WEBVTT - My Parents Held Me Captive At Sea For 10 Years 0:00:10.405 --> 0:00:13.125 You're listening to a MoMA Mea podcast. 0:00:13.925 --> 0:00:16.885 Mama Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters 0:00:16.885 --> 0:00:18.525 that this podcast is recorded on. 0:00:19.565 --> 0:00:23.325 I was a complete prisoner in this environment because I 0:00:23.405 --> 0:00:27.125 had no choice on where we would go, and often 0:00:27.165 --> 0:00:29.525 my father wouldn't even tell me where we were going 0:00:29.525 --> 0:00:30.445 to sail to next. 0:00:30.485 --> 0:00:32.805 So you're completely imprisoned in this. 0:00:32.725 --> 0:00:35.445 World and you can't even step off the boat and 0:00:35.485 --> 0:00:38.365 go to school or bring somebody up or anything like that. 0:00:47.285 --> 0:00:49.965 From MoMA may you're listening to no filter. I'm mea 0:00:50.005 --> 0:00:53.725 Friedman and when I was about seven, my parents decided 0:00:53.765 --> 0:00:56.805 we'd go on a road trip around Australia. We're away 0:00:57.125 --> 0:01:00.365 for about six weeks, but it felt like six years, 0:01:00.605 --> 0:01:04.445 and I hated every single second of it. Here's a 0:01:04.445 --> 0:01:07.685 hot tip. Most little kids don't have an appetite for adventure, 0:01:08.325 --> 0:01:10.845 not the kind of advent that takes them away from 0:01:10.885 --> 0:01:12.845 their friends and pets and grandparents. 0:01:13.445 --> 0:01:16.445 Kids like routine, They like being at home. 0:01:19.485 --> 0:01:22.645 When Susan Haywood was seven and her little brother was six, 0:01:22.725 --> 0:01:25.205 they were told by their parents that they'd be leaving 0:01:25.205 --> 0:01:29.125 the UK, leaving school, leaving their dog and their grandparents 0:01:29.445 --> 0:01:31.485 to go and see around the world for three years. 0:01:32.405 --> 0:01:35.245 Suzanne had a doubt about what that would be like, 0:01:35.685 --> 0:01:38.605 but like so many little girls, she trusted her dad. 0:01:38.965 --> 0:01:42.005 He was her hero. But as you're going to hear today, 0:01:42.245 --> 0:01:46.325 there's a fine line between adventure and survival, between an 0:01:46.325 --> 0:01:50.925 extended family holiday and well being held captive by your 0:01:50.965 --> 0:01:53.725 parents for ten years. 0:01:54.525 --> 0:01:55.885 Because what was supposed to be. 0:01:55.805 --> 0:01:59.885 A three year journey turned into a decade long odyssey 0:01:59.925 --> 0:02:04.325 where Suzanne was severely injured, hospitalized, put in a very 0:02:04.445 --> 0:02:08.965 unsafe environment with strangers as a teenage girl, and ultimately 0:02:09.565 --> 0:02:14.125 abandoned in a country where she knew nobody. This story 0:02:14.205 --> 0:02:17.125 is kind of like a Greek myth or an action adventure, 0:02:17.445 --> 0:02:21.405 complete with shipwrecks and desert islands. But for Suzanne, it 0:02:21.525 --> 0:02:24.605 was her life and it's her story. And with such 0:02:24.645 --> 0:02:27.285 a big story like this, I often think about where 0:02:27.285 --> 0:02:30.685 I want to begin these conversations, But with her story, 0:02:31.045 --> 0:02:34.285 I was curious to know where she actually begins. When 0:02:34.325 --> 0:02:37.685 she tells other people about this incredible thing that happened 0:02:37.685 --> 0:02:40.365 to her, what's the beginning for her? 0:02:41.845 --> 0:02:45.045 So the beginning for me is the moment where my 0:02:45.125 --> 0:02:48.605 father says, I want to sail around the world, and 0:02:48.685 --> 0:02:49.645 you're coming with me. 0:02:49.885 --> 0:02:50.605 It's going to be. 0:02:50.565 --> 0:02:55.245 Three years because my whole life changed at that moment, 0:02:55.445 --> 0:02:58.285 And so that is the beginning of the story. And 0:02:58.565 --> 0:03:01.365 up until that point, I'm quite a normal little girl 0:03:01.445 --> 0:03:06.125 living a normal life. I'd go to school, I've got friends, 0:03:06.285 --> 0:03:10.325 everything is normal, and then it changes because of that 0:03:10.445 --> 0:03:11.605 decision that he made. 0:03:12.485 --> 0:03:16.605 That day was in nineteen seventy six. You were only seven, 0:03:17.285 --> 0:03:21.005 Your brother John is six. You're eating your cereal and 0:03:21.045 --> 0:03:24.045 your dad Gordon announced his plan over. 0:03:23.925 --> 0:03:25.005 The breakfast table. 0:03:25.565 --> 0:03:28.525 Had he always had a fascination with Captain Cook? What 0:03:28.645 --> 0:03:31.805 exactly did he tell you all that his plan was? 0:03:32.685 --> 0:03:35.405 So he had had a fascination with Captain Cook. My 0:03:35.565 --> 0:03:39.205 maiden name is actually Cook, and he comes from a 0:03:39.205 --> 0:03:42.485 similar part of the UK to Captain Cook. And for 0:03:42.565 --> 0:03:45.245 many years I believe that we were related to him, 0:03:45.325 --> 0:03:47.485 but I now understand we're not. But it was enough 0:03:47.485 --> 0:03:51.285 of a connection for him to feel that fascination. And 0:03:51.365 --> 0:03:55.085 he'd always loved sailing. He hadn't sailed very far. They'd 0:03:55.085 --> 0:03:57.925 had various small boats, and they'd gone as far as 0:03:57.965 --> 0:04:00.965 crossing the Channel. He didn't really know how to navigate 0:04:01.005 --> 0:04:03.605 at that point, and anyway, as a six year old, 0:04:03.685 --> 0:04:06.565 you don't really question these things. Okay, So my dad's 0:04:06.605 --> 0:04:07.725 trying to sail around the world. 0:04:08.085 --> 0:04:09.005 You know, he's a hero. 0:04:09.445 --> 0:04:11.805 Hero worship my dad like a lot of little girls 0:04:11.845 --> 0:04:14.845 do with their father. Okay, you know, we're going on 0:04:14.885 --> 0:04:18.005 this adventure, and I was worried because I was leaving 0:04:18.045 --> 0:04:23.965 behind all my friends, my dog, Rusty water spaniel, my grandparents. 0:04:24.005 --> 0:04:26.485 I was very close, in particular to my Nana, my 0:04:26.525 --> 0:04:29.285 father's mother. But we were going to be back in 0:04:29.365 --> 0:04:31.565 three years and it was going to be a great adventure. 0:04:32.325 --> 0:04:34.685 You didn't question, of course, you kind of don't even 0:04:34.725 --> 0:04:37.645 get the opportunity to question things. Well, maybe kids do now, 0:04:37.725 --> 0:04:39.725 but back in the seventies, we didn't get the chance 0:04:39.805 --> 0:04:43.445 to question things when our parents told us their plans. 0:04:44.245 --> 0:04:47.205 But how did your mother, Mary, and your brother John, 0:04:47.605 --> 0:04:49.605 who was about the same agency, how did they react 0:04:49.605 --> 0:04:51.205 to the proposition, particularly your mom. 0:04:51.765 --> 0:04:54.845 So my mom was madly in love with my father 0:04:55.165 --> 0:04:57.925 and really would go along with anything that he wanted 0:04:58.005 --> 0:05:01.605 to do. They had one of these dynamics where, you know, 0:05:01.685 --> 0:05:04.605 my father made all the big decisions and my mother 0:05:04.645 --> 0:05:07.285 made all the little decisions, the day to day decisions, 0:05:07.685 --> 0:05:10.565 but the thing was my mom hated, and I knew 0:05:10.565 --> 0:05:13.125 that even as a little girl. My father would often 0:05:13.165 --> 0:05:15.645 go saiving. My mother would not go with him. But 0:05:15.725 --> 0:05:18.005 I think for my mother, the idea that he would 0:05:18.085 --> 0:05:22.485 go sailing without her was inconceivable. And then if she 0:05:22.725 --> 0:05:26.045 was going, of course us kids would go. My brother 0:05:26.125 --> 0:05:29.485 I don't really remember expressing much review. He's a year 0:05:29.525 --> 0:05:32.045 younger than me, so he was five at this point, 0:05:32.525 --> 0:05:36.005 so he didn't really have much review, certainly not at 0:05:36.005 --> 0:05:38.645 that point. But my mother was absolutely going to go. 0:05:38.725 --> 0:05:39.685 I don't remember her. 0:05:39.565 --> 0:05:41.645 Being enthusiastic about it. 0:05:42.085 --> 0:05:45.205 This was my father's dream, not hers, but she was 0:05:45.485 --> 0:05:46.645 absolutely part of it. 0:05:47.285 --> 0:05:50.205 Tell me about your mom. Your relationship with her wasn't easy, 0:05:50.805 --> 0:05:52.765 you write in your book. My father was a hero 0:05:52.885 --> 0:05:55.725 to me, and it seemed to everyone else. My mother 0:05:55.805 --> 0:06:01.125 was a glamorous, if somewhat unwilling and unmaternal accomplice speak 0:06:01.205 --> 0:06:02.685 to me about unmaternal. 0:06:03.285 --> 0:06:05.685 As a small child, I didn't really question how my 0:06:05.765 --> 0:06:06.285 mother was. 0:06:06.405 --> 0:06:06.965 She just was. 0:06:07.005 --> 0:06:09.285 I mean, you just accept your mother as the person, 0:06:09.365 --> 0:06:12.765 and she is. But as I got older, it became 0:06:12.845 --> 0:06:17.085 increasingly apparent not only that she was not maternal. I mean, 0:06:17.125 --> 0:06:19.325 at one point in the book, she leaves me overnight 0:06:19.365 --> 0:06:25.085 at an orphanage, but also she has very clear favorites. 0:06:25.125 --> 0:06:28.125 So my brother becomes very much like a golden child 0:06:28.285 --> 0:06:32.085 on the boat, and I become the Cinderella type character 0:06:32.725 --> 0:06:35.565 and talking to other children, particularly children who were taken 0:06:35.685 --> 0:06:40.765 out of the norm into very physically adventurous circumstances. That 0:06:41.365 --> 0:06:43.925 is a pattern which I'm hearing from other people as well, 0:06:43.925 --> 0:06:46.125 because of course girls are less suited for that sort 0:06:46.125 --> 0:06:49.205 of environment. And then you get into a dynamic where 0:06:49.845 --> 0:06:53.125 because the boy is enjoying it more, they're the good child. 0:06:53.245 --> 0:06:55.845 Because the girl is not enjoying it as much, and 0:06:55.925 --> 0:07:00.565 often girls are craving friendships and normality, they're the bad child. 0:07:00.645 --> 0:07:03.445 And that dynamic was one that my mother played into. 0:07:03.525 --> 0:07:07.525 My mother was always somebody who had favorites people, She 0:07:07.965 --> 0:07:11.685 liked people who flattered her. I now understand, at least 0:07:11.685 --> 0:07:14.205 I've been told, she is quite a narcissistic person. So 0:07:14.445 --> 0:07:17.325 if you flattered her and she liked what you were doing, 0:07:17.805 --> 0:07:20.565 you were wonderful. If you didn't, she disliked you. So 0:07:20.645 --> 0:07:24.445 this relationship I had with her went seriously downhill when 0:07:24.485 --> 0:07:28.125 I became a teenager, and looking back, I now understand 0:07:28.165 --> 0:07:31.965 I was probably in her eyes, competing for attention. You 0:07:32.045 --> 0:07:36.725 have become a pretty teenager. I was academic, and I 0:07:36.725 --> 0:07:39.685 think she just found me really hard to deal with 0:07:40.005 --> 0:07:42.205 on the boat. But her response to that was to 0:07:42.245 --> 0:07:45.925 be really quite unpleasant. And of course you're trapped in 0:07:45.965 --> 0:07:48.845 a tiny boat and you can't go anywhere. As a 0:07:48.885 --> 0:07:51.485 teenage girl, I couldn't go and be a friend. I 0:07:51.485 --> 0:07:54.565 couldn't get off the boat. There was nothing I could. 0:07:54.725 --> 0:07:57.485 You literally couldn't run away. You couldn't even slam a door. 0:07:57.565 --> 0:08:01.365 And you go for a walk to the park. Can 0:08:01.405 --> 0:08:04.165 you tell me your dad went and found this boat 0:08:04.285 --> 0:08:07.565 with the Wavewalker, which is also the name of your 0:08:07.605 --> 0:08:08.445 incredible book. 0:08:09.645 --> 0:08:12.005 What did the boat look like like? What was it like? 0:08:12.125 --> 0:08:14.205 The actual physicality of it on board? 0:08:15.085 --> 0:08:18.685 So wave Walker was a very beautiful boat from the outside, 0:08:18.965 --> 0:08:22.605 a very old fashioned looking boat with a raise that's 0:08:22.645 --> 0:08:25.005 called a kind of poop neck up at the back. 0:08:25.125 --> 0:08:28.165 She was a wooden boat, a schooner, which means the 0:08:28.205 --> 0:08:30.165 mast at the front is smaller than the mass of 0:08:30.205 --> 0:08:34.485 the back gaffrig, which means that the sail between the 0:08:34.525 --> 0:08:38.125 two masts square. So she looked really old fashioned and 0:08:38.245 --> 0:08:41.045 rather beautiful with a long bow sprit at the bow 0:08:41.445 --> 0:08:45.205 or the front, so she was very graceful, but the 0:08:45.245 --> 0:08:47.205 reality of what it was like to live on her 0:08:47.685 --> 0:08:50.965 was quite different. She was a very narrow boat, so 0:08:51.165 --> 0:08:54.325 down below you didn't have a lot of space, certainly 0:08:54.365 --> 0:08:57.605 not a space to live on for many years, and 0:08:57.685 --> 0:09:01.365 particularly because over time my father ran completely out of money. 0:09:01.485 --> 0:09:04.765 We were never very wealthy, but we became very poor 0:09:05.005 --> 0:09:07.765 over time, which is another thing that happens with long 0:09:07.845 --> 0:09:10.765 term sailors, because of course you often don't have a 0:09:10.805 --> 0:09:13.885 real source of income and it's very expensive to try 0:09:13.885 --> 0:09:16.325 and just keep the boat going, so there was no 0:09:16.485 --> 0:09:19.285 money for, you know, anything frivolous at all. I don't 0:09:19.285 --> 0:09:22.405 remember having a new item of clothing as a child. 0:09:22.885 --> 0:09:26.565 So he started taking paying crew on the boat six 0:09:26.685 --> 0:09:32.045 seven a crew usually men on board and downstairs down below, 0:09:32.245 --> 0:09:34.885 the space was very limited, so I was often sharing 0:09:35.045 --> 0:09:38.085 a cabin with these kind of male crews. There was 0:09:38.125 --> 0:09:43.125 only one working bathroom or head, very narrow kind of galley, 0:09:43.165 --> 0:09:45.965 one table that sat kind of five people, but not 0:09:46.205 --> 0:09:49.325 enough space for everybody to sit down, so quite constrained. 0:09:49.325 --> 0:09:52.645 And then imagine being in that environment as a teenage girl. 0:09:53.045 --> 0:09:58.005 Where you want, You want a degree of kind of privacy, 0:09:56.325 --> 0:09:59.005 you know, and of. 0:09:58.965 --> 0:10:00.365 Course you can't get off the boat. 0:10:00.525 --> 0:10:04.245 So and this is this wonderful, really interesting thing for 0:10:04.325 --> 0:10:08.965 me about the contrast between the parents' dream. My father 0:10:09.005 --> 0:10:11.045 had the dream of standing around the world, and for 0:10:11.165 --> 0:10:15.005 heim it was freedom and independence. And you know, if 0:10:15.045 --> 0:10:17.885 they fell out with somebody, which they often did, they 0:10:17.925 --> 0:10:20.125 would pull up the anchor and sail to somewhere else. 0:10:20.405 --> 0:10:23.405 But for me, I was a complete prisoner in this 0:10:23.565 --> 0:10:27.565 environment because I had no choice on where we would go, 0:10:28.165 --> 0:10:30.725 and often my father wouldn't even tell me where we 0:10:30.725 --> 0:10:33.645 were going to sail to next. So you're completely imprisoned 0:10:33.845 --> 0:10:36.645 in this world, and you can't even step off the 0:10:36.645 --> 0:10:39.125 boat and go to school or bring somebody up or 0:10:39.125 --> 0:10:39.925 anything like that. 0:10:42.045 --> 0:10:44.125 After this short break, what was supposed to be a 0:10:44.165 --> 0:10:47.965 three year voyage beginning when Susann was seven, drags out 0:10:47.965 --> 0:10:51.725 for years and years, and she becomes a young woman 0:10:51.765 --> 0:10:54.005 on the yacht, which brings a whole new set of 0:10:54.085 --> 0:10:55.765 challenges and dangers. 0:10:56.285 --> 0:10:56.925 Stay with us. 0:10:59.285 --> 0:11:03.045 Tell me about school, because I imagine when he sold it 0:11:03.085 --> 0:11:05.005 to you, the prospect of not going. 0:11:04.765 --> 0:11:06.885 To school at first for a kid. 0:11:07.325 --> 0:11:10.725 Is kind of great, But what did you do about 0:11:10.845 --> 0:11:12.205 lessons and about school? 0:11:12.205 --> 0:11:13.765 Did you do it? By correspondence? 0:11:14.605 --> 0:11:17.365 So the initial premise was that my mother was going 0:11:17.405 --> 0:11:19.965 to teach us. And my mother was a trained primary 0:11:20.005 --> 0:11:23.485 school teacher, so she had various worksheets that she was 0:11:23.565 --> 0:11:24.725 going to use. 0:11:25.285 --> 0:11:26.325 And I know you say. 0:11:26.125 --> 0:11:28.125 That the kind of promise for most kids would be 0:11:28.205 --> 0:11:30.805 quite exciting not going school, but actually I was taken 0:11:30.805 --> 0:11:33.845 out of school when I was seven, and I was 0:11:33.925 --> 0:11:37.845 quite an academic child, and I enjoyed school anyway. My 0:11:37.925 --> 0:11:41.125 mother did do a few worksheets, particularly in the first 0:11:41.565 --> 0:11:44.365 year or so, but it was very haphazard because she 0:11:44.405 --> 0:11:46.965 wouldn't do any at sea because she got seasick. She 0:11:47.005 --> 0:11:49.365 didn't really like doing them in port because then she'd 0:11:49.365 --> 0:11:52.645 want to go ashore. So every so often it would happen, 0:11:52.645 --> 0:11:55.805 but very very sporadic, and then within the first couple 0:11:55.845 --> 0:11:59.325 of years it stopped altogether. And by the time we 0:11:59.485 --> 0:12:01.965 got to Hawaii, by which point we've been at sea 0:12:01.965 --> 0:12:06.285 for four years, she's long given up any sort of education. 0:12:06.925 --> 0:12:10.205 And I'm incredibly bored, and I just to learn, So 0:12:10.285 --> 0:12:13.405 I'm trying to read every book I can find. I'm 0:12:13.405 --> 0:12:15.605 trying to talk to everybody I can kind of talk to. 0:12:15.765 --> 0:12:18.605 But I'm just desperate to learn, both for the sake 0:12:18.645 --> 0:12:23.845 of learning but also for friendships. I'm really really missing friends. 0:12:24.205 --> 0:12:26.525 And people say to me, but you know what was 0:12:26.565 --> 0:12:28.885 the problem? You know, you had the University of Life, 0:12:29.285 --> 0:12:31.765 to which I say, well, the University of Life is great, 0:12:31.845 --> 0:12:35.325 but I wanted to be a scientist. And how do 0:12:35.325 --> 0:12:40.325 you learn maths and physics and chemistry when you're sitting 0:12:40.365 --> 0:12:42.285 on a boat sailing around the world. 0:12:42.885 --> 0:12:45.525 You just said four years. I mean originally your dad 0:12:45.565 --> 0:12:48.765 had said three years. What was the intention to like 0:12:49.285 --> 0:12:51.885 sail for what a few weeks at a time and 0:12:51.925 --> 0:12:53.965 then go into port and. 0:12:53.845 --> 0:12:56.325 Like live in different cities. 0:12:56.125 --> 0:12:59.165 Or to just be spending the whole time on the ocean, 0:12:59.285 --> 0:13:01.605 Like what was the plan? And also then how did 0:13:01.605 --> 0:13:02.245 it turn out? 0:13:02.885 --> 0:13:05.565 Well, the plan was a slightly crazy plan. So he 0:13:05.725 --> 0:13:09.565 had this idea of recreating Captain Cook's third voyde around 0:13:09.605 --> 0:13:12.925 the world. And the reason why he did that, I 0:13:13.005 --> 0:13:15.725 now believe, is because that was a way of raising 0:13:15.765 --> 0:13:19.365 money to do the voyage, because it felt like, you know, 0:13:19.445 --> 0:13:21.565 something that people would donate money too. 0:13:22.125 --> 0:13:24.165 What did he do for a job? Your dad before 0:13:24.205 --> 0:13:24.565 all of. 0:13:24.525 --> 0:13:28.085 This so he first of all trained as a teacher himself, 0:13:28.125 --> 0:13:30.285 though he hated teaching and only did it for a 0:13:30.325 --> 0:13:34.165 few weeks, and then he ran various things. I remember 0:13:34.205 --> 0:13:36.365 he kind of ran a bowling alley at one point, 0:13:36.845 --> 0:13:39.765 and at the point at which we sold everything to 0:13:39.805 --> 0:13:43.485 buy the boat, he was running Warwick Castle in the UK, 0:13:43.605 --> 0:13:47.445 which is an old castle. So he was always an entrepreneur, 0:13:48.205 --> 0:13:51.525 not a very wealthy entrepreneur, but he was always an entrepreneur. 0:13:51.525 --> 0:13:54.285 He always had ideas, so that's what he was doing. 0:13:54.285 --> 0:13:56.205 And then he had this big idea that he was 0:13:56.245 --> 0:13:58.965 going to sell around the world and then he made 0:13:59.005 --> 0:14:02.325 it the Byzentinary Voyage. So he was able to raise 0:14:02.365 --> 0:14:04.885 some sponsorship for that, which was good because we didn't 0:14:04.885 --> 0:14:08.125 have a huge amount of money. So that was the idea. 0:14:08.165 --> 0:14:10.845 Now the problem we're standing around the world following Captain 0:14:10.885 --> 0:14:14.085 Cook's third voyage is Captain Cook took a very dangerous 0:14:14.125 --> 0:14:17.205 route on his third voyage. So whereas most people who 0:14:17.285 --> 0:14:20.085 sail around the world, they do so standing east to 0:14:20.165 --> 0:14:23.245 west around the equator, So you go from the UK, 0:14:23.365 --> 0:14:26.685 if you're starting from the UK, across the North Atlantic, 0:14:26.805 --> 0:14:30.525 through the Panama Canal down through the Pacific and so on. 0:14:31.245 --> 0:14:32.445 We weren't going that way. 0:14:32.645 --> 0:14:35.605 We were going the other way, which basically you don't 0:14:35.805 --> 0:14:39.765 do unless you're a very extreme sailor. We went down 0:14:39.805 --> 0:14:42.885 to South America and we sailed from west to east. 0:14:43.325 --> 0:14:46.125 That meant that we went across the Southern Atlantic Ocean, 0:14:46.165 --> 0:14:49.325 which is a very dangerous ocean, the wrong way. 0:14:49.725 --> 0:14:50.005 I e. 0:14:50.205 --> 0:14:53.965 Into the winds. And then we went even worse across 0:14:54.005 --> 0:14:57.125 the Southern Indian Ocean. And these trips, by the way, 0:14:57.445 --> 0:15:02.245 you're at sea four ten twelve weeks, weeks, weeks, yes, 0:15:03.045 --> 0:15:06.285 and there's a little kid. You're trapped down below because 0:15:06.285 --> 0:15:08.365 you can't come up on deck because it's too dangerous. 0:15:09.365 --> 0:15:11.965 And in the Southern Indian Ocean we hit a terrible, 0:15:12.125 --> 0:15:15.725 terrible storm. The ways became bigger and bigger, and eventually, 0:15:16.205 --> 0:15:18.165 and I talk about it in the book, were very 0:15:18.205 --> 0:15:21.885 badly shipwrecked. The boat or the sinks, and I am 0:15:21.965 --> 0:15:24.925 quite badly hurt because I'm flung against the ceiling of 0:15:24.965 --> 0:15:28.365 the cabin and against the wall, and I fracture my 0:15:28.365 --> 0:15:30.765 skull and break my nose. And we end up on 0:15:30.845 --> 0:15:33.765 a tiny little atoll island in the middle of the 0:15:33.765 --> 0:15:37.405 Indian Ocean called ourl Amsterdam where I have seven head 0:15:37.405 --> 0:15:40.205 operations without an esthetic, sous. 0:15:40.285 --> 0:15:44.205 That is a lot. And you're how old at this age? 0:15:44.445 --> 0:15:46.525 So I'm still seven, you're still seventh. 0:15:46.885 --> 0:15:50.085 This was in year one of the great adventure. 0:15:50.405 --> 0:15:53.445 Yeah, one of the great adventure. But that's why the 0:15:53.565 --> 0:15:56.325 end of the voyage what is a major you know? 0:15:56.405 --> 0:15:58.325 The turning point of the voyage was supposed to be 0:15:58.405 --> 0:16:02.765 Hawaiian because Hawaiian was where Captain Cook was killed on 0:16:02.845 --> 0:16:05.165 his third voyage, at which point we were supposed to 0:16:05.205 --> 0:16:08.885 then turn around and come back through the Panama Canal 0:16:09.125 --> 0:16:11.165 to the UK, and that was the end of the voat. 0:16:11.365 --> 0:16:13.805 But by the time we got to Hawaii, mother, than 0:16:13.845 --> 0:16:17.045 being three years in, we were four years in because 0:16:17.045 --> 0:16:18.805 of the shipwreck. It took the best part of a 0:16:18.925 --> 0:16:22.485 year to repair the boat in Fremantle. We were in Fremantle. 0:16:22.525 --> 0:16:25.405 I went briefly to school in Fremantle, which I remember 0:16:25.445 --> 0:16:26.045 really loving. 0:16:26.245 --> 0:16:27.245 What school did you go to? 0:16:27.925 --> 0:16:29.845 I can't remember the school. It was a little local 0:16:29.885 --> 0:16:33.645 school near the boatyard in Fremantle, and I remember there 0:16:33.645 --> 0:16:37.285 were these very nice twin boys who used to compete 0:16:37.325 --> 0:16:39.405 over who would carry my school bag back to the 0:16:39.405 --> 0:16:40.485 boatyard every day. 0:16:40.805 --> 0:16:41.565 That was very sweet. 0:16:41.645 --> 0:16:43.485 You must have loved playing with other kids. 0:16:44.805 --> 0:16:48.285 Yeah, it was wonderful because we were going to school. 0:16:48.605 --> 0:16:51.845 We were at one level having a somewhat normal life. 0:16:52.205 --> 0:16:54.565 At another level, we weren't because the boat was very 0:16:54.565 --> 0:16:58.085 badly damaged and in that shipwreck we lost all our toys. 0:16:58.125 --> 0:17:01.845 So we had no toys. We had virtually no money 0:17:02.165 --> 0:17:05.885 because everything was being spent that we had on repairing 0:17:05.925 --> 0:17:09.245 this boat. We were living on this boat which was 0:17:09.605 --> 0:17:14.285 half wrecked, in this boatyard. But when I left the 0:17:14.325 --> 0:17:17.005 boatyard and I put my little kind of saturl on 0:17:17.085 --> 0:17:19.365 and went to school, I could pretend to be normal 0:17:19.605 --> 0:17:22.205 and it was great. I remember kind of practicing a 0:17:22.285 --> 0:17:25.565 musical instrument, the tambourine, I seem to remember for the 0:17:25.605 --> 0:17:29.165 school band. I remember, for a little while, our life 0:17:29.245 --> 0:17:32.165 is normal, And then my father said, now we're saving again, 0:17:32.645 --> 0:17:33.525 and we set off. 0:17:33.685 --> 0:17:36.925 You must have been devastated. What was a typical day 0:17:36.965 --> 0:17:40.005 in the life for you, like as a child on the. 0:17:39.965 --> 0:17:44.085 Boat, Well, days were very governed by the weather. So 0:17:44.165 --> 0:17:47.285 when we set sail from Fremantle, we were sailing across 0:17:47.325 --> 0:17:50.805 the Great Australian Bite to Melbourne. And actually that's a 0:17:50.845 --> 0:17:54.205 pretty rough piece of sea as well, so you will 0:17:54.405 --> 0:17:57.365 have some days where you're completely becalmed with no wind, 0:17:57.965 --> 0:18:00.405 in which case I would get up in the morning, 0:18:01.005 --> 0:18:03.765 you know, find something for breakfast. We often didn't have 0:18:04.045 --> 0:18:08.485 very organized meals because everyone was doing watches. All the 0:18:08.525 --> 0:18:11.285 adults were doing watches. So it's not that you would 0:18:11.325 --> 0:18:13.285 get up in the morning and somebody would be there, 0:18:13.365 --> 0:18:16.325 because you'd have one or two adults on watch and 0:18:16.365 --> 0:18:17.125 everybody else. 0:18:16.965 --> 0:18:19.965 Would be asleep. But you would find yourself some breakfast. 0:18:20.045 --> 0:18:22.045 I'd go up if it was calm enough, I could 0:18:22.085 --> 0:18:25.525 go up and sit in the cockpit with whoever was 0:18:25.605 --> 0:18:28.525 on watch, and I could talk to them, and then 0:18:28.605 --> 0:18:30.925 I would go down and spend the rest of the 0:18:31.005 --> 0:18:32.485 day trying to entertain myself. 0:18:32.645 --> 0:18:36.485 You know. I would have a few books, I would draw, I. 0:18:36.485 --> 0:18:39.205 Would try to find things to do. But we didn't 0:18:39.205 --> 0:18:43.805 have any organized schooling, and we had very limited toys 0:18:43.845 --> 0:18:46.125 on board. The one thing I will say is is 0:18:46.205 --> 0:18:50.085 kids aren't endlessly inventive. So my younger brother and I 0:18:50.125 --> 0:18:52.885 would invent a lot of games, and I would also 0:18:52.925 --> 0:18:55.325 in ment a lot of games. I would play by myself. 0:18:55.365 --> 0:18:58.245 I mean, I remember using we had a chess set 0:18:58.285 --> 0:18:59.725 on board. It was one of the few things that 0:18:59.765 --> 0:19:03.485 we had, and I remember turning that into an entire kingdom, 0:19:03.725 --> 0:19:07.405 you know. But looking back, and particularly now as a parent, 0:19:07.485 --> 0:19:09.805 and I'm a parent of three children myself, it's a 0:19:09.965 --> 0:19:13.565 very deprived world forcing your to I mean, it's almost 0:19:13.605 --> 0:19:16.045 like if my parents have kind of locked me in 0:19:16.125 --> 0:19:19.765 a flat for a decade, we would all say that's 0:19:19.845 --> 0:19:22.485 kind of terrible. But actually being stuck at sea as 0:19:22.485 --> 0:19:26.485 a child, particularly a small child, you're down below in 0:19:26.525 --> 0:19:30.005 a very limited space with very few things to do. 0:19:30.085 --> 0:19:33.005 Like in a cell, because like kids need to run 0:19:33.165 --> 0:19:36.885 and jump and climb, how did you even You couldn't 0:19:36.885 --> 0:19:38.285 even move much. 0:19:38.805 --> 0:19:40.805 So if it was calm, you could go on deck, 0:19:41.005 --> 0:19:45.125 but there's limited deck space. You certainly can't run around 0:19:45.205 --> 0:19:47.885 very much. My brother and I had a game where 0:19:47.885 --> 0:19:49.445 we would try to kind of get from one end 0:19:49.445 --> 0:19:51.805 of the boat to the other without touching the floor. 0:19:52.005 --> 0:19:52.485 I remember. 0:19:52.845 --> 0:19:56.445 But you can't swim, and unless you're import you can't 0:19:56.605 --> 0:19:58.925 go short, so you can't play any sort of ball 0:19:59.005 --> 0:20:03.365 games or anything like that. So, yes, very limited for 0:20:03.565 --> 0:20:04.845 prolonged periods of time. 0:20:05.005 --> 0:20:07.165 Where was your mum? What would she do on the 0:20:07.165 --> 0:20:08.165 biat so my. 0:20:08.205 --> 0:20:12.885 Mum would do watches with everybody else. She got very 0:20:12.965 --> 0:20:15.845 badly seasick. So basically for the first three days, every 0:20:15.885 --> 0:20:18.765 time we left port, she would retreat to her bunk 0:20:19.005 --> 0:20:21.285 in the aft cabin at the back of the boat, 0:20:21.325 --> 0:20:23.285 and she was not to be disturbed. So for the 0:20:23.285 --> 0:20:25.445 first three days you always had to make do once 0:20:25.485 --> 0:20:28.285 you left port, and then she would appear and she 0:20:28.445 --> 0:20:33.165 would cook food. I mean, food on board was quite basic, 0:20:33.485 --> 0:20:35.245 you know, because you had to rely a lot on 0:20:35.325 --> 0:20:37.165 kind of canned and powdered food. 0:20:37.565 --> 0:20:39.605 What would you eat? What were meals like. 0:20:40.085 --> 0:20:42.885 Well, quite a lot of corned beef, quite a lot 0:20:42.925 --> 0:20:47.285 of spam. I don't really recommend. When my father had 0:20:47.325 --> 0:20:50.045