1 00:00:10,574 --> 00:00:15,294 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mama Mia podcast. Mumma mea acknowledges 2 00:00:15,334 --> 00:00:18,174 Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast 3 00:00:18,214 --> 00:00:19,134 Speaker 1: is recorded on. 4 00:00:21,934 --> 00:00:22,134 Speaker 2: Hi. 5 00:00:22,294 --> 00:00:25,454 Speaker 1: I'm Grace Ruverray. This is Muma Me's twice daily news podcast, 6 00:00:25,494 --> 00:00:28,814 Speaker 1: The Quickie. It's almost a rite of passage for First 7 00:00:28,854 --> 00:00:31,774 Speaker 1: Ladies to write a memoir, a tradition that began in 8 00:00:31,814 --> 00:00:35,854 Speaker 1: the eighteen hundreds when Abigail Adams had her correspondence published 9 00:00:35,894 --> 00:00:39,054 Speaker 1: as Letters of Missus Adams, the wife of John Adams. 10 00:00:39,694 --> 00:00:42,454 Speaker 1: To date, thirteen First Ladies have written a total of 11 00:00:42,494 --> 00:00:45,254 Speaker 1: twenty two memoirs during or after their time in the 12 00:00:45,254 --> 00:00:48,654 Speaker 1: White House. This week, Milania Trump joins their ranks with 13 00:00:48,734 --> 00:00:52,054 Speaker 1: her memoir Millennia. The scandal of this book is that 14 00:00:52,134 --> 00:00:55,894 Speaker 1: there is seemingly no scandal at all, Minimal press releases, 15 00:00:55,934 --> 00:01:00,054 Speaker 1: shrouded in mystery, with just one tiny reveal. So what's 16 00:01:00,094 --> 00:01:02,934 Speaker 1: the book really about? Will it offer secrets from inside 17 00:01:02,974 --> 00:01:05,814 Speaker 1: the White House or serve as a lukewarm non story 18 00:01:05,814 --> 00:01:09,334 Speaker 1: political tool ahead of November's election Before we hear about 19 00:01:09,334 --> 00:01:12,174 Speaker 1: Ma Larnia's story, Here is the lenis from the quickiewsroom 20 00:01:12,254 --> 00:01:16,294 Speaker 1: for Thursday, October ten. Attempts to hide the next robodebt 21 00:01:16,334 --> 00:01:20,214 Speaker 1: scandal from independent oversight over the public service will be 22 00:01:20,254 --> 00:01:24,094 Speaker 1: punished by thousands of dollars in fines. Bureaucrats and agency 23 00:01:24,134 --> 00:01:28,094 Speaker 1: bosses would be bound to help investigations, while though stonewalling 24 00:01:28,174 --> 00:01:31,254 Speaker 1: access to files could be dragged to court. The changes 25 00:01:31,254 --> 00:01:34,654 Speaker 1: proposed by the Albanese government are aimed at ensuring Commonwealth 26 00:01:34,694 --> 00:01:38,414 Speaker 1: agencies are subject to stronger and more rigorous scrutiny. They 27 00:01:38,494 --> 00:01:42,654 Speaker 1: fulfill two recommendations from the Robodebt Royal Commission, which found 28 00:01:42,694 --> 00:01:45,414 Speaker 1: more than seven hundred and fifty million dollars was illegally 29 00:01:45,454 --> 00:01:49,094 Speaker 1: recovered from welfare recipients. The scheme relied on a flawed 30 00:01:49,134 --> 00:01:53,574 Speaker 1: algorithm to identify individuals who owed the government money, affecting 31 00:01:53,654 --> 00:01:56,454 Speaker 1: three hundred and eighty one thousand people over five years. 32 00:01:57,014 --> 00:02:00,014 Speaker 1: Robodet was known to be unfair and probably illegal in 33 00:02:00,054 --> 00:02:03,094 Speaker 1: early twenty seventeen, but it wasn't stopped by the coalition 34 00:02:03,134 --> 00:02:07,254 Speaker 1: government till twenty nineteen. Under new laws, every supermarket merger 35 00:02:07,294 --> 00:02:10,734 Speaker 1: will be reviewed by the competition regulator to prevent market 36 00:02:10,734 --> 00:02:14,934 Speaker 1: concentration and lower prices. Federal Treasurer Jim Chalmers is pushing 37 00:02:14,934 --> 00:02:18,614 Speaker 1: for significant reforms arguing current rules fail to block anti 38 00:02:18,654 --> 00:02:22,734 Speaker 1: competitive deals or allow harmless ones to proceed smoothly. The 39 00:02:22,814 --> 00:02:27,574 Speaker 1: changes include mandatory notifications for mergers above specific financial thresholds, 40 00:02:27,774 --> 00:02:30,854 Speaker 1: with flexibility for the treasure to adjust them. These powers 41 00:02:30,934 --> 00:02:34,334 Speaker 1: ensure the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission can assess all 42 00:02:34,414 --> 00:02:38,694 Speaker 1: concerning mergers. The government is also reviewing competition in major sectors, 43 00:02:38,734 --> 00:02:41,334 Speaker 1: with a draft code of Conduct due in later twenty 44 00:02:41,414 --> 00:02:44,534 Speaker 1: twenty four. A social media summit co hosted by New 45 00:02:44,574 --> 00:02:47,214 Speaker 1: South Wales and South Australia will focus on the potential 46 00:02:47,294 --> 00:02:50,734 Speaker 1: social media youth ban and its mental health impacts. Prime 47 00:02:50,734 --> 00:02:53,854 Speaker 1: Minister Anthony Albanesi and state leaders support an age limit, 48 00:02:53,934 --> 00:02:56,694 Speaker 1: but have yet to decide on the cutoff reach out 49 00:02:56,734 --> 00:03:00,134 Speaker 1: a youth mental health group Warren's banning social media could 50 00:03:00,174 --> 00:03:03,534 Speaker 1: block essential support for young people after a survey showed 51 00:03:03,534 --> 00:03:05,934 Speaker 1: that three quarters of users from a two thousand person 52 00:03:06,014 --> 00:03:09,654 Speaker 1: survey were using the platform for mental health help. Prime 53 00:03:09,694 --> 00:03:12,294 Speaker 1: Minister has sought input from leaders on implementing the band, 54 00:03:12,374 --> 00:03:15,494 Speaker 1: setting age limits and whether existing accounts for young users 55 00:03:15,494 --> 00:03:18,934 Speaker 1: would be exempt. The long held tradition of line judges 56 00:03:19,014 --> 00:03:22,414 Speaker 1: dressed in elegant uniforms is no more. The All England 57 00:03:22,454 --> 00:03:26,374 Speaker 1: Club announced on Wednesday that artificial intelligence will be used 58 00:03:26,414 --> 00:03:29,334 Speaker 1: to make the out and fault calls at the Championships 59 00:03:29,334 --> 00:03:32,934 Speaker 1: for twenty twenty five. Wimbledon organizers said the decision to 60 00:03:32,974 --> 00:03:36,814 Speaker 1: adopt live electronic line calling was made following the extensive 61 00:03:36,854 --> 00:03:39,574 Speaker 1: testing at the twenty twenty four tournament and builds on 62 00:03:39,654 --> 00:03:43,054 Speaker 1: existing ball tracking and line calling technology that has been 63 00:03:43,134 --> 00:03:46,574 Speaker 1: in place for many years. Sally Bolton, the Chief executive 64 00:03:46,614 --> 00:03:49,534 Speaker 1: of the All England Club, said, we consider the technology 65 00:03:49,574 --> 00:03:52,414 Speaker 1: to be sufficiently robust and the time is right to 66 00:03:52,454 --> 00:03:56,694 Speaker 1: take this important step in seeking maximum accuracy in our officiating, 67 00:03:57,054 --> 00:04:00,774 Speaker 1: and that Wimbledon had a responsibility to balance tradition and innovation. 68 00:04:01,814 --> 00:04:04,654 Speaker 1: Next is the release of Millennia's memoir, a political tool 69 00:04:04,694 --> 00:04:18,574 Speaker 1: ahead of the upcoming election. Former First Lady Milania Trump 70 00:04:18,654 --> 00:04:22,894 Speaker 1: released her memoir Milania, on October eighth. While this might 71 00:04:22,934 --> 00:04:25,894 Speaker 1: not be surprising given it may be a contractual obligation 72 00:04:26,014 --> 00:04:28,214 Speaker 1: for First Ladies to share their thoughts with the world. 73 00:04:28,614 --> 00:04:30,614 Speaker 1: Since Trump's time in the White House, there have been 74 00:04:30,694 --> 00:04:34,814 Speaker 1: at least eleven books penned by former Winehouse officials, intelligence 75 00:04:34,854 --> 00:04:38,454 Speaker 1: agents and insiders. Before we get to what's in the book? 76 00:04:38,814 --> 00:04:42,254 Speaker 1: How did Malania's book come to be? Alex Nicholson is 77 00:04:42,294 --> 00:04:45,014 Speaker 1: a writer and the senior weekend editor here at Mamma Mia. 78 00:04:45,374 --> 00:04:49,614 Speaker 1: She's also responsible for ghostwriting some of your favorite celebrities books, 79 00:04:50,054 --> 00:04:53,214 Speaker 1: but to maintain her client's full atonymity, we won't reveal 80 00:04:53,254 --> 00:04:56,294 Speaker 1: the books she's written. Alex It says that Millennia's book 81 00:04:56,334 --> 00:05:00,014 Speaker 1: is an autobiography, and she's even tweeted, may your experience 82 00:05:00,054 --> 00:05:03,174 Speaker 1: reading my book be as enjoyable as the writing process 83 00:05:03,334 --> 00:05:06,414 Speaker 1: was for me. How often does a celebrity actually write 84 00:05:06,454 --> 00:05:07,174 Speaker 1: their own book? 85 00:05:07,854 --> 00:05:14,894 Speaker 3: According to agencies out there that provide ghostwriting services, conservative estimate, 86 00:05:15,534 --> 00:05:18,214 Speaker 3: maybe eighty percent of celebrity books that ghost written. 87 00:05:18,494 --> 00:05:19,574 Speaker 1: Wow, eighty percent. 88 00:05:20,294 --> 00:05:21,134 Speaker 2: I don't think there's. 89 00:05:20,934 --> 00:05:23,814 Speaker 3: Any shame in that. You know, everyone has a different 90 00:05:23,854 --> 00:05:28,374 Speaker 3: skill set. Being good at what they do doesn't necessarily 91 00:05:28,414 --> 00:05:31,494 Speaker 3: instantly translate into them being a great writer, And it 92 00:05:31,574 --> 00:05:34,814 Speaker 3: might also come down to not whether they're a good 93 00:05:34,814 --> 00:05:37,534 Speaker 3: writer or not, but simply having time. Because writing a 94 00:05:37,574 --> 00:05:39,734 Speaker 3: book is a really lengthy process. 95 00:05:40,094 --> 00:05:42,854 Speaker 1: Do you feel like you become a gatekeeper for all 96 00:05:42,894 --> 00:05:44,814 Speaker 1: their personal life and their information. 97 00:05:45,654 --> 00:05:48,094 Speaker 3: That's what everyone wants to know, right the juicy details. 98 00:05:48,614 --> 00:05:52,934 Speaker 3: The thing is, I find that when you're interviewing someone 99 00:05:53,174 --> 00:05:56,734 Speaker 3: for a book, it can almost start to feel like therapy. 100 00:05:56,854 --> 00:05:58,854 Speaker 3: And like, I am not a therapist, I am not 101 00:05:58,934 --> 00:06:01,734 Speaker 3: in any way trained in that regard. But you know, 102 00:06:01,814 --> 00:06:06,814 Speaker 3: to have someone who's sitting just listening, asking you occasional questions, 103 00:06:06,934 --> 00:06:11,694 Speaker 3: no judgment, you create this really open and safe space. 104 00:06:12,134 --> 00:06:15,494 Speaker 3: And in that kind of space, people, the celebrities do 105 00:06:15,694 --> 00:06:18,974 Speaker 3: just want to talk tidbits of information or stories that 106 00:06:18,974 --> 00:06:21,294 Speaker 3: they don't actually want to include in the book. You 107 00:06:21,334 --> 00:06:23,694 Speaker 3: want to honor that trust that they're putting in you. 108 00:06:23,694 --> 00:06:26,054 Speaker 3: You know, you work hard to build that trust. That's 109 00:06:26,054 --> 00:06:27,494 Speaker 3: how you get a great book at the end. 110 00:06:28,094 --> 00:06:30,734 Speaker 1: Is there any doubt in your mind that Millenia would 111 00:06:30,774 --> 00:06:32,574 Speaker 1: have used a ghostwriter for her book? 112 00:06:32,854 --> 00:06:35,774 Speaker 3: I don't like speaking it absolute. I'd like to being 113 00:06:35,814 --> 00:06:38,294 Speaker 3: quite careful about what I say, but I would be 114 00:06:38,894 --> 00:06:42,014 Speaker 3: very surprised if she didn't use a ghost writer. And 115 00:06:42,014 --> 00:06:45,374 Speaker 3: that's no shade to Millenia. I'm sure she has many talents, 116 00:06:45,614 --> 00:06:49,494 Speaker 3: but not everyone's a writer, and that's okay. 117 00:06:50,454 --> 00:06:53,454 Speaker 1: The role out of Millennia Trump's book hasn't been accompanied 118 00:06:53,454 --> 00:06:57,054 Speaker 1: by a major pr campaign. In fact, when CNN requested 119 00:06:57,094 --> 00:07:00,214 Speaker 1: an interview with her, the publisher reportedly asked for two 120 00:07:00,334 --> 00:07:03,694 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars in exchange. While paying for 121 00:07:03,774 --> 00:07:07,254 Speaker 1: exclusive rights on interviews isn't unheard of, especially when it 122 00:07:07,254 --> 00:07:10,934 Speaker 1: comes to scandals, it's widely considered to cross ethical boundaries 123 00:07:10,974 --> 00:07:14,854 Speaker 1: in journalism and is far from standard practice. The publisher 124 00:07:14,934 --> 00:07:17,654 Speaker 1: later claimed the request was made in error. As for 125 00:07:17,694 --> 00:07:20,494 Speaker 1: scandals or revelations, the only one that we know so 126 00:07:20,534 --> 00:07:23,534 Speaker 1: far is that Millennia is pro choice. In the trailer 127 00:07:23,534 --> 00:07:25,614 Speaker 1: for the memoir, she revealed that she is a passionate 128 00:07:25,654 --> 00:07:28,694 Speaker 1: advocate for women's rights, including the right to abortion. 129 00:07:29,534 --> 00:07:32,774 Speaker 4: Without a doubt, there is no room for compromise when 130 00:07:32,774 --> 00:07:36,974 Speaker 4: it comes to this essential right that all women possess 131 00:07:37,174 --> 00:07:40,734 Speaker 4: from birth individual freedom. 132 00:07:41,254 --> 00:07:44,494 Speaker 1: Kate Anderson Brauer is a journalist and New York Times 133 00:07:44,494 --> 00:07:47,574 Speaker 1: best selling author. She has written six books about the 134 00:07:47,574 --> 00:07:50,934 Speaker 1: White House, presidents, vice presidents, and First Ladies, with her 135 00:07:50,974 --> 00:07:53,694 Speaker 1: next book, The Hill Inside the Secret World of the 136 00:07:53,774 --> 00:07:57,374 Speaker 1: US Capitol released this week. Kate as someone who has 137 00:07:57,374 --> 00:08:00,334 Speaker 1: written multiple books about life on the Hill, the inner 138 00:08:00,374 --> 00:08:02,934 Speaker 1: workings of the US government, and about the impact of 139 00:08:02,974 --> 00:08:05,614 Speaker 1: First Ladies. Is this memoir different to what we have 140 00:08:05,694 --> 00:08:07,494 Speaker 1: previously seen from people in government. 141 00:08:08,294 --> 00:08:10,734 Speaker 5: Yes, I think it because as there's so little that 142 00:08:10,814 --> 00:08:15,814 Speaker 5: people actually know about Milania Trump that anything that you 143 00:08:15,894 --> 00:08:20,334 Speaker 5: can glean about her is more interesting than your average 144 00:08:20,374 --> 00:08:23,254 Speaker 5: political book, just because she's been such a cipher and 145 00:08:23,334 --> 00:08:24,774 Speaker 5: hard to figure out. 146 00:08:24,974 --> 00:08:27,654 Speaker 1: We haven't seen Malania for most of the presidential campaign 147 00:08:27,734 --> 00:08:30,414 Speaker 1: this time, like we did in the twenty sixteen run. 148 00:08:30,854 --> 00:08:33,174 Speaker 1: In this time, as she've been busy writing the book, 149 00:08:33,254 --> 00:08:34,774 Speaker 1: or do you think there's something else going on? 150 00:08:35,454 --> 00:08:37,694 Speaker 5: I wish that I knew the answer to that question. 151 00:08:37,734 --> 00:08:41,214 Speaker 5: It's something that everybody wants to know what she's doing 152 00:08:41,214 --> 00:08:44,814 Speaker 5: and thinking. I mean, this book was a revelation to 153 00:08:44,894 --> 00:08:49,734 Speaker 5: me and truly jaw dropping to read the excerpts about 154 00:08:49,774 --> 00:08:54,334 Speaker 5: her position on abortion and women's rights. I mean, it 155 00:08:54,494 --> 00:08:57,334 Speaker 5: was not at all what I was expecting to see 156 00:08:57,374 --> 00:09:02,014 Speaker 5: from somebody whose husband dramatically made it so that Roe 157 00:09:02,054 --> 00:09:05,654 Speaker 5: versus Wade was overturned in the Supreme Court. And yet 158 00:09:05,894 --> 00:09:08,334 Speaker 5: you wonder were they having arguments in the White House 159 00:09:08,374 --> 00:09:08,894 Speaker 5: about this? 160 00:09:09,134 --> 00:09:09,294 Speaker 2: Was this? 161 00:09:09,734 --> 00:09:12,894 Speaker 5: I mean, I know, looking back at the Bush women 162 00:09:13,214 --> 00:09:15,814 Speaker 5: like Laura and Barbara Bush were both poor choice, but 163 00:09:16,454 --> 00:09:19,094 Speaker 5: they would never come out and say it publicly when 164 00:09:19,094 --> 00:09:22,694 Speaker 5: their husbands were in office or campaigning. So it's a 165 00:09:22,734 --> 00:09:25,174 Speaker 5: really interesting, bold move. 166 00:09:25,774 --> 00:09:27,614 Speaker 1: Why do you think she has done it on such 167 00:09:27,614 --> 00:09:30,334 Speaker 1: a public platform as well as in writing, as well 168 00:09:30,374 --> 00:09:32,894 Speaker 1: as used in the trailer to launch her memoir. 169 00:09:33,294 --> 00:09:35,134 Speaker 5: I think it's going to sell a lot of books. 170 00:09:35,254 --> 00:09:38,534 Speaker 5: I think she's very you know. A cynical look at 171 00:09:38,574 --> 00:09:41,414 Speaker 5: it would be that maybe she's doing it so that 172 00:09:41,614 --> 00:09:46,454 Speaker 5: she can, you know, help his campaign a little bit, 173 00:09:47,014 --> 00:09:50,654 Speaker 5: because if she's you know, able to kind of persuade 174 00:09:50,774 --> 00:09:54,934 Speaker 5: his voters, there are voters in swing states, there are 175 00:09:54,974 --> 00:09:57,534 Speaker 5: people on the fence, and maybe they will see this 176 00:09:58,054 --> 00:10:02,334 Speaker 5: and think, oh, perhaps she can change her husband's view 177 00:10:02,414 --> 00:10:06,734 Speaker 5: on abortion rights, or maybe he's softened his opinion. It 178 00:10:06,814 --> 00:10:10,214 Speaker 5: kind of muddles the issue and confuses it. But a 179 00:10:10,294 --> 00:10:12,254 Speaker 5: less cynical view would be that this is what she 180 00:10:12,334 --> 00:10:15,574 Speaker 5: really believes, and she was fed up and wanted to 181 00:10:15,654 --> 00:10:16,534 Speaker 5: let the world know. 182 00:10:17,254 --> 00:10:19,134 Speaker 1: Do you think that this is her attempt to alter 183 00:10:19,294 --> 00:10:21,894 Speaker 1: her legacy in any way as a first lady before 184 00:10:21,934 --> 00:10:24,334 Speaker 1: the election is called next month and she either becomes 185 00:10:24,334 --> 00:10:27,614 Speaker 1: a first lady again or it's just redone her whole 186 00:10:27,814 --> 00:10:30,374 Speaker 1: legacy from the previous time. She was first Lady. 187 00:10:31,134 --> 00:10:34,534 Speaker 5: I think aside from her position on abortion, there's not 188 00:10:34,774 --> 00:10:37,854 Speaker 5: much else in that book that's shocking. I don't think 189 00:10:37,934 --> 00:10:42,334 Speaker 5: it forever alters her position as a reluctant, you know, campaigner, 190 00:10:43,014 --> 00:10:46,854 Speaker 5: a reluctant first lady. She didn't move to Washington immediately. 191 00:10:46,934 --> 00:10:50,294 Speaker 5: I doubt she would move to Washington even right away 192 00:10:50,494 --> 00:10:55,334 Speaker 5: or at all if he's elected. She wasn't very happy here, 193 00:10:55,734 --> 00:10:57,494 Speaker 5: you know. I don't think it's going to alter the 194 00:10:57,494 --> 00:11:01,814 Speaker 5: way that she's viewed one hundred years from now. I 195 00:11:01,854 --> 00:11:04,534 Speaker 5: think it adds almost to the confusion about who she 196 00:11:04,894 --> 00:11:07,894 Speaker 5: really is and what she really believes. 197 00:11:09,814 --> 00:11:11,894 Speaker 1: To know. About the politics of this book, with its 198 00:11:11,934 --> 00:11:15,374 Speaker 1: release just one month before the election, journalist Emelia Lester 199 00:11:15,574 --> 00:11:18,574 Speaker 1: is the deputy editor of Foreign Policy Magazine, and she's 200 00:11:18,614 --> 00:11:21,534 Speaker 1: going to help us understand the political ramifications of its 201 00:11:21,534 --> 00:11:25,414 Speaker 1: timely release. Amelia, you have read the book. Can you 202 00:11:25,454 --> 00:11:27,614 Speaker 1: tell me why you think there are so many mentions 203 00:11:27,614 --> 00:11:29,174 Speaker 1: and nods to Michelle Obama. 204 00:11:30,134 --> 00:11:33,974 Speaker 2: It's interesting because on first reference to the former First Lady, 205 00:11:34,414 --> 00:11:38,014 Speaker 2: Milania just refers to her as Michelle. There's no mention 206 00:11:38,094 --> 00:11:40,614 Speaker 2: of her last name for another two hundred pages, and 207 00:11:40,654 --> 00:11:43,174 Speaker 2: that first mention comes up because you might remember that 208 00:11:43,214 --> 00:11:46,894 Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen at the Republican National Convention, when Milania 209 00:11:47,054 --> 00:11:49,334 Speaker 2: Trump was kind of introducing herself and her husband to 210 00:11:49,414 --> 00:11:52,254 Speaker 2: the nation, her speech was found to be plagiarized from 211 00:11:52,254 --> 00:11:55,694 Speaker 2: a speech that Michelle Obama had given previously. At the time, 212 00:11:55,734 --> 00:11:57,774 Speaker 2: she didn't say much about this, but in this book 213 00:11:57,814 --> 00:12:01,574 Speaker 2: she very much throws under the bus a Trump organization 214 00:12:01,694 --> 00:12:05,094 Speaker 2: employee who she said helped her in writing the speech. 215 00:12:05,254 --> 00:12:08,494 Speaker 2: The story that she tells is that she Milania was 216 00:12:08,534 --> 00:12:11,494 Speaker 2: throwing out some aspiring quotes from Michelle Obama to give 217 00:12:11,534 --> 00:12:13,534 Speaker 2: an idea of the sort of speech that she wanted 218 00:12:13,574 --> 00:12:16,334 Speaker 2: to give, and then this Trump organization employee, who again 219 00:12:16,374 --> 00:12:19,974 Speaker 2: she gives the full name of, just basically transcribed what 220 00:12:20,014 --> 00:12:23,534 Speaker 2: she was saying and therefore plagiarized. In other words, not 221 00:12:23,614 --> 00:12:26,334 Speaker 2: Milania's fault at all that she ended up giving a 222 00:12:26,334 --> 00:12:29,774 Speaker 2: speech that copied large chunks from Michelle Obama. The next 223 00:12:29,774 --> 00:12:32,814 Speaker 2: time Michell Obama comes up is really interesting and I 224 00:12:32,894 --> 00:12:36,694 Speaker 2: actually gassed when I read it. She is talking about 225 00:12:36,814 --> 00:12:40,374 Speaker 2: after Donald Trump wins the election in twenty sixteen. There 226 00:12:40,414 --> 00:12:44,414 Speaker 2: was a controversy because it's traditional for the new first 227 00:12:44,414 --> 00:12:47,054 Speaker 2: family to move into the White House on Inauguration Day, 228 00:12:47,334 --> 00:12:51,574 Speaker 2: which would have been January twenty seventeen. But Milania rather 229 00:12:51,654 --> 00:12:54,134 Speaker 2: infamously took a full six months to move down from 230 00:12:54,134 --> 00:12:56,534 Speaker 2: New York City to Washington, DC. And at the time 231 00:12:56,574 --> 00:12:59,054 Speaker 2: people didn't really understand why. It was seen maybe as 232 00:12:59,054 --> 00:13:02,214 Speaker 2: an act of political resistance, maybe they wanted to finish 233 00:13:02,294 --> 00:13:05,094 Speaker 2: up their son, Barn's school year in New York. It 234 00:13:05,174 --> 00:13:08,374 Speaker 2: was neither of these things. According to Milania. It's because 235 00:13:08,854 --> 00:13:13,774 Speaker 2: the Obama did not do their necessary homework and facilitate 236 00:13:14,014 --> 00:13:17,334 Speaker 2: the transferral of the occupancy of the White House. They 237 00:13:17,454 --> 00:13:20,494 Speaker 2: apparently gave them some information that was filled with errors, 238 00:13:20,854 --> 00:13:24,614 Speaker 2: and this delayed Milania's necessary renovation of the White House 239 00:13:24,614 --> 00:13:27,934 Speaker 2: by a number of months. So that was the Obama's fault. 240 00:13:28,214 --> 00:13:30,694 Speaker 1: Given the only PR we sort of know about in 241 00:13:30,734 --> 00:13:34,134 Speaker 1: the book's release is the fee that was requested of CNN. 242 00:13:34,334 --> 00:13:37,934 Speaker 1: Is the potential PR campaign actually just for Milania herself 243 00:13:38,134 --> 00:13:40,974 Speaker 1: to rewrite some of this history and to make her 244 00:13:41,374 --> 00:13:45,214 Speaker 1: seem like a more likable person by clearing up this speech. 245 00:13:46,294 --> 00:13:48,654 Speaker 2: The reason, she states is that she's a figure in 246 00:13:48,694 --> 00:13:51,054 Speaker 2: the public eye and that there have been a number 247 00:13:51,054 --> 00:13:54,134 Speaker 2: of misrepresentations in the media about why she acted the 248 00:13:54,134 --> 00:13:56,894 Speaker 2: way she did at various points, then, so she wants 249 00:13:56,934 --> 00:13:59,454 Speaker 2: to set the record straight. I think it's very much 250 00:13:59,494 --> 00:14:02,614 Speaker 2: it's less a sort of pr exercise for her to 251 00:14:02,654 --> 00:14:06,374 Speaker 2: appear likable, because at various points in the books she 252 00:14:06,854 --> 00:14:10,054 Speaker 2: definitely doesn't come off that way, and it's more about 253 00:14:10,214 --> 00:14:13,614 Speaker 2: putting her side of the story out there, whereas she's 254 00:14:13,654 --> 00:14:16,534 Speaker 2: been kind of sphinx like to this point and we've 255 00:14:16,534 --> 00:14:18,294 Speaker 2: had to speculate about her intentions. 256 00:14:18,654 --> 00:14:20,734 Speaker 1: How many Trump supporters do you think are actually there 257 00:14:20,734 --> 00:14:22,214 Speaker 1: for millennia. 258 00:14:22,374 --> 00:14:25,454 Speaker 2: I don't know if there's that many Trump supporters who 259 00:14:25,494 --> 00:14:29,614 Speaker 2: are there for Millennia. I think she's made herself a 260 00:14:29,734 --> 00:14:32,814 Speaker 2: very mysterious figure. I think it's hard for people to 261 00:14:33,134 --> 00:14:35,574 Speaker 2: latch on to her or to sort of identify with 262 00:14:35,654 --> 00:14:38,894 Speaker 2: her in the way that so many people clearly identify 263 00:14:38,934 --> 00:14:41,774 Speaker 2: with Donald Trump, and that reluctance to appear in the 264 00:14:41,774 --> 00:14:46,814 Speaker 2: public eye has traditionally been construed as a desire to 265 00:14:46,894 --> 00:14:50,254 Speaker 2: distance herself from her controversial husband. I can tell you, 266 00:14:50,294 --> 00:14:52,494 Speaker 2: having read this book, that it has nothing to do 267 00:14:52,614 --> 00:14:54,974 Speaker 2: with that. At various points in the book, she actually 268 00:14:55,454 --> 00:14:59,094 Speaker 2: makes very clear that she stands by everything he's done, 269 00:14:59,254 --> 00:15:02,054 Speaker 2: and when she doesn't stand by something he's done, she 270 00:15:02,094 --> 00:15:04,534 Speaker 2: simply doesn't mention it, or she simply sort of waves 271 00:15:04,574 --> 00:15:07,254 Speaker 2: it away. So one example of that is her pro 272 00:15:07,334 --> 00:15:10,854 Speaker 2: choice position on abortion has been a the headlines. There's 273 00:15:10,934 --> 00:15:14,654 Speaker 2: no attempt in the book to square that position with 274 00:15:14,774 --> 00:15:17,894 Speaker 2: her husband putting the conservative judges on the Supreme Court, 275 00:15:17,894 --> 00:15:20,574 Speaker 2: who then overturn Roe v. Way. There's no attempt to 276 00:15:20,694 --> 00:15:24,054 Speaker 2: square that or to explain that to readers. She simply says, 277 00:15:24,374 --> 00:15:26,894 Speaker 2: I am pro choice, and then she moves on to 278 00:15:26,974 --> 00:15:28,254 Speaker 2: her next chapter. 279 00:15:28,974 --> 00:15:30,654 Speaker 1: One of the things that really comes out in the 280 00:15:30,654 --> 00:15:34,894 Speaker 1: book is how lonely she appears. Whether that's intentional or not, 281 00:15:34,934 --> 00:15:37,934 Speaker 1: there is kind of this undertone of sadness or as 282 00:15:38,094 --> 00:15:40,174 Speaker 1: you've said in a review that you've written for The Science, 283 00:15:40,214 --> 00:15:43,214 Speaker 1: that there's no mention of her friends, and she does 284 00:15:43,254 --> 00:15:45,894 Speaker 1: talk about being wronged a lot and misunderstood. What do 285 00:15:45,974 --> 00:15:46,574 Speaker 1: you take from that? 286 00:15:47,214 --> 00:15:50,294 Speaker 2: Yeah, that really struck me. That she's close to her sister, 287 00:15:50,454 --> 00:15:53,494 Speaker 2: and she talks very movingly about her mother and father 288 00:15:53,774 --> 00:15:57,054 Speaker 2: and her very happy childhood and Slovenia. But we don't 289 00:15:57,054 --> 00:16:00,294 Speaker 2: hear about a single friend. We don't hear about her 290 00:16:00,334 --> 00:16:04,254 Speaker 2: ever finding anything funny or amusing. She doesn't even seem 291 00:16:04,254 --> 00:16:06,334 Speaker 2: to spend that much time with Donald Trump. I don't 292 00:16:06,334 --> 00:16:08,574 Speaker 2: get a sense that they spend any time together, or 293 00:16:08,614 --> 00:16:11,694 Speaker 2: that they have in depth conversations in any way. She 294 00:16:11,774 --> 00:16:13,934 Speaker 2: looks back on her time in the White House with 295 00:16:13,974 --> 00:16:16,854 Speaker 2: this sort of passive remove. She says that it was 296 00:16:16,934 --> 00:16:21,014 Speaker 2: very transformative and that she forged bonds with many, but 297 00:16:21,094 --> 00:16:24,214 Speaker 2: she never really explains to us what were some of 298 00:16:24,214 --> 00:16:27,334 Speaker 2: those meaningful relationships that she formed while in office. 299 00:16:28,294 --> 00:16:30,854 Speaker 1: The timing of this release, we're within a month now 300 00:16:31,094 --> 00:16:33,534 Speaker 1: of the election. Is there any way that this book 301 00:16:33,574 --> 00:16:35,934 Speaker 1: could sway a campaign? I know we always say that 302 00:16:35,974 --> 00:16:37,934 Speaker 1: it's just we have no idea what's going to happen. 303 00:16:38,054 --> 00:16:40,694 Speaker 1: But is it putting a positive light over the Trump 304 00:16:40,734 --> 00:16:41,734 Speaker 1: administration at all? 305 00:16:42,734 --> 00:16:45,654 Speaker 2: No, and I don't think that was its intention. There's 306 00:16:45,694 --> 00:16:48,374 Speaker 2: no sense that the book is kind of campaign release 307 00:16:48,454 --> 00:16:50,894 Speaker 2: that you might expect from a politician's wife a month 308 00:16:50,974 --> 00:16:54,254 Speaker 2: up from an election. There's no real attempt to rehabilitate 309 00:16:54,294 --> 00:16:57,294 Speaker 2: Donald Trump in the public eye. Every time she compliments him, 310 00:16:57,334 --> 00:17:03,214 Speaker 2: it's very much as a kind and considerate husband to her. 311 00:17:03,494 --> 00:17:07,414 Speaker 2: It's never presenting him as an amazing president or a 312 00:17:07,494 --> 00:17:11,094 Speaker 2: dignified orator. It's always look I like him because he's 313 00:17:11,214 --> 00:17:13,334 Speaker 2: nice to me, and she's not going to go further 314 00:17:13,414 --> 00:17:13,654 Speaker 2: than that. 315 00:17:14,294 --> 00:17:16,054 Speaker 1: As someone who has read the book, and as we've said, 316 00:17:16,134 --> 00:17:18,054 Speaker 1: you have written a review for it on the Mama 317 00:17:18,094 --> 00:17:20,574 Speaker 1: Maya website which we'll put into the show notes, what 318 00:17:20,694 --> 00:17:23,094 Speaker 1: stands out the most for you in the book? 319 00:17:23,934 --> 00:17:28,414 Speaker 2: I think it's that she is capable of compartmentalization in 320 00:17:28,454 --> 00:17:31,454 Speaker 2: a way that I've never really seen in anyone before. 321 00:17:31,574 --> 00:17:34,054 Speaker 2: I started this book with so many questions as to 322 00:17:34,134 --> 00:17:37,534 Speaker 2: how she made this marriage work to someone who is 323 00:17:37,574 --> 00:17:41,294 Speaker 2: so controversial and in many ways so must be so 324 00:17:41,374 --> 00:17:43,574 Speaker 2: difficult to be married to. That's not a political statement 325 00:17:43,654 --> 00:17:46,814 Speaker 2: so much as an observation that she's lived through some 326 00:17:46,894 --> 00:17:50,494 Speaker 2: really tumultuous and traumatic episodes of American history. But you 327 00:17:50,574 --> 00:17:53,334 Speaker 2: come away not really knowing how she dealt with any 328 00:17:53,374 --> 00:17:57,214 Speaker 2: of that, because she has this extraordinary ability to say, 329 00:17:57,694 --> 00:18:00,534 Speaker 2: this is my own life, and this is everyone else's life, 330 00:18:00,534 --> 00:18:02,454 Speaker 2: and by the way, I include her husband and that 331 00:18:02,534 --> 00:18:04,974 Speaker 2: everyone else. It's not as though she's thinking about what 332 00:18:05,054 --> 00:18:07,414 Speaker 2: life's like for her husband at all. It's very much 333 00:18:08,094 --> 00:18:10,814 Speaker 2: I start my days with a strong espresso and some fruit, 334 00:18:10,974 --> 00:18:13,654 Speaker 2: because that is how she starts her days. She often 335 00:18:13,734 --> 00:18:16,534 Speaker 2: ends her days by wearing a very fancy kutuer gown. 336 00:18:17,134 --> 00:18:20,974 Speaker 2: And that's about as far as the Millennia Trump universe extends. 337 00:18:21,014 --> 00:18:23,854 Speaker 2: I should mention also she does talk frequently about her 338 00:18:23,854 --> 00:18:26,494 Speaker 2: deep love for her son with Donald Trump, Baron Trump, 339 00:18:26,974 --> 00:18:28,934 Speaker 2: although again we don't really get much of a sense 340 00:18:28,934 --> 00:18:31,294 Speaker 2: of what he is like or what they do together. 341 00:18:31,374 --> 00:18:36,174 Speaker 2: But beyond her mothering of Baron, we don't get a 342 00:18:36,174 --> 00:18:38,134 Speaker 2: sense that she's thinking about other people very much. 343 00:18:39,694 --> 00:18:41,694 Speaker 1: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with 344 00:18:41,774 --> 00:18:44,854 Speaker 1: us today. If you'd like to read Kate Anderson Brower's 345 00:18:44,894 --> 00:18:47,214 Speaker 1: new book, The Hill, Inside the Secret World of the 346 00:18:47,334 --> 00:18:49,974 Speaker 1: US Capital, we've popped a link in the show notes. 347 00:18:50,334 --> 00:18:52,414 Speaker 1: This episode of The Quickie was produced by me Grace 348 00:18:52,454 --> 00:18:55,454 Speaker 1: Rubray and our senior producer Taylor Strano, with audio production 349 00:18:55,614 --> 00:18:56,414 Speaker 1: by Jacob Brown.