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Speaker 1: So you're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. Mamma mea

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Speaker 1: acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this

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Speaker 1: podcast is recorded on.

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Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Taylor Strano. This is Mamma Mer's twice daily

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Speaker 2: news podcast, The Quickie. If you've watched Netflix's new series Adolescence,

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Speaker 2: you've probably been left with the same gut wrenching question

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Speaker 2: I have. What the hell are we supposed to do

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Speaker 2: about all of this?

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Speaker 3: Jamie? If you do not sit up fucking worry, do.

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Speaker 1: Not tell me where to say? Don you do not

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Speaker 1: control why look.

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Speaker 3: At me now?

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Speaker 2: It shows us just how early young boys are being

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Speaker 2: exposed to dangerous online ideologies. But knowing the problem exists

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Speaker 2: isn't enough anymore. We need solutions before we get there.

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Speaker 2: Here's Clere Murphy with the latest from The Quickie newsroom

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Speaker 2: for Wednesday, April.

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Speaker 1: Two, Thanks Taylor. The US Attorney General has ordered prosecutors

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Speaker 1: to seek the death penalty for Luigi Mangioni, the man

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Speaker 1: accused of murdering health insurance CEO Brian Thompson. Mangioni lay

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Speaker 1: in wait for Thompson, who was attending a conference in

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Speaker 1: New York in December stepping out from behind a parked

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Speaker 1: car and allegedly shooting him before fleeing the scene and

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Speaker 1: going on the run. Federal prosecutors have charged Mangioni with

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Speaker 1: murder using a firearm, the US Attorney General Pam Bondi,

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Speaker 1: saying after careful consideration, she's directed them to seek the

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Speaker 1: death penalty as they continue to carry out President Trump's

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Speaker 1: agenda to stop violent crime and make Americas safe again.

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Speaker 1: Mister Mangioni has pleaded not guilty to separate murder and

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Speaker 1: terrorism charges in the state of New York. He's yet

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Speaker 1: to enter a plea for the federal case, which is

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Speaker 1: expected to be tried after the States still in the

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Speaker 1: US and the Trump administration is considering placing a twenty

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Speaker 1: percent tariff on nearly all goods entering the United States.

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Speaker 1: Trump has been marking April I as Liberation Day, where

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Speaker 1: he's expected to announce the new range of tariffs that

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Speaker 1: could upend the global trade system, saying on Sunday that

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Speaker 1: they will tie at all countries that impose duties on

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Speaker 1: US goods and that any country that has treated the

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Speaker 1: US unfairly should expect to receive tariffs. This includes Australia

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Speaker 1: with a list of complaints already issued over duties placed

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Speaker 1: on US beef, pork, poultry, drugs, social media and local

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Speaker 1: content streaming rules. Prime Minister Anthony Alberonizi says none of

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Speaker 1: the grievances listed by US trade officials are up for negotiation,

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Speaker 1: saying the idea that we would weaken biosecurity laws is

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Speaker 1: like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Opposition

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Speaker 1: leader Peter Dutton back to the PM, saying he agrees

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Speaker 1: with his position and that he also would not compromise

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Speaker 1: issues of national significance and importance. The victims of conwoman

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Speaker 1: Melissa Kaddeka clawing back some of their losses settling a

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Speaker 1: class action lawsuit against her auditors. They've already been repaid

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Speaker 1: seven point twenty five million of the lost twenty three

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Speaker 1: million dollars after they sold off her assets in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three and twenty twenty four, Federal Court Justice bridget

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Speaker 1: Markovich green lawe citing a further three point five million

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Speaker 1: to be paid out in the settlement. The thirty two

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Speaker 1: investors also launched a class action seeking damages from five

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Speaker 1: firms who Auditedkadock's accounts between twenty twelve and twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: claiming they failed to identify fraudulent documents or identify if

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Speaker 1: the shares Cadok claimed were being held in the victim's

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Speaker 1: self managed superfunds, ever existed. Kadok took millions from family

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Speaker 1: and friends via the investment scam to fund her luxurious lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: The forty nine year old then went missing in November

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty, days after her home was raided by ASEIC

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Speaker 1: agents investigating the ponzi scheme. She was declared deceased in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three after her foot washed up on a

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Speaker 1: Sydney beach.

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Speaker 2: One of the.

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Speaker 1: Lawsuits accusing Sean Diddy Combs of sexual assault has been

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Speaker 1: dismissed because the anonymous plaintiff refused to refa the complaint

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Speaker 1: under her real name. The woman known as Jane Doe

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Speaker 1: accused Combs of assaulting her at a party in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety five. The court denied her motion to proceed anonymously.

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Speaker 1: Her to file under her real name, all the case

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Speaker 1: would be dismissed. Combs's legal team has praised the decision,

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Speaker 1: saying they've been fielding case after case filed by individuals

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Speaker 1: hiding behind anonymity, pushed by attorneys they say are more

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Speaker 1: focused on media headlines than legal merit. This is the

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Speaker 1: second case brought against Combs that has been dismissed, his

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Speaker 1: attorneys saying it won't be the last, as he faces

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Speaker 1: dozens of lawsuits claiming abuse over decades of the music mogul,

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Speaker 1: allegedly using his influence in the industry to abuse hopeful

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Speaker 1: young artists and those in his orbit.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Claire Next, answering the question adolescence asks, like everyone else,

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Speaker 2: I've been watching Adolescents on Netflix and I can't stop

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Speaker 2: thinking about it. The four part series paints a confronting

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Speaker 2: picture of how young boys are being exposed to in

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Speaker 2: cell ideology and extreme content online. In CEL short for

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Speaker 2: involuntary celibate, is a belief system where individ uels, mostly men,

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Speaker 2: feel entitled to sex or romantic relationships, but blame women

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Speaker 2: and society for their lack of success. It often involves

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Speaker 2: toxic views on gender roles and resentment towards women, fueling

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Speaker 2: a cycle of frustration, isolation, and in extreme cases, violence.

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Speaker 2: It's the kind of thing that keeps you up at night,

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Speaker 2: especially if you're a parent. And even if you're not.

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Speaker 2: I don't have kids, but I am genuinely worried about

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Speaker 2: the world we're creating and how one makes the choice

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Speaker 2: to bring kids into that world when there's a chance

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Speaker 2: they'll fall victim to incell culture, regardless of how good

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Speaker 2: a job you do as a parent. We're seeing boys

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Speaker 2: as young as nine or ten stumbling across red pill content,

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Speaker 2: getting sucked into echo chambers of toxic masculinity and becoming

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Speaker 2: increasingly isolated from the real world. And the scariest part,

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Speaker 2: many parents don't even know it's happening. Their kids might

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Speaker 2: be watching gaming videos one minute and the next they're

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Speaker 2: being fed increasingly extreme content through Olgarie. But here's the thing, Well,

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Speaker 2: adolescence does an excellent job of highlighting the problem. It

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Speaker 2: leaves us with a burning question, what can we actually

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Speaker 2: do about it? Simoone Hang is a human connection specialist

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Speaker 2: and best selling author of Let's Talk About Loneliness. She's

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Speaker 2: been researching this exact issue. Simon, what were your initial

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Speaker 2: thoughts when you watched adolescents?

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Speaker 3: So it's so funny. I was like, Yes, this is

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Speaker 3: everything I've been studying and reading about and talking about

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Speaker 3: on stages but now they've narrativized it and it's gone mainstream.

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Speaker 3: So the sad thing was it didn't shock me, but

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Speaker 3: it should. But I'm the auntie to twenty five children

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Speaker 3: around the world, and I got calls and messages from

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Speaker 3: the parents of all of my friends around this. What's

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Speaker 3: interesting is all of these studies and these books, and

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Speaker 3: of course my speeches and stuff, they're not going to

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Speaker 3: the demographic that needs to see this, And so I

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Speaker 3: thought adolescence is wonderful because it's actually hitting the demographic

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Speaker 3: of busy mums, busy dads who get to sit down

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Speaker 3: and watch this in a really easy and palatable and

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Speaker 3: efficient way.

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Speaker 2: So this is obviously an extreme case scenario. Not every

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Speaker 2: child or boy particularly who falls into these viewing habits

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Speaker 2: or these situations or subcultures is necessarily going to end

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Speaker 2: up allegedly stabbing a classmate to death. It is an

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Speaker 2: extreme case. But it also is really interesting that it

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Speaker 2: focuses on young boys. Why are they in particular maybe

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Speaker 2: more vulnerable to this kind of online radicalization.

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Speaker 3: Well, you've got to look at the different ways we

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Speaker 3: are taught as genders to connect. For example, women are

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Speaker 3: very vulnerable with their inner circle of intimate connections. We

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Speaker 3: share things that hurt us, we share quite deeply, and

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Speaker 3: the studies show that men connection is more shallow and wide.

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Speaker 3: So they'll have friends, but they don't disclose what could

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Speaker 3: be hurting them, but certainly not going to say I

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Speaker 3: feel lonely and unattractive and isolated, as we find out

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Speaker 3: with this young boy in the series. So I think

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Speaker 3: this lack of vulnerability with their peers because of these

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Speaker 3: toxic masculine ideas make young boys specifically vulnerable and more

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Speaker 3: lonely during certain points of adolescence maybe than girls.

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Speaker 2: Why is it that boys maybe struggle to express their

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Speaker 2: emotions more than.

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Speaker 3: Girls generally men have just been conditioned. And I guess

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Speaker 3: we could make a leap to how we evolved in tribes.

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Speaker 3: Most of the ways that we connect with each other

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Speaker 3: came back to that time when we were trying to

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Speaker 3: survive on the savannah as hunter gatherers. And I guess

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Speaker 3: that the alpha male in the tribe, which is what

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Speaker 3: the other men emulated to become, were able to reduce

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Speaker 3: the appearance of fear in a challenge. That's how they

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Speaker 3: became the alpha males. There's this saying the most powerful

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Speaker 3: person in the room is the person with the most

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Speaker 3: calm breath. So the alpha male had the ability to

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Speaker 3: not show fear and therefore survived in conflict and rose

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Speaker 3: to the top of the tribe. So I guess, if

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Speaker 3: I wanted to make a really big extrapolation, that could

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Speaker 3: be where this idea of not being vulnerable with your

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Speaker 3: peers has come from.

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Speaker 2: So then what are some of the risks when boys

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Speaker 2: choose to seek that connection or that community online as

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Speaker 2: opposed to in their actual inner circle with their family

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Speaker 2: and their schoolmates in the schoolyard.

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Speaker 3: I think for both genders, you go to high school

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Speaker 3: with forming our social identity and it can be very,

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Speaker 3: very triggering. And let's then add to this a generation

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Speaker 3: where because of the use of the Internet and what

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Speaker 3: is called asynchronous communication, that's basically where two people do

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Speaker 3: not have to be present at the same time. So

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Speaker 3: it's a generation where conflict is very, very uncomfortable. Let's

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Speaker 3: add on to the fact that you're learning who you are,

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Speaker 3: You're getting bullied, you're being teased, there's all this online trolling,

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Speaker 3: there's all these chat rooms, there's all these new ways

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Speaker 3: to be ostracized, social rejection, for human beings is one

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Speaker 3: of our worst fears, Simon.

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Speaker 2: As I kept watching Adolescents, something kept steaking with me,

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Speaker 2: which is, well, what are we supposed to do about it?

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Speaker 2: I feel like I was just being suffocated by this

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Speaker 2: dread and this foreboding as the episodes kept moving through

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Speaker 2: hour by hour. And the conversation that I've been having

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Speaker 2: with a lot of people recently is that question of,

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Speaker 2: well what now? The show didn't really wrap it up

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Speaker 2: in a nice, neat little package because.

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Speaker 3: That's not all right.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's not how life works, and I'm very willing

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Speaker 2: to admit that, but it doesn't actually help address the

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Speaker 2: issue that parents out there are facing. So say, if

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Speaker 2: a parent has just discovered that their kid is engaging

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Speaker 2: with this sort of stuff online, something tells me to

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Speaker 2: throw their phone away and lock them in their bedroom forever.

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Speaker 2: Isn't the right thing to do? What kind of advice

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Speaker 2: or what kind of things would you say? Are the

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Speaker 2: answers here?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? So, number one, technology we know is not going

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Speaker 3: anywhere young kids addiction to devices are always going to

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Speaker 3: be higher when they are lonely. That makes them more vulnerable.

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Speaker 3: So using technology as the way station, not for destination.

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Speaker 3: Can the parents look at where they can make sure

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Speaker 3: their child is actually having an in person interaction based

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Speaker 3: off connecting online and make sure that that's a positive interaction.

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Speaker 3: I know that's really really difficult to do. I watch

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Speaker 3: a lot of my friends struggle with their own kids

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Speaker 3: and this issue. I think it is about being more

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Speaker 3: invasive sometimes with exactly as you saw the father saying

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Speaker 3: in the last episode, it's almost like impossible to be

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Speaker 3: on them all the time, but maybe we could have.

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Speaker 3: I grew up in the Asian parenting system where the

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Speaker 3: term helicopter parent would be an understatement. We were surveiled.

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Speaker 3: Things are very invasive, but I think it has some

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Speaker 3: benefits watching what the interactions are, having a look at

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Speaker 3: is my child getting in person interactions and are these

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Speaker 3: positively polarized interactions. Secondly, the parent also needs to have

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Speaker 3: their own boundaries. We put our own phones away in

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Speaker 3: the presence of the child because the child is going

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Speaker 3: to be mirroring the parents' behavior. So if you are

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Speaker 3: out with the kids, you just default to looking down

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Speaker 3: the phone. You're just modeling to the kid that technology

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Speaker 3: use paramount over in person connection, and it's connection that

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Speaker 3: satiates us. We do get a little bit of dopamine

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Speaker 3: off social media, off the Internet, but it's like the

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Speaker 3: junk food equivalent of real life human connection. It doesn't

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Speaker 3: give us the long term well being boosts, and we

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Speaker 3: need to insulate them from loneliness. Loneliness is what is

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Speaker 3: the foundation for the addiction to the devices. So making

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Speaker 3: sure they're socially well connected, monitoring the youth and having

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Speaker 3: your own boundaries that they can see modeled for where

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Speaker 3: the phone comes out and when you yourself retreat to

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Speaker 3: your own devices in your room and close the door.

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Speaker 3: As a parent, so there are quite a lot.

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Speaker 2: Of parents in my life who've just straight out and

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Speaker 2: told me I won't be watching adolescents. I can't do that.

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Speaker 2: It's too painful. I've got kids, it's too close to home.

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Speaker 2: What do you say to that.

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Speaker 3: I guess adolescence triggers this kind of state of the

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Speaker 3: world conversation To those parents, Okay, if you don't want

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Speaker 3: to watch adolescents, I highly recommend Jonathan Heit's book it's

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Speaker 3: called The Anxious Generation. It will allow them to read

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Speaker 3: about what's happening in a less emotionally triggering way. Then

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Speaker 3: watching adolescents, because I don't think denial is the answer.

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Speaker 3: Technology is not going to be removed. It's only going

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Speaker 3: to increase, and with that increase means easier access to

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Speaker 3: these subcultures in these different places where adolescent boys and

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Speaker 3: girls are looking for belonging online and if you're super

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Speaker 3: busy you have hard to read. Put the audiobook on

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Speaker 3: in the car as you drive. But it's absolutely like

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Speaker 3: essential knowledge for parent in the year twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Five, Simon. Finally, on the flip side of that conversation,

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Speaker 2: people who aren't parents and are consuming things like adolescents,

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Speaker 2: myself included. I've been having another conversation parallel to this discussion,

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Speaker 2: which is really struggling after watching adolescence with the fact

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Speaker 2: that if I have a kid, this could be my reality,

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Speaker 2: regardless of how good a job you do as a parent. Oh,

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Speaker 2: is there hope for us still? Like, is this something

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Speaker 2: that isn't actually as big a deal as things like

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Speaker 2: adolescents making out to be, or is it just now

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Speaker 2: that we have to go into those big life choices

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Speaker 2: armed with the knowledge of this could happen and this

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Speaker 2: is how you deal with it.

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Speaker 3: I feel more hopeful for you because I feel the

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Speaker 3: technology divide between by the time you have kids and

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Speaker 3: your child is a teenager will not be as big

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Speaker 3: as it is for my generation some forty one this year.

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Speaker 3: We are the last generation to have had an analog childhood,

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Speaker 3: So our gap between being able to monitor our teenage kids'

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Speaker 3: use of technology is very wide because we were later adopters.

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Speaker 3: We weren't born with devices, Whereas I feel maybe by

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Speaker 3: the time you are the parent of a teenager, you're

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Speaker 3: going to be just as web fluent as they are,

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Speaker 3: and then your ability to understand what's going on. I mean,

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Speaker 3: there's that scene in episode one, I think where the

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Speaker 3: father is being explained to the colors of the emojis

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Speaker 3: by their child and the secret in cell language that

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Speaker 3: the father has no idea about in the subculture. And

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Speaker 3: that's quite possibly because the gap between that parent and

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Speaker 3: that child was very huge. I think maybe if you're

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Speaker 3: one of the generations that were born with devices, you're

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Speaker 3: going to be more easily in the loop of what

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Speaker 3: they're doing than maybe someone like me my age.

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Speaker 2: So mine, you've answered my questions and you've put my

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Speaker 2: anxieties at rest a little bit there.

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Speaker 3: I still think We're living in a beautiful world, but

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Speaker 3: I'm a real realist about it, and we need to

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Speaker 3: raise children and villages like I'm a super hands on

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Speaker 3: Auntie because I feel with all of the bombardment of

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Speaker 3: these new technologies and these new subcultures that can become

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Speaker 3: available when kids are vulnerable and lonely like that, we

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Speaker 3: need the village because maybe your teenage kid tells Auntie

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Speaker 3: something that they're not going to tell their direct parents,

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Speaker 3: and so we need to come together in community and

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Speaker 3: villages and help raise our kids.

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Speaker 2: I know so many cool aunties that I told so

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Speaker 2: many things too I would never tell my parents exactly.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for taking some time to feed your mind with

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Speaker 2: us today. Hey, if you've got more questions about the

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Speaker 2: wild and wonderful world of parenting, why is it just

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Speaker 2: chicking out this glorious mess. With Analys Todd and Tigan Natoli,

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Speaker 2: they talk all about the village and everything that goes

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Speaker 2: into raising your small humans. There'll be a link in

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Speaker 2: our show notes. The Quikie is produced by me Taylor

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Speaker 2: Strano and Claire Murphy, with audio production by Lou Hill.