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Speaker 1: I don't think there's right time for anything, not with kids,

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Speaker 1: not with business, not with like talking to your friends

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Speaker 1: about certain things. It's just do things and try things

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Speaker 1: and then a lot of the things won't work out,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of things will work out. But you've

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Speaker 1: got to do so many things. If you don't have

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Speaker 1: the foundations, you cannot take risks. You should be a

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Speaker 1: risk taker only when you've got the foundation sorted. If

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Speaker 1: you follow what the market wants and know what you want,

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Speaker 1: you will be successful. If you follow what you want

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Speaker 1: and not what the market wants, you won't be successful.

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Speaker 1: And that's the truth.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Sees the Yay Podcast.

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Speaker 3: Busy and happy are not the same thing. We too

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Speaker 3: rarely question what makes the heart seeing. We work, then

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Speaker 3: we rest, but rarely we play and often don't realize

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Speaker 3: there's more than one way. So this is a platform

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Speaker 3: to hear and explore the stories of.

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Speaker 1: Those who found lives.

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Speaker 3: They adore, the good, bad and ugly.

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Speaker 2: The best and worst day will bear all the facets

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Speaker 2: of seizing your yay. I'm Sarah Davidson or a spoonful

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Speaker 2: of Sarah, a lawyer turned funentrepreneurshos wapped the Suits and

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Speaker 2: Heels to co found matcha Maiden and matcha Milk bar

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Speaker 2: CZA is a series of conversations on finding a life

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Speaker 2: you love and exploring the self doubt, challenge, joy and

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Speaker 2: fulfillment along the way. Welcome back, Lovely neighborhood. I hope

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Speaker 2: the new financial year is treating you well so far,

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Speaker 2: which might sound like a weird thing to say, but

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Speaker 2: since many of you have likedly been drawn to this

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Speaker 2: episode because you're business owners, I think it does actually

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Speaker 2: make a lot of sense. I'm so excited to share

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Speaker 2: today's episode with you, not only because our guest is

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Speaker 2: infinitely knowledgeable and a delight to chat with, but also

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Speaker 2: because it ended.

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Speaker 1: Up a little different to usual.

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Speaker 2: Anita Saka and I have been mutually found girling for

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Speaker 2: many years now, doing a product partnership, doing speaking gigs together,

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Speaker 2: plus living in different states in both being mums. It's

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Speaker 2: taken us a while to make this happen. But one

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Speaker 2: of the many things I love about her is her

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Speaker 2: insatiable curiosity. Because of that, she not only didn't really

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Speaker 2: want to spend time on the parts of her origin

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Speaker 2: story or pathier that have been exhaustively covered elsewhere, which

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Speaker 2: you know, is something I also think about a lot.

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Speaker 2: But she also asked me more questions back than any

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Speaker 2: guest has before, which made for a slightly chaotic, very tangential,

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Speaker 2: surprisingly vulnerable, but extremely enjoyable conversation that possibly reveals more

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Speaker 2: about both of us as people than our normal structure

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Speaker 2: ever could have. But her path yay is incredibly inspiring,

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Speaker 2: interesting and impressive, so I have to quickly give you

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Speaker 2: a rundown so you know the genius that you're dealing with.

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Speaker 2: Born in India as the daughter of a doctor, Anita

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Speaker 2: started out on your typical high achieving pathway at KPMG

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Speaker 2: before quickly realizing her yay lay elsewhere after multiple different

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Speaker 2: business experiments. Early on elucidating that endless curiosity, we spoke

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Speaker 2: about touching on a makeup, photography and customized leather goods.

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Speaker 2: She co founded Hero Packaging from her dining table, which

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Speaker 2: has now grown to be a global supplier of over

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Speaker 2: thirty million combustible mailers. Addressing plastic usage in shipping, This

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Speaker 2: incredible b corporation makes compostible, custom and ready to ship mailers, boxes, labels,

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Speaker 2: and tissue paper.

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Speaker 1: And if you think you've heard of them, before.

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Speaker 2: That's because CZA is just one of her seventy three

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Speaker 2: thousand happy customers. You may also know Anita as the

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Speaker 2: brains behind sell Anything Online, a bustling community, the banner

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Speaker 2: under which she's published two amazing books and the Ultimate

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Speaker 2: Evolving playbook on the wild world of e commerce. She

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Speaker 2: has mastered the art of building brands, telling stories, and

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Speaker 2: continually reinventing yourself. And we're so lucky that she shared

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Speaker 2: so many practical tips in between our yapping today. I

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Speaker 2: was furiously taking notes, and I'm sure most of you

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Speaker 2: will as well.

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Speaker 1: Somehow.

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Speaker 2: She's also a mum of three in between all of

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Speaker 2: this and building a brand new business at the moment.

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Speaker 2: So if you're after a dose of inspiration, Anita is it.

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Speaker 2: I hope you enjoy this one as much as I did. Anita, Hi,

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Cca.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.

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Speaker 2: We have been trying to make this happen for it's

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Speaker 2: been six months.

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Speaker 1: Can I can I come? Now? Can I come? And

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Speaker 1: like we can't make this work?

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Speaker 2: I'm glad I'm here though, and you're actually in person,

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Speaker 2: in the best so exciting, Oh my gosh, Well, thank

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Speaker 2: you so much.

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Speaker 1: For being here.

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Speaker 2: I feel like anything worth doing takes at least seventy

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Speaker 2: five reschedules in this day and age, and it just

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Speaker 2: makes it all the more special when it does happen.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, we've got to manage the work schedules.

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Speaker 1: And then also you're obviously in Melbourne, I'm in Sydney.

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Speaker 1: The kids, like, there's just so many variables, so to

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Speaker 1: make it is a miracle. It's actually a miracle. Actually,

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Speaker 1: that's a big celebration to be had.

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Speaker 2: I'm really really proud of us making it today, and

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Speaker 2: because I mean we've been mutually fan girling each other

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Speaker 2: for many many years now. So I actually was really

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Speaker 2: overwhelmed last night trying to work out what I wanted

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Speaker 2: to concentrate on, because I mean, you have two incredible books,

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Speaker 2: you have so much content across so many platforms and

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Speaker 2: as such a fountain of knowledge that I was like,

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Speaker 2: I only have an hour, like I need to do

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Speaker 2: on Anita mini series to just get out everything that

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Speaker 2: I want to get out. So it was really hard

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Speaker 2: to kind of choose where to go. And for that reason,

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of people listening will already follow

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Speaker 2: you and might know your origin story. Founding Hero, which

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Speaker 2: is actually your second business and actually not your second project.

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Speaker 2: There have been many along the way, so I don't

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Speaker 2: want to spend too long. I think we discussed this

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Speaker 2: off air, not spending too long on all the steps,

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Speaker 2: because you can hear that elsewhere. But I think it's

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Speaker 2: important to touch on a few of the dot points

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Speaker 2: just to give context. Okay, so maybe let's start there,

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Speaker 2: because the path ya to the life that you live

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Speaker 2: now is the bit that doesn't get as much airtime.

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Speaker 2: It's the bit that I think is reassuring to people

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Speaker 2: who are earlier on in their journey because we meet

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Speaker 2: you now, you're a CEO, You're incredibly successful and have

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Speaker 2: so much knowledge.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I will stop you there, because it's like the

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Speaker 1: incredibly successful thing is such a that's what you see

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Speaker 1: on social media and stuff. So I will stop you because, okay,

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Speaker 1: let me give you some context of like how this happened? Yes,

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Speaker 1: and I am here. And it's so funny because when

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Speaker 1: people ask me questions, first of all, they're always like,

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Speaker 1: how did you start Hero Packaging? But actually that's such

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Speaker 1: a bye the bye, Like there's so much else that

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Speaker 1: has brought me to Hero Packaging. But I don't know

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Speaker 1: how far you want me to go back. We can

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Speaker 1: go back to nineteen eighty seven.

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Speaker 2: I was born in nineteen eighty seven, okay, so I

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Speaker 2: want to go back to good arright India and a

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Speaker 2: research girl, a research okay, a research So I want

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Speaker 2: to go back that far because I think, like you said,

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Speaker 2: like everyone focuses on how did you found Hero? Because

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Speaker 2: that's the chapter we walk in on now, and that

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Speaker 2: we think is started when like I think people assume

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Speaker 2: you fell onto the planet and started Hero. Well, I

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Speaker 2: love on this show is the context from your childhood.

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Speaker 2: It is, like I mean, even the fact that you're

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Speaker 2: the daughter of a doctor and there's a lot.

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Speaker 1: Of pressure on you to interpret success and chase.

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Speaker 2: A certain kind of success and you didn't do that,

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Speaker 2: and so there's many people who face those pressures in

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Speaker 2: finding their pathway. I love that you're the daughter of

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Speaker 2: a doctor and it wasn't your dad who was the doctor,

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Speaker 2: it's your mum who's the doctor.

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Speaker 1: Of that in itself is really unique. And it's even

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Speaker 1: more unique that my dad was a musician. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: like my mum was his groupie and she was the

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Speaker 1: one studying and he's really smart, like he did PhD

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Speaker 1: of mathematics and stuff, but his whole life is like

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Speaker 1: music and being on stage. And so I saw them

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Speaker 1: as really high achievers growing up, and they were like,

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously came from India, and we were just

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Speaker 1: trying to like fucking survive, like you know, going to

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Speaker 1: all these little different vegetable shops and being like this

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Speaker 1: carrot is cheaper here. Then, you know, like all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: And every Saturday night I would see my dad perform

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Speaker 1: at different people's houses so that he could make friends.

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Speaker 1: And then that's how they kind of got their family friends.

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Speaker 1: Like he would sing for people and then other people

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Speaker 1: would invite him over and we would just go. And

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Speaker 1: I remember like, because I was little, I would sleep

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Speaker 1: on his lap on stay at the front, and he'd

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Speaker 1: sing for people. And then and like I remember the

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Speaker 1: adoration that people had for him, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I really want that. I didn't think about it consciously,

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Speaker 1: it was really subconscious, but I really want that recognition.

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Speaker 1: And then my mom being a doctor. She I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you know Sydney very well, but she's a

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Speaker 1: doctor in Paramatta and Sydney which is like western suburbs

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Speaker 1: and a lot of Indian people live in Paramatta and

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Speaker 1: Harris Park, so she became like the doctor to go

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Speaker 1: to if you're Indian and so, and then the adoration

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Speaker 1: for her was so extreme too. And like once we

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Speaker 1: went to Egypt and you know, someone at Egypt airport

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Speaker 1: was like, are you doctor Pollu No, and like it

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Speaker 1: happens all the time, and then they'll go and they'll

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Speaker 1: see my dad and like I grew up with like, yes,

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Speaker 1: it was like a struggle financially, la la la. But

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Speaker 1: I actually grew up seeing them as like like people

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Speaker 1: like worship them, That's what I thought, and they recognized

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Speaker 1: them and stuff, and I was like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I could ever be that person. I never what

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Speaker 1: am I going to do? And so I had I

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Speaker 1: grew up wanting that, and then I took the good

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Speaker 1: girl pathway, like the pathway, you know, that's what you

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Speaker 1: have to do. But I wasn't getting the recognition. And

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Speaker 1: I remember thinking like, well, I quit my accounting job.

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Speaker 1: Then I tried media and I quit that. Then I

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Speaker 1: went into marketing and I quit that and I actually

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Speaker 1: literally could not figure out for the life of me

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Speaker 1: while I was quitting because the people are so nice, Like, yes,

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Speaker 1: accounting sucks, but other than that, marketing was great. Went

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Speaker 1: to nice lunches in media, like the people were amazing,

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Speaker 1: the culture is so good. And I'm quitting all the time,

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Speaker 1: quitting within ten months and I couldn't figure it out.

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Speaker 1: And I realized only recently that I love recognition. And

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Speaker 1: that's such a bad thing to say, because it sounds

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Speaker 1: really selfishous, like saying I like money, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. But I've come to realize that. I think

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Speaker 1: growing up, I saw my parents really want like have that,

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Speaker 1: and all I really wanted was recognition, and I wanted

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Speaker 1: them to say like, wow, I'm so proud of you.

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Speaker 1: And one day I'd like to be like they would

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Speaker 1: be my parents, not me being their daughter, if that

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Speaker 1: makes sense. When I went out in public, so anyway,

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Speaker 1: that's what I decided to do, like I quit every thing.

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Speaker 1: And when I realized that for myself, and I started

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Speaker 1: a business and then I started to do little bits

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Speaker 1: of content and I saw people on social and then

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Speaker 1: out on the street and stuff who would say like,

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Speaker 1: I really like your content. I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I'm getting I'm getting recognition. It sounds petty, though, right,

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Speaker 1: like when you say something like that, like why do

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Speaker 1: you care what other people think? It's just something that

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Speaker 1: I have grown up with and it's just something I

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Speaker 1: always wanted. And so now when you say, like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, I researched you to me, the girl who

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Speaker 1: I look up to has researched, I know it sounds bad,

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Speaker 1: but it's like, it doesn't sound matter. It's just so

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Speaker 1: nice to hear that, Like you knew that I was

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Speaker 1: born in Goodrath in India. That's so fucking wile that

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Speaker 1: you researched me and so interesting. But it's so nice

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Speaker 1: to feel like, oh my god, have I made it

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Speaker 1: like Sarah fucking Davidson.

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Speaker 2: Nose where I was born Sarah. And you know what's

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Speaker 2: really interesting is that that honesty is quite rare.

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Speaker 1: I think the self reflection.

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Speaker 2: You must have done to have worked out through the many,

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Speaker 2: many chapters that you've had that that is part of

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Speaker 2: what gives you fulfillment is so important because I think

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Speaker 2: the common threat in everyone's path Yay on the show

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Speaker 2: and otherwise, is that we spend a long time chasing

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Speaker 2: lots of different things and figuring out what the things

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Speaker 2: are worth chasing.

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Speaker 1: That actually matter to us.

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Speaker 2: And I think that where people go awry is where

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Speaker 2: they chase things that matter to other people and they

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Speaker 2: don't figure out what actually matters to them. So true,

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Speaker 2: and there is definitely a bit of a negative connotation

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Speaker 2: with seeking external validation.

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Speaker 1: I think there's so much around.

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Speaker 2: I don't do it for other people. I do it

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Speaker 2: for myself. But it's actually okay to acknowledge that that

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Speaker 2: adoration and that kind of external reinforcement is something that

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Speaker 2: makes you feel really good and when you're not getting it,

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Speaker 2: you aren't fulfilled. It's actually okay to acknowledge the jigsaw

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Speaker 2: puzzle pieces that were missing for you and how good

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Speaker 2: it felt when you found them.

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Speaker 1: It's so right, like I think, because everyone tells you've

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Speaker 1: got to find that within your and I do. There

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Speaker 1: is a lot of that that you have to but

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Speaker 1: it is nice to recognize that that's what I need

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Speaker 1: in my life too. I need a little bit more recognition,

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Speaker 1: and so when I realize that I can actually create

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Speaker 1: a pathway that gets me that sort of stuff, as

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Speaker 1: well as having the stability, Like I am happy at home,

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Speaker 1: I've got a nice family, and I'm also happy inside,

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Speaker 1: but I also get that recognition too makes me happy

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Speaker 1: on all fronts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think one of the most worthy thing

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Speaker 2: that anyone can do is look at all the buckets

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Speaker 2: of different kinds of success. I think this is where, yeah,

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Speaker 2: things get really complicated, is that we worship particular kinds

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Speaker 2: of success, but look at all of them and then

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Speaker 2: match up yourself and your decisions based on the ones

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Speaker 2: that suit you, because they're not all going to look

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Speaker 2: the same. And I think, yeah, we spend too much

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Speaker 2: time chasing titles, finances, stability, parents, expectations. Yeah, not realizing

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Speaker 2: it's okay. If your definition of success is different.

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Speaker 1: It's yours.

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Speaker 2: And I love that. That's a really great question, and

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Speaker 2: I haven't had to articulate it in a little while.

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Speaker 2: I would say it's changed a lot over the past

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Speaker 2: for ten months, and if anything, I think I'm now

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Speaker 2: in a chapter where i've my answer is very confused

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Speaker 2: because I think before parenthood, let's take parenthood out of it.

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Speaker 2: Oh see, that's why it's so hard to answer. It's

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Speaker 2: similar to you in that it's it is more external

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Speaker 2: than I probably have acknowledged before. It's the I think

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Speaker 2: I would define it by impact. It's not so much

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Speaker 2: the fame recognition of it. It's the verbalization of someone

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Speaker 2: having been impacted positively by something that I said, or

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Speaker 2: did or put out there. So that's why I do.

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Speaker 2: I love podcasting, but I find that unless I can

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Speaker 2: meet the listeners and hear that it has been worth

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Speaker 2: it for them, then my measure of success numbers alone

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Speaker 2: or downloads alone in the abstract is not enough. I

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Speaker 2: need to yeah, yeah, and not in a recognition sense,

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Speaker 2: but more in a I want And I hate this

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Speaker 2: phrase so much, but I can't think of a better one.

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Speaker 2: I want to know that something I did move the

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Speaker 2: dial for someone else along their pathway and hearing that

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Speaker 2: to me, I don't think I did when I was

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Speaker 2: doing Matro made and I think that that's maybe why

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Speaker 2: I wanted to sell in the end, because the metrics

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Speaker 2: in business for me personally were very much focused around

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Speaker 2: revenue and growth year on year, profitability, you know that

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Speaker 2: kind of like sales figures and the shells were on

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Speaker 2: and I was like, that doesn't show me impact. I

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Speaker 2: don't get to meet enough customers, and the bigger the

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Speaker 2: business gets, the less I spend time in that role

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Speaker 2: interacting with people on the ground. Whereas doing content you

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Speaker 2: get dams back of all the time that particular piece

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Speaker 2: of content was useful for me because blah, and I

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Speaker 2: think it's yeah similar, I realized the business helped me

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Speaker 2: take one step out of corporate, but I needed to

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Speaker 2: take a further step towards I need the people facing

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Speaker 2: and I wasn't getting that. Yeah, And that was my

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Speaker 2: yet lesson of Okay, this success. I'm getting lots of success,

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Speaker 2: but not the kind that I need. And so let's

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Speaker 2: pivot a little bit just to give you clarity.

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Speaker 1: From my point of view, you have given me a

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Speaker 1: lot of impact, like, and you've impacted also my friends.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you a little story. So one of my

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Speaker 1: really good friends is Claire from l Row Jewelry, and

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Speaker 1: you collaborated with them love come.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the stuff that she said about you was just

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Speaker 1: so like it was probably one of their best that

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Speaker 1: they've ever done. Like they restocked your stuff one hundred

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Speaker 1: times over, and like do they just love you? And

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Speaker 1: I love you, like you actually have had impact on people,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And me, thank you. I

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Speaker 1: just want to say that just so like you have

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Speaker 1: that from my point of view as well.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's really kind, and that was such a lovely

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Speaker 2: question because I haven't reflected on that in a little while,

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Speaker 2: and I think I will come to this because this

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Speaker 2: is a question I wanted to ask you about out

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Speaker 2: from a macro perspective. So firstly, I'm going all over

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Speaker 2: the place here. My brain's just way too excited for

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Speaker 2: anyone listening who wants to hear more about the actual

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Speaker 2: chronology of Anita's journey. You did an incredible episode recently

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Speaker 2: of The Payoff with Sylvia Jeffery Yes, and an episode

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Speaker 2: with Mark Buris on The Mentor, and you kind of

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Speaker 2: go through the chronological process of the different businesses you've

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Speaker 2: found leaving KPMG, the different businesses you've founded first exiting

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Speaker 2: Olivia and co starting Hero and if anyone wants more

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Speaker 2: detail there, please go and listen to those episodes. It

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Speaker 2: was brilliantly done. But from a macro perspective, what I

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Speaker 2: wanted to ask you is you have done makeup photography,

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Speaker 2: a packaging business, a content you're people facing.

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Speaker 1: Now you've got your personal brand.

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Speaker 2: You've just started a new business called Future Memories, and

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Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about the art of reinvention

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Speaker 2: because I think you have been brilliant at knowing when

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Speaker 2: is the time for the next chapter. And all of

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Speaker 2: the chapters have been very different from each other. They're

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Speaker 2: never just copy and pasting the same thing. You've gone

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Speaker 2: from B to B to you're the brand like your product.

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Speaker 2: You've got a product business. And then if you're a

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Speaker 2: business where you're the product, how do you know when

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Speaker 2: it's time for a new chapter?

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Speaker 1: How do you choose what that chapter? There's no planning.

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Speaker 1: I would love to know your process because you have

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Speaker 1: done planning. Like I just think, yolo, that's how That's

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Speaker 1: how I live my life. Like I am like, I

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Speaker 1: just feel like we only get this one life. And

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Speaker 1: if someone is like personal brand is the next thing,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I want to do it too. Like if

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Speaker 1: someone is saying to me like, oh, I've got this

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Speaker 1: business idea, like do you want to help me to

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Speaker 1: do xoz, I'll be like, let's go. If someone says

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Speaker 1: like go to Adelaide and like speak on stage about plants,

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Speaker 1: I'll be like, let's go. I just I and then

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Speaker 1: if I like it, I'll start building a business or

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Speaker 1: content around that. And like there's no plan or structure

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Speaker 1: in this world. For me, it's just there's no right

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Speaker 1: timing or anything, and I don't think there's right time

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Speaker 1: for anything, not with kids, not with business, not with

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Speaker 1: like talking to your friends about certain things. It's just

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Speaker 1: you just do things and try things, and then a

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Speaker 1: lot of the things won't work out, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of things will work out, but you've got to do

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Speaker 1: so many things, Like I love that, I love that

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Speaker 1: I've probably got how old am I'm thirty seven, so

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Speaker 1: maybe like another fifty years or something to do everything

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Speaker 1: that I can possibly do. So I'm trying it all.

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Speaker 1: And why not? Is it an itch that you get?

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Speaker 2: Because I posted something last night saying that I personally

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Speaker 2: feel like I've reached a stage where I have big

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Speaker 2: new chapter energy, yes, but not enough time or brain

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Speaker 2: space to work out what that chapter.

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Speaker 1: It's also because you're really looking after Teddy at the moment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got the itch, but I don't have the

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Speaker 2: space to create.

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Speaker 1: Of course it is.

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Speaker 2: Do you get an itch? So for everyone listening, Anita

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Speaker 2: had Olivia and Co. Was your first business? Yes, and

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Speaker 2: that was a monogramming leather goods and accessories business. You've

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Speaker 2: since exited that, then the packaging plastic issue in that

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Speaker 2: business led to Hero Packaging, Yes, and that has now

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Speaker 2: got seventy three thousand customers. It is a multi billion

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Speaker 2: dollar business. But then you've since got how to sell

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Speaker 2: anything online. Like do you get itchy point in time?

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Speaker 2: Is it curiosity?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's curiosity. That's exactly what it is. Okay, It's

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Speaker 1: like I want to see if I can do it, Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like it's so fun. Also, I'm not doing that many things,

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Speaker 1: I don't think. You don't think. I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: a lot of different things. I don't think. So like

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Speaker 1: you could argue that about everybody and like all their

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Speaker 1: hobbies and what they want to do and stuff. I

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Speaker 1: am really picking the things that I really want to

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Speaker 1: do in my life. But I have to say as well,

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Speaker 1: I have the privilege of, like I have a husband

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Speaker 1: who does a lot of the parenting too, So like

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Speaker 1: I think we should just like be really clear about that,

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Speaker 1: because if I was doing the majority of the parenting,

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Speaker 1: there's absolutely no way you can like run like multiple

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Speaker 1: businesses and go traveling and do this and like speak

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Speaker 1: on stage and then go into state for this and

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Speaker 1: da da da. It's not possible. So there is a

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Speaker 1: privilege there, and I think a lot of if we're

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Speaker 1: speaking to women, a lot of women don't have the

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Speaker 1: same opportunity. So I don't want to be like, just

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Speaker 1: do it, it's easy. Yeah, it's not easy. And when

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Speaker 1: I am parenting and I find myself on my phone

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Speaker 1: and when the kids are around and I'm just like

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Speaker 1: doing things, and then I catch myself and like, this

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Speaker 1: is not work time. So I think when you don't

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Speaker 1: have the space, you don't have the space. But if

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Speaker 1: you've got the itch, I think the question is kind

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Speaker 1: of like if you've got the each where you don't

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Speaker 1: have the space, like or the time, what do you do?

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Speaker 1: I think you can have the building blocks to understand

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Speaker 1: what to do when you do have time and space,

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Speaker 1: because one of the biggest things about doing something is

435
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,639
Speaker 1: planning for it. So, for example, on a really small scale,

436
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,480
Speaker 1: if I want to create like thirty pieces of content, right,

437
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 1: I know that I don't have the time and the

438
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:38,680
Speaker 1: space if I've got the kids or I'm doing something

439
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,439
Speaker 1: and I'm busy. So what I'll do when I have

440
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,560
Speaker 1: even five minutes is make a plan of everything that

441
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 1: I need to create. And so when it comes time

442
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,439
Speaker 1: where I do have ten minutes free time, that's the

443
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 1: time where I've gone create it. So same thing with

444
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,639
Speaker 1: everything else. Like if you want to, for example, I

445
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 1: don't know, like write a book, you need to plan

446
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 1: it out, write out all the chapters, like the titles,

447
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:00,480
Speaker 1: and then go and write when you have the time,

448
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 1: not think about it at that time, because thinking and

449
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 1: executing at the same time is impossible. I love that.

450
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:08,360
Speaker 2: But that's so fascinating that you do do so much

451
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,400
Speaker 2: planning for your ideas once you have them.

452
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 1: But at a macro level you don't think about your chundry.

453
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 1: Is that such a contrary? I just say yes, yes, yes, yeah, interesting,

454
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 1: figure it out, okay.

455
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,240
Speaker 2: So one of the things I've read that you've said,

456
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,840
Speaker 2: so maybe for anyone who has tuned into this because

457
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,400
Speaker 2: they want to start a business, have started a business,

458
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 2: or have reached that really difficult part in business where

459
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 2: the starting isn't actually as hard as growing it. Like

460
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:33,959
Speaker 2: I feel like launching a business, you get a lot

461
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 2: of momentum from novelty. It's then after that it gets

462
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,640
Speaker 2: a little bit hard to grow it. But I feel

463
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 2: like a lot of people will have tuned in, you know,

464
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 2: at any of those stages because they're interested in business.

465
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,120
Speaker 2: One of the things that I have always said, which

466
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 2: I now scale back, is find a gap in the

467
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 2: market where you're the consumer and follow your passion. And

468
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 2: I loved reading from you that you recommend the opposite

469
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,680
Speaker 2: that you can't just go and do what you want

470
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 2: to do. You have to do what the market wants

471
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 2: you to do. So start there, maybe, Yeah, tell us

472
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 2: about when you do have a new idea, how do

473
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 2: you reverse engineer what you're going to do with it.

474
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 2: Because I stumbled into Matcher, I wasn't like the market

475
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 2: needs a Matcher.

476
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 1: I was like, I want Matcher. Yes, I mean that's

477
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 1: great and it worked so the the time. I don't

478
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 1: know about now. Well, ideally you have something that you

479
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 1: love and then also what the market wants, and then

480
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 1: you make a lot of money off of that, because

481
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,639
Speaker 1: that is just perfect. But if you have to choose

482
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 1: between what you want and what the market wants, you

483
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,160
Speaker 1: have to go with the market. I believe I will

484
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: always I will die on that hill like I and

485
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 1: a lot of people. When I said that on the

486
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 1: other podcast, a lot of people kind of got a

487
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,919
Speaker 1: little angry at me, and they were saying you know,

488
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 1: follow your passion, like I followed mine and I'm successful,

489
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 1: and I think that's amazing for you. But what you've

490
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 1: actually done is followed your passion and you've found what

491
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 1: the market wants. You haven't just followed your passion. The

492
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 1: market wants it, and therefore you're successful. So, for example,

493
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 1: if you follow what the market wants and not what

494
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 1: you want, you will be successful. If you follow what

495
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,199
Speaker 1: you want and not what the market wants, you want

496
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 1: be successful. And that's the truth. Yeah, it's really hard

497
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: to figure out what that is. I want to ask

498
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: you a question though, right, Yeah, because like you speak

499
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 1: all the time, you've got this podcast, you've tried a business.

500
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 1: So when you say you've got the itch, like, are

501
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 1: you wanting to start something for you something that you've

502
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,360
Speaker 1: been passionate about, or is it because like you've seen

503
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: a gap in the market. Yeah.

504
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 2: So this is actually why this is selfishly a really

505
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 2: good time for me to talk to you, is because

506
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 2: when we started Match Maiden, it was very much I

507
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 2: saw a gap in the market because I was in

508
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 2: the gap. So it's like what I was passionate about

509
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 2: and what the gap in the market was aligned and

510
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 2: timing aligned. Everything was like all these divine circumstances aligned.

511
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 2: Plus I was itchy to find something beyond my corporate pathway.

512
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: Now it's a little bit different.

513
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 2: I don't have the idea, and that's very unusual because

514
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 2: normally I have the idea and then I make space

515
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 2: for it. Now I've got the itch for the next

516
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 2: project and not the idea. So that was my question

517
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 2: for you. Is I always used to say, like, if

518
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 2: you want to start a business, don't reverse engineer the idea.

519
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,439
Speaker 2: Wait until you've got something that you are intimately familiar with,

520
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 2: or that's in your wheelhouse, or that you've got some

521
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 2: connection to. But hearing you say the opposite advice was

522
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 2: really interesting to me because I was like, actually, you

523
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 2: can reverse engineer an idea. Like speaking to, you know,

524
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 2: the founders of July recently, they were like, we have

525
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,880
Speaker 2: no idea about suitcases, Like we're not suitcase experts.

526
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: We just realized that there was a gap.

527
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, maybe you should reverse engineer the

528
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,400
Speaker 2: idea by looking at what gaps are available to exploit,

529
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 2: even if you don't have a connection with that.

530
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 1: I was like, maybe I was doing it all wrong.

531
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 1: I don't think you're doing it wrong. I think it's

532
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: more like I actually don't think there are that many

533
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: gaps anymore in the market. There are thousands of businesses

534
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: starting every single day trying to fill gaps, and there's

535
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 1: no more gap. So everything is competitive, everything is commoditized,

536
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: Everything looks the same to everybody. What you need to

537
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 1: do is find something that you really think that you

538
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: can do well in. So like something maybe that is

539
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: a passion point for you, and then look at all

540
00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: the businesses that are doing it and look where they're

541
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 1: going wrong, like look at all their bad reviews, and

542
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: look at lists, do some social listening, and type into

543
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 1: TikTok for example, whatever the industry that you want to

544
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 1: go into, type that in, see what customers are saying

545
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 1: about current brands, see where they're going wrong, and then

546
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 1: that's your gap. So that can be your specialty. I

547
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 1: don't necessarily think you can find a gap and it's

548
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: going to be perfect for the market. And then you

549
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: solve a problem. Every single problem I reckon has been solved. Yeah,

550
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: just solve it in a different way. Solve it in

551
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: a different way, and you could have your own spin

552
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: on things. And it's something that you are passionate about.

553
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: It's something that you might not be passionate about. But

554
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: if you're starting a business and you think I don't

555
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: know what to start it in, really think about like

556
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,239
Speaker 1: the industries you would love to go into, and then

557
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 1: just look at the brands that are doing it, look

558
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: at the bad stuff, and then create something that makes

559
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: that part of it better. And that's your advantage. Oh

560
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: I love that.

561
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: That was another piece of advice I took from this book.

562
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 2: So your latest book, How to Sell Anything Online, is

563
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,479
Speaker 2: incredibly practical. It's almost like it's own funnel, funneling you

564
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 2: through all the other funnels that you should go through

565
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: when you do start a business. And one thing I

566
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 2: found interesting was looking at your competitors bad reviews, because

567
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 2: people don't often think of that. I don't think that's

568
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 2: like an intuitive thing you would think.

569
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: Of, Oh, you don't stalk your competitors bad reviews. No.

570
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 2: I never did, but that's because we started in such

571
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 2: a different climate. There weren't any competitors, whereas now, of

572
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,479
Speaker 2: course I would be doing that. So anyone listening, that's

573
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 2: a really good tip. I also think, God, I'm so

574
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 2: all over the place, takes I have so many things

575
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 2: to ask you. I also think another thing that I

576
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 2: found really interesting about the way you've done things is

577
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 2: you have two very different streams of business for yourself.

578
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: You have Hero, which is a product.

579
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 2: Business, and then you have how to sell anything online,

580
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 2: which you have decided not to monetize. So that's also

581
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 2: kind of a contrasting. Decision to make one thing your

582
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 2: big monetizer and then you've kept one thing is kind.

583
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: Of actually libor let me tell you. Yeah, so explain, explain,

584
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 1: Explain the money side of it. Okay, So here at packaging,

585
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: it's an amazing business sometimes and sometimes I am like,

586
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: how will we survive this? And so there have been

587
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: times where we've like really really screwed up and we

588
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: have had no money. And the first thing that happens

589
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: is I check my revenue every single minute of the

590
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: day because I'm so worried that it's not going to come.

591
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 1: And so like when we are struggling with Hero and

592
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: those months where you think we didn't make a profit.

593
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: The reason I have created a personal brand is it's

594
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: my plan B for life because I'm so scared that

595
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: I will not succeed, and my husband is in the

596
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: business as well. And so if it doesn't do well,

597
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: when we stop paying ourselves, I have to have money

598
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: coming in from somewhere else. So when I say I've

599
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: stopped monetizing it, I've stopped monetizing it for the everyday

600
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: person who listens to me. But I monetize it through brands,

601
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 1: bigger brands who pay me to make content. But I'm

602
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: not doing coaching. I'm not doing like one on one

603
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: cause I'm not having like a course or anything like that.

604
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: I just need to make sure that I have enough

605
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: money coming in there so that when I go to

606
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: Woolies and I can put down my card and not

607
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 1: worry that today Hero hasn't given me enough money. And

608
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 1: that's the truth. Like this is it happens all the time.

609
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: There was a day like about a year ago or

610
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: maybe a year and a half, and was with my

611
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: girls at Wooli's and I tried to pay and it

612
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: was like no, like it got declined, and I looked

613
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: in the bank account and it was like a negative

614
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: thirty one dollars or something. And then people say, oh,

615
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: that you're so successful, la la la. It's not the

616
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: case like when you're in business every day is so different,

617
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: and so I think that's just something I really want

618
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: to say. Is like, the reason I have a personal

619
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: brand is actually my plan being in life's so if

620
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: you're hedging your best literally, so I will build an

621
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: audience that is so strong that no matter what I start,

622
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: they can some of them will follow me there and

623
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 1: I can monetize that in that way. And it's I

624
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 1: love creating content. It is I love marketing. I love

625
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: e commerce so much and I'm happy to be able

626
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: to do that. But in all honesty, it is a

627
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: plan B. It's a money thing for me to know why.

628
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: I mean, I love that you even own up to that,

629
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 2: because I think that most people wouldn't actually vocalize that,

630
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 2: and because there is pressure to say here, I is

631
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 2: doing so well, like to have that external perception that

632
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 2: it's bulletproof and that you do your personal branding on

633
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 2: the side, because it's so scary.

634
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: It's scary to be in business, Like it's not easy.

635
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: You could be at like thirty million dollars and be

636
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: scared every day. Yeah, you know you've got like the

637
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: Jane Lues who are at a hundred million dollars and

638
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: you know she's doing really well, and that's fine, but

639
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: we're not talking about that. We're talking about like my

640
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: size business and smaller and the struggles at the moment

641
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: with small business owners who are trying so hard to

642
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: like pay the next bill and then they get the

643
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: ATO debt and they're like, they're just they don't know

644
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: where to go. I just want them to see that

645
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: even though I've been in business for seven years with

646
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: Hero Packaging and people think it's super successful, there are

647
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: days where I'm really struggling to and I just want

648
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: I need everyone to know that it's like they're not

649
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: alone in that.

650
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 2: I love that you are really open about that on

651
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,719
Speaker 2: all of your channels, because I also felt that every

652
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 2: single day of matromaidan high or low, But even on

653
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 2: the really high days of a big win, I did

654
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 2: always have this overshadowing like when is it.

655
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: Or goanna run out?

656
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 2: I never relaxed into the success, and I don't know

657
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 2: what level of success it would have taken for me

658
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: to relax into that. And there was a part of me.

659
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if I've ever vocalized this like this,

660
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 2: but there was a part of me that I didn't

661
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 2: ever want to go back to law for what I

662
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 2: had to do day to day.

663
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: In that role. Like I did love parts of it.

664
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 2: I never thought about going back because I missed the

665
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 2: kind of work I was doing, but it almost by comparison,

666
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 2: felt a bit lazy. I was a bit lazy in

667
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 2: that job. I wasn't lazy. I worked very hard, but

668
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: I was lazy in that I just got to sit

669
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 2: and chill and just turn up and do my job.

670
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 2: But leaving on a float was not my role. And

671
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 2: now I always think about that, that relevance trap of

672
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 2: like I need to stay relevant so much so that

673
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 2: you don't enjoy the high moments because you're so worried

674
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 2: they'll be taken away.

675
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: I think we don't talk about that much, and I'm

676
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: worried all the time. Yeah, Like I will check sales

677
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: and if it's not a certain amount, and then even

678
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: if it is at a certain amount, I'm like, I

679
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: bet you tomorrow's going to be.

680
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

681
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: You can never just relax into it.

682
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 2: And I think you do have to have the kind

683
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 2: of personality that can cope with that, because for some

684
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 2: people it would be so consuming that you.

685
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: Actually, like I love the last page of this book

686
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: was your mum asking you. Are you enjoying your business?

687
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 2: And if you can't have the duality of enjoying and

688
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 2: being scared, then it's not worth it.

689
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: If it's going to.

690
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 2: Cost you your entire joy of your life, yes, then

691
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 2: maybe it's not for you.

692
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: But if you can have both, then it is. I

693
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: think you can also train yourself to learn to have

694
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: the thinker skin. Yeah, you can learn that. But people

695
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:38,719
Speaker 1: go into a thinking business is the amazing thing. I'm

696
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: going to earn so much money? Yeah?

697
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I do wonder if there would have been

698
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: a level if I'd ever just enjoyed the stability of it,

699
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 2: because you can create your own stability. Issh. But the

700
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 2: world seems to be moving faster and faster every year,

701
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 2: so I'm like, can you.

702
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: My advice to this is like, create yourself the backup plans. Yes,

703
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: have your plan Yes, have the Plan B. Have the

704
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: Plan C. So my Plan B is personal brand. My

705
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: Plan C is any money that I get I invest

706
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: into property, like that is my Plan C. It's my savings.

707
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: So while I'm cash poor, I am so cash poor, right,

708
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: but I put everything I can into property, so that

709
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: that's my savings. So that's my plan C. Yeah, that's

710
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: my advice to everyone. Don't put every single thing you

711
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: have into this business that you're starting. Don't do it.

712
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: It's so risky. It's not even about oh, you could fail,

713
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: it's just you need to make sure that at times

714
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: when business goes low, which it will, you've got all

715
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: this other stuff and you feel okay in your life

716
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: because even if that's low, you've got other stuff that

717
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: you're looking after, and it's looking after you too.

718
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 2: It's so interesting for someone who describes herself as very

719
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 2: like a high risk tolerance, like I've read you say

720
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 2: that you love risk, but you're also very you're hedged

721
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 2: against it at the same time.

722
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: So you have to have that foundation where like the

723
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: foundation is solid, that's no risk. That is like the

724
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: solid building. An audience is solid, and you know that

725
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: will serve you in the future. That's a future thing,

726
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: not a current thing. The current thing is to just like,

727
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: you know, spend all your money now and like just

728
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: do whatever you want and whatever. If you don't have

729
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: the foundations, you cannot take risks. You should be a

730
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: risk taker only when you've got the foundation sorted. That's

731
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: what I believe.

732
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 2: Yes, oh, my gosh, this is going all kinds of directions.

733
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I know it's great. It is so interesting,

734
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 2: and I've reflected a lot more than I was expecting

735
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 2: to about times in our businesses. But I do want

736
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 2: to get to picking your brain on what you are

737
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 2: truly brilliant at, and that's distilling an enormous amount of confusing, conflicting,

738
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 2: ever changing information about the land of e commerce into

739
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 2: really digestible snippets of actionable things people can do in

740
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 2: their businesses today. And I think that is why your

741
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 2: platforms have grown so fast, because you are just such

742
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 2: a clear voice of authority in a really approachable, accessible way.

743
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 2: So I'd love to ask you about what you think

744
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 2: are the three most important things right now for an

745
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 2: eco business. What are the things to grow, to grow,

746
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 2: to hedge, to flourish, just to generally safeguard themselves while growing.

747
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 2: I think if you were doing like a you know,

748
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 2: a health check on any kind of econ business right now,

749
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 2: everyone's main objective is to grow, but it's also to

750
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 2: kind of safeguard themselves for the future. It's also to

751
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 2: be able to weather the storm. It's to do marketing

752
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 2: and pr it's to enjoy the ride along the way.

753
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 2: On an overall level, what are the kind of three

754
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 2: things that you look for?

755
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: Okay, Number one, you need to have newness in your

756
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: business and you need to innovate or you'll die. And

757
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: that's the truth. So in this market, consumers, their share

758
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 1: of wallet is like it's not what it used to be.

759
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 1: People are spending less, and it's not even between competitors.

760
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: They're even just choosing between like a whole bunch of

761
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: different things, and so they've only got a small amount

762
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 1: of money to spend. Make sure that you are bringing

763
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: newness to your business all the time, and that's really

764
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: hard because that takes money and time as well. But

765
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: the unique of the offering, So like a new collection

766
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: or a new product all the time, or like a

767
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: limited edition, you know, collaboration with an influencer or some

768
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: bring newness to the business. People love that and people

769
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: enjoy that, and your customers will love that. You have

770
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: to innovate. So the example there is like with Hero,

771
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: we had mailers and that's all we did. We just

772
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: were like selling mailers. And when we went through a

773
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 1: period where we were going down, I had to take

774
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: a risk. Either it's like close the business, or it's

775
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: to take our personal savings and invest it into a

776
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: newness in the business. And for that it was manufacturing,

777
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 1: and so we bought our first manufacturing machine and luckily

778
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: that kind of we got to like serve a new

779
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: product to the same people and new product to new people.

780
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: So we grew through innovation, and I think everyone should

781
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: do that. The second thing I would say is I

782
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: could come into any business and I could save you

783
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: money because everyone is wasting so much money on so

784
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: much shit, because there's so much advice out there, like

785
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 1: this is the perfect tech stack for your business. This

786
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: is the perfect thing that you need to do, and

787
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 1: you need to invest in l D L H DA

788
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: da DA. I reckon, I could all that shit out. Yes,

789
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: you don't need so much of that, right, Like you

790
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 1: just need you your face, You need a few ads running,

791
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: like you can make money profitably. And all I want

792
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 1: is to see your bank account. So do you have

793
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: a cash runway of three months so that if all

794
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: of your expenses, like if you don't make revenue for

795
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: three months, for example, can you survive for three months?

796
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: That is something that I would absolutely say cash first,

797
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: not even profit it's like cash, profit revenue. That's what

798
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: you need to think about. That's the second thing, and

799
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 1: the third thing to grow your business is you're going

800
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 1: to need to invest into ads unfortunately. So like the

801
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: biggest thing is are you good at creating content? If not,

802
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: go learn how to do that and use that content,

803
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: the best performing organic content, and put it into your

804
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: paid spend and do it in a really economical way. So,

805
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: for example, if you know that people are searching for

806
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: marcher or like you know, pineapple marcher and they are

807
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: actively searching for on Google and you see, okay, seven

808
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: hundred people are searching for this keyword, run Google ads

809
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: to it. Like, actually run the Google ads forget Facebook

810
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: ads and run Google ads. That's my option. Other than that,

811
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 1: if they're not searching for it and you just want

812
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: to kind of go, oh, this is a really pretty product,

813
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: go onto Facebook ads. But those are my three things.

814
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: Like you need the newness, you need to focus on cash,

815
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: and then you need to spend money on ads in

816
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: order to be everywhere all at once.

817
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my gosh, I think that being everywhere thing,

818
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 2: like the fact that there are I was reading one

819
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 2: of the case studies of I think it was LFKD

820
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 2: maybe of you talking about how it's like eight to

821
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 2: ten touch points in your face before you make a purchase.

822
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: I think it was Stacks and like, yes, it's so true,

823
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: Like you need to be everywhere, all at once, and

824
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: one of the easiest ways to do that is through

825
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: content strategy on all platforms. Like two platforms that you

826
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: are absolutely comfortable with, So like for you, it's probably

827
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: Instagram and are you on TikTok?

828
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 2: Yeah?

829
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: Yeah? Are you on LinkedIn as well? Do you do

830
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: a lot bitt so like that, I would recommend that

831
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: as often as you post on Instagram and tito you

832
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: post on LinkedIn. I'm not even joking. So like one

833
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 1: platform that you're super uncomfortable with because you don't know

834
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 1: who's watching and it's got reach, Like why wouldn't you

835
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 1: do it? I know for what? For what reason? No one?

836
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 2: Like I think it is because you're scared of looking silly.

837
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 2: You're scared of it little flop. But I love that

838
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 2: you were saying two platforms you're familiar with too that

839
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,399
Speaker 2: you're not And like, for example, right now, where are

840
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 2: you running ads? Are you like running something on everywhere?

841
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 2: Or are you putting all your money into one.

842
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: Are you like the major that AD spend is on

843
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 1: Google because we need to acquire new customers all the time,

844
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 1: and so people are typing in sustainable packaging. Where can

845
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: I get sustainable all of that stuff? Is there are ads?

846
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 1: I think about sixty five percent, if not seventy percent

847
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: of our AD spent is Google and then Facebook after that.

848
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: And I've actually reduced Facebook because packaging is something that

849
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: people think about and they only buy it when they

850
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: need it, as opposed to I can't just it's disturb

851
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: their feet and be like, oh I need a compostible

852
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: mailer today, Like it's not like that. So Google is

853
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 1: where I spend everything.

854
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 2: Yeah. Interesting, And there's a couple of tips that were

855
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 2: in the books that I found really useful that were like,

856
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 2: how do you even like, I don't think a lot

857
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 2: of business owners would even know where to look for

858
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 2: what people are searching for? Like, if you do need

859
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 2: to grow your business, what are some of the hacks

860
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 2: of Like you should know what people are.

861
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: Searching for in your industry.

862
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 2: You should be looking at your competitors bad reviews and

863
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 2: improving on those things. Like what are the things you

864
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 2: would tell people to go and do for instant improvers.

865
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 2: Oh my god, go to Google keyword Planner, which is free,

866
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 2: and then type in what you think people are searching for.

867
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 2: It will not only spit out what you think people

868
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 2: are searching for, but also the related searches that people

869
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 2: are actually searching for, and it'll tell you how many

870
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 2: people are searching it for it per month in Australia

871
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 2: and also how much it'll cost you.

872
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: Per click too. Oh my god, that's like the easiest

873
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: thing that you can do. It's really interesting.

874
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 2: You have distilled it all in a way that sounds

875
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 2: so simple, and I'm sure in your brain the matrix

876
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 2: is really simple. But I think it's so overwhelming for

877
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 2: people who are in especially small businesses, who don't have

878
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,399
Speaker 2: the resources to kind of throw at all the platforms

879
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 2: and you know, you want to all of them at once.

880
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 2: But even for me, who's like native to quite a

881
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 2: lot of these platforms, still find some of them like

882
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 2: I have no idea what to post on LinkedIn. I

883
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: don't know about length, duration, time of day, format, Like

884
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 2: you're overthinking it whatever.

885
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: I think everyone is everyone. I'm saying it to everyone.

886
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: You yeah, plural, yeah, you plural are overthinking it. And

887
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: I think if you can like let go of the

888
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: what like what time you know that? What time do

889
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 1: I post on Instagram? Is that still a thing? No,

890
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: it's not still a thing? Is posted? Good content will

891
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: perform regardless of the time, regardless of like the little

892
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: caption that you put in there, right, If it's good content,

893
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: it will perform. And I'm also uncomfortable posting on LinkedIn

894
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: because I've got a lot of like professionals, you know,

895
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 1: and so I found it really hard. But when I did,

896
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: it got picked up in a news story and then

897
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 1: it got like, you know, I just spoke about a

898
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: hero went through a bad time. Da da dad, you know,

899
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: I told the whole story, had a little video in there.

900
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: Then I also had another one where Uniclo like used

901
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: our tissue paper and they became a client of So

902
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: I posted that on LinkedIn and there was a weird

903
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: video like it was me going to Uniklo and like

904
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: walking down a red carpet or a tissue paper. And

905
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,359
Speaker 1: then like the news people picked it up.

906
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: From LinkedIn and it was just amazing, like you don't

907
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 2: know who's watching, Like you've got to be everywhere and

908
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 2: if you're a small business.

909
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: Okay, content is your best friend because it's free, and

910
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: SEO is your best friend because it's free. But content,

911
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 1: the best thing about it is when you don't know

912
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,839
Speaker 1: who's watching, So then that content could get you onto

913
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: like articles and news stories and free pr as well.

914
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 1: And then also people could like tag other people and

915
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: especially on LinkedIn if someone comments, all their network sees

916
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: it too. So to be everywhere all at once, you've

917
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: got to put yourself in that really uncomfortable position. Yeah.

918
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 2: So do you think, and this is a question I

919
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 2: get all the time, do you think that founders do

920
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 2: have to have their personal brand, like their face out

921
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 2: as well?

922
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: No? I don't think so. If you're not comfortable with it,

923
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 1: don't do it. Like you can have a good product

924
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: and have great advertising and you spend a lot on

925
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: ads and stuff and you can and it may have

926
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: a very successful business. If you look at LSKD Jason,

927
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: he wasn't like the face face of it. He grew

928
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: a business without his face and he was able to

929
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: do that why because he spent a lot of money

930
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: on ads And that's the truth. He's like, you've got

931
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: to either do the founder content be there and all

932
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: the time, and you get out there that way and

933
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: it's free, but you've got to spend a lot of

934
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:22,720
Speaker 1: time in it, or you pay a lot of money

935
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: to get other platforms to do the work for you. Yeah,

936
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: that's interesting. Yeah, so you don't need to do it,

937
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: but if you don't do it, you have to kind

938
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 1: of have a Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting.

939
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:35,280
Speaker 2: Okay, what about I see you often do amazing roundups

940
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 2: of what you've seen in the business space in the

941
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 2: last week, or I think you do it every week. Yeah,

942
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 2: what are some of the best strategies that you're seeing

943
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 2: around and some of them I like that you call

944
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 2: some of them unethical but incredibly effective.

945
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: What are some of the.

946
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 2: Things that you've seen done really well that you would recommend.

947
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 1: I just think you've got to do gorilla marketing as

948
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: a small business. So do you know the brand? Girls

949
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: get off? So I love what she does. She and

950
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: it's it's mortifying to watch because you can't I can't

951
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: watch it if my parents are around. I can't watch

952
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:06,919
Speaker 1: it if you know, like my kids are around, even

953
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: my husband, I'm like, ah, sorry. She dressed as a

954
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 1: vagina and went to Bondai beach or something, and like

955
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 1: she made people dance in front of her or do

956
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: a sexy dance to get a free vibrator. Right, did

957
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: that get her a lot of sales from those people?

958
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: I don't think so. But what it did was it

959
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: stretched out her content for the next six months. Like

960
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 1: you can stretch that out, you can put that into it. Well,

961
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 1: she can't put into ads, but you can put that

962
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,720
Speaker 1: into like anywhere you want on your website. It becomes

963
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: funny and taggable and shareable and savable and it's free

964
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: except for the vagina costume. May have to buy it.

965
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: I mean you've probably made that.

966
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 2: She could make you know, tutorials on how to make

967
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 2: a vagina costume.

968
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: This is the thing that and like people take photos

969
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: of it and like tag them, and it just makes

970
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: you stand out when like there's so much competition for vibrators,

971
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: for example, So I think if you can do goerrilla marketing.

972
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,800
Speaker 1: Another one was Apparol. Did you see the one where Aparol,

973
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: Like they've got a hundred people to walk around the

974
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: CBD with fake Apparol like cocktails and everyone was just

975
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: talking about Apparol and like all the tags or apparol,

976
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: like the clothes, the trays, the drinks, everything, and it

977
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: was just like a sea of people walking around. And yes,

978
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: you have to hire one hundred people, but if you've

979
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: got friends, like you walk around in like full on merche,

980
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 1: or you can dress up and just walk around the

981
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 1: city and like talk about the brand or like show something.

982
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: And I just feel like the gorilla marketing side of

983
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 1: things is not only good for brand awareness, but then

984
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 1: it's good for you because it stretches your content and

985
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 1: puts less pressure on you every day to create something

986
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: new because you've got this wild event that you did

987
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 1: that you can like pull pieces from and do that. Similarly,

988
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 1: like if I'm on this podcast and we've got this video,

989
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 1: like I can pull ten pieces of that and like

990
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: stretch it out. So you've got to do the thing

991
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: that you can use for content and stretch it. So

992
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: that's what I would say, Like I love all the

993
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: gorilla marketing stuff. What's working for brands right now is

994
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: it's really high. It's really really hard to stay interesting,

995
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: I will say, and I'll come back to the innovating

996
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 1: of product. I think limited addition, using someone with influence

997
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: to co like create a product with you and using

998
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 1: their audience to sell is one of the best ways

999
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 1: to grow to this day. Worked ten years ago and

1000
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: it works to this day. But you've got to pick

1001
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 1: the right person of influence, yes, because like I have

1002
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: used an influencer in the past two million followers and

1003
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 1: I got nothing from it. Yeah, but I realized if

1004
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: you find the right people, their audience can do so much.

1005
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: You know, one of my friends who has a mascara brand,

1006
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: gave the mascara to Abby Chatfield. Abby Chatfield posted about

1007
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: it on her stories, like one story, and this girl

1008
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 1: sold like four hundred mascaras. You've got to pick the

1009
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: right people with the right influence. But I think that's

1010
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: working really well. Yeah.

1011
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 2: So influencer marketing is always a topic that gets so

1012
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 2: many questions, and I think there is a bit and

1013
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 2: you mentioned this in the book, that there is a

1014
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 2: beer bit of a negative connotation kind of starting to

1015
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 2: come out that influencer marketing is dead. But I think

1016
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 2: it's it's just evolved. It's a little bit different to

1017
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 2: how it used to be. But do you think it's

1018
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 2: still really powerful? And I don't think it in.

1019
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: That what you like, you can't just hold up a product. Yeah,

1020
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,399
Speaker 1: but I do think that if you collaborate with them

1021
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: and they like are really invested in it. So like,

1022
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: look what happened with for example, Booth Rachel Wild and

1023
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 1: they are with Indie Clinton is Indie Clinton, and so

1024
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 1: because she's got such a strong following and she is

1025
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 1: invested in the brand, like you can just see that

1026
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: her audience is super invested in the brand too, and

1027
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: it's making booth They sold twenty thousand units in two

1028
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: weeks now, so you know what I mean? Like, I

1029
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,280
Speaker 1: think influencer marketing done right by picking the right influence

1030
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 1: that was not influence that person who has influence, and

1031
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 1: actually collaborating with them on the product itself. I like

1032
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: it for a limited edition piece because I think you

1033
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 1: get the word out there, but you don't it's like

1034
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be an ongoing thing. Yeah. Yeah,

1035
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: what about for B to B.

1036
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 2: I had a couple of questions because you do have

1037
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 2: a unique challenge with Hero being you're selling to businesses

1038
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 2: more than you're selling to a direct consumer. Do you

1039
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,240
Speaker 2: still find influencer marketing useful?

1040
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: Well? Yeah, I mean I don't use it as much anymore.

1041
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: I think that B to B is less about influencer

1042
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: marketing and it's more about can you look interesting in

1043
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: a boring space. That's how I find B to B

1044
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: marketing needs to move down. I think I had a

1045
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: question when I was speaking on stage about a month ago,

1046
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: and they were like, I'm trying to get these new,

1047
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 1: big corporate clients. How do I like, I don't want

1048
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 1: to create content that looks silly or fun because they're

1049
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 1: not going to take me seriously. I said, that's your

1050
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 1: first mistake, because you're not speaking to a business as

1051
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 1: a whole. You're speaking to the marketing manager, who could

1052
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 1: be gen Z. You could be speaking to, you know,

1053
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 1: the e com person, the warehouse person. They're all people

1054
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, and they all want

1055
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,359
Speaker 1: to be entertained. They all want to do like they

1056
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 1: all want to feel connected to something. And so for

1057
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,839
Speaker 1: me with Hero, the way that we stand out more

1058
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: than anything else is that when we get a big

1059
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 1: brand on board, I'll make a bunch of silly videos

1060
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: around it, like absolutely ridiculous. And like when we got Disney,

1061
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 1: you know, like we dressed as Disney princesses and we

1062
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 1: were like, you know, printing the orders and stuff like that,

1063
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,359
Speaker 1: and then other brands are like, oh my god, they've

1064
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: got Disney, but no one is like, oh my god,

1065
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 1: they look so silly. They're meant to be professional. You know,

1066
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 1: we announce it in a way that's interesting because if

1067
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: I just said, oh, we got Disney as a client,

1068
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: I'd get three likes for that. I don't want three likes.

1069
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: I want eight hundred likes.

1070
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 2: You know.

1071
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: That's the difference. So if you're in B to B,

1072
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 1: be more interesting than what you think you need to

1073
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: be and don't be afraid to have the B two

1074
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 1: C approach when you're targeting B to B clients.

1075
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 2: And then if you're B two C and in eCOM,

1076
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 2: do you think that that need to be across Influencer

1077
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 2: marketing is still there.

1078
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: It's still really powerful, only if you can collaborate properly

1079
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: with the right influencer. It has to be the right one,

1080
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: and there's not many. There's really not many people. It's

1081
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 1: so surprising, but there are really not that many people

1082
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: who have influence in a certain category. If you're going

1083
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: to get a generalized influencer who's known for fashion and

1084
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: sport and travel and this and that, and then on

1085
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: one hundred things, it's going to be really hard. But

1086
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 1: if say, for example, someone is constantly traveling and they're

1087
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: just known for it, they've got five kids, they travel

1088
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 1: all the time, and they have all the hacks, and

1089
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 1: you're a parent brand, that influencer is going to do

1090
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 1: so well for you co create a parenting backpack to

1091
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: go traveling with them and like go all out because

1092
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 1: I reckon that would work.

1093
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 2: It's actually so funny you said parent backpack because one

1094
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 2: of the brands that submitted a question for you was

1095
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:37,760
Speaker 2: how to build customer trust when you're a new brand.

1096
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 2: And this is a new parent backpack who I've actually

1097
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 2: done a partnership with recently because we are traveling constantly

1098
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 2: as new parents. But the price point is quite high

1099
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,760
Speaker 2: because it is such a high performance product, is waterproof,

1100
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 2: it's got recyclable materials, it's got fifty five million pockets,

1101
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 2: it addresses all of the difficulties with bottomless pit like

1102
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,479
Speaker 2: big storage. It has a side opening access. But it's new.

1103
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 2: So how do you build customer loyalty and trust when

1104
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 2: you're brand new and they are parting with quite a

1105
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:07,399
Speaker 2: lot of money per unit?

1106
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think you need to think about it.

1107
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: If you are the customer, what do you look for first?

1108
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: Because a lot of new parents, when you've got more

1109
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 1: than one kid, you don't give a shit about the bag,

1110
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: brack anyone you're like, just you're targeting. They are specifically

1111
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: targeting new parents because new parents spend more on their

1112
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 1: first kid. And so I think the first thing to

1113
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 1: do is like, go, okay, okay. The question is influencer

1114
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: marketing with this? I don't know, So I don't know how,

1115
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: Like obviously you would work, but it's there's not many

1116
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 1: people who are going to work for them. I think

1117
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: like if you put your name to it, if you

1118
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: said this was designed by you based on your needs,

1119
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: I reckon it would do even better. Like I loved

1120
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 1: the co collaboration of a product itself and not just

1121
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: the posting about it, because the posting about it sometimes

1122
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Right when people realize that

1123
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: you're posting about it because it's Brandon, it may it

1124
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 1: might not work, But I like that co collaboration and

1125
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 1: stuff for them. How do you get trust? You need

1126
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 1: to have a shit ton of reviews. So the first

1127
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 1: thing you need to do is go and incentivize like

1128
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: five thousand people to leave you a review on this thing,

1129
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 1: and so that means you might need to send free

1130
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: products to people. Might mean that you stand on the

1131
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: street at Bondi Beach and say like, hey, can you

1132
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 1: in front of me review this backpack and tell me

1133
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:19,879
Speaker 1: what you like about it? Take that what they say

1134
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: and put it as a review on your website or

1135
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: on social media. You can take a clip of that

1136
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: and put that anywhere you want. I think that customer

1137
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: trust will only come from other customers who've tried it

1138
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: and love it. And then if they type into whatever

1139
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:33,240
Speaker 1: the brand is called, if they type that into TikTok,

1140
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 1: or they type in baby backpack into TikTok, and they

1141
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: can see that the first four videos are of people

1142
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 1: talking about that brand, that's customer trust. I honestly think

1143
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 1: it's just comes down to how many times you see

1144
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 1: it from different people, and it cannot come from the

1145
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: brand itself. So like the reviews, the tags, the mentions,

1146
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: are they getting enough of that? And if not, can

1147
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,399
Speaker 1: they kind of manufacture that a little bit?

1148
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 2: What about that search in TikTok makes me think of

1149
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 2: a video you did recently on what you called an

1150
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 2: unethical strategy for witch Hazel.

1151
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 1: It's for so many brands. All good, yeah, tell us

1152
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: about this, okay. So what I noticed was like, there's

1153
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: this trend on TikTok where someone is just like lying

1154
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: in bed and they just looking at the camera, and

1155
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 1: the text on screen is tell me the most unethical

1156
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 1: or like unhinged way you've done this, or what product

1157
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 1: made you lose a lot of weight or give you

1158
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: the best skin of your life. And then in the

1159
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 1: comment section there's like forty thousand comments right of all

1160
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: these videos, and you'll start to notice like one brand

1161
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 1: keep coming up, and so other people will just be

1162
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 1: commenting other stuff. But then all of a sudden, like

1163
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 1: for this one particular video, it was like witch Hazel.

1164
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: And then someone's like I just tried witch Hazel, And

1165
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 1: someone was like, does a witch has actually work?

1166
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 3: A da da?

1167
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 1: And I just saw that, and I thought, is this

1168
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 1: Witch Hazel getting bots and just buying the comments section

1169
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 1: so that people buy it? Because even I was like

1170
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 1: I want to buy witch Hazel. I don't know what

1171
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: it does. The number of times I've seen Sarah Vey

1172
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 1: or however you pronounce it coming up in the comments.

1173
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: There the Blue comment and then people talking about them.

1174
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: I'm like, have they bought class? Yes? Have they? Is

1175
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,720
Speaker 1: that what it is? Of course? I think so, because

1176
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 1: how can it be? How can it be? That's like

1177
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands saying the same thing if it was organic.

1178
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: There are so many products in this world that people

1179
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,879
Speaker 1: would recommend. Why are those ones constantly coming up? It's

1180
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 1: what happened with the Amber Heard and Johnny deppcase you know,

1181
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 1: they manufactured the bots to make you think a certain way.

1182
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 1: Same thing with Blake Lively and that other guy like it.

1183
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 1: They manufacture the bots to make you go a certain way.

1184
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: This has been happening for years and years, but I

1185
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: think brands are now doing it so that even if

1186
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: like they don't are not mentioned in the video itself,

1187
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:40,839
Speaker 1: no one's talking about that, but in the comment section,

1188
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:43,840
Speaker 1: which is where everyone runs to anyway, and their brands

1189
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: are there. Like, I mean, it's pretty brilliant. It is

1190
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 1: really ethical, and it is because obviously it's an ad

1191
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:54,959
Speaker 1: or like they bought that undisclosed form of while there's

1192
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 1: no kind of like law stuff around.

1193
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 2: Are you constantly looking at stuff like that and thinking

1194
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 2: how can I?

1195
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 1: Well, I don't do it for myself, but I like

1196
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,800
Speaker 1: recognizing it and telling everyone else about it. Yeah. Interesting.

1197
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 2: Is there anything that you see businesses constantly doing? Like, so,

1198
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 2: on the one hand, you're always highlighting businesses that are

1199
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 2: doing really amazing marketing campaigns. Is there anything that you

1200
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 2: see constantly that people are doing wrong?

1201
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 1: You spend so much time on a piece of content

1202
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:20,760
Speaker 1: to get five likes, don't do that piece of content,

1203
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 1: like there's no point, just pivot. You gotta like ultimately,

1204
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 1: what you want out of everything that you do is

1205
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 1: you're going to get the maximum juice from that squeeze.

1206
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,919
Speaker 1: And so if you are like doing this so like say,

1207
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 1: for example, I've got your what would you call it,

1208
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 1: not a notebook but a flipbook, a flipbook, Like I've

1209
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 1: got your flipbook here and stuff. And if you just

1210
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: were like you've took a photo of it and like,

1211
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:43,279
Speaker 1: or you've got a model to hold it up and

1212
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,399
Speaker 1: you did a photo shoot around it or whatever, that's

1213
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 1: never going to do well July Suitcase like they do

1214
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 1: okay with their professional shoots, I guarantee you, and I've

1215
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: seen it when the founders get on there and they're interviewed.

1216
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 1: Of course, the reach is much higher. All that stuff

1217
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,280
Speaker 1: is like for me, it's like the raw ugly stuff

1218
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 1: was always going to work. If you want your engagement

1219
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: ugly stuff, the raw ugly stuff, if you want. No

1220
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:11,360
Speaker 1: one wants the pretty stuff, No one different shit about it. Yeah,

1221
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 1: So the stuff that I think I still see happening

1222
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 1: even though everyone's talked about this like forever and ever. Like,

1223
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,240
Speaker 1: if you're still doing all of your really pretty stuff

1224
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:21,839
Speaker 1: and you spend so much time on good content and

1225
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 1: you're getting five likes for it, you're wasting your time

1226
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 1: and you're wasting your money, and you're wasting everyone else's time.

1227
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 1: So like you need to start going, Okay, well that's

1228
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 1: not working. What can I do that's better? And you

1229
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 1: need to look at other people who are getting really

1230
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,879
Speaker 1: high engagement, and then you need to see what they're

1231
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 1: doing and copy and not copy like word for word,

1232
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 1: I mean copy like take their idea, look at their hook,

1233
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 1: look at the time of their video, look at the

1234
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 1: like if it's a twelve second long video, you do

1235
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 1: a twelve second video. You do what they did in

1236
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: your own way and put your own spin on it.

1237
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 1: Like I want people to think, if I'm going to

1238
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 1: run an ad and I'm like, it's not performing, well,

1239
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,640
Speaker 1: you're not going to keep that changing, change the changed,

1240
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: like the creative around it. Maybe it's like you're spending

1241
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 1: too little, maybe you're spending too much. But everything that

1242
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: you do as a small business, it needs to generate

1243
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:10,839
Speaker 1: more than the effort you're putting in. Yes, and that's

1244
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,360
Speaker 1: really hard to know how to do that. But people

1245
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 1: aren't willing to test things enough in order to get

1246
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 1: the best results. They just do the same thing over

1247
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 1: and over because they're uncomfortable with like trying something new.

1248
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 2: I love your emphasis on test and learn, test and learn,

1249
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 2: and always be like, yeah, if it's not working, change it,

1250
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 2: try it again, try something else again. Are you ever

1251
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 2: running betads? Like are you running one one way and

1252
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 2: one the other and seeing which is doing better?

1253
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: Yeah? So the way that the ad campaign works is

1254
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,400
Speaker 1: that you set up the campaign, then you choose an audience,

1255
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 1: which now they're not allowing you to do anymore. But

1256
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 1: in one campaign you can have multiple ads, so you

1257
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 1: can have like, say, for example, if it's a coffee cup,

1258
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 1: you can have an image of a coffee cup. Then

1259
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 1: you can have a video of Sarah drinking from the

1260
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 1: coffee cup, and then you can have perhaps like you

1261
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 1: passing it to someone, then you can have a carousel

1262
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,440
Speaker 1: of the coffee cup. So it's the same thing but

1263
00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 1: in different formats, and meta will essentially choose where the

1264
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 1: budget goes, so obviously if you're testing it, and then

1265
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 1: it'll automatically put more money towards what's working for the

1266
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 1: better one.

1267
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and for anyone who does feel like this whole

1268
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 2: world of ads, I mean one of the biggest things

1269
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 2: that I get from your content all the time is

1270
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:14,880
Speaker 2: you need to be investing in ads like that is

1271
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 2: you just need to in business?

1272
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: I think.

1273
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 2: So it is such an overwhelming place. Is it recommended

1274
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 2: to do it yourself and learn more and try and

1275
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 2: learn how to do it? Do you get an agency?

1276
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 2: Like what is your kind?

1277
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 1: Don't get an agency? That's silly, really, no, that's silly.

1278
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 2: I think people feel so disempowered about how.

1279
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 1: Why would you Why would you get an agency if

1280
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: you don't even know how to do it yourself. So

1281
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 1: you can get an agency as you scale and have

1282
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 1: no more time to do it yourself because you understand

1283
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 1: what to ask for and look for when they're doing

1284
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 1: the war, I love it. You're passing on work that

1285
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: you don't know how to do. How do you know

1286
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 1: if they're going to do a good job. Most of

1287
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: the time they won't anyway, So you're not going to

1288
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 1: give two thousand dollars a month to something and then

1289
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 1: on top of the ad spend as well. That's ridiculous.

1290
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 1: Put that cash. Keep the cash. Learn it yourself over

1291
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 1: one day. I guarantee you if you learn. If you

1292
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 1: go to YouTube and type in like meta ads for

1293
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 1: beginners like start from scratch, take a day, set it

1294
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 1: up forever, you will. What do they say about the

1295
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 1: fishermen fish thing? You know, you catch your fish or

1296
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 1: whatever you learn whatever that thing, learn how to fish.

1297
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 2: There's actually another quote that I really loved from this

1298
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:26,479
Speaker 2: book from Gudarat in India, which was that it takes

1299
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 2: a thousand hours to be an expert in something. Yeah,

1300
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 2: which one thousand hours is a lot of hours, but

1301
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 2: it's like you can actually master a lot of different things.

1302
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 2: Actually a five days days yeah, okay, So but like

1303
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 2: the point is we often spend two days and then

1304
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 2: we're like I can do it, and it's like, well

1305
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 2: you gave it two days, Like give it a give

1306
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:44,600
Speaker 2: it more tott longer, You're not going to learn how

1307
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 2: to fly violin and to.

1308
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 1: Always say like, if you want to go viral, create

1309
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: fifty videos today and one of them will go viral.

1310
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: Like I believe that you create fifty videos and post

1311
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 1: fifty videos today and I guarantee you one of them

1312
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 1: will go viral.

1313
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 2: And it was interesting you also said it took you

1314
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 2: like ten years or something before your first video got

1315
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 2: like two hundred thousand views, like you've been creating content

1316
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 2: for so long before like the first one you got

1317
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 2: not the secret source, but you kind of you know,

1318
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 2: you do actually have to try for quite a long

1319
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 2: time before you work out your sisters.

1320
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 1: And actually have a question for you. Do you care

1321
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 1: about how your content performs ndred percent? Do you look

1322
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 1: at it and like all the to worried about it?

1323
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 2: And so I love that you asked me this question

1324
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 2: because a couple of weeks ago I had a massive

1325
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 2: spiral about like I feel like, because there's no transparency

1326
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 2: around the algorithms on any of the platforms, that there

1327
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 2: are times where you have really high engagement and also

1328
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 2: it could correspond with your content being really good. But

1329
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 2: then there's times where the content is similar level quality

1330
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:42,919
Speaker 2: and your habits haven't changed, and it's just flat. There's

1331
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 2: just times where I also think it's affected by what

1332
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 2: brands are running ads on your accounts as well, But

1333
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 2: who knows. I mean, we're all just guessing. If I'm

1334
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 2: in a down spiral one hundred percent. I'm like, I'm irrelevant.

1335
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 2: That relevance game that I asked you about in the beginning,

1336
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's and what is my plan being?

1337
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 1: I don't know what do I reckon? Sometimes we feel

1338
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 1: like our value is just wholly related to how many

1339
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 1: likes you get? Is my God, tell people all the

1340
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 1: time you're worthy? Is not your engagement on Instagram?

1341
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:14,439
Speaker 2: And then I'm literally having a breakdown about how like, yeah,

1342
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:16,439
Speaker 2: my reel didn't get the same views as the last one.

1343
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 1: I am constantly looking at my analytics and it's so bad,

1344
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 1: isn't it. Social media works in so many complicated ways,

1345
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 1: not just when you're looking at someone and you're like, oh,

1346
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 1: she's so pretty and I'm not. And then also when

1347
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: you post something and it doesn't do as well. Yeah mood,

1348
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 1: my mood, Yeah I'm yeah, I'll say to big I'm

1349
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 1: feeling really sad and he's like why. I'm like, cause, my.

1350
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 2: God, nix, I put it down and he can tell

1351
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 2: because I'll rewatch it over and over to like overthink it.

1352
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 1: And he's like, I can hear the audio you're slon

1353
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 1: going like, I send it, send it to VIC so

1354
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 1: that it's got engagement. And then I'm like, you're saying

1355
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:59,440
Speaker 1: it recently. I was like, going on this post it

1356
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 1: was for a break. Pump is like, what can I

1357
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 1: even say? You didn't know you. I send it to

1358
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 1: vic secret account, so I get a secret lie. Oh

1359
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: my god.

1360
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 2: So when my friends are like this one isn't doing well,

1361
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 2: I go on from the CZA account, I'm like, gal,

1362
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 2: I gotcha.

1363
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 1: Send it to my safe I watch it twelve times

1364
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 1: to make sure it goes. We should have done a

1365
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 1: whole episode on this.

1366
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 2: I feel like, generally it's the side that logically my

1367
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 2: brain knows my worth is not measured by Yes, it's

1368
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 2: not a popularity contest, blah blah blah. I'm like, it

1369
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 2: is literally a popularity context is the Internet is a

1370
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 2: popularity contest.

1371
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 1: A game, and you've got to win, and that's how

1372
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 1: it feels.

1373
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 2: And it is actually based on the input you give

1374
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 2: it that is based on what you thought was good,

1375
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:46,479
Speaker 2: and then it doesn't. When it flops, it's like, I'm shit,

1376
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 2: it's so true. So so do you unravel your identity

1377
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 2: from this, especially now that like my plan B what

1378
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,400
Speaker 2: I had hedge. I had a product, business and a

1379
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 2: personal profile. We sold the business, I had a baby.

1380
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 2: I don't have another business. So all of my eggs

1381
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 2: are in the content basket at the moment, and it

1382
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 2: does well.

1383
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 1: It's not though you do public speaking that you get

1384
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 1: paid for. You're get em seeing like that's your money maker.

1385
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 2: But I am the product in all of those buckets,

1386
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 2: if that makes sense. So I'm less hedged than when

1387
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 2: I had stood two categories of project and I feel

1388
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 2: like that does make it very hard for someone who's

1389
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 2: initial fora into the professional world was that my brain

1390
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 2: was and the output of my work was what validated me.

1391
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:38,120
Speaker 2: Now it is literally who I am as a person

1392
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 2: and the content that I'm putting out, which I love doing,

1393
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 2: and I feel like the stupid funny reels that I

1394
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 2: get so much joy from that aren't sponsored, that don't

1395
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 2: promote anything except laughter. Has been my strategy for enjoying

1396
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:55,920
Speaker 2: the platform and taking it less seriously because I was

1397
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 2: just like, oh my god, and like way too consumed

1398
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 2: by it all the time. Still, it's just like I

1399
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 2: will posts sometimes because I'm like, of course, shit, I

1400
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:05,680
Speaker 2: don't want anyone to see that, and no one will

1401
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 2: see it because it was shit. So it was because

1402
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 2: I took it down because I left it there.

1403
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,920
Speaker 1: I just like my advice to everyone is always just like,

1404
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 1: leave it, no, babe, I'll tell you why. But i'll

1405
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 1: tell you why no, not about that. It's because by

1406
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 1: you posting, you're already ahead of like the ninety nine

1407
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 1: percent of people who delete. Yeah, and also, I'm so

1408
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 1: scared if you can just leave it there and realize

1409
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:29,919
Speaker 1: that no one's going to your profile and looking at

1410
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:32,120
Speaker 1: like the stuff. They're just seeing it for what it

1411
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:34,040
Speaker 1: is and moving on with their day. Yeah, they're not

1412
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 1: looking at like the last six posts. Let me come

1413
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 1: for that as I am.

1414
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1415
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:43,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy. It's really bad, and I hope this

1416
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 1: normalizes it for everyone listening, because I think everyone does it.

1417
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't do enough. I don't like it

1418
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:52,120
Speaker 1: when people are like I don't care about my LIGs.

1419
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 1: I'm like, yes, you do. I know, I think everyone

1420
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 1: does because it's a form of validation one hundred percent.

1421
01:03:57,360 --> 01:04:00,120
Speaker 2: And I feel like sometimes I am liberated from it,

1422
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 2: Like sometimes I'm not as worried about it when I,

1423
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:06,439
Speaker 2: for example, on TikTok if I'm doing I care less

1424
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 2: about TikTok than Instagram because it's not my.

1425
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 1: Book Instagram, it's your community.

1426
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I feel like a little bit more

1427
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 2: liberated from it there. And if that's something doesn't go well,

1428
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, I know you guys don't really know

1429
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 2: me anyway, so like whatever. But when it goes well,

1430
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 2: I am like, ah, I'm so cool right now, I

1431
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 2: went if something goes viral, I'm in the best mood.

1432
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 1: But it is.

1433
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 2: It is funny how much it does, And especially since

1434
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:30,240
Speaker 2: I've had Teddy. Now I'm like, I need to care

1435
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,960
Speaker 2: less about this because my real world life is amazing

1436
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 2: and I can't let this affect my mood. Even though

1437
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 2: it is like where I leave I live on the internet.

1438
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:40,720
Speaker 1: It's my career. Like it's hard, I know, and that's

1439
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 1: the hardest part for so many people. You start a

1440
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:45,440
Speaker 1: business and then I'm like, create content, run ads, like

1441
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 1: they all have to perform and that's part of the

1442
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:51,080
Speaker 1: success of your brand. Yeah, that's really hard.

1443
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's also there are also so many good

1444
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:55,680
Speaker 2: parts of it as well. It's just like you've got

1445
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:59,120
Speaker 2: to choose, Like we talked about it at the very beginning,

1446
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 2: like full circle, what your definition of success and fulfillment

1447
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 2: and joy is, Like know your risk areas where you

1448
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:07,440
Speaker 2: can get out of control, and put in boundaries to

1449
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 2: like protect you from that. Know the things that make

1450
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 2: you feel good and that feel and how to avoid

1451
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:14,400
Speaker 2: the things that don't or minimize those things.

1452
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 1: And sometimes it is just like put the phone away,

1453
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 1: you're spiraling, Like put it away, yeah, and play pickaball

1454
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 1: and love Pickaball in your spare time. That's literally like

1455
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 1: my last is it because it's like what do you

1456
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 1: do for joy? What do you do for you? Like

1457
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 1: that's you have to play. Discovered it in December and

1458
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 1: it's June, so I've been playing it for seven months.

1459
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 1: But it is the best thing that's ever happened to

1460
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:43,880
Speaker 1: me other than that kid.

1461
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 2: Sorry and my husband, Oh my god, we did never

1462
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 2: get into the juggle hol shit.

1463
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 1: I have had so many questions to ask you.

1464
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,400
Speaker 2: This is my problem when I get really excited about

1465
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:55,520
Speaker 2: a particular person. I actually do worse interviews, but.

1466
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 1: I gcause I'm more contributed to this because I'm like,

1467
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 1: what about you, Like, let's talk about us?

1468
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:05,080
Speaker 2: So interesting, But it means, like I think, I struggle

1469
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 2: when i've read someone's book as well, because then I

1470
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 2: know too many dot points. Yeah, like I want to

1471
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:12,440
Speaker 2: cover everything, but then sometimes I'm like, just stay on.

1472
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, I can't think is a good way to

1473
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 1: kind of bring it all together because it's like the

1474
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: things that I'm choosing to do in my life. I'm like,

1475
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 1: the things that I'm so excited about. One is the

1476
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:24,919
Speaker 1: kids and the families. Let's start there number one. Okay,

1477
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 1: love the three kids, and I love that they're girls

1478
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 1: and that they're older and the eldest like packs the lunches.

1479
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 1: For I love to see that I'm raising good people.

1480
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 1: I actually don't care about I care about their schooling,

1481
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:40,840
Speaker 1: but I don't care so much about their academics because

1482
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:42,320
Speaker 1: I was I don't know if it was the same

1483
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 1: with you, but I was brought up just academics, academics, academics.

1484
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:47,120
Speaker 1: For me, I'm just trying to raise them to really

1485
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:51,200
Speaker 1: nice and good individuals who can talk to anybody and

1486
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:53,800
Speaker 1: can see me on stage. And now my eldest who's

1487
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:56,080
Speaker 1: very shy, all she wants to do is like public

1488
01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 1: speaking and do drama. But she's never been like that.

1489
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 1: And I think I helped it that and I can

1490
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 1: see development as a parent. It's the coolest thing in

1491
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 1: the entire world to see what you've taught them they're

1492
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 1: displaying in their acts. And I'm like, that's amazing. Like

1493
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:14,360
Speaker 1: it's anyway, so pride and joy and enjoy. Let's leave

1494
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:19,960
Speaker 1: that there. Pickootball is another thing that I found joy in,

1495
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: simply because I've never played sport in my life. I've

1496
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 1: never been a sporty person because Indian friends are like, no,

1497
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 1: just immediately just watch you watch cricket or you like

1498
01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 1: do tutoring. There's no like then you don't play sport.

1499
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:37,120
Speaker 1: And so when I found it, I realized that not

1500
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:39,160
Speaker 1: many people played it, and I found a thing that

1501
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:42,240
Speaker 1: I could enjoy. And everyone is really good attendnis and

1502
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:44,120
Speaker 1: really good at basketball and soccer and whatever. I'm not,

1503
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 1: but I found something that I really enjoy. And my

1504
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 1: husband loves sports. We played together and I got my

1505
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 1: friends into it. We play every Sunday, and it just

1506
01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:55,200
Speaker 1: feels good to do the thing that I love and

1507
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 1: I hate going to the gym because I don't understand it.

1508
01:07:57,760 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 1: So if I can get fit in a way that

1509
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:03,080
Speaker 1: I just genuine LUs, then I am going to get fit.

1510
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 1: And then I've got my businesses and I choose to

1511
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:07,600
Speaker 1: do that, and I as much of the bad stuff

1512
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:09,919
Speaker 1: that I'm telling you about, like there is no place

1513
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:12,840
Speaker 1: I'd rather be than in business failure or not. Like

1514
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:15,479
Speaker 1: I would start again and I would do it again,

1515
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 1: and I would do it again and do it again.

1516
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:20,519
Speaker 1: And then also speaking on stage and creating content is

1517
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 1: like I just know that that is the thing I

1518
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:24,640
Speaker 1: want to do for the rest of my life. So

1519
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:26,720
Speaker 1: there's like not so many things, but the things I'm

1520
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:29,960
Speaker 1: choosing to do is like I just you really love it.

1521
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 2: Oh, I love that. That's the essence of CZA. It's

1522
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 2: finding what your unique combination of YA is. And for

1523
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:41,439
Speaker 2: some people that's one job and one personal life. Yeah,

1524
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 2: some people that's a blend of all of it. For

1525
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 2: some people that's four things, for some it's seven things.

1526
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 2: And I think above all it's like giving yourself permission

1527
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 2: to work out what it is and then do it.

1528
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 2: And if you do try something and it's not for you,

1529
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 2: it's okay to like change your mind.

1530
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:56,440
Speaker 1: Change yeah.

1531
01:08:56,640 --> 01:09:01,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh my gosh, oh, I wish I had so

1532
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 2: much more time with you. I have so many more questions.

1533
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:07,480
Speaker 2: But thank you so much, Anita for like the lovely conversation.

1534
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:10,439
Speaker 2: People don't usually ask me questions back, and I've had

1535
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:12,480
Speaker 2: a lot of reflection time in this episode.

1536
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:15,280
Speaker 1: So ye, I feel like you have to. It's been great.

1537
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:18,120
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it. Thank you for having me well.

1538
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 2: I mean, that was not just a very entertaining yapp

1539
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:23,920
Speaker 2: but basically a free one on one business coaching session

1540
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 2: for you all.

1541
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:25,679
Speaker 1: Anita is such.

1542
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:28,519
Speaker 2: A powerhouse and if you enjoyed or learned anything from this,

1543
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:31,799
Speaker 2: please do share the episode, tagging at to sell anything

1544
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 2: online to thank her for her time and wisdom. I'll

1545
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:38,479
Speaker 2: of course include links to all Anita's pages, books, and

1546
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 2: other links in the show notes and highly recommend that

1547
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 2: you go and have a look and give her a

1548
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:46,840
Speaker 2: follow Coming up, we have the very hotly awaited Azio

1549
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:49,759
Speaker 2: episode with a real life spy that I've been editing

1550
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:52,559
Speaker 2: away in the background and cannot wait to share with

1551
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,400
Speaker 2: you all. In the meantime, I hope you're having an

1552
01:09:55,439 --> 01:10:03,799
Speaker 2: amazing week and are seizing your yay. Potent father mment

1553
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:07,599
Speaker 2: s Patman from Nan humanly remaining