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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast. Mama Maya acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast

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Speaker 1: is recorded.

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Speaker 2: On My kid goes for a sleepover and I can't sleep.

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Speaker 2: Or you know, you're getting married and you think about

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Speaker 2: you lose your virginity, you kiss someone for the first

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Speaker 2: time anything, You meet someone and you see something and

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Speaker 2: you're suspicious and they might not deserve your suspicion and

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Speaker 2: you have to think like that.

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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kate lane Brook. Welcome to No Filter on

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Speaker 1: Paper or on Canvas. A renowned and commercially successful portrait

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Speaker 1: artist who shot to art world fame with his two

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Speaker 1: thousand and eight portrait of friend and actor Heath Ledger,

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Speaker 1: with which he won the People's Choice Award at the

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Speaker 1: fabled Archibald Prize. He hasn't stopped winning prizes since. His

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Speaker 1: subjects have included notable figures such as Brandon Walters, Matt

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Speaker 1: Moran and Baz Lureman, and perhaps his greatest prize, his

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Speaker 1: better half, National Treasure and beloved actress Asha Kedy. Together,

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Speaker 1: the couple raised Luca Vincent's first child along with their

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Speaker 1: son Valentino, but behind Vincent's seemingly charmed life was a

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Speaker 1: childhood of neglect, abuse, crime and poverty. And friends, we

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Speaker 1: do talk about these things in detail, so listen mindfully.

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Speaker 1: After a lifetime of bearying the traumatic realities of his past,

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Speaker 1: Vincent wrote his memoir Unveiled. In this emotionally raw conversation,

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Speaker 1: I had the privilege of speaking with Vincent about the

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Speaker 1: shame and trauma he's lived with since boyhood. He shares

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Speaker 1: what it was like to endure an abusive upbringing, what

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Speaker 1: it was like to go through school completely illiterate, and

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Speaker 1: his teenage encounters with violence and crime. He also tells

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Speaker 1: of how boxing became the unexpected pathway to art, which

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Speaker 1: ultimately saved him. We talk about his marriage to Asher,

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Speaker 1: his role as a father, and how the ghosts of

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Speaker 1: his past have maintained a choke hold on him despite

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Speaker 1: the fact that he managed to draw his way out

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Speaker 1: of that life. I also got to surprise Vincent with

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Speaker 1: a truly beautiful message from his wife Asher that has

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Speaker 1: us both reaching for the tissues. Vincent is living proof

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Speaker 1: that you can never truly know someone's journey from how

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Speaker 1: it may look from the outside. Here is Vincent Vantuzzo.

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Speaker 1: Vincent Vantuzzo, Fantatzo and Tusa. Welcome to No Filter. So

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Speaker 1: you have written this book called Unveiled, and it's about

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Speaker 1: your life as a little boy in pain, as a

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Speaker 1: big boy in pain, and your life as a boy

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Speaker 1: who grew up in Australia and yet couldn't read It's

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Speaker 1: it's such an extraordinary story. And I have never seen

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Speaker 1: a book that at the back has got so many

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Speaker 1: social support.

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Speaker 2: Something about myself. I need a lot of support, you know,

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Speaker 2: I just I wouldn't know where to start. But part

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Speaker 2: of doing a book was I felt very I guess

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Speaker 2: lonely as a kid because I didn't know where to

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Speaker 2: go or who to explain things to. And I thought,

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Speaker 2: if someone does read it and they feel a certain way,

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Speaker 2: then maybe call one eight hundred to get some help.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about your when you were growing up. So

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Speaker 1: your family came out from England where you were born,

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Speaker 1: your Irish mum, you're an Italian dad, and you ended

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Speaker 1: up in a very very working class suburb in Melbourne

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Speaker 1: and it was a tough life.

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Speaker 2: It's a bit the wild West where you know, I

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Speaker 2: know there's a tougher places, but in my little mind,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was afraid people are going to break

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Speaker 2: into our house. Every day. There was violence in the street.

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Speaker 2: I mean you could walk down the street and you

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Speaker 2: can hear the domestic violence, like it's you're walking past

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Speaker 2: different domestic violence display homes was like all over the place.

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Speaker 2: People would fight their people in the middle of the

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Speaker 2: commission housing kind of grass area. The phone box got

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Speaker 2: broken every day. If you went to the milk burrow

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Speaker 2: of the fish and chip shop, someone had stand guard.

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Speaker 2: You went to the swimming pool, you do a lap,

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Speaker 2: have a fight, do a lap, have a fight. It

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Speaker 2: was really like you couldn't escape it.

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Speaker 1: You become a boxer during that time.

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Speaker 2: Yes, during it a little bit later, but because of

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Speaker 2: that time, I think.

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Speaker 1: That you learned to that physical strength would be a

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Speaker 1: way to protect yourself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So even more so than physical strength. The psychology

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Speaker 2: of making people think, you know, fucking crazy was the

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Speaker 2: was the strategy, because the bullies pick on people that

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Speaker 2: are vulnerable, and I had some pretty vulnerable situations. There's

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Speaker 2: a couple of reasons, but one was I knew that

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Speaker 2: if I appeared that way, then the fight's half. One.

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Speaker 2: I would whack myself in the face and pull my

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Speaker 2: own hair and kind of you know, it's like really,

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Speaker 2: but the whole thing was an act all the time.

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Speaker 1: And what was going on inside obviously this fear, but

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Speaker 1: also an urge to protect your mom from your dad,

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Speaker 1: who was a dark person.

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Speaker 2: And emotionally, yeah, you know what was really hard was

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Speaker 2: physical abuse. You know what's happening, but they can hide

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Speaker 2: it from you. The controlling side of thing, which really

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Speaker 2: gets to me, the emotional abuse, verbal and controlling abuse

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Speaker 2: where you know, you see your mum is a prisoner

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Speaker 2: and scared, and you know, when you watch a movie,

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Speaker 2: if you see every part of a scene, it can

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Speaker 2: have less impact than what you don't see. It's what

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Speaker 2: you know is happening behind the doors or at night

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Speaker 2: when you're sleep and you know you can't see it,

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Speaker 2: but you don't. You know it's that and also no

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Speaker 2: one explaining it to you.

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Speaker 1: So the imaginings, yeah, but based on what you know

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Speaker 1: is happening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but then you think about you know, things happened

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Speaker 2: to me and no one knew, but how could they not?

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Speaker 2: If I get emotional, it's because it's I never really

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Speaker 2: talked out loud about a lot of things that are

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Speaker 2: in a book until recently. And it's still kind of

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Speaker 2: hard to talk about. What I'm talking about is the

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Speaker 2: abuse that happened to me that no one knew about.

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Speaker 2: He's the same thing like that happens to a lot

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Speaker 2: of women, kids, and shit happens, and you know, people

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Speaker 2: either don't notice or they pretend not to. And throughout

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Speaker 2: my life a lot of stuff was swept under the rug.

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Speaker 2: I just got fucking sick of it, and I thought,

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Speaker 2: you know, I got to I write it down and

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Speaker 2: then I have to talk about it, and you know

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about but yeah, well.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: people would know you through your work, particularly you know

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Speaker 1: that it's a famous portrait of Heath Ledger, the beautiful

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Speaker 1: Three Shades of Heat. And I think there's a tendency

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Speaker 1: for people to think when people are successful, that everything's

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Speaker 1: been perfect for them, or everything's been laid out for them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look how good looking is And I will say,

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Speaker 2: look at beautiful wife, look at his beautiful Childrendren.

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Speaker 1: But your tale is so far removed from that. But

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Speaker 1: not only that, there was always, even as you were

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Speaker 1: this young boy in these really terrible and terrifying circumstances,

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Speaker 1: there was something in you that wanted more, Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: still want more, and it's not you know, I know

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Speaker 1: there's different ways of describing success, And to me, the

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Speaker 1: ultimate is that one day my kids look at me

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Speaker 1: and they they're proud of me, and they say they

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Speaker 1: love me. That's my ultimate success.

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Speaker 2: But growing up when you don't have a lot, you know,

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Speaker 2: I wanted a way to get out and to be successful.

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Speaker 2: Turns out that painting was my way.

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Speaker 1: So there were five of you kids, There was your

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Speaker 1: father who.

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Speaker 2: Was He kind of disappeared halfway through.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and left you really to slip into another level

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Speaker 1: of poverty.

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Speaker 2: What he did was my You know, when you control someone,

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Speaker 2: it only lasts for so long, you know, and my

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Speaker 2: was brave enough at some point to leave, and he

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Speaker 2: wanted us to blame my mom, so he made it

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Speaker 2: extra extra hard. He didn't pay one cent to child support.

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Speaker 2: You know, he quit his company so he didn't have to.

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Speaker 2: You know. He preferred to be earning nothing and give

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Speaker 2: nothing and to make us for resent her. And for

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Speaker 2: a little while it worked, and you know he kind of.

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Speaker 1: Wise up to that as well, and you ended up

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Speaker 1: the five of you living in a housing commission flat

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Speaker 1: that your house that your mom had.

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Speaker 2: She hustled her way in. You know, I kind of

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Speaker 2: get sick of having to hustle and the thought of

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Speaker 2: her having to do her whole life. But I think

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Speaker 2: there were four of us kids at that point, and

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Speaker 2: my mom my mom slept on the couch, you know,

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Speaker 2: and I just look at what it takes to survive is,

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Speaker 2: you know, for a single mom na's situation, And it's

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Speaker 2: kind of why when she's missed a few things, you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know if she missed them or if Yeah, right,

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Speaker 2: so you know what it's like you're a mum for

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Speaker 2: But if someone was making it very hard for you

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Speaker 2: and you're living in a shit hole and you can't

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Speaker 2: I don't have time to work, and or you're working

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Speaker 2: as much as you can, it's not much. So you know,

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Speaker 2: some things can you can miss or you just can't

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Speaker 2: deal with.

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Speaker 1: I guess have you ever asked your mum? I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of afraid to upset her. That's that's a really common thing.

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Speaker 1: I think. Also when you know that thing, the point

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Speaker 1: that you get to as an adult where you realize

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Speaker 1: the shortcomings of your own parents because of your own

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Speaker 1: shortcomings as a parent often I still don't understand.

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Speaker 2: There's a couple of things that bother me. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I also you know I can, I can leave them.

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Speaker 2: I don't need an explanation. I kind of know.

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Speaker 1: Has your mom read the book?

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Speaker 2: No, she wouldn't have read the book. There's some shit

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Speaker 2: in there that I think should have been talked about.

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Speaker 2: But as you know, same things never happened. Nothing ever happened.

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Speaker 1: Well, because you know, the story of you is like

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Speaker 1: parallel Vincent's on different tracks and kind of all moving

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Speaker 1: in the same direction. But one track is pain, and

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Speaker 1: one track is dyslexia, and one track is this boy

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Speaker 1: who wants out and is a brilliant artist, even from

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Speaker 1: a really young age. But if you want to talk

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Speaker 1: about people slipping through the cracks, this is like a

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Speaker 1: couple of passages in this book really struck me. One

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Speaker 1: is about your father, but this one. From the primary

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Speaker 1: grades right through until I left high school, I never

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Speaker 1: passed a class. I didn't even get an E. I

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Speaker 1: simply received no grades at all. I never read a book,

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Speaker 1: not that I didn't want to, and I couldn't copy

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Speaker 1: work from the blackboard into my exercise books. I never

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Speaker 1: once did homework. I didn't even know the alphabet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was never sure whether it was blackboard or

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Speaker 2: backboard because I couldn't spell it. But I think about

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Speaker 2: my own kids, and you know, it's funny I read

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Speaker 2: to them, they read to me. Really. Yeah, we did

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Speaker 2: miss the men books in different accents each page. It's fun.

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Speaker 2: I make up stories. But I know if my yeah,

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Speaker 2: I know what's going on with my kids, and I

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Speaker 2: just think, I mean, you can miss a few things.

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Speaker 2: But I couldn't even spell my own address. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I can't remember if I could even spell my own name.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know what day it was. I couldn't even

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Speaker 2: spell the days of the week, you know how like

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Speaker 2: it's it's one of the questions. It's like did you know?

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Speaker 2: Or you know? Did you I thought I was. I

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Speaker 2: really thought I was stupid, you know. And for a

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Speaker 2: kid to for no one to say, oh, you know,

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Speaker 2: we'll work on it. No one read a book to me,

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Speaker 2: So you think, am I case that people have given

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Speaker 2: up on? And you know, I was in a special

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Speaker 2: class and all those things. But at the same time

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Speaker 2: I was popular, maybe for the wrong things, and I

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Speaker 2: could have a conversation and I just thought, you know,

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Speaker 2: what the fuck's going on, Like, why why isn't anyone

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Speaker 2: Why isn't anyone saying anything? And even the teachers, you know,

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Speaker 2: they put you in a different class. I'd recess at

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Speaker 2: a different time. I don't know how it got through it.

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Speaker 1: Tell me how you found your way to the boxing,

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Speaker 1: or how the boxing found you.

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Speaker 2: I may have been at a friend's place after school

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Speaker 2: and we walk past this suburban boxing gym is like

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Speaker 2: a backyard gym, Jack Ronnie gym, backyard gym that trained

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Speaker 2: world champions, pretty amazing, and we walked past and I

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Speaker 2: just looked in there and it's just like it called

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Speaker 2: out to me. Yeah, even you know, it's funny. Maybe

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Speaker 2: I am very emotional, but it's funny the things that

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Speaker 2: bring out the emotion. Yeah, just the thought that you

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Speaker 2: spend your whole life like sucking it stuff and then

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Speaker 2: you know you, Yeah, it's like a you don't realize

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Speaker 2: that you can find something special in the most simple places.

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Speaker 2: When you're a kid and your self confidence is low,

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Speaker 2: you're looking desperately for a place. And if you're good

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Speaker 2: at being bad and you get encouraged by your mates,

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Speaker 2: then you become more bad. If you're the class clown,

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Speaker 2: you become a little bit funnier. And I was happy

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Speaker 2: to get kicked out of class as often as possible

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Speaker 2: because it meant I didn't have to face doing the schoolwork.

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Speaker 2: So that's what I did. And I became you know,

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Speaker 2: get into a fight and I'd win, and that meant okay,

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Speaker 2: Now I know my currency.

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Speaker 1: And you had a certain like cuteos, a certain prestige.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I built it very high throughout my teens. I was.

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Speaker 2: It kind of makes me laugh because you know, I

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Speaker 2: was trained very hard, and I was strong and wiry.

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Speaker 2: I was so sadly so violent that you know not

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Speaker 2: I was never a bully, but I would do whatever

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Speaker 2: it takes not to lose my position. So if that

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Speaker 2: meant knives, bats, picket fences, bowles, bottles like, I would

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Speaker 2: do whatever it takes because I'm not losing. And I

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Speaker 2: think it made me, i mean, have a very competitive spirit.

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Speaker 2: And I chose the wrong place to kind of use it.

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Speaker 1: Well, you didn't have anyone to show you another place

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Speaker 1: at that point to channel yourself. Didn't have your dad.

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Speaker 2: Well, he was part of teaching me that as well,

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Speaker 2: so he taught me in every way to take shortcuts,

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Speaker 2: like there was you never do the right thing. You know,

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Speaker 2: he was just a cheat all the time.

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Speaker 1: Because it says you talk about one of the things

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Speaker 1: that observations you make about him in your book, and

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Speaker 1: it's interesting because you're a dad now, was that he

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Speaker 1: never read a book to you. He never kicked a ball,

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Speaker 1: he never shared and watched a movie with you. He

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Speaker 1: never took you fishing. He never did anything. The only

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Speaker 1: thing he taught you to.

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Speaker 2: Do was he took me fishing once and it was

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Speaker 2: a fishing competition with other dads and families, and he

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Speaker 2: took me to a trout farm, bought the fish, rubbed

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Speaker 2: it in some dirt, said, and we won a competition.

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Speaker 2: So he just taught me again to cheat. Missed out

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Speaker 2: in the fishing part and one, yeah, that's right. So

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Speaker 2: it didn't really win anything.

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Speaker 1: And because of that, So because of this absence and

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Speaker 1: a boy craves his father.

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Speaker 2: I still do. It's weird.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But when you found yourself in the boxing gym

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Speaker 1: with Jack older man, so.

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Speaker 2: Jack said, if he saw that I was good at boxing,

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Speaker 2: and for the first time I got to use the

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Speaker 2: stuff that I could do well in a positive way.

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Speaker 2: I was winning fights right away. I felt like I'd

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Speaker 2: finally found something that comes completely natural that I can

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Speaker 2: be proud of. And he said, if you get in,

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Speaker 2: if you get into fights outside of this gym, I

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Speaker 2: understand if you back in against you all, you're defending yourself.

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Speaker 2: If you be you know that guy, you're not training here.

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Speaker 2: And it was the first time anyone really set boundaries

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Speaker 2: for me. And it was a very special feeling.

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Speaker 1: And you understood that straight away.

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Speaker 2: I was desperate for it.

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Speaker 1: How much of you did he see at that point?

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Speaker 2: Interestingly, just after Australian story, I had a really amazing

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Speaker 2: email from his son who said his Jack's passion and

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Speaker 2: what he was very good at is helping youse that

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Speaker 2: we're in trouble and a lot of the kids at

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Speaker 2: the gym where I don't know any of this. He

305
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Speaker 2: also was secretly a very passionate artist, which I find

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Speaker 2: that he didn't share with people. And I think we

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Speaker 2: had a lot of stuff in common, as you know

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Speaker 2: people growing up, so he I think he identified me

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Speaker 2: and he it's very clever that he without throwing too

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Speaker 2: much attention on you, so you feel, you know, like

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Speaker 2: a performance anxiety he was able to encourage me and

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Speaker 2: set some boundaries without too many that you would rebel.

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Speaker 1: Coming up after this break, Vincent tells us about getting

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Speaker 1: kicked out of school and what he refers to as

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Speaker 1: his apprenticeship in the world of crime. What was going

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Speaker 1: on at school at that time or you were still

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Speaker 1: trying to make a qud to help out your mom

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Speaker 1: and to help out yourself.

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Speaker 2: By thirteen, I was kicked out of school. And again,

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Speaker 2: you kick a kid out of school and they got

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Speaker 2: nowhere to go, and no one says you have to

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Speaker 2: go to school anymore. And you're thirteen, Like my kid's

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Speaker 2: fifteen now, I can't imagine what he would do. And

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Speaker 2: so thirteen about turn fourteen, no school, a lot of

325
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Speaker 2: you know, because just stupid. Maybe you're doing an apprenticeship.

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Speaker 2: That's what people used to say. Become a hairdresser, a

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Speaker 2: beautician or doing it, you know, become a mechanic or

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Speaker 2: some kind of apprentice, and then you get you know,

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Speaker 2: you just get paid ship money as child labor, which

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Speaker 2: is what happened for years in restaurants. My dad said, well,

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Speaker 2: the first time I'll step in and I'll get you

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Speaker 2: a job. Got me a job with the Dodgy Brothers

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Speaker 2: pizza business.

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Speaker 1: Because the one thing your dad had done or you

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Speaker 1: had learnt from him, was to cook.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I still love cooking a cook almost every day,

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Speaker 2: and I do it with the kids and Asher cooks.

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Speaker 2: And you know this, When I walk into a restaurant,

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Speaker 2: I smell the food. It's the one positive memory that

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Speaker 2: I've created. I think about my dad, He's an incredible cook,

341
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Speaker 2: and all my family for generations and cooks and chefs,

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Speaker 2: I think it's you know.

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Speaker 1: The site.

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Speaker 2: They make incredible mashed potato again, Generations pie for their quisine.

345
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Speaker 2: My mom can cook. So you didn't really teach me.

346
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Speaker 2: I obsessively watched and asked a lot of questions like hey,

347
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Speaker 2: did how about this? I generally I must have been

348
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Speaker 2: an annoying kid because I couldn't read and write. I

349
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Speaker 2: asked fuck, I asked a lot of questions like I

350
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Speaker 2: do I remember now people saying you ask a lot

351
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Speaker 2: of questions.

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Speaker 1: So that didn't work out. Dodgy Brother's restaurant didn't work out.

353
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Speaker 2: So again I learned. It was like going You know

354
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Speaker 2: when someone goes to jail and they learned dodgy shit,

355
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Speaker 2: That's what I learned from them like they were proper.

356
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Speaker 2: It got worse. I got another job in a peacher shop.

357
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Speaker 2: There were drug dealers. They were actually so the first ones.

358
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Speaker 2: They were not nice people. They treated me badly. They

359
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Speaker 2: worked me seven year, eighty hours a week. I was

360
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Speaker 2: fourteen year fourteen. I used to deliver pizzas in the

361
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Speaker 2: waitresses cars and they would let me. That was kind

362
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Speaker 2: of a good part, but sometimes I did all nighters. Anyway,

363
00:23:12,485 --> 00:23:15,045
Speaker 2: these guys were so dodgy they burnt down their pizza

364
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Speaker 2: shop and one of them cooked themselves in the process.

365
00:23:18,405 --> 00:23:19,125
Speaker 2: Insurance job.

366
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Speaker 1: Wow, not over cooking pizzas. I also end up being

367
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Speaker 1: a life insurance job.

368
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Speaker 2: Yes, so I knew how to cook. I couldn't read

369
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Speaker 2: the menu. I don't know what people were getting in

370
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Speaker 2: their meals if it matched the menu. But they were

371
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Speaker 2: good pastors. That was popular. Yeah. Later I got a

372
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Speaker 2: job in another pizza shop. They would deal drugs and

373
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Speaker 2: I would help them and i'd sell. And you know,

374
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Speaker 2: I think I was getting to sixteen or something now,

375
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Speaker 2: and I remember I was moving a chair and it

376
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Speaker 2: rattled and I suck my hand in there. Oh, then

377
00:23:50,805 --> 00:23:54,165
Speaker 2: there's a gun. I'm like, oh cool now, I'm going

378
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Speaker 2: next level. So I kept it. Yes, I put in

379
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Speaker 2: a pizza box and took it home. And now I'm

380
00:24:00,645 --> 00:24:05,605
Speaker 2: you know, you know, already in trouble and I got

381
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Speaker 2: a gun. Yeah, and I didn't hurt anyone with the

382
00:24:09,965 --> 00:24:12,685
Speaker 2: but I could have. And I look at back to

383
00:24:12,725 --> 00:24:15,485
Speaker 2: where we were somewhere before that.

384
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Speaker 1: That's different taking you.

385
00:24:18,605 --> 00:24:21,245
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I did my apprenticeship in crime, and I

386
00:24:21,285 --> 00:24:23,405
Speaker 2: was good at it. And you know the forks in

387
00:24:23,445 --> 00:24:25,965
Speaker 2: the road that kids can take, and I was at

388
00:24:25,965 --> 00:24:29,925
Speaker 2: that point where, you know, I would have been very

389
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Speaker 2: good down that dark road.

390
00:24:33,005 --> 00:24:35,325
Speaker 1: But you didn't want it. And this is I find

391
00:24:35,405 --> 00:24:42,965
Speaker 1: so interesting. So even though everything could have pointed you

392
00:24:43,405 --> 00:24:47,645
Speaker 1: that way, there was nobody really aside from your boxing coach,

393
00:24:47,685 --> 00:24:53,285
Speaker 1: who believed in you or expected anything from you at

394
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Speaker 1: that point.

395
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Speaker 2: The criminals believed in me too, Ye, that was the problem.

396
00:24:57,525 --> 00:25:00,365
Speaker 1: But yeah, you didn't want their belief in you. And

397
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Speaker 1: there was a time when you you completely turned your

398
00:25:04,685 --> 00:25:06,925
Speaker 1: back on that. And it was a real like you said,

399
00:25:06,925 --> 00:25:09,965
Speaker 1: a fork in the road. But all this time you're

400
00:25:10,125 --> 00:25:13,885
Speaker 1: drawing and you've got your cousin, You're at your nose

401
00:25:14,045 --> 00:25:16,925
Speaker 1: pastigiity where he's yeah, right.

402
00:25:16,765 --> 00:25:20,565
Speaker 2: I had a great cousin, Enzo, who encouraged me and

403
00:25:20,605 --> 00:25:25,005
Speaker 2: taught me to draw, gave me confidence again, one of

404
00:25:25,045 --> 00:25:28,925
Speaker 2: the first people. Just a good person. And the problem

405
00:25:28,965 --> 00:25:32,765
Speaker 2: with drawing and art and still a problem, is that

406
00:25:32,965 --> 00:25:36,605
Speaker 2: it doesn't provide like it doesn't look like an opportunity

407
00:25:36,645 --> 00:25:37,765
Speaker 2: for a way out.

408
00:25:38,005 --> 00:25:41,045
Speaker 1: Tell me about the moment when you first made money

409
00:25:41,325 --> 00:25:42,245
Speaker 1: from your ash.

410
00:25:43,045 --> 00:25:46,005
Speaker 2: There was a couple of moments. Well, firstly, I wanted

411
00:25:46,005 --> 00:25:49,525
Speaker 2: to thank Jack Renie for being my coach, so I

412
00:25:49,605 --> 00:25:52,205
Speaker 2: drew him a drawing he didn't know I could draw

413
00:25:52,445 --> 00:25:55,565
Speaker 2: drawing of Lona Rose and Johnny Vamajon And now I know.

414
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Speaker 1: Why who he'd coached.

415
00:25:57,445 --> 00:26:00,085
Speaker 2: Yes, so he was the coach of world champions and

416
00:26:00,725 --> 00:26:04,165
Speaker 2: I see them in the gym. You know when I

417
00:26:04,205 --> 00:26:07,045
Speaker 2: was fighting, Lona Rose would sit in the corner sometimes

418
00:26:07,125 --> 00:26:09,845
Speaker 2: and it was really special. Wow. So I did this

419
00:26:10,445 --> 00:26:14,365
Speaker 2: drawing and I know now because he was a secret artist,

420
00:26:14,725 --> 00:26:18,245
Speaker 2: why it hit him And he said, oh, this is

421
00:26:18,525 --> 00:26:22,045
Speaker 2: like maybe it was kind of insulting, but not. He said,

422
00:26:22,045 --> 00:26:23,685
Speaker 2: maybe a better at drawing and boxing.

423
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Speaker 1: Thanks, but you're a good boxer, so if you're even

424
00:26:27,845 --> 00:26:29,325
Speaker 1: better at drawing, yes.

425
00:26:29,125 --> 00:26:31,925
Speaker 2: Actually I hadn't lost a fight, so that's that's a

426
00:26:31,965 --> 00:26:35,845
Speaker 2: great call. Yeah, and we did it. So he took

427
00:26:35,885 --> 00:26:38,845
Speaker 2: that painting that was a sketch. He asked me to

428
00:26:38,845 --> 00:26:41,405
Speaker 2: do a painting, took it to the Boxing Hall of Fame.

429
00:26:41,565 --> 00:26:46,325
Speaker 2: We made Prince Elonroz and Johnny Famjoon signed them. Some

430
00:26:46,405 --> 00:26:48,685
Speaker 2: money went to a charity, and someone went to me

431
00:26:48,805 --> 00:26:52,045
Speaker 2: and I got paid. And then I started to say, oh,

432
00:26:52,205 --> 00:26:55,645
Speaker 2: sports to memorabilia, that's art, That's what I thought. And

433
00:26:55,685 --> 00:26:58,885
Speaker 2: I started to paint like Mornie, who later became a friend.

434
00:26:59,605 --> 00:27:02,085
Speaker 2: Finally I painted a few like Kyler Minoka friend as well.

435
00:27:02,085 --> 00:27:04,645
Speaker 2: I did a sketch of her. I lined up for

436
00:27:04,845 --> 00:27:06,765
Speaker 2: three hours to get her to sign. I haven't told

437
00:27:06,805 --> 00:27:08,405
Speaker 2: her this story because I didn't want it to know

438
00:27:08,445 --> 00:27:11,725
Speaker 2: how much younger I was. But I lined up and

439
00:27:11,845 --> 00:27:13,685
Speaker 2: got to sign it, and then I'd sell it. So

440
00:27:13,805 --> 00:27:17,805
Speaker 2: I was kind of trying to make money off well

441
00:27:17,805 --> 00:27:20,245
Speaker 2: however I could doing pictures, and then I started doing

442
00:27:20,285 --> 00:27:21,285
Speaker 2: portraits of people.

443
00:27:22,565 --> 00:27:27,285
Speaker 1: And then, incredibly, and I say incredibly, given that we

444
00:27:27,365 --> 00:27:31,125
Speaker 1: know where, we know where young Vincent is and where

445
00:27:31,125 --> 00:27:36,445
Speaker 1: he's come from, you wanted to study art.

446
00:27:38,485 --> 00:27:40,805
Speaker 2: You know. I just wanted to say that I had

447
00:27:40,845 --> 00:27:45,325
Speaker 2: an education again, it just felt dumb. It's like, you know, people,

448
00:27:46,085 --> 00:27:49,405
Speaker 2: I just do you know HCBC whatever it was at

449
00:27:49,405 --> 00:27:51,965
Speaker 2: that time, And I was like, you know, I couldn't

450
00:27:52,005 --> 00:27:55,965
Speaker 2: tell people I never passed class, didn't even finish your nine.

451
00:27:56,085 --> 00:27:57,965
Speaker 1: Could you read at this point at all?

452
00:27:58,165 --> 00:28:01,485
Speaker 2: No? So I still don't read well. But what I've

453
00:28:01,565 --> 00:28:07,845
Speaker 2: learned to do is so writing down things is a problem.

454
00:28:07,885 --> 00:28:12,925
Speaker 2: Reading Now, I can skim read very fast, and I

455
00:28:13,005 --> 00:28:17,245
Speaker 2: see words and sentences as pictures. I recognize all the pictures,

456
00:28:17,645 --> 00:28:20,765
Speaker 2: and somehow your brain very quickly put some into context

457
00:28:20,845 --> 00:28:23,125
Speaker 2: and you can read. So I can read my text messages.

458
00:28:23,165 --> 00:28:26,045
Speaker 2: And then I replied with voice to text, which can

459
00:28:26,085 --> 00:28:27,725
Speaker 2: come up with some funny stuff.

460
00:28:28,405 --> 00:28:31,245
Speaker 1: And so you went to RT yes, and you got

461
00:28:31,285 --> 00:28:34,205
Speaker 1: into the after a few false starts. You applied a

462
00:28:34,245 --> 00:28:35,005
Speaker 1: few times.

463
00:28:35,125 --> 00:28:39,125
Speaker 2: Yep, I lied again, So all my life feeling like

464
00:28:39,165 --> 00:28:42,245
Speaker 2: another liar to get success, I lied, made up a

465
00:28:42,285 --> 00:28:45,725
Speaker 2: fake report, talk my way in. After a few attempts,

466
00:28:45,725 --> 00:28:48,045
Speaker 2: when I saw what you actually have to do, So

467
00:28:48,125 --> 00:28:48,925
Speaker 2: then I'm in there.

468
00:28:49,285 --> 00:28:53,365
Speaker 1: Because interestingly, some people might think, oh, to go to

469
00:28:53,485 --> 00:28:55,285
Speaker 1: art school, you've just got to be good at art.

470
00:28:56,405 --> 00:28:59,685
Speaker 1: But they also expect this academic side of you.

471
00:29:00,165 --> 00:29:03,845
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and I respect the history of art

472
00:29:03,965 --> 00:29:07,805
Speaker 2: and people articulating art like I get it and it's important.

473
00:29:08,165 --> 00:29:10,285
Speaker 2: But I hadn't even been to an art gallery. You know,

474
00:29:10,325 --> 00:29:12,365
Speaker 2: I didn't know who Picasso was. I don't know anything.

475
00:29:12,645 --> 00:29:14,845
Speaker 2: I still don't know a lot about art history. But

476
00:29:14,965 --> 00:29:18,205
Speaker 2: you apparently meant it's a visual language. It doesn't make sense.

477
00:29:18,525 --> 00:29:24,885
Speaker 1: So you're studying art. How are you received amongst I'm

478
00:29:25,005 --> 00:29:29,325
Speaker 1: going to say a very middle class, kind of privileged

479
00:29:30,005 --> 00:29:31,045
Speaker 1: clutch of people.

480
00:29:31,445 --> 00:29:34,565
Speaker 2: It's very much that. Now I'm not here to judge

481
00:29:34,765 --> 00:29:37,485
Speaker 2: who goes there, but there was a lot of very

482
00:29:38,245 --> 00:29:42,045
Speaker 2: privileged kids with you know, an account at the art

483
00:29:42,085 --> 00:29:44,925
Speaker 2: store and some of them even a driver, and you know,

484
00:29:45,565 --> 00:29:48,365
Speaker 2: and there was older students who kind of had done

485
00:29:48,405 --> 00:29:52,205
Speaker 2: well in their financial life, and then they went back

486
00:29:52,205 --> 00:29:56,245
Speaker 2: to university. And then there was me. And here I

487
00:29:56,285 --> 00:29:59,605
Speaker 2: am again in school, having to lie and not be

488
00:29:59,605 --> 00:30:03,965
Speaker 2: able to pass anything. So I started history. I can't

489
00:30:03,965 --> 00:30:08,405
Speaker 2: do it at all, So I started to get paid

490
00:30:08,445 --> 00:30:12,245
Speaker 2: for doing portraits and pay people to do my essays.

491
00:30:12,445 --> 00:30:16,645
Speaker 2: Even resorted to, you know, selling drugs, which I don't

492
00:30:16,765 --> 00:30:19,685
Speaker 2: condone to pay my way through like.

493
00:30:19,685 --> 00:30:24,125
Speaker 1: Whatever it took, because you always had this quality even

494
00:30:24,165 --> 00:30:27,565
Speaker 1: when you're at your most lost. People I'm going to

495
00:30:27,605 --> 00:30:33,485
Speaker 1: say special people for shorthand special people saw the special

496
00:30:33,565 --> 00:30:37,125
Speaker 1: in you even when you didn't see it in yourself.

497
00:30:37,685 --> 00:30:42,565
Speaker 2: It's funny. I think good energy draws good energy and positivity,

498
00:30:42,925 --> 00:30:48,525
Speaker 2: adventurous energy. Also bad energy draws it brings in bad energy.

499
00:30:48,525 --> 00:30:52,645
Speaker 2: And I think I had the right energy to, you know,

500
00:30:52,965 --> 00:30:56,205
Speaker 2: give out to the right people. And I still do it,

501
00:30:56,245 --> 00:30:58,685
Speaker 2: like I have a lot of All this shit happened

502
00:30:59,365 --> 00:31:01,365
Speaker 2: and I've come out the other end with I have

503
00:31:01,445 --> 00:31:04,685
Speaker 2: the most amazing family people around me. It's kind of

504
00:31:04,725 --> 00:31:06,765
Speaker 2: like I created my own little thing.

505
00:31:07,045 --> 00:31:08,965
Speaker 1: And even when you were saying earlier that you know,

506
00:31:09,045 --> 00:31:11,925
Speaker 1: when you were at school and you were you'd learned

507
00:31:11,965 --> 00:31:13,765
Speaker 1: to be good at being bad because you couldn't be

508
00:31:13,805 --> 00:31:18,045
Speaker 1: good at being good Normally, those kids are not liked. Normally,

509
00:31:18,125 --> 00:31:21,125
Speaker 1: those kids are not popular, but you were popular and

510
00:31:21,165 --> 00:31:24,765
Speaker 1: people liked you. It's a very unusual, just a very

511
00:31:24,805 --> 00:31:29,165
Speaker 1: likable But I'm there must be something about it.

512
00:31:29,245 --> 00:31:32,565
Speaker 2: I feel very I can't tell you how lucky. I

513
00:31:32,605 --> 00:31:37,445
Speaker 2: feel like. It's some of the adventures too, some of

514
00:31:37,445 --> 00:31:39,525
Speaker 2: them aren't even in the book because they're too ridiculous,

515
00:31:39,845 --> 00:31:44,765
Speaker 2: and it's I don't know. So I have this very

516
00:31:45,805 --> 00:31:50,565
Speaker 2: strange coincidences and things happen like you know, Heath and

517
00:31:50,645 --> 00:31:51,285
Speaker 2: different things.

518
00:31:51,285 --> 00:31:54,045
Speaker 1: And so when you say Heath, that's Heath Ledger. What

519
00:31:54,245 --> 00:31:57,205
Speaker 1: was the sequence of events? You meet in from a

520
00:31:57,245 --> 00:32:00,805
Speaker 1: band or twelve hundred techniques? Who was a guy around town?

521
00:32:03,165 --> 00:32:07,405
Speaker 2: That's funny, I'm calling that even meeting in for you know,

522
00:32:07,525 --> 00:32:10,805
Speaker 2: I just said he was at the time just becoming

523
00:32:11,485 --> 00:32:14,765
Speaker 2: a famous Australian musician, first to win Arias for hip

524
00:32:14,765 --> 00:32:17,125
Speaker 2: Hop and Big Day Out and all these things. And

525
00:32:17,605 --> 00:32:20,605
Speaker 2: there's a whole bunch of creative guys from Perth that

526
00:32:20,805 --> 00:32:24,085
Speaker 2: moved to Melbourne and he was one of them, and

527
00:32:24,125 --> 00:32:26,365
Speaker 2: there was a bunch of others and they were all

528
00:32:26,565 --> 00:32:28,645
Speaker 2: mates with Heath, and they'd known each other for a

529
00:32:28,685 --> 00:32:30,925
Speaker 2: long time. Heath would come down and hang out in

530
00:32:31,005 --> 00:32:34,245
Speaker 2: this posse that I was now a part of. But

531
00:32:34,285 --> 00:32:35,965
Speaker 2: you know, we'd hang out in groups and we would

532
00:32:36,285 --> 00:32:40,365
Speaker 2: you know, we always got along very well. Remember Heath

533
00:32:40,445 --> 00:32:43,525
Speaker 2: directing in for film Clips and Gee would have been

534
00:32:43,525 --> 00:32:46,325
Speaker 2: the best director. You can know someone for a long time,

535
00:32:46,365 --> 00:32:48,485
Speaker 2: but then you can spend one weekend or one day

536
00:32:48,685 --> 00:32:52,485
Speaker 2: or one night and something else goes to another level.

537
00:32:52,685 --> 00:32:57,805
Speaker 2: And it was this weekend in Perth that all of

538
00:32:57,845 --> 00:33:00,685
Speaker 2: a sudden, it's just Heath and I and we just

539
00:33:00,805 --> 00:33:05,845
Speaker 2: opened up, like to everything. Very strangely. It was like

540
00:33:05,885 --> 00:33:10,925
Speaker 2: a confession thing, and he told me about everything. He

541
00:33:11,005 --> 00:33:15,005
Speaker 2: was feeling really vulnerable time. He's really a very complex

542
00:33:15,165 --> 00:33:17,405
Speaker 2: person and he had a lot going on.

543
00:33:17,765 --> 00:33:20,085
Speaker 1: Was he filming the Joker at this time?

544
00:33:20,325 --> 00:33:22,725
Speaker 2: He had finished a Joker, right and he was right

545
00:33:22,765 --> 00:33:25,765
Speaker 2: into that, and then he was filming the blah blah

546
00:33:25,765 --> 00:33:31,685
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah Imaginarium. Yeah, something, So I think

547
00:33:31,845 --> 00:33:33,965
Speaker 2: he kind of says, I don't think his heart was

548
00:33:33,965 --> 00:33:36,525
Speaker 2: in that, and he was struggling pushing through. He also

549
00:33:37,005 --> 00:33:39,205
Speaker 2: had broken up with his ex, he was missing his child,

550
00:33:39,525 --> 00:33:41,965
Speaker 2: he wasn't drinking, he was trying, He was ambitious about

551
00:33:42,005 --> 00:33:45,165
Speaker 2: the future. I mean, this is what I can say

552
00:33:45,325 --> 00:33:49,645
Speaker 2: without saying everything, because doing a portrait, a lot of

553
00:33:49,685 --> 00:33:52,405
Speaker 2: it's got to do with trust. That stuff people knew.

554
00:33:53,205 --> 00:33:54,805
Speaker 2: But there was a whole lot of stuff that I

555
00:33:54,845 --> 00:33:57,605
Speaker 2: shared and he shared that we hadn't shared before, and

556
00:33:59,005 --> 00:34:01,725
Speaker 2: I feel like he wanted to He avoided having his

557
00:34:01,805 --> 00:34:04,285
Speaker 2: portrait painted his whole life. He felt like it was

558
00:34:04,365 --> 00:34:07,205
Speaker 2: kind of like a spiritual thing to him. He wanted

559
00:34:07,245 --> 00:34:10,165
Speaker 2: me to have everything, every bit of me information. But

560
00:34:10,205 --> 00:34:13,245
Speaker 2: also we just got along really really well.

561
00:34:13,365 --> 00:34:15,245
Speaker 1: So that if anyone was going to paint a portrait

562
00:34:15,285 --> 00:34:16,245
Speaker 1: of him, it was going to be.

563
00:34:16,645 --> 00:34:18,845
Speaker 2: Yeah. He waited. He got asked for years and years,

564
00:34:18,845 --> 00:34:22,285
Speaker 2: and we waited, and we were waiting and waiting, and

565
00:34:22,365 --> 00:34:25,685
Speaker 2: it just timing matched. But there was you know, we

566
00:34:25,765 --> 00:34:29,445
Speaker 2: had a very special chemistry that you know, he just

567
00:34:29,485 --> 00:34:33,605
Speaker 2: feel like, oh fuck, someone understands me, and we both did.

568
00:34:34,405 --> 00:34:36,965
Speaker 2: And when I went to his house that following morning,

569
00:34:37,405 --> 00:34:39,445
Speaker 2: I walked in, it was really weird because it was

570
00:34:39,485 --> 00:34:43,365
Speaker 2: like we didn't even talk, and he grabbed in his

571
00:34:43,405 --> 00:34:45,605
Speaker 2: pajamas with his t shirt off, and he grabbed a

572
00:34:45,685 --> 00:34:48,485
Speaker 2: chair and he walked outside and he put the chair

573
00:34:48,565 --> 00:34:50,925
Speaker 2: out on the back of Miranda and he sat in

574
00:34:50,925 --> 00:34:54,165
Speaker 2: the chair and he just meditated. And I was like,

575
00:34:54,245 --> 00:34:56,965
Speaker 2: I was thinking, I start taking photos. It's just like,

576
00:34:57,525 --> 00:35:00,405
Speaker 2: you know, do I meditate? Anyway? I started taking photos

577
00:35:00,445 --> 00:35:03,525
Speaker 2: and he's there for it uncomfortably long time. Then he

578
00:35:03,605 --> 00:35:05,605
Speaker 2: kind of walked around himself like he was still in

579
00:35:05,645 --> 00:35:09,605
Speaker 2: a chair, and yelling and screaming and laughing, and I

580
00:35:09,725 --> 00:35:15,325
Speaker 2: just snapped away and then it ended and we didn't

581
00:35:16,005 --> 00:35:19,765
Speaker 2: you know, it was like truly a collaboration. I've had

582
00:35:19,805 --> 00:35:24,925
Speaker 2: some experiences similar, but nothing like that. He's just without words.

583
00:35:25,165 --> 00:35:28,165
Speaker 2: It was the most powerful performance. He was showing you

584
00:35:29,405 --> 00:35:33,285
Speaker 2: his complexities and all those things we talked about. He

585
00:35:33,365 --> 00:35:35,885
Speaker 2: just turned into a one man show. It was.

586
00:35:36,565 --> 00:35:41,085
Speaker 1: But you also picked out and that's that's As a

587
00:35:41,125 --> 00:35:46,485
Speaker 1: portrait artist, I imagine your the muse for you is

588
00:35:46,525 --> 00:35:49,245
Speaker 1: to find those notes and go it's this.

589
00:35:49,645 --> 00:35:52,405
Speaker 2: It's that because there are a lot of options, and

590
00:35:53,245 --> 00:35:56,725
Speaker 2: I always think to do a good portrait, you can't

591
00:35:56,765 --> 00:35:59,845
Speaker 2: overthink it and it can become a bit contrived or

592
00:35:59,885 --> 00:36:03,325
Speaker 2: literal or something. And there were certain aspects of what

593
00:36:03,485 --> 00:36:05,045
Speaker 2: he was doing that just stood out.

594
00:36:09,925 --> 00:36:13,805
Speaker 1: There is more to my conversation with Vincent Vanchuzzo after

595
00:36:13,845 --> 00:36:18,645
Speaker 1: the break. We talk about how, literally hours upon finishing

596
00:36:18,685 --> 00:36:23,605
Speaker 1: the portraits, Vincent received the news of Heath Ledger's death.

597
00:36:25,205 --> 00:36:28,685
Speaker 1: So there's something magical happened with this portrait. So you

598
00:36:28,845 --> 00:36:30,645
Speaker 1: come back to Melbourne, you're working on it.

599
00:36:30,805 --> 00:36:32,885
Speaker 2: Well, last thing he said, and I think I've spoke

600
00:36:32,925 --> 00:36:35,845
Speaker 2: about this before was this portrait's going to change our life,

601
00:36:35,845 --> 00:36:37,965
Speaker 2: And I thought that was a really weird comment.

602
00:36:38,165 --> 00:36:39,525
Speaker 1: He was going back to the States.

603
00:36:39,645 --> 00:36:41,885
Speaker 2: Yep, he was going back. I was going back to Melbourne,

604
00:36:42,005 --> 00:36:47,405
Speaker 2: and like never before, I worked obsessively, like day and night.

605
00:36:47,685 --> 00:36:51,045
Speaker 2: I was just and thinking about him. You meditate about

606
00:36:51,045 --> 00:36:54,445
Speaker 2: the person and the conversations. I also think that is

607
00:36:54,485 --> 00:36:57,045
Speaker 2: what makes a good portrait apport. It have a life

608
00:36:57,085 --> 00:37:00,165
Speaker 2: and charisma, like you have to believe in it while

609
00:37:00,165 --> 00:37:04,885
Speaker 2: you're painting it. And three weeks, you know, we might

610
00:37:04,885 --> 00:37:07,645
Speaker 2: have had a couple of short texts exchange, but he

611
00:37:07,725 --> 00:37:09,325
Speaker 2: worked flat out and I worked flat out.

612
00:37:09,565 --> 00:37:12,325
Speaker 1: And also as a back note to these, because he'd

613
00:37:12,365 --> 00:37:15,965
Speaker 1: broken up with his partner, he had his daughter who

614
00:37:15,965 --> 00:37:18,965
Speaker 1: he had left. You had a child at that point,

615
00:37:19,045 --> 00:37:22,365
Speaker 1: and you were then married, and that was also complicated.

616
00:37:22,565 --> 00:37:24,045
Speaker 1: So those we.

617
00:37:24,525 --> 00:37:28,005
Speaker 2: Were sharing all this stuff we spoke about. It's like

618
00:37:28,085 --> 00:37:31,405
Speaker 2: he told the future. I know Heith was very ambitious

619
00:37:31,405 --> 00:37:33,925
Speaker 2: about his future, and I know he didn't take his life,

620
00:37:34,005 --> 00:37:38,045
Speaker 2: but he did. And his dad said this, he didn't.

621
00:37:38,805 --> 00:37:42,685
Speaker 2: He thought he wasn't going to grow old. And I

622
00:37:42,765 --> 00:37:45,165
Speaker 2: finally just you know, I don't know why I have

623
00:37:45,245 --> 00:37:48,285
Speaker 2: those thoughts is that's something everyone did. But it was

624
00:37:48,365 --> 00:37:51,885
Speaker 2: like it was something like he knew and he didn't

625
00:37:51,925 --> 00:37:54,445
Speaker 2: say it like he was just throwing the comment out.

626
00:37:54,765 --> 00:37:57,085
Speaker 2: He grabbed my hand and looked in my eyes and

627
00:37:57,125 --> 00:38:00,845
Speaker 2: said it and that's pretty You know, it's just a portrait.

628
00:38:01,245 --> 00:38:05,685
Speaker 2: You think like it changed my life for every day

629
00:38:05,725 --> 00:38:06,285
Speaker 2: of my life.

630
00:38:06,365 --> 00:38:10,085
Speaker 1: Well, of course, because your arrangement with him was that

631
00:38:10,165 --> 00:38:12,605
Speaker 1: he was going to see it when it was finished

632
00:38:12,765 --> 00:38:14,845
Speaker 1: in the flesh, so I sent it to.

633
00:38:14,845 --> 00:38:18,245
Speaker 2: Him that that night that I finished. It was the

634
00:38:18,245 --> 00:38:22,685
Speaker 2: same size as my television TV. Yeah, there's a big TV.

635
00:38:23,085 --> 00:38:25,845
Speaker 2: At the time, I don't know, I spend money on

636
00:38:25,885 --> 00:38:29,045
Speaker 2: stupid shit. I had it next to my TV, and

637
00:38:29,845 --> 00:38:32,765
Speaker 2: I went to bed and I turned the TV on

638
00:38:32,845 --> 00:38:35,205
Speaker 2: and there it is. He's passed away. And it was

639
00:38:35,285 --> 00:38:40,165
Speaker 2: just all of a sudden, I'm thrown into this, like well,

640
00:38:40,245 --> 00:38:44,125
Speaker 2: wind of people knew I was doing the portrait and

641
00:38:44,405 --> 00:38:46,845
Speaker 2: it got to depress and they're calling me within hours

642
00:38:46,925 --> 00:38:51,165
Speaker 2: and you know, news like they're outside my door because

643
00:38:51,285 --> 00:38:54,165
Speaker 2: I don't know why, because there was other stuff to

644
00:38:54,245 --> 00:38:57,165
Speaker 2: do with him to talk about. But somehow this painting

645
00:38:57,445 --> 00:38:59,165
Speaker 2: jumped in the forefront.

646
00:38:58,805 --> 00:39:00,205
Speaker 1: Was on the cover of that it was going to

647
00:39:00,205 --> 00:39:05,125
Speaker 1: be the Archibald, and the Archibald has such a people

648
00:39:05,325 --> 00:39:07,325
Speaker 1: in the country who know nothing about art.

649
00:39:07,605 --> 00:39:10,045
Speaker 2: It's not that important now anymore because I don't know.

650
00:39:10,125 --> 00:39:11,405
Speaker 2: It's just going to have.

651
00:39:14,925 --> 00:39:22,205
Speaker 1: Many of the people's choice, including with Heath. So Heath's

652
00:39:22,485 --> 00:39:25,845
Speaker 1: dad and family decided that you should.

653
00:39:26,165 --> 00:39:29,325
Speaker 2: Stick to the stick to the plan. And I heard

654
00:39:29,445 --> 00:39:33,005
Speaker 2: Heath's voice in my head like, fuck, you're entering it.

655
00:39:33,045 --> 00:39:35,925
Speaker 2: I didn't do that for nothing, neither did you. But

656
00:39:36,445 --> 00:39:39,285
Speaker 2: to have, you know, one of the highest points of

657
00:39:39,325 --> 00:39:42,565
Speaker 2: my career at that time, and having an attached to

658
00:39:42,605 --> 00:39:47,405
Speaker 2: the loss of someone that meant so much to me

659
00:39:47,485 --> 00:39:51,685
Speaker 2: and to everyone else was there. Really it's still very bittersweet.

660
00:39:52,445 --> 00:39:55,405
Speaker 2: Everything about it is like now, I also, have you

661
00:39:55,405 --> 00:39:58,325
Speaker 2: know Kim Ledger such a big part of my life.

662
00:39:58,445 --> 00:40:03,045
Speaker 1: Yes, you hadn't met prior to that, but Heath had

663
00:40:03,085 --> 00:40:06,765
Speaker 1: told him about you and his friendship with you. And

664
00:40:06,885 --> 00:40:11,725
Speaker 1: how long after Heath past did that Archibald happen?

665
00:40:12,725 --> 00:40:16,325
Speaker 2: Oh like a week? Oh, because I was finishing it

666
00:40:16,365 --> 00:40:20,645
Speaker 2: in time for that as well, so raw completely raw,

667
00:40:20,845 --> 00:40:26,125
Speaker 2: like at least maybe even within days. And I was

668
00:40:26,125 --> 00:40:29,685
Speaker 2: in the airport carrying this picture and people are like, oh,

669
00:40:29,725 --> 00:40:32,245
Speaker 2: that's the picture from TV. And I was like, oh yeah,

670
00:40:32,285 --> 00:40:35,845
Speaker 2: it's kind of half smiling and half crying. And I

671
00:40:35,925 --> 00:40:38,965
Speaker 2: spent a lot of time half smiling, half crying since

672
00:40:39,085 --> 00:40:44,205
Speaker 2: because it's like, you know, even recently, I've got you know,

673
00:40:44,925 --> 00:40:47,725
Speaker 2: all his family and his friends and everyone. They're they're

674
00:40:47,805 --> 00:40:52,285
Speaker 2: like my family now, Like it's pretty crazy. And Kim

675
00:40:52,485 --> 00:40:56,925
Speaker 2: recently said to me, Kim Heat's dad said, I wish

676
00:40:57,325 --> 00:41:01,365
Speaker 2: I had understood Heath. I wish Heath I haud have

677
00:41:01,485 --> 00:41:04,405
Speaker 2: known that I now understand him much better than I

678
00:41:04,485 --> 00:41:07,765
Speaker 2: did at the time, because Heath was very spiritual, right.

679
00:41:08,165 --> 00:41:10,805
Speaker 2: They didn't agree on it, you know, they had a rub,

680
00:41:11,005 --> 00:41:17,405
Speaker 2: their career rub because Heath made his decisions instinctively and spiritually,

681
00:41:17,565 --> 00:41:19,325
Speaker 2: and his dad didn't get it.

682
00:41:19,685 --> 00:41:22,565
Speaker 1: He was not common between fathers and sons.

683
00:41:22,765 --> 00:41:25,445
Speaker 2: You managed him for a long time, and I think

684
00:41:25,565 --> 00:41:28,925
Speaker 2: one of the things that really hits him is that

685
00:41:29,205 --> 00:41:34,445
Speaker 2: he now completely gets it. And he wishes that Heath

686
00:41:34,525 --> 00:41:37,845
Speaker 2: had known that he now knows his son better than

687
00:41:37,845 --> 00:41:38,525
Speaker 2: he did before.

688
00:41:39,045 --> 00:41:41,645
Speaker 1: And that's that's partly because he knows you.

689
00:41:42,125 --> 00:41:45,005
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, and that makes me happy that you know,

690
00:41:45,085 --> 00:41:48,445
Speaker 2: I did that for the two of them. Because they've

691
00:41:48,525 --> 00:41:51,005
Speaker 2: done so much for me. It also makes me think

692
00:41:51,045 --> 00:41:54,645
Speaker 2: about doing the book. You know, maybe you just got

693
00:41:54,685 --> 00:41:56,245
Speaker 2: to do things tell people you love them.

694
00:41:57,045 --> 00:41:59,965
Speaker 1: I remember saying that portrait at the time, and it

695
00:42:00,005 --> 00:42:05,005
Speaker 1: was just so him. You really cut through in a

696
00:42:05,045 --> 00:42:08,605
Speaker 1: way that I think a lot of artists don't. You

697
00:42:08,685 --> 00:42:14,365
Speaker 1: went on to gain more momentum as this little snowball,

698
00:42:14,485 --> 00:42:19,965
Speaker 1: this Vinnie Snowball, and gathering other people in your wake.

699
00:42:20,925 --> 00:42:24,085
Speaker 2: I always met interesting people my whole life, you know,

700
00:42:24,245 --> 00:42:28,205
Speaker 2: like Aliyah and you know, and I got to experience

701
00:42:28,245 --> 00:42:32,565
Speaker 2: some pretty amazing stuff people don't. But then to feel

702
00:42:33,085 --> 00:42:36,765
Speaker 2: you're this kid that always felt inferior, and then you

703
00:42:36,845 --> 00:42:40,085
Speaker 2: have people like well, when I met Baz, I didn't

704
00:42:40,085 --> 00:42:42,405
Speaker 2: even know who he was. But then you realize and

705
00:42:42,445 --> 00:42:42,765
Speaker 2: you like.

706
00:42:42,925 --> 00:42:43,725
Speaker 1: Nearly had a fight.

707
00:42:45,645 --> 00:42:47,205
Speaker 2: It would have been like a bitch fight. You know,

708
00:42:48,445 --> 00:42:50,605
Speaker 2: obviously I would have taken him down. He didn't know.

709
00:42:51,045 --> 00:42:55,645
Speaker 2: It's pretty funny because we're at Bazi is so flam.

710
00:42:55,845 --> 00:43:00,645
Speaker 2: I love bas It makes me smile to think about him. Funnily.

711
00:43:01,605 --> 00:43:05,285
Speaker 2: One of our amazing directors, Michael Gracie. You know, Michael

712
00:43:05,285 --> 00:43:08,205
Speaker 2: Gracie did Greatest Showman and he just did the Monkey movie,

713
00:43:08,565 --> 00:43:12,325
Speaker 2: you know, very tough. He was a friend. I remember

714
00:43:12,405 --> 00:43:16,005
Speaker 2: him young, running around Sydney trying to make films and

715
00:43:16,005 --> 00:43:18,925
Speaker 2: then he bumps into his mates Joel and Nash Edguton

716
00:43:19,005 --> 00:43:21,845
Speaker 2: with the handicams and they're trying to make films and

717
00:43:21,885 --> 00:43:24,325
Speaker 2: now they're all big stars. So I went to a

718
00:43:24,445 --> 00:43:29,525
Speaker 2: club with Michael Gracie. He says, meet my friend. It

719
00:43:29,645 --> 00:43:31,765
Speaker 2: was his ex boss. He worked for Bads at some point.

720
00:43:32,765 --> 00:43:38,205
Speaker 2: And anyway, this fancy guy, mister fancy talking about telling

721
00:43:38,685 --> 00:43:42,685
Speaker 2: started referencing art history and my painting and yeah, and

722
00:43:42,805 --> 00:43:45,685
Speaker 2: I'm just talking about art and I'm like, you would

723
00:43:45,725 --> 00:43:48,725
Speaker 2: you know, white haired guy. And then so I start,

724
00:43:49,245 --> 00:43:51,885
Speaker 2: you know, telling this guy what I think and then

725
00:43:52,885 --> 00:43:54,805
Speaker 2: starts to get quite intense, and people are just like

726
00:43:54,845 --> 00:43:57,565
Speaker 2: watching them. He kind of stood up and pointed his

727
00:43:57,565 --> 00:43:59,645
Speaker 2: finger or something, and I'm like, man, wrong person. So

728
00:43:59,685 --> 00:44:02,565
Speaker 2: I stood up and I'm like a back to broad

729
00:44:02,605 --> 00:44:06,365
Speaker 2: Meadows mate. You know. We just looked and we kind

730
00:44:06,405 --> 00:44:08,605
Speaker 2: of looked around at people, and then we just started laughing.

731
00:44:08,965 --> 00:44:13,565
Speaker 2: And I think that was, you know, when we became

732
00:44:13,645 --> 00:44:16,645
Speaker 2: good friends, and we just kind of we thought it

733
00:44:16,685 --> 00:44:19,085
Speaker 2: was funny that people thought that we were more serious

734
00:44:19,165 --> 00:44:22,325
Speaker 2: than we were, like nothing was going to happen and yeah,

735
00:44:22,445 --> 00:44:26,045
Speaker 2: and then back to her. So I'm this kid. I'm

736
00:44:26,045 --> 00:44:28,965
Speaker 2: still this kid, and I still am now and I'm thinking, oh,

737
00:44:29,165 --> 00:44:34,165
Speaker 2: you know, this is someone special that actually puts me

738
00:44:34,285 --> 00:44:38,765
Speaker 2: on their level, and it's just, you know, I still

739
00:44:38,805 --> 00:44:44,125
Speaker 2: have the impostor situation going on. Even now. I get

740
00:44:44,125 --> 00:44:47,605
Speaker 2: a text from the Prime Minister. You know, not which

741
00:44:47,765 --> 00:44:51,165
Speaker 2: Julia good one, the one people the.

742
00:44:51,165 --> 00:44:54,685
Speaker 1: One I wrote down? How many times you won the

743
00:44:54,725 --> 00:44:55,725
Speaker 1: People's Choice Award.

744
00:44:56,285 --> 00:44:59,365
Speaker 2: I can't remember now, so I'll I'll tell you.

745
00:44:59,765 --> 00:45:03,445
Speaker 1: So you won it with Heath in twenty two thousand

746
00:45:03,445 --> 00:45:05,005
Speaker 1: and eight, you won in two thousand and nine, you

747
00:45:05,005 --> 00:45:07,645
Speaker 1: won in twenty thirteen, you won in twenty fourteen. One

748
00:45:07,645 --> 00:45:10,525
Speaker 1: of those was bas painting of bads Lot.

749
00:45:10,685 --> 00:45:13,645
Speaker 2: Finally, the one of Baz didn't get in. He thinks

750
00:45:13,645 --> 00:45:15,605
Speaker 2: it's because someone doesn't like him. But won a Doug

751
00:45:15,645 --> 00:45:16,325
Speaker 2: Moran prize.

752
00:45:16,525 --> 00:45:20,565
Speaker 1: That's right, Okay, you did your your eldest.

753
00:45:20,125 --> 00:45:27,885
Speaker 2: Son, Yeah so Luca, yeah as one, Yeah, yes, matte one. Matt,

754
00:45:28,045 --> 00:45:32,405
Speaker 2: my brother Matt, Now he won the the Packing Room Prize.

755
00:45:32,405 --> 00:45:34,325
Speaker 2: And then he calls me up and you go, there's

756
00:45:34,365 --> 00:45:36,125
Speaker 2: this thing they say, he's a cursor when the Packing

757
00:45:36,165 --> 00:45:38,485
Speaker 2: Room Prize you can't win, He's like fucking won the

758
00:45:38,485 --> 00:45:45,285
Speaker 2: Packing Room Prize. Yeah, because he's he's better than that.

759
00:45:46,085 --> 00:45:47,485
Speaker 2: That was the band that was meant to win.

760
00:45:47,845 --> 00:45:52,045
Speaker 1: You mentioned Matt Moran, the Chief, a dear friend of yours,

761
00:45:52,405 --> 00:45:57,885
Speaker 1: and it was through him that, Yes, another incredible thing

762
00:45:58,045 --> 00:45:58,805
Speaker 1: happened to you.

763
00:45:58,925 --> 00:46:01,925
Speaker 2: Yeah. See, this is what I'm talking about, this coincidences

764
00:46:02,005 --> 00:46:05,285
Speaker 2: and the way things happen. And I was I did

765
00:46:05,565 --> 00:46:10,725
Speaker 2: thirty so project on that special night with we came

766
00:46:10,805 --> 00:46:13,725
Speaker 2: up with this project We're going to do in New York,

767
00:46:13,925 --> 00:46:17,125
Speaker 2: thirty portraits thirty days. And he was going to show

768
00:46:17,165 --> 00:46:19,325
Speaker 2: me around New York and we thought, what better way

769
00:46:19,365 --> 00:46:22,205
Speaker 2: to get to know people than to do a portrait

770
00:46:22,245 --> 00:46:24,685
Speaker 2: a day. So I paint your portrait and you suggest

771
00:46:24,765 --> 00:46:25,245
Speaker 2: the next.

772
00:46:25,045 --> 00:46:26,605
Speaker 1: One someone else, and then you go do it.

773
00:46:27,005 --> 00:46:30,365
Speaker 2: And so I did it. It was intense. I needed

774
00:46:30,365 --> 00:46:32,565
Speaker 2: some help after that. I did it in Hong Kong.

775
00:46:32,645 --> 00:46:35,645
Speaker 2: Then I did it in New York. It was awesome,

776
00:46:35,765 --> 00:46:37,805
Speaker 2: and now I said I'd do it in Melbourne, but

777
00:46:38,725 --> 00:46:41,445
Speaker 2: because I already know the city. It was about inspirational

778
00:46:41,925 --> 00:46:44,925
Speaker 2: Australians and you know Matt said, well, you better do

779
00:46:45,005 --> 00:46:47,445
Speaker 2: my portrait, so I did, and then I said, you

780
00:46:47,485 --> 00:46:53,565
Speaker 2: better do my portraits so inspirational important, and Matt suggested Asher,

781
00:46:54,205 --> 00:46:59,005
Speaker 2: and Baz suggested Elizabeth to Becky. So then I got

782
00:46:59,005 --> 00:47:01,805
Speaker 2: two actresses a good look in that campaignt now. But

783
00:47:01,845 --> 00:47:06,165
Speaker 2: I didn't. I had no idea who Asha was, because

784
00:47:06,165 --> 00:47:08,085
Speaker 2: I don't have an idea who anyone is.

785
00:47:08,725 --> 00:47:10,925
Speaker 1: She didn't know who I was, and you weren't an offspring,

786
00:47:11,805 --> 00:47:16,605
Speaker 1: never even heard the word before, and yeah, bigger show

787
00:47:16,645 --> 00:47:17,045
Speaker 1: at the time.

788
00:47:17,965 --> 00:47:21,845
Speaker 2: So Matt insisted that I do the portrait, and I

789
00:47:21,885 --> 00:47:26,045
Speaker 2: wanted to anyway when I saw RuSHA, and Asha's agent

790
00:47:26,165 --> 00:47:30,205
Speaker 2: kind of encouraged her as well. On the day of meeting,

791
00:47:30,485 --> 00:47:33,925
Speaker 2: I was trying to find babysitter for Luca. I was single, dadding,

792
00:47:34,285 --> 00:47:38,965
Speaker 2: and I was running late. I couldn't explain that to her, couldn't.

793
00:47:38,645 --> 00:47:44,685
Speaker 1: Explain uncommon for you, I imagine, and I imagine she doesn't.

794
00:47:44,445 --> 00:47:48,525
Speaker 2: Really run late, Yes, exactly, she doesn't run late, and

795
00:47:48,565 --> 00:47:51,325
Speaker 2: she had she doesn't have a lot of patience for

796
00:47:51,485 --> 00:47:54,885
Speaker 2: those people that run late and anywhere else. Then I

797
00:47:54,925 --> 00:47:57,365
Speaker 2: was trying to clean the studio. I was rolling out

798
00:47:57,365 --> 00:48:00,445
Speaker 2: the wheelie bins looking like a mess, and then I

799
00:48:00,445 --> 00:48:03,645
Speaker 2: see ashually, I think I dropped the bins and that

800
00:48:03,885 --> 00:48:08,205
Speaker 2: was kind of it. We like something. I do have

801
00:48:08,325 --> 00:48:12,365
Speaker 2: magical moments. I'm dreaming them. But it was and she

802
00:48:12,485 --> 00:48:14,245
Speaker 2: ended up in my bed that night. No, she didn't

803
00:48:16,005 --> 00:48:18,085
Speaker 2: for that. She said, if you joke about those things,

804
00:48:18,125 --> 00:48:20,445
Speaker 2: people think that it's serious. It's not true.

805
00:48:20,805 --> 00:48:22,805
Speaker 1: That just happened in life. And we do know that

806
00:48:22,885 --> 00:48:24,165
Speaker 1: you have a son together, so.

807
00:48:24,085 --> 00:48:27,925
Speaker 2: At some point, you do you do you calculate the age. No,

808
00:48:28,125 --> 00:48:31,085
Speaker 2: she wasn't like that at all, but we just I

809
00:48:31,165 --> 00:48:33,685
Speaker 2: worked so hard to do that painting in record time.

810
00:48:33,725 --> 00:48:36,165
Speaker 2: It was like I was a robot because I wanted

811
00:48:36,205 --> 00:48:36,885
Speaker 2: to impress her.

812
00:48:37,045 --> 00:48:38,725
Speaker 1: And you said you'd seen her a photo of it

813
00:48:38,765 --> 00:48:40,405
Speaker 1: when it was finished, So.

814
00:48:40,645 --> 00:48:43,085
Speaker 2: Like you know, three hours later.

815
00:48:44,445 --> 00:48:47,565
Speaker 1: Sending your photos, both of you have seen independently of

816
00:48:47,605 --> 00:48:51,965
Speaker 1: each other that you knew as soon as you saw

817
00:48:52,045 --> 00:48:52,445
Speaker 1: each other.

818
00:48:52,765 --> 00:48:55,085
Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew as soon as she was like touching

819
00:48:55,085 --> 00:48:57,885
Speaker 2: my leg on the table that she liked me.

820
00:49:03,485 --> 00:49:07,885
Speaker 1: Because you can't talk seriously about this because you're all boys.

821
00:49:08,925 --> 00:49:11,565
Speaker 2: But there is a photo of us on that day

822
00:49:11,725 --> 00:49:13,725
Speaker 2: and you can see we look like we've been together

823
00:49:13,765 --> 00:49:15,125
Speaker 2: for a long time, but.

824
00:49:15,165 --> 00:49:19,325
Speaker 1: Your younger brother took who was there, which is amazing.

825
00:49:19,405 --> 00:49:20,965
Speaker 1: You took that photo together.

826
00:49:20,725 --> 00:49:23,765
Speaker 2: I know, like our whole there's even a there's a

827
00:49:24,045 --> 00:49:26,725
Speaker 2: great film because I filmed her as well, and you

828
00:49:26,765 --> 00:49:28,725
Speaker 2: can see it's kind of looking at each other and

829
00:49:28,765 --> 00:49:31,885
Speaker 2: it's really funny to like to pretty amazing. I got

830
00:49:31,925 --> 00:49:36,565
Speaker 2: film over our first meeting and it's she's so cute

831
00:49:36,645 --> 00:49:40,125
Speaker 2: in it as well, Like I can see just you know,

832
00:49:40,365 --> 00:49:44,805
Speaker 2: because I know obviously now what was happening. It's just yeah,

833
00:49:44,925 --> 00:49:45,485
Speaker 2: pretty cool.

834
00:49:45,925 --> 00:49:50,445
Speaker 1: But you came to her with still your secrets.

835
00:49:51,005 --> 00:49:53,805
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's funny just looking at your face.

836
00:49:53,885 --> 00:50:00,805
Speaker 2: I just hear ashes ashes words like no, it's like

837
00:50:00,805 --> 00:50:01,685
Speaker 2: they're protecting her.

838
00:50:03,125 --> 00:50:04,045
Speaker 1: It's pretty funny.

839
00:50:04,725 --> 00:50:06,765
Speaker 2: Well, you both have an ability to say a lot

840
00:50:06,885 --> 00:50:07,565
Speaker 2: just with a look.

841
00:50:07,805 --> 00:50:09,685
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I think listeners.

842
00:50:09,325 --> 00:50:10,165
Speaker 2: I can't see that look.

843
00:50:10,325 --> 00:50:13,965
Speaker 1: Well, you fell in love with someone who Australia was

844
00:50:14,005 --> 00:50:16,525
Speaker 1: already in love with. So I think a lot of

845
00:50:16,605 --> 00:50:22,925
Speaker 1: us feel very protective of Asher because she's always been

846
00:50:22,965 --> 00:50:26,845
Speaker 1: such an extraordinary artist, but also with such dignity and

847
00:50:27,125 --> 00:50:31,525
Speaker 1: beauty and grace, and yet she fell in love with

848
00:50:32,685 --> 00:50:35,165
Speaker 1: someone who had a certain amount of chaos.

849
00:50:35,405 --> 00:50:39,645
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again I can't now I'm thinking at that

850
00:50:39,765 --> 00:50:43,005
Speaker 2: time I already love her too much. I can't let

851
00:50:43,005 --> 00:50:45,485
Speaker 2: her find out because then she's not going to so

852
00:50:46,205 --> 00:50:49,845
Speaker 2: that you couldn't read, Yeah, of the list, you know,

853
00:50:50,885 --> 00:50:54,685
Speaker 2: I can't read. I'm going through my own kind of

854
00:50:55,085 --> 00:50:59,085
Speaker 2: divorce thing that's over, but you know, still lingering. I

855
00:50:59,125 --> 00:51:02,525
Speaker 2: have a child. I don't really know, you know, I

856
00:51:02,565 --> 00:51:05,205
Speaker 2: struggle to organize my own lunch, and I'm looking after

857
00:51:05,245 --> 00:51:09,005
Speaker 2: a kid and trying to have a career and can't

858
00:51:09,045 --> 00:51:12,085
Speaker 2: read right. But I can cook. So I imparted her over

859
00:51:12,165 --> 00:51:12,685
Speaker 2: for food.

860
00:51:12,805 --> 00:51:13,525
Speaker 1: What did you cook it?

861
00:51:14,125 --> 00:51:16,285
Speaker 2: Well? I had chicken and capscum and onion and some

862
00:51:16,325 --> 00:51:21,525
Speaker 2: olives and I remember them anyway. I wander over with yeah,

863
00:51:21,605 --> 00:51:28,285
Speaker 2: pasta and but eventually I do know she took things

864
00:51:28,325 --> 00:51:33,045
Speaker 2: pretty well considering, and she went from being you know,

865
00:51:33,645 --> 00:51:36,605
Speaker 2: quite happy by herself in the country with her horses,

866
00:51:37,005 --> 00:51:39,805
Speaker 2: She's thrown into my chaotic mess, which is stuck.

867
00:51:39,565 --> 00:51:44,525
Speaker 1: With which seems to be sort of strangely complimentary. Your

868
00:51:44,805 --> 00:51:48,845
Speaker 1: love and your devotion to each other is and your

869
00:51:48,845 --> 00:51:50,365
Speaker 1: connection is so.

870
00:51:51,725 --> 00:51:56,045
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't really have another choice. Like we're like everyone,

871
00:51:56,245 --> 00:52:00,805
Speaker 2: we're you know, passionate people, and yeah, she makes mistakes

872
00:52:00,805 --> 00:52:02,445
Speaker 2: and I accept her mistakes all the time.

873
00:52:03,125 --> 00:52:06,485
Speaker 1: You look again that.

874
00:52:10,565 --> 00:52:13,525
Speaker 2: You know we you know, like everyone else, we have

875
00:52:13,565 --> 00:52:17,645
Speaker 2: different opinions, but you know we respect the opinions, and

876
00:52:18,045 --> 00:52:21,845
Speaker 2: you know we can we both were passionate people, but

877
00:52:22,245 --> 00:52:24,925
Speaker 2: there's no choice. We're not going anywhere. We love the

878
00:52:25,245 --> 00:52:29,005
Speaker 2: love each other, and I think, you know, challenging each

879
00:52:29,045 --> 00:52:31,725
Speaker 2: other is part of our relationship, but in a good way,

880
00:52:32,125 --> 00:52:34,005
Speaker 2: and we've done it so often that it's never a

881
00:52:34,045 --> 00:52:36,285
Speaker 2: big deal, Like we kind of smart, have a smile

882
00:52:36,325 --> 00:52:37,805
Speaker 2: on our face while we do it.

883
00:52:37,925 --> 00:52:41,845
Speaker 1: And creatively, both of you seem to ignorege each other.

884
00:52:42,765 --> 00:52:46,005
Speaker 1: So you just really went from strength to strengths, as

885
00:52:46,045 --> 00:52:46,405
Speaker 1: has she.

886
00:52:47,325 --> 00:52:53,805
Speaker 2: Sometimes I've pracass lines with her and I'm, yeah, why

887
00:52:53,885 --> 00:52:56,925
Speaker 2: you're laughing so much? Because I can't read them. But

888
00:52:57,325 --> 00:53:02,045
Speaker 2: you know, she tells mem and I somehow dialogue in conversation.

889
00:53:02,245 --> 00:53:05,805
Speaker 2: I can remember improvising, but I can remember the story.

890
00:53:06,325 --> 00:53:08,485
Speaker 2: The story I can remember, so then we can do lines.

891
00:53:08,925 --> 00:53:11,525
Speaker 2: But you know, we do some fun stuff like that.

892
00:53:11,645 --> 00:53:15,085
Speaker 2: If I'm doing a portrait, I always ask her opinion.

893
00:53:15,525 --> 00:53:19,685
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily agree, but she's she'll give me the

894
00:53:19,805 --> 00:53:24,525
Speaker 2: true love opinion of what she thinks. Like most people say,

895
00:53:24,605 --> 00:53:26,325
Speaker 2: well what do you think? I think the same thing,

896
00:53:26,685 --> 00:53:34,125
Speaker 2: and she's gives me the opinion that I need to hear.

897
00:53:34,765 --> 00:53:40,045
Speaker 1: All right. So though you were so as one with Asher,

898
00:53:40,645 --> 00:53:44,605
Speaker 1: your wife, the mother of your sons, or a mother

899
00:53:44,645 --> 00:53:49,765
Speaker 1: of your sons, you still had inside you the great

900
00:53:49,925 --> 00:53:52,925
Speaker 1: unspoken secret and the shame of the abuse that you

901
00:53:53,045 --> 00:54:00,005
Speaker 1: had endured as a child. At what point did it

902
00:54:00,085 --> 00:54:05,725
Speaker 1: become too much to contain?

903
00:54:14,165 --> 00:54:22,045
Speaker 2: Oh, mister emotional. Uh, it was something. I was talking

904
00:54:22,085 --> 00:54:25,725
Speaker 2: to a friend yesterday and who had just read the book,

905
00:54:26,365 --> 00:54:28,325
Speaker 2: and he said, you know, you could have talked to me,

906
00:54:28,605 --> 00:54:35,765
Speaker 2: like we talk about everything. It was almost like he

907
00:54:35,805 --> 00:54:38,325
Speaker 2: was offended, but he wasn't. He's very nice, Like he

908
00:54:38,525 --> 00:54:41,365
Speaker 2: just thought, oh, why you know you could have spoken

909
00:54:41,445 --> 00:54:44,285
Speaker 2: to me about this. I don't speak to anyone at

910
00:54:44,325 --> 00:54:46,125
Speaker 2: all at all.

911
00:54:46,285 --> 00:54:50,885
Speaker 1: Ever, No, And but Asha must have known. There was

912
00:54:50,925 --> 00:54:52,045
Speaker 1: always something.

913
00:54:53,165 --> 00:54:56,405
Speaker 2: Pretty fucking good out lying when it comes to shame,

914
00:54:57,085 --> 00:54:59,565
Speaker 2: not generally, you know, she can pick pick that stuff

915
00:54:59,565 --> 00:55:06,485
Speaker 2: a mile away. It's you know, finally I write it

916
00:55:06,525 --> 00:55:09,885
Speaker 2: down for everyone to read, and I couldn't tell anyone

917
00:55:10,085 --> 00:55:15,205
Speaker 2: at all. And you know, it's the only thing about

918
00:55:15,245 --> 00:55:18,845
Speaker 2: abuse that and I can't even you know, I can't

919
00:55:18,845 --> 00:55:27,965
Speaker 2: even talk about it like in detail. But it can

920
00:55:28,045 --> 00:55:31,165
Speaker 2: be you know, it wasn't just one moment, but it

921
00:55:31,205 --> 00:55:35,005
Speaker 2: can be one moment in someone's life for thirty seconds,

922
00:55:35,445 --> 00:55:38,285
Speaker 2: and it could go on for years. It could just

923
00:55:38,325 --> 00:55:40,805
Speaker 2: be thirty seconds, though, and for the rest of their life.

924
00:55:40,845 --> 00:55:46,485
Speaker 2: They are stuck with a reaction to everything that you know,

925
00:55:46,965 --> 00:55:51,645
Speaker 2: happens in their daily life in every way. And you know,

926
00:55:52,165 --> 00:55:54,005
Speaker 2: maybe not thirty seconds, but you know what I'm saying,

927
00:55:54,125 --> 00:55:56,565
Speaker 2: it's one moment in someone's life.

928
00:55:56,605 --> 00:56:00,565
Speaker 1: The impacts is so significant. Yeah, they just got robbed

929
00:56:00,805 --> 00:56:03,405
Speaker 1: that there's before and then this after.

930
00:56:03,605 --> 00:56:09,285
Speaker 2: Exactly, they just got robbed of everything and you can't

931
00:56:09,405 --> 00:56:11,885
Speaker 2: make it go away, and you don't tell anyone, and

932
00:56:11,965 --> 00:56:17,045
Speaker 2: it just gets worse. So then every you know, I'm

933
00:56:17,085 --> 00:56:23,405
Speaker 2: thinking that I deserve you know, I deserve this, or

934
00:56:23,725 --> 00:56:28,165
Speaker 2: you know, churches and religion don't have people either, you know.

935
00:56:28,885 --> 00:56:31,245
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know, but you just feel like

936
00:56:33,405 --> 00:56:36,965
Speaker 2: you feel disgusting, and you feel disgusted in yourself, You

937
00:56:37,005 --> 00:56:39,565
Speaker 2: feel ashamed, you feel like you can't tell anyone. Why

938
00:56:39,645 --> 00:56:42,405
Speaker 2: can't I tell anyone? Because maybe I deserved it, or

939
00:56:42,445 --> 00:56:45,205
Speaker 2: maybe this is I asked for something.

940
00:56:44,885 --> 00:56:48,045
Speaker 1: Or maybe this person won't love me if they know

941
00:56:48,245 --> 00:56:49,525
Speaker 1: this but not just.

942
00:56:49,965 --> 00:56:53,365
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely so, then they're going to think no one

943
00:56:53,405 --> 00:56:56,405
Speaker 2: wants damaged goods and my damage goods. So I'll keep

944
00:56:56,445 --> 00:56:59,485
Speaker 2: it to myself, just like the reading and writing, Like

945
00:56:59,565 --> 00:57:01,845
Speaker 2: if I don't tell people that don't know, and they're

946
00:57:01,885 --> 00:57:04,445
Speaker 2: just going to not judge me, you know, if I

947
00:57:04,485 --> 00:57:07,405
Speaker 2: start saying, oh, and it's like the book, you know,

948
00:57:07,485 --> 00:57:11,165
Speaker 2: like I don't want to feel like some sorry case,

949
00:57:11,445 --> 00:57:14,845
Speaker 2: you know, like im or I don't feel like I

950
00:57:14,885 --> 00:57:17,685
Speaker 2: don't know people went through a lot more shit than

951
00:57:17,725 --> 00:57:22,085
Speaker 2: I did. You know, it doesn't matter if you what

952
00:57:22,165 --> 00:57:24,805
Speaker 2: background you're from. You can be from a privileged background.

953
00:57:24,805 --> 00:57:26,645
Speaker 2: You can be in a slum in India, you can

954
00:57:26,685 --> 00:57:30,485
Speaker 2: be whatever it is. And stuff like this you know

955
00:57:30,685 --> 00:57:34,325
Speaker 2: happens to Mark, could happen to anyone and marks you

956
00:57:34,445 --> 00:57:38,685
Speaker 2: and such a you know, why am I Do I

957
00:57:38,685 --> 00:57:42,365
Speaker 2: have to think about that on the birth of my child? Yes?

958
00:57:42,645 --> 00:57:43,285
Speaker 2: Buck that up?

959
00:57:43,485 --> 00:57:47,005
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes, because your boys must when they

960
00:57:47,045 --> 00:57:48,605
Speaker 1: were at the age that you were.

961
00:57:49,445 --> 00:57:53,765
Speaker 2: Or my kid goes through a sleepover m hm and

962
00:57:53,845 --> 00:58:01,605
Speaker 2: I can't sleep, or you know, it's you're getting married

963
00:58:02,085 --> 00:58:04,285
Speaker 2: and you think about you lose your virginity you kiss

964
00:58:04,285 --> 00:58:06,885
Speaker 2: someone from the first time. You know, it's not just

965
00:58:06,925 --> 00:58:11,365
Speaker 2: that stuffid it can be anything. You meet someone and

966
00:58:11,445 --> 00:58:15,005
Speaker 2: you see something and you're suspicious and you might they

967
00:58:15,125 --> 00:58:20,485
Speaker 2: might not deserve your suspicion and you have to think.

968
00:58:20,605 --> 00:58:22,485
Speaker 2: You have to think like that.

969
00:58:22,485 --> 00:58:24,765
Speaker 1: That's changed how you move through the world.

970
00:58:25,485 --> 00:58:34,525
Speaker 2: I had a lot, Oh had a lot of anger.

971
00:58:36,645 --> 00:58:40,805
Speaker 1: M h Asha said she did too when she found out.

972
00:58:42,125 --> 00:58:42,845
Speaker 2: She still does.

973
00:58:44,245 --> 00:58:47,005
Speaker 1: How was the moment when you or was it a

974
00:58:47,045 --> 00:58:51,925
Speaker 1: moment or was it a gradual when you shed that

975
00:58:52,125 --> 00:58:56,205
Speaker 1: most private part of.

976
00:58:56,125 --> 00:59:02,925
Speaker 2: You with her? I think it just gave us, you know,

977
00:59:02,965 --> 00:59:06,885
Speaker 2: and it allowed usher also to you know, it's like

978
00:59:07,445 --> 00:59:09,885
Speaker 2: i'll share something, you share something she shared. You know,

979
00:59:11,485 --> 00:59:14,325
Speaker 2: she's quite good at that, and she'll I don't know

980
00:59:14,365 --> 00:59:16,645
Speaker 2: if she's quite good at that actually, but she said

981
00:59:16,925 --> 00:59:20,885
Speaker 2: shared vulnerabilities with me too. Actually, she's probably not good

982
00:59:20,885 --> 00:59:23,005
Speaker 2: at that. That's why when she does it means something.

983
00:59:23,045 --> 00:59:25,325
Speaker 1: But maybe that's what you two are good at together.

984
00:59:26,205 --> 00:59:29,925
Speaker 2: And it also it just gave her maybe a bit

985
00:59:29,965 --> 00:59:35,205
Speaker 2: more perspective on my reactions generally to things. And it's

986
00:59:35,245 --> 00:59:38,325
Speaker 2: also again, there's a lot in the book that I

987
00:59:38,365 --> 00:59:41,765
Speaker 2: hope people can connect with. It makes me feel more comfortable,

988
00:59:41,765 --> 00:59:45,805
Speaker 2: but it's one of the things that you know, I

989
00:59:45,845 --> 00:59:50,165
Speaker 2: know someone else is going to feel and you know

990
00:59:50,205 --> 00:59:54,045
Speaker 2: they might. Actually someone did read the book and they

991
00:59:54,165 --> 00:59:57,565
Speaker 2: said that there was some stuff that they never looked

992
00:59:57,565 --> 01:00:01,725
Speaker 2: at in themselves and helped them in a big, big way.

993
01:00:01,925 --> 01:00:06,805
Speaker 2: And I'm like, then that makes the book worthwhile, just

994
01:00:06,925 --> 01:00:07,645
Speaker 2: that alone.

995
01:00:08,165 --> 01:00:12,045
Speaker 1: Would you like a portrait of you from your wife,

996
01:00:12,165 --> 01:00:19,125
Speaker 1: Asha Keady? Would you like that? Vin Do you like that.

997
01:00:20,685 --> 01:00:24,445
Speaker 2: Cheeky little on the table? You know? Asha, I've had

998
01:00:24,525 --> 01:00:27,205
Speaker 2: radio stations call me and ask me if I can

999
01:00:27,205 --> 01:00:28,125
Speaker 2: do stuff to you, and I.

1000
01:00:28,085 --> 01:00:36,285
Speaker 1: Said no, So Vincent. Despite the significant challenges Vinnie has

1001
01:00:36,405 --> 01:00:40,165
Speaker 1: experienced and strives to make peace with, I think all

1002
01:00:40,165 --> 01:00:44,885
Speaker 1: the time about the capacity he has to love, to inspire,

1003
01:00:45,525 --> 01:00:50,365
Speaker 1: to engage, to ignite positivity in anyone who crosses his path.

1004
01:00:52,245 --> 01:00:56,325
Speaker 1: What matters most to him is connection, deep connection with me,

1005
01:00:57,245 --> 01:01:02,205
Speaker 1: with his sons, but also with anyone that he invests in.

1006
01:01:02,205 --> 01:01:05,445
Speaker 1: In our early years together, this need for authentic connection

1007
01:01:05,685 --> 01:01:09,725
Speaker 1: proves to be a conundrum of sorts, because there was

1008
01:01:09,765 --> 01:01:14,445
Speaker 1: this fierce self protection in place too, that I wasn't

1009
01:01:14,645 --> 01:01:20,325
Speaker 1: entirely able to understand. Life together is exhilarating, though there

1010
01:01:20,365 --> 01:01:22,965
Speaker 1: have been times I have felt like I'm balancing on

1011
01:01:23,045 --> 01:01:26,565
Speaker 1: the edge of a cliff with him, desperate to earn

1012
01:01:26,605 --> 01:01:31,245
Speaker 1: his trust. I think several years into our relationship, when

1013
01:01:31,245 --> 01:01:33,765
Speaker 1: he was able to share his true state with me,

1014
01:01:34,845 --> 01:01:37,965
Speaker 1: I was really able to appreciate the strength and resilience

1015
01:01:38,005 --> 01:01:42,805
Speaker 1: he has. It's still complex, and we both need that.

1016
01:01:43,165 --> 01:01:48,805
Speaker 1: Though an extraordinary honesty has developed between us. We've spent

1017
01:01:48,885 --> 01:01:54,365
Speaker 1: our entire relationship peeling back the layers, exposing our vulnerabilities,

1018
01:01:55,085 --> 01:01:59,165
Speaker 1: both of us with the shared purpose of creating a healthy, fulfilling,

1019
01:01:59,605 --> 01:02:05,165
Speaker 1: emotional life for ourselves and especially our children. Of the

1020
01:02:05,205 --> 01:02:08,925
Speaker 1: many things I love about this man, and I knew

1021
01:02:08,925 --> 01:02:12,885
Speaker 1: he was my person the day we meet. I respect

1022
01:02:12,925 --> 01:02:15,525
Speaker 1: him so much for this courage.

1023
01:02:21,125 --> 01:02:24,245
Speaker 2: Told me I didn't want to be emotional, and she's like, like,

1024
01:02:24,525 --> 01:02:25,685
Speaker 2: you see what I write to her.

1025
01:02:26,805 --> 01:02:30,765
Speaker 1: I think she loves you, And really, so many people

1026
01:02:30,805 --> 01:02:33,965
Speaker 1: in the world love you, and you've shared your You've

1027
01:02:34,005 --> 01:02:39,565
Speaker 1: shared your gift with the world. Really.

1028
01:02:40,205 --> 01:02:43,805
Speaker 2: There was an article in the Daily Mail two days

1029
01:02:43,845 --> 01:02:46,645
Speaker 2: ago telling Asha how lucky she is to have me

1030
01:02:46,685 --> 01:02:55,325
Speaker 2: because of my abs, you know what, I'm very I'm

1031
01:02:55,365 --> 01:02:59,325
Speaker 2: just so humbled by it. Like you know, I feel

1032
01:03:00,125 --> 01:03:01,965
Speaker 2: there's a lot of people that struggle when they have

1033
01:03:02,045 --> 01:03:04,005
Speaker 2: ship and they don't get to be where I am,

1034
01:03:04,045 --> 01:03:08,285
Speaker 2: and I have someone like you know, having you know,

1035
01:03:08,405 --> 01:03:14,325
Speaker 2: like one of the most special people in every way,

1036
01:03:14,405 --> 01:03:15,565
Speaker 2: and my kids.

1037
01:03:15,245 --> 01:03:19,645
Speaker 1: And you know, I think it was I think it

1038
01:03:19,725 --> 01:03:28,525
Speaker 1: was kim a dad who said, when talent and passion

1039
01:03:29,405 --> 01:03:36,085
Speaker 1: come together, then kind of everything happens. And you've allowed

1040
01:03:36,125 --> 01:03:40,085
Speaker 1: that to happen. And the truths that you've shared are

1041
01:03:40,165 --> 01:03:43,885
Speaker 1: kind of universal truths, deeply personal to you, of course

1042
01:03:43,925 --> 01:03:48,165
Speaker 1: in private, but there's something universal about them. And I

1043
01:03:48,285 --> 01:03:50,285
Speaker 1: thank you for joining us.

1044
01:03:50,165 --> 01:03:52,325
Speaker 2: On no filter. Thank you.

1045
01:03:57,845 --> 01:04:00,765
Speaker 1: When I was talking to Vincent, it was impossible for

1046
01:04:00,845 --> 01:04:04,645
Speaker 1: me not to see him through the prism of his

1047
01:04:04,925 --> 01:04:11,045
Speaker 1: marriage to Asher and the power of the extraordinary differences

1048
01:04:11,085 --> 01:04:14,685
Speaker 1: that their relationship encompasses, and how they both make it work,

1049
01:04:14,805 --> 01:04:16,805
Speaker 1: and how they both refer to each other as their

1050
01:04:16,885 --> 01:04:23,325
Speaker 1: person both being artists, formidable artists within their own right,

1051
01:04:24,245 --> 01:04:28,765
Speaker 1: but Vincent having battled like proper demons and continuing to

1052
01:04:28,845 --> 01:04:33,125
Speaker 1: do so. And God, I love people who share their vulnerabilities.

1053
01:04:34,565 --> 01:04:38,285
Speaker 1: It's amazing how often we're introduced to someone at the

1054
01:04:38,365 --> 01:04:41,765
Speaker 1: height of their success, but we don't have any idea

1055
01:04:42,045 --> 01:04:44,605
Speaker 1: what the road looked like that led them to where

1056
01:04:44,605 --> 01:04:48,525
Speaker 1: they are now. This conversation, of course, only scratched the

1057
01:04:48,565 --> 01:04:54,245
Speaker 1: surface of Vincent's tumultuous and fascinating life, and that's why

1058
01:04:54,485 --> 01:04:58,085
Speaker 1: he has written a book. It's called Unveiled, and we've

1059
01:04:58,125 --> 01:05:01,405
Speaker 1: put all the details in the show notes. We've also

1060
01:05:01,445 --> 01:05:04,165
Speaker 1: shared some links for mental health support if the conversation

1061
01:05:04,325 --> 01:05:08,445
Speaker 1: has stood up any hard emotions for you. The executive

1062
01:05:08,485 --> 01:05:12,685
Speaker 1: producer of No Filter is Nama Brown, the senior producer

1063
01:05:12,885 --> 01:05:16,365
Speaker 1: is Bree Player. Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown,

1064
01:05:16,845 --> 01:05:20,485
Speaker 1: and I'm your host, Kate lane Brook. Thanks for listening,

1065
01:05:20,645 --> 01:05:21,765
Speaker 1: and we'll keep them coming.