WEBVTT - In All Honesty 

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to a Mamma Mia podcast. Mamma Mia acknowledges

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<v Speaker 1>the traditional owners of the land and waters this podcast

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<v Speaker 1>is recorded on. We spend a lot of time talking

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<v Speaker 1>and thinking about romantic relationships, searching for and finding that

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<v Speaker 1>one person who'll enrich your life, who'll choose you and

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<v Speaker 1>only you, even change your last name. But what about friendships?

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<v Speaker 1>Those deep, unbreakable bonds. The ones who make your life

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<v Speaker 1>better without the strings attached. Those soulmate-level best friends. They're

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<v Speaker 1>the person you call with good news. The one you

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<v Speaker 1>laugh and cry with. The one you run to when

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<v Speaker 1>your heart is broken. They know your secrets, your history,

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<v Speaker 1>your dreams, every side and every version of you. You

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<v Speaker 1>just couldn't imagine life without them. But you don't have to,

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<v Speaker 1>because you know through all of life's ups and downs,

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<v Speaker 1>the good times and the bad, they'll always be there.

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<v Speaker 1>Won't they? I'm Georgia Love and this is Everyone Has

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<v Speaker 1>an Ex-Best Friend. Come with me as we dive into

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<v Speaker 1>a collection of stories about friendships past, through the eyes

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<v Speaker 1>and the hearts of the very people who lived them.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a very specific kind of friendship that really only

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<v Speaker 1>happens once, the one you fall into at 16, when

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<v Speaker 1>you think you know who you are but haven't quite

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<v Speaker 1>figured it out exactly. And for Chloe, that friendship had

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<v Speaker 1>a soundtrack.

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<v Speaker 2>So we met in high school. We were in the

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<v Speaker 2>same kind of mutual group. We became instant best friends.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the first times we started talking and hanging

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<v Speaker 2>out a lot more kind of outside of school is

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<v Speaker 2>we both were going to a certain concert. We both

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<v Speaker 2>really liked this band and we both were going to

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<v Speaker 2>this band and found out that each other were there.

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<v Speaker 2>We bumped into each other there. Like I was with

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<v Speaker 2>my sister, she was with her sister. And after that,

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<v Speaker 2>we both got like T-shirts of the band and then

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<v Speaker 2>we both wore it and got to kind of connect

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<v Speaker 2>in that way and then became closer and closer. We

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<v Speaker 2>got a fair few more classes together and so we

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<v Speaker 2>started hanging out a lot more. We had music together

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<v Speaker 2>and then we started doing like some guitar and stuff

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<v Speaker 2>in those classes and we also, we weren't very good

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<v Speaker 2>and would always kind of distract each other and distract

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<v Speaker 2>people around us. We had maths class together and we

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<v Speaker 2>used to just call each other friction buddies because we

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<v Speaker 2>didn't like fractions and all this different stuff. So we

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<v Speaker 2>would be absolute ridiculous, silly people together and would make

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<v Speaker 2>really dumb jokes, doing stupid things and we wouldn't really

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<v Speaker 2>care how we looked to anyone. We just always were

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<v Speaker 2>having a lot of fun and being silly. She had

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<v Speaker 2>her license before I did and she had a really

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<v Speaker 2>nice car and we would drive around and we would

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<v Speaker 2>do weird dances in the car, you know, normal teenage stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>She was probably one of the silliest, funniest people that

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<v Speaker 2>I knew. She really let me kind of let my

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<v Speaker 2>guard down completely and really had like an effortless kind

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<v Speaker 2>of way of connecting. Like we would just be absolute goofballs.

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<v Speaker 1>Fraction buddies, car dancing, matching band tees, their friendship was indestructible.

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<v Speaker 1>So who was Jess? Ask Chloe back then and she'd

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<v Speaker 1>have told you fiercely loyal, the kind of friend who'd

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<v Speaker 1>tell you the truth to your face rather than talk

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<v Speaker 1>about you behind your back.

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<v Speaker 2>She was someone that is quite loyal and protective of

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<v Speaker 2>her friends. So she wouldn't be afraid to kind of

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<v Speaker 2>confront you and, you know, really be that honest kind

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<v Speaker 2>of person, which I definitely appreciated because she wouldn't be

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<v Speaker 2>talking about you behind your back or anything to other people.

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<v Speaker 2>She'd just be like straight up in your face and

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<v Speaker 2>telling you. And that was obviously something that I really

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<v Speaker 2>valued as well. She was very kind and caring. She

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<v Speaker 2>really would take notice in detail of a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>different things. You know, if someone was struggling or, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I was struggling with something or wasn't happy about something,

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<v Speaker 2>she would really support you and really try and be

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<v Speaker 2>there for you no matter what. And yeah, look after

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<v Speaker 2>all her friends. She was very fiercely loyal and she

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<v Speaker 2>was a fierce good friend. She was very proud of

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that she cared about her friends. She made

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of time and effort for them as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Jess was always the person that was organizing, reaching out

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<v Speaker 2>to everyone, checking in if people were having a hard time,

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<v Speaker 2>making sure that we bought something for someone's birthday, organizing

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<v Speaker 2>accommodation for a group holiday. She was always that person

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<v Speaker 2>putting in a lot of effort and making sure that

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<v Speaker 2>everyone was getting together. She was a list person. She

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<v Speaker 2>was like very detail orientated. And I think that sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>she would get annoyed at me because I wasn't the

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<v Speaker 2>best at organising or planning ahead of time. I just

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<v Speaker 2>kind of lived in the moment a little bit more,

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<v Speaker 2>whereas she was, you know, much more like wanting to

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<v Speaker 2>plan things ahead of time. Like she would be asking

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<v Speaker 2>me questions about what I'm doing on a certain time

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<v Speaker 2>or a certain date so far in advance. I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>I have no idea. I'm not even thinking about that yet.

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<v Speaker 2>Like my brain's not there. And whereas she would just

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<v Speaker 2>be like trying to plan ahead.

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<v Speaker 1>But not everyone was sold on Jess.

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<v Speaker 2>My sister was quite nerdy and I was more in

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<v Speaker 2>the popular group. And she just felt like that sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>Jess was kind of attacking her a little bit. She

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<v Speaker 2>would defend it by going, I'm just being honest, even

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<v Speaker 2>if you kind of did get upset. She's like, I

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<v Speaker 2>would want you to tell me. I would forgive a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of those things because I knew that she was

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<v Speaker 2>as hard on herself as she was being on everyone

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<v Speaker 2>around her. And it wasn't necessarily, didn't seem like she

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<v Speaker 2>was trying to do it to people, just bring them down.

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<v Speaker 2>But she would notice the negative things in life. She

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<v Speaker 2>would always be pointing those out. Whereas I'm someone that

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<v Speaker 2>really looks on the positive side of life. She often

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't take that feedback though, when you would tell her

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<v Speaker 2>and bring things up with her. She would overthink things.

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<v Speaker 2>She'd really like overanalyze different situations and really kind of

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<v Speaker 2>dig into things. And she definitely admitted that she wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>always happy. She did kind of admit that she was

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<v Speaker 2>probably a bit depressed and anxious. And she did seek

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<v Speaker 2>out help for that as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Jess was sweet, protective, endlessly organised. But she was also 17,

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<v Speaker 1>working out who she was, same as anyone that age.

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<v Speaker 1>And nothing tests a teenage friendship quite like a run

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<v Speaker 1>of milestone 18ths.

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<v Speaker 2>She turned 18 before me and I was very excited.

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<v Speaker 2>I dropped her out for her first night. I just

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<v Speaker 2>got my license. Dropped her out for her first night

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<v Speaker 2>out on the town and then, you know, helped her

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<v Speaker 2>pick her dress. We celebrated her 18th. We had a

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<v Speaker 2>massive party. I did a big speech for her and everything.

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<v Speaker 2>So then coming to my 18, it was my first

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<v Speaker 2>night going out on the town and we were out.

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<v Speaker 2>We had a great night. I went out at midnight

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<v Speaker 2>because it was Thursday night and you got shots for

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<v Speaker 2>$ 2 back then. So we went out at midnight as

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<v Speaker 2>soon as I turned 18 and we had a really

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<v Speaker 2>fun night. We were dancing the night away. And then

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<v Speaker 2>about 3 a.m. we were sitting out the back of

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<v Speaker 2>the pub and she just kind of started telling me

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<v Speaker 2>things that she didn't like about me and how I

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<v Speaker 2>could improve and be better. She brought up the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that I didn't make the best career choices at school,

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<v Speaker 2>that I don't reply to things that I wasn't happy about.

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<v Speaker 2>you know, my weight, but wasn't doing anything about it.

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<v Speaker 2>I wasn't going to the gym with her, that I

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't looking after myself. She was really just tearing down

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<v Speaker 2>pretty much anything she could. could see how I could

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<v Speaker 2>be doing so much better and that now I'm 18,

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<v Speaker 2>I should really try and do better and be better.

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<v Speaker 2>I was visibly crying, visibly upset, like absolutely devastated from

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<v Speaker 2>what she was saying. And she just kept going and

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<v Speaker 2>going and other people were there as well. So they

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<v Speaker 2>saw it happen. And I ended up leaving and going

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<v Speaker 2>home after that because there's no way I could go

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<v Speaker 2>back out dancing and having fun when she was being

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<v Speaker 2>quite awful. And then the next day, I guess she

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<v Speaker 2>messaged me and she did apologize. And I didn't reply

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<v Speaker 2>straight away. But I do remember then I kind of

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<v Speaker 2>ended up just sweeping it on the rug and kind

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<v Speaker 2>of letting it go.

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<v Speaker 1>Swept under the rug. It's a phrase you're going to

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<v Speaker 1>want to remember because it's about to become something of

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<v Speaker 1>a theme as a birthday.

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<v Speaker 2>So the next year, I also started dating someone that

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<v Speaker 2>she didn't like that much so she would often tell

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<v Speaker 2>me that he was not a good match for me

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<v Speaker 2>during the next year though we still we had a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of fun times you know we went to our

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<v Speaker 2>first festival together you know we had a great group

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<v Speaker 2>of friends we went to a fair few house parties

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<v Speaker 2>these guys that lived down the road from me and

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<v Speaker 2>we had a lot of fun and then on my

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<v Speaker 2>19th birthday oh I was living with my partner at

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<v Speaker 2>that time that she didn't really like and a few

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<v Speaker 2>of his friends were there She couldn't find her phone.

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<v Speaker 2>So she straight away was accusing his friends of stealing

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<v Speaker 2>her phone. And she was like, tell me where they live.

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<v Speaker 2>And I said, she's like, tell me their addresses now.

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<v Speaker 2>And I said, I don't actually have their direct addresses.

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<v Speaker 2>I can tell you where they live because who knows

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<v Speaker 2>someone's actual address. You know, I can tell you go

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<v Speaker 2>straight down the street, left down the street and you'll

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<v Speaker 2>find it. But I was like, I don't know the

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<v Speaker 2>actual house number or the street. And she called me out,

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<v Speaker 2>said that I was lying and trying to protect my

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<v Speaker 2>partner and his friends. And then I didn't care about her.

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<v Speaker 2>And she just absolutely flipped it in front of a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people at her house. She's like, you're dating

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<v Speaker 2>a guy that, you know, he's got these loser friends

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<v Speaker 2>and they've stolen my phone and you just keep making

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<v Speaker 2>bad choices for yourself. So I worked in hairdressing and

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't really enjoying it. I was getting really sore wrists.

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<v Speaker 2>So I wasn't able to do it as much anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>And she was telling me once again that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I wasn't doing a good career move, that I really

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<v Speaker 2>should stick with it. or I should get an office job.

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<v Speaker 2>So she once again was telling me everything that she

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<v Speaker 2>didn't like about me. I ended up yelling at her

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<v Speaker 2>to leave. I just was like, I'm not doing this again.

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<v Speaker 2>Get out. And I kind of stood up for myself

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<v Speaker 2>quite a bit then and said, just get out and leave.

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<v Speaker 2>That night, I still went out and didn't let it

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<v Speaker 2>affect me as much. After yelling at her to just

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<v Speaker 2>get out, I had some really good friends around me

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<v Speaker 2>that were all really supportive and were like, don't worry

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<v Speaker 2>about her. Like, let's go out and have a really

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<v Speaker 2>good time. And we did, which was really nice. Then

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<v Speaker 2>when we got home, I found her phone under the couch.

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<v Speaker 2>So I just dropped it in her letterbox and let

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<v Speaker 2>her sister know that it was there for her so

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<v Speaker 2>that it was never stolen. After that night, I realized

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<v Speaker 2>that I didn't want to be as close with her

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<v Speaker 2>anymore and that I had some really good people around me.

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<v Speaker 2>And I had really good friends that said that I

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't this awful person that she made me out to be.

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<v Speaker 2>So we didn't speak for a couple of years. We'd

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<v Speaker 2>see each other here and there at different things, but

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<v Speaker 2>we weren't close anymore and we wouldn't speak and she

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<v Speaker 2>actually moved to Melbourne. And about a year after she

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<v Speaker 2>moved to Melbourne, I ended up in Melbourne as well.

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<v Speaker 2>And we did bump into each other a few times out.

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<v Speaker 2>And she was really lovely and saying she just really

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<v Speaker 2>misses me as a friend. She was really apologetic. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think that that time from us not being friends

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<v Speaker 2>for a couple of years, she really did miss that.

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<v Speaker 2>And she made a lot of effort and was really

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<v Speaker 2>kind to me. I didn't straight away let her fully

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<v Speaker 2>back into my life. It did take me a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of time. We ended up kind of reconnecting and went

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<v Speaker 2>to a few concerts together and a festival and And

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<v Speaker 2>we ended up becoming quite close again. And then her

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<v Speaker 2>and her boyfriend broke up and I had already moved

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<v Speaker 2>back home to Newcastle and she ended up moving back

0:11:43.828 --> 0:11:45.848
<v Speaker 2>to Newcastle as well. And we were pretty much from

0:11:45.888 --> 0:11:49.138
<v Speaker 2>then back to being best friends and spending all our

0:11:49.158 --> 0:11:52.688
<v Speaker 2>time together. We were both single. So we were both

0:11:52.728 --> 0:11:55.768
<v Speaker 2>like really in our single girl era and having a

0:11:55.788 --> 0:11:58.548
<v Speaker 2>lot of fun. And it was a really fun time.

0:11:58.768 --> 0:12:01.668
<v Speaker 2>But I feel like we probably reconnected once she became

0:12:01.708 --> 0:12:03.578
<v Speaker 2>single again as well. And she was making a lot

0:12:03.598 --> 0:12:06.778
<v Speaker 2>of effort, being really kind, you know, doing really lovely

0:12:06.818 --> 0:12:10.128
<v Speaker 2>things for me. So that was really nice. We had

0:12:10.168 --> 0:12:11.987
<v Speaker 2>a lot of mutual friends from high school. Obviously, we

0:12:12.028 --> 0:12:14.528
<v Speaker 2>kind of had grown up and made other friends as well.

0:12:14.948 --> 0:12:17.737
<v Speaker 2>We did have one little core group that they completely

0:12:17.778 --> 0:12:20.598
<v Speaker 2>understood where I came from and what happened. They were

0:12:20.638 --> 0:12:22.738
<v Speaker 2>still friends with her. I had no problem with that

0:12:23.138 --> 0:12:25.698
<v Speaker 2>when we weren't friends. Obviously, they were really happy when

0:12:25.738 --> 0:12:28.598
<v Speaker 2>we did become close again because then we were able

0:12:28.618 --> 0:12:30.978
<v Speaker 2>to all hang out together. But I think a lot

0:12:31.018 --> 0:12:33.888
<v Speaker 2>of people did keep a bit of a safe distance

0:12:33.938 --> 0:12:36.928
<v Speaker 2>from her because they knew how she could be if

0:12:37.108 --> 0:12:38.068
<v Speaker 2>you were too close to her.

0:12:38.628 --> 0:12:40.628
<v Speaker 1>But there were still some of the old habits that

0:12:40.708 --> 0:12:41.348
<v Speaker 1>never went away.

0:12:41.948 --> 0:12:44.288
<v Speaker 2>One of the main things is she'd always say that

0:12:44.348 --> 0:12:47.098
<v Speaker 2>I was leaving her out. So I had made other

0:12:47.138 --> 0:12:49.958
<v Speaker 2>friends and had a big friendship circle and she would

0:12:49.978 --> 0:12:53.398
<v Speaker 2>often get quite upset or annoyed if she wasn't invited

0:12:53.458 --> 0:12:56.818
<v Speaker 2>or included in everything I was doing, which was really hard.

0:12:56.878 --> 0:12:59.117
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I would invite her to a lot of

0:12:59.178 --> 0:13:04.528
<v Speaker 2>things and definitely... I really made her be in part

0:13:04.548 --> 0:13:06.748
<v Speaker 2>of my other friendship groups that I kind of had

0:13:06.808 --> 0:13:10.748
<v Speaker 2>made during that time we weren't friends. And she would

0:13:10.848 --> 0:13:13.698
<v Speaker 2>often say that when we were even in those friendship groups.

0:13:13.778 --> 0:13:18.198
<v Speaker 2>And so I invited her to a birthday dinner with everyone.

0:13:18.878 --> 0:13:21.458
<v Speaker 2>And she came and then after the next day, she'd

0:13:21.498 --> 0:13:24.988
<v Speaker 2>send me a message saying that I didn't include her

0:13:25.008 --> 0:13:28.198
<v Speaker 2>in any conversations I just turned my back to her

0:13:28.418 --> 0:13:31.218
<v Speaker 2>I was trying to leave her out and for me

0:13:31.278 --> 0:13:33.458
<v Speaker 2>I was like that's not my intention or I'm so

0:13:33.508 --> 0:13:35.068
<v Speaker 2>sorry if I've done that or made you feel that

0:13:35.088 --> 0:13:37.748
<v Speaker 2>way So the next time we were at a group

0:13:37.768 --> 0:13:40.068
<v Speaker 2>thing all together with this same group, I noticed that

0:13:40.108 --> 0:13:42.928
<v Speaker 2>she was on her phone in the corner. And so

0:13:43.248 --> 0:13:45.848
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I need to make an effort to

0:13:45.888 --> 0:13:48.578
<v Speaker 2>bring her into the conversation and make more of an effort.

0:13:48.598 --> 0:13:50.818
<v Speaker 2>So I was like, hey, come over and like, hey, Jess,

0:13:50.878 --> 0:13:53.198
<v Speaker 2>come over and chat with us about this. Like, what

0:13:53.218 --> 0:13:54.998
<v Speaker 2>do you think of this? And she in front of

0:13:55.078 --> 0:13:57.338
<v Speaker 2>everyone kind of stood up and was like, you've just

0:13:57.358 --> 0:14:00.048
<v Speaker 2>been leaving me out and barely speaking to me all night.

0:14:00.688 --> 0:14:03.948
<v Speaker 2>stormed out in front of everyone. And that was super

0:14:03.988 --> 0:14:07.748
<v Speaker 2>embarrassing for me because all my friends, that group of girls,

0:14:07.788 --> 0:14:10.288
<v Speaker 2>they were like, she's not very nice to you. There's

0:14:10.338 --> 0:14:13.438
<v Speaker 2>a reason that you don't need to babysit her. You

0:14:13.498 --> 0:14:16.358
<v Speaker 2>have invited her. You've made that effort. You don't need

0:14:16.398 --> 0:14:19.658
<v Speaker 2>to then sit and make her have conversations like you're

0:14:19.678 --> 0:14:21.988
<v Speaker 2>not a babysitter. And then when you do, she gets

0:14:22.148 --> 0:14:24.698
<v Speaker 2>angry and they just were like, oh, they just This

0:14:24.758 --> 0:14:26.778
<v Speaker 2>group of girls I'm still really close with now, they're

0:14:26.818 --> 0:14:31.338
<v Speaker 2>just like, she's just absolutely ridiculous. Like, that's not your

0:14:31.378 --> 0:14:33.618
<v Speaker 2>job to do that. They just don't have any drama,

0:14:33.978 --> 0:14:36.438
<v Speaker 2>nothing like that. We all just get along so well.

0:14:36.848 --> 0:14:38.768
<v Speaker 2>So for them to kind of, they would make a

0:14:38.828 --> 0:14:41.468
<v Speaker 2>real effort with her because of the fact that they

0:14:41.528 --> 0:14:43.988
<v Speaker 2>knew for me it would kind of be hard if

0:14:44.028 --> 0:14:48.048
<v Speaker 2>they didn't, I guess. The reason that maybe I would

0:14:48.208 --> 0:14:50.478
<v Speaker 2>accept this is because it wasn't all the time. All

0:14:50.498 --> 0:14:53.198
<v Speaker 2>of these, they were in between really nice things. So

0:14:53.298 --> 0:14:56.698
<v Speaker 2>she would be spoiling me, organizing everyone to go together

0:14:56.778 --> 0:14:59.478
<v Speaker 2>on a gift for me for my birthday. But then

0:14:59.538 --> 0:15:02.358
<v Speaker 2>she would be making little comments and like really tearing

0:15:02.398 --> 0:15:04.478
<v Speaker 2>me down. And the thing is as well, she wasn't

0:15:04.558 --> 0:15:07.648
<v Speaker 2>intentionally a bad person and I knew that. She was

0:15:08.118 --> 0:15:11.138
<v Speaker 2>as hard on me as she was on herself. So

0:15:11.198 --> 0:15:13.598
<v Speaker 2>I knew that it was never intentional for her to

0:15:13.658 --> 0:15:16.918
<v Speaker 2>be trying to make me feel like a really bad person.

0:15:16.938 --> 0:15:19.588
<v Speaker 2>It's just that she was... obviously not feeling good about

0:15:19.648 --> 0:15:21.828
<v Speaker 2>herself and felt like she was being left out. That

0:15:21.868 --> 0:15:24.808
<v Speaker 2>was her perspective. She felt like that I wasn't writing

0:15:24.848 --> 0:15:26.428
<v Speaker 2>back to her. I wasn't making an effort. And it

0:15:26.468 --> 0:15:28.618
<v Speaker 2>was actually a reflection on how she felt about herself,

0:15:28.778 --> 0:15:31.238
<v Speaker 2>not me. So I think I excused a lot of

0:15:31.278 --> 0:15:33.478
<v Speaker 2>the behavior for a long time because I knew that

0:15:34.038 --> 0:15:37.058
<v Speaker 2>she wasn't that happy and with anxiety and depression, you know,

0:15:37.218 --> 0:15:38.698
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to be there for her. I wanted to

0:15:38.758 --> 0:15:41.528
<v Speaker 2>help her realize that You know, she is a fun,

0:15:41.688 --> 0:15:45.188
<v Speaker 2>great person. So it was hard because we would have

0:15:45.228 --> 0:15:46.608
<v Speaker 2>a lot of fun and she'd be a great friend.

0:15:46.628 --> 0:15:48.698
<v Speaker 2>But in the other turn, then she would be really

0:15:48.858 --> 0:15:52.518
<v Speaker 2>harsh and critical. So it's like a weird dynamic. I

0:15:52.558 --> 0:15:54.758
<v Speaker 2>knew with her anxiety and depression, she was that harsh

0:15:54.798 --> 0:15:59.198
<v Speaker 2>and critical on herself. It wasn't... How awful she was

0:15:59.258 --> 0:16:01.438
<v Speaker 2>to me. You know, she was that awful to herself

0:16:01.578 --> 0:16:03.458
<v Speaker 2>behind closed doors. And I think a lot of people

0:16:03.478 --> 0:16:08.318
<v Speaker 2>didn't see how bad kind of self-worth she had. Whereas

0:16:08.418 --> 0:16:10.528
<v Speaker 2>I did know because I was in that inner circle

0:16:10.588 --> 0:16:12.868
<v Speaker 2>and I really did know. So I knew that she

0:16:12.908 --> 0:16:16.408
<v Speaker 2>was probably 10 times meaner to herself than what she

0:16:16.428 --> 0:16:19.648
<v Speaker 2>was to me, which was really sad. I would though

0:16:19.708 --> 0:16:22.028
<v Speaker 2>bring up things for her and that she was doing

0:16:22.068 --> 0:16:24.528
<v Speaker 2>that would upset me. She would kind of get quite

0:16:24.588 --> 0:16:26.998
<v Speaker 2>upset and then really down on herself. So it became

0:16:27.028 --> 0:16:29.278
<v Speaker 2>really hard as well to say, you've done this, it's

0:16:29.338 --> 0:16:32.278
<v Speaker 2>upset me because then she'd be really awful to herself

0:16:32.378 --> 0:16:35.378
<v Speaker 2>then as well. So it also was hard. I just

0:16:35.438 --> 0:16:38.248
<v Speaker 2>tried to keep it really positive and tried to kind

0:16:38.278 --> 0:16:41.248
<v Speaker 2>of be that bright, bubbly, fun person that would hang out.

0:16:42.098 --> 0:16:43.798
<v Speaker 1>That was the shape of things for the next little

0:16:43.848 --> 0:16:48.048
<v Speaker 1>while until Jess decided to put some real distance between them. Literally,

0:16:48.468 --> 0:16:49.928
<v Speaker 1>she went to Asia for a month.

0:16:50.428 --> 0:16:54.128
<v Speaker 2>One of our mutual friends, Mia, was living there and

0:16:54.188 --> 0:16:56.828
<v Speaker 2>so they met up and did some travelling around together.

0:16:57.498 --> 0:16:59.438
<v Speaker 2>So she was spending a lot of time with Mia

0:16:59.718 --> 0:17:04.838
<v Speaker 2>in Asia and we were exchanging messages, still talking, and

0:17:04.917 --> 0:17:08.078
<v Speaker 2>she was kind of letting me know though that she

0:17:08.118 --> 0:17:10.977
<v Speaker 2>was feeling like Mia was leaving Jess out of things,

0:17:11.728 --> 0:17:14.788
<v Speaker 2>that they were going off and weren't always inviting her.

0:17:14.808 --> 0:17:16.748
<v Speaker 2>She got sick at one point and they still went

0:17:16.808 --> 0:17:19.288
<v Speaker 2>out without her. And she was kind of getting upset

0:17:19.328 --> 0:17:22.628
<v Speaker 2>about that and talking to me about messaging me saying

0:17:22.668 --> 0:17:25.088
<v Speaker 2>that she felt like that they were leaving her out.

0:17:25.208 --> 0:17:28.448
<v Speaker 2>And it really made me realize that how much she

0:17:29.208 --> 0:17:31.247
<v Speaker 2>was just doing it to whoever she was close to

0:17:31.268 --> 0:17:35.288
<v Speaker 2>that This is normally what she's saying about me, but

0:17:35.348 --> 0:17:37.728
<v Speaker 2>she's saying it to me now because I'm not there.

0:17:38.208 --> 0:17:40.488
<v Speaker 2>So it made me really feel validated in the fact

0:17:40.538 --> 0:17:44.418
<v Speaker 2>that it wasn't just me and it was also just

0:17:44.498 --> 0:17:46.538
<v Speaker 2>anyone that she's close with, they're never going to kind

0:17:46.578 --> 0:17:49.778
<v Speaker 2>of be good enough. While she was over in Asia,

0:17:49.798 --> 0:17:54.108
<v Speaker 2>I did... really realised how much of a weight had

0:17:54.188 --> 0:17:58.227
<v Speaker 2>been lifted and how much better I felt when she

0:17:58.298 --> 0:18:01.717
<v Speaker 2>wasn't constantly around telling me who I could hang out

0:18:01.758 --> 0:18:04.738
<v Speaker 2>with or making me feel pressure about not inviting her

0:18:04.778 --> 0:18:05.958
<v Speaker 2>or leaving her out of things.

0:18:06.698 --> 0:18:10.128
<v Speaker 1>Then, while Jess was still overseas, something happened that would

0:18:10.148 --> 0:18:11.528
<v Speaker 1>put everything to the test.

0:18:12.408 --> 0:18:14.447
<v Speaker 2>While she was in Asia, I found out I was

0:18:14.488 --> 0:18:18.048
<v Speaker 2>pregnant and I didn't message her about it for a

0:18:18.068 --> 0:18:20.498
<v Speaker 2>little while because I just knew that she'd kind of

0:18:20.538 --> 0:18:22.957
<v Speaker 2>have something to say about it. I did end up

0:18:23.038 --> 0:18:26.298
<v Speaker 2>messaging her about it and I had decided to have

0:18:26.318 --> 0:18:29.738
<v Speaker 2>an abortion. So the day that she got back from

0:18:29.878 --> 0:18:32.668
<v Speaker 2>Asia was the day I was going in for my appointment.

0:18:33.398 --> 0:18:35.478
<v Speaker 2>Her first words to me when she saw me after

0:18:35.518 --> 0:18:37.918
<v Speaker 2>not seeing me for months, knowing what I was going through,

0:18:38.438 --> 0:18:41.698
<v Speaker 2>was that she said that she doesn't have any sympathy

0:18:41.738 --> 0:18:44.528
<v Speaker 2>for me. I bought this on myself. I didn't want

0:18:44.568 --> 0:18:47.908
<v Speaker 2>sympathy from her. I wanted support. I think in that moment,

0:18:48.328 --> 0:18:51.308
<v Speaker 2>I almost didn't really realise or register what she said

0:18:51.528 --> 0:18:55.058
<v Speaker 2>because I was obviously in my own head about to

0:18:55.098 --> 0:18:59.698
<v Speaker 2>go into this procedure. I honestly didn't quite register with

0:18:59.758 --> 0:19:03.657
<v Speaker 2>me until later. One of my friends picked me up

0:19:03.718 --> 0:19:06.678
<v Speaker 2>from that appointment and we had such a lovely time

0:19:06.698 --> 0:19:08.638
<v Speaker 2>together afterwards. You know, she went and bought me my

0:19:08.678 --> 0:19:11.237
<v Speaker 2>favorite food and we had a really lovely time. And

0:19:12.058 --> 0:19:14.038
<v Speaker 2>it kind of made me reflect on what Jess had

0:19:14.078 --> 0:19:16.608
<v Speaker 2>said to me earlier. And I kind of repeated it.

0:19:17.018 --> 0:19:19.678
<v Speaker 2>And my friend's face was like, I can't believe she

0:19:19.718 --> 0:19:22.838
<v Speaker 2>said that to you. And that kind of helped validate

0:19:22.878 --> 0:19:25.088
<v Speaker 2>as well, made me realize how bad that was.

0:19:25.108 --> 0:19:26.788
<v Speaker 1>And it didn't stop there.

0:19:27.128 --> 0:19:29.088
<v Speaker 2>Soon after that, that's when I got a haircut and

0:19:29.128 --> 0:19:30.788
<v Speaker 2>she said that it looked awful.

0:19:31.248 --> 0:19:31.828
<v Speaker 1>Or even there.

0:19:32.588 --> 0:19:35.628
<v Speaker 2>I did find out after the abortion that I have

0:19:36.008 --> 0:19:37.947
<v Speaker 2>a rare blood type. And so I have to get

0:19:37.988 --> 0:19:40.048
<v Speaker 2>a needle if I ever decide to have a baby,

0:19:40.088 --> 0:19:42.608
<v Speaker 2>because if my baby has a different blood type to me,

0:19:42.648 --> 0:19:46.407
<v Speaker 2>it'll try and kill the baby. And I sent her

0:19:46.428 --> 0:19:50.118
<v Speaker 2>a message about this and she said, it sounds made up.

0:19:50.718 --> 0:19:52.978
<v Speaker 2>How do you know you have that? And I said,

0:19:53.478 --> 0:19:55.457
<v Speaker 2>it's definitely not made up. So I just sent her

0:19:55.498 --> 0:19:57.698
<v Speaker 2>a photo of the information sheet that I got given

0:19:57.738 --> 0:20:00.768
<v Speaker 2>at the hospital for it. And she just wrote, oh,

0:20:01.108 --> 0:20:02.948
<v Speaker 2>I guess it is real. Well, it's nothing to worry about.

0:20:03.588 --> 0:20:07.208
<v Speaker 2>And I kind of started realizing and setting apart. There's

0:20:07.248 --> 0:20:10.448
<v Speaker 2>a difference between being harsh and, you know, being honest.

0:20:10.948 --> 0:20:13.457
<v Speaker 2>And there's a big difference between that and being awful.

0:20:14.398 --> 0:20:16.978
<v Speaker 1>Chloe was still reeling from one of the hardest decisions

0:20:17.018 --> 0:20:20.008
<v Speaker 1>of her life. Jess, meanwhile, had already moved on. to

0:20:20.048 --> 0:20:21.248
<v Speaker 1>more important matters.

0:20:21.828 --> 0:20:24.687
<v Speaker 2>She started telling me that then she was trying to

0:20:24.708 --> 0:20:26.498
<v Speaker 2>plan her birthday soon after that.

0:20:26.998 --> 0:20:28.318
<v Speaker 1>Oh dear, another birthday.

0:20:28.338 --> 0:20:32.738
<v Speaker 2>Oh, she was very birthday orientated. She got really annoyed

0:20:32.838 --> 0:20:35.458
<v Speaker 2>at me and sent me a really long message about

0:20:35.518 --> 0:20:38.138
<v Speaker 2>how no one was making an effort in the group

0:20:38.158 --> 0:20:42.758
<v Speaker 2>chat to book accommodation for her birthday. And I said, look,

0:20:43.078 --> 0:20:45.828
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm going through a lot at the moment.

0:20:45.948 --> 0:20:49.708
<v Speaker 2>I'm not really in the headspace to be booking accommodation

0:20:49.828 --> 0:20:52.228
<v Speaker 2>and everything. I'm happy to come. Look, I'm sorry you

0:20:52.248 --> 0:20:54.888
<v Speaker 2>feel that way. I'll make more effort. And she just

0:20:54.948 --> 0:20:58.457
<v Speaker 2>kept on kind of going on about this. I explained

0:20:58.518 --> 0:21:02.558
<v Speaker 2>I was not going the best mentally. And she said, yes,

0:21:02.838 --> 0:21:05.978
<v Speaker 2>but you're not making an effort for my birthday. So

0:21:06.458 --> 0:21:10.138
<v Speaker 2>that was cementing the fact that I kind of wasn't

0:21:10.178 --> 0:21:13.458
<v Speaker 2>wanting to be close with her anymore because it was

0:21:13.558 --> 0:21:16.838
<v Speaker 2>really hurtful to me. We did have conversations about it

0:21:16.938 --> 0:21:18.937
<v Speaker 2>because I was kind of starting to stand up for

0:21:18.978 --> 0:21:21.858
<v Speaker 2>myself and saying, you know, I'm not leaving you out

0:21:21.898 --> 0:21:24.108
<v Speaker 2>of things. I'm allowed to have other friends. And we

0:21:24.158 --> 0:21:27.088
<v Speaker 2>had kind of decided that we were distancing ourselves from

0:21:27.388 --> 0:21:29.128
<v Speaker 2>a little bit. And then I went out with some

0:21:29.528 --> 0:21:32.457
<v Speaker 2>of my girlfriends. And one of them in particular, she

0:21:32.498 --> 0:21:35.098
<v Speaker 2>really didn't like. We bumped into each other at the

0:21:35.138 --> 0:21:37.518
<v Speaker 2>shops and said, let's go get a champagne and just

0:21:37.558 --> 0:21:40.458
<v Speaker 2>like have a catch up. And then we put something

0:21:40.538 --> 0:21:43.718
<v Speaker 2>on our story on Instagram and she straight away replied

0:21:43.738 --> 0:21:46.368
<v Speaker 2>to my story saying, wow, you didn't invite me, of course.

0:21:47.288 --> 0:21:48.918
<v Speaker 2>So the next day I messaged her and said, look,

0:21:49.388 --> 0:21:51.417
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why you needed to say that. And

0:21:51.548 --> 0:21:54.328
<v Speaker 2>she said, yeah, look, I just can't believe you wouldn't

0:21:54.368 --> 0:21:56.628
<v Speaker 2>invite me. And I said, look, I bumped into her,

0:21:56.808 --> 0:21:59.368
<v Speaker 2>number one. Number two, we were saying we were having

0:21:59.568 --> 0:22:02.358
<v Speaker 2>some space from each other and Number three, you don't

0:22:02.378 --> 0:22:05.348
<v Speaker 2>even like this girl that I was with. And she said,

0:22:05.508 --> 0:22:07.088
<v Speaker 2>I know I don't like her, but I still would

0:22:07.128 --> 0:22:11.098
<v Speaker 2>have appreciated an invite. And from there, then she said,

0:22:11.378 --> 0:22:12.677
<v Speaker 2>I don't even think I want to go away for

0:22:12.698 --> 0:22:15.098
<v Speaker 2>my birthday anymore. It seems like no one wants to

0:22:15.118 --> 0:22:18.917
<v Speaker 2>go and just kind of made it a lot about her.

0:22:19.198 --> 0:22:20.937
<v Speaker 2>And I was going through stuff as well. And I

0:22:20.978 --> 0:22:22.898
<v Speaker 2>think for once I was like, well, no, I'm going

0:22:22.918 --> 0:22:24.998
<v Speaker 2>through stuff as well, but I'm not like going to

0:22:25.048 --> 0:22:27.128
<v Speaker 2>take it out and make everyone else feel bad. I

0:22:27.188 --> 0:22:29.268
<v Speaker 2>really was trying to make an effort, but I also

0:22:29.368 --> 0:22:31.528
<v Speaker 2>did say was still standing up for myself and being

0:22:31.568 --> 0:22:33.907
<v Speaker 2>quite firm on the fact that I wasn't just going

0:22:33.928 --> 0:22:36.748
<v Speaker 2>to I apologize for things that I didn't need to

0:22:36.908 --> 0:22:39.207
<v Speaker 2>and I don't need to invite her to everything, especially

0:22:39.228 --> 0:22:41.748
<v Speaker 2>if she doesn't even like the people I'm with. We

0:22:41.828 --> 0:22:44.688
<v Speaker 2>constantly were kind of battling over things and it just

0:22:44.708 --> 0:22:47.227
<v Speaker 2>felt like it was not the fun times anymore. We

0:22:47.248 --> 0:22:49.968
<v Speaker 2>were just arguing. That's kind of when I said, look,

0:22:50.078 --> 0:22:52.458
<v Speaker 2>right now, how we're going backwards and forwards like this,

0:22:52.678 --> 0:22:56.128
<v Speaker 2>we're just fighting so much. And she really didn't see it.

0:22:56.698 --> 0:22:59.498
<v Speaker 2>She was not as aware of it as me, whereas

0:22:59.618 --> 0:23:01.838
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I do need a bit more of

0:23:01.878 --> 0:23:05.658
<v Speaker 2>a break. And... Yeah, I just did try and kind

0:23:05.698 --> 0:23:08.368
<v Speaker 2>of distance myself, but we were still making an effort.

0:23:08.948 --> 0:23:11.167
<v Speaker 2>She did say at one point, I don't know why

0:23:11.328 --> 0:23:14.308
<v Speaker 2>I'm so critical and harsh on you. And it is

0:23:14.368 --> 0:23:18.068
<v Speaker 2>something I need to work on because I really just

0:23:18.128 --> 0:23:20.157
<v Speaker 2>can't handle when you don't do things the way that

0:23:20.218 --> 0:23:22.718
<v Speaker 2>I think you should. So she was making an effort

0:23:22.738 --> 0:23:25.338
<v Speaker 2>to fix herself. She was going to her therapist again

0:23:25.898 --> 0:23:29.078
<v Speaker 2>twice a week. So she was making active steps to

0:23:29.178 --> 0:23:31.898
<v Speaker 2>work on herself. And she was making a real effort

0:23:31.918 --> 0:23:35.118
<v Speaker 2>to be kind. and be nice and be thoughtful and

0:23:35.158 --> 0:23:39.098
<v Speaker 2>like not, I guess, snap her tongue and be as

0:23:39.718 --> 0:23:42.378
<v Speaker 2>honest kind of as she had been in the past.

0:23:42.838 --> 0:23:45.378
<v Speaker 1>It was, by her own admission, a genuine attempt to

0:23:45.398 --> 0:23:48.098
<v Speaker 1>change and one the rest of the group could see too.

0:23:48.478 --> 0:23:50.758
<v Speaker 1>So when the festive season rolled around, the group booked

0:23:50.838 --> 0:23:53.308
<v Speaker 1>a campsite to ring in the new year. What could

0:23:53.348 --> 0:23:54.328
<v Speaker 1>possibly go wrong?

0:23:55.228 --> 0:23:58.768
<v Speaker 2>Me and Jess were there A couple of days early,

0:23:58.788 --> 0:24:01.888
<v Speaker 2>we road tripped down together and we had a really

0:24:01.948 --> 0:24:03.868
<v Speaker 2>good time. It was like the old days. We were

0:24:03.888 --> 0:24:08.568
<v Speaker 2>just laughing, singing, being silly, set up the campsite before

0:24:08.648 --> 0:24:10.608
<v Speaker 2>all the other girls, Mia and all the other girls

0:24:10.648 --> 0:24:14.408
<v Speaker 2>got there. And then the other girls came and she

0:24:14.488 --> 0:24:16.968
<v Speaker 2>started with that more jealousy and saying that I was

0:24:17.168 --> 0:24:20.148
<v Speaker 2>kind of leaving her out again. It came to New

0:24:20.168 --> 0:24:23.268
<v Speaker 2>Year's Eve and the bathrooms were about, you know, 200

0:24:23.268 --> 0:24:25.868
<v Speaker 2>meters from when we were staying. She had already gone

0:24:25.948 --> 0:24:29.278
<v Speaker 2>to the bathroom. And me and Mia walked down to

0:24:29.298 --> 0:24:31.657
<v Speaker 2>the bathroom. When we went down to the bathroom, I

0:24:31.678 --> 0:24:34.648
<v Speaker 2>yelled out, oh, Jess, are you in here? And she's like, yeah,

0:24:34.688 --> 0:24:36.288
<v Speaker 2>I'm in here. And I said, oh, I'll just wait

0:24:36.308 --> 0:24:38.208
<v Speaker 2>out the front for you. I walked out the front

0:24:38.608 --> 0:24:41.898
<v Speaker 2>and waited for her while Mia started walking back up

0:24:41.998 --> 0:24:45.478
<v Speaker 2>to the campsite. Then she came out of the bathroom

0:24:45.538 --> 0:24:49.458
<v Speaker 2>and walked past me and I was like, hey, Jess, Jess,

0:24:49.538 --> 0:24:51.278
<v Speaker 2>did you not see me? Jess. And she just kept

0:24:51.318 --> 0:24:53.677
<v Speaker 2>walking up to the campsite. And I was like, okay.

0:24:54.158 --> 0:24:56.048
<v Speaker 2>I got up to the campsite. I was like, hey,

0:24:56.088 --> 0:24:57.608
<v Speaker 2>did you not see me back there? She's like, of

0:24:57.648 --> 0:24:59.948
<v Speaker 2>course I saw you. I saw that you just left

0:25:00.008 --> 0:25:03.167
<v Speaker 2>me in the bathroom alone. Mind you, she went there alone.

0:25:03.248 --> 0:25:05.927
<v Speaker 2>It's not a very scary place. We're at a caravan park.

0:25:06.388 --> 0:25:09.328
<v Speaker 1>That was the spark. What followed was the whole friendship's

0:25:09.388 --> 0:25:11.358
<v Speaker 1>greatest hits delivered at volume.

0:25:11.718 --> 0:25:14.268
<v Speaker 2>And that's when she launched into leaving me out since

0:25:14.448 --> 0:25:17.868
<v Speaker 2>the girls got here. We had quite a large argument.

0:25:18.128 --> 0:25:20.508
<v Speaker 2>She was yelling at me and she said that I'm

0:25:20.548 --> 0:25:23.298
<v Speaker 2>a show pony. And I was like, no, I'm an extrovert. So,

0:25:23.338 --> 0:25:25.838
<v Speaker 2>of course, when other people are around, I do pick

0:25:25.878 --> 0:25:27.818
<v Speaker 2>up on energy and I get more excited and I

0:25:27.838 --> 0:25:31.298
<v Speaker 2>get more silly and like loud. And that's just who

0:25:31.378 --> 0:25:33.318
<v Speaker 2>I am. That's who I always have been, though. And

0:25:33.478 --> 0:25:35.458
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why you're bringing this up right now.

0:25:35.478 --> 0:25:38.108
<v Speaker 2>That's who I am. And you've always known that. She

0:25:38.148 --> 0:25:39.908
<v Speaker 2>brought up that I'm not good at replying to text

0:25:39.948 --> 0:25:43.458
<v Speaker 2>messages and And of course, I then as well said,

0:25:43.498 --> 0:25:46.417
<v Speaker 2>that's who I am. And I've never been someone that

0:25:46.438 --> 0:25:48.998
<v Speaker 2>replies to text messages. So it's not like my behavior's changed.

0:25:49.038 --> 0:25:50.697
<v Speaker 2>So why are you bringing that up? So I started

0:25:50.718 --> 0:25:53.167
<v Speaker 2>kind of defending myself and saying, these are my core

0:25:53.208 --> 0:25:55.768
<v Speaker 2>personality traits that you're tearing down and bringing down. And

0:25:56.768 --> 0:25:59.228
<v Speaker 2>that's who I am. So you're the one who fought

0:25:59.248 --> 0:26:01.348
<v Speaker 2>for this friendship and said you wanted to still be friends.

0:26:02.108 --> 0:26:03.977
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why. Like, tell me why you want

0:26:04.018 --> 0:26:05.957
<v Speaker 2>to still be my friend, because right now you're just

0:26:05.998 --> 0:26:08.848
<v Speaker 2>telling me everything that you don't like about me and

0:26:08.888 --> 0:26:12.848
<v Speaker 2>that you don't want to do. So she really just

0:26:12.888 --> 0:26:14.838
<v Speaker 2>said I was a bad friend. I also said to her,

0:26:14.858 --> 0:26:17.198
<v Speaker 2>I don't think any friend is ever going to meet

0:26:17.358 --> 0:26:21.978
<v Speaker 2>up to your expectations. I wasn't feeling all these things

0:26:22.018 --> 0:26:23.638
<v Speaker 2>that I kind of had felt in the past. I

0:26:23.678 --> 0:26:27.398
<v Speaker 2>think I was pretty okay with the things she was

0:26:27.438 --> 0:26:29.208
<v Speaker 2>saying because I kind of was like, I know that's

0:26:29.248 --> 0:26:30.308
<v Speaker 2>not me as a person.

0:26:30.648 --> 0:26:34.058
<v Speaker 1>Jess stormed off into the actual dark. and the group

0:26:34.098 --> 0:26:36.437
<v Speaker 1>made a decision that at one time Chloe would have

0:26:36.498 --> 0:26:37.738
<v Speaker 1>thought was unthinkable.

0:26:38.358 --> 0:26:40.378
<v Speaker 2>We went down to the beach for midnight because people

0:26:40.398 --> 0:26:44.138
<v Speaker 2>were letting off fireworks and stuff and had our speaker

0:26:44.158 --> 0:26:47.018
<v Speaker 2>and we're just being really silly and ridiculous. And I

0:26:47.838 --> 0:26:49.398
<v Speaker 2>was really glad I was still able to kind of

0:26:49.438 --> 0:26:51.438
<v Speaker 2>have a good time. I didn't let it ruin my

0:26:51.478 --> 0:26:54.608
<v Speaker 2>night and still really had a good time with my friends.

0:26:54.628 --> 0:26:57.208
<v Speaker 2>We weren't talking badly about her. We were just trying

0:26:57.228 --> 0:27:00.008
<v Speaker 2>to have a really good time, which was lovely. After

0:27:00.048 --> 0:27:02.228
<v Speaker 2>we'd been at the beach for the midnight camp and everything,

0:27:02.268 --> 0:27:04.908
<v Speaker 2>we went back to the campsite and she was there.

0:27:05.778 --> 0:27:08.858
<v Speaker 2>She started getting angry again because one of the girls

0:27:09.038 --> 0:27:10.518
<v Speaker 2>invited and said, do you want to come out for

0:27:10.538 --> 0:27:12.978
<v Speaker 2>a drink? And she said, no, you guys didn't care

0:27:12.998 --> 0:27:15.658
<v Speaker 2>about me when I walked off into the darkness. You

0:27:15.698 --> 0:27:18.437
<v Speaker 2>left me so something bad could have happened and you

0:27:18.458 --> 0:27:21.208
<v Speaker 2>just don't care and just started going off at them

0:27:21.268 --> 0:27:25.538
<v Speaker 2>as well. That's when Mia butted in and said, I've

0:27:25.578 --> 0:27:29.358
<v Speaker 2>seen the way that you treat Chloe and how you

0:27:29.858 --> 0:27:32.578
<v Speaker 2>always are being rude to her, being awful, saying she's

0:27:32.658 --> 0:27:35.538
<v Speaker 2>leaving you out. She always invites you. We always make

0:27:35.558 --> 0:27:38.648
<v Speaker 2>you feel included. You know, if you don't, that's on you.

0:27:39.078 --> 0:27:41.538
<v Speaker 2>You've been a really bad friend to Chloe and really

0:27:41.598 --> 0:27:45.128
<v Speaker 2>kind of called her out. That was hard because I

0:27:45.148 --> 0:27:46.768
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to get anyone else involved and make it

0:27:46.808 --> 0:27:48.488
<v Speaker 2>feel like we were ganging up on her. But at

0:27:48.548 --> 0:27:50.048
<v Speaker 2>the same time, it was nice to kind of have

0:27:50.068 --> 0:27:52.758
<v Speaker 2>that back up and know that I was not being crazy.

0:27:52.778 --> 0:27:55.058
<v Speaker 2>I ended up sleeping in my car because I was like,

0:27:55.138 --> 0:27:56.657
<v Speaker 2>I just, I don't even want to be in the

0:27:56.698 --> 0:28:00.358
<v Speaker 2>same tent as her. I didn't sleep much. I actually

0:28:00.378 --> 0:28:02.398
<v Speaker 2>went for a walk on the beach at like 4 a.m.,

0:28:02.458 --> 0:28:04.717
<v Speaker 2>which is quite interesting on New Year's Eve or New

0:28:04.738 --> 0:28:07.078
<v Speaker 2>Year's Day, the different things I saw. But I actually

0:28:07.118 --> 0:28:10.078
<v Speaker 2>saw heaps of dolphins and some manta rays, watched the sunrise.

0:28:10.118 --> 0:28:12.018
<v Speaker 2>And it was kind of like everyone else was asleep

0:28:12.058 --> 0:28:12.978
<v Speaker 2>and it was kind of like a bit of me

0:28:13.278 --> 0:28:16.058
<v Speaker 2>time to reflect on what just kind of happened. And

0:28:16.078 --> 0:28:20.398
<v Speaker 2>it was really nice. And I felt quite good about that.

0:28:20.418 --> 0:28:22.868
<v Speaker 2>The next day she said that she was getting picked

0:28:22.938 --> 0:28:25.568
<v Speaker 2>up by one of her family members. I helped her

0:28:25.588 --> 0:28:27.648
<v Speaker 2>pack up her tent but didn't really speak to her.

0:28:27.708 --> 0:28:30.148
<v Speaker 2>Just like, you know, was like, oh, yeah, do you

0:28:30.168 --> 0:28:31.488
<v Speaker 2>have that over there? Like, you know, it was very

0:28:31.628 --> 0:28:34.667
<v Speaker 2>awkward kind of chit-chat. And then she got picked up

0:28:34.748 --> 0:28:37.167
<v Speaker 2>and she came and said goodbye. I was at the

0:28:37.188 --> 0:28:38.548
<v Speaker 2>pool because I kind of didn't want to be there

0:28:38.588 --> 0:28:39.388
<v Speaker 2>when she got picked up.

0:28:39.928 --> 0:28:42.078
<v Speaker 1>It was only after she'd gone that Chloe found out

0:28:42.118 --> 0:28:43.898
<v Speaker 1>what the neighbours had made of the whole thing.

0:28:44.638 --> 0:28:47.438
<v Speaker 2>Our people that were staying in the campsite next to

0:28:47.538 --> 0:28:49.978
<v Speaker 2>us came up to me and said, were you the

0:28:49.998 --> 0:28:52.698
<v Speaker 2>girl yelling or getting yelled at last night? And I said,

0:28:52.898 --> 0:28:55.148
<v Speaker 2>I was getting yelled at. And he said... I just

0:28:55.168 --> 0:28:57.348
<v Speaker 2>want to let you know that you handled it really well.

0:28:57.818 --> 0:29:00.058
<v Speaker 2>And she was being really awful to you. And you

0:29:00.118 --> 0:29:02.138
<v Speaker 2>just stood up for yourself in the most nice way.

0:29:02.158 --> 0:29:04.458
<v Speaker 2>You weren't tearing her down, but you weren't taking it.

0:29:04.578 --> 0:29:06.898
<v Speaker 2>And he was just this random little old man. I said,

0:29:06.918 --> 0:29:08.998
<v Speaker 2>I'm so sorry if we kept you up. He said, no,

0:29:09.018 --> 0:29:11.798
<v Speaker 2>it was great entertainment, you know, better than the wife snoring.

0:29:11.858 --> 0:29:14.998
<v Speaker 2>So he was really sweet. So it was also nice

0:29:15.018 --> 0:29:17.028
<v Speaker 2>to kind of hear from a complete outsider that I

0:29:17.068 --> 0:29:19.328
<v Speaker 2>wasn't being crazy and that I handled it really well.

0:29:19.928 --> 0:29:21.728
<v Speaker 2>I think it was like in that moment when we

0:29:21.768 --> 0:29:24.948
<v Speaker 2>were having that big fight, I was realizing the things

0:29:24.988 --> 0:29:26.968
<v Speaker 2>that she was saying to me. It was kind of

0:29:26.988 --> 0:29:29.008
<v Speaker 2>like a bit of a light bulb moment that I

0:29:29.028 --> 0:29:31.308
<v Speaker 2>was like, so you just don't like me as a

0:29:31.328 --> 0:29:34.288
<v Speaker 2>person because all of the things that you're saying about me,

0:29:34.328 --> 0:29:37.748
<v Speaker 2>they're just my core personality traits. A couple of days

0:29:37.928 --> 0:29:41.178
<v Speaker 2>after I got back from camping, I realized that I

0:29:41.258 --> 0:29:43.388
<v Speaker 2>still had some of her stuff. So I had some

0:29:43.428 --> 0:29:46.188
<v Speaker 2>of that she left behind when we were camping. So

0:29:46.228 --> 0:29:48.638
<v Speaker 2>I actually just went and put it in her mailbox

0:29:49.138 --> 0:29:52.568
<v Speaker 2>and the I sent her a message saying, hey, just

0:29:52.608 --> 0:29:56.338
<v Speaker 2>letting you know that I have popped your stuff in

0:29:56.378 --> 0:29:58.838
<v Speaker 2>your letterbox. And I'm just letting you know as well

0:29:58.898 --> 0:30:01.388
<v Speaker 2>that I am going to block you on social media,

0:30:02.048 --> 0:30:04.608
<v Speaker 2>not for any other reason than I just know that

0:30:04.628 --> 0:30:08.288
<v Speaker 2>it'll be hard to see you living life and doing things.

0:30:08.708 --> 0:30:10.328
<v Speaker 2>And I just need a bit of a clean break.

0:30:11.028 --> 0:30:13.048
<v Speaker 2>She came back and said, I think that's pretty ridiculous.

0:30:13.128 --> 0:30:15.668
<v Speaker 2>After 10 years, that's all you've got to say. I said,

0:30:15.688 --> 0:30:17.228
<v Speaker 2>I wish you nothing but the best. I have a

0:30:17.288 --> 0:30:19.038
<v Speaker 2>lot more that I could say, but I just don't

0:30:19.058 --> 0:30:21.378
<v Speaker 2>think it's worth bringing it up for us both. And

0:30:21.398 --> 0:30:23.378
<v Speaker 2>I said, I'm too tired to argue with you anymore,

0:30:23.698 --> 0:30:24.478
<v Speaker 2>but I wish her all the best.

0:30:25.218 --> 0:30:28.138
<v Speaker 1>Ten years of friendship, ending with not a scene, but

0:30:28.178 --> 0:30:31.428
<v Speaker 1>a letterbox and a text message. The calm after the storm.

0:30:31.828 --> 0:30:34.068
<v Speaker 1>They still shared a friendship group, so the odd run-in

0:30:34.128 --> 0:30:36.848
<v Speaker 1>was inevitable, and Chloe decided she'd have to make her

0:30:36.888 --> 0:30:38.288
<v Speaker 1>peace with that fairly quickly.

0:30:38.798 --> 0:30:40.878
<v Speaker 2>We did have mutual friends and I would see her

0:30:40.998 --> 0:30:43.518
<v Speaker 2>at things and they were all, you know, kind and

0:30:43.558 --> 0:30:45.738
<v Speaker 2>would check with me first and make sure I was

0:30:45.798 --> 0:30:47.938
<v Speaker 2>okay with her being there. And I was okay with

0:30:47.958 --> 0:30:50.528
<v Speaker 2>her being there. I really was. I was fine with

0:30:50.548 --> 0:30:53.248
<v Speaker 2>seeing her. If anything, like, you know, it was nice

0:30:53.268 --> 0:30:56.148
<v Speaker 2>because it would be a bit uncomfortable, but I was

0:30:56.388 --> 0:30:58.848
<v Speaker 2>pretty okay with it all. Like I would see her

0:30:58.888 --> 0:31:01.168
<v Speaker 2>at things. I would chat to her. I'd say hi.

0:31:01.778 --> 0:31:04.058
<v Speaker 2>I never spoke badly about her to anyone and I

0:31:04.118 --> 0:31:07.018
<v Speaker 2>didn't want anything bad for her. I think that obviously

0:31:07.058 --> 0:31:10.718
<v Speaker 2>we weren't right as friends. We definitely weren't the right

0:31:10.758 --> 0:31:12.838
<v Speaker 2>kind of friends for each other, but I hope that

0:31:12.878 --> 0:31:15.158
<v Speaker 2>she learned from it. We did see each other around

0:31:15.218 --> 0:31:18.618
<v Speaker 2>for probably about a year after and then I guess

0:31:18.658 --> 0:31:20.838
<v Speaker 2>she kind of cut people off from that or they

0:31:20.878 --> 0:31:23.438
<v Speaker 2>cut her off as well. I know that she has

0:31:23.538 --> 0:31:26.238
<v Speaker 2>since done the same thing and I just have had

0:31:26.528 --> 0:31:28.688
<v Speaker 2>not seen her in many years, many, many years.

0:31:29.228 --> 0:31:30.548
<v Speaker 1>So where does that leave Chloe now?

0:31:32.488 --> 0:31:34.378
<v Speaker 2>Soon after me and her stopped being friends, I ended

0:31:34.388 --> 0:31:36.698
<v Speaker 2>up getting to the gym a lot and exercising heaps

0:31:36.758 --> 0:31:38.998
<v Speaker 2>and I lost like 20 kilos and was doing all

0:31:39.038 --> 0:31:42.478
<v Speaker 2>these great things for myself. I now know that I

0:31:42.518 --> 0:31:47.438
<v Speaker 2>have ADHD and I got diagnosed about three years ago

0:31:47.838 --> 0:31:50.258
<v Speaker 2>and it actually brought up a lot of stuff from

0:31:50.718 --> 0:31:54.088
<v Speaker 2>that friendship breakdown when I was getting diagnosed with my psychiatrist.

0:31:54.528 --> 0:31:56.728
<v Speaker 2>So it was quite emotional, but it helped me realize

0:31:56.768 --> 0:32:01.068
<v Speaker 2>that she actually, even now, it really made me reconfirm

0:32:01.108 --> 0:32:03.488
<v Speaker 2>that she didn't not like me she doesn't like people

0:32:03.508 --> 0:32:07.318
<v Speaker 2>with ADHD I think like she can't handle those traits

0:32:07.398 --> 0:32:10.378
<v Speaker 2>and she would find it lazy or that I was

0:32:10.538 --> 0:32:13.418
<v Speaker 2>being lazy not replying to text messages now you know

0:32:13.478 --> 0:32:15.728
<v Speaker 2>obviously we've come so far with mental health and stuff

0:32:16.348 --> 0:32:18.648
<v Speaker 2>and we know that for me it is a lot

0:32:18.688 --> 0:32:21.788
<v Speaker 2>harder and mentally challenging and everything for me to actually

0:32:22.318 --> 0:32:24.578
<v Speaker 2>sit down and write back to a message is quite

0:32:24.838 --> 0:32:28.778
<v Speaker 2>hard for me sometimes. So that's something that definitely came

0:32:28.878 --> 0:32:31.558
<v Speaker 2>out during that a lot that I was like, oh,

0:32:31.678 --> 0:32:34.418
<v Speaker 2>but it's hard as well because I really feel like

0:32:34.478 --> 0:32:37.818
<v Speaker 2>I was there. I didn't always understand her anxiety and depression,

0:32:37.898 --> 0:32:40.568
<v Speaker 2>but I always really tried to understand and help. I

0:32:40.608 --> 0:32:43.048
<v Speaker 2>guess with mine, it was a little bit more invisible

0:32:43.108 --> 0:32:45.848
<v Speaker 2>that we didn't know that I had ADHD, but yeah.

0:32:46.388 --> 0:32:48.388
<v Speaker 2>It was definitely a big thing when I got diagnosed

0:32:48.448 --> 0:32:50.988
<v Speaker 2>a few years ago. Me and my partner, I guess,

0:32:51.348 --> 0:32:55.248
<v Speaker 2>have spoken a lot about this relationship even though it

0:32:55.268 --> 0:32:57.988
<v Speaker 2>was a friendship that I had. I think it's been

0:32:58.078 --> 0:33:00.118
<v Speaker 2>probably one of the ones that have shaped me the

0:33:00.158 --> 0:33:05.238
<v Speaker 2>most out of even partner relationships before. You know, we

0:33:05.298 --> 0:33:08.678
<v Speaker 2>spoke about a lot of different things that his actual

0:33:08.918 --> 0:33:12.198
<v Speaker 2>ex and her would do that are quite similar so

0:33:12.218 --> 0:33:14.958
<v Speaker 2>it was quite a bit of a bonding experience for

0:33:14.998 --> 0:33:16.878
<v Speaker 2>us as well that we kind of almost had the

0:33:16.918 --> 0:33:20.598
<v Speaker 2>same situation just obviously his was a romantic and mine

0:33:20.618 --> 0:33:23.258
<v Speaker 2>was a friendship but it's definitely been one of the

0:33:23.298 --> 0:33:25.998
<v Speaker 2>things that have come up for me much more than

0:33:26.078 --> 0:33:29.568
<v Speaker 2>any romantic relationships that I've had before. I think that

0:33:29.608 --> 0:33:32.848
<v Speaker 2>it was a harder kind of breakup than any relationship

0:33:32.908 --> 0:33:35.508
<v Speaker 2>I've had. It changed my life more than anything and

0:33:35.568 --> 0:33:37.868
<v Speaker 2>made me the person I am today more than anything

0:33:37.928 --> 0:33:40.468
<v Speaker 2>as well. I'm a lot better at sticking up for

0:33:40.488 --> 0:33:44.208
<v Speaker 2>myself now and having hard conversations. I think she definitely

0:33:44.248 --> 0:33:46.468
<v Speaker 2>taught me how to have really hard conversations with people

0:33:46.488 --> 0:33:49.668
<v Speaker 2>because I actually used to kind of avoid that. I

0:33:49.748 --> 0:33:54.478
<v Speaker 2>definitely do miss her, the fun, amazing times and laughing

0:33:54.498 --> 0:33:57.058
<v Speaker 2>that we had together. Like I definitely do miss that.

0:33:57.578 --> 0:34:01.158
<v Speaker 2>I also, though, don't miss the bad side. And I

0:34:01.198 --> 0:34:03.868
<v Speaker 2>think the bad outweighs the good. I have absolutely like

0:34:03.888 --> 0:34:06.268
<v Speaker 2>no drama in my life now. And I'm just the

0:34:06.308 --> 0:34:08.928
<v Speaker 2>happiest I've ever been. You know, I've got the best partner.

0:34:08.948 --> 0:34:12.167
<v Speaker 2>I've got the best friends. And I also think, though,

0:34:12.208 --> 0:34:14.328
<v Speaker 2>that I'm really glad that it all happened because it

0:34:14.368 --> 0:34:16.468
<v Speaker 2>made me choose myself and stand up for myself a

0:34:16.488 --> 0:34:19.508
<v Speaker 2>little bit more. And now I'm way better at doing that.

0:34:19.908 --> 0:34:22.058
<v Speaker 2>And I'm also very careful the way I'm doing it,

0:34:22.148 --> 0:34:24.948
<v Speaker 2>not doing it too harshly because I learned a lot

0:34:24.968 --> 0:34:28.398
<v Speaker 2>of lessons from this. I just really appreciate it for

0:34:28.438 --> 0:34:30.678
<v Speaker 2>what it was and really just value that time that

0:34:30.698 --> 0:34:31.538
<v Speaker 2>we did have together.

0:34:46.548 --> 0:34:49.328
<v Speaker 1>Everyone Has an Ex-Best Friend is a Minty Media production

0:34:49.448 --> 0:34:52.088
<v Speaker 1>and proudly part of the Mamma Mia Network. This interview

0:34:52.128 --> 0:34:55.198
<v Speaker 1>was conducted, written and produced by Linda Scott and narrated

0:34:55.258 --> 0:34:57.618
<v Speaker 1>by me, Georgia Love. If you have a story you'd

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