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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mama Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded.

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Speaker 1: On Makeup is my therapy in love.

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Speaker 2: I'm obsessed and I don't even feel guilty about it.

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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the formula.

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Speaker 3: I'm Kella McCarran, and today we're discussing the tweens and

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Speaker 3: the teens with their skincare routines. And I've got former

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Speaker 3: editor in chief of EL Australia, Justine Cullen, in with

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Speaker 3: me today because she's just a wealth of knowledge and

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Speaker 3: she's literally been front row to watch this shift from

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Speaker 3: magazines dictating to ten year olds telling you that they

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Speaker 3: need retinal when they absolutely don't.

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Speaker 1: So let's dive straight in.

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Speaker 3: You're such beautiful skill.

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Speaker 1: But how.

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Speaker 3: You recently wrote this really brilliant substack, which we will

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Speaker 3: link in the show notes, about how tweens are completely

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Speaker 3: skipping the basics and diving straight into retinal and peptides

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Speaker 3: like you know, ten step routines. What did you notice

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Speaker 3: happening and when? Because I'm sure you are the same

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Speaker 3: that when I was a teenager, I was lucky if

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Speaker 3: I remembered to cleanse properly, and I mean I had

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Speaker 3: awful hackney. So it's just like I was probably even

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Speaker 3: better than the average person. But I certainly was not

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Speaker 3: doing a ten step routine, and I certainly went through

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Speaker 3: a very awkward stage, and awkward's been kind.

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Speaker 2: Look, ten's not a great age, I think for most people.

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Speaker 2: Is it. When I used to shoot children, I'd always

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Speaker 2: be like, let's not do the ten year olds. You know,

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Speaker 2: your teeth are too big for your face, and you

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Speaker 2: know it's a whole situation. But I mean, I suppose

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Speaker 2: that the phenomenon of the Aphora tween that's been around

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Speaker 2: for a while now, you know, we're in our maybe

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Speaker 2: third year of that, which is which is really interesting

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Speaker 2: for me when I write about beauty. Now, I spend

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Speaker 2: a long time as a beauty editor, but I try

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Speaker 2: to really focus on not so much just aesthetics and product.

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Speaker 2: But how does this trend fit into, you know, a

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Speaker 2: wider context. What does it say about how we're feeling now?

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Speaker 2: What does it say about what's going on socially? And

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Speaker 2: so it's an interesting trend. And I personally think that

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Speaker 2: the reason this has had so much traction and the

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Speaker 2: reason it seems to be going nowhere is just because

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Speaker 2: the world is getting more and more chaotic. You know,

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Speaker 2: I think that all of us, but especially tweens, are

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Speaker 2: probably looking for a little bit of a bit of

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Speaker 2: coping mechanism, some sort of distraction from this wider world.

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Speaker 2: I think if you're ten years old and you're looking

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Speaker 2: at the news and your mum's upset because of this

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Speaker 2: thing that, as politician has said, or you know that

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Speaker 2: the distraction of oh look at this, this is pretty

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Speaker 2: And also keeping in mind that this is a generation

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Speaker 2: that were little kids growing up with us during the pandemic,

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Speaker 2: when we were all at home doing ten step skincare

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Speaker 2: routines because we had the time to and we were bored.

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Speaker 2: I think that, you know, it's imitation. That's how it's

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Speaker 2: always been. Kids have always imitated the next generation are

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Speaker 2: the difference now, I think, I think is that it's

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Speaker 2: become a feedback loop. Because of the power of TikTok.

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Speaker 2: They have this unbelievable purchasing power. So now instead of

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Speaker 2: us just aspiring to our sisters perfume or our mum's lipstick,

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Speaker 2: the brands are marketing to them and so it has

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Speaker 2: become this cycle of just it's just being perpetuated more

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Speaker 2: and more.

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Speaker 3: What do you think about that, Like, do you think

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Speaker 3: it's healthy long term that these kids are growing up

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Speaker 3: online and in front of the camera, Because I'm what

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Speaker 3: you just said about the news. When I was ten,

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Speaker 3: I didn't really know what was happening in the world,

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Speaker 3: like I was being distracted by playing. I'm sure I

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Speaker 3: was trying to grow up in my own regard, and

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Speaker 3: I definitely wash short skirts and mum's lipstick and was

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Speaker 3: interested in boys and all those sorts of things. But

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Speaker 3: I definitely wouldn't have been aware to the same extent

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Speaker 3: of the awful atrocities in the world.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I definitely think this generation are

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Speaker 2: and I think that they are constantly looking for, you know,

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Speaker 2: ways to kind of to soothe themselves. That's probably not

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Speaker 2: that's not unique to that age group either. I think

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Speaker 2: we're all looking for you know, little treat culture is

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Speaker 2: so enormous now, it's how we all cope. And this

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Speaker 2: idea that oh, well, you know, the world is burning

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Speaker 2: and I'm hearing all about, you know, a climate crisis

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Speaker 2: and I can't do much about it, but you know,

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Speaker 2: here's this pretty thing that I can look at somewhere

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Speaker 2: else and this can soothe me in the moment. I

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Speaker 2: think that's that's pretty universal right now. But you know,

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Speaker 2: it is a scary thing. And there's been lots of

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Speaker 2: pearl clutching over Sephora tweins, But I think we pearl

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Speaker 2: clutch in the wrong direction. It's misdirected. So you know,

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Speaker 2: a lot of it's been about, Yes, they're using actives,

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Speaker 2: and they're being influenced by these maybe slightly older influencers

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Speaker 2: who are looking for engagement. So they're talking about products

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Speaker 2: that do more exciting things than you know, SPF or

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Speaker 2: just a gentle cleanser and a moisturizer. So they're jumping

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Speaker 2: right ahead, and we're worried about that, and we should

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Speaker 2: be worried about that obviously. You know, we want our kids'

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Speaker 2: skin barriers to be held and all of those kinds

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Speaker 2: of things. But I think the pearl clutching needs to

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Speaker 2: be about, you know, how are we setting our children

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Speaker 2: up on a path of capitalism, on a purchasing path

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Speaker 2: from such a young age. We are essentially sort of

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Speaker 2: soft onboarding them into a world where they can just

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Speaker 2: be marketed to constantly and I think that that, you know,

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Speaker 2: that is a worry. It's like girlhood used to be.

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Speaker 2: As you just mentioned girlhood, it was a phase of life.

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Speaker 2: It was, you know, probably the most important phase in

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Speaker 2: setting up who you were going to be. And now

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Speaker 2: girlhood is just a marketing demographic and I think that

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Speaker 2: that's pretty scary, also quite insular if they're just at

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Speaker 2: home filming themselves doing a skincare routine instead of at

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Speaker 2: a slumber party or the things that we did at

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Speaker 2: the same age. But I think that's probably less less

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Speaker 2: about beauty itself and more just about social in general,

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Speaker 2: Like we have somehow permitted our young girls to be

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Speaker 2: opened up to these huge corporations who really just kind

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Speaker 2: of want to trap them in a place where they're

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Speaker 2: constantly being told that their only value and they can

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Speaker 2: see that value directly in likes and engagement is in

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Speaker 2: how they look or how they present themselves. The obsession

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Speaker 2: with beauty is one part of that problem, but social

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Speaker 2: media for young people is much bigger.

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Speaker 3: One part of this particular substack that I found so

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Speaker 3: interesting with this discussion was about the prices, and you

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Speaker 3: didn't outright sort of say it. It was more like alluded

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Speaker 3: to that if a brand sort of wants to promote

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Speaker 3: to adults, because the brands like Soldier Juniro are target

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Speaker 3: and Drunk Elephant are now targeted towards younger people, and

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Speaker 3: they're sitting maybe between sixty and one hundred dollars, that

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Speaker 3: brands that want to appeal to grown ups need to

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Speaker 3: price themselves even higher so that they're seen as an

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Speaker 3: adult brand.

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Speaker 2: Well, the tween market, the early early teen and tween

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Speaker 2: market kind of owns accessible beauty. Now. You know, if

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Speaker 2: you are something that is well priced and fun and

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Speaker 2: a bit playful and not too serious, you're probably marketing

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Speaker 2: at young people. And we've all had that experience of

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Speaker 2: walking into Mecca or any beauty store and having you know,

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Speaker 2: it's like being in a school playground sometimes you know,

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Speaker 2: it's a real bombardment of youth. But I think that

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Speaker 2: there have been some instances, you know, Drunk Elephant's a

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Speaker 2: great example where they have struggled over the past couple

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Speaker 2: of years because people saw them as a young person's brand,

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Speaker 2: as a kid's brand, and so the big part, you know,

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Speaker 2: the people in the middle moved away from them, so

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Speaker 2: you know, it sort of wasn't necessarily a sustainable business model.

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Speaker 2: But you know, I think if you put this into

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Speaker 2: a historical context, and you know, this is maybe going

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Speaker 2: off on a little bit of a tangent, but historically

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Speaker 2: there's always been the elites have always set the beauty standards. So,

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Speaker 2: you know, with the Industrial Revolution, it used to be

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Speaker 2: that if you had pale skin, it meant that you

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Speaker 2: didn't have to toil in the feet. And then the

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Speaker 2: Industrial Revolution gave rise to a new leisure class and

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Speaker 2: Ko Kochnell famously went on holiday and came back with

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Speaker 2: the tan, and suddenly that meant that you you know,

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Speaker 2: a tan didn't meant you toiled in the fields. It

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Speaker 2: meant that you were part of this new leisure class.

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Speaker 2: Same with you know, I mean even more recently, filler

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Speaker 2: and botox and all sorts of injectibles became much more

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Speaker 2: accessible and much more affordable. So all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: what are rich people obsessed with facelifts, much more invasive surgeries,

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Speaker 2: things that are just that bit out of reach. And

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Speaker 2: that's just how beauty standards have always moved. That's how

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Speaker 2: they've always evolved. And I think in this instance where

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Speaker 2: you've got brands that are just constantly speaking to the young,

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Speaker 2: and we are as a society completely obsessed with youth.

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Speaker 2: Right now. You've got tech bros who are trying to

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Speaker 2: live forever and Chris Jenna with the face that she

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Speaker 2: had thirty years ago or didn't even have thirty years ago. Maybe,

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Speaker 2: but you know, we're so obsessed with youth that at

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Speaker 2: some point I think there's a certain class of person

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Speaker 2: who is going to be saying I need something that

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Speaker 2: they can't have. I'll never have youth, but I can

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Speaker 2: afford a two hundred and fifty dollars lipstick and they

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Speaker 2: probably can't. Or I can afford a twenty five thousand

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Speaker 2: dollar perfume and they can't. And so you know, that

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Speaker 2: was sort of, I guess, always going to be how

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Speaker 2: it would work. They would always become this shift where

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Speaker 2: as the market goes younger, some people will find a

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Speaker 2: way to push it, to push it in a different direction.

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Speaker 3: It just seems crazy to me, though, because two hundred

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Speaker 3: and fifty dollars on a lipstick, no matter your income,

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Speaker 3: seems barbaric. And I understand the point of it and

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Speaker 3: the lipstick effect, but I also think it's it's scary

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Speaker 3: and sad and that does sound pearl clutching, but Mecca

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Speaker 3: isn't accessible to the majority of people with tweens or teens,

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Speaker 3: like they might themselves be okay with spending eighty dollars

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Speaker 3: on a cream, but for their ten year old god

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Speaker 3: O kamat like that would be the sort of mindset

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Speaker 3: of a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: I think. I had also written in the same edition

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Speaker 2: of the newsletter that Alta, which is a Sephora competitor

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Speaker 2: in the US, that they're now having tween birthday parties

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Speaker 2: in store, and the idea of us, I guess, embedding

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Speaker 2: our milestone moments, our emotional you know, pivotal childhood core

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Speaker 2: memories with capitalism, and it is, of course it's always been.

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Speaker 2: You've always had a Christmas birthday list, there's always been

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Speaker 2: capitalism with these things. But in such a direct way

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Speaker 2: to embed those things together, it does make me, I mean,

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Speaker 2: it makes me very nostalgic for a simpler time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because when there's a market for it, then you

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Speaker 3: also don't want your kid, I guess, to be the

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Speaker 3: one that's left out or bullied or if they really

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Speaker 3: want their birthday party there and all their friends are

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Speaker 3: of course, and that becomes the norm.

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Speaker 2: We I think we have to be careful too. It's

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Speaker 2: similar to gaming, I think, you know, and the expert

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Speaker 2: advice on gaming has always been like you can't fight it,

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Speaker 2: like don't don't fight gaming, don't put up you know,

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Speaker 2: resistance to it. What you need to do as a

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Speaker 2: parent is to get involved and to you know, be there,

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Speaker 2: Understand the rules, Understand how the game is moderated so

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Speaker 2: that you can navigate it more carefully with your child.

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Speaker 2: And to a degree, I think that you know, there's

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Speaker 2: an element of that that we can do with this

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Speaker 2: as well, where if you can be more involved, you

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Speaker 2: can suggest them to more affordable products, more appropriate products,

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Speaker 2: you can understand ingredients a little bit more. However, the

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Speaker 2: flip side of this is that any time that we

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Speaker 2: are associating self care purely with consumerism, purely with something

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Speaker 2: that you can buy, you know, we're giving them the

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Speaker 2: wrong coping mechanisms. That's one part of it. Sure, but

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Speaker 2: also go for a swim, go and you know, touch

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Speaker 2: grass or read a book.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: I interviewed some teenagers a couple of years ago for

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Speaker 2: a story, and I was asking them what they do

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Speaker 2: when they're anxious or stressed, and nearly every single one

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Speaker 2: of them said, go home, do my skin care. And

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Speaker 2: I found that so fascinating because that was just not

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Speaker 2: a sentence that a fourteen year old would have ever

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Speaker 2: said in the past. Maybe make up because it was

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Speaker 2: playful and fun, but to do your skincare, that's invisible labor,

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Speaker 2: you know, unless it's you know, the eye patches that

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Speaker 2: have a status, that have a label on them and

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Speaker 2: you can post about it. But that's a very interesting

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Speaker 2: way to self soothe. And sure that can be an element,

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Speaker 2: but there are a million other things I'd love for

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Speaker 2: them to be doing as well.

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Speaker 3: You were running magazines when they were the primary way

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Speaker 3: that people were getting information about such like good days,

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Speaker 3: things about beauty, and the beauty editors were the trusted voices.

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Speaker 3: Now all of these kids are bypassing dermatologists to follow

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Speaker 3: a twenty two year old in TikTok. What does that

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Speaker 3: do to consume a trust? And are brands just scrambling

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Speaker 3: to keep up with whatever's trending on someone's for you

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Speaker 3: page or you know, trying to target different algorithms.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I mean it's definitely, of course, it's influence.

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Speaker 2: This is over traditional media and definitely not experts now

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Speaker 2: because I think everyone thinks that they're an expert. And

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Speaker 2: that's probably you know, a chicken and egg situation as well,

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Speaker 2: because there's distrust of all experts and media, so it's

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Speaker 2: you know, which one came first. I find it's so

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Speaker 2: fascinating that. I mean, the influencers are so powerful now

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Speaker 2: in this space. And if you saw a few weeks

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Speaker 2: ago an influencer in the States who has a brand,

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Speaker 2: Sincerely Yours launched and had eighty thousand people show up

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Speaker 2: to a shopping center, oh, which is likestin Bieber category.

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Speaker 1: That's terrifying.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, eighty thousand people showed up for this fifteen year

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Speaker 2: old influencer and her skincare brand, and you know there

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Speaker 2: is power in that. Weirdly, I don't know how old

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Speaker 2: is your son three. I mean, my youngest is six,

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Speaker 2: and I find him coming home and saying things that

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Speaker 2: have you know, he obviously has no social media, he's

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Speaker 2: not on YouTube, but he will come home with you know,

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Speaker 2: he's saying six seven all the time now because he's

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Speaker 2: influenced by you know, there might be a kid who's

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Speaker 2: got an older brother or you know, cooler older kid

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Speaker 2: who's talking to them. So their influencers now they don't

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Speaker 2: even need to sound social. Oh, we can't get into

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Speaker 2: that conversation.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's it. I'll have a Google afterwards.

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Speaker 2: Seven is it's the most painful thing that any parent

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Speaker 2: who has a child between the ages of I guess

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Speaker 2: six and sixteen is experienced.

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Speaker 3: Okay, now, thank god that I don't know what it means.

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Speaker 2: You know, hopefully it will be over by the time

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Speaker 2: you get there, although it feels like it's been going

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Speaker 2: on forever, but they do come home. I think their

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Speaker 2: biggest influencers now are themselves. You know, it's somehow circulating,

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Speaker 2: you know, within each other, and that's really scary. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's lots of evidence that that tweens and teens are

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Speaker 2: refusing to use SPF now you know, they're all really entertainning.

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Speaker 2: They track the UV for the for the wrong reasons

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Speaker 2: and get out when it's really hot, and so I think,

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Speaker 2: what what is happening there is like it doesn't even

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Speaker 2: matter what the experts are say, because they're seeing themselves

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Speaker 2: as the experts. They think that where in some protection

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Speaker 2: is going to give them acne and as we know,

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Speaker 2: their skin is the most important thing to them. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's a dangerous it's right for misinformation. It's a dangerous time.

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Speaker 2: But I do think that the influence is coming not

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Speaker 2: necessarily from big influencers in the immediacy, it's coming from themselves.

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Speaker 3: Like it's hard to sort of talk about it without

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Speaker 3: sounding in your words like pearl clutching, because it does

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Speaker 3: just feel like I'm a boomergonge old. They should be

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Speaker 3: outside plying why are they doing their ten step skin

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Speaker 3: routine on TikTok?

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Speaker 1: But it does seem insidious.

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Speaker 2: But we can't pearl clutch when it's our fault. I

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Speaker 2: think we can be concerned, we need to do something

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Speaker 2: about it. But it came from us. They're imitating us,

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Speaker 2: And that's what I find more scary is that it's insidious.

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Speaker 2: We're all doing it to a degree.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that?

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Speaker 3: Because if it's from watching us and imitating us, But

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Speaker 3: what happened to that's a grown up thing to do

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Speaker 3: or that's grown up behavior because I of course wanted

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Speaker 3: to copy my mum growing up and love to play

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Speaker 3: with makeup and skincare, but I knew that some things

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Speaker 3: were just for grown ups and same thing like if

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Speaker 3: they were having a glass of wine with dinner. I

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Speaker 3: knew that I wasn't allowed to because that was a

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Speaker 3: grown up thing to do. So where did we fall

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Speaker 3: so short with something being okay for grown ups to do,

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Speaker 3: which is maybe going on social media and filming ourselves

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Speaker 3: and doing a ten step skin routine. Where did that

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Speaker 3: divide happen that suddenly it wasn't just saying to ten

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Speaker 3: year olds, no, no, no, no, when you're older, you can

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Speaker 3: do that to.

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Speaker 1: No, you can go for gold, because we do.

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Speaker 2: I think that's about, you know, our obsession with youth

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Speaker 2: as a society. I just think that the fact that

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Speaker 2: you know, we are looking to younger and younger people

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Speaker 2: all the time. The celebrities are getting younger, that you know,

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Speaker 2: the influencers are saying getting young. So as we're obsessing

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Speaker 2: over youth and then brands are obsessing over youth, they

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Speaker 2: have become this sort of center of the world. It

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Speaker 2: were was, you know, in previous eras it was all

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Speaker 2: about being in your twenties and you could aspire up.

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Speaker 2: That's not happening. It sort of happened a little bit

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Speaker 2: in magazines like if I think about my Dolly days

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Speaker 2: when I was a Dolly, you know, it was always

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Speaker 2: sort of written. When I was reading Dolly, it was

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Speaker 2: written for a seventeen year old, and then by the

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Speaker 2: time I worked there, we kind of pretended it was

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Speaker 2: for a seventeen year old, but we knew our readers

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Speaker 2: were thirteen years old. And then it became very openly

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Speaker 2: for a very younger reader, and then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: nobody wanted it anymore. And maybe maybe that becomes the

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Speaker 2: natural end of this sort of obsession. Whereas if we

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Speaker 2: market them too much, if it becomes something that is

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Speaker 2: meant to be for them, when women are or young

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Speaker 2: girls are always looking up and aspiring to be older,

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Speaker 2: you know, potentially it becomes something that they burn out

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Speaker 2: on and they decide to reject more completely at some point.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe that's being optimistic.

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Speaker 3: No, that's so true though, because I'm thinking I was,

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Speaker 3: you know, reading Dolly and pretending that I hadn't opened

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Speaker 3: the seal section if Mum sort of walked past, but

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Speaker 3: then you.

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Speaker 1: Get a hard one to put back together.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but or you'd like just lift it up a

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Speaker 3: little bit, try to like per so I was that

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Speaker 3: person I was reading Dolly, But then you get to

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Speaker 3: a certain age and it's still in high school where

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Speaker 3: you go, oh, I'm too grown up with that. That's

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Speaker 3: like the little kids. And then you moved on to

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Speaker 3: the Cleo and the Cosmo. So there was the Dolly

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Speaker 3: and Girlfriend and then Cleo on Cosmo, and then if

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Speaker 3: you're grown up, then you read the Vogue or the

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Speaker 3: Bizarre or then the l when it came out.

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Speaker 2: It is a similar sort of a market if you

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Speaker 2: think about it, because you know, my issue always when

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Speaker 2: we worked on those teen magazines is that, okay, so

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Speaker 2: if we're really young, and then Cleo and Cosmo were

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Speaker 2: talking about having sex and you know, all these really

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Speaker 2: kind of very grown up women type things to do.

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Speaker 2: Year old has nothing. And that's a little bit how

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Speaker 2: I feel about the market today. You know, if we're

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Speaker 2: talking about if everything is either yah and cutesy and

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Speaker 2: fun and in fun packaging that looks like it could

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Speaker 2: be chewing them but it's actually a retinal moisturizer, and

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Speaker 2: then you're skipping straight up to you know, these incredibly luxurious,

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Speaker 2: expensive products or deep plane facelifts. What is there for

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Speaker 2: us in the middle just kind of you know, have money,

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Speaker 2: and want to be marketed to in a sense, but

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Speaker 2: you know, sort of no one's paying attention.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're like the invisible in ye invisible generation. No

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Speaker 3: one's marketing towards us. And so many companies do say

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Speaker 3: that they are trying to acquire a lifetime shopper, which

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Speaker 3: I also think is very naive really or overly ambitious,

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Speaker 3: because no one is that loyal, I don't think anymore,

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Speaker 3: or they never really have been.

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Speaker 1: It sort of is.

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Speaker 3: Yes, they'll always buy things that they like, but they

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Speaker 3: can always be swayed by something shinier and new or something.

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Speaker 1: But it's excited.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that they're necessarily talking about a lifetime

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Speaker 2: shopper for their single brand so much as a lifetime

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Speaker 2: consumer in general is getting their validation from buying a

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Speaker 2: product or their sense of self from constantly just needing

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Speaker 2: to you know, feed that beast.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and like starting them so young that they're starting

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Speaker 3: that over consumption at fourteen instead of twenty four or

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Speaker 3: thirty four, when we sort of might have more traditionally

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Speaker 3: started to have that little bit more play money to

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Speaker 3: buy all of the little treats.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I think that that it's so incredibly young. Now,

403
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Speaker 2: you know, we're talking about nine and ten year olds

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Speaker 2: who you know, are listing ingredients and doing their you know,

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Speaker 2: get ready with me to go to school. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's hard to watch.

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Speaker 1: Justin. I can't even like.

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Speaker 3: Your brain is just such a wealth of knowledge because

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Speaker 3: you have at the forefront of the biggest shift in

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Speaker 3: media ever and you've been like you've seen it firsthand.

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Speaker 3: What do you just find so interesting about it? And

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Speaker 3: where do you see it going?

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Speaker 2: It is interesting with beauty. So I was a beauty editor.

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Speaker 2: I sort of started at a time when it wasn't

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Speaker 2: really anything. It was a lot of repeated stories and

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Speaker 2: you know, word salads. And then things got really interesting

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Speaker 2: and the products started to actually work and there were

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Speaker 2: real things to report on, and then there was this

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Speaker 2: sort of self love, diversification, coming of age, the democratization

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Speaker 2: of beauty with influencers, like you know, it's sort of

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Speaker 2: kind of written all those pathways. I think now the

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Speaker 2: interesting thing and it may just be me being older,

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Speaker 2: but you know, I am so interested in every trend

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Speaker 2: that comes up. You know, it's not just coming from

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Speaker 2: somebody deciding that pink is in and that's you know,

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Speaker 2: what's happening next. It's all indicative of something bigger, and

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Speaker 2: I'm so fascinated by where it all comes from. I

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Speaker 2: think you'd be foolish to ever try to predict what's

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Speaker 2: coming next in these worlds. But I definitely think that

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00:22:16,985 --> 00:22:19,745
Speaker 2: we are getting to a place where it's almost becoming

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00:22:20,065 --> 00:22:23,465
Speaker 2: a little subhuman. And look, this is not an optimistic

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00:22:23,505 --> 00:22:26,465
Speaker 2: take at all. I think the rise of AI, particularly

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00:22:26,545 --> 00:22:28,705
Speaker 2: AI slop, and all the videos that are coming out,

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00:22:28,705 --> 00:22:31,865
Speaker 2: and so, you know, I keep hearing from hairdressing salons

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00:22:31,865 --> 00:22:34,105
Speaker 2: that they're getting so frustrated because people are coming in

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00:22:34,145 --> 00:22:36,425
Speaker 2: and they're not even bringing in pictures. It used to

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00:22:36,425 --> 00:22:38,625
Speaker 2: be they'd be frustrated because you'd be showing pictures of

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00:22:38,625 --> 00:22:41,065
Speaker 2: hair that looks nothing like yours. Now they're showing pictures

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00:22:41,065 --> 00:22:43,785
Speaker 2: of hair that it's not even real, and people don't

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00:22:43,785 --> 00:22:46,225
Speaker 2: even realize that it's not real. And you know, I

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00:22:46,265 --> 00:22:51,065
Speaker 2: can see from my nieces who are so beautiful and young,

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00:22:51,145 --> 00:22:54,985
Speaker 2: but you know, their makeup is it's glassy, it's otherworldly.

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00:22:55,545 --> 00:22:58,385
Speaker 2: And so I do feel like there's this shift towards

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00:22:58,505 --> 00:23:02,345
Speaker 2: things that are just not human. And I don't really

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00:23:02,425 --> 00:23:05,505
Speaker 2: know where that goes, but I'm watching it with fascination

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00:23:05,825 --> 00:23:09,665
Speaker 2: because if this is where it takes us, you know,

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00:23:09,785 --> 00:23:11,905
Speaker 2: no where you go from there. And it's the same

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00:23:11,905 --> 00:23:13,345
Speaker 2: with the ten year olds. If you have nothing to

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00:23:13,385 --> 00:23:16,105
Speaker 2: aspire to after ten, because everything's already marketed at you,

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00:23:16,145 --> 00:23:18,665
Speaker 2: where do you go from there? I think maybe in

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00:23:18,705 --> 00:23:20,745
Speaker 2: that case it might be a rejection and you know,

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00:23:21,465 --> 00:23:24,065
Speaker 2: you sort of turn away from it to a degree,

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00:23:24,985 --> 00:23:30,785
Speaker 2: but you know, the world's changing so so rapidly. Makeup

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00:23:30,825 --> 00:23:34,625
Speaker 2: has always been about beauty in general. It's always been about,

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Speaker 2: I guess, putting on a show and reflecting the times

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00:23:39,345 --> 00:23:41,265
Speaker 2: that you live in and these other times that we

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00:23:41,305 --> 00:23:45,825
Speaker 2: live in. They're unsure, they're sort of a little bit chaotic,

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00:23:46,505 --> 00:23:48,065
Speaker 2: and we don't really know what's coming next.

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Speaker 3: We really appreciate your time diving into this with us, Justine,

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00:23:52,625 --> 00:23:57,505
Speaker 3: And honestly, if anyone wants to hear more from Justin's brain,

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00:23:57,545 --> 00:23:59,305
Speaker 3: and you definitely should, you'll have to sign up to

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00:23:59,345 --> 00:24:01,465
Speaker 3: her substack. Like I said, we'll pop a link in

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00:24:01,505 --> 00:24:04,905
Speaker 3: the show notes. Because it's not just the beauty industry.

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00:24:05,025 --> 00:24:08,625
Speaker 3: She's got very interesting perspectives on it. It's many different things.

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Speaker 3: In great recommendation, Yes, thank you very much. If you

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Speaker 3: want more of Justine's brilliant observations, follow her work on

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00:24:15,865 --> 00:24:19,145
Speaker 3: Substack and podcast The Late Night Snacking Trivia Game.

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00:24:19,185 --> 00:24:20,425
Speaker 1: We'll pop both.

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00:24:20,225 --> 00:24:22,905
Speaker 3: Of them in the show notes, and please don't forget

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00:24:22,905 --> 00:24:25,425
Speaker 3: to follow us on TikTok, at you Beauty Pod and

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00:24:25,585 --> 00:24:29,305
Speaker 3: Instagram at You Beauty Podcast, Subscribe to our newsletter and

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00:24:29,345 --> 00:24:30,705
Speaker 3: we will see you next week.

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Speaker 1: Bye,