1 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast. 2 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 2: Muma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: waters that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome 4 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 2: to But Are You Happy? The podcast that asks the 5 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 2: questions you've always wanted to know from the people who 6 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 2: appear to have it all. And Gowery Rice is an 7 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 2: actor you definitely know. She's been in Spider Man and 8 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 2: Mayor of Eastdown and recently starred in Mean Girls. But 9 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 2: how on earth do you go from being a teenager 10 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 2: in Melbourne one minute to filming a movie with Ryan 11 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 2: Gosling in Hollywood the next? And crucially does it make 12 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 2: you happy? I really wanted to invite Angwerie and her 13 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 2: mum Kate onto this podcast because I was fascinated by 14 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 2: both ang Gowerie's experience of achieving enormous success at a 15 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 2: very young age and also how a mum navigated their 16 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 2: child's career. What do you say yes too? How do 17 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 2: you protect them? How do you stop them, for want 18 00:01:17,759 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 2: of a better phrase, from turning into a dickhead? How 19 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 2: do you make sure they're able to be happy when 20 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 2: fame as a young person seems to be a recipe 21 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 2: for the opposite. Here's my chat with An Gowery and 22 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 2: Gary Rice. At just twenty three, you have a truly 23 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,839 Speaker 2: or inspiring film and television career. You're known for playing 24 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,279 Speaker 2: roles like Holly Marsh in The Nice Guys with Ryan 25 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,639 Speaker 2: Gosling and Russell Crowe, Betty Brandt in three Spider Man 26 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 2: movies alongside Tom Holland and Vendeya, and Katie Heron in 27 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 2: the musical film of Mean Girls alongside Renee Rap and 28 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 2: Tina Fay. On television, you've starred in an episode of 29 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 2: Black Mirror with Miley Cyrus and Start alongside Kate Winslet 30 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,919 Speaker 2: in mayor of Eastown. You have a podcast called The 31 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 2: Community Library, where you talk about books and your love 32 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 2: of them, and last year you pup your first young 33 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 2: adult novel alongside your mum Kate, called Stuck Up and Stupid. 34 00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 2: From the outside, you are an Australian conquering Hollywood, and 35 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 2: you seem capable of achieving anything you set your mind to. 36 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 2: But we often open this podcast by asking, behind that veneer, 37 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 2: what is your life actually like right now? 38 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 3: My life right now is hanging out with friends and 39 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 3: family and doing dance class, going bouldering, and doing French class. 40 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 4: That's my life right now. 41 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 2: And you're in Melbourne. 42 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 4: Yes, I'm in Melbourne right now. 43 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 2: Near family and near your mum, Kate. I wanted to 44 00:02:57,920 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 2: start by talking to you, Kate, because obviously Angwie's career 45 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 2: started when she was so young, and I'm really interested 46 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 2: in being a parent to a child who who has 47 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 2: huge ambitions and achieves enormous success at a really young age. 48 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 2: So before acting, was Angary always a happy kid? 49 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: Yes? Absolutely, and Gary she was the star baby. She 50 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: was the little baby who everybody you know, would pass 51 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: around like a football, my dad would say, or just 52 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: passing the baby around. But she loved it, and everybody 53 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: loved Angary. She was a very I mean everyone still 54 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: does obviously, but she was always a very sociable and 55 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: engaging baby. But I should clarify from you said earlier 56 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: parenting a child with big ambitions. Angari didn't have big ambition, 57 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: and I would say that she probably still doesn't. 58 00:03:55,680 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 2: That's so interesting. So when Angary started acting, and obviously 59 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 2: the family is in that world with writing and directing 60 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 2: in theater and that sort of thing, when she started acting, 61 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 2: how did you manage what jobs she wanted to do 62 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 2: and what you were comfortable for her to do. Was 63 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 2: there any anxiety about her entering the industry at a 64 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 2: young age. 65 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: Yes, there was a lot of anxiety about it because 66 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: I trained as an actor. I was a professional actor 67 00:04:30,280 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: for some time. I was still doing work as an 68 00:04:34,280 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: actor when Angary was little. So we were approached by 69 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: an agent to say, you know, your girls are great. 70 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: You know I'll put them in ads, well you can 71 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: earn some money. And I was like, no, I've sat 72 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: in casting agents offices. I know how awful it is. 73 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: I don't want to be ironing their dresses and then 74 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: turning up somewhere and have someone saying no, we don't 75 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: want you. I don't want to put them through that. 76 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: But my husband, Jeremy, he said, oh no, it'll be fine. 77 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: And the girls were like, oh yeah whatever. They were 78 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 1: that young. So they went along and Jeremy said he 79 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: would iron the dresses. I'm pretty sure he did at 80 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 1: least once. 81 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 4: Definitely didn't. 82 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: I didn't mind any dresses. But as it turned out, 83 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: the girls loved it to start with, particularly Angwery, and 84 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: it just kind of went on from there. But I 85 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: was very, very mindful of protecting them from all of 86 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 1: the dreadful stuff I'd been through, and also as children, 87 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: I didn't want them to do anything that they would 88 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: ever regret or have cause to approach me for later. 89 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: Like I definitely no food adds, nothing fast food. You know, 90 00:05:38,280 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: if it was a script that I didn't think was 91 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: any good, or if it was something that was a 92 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: horror or nasty. There was a fairly strong sense of 93 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: only doing things that were going to be enjoyable and positive. 94 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: And then there was sort of a moment and I 95 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 2: don't know if it felt like a moment to you 96 00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 2: or a slow progression, but when and Gary got an 97 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 2: American agent and then she is in The Nice Guys 98 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 2: starring Ryan Gosling Russell Crowe, huge film, big star power. 99 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 2: How did you go about weighing up that decision and 100 00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 2: did it feel like a moment where you were making 101 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 2: a choice between the Australian acting scene and Hollywood, where 102 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 2: things can be very, very different. 103 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 3: It didn't feel like a choice between one or the other. 104 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 4: Because when I. 105 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 3: Was auditioning for that movie, we were rehearsing for a 106 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 3: fringe show in Melbourne. So we were doing this tiny 107 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 3: fringe show that my dad was co directing that my 108 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 3: mum had written that we had gotten friends to be 109 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 3: in and then I had to leave for like four 110 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 3: days to fly to la to do this audition. We 111 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 3: found out while we were there, Me and Kate went together. 112 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 3: We found out while we were there that I'd gotten 113 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 3: the job. 114 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 4: But then we flew. 115 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 3: Home and then you know, I had missed like a 116 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 3: week of rehearsals and I needed to catch up and 117 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 3: we still did this play. So for me, it was 118 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 3: I don't remember thinking, oh my god, this is going 119 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 3: to like change. 120 00:07:08,840 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 4: My life if I do this. It was sort of like, 121 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 4: in the. 122 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 3: Meantime, I'm just going to go home and do this 123 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 3: low budget fringe show that I also wanted to do. 124 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 2: Kate, were you worried about the tropes about child stars 125 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 2: in Hollywood? 126 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: Yes, yes I was, although again I think my experience 127 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: as an actor really helped protect Angery from that. And yes, 128 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: our journey in America as kind of a gang because 129 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: you know, in Australia we were dropping Angary off saying 130 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: I'll see you at the end of the day bye. 131 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: In America you have to remain within sight and sound 132 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: of your child at all times. So this was a 133 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: new world for me, and meeting other young people and 134 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: their parents, you know, just not being surprised at how 135 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: difficult it is for young Americans to navigate, because I 136 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: shouldn't say Americans generally, but there are a lot of 137 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: parents of young actors who don't necessarily get the cyclical 138 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: nature of it, and that you can be number one 139 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: on the call sheet for one project and number twenty 140 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: on the call sheep for the next one and not 141 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: even get the next job and that shouldn't affect who 142 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: you are. 143 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 2: I think that's something that from the outside seems to 144 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 2: have had a huge impact on and Gary's career and 145 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 2: decisions and groundedness. Is the fact that she's got a 146 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 2: family who knew this industry and knew this industry themselves 147 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 2: in a grounded way from probably working in Australia as 148 00:08:41,079 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 2: opposed to the flashiness and the fickleness of Hollywood. Do 149 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 2: you think, I imagine you do that Angary has stayed 150 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 2: incredibly grounded and avoided the trappings that often come with 151 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 2: fame and success. And why do you think that is? 152 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: I think because she's really smart. She's very smart. You 153 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: know what I think too, Like we as a family 154 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: made a decision to go and live in Germany for 155 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: a year when the girls were ten and seven, and 156 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: that experience of having us as a family, having to 157 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: navigate living in a different country with a different language 158 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: and making our own way there, we kind of became 159 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: quite a tight unit. And I believe that's how we've 160 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: got through all our challenges. You know, we're a unit, 161 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: and we know that we're always there to support each other. 162 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 2: I suppose, yeah, it's sort of a team against a 163 00:09:40,560 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 2: common challenge. 164 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. 165 00:09:42,560 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 2: Has it been a conscious decision not to move to la. 166 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 3: It was a conscious decision for me, and I feel 167 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 3: fortunate that the decision came from me, you know that 168 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 3: it was it was always my choice, and I said no, 169 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,479 Speaker 3: I want to finish school with all my friends in Australia. 170 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 4: I don't want to move. 171 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 3: And I think it sort of ties into this, like 172 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 3: feeling like a team with your family and feeling grounded 173 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 3: in that way that on set, I knew that the 174 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 3: only person who was there unequivocally, one hundred percent on 175 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 3: my side was my parent. And that's not to say 176 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 3: that I wasn't protected or taken care of on set, 177 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 3: but also everyone there also had another job is so 178 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 3: knowing that this is the one person you have to 179 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 3: talk to if something is wrong. I learned that really 180 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 3: quickly that I can't afford to lose this person who 181 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 3: was one hundred. 182 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 4: Percent on my side all the time. 183 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 3: And I think I just felt that I loved school. 184 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 3: I really valued school, I loved my friends. And I 185 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 3: didn't see an adolescence or a teenagehood for myself in 186 00:10:51,680 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 3: the US. I just didn't see it for whatever reason. 187 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 3: I just thought, how would that work. Would I just 188 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 3: like leave school and not go to school. Would I 189 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 3: be homeschooled? Would I go to school in the US? 190 00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 3: I don't know, And I just I didn't see that 191 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 3: for myself. 192 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: It did come up, like we didn't think about it 193 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: as a family and our member specifically meeting with a friend, 194 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 1: someone who was a scriptwriter friend, and I remember sitting 195 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: down with him and one of the things that really 196 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: stuck out from that conversation was him saying, you need 197 00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars a year just to start and 198 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: him saying public transporters for poor people. 199 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 2: Different lifestyle to Australie. 200 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, so those were two sentences that made me. 201 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 2: Think maybe not for us. 202 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a very expensive and big leap to make, 203 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 3: I think, especially when it's not just one person going, 204 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 3: it's an entire family. And we'd made that leap a 205 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 3: couple of years ago going to Germany and experiencing that. 206 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 3: And also it's sort of a luxury when you can 207 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 3: live at home and live far away from LA and 208 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 3: still get jobs and be able to travel. I mean, 209 00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 3: that was such a luxury. It was like, well, if 210 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 3: I can do that, why would I give that up? 211 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 2: What was it like for both of you for those 212 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 2: years where you're still at school and you are going 213 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 2: overseas and filming some of the biggest movies that are 214 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:21,599 Speaker 2: then coming out in Australia. What's that like going overseas, 215 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 2: coming back going to school? Does it feel normal? Do 216 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 2: people treat you the same? Are there any weird dynamics 217 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 2: with the people that you know? 218 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 3: It wasn't so much. I would come back. I mean, 219 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 3: that was the funny thing. I would go away and 220 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 3: spend months overseas filming something that all of my classmates 221 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 3: would see an entire year later, and school moves so quickly, 222 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 3: so I'd come back and they wouldn't know or care, 223 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 3: so It wasn't like people were treating me differently because 224 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 3: I'd done something special or interesting. It was just what 225 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 3: happens in high school to anyone who you might go 226 00:12:57,560 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 3: away for a month on a trip and then they 227 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 3: come back and all the dynamics have changed because high 228 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 3: school moves so fast. But I do remember, Actually I wonder, Kate, 229 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 3: what your memory of this is. Getting the job in 230 00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 3: Spider Man, and that actually did affect my school day 231 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 3: because because Kate had to drive to school during recess 232 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 3: and hand me the phone and I had to take 233 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 3: the call at recess. 234 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 2: Together, You've written a young adult novel, Stuck Up in Stupid, 235 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 2: and you're speaking at Sydney Ryder's Festival on a panel 236 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 2: about the Austin Formula about Jane Austen's lasting influences. Kate 237 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 2: and Gowery first went to you and said you should 238 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 2: write this. What made you suggest co writing it? Oh, 239 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 2: splitting the workload half a job. 240 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 1: Well, the idea of co writing had come up before. 241 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: And well, you know, as I said before Anger, she's 242 00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: really smart. She had done a writing course already at 243 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: that point. She's very thoughtful, and I'd written bits of 244 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 1: prose before. But most theater and screen, and I thought 245 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: having somebody to help would be great, and it was. 246 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:16,559 Speaker 1: It was awesome. 247 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 2: What was the process, like, did you argue, how do 248 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 2: you actually go about writing a novel with two people? 249 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 3: Thankfully, I think we're both people would plan a lot, 250 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 3: and I really liked that Kate took the lead in 251 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 3: that sense of like, this is how I plan when 252 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 3: I write, and I think we should do the same thing. 253 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 4: And it was perfect. 254 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 3: I mean, we already had an amazing book to work from, 255 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 3: so it was about doing a chapter breakdown of Prime 256 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 3: and Prejudice, then doing a chapter breakdown of our version, 257 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 3: and then from there it became its own thing. And 258 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 3: then we wrote it over one summer, Oh my gosh. 259 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: So we had notebooks and pencils and we would take turns. 260 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: Every day. One of us would write a chapter and 261 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: read the chapter that was written by the other person 262 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: the day before, and add if we wanted to, no 263 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: crossing out, only adding it was my rule. And then 264 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: once we got to the end, we had a complete 265 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: first draft, which is awesome. And then there was a 266 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: lot of refining that went on after that, but that 267 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: was how we started, and we had a very strong 268 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: sense of what we wanted it to be, and we 269 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: had a very strong common understanding of the voice that 270 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: was really based on the opening sentence, which did end 271 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: up changing, but we had this sort of Jane austen 272 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: esque but contemporary voice that we wanted to use, and 273 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: so that's how we did it. 274 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 2: And why does young adult fiction mean so much to you? Kate? 275 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 2: You've done a lot of writing. Why do you think 276 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 2: that audience feels so vivid and important to you? 277 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: Yes, this is something that's come for me a lot 278 00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: because I've written theater for young people, and I wondered 279 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: if it was because I never grew up. I also, 280 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: it really sticks in my mind how passionate I was 281 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: about reading and literature. And you know, I remember crying 282 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: because my mother would read a book and be dismissive 283 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: of it that I loved, Like I was that intensely involved. 284 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: I think because you do, and you never read or 285 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: discover a book as an adult the way you do 286 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: as a young person. 287 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 2: I think, hmmm, and do you think that is something 288 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 2: that I mean for me when I look at that 289 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 2: phase in life as you're an emerging adult and there's 290 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 2: a lot going on and you're working out who you 291 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 2: are and there are a lot of challenges. Reading for 292 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 2: me was something that gave me a lot of joy 293 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 2: and mindfulness and happiness. Is that something that you see 294 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 2: as giving a bit of a gift to young people 295 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 2: by writing a story like this? 296 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: I hope so definitely. Yeah, that's a really good way 297 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: of thinking about it. And I still feel that joy 298 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: of reading and going into another world and being absorbed 299 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,999 Speaker 1: in another world, in a writer's world, and what a 300 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: gift that is, and it does make me happy. Yeah. 301 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,999 Speaker 3: I think also that for me it felt like a 302 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 3: gift for us as well to write it, because I 303 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 3: remember I was sort of going through a difficult time 304 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 3: while we were writing it, and I remember Kate telling 305 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 3: me like, how would our protagonist, who's called Lily, who's 306 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 3: the version of Elizabeth Bennett and we all want to 307 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 3: be Elizabeth Bennett, Like, how would she deal with this? 308 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 3: You know, put into her these qualities that you want 309 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 3: to find in yourself. And so for me, it was 310 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 3: also just like I learned so much from that character, 311 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 3: and I feel that we wrote someone who we all 312 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 3: want to be. I mean, everyone wants to be Lizzie Bennett. 313 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 3: And I still continue to learn from her and all 314 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 3: Janeustin characters really coming up. 315 00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 2: I chat to Ane Gowerie about whether she believes fame 316 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 2: changes people. We also talk about the idea of surveillance 317 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 2: and how it feels to be watched by the world 318 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 2: and how that's impacted her happiness. And we chat about 319 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 2: missing out on them as an actor when you're such 320 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 2: a young age from being very close to it and 321 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 2: experiencing it yourself. Do you think fame changes people? 322 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 4: I think it does. 323 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 3: I don't want it to sound like it's a completely 324 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 3: negative thing, like, oh, people change to get famous, but 325 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 3: your life changes, so of course it's going to change 326 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 3: how you move through the world, just like any lifestyle change. 327 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 3: If you get a dog, your life's going to change, 328 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 3: and you as a person, you're going to change. You're 329 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 3: going to go for walks more. 330 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 2: So. 331 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 3: I think it's the same thing with being famous. I 332 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 3: think you do change. 333 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think the biggest changes have been 334 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 2: for you? And it's hard because you became famous as 335 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 2: you were also in adolescent so it's hard to see 336 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 2: which is which. But what do you think are the 337 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 2: changes that you can identify being down to having this 338 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 2: huge profile. 339 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 3: I think an obvious one is financial privilege, and I 340 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 3: mean it comes in all sorts of jobs and all 341 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 3: sorts of levels of jobs. It's also for a lot 342 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 3: of people, it's really hard to make money as an actor, 343 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 3: and I'm in a fortunate position where it is my 344 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 3: career and I can make money from it and that 345 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 3: can be my sole income, And of course that changes 346 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 3: the way you live your life, or the way. 347 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 4: You can live your life. 348 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 3: I think another change is, yeah, this feeling of maybe 349 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 3: surveillance is too strong of a word, but feeling observed 350 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 3: and watched is something that comes along with it. 351 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 4: In a way that. 352 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 3: Can feel quite unsettling sometimes. Obviously, as an actor, you're 353 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 3: watched by the camera in your job and all the 354 00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 3: people on set, or if you're performing on stage, you're 355 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 3: watched by you know, two hundred fi few people in 356 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 3: the audience. But outside of that, when you're not performing 357 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 3: and you're just going about your life, sometimes I still 358 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 3: feel watched because I can tell that someone has recognized 359 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 3: me and is like whispering to their friend over there. 360 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 4: So that changes a little bit. 361 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 3: But I'm incredibly grateful that I get to do this 362 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 3: as my career and my job and that. 363 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 4: I just love it so much. 364 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 3: And so this is something like it changed my high 365 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 3: school life a lot because I had to leave and 366 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 3: I would miss things. I would miss birthdays and I 367 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 3: would miss parties. But for me, I would always ask 368 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 3: myself the question, well, would I rather not take this 369 00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 3: job and instead go to this party? And that was 370 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 3: never the answer for me. The answer is no, I 371 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 3: would always want to do this. So no matter what 372 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 3: difficulties come along with it, if you love it, it's 373 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 3: going to be worth it. 374 00:20:58,320 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 4: I think. 375 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:05,360 Speaker 2: You have worked alongside some of the biggest names and 376 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 2: some people who have amazing reputations. What have you learned 377 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 2: about happiness from working from a young age alongside people 378 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 2: who have achieved the pinnacle of success in Hollywood, people 379 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 2: like Ryan Gosling, Kate Winslet. 380 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 3: I think what I've learned from watching people around me 381 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 3: who have worked in the industry a long time or 382 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 3: who've been really successful in their industry, and not just actors, 383 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 3: but also first ads and cameramen and directors. I've learnt 384 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:45,959 Speaker 3: that loving your job is kind of key because so 385 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 3: much is out of your control. That if you're doing 386 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 3: your job for any reason other than loving it, you 387 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 3: probably won't get that thing that you want. 388 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 4: Because who knows. 389 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:02,719 Speaker 3: The best thing I learned ever was from a first 390 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 3: AD And I said, like, what's the best thing that 391 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 3: you've learned as a first AD And she said, if 392 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 3: there is no solution, there is no problem. And by 393 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 3: that she meant if you can't fix the problem, then 394 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 3: it's not a problem. It's just the way it is, 395 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 3: and you have to keep going. And I sort of 396 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 3: love that. So maybe that's one way that I strive 397 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 3: to sort of find happiness in my job, even if 398 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 3: it's difficult. Sometimes it's like, well, if I can't change 399 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 3: this thing, then that's just the way it is, and 400 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 3: I have to find a way. 401 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 4: To move forward the way things are. 402 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 2: Is there anyone who's really surprised you in terms of 403 00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 2: how they appear to the public versus who they are 404 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 2: when you actually meet them. 405 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, Tina Fait, Yeah, actually yeah. 406 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 3: She is surprisingly soft spoken, and I guess I didn't 407 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,360 Speaker 3: expect that from just the characters she plays. She's so, 408 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 3: you know, fast talking and like and she is fast 409 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 3: talking in person as well, but she's very like measured. 410 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 2: You've mentioned that, Tina Fey, and I think you said 411 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 2: the same thing about Sophia Coppola, that they're both very 412 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 2: I don't know if gentle's the right word, but they 413 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 2: don't raise their voice. They're really kind on set, and 414 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 2: you've talked about the fact that that's how you feel 415 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,959 Speaker 2: safe and that's how you're able to give your best performance. 416 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 2: Have you had experiences where people have been the opposite. 417 00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 2: I can imagine, just Americans, that they can be brash 418 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,120 Speaker 2: and the stakes are high, and they can be arrogant 419 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 2: and maybe cruel to get you to do something. Have 420 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 2: you had the experience of dealing. 421 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 3: With that, thankfully, No, not personally. I've definitely witnessed, and 422 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 3: Kate has witnessed too, probably a bit more than me 423 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 3: because I was sheltered from a lot of it as 424 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 3: a kid. But I've definitely witnessed people lose it. 425 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: I was just going to say. I also felt that 426 00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: was a big difference on US sets as opposed to 427 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 1: Austraight sets. I feel on an Australian set, to lose 428 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: your temper is considered a bit of a it's something 429 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: to be embarrassed about, whereas I got a very strong 430 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: sense on some American sets that losing your temper was 431 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: expected and a way that you would command respect or 432 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: considered that this was a way that you would demonstrate 433 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: your creativity or power or something. So as an Australian 434 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: on a set witnessing that kind of thing, I would 435 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: also respond very differently to Americans. It would be like, 436 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 1: this is really uncool? 437 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 2: Did that scare you, Kate? Knowing that, like when Angary 438 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 2: goes to do a film, now, like when you did 439 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 2: Mean Girls, Kate, did you go with Angary? No? Does 440 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,719 Speaker 2: it scare you? Knowing that there are those types of people? 441 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 2: And do you worry that it's not going to be 442 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,679 Speaker 2: a happy experience for Angary that she is going to 443 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 2: go into a project and it's not going to be 444 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 2: as joyous as previous ones. 445 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: Oh? Look, with every project that Angary does, I would worry, 446 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: you know, because I want it to be beautiful and 447 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: fabulous and an amazing growth experience and incredibly creative, fulfilling, 448 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: Like I want it to be all of those things, 449 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: and there's always going to be something, of course I worry, 450 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: But I also know that Angary's comes from a very 451 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: very strong position and will be able to handle things 452 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: like that. 453 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 2: When you think about Kate you've been able to see 454 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 2: I guess, a very big range of what life looks 455 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 2: like as a creative and you've written and you've acted, 456 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 2: and then you've had a daughter who's had all these opportunities. 457 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,679 Speaker 2: When you think about happiness, what do you think the 458 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 2: relationship is between success and happiness. 459 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: I think success does not always equal happiness. And that's 460 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: right because you mentioned about you know, people who were 461 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: very successful and kind of equated. Therefore, you know, Kate 462 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,479 Speaker 1: Winslet and Mind Gossling must be really happy, and I 463 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: was thinking about that, thinking like I think they are, 464 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: that they do seem quite happy people, but not necessarily 465 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: any happier than mister. 466 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 4: Babbage, you know, yah, yeah, yeah, shop. 467 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: And it's something I do think about a lot, because 468 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: I feel like the myth of success is not one 469 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: that brings happiness necessarily, and that there's a lot to 470 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: be said for failure bringing happiness as well, because it 471 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: takes you to new places, it makes you reflect on 472 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: yourself more deeply, I guess than superficial ideas of what 473 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: success is. 474 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:44,719 Speaker 2: Does that resonate with you and Gary? 475 00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think in the past couple of years it 476 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 3: feels like there's more stakes in my career because when 477 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 3: I was in school, it was like, well, I've got time, 478 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 3: I've got school, i could go to university, I could 479 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 3: do something else with my life. Obviously, I can always 480 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 3: do something else with my life. But my career is 481 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 3: now my income. It's a full time job, it's not 482 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 3: just a hobby as well as school, So it feels 483 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 3: like the stakes are higher, and so it feels like 484 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 3: there's more pressure to succeed in the traditional sense of 485 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 3: the word of getting more jobs and working more consistently. 486 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 3: And during that time, I've sort of really tried to 487 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 3: do other things that I may potentially fail at and 488 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 3: try and be okay with that. Like I'm going bouldering, 489 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 3: which I'm really not good at. I actually went today. 490 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:43,719 Speaker 3: I went this morning and I didn't complete the easiest level, 491 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 3: and I was like, what is going on with me today? 492 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 3: Like usually I can do this? Why can I not 493 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 3: do it today? Why do I not feel like I can? 494 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 3: And I just had to be okay with that, And 495 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 3: I think that's a very good practice to do something that, like, 496 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 3: I know I'm not really good at bouldering, but like 497 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 3: I still want to do it because I like it 498 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 3: and because I think emotionally it's probably be really good 499 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 3: for me to do something that I'm not that good at. 500 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 2: I think that's also as a creative that's a crucial 501 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 2: part of what you do, because anything that you do 502 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 2: initially you are not going to be good at. You 503 00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 2: talk about writing the book the first draft, it's not 504 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 2: going to be perfect, and that is really bloody hard 505 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 2: when you have high standards for yourself. So repeatedly doing 506 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,719 Speaker 2: those things that you are not good at is probably 507 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 2: one of the kind of things you can do to yourself, ironically, 508 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 2: in order to achieve success. So, Kate, did acting bring 509 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 2: new happiness? 510 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: No? Acting made me miserable? Wow? 511 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 2: Why? 512 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: Well, first of all, I recognize that feeling of creativity 513 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: and storytelling which I love, love, love and adore, and 514 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: I kind of got that mixed up with performing and acting, 515 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: and it's not the same thing, or doesn't have to 516 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: be the same thing. It was for me very much 517 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: found up with feelings of self worth in general. So 518 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: I thought, if I perform and people love my performance, 519 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: therefore they love me. So No, it didn't make me 520 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: happy because when I wasn't working, I thought, that's because 521 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: they hate me, and I will never get work because 522 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: I'm not good enough. And then when I did get work, 523 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: I couldn't bear the pressure. I couldn't bear the pressure 524 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: to perform. It took me like fifteen years to work 525 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: out that acting made me miserable because I started writing 526 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: for myself, and then I realized that made me happy. 527 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: And when I gave that writing to other people to do, 528 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: that made me even happier. So the act of writing 529 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: and telling those stories and getting to that creative storytelling 530 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: experience in writing is what makes me happy. I love that. 531 00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 2: And Gary in Hollywood, do you feel the need to 532 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 2: be performatively happy because so many people look at people 533 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 2: like you and think you absolutely it all? And do 534 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 2: you also worry that if you don't come across that way, 535 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 2: it'll become a story. 536 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 3: I think this happens with women in particular in the industry. 537 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 3: I think there's a fear of being labeled ungrateful. And 538 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 3: we've seen that happen a lot throughout history of many 539 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 3: women who have expressed hardships or difficulties in their job 540 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 3: and then being labeled is ungrateful. And I think for 541 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,479 Speaker 3: me that there is that fear of like, well, if 542 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 3: I'm honest about how something affected me or that something 543 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 3: wasn't a good experience, then I will be labeled as ungrateful. 544 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 3: But I think it's important to sort of find nuance 545 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 3: in that and say, well, as a blanket statement, obviously, 546 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 3: I'm so grateful to do acting as a full time 547 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 3: job and I love it. And at the same time, 548 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 3: like in any workplace, in any industry, you're going to 549 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 3: have difficulties and it's not going to be happy, go 550 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 3: lucky all the time. That being said, I don't think 551 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 3: people always want to hear about that, And I also 552 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 3: understand that from an audience perspective, you want to know 553 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 3: about the fun things that happened on set. 554 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 4: You want to know about the good. 555 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 3: Experiences, and that makes sense too, So I think there's 556 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 3: a balance there. Like a lot of the time, I 557 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 3: am just genuinely happy to talk about the work that 558 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 3: I do and I love that, and yeah, just knowing that, 559 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 3: like I'm grateful all the time, and also knowing that 560 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 3: when I watch other people express difficulties they've had or 561 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 3: situations where they haven't been happy, I always know that, Like, obviously, 562 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 3: obviously we're so grateful to do what we do because 563 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 3: it's rare to be able to earn a living as 564 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 3: a full time actor. 565 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 2: But I think you're right that there's something very human 566 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 2: about not feeling happy hundred percent of the time, no 567 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 2: matter who you are and what your circumstances are. Up next, 568 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 2: we talk about what Angwie has learned about happiness from 569 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 2: people in the acting industry and from her mum's experience 570 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 2: in the acting industry, and we talk about her role 571 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 2: in Mean Girls, which was a dream, dream job and 572 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 2: resulted in some backlash. Has there been a time in 573 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 2: your life where the world told you'd be happy and 574 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 2: you weren't like you should have by all measures been 575 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 2: feeling absolute joy and pride and feeling amazing and the 576 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 2: reality was very different. 577 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 3: I'm trying to think, Mommy, do you remember after when 578 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 3: we were in can and it was after the big 579 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 3: premiere for the Nice Guys on the can red carpet, 580 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 3: all these photographers, like it was crazy, and then we 581 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 3: came home and we were like, so that's it. 582 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: It was just that was weird, Like I didn't understand 583 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: until that moment what a premiere really is. I felt 584 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: sad about it, and I also felt a bit sad 585 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: about everybody there, like everyone and everyone in Cahn, because 586 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: basically people get massively dressed up, they spend hours and 587 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: they've got everything happening, and then they will literally parade 588 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: themselves on a carpet and then go home like they 589 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: will do that, but no one's really living what they 590 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: think it is. And also the other weird thing about 591 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: it is that everyone on the inside of the barriers 592 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: is not paying anything or getting paid quite a lot, 593 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: or having you know, people throw here have it for 594 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: such a gown, like having people literally throw stuff at them. 595 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 1: Everyone on the other side of the barriers who's there 596 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,479 Speaker 1: in their shorts and their stunnies and they're spending a 597 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: lot of money and coming to sort of sample or 598 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 1: experience a bit of this amazing thing that isn't what 599 00:34:17,759 --> 00:34:20,399 Speaker 1: they think it is either. So yeah, I found that 600 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: the whole calm thing was very weird. 601 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,479 Speaker 3: It was strange too because like we had been there 602 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 3: a couple of years earlier with this tiny Australian film 603 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,479 Speaker 3: and we had stayed in the old part of town, 604 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 3: and we'd gone to museums on the weekends. 605 00:34:34,839 --> 00:34:36,079 Speaker 4: And we had just like. 606 00:34:36,439 --> 00:34:39,439 Speaker 3: You know, eaten bread and cheese and gone to the 607 00:34:39,479 --> 00:34:42,199 Speaker 3: local supermarket to like buy our own food, like we'd 608 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 3: had that experience, and then to go back and have 609 00:34:45,279 --> 00:34:49,919 Speaker 3: this massive just to have our experience completely transformed from 610 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,519 Speaker 3: last time. It wasn't that I was like sad, but 611 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,479 Speaker 3: it just felt like this huge thing. And then we 612 00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,599 Speaker 3: got home and we were like what was it though? 613 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,559 Speaker 3: Like what did we do? I just stood there. I 614 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,919 Speaker 3: didn't really do anything. And I think the other thing 615 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 3: is that I was fifteen. So we went to the 616 00:35:09,759 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 3: afterpart I think for like half an hour maybe, but 617 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,839 Speaker 3: it was full of grown ups, you know, drinking and 618 00:35:15,919 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 3: having a good time and also networking, and I was 619 00:35:19,839 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 3: sort of like, well, I'm a bit tired, I can't drink, 620 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 3: and there's party is for adults. It's not really for me. 621 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 4: Yeah. 622 00:35:30,279 --> 00:35:32,119 Speaker 3: I think that's the other thing is going to all 623 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 3: of these spaces as someone who is a young teenager. 624 00:35:37,319 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 3: The spaces aren't really built for you to have fun 625 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 3: in that way, so it just feels a little strange. 626 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,639 Speaker 2: I think that's quite profound that you've got those two 627 00:35:47,839 --> 00:35:52,639 Speaker 2: experiences to contrast the far more grounded experience of going 628 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,879 Speaker 2: for an Australian film and there's not the huge budget, 629 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 2: and then going and getting the full Hollywood treatment, and 630 00:35:59,839 --> 00:36:03,880 Speaker 2: that actually feeling a little bit empty because you're almost 631 00:36:03,959 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 2: not a human, you're just a mannequin and there's photos 632 00:36:06,759 --> 00:36:09,839 Speaker 2: and all of that. How do you find red carpet 633 00:36:09,879 --> 00:36:14,839 Speaker 2: experience answers generally? I mean, I can imagine, even for 634 00:36:14,879 --> 00:36:20,479 Speaker 2: something like Mean Girls, where it is absolutely peak Hollywood 635 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 2: and the hair and the makeup and the fixation on 636 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 2: beauty and that sort of thing, does that ever get 637 00:36:27,279 --> 00:36:27,559 Speaker 2: to you. 638 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 3: I mean, it's funny you mentioned the Mean Girl's carpet 639 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 3: because that was such chaos because it was in New York, 640 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,079 Speaker 3: and in New York they have rules about like you 641 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,519 Speaker 3: can't block off the street, like you can only put 642 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,839 Speaker 3: your carpet on like a certain square meterage of the sidewalk, 643 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 3: And so you've got hundreds of people crammed into this 644 00:36:46,759 --> 00:36:48,879 Speaker 3: teeny tiny space and it was January. 645 00:36:48,959 --> 00:36:49,959 Speaker 4: It was freezing cold. 646 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,039 Speaker 3: So everyone's there and the little skimpy dresses and other 647 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 3: people are holding their coats. My sister was holding my jacket. 648 00:36:56,319 --> 00:36:59,639 Speaker 3: So it was just like this crazy experience. It's kind 649 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 3: of funny, like getting so incredibly dressed up for a 650 00:37:03,279 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 3: couple of hours, it's really fun. 651 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 4: I love it. 652 00:37:06,759 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 3: I especially loved the Mean Girls pressed to it because 653 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 3: I I had a really clear vision of what I 654 00:37:11,839 --> 00:37:13,999 Speaker 3: wanted to wear, what I wanted to feel comfortable in. 655 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,079 Speaker 4: But there's also all the reality behind it. 656 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 3: That people don't see or that people don't like talking 657 00:37:20,319 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 3: about as much. Like that night, my eyes were watering 658 00:37:24,359 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 3: so much from the press of having so much makeup. 659 00:37:27,319 --> 00:37:30,359 Speaker 3: I got a rash around my eyes. So like the 660 00:37:30,399 --> 00:37:34,039 Speaker 3: whole movie, I was sitting there like wiping away tears. 661 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 4: But it is really fun. 662 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,039 Speaker 3: I think sometimes especially if I'm wearing something that I 663 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 3: don't feel one hundred percent comfortable, it can feel a 664 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,479 Speaker 3: bit hollow. But for me and girls, I had a 665 00:37:46,759 --> 00:37:47,839 Speaker 3: really nice time. 666 00:37:48,839 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 2: With Mean Girls. I can't imagine the excitement of getting 667 00:37:53,399 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 2: an email from Tina Fey saying I want you to 668 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,799 Speaker 2: be in this, Like it's just it must just be 669 00:38:00,399 --> 00:38:02,959 Speaker 2: so exciting as somebody who had grown up watching Main 670 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 2: Girls like all of us. When the movie came out, 671 00:38:07,799 --> 00:38:11,999 Speaker 2: there was some cruel commentary and there was some cool 672 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:17,759 Speaker 2: commentary on TikTok. How does it feel to do something 673 00:38:17,839 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 2: that is so exciting and that you seem to have 674 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,239 Speaker 2: got so much joy out of and have people be 675 00:38:26,359 --> 00:38:26,959 Speaker 2: mean about it. 676 00:38:28,839 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 3: Well, what's really funny is the movie is called Mean Girl, and. 677 00:38:34,439 --> 00:38:36,279 Speaker 2: There were a lot of mean girls. 678 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,959 Speaker 3: Look, not everyone is going to like what you do, 679 00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 3: especially when you are making something that it's so special 680 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,359 Speaker 3: and meaningful to so many people. Not everyone's going to 681 00:38:50,399 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 3: be happy. That's just the way life is. It Just 682 00:38:53,799 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 3: it doesn't matter what you do. So there's sort of 683 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,319 Speaker 3: an inevitability in that, and I kind of knew going in. 684 00:38:59,399 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 3: I was like, well, some people might not like this, 685 00:39:04,479 --> 00:39:07,359 Speaker 3: but I'm going to have a good time, and I'm 686 00:39:07,359 --> 00:39:09,559 Speaker 3: going to make new friends, and I'm going to be 687 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,319 Speaker 3: in a musical, which I've always wanted to do, And 688 00:39:13,399 --> 00:39:16,359 Speaker 3: so I'm going to take that experience and hold on 689 00:39:16,439 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 3: to it as something that was ultimately really positive for me, 690 00:39:21,319 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 3: and I don't want other people to ruin that positivity. 691 00:39:25,359 --> 00:39:27,319 Speaker 4: That I got from that experience. 692 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,359 Speaker 3: So it's sort of about, like, people who are mean 693 00:39:31,359 --> 00:39:36,439 Speaker 3: about things will only really have power over you if 694 00:39:36,479 --> 00:39:38,559 Speaker 3: you give them the power to make you feel bad 695 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,479 Speaker 3: about yourself, and I don't want to do that. You know, 696 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,959 Speaker 3: people are entitled to say whatever they want to say, 697 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,719 Speaker 3: and it's up to me to not give that the 698 00:39:47,759 --> 00:39:51,799 Speaker 3: power to really affect me. So I think that's obviously 699 00:39:51,799 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 3: easier said than done. But that's the sort of mindset 700 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,159 Speaker 3: that I tried to go into it with. 701 00:39:57,479 --> 00:39:57,839 Speaker 4: I don't know. 702 00:39:57,879 --> 00:40:00,079 Speaker 1: I feel like it's easier with film in a way 703 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,879 Speaker 1: because with film, it's done, it's out there, it's out 704 00:40:02,919 --> 00:40:05,399 Speaker 1: in the world. You can it is much easy once 705 00:40:05,439 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: it's happening. I think with theater it's harder because you 706 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:09,759 Speaker 1: can read a review and then. 707 00:40:09,919 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 2: You've got to do it again. 708 00:40:12,479 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 1: That makes it a lot harder, which yes, sort of 709 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 1: just don't look at the criticism basically when it's finished. 710 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 1: Once it's finished, there's nothing you can do about it anyway. 711 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, And is that something you're good at? And especially 712 00:40:24,959 --> 00:40:29,839 Speaker 2: I guess with social media being such a pervasive form 713 00:40:29,879 --> 00:40:32,999 Speaker 2: of media that it's everywhere and it can infiltrate you 714 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 2: in ways you don't say coming. You might not be 715 00:40:35,879 --> 00:40:37,839 Speaker 2: seeking out a review and then you see something that's 716 00:40:37,839 --> 00:40:40,680 Speaker 2: a little bit linked to something you've done. Are you 717 00:40:41,359 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 2: good at having boundaries around social media? 718 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:45,399 Speaker 4: Sometimes? I think? 719 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:51,039 Speaker 3: I think what was really beneficial about meing goals is 720 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 3: that I did the press too. I had a great 721 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 3: time in New York with my sister with all my friends, like, 722 00:40:57,319 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 3: it was fantastic. And then I came home and I 723 00:41:00,359 --> 00:41:03,719 Speaker 3: was on beach holiday for three weeks and there's no 724 00:41:03,839 --> 00:41:06,319 Speaker 3: internet where we stay at the beach, so it was 725 00:41:06,359 --> 00:41:08,319 Speaker 3: sort of like, well, I I'm just not going to 726 00:41:08,359 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 3: be on my phone because there's no internet. So I 727 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:13,599 Speaker 3: sort of just did it and then left and then 728 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,679 Speaker 3: that was that. So that was a really nice sort 729 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,199 Speaker 3: of regrounding I think after, you know, talking about getting 730 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 3: dressed up for things, like after a whole week of 731 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 3: getting dressed up for things, to go to the beach 732 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,440 Speaker 3: and just let my rash heal itself with the salt 733 00:41:28,479 --> 00:41:32,759 Speaker 3: water and not wear shoes for three weeks, Like that's 734 00:41:32,799 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 3: all really nice stuff to do, I think as well. 735 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,879 Speaker 3: And in terms of setting boundaries with social media, it 736 00:41:38,919 --> 00:41:41,999 Speaker 3: can be really hard. But there are also parts of 737 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 3: the Internet that I love that I just yeah, I 738 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:50,279 Speaker 3: love watching people making vegan cooking videos and knitting videos 739 00:41:50,319 --> 00:41:53,519 Speaker 3: and talking about sustainable fashion. There's good and bad, and 740 00:41:54,399 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 3: that's the case of everything. 741 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:56,479 Speaker 4: I think. 742 00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,439 Speaker 3: It just depends on how you use it. So I 743 00:41:58,479 --> 00:42:01,119 Speaker 3: have a time limit. I try and only spend half 744 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,759 Speaker 3: an hour a day, but sometimes, oh my god, sometimes 745 00:42:03,799 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 3: it's forty minutes. 746 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,919 Speaker 2: Okay, now I know why you've achieved so much and 747 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,399 Speaker 2: I've achieved so little. That's incredible. Half an hour a 748 00:42:11,439 --> 00:42:12,879 Speaker 2: day should be ol Motte. 749 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:14,840 Speaker 4: Well, it doesn't always happen. 750 00:42:14,919 --> 00:42:21,159 Speaker 3: I mean there, yeah, but I think sometimes, like last week, 751 00:42:21,399 --> 00:42:24,320 Speaker 3: I said, Okay, on Friday, I'm not going to spend 752 00:42:24,319 --> 00:42:27,039 Speaker 3: any time on social media, and I didn't and that 753 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 3: was good. 754 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,160 Speaker 4: But you know, then sometimes I end up scrolling until 755 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,239 Speaker 4: two am. It just depends. 756 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:38,919 Speaker 2: And Gowrie, you are smart and passionate and wildly successful. 757 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,919 Speaker 2: You appear to have struck a really rare balance between 758 00:42:43,759 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 2: achieving a lot as a young person while also remaining 759 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:52,480 Speaker 2: grounded and authentic. Would you say that you're happy. 760 00:42:53,439 --> 00:42:55,999 Speaker 3: I think happiness is day to day and I think 761 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 3: on a day to day level, I'm really happy. 762 00:42:58,959 --> 00:43:01,319 Speaker 4: And I also. 763 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,920 Speaker 3: Just want to like acknowledge that I think happiness comes 764 00:43:04,919 --> 00:43:10,519 Speaker 3: from your community, and the ability to achieve things do 765 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:12,879 Speaker 3: things also comes from my community. 766 00:43:12,959 --> 00:43:14,319 Speaker 4: Like there's no way that I. 767 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,559 Speaker 3: Could have I guess people say it all the time 768 00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,719 Speaker 3: because it's so true, but like I couldn't have done 769 00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:24,040 Speaker 3: anything as a kid had it not been for the 770 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:29,279 Speaker 3: support and like very real work from my parents in 771 00:43:29,399 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 3: terms of accompanying me places and taking me places, and 772 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,919 Speaker 3: not just parenting me, but parenting me in an environment 773 00:43:36,959 --> 00:43:39,359 Speaker 3: that's quite strange and unusual for a child to be in. 774 00:43:40,399 --> 00:43:43,960 Speaker 4: So yes, I would say, I'm happy. Are you happy, Kate? 775 00:43:44,839 --> 00:43:48,959 Speaker 1: Yes? Of course, there are so many things in the 776 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:53,879 Speaker 1: world that are stressful and concerning and anxiety inducing and depressing. 777 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,799 Speaker 1: But yes, as you very wisely say, and Gary, it's 778 00:43:56,839 --> 00:44:00,519 Speaker 1: a day to day thing, and I feel incredibly privileged 779 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:04,399 Speaker 1: with my relationships, the people I have around me, and 780 00:44:04,479 --> 00:44:07,279 Speaker 1: that I have the opportunity to go and sit at 781 00:44:07,279 --> 00:44:09,559 Speaker 1: my desk every day and put my head in my 782 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,519 Speaker 1: hands and go, I'm a terrible writer. I don't know. 783 00:44:11,919 --> 00:44:17,679 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm glad to hear you have that experience, even 784 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:23,319 Speaker 2: though it's so obviously not true, that's very relatable. I 785 00:44:23,399 --> 00:44:26,959 Speaker 2: was so incredibly curious to interview a Gowery because I 786 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:30,359 Speaker 2: really didn't know what to expect. I knew she was 787 00:44:30,399 --> 00:44:34,039 Speaker 2: really smart and incredibly talented, but there's a warmth and 788 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,080 Speaker 2: a gentleness and a kindness that comes through when you 789 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:41,160 Speaker 2: speak to both her and her mum. Somehow she's avoided 790 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,359 Speaker 2: the trappings of being a young person in Hollywood. There's 791 00:44:44,399 --> 00:44:48,520 Speaker 2: no narcissism, there's no obsession with money or fame or power. 792 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,479 Speaker 2: And I think a huge part of that is to 793 00:44:51,479 --> 00:44:53,839 Speaker 2: do with the fact that, like all of us, and 794 00:44:53,959 --> 00:44:57,799 Speaker 2: Gowery isn't just and Gowery. She's a daughter and a 795 00:44:57,839 --> 00:45:01,759 Speaker 2: sister and a friend. In episode zero of this season, 796 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,959 Speaker 2: I spoke to doctor Tim Sharp, who said all the 797 00:45:04,959 --> 00:45:08,639 Speaker 2: happiness research can be summed up in three words. Other 798 00:45:08,959 --> 00:45:12,759 Speaker 2: people matter. And that's what I got from this conversation. 799 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,759 Speaker 2: Happiness is about other people, no matter who you are. 800 00:45:17,359 --> 00:45:20,759 Speaker 2: It's about your connections with other people in the real world. 801 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:26,079 Speaker 2: It's not red carpets or achievement or accolades. Her comments 802 00:45:26,279 --> 00:45:30,719 Speaker 2: about toxic positivity were interesting too, because when we see 803 00:45:30,759 --> 00:45:35,199 Speaker 2: a person who has all those shiny things, we don't 804 00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,479 Speaker 2: want to hear about any of the parts that might 805 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,559 Speaker 2: be hard. And that's kind of why I started this podcast. 806 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,639 Speaker 2: And it's a particular phenomenon with women where we want 807 00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 2: them to be grateful and we don't allow for nuance, 808 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,680 Speaker 2: and the point of this show is there is always nuance. 809 00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:57,559 Speaker 2: I really appreciated Kate's honesty about her own experience with 810 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,160 Speaker 2: being an actor and how it didn't make her happy. 811 00:46:00,959 --> 00:46:03,640 Speaker 2: I think it's brave to admit when the things we 812 00:46:03,759 --> 00:46:07,319 Speaker 2: think we want actually aren't making us happy, and then 813 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,359 Speaker 2: to pursue other avenues. But it's quite poetic that her 814 00:46:11,399 --> 00:46:15,360 Speaker 2: own experiences made her so equipped to navigate the acting 815 00:46:15,439 --> 00:46:18,680 Speaker 2: world for her daughter when she was too young to 816 00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,239 Speaker 2: navigate it herself. I also want to join the Angowerie 817 00:46:22,319 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 2: Rice club when it comes to social media use, because 818 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,319 Speaker 2: the extent to which pretty much all of us are 819 00:46:28,399 --> 00:46:31,000 Speaker 2: using it just is not making any of our lives 820 00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:36,839 Speaker 2: more joy filled. Join me next week for a conversation 821 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,439 Speaker 2: with the lead singer of Glass Animals, Dave Bailey. I 822 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,320 Speaker 2: ask him about having the bigger song in the world 823 00:46:43,479 --> 00:46:47,039 Speaker 2: and being catapulted to a new level of fame, and 824 00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,839 Speaker 2: we discuss what it's like to see your life happening 825 00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:54,719 Speaker 2: and feel entirely disconnected from it. We also talk about 826 00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:58,039 Speaker 2: the terrifying moment he almost lost his best friend and 827 00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,200 Speaker 2: bandmate and how that made him reassess what's truly important. 828 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,759 Speaker 2: That's next week on but are you happy? In the meantime, 829 00:47:06,879 --> 00:47:10,120 Speaker 2: If you missed our first guest episode of the season, 830 00:47:10,319 --> 00:47:14,160 Speaker 2: we released it last week. I interviewed comedian Josh Thomas 831 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:18,799 Speaker 2: for a conversation about success, creativity, being diagnosed with autism 832 00:47:18,799 --> 00:47:21,919 Speaker 2: as an adult, and what he learned about happiness from 833 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,440 Speaker 2: being in Hollywood. There's a link in the show notes 834 00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,519 Speaker 2: you can listen to that episode right now. If you 835 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,279 Speaker 2: enjoyed this podcast, please review and subscribe wherever you get 836 00:47:31,319 --> 00:47:35,200 Speaker 2: your podcasts. If you'd like to suggest someone for the podcast, 837 00:47:35,319 --> 00:47:38,319 Speaker 2: you can get in touch with me directly. My Instagram 838 00:47:38,319 --> 00:47:41,839 Speaker 2: handle is Claire dot Stevens with two s's, or you 839 00:47:41,879 --> 00:47:45,520 Speaker 2: can email us here at podcast at mamamea dot com 840 00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,719 Speaker 2: dot au. This episode was produced by Tarlie Blackman, with 841 00:47:49,839 --> 00:47:53,040 Speaker 2: audio production by Scott Stronik. See you next week.