Speaker 1: You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Hello and welcome to
Speaker 1: MoMA Mia out Loud. It's what women are actually talking
Speaker 1: about on Friday, the fifth of December. And I am
Speaker 1: Holly Wayne Wright.
Speaker 2: And I am m Burnham.
Speaker 3: I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 1: And here's what's on our agenda for today. M here
Speaker 1: is how you pick a partner. God, don't worry about
Speaker 1: the big value alignment stuff. We are worried about micro compatibilities.
Speaker 2: I'm worried about everything at this point.
Speaker 1: We are working out what your micro compatibilities are. Just
Speaker 1: think about for a moment, what time you like to
Speaker 1: get to the airport. That's what we're going to be discussing.
Speaker 2: And we have our weekly recos. I'm going to try
Speaker 2: to not talk about F one for the entire segment,
Speaker 2: but you know, no promise. It's a big week.
Speaker 1: But first Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 4: A woman named Daniel Bayard Jackson is a female friendship
Speaker 4: coach and educator. She has a theory about your friendships.
Speaker 4: Here's what she said on the Mel Robbins podcast.
Speaker 2: Recently, women replace about half of their friends every seven years.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so men and women. Yeah, there's research that finds
Speaker 5: that we replace half of our friends every seven years.
Speaker 5: I hope that that makes people feel a little less
Speaker 5: ashamed if they have friendships that don't work out, because
Speaker 5: what that says to me is that there's this natural
Speaker 5: pruning that happens throughout your life. I also hope that
Speaker 5: that has people release any shame around needing to make
Speaker 5: new friends, because I hear people say I'm out here
Speaker 5: making friends at forty two. I should have had all
Speaker 5: my friends from high school. Really, because I know some
Speaker 5: of the friends I had in high school. It would
Speaker 5: not be appropriate for us to still be friends. It
Speaker 5: wouldn't make sense to where I am right now or
Speaker 5: the values I have right now. And so if we
Speaker 5: are dropping or shedding new friends every seven years, that
Speaker 5: means we need to be picking up new ones because
Speaker 5: what does that churn rate look like? How am I
Speaker 5: positioning myself to invite new friendships into my life? So
Speaker 5: I hope it shows us that we will always be
Speaker 5: having to make new friends.
Speaker 1: I'm about to get pruned when the seven years I
Speaker 1: could go, I might be about to fall.
Speaker 3: Currently, I am just about to enter one.
Speaker 4: So I start a new one at thirty five, and
Speaker 4: I'm thirty five in like a less than a month,
Speaker 4: So that's my new cycle. But Jackson says that this
Speaker 4: research means a lot of us find ourselves in seasons
Speaker 4: of friendlessness because we've shed. But it's quite hard to
Speaker 4: acquire new friends, especially as an adult.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: If seven years sounds familiar, that is because it corresponds
Speaker 4: with the seven year itch, which we hear about in
Speaker 4: romantic relationships. So there's this theory that human development is
Speaker 4: marked by seven year cycles, and apparently your personality changes,
Speaker 4: there's new cognitive skills.
Speaker 3: Look, what do we.
Speaker 4: Think do we think friendship shedding is important?
Speaker 1: This is an audio media. Man, you're watching us on
Speaker 1: YouTube shaking.
Speaker 3: I just close my eyes.
Speaker 2: And shook my head. I hate this so much. I
Speaker 2: feel like there's always something new with friendships. We always
Speaker 2: say women, the most important relationships in your life is
Speaker 2: the friendships you have with other women, And yet we
Speaker 2: do shit like this, Well, like, after seven years you're
Speaker 2: done with them, You're gonna get someone else. We never
Speaker 2: do this for romantic relationships. And every time this happens
Speaker 2: to a friend of mine who I haven't heard from
Speaker 2: in a really.
Speaker 1: Long time, So you think it does happen.
Speaker 2: It does happen for sure, but I haven't seen a
Speaker 2: long time, haven't heard from her in a long time.
Speaker 2: They break up with their partner and they have no one,
Speaker 2: They have no friends because they've been shedding, and they
Speaker 2: do it like unconsciously. I feel like we are less
Speaker 2: likely to break up with friends. We kind of just
Speaker 2: stop staying in touch, and then that's when people start
Speaker 2: reaching out to you again, and then they get into
Speaker 2: a new relationship, and then you get shredded again, and
Speaker 2: then you get a new relationship and then get shredded again.
Speaker 2: And it just feels like I have to constantly try
Speaker 2: to keep up with friendship trends just to make sure
Speaker 2: I'm maintaining my own friendships.
Speaker 1: Do you shared friends every seven years? No, it is
Speaker 1: your core group of friends. How long do you think
Speaker 1: you've had them.
Speaker 2: I think I've had my core group of friends for
Speaker 2: seven years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I reckon Probably from when you started work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my first friends are from when I started here
Speaker 2: at my MA.
Speaker 1: So you like bonded in that intense way you do
Speaker 1: in a new workplace.
Speaker 2: I don't want to know. I don't want Todd.
Speaker 1: That's time for shedding.
Speaker 2: No is a seven year shred just means that you're
Speaker 2: about to enter a different life stage.
Speaker 1: It's not shred, it's shed shed. But the only reason
Speaker 1: I'm correcting you on that because generally people who correct
Speaker 1: people are annoying, and the clearly annoying. But is that
Speaker 1: shred sounds brutal like your whereas this is shedding, which
Speaker 1: sounds more gentle, kind of like it's just something that
Speaker 1: happens organically.
Speaker 3: You know it is, and it's still stuck.
Speaker 2: To the root.
Speaker 4: I went back to the research, though, and your point
Speaker 4: is an important one.
Speaker 3: M The researchers say this happens.
Speaker 4: This is a phenomenon that they can point to and go,
Speaker 4: this happens in people's lives. So I was researching Jackson
Speaker 4: because the question is how you would share a friendship
Speaker 4: like this, right? And I found this radit thread of
Speaker 4: this woman who had clearly got this advice that you
Speaker 4: shared every seven years and a friend kept reaching out.
Speaker 4: Is actually from the perspective of the friend who got
Speaker 4: shared and she shared what this woman sent to her
Speaker 4: to say, friendship's over. So she basically said, hey, haven't
Speaker 4: seen each other in a few weeks. Getting a weird
Speaker 4: vibe is.
Speaker 3: Everything okay, and this is what she said.
Speaker 4: Hey, I wanted to wait until after the holidays, and
Speaker 4: I wanted to try and gather my thoughts together in
Speaker 4: the best way. But that's not fair to you. I
Speaker 4: really love you and your family, and I value the
Speaker 4: friendship we had. I've been trying for a while now
Speaker 4: to figure out how exactly to say this, but I
Speaker 4: think you said it well.
Speaker 3: We've outgrown each other.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 3: I don't want to.
Speaker 4: Drag this out because that doesn't benefit either of us.
Speaker 4: But I want you to know that I really enjoyed
Speaker 4: the time we had together, and I truly hope you
Speaker 4: do well moving forward.
Speaker 1: I would rather die than send that message.
Speaker 2: That's worse than a breakup. That's so bad.
Speaker 3: It is so bad.
Speaker 1: Ghost.
Speaker 4: It's really important to have those long term friendships that
Speaker 4: you've had for years and years and years, and apparently
Speaker 4: they are like again seven signs or seven things that
Speaker 4: you need at least a few of them to have
Speaker 4: this person be a lifelong friend. So a few of
Speaker 4: them are really obvious, like you've got to be able
Speaker 4: to speak the same language, right, But sense of humor,
Speaker 4: values are really important, and career trajectory is apparently really important.
Speaker 1: Okay, I want to have to question you about values
Speaker 1: and career trajectory because I got a little bit itchy
Speaker 1: when she said some of my friendships from high school
Speaker 1: wouldn't be appropriate and they wouldn't reflect the values of
Speaker 1: who I am today. That sound to me like a
Speaker 1: job interview kind of. And also like your friends, you know,
Speaker 1: there's that thing of like your friends are a reflection
Speaker 1: of you, almost as if oh, you don't reflect very
Speaker 1: well on me, so I can't be around you, which
Speaker 1: I don't like that idea. Do we want total alignment
Speaker 1: from our friends? No, thought, we have friends who share
Speaker 1: our values.
Speaker 3: Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 4: And so with those seven things, the idea is that
Speaker 4: there's a few of them that you've got. And another
Speaker 4: one is hobbies and another is taste in music. So
Speaker 4: I also bristle at that holly because I think that
Speaker 4: the life stage where this comes really obvious is when
Speaker 4: some people in the friendship group have kids and some don't.
Speaker 3: And I think that there can be this thing among
Speaker 3: parents where it's like I've outgrown you.
Speaker 4: I've outgrown you with your sleepins and your yeah, and
Speaker 4: I really there's a snobbery to that, and also a
Speaker 4: sense that your values change overnight, and I'm not sure
Speaker 4: that that's necessarily true, and I think it's so real shame.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it depends what you're looking for in
Speaker 1: your friends. Like we're going to get to friend groups
Speaker 1: in a minute, but often you're a friend group that
Speaker 1: you have will have bonded in a certain time in
Speaker 1: your life, just like we were just talking about with you,
Speaker 1: m And maybe that time in your life, maybe you
Speaker 1: were at school, or you were at college, or you
Speaker 1: were in an early job or whatever, and you probably
Speaker 1: were spending heaps of intense time together, whether at work
Speaker 1: or living together or going out or whatever, and so
Speaker 1: that bonded you in a certain way. But once that
Speaker 1: stops and everything, you know, people spin off out into
Speaker 1: the other groups. Sometimes you do realize that you didn't
Speaker 1: have as much in common as you thought, or not
Speaker 1: even as much in common, but that you didn't gel
Speaker 1: as well as you thought, and actually it was circumstance
Speaker 1: that was the glue. But then other times you think, well,
Speaker 1: we're nothing alike, but I still really like hanging out
Speaker 1: with you. You know, we don't have that much in common,
Speaker 1: maybe we disagree politically, maybe you know, I do have
Speaker 1: friends like that where I'm like, there are some things
Speaker 1: that we fundamentally don't agree on, but you know that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean I don't like you.
Speaker 3: Is also a question of time and energy.
Speaker 4: What the research says is that you've got the capacity
Speaker 4: to maintain about three to five close close intimate friendships.
Speaker 4: So if you've only got that, and then you can
Speaker 4: see how the trading in and out can happen.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: But I would say that my three to five close
Speaker 4: friendships are really long term, are longer than seven years.
Speaker 3: Maybe one one in.
Speaker 4: The last seven years who's kind of come in, and
Speaker 4: then the others might be situational or life stage. But
Speaker 4: those ones, I think there's something critical about having people
Speaker 4: who've known you for a really long time.
Speaker 2: I also think that when I think about like my
Speaker 2: closest friends, it's from like my own point of view,
Speaker 2: and like you three are my closest friends, I don't
Speaker 2: necessarily know if I fall in that same category for
Speaker 2: those certain friends. So I feel like where I would
Speaker 2: probably bristle is that if I think these are lifelong
Speaker 2: friendships for seven years and then they get to my
Speaker 2: seven year mark and they're like, actually no.
Speaker 1: Because I think that's true. I think there are some
Speaker 1: people who are lifelong friends no matter what. Yeah, their
Speaker 1: family pretty much is the way I see that. And
Speaker 1: then there are people who are friends who you like
Speaker 1: hanging out with, but it's not necessarily bonded on. However,
Speaker 1: in defense of new friendships, the part about this that
Speaker 1: I did like is just saying you should always be
Speaker 1: open to new friendships because life is long. Like it's
Speaker 1: not like we everything exciting happens in the first two
Speaker 1: decades and then you're set, and this is like, these
Speaker 1: are the people you stuck with now to travel through
Speaker 1: life like, all kinds of adventures continue to happen, and
Speaker 1: you bump into interesting people all along the way, and
Speaker 1: if you like someone enough, you'll make room for them
Speaker 1: in your life. It probably won't be the kind of
Speaker 1: room that you had in those early days, as in,
Speaker 1: you know, we're staying over every night and we're going
Speaker 1: out and we're doing this, and that. It might be
Speaker 1: our lives are busy, we're only going to see each
Speaker 1: other every few months, but I really like you. I
Speaker 1: want you in my world. I think staying open to
Speaker 1: that rather than closing the door is good.
Speaker 4: And also not feeling shame about being at a stage
Speaker 4: where you feel like your green light is on thinking
Speaker 4: I'm actually really open to some new friends. I know
Speaker 4: lots of people who who say it with like this
Speaker 4: vulnerability of just like, I'm feeling a bit lonely and
Speaker 4: I don't feel connected at the moment, and I would
Speaker 4: love some new friends.
Speaker 1: I want to bring up something else about friendship that
Speaker 1: was really interesting this week, and hear what you two
Speaker 1: think about it. So there's an essay on Substack by
Speaker 1: a writer called harneit Core, and she wrote a piece
Speaker 1: called I don't think most of us are lonely. I
Speaker 1: think we're obsessed with a friend group that doesn't exist
Speaker 1: and never did. She opens this article with this, you
Speaker 1: know the one six people who met in college and
Speaker 1: still get dinner every Thursday. They have a group chat
Speaker 1: that's actually active. They take trips together, they show up
Speaker 1: with soup and someone's sick. They exist in every sitcom,
Speaker 1: every wedding toast, every podcast where someone casually mentions my
Speaker 1: girls like it's the most natural thing in the world.
Speaker 1: Core writes, this friend group is fiction, but we've stared
Speaker 1: at it so long we've started to believe it's the baseline.
Speaker 1: She says, if you think about the people that you
Speaker 1: talk to more often in your life, she said, if
Speaker 1: you think you'll only make a list of all the
Speaker 1: people you speak to in a week, she says, why
Speaker 1: do we devalue all those little relationships. The coworker that
Speaker 1: you vent to, the neighbor who held the elevator, the
Speaker 1: cousin who calls you on long drives. None of them
Speaker 1: feel like they count because they're not the group. But
Speaker 1: what if all that is friendship? What if we have
Speaker 1: more than we think and we've just been trained to
Speaker 1: disqualify it. What do we think about that? Do we
Speaker 1: think we are always striving for a particular version of
Speaker 1: friendship that maybe is nowhen in as common as we
Speaker 1: think it is.
Speaker 2: I think I definitely strived for that in my early twenties,
Speaker 2: Like I saw what friendship was meant to look like,
Speaker 2: and I wanted mind to reflect on that, to the
Speaker 2: point where I would start to call my friends out
Speaker 2: if they weren't hanging out with me enough. I remember
Speaker 2: I one of my really good friends, I wanted to
Speaker 2: get dinner with her and we were trying to organize
Speaker 2: a date and she's like, I'm really busy this week.
Speaker 2: I was like, well, what are you doing on this day?
Speaker 2: And she's like, oh, I'm meeting up with a friend.
Speaker 2: Why I made at the gym and I was like,
Speaker 2: I think you need to reprioritize your friendship. You're hot, cool,
Speaker 2: and I think about that all the time. I was
Speaker 2: like a couple of mons at that. I saw that
Speaker 2: every week. I don't know why I said that.
Speaker 4: It's true though, there's this like vision that you torment
Speaker 4: yourself with that you imagine that. You know, it's the
Speaker 4: long table with fifteen women who are just have been
Speaker 4: close since high school, and you just.
Speaker 2: Think God, like the second effects, like you just picture
Speaker 2: yourself at a bar and like a friend plongs down
Speaker 2: and you just like straight away start talking about their
Speaker 2: sex life. Yeah.
Speaker 4: But I think to the point made in that substack post,
Speaker 4: I think there are obviously different tiers of friendship. But
Speaker 4: I also want to validate people who do talk to
Speaker 4: their coworker, they do talk to their neighbor, maybe they're married,
Speaker 4: maybe they speak to people at the school gate, whatever,
Speaker 4: and they still feel lonely. And this researcher who was
Speaker 4: on mel Robbins this Jackson said that there are three
Speaker 4: different types of loneliness, and the first is called intimate loneliness,
Speaker 4: and it's when you don't feel truly seen, and you
Speaker 4: probably don't feel truly seen by your coworker who you
Speaker 4: share a sandwich with.
Speaker 3: Once a week. Like there is a level of.
Speaker 4: Intimate close friendships where you can call up and say
Speaker 4: the most, you know, the darkest, most terrific, most embarrassing
Speaker 4: thought that you've had that week. Sometimes I just have
Speaker 4: these thoughts and there is a specific friend that I
Speaker 4: will go to and maybe I haven't talked for in
Speaker 4: two weeks, but I'll just dump it and go just
Speaker 4: confirm it.
Speaker 3: Are we all thinking this?
Speaker 4: And she'll go yet, nahna, and just validate it, And
Speaker 4: so you feel seen in that exchange.
Speaker 1: Do you have a group like this? Who around this
Speaker 1: table has a group? As described by Core in that newsletter.
Speaker 3: When I was at UNI, I met a group of people.
Speaker 4: Two of them are guys and now they're girlfriends, fiancees,
Speaker 4: and there's probably eight of us and we're in a
Speaker 4: group chat and we talk most days and we go
Speaker 4: away together.
Speaker 1: That's your friend group.
Speaker 3: That's our friend group.
Speaker 4: And they're the people I see down the road at barbecues,
Speaker 4: zack kids grow up like all of that.
Speaker 3: I just see that as a real care.
Speaker 1: So you have the group. Do you have the group?
Speaker 1: You have the group, they're the girls that you're here.
Speaker 2: I do have the group. It was a bigger group,
Speaker 2: and then it's like silos sometimes into smaller groups, depending
Speaker 2: Like I feel like when you're single, you see each
Speaker 2: other more, and then when you're in a relationship, they
Speaker 2: kind of see each other more and they're like couple friends.
Speaker 2: And I used to really hate that because I was like, no,
Speaker 2: the group has to say together, it has to be together.
Speaker 2: It has to be like six of us at all times.
Speaker 2: And now a lot of them I have like moved
Speaker 2: into state and they have like different schedules. And it
Speaker 2: took me a while to kind of learn how to
Speaker 2: feel safe in an environment where I'm not seeing them
Speaker 2: constantly and not having that like physical interaction that does
Speaker 2: look like I'm on an episode of Friends. Because I
Speaker 2: always approach my friendships in a very like egotistical way,
Speaker 2: whereas like it has to look like that, it has
Speaker 2: to feel like that, and if we're doing it like that,
Speaker 2: then that's the right way.
Speaker 1: I think You're being on stem about like lots of
Speaker 1: us might say, Oh, that's really superficial. I wanted to say,
Speaker 1: that's not what friendship looks like. But we've all really
Speaker 1: rusted onto these ideas of how friendship looks and I
Speaker 1: think that that's one of the things that looking at
Speaker 1: it from the outside rather than being inside it. We
Speaker 1: need to figure out which one of those things is
Speaker 1: more important in a moment.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm so.
Speaker 1: Excited to talk about this. We're talking about the real
Speaker 1: dating deal breaking.
Speaker 3: Am.
Speaker 1: I'm bringing some anti energy to the table, and I'm
Speaker 1: being like, I need to give you some advice. I
Speaker 1: need to give you some advice because I read something
Speaker 1: this week made a lot of sense to me, because
Speaker 1: I know that you're in the business of auditioning a
Speaker 1: future life partner. Yeah, she's not just dating, she is
Speaker 1: auditioning a future life partner.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to get in a relationship so we
Speaker 2: can stop. Every time second I hear.
Speaker 1: That Ray song, you know that song that's ever mining, Well.
Speaker 5: The hell is that?
Speaker 2: Husband?
Speaker 1: I just think of what was on? Can I get
Speaker 1: them one more time? Not because I think you need one,
Speaker 1: but because you think you need one. I'm always like,
Speaker 1: you know, I think you.
Speaker 2: Think I think that I think I need one, I.
Speaker 3: Think wants.
Speaker 2: Anyway to go on a date.
Speaker 3: No one was making you go on a date.
Speaker 1: M I know you have a list of questions because
Speaker 1: we've talked about it before, that you like to discuss
Speaker 1: on first dates, right, but I have sex, marriage, kids.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, to see this is a problem. I
Speaker 1: read this article by Polly Hudson and the UK Guardian
Speaker 1: that suggests that people are keen to skip the small
Speaker 1: talk these days. She writes, so wady conversation topics such
Speaker 1: as life goals, like the things that you just mentioned
Speaker 1: are deal breakers and are now brought up straight away.
Speaker 1: That's what you're doing, right, And I'm.
Speaker 2: So glad I can be the guinea pig for this topic.
Speaker 1: Hudson says, this is a mistake. What matters to longevity
Speaker 1: is how long before a flight do you like to
Speaker 1: get to the airport? Do you wander supermarket aisles when
Speaker 1: you go shopping or do you go in with a
Speaker 1: hard list for maximum efficiency? Would you walk out of
Speaker 1: a movie if it was terrible? She's saying that basically,
Speaker 1: these are the things that really matter because if you
Speaker 1: have a partnership where these things are really different. They
Speaker 1: might seem really cute at first, but one day it
Speaker 1: will be the end of your relationship. The criticism of
Speaker 1: this will be on an endless loop. One day you'll
Speaker 1: feel instantly murderous at the mere mention of an airport.
Speaker 3: Like with the flight example.
Speaker 1: Now I want to know two things. I want to
Speaker 1: know what we would add to this list of like
Speaker 1: life deal breakers, and also whether you really should look
Speaker 1: for someone who shares the same ones as you or
Speaker 1: whether you want someone who does something different. So, for
Speaker 1: let's take the airport example. Right, Yeah, how long before
Speaker 1: a flight do you like to get to an airport?
Speaker 2: I have a lot of airport anxiety. You might have
Speaker 2: noticed for the outlaudtoid and travel with anyone, No, I
Speaker 2: didn't see. Yeah, I have to be there three hours before.
Speaker 1: So imagine you meet the perfect person, but he's an
Speaker 1: hour person. He's an hour before person. That's it.
Speaker 2: Now we're breaking up.
Speaker 1: Why are you or are you one day going to
Speaker 1: come to a glorious compromise of ninety minutes. I'm not sure, Jesse,
Speaker 1: what about you?
Speaker 4: I'm probably more like two hours because I do have
Speaker 4: a lot of anxiety about missing the fly.
Speaker 2: I just don't want to be seen as the person
Speaker 2: who misses.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's embarrassing, and walking on last and
Speaker 4: everyone looking at you like you've held up the flight.
Speaker 3: I don't like that.
Speaker 4: But I married a three hour and so there is
Speaker 4: definitely there's always a chat, there's always a conversation.
Speaker 3: We've got to find a happy medium.
Speaker 2: And did you know that about each other during the
Speaker 2: dating press? And in some.
Speaker 4: Ways I see, I would argue that in some instances
Speaker 4: you want your yin and your yan. Yes, you want
Speaker 4: two people who approach things very differently to get to
Speaker 4: a lifestyle that is actually quite enjoyable.
Speaker 3: You don't want two people competing for like, well it's
Speaker 3: the latest we can get to the airport, because then
Speaker 3: you just never go on home.
Speaker 1: And also, I would argue in some of these things,
Speaker 1: you want to pick someone who's your yang so that
Speaker 1: you don't have to do the difficult shit. For example,
Speaker 1: are you a person who if you arrive on holiday,
Speaker 1: the hotel looks nothing like the photos? Are you changing
Speaker 1: the room?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to get the Instagram. Got to get
Speaker 2: the photos the Instagram.
Speaker 4: Imagine you turn up on that holiday, it's seven nights yeah,
Speaker 4: and sunk cost fallacy.
Speaker 3: The person you've turned up with goes, no, this is
Speaker 3: what we paid for.
Speaker 4: We will stay in the shower where the water doesn't
Speaker 4: go like.
Speaker 1: I would never, I would never change never.
Speaker 3: No way, it doesn't look like the photos.
Speaker 1: So I get to let's say we're going to Thailand. No,
Speaker 1: I haven't been Challe since I was twenty three. But anyway,
Speaker 1: say I'm going to Thailand and I've booked my resort
Speaker 1: and it looked lovely, but I paid because package deal
Speaker 1: A freaking paid and I turn up and it's not great.
Speaker 1: I would be upset and frustrated for the entire week.
Speaker 1: But I would put up with it, no question. And
Speaker 1: the problem is I would brands.
Speaker 2: I will then post on your Instagram, the site, yeahs.
Speaker 1: Other things, but it's not it's about I just couldn't
Speaker 1: bring myself to walk up to the counter. I'm just
Speaker 1: not wired that way. Whereas I know plenty of people
Speaker 1: who one night in a hotel, if the bed's not whatever,
Speaker 1: they'll go downstairs and go I need a better room.
Speaker 1: That's the two types of people thing. And this is
Speaker 1: one of those examples where I think, if you're like
Speaker 1: me and you're avoidant. It would probably be good if
Speaker 1: my partner was a walk out person. It's like, do
Speaker 1: you send food back?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 1: I never send food back, And the problem is I
Speaker 1: never send foodbacks. I never want to be seen as
Speaker 1: really difficult. But if I was with someone who did,
Speaker 1: that would be great because I would sit there going,
Speaker 1: this is shit. But I don't want to tell them.
Speaker 1: You tell them, you tell them.
Speaker 4: There was something I saw on Instagram last night that
Speaker 4: I went to tag Holly in and then I went,
Speaker 4: maybe she'll get offended. It said myself and my partner
Speaker 4: reject traditional gender roles. I don't clean and he doesn't
Speaker 4: fix broken things, and our house is dirty and broken.
Speaker 2: And I was like, this is.
Speaker 3: Bread.
Speaker 1: So this is what we're trying to plant here.
Speaker 4: Here's one that I really struggle with and has caused
Speaker 4: friction in my relationship. And I didn't know before. We
Speaker 4: took me a while to learn it. When you go
Speaker 4: to the beach, do you like to sit and lie
Speaker 4: and soak it up and have hours at the beach
Speaker 4: or your quick dip and get back in the car.
Speaker 4: Because I have married a dip back in the car
Speaker 4: and that's not relaxing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we're from the outer suburbs, so we had
Speaker 2: beach days. So we've only acknowledged the beach in the
Speaker 2: sense of a whole day.
Speaker 3: Exactly right.
Speaker 1: It's a tree.
Speaker 3: Every time I go to the beach. It's a total trait.
Speaker 3: How about you.
Speaker 2: My big one is if I am dating someone, I
Speaker 2: need to find out what type of holiday family they're from,
Speaker 2: Like are they a hiking family or a hotel family,
Speaker 2: the two different types. I'm a hotel family. Yeah, when
Speaker 2: my family goes on holidays, surprise, we stay in hotels,
Speaker 2: we eat at restaurants, we go back to the hotel.
Speaker 2: I can't date someone who goes hike and then sight
Speaker 2: see and then hike again, and then we'll into the
Speaker 2: next sight seeing place and then eating sandwiches while we're
Speaker 2: walking to the next hiking place. That is absolutely not
Speaker 2: Absolutely my theory.
Speaker 1: Is okay, So holiday styles.
Speaker 4: I wonder, speaking of holiday styles, having someone who's the
Speaker 4: travel agent of the relationship, right and they go we're
Speaker 4: going here, we're going here, hiker blah blah blah blah,
Speaker 4: like they organize it. I think that sometimes a good
Speaker 4: mix is having one of those and the other's just
Speaker 4: a passenger. And they're happy to just show up and
Speaker 4: they get sent the itinerary.
Speaker 3: Did they look at it?
Speaker 1: Not?
Speaker 4: And they're not allowed to have opinions. But the other
Speaker 4: person is like the book or the blah, the blah,
Speaker 4: like I think that they're a lot that's fair fair
Speaker 4: where if you sat and on paper it might not
Speaker 4: look compatible, but it actually really.
Speaker 3: Works for you.
Speaker 1: Are you a que jumper? This is another one, right,
Speaker 1: So imagine you turn up to a concert, flight queue
Speaker 1: a restaurant and there's a line and you could cut in,
Speaker 1: like not rudely, like elbow a child out of the way,
Speaker 1: but like just hover around a certain space, and then
Speaker 1: just you're running.
Speaker 3: Late that flight and you go, hey, excuse me my flights?
Speaker 1: Can I come to the front?
Speaker 3: Can I go to the front?
Speaker 1: Do you do that or not? Are you a cue
Speaker 1: jumper or not?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Absolutely not.
Speaker 4: I'd be more to be in the presence of a
Speaker 4: que jumper, mortifying.
Speaker 1: I've tried to do some que jumping when we went
Speaker 1: to Oasis recently and a I got yelled at by strangers,
Speaker 1: which was and b Brent nearly divorced me on the spot,
Speaker 1: not that we're married, but I was like we're not
Speaker 1: exactly jumping the queue. We're just standing here and the
Speaker 1: queue will just envelop us and move forward. And he
Speaker 1: was like, no, it won't.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 2: I hate that. I can't even do the whole thing
Speaker 2: where if you see friends ahead of you and they
Speaker 2: wave to you, I can't even go to them.
Speaker 3: I'm always I'm like, I'm back here.
Speaker 2: I'll catch up with you when I get in.
Speaker 1: So in some situations, people please, and in some situations not.
Speaker 1: Do you bringe your TV shows or do you parcel
Speaker 1: them out like treats? This is another important one. Sometimes
Speaker 1: you're there and you're watching TV and you're like another
Speaker 1: one and they're like no, no, no, no, we're done.
Speaker 1: We'll wait there.
Speaker 2: Oh you know what, the relationships done? We're watching every
Speaker 2: single episode of this show. Will you talk about this
Speaker 2: all on the first date.
Speaker 1: The idea is little lifestyle things that actually matter more
Speaker 1: maybe than going like big picture values. And I think
Speaker 1: it's true these are the things that couples fight about.
Speaker 1: What time to get to the airport. Bren always thinks
Speaker 1: that I've packed too much, like when we're packing the
Speaker 1: car to go away. Always whenever you go to on
Speaker 1: a shopping trip, not that shopping trip, but like, you know,
Speaker 1: I want to go to the shops. He acts like
Speaker 1: he's being attacked by a bear in a shop. He
Speaker 1: has to get out of there as quickly as possible,
Speaker 1: Like you just want to go. I just want to
Speaker 1: look at that, and it's like raw. This is the
Speaker 1: stuff people fight about, and it also tells you a
Speaker 1: lot about their personality.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I reckon. There's a little checklist that you should
Speaker 3: probably go through.
Speaker 2: Just it's just getting harder and harder.
Speaker 1: It's going to make it easier because then you think,
Speaker 1: if I want someone to do this for me, like
Speaker 1: get us to the front of the queue, I need
Speaker 1: to find a guy who doesn't mind elbowing children out
Speaker 1: of the way.
Speaker 2: We're forming a very specific guy at this time. I
Speaker 2: don't think that exists.
Speaker 4: After the break our best recommendations, including a very out
Speaker 4: loud gift guide from Holly and a very very helpful
Speaker 4: recommendation from m.
Speaker 1: One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
Speaker 1: and Thursday exclusively for Mamma MIAs subscribers. Follow the link
Speaker 1: in the show notes to get us in your ears
Speaker 1: five days a week. And a huge thank you to
Speaker 1: all our current subscribers, vibes, ideas, atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 5: This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 2: It is Friday, and we want to help set up
Speaker 2: your weekend with our very best recommendations. Holly.
Speaker 1: So I've got a very specific and slightly self serving
Speaker 1: recommendation because I'm recommending our gift guide of recommendations, oh,
Speaker 1: which is in the newsletter tomorrow. In exception, if you
Speaker 1: are a subscriber to the Holy out Loud newsletter tomorrow
Speaker 1: in your inbox, you're going to get the out Loud
Speaker 1: Gift Guide. And that's literally what it's called a very
Speaker 1: out Loud gift Guide. It's got gifts in it for
Speaker 1: everybody in your life. So it's got gifts for the
Speaker 1: m in your life. You've given me those ideas for
Speaker 1: the Jesse in your life. She's given me those ideas
Speaker 1: for the Miror in your life. She's given me what
Speaker 1: hers are. You can imagine, can't you. And then also
Speaker 1: a general excellence category, which is just really good gifts
Speaker 1: for people. Some of them are buy out louders, some
Speaker 1: of them are things out louders have recommended to us.
Speaker 1: Loads of books, like loads of books. So you're going
Speaker 1: to get that in your inbox if you subscribe to
Speaker 1: the Holy Outloud newsletter. There is a link in the
Speaker 1: show notes to do so, of course it's free. I'm
Speaker 1: going to give you one tip of one of the
Speaker 1: things that's in there. Actually I'm wearing the wrong.
Speaker 2: Shirt for this.
Speaker 1: I've got this, but I just bought it for a
Speaker 1: friend of mine. So this is a paperclip necklace from
Speaker 1: a brand called Francesca.
Speaker 3: I think you've got one around my rear bracelet.
Speaker 1: They're engraved and.
Speaker 4: It's engraved and it has Luna's birthday.
Speaker 1: So they are a paper clip necklace and that you
Speaker 1: can get a gold one, a silver one, a rose
Speaker 1: gold one, and so they're cool. But also mine has
Speaker 1: got the kids' names and mine and Brent's names on it.
Speaker 1: But it's really subtle, so it's like you can't quite
Speaker 1: see it. Yeah, I like that about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's called.
Speaker 1: The etched necklace from Francesca, and I have just bought
Speaker 1: one for a friend. I reckon it's a great gift
Speaker 1: for somebody. They're a business from Hobart, so we've got
Speaker 1: lots of ideas like that. Also, we've got the best
Speaker 1: beauty stuff. Of course, I've got some gardening thing, so
Speaker 1: Lincoln show notes for the Out Loud Gift Guide. That
Speaker 1: is my reco for this week.
Speaker 4: My recommendation is a book, and I've nearly finished one of.
Speaker 3: The buzziest books of the year.
Speaker 4: It's been called the best debut fiction book in forever.
Speaker 4: It is called The Names by Florence Napp. Have you
Speaker 4: read it yet?
Speaker 2: I haven't read it yet. I've heard so much about
Speaker 2: it to read it, although I've heard it's dark in
Speaker 2: the mood.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so i'd heard about it, but I had no
Speaker 4: idea of the premise, just that everyone who read it
Speaker 4: said it's brilliant, You've got to read it. And then
Speaker 4: I started it and Luca kept saying, are you okay?
Speaker 4: And I would just be sobbing in bed, like you
Speaker 4: know how a little life or there are certain books
Speaker 4: that catch you at a time in your life where
Speaker 4: it's like you've got to be in the headspace. It'll
Speaker 4: make you cry. It's really it's heavy. It's an emotional journey,
Speaker 4: but it is so original. The premise is basically it
Speaker 4: begins with a mother who is about to register the
Speaker 4: birth of her son and she's faced with this dilemma
Speaker 4: because in her husband's family, you name the son after
Speaker 4: the father, and her husband, as it turns out, is
Speaker 4: not a good man.
Speaker 3: He's a bad bad man.
Speaker 4: And so she's deciding whether to give him that name,
Speaker 4: give him a name she wants, or give him the
Speaker 4: name that her daughter wants for this little baby. And
Speaker 4: it follows the trajectory of the three lives. So what
Speaker 4: would happen if she chose this name, this name or
Speaker 4: this name?
Speaker 3: And it is just so.
Speaker 4: Clever and twist d I mean, ultimately it's hopeful, but
Speaker 4: it's about three versions of the same life.
Speaker 2: I love.
Speaker 3: It's really really good.
Speaker 2: What a crazy idea?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't read that in the holidays.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, really good.
Speaker 2: So my recommendation today F one. No, it's not my
Speaker 2: real recommendation. It's just like a PSA. The last F
Speaker 2: one race is going to be at twelve am on Monday,
Speaker 2: so we'll it's decent time for all of us. Abidabi
Speaker 2: the Orlando wins.
Speaker 3: Jess is in a great mood.
Speaker 1: Out loud as you may have missed last Fridays but
Speaker 1: and went on like a twenty minute rant about front
Speaker 1: No a lot of out louders.
Speaker 2: Were very on board, which I was so excited and.
Speaker 1: Some and then some of them were not. And then
Speaker 1: some of them got upset because I made a throwaway
Speaker 1: comment that I didn't think it was a sport. I
Speaker 1: take that back. I was being facetious. Of course it's
Speaker 1: a sport. You just don't use, you know, your athleticism
Speaker 1: to do it.
Speaker 3: Have you seen this.
Speaker 1: And the head and the neck? And they okay?
Speaker 2: So remember last week I said could be anyone's championship.
Speaker 2: It's still could be anyone's championship. Because in the last
Speaker 2: race at Qatar, I said, guitar last time, sorry Qatar.
Speaker 2: Max came first, Oscar came second, and Orlando came forth.
Speaker 2: McLaren really really stuffed up the team strategy. I think
Speaker 2: they were trying too hard to make it look like
Speaker 2: they weren't choosing favorites, and then they just said, actually,
Speaker 2: we hate them both. I don't want them to go Max.
Speaker 1: Some of the other commentary I saw was upset with you,
Speaker 1: Jesse for not backing the Aussie. Would you like to
Speaker 1: retract your support for Lando?
Speaker 4: And I'm pregnant and I find Lando very sexy on
Speaker 4: my eyes.
Speaker 2: Leave Jesse alone.
Speaker 4: But some people say, they said, look, I googled Lando,
Speaker 4: never heard of him. I think he looks a bit
Speaker 4: like Luca Local was stoked by it.
Speaker 3: I just he's very handsome.
Speaker 1: Micro compatibility. Do they have to like F one anyway?
Speaker 2: Yes, they do. Okay, So now this race, this last
Speaker 2: last race, if Lando Norris gets spots one, two or three,
Speaker 2: He's definitely going to be championship. For Max to win
Speaker 2: the championship, he has to come first and Lando has
Speaker 2: to come fourth. All later. Oh, I'm so excited. That's it.
Speaker 2: That's it. Okay, okay. So my next recommendation, my actual one,
Speaker 2: is this barmb I bought it here today. It's an
Speaker 2: anti chaf bomb by the brand Scoop. I walk to work.
Speaker 2: Everyone knows that I chase like a mom my thighs
Speaker 2: rubbed together, they read.
Speaker 1: I know it can get so sorry, it's so bad.
Speaker 2: And then I have to walk with my legs like
Speaker 2: far apart, like an elephant, like I'm stomping around the place.
Speaker 2: So this anti chaf barm I've used a lot in
Speaker 2: the past. This one's probably my favorite because it goes
Speaker 2: on and you can't feel the product on your legs.
Speaker 2: It doesn't feel sticky the longest time I used vaciline,
Speaker 2: which I mean, great all purpose product, but you still
Speaker 2: feel like the slimy and if it's hot, yeah, and
Speaker 2: that doesn't feel like that. It doesn't feel like that.
Speaker 2: It goes on and it just kind of feels like
Speaker 2: a little like cream and it goes balmy and then
Speaker 2: you stop feeling it and your legs just slide.
Speaker 4: Ah.
Speaker 1: It is so do you get it from them?
Speaker 2: Get out of Door Beauty. It's around twenty five bucks.
Speaker 1: Of course. Good.
Speaker 3: It's such a good idea.
Speaker 1: Great recco friends. That is all we have Loud allowed,
Speaker 1: that is all we have time for today. Remember, of
Speaker 1: course you can watch us on YouTube. You would have
Speaker 1: just seen them do a very good yay. Yeah like here.
Speaker 1: It is representation of shaping Spotify. Wrapt is out. It's
Speaker 1: a big day. It takes over the culture for twenty
Speaker 1: four hours. Yeah, and we need to thank all the
Speaker 1: out louders who said that we were their favorite show.
Speaker 1: Well didn't say it was evidenced in their phone.
Speaker 3: They are favorite people. And look, we don't take it
Speaker 3: for granted. We are so honored.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for everyone who tagged us and
Speaker 4: let us know when everyone who listened and laughed and
Speaker 4: argued along with us and engaged. It is the greatest
Speaker 4: privilege being a part of your day. And we are
Speaker 4: cooking up some more fun, lots of surprises.
Speaker 1: Big things for twenty twenty six. If we were on
Speaker 1: your Spotify wrap list, of course, we'd love it if
Speaker 1: you shared it told everyone else, because what better badge
Speaker 1: of honor than to tell everyone you're a out louder.
Speaker 3: Exactly right, Jesse, Oh, tell them about the book club.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So last week we dropped the first episode of
Speaker 4: our summer book Club series in partnership with Royal Caribbean.
Speaker 4: It was about Miranda July's All Fours. We got such
Speaker 4: great feedback, a lot of people who hadn't even read
Speaker 4: the book but.
Speaker 3: Just waited the book.
Speaker 4: I hated the book, and we're very interested to hear
Speaker 4: our candid commentary. The second book coming up is Great, Big,
Speaker 4: Beautiful Life by Emily Henry. Holly and I have never
Speaker 4: read an Emily Henry book.
Speaker 2: I read two Emily Henry's books, I read Funny Story
Speaker 2: and Happy Place. I love romantic tropes. However, I heard
Speaker 2: this book is a bit different to her usual books.
Speaker 2: It's less trophy. Okay, we're still romance.
Speaker 4: But so that's going to be our next Summer Book
Speaker 4: Club EP. It is dropping on the twenty eighth of December,
Speaker 4: so if you want to be a part of it,
Speaker 4: make sure you start reading and meet us there. Thank
Speaker 4: you to our team for helping us put this show together.
Speaker 4: Group executive producer Ruth Devine, Executive producer Sashatanic.
Speaker 2: Our senior audio producer is Leah Porge's, our video producer
Speaker 2: is Josh Green, and our junior content producer is Tessa Kodovic.
Speaker 1: We'll see you on Monday. Bye bye bye, Mama. Mia
Speaker 1: acknowledges the traditional owners of the land on which we've
Speaker 1: recorded this podcast.