Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3: And then he just loves a purse, which is fine
Speaker 3: off the carpet. He just liked pretty girls and nightclubs. Anyway,
Speaker 3: we digress.
Speaker 1: Did you just call Carly gener a purse?
Speaker 3: She's been carrying around a little channel purse like that's
Speaker 3: he Yeah, he dresses very interestingly. You don't hear the
Speaker 3: word purse very attie, and he loves that. Hello and
Speaker 3: welcome to Mama Mia out loud and to our Friday show.
Speaker 3: If you're having a little hyperventilate every time you see
Speaker 3: a headline pop up on your phone, We've got you.
Speaker 3: Today is a news free zone. It's Friday, the seventh
Speaker 3: of February, and I'm Holly Waynewright, I'm Meya Friedman.
Speaker 2: And I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 3: And on the show today, is it ever okay to
Speaker 3: just work all the time? And a new Australian TV show,
Speaker 3: a new classic American comedy and a big Oscar movie
Speaker 3: for you to binge on the weekend. It's our recommendations
Speaker 3: and our best and worst of the week include Meer's boobs.
Speaker 3: I'm not telling you whether they're best or worst. You'll
Speaker 3: have to wait and see which Mabby went eachell into,
Speaker 3: a scone related dethroning and a shock consolation. But first Mia,
Speaker 3: in case.
Speaker 4: You missed it, suns out, buns out. If you've been
Speaker 4: anywhere near a body of water or sand over the
Speaker 4: last few summers, you would have noticed a lot of
Speaker 4: bear bums, mostly belonging to young girls wearing G string swimmers,
Speaker 4: and this has caused mixed feelings in the community. I
Speaker 4: think it would be safe to say some are celebrating
Speaker 4: the body confidence of a new generation. They're very body confident,
Speaker 4: happy to get their bum out. We were trying to
Speaker 4: hide our bums. But others are insisting that they should
Speaker 4: be banned, these g strings and indeed these naked bottoms,
Speaker 4: and one local council.
Speaker 1: Has done just that.
Speaker 4: Last week, the Blue Mountain City Council in New South
Speaker 4: Wales announced a ban on all G string swimmers at
Speaker 4: its public pool in the city. Critics argue that the
Speaker 4: band infringes on personal choice and bodily autonomy, and is
Speaker 4: about telling women what they can and can't wear, which
Speaker 4: is a big step backwards, but supporters claim that it
Speaker 4: maintains a family friendly environment in public.
Speaker 2: You can set your watch to this debate. Yes, I
Speaker 2: reckon this time next year we'll be having the same
Speaker 2: argument because it is so predictable. This time last year
Speaker 2: there was an open letter that was written by a
Speaker 2: man who basically said, I don't want to be walking
Speaker 2: down the street with your bum in front of me.
Speaker 2: I don't know where to look. And now it's come
Speaker 2: for public pools. Like when we talked about this last year,
Speaker 2: I just went, we don't seem to be able to
Speaker 2: understand how socially and culturally conditioned we are to see
Speaker 2: certain things as sexualized in the same way that an
Speaker 2: ankle was sexualized in Victorian okeran.
Speaker 1: Are you saying that bums aren't sexual?
Speaker 2: There are countries people have been wearing g string bikinis
Speaker 2: for thirty years and everyone's fine with it. There are
Speaker 2: some cultures where you walk around with that your top.
Speaker 3: Of your bum does other things than sex.
Speaker 1: But given that we are not that.
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know when a culture starts, you
Speaker 4: know what I mean, I don't know when you.
Speaker 3: When you evolve, doesn't it evolves all the time.
Speaker 1: I don't hate this. I don't hate this bad.
Speaker 2: I reckon that if you are a private business, you
Speaker 2: get to decide guidelines about what people wear. If you
Speaker 2: go to a golf course, who.
Speaker 4: Has priority the person who wants to get their bum
Speaker 4: out or the people who are uncomfortable seeing the bum?
Speaker 3: If you have a right to be comfortable at all times.
Speaker 4: So how is it how is it different to boobs
Speaker 4: you just said, Jesse, there are countries where boobs are fine.
Speaker 4: People are very topless at the beach. They're very comfortable
Speaker 4: with that. So should we just do that too.
Speaker 2: I think we actually have legal guidelines when it comes
Speaker 2: to public nudity, and so there are for example, you
Speaker 2: can't walk around without pants on.
Speaker 1: Do you mean we'd like no under.
Speaker 2: With no undies on? Yeah, you can't do that unless
Speaker 2: you sorry, then that is out. But you are, as
Speaker 2: it stands, allowed to walk around in a thong bikini.
Speaker 2: And I think that this is funny when we consider
Speaker 2: that men have been walking around in budget smugglers and
Speaker 2: we've not had any issue with it. So it's women's
Speaker 2: bodies that are always more policed.
Speaker 3: And it's also interesting because this particular ruling in the
Speaker 3: Blue Mountains city area. Public pools are a big deal
Speaker 3: if you live Inland, if you don't live anywhere near
Speaker 3: the coast, if you live regionally, the place you swim,
Speaker 3: unless you're rich enough to have your own pool is
Speaker 3: the public pool. And so it's a melting pot, right.
Speaker 3: You've got all different cultures, You've got people of all
Speaker 3: different ages, You've got people of all different backgrounds and
Speaker 3: all different persuasions. And in a way, any public space
Speaker 3: like that is a tolerance tester, right, Like, how comfortable
Speaker 3: are we to all rub up against each other sometimes
Speaker 3: literally in the public pool and each other's standards. MEA
Speaker 3: might be there who thinks that all bombs are a
Speaker 3: sexual Come on, is that what you think? Do you
Speaker 3: have a particular lineous the bar?
Speaker 2: What are you allowed to have a little bit of
Speaker 2: check or no cheek shots perhaps or pens?
Speaker 4: I find it challenging not to look at myself, but
Speaker 4: this idea of because like, if you're wearing a g string,
Speaker 4: are you wearing it so that the people to appear.
Speaker 3: To be honest? The reason you're wearing it is because
Speaker 3: it's in fashion. Like literally, as you said in your
Speaker 3: intro in the last few years, suddenly it's everywhere, and
Speaker 3: it's interesting. Where I live, I don't see as many
Speaker 3: g strings. But I was in Sydney last weekend and
Speaker 3: I'm at the beaches I used to live at, and
Speaker 3: it's the only swimmers you see on young women, and
Speaker 3: it's because it's in fashion. I don't actually think they're
Speaker 3: thinking very much about what it means, what it's strategy.
Speaker 4: I think it's more flattering, and I think that I
Speaker 4: have this conversation with my daughter all the time. She
Speaker 4: thinks that it's more I mean, I'm completely used to
Speaker 4: it now, but she thinks it's more flattering, and she
Speaker 4: thinks that me with my covered up bottoms, that it
Speaker 4: looks terrible and it just looks really awful. And I
Speaker 4: can see to her, I like my eyes become accustomed
Speaker 4: to it. But like where like on the beach is fine.
Speaker 4: I've told this story before when we've been away at
Speaker 4: a resort and then the girls are like that and
Speaker 4: the beach and swimming, that's fine. But then you come
Speaker 4: into the restaurant and you walk.
Speaker 1: Back to your room on the road. What does your productimity,
Speaker 1: what does your proximity.
Speaker 4: Need to be to water to have to put your
Speaker 4: bum away and also to not be in your budgies
Speaker 4: like I don't.
Speaker 3: Think you have.
Speaker 1: I don't know away.
Speaker 2: I think it's fine. I think that if you can
Speaker 2: smell sea water or any water, anybody of chlorine chlorine.
Speaker 4: So not at the supermarket, not at the shops.
Speaker 2: It depends on when you get Is it okay to
Speaker 2: work all the time? This week Mother and Maya launched
Speaker 2: a brand new podcast called biz and it is all
Speaker 2: about rewriting the rules of work for a new generation.
Speaker 2: It interrogates what your work life is actually meant look like.
Speaker 2: And this is the question that I've been pondering for months.
Speaker 2: Over the summer, I listened to an interview on search
Speaker 2: Engine where they spoke to Ira Glass, the host and
Speaker 2: producer of This American Life, which is one of the
Speaker 2: biggest radio and podcast shows ever made. It asked the
Speaker 2: question that inspired this segment, is it okay to work
Speaker 2: all the time? The only word we have for someone
Speaker 2: who prioritizes work is a workaholic, And the implication is
Speaker 2: that it is a narrow, somewhat sad way to live
Speaker 2: your life. But if I had to summarize it, and
Speaker 2: unhealthy and unhealthy.
Speaker 4: And as a result of an addiction paslogic some problem.
Speaker 2: Glass kind of says in this episode, Yeah, it's okay
Speaker 2: to work all the time if you love it, if
Speaker 2: you believe in it, working all the time can be
Speaker 2: enormously fulfilling. And does he think he would have got
Speaker 2: to where he is without putting in eighty plus hour weeks.
Speaker 2: Probably not. We have a cover story on Muma Mia
Speaker 2: this week about the death of the girl Boss. One
Speaker 2: of the hosts of Beers, Michelle Battersby, is on TikTok
Speaker 2: talking about revenge, quitting the buzzwords when it comes to work,
Speaker 2: a flexibility and work life balance, and how to avoid burnout.
Speaker 2: So is there something pathological about wanting to work all
Speaker 2: the time? Maya? You have deep seated issues, does this
Speaker 2: resonate with you?
Speaker 4: I was really interested when you sent me a link
Speaker 4: to that podcast until I listened more.
Speaker 1: And I really.
Speaker 4: Respect the two podcasters, PJ Vote who's the host, and
Speaker 4: of course Ara Glass, who's iconic in the podcasting and
Speaker 4: journalism world. I was really interested in them both talking
Speaker 4: about how much they love to work and if it's
Speaker 4: okay to work all the time, until I learned that
Speaker 4: neither of them have children and they're both single.
Speaker 2: Actually, that was actually where he was starting from, was
Speaker 2: that he's at a threshold in his life where he's going,
Speaker 2: do I don't tie? And is it okay to dedicate
Speaker 2: a life to work like that was sort of part
Speaker 2: of the philosophical drive for the episode.
Speaker 4: I think the first thing to say is that, my goodness,
Speaker 4: what a privileged conversation to have, because we're talking about
Speaker 4: is it okay to work all the time because you
Speaker 4: want it? Versus is it okay to work all the
Speaker 4: time because you need to to keep a roof over
Speaker 4: your head, or pay single parents because you don't have
Speaker 4: health insurance and you've got medical bills to pay. So
Speaker 4: I think for most people who work more than they
Speaker 4: want to, it's not about some existential choice. Right. Having
Speaker 4: said that, we are talking about this idea of it's
Speaker 4: so interesting in Beers this generation, and m does it
Speaker 4: so well on the show, is their boundaries. So while
Speaker 4: perhaps a generation ago we fetishized working around the clock
Speaker 4: and back in my dome, we slept in the office
Speaker 4: and we worked all blah blah, and we just did
Speaker 4: what it took and blah blah, it's now very uncool
Speaker 4: to be that. It's now much more cool to be
Speaker 4: m Vernon's vibe, which is I'm really ambitious, but I
Speaker 4: want to do it in the least amount of possible time.
Speaker 1: I'm also really lazy. I don't love work that.
Speaker 4: Much, but I do want to be successful. Like it's
Speaker 4: saying all the quiet parts out loud and feeling like
Speaker 4: you it have to perhaps try as hard. And I
Speaker 4: think that there's a generation of us who are like, wait,
Speaker 4: is that an option? I don't know how to do that.
Speaker 2: The way that PJ sets up this episode is that
Speaker 2: he overheard a conversation between a man in his twenties
Speaker 2: and a man in his fifties, and the man in
Speaker 2: his twenties said, I love working. It makes me feel alive.
Speaker 2: It is my whole purpose, is all I want to do,
Speaker 2: and the man in his fifties sort of looked at
Speaker 2: him and went, that'll change. And the implication was that
Speaker 2: as you get older, as you get wiser, your relationship
Speaker 2: with work evolves because you realize that it's not the
Speaker 2: most important thing. Has that been your experience.
Speaker 3: It's really tricky because I think that even just work
Speaker 3: it means lots of different things. To lots of different
Speaker 3: people because you're right Mayor about that the grind is
Speaker 3: out of fashion. But that's also because in a very
Speaker 3: self focused culture, the vibe is, why would I kill
Speaker 3: myself for you? I don't mean you literally, yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean my box?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: Then why would I put in overtime? I've never seen
Speaker 3: my children, never get to go to my mum's birthday,
Speaker 3: miss my best friend's you know, engagement party, so that
Speaker 3: my boss likes me more like, I think that in
Speaker 3: a more self focused culture, they're like what they want,
Speaker 3: a much clearer idea of what this exchange is, like
Speaker 3: what do I need to do to get what I need?
Speaker 3: And maybe they're still into the hustle if it just
Speaker 3: benefits them, do you know what I mean? Because I
Speaker 3: think that that's part of this cultural shit. I think
Speaker 3: whereas what me is talking about about the gen X
Speaker 3: work culture, and I think this is particularly true probably
Speaker 3: of women, because if you think about how hard many
Speaker 3: many women had to work to prove themselves in traditional industries.
Speaker 3: It was like, can I go above and beyond? I
Speaker 3: need to be better than everybody. I will stay that
Speaker 3: extra two hours, I will come in early. It was
Speaker 3: like a striving that maybe the culture underneath has looked
Speaker 3: at and gone. But what did you get for that?
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: What did you really get for that?
Speaker 2: You said it was self focused, which is part of it,
Speaker 2: But I also think it's being very sensitive to exploitation.
Speaker 2: And we've probably had a generation where some workers did
Speaker 2: feel exploited, or there's a generation I think COVID was
Speaker 2: also a moment where people were laid off, they lost
Speaker 2: their jobs for this thing that they gave everything too,
Speaker 2: and then the workplace turned around didn't love you back.
Speaker 2: And you have the workplace some workplaces where you go, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm working around the clock for something that isn't giving
Speaker 2: me what I'm giving it, which I think is somewhat
Speaker 2: of a workplace revolution.
Speaker 3: So I think all that goes into the pot and
Speaker 3: mixes up and sort of comes out in this realignment
Speaker 3: we're having. But in terms of that thing about age,
Speaker 3: I think it's more about priorities, right because to me
Speaker 3: A's point at the beginning that if you're working to
Speaker 3: put a roof over your head and food on the table,
Speaker 3: and so you're taking on extra shifts to do that,
Speaker 3: and maybe you're a single parent and maybe you know
Speaker 3: then that's like the bare necessities. But then if you've
Speaker 3: established that, then the choice becomes what is the payoff
Speaker 3: between the amount of work I'll do to get more
Speaker 3: and what it will take from me? Because I think,
Speaker 3: of course it's okay to work all the time, but
Speaker 3: you've got to expect that that'll cost you elsewhere. Like
Speaker 3: any arrangement in your life, you'll put in and you'll
Speaker 3: have to sacrifice something for it.
Speaker 4: I also found it a really unsatisfying conversation because it
Speaker 4: was between two men. Not only do they not have
Speaker 4: dependence that they spoke of in the form of children,
Speaker 4: but they also were men. So the culture and what
Speaker 4: we internalize around women and work is very, very different.
Speaker 4: It's why I always think about actresses like Angelina, Julie
Speaker 4: and Nicole Kidman. They always have to talk about I
Speaker 4: work to help other people. I do these roles for
Speaker 4: my daughters, I do these roles for my mother. It's like,
Speaker 4: do you actually Because it's so forbidden for a woman.
Speaker 1: To say, I bloody love work.
Speaker 4: And that's not to say we don't feel conflicted and
Speaker 4: we have to find ways to justify. But Nico doesn't
Speaker 4: have to do shit that she doesn't want to. She
Speaker 4: works a ton, and yet she still has to perform
Speaker 4: this pantomime of it's not because I enjoy it, it's selfless.
Speaker 2: There has to be something moral about your ambitions.
Speaker 3: We talked about this once when I was saying how
Speaker 3: uncomfortable it makes me in my life when the narrative
Speaker 3: that Brent will tell the kids if I'm not around
Speaker 3: is Mummy's working really hard for us, right, And I
Speaker 3: entirely understand why he says that, and it's true I am,
Speaker 3: But is that the only reason, Like, could I not
Speaker 3: similar outcome that we would have food on the table
Speaker 3: and we would make the mortgage payments and I could
Speaker 3: be home a bit more. Yes, if the only fact,
Speaker 3: if the only variable was mummy's working hard for the
Speaker 3: food and the mortgage, then there probably could be a
Speaker 3: workaround that would mean I was around more. But that's
Speaker 3: why I think you've got to own the selfish part
Speaker 3: a little bit. And selfish is a negative word, but
Speaker 3: it's like, but I do love it, and I do
Speaker 3: love my words.
Speaker 4: You just said, so you didn't say ambitious. When someone
Speaker 4: says a woman is ambitious, it's usually particularly if it's
Speaker 4: another woman, it's coded as being she's selfish, because that's
Speaker 4: how women working for any other reason than necessity or
Speaker 4: for the benefit of someone else, it's coded as selfish.
Speaker 4: And the other thing that's worth noting is that the
Speaker 4: Internet is allowed us to work all the time. Like
Speaker 4: it used to be that you couldn't like there was
Speaker 4: only so much you could do thanks to technology or
Speaker 4: the lack of it.
Speaker 1: Now there's no endpoint.
Speaker 3: The people I know who have the best boundaried work
Speaker 3: life balance, to use that Hackney term, in my life
Speaker 3: are people whose jobs are very clearly on and very
Speaker 3: clearly off and like although Mea will always win obviously
Speaker 3: the working hard Olympics around here because she runs a
Speaker 3: business that never literally never turns off. My work is
Speaker 3: I rarely have a day off because there's always something
Speaker 3: that can be done, Whereas when I had a more
Speaker 3: managerial role, I probably was at work more, but I
Speaker 3: had more clear definition. And that's a big difference.
Speaker 4: To out loud as in a Moment, a truish story
Speaker 4: that was based on a lie and changed everything.
Speaker 3: Vibes, ideas, atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 1: This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 4: It's time for our recommendations, the things that we are recommending.
Speaker 1: As the name suggests, Wow, now we all have that
Speaker 1: should be the tapping.
Speaker 2: Line for this segment for.
Speaker 1: You to watch.
Speaker 4: I'm going to trademarket and put it on T shirt.
Speaker 4: We all have things for you to watch.
Speaker 1: You might have to want to go fast.
Speaker 3: You're going to go first.
Speaker 2: You know those weeks when you can't wait for Friday
Speaker 2: because you're so desperate to recommend what you need to recommend,
Speaker 2: because you fucking nailed your recommendation. Yeah, that's me this week.
Speaker 2: I'm late to the party. But season two of this
Speaker 2: season has just dropped, so it's been sort of reinvigorated Severance.
Speaker 5: What you all did was one of the most painful
Speaker 5: moments in the history of this company. But the four
Speaker 5: of you have become known as the face of Severance reform.
Speaker 3: Okay, so we're not in trouble.
Speaker 2: I don't think so. Melchik said, we're famous, all of
Speaker 2: us equally, or one of us is like to start
Speaker 2: So what.
Speaker 3: The hell did you guys see up there? It's not
Speaker 3: our world up there, And.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm on the Severance train. It is
Speaker 2: a show on Apple TV, and it's about work right,
Speaker 2: It's work. It is stunning, it is brilliant, it is genius,
Speaker 2: it is life changing from the beginning.
Speaker 1: Okay, everyone's time three times to watch it.
Speaker 2: Okay, I have a hack for you in terms of that.
Speaker 2: But I'm going to start by saying, it's got Adam Scott, Scott,
Speaker 2: Tricia Quet, it's got Christopher Walken, it's directed by Ben Steel.
Speaker 2: My god, that saying more. Okay, Maya. I saw the
Speaker 2: ad I read the description. I watched half an episode
Speaker 2: two years ago, and I went, it's not for me.
Speaker 1: Stopian felt like black Meer and now like The Office.
Speaker 2: God, no, it's like black Mirror.
Speaker 3: So it's not funny.
Speaker 2: It is. Actually it's dark. It's got kind of dark humor.
Speaker 2: It's a psychological thriller. It's dystopian. But I got halfway
Speaker 2: through the episode and I looked at Lucra and I went, no,
Speaker 2: it's just not doing it for me, and he was like, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: I'm in by the end of that first you just
Speaker 2: youve got to trust me. Okay, Okay, you just got
Speaker 2: to watch the first episode. Now, this is a premise.
Speaker 2: So Mark Scout, who's played by Adam Scott, is an
Speaker 2: employee at a company called Luhmen. Right, and Luhmen does
Speaker 2: this thing where they insert a chip in your brain
Speaker 2: and you become a severed employee. What that means is
Speaker 2: that when you walk into your work building, you become
Speaker 2: your work self, otherwise known as an inny, and you
Speaker 2: have no memories of your outing. So you go and
Speaker 2: have a work day, like we're having our work day
Speaker 2: right now. I don't even know I have a kid,
Speaker 2: I don't know I'm married.
Speaker 3: I presider of bringing your whole self to words, it's
Speaker 3: the opposite.
Speaker 2: And then you walk out and then I go home
Speaker 2: to Luna could have state secrets. I've got absolutely no idea.
Speaker 2: So that big idea. The big question is why would
Speaker 2: someone choose that what has happened in someone's life to
Speaker 2: go Why would they consent to that in the first place,
Speaker 2: because they've signed up for it? Right, Oh my god,
Speaker 2: it's just so so so okay. It's like the best
Speaker 2: episode of Black Mary you've ever seen. Back in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty two, when the first season came out, it was
Speaker 2: nominated fourteen Emmys, Right, and then we have waited years
Speaker 2: because of writers strikes, because of all of this. For
Speaker 2: the next season. I started on Friday, and I am
Speaker 2: now up to date and it's just oh, okay, watch
Speaker 2: it whole.
Speaker 1: I've got a movie.
Speaker 3: I went to the movies. I had a date night
Speaker 3: at the movies the other week, and I watched A
Speaker 3: Complete Unknown, which is the movie that Timothy Challamaye plays
Speaker 3: Bob Dylan in, and I bloody loved it.
Speaker 5: You tramped all the way from Minnesota.
Speaker 3: Why is that?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 1: I catch you smoke.
Speaker 5: If you're traveling.
Speaker 3: In the north drift.
Speaker 4: I see.
Speaker 3: No one wants to hear when he can't roll. Last month, well,
Speaker 3: I like your songs with.
Speaker 5: The winds hit heavy on the boardline? Who wrote this?
Speaker 4: He did?
Speaker 3: Remember me? How about that jump by as folks?
Speaker 1: Because she's pretty, sings pretty once, maybe.
Speaker 3: A little too pretty, true love. Your songs are like
Speaker 3: an oil painting and the dentist's office.
Speaker 5: You're kind of an asshole bomb if.
Speaker 4: You go.
Speaker 3: FA usual complaint of all movies now too long. But
Speaker 3: I didn't even mind.
Speaker 2: No, Holy I looked it up because I went, I'm
Speaker 2: going to say that. On Saurday night, two hours and
Speaker 2: twenty minutes, I said, I can't.
Speaker 1: I can't have a brutalist, which is four hours.
Speaker 3: No, my mom went to see that. She said she'd
Speaker 3: only go if she was allowed to have a drink
Speaker 3: in the entire My dad was like, sure, anyway, I
Speaker 3: Digress two hours twenty is long, but it is so good.
Speaker 3: It is so good because the music is brilliant. You're
Speaker 3: transported in time to a batter life for a time.
Speaker 1: Because I don't like his music at all.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, when I heard someone say that, really, I've
Speaker 3: heard lots of people say that.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just I say it all.
Speaker 3: Think it helps, like you don't have to like all
Speaker 3: Bob Dylan, but those iconic sixties songs like a rolling Stone.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I couldn't love it more. Anyway, it's
Speaker 3: the story of him. But the thing is so it's
Speaker 3: a biopic, right, and it's directed by the guy who
Speaker 3: directed like Walk the Line and all those Johnny Cash.
Speaker 3: He's the guy who makes all the biopics. I think
Speaker 3: he's married Tellen Mirrn Anyway, again, We Digress isn't one
Speaker 3: of those biopics where it's like and he was born
Speaker 3: in this town and he did this. It's very much
Speaker 3: one of those biopics that just takes one moment in
Speaker 3: time and Timothy Challon May plays Dylan and he is
Speaker 3: so extraordinary. I can't even speak about how extraordinary he is.
Speaker 2: I love him.
Speaker 3: How is he?
Speaker 2: I know, We've just he's so talented.
Speaker 3: I think he's had severance chip because when he's working,
Speaker 3: he seems like the most deep, emotionally intelligent intellect to
Speaker 3: all dude. And then he just loves a purse, which
Speaker 3: is fine off the carpet. He just likes pretty girls
Speaker 3: and nightclubs. Anyway, we digress. Did you just call Carlie
Speaker 3: general purse. She's been carrying around a little channel purse
Speaker 3: like that's he Yeah, he dresses very interestingly. You don't
Speaker 3: hear the word purse very oftti and he loves that anyway.
Speaker 3: The women in El Fanning, she plays like the girlfriend
Speaker 3: from the early years who he very quickly cheats on.
Speaker 3: Monica Barbera, she's nominated for an Oscar's gem By. She's
Speaker 3: extraordinarily good. I love, love loved it, Ed Norton, it's
Speaker 3: an Oscar movie.
Speaker 1: Go see it.
Speaker 4: I think mine's more interesting than either of yours. It
Speaker 4: is called it's a mini series based on a true story.
Speaker 4: It's called Apples Side of Vinegar and It is the
Speaker 4: Bell Gibson story. It's out, It came out this week.
Speaker 4: It's all dropped. It is a feast on Netflix.
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 3: I have a question, hand up question.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Is it the Bell Gibson story or is it inspired
Speaker 3: by like Strife was inspired by.
Speaker 1: The Bell Gibson story.
Speaker 4: The Bell Gibson story starring an actor whose name I've forgotten,
Speaker 4: who looks incredibly and sounds incredibly like Bell Gibson. She's American.
Speaker 2: I know her from a very famous American.
Speaker 4: Was this week The Premiere, The Premier, The Premier. The
Speaker 4: Premier was this week and live from Amamea in our
Speaker 4: social team presented her with a certificate for the best
Speaker 4: Australian accent on the red carpet because you would never know.
Speaker 4: It is flawless anyway. It tells the story of Bell Gibson,
Speaker 4: of course, who pretended she had brain cancer and launched
Speaker 4: an app and.
Speaker 1: Got a cookbook deal.
Speaker 4: But it tells the story of two other women parallel
Speaker 4: to that, whose paths intersected with Belle One is. In
Speaker 4: the show she's called Miller, but in real life she
Speaker 4: was a lifestyle blogger and former magazine writer called Jess Ainskoff,
Speaker 4: who I knew a little bit. She got cancer in
Speaker 4: her arm, and she chose to back in the early
Speaker 4: two thousands, she chose to not have traditional medicine and
Speaker 4: to cure herself with something called the Gerson diet, which
Speaker 4: was about juices and having coffee ennimals and it's a
Speaker 4: wellness protocol. Even though the doctors said, if we amputate
Speaker 4: your arm, there's like a ninety percent chance that you'll
Speaker 4: be fine, she went, no, I don't want to have chemo.
Speaker 4: I don't want to lose my arm. I'm going to
Speaker 4: try this other way. And she discovered basically these charlatans
Speaker 4: on the Internet. And so it tells the story of
Speaker 4: how her path intersected with Belle's, how Bell became very
Speaker 4: inspired slash jealous of her and co opted her story
Speaker 4: as her own. And then there's the story of a
Speaker 4: third woman called Lucy, who I think is fictionalized, but
Speaker 4: she discovers that she has cancer, has traditional treatment, becomes
Speaker 4: quite disillusioned, and then becomes a disciple of Bell Gibson.
Speaker 5: I'd lied to welcome on the stage.
Speaker 4: Shell Gibson.
Speaker 3: It must have affected her that my book was reviewed
Speaker 3: as better than her. I'm sorry, who's her Miller?
Speaker 4: She was diagnosed with cancer, so she's consistently maintained.
Speaker 2: I have no reason to doubt her.
Speaker 5: Because in her case it's true.
Speaker 2: It's a funny.
Speaker 3: My doctor said, have brain cancer.
Speaker 1: He's a bloggie my life. She's just like you.
Speaker 2: You do look incredible.
Speaker 1: Well, I've never felt better.
Speaker 3: I have to find the right way for me. I
Speaker 3: just got each other.
Speaker 1: Loved the session.
Speaker 2: Four body goose bumps, thanks for coming.
Speaker 3: Bell gives him the brain cancer.
Speaker 4: Great and it looks at the paths of these three
Speaker 4: women and it is so well done.
Speaker 2: Dying to see who wrote it.
Speaker 1: It was written by Samantha Strauss.
Speaker 4: She wrote, Yeah, okay. I think it's based off the
Speaker 4: original investigative reporting that Nick Tuscani and Oh Yeah Yeah
Speaker 4: did for the Age many years ago. They won a
Speaker 4: lot of awards for that, and it's actually produced. I
Speaker 4: didn't realize by my cousin and Mils Sherman at Sea
Speaker 4: Saw they've done Slow Horses, the King speech Lion Seesaw
Speaker 4: does amazing work, like really dramatic worsh My god, I
Speaker 4: can't wait to say it's brilliant. They've even recreated that
Speaker 4: famous sixty minutes interview where she's wearing the turtle, where
Speaker 4: she's wearing the pink turk.
Speaker 3: Do you think we'll do it? Do you think if
Speaker 3: we all watch it, can we do an episode on it?
Speaker 3: Do you think me like that? Oh?
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, no, I was going to say, I want
Speaker 4: to do a recap of every episode. We will do
Speaker 4: a recap episode the three of us. And also, if
Speaker 4: you want to know more about the Bill Gibson story,
Speaker 4: We've done a whole podcast about this and it is
Speaker 4: fascinating her story, So we'll put a link to that
Speaker 4: in the show.
Speaker 2: Notes after the break Boobs a dethroned King and discovering
Speaker 2: music taste. It is our best and Worst. Every Tuesday
Speaker 2: and Thursday, we drop new segments of Mummeya out Loud
Speaker 2: just from me A. Subscribers follow the link in the
Speaker 2: show notes to get your daily Joseph out Loud and
Speaker 2: a big thank you to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 3: I'm going to go first and best and worse this week.
Speaker 3: I'm a reminder to the group that best and worst
Speaker 3: can be silly, it can be serious, it can be
Speaker 3: whatever you want it to be. Very serious worst this
Speaker 3: week I want to prepare everybody. Okay, Brent is no
Speaker 3: longer the king of SCons in my.
Speaker 2: Neighborhood because Brent your boyfriend. He won the Scon Award
Speaker 2: for the best Scottis in the country, or.
Speaker 3: It has been restored. Very quick backstory. I live in
Speaker 3: regional New South Wales. Country shows are a big deal.
Speaker 3: The very show was on at the weekend. Everybody enters
Speaker 3: things so like they have like a puppy with the
Speaker 3: waggiest tail competition. They have competition for the biggest pumpkins.
Speaker 2: Like the Grammys, and he walked in the Grammys, right yeah.
Speaker 1: And he has New Zealand into local city.
Speaker 3: Brent had baked his famous lemonade scones, which are only
Speaker 3: famous in the four walls of her house, and entered
Speaker 3: them into the baking contest, which is hotly contested. Right
Speaker 3: at these things, there are people there that c w A.
Speaker 3: There's people there have been They are not the album
Speaker 3: of the year, album of the year. And he just
Speaker 3: swooped in like chapel ron a pointy hat and he
Speaker 3: won last year and the man was insufferable. Actually, we've
Speaker 3: got the recipe for a scon somewhere. We'll put it somewhere.
Speaker 2: So would you say he was a favorite going into
Speaker 2: this year?
Speaker 1: He was.
Speaker 3: You'd go into town and all anyone would talk to
Speaker 3: you about was like, is Brent entering his SCons? And
Speaker 3: then the rumors started. They said, so and so has
Speaker 3: brought a Thermo mix and she's going to allow Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: he allowed to use whatever. And she's been practicing and
Speaker 3: blah blah, and so and so has been practicing every
Speaker 3: day because everybody wants to beat Brent. And indeed, another
Speaker 3: friend of mine Ali lid better One and took Brent out.
Speaker 4: He was a very upset a runners up prize or
Speaker 4: any participation award, get a commendation, maya.
Speaker 3: It was like he fell.
Speaker 1: What happened?
Speaker 3: Great heights. He claims that he had to do it
Speaker 3: very early in the morning. He claims for the self
Speaker 3: raising flowers old and not new. I'm like, well, that's
Speaker 3: a rookie era. Anyway, my friend al lid better One.
Speaker 3: People on the internet have called her Ali did better
Speaker 3: and made little for her. Ali, I know you're listening.
Speaker 3: She is an out louder. Congratulations, Brent will never come
Speaker 3: to your house again.
Speaker 1: I'm not sad because I never got to try one.
Speaker 3: I'll bring you one now that they're not special anyway.
Speaker 3: My best, which is much nicer, is that my firstborn
Speaker 3: turned fifteen this week. My daughter and teenage girls get
Speaker 3: a bad rap often from me.
Speaker 1: Did you give her a G string swim birthday?
Speaker 3: I didn't and she isn't yet wearing one of those,
Speaker 3: but it's probably not.
Speaker 1: Exactly.
Speaker 3: But teenage girls get a bad rap often from us
Speaker 3: because it can be tricky, like it's a transition of parenting.
Speaker 3: There is no question from this little person and she
Speaker 3: was my baby. And this little person who just looks
Speaker 3: at you like mommy, you know, and she's so delighted
Speaker 3: and she wants to be with you all the time
Speaker 3: to this person who basically couldn't care less. She and
Speaker 3: you nine this year, she's near ten this year. Oh okay.
Speaker 3: And she mostly has requests for me like can I
Speaker 3: have and will you take me? And am I allowed to?
Speaker 3: And very little else. She gets in the car and
Speaker 3: I often say you have to talk to me for
Speaker 3: ten minutes before you put earbuds in, and she's like,
Speaker 3: but the thing there is is my best is because
Speaker 3: the other side of that is the joy in seeing
Speaker 3: them become more independent, Like there's sadness for you. And
Speaker 3: a lot of my friends message my mother's group obviously
Speaker 3: all our kids turning fifteen, they are messaging each other,
Speaker 3: and I'm really struggling with this pulling away. But there's
Speaker 3: also so much joy in seeing and become independent beings.
Speaker 3: And I just I love it a bits and I
Speaker 3: look at it and i just think, obviously in my eyes,
Speaker 3: I'm like, you're.
Speaker 4: Just the most gorgeous.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, mo, than, what was your worst?
Speaker 1: My worst of the week was actually my boobs, which is.
Speaker 4: So you've got good boobs, bab No, They're too big
Speaker 4: and I don't like them at the moment. I'm fighting
Speaker 4: with my boobs. So I've been trying to add testosterone.
Speaker 4: I'm actually thinking this might be the problem. Although test
Speaker 4: testosterone adding it to my hr T.
Speaker 3: This is not medical advice. Do not take medical You
Speaker 3: should do that.
Speaker 4: You can just go and get it like from the shop.
Speaker 2: It sounds like you're having to play.
Speaker 4: No. I was prescribed it biomedical professional based on my
Speaker 4: hormonal levels, which were measured because I'm postmenopausal now, and
Speaker 4: so every time I've tried to use it, it's not
Speaker 4: agreed with me. And I well, the first time I
Speaker 4: realized I used twice as much as I was meant to.
Speaker 2: Did you grow a bit?
Speaker 4: Did? I wanted to vomit and I felt really wrong,
Speaker 4: felt terrible. And then I went and went, oh, I
Speaker 4: actually was meant to be one pump, but I put
Speaker 4: one pump under each arm instead of just one pump
Speaker 4: between the two arms. Anyway, now I'm having like a
Speaker 4: quarter of a pump. I don't think it's agreeing with me.
Speaker 4: It gave me a period. I started spotting my boobs
Speaker 4: were like sore in the way that they feel like
Speaker 4: when you're about to get your period or when you're pregnant.
Speaker 4: And I was like, imagine if I was pregnant, but
Speaker 4: I'm not pregnant.
Speaker 2: Ply's laugh Now, well it's so beautiful focus I have
Speaker 2: a baby, and you're like, I want a baby, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, Maya, you're fifty something.
Speaker 1: It's miracle.
Speaker 4: Anyway, but my boobs just became so big, and I
Speaker 4: just became I started thinking about getting a breast reduction.
Speaker 1: This week. They've settled down a bit now.
Speaker 3: Maybe just back off the testosterone.
Speaker 4: Jel yeah, I have. I've stopped that again. Anyway, So
Speaker 4: that was my worst.
Speaker 3: I just want to give you a compliment though, because
Speaker 3: I think you dress your boobs very well, because you've
Speaker 3: been I'm telling me for a while now how much
Speaker 3: you don't like your big boobs, But I don't notice.
Speaker 4: I think that you're interesting. This is not a diss
Speaker 4: on anyone's big boobs. I have no objection. They just
Speaker 4: feel because I didn't grow up with big boobs, I'm
Speaker 4: just not used to it.
Speaker 1: I feel like I've had.
Speaker 3: A boob job, like you're in someone else's body.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 4: Anyway, My best is Jesse mentioned we launched biz this week.
Speaker 4: I think it's like our sixtieth podcast or something. I've
Speaker 4: kind of lost count. What's been so fun on the
Speaker 4: show has been all the talent. Like there's Sophurst who
Speaker 4: used to work at Google, Michelle Battersby, who is an entrepreneur.
Speaker 4: She has a company called Sunroom, and she's been a
Speaker 4: chief marketing officer for Bumble and she's done amazing things
Speaker 4: as well, and of course our own lazy girl, and
Speaker 4: Vernon who's very ambitious but also wants to just have
Speaker 4: a good lightoun who doesn't need, who does need? And
Speaker 4: Vernon because what she brings to the show is a
Speaker 4: lot of humor and also the perspective of what you
Speaker 4: were talking about, Jesse, which is the I'm ambitious, but
Speaker 4: I'm also just.
Speaker 2: A very fresh take on career.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so it sounds different, It sounds like a
Speaker 4: different show. It's a lot of fun. I really love
Speaker 4: that process of just working creatively with the team on
Speaker 4: that show, including our Grepp Georgie, Who's and now it's
Speaker 4: we're just letting it into the world and it's being
Speaker 4: received really well and I'm stoked. So that's my best
Speaker 4: of the week.
Speaker 2: New Talent Worst has been a while coming along with
Speaker 2: this podcast. For the last three and a bit years,
Speaker 2: I've been co hosting another podcast called Canceled, which is
Speaker 2: my favorite thing going in and recording that. It's my
Speaker 2: twin sister, Claire and I sit there and just laugh
Speaker 2: for forty five minutes. We have had some of the
Speaker 2: best times in that studio. And over the last few months,
Speaker 2: Claire has been making some career decisions. She's been finishing
Speaker 2: off a book, and when you write a book, it's
Speaker 2: a very solitary task and by the end you kind
Speaker 2: of go, oh, wow, look what I can do On
Speaker 2: my own, and I think that she sort of looked
Speaker 2: up and went, I have some projects that I feel,
Speaker 2: especially when you're a twin, much of what you do
Speaker 2: and who you are is about that relationship and it's
Speaker 2: a bit of codependence. And so Claire came to this
Speaker 2: conclusion over summer, I think I want to do a
Speaker 2: few things on my own, and that would mean stopping
Speaker 2: doing canceled and it broke my heart, Like I wasn't
Speaker 2: ready for it to finish. I felt like I was
Speaker 2: dumped and that I was sister by my sister, and
Speaker 2: also like I was going, oh, but almost you know,
Speaker 2: when you beg them to take you back and look,
Speaker 2: it was a classic it's not you, it's me situation,
Speaker 2: like it was what Claire is planning. And I think
Speaker 2: that once you've had a baby, your priority shift and
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. And it's been really really
Speaker 2: hard to kind of see that gap and the community
Speaker 2: that we've built and the listeners we have so so
Speaker 2: much fun, and to have to sit down and we
Speaker 2: recorded last episode, which was so fun, but to have
Speaker 2: to tell them, I was like, oh, I have so
Speaker 2: much fun chatting to you every way.
Speaker 4: A lot of our latters of who are also canceled listeners.
Speaker 4: Holly and I have been asking when's canceled coming?
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really sad. And I think that Claire will
Speaker 2: go and do projects, and we go off and do
Speaker 2: our own things, and then we'll be back doing something
Speaker 2: in some capacity at some point. But for now it's
Speaker 2: it's resting. We have a back catalog of a million
Speaker 2: episodes that are so much fun. But I'm very, very.
Speaker 4: Sad to see that that's the end of an era.
Speaker 2: It's the end of an era. Look, my best what.
Speaker 1: Are you what podcast? Are you going to quit this week?
Speaker 3: I'm not quitting me. In fact, we just brought it back.
Speaker 3: I suddenly thought, hey, I've got to jump on this
Speaker 3: quick and get a mid plumb. This week it's me
Speaker 3: talking to Amanda Kella and her best friend of NADA
Speaker 3: about friendship love and I cry in the intro because
Speaker 3: I wrote an intro about my best friend and about
Speaker 3: ex friends and friendships and cheerleading friends and feedback friends,
Speaker 3: and it made me cry. Me and producer Grace were
Speaker 3: like crying in there, and I was like, this isn't
Speaker 3: how this is supposed to go. Anyway, Go listen to
Speaker 3: one of those friendships that you like. I see why,
Speaker 3: the chemistry of this world.
Speaker 2: I love those episodes. Well, my best is that for
Speaker 2: the last eighty months of my life I have listened
Speaker 2: to more Wiggles than anyone should ever listen to. Right,
Speaker 2: and no hate to the Wiggles. I like them, but
Speaker 2: it does something to you psychologically when you.
Speaker 3: And you begin to obsess about them. I began to
Speaker 3: obsess about them and like start obsessing their private life.
Speaker 2: I follow them stories to yourself. I see them on
Speaker 2: TikTok and I'm like, Hi, how are you so high?
Speaker 2: You live in my house? Yeah, you live in my
Speaker 2: house exactly. And over the weekend I was going to
Speaker 2: visit my pop and where he is at the moment
Speaker 2: is fifty minutes away right long Cartridge, and I tried
Speaker 2: to play my podcast. I try to play my music.
Speaker 2: It's just a firm no on that. It's always from
Speaker 2: from the backseat, firm No Wiggles Anyway, Figgles. We have
Speaker 2: changed and now we have a new request. And you
Speaker 2: know what the new request is, Taya, Oh, we've become
Speaker 2: obsessed with Taylor's to our Well, it's our auntie who
Speaker 2: is the craziest Swifty, you've ever met? She loves Taylor Swift.
Speaker 2: And I think that maybe Luna seems to know a
Speaker 2: lot about the album and the Eras tour, which is
Speaker 2: weird because she's not last screen time. But when I
Speaker 2: did catch her watching the Eras tour, she could do
Speaker 2: a choreographed routine.
Speaker 3: What's her favorite Taylor song?
Speaker 2: Well, she started requesting one. There's one called the One.
Speaker 2: I didn't even know there was one called the One.
Speaker 2: So I was like, hey, Siri, play the one and
Speaker 2: the one and she loves it.
Speaker 1: It was also like, so I can do it with
Speaker 1: a broken heart.
Speaker 2: She does.
Speaker 3: She started tworking.
Speaker 2: She started working, and then the other day we've been
Speaker 2: trying to teach her to say love, so I go,
Speaker 2: I love you. I loved it, Like we're trying to
Speaker 2: get her to say it, and she's going love love
Speaker 2: and then she goes I love and there was this
Speaker 2: pregnant pause and she goes Taya down and she starts
Speaker 2: doing a little twerk. I was like, so the best
Speaker 2: was that for fifty minutes I got to listen to
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift. Fifty minutes I listened back and I was like,
Speaker 2: I can lyrically musically.
Speaker 1: Oh, she's an incredible songwriter.
Speaker 2: I'm here. This is Taylor more for filling for Mummy
Speaker 2: than hot potato better bridges.
Speaker 3: Yes, this is the plan from Auntie. Is she a
Speaker 3: doctrin hu via your door?
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, and I'll be going to the next tour.
Speaker 3: Love Love, That is all we've got time for today.
Speaker 3: Out Louder is a massive thank you to you for
Speaker 3: being with us all week. Of course, we'll be back
Speaker 3: in your ears next week. But if you still want
Speaker 3: more of us, and why wouldn't you, of course, listen
Speaker 3: to yesterday's episode about Night Bitch. It is an extraordinary
Speaker 3: TV show, the Amy Adams One about motherhood and dogs.
Speaker 3: All of us watched it, all of us discussed it,
Speaker 3: loved it, loved it. There's a link in the show notes.
Speaker 3: Go listen. Jesse Adma read us out.
Speaker 2: A big thank you to our team group executive producer
Speaker 2: Ruth Devine, Executive producer Emmeline Gazillis.
Speaker 4: She has a recommendation. Em She told me she wanted
Speaker 4: to pass on to the Out louders. She's been getting
Speaker 4: really into the fancy flavored tuna and she's even managed
Speaker 4: to convert our big boss Ruth, who once ranted about.
Speaker 1: The stuff because it's our feedback.
Speaker 4: Yeah it can we be controversial having tune in the office.
Speaker 4: But also Ruth didn't like that there were too many tunas.
Speaker 2: No because you're buy the wrong one. You go and
Speaker 2: you get chili oil and you're like, I didn't want that.
Speaker 2: I wanted sea salt.
Speaker 4: But M's like, lean in, they're having pesto tuna. It's
Speaker 4: just a big I think it's Serena. M's now a
Speaker 4: Tuna influencer anyway.
Speaker 3: Okay, so Reco.
Speaker 2: Our audio producer is Leah Porgies who's probably aiding Tuna too,
Speaker 2: and video producer Josh Green.
Speaker 3: Bye byey.
Speaker 4: Shout out to any Mum and Maya subscribers listening. If
Speaker 4: you love the show and want to support us as well,
Speaker 4: subscribing to Mom and Mia is the very best way
Speaker 4: to do so. There is a link in the episode description.