WEBVTT - Other People’s Marriages & Your New 'Shobby' 0:00:10.622 --> 0:00:13.342 You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast. 0:00:13.822 --> 0:00:17.182 Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:17.222 --> 0:00:18.822 that this podcast is recorded on. 0:00:21.142 --> 0:00:23.701 Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia out loud. 0:00:23.741 --> 0:00:26.461 It's what women are actually talking about on Friday, the 0:00:26.502 --> 0:00:27.742 twenty fourth of October. 0:00:27.942 --> 0:00:31.582 I'm Holly Wainwright, I'm m Burnham and I'm back again. 0:00:31.702 --> 0:00:32.022 Hello. 0:00:32.182 --> 0:00:33.062 I'm Claire Murphy. 0:00:33.302 --> 0:00:37.101 Hi Claire, Hello Claire, And here's what's made our agenda 0:00:37.142 --> 0:00:39.501 for today, a day when, as we always do on 0:00:39.542 --> 0:00:42.182 Friday shows, we avoid the news like the plague, and 0:00:42.222 --> 0:00:45.062 we just splash about in whatever we want to talk about, 0:00:45.062 --> 0:00:47.702 having some fun. We are having some fun, and I 0:00:47.822 --> 0:00:50.222 want to talk about other people's marriages. 0:00:50.942 --> 0:00:54.742 I love that because I'm very nosy. Plus I need 0:00:54.782 --> 0:00:57.262 a little bit of advice from you guys. What to 0:00:57.302 --> 0:00:59.462 say to dog owners who tell you it's okay, he's 0:00:59.502 --> 0:01:02.982 friendly when their dog is like running straight at you 0:01:03.382 --> 0:01:04.782 and you don't know what they're going to do. 0:01:05.182 --> 0:01:08.341 And cowboys, billionaires and bad boys. 0:01:08.422 --> 0:01:10.941 No, that is not my dating pressure right now. 0:01:11.982 --> 0:01:15.542 Why are we all suddenly addicted to happily ever after? 0:01:16.462 --> 0:01:20.422 But first we have a brand new term to obsess 0:01:20.422 --> 0:01:22.382 over and it's come from one of our own. It's 0:01:22.422 --> 0:01:25.662 come from an out louder named Alison. Alison posted in 0:01:25.702 --> 0:01:28.862 our Facebook group and she said, I've decided to do 0:01:28.942 --> 0:01:33.782 something I'm calling a shobby. Shobby it's short for short 0:01:33.902 --> 0:01:35.581 term hobby, right. 0:01:35.942 --> 0:01:41.422 You're not committing like gardening is my hobby now, My identity's. 0:01:40.862 --> 0:01:43.381 Long term, and you tell people about it so too much. 0:01:43.422 --> 0:01:43.822 She said. 0:01:43.982 --> 0:01:48.102 Basically, I had the urge, for absolutely no earthly reason whatsoever, 0:01:48.542 --> 0:01:51.622 to learn to wrap the entirety of lose yourself by 0:01:51.662 --> 0:01:53.182 eminem by girl. 0:01:54.982 --> 0:01:58.342 His arms are sweaty, these weak arms are heap's vomit 0:01:58.422 --> 0:02:00.582 on a sweater already mar spaghetti. 0:02:00.662 --> 0:02:01.222 He's nervous. 0:02:01.582 --> 0:02:05.062 So, just to clarify that is in fact eminem Allison 0:02:05.182 --> 0:02:07.662 has not achieved her shop yet, but she hasn'tntil Christmas, 0:02:07.702 --> 0:02:08.462 so she's got some time. 0:02:08.901 --> 0:02:10.782 Well, thank you for clarifying. I would have been very 0:02:10.862 --> 0:02:11.661 confused had you not. 0:02:12.302 --> 0:02:12.742 She says. 0:02:12.822 --> 0:02:15.221 It's so much fun. No one else even knows I'm 0:02:15.302 --> 0:02:17.742 doing it. This is my new shebby, just for me. 0:02:18.262 --> 0:02:20.382 So before we get into it, she's also given us 0:02:20.502 --> 0:02:23.342 a list of rules for a shokay great. She says, 0:02:23.422 --> 0:02:26.262 the shobby has to be discreet and time limited. Once 0:02:26.302 --> 0:02:29.582 it's done, it's done. No signing up for classes, So 0:02:29.782 --> 0:02:30.822 she can't learn. 0:02:30.742 --> 0:02:33.061 All the world's to lose yourself and then go, you 0:02:33.181 --> 0:02:35.502 know what now, I love that. I'm going to learn 0:02:35.542 --> 0:02:38.222 all the words to fight for your right to party. 0:02:39.181 --> 0:02:40.822 She can't do an eminem discography. 0:02:40.982 --> 0:02:43.222 Okay, she's just doing it and she's not telling anyone, 0:02:43.502 --> 0:02:45.302 and it's like a little party trick she can whip up, right, 0:02:45.542 --> 0:02:48.302 She said, it's solely for fun, nothing earnest. You might 0:02:48.422 --> 0:02:50.862 learn something, but that's not the point. It's literally just 0:02:50.942 --> 0:02:53.181 to give yourself something interesting and the detaining to do 0:02:53.622 --> 0:02:58.102 to tickle your brain or body. Also, no accountability partners. 0:02:58.342 --> 0:03:00.382 If you don't do it or finish it, no one 0:03:00.542 --> 0:03:03.862 knows or cares. It doesn't create clutter to live in 0:03:03.902 --> 0:03:06.341 the garage. Whatever it is, you can figure it out 0:03:06.382 --> 0:03:07.022 on YouTube. 0:03:07.462 --> 0:03:09.422 I love this Scottish shebby's. 0:03:10.102 --> 0:03:12.221 I feel like I had one without realizing it was 0:03:12.262 --> 0:03:15.262 a shobby because I had always wanted to participate in 0:03:15.342 --> 0:03:19.062 a pub choir. Oh yeah, and I did it recently 0:03:19.382 --> 0:03:21.582 and it was really fun and I never want to 0:03:21.622 --> 0:03:22.102 do it again. 0:03:24.382 --> 0:03:26.462 Wait, what's a pub choir. I did that once too. 0:03:26.702 --> 0:03:29.061 It's a choir but with drinking, So you go to 0:03:29.181 --> 0:03:30.822 a part I mean, don't have to drink, it's not 0:03:30.862 --> 0:03:32.742 the rules, but you go and do it in a bar. 0:03:32.862 --> 0:03:35.222 There's a woman who's made it pub choir, a massive 0:03:35.262 --> 0:03:37.542 things called astroid. I don't know what a second was anyway, 0:03:37.902 --> 0:03:39.662 but you can go to one like I went to 0:03:39.702 --> 0:03:41.742 one at my local RSL when I lived in Sydney. 0:03:42.182 --> 0:03:44.262 And they teach you a song to be Tuesday night 0:03:44.302 --> 0:03:45.822 and they teach you a song. They split you into 0:03:45.862 --> 0:03:47.782 groups and you all everyone has a drink and sings 0:03:47.782 --> 0:03:50.142 a song and it is very wholesome and very fun. 0:03:50.302 --> 0:03:52.102 The beauty of it too is that if you're a 0:03:52.182 --> 0:03:54.902 bit shit, it doesn't really matter because everyone else around 0:03:54.942 --> 0:03:56.462 you was singing and kind of makes up for it. 0:03:56.622 --> 0:03:58.222 So it's just like a big karaoke session. 0:03:58.262 --> 0:04:01.622 I really like the no accountability because regular outlouders will 0:04:01.702 --> 0:04:03.982 know that. I came back from my holiday this year 0:04:04.022 --> 0:04:08.302 and I was like, I'm learning Italian. Remember, duelingo became 0:04:08.382 --> 0:04:11.022 my personality for a while. Do you know how annoying 0:04:11.182 --> 0:04:15.062 those duo lingo endless freaking? Like, remind hey, don't break 0:04:15.102 --> 0:04:17.542 your streak, hey, and they text you and they're in 0:04:17.622 --> 0:04:21.582 the emails and the apps pop it upon it. It's 0:04:21.702 --> 0:04:24.741 like you are annoying me out of wanting to learn 0:04:24.782 --> 0:04:25.621 Italian now and. 0:04:25.662 --> 0:04:27.942 Also would due LINGO from what I remember when I 0:04:28.101 --> 0:04:31.062 used it briefly, is that you don't actually learn phrases 0:04:31.101 --> 0:04:31.541 that you need. 0:04:31.662 --> 0:04:34.181 It's usually stuff like how do I buy this lamp? 0:04:34.301 --> 0:04:37.101 Yeah, I'm getting a lot of like the red skirts 0:04:37.142 --> 0:04:39.222 are cheaper than the black skirts. 0:04:39.541 --> 0:04:41.981 And I'm like, when would I use that? 0:04:42.262 --> 0:04:44.782 I mean, if you're going over as some kind of 0:04:45.142 --> 0:04:49.502 shopping adventure for a brand or store, but imagining in 0:04:49.582 --> 0:04:51.662 day to day life not overly helpful. So did have 0:04:51.821 --> 0:04:52.421 you stopped? 0:04:52.662 --> 0:04:55.622 I haven't stopped, But it's touched my inner rebel in 0:04:55.741 --> 0:04:57.501 that when those come up and they say you're going 0:04:57.582 --> 0:04:59.142 to break your streak, there's a bit of me because 0:04:59.262 --> 0:05:00.501 you know, I'm busy person. 0:05:01.381 --> 0:05:03.821 It's just like you're at the bottom of me. We're 0:05:03.861 --> 0:05:08.022 little green bird who cares if I break my streak? 0:05:08.222 --> 0:05:10.942 Like I can start again to I know, but you've 0:05:10.941 --> 0:05:13.782 already told us. So now we're all asking you. You 0:05:13.821 --> 0:05:14.621 can't break your stream? 0:05:14.981 --> 0:05:18.182 What's your shebby my shobby is so I have a 0:05:18.222 --> 0:05:20.021 little digiticam like a digital camera. 0:05:20.301 --> 0:05:22.422 I've seen you taking photos in the office. Yes, I've been. 0:05:22.381 --> 0:05:24.222 Taking a lot of photos on it, and I've started 0:05:24.262 --> 0:05:28.742 to create little like digital albums and sharing them with 0:05:28.981 --> 0:05:31.782 my friends and family. But now I feel like I've 0:05:31.861 --> 0:05:34.541 over committed to this bit that now every single time 0:05:34.621 --> 0:05:36.662 I'm going to an event, they're all like, where's your 0:05:36.702 --> 0:05:37.261 digital camera? 0:05:37.662 --> 0:05:43.061 Accountability? And we need we need to and everyone wants photos. 0:05:43.262 --> 0:05:45.382 Oh stopping so good at it? Then be a bit 0:05:45.421 --> 0:05:46.622 shitter and people won't care. 0:05:49.022 --> 0:05:52.541 I want to talk about other people's marriages. 0:05:53.181 --> 0:05:59.101 Surprise, surprise, specifically our opinions about them and how we 0:05:59.462 --> 0:06:03.502 project onto them. Right, allow me to present a sub 0:06:03.582 --> 0:06:06.382 stack and subsequent peace on Mom and Miya that we 0:06:06.501 --> 0:06:09.742 published in the days after Victoria Beckham's Netflix documentary, and 0:06:09.941 --> 0:06:14.501 the title of this article was Oh Victoria, your husband 0:06:14.741 --> 0:06:17.662 is not on your team? And it is written by 0:06:17.741 --> 0:06:21.502 Holly no relation Bell now. In it, Holly Bell wrote, 0:06:21.582 --> 0:06:24.022 I have come here to have my say about Victoria 0:06:24.061 --> 0:06:28.022 Beckham because I am really worried about her. She also wrote, 0:06:28.101 --> 0:06:29.861 I'm here to stick my nose in where it's not 0:06:29.941 --> 0:06:32.861 required as usual any claims here are alleged, and this 0:06:32.981 --> 0:06:34.981 is only my point of view. Your view might be different, 0:06:35.022 --> 0:06:36.941 and that is good for already being the spice of life. 0:06:36.981 --> 0:06:39.861 Blah blah. Now I want to be really clear. People 0:06:39.902 --> 0:06:40.742 in glasshouses. 0:06:41.142 --> 0:06:44.341 Right, There is a large part of my professional life 0:06:44.782 --> 0:06:48.341 that is all about dissecting pop culture moments about celebrities. 0:06:48.462 --> 0:06:48.942 It's a job. 0:06:49.061 --> 0:06:51.902 It's my job, exactly, and so there's no doubt that 0:06:52.022 --> 0:06:54.462 I often veer into this kind of stuff where I'm 0:06:54.582 --> 0:06:57.342 like making a lot of presumptions about people's private lives 0:06:57.342 --> 0:06:58.902 that are absolutely none of my business. 0:06:59.782 --> 0:07:01.662 So I'm not being on a high horse about what 0:07:01.782 --> 0:07:02.462 I'm about to say. 0:07:03.181 --> 0:07:06.821 It's just that so many people sent me this article 0:07:06.861 --> 0:07:08.702 by Holly Bell, like even before we published it on 0:07:08.741 --> 0:07:11.622 MoMA Mea when it was a people dm'd it to me. 0:07:11.982 --> 0:07:13.902 My friends texted it to me. They were all like, 0:07:14.022 --> 0:07:14.781 oh my god. 0:07:14.821 --> 0:07:17.582 This as in like they thought you would agree with it, well, 0:07:17.582 --> 0:07:19.462 that I would maybe agree with it, that I have 0:07:19.542 --> 0:07:20.941 a kinto about it, right, yeah, that. 0:07:21.022 --> 0:07:23.862 I would have thoughts, and of course you don't have thoughts. 0:07:24.062 --> 0:07:27.062 And now we're here, and now we're here, but I 0:07:27.142 --> 0:07:29.822 want to unpack a few of Bell's points and then well, 0:07:29.902 --> 0:07:33.982 I'll talk about why it obsessed me. Basically, the premise 0:07:34.062 --> 0:07:36.702 of Hollybell's story was that that DOCCO when it came 0:07:36.742 --> 0:07:38.982 to Victoria and David Beckham together, was full of red flags. 0:07:39.821 --> 0:07:40.302 She said. 0:07:40.342 --> 0:07:41.902 Some of the red flags was a long list, but 0:07:41.941 --> 0:07:43.902 one of them was there was a scene where he's 0:07:43.982 --> 0:07:46.422 making a smoothie in the kitchen and she says he 0:07:46.542 --> 0:07:48.941 turned the blender on every time she started speaking, and. 0:07:49.022 --> 0:07:49.542 That was funny. 0:07:49.902 --> 0:07:53.941 I thought it was funny for me, it was kind 0:07:53.982 --> 0:07:56.742 of funny. It depends, I think, on whether he does 0:07:56.941 --> 0:07:59.062 shit like that all the time or whether that was 0:07:59.142 --> 0:08:01.102 like a hamming it up for the camerig moment. 0:08:01.462 --> 0:08:01.702 Yeah. 0:08:02.222 --> 0:08:04.542 So Holly Bell's said about that, that what he was 0:08:04.622 --> 0:08:09.302 insinuating that she's less important than blended vegetables. She can't complain, 0:08:09.862 --> 0:08:11.822 or she can't take a joke, she can't stop him, 0:08:11.941 --> 0:08:13.141 or she's being the fun police. 0:08:13.182 --> 0:08:16.102 Okay, red flag number one, red flag number two. 0:08:16.381 --> 0:08:19.102 In the infamous Rolls Royce meme, we all remember that 0:08:19.182 --> 0:08:23.222 from the first David do Co she was talking about 0:08:23.222 --> 0:08:24.942 being for a working class background and he comes to 0:08:25.022 --> 0:08:27.302 the door and he's like, tell the truth, Tell the 0:08:27.422 --> 0:08:29.502 truth and she's like, my dad had a Rolls Royce. 0:08:30.062 --> 0:08:34.541 Holly Bell writes that this is him being jealous of her. 0:08:34.542 --> 0:08:38.582 Family's money and uncomfortable because he came from a different background. 0:08:38.782 --> 0:08:40.502 But we did find out a little bit on context 0:08:40.542 --> 0:08:44.102 to that Rolls Royce thing in this documentary, because it 0:08:44.222 --> 0:08:47.062 wasn't like they lived in a palace. They lived in 0:08:47.142 --> 0:08:50.342 a rundown old place that her dad essentially put together 0:08:50.382 --> 0:08:53.702 piece by piece whilst also running his electronics business, and 0:08:53.862 --> 0:08:56.262 so he was really kind of a trade I guess 0:08:57.022 --> 0:08:59.302 at the heart of it. Also, he was working class. 0:08:59.542 --> 0:09:01.222 She was really yeah, and we went into this in 0:09:01.302 --> 0:09:02.302 detail on out loud. 0:09:02.382 --> 0:09:06.422 This isn't a complex English class system thing see Gin 0:09:06.542 --> 0:09:10.102 and Coke. Anyway, that's I digress. But what I see 0:09:10.142 --> 0:09:12.582 when I see that Tell the Truth is a couple 0:09:13.022 --> 0:09:14.822 who've had a long history and they take the piss 0:09:14.862 --> 0:09:16.862 out of the stories that everyone tells about themselves. That's 0:09:16.902 --> 0:09:18.622 what I see, right when I see that bit, I 0:09:18.702 --> 0:09:23.302 don't see anger. I see like affection and joshing. And 0:09:23.382 --> 0:09:24.662 this is what I'm getting to, right. 0:09:24.582 --> 0:09:26.982 It's like how we all see something different in the 0:09:27.062 --> 0:09:27.462 same things. 0:09:28.062 --> 0:09:30.302 And then she also says there's a red flag in 0:09:30.342 --> 0:09:33.342 that bit at the beginning where David offers Victoria a 0:09:33.462 --> 0:09:35.462 chocolate when he knows she's not going to eat a 0:09:35.542 --> 0:09:38.302 chocolate and she says something like I haven't eaten chocolate 0:09:38.382 --> 0:09:40.381 since the nineties, and everyone goes ha ha ha, And 0:09:40.462 --> 0:09:43.102 then later in the documentary she talks more seriously about 0:09:43.142 --> 0:09:46.182 her issues with food and disordered eating. Holly Bell wrote, 0:09:46.622 --> 0:09:49.742 he's telling a story because he was also famously said 0:09:49.902 --> 0:09:51.302 she won't eat what he cooks for her. 0:09:51.422 --> 0:09:53.502 She only eats like fish, fish, and vegetables. 0:09:54.022 --> 0:09:56.261 He's telling this story to paint a negative picture of 0:09:56.342 --> 0:09:59.381 Victoria while gilding himself with a halo of loving to 0:09:59.502 --> 0:10:02.502 share food with his wife. She goes on to suggest 0:10:02.582 --> 0:10:06.662 that he might be Posh's ongoing trigger, that, my friends, 0:10:06.782 --> 0:10:09.742 is what we call an overstep in the inner us? 0:10:09.782 --> 0:10:13.022 Is it again? What I see there as a joke, 0:10:13.182 --> 0:10:15.582 like a bit of a dangerous joke, but a joke. 0:10:15.462 --> 0:10:17.862 Between two people who've been together for nearly like something 0:10:17.902 --> 0:10:20.342 that you think he ongoingly like asks her, do you 0:10:20.342 --> 0:10:21.142 want a piece of chocolate? 0:10:21.182 --> 0:10:25.542 And the bit is, but do we get the picture right? 0:10:25.622 --> 0:10:28.982 The Posh doco from my perspective, is a highly managed, 0:10:29.102 --> 0:10:33.261 highly edited documentary, So I think that what I see 0:10:33.342 --> 0:10:35.502 in it is I see the bits of their life 0:10:35.542 --> 0:10:38.382 they wanted to share. Of course, and it's quite lighthearted 0:10:38.822 --> 0:10:41.342 and it's a bit of a joke. But what other 0:10:41.422 --> 0:10:43.182 people saw, what Holly Bell saw and a lot of 0:10:43.222 --> 0:10:45.782 people who loved that story and shared it was a 0:10:45.902 --> 0:10:48.942 marriage that had serious power dynamics. And this plays into 0:10:48.982 --> 0:10:52.502 my theory that really when we look at celebrity relationships 0:10:52.542 --> 0:10:54.742 and we may call our assumptions about them, it's all 0:10:54.782 --> 0:10:56.462 about our experiences. 0:10:56.862 --> 0:10:58.182 So if you've had a. 0:10:58.262 --> 0:11:02.182 Controlling partner who was I mean, and I have in 0:11:02.262 --> 0:11:04.742 my time but not for a long time, who you know, 0:11:04.942 --> 0:11:06.702 will be like do you want a piece of chocolate 0:11:07.662 --> 0:11:09.702 knowing you won't have it, or teasing you about what 0:11:09.822 --> 0:11:12.782 you're eating, or like poking at a vulnerability of yours, 0:11:13.582 --> 0:11:16.622 You would probably see that scene really differently to if 0:11:16.702 --> 0:11:19.222 you're like my husband or my partner or whatever takes 0:11:19.222 --> 0:11:19.942 the piss out of me. 0:11:20.022 --> 0:11:23.222 About being on a diet or you know, growing up 0:11:23.622 --> 0:11:25.342 rich or not. You know what I mean, It's all 0:11:25.342 --> 0:11:27.022 about what you see and also like what. 0:11:27.262 --> 0:11:29.662 You want to see, Like you kind of pick and 0:11:29.782 --> 0:11:34.142 choose how you interpret their interactions between each other. When 0:11:34.222 --> 0:11:37.822 I watched the documentary, it's interesting because I didn't see 0:11:38.142 --> 0:11:41.222 everything that Holly saw, who wrote the substack, But I 0:11:41.302 --> 0:11:44.381 also didn't see affection at all. What I saw was 0:11:44.462 --> 0:11:49.142 like every other Gen X relationship I've ever seen, where 0:11:49.182 --> 0:11:53.302 it's like partners who like each other but actually don't 0:11:53.342 --> 0:11:56.342 really show it out loud, and like especially that end 0:11:56.462 --> 0:11:59.422 scene where they're walking in the garden and they literally 0:11:59.502 --> 0:12:01.782 look like best friends because they're not touching each. 0:12:01.622 --> 0:12:03.582 Other together for nearly thirty years. 0:12:03.982 --> 0:12:06.582 Yeah, but like they're not like lovey dovey, But I 0:12:06.622 --> 0:12:08.942 also don't think they hate each other. And I like, 0:12:09.822 --> 0:12:12.422 it just looks like an average relationship. Like not definitely 0:12:12.462 --> 0:12:14.662 not the relationship I would want ever, but it just 0:12:14.742 --> 0:12:15.422 looks average. 0:12:15.782 --> 0:12:18.381 We expecting it to look like a fairy tale because 0:12:18.422 --> 0:12:20.702 their beginnings were so fairy tale, so we expect that 0:12:20.742 --> 0:12:22.582 fairy tale to have extended for thirty years. Is that 0:12:22.662 --> 0:12:23.222 what we're hoping? 0:12:23.302 --> 0:12:24.702 Well, should look like they at least like it. 0:12:24.822 --> 0:12:27.222 I think they definitely look like they like each other. 0:12:27.262 --> 0:12:29.382 I think they look like they like each other a lot. 0:12:29.742 --> 0:12:31.902 But do you think Murphy that one of the reasons 0:12:31.942 --> 0:12:35.582 we're so obsessed with other people's marriages, like whether they're 0:12:35.622 --> 0:12:38.302 celebrities or people we sort of adja like, no, by all, 0:12:38.422 --> 0:12:40.502 look at that couple over there that I'm talking over dinner, 0:12:40.662 --> 0:12:42.502 or look at those people over there, look at how 0:12:42.582 --> 0:12:44.381 he didn't pull a chair out, or whatever it is, 0:12:45.182 --> 0:12:48.902 because we're kind of raw shark testing things, like you know, 0:12:49.022 --> 0:12:52.182 we see what we see according to our own experiences. 0:12:52.582 --> 0:12:56.542 I think that is absolutely bang on, because I would 0:12:56.622 --> 0:12:59.102 actually hate for cameras to come in and record what 0:12:59.782 --> 0:13:01.502 Adam and I, my husband and I say to each 0:13:01.502 --> 0:13:04.382 other sometimes because we are constantly taking the piss out 0:13:04.422 --> 0:13:07.662 of each other in ways that require some law to 0:13:07.782 --> 0:13:11.782 be learned before you can and participate. And so they 0:13:12.182 --> 0:13:14.502 looking in at us might think we are absolute assholes 0:13:14.542 --> 0:13:16.902 to each other. But the reality is that's a long 0:13:17.062 --> 0:13:19.902 history of funny things that we've collected over the years 0:13:19.982 --> 0:13:23.342 and we internally find hilarious. But people looking in would 0:13:23.382 --> 0:13:25.182 be like, oh my god, do you guys even like 0:13:25.262 --> 0:13:27.662 each other? Whereas like we go to bed at night 0:13:27.782 --> 0:13:30.982 laughing at other people who might think that we don't 0:13:31.182 --> 0:13:32.422 like each other, if you know what I mean. So, 0:13:32.582 --> 0:13:34.942 like I felt that a little bit from passion becks. 0:13:35.342 --> 0:13:37.942 I also feel like they've never had an opportunity to 0:13:38.102 --> 0:13:41.942 just kind of be to like settle and not put 0:13:41.982 --> 0:13:44.342 on a show. Like their entire lives essentially have been 0:13:44.382 --> 0:13:47.022 showmanship from her, from him, from both of them together. 0:13:47.462 --> 0:13:50.222 Now they're family because as you know, you've probably mentioned that, 0:13:50.462 --> 0:13:52.702 you know, there's some family members that do not rate 0:13:52.782 --> 0:13:57.222 a mention during the recording of Victoria Beckham. Their whole 0:13:57.262 --> 0:14:00.742 life is a show, so maybe they just don't put 0:14:00.822 --> 0:14:02.982 on the PDAs. Although the one thing I did find 0:14:03.022 --> 0:14:06.462 a little bit uncomfortable is that Victoria seemed outwardly affectionate 0:14:06.502 --> 0:14:08.662 to him, and he didn't seem to return it very often. 0:14:09.142 --> 0:14:10.822 And I think think that is when you mentioned gen 0:14:10.982 --> 0:14:13.822 X couples, and I think that is sometimes a bit 0:14:13.862 --> 0:14:15.502 of an m O for gen X couples, where men 0:14:15.862 --> 0:14:19.102 are supposed to kind of be this unemotional sort of 0:14:19.182 --> 0:14:21.662 flat line when it comes to certain things, but when 0:14:21.702 --> 0:14:24.062 they talk about say cars or football, or, in you 0:14:24.142 --> 0:14:26.902 know Beckham's case, his food, they're allowed to be emotional 0:14:26.942 --> 0:14:30.262 and passionate about that garden. Yeah, the garden, like the 0:14:30.382 --> 0:14:32.702 chickens whatever. He seems very excited by. 0:14:33.062 --> 0:14:34.222 He loves the garden. 0:14:35.542 --> 0:14:39.342 Celebrity relationships. I mean, I know you're probably too sensible 0:14:39.382 --> 0:14:40.902 for this, murf, but I might be wrong. And I 0:14:41.022 --> 0:14:43.022 know AM's got some good examples, But are there any 0:14:43.102 --> 0:14:46.742 celebrity relationships that you do look at and either go, 0:14:47.622 --> 0:14:49.902 you know, I want to emulate that, or oh I 0:14:49.982 --> 0:14:51.702 feel that, so you know, like I do that raw 0:14:51.782 --> 0:14:52.942 shark testing stuff on. 0:14:53.302 --> 0:14:56.422 Naomi Watts and her husband Billy crudd Up. I think 0:14:56.742 --> 0:14:58.822 I look at them, but they are like married later 0:14:58.942 --> 0:15:02.662 in life couple, which is really different from say, Hugh 0:15:02.782 --> 0:15:05.742 Jackman and Debraly Finesse, who got married quite young, and 0:15:05.822 --> 0:15:08.542 then we've seen them kind of progress out of love. 0:15:09.062 --> 0:15:10.782 And so I I felt like we held up some 0:15:10.902 --> 0:15:14.502 of these couples and thought, like, if they fail, then 0:15:14.622 --> 0:15:19.062 surely I can't not fail too, because they've presented this 0:15:19.182 --> 0:15:21.542 fairytale ideal of what marriage looks like to the outset, 0:15:21.582 --> 0:15:24.342 and we saw this with Nicole and Keith too. And 0:15:24.422 --> 0:15:26.342 something someone said to me a little while ago is 0:15:26.702 --> 0:15:28.342 I used to get really upset that my husband doesn't 0:15:28.342 --> 0:15:30.622 post stuff about us on social media. In fact, he 0:15:30.622 --> 0:15:32.862 doesn't post anything, but like I was upset that, like 0:15:33.022 --> 0:15:35.662 not even a happy birthday, not even like a look 0:15:35.702 --> 0:15:38.862 at this woman on my wedding anniversary. Nothing right. And 0:15:38.902 --> 0:15:40.422 then a friend said to me, look, it is often 0:15:40.502 --> 0:15:44.542 a measure of an insecure relationship if there's too much 0:15:44.942 --> 0:15:47.422 posting on social media. And I looked into it a 0:15:47.462 --> 0:15:49.022 little bit, and there is a lot of research around that, 0:15:49.182 --> 0:15:53.262 and that we saw Nicole quite regularly posting lovey dovey 0:15:53.302 --> 0:15:56.222 stuff about Keith and he's kind of like he'll chuck 0:15:56.222 --> 0:15:58.462 an emoji and every now and then, so less kind 0:15:58.502 --> 0:16:01.102 of you know, reaction from him. And so was that 0:16:01.422 --> 0:16:03.302 her trying to cover up the fact that she was 0:16:03.342 --> 0:16:06.382 really insecure in her relationship. So yes, I've held up 0:16:06.382 --> 0:16:08.462 some of these marriages over time and gone like I 0:16:08.502 --> 0:16:10.222 would love to be like that, love to be like that. 0:16:10.502 --> 0:16:11.982 But then eventually you kind of look at them and 0:16:12.022 --> 0:16:14.222 you go, we're all kind of similar, except I have 0:16:14.382 --> 0:16:18.702 less outward pressure from money probably and way less money, 0:16:19.142 --> 0:16:21.982 and you know, no one's stalking me outside my front door. 0:16:22.142 --> 0:16:25.702 Emma. The celebrity couples that you go, that's what I want. 0:16:25.862 --> 0:16:28.622 Oh my god, Okay, I need to talk about Dua 0:16:28.702 --> 0:16:30.142 Lipa and Callum Turner. 0:16:30.262 --> 0:16:33.342 Have you guys seen them today? 0:16:33.422 --> 0:16:37.462 In fact, that they allegedly met and were sitting next 0:16:37.502 --> 0:16:39.302 to each other at a party and they realized they're 0:16:39.302 --> 0:16:40.222 reading the same. 0:16:40.102 --> 0:16:44.142 Book page and that's why they fell in love. And 0:16:44.142 --> 0:16:46.022 I was like that, and that you're the two hottest 0:16:46.062 --> 0:16:47.822 people party by about a million. 0:16:47.862 --> 0:16:49.942 I'm googling them right now. I need to see images 0:16:49.942 --> 0:16:50.142 of them. 0:16:50.222 --> 0:16:52.622 They're very PDA. Yeah, I do not believe that meat 0:16:52.662 --> 0:16:54.622 cute story, although that's very cute. 0:16:55.062 --> 0:16:57.222 And also it plays into something we've discussed before, and 0:16:57.342 --> 0:16:59.142 which is there's nothing hotter than a man who reads. 0:17:00.102 --> 0:17:02.862 If he's doing all that's a true story, then good 0:17:02.902 --> 0:17:04.742 for him. And if it's not a true story, then 0:17:04.821 --> 0:17:06.742 good for him for being smart enough. Because everyone knows 0:17:06.821 --> 0:17:07.782 Jua Lipa likes to reach. 0:17:07.821 --> 0:17:11.422 He has a bottle. Anyway, I digress, goem these two 0:17:11.942 --> 0:17:16.182 extremely attractive people. When they are together, it's. 0:17:16.141 --> 0:17:19.022 Like, I don't think they're allowed to not touch each other. 0:17:19.702 --> 0:17:24.142 He's always has his hands around her hips. They're always giggling, 0:17:24.262 --> 0:17:27.782 they're always making out, they're always laughing into each other's mouths. 0:17:27.901 --> 0:17:31.022 It is like I can't look away, no, and it 0:17:31.141 --> 0:17:34.981 loves them. Just said so, and similar to. 0:17:35.422 --> 0:17:40.022 Like your sad gen X celebrity relationships, like they're the 0:17:40.141 --> 0:17:43.101 relationship that I feel like younger women are holding onto 0:17:43.581 --> 0:17:47.141 and they're telling us, like, that's exactly how relationships should be. 0:17:47.381 --> 0:17:49.661 But and I hate to be this person, but I've 0:17:49.702 --> 0:17:52.461 got to be this person. Do you think they're going 0:17:52.542 --> 0:17:54.941 to be doing exactly that in twenty years if they 0:17:54.982 --> 0:17:56.862 stay together for twenty years, go through a whole. 0:17:56.702 --> 0:17:59.381 Lot, Oh my god, if they're laughing into each other's 0:17:59.462 --> 0:18:00.902 mouths in twenty years time. 0:18:01.422 --> 0:18:05.142 Lo, you have to have they have to have respect 0:18:05.262 --> 0:18:07.621 for the fact that love changes and grows and doesn't 0:18:07.661 --> 0:18:09.621 look the same all the time, but it's still a 0:18:09.702 --> 0:18:12.621 real thing, you know what I mean. Like, so again, 0:18:12.861 --> 0:18:14.782 I think that they're a wonderful. 0:18:14.702 --> 0:18:16.661