WEBVTT - The Seven Year Friendship Rule 0:00:08.234 --> 0:00:17.553 You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Hello and welcome to 0:00:17.594 --> 0:00:20.473 MoMA Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking 0:00:20.474 --> 0:00:22.834 about on Friday, the fifth of December. And I am 0:00:22.834 --> 0:00:23.834 Holly Wayne Wright. 0:00:23.634 --> 0:00:24.954 And I am m Burnham. 0:00:25.034 --> 0:00:26.274 I'm Jesse Stevens. 0:00:26.474 --> 0:00:29.874 And here's what's on our agenda for today. M here 0:00:29.994 --> 0:00:33.114 is how you pick a partner. God, don't worry about 0:00:33.153 --> 0:00:39.034 the big value alignment stuff. We are worried about micro compatibilities. 0:00:39.034 --> 0:00:40.713 I'm worried about everything at this point. 0:00:41.354 --> 0:00:45.114 We are working out what your micro compatibilities are. Just 0:00:45.153 --> 0:00:47.193 think about for a moment, what time you like to 0:00:47.193 --> 0:00:49.473 get to the airport. That's what we're going to be discussing. 0:00:49.754 --> 0:00:52.594 And we have our weekly recos. I'm going to try 0:00:52.674 --> 0:00:55.033 to not talk about F one for the entire segment, 0:00:55.154 --> 0:00:57.474 but you know, no promise. It's a big week. 0:00:58.514 --> 0:01:00.114 But first Jesse Stevens. 0:01:00.434 --> 0:01:04.474 A woman named Daniel Bayard Jackson is a female friendship 0:01:04.514 --> 0:01:07.914 coach and educator. She has a theory about your friendships. 0:01:08.434 --> 0:01:11.514 Here's what she said on the Mel Robbins podcast. 0:01:11.754 --> 0:01:15.634 Recently, women replace about half of their friends every seven years. 0:01:15.994 --> 0:01:19.434 Yeah, so men and women. Yeah, there's research that finds 0:01:19.434 --> 0:01:22.394 that we replace half of our friends every seven years. 0:01:22.594 --> 0:01:25.953 I hope that that makes people feel a little less 0:01:25.994 --> 0:01:28.714 ashamed if they have friendships that don't work out, because 0:01:28.714 --> 0:01:31.114 what that says to me is that there's this natural 0:01:31.194 --> 0:01:35.874 pruning that happens throughout your life. I also hope that 0:01:35.874 --> 0:01:39.114 that has people release any shame around needing to make 0:01:39.194 --> 0:01:42.794 new friends, because I hear people say I'm out here 0:01:42.914 --> 0:01:45.634 making friends at forty two. I should have had all 0:01:45.714 --> 0:01:48.034 my friends from high school. Really, because I know some 0:01:48.074 --> 0:01:49.754 of the friends I had in high school. It would 0:01:49.834 --> 0:01:52.514 not be appropriate for us to still be friends. It 0:01:52.514 --> 0:01:54.314 wouldn't make sense to where I am right now or 0:01:54.314 --> 0:01:56.714 the values I have right now. And so if we 0:01:56.954 --> 0:02:01.154 are dropping or shedding new friends every seven years, that 0:02:01.194 --> 0:02:03.314 means we need to be picking up new ones because 0:02:03.314 --> 0:02:05.634 what does that churn rate look like? How am I 0:02:05.674 --> 0:02:08.714 positioning myself to invite new friendships into my life? So 0:02:08.754 --> 0:02:11.034 I hope it shows us that we will always be 0:02:11.194 --> 0:02:12.674 having to make new friends. 0:02:13.034 --> 0:02:17.194 I'm about to get pruned when the seven years I 0:02:17.274 --> 0:02:19.913 could go, I might be about to fall. 0:02:20.034 --> 0:02:22.594 Currently, I am just about to enter one. 0:02:22.674 --> 0:02:24.314 So I start a new one at thirty five, and 0:02:24.354 --> 0:02:26.794 I'm thirty five in like a less than a month, 0:02:27.314 --> 0:02:30.634 So that's my new cycle. But Jackson says that this 0:02:30.754 --> 0:02:34.673 research means a lot of us find ourselves in seasons 0:02:34.714 --> 0:02:39.274 of friendlessness because we've shed. But it's quite hard to 0:02:39.354 --> 0:02:42.274 acquire new friends, especially as an adult. 0:02:42.394 --> 0:02:42.634 Right. 0:02:43.354 --> 0:02:46.754 If seven years sounds familiar, that is because it corresponds 0:02:46.794 --> 0:02:49.394 with the seven year itch, which we hear about in 0:02:49.594 --> 0:02:53.714 romantic relationships. So there's this theory that human development is 0:02:53.754 --> 0:02:58.073 marked by seven year cycles, and apparently your personality changes, 0:02:58.274 --> 0:02:59.834 there's new cognitive skills. 0:03:00.594 --> 0:03:02.034 Look, what do we. 0:03:01.994 --> 0:03:06.634 Think do we think friendship shedding is important? 0:03:08.514 --> 0:03:12.154 This is an audio media. Man, you're watching us on 0:03:12.234 --> 0:03:15.154 YouTube shaking. 0:03:15.634 --> 0:03:16.834 I just close my eyes. 0:03:16.634 --> 0:03:20.274 And shook my head. I hate this so much. I 0:03:20.314 --> 0:03:24.353 feel like there's always something new with friendships. We always 0:03:24.354 --> 0:03:27.793 say women, the most important relationships in your life is 0:03:27.834 --> 0:03:30.354 the friendships you have with other women, And yet we 0:03:30.434 --> 0:03:32.754 do shit like this, Well, like, after seven years you're 0:03:32.794 --> 0:03:34.794 done with them, You're gonna get someone else. We never 0:03:34.874 --> 0:03:39.234 do this for romantic relationships. And every time this happens 0:03:39.234 --> 0:03:41.354 to a friend of mine who I haven't heard from 0:03:41.394 --> 0:03:41.994 in a really. 0:03:41.834 --> 0:03:43.674 Long time, So you think it does happen. 0:03:43.434 --> 0:03:45.754 It does happen for sure, but I haven't seen a 0:03:45.754 --> 0:03:47.434 long time, haven't heard from her in a long time. 0:03:47.634 --> 0:03:49.834 They break up with their partner and they have no one, 0:03:49.874 --> 0:03:52.754 They have no friends because they've been shedding, and they 0:03:52.874 --> 0:03:55.154 do it like unconsciously. I feel like we are less 0:03:55.274 --> 0:03:57.314 likely to break up with friends. We kind of just 0:03:57.354 --> 0:04:00.834 stop staying in touch, and then that's when people start 0:04:00.874 --> 0:04:02.434 reaching out to you again, and then they get into 0:04:02.474 --> 0:04:05.034 a new relationship, and then you get shredded again, and 0:04:05.074 --> 0:04:07.114 then you get a new relationship and then get shredded again. 0:04:07.554 --> 0:04:10.634 And it just feels like I have to constantly try 0:04:10.634 --> 0:04:13.794 to keep up with friendship trends just to make sure 0:04:13.874 --> 0:04:15.754 I'm maintaining my own friendships. 0:04:15.794 --> 0:04:19.154 Do you shared friends every seven years? No, it is 0:04:19.194 --> 0:04:21.834 your core group of friends. How long do you think 0:04:21.834 --> 0:04:22.394 you've had them. 0:04:22.594 --> 0:04:25.833 I think I've had my core group of friends for 0:04:26.234 --> 0:04:26.914 seven years. 0:04:26.993 --> 0:04:30.034 Yeah, because I reckon Probably from when you started work. 0:04:30.154 --> 0:04:32.354 Yeah, my first friends are from when I started here 0:04:32.354 --> 0:04:32.674 at my MA. 0:04:33.113 --> 0:04:35.393 So you like bonded in that intense way you do 0:04:35.753 --> 0:04:36.794 in a new workplace. 0:04:37.513 --> 0:04:39.633 I don't want to know. I don't want Todd. 0:04:39.834 --> 0:04:40.913 That's time for shedding. 0:04:41.113 --> 0:04:43.193 No is a seven year shred just means that you're 0:04:43.234 --> 0:04:44.913 about to enter a different life stage. 0:04:44.914 --> 0:04:48.433 It's not shred, it's shed shed. But the only reason 0:04:48.513 --> 0:04:50.914 I'm correcting you on that because generally people who correct 0:04:50.953 --> 0:04:53.713 people are annoying, and the clearly annoying. But is that 0:04:54.073 --> 0:04:59.193 shred sounds brutal like your whereas this is shedding, which 0:04:59.234 --> 0:05:02.394 sounds more gentle, kind of like it's just something that 0:05:02.474 --> 0:05:03.674 happens organically. 0:05:04.034 --> 0:05:06.474 You know it is, and it's still stuck. 0:05:06.234 --> 0:05:06.714 To the root. 0:05:07.594 --> 0:05:10.393 I went back to the research, though, and your point 0:05:10.753 --> 0:05:11.994 is an important one. 0:05:12.154 --> 0:05:14.314 M The researchers say this happens. 0:05:14.474 --> 0:05:17.313 This is a phenomenon that they can point to and go, 0:05:17.393 --> 0:05:20.953 this happens in people's lives. So I was researching Jackson 0:05:20.993 --> 0:05:24.153 because the question is how you would share a friendship 0:05:24.313 --> 0:05:26.674 like this, right? And I found this radit thread of 0:05:26.674 --> 0:05:29.234 this woman who had clearly got this advice that you 0:05:29.674 --> 0:05:33.234 shared every seven years and a friend kept reaching out. 0:05:33.834 --> 0:05:35.794 Is actually from the perspective of the friend who got 0:05:35.834 --> 0:05:38.873 shared and she shared what this woman sent to her 0:05:39.274 --> 0:05:42.873 to say, friendship's over. So she basically said, hey, haven't 0:05:42.873 --> 0:05:44.713 seen each other in a few weeks. Getting a weird 0:05:44.753 --> 0:05:45.113 vibe is. 0:05:45.113 --> 0:05:46.953 Everything okay, and this is what she said. 0:05:47.354 --> 0:05:49.794 Hey, I wanted to wait until after the holidays, and 0:05:49.834 --> 0:05:51.674 I wanted to try and gather my thoughts together in 0:05:51.714 --> 0:05:53.914 the best way. But that's not fair to you. I 0:05:53.953 --> 0:05:55.874 really love you and your family, and I value the 0:05:55.873 --> 0:05:58.674 friendship we had. I've been trying for a while now 0:05:58.714 --> 0:06:00.993 to figure out how exactly to say this, but I 0:06:00.993 --> 0:06:01.914 think you said it well. 0:06:02.073 --> 0:06:03.034 We've outgrown each other. 0:06:03.113 --> 0:06:03.594 Oh. 0:06:03.674 --> 0:06:04.193 I don't want to. 0:06:04.234 --> 0:06:06.634 Drag this out because that doesn't benefit either of us. 0:06:06.714 --> 0:06:08.674 But I want you to know that I really enjoyed 0:06:08.674 --> 0:06:10.873 the time we had together, and I truly hope you 0:06:10.953 --> 0:06:12.274 do well moving forward. 0:06:12.834 --> 0:06:14.993 I would rather die than send that message. 0:06:15.034 --> 0:06:18.393 That's worse than a breakup. That's so bad. 0:06:18.914 --> 0:06:20.193 It is so bad. 0:06:21.113 --> 0:06:21.474 Ghost. 0:06:23.154 --> 0:06:27.674 It's really important to have those long term friendships that 0:06:27.714 --> 0:06:30.993 you've had for years and years and years, and apparently 0:06:31.073 --> 0:06:35.154 they are like again seven signs or seven things that 0:06:35.513 --> 0:06:37.473 you need at least a few of them to have 0:06:37.594 --> 0:06:39.674 this person be a lifelong friend. So a few of 0:06:39.674 --> 0:06:41.834 them are really obvious, like you've got to be able 0:06:41.834 --> 0:06:44.913 to speak the same language, right, But sense of humor, 0:06:45.553 --> 0:06:50.553 values are really important, and career trajectory is apparently really important. 0:06:50.633 --> 0:06:53.113 Okay, I want to have to question you about values 0:06:53.154 --> 0:06:57.793 and career trajectory because I got a little bit itchy 0:06:57.914 --> 0:07:01.513 when she said some of my friendships from high school 0:07:01.513 --> 0:07:04.914 wouldn't be appropriate and they wouldn't reflect the values of 0:07:04.953 --> 0:07:08.354 who I am today. That sound to me like a 0:07:08.474 --> 0:07:11.794 job interview kind of. And also like your friends, you know, 0:07:11.834 --> 0:07:13.794 there's that thing of like your friends are a reflection 0:07:13.914 --> 0:07:18.674 of you, almost as if oh, you don't reflect very 0:07:18.714 --> 0:07:21.153 well on me, so I can't be around you, which 0:07:21.274 --> 0:07:24.914 I don't like that idea. Do we want total alignment 0:07:25.034 --> 0:07:28.994 from our friends? No, thought, we have friends who share 0:07:29.674 --> 0:07:30.913 our values. 0:07:30.474 --> 0:07:31.754 Exactly, exactly. 0:07:31.794 --> 0:07:33.914 And so with those seven things, the idea is that 0:07:33.953 --> 0:07:35.714 there's a few of them that you've got. And another 0:07:35.754 --> 0:07:39.354 one is hobbies and another is taste in music. So 0:07:39.594 --> 0:07:42.394 I also bristle at that holly because I think that 0:07:42.474 --> 0:07:44.794 the life stage where this comes really obvious is when 0:07:45.274 --> 0:07:47.634 some people in the friendship group have kids and some don't. 0:07:47.953 --> 0:07:50.154 And I think that there can be this thing among 0:07:50.274 --> 0:07:51.954 parents where it's like I've outgrown you. 0:07:52.474 --> 0:07:57.833 I've outgrown you with your sleepins and your yeah, and 0:07:57.953 --> 0:08:01.314 I really there's a snobbery to that, and also a 0:08:01.393 --> 0:08:04.154 sense that your values change overnight, and I'm not sure 0:08:04.194 --> 0:08:08.393 that that's necessarily true, and I think it's so real shame. 0:08:08.794 --> 0:08:11.114 Yeah, I think it depends what you're looking for in 0:08:11.154 --> 0:08:13.154 your friends. Like we're going to get to friend groups 0:08:13.154 --> 0:08:15.153 in a minute, but often you're a friend group that 0:08:15.194 --> 0:08:16.994 you have will have bonded in a certain time in 0:08:17.074 --> 0:08:18.754 your life, just like we were just talking about with you, 0:08:18.994 --> 0:08:21.153 m And maybe that time in your life, maybe you 0:08:21.194 --> 0:08:22.994 were at school, or you were at college, or you 0:08:23.034 --> 0:08:25.314 were in an early job or whatever, and you probably 0:08:25.354 --> 0:08:28.914 were spending heaps of intense time together, whether at work 0:08:29.034 --> 0:08:32.074 or living together or going out or whatever, and so 0:08:32.154 --> 0:08:34.434 that bonded you in a certain way. But once that 0:08:34.794 --> 0:08:37.874 stops and everything, you know, people spin off out into 0:08:37.914 --> 0:08:40.834 the other groups. Sometimes you do realize that you didn't 0:08:40.874 --> 0:08:43.394 have as much in common as you thought, or not 0:08:43.434 --> 0:08:45.594 even as much in common, but that you didn't gel 0:08:45.674 --> 0:08:47.874 as well as you thought, and actually it was circumstance 0:08:47.994 --> 0:08:51.354 that was the glue. But then other times you think, well, 0:08:51.394 --> 0:08:53.874 we're nothing alike, but I still really like hanging out 0:08:53.874 --> 0:08:56.514 with you. You know, we don't have that much in common, 0:08:56.554 --> 0:08:59.194 maybe we disagree politically, maybe you know, I do have 0:08:59.234 --> 0:09:01.874 friends like that where I'm like, there are some things 0:09:01.954 --> 0:09:05.234 that we fundamentally don't agree on, but you know that 0:09:05.434 --> 0:09:06.594 doesn't mean I don't like you. 0:09:06.834 --> 0:09:10.394 Is also a question of time and energy. 0:09:10.714 --> 0:09:13.634 What the research says is that you've got the capacity 0:09:13.714 --> 0:09:17.713 to maintain about three to five close close intimate friendships. 0:09:18.114 --> 0:09:21.914 So if you've only got that, and then you can 0:09:21.954 --> 0:09:24.274 see how the trading in and out can happen. 0:09:24.394 --> 0:09:24.554 Right. 0:09:24.594 --> 0:09:27.674 But I would say that my three to five close 0:09:27.754 --> 0:09:32.714 friendships are really long term, are longer than seven years. 0:09:33.034 --> 0:09:34.274 Maybe one one in. 0:09:34.234 --> 0:09:37.274 The last seven years who's kind of come in, and 0:09:37.314 --> 0:09:41.994 then the others might be situational or life stage. But 0:09:42.394 --> 0:09:44.914 those ones, I think there's something critical about having people 0:09:44.954 --> 0:09:46.594 who've known you for a really long time. 0:09:46.874 --> 0:09:49.234 I also think that when I think about like my 0:09:49.354 --> 0:09:52.874 closest friends, it's from like my own point of view, 0:09:52.874 --> 0:09:55.034 and like you three are my closest friends, I don't 0:09:55.034 --> 0:09:57.914 necessarily know if I fall in that same category for 0:09:58.034 --> 0:10:00.914 those certain friends. So I feel like where I would 0:10:00.954 --> 0:10:03.714 probably bristle is that if I think these are lifelong 0:10:03.754 --> 0:10:06.074 friendships for seven years and then they get to my 0:10:06.114 --> 0:10:08.794 seven year mark and they're like, actually no. 0:10:09.474 --> 0:10:11.154 Because I think that's true. I think there are some 0:10:11.194 --> 0:10:14.074 people who are lifelong friends no matter what. Yeah, their 0:10:14.114 --> 0:10:16.514 family pretty much is the way I see that. And 0:10:16.554 --> 0:10:18.434 then there are people who are friends who you like 0:10:18.514 --> 0:10:20.874 hanging out with, but it's not necessarily bonded on. However, 0:10:20.994 --> 0:10:24.034 in defense of new friendships, the part about this that 0:10:24.114 --> 0:10:26.154 I did like is just saying you should always be 0:10:26.194 --> 0:10:29.954 open to new friendships because life is long. Like it's 0:10:29.994 --> 0:10:32.474 not like we everything exciting happens in the first two 0:10:32.514 --> 0:10:34.234 decades and then you're set, and this is like, these 0:10:34.274 --> 0:10:36.194 are the people you stuck with now to travel through 0:10:36.274 --> 0:10:39.874 life like, all kinds of adventures continue to happen, and 0:10:39.914 --> 0:10:42.594 you bump into interesting people all along the way, and 0:10:42.674 --> 0:10:46.714 if you like someone enough, you'll make room for them 0:10:46.714 --> 0:10:48.514 in your life. It probably won't be the kind of 0:10:48.594 --> 0:10:51.074 room that you had in those early days, as in, 0:10:51.154 --> 0:10:53.274 you know, we're staying over every night and we're going 0:10:53.274 --> 0:10:55.074 out and we're doing this, and that. It might be 0:10:55.114 --> 0:10:56.634 our lives are busy, we're only going to see each 0:10:56.674 --> 0:10:58.834 other every few months, but I really like you. I 0:10:58.874 --> 0:11:01.114 want you in my world. I think staying open to 0:11:01.154 --> 0:11:03.394 that rather than closing the door is good. 0:11:03.394 --> 0:11:06.754 And also not feeling shame about being at a stage 0:11:06.794 --> 0:11:09.754 where you feel like your green light is on thinking 0:11:09.794 --> 0:11:11.874 I'm actually really open to some new friends. I know 0:11:12.034 --> 0:11:14.874 lots of people who who say it with like this 0:11:15.034 --> 0:11:18.154 vulnerability of just like, I'm feeling a bit lonely and 0:11:18.194 --> 0:11:20.034 I don't feel connected at the moment, and I would 0:11:20.074 --> 0:11:20.994 love some new friends. 0:11:21.074 --> 0:11:23.674 I want to bring up something else about friendship that 0:11:23.834 --> 0:11:25.714 was really interesting this week, and hear what you two 0:11:25.754 --> 0:11:29.274 think about it. So there's an essay on Substack by 0:11:29.434 --> 0:11:32.474 a writer called harneit Core, and she wrote a piece 0:11:32.514 --> 0:11:34.874 called I don't think most of us are lonely. I 0:11:34.874 --> 0:11:37.754 think we're obsessed with a friend group that doesn't exist 0:11:38.154 --> 0:11:42.234 and never did. She opens this article with this, you 0:11:42.274 --> 0:11:44.354 know the one six people who met in college and 0:11:44.394 --> 0:11:47.074 still get dinner every Thursday. They have a group chat 0:11:47.074 --> 0:11:49.594 that's actually active. They take trips together, they show up 0:11:49.634 --> 0:11:52.554 with soup and someone's sick. They exist in every sitcom, 0:11:52.634 --> 0:11:55.754 every wedding toast, every podcast where someone casually mentions my 0:11:55.874 --> 0:11:58.274 girls like it's the most natural thing in the world. 0:11:58.874 --> 0:12:02.674 Core writes, this friend group is fiction, but we've stared 0:12:02.714 --> 0:12:05.954 at it so long we've started to believe it's the baseline. 0:12:06.074 --> 0:12:08.074 She says, if you think about the people that you 0:12:08.194 --> 0:12:10.474 talk to more often in your life, she said, if 0:12:10.514 --> 0:12:11.953 you think you'll only make a list of all the 0:12:11.954 --> 0:12:14.554 people you speak to in a week, she says, why 0:12:14.594 --> 0:12:18.634 do we devalue all those little relationships. The coworker that 0:12:18.674 --> 0:12:20.754 you vent to, the neighbor who held the elevator, the 0:12:20.794 --> 0:12:22.833 cousin who calls you on long drives. None of them 0:12:22.834 --> 0:12:26.354 feel like they count because they're not the group. But 0:12:26.474 --> 0:12:28.554 what if all that is friendship? What if we have 0:12:28.634 --> 0:12:30.674 more than we think and we've just been trained to 0:12:30.794 --> 0:12:34.714 disqualify it. What do we think about that? Do we 0:12:34.794 --> 0:12:38.514 think we are always striving for a particular version of 0:12:38.554 --> 0:12:42.394 friendship that maybe is nowhen in as common as we 0:12:42.434 --> 0:12:42.874 think it is. 0:12:43.314 --> 0:12:47.353 I think I definitely strived for that in my early twenties, 0:12:47.434 --> 0:12:50.514 Like I saw what friendship was meant to look like, 0:12:50.554 --> 0:12:52.354 and I wanted mind to reflect on that, to the 0:12:52.354 --> 0:12:54.874 point where I would start to call my friends out 0:12:54.914 --> 0:12:57.154 if they weren't hanging out with me enough. I remember 0:12:57.274 --> 0:13:00.074 I one of my really good friends, I wanted to 0:13:00.114 --> 0:13:02.034 get dinner with her and we were trying to organize 0:13:02.034 --> 0:13:03.834 a date and she's like, I'm really busy this week. 0:13:04.234 --> 0:13:05.554 I was like, well, what are you doing on this day? 0:13:05.554 --> 0:13:07.074 And she's like, oh, I'm meeting up with a friend. 0:13:07.154 --> 0:13:08.714 Why I made at the gym and I was like, 0:13:08.874 --> 0:13:14.234 I think you need to reprioritize your friendship. You're hot, cool, 0:13:14.874 --> 0:13:16.834 and I think about that all the time. I was 0:13:16.874 --> 0:13:20.234 like a couple of mons at that. I saw that 0:13:20.394 --> 0:13:22.514 every week. I don't know why I said that. 0:13:22.554 --> 0:13:25.194 It's true though, there's this like vision that you torment 0:13:25.314 --> 0:13:28.354 yourself with that you imagine that. You know, it's the 0:13:28.954 --> 0:13:34.074 long table with fifteen women who are just have been 0:13:34.114 --> 0:13:36.274 close since high school, and you just. 0:13:36.194 --> 0:13:39.754 Think God, like the second effects, like you just picture 0:13:39.794 --> 0:13:41.994 yourself at a bar and like a friend plongs down 0:13:42.034 --> 0:13:43.874 and you just like straight away start talking about their 0:13:43.874 --> 0:13:44.914 sex life. Yeah. 0:13:44.994 --> 0:13:48.754 But I think to the point made in that substack post, 0:13:49.794 --> 0:13:52.874 I think there are obviously different tiers of friendship. But 0:13:53.274 --> 0:13:55.154 I also want to validate people who do talk to 0:13:55.194 --> 0:13:58.394 their coworker, they do talk to their neighbor, maybe they're married, 0:13:59.074 --> 0:14:02.074 maybe they speak to people at the school gate, whatever, 0:14:02.194 --> 0:14:07.634 and they still feel lonely. And this researcher who was 0:14:07.674 --> 0:14:10.874 on mel Robbins this Jackson said that there are three 0:14:10.914 --> 0:14:14.234 different types of loneliness, and the first is called intimate loneliness, 0:14:14.274 --> 0:14:17.394 and it's when you don't feel truly seen, and you 0:14:17.594 --> 0:14:20.674 probably don't feel truly seen by your coworker who you 0:14:20.954 --> 0:14:22.314 share a sandwich with. 0:14:22.354 --> 0:14:25.034 Once a week. Like there is a level of. 0:14:25.274 --> 0:14:28.754 Intimate close friendships where you can call up and say 0:14:28.794 --> 0:14:33.354 the most, you know, the darkest, most terrific, most embarrassing 0:14:33.514 --> 0:14:35.634 thought that you've had that week. Sometimes I just have 0:14:35.794 --> 0:14:39.914 these thoughts and there is a specific friend that I 0:14:39.994 --> 0:14:41.594 will go to and maybe I haven't talked for in 0:14:41.594 --> 0:14:43.954 two weeks, but I'll just dump it and go just 0:14:43.994 --> 0:14:44.474 confirm it. 0:14:44.514 --> 0:14:45.474 Are we all thinking this? 0:14:45.674 --> 0:14:48.234 And she'll go yet, nahna, and just validate it, And 0:14:48.274 --> 0:14:51.074 so you feel seen in that exchange. 0:14:51.274 --> 0:14:53.754 Do you have a group like this? Who around this 0:14:53.874 --> 0:14:58.034 table has a group? As described by Core in that newsletter. 0:14:57.754 --> 0:15:00.514 When I was at UNI, I met a group of people. 0:15:00.514 --> 0:15:04.434 Two of them are guys and now they're girlfriends, fiancees, 0:15:04.794 --> 0:15:07.234 and there's probably eight of us and we're in a 0:15:07.274 --> 0:15:10.714 group chat and we talk most days and we go 0:15:10.754 --> 0:15:11.394 away together. 0:15:11.474 --> 0:15:12.194 That's your friend group. 0:15:12.274 --> 0:15:13.074 That's our friend group. 0:15:13.114 --> 0:15:17.754 And they're the people I see down the road at barbecues, 0:15:17.794 --> 0:15:19.674 zack kids grow up like all of that. 0:15:19.834 --> 0:15:21.674 I just see that as a real care. 0:15:21.674 --> 0:15:23.514 So you have the group. Do you have the group? 0:15:23.554 --> 0:15:25.434 You have the group, they're the girls that you're here. 0:15:25.554 --> 0:15:27.714 I do have the group. It was a bigger group, 0:15:27.754 --> 0:15:30.754 and then it's like silos sometimes into smaller groups, depending 0:15:30.834 --> 0:15:33.594 Like I feel like when you're single, you see each 0:15:33.634 --> 0:15:35.314 other more, and then when you're in a relationship, they 0:15:35.394 --> 0:15:37.514 kind of see each other more and they're like couple friends. 0:15:37.994 --> 0:15:41.034 And I used to really hate that because I was like, no, 0:15:41.074 --> 0:15:42.594 the group has to say together, it has to be together. 0:15:42.634 --> 0:15:44.314 It has to be like six of us at all times. 0:15:44.754 --> 0:15:46.754 And now a lot of them I have like moved 0:15:46.794 --> 0:15:50.034 into state and they have like different schedules. And it 0:15:50.114 --> 0:15:52.754 took me a while to kind of learn how to 0:15:52.794 --> 0:15:55.194 feel safe in an environment where I'm not seeing them 0:15:55.274 --> 0:15:59.434 constantly and not having that like physical interaction that does 0:15:59.474 --> 0:16:01.474 look like I'm on an episode of Friends. Because I 0:16:01.554 --> 0:16:06.034 always approach my friendships in a very like egotistical way, 0:16:06.074 --> 0:16:07.834 whereas like it has to look like that, it has 0:16:07.874 --> 0:16:09.514 to feel like that, and if we're doing it like that, 0:16:09.554 --> 0:16:10.434 then that's the right way. 0:16:10.514 --> 0:16:12.874 I think You're being on stem about like lots of 0:16:12.954 --> 0:16:15.314 us might say, Oh, that's really superficial. I wanted to say, 0:16:15.314 --> 0:16:18.034 that's not what friendship looks like. But we've all really 0:16:18.114 --> 0:16:21.114 rusted onto these ideas of how friendship looks and I 0:16:21.154 --> 0:16:23.554 think that that's one of the things that looking at 0:16:23.594 --> 0:16:26.434 it from the outside rather than being inside it. We 0:16:26.554 --> 0:16:28.314 need to figure out which one of those things is 0:16:28.314 --> 0:16:31.074 more important in a moment. 0:16:31.634 --> 0:16:32.274 Oh, I'm so. 0:16:32.274 --> 0:16:35.314 Excited to talk about this. We're talking about the real 0:16:35.874 --> 0:16:37.194 dating deal breaking. 0:16:41.114 --> 0:16:41.234 Am. 0:16:41.274 --> 0:16:43.394 I'm bringing some anti energy to the table, and I'm 0:16:43.394 --> 0:16:45.874 being like, I need to give you some advice. I 0:16:45.914 --> 0:16:47.474 need to give you some advice because I read something 0:16:47.514 --> 0:16:49.514 this week made a lot of sense to me, because 0:16:49.554 --> 0:16:51.354 I know that you're in the business of auditioning a 0:16:51.394 --> 0:16:54.514 future life partner. Yeah, she's not just dating, she is 0:16:54.554 --> 0:16:55.954 auditioning a future life partner. 0:16:55.954 --> 0:16:58.634 I can't wait to get in a relationship so we 0:16:58.674 --> 0:17:02.074 can stop. Every time second I hear. 0:17:01.914 --> 0:17:05.354 That Ray song, you know that song that's ever mining, Well. 0:17:05.194 --> 0:17:05.714 The hell is that? 0:17:05.834 --> 0:17:06.274 Husband? 0:17:06.434 --> 0:17:10.194 I just think of what was on? Can I get 0:17:10.194 --> 0:17:15.154 them one more time? Not because I think you need one, 0:17:15.154 --> 0:17:17.354 but because you think you need one. I'm always like, 0:17:17.474 --> 0:17:18.474 you know, I think you. 0:17:18.354 --> 0:17:20.594 Think I think that I think I need one, I. 0:17:20.474 --> 0:17:22.114 Think wants. 0:17:24.434 --> 0:17:26.314 Anyway to go on a date. 0:17:26.554 --> 0:17:28.114 No one was making you go on a date. 0:17:28.394 --> 0:17:30.834 M I know you have a list of questions because 0:17:30.834 --> 0:17:32.634 we've talked about it before, that you like to discuss 0:17:32.634 --> 0:17:35.513 on first dates, right, but I have sex, marriage, kids. 0:17:35.594 --> 0:17:38.634 Oh my god, to see this is a problem. I 0:17:38.674 --> 0:17:41.234 read this article by Polly Hudson and the UK Guardian 0:17:41.354 --> 0:17:44.434 that suggests that people are keen to skip the small 0:17:44.474 --> 0:17:47.514 talk these days. She writes, so wady conversation topics such 0:17:47.514 --> 0:17:50.074 as life goals, like the things that you just mentioned 0:17:50.714 --> 0:17:53.194 are deal breakers and are now brought up straight away. 0:17:53.434 --> 0:17:56.114 That's what you're doing, right, And I'm. 0:17:55.994 --> 0:17:57.994 So glad I can be the guinea pig for this topic. 0:17:58.194 --> 0:18:01.354 Hudson says, this is a mistake. What matters to longevity 0:18:01.514 --> 0:18:03.834 is how long before a flight do you like to 0:18:03.834 --> 0:18:06.874 get to the airport? Do you wander supermarket aisles when 0:18:06.914 --> 0:18:08.394 you go shopping or do you go in with a 0:18:08.394 --> 0:18:11.634 hard list for maximum efficiency? Would you walk out of 0:18:11.674 --> 0:18:15.754 a movie if it was terrible? She's saying that basically, 0:18:16.034 --> 0:18:19.474