032
00:51:06,312 --> 00:51:09,591
Speaker 3: He has this great idea of getting me hypnotized. I

1033
00:51:09,592 --> 00:51:12,312
Speaker 3: don't know what hypnotism means when I'm seventeen years old.

1034
00:51:12,951 --> 00:51:14,832
Speaker 3: They want to see because I talk about touching his

1035
00:51:14,872 --> 00:51:17,392
Speaker 3: face and I say, well, I know what it looks like.

1036
00:51:17,431 --> 00:51:19,832
Speaker 3: Do you think you can do a sketch artist whatever?

1037
00:51:20,031 --> 00:51:22,551
Speaker 3: I said, possibly. Then he said hypnotize and love. What

1038
00:51:22,632 --> 00:51:25,712
Speaker 3: is that? I guess you have some counselor psychologist come

1039
00:51:25,792 --> 00:51:28,471
Speaker 3: in that can hypnotize you to see if subconsciously I

1040
00:51:28,511 --> 00:51:31,632
Speaker 3: actually actually literally physically saw his face in my eyes.

1041
00:51:31,911 --> 00:51:34,272
Speaker 3: I did a visual and not realized and I saw

1042
00:51:34,272 --> 00:51:36,752
Speaker 3: his face. You know what I'm saying. So he had

1043
00:51:36,792 --> 00:51:41,592
Speaker 3: called home and asked them that they have their permission

1044
00:51:42,072 --> 00:51:44,951
Speaker 3: because I'm seventeen. Of course no, he said, no, she

1045
00:51:45,031 --> 00:51:48,712
Speaker 3: needs to come home, do her chores. Go home. The

1046
00:51:48,792 --> 00:51:51,991
Speaker 3: next day I called Tampa Police Department, get a hold

1047
00:51:51,991 --> 00:51:54,392
Speaker 3: of Larry Pickton. I had some information of who my

1048
00:51:54,511 --> 00:51:58,352
Speaker 3: doctor is. When you first walk into my grandmar's boyfriend's house,

1049
00:51:58,712 --> 00:52:02,712
Speaker 3: living room garage to the right, there was in the

1050
00:52:02,752 --> 00:52:04,792
Speaker 3: corner was the kitchen, but it was closed off, and then

1051
00:52:05,152 --> 00:52:10,192
Speaker 3: a dining area. The nineteen seventies flor Micah tabletop metal

1052
00:52:10,592 --> 00:52:14,711
Speaker 3: rim and those really hard plastic chairs. Yeah. See how

1053
00:52:14,752 --> 00:52:17,551
Speaker 3: detail am I remember that? And the chair pattern was

1054
00:52:17,592 --> 00:52:21,031
Speaker 3: red sparkly. Well. They had like a nineteen inch TV

1055
00:52:21,152 --> 00:52:25,591
Speaker 3: black and white color TV sometimes colors on those was

1056
00:52:25,632 --> 00:52:26,991
Speaker 3: black and white.

1057
00:52:27,112 --> 00:52:28,431
Speaker 4: I was walking by to go.

1058
00:52:28,352 --> 00:52:32,872
Speaker 3: To the kitchen for something, speaking to myself, I got it,

1059
00:52:32,991 --> 00:52:35,711
Speaker 3: I got it, I got we got to catch this guy.

1060
00:52:36,152 --> 00:52:38,071
Speaker 3: And a news break came on. They have recovered a

1061
00:52:38,112 --> 00:52:42,192
Speaker 3: dead body. Another dead body. I stopped in my tracks,

1062
00:52:42,872 --> 00:52:45,592
Speaker 3: the hairs on the back of my neck. Up until

1063
00:52:45,632 --> 00:52:49,272
Speaker 3: that day, I never even thought my doctor could be

1064
00:52:49,312 --> 00:52:54,591
Speaker 3: the serial killer. And I'm like, oh my god, my

1065
00:52:54,792 --> 00:53:01,752
Speaker 3: doctor's serial killer. I just knew it. Intuition, got instinct,

1066
00:53:02,072 --> 00:53:05,071
Speaker 3: I don't know. So they sent a car for me.

1067
00:53:05,632 --> 00:53:09,031
Speaker 3: I went down there. Larry comes in there, he sits down.

1068
00:53:09,352 --> 00:53:11,591
Speaker 3: I tell him what's going on. The movie shows It

1069
00:53:11,632 --> 00:53:13,631
Speaker 3: makes it sound like he figured out that I was

1070
00:53:13,872 --> 00:53:15,231
Speaker 3: in connected with the serial killer.

1071
00:53:15,712 --> 00:53:17,872
Speaker 4: I'm the one that said, I'm telling you this is

1072
00:53:17,911 --> 00:53:18,231
Speaker 4: the guy.

1073
00:53:19,272 --> 00:53:22,312
Speaker 3: So we're sitting herds talking and again he offered to

1074
00:53:22,352 --> 00:53:26,471
Speaker 3: get me hypnotized. Again, calls dad or whatever, calls my

1075
00:53:26,511 --> 00:53:32,152
Speaker 3: grandma's boyfriend, says, no center home. He comes in. I

1076
00:53:32,232 --> 00:53:34,951
Speaker 3: love Larry because I've used this tactic before in some

1077
00:53:35,031 --> 00:53:39,511
Speaker 3: cases I work at the sheriff's office, takes his wallet out,

1078
00:53:39,911 --> 00:53:43,152
Speaker 3: pictures of his family fall, his wife and his daughter.

1079
00:53:44,152 --> 00:53:47,272
Speaker 3: You know, me being a father and being a husband,

1080
00:53:48,031 --> 00:53:50,872
Speaker 3: I would do everything I can to be on my

1081
00:53:50,951 --> 00:53:52,631
Speaker 3: daughter's side to help catch whoever it.

1082
00:53:52,672 --> 00:53:53,392
Speaker 4: Is to my daughter.

1083
00:53:53,991 --> 00:53:56,352
Speaker 3: And I started crying, do you want to tell me

1084
00:53:56,352 --> 00:53:57,191
Speaker 3: what's going on at home?

1085
00:53:57,232 --> 00:53:59,712
Speaker 4: Now? I guess he must have done research.

1086
00:53:59,792 --> 00:54:03,312
Speaker 3: Knowing detectors come to the school CHILDY was investigators and

1087
00:54:03,352 --> 00:54:06,111
Speaker 3: that was it. I unloaded. I've always wanted a father,

1088
00:54:06,551 --> 00:54:09,031
Speaker 3: this is what's going on, and he personally went arrested him.

1089
00:54:09,232 --> 00:54:11,832
Speaker 3: I don't know how my grandmother did get arrested. I

1090
00:54:11,872 --> 00:54:15,672
Speaker 3: don't know how the TV producers of Lifetime knew the

1091
00:54:15,672 --> 00:54:19,471
Speaker 3: grandmother they used as the actress in my movie. When

1092
00:54:19,511 --> 00:54:22,911
Speaker 3: I was on set of the movie, Lifetime believed me

1093
00:54:23,272 --> 00:54:24,911
Speaker 3: the first time I saw her on screen because I

1094
00:54:24,951 --> 00:54:26,671
Speaker 3: had headphones on looking to screen in the back when

1095
00:54:26,672 --> 00:54:27,432
Speaker 3: she's acting.

1096
00:54:28,312 --> 00:54:29,951
Speaker 4: She could have been my grandmother's.

1097
00:54:29,471 --> 00:54:33,551
Speaker 3: Double, just like her. It was amazing they never arrested her.

1098
00:54:33,592 --> 00:54:35,832
Speaker 3: I don't know why she had a hand in it.

1099
00:54:35,991 --> 00:54:37,792
Speaker 3: She's the one who sat me down one day after

1100
00:54:37,832 --> 00:54:39,591
Speaker 3: I lived there for six months, said, this man's going

1101
00:54:39,632 --> 00:54:40,711
Speaker 3: to teach you how to please a man.

1102
00:54:40,832 --> 00:54:42,752
Speaker 4: She said that to me. I didn't know what she

1103
00:54:42,792 --> 00:54:43,472
Speaker 4: was talking about.

1104
00:54:44,112 --> 00:54:46,431
Speaker 3: Later did I know? She ended up raping my own

1105
00:54:46,471 --> 00:54:49,592
Speaker 3: mom and apparently my uncle too when they were little.

1106
00:54:49,991 --> 00:54:52,352
Speaker 3: So the change never got broken with my mom, and

1107
00:54:52,392 --> 00:54:54,712
Speaker 3: God blessed my mom. She just didn't know how. But

1108
00:54:56,031 --> 00:54:58,631
Speaker 3: I was to the point I had to do it

1109
00:54:58,672 --> 00:55:01,911
Speaker 3: and to catch this guy. So I was removed from

1110
00:55:01,911 --> 00:55:04,312
Speaker 3: the house. I was put at another Detextis house for

1111
00:55:04,312 --> 00:55:07,431
Speaker 3: two weeks. I couldn't watch TV, read the news, even

1112
00:55:07,592 --> 00:55:10,111
Speaker 3: to a radio because they were trying to track them down.

1113
00:55:10,672 --> 00:55:12,671
Speaker 3: But I will be going down to the police station

1114
00:55:12,752 --> 00:55:16,672
Speaker 3: every day trying to help them put pieces together. Like example,

1115
00:55:17,152 --> 00:55:19,312
Speaker 3: would you ride around the car with your eyes closed

1116
00:55:20,471 --> 00:55:22,511
Speaker 3: when we get to where we were at the park

1117
00:55:22,592 --> 00:55:23,832
Speaker 3: lot of the church and every thing, would you be

1118
00:55:23,911 --> 00:55:25,511
Speaker 3: willing to do That's like, absolutely, let's do it.

1119
00:55:25,991 --> 00:55:27,151
Speaker 4: He goes, you're gonna be okay with that.

1120
00:55:27,152 --> 00:55:29,392
Speaker 3: It's like, let's do it. I'd ride in a car

1121
00:55:29,431 --> 00:55:31,312
Speaker 3: with them cent a direction and we got in an

1122
00:55:31,312 --> 00:55:33,471
Speaker 3: area of where he may have taken me to, and

1123
00:55:33,471 --> 00:55:37,591
Speaker 3: then they start doing surveillance on him. The two things

1124
00:55:37,991 --> 00:55:39,592
Speaker 3: for got to tell you this what was really important.

1125
00:55:39,672 --> 00:55:42,672
Speaker 3: I'll way back from my abduction, before he dropped me off,

1126
00:55:43,392 --> 00:55:45,192
Speaker 3: I could see eveneath my blindfold bedf foreg got on

1127
00:55:45,232 --> 00:55:48,911
Speaker 3: the interstate and I saw two marquees, the Quality Inn

1128
00:55:49,072 --> 00:55:51,472
Speaker 3: and the Howard Johnson, and they were on the opposite

1129
00:55:51,471 --> 00:55:53,471
Speaker 3: side of the Interstate, one on the west side, one

1130
00:55:53,471 --> 00:55:55,752
Speaker 3: on the east side. I can't remember which hotel it

1131
00:55:55,792 --> 00:55:57,712
Speaker 3: was in the east or west, but that I knew.

1132
00:55:57,872 --> 00:56:00,272
Speaker 3: I was at two Sentay five and Fouler Avenue. I

1133
00:56:00,352 --> 00:56:02,951
Speaker 3: knew my town. I used to ride a bicycle. I

1134
00:56:02,991 --> 00:56:07,272
Speaker 3: knew streets, so I knew landmarks. And when I told

1135
00:56:07,312 --> 00:56:09,792
Speaker 3: him that, they took detectives all the way down the corridor,

1136
00:56:10,031 --> 00:56:12,832
Speaker 3: file out in the eastbound from the Interstate, going to

1137
00:56:12,911 --> 00:56:16,112
Speaker 3: banks to gas stations, and they found a bank statement,

1138
00:56:16,392 --> 00:56:20,431
Speaker 3: and they ran his car onto the surveillance. They found

1139
00:56:20,471 --> 00:56:23,672
Speaker 3: his tag number and the tag came up Robert Drolong

1140
00:56:24,152 --> 00:56:27,752
Speaker 3: and a corincide with the bank statement. Robert Drolong withdrew

1141
00:56:27,792 --> 00:56:29,951
Speaker 3: this amount of money. So and that's how they was

1142
00:56:29,951 --> 00:56:32,071
Speaker 3: starting to do surveillance. Everything he would throw out from

1143
00:56:32,112 --> 00:56:35,071
Speaker 3: the apartment in the dumpster. It's free will and that's

1144
00:56:35,112 --> 00:56:36,631
Speaker 3: not your summary, he's saying, and they can have it.

1145
00:56:36,792 --> 00:56:38,792
Speaker 3: They would take it out like they took the waterbed.

1146
00:56:38,832 --> 00:56:41,832
Speaker 3: A bark put through the waterbed, I mean waterbed, a

1147
00:56:41,911 --> 00:56:44,551
Speaker 3: lot of evidence. You know, you got semen, you've got hair,

1148
00:56:44,911 --> 00:56:48,071
Speaker 3: you know, anything on there. Right, So it was just

1149
00:56:48,312 --> 00:56:51,792
Speaker 3: mind boggling that, not even after two weeks, that he'd

1150
00:56:51,792 --> 00:56:53,912
Speaker 3: been looking for this guy for eight nine months.

1151
00:56:54,592 --> 00:56:55,072
Speaker 4: Two weeks.

1152
00:56:55,112 --> 00:56:59,312
Speaker 3: I helped sit there meticulously. Let's try this, let's try this.

1153
00:56:59,431 --> 00:57:01,152
Speaker 4: Yes, I'm on for this. Yes, I'll ride around the

1154
00:57:01,192 --> 00:57:03,112
Speaker 4: car with you my eyes closed. It's not going to

1155
00:57:03,192 --> 00:57:03,511
Speaker 4: bother me.

1156
00:57:03,752 --> 00:57:05,431
Speaker 3: I'm not worried about me being a victim right now,

1157
00:57:05,471 --> 00:57:07,872
Speaker 3: and worried about others being victim because they may not

1158
00:57:08,192 --> 00:57:09,111
Speaker 3: make it like I did.

1159
00:57:09,471 --> 00:57:10,392
Speaker 4: They may not survive.

1160
00:57:10,832 --> 00:57:14,872
Speaker 3: I'm grateful he chose me, believe it or not, Right, Claire,

1161
00:57:14,911 --> 00:57:17,632
Speaker 3: you'd be like, what because he chose me and not

1162
00:57:17,672 --> 00:57:19,792
Speaker 3: another seventeen year old could have been a seventeen year

1163
00:57:19,792 --> 00:57:21,992
Speaker 3: old the couldn't handle it and started fighting initially, and

1164
00:57:22,072 --> 00:57:23,072
Speaker 3: he would have killed the right.

1165
00:57:22,992 --> 00:57:25,072
Speaker 1: There and then yeah, so because did he go on

1166
00:57:25,152 --> 00:57:26,912
Speaker 1: to quil again after he abducted you.

1167
00:57:27,312 --> 00:57:30,192
Speaker 4: Yes, a few so I was in the office.

1168
00:57:30,232 --> 00:57:32,592
Speaker 3: I think I was laying on the couch in Larry's

1169
00:57:32,592 --> 00:57:35,552
Speaker 3: office or something, and I was sleeping, had a dream

1170
00:57:35,672 --> 00:57:37,312
Speaker 3: or something, and I thought it was just the dream

1171
00:57:37,392 --> 00:57:41,032
Speaker 3: is so real. When Larry came in to say, hey, hey,

1172
00:57:41,872 --> 00:57:44,272
Speaker 3: we got him, We got him, I looked at him like,

1173
00:57:44,992 --> 00:57:45,671
Speaker 3: this is his dream?

1174
00:57:45,792 --> 00:57:47,472
Speaker 4: What are you talking about? And I just started crying.

1175
00:57:47,992 --> 00:57:48,872
Speaker 3: He goes because you.

1176
00:57:48,992 --> 00:57:51,192
Speaker 4: After twelve days we called him, they called him.

1177
00:57:51,192 --> 00:57:54,392
Speaker 3: Come out of a movie theater watching sometime a Bruce

1178
00:57:54,512 --> 00:57:58,472
Speaker 3: Lee movie or something. And at this time the Heilsborough

1179
00:57:58,512 --> 00:58:01,752
Speaker 3: County Shares Office gun involved too, so they were working

1180
00:58:02,032 --> 00:58:04,392
Speaker 3: side by side along with the FBI trying to find

1181
00:58:04,472 --> 00:58:08,872
Speaker 3: this guy. And I remember Stephen Crib. I think he

1182
00:58:08,952 --> 00:58:11,272
Speaker 3: ended up being a sergeant before he retired years. A

1183
00:58:11,312 --> 00:58:13,752
Speaker 3: couple of years back, his team brought him down. They

1184
00:58:13,792 --> 00:58:16,312
Speaker 3: called the Green Team. He put his badge on his

1185
00:58:16,432 --> 00:58:18,392
Speaker 3: face from him on the ground, says she got you.

1186
00:58:18,952 --> 00:58:21,392
Speaker 3: Had it not been for me, God knows how any

1187
00:58:21,432 --> 00:58:23,112
Speaker 3: more he would have killed. I think he might have

1188
00:58:23,192 --> 00:58:26,432
Speaker 3: killed two, maybe three after me. But I was so

1189
00:58:26,792 --> 00:58:33,151
Speaker 3: grateful that I was able to help them catch this guy.

1190
00:58:33,472 --> 00:58:36,272
Speaker 3: Not realizing it was a serial killer until I put

1191
00:58:36,272 --> 00:58:39,671
Speaker 3: two and two together, because they came. When I went

1192
00:58:39,752 --> 00:58:43,312
Speaker 3: back and forth from the detective's house, I ended up

1193
00:58:43,352 --> 00:58:46,432
Speaker 3: going to the I guess the FBI. They put me

1194
00:58:46,512 --> 00:58:50,192
Speaker 3: in a runaway center called Haven Poe under my name Lisa,

1195
00:58:50,312 --> 00:58:52,952
Speaker 3: but my last name was not to be known for protection.

1196
00:58:53,592 --> 00:58:56,832
Speaker 3: And I remember on Tom Pinkerton brought me a photo

1197
00:58:56,952 --> 00:59:01,352
Speaker 3: six pack of six different guys to see if I

1198
00:59:01,432 --> 00:59:04,192
Speaker 3: can recognize who my doctor was, just before I realized

1199
00:59:04,272 --> 00:59:06,912
Speaker 3: it was a serial killer. For his arrest. He goes,

1200
00:59:06,952 --> 00:59:10,392
Speaker 3: I need you to take time, pick out the picture

1201
00:59:10,392 --> 00:59:13,872
Speaker 3: you think who might have adopted you, and just take

1202
00:59:13,912 --> 00:59:15,752
Speaker 3: your time. I had to sign a waiver and all that,

1203
00:59:15,912 --> 00:59:18,912
Speaker 3: and I'm like, that's your guy. Didn't hesitate in the

1204
00:59:18,992 --> 00:59:20,232
Speaker 3: movie shows the top left it.

1205
00:59:20,632 --> 00:59:21,392
Speaker 4: It was a bottom right.

1206
00:59:21,472 --> 00:59:23,912
Speaker 2: So even though you never like took that blind pholt off,

1207
00:59:23,952 --> 00:59:26,192
Speaker 2: the whole time, you only touched his face, and you

1208
00:59:26,272 --> 00:59:28,832
Speaker 2: picked up bits and pieces, you could identify him from

1209
00:59:28,832 --> 00:59:29,192
Speaker 2: a photo.

1210
00:59:29,592 --> 00:59:32,631
Speaker 3: Yes, he goes, how sure are you not one hundred

1211
00:59:32,632 --> 00:59:33,032
Speaker 3: ten percent?

1212
00:59:33,152 --> 00:59:33,712
Speaker 4: That is your guy?

1213
00:59:34,592 --> 00:59:36,512
Speaker 3: I am telling you now, now I knew who's the

1214
00:59:36,552 --> 00:59:39,552
Speaker 3: serial killer. They brought me their photo afterwards that your guy.

1215
00:59:39,992 --> 00:59:42,592
Speaker 3: And what happened is before they arrested him, they stopped

1216
00:59:42,672 --> 00:59:44,752
Speaker 3: him saying the robbery in the era, hey to mind,

1217
00:59:44,912 --> 00:59:46,912
Speaker 3: take your picture, and he left him take the picture

1218
00:59:47,192 --> 00:59:51,191
Speaker 3: that them is poloids, right, Yeah, ended up being that guy,

1219
00:59:52,032 --> 00:59:52,711
Speaker 3: Robert Joel Long.

1220
00:59:53,072 --> 00:59:55,032
Speaker 1: Was there ever a moment after he was arrested? I

1221
00:59:55,072 --> 00:59:57,191
Speaker 1: mean there was a lot of evidence against him by.

1222
00:59:57,112 --> 00:59:59,592
Speaker 2: This stage, but was there ever a moment where you thought, like,

1223
00:59:59,712 --> 01:00:01,792
Speaker 2: what happens if he gets off and he knows full

1224
01:00:01,832 --> 01:00:03,352
Speaker 2: well that you're the one who brought him down.

1225
01:00:04,192 --> 01:00:07,312
Speaker 3: There was a time years later met fifteen years goes

1226
01:00:07,352 --> 01:00:10,872
Speaker 3: by that he was almost getting out on a technicolity

1227
01:00:11,192 --> 01:00:13,352
Speaker 3: and I had called Larry Pinkerton like is he getting

1228
01:00:13,352 --> 01:00:15,072
Speaker 3: out because the first person he's coming for is me?

1229
01:00:15,792 --> 01:00:19,352
Speaker 3: And somehow the technicality it wasn't valid or something. I

1230
01:00:19,592 --> 01:00:21,352
Speaker 3: don't know whatever happened to it, but he didn't get out,

1231
01:00:21,392 --> 01:00:24,472
Speaker 3: but he would have came after me. I decided take

1232
01:00:24,552 --> 01:00:27,432
Speaker 3: my life back and control and I wanted to give

1233
01:00:27,512 --> 01:00:30,672
Speaker 3: back to my community. I actually wanted to go in

1234
01:00:30,712 --> 01:00:33,512
Speaker 3: the Air Force. I was hit by a car. Thus,

1235
01:00:33,792 --> 01:00:37,112
Speaker 3: in my dream of going to the Air Force, end

1236
01:00:37,192 --> 01:00:38,832
Speaker 3: up not going to the Air Force. I suffered a

1237
01:00:40,032 --> 01:00:42,192
Speaker 3: I had a severe leg injury, had to have surgery,

1238
01:00:42,632 --> 01:00:45,272
Speaker 3: so therefore I couldn't go into the military. Ended up

1239
01:00:45,872 --> 01:00:48,751
Speaker 3: getting married, had a daughter, trying to live my life,

1240
01:00:48,952 --> 01:00:52,472
Speaker 3: and that was not a good relationship, was very unhealthy,

1241
01:00:52,872 --> 01:00:55,352
Speaker 3: very toxic, and I had to get out. And I

1242
01:00:55,392 --> 01:00:57,992
Speaker 3: got out and I decided, you know what, I'm going

1243
01:00:58,032 --> 01:00:59,752
Speaker 3: to get back to my community. If I can't get

1244
01:00:59,792 --> 01:01:03,432
Speaker 3: back to United States, I'm going to go to any

1245
01:01:03,592 --> 01:01:05,912
Speaker 3: local colleges and I'm going to sign up for the

1246
01:01:05,952 --> 01:01:09,312
Speaker 3: police academy. And I got into the police Academy. I

1247
01:01:09,512 --> 01:01:12,192
Speaker 3: did not get sponsored. I paid my own way, and

1248
01:01:12,312 --> 01:01:15,312
Speaker 3: back then I was a single parent. But I pulled

1249
01:01:15,352 --> 01:01:18,752
Speaker 3: it off about my very first owned firearm. I turned

1250
01:01:18,792 --> 01:01:22,872
Speaker 3: my adversities and tragedies into something positive to where I

1251
01:01:22,912 --> 01:01:25,072
Speaker 3: couldn't be scared for the rest of my life and

1252
01:01:25,112 --> 01:01:26,872
Speaker 3: looking over my shoulder, who's going to take me next?

1253
01:01:27,392 --> 01:01:29,672
Speaker 3: So I fought my way through the academy. I was

1254
01:01:29,712 --> 01:01:32,912
Speaker 3: having problems with firearms and I couldn't understand why. I

1255
01:01:33,032 --> 01:01:36,072
Speaker 3: had a sweet friend. Oh my gosh, he was an incredible,

1256
01:01:36,512 --> 01:01:42,191
Speaker 3: incredible guy. Dana Lundine lud E n great guy, great,

1257
01:01:42,312 --> 01:01:44,151
Speaker 3: great sheriff deputy taught me a lot.

1258
01:01:44,792 --> 01:01:47,472
Speaker 4: He goes, meet me down at the fire range this Saturday.

1259
01:01:47,712 --> 01:01:49,392
Speaker 3: I don't know it was years ago. I'm like, okay,

1260
01:01:49,872 --> 01:01:52,512
Speaker 3: we get up to the fire range. He goes, I

1261
01:01:52,552 --> 01:01:55,312
Speaker 3: don't want you touching a firearm anything you've learned till

1262
01:01:55,392 --> 01:01:58,472
Speaker 3: now in the academy. Because I hadn't gotten full time

1263
01:01:58,512 --> 01:02:01,632
Speaker 3: with the Shar's office yet, I had become a reserve.

1264
01:02:01,712 --> 01:02:03,552
Speaker 3: I worked it out dispatch UNI for five years. By

1265
01:02:03,552 --> 01:02:05,992
Speaker 3: I was also a reserve. A reserve unit is where

1266
01:02:05,992 --> 01:02:09,312
Speaker 3: you're another deputy have arrest powers, but you learn sub

1267
01:02:09,592 --> 01:02:13,792
Speaker 3: you go to that stept first or orginistraatement to law enforcement.

1268
01:02:13,912 --> 01:02:15,272
Speaker 3: I want to make sure that was for me, you

1269
01:02:15,312 --> 01:02:17,512
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. So I did it for four years.

1270
01:02:17,552 --> 01:02:19,231
Speaker 3: But he got me down the range one day. He goes,

1271
01:02:19,672 --> 01:02:26,512
Speaker 3: what's truly going on? And he goes, let's face your fear. Yeah,

1272
01:02:26,592 --> 01:02:28,232
Speaker 3: so what are you talking about? He goes, why do

1273
01:02:28,312 --> 01:02:30,952
Speaker 3: you think you can't shoot? Can't or you don't want to?

1274
01:02:32,112 --> 01:02:34,152
Speaker 3: And I looked at him. I'm like, hees, let me

1275
01:02:34,232 --> 01:02:37,032
Speaker 3: tell you something. The look on your face told me everything.

1276
01:02:37,952 --> 01:02:40,392
Speaker 3: It's not the gun that kills people. You have to

1277
01:02:40,392 --> 01:02:43,952
Speaker 3: stop being afraid and I let's shoot. And let me

1278
01:02:44,032 --> 01:02:47,392
Speaker 3: tell you something. It went for that man, that deputy,

1279
01:02:47,512 --> 01:02:52,352
Speaker 3: my my zone partner, helped me through, to get through

1280
01:02:52,992 --> 01:02:55,472
Speaker 3: the fear of holding a gun. I don't think I

1281
01:02:55,872 --> 01:02:56,832
Speaker 3: have been a sheriff deputy.

1282
01:02:57,072 --> 01:02:59,192
Speaker 1: And you think that's because guns had been held against

1283
01:02:59,232 --> 01:03:00,711
Speaker 1: you so many times in the Yes.

1284
01:03:01,232 --> 01:03:03,832
Speaker 3: Yes, it was used as a fear tactic. You know,

1285
01:03:04,032 --> 01:03:06,672
Speaker 3: is used as control because being rare. It is not

1286
01:03:06,752 --> 01:03:10,232
Speaker 3: about sets right, It's about that person being control of you,

1287
01:03:10,712 --> 01:03:13,671
Speaker 3: that person heard you, to get them gratified, to get

1288
01:03:13,712 --> 01:03:17,232
Speaker 3: them off in a sense, you know. So I remember

1289
01:03:17,352 --> 01:03:19,992
Speaker 3: in the reserve because I had to go through reserve academy.

1290
01:03:20,392 --> 01:03:23,752
Speaker 3: Oh my lord, we got the guy deputy named John Footman,

1291
01:03:23,872 --> 01:03:27,792
Speaker 3: big black dude, muscle, had his old taime kwondo studio.

1292
01:03:27,952 --> 01:03:30,192
Speaker 3: My daughter went to his studio when he see was little.

1293
01:03:30,392 --> 01:03:32,912
Speaker 3: And it's funny how life's fur a circle. Now we're

1294
01:03:32,912 --> 01:03:35,392
Speaker 3: going to work together as deputies. In the reserve program,

1295
01:03:35,472 --> 01:03:38,312
Speaker 3: you still got to go through academy. I remember fighting

1296
01:03:38,432 --> 01:03:42,592
Speaker 3: him and I remember something pulling me off of him. Lisa,

1297
01:03:42,632 --> 01:03:45,671
Speaker 3: it's okay, let go, let go. I had blocked out.

1298
01:03:45,832 --> 01:03:48,552
Speaker 3: I was beating the snot out of him. If you

1299
01:03:48,632 --> 01:03:52,192
Speaker 3: want to say, and I didn't mean to. In my mind,

1300
01:03:52,792 --> 01:03:55,312
Speaker 3: you're not going to hit me. I am not allowing

1301
01:03:55,312 --> 01:03:57,832
Speaker 3: anybody to hit me anymore. I am done. I went

1302
01:03:57,912 --> 01:04:00,792
Speaker 3: through with my ex husband. I went through you know,

1303
01:04:00,912 --> 01:04:03,632
Speaker 3: Robert you loong, I went through my my grandmo's boyfriend,

1304
01:04:03,672 --> 01:04:06,232
Speaker 3: and as a child growing up, I am not allowing

1305
01:04:06,312 --> 01:04:09,712
Speaker 3: I didn't want to hurt me ever again in my mind. Psychologically,

1306
01:04:10,232 --> 01:04:13,072
Speaker 3: I went to protect a survivor Molde and they're like,

1307
01:04:13,952 --> 01:04:15,872
Speaker 3: is she got to be a deputy or not? You know,

1308
01:04:15,912 --> 01:04:18,032
Speaker 3: because they're like, sure, this is what you want to do,

1309
01:04:18,592 --> 01:04:22,312
Speaker 3: you know. And there's times I see John who goes, WHOA, Well,

1310
01:04:22,352 --> 01:04:25,191
Speaker 3: your kiddies, we're still good friends, right, I'm like, yes, John,

1311
01:04:25,472 --> 01:04:28,872
Speaker 3: this guy's twice my size right, muscles here and there.

1312
01:04:29,352 --> 01:04:33,672
Speaker 3: But it helped me grow into the person that I

1313
01:04:33,752 --> 01:04:36,832
Speaker 3: was meant to be. Resilience is the one word I

1314
01:04:36,992 --> 01:04:41,232
Speaker 3: use to take it further in life. After being five

1315
01:04:41,312 --> 01:04:43,672
Speaker 3: years and dispatch where you tell a deputes where to go,

1316
01:04:43,752 --> 01:04:45,552
Speaker 3: what to do, what calls to go to, and taking

1317
01:04:45,672 --> 01:04:48,272
Speaker 3: nine one calls and you're saving people's lives on the phone.

1318
01:04:48,832 --> 01:04:50,952
Speaker 3: You know, I decided to go through the full time academy,

1319
01:04:51,152 --> 01:04:54,112
Speaker 3: put myself through that academy, paid my way through the academy.

1320
01:04:54,192 --> 01:04:57,112
Speaker 3: For nine months, why I was working dispatch, and in

1321
01:04:57,312 --> 01:04:59,112
Speaker 3: two thousand and five I hit the street as a

1322
01:04:59,192 --> 01:05:01,912
Speaker 3: full time sheriff deputy for the Hillsborgan to share his office.

1323
01:05:02,392 --> 01:05:05,552
Speaker 3: They spent twenty five years now, so I've had it

1324
01:05:05,832 --> 01:05:09,472
Speaker 3: very career. Anybody that can say, you.

1325
01:05:09,512 --> 01:05:11,432
Speaker 4: Know, what do I do with my life? Look at

1326
01:05:11,512 --> 01:05:12,112
Speaker 4: my story.

1327
01:05:13,152 --> 01:05:16,912
Speaker 3: You know. I took my life and I gave back

1328
01:05:16,952 --> 01:05:19,752
Speaker 3: to the people who helped save my life, you know,

1329
01:05:19,992 --> 01:05:23,072
Speaker 3: And I don't know. It's something about the sheriff's office

1330
01:05:23,192 --> 01:05:27,472
Speaker 3: over the city police office. I just felt more comfortable

1331
01:05:27,472 --> 01:05:29,792
Speaker 3: with the Hillsboro kind of shriff's office. And I made

1332
01:05:29,792 --> 01:05:32,192
Speaker 3: a life for myself, and I'm very proud of that.

1333
01:05:32,272 --> 01:05:35,152
Speaker 3: I'm very humbled because no God can take it away.

1334
01:05:35,632 --> 01:05:38,552
Speaker 3: The minute you're not humble, the minute you you both

1335
01:05:39,192 --> 01:05:42,632
Speaker 3: and you know and become vain, God can take it away.

1336
01:05:43,392 --> 01:05:47,272
Speaker 3: Life has been ups and downs. I used to have

1337
01:05:47,472 --> 01:05:56,152
Speaker 3: nightmares long long ago, but I never never had really.

1338
01:05:56,032 --> 01:05:57,392
Speaker 4: Any nightmares of my abduction.

1339
01:05:57,992 --> 01:06:01,632
Speaker 3: Maybe one that dream was, you know, back in the

1340
01:06:01,712 --> 01:06:05,632
Speaker 3: seventies had those big curtains, and I was walking in

1341
01:06:05,712 --> 01:06:08,872
Speaker 3: this hallway. The dark house might have been my grandma's

1342
01:06:08,952 --> 01:06:11,952
Speaker 3: boyfriend's dark house, and I remember seeing red light behind

1343
01:06:11,992 --> 01:06:15,631
Speaker 3: these these beaded curtains, and I walk in. I see

1344
01:06:15,792 --> 01:06:18,952
Speaker 3: Barbie Jeelong raping another girl, I think, and then I

1345
01:06:19,032 --> 01:06:21,472
Speaker 3: have one that he was coming after me with his gun.

1346
01:06:21,512 --> 01:06:23,952
Speaker 3: He's climbing through my bedroom window at the detective's house.

1347
01:06:24,272 --> 01:06:26,592
Speaker 3: I remember having a dream like that. I went to

1348
01:06:26,672 --> 01:06:28,832
Speaker 3: counseling here and there, but I just wanted to live

1349
01:06:28,912 --> 01:06:30,872
Speaker 3: my life. I got tired of telling my story over

1350
01:06:30,952 --> 01:06:32,992
Speaker 3: and over again. I wanted to go live my life.

1351
01:06:33,392 --> 01:06:35,872
Speaker 3: But I think the most nightmares I've ever had was

1352
01:06:36,072 --> 01:06:40,472
Speaker 3: of my childhood. I think because the Robert Joe long

1353
01:06:40,632 --> 01:06:44,472
Speaker 3: was only twenty six hours, it was a long twenty hours.

1354
01:06:45,072 --> 01:06:49,432
Speaker 3: My rape at my grandma's house was four years, four years,

1355
01:06:49,952 --> 01:06:53,312
Speaker 3: so I've had more nightmares of that than anything. But

1356
01:06:53,792 --> 01:06:57,472
Speaker 3: my nightmares have stopped. I don't really have any if.

1357
01:06:57,512 --> 01:07:03,272
Speaker 3: I dream, but not very often. I got a phone

1358
01:07:03,312 --> 01:07:06,672
Speaker 3: call at work one day back in twenty nineteen. It

1359
01:07:06,752 --> 01:07:08,752
Speaker 3: was April eighteenth. I'm good with dates, by the way,

1360
01:07:09,232 --> 01:07:14,552
Speaker 3: and I do so I for the past twelve years

1361
01:07:14,592 --> 01:07:17,592
Speaker 3: have been in school resources. Were in state of Florida,

1362
01:07:17,672 --> 01:07:21,552
Speaker 3: every school has to be equipped with a school resource deputy. Okay,

1363
01:07:21,792 --> 01:07:25,072
Speaker 3: we're still deputies. Is our assignments in the school summertimes

1364
01:07:25,112 --> 01:07:28,032
Speaker 3: we work on the street whatever special details and needed.

1365
01:07:28,112 --> 01:07:30,711
Speaker 3: Just for like last summer, I worked in the detective section.

1366
01:07:31,032 --> 01:07:34,512
Speaker 3: I was detective in Trenting for thirty days. Wasn't for me.

1367
01:07:34,952 --> 01:07:38,272
Speaker 3: I loved it, but I liked I love working with

1368
01:07:38,312 --> 01:07:40,752
Speaker 3: the kids. So I ended up back in school resource.

1369
01:07:41,232 --> 01:07:44,752
Speaker 3: All day this area code eight five zero kept calling me.

1370
01:07:44,832 --> 01:07:48,272
Speaker 3: I don't know what eight five zeros spam right, I'd answer,

1371
01:07:48,352 --> 01:07:48,672
Speaker 3: hang up.

1372
01:07:48,832 --> 01:07:49,912
Speaker 4: I got so tired of it.

1373
01:07:50,072 --> 01:07:50,312
Speaker 1: I was.

1374
01:07:50,872 --> 01:07:53,512
Speaker 3: I remember chooing a kid out in the office when

1375
01:07:53,592 --> 01:07:56,671
Speaker 3: the sister of Principal's office and I answered the phone.

1376
01:07:56,672 --> 01:07:58,312
Speaker 3: I was speaker phone, and I was like, what do

1377
01:07:58,432 --> 01:08:01,832
Speaker 3: you want? You've been calling me all day, sweet little

1378
01:08:01,872 --> 01:08:06,192
Speaker 3: voice named Michelle Johnson, stay turns off or up in telhouse.

1379
01:08:06,312 --> 01:08:10,832
Speaker 3: I'm Michelle Johnston calling from Governor Ron Dessantans's office.

1380
01:08:11,352 --> 01:08:12,832
Speaker 4: Can I have a moment to speak with you? Please?

1381
01:08:13,392 --> 01:08:18,352
Speaker 3: I sounds important. Let me go to my office because

1382
01:08:18,352 --> 01:08:20,272
Speaker 3: we have an Ald offices in the schools. I've set

1383
01:08:20,312 --> 01:08:25,352
Speaker 3: the door, and wow, it was it was a long

1384
01:08:25,472 --> 01:08:27,831
Speaker 3: time coming because Robert Glong is still sitting on death

1385
01:08:27,912 --> 01:08:32,072
Speaker 3: rose in eighty four. Now it's twenty nineteen. So I said, ma'am,

1386
01:08:32,112 --> 01:08:34,232
Speaker 3: what can I do for you? She goes, well, as

1387
01:08:34,312 --> 01:08:37,512
Speaker 3: we speak, the ink's not even dry. Govern Ron DeSantis

1388
01:08:37,592 --> 01:08:41,791
Speaker 3: to sign Robert Delong's death warrant. Me, being a police officer,

1389
01:08:41,832 --> 01:08:45,432
Speaker 3: sheriff deputy, I knew what that meant, but I said,

1390
01:08:45,952 --> 01:08:49,232
Speaker 3: what does that mean? I'm waiting. I'm Gonnaela has to

1391
01:08:49,312 --> 01:08:51,592
Speaker 3: trying to advocate, you know, a year before, a couple

1392
01:08:51,671 --> 01:08:54,392
Speaker 3: years before, trying to get him to be executed. Nothing's

1393
01:08:54,432 --> 01:08:56,791
Speaker 3: come of it, you know, victim's advocate. And she goes,

1394
01:08:57,112 --> 01:09:00,871
Speaker 3: he's being set to put to death. May twenty third,

1395
01:09:01,472 --> 01:09:06,751
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen. I'm like, oh, My first reaction was I

1396
01:09:06,832 --> 01:09:13,032
Speaker 3: started crying because the human civilian parted me. That compassion

1397
01:09:13,112 --> 01:09:17,392
Speaker 3: overflow to me, thinking how much power one person has

1398
01:09:18,472 --> 01:09:21,671
Speaker 3: in the decision making of putting someone to death. Right,

1399
01:09:22,472 --> 01:09:26,912
Speaker 3: he's going to die? And then and the law enforsement

1400
01:09:26,992 --> 01:09:30,392
Speaker 3: kicked in and she goes, are you okay. I'm like,

1401
01:09:30,432 --> 01:09:32,272
Speaker 3: I'm Okay, I just have a few questions, and she

1402
01:09:32,392 --> 01:09:35,272
Speaker 3: answered him. She goes, well, we're extending this phone call.

1403
01:09:35,512 --> 01:09:37,751
Speaker 3: We would like to have you up here. We're inviting

1404
01:09:37,832 --> 01:09:38,911
Speaker 3: you to come up here if you want to sit

1405
01:09:38,952 --> 01:09:39,552
Speaker 3: in the execution.

1406
01:09:39,832 --> 01:09:42,032
Speaker 2: Well, can you talk to me about that, because that's like,

1407
01:09:42,272 --> 01:09:44,831
Speaker 2: I don't know whether you even thought twice about whether

1408
01:09:44,872 --> 01:09:45,392
Speaker 2: you would.

1409
01:09:45,152 --> 01:09:47,432
Speaker 3: Attend or not, but you also didn't think twice about it.

1410
01:09:47,552 --> 01:09:49,952
Speaker 1: White an iconic T shirt to that event too. Can

1411
01:09:49,992 --> 01:09:50,992
Speaker 1: you please talk me through that?

1412
01:09:51,432 --> 01:09:52,671
Speaker 4: So poetic justice.

1413
01:09:52,751 --> 01:09:58,032
Speaker 3: I've always said that justice was served the day upon

1414
01:09:58,192 --> 01:10:02,072
Speaker 3: his arrests, the day he took his last breath moved me.

1415
01:10:02,152 --> 01:10:05,232
Speaker 3: Sitting in the front row holding Sergeant Larry Finkertron's hand

1416
01:10:05,791 --> 01:10:09,392
Speaker 3: and sergeant from Tampa Police Department and Sergeant Stephen Cribs

1417
01:10:09,472 --> 01:10:14,671
Speaker 3: hand were maybe I don't know, eight ten feet from him.

1418
01:10:15,592 --> 01:10:17,951
Speaker 3: I just laid there and took his last breath. Again,

1419
01:10:18,232 --> 01:10:20,711
Speaker 3: justice was served the day who was arrested, and justice

1420
01:10:20,832 --> 01:10:24,312
Speaker 3: was completed the day took his last breath. So it

1421
01:10:24,392 --> 01:10:25,552
Speaker 3: was poetic justice for me.

1422
01:10:25,992 --> 01:10:27,991
Speaker 4: I've already been doing a lot of healing.

1423
01:10:28,751 --> 01:10:32,111
Speaker 3: Understand that my journey in my life from my childhood

1424
01:10:32,912 --> 01:10:38,272
Speaker 3: abuse Falter Care, up to my abuse with my grandma's boyfriend,

1425
01:10:38,392 --> 01:10:41,671
Speaker 3: and now my adoption. I'll always be on a lifetime

1426
01:10:41,751 --> 01:10:44,272
Speaker 3: journey of healing. I want to spread the word. I

1427
01:10:44,432 --> 01:10:47,592
Speaker 3: want to spread my testimony that just because bad things

1428
01:10:47,711 --> 01:10:50,192
Speaker 3: happen to good people doesn't mean you can't go on

1429
01:10:50,312 --> 01:10:50,711
Speaker 3: your life.

1430
01:10:51,592 --> 01:10:54,192
Speaker 4: Get off your butt and do something for your life.

1431
01:10:55,112 --> 01:10:56,671
Speaker 3: The last thing that is in my movie to Larry

1432
01:10:56,711 --> 01:10:59,631
Speaker 3: Pinkerton was you haven't seen the last of me yet,

1433
01:11:02,352 --> 01:11:04,991
Speaker 3: And yes, I went. I wrote a victim's impact statement,

1434
01:11:05,032 --> 01:11:08,272
Speaker 3: and I got to read my book impact statement, and

1435
01:11:08,751 --> 01:11:12,392
Speaker 3: one of the things was I'd said thank you for

1436
01:11:12,512 --> 01:11:14,592
Speaker 3: choosing me and not some of the little seventeen year

1437
01:11:14,592 --> 01:11:18,592
Speaker 3: old girl, because I got my strength back, I got

1438
01:11:18,671 --> 01:11:22,352
Speaker 3: my courage back, I got my life back. Having that happened,

1439
01:11:23,392 --> 01:11:26,152
Speaker 3: I truly believe I wouldn't see her talking to you.

1440
01:11:27,552 --> 01:11:29,232
Speaker 3: I would have had my mother and my family members

1441
01:11:30,032 --> 01:11:34,951
Speaker 3: visiting my grave. But no more, hear me, war, You're

1442
01:11:34,992 --> 01:11:38,112
Speaker 3: not going to silence me. It's not for exportation, it's

1443
01:11:38,152 --> 01:11:42,631
Speaker 3: not for money. Go on, but going along with that courage.

1444
01:11:43,232 --> 01:11:45,831
Speaker 3: I am a lioness and that's how I see myself,

1445
01:11:46,192 --> 01:11:49,671
Speaker 3: and I'm grateful. I am humble again. I cannot thank

1446
01:11:49,791 --> 01:11:53,552
Speaker 3: God every single day from my life when I wake up,

1447
01:11:53,751 --> 01:11:55,831
Speaker 3: thank you for another day of life. Thank you for

1448
01:11:55,952 --> 01:12:00,072
Speaker 3: my job, thank You for the accountans lives that I continue.

1449
01:12:00,152 --> 01:12:03,952
Speaker 3: I want to continue to change and to help. And

1450
01:12:04,112 --> 01:12:05,272
Speaker 3: that's where I stand today.

1451
01:12:05,592 --> 01:12:11,152
Speaker 1: And yeah, Lisa, thank you so so much.

1452
01:12:11,512 --> 01:12:14,472
Speaker 2: Hopefully people who feel like they don't have anything to

1453
01:12:14,552 --> 01:12:17,232
Speaker 2: live for right here is and know that there is

1454
01:12:17,872 --> 01:12:20,352
Speaker 2: light on the other side, no matter how dark it

1455
01:12:20,472 --> 01:12:21,991
Speaker 2: might be in that moment.

1456
01:12:22,232 --> 01:12:24,751
Speaker 3: You know, if anyone you know, I'm sure people are

1457
01:12:24,751 --> 01:12:28,071
Speaker 3: going to be listening to us and to that girl,

1458
01:12:28,552 --> 01:12:31,352
Speaker 3: to the woman right now that you can't find that

1459
01:12:31,552 --> 01:12:34,032
Speaker 3: little girl inside of you where you were if you

1460
01:12:34,152 --> 01:12:38,111
Speaker 3: were abused, reach inside yourself, hug.

1461
01:12:38,032 --> 01:12:42,472
Speaker 4: Her and tell her it's okay. It's okay to mess up,

1462
01:12:43,671 --> 01:12:47,871
Speaker 4: but it's also okay to live and go on. It's okay.

1463
01:12:48,631 --> 01:12:52,232
Speaker 3: It's breathtaking from me to know that I can share

1464
01:12:52,272 --> 01:12:54,911
Speaker 3: my story today and sit here and not cry anymore,

1465
01:12:55,352 --> 01:12:59,432
Speaker 3: you know, to know that everything I went through my

1466
01:12:59,592 --> 01:13:02,632
Speaker 3: life in the age two until the age of seventeen,

1467
01:13:03,512 --> 01:13:07,192
Speaker 3: I know now that I can look inside my I

1468
01:13:07,312 --> 01:13:10,352
Speaker 3: hug that little girl and say it wasn't your fault.

1469
01:13:12,312 --> 01:13:16,352
Speaker 3: It wasn't your fault, and that means more to me.

1470
01:13:17,992 --> 01:13:20,151
Speaker 4: You have no idea when I'm at the schools.

1471
01:13:20,952 --> 01:13:22,831
Speaker 3: You know, I live alone. I have a puppy dog,

1472
01:13:22,872 --> 01:13:23,192
Speaker 3: as you know.

1473
01:13:24,272 --> 01:13:25,872
Speaker 4: When a child comes to me and said, you know,

1474
01:13:26,032 --> 01:13:27,751
Speaker 4: definitely I need a hug today.

1475
01:13:28,992 --> 01:13:31,631
Speaker 3: I look at I was like, oh, sweetheart, what kind

1476
01:13:31,631 --> 01:13:34,272
Speaker 3: of day you have and let's talk. But when they're

1477
01:13:34,312 --> 01:13:36,472
Speaker 3: hugged me and I don't realize how much that I

1478
01:13:36,711 --> 01:13:39,312
Speaker 3: just need to have just as much, if not more. Sometimes.

1479
01:13:43,751 --> 01:13:46,192
Speaker 2: Lisa got divorced a couple of years ago, but after

1480
01:13:46,272 --> 01:13:48,791
Speaker 2: we finished talking about her ordeal, she explained to us

1481
01:13:48,832 --> 01:13:51,552
Speaker 2: that she was actually pretty happy on her own, loving

1482
01:13:51,631 --> 01:13:53,992
Speaker 2: life with a gorgeous rot while a rescue dog by

1483
01:13:54,032 --> 01:13:57,192
Speaker 2: her side. She explained that she has certainly had to

1484
01:13:57,312 --> 01:13:59,912
Speaker 2: work through her issues when it comes to trust, but

1485
01:14:00,032 --> 01:14:03,192
Speaker 2: despite everything she's been through, the nightmares have stopped.

1486
01:14:03,671 --> 01:14:05,432
Speaker 1: She has plans for the next stage of her life.

1487
01:14:05,671 --> 01:14:05,831
Speaker 3: Well.

1488
01:14:05,872 --> 01:14:09,232
Speaker 2: She spends quality time with her little granddaughter. This woman

1489
01:14:09,631 --> 01:14:13,751
Speaker 2: who's been deeply hurt and who has suffered through immense trauma,

1490
01:14:14,432 --> 01:14:17,352
Speaker 2: says no man and no thing can hold her back

1491
01:14:17,791 --> 01:14:19,872
Speaker 2: allowing love into her life, whether that be from a

1492
01:14:19,952 --> 01:14:22,592
Speaker 2: rescue pup, the children she works with, or the men

1493
01:14:22,631 --> 01:14:25,751
Speaker 2: in her life What a boss. Thank you to Lisa

1494
01:14:25,832 --> 01:14:28,872
Speaker 2: for helping us tell her story. True Crime Conversations is

1495
01:14:28,912 --> 01:14:32,392
Speaker 2: Amma Mia podcast hosted by me Claire Murphy and produced

1496
01:14:32,392 --> 01:14:35,631
Speaker 2: by Tarlie Blackman, with audio designed by Jacob Brown. If

1497
01:14:35,671 --> 01:14:37,751
Speaker 2: you liked this episode and want to hear more from

1498
01:14:37,832 --> 01:14:40,631
Speaker 2: guests like Lisa, send us an email. It's true Crime

1499
01:14:40,751 --> 01:14:43,671
Speaker 2: at mammamea dot com dot a you Also, if you

1500
01:14:43,751 --> 01:14:45,671
Speaker 2: got a sec please leave us a rating and review

1501
01:14:45,711 --> 01:14:48,392
Speaker 2: on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcast.

1502
01:14:48,711 --> 01:14:50,032
Speaker 2: Just let us know what you think of the show.

1503
01:14:50,272 --> 01:14:52,552
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening. I'll be back next week

1504
01:14:52,751 --> 01:14:54,312
Speaker 2: with another true Crime Conversation