WEBVTT - How To Talk To Absolutely Anyone 0:00:08.234 --> 0:00:10.914 You're listening to Amma mea podcast. 0:00:16.354 --> 0:00:17.753 Hello, and welcome to MO. 0:00:17.874 --> 0:00:19.874 When we are out loud is what women are talking 0:00:19.914 --> 0:00:21.994 about on Friday, the sixth of March. 0:00:22.114 --> 0:00:27.274 I'm Hollywayne Wright, I'm Claire Stephen and I'm oh my god, 0:00:27.554 --> 0:00:28.514 I'm a bit nervous. 0:00:28.874 --> 0:00:30.314 She's back from your holiday. 0:00:30.474 --> 0:00:32.593 We became number one holiday. 0:00:32.754 --> 0:00:33.114 Yeah. 0:00:33.193 --> 0:00:35.674 Yeah, but you know what you were on those shows 0:00:35.714 --> 0:00:37.314 that we became number one for, So I think you 0:00:37.314 --> 0:00:38.314 can claim that crown. 0:00:38.434 --> 0:00:40.513 Thank you so much. Claire. Were you on those show? 0:00:41.114 --> 0:00:45.034 I was here? You were you were? I was like 0:00:45.193 --> 0:00:48.674 in the atmosphere, I remember that. I remember that. Yeah, 0:00:49.114 --> 0:00:50.754 says a lot about me. I'm like, I feel like 0:00:50.793 --> 0:00:52.314 I'm off and around success. 0:00:52.434 --> 0:00:56.314 Oh my god. 0:00:56.594 --> 0:00:58.313 There is one thing that the out louders need to 0:00:58.354 --> 0:01:00.394 know from you, Emily Vernham. You've just been on holiday 0:01:00.434 --> 0:01:01.074 for pretty. 0:01:00.834 --> 0:01:01.354 Much a month. 0:01:01.514 --> 0:01:02.354 Yeah, pretty much. 0:01:02.434 --> 0:01:04.394 How many pairs of nickers did you take? 0:01:04.674 --> 0:01:04.874 Oh? 0:01:05.034 --> 0:01:09.954 Okay, great, great question. I overseas for twenty two days, 0:01:10.314 --> 0:01:12.434 so I took thirty two pairs? 0:01:13.194 --> 0:01:14.594 Did you use all of them? 0:01:14.754 --> 0:01:14.914 No? 0:01:15.114 --> 0:01:17.514 Because I didn't know I had access to a washing machine. 0:01:17.594 --> 0:01:19.554 Yeah, I was gonna say, I bet you had access. 0:01:19.594 --> 0:01:23.074 Yeah, I like, I think I would own thirty two pairs. 0:01:23.114 --> 0:01:25.994 I didn't. I think the day before I ran to 0:01:26.114 --> 0:01:30.274 kmart in a panic, and yeah, having stock anymore, so 0:01:30.394 --> 0:01:30.714 you have. 0:01:30.714 --> 0:01:32.434 To grab, like you know, when you get to the 0:01:32.434 --> 0:01:34.674 real bottom of the barrel with your undies and you're like, 0:01:34.714 --> 0:01:38.034 these have holes. I had a documents appointment recently in 0:01:38.074 --> 0:01:39.434 a very old pair of undies. 0:01:40.074 --> 0:01:43.194 You had to take an extra bag just for your underwear. 0:01:43.314 --> 0:01:44.994 How loud as If you're wondering why the hell were 0:01:44.994 --> 0:01:47.514 talking about this. One of our most famous debates of 0:01:47.594 --> 0:01:50.354 recent times is how many pairs of underpants you pack 0:01:50.434 --> 0:01:51.234 when you're going away? 0:01:51.394 --> 0:01:52.954 Yeah, thirty two is a bit too much, I will 0:01:52.994 --> 0:01:55.794 say that, will I probably could have won away with twenty. 0:01:55.914 --> 0:01:58.594 There's two week strains here because Holly would have packed three. 0:01:58.874 --> 0:02:00.194 Yeah, yeah, I would have done. 0:02:00.234 --> 0:02:02.474 I would have taken like maybe seven and then you 0:02:02.634 --> 0:02:03.754 just rotate and wash. 0:02:03.874 --> 0:02:05.914 Like anyway, we don't need to go back into that. 0:02:06.074 --> 0:02:07.074 Did you have a great time? 0:02:07.194 --> 0:02:09.994 I had the best, best time. I'm happy to be back. 0:02:10.194 --> 0:02:12.554 But oh my god, I love a holiday. We should 0:02:12.554 --> 0:02:13.794 all be on holiday all the time. 0:02:14.394 --> 0:02:16.754 I want a photo dump of your holiday on the 0:02:16.794 --> 0:02:18.154 out Louders Instagram. 0:02:18.234 --> 0:02:18.954 That's a good idea. 0:02:19.274 --> 0:02:22.394 I need it to everyone can see, Yeah, like obviously 0:02:22.394 --> 0:02:22.954 on yours. 0:02:23.114 --> 0:02:25.954 Yeah, but also for the apes I loud us want 0:02:25.994 --> 0:02:27.314 to see what em did in India. 0:02:27.434 --> 0:02:28.634 Ye, and so do I. 0:02:29.154 --> 0:02:33.754 Anyway, welcome back to our Friday show Mate. There's a 0:02:33.754 --> 0:02:35.674 lot of news going on. You won't hear any of 0:02:35.674 --> 0:02:38.354 it here today, so that's good. But here is what 0:02:38.554 --> 0:02:41.514 is on our agenda. I want to tell you about 0:02:41.554 --> 0:02:44.594 the Internet's new favorite literal girl Boss. She is a 0:02:44.634 --> 0:02:48.633 thirteen year old skincare ce plus. 0:02:48.714 --> 0:02:51.594 We used to be terrified of public speaking, but jen 0:02:51.674 --> 0:02:56.554 Z are terrified of something much smaller and a weekly recos. 0:02:56.674 --> 0:03:00.514 They consist of two podcasts and one very wild book. 0:03:00.954 --> 0:03:02.714 But first, Emily Vernon. 0:03:03.154 --> 0:03:06.954 In case you missed it, no one is wearing mascara anymore. 0:03:07.154 --> 0:03:07.954 I won't hear it. 0:03:08.314 --> 0:03:10.834 I won't have this, Okay, I need to rephrase. The 0:03:10.874 --> 0:03:14.953 cool kids aren't wearing muscara anymore. Seen the headlines, there's 0:03:14.994 --> 0:03:18.554 been a trend. It is called ghost lashes, which means 0:03:18.874 --> 0:03:22.434 slashes without mascara. So this started off in We saw 0:03:22.474 --> 0:03:25.554 it first in the Megala last year where Sophia, Richie 0:03:25.554 --> 0:03:28.114 and Lord weren't wearing mascara, and it was a bit scandalous. 0:03:28.314 --> 0:03:31.114 But then recently on the runways that are happening in 0:03:31.154 --> 0:03:33.554 the last fashion season, none of the models are wearing 0:03:33.634 --> 0:03:36.234 muscara either, And you know what, I'm for it. 0:03:36.394 --> 0:03:42.594 No, No, it's discriminatory against blondes. And it's also discriminatory 0:03:42.714 --> 0:03:46.674 against people with no lips, because you can only wear 0:03:47.154 --> 0:03:50.114 no muscara if you've got a statement lip, otherwise you 0:03:50.154 --> 0:03:52.954 look Onwell. 0:03:51.994 --> 0:03:53.994 I wear a statement lip and no mascara. 0:03:54.194 --> 0:03:56.874 Yeah, but I can't because I look like a clown 0:03:56.954 --> 0:03:58.154 because the lips are too things. 0:03:58.234 --> 0:03:58.994 You have to be cool. 0:03:59.074 --> 0:04:01.274 This is the thing about the no mescara kids. Now 0:04:01.274 --> 0:04:02.474 you're on this train right. 0:04:02.594 --> 0:04:04.554 I haven't won mascara at all this year. 0:04:04.674 --> 0:04:05.314 That's amazing. 0:04:05.514 --> 0:04:07.834 The main reason is because I star infection. 0:04:09.394 --> 0:04:11.314 You had it, and so you've had to swear off it. 0:04:11.474 --> 0:04:13.834 I'm scared of it, like I'm deeply scared of it. 0:04:13.874 --> 0:04:16.594 And mascara is messy, it goes everywhere. 0:04:17.034 --> 0:04:19.113 Like I am so wedded to my mascara. It is 0:04:19.234 --> 0:04:21.674 my It's a white tail's nightmare. It's the only thing 0:04:21.714 --> 0:04:23.393 I would take with me, Like I couldn't ever go 0:04:23.433 --> 0:04:25.394 one survivor because I couldn't live with that mascara. It's 0:04:25.433 --> 0:04:27.314 the only thing i'd take on alone in Australia if 0:04:27.313 --> 0:04:29.914 I was on that, I like, mascara is my thing. 0:04:30.234 --> 0:04:33.073 And you're right, Claire, that there is like you know, 0:04:33.154 --> 0:04:35.753 obviously you've got beautiful dark lashes. 0:04:35.513 --> 0:04:39.234 And blessed with very thick dark hair all over my 0:04:39.234 --> 0:04:41.313 body guards. I have to win some of those humehs. 0:04:41.834 --> 0:04:45.834 But and I've got basically white eyelashes. But I've seen 0:04:45.914 --> 0:04:48.513 lots of very fair people with this no mascara trend. 0:04:48.914 --> 0:04:52.154 You're supposed to look like that, right, like that, very then. 0:04:53.633 --> 0:04:56.394 But I also think it's ageist because it makes you 0:04:56.474 --> 0:04:58.513 look younger, no question not wearing mascara. 0:04:58.594 --> 0:05:00.193 They look baby face, these people. 0:05:00.513 --> 0:05:02.673 But when the rest of your face can no longer 0:05:02.674 --> 0:05:05.193 play that game, you just look like an elderly baby. 0:05:05.594 --> 0:05:07.273 So I can't do it. 0:05:07.714 --> 0:05:09.954 Just like the side parts, like the skinny jeans, you 0:05:09.993 --> 0:05:12.993 can take them, take the skinny jeans, but by mascari, 0:05:13.034 --> 0:05:15.593 you will prize it from my cold deadhand them. 0:05:15.953 --> 0:05:20.674 Okay, when was the last time you initiated small talk 0:05:20.794 --> 0:05:24.874 with a stranger in public? I'm finding that there are 0:05:24.914 --> 0:05:30.234 certain things that are massive social lubricants that make it easier. 0:05:30.274 --> 0:05:32.594 I found it a lot easier with a dog when 0:05:32.633 --> 0:05:34.034 I was at the dog park, because you could just 0:05:34.073 --> 0:05:37.834 start conversation about your dog, what breed, et cetera, and. 0:05:38.154 --> 0:05:40.873 Conversation with the owner of the dog with the dog. See, 0:05:40.914 --> 0:05:41.593 that's the thing. 0:05:42.354 --> 0:05:45.193 I find it easier to talk to animals and babies 0:05:45.234 --> 0:05:46.993 for people, so because. 0:05:46.794 --> 0:05:47.673 What are you going to say? 0:05:47.834 --> 0:05:50.914 Yeah, exactly. But sometimes I'd essentially start talking to the 0:05:50.953 --> 0:05:54.194 dog and it evolves into a conversation with the dog's person. 0:05:54.794 --> 0:05:56.834 And I do the same thing at the park. So 0:05:56.873 --> 0:05:59.753 there's a kid, My daughter has run up to the 0:05:59.834 --> 0:06:03.914 kid to yell at them about something or embrace them aggressively, 0:06:04.073 --> 0:06:06.273 and then you kind of have to talk. And I 0:06:06.313 --> 0:06:10.193 find that quite nice social lubricant. But for a long 0:06:10.274 --> 0:06:13.154 time we've acknowledged that one of our biggest fears as 0:06:13.234 --> 0:06:16.674 human beings is public speaking. But now, according to an 0:06:16.714 --> 0:06:21.113 article in The Guardian by viv grosskop jen Z in particular, 0:06:21.234 --> 0:06:24.354 are terrified of speaking to anyone in public. 0:06:24.873 --> 0:06:25.273 Wow. 0:06:25.553 --> 0:06:28.354 In her column The Stranger Secret, How to talk to 0:06:28.393 --> 0:06:31.234 Anyone and why you should, she recalls being at a 0:06:31.313 --> 0:06:35.954 restaurant and chatting to the waitress about her hometown of 0:06:36.034 --> 0:06:39.594 Soul and what life is like there, and when she left, 0:06:39.834 --> 0:06:42.953 her fifteen year old said to her, how do you 0:06:43.073 --> 0:06:46.073 know if you're allowed to have that conversation like that, 0:06:46.154 --> 0:06:49.153 you're allowed to ask about that and that that person 0:06:49.234 --> 0:06:52.034 is happy to talk about it, And Grosskop said, you 0:06:52.073 --> 0:06:54.954 don't always know. It's okay. It's a risk and you 0:06:55.073 --> 0:06:59.433 have to find out. But that risk taking is disappearing. 0:06:59.753 --> 0:07:01.674 When we're on the train, or we're waiting in line 0:07:01.714 --> 0:07:05.274 at the shops, or we're in a waiting room at 0:07:05.274 --> 0:07:08.593 the doctors. We don't want to talk to anyone and 0:07:08.633 --> 0:07:11.394 we don't want them to talk to us. And I do. 0:07:11.474 --> 0:07:12.434 I want to talk to them. 0:07:12.554 --> 0:07:15.794 Really, I love talking to people. I don't know. 0:07:17.194 --> 0:07:18.154 I'm not scared. 0:07:18.754 --> 0:07:22.074 There's lots of reasons why we've kind of evolved into 0:07:22.074 --> 0:07:26.394 this way. One is noise canceling, headphones, social media phones, 0:07:26.794 --> 0:07:30.074 rise of working from home, touch screens in restaurants and 0:07:30.114 --> 0:07:34.393 self checkouts, death of their spaces, and the pandemic. And 0:07:34.474 --> 0:07:38.674 psychologist Esther Perell calls it a global relational recession, and 0:07:38.714 --> 0:07:41.794 she says the point is not depth, the point is practiced. Yes, 0:07:41.834 --> 0:07:46.634 the gentle strengthening of our social muscles. So Grosscott basically says, 0:07:46.674 --> 0:07:49.593 small talk might not profoundly all to your life, but 0:07:49.794 --> 0:07:53.194 its absence will profoundly alter human life as we know. 0:07:53.234 --> 0:07:56.353 It's crucial. Small talk is absolutely crucial. 0:07:56.434 --> 0:07:58.434 Tell me how you do it, Give me a script. 0:07:58.594 --> 0:07:58.914 All right. 0:07:58.994 --> 0:08:01.474 I'm terrible at small talk in some situations, but good 0:08:01.474 --> 0:08:04.074 in others. So I will always talk to people in 0:08:04.074 --> 0:08:05.714 shops and stuff, always. 0:08:05.674 --> 0:08:08.114 Like the person who runs the shit, yeh. 0:08:08.074 --> 0:08:09.393 The person making your coffee. 0:08:09.674 --> 0:08:12.434 But do you say, though I talk about the weather, 0:08:12.514 --> 0:08:14.674 you start with the boring shit, and before you know it, 0:08:14.674 --> 0:08:16.634 you'll be in there going So, how was that party 0:08:16.674 --> 0:08:17.234 on the weekend? 0:08:17.474 --> 0:08:17.634 Oh? 0:08:17.674 --> 0:08:18.594 Did you go to that gear? 0:08:18.594 --> 0:08:21.634 And you've built a tiny little bridge between you that 0:08:21.754 --> 0:08:25.794 isn't meaningful really, but it just makes the world better 0:08:25.794 --> 0:08:26.554 there a bit nicer. 0:08:26.674 --> 0:08:26.874 Right. 0:08:26.953 --> 0:08:29.234 So in the town that I live in, in the 0:08:29.274 --> 0:08:31.514 morning you go the baker for the coffee. Everybody's talking. 0:08:31.714 --> 0:08:33.474 No one knows anyone, but they're all just go blah 0:08:33.514 --> 0:08:35.394 blah blah. I'd had a long conversation with a woman 0:08:35.434 --> 0:08:37.274 the other day about teaching my daughter to drive. I've 0:08:37.274 --> 0:08:39.074 never seen herm before I'll never see her again, Like 0:08:39.674 --> 0:08:41.954 they're just all little bridges out. 0:08:41.754 --> 0:08:42.594 Into the world. 0:08:43.394 --> 0:08:45.554 Although she's so right that it's not important and that's 0:08:45.594 --> 0:08:47.154 not the point of it. You shouldn't go around talking 0:08:47.194 --> 0:08:49.554 to people because like, hey, it's important. You should do 0:08:49.594 --> 0:08:52.714 it just to be a human, But it is one 0:08:52.714 --> 0:08:54.434 of the quickest ways to get you out of a bubble. 0:08:54.514 --> 0:08:56.394 Like if you only ever talk to people who you 0:08:56.434 --> 0:08:59.314 know really well, you're much less likely to ever kind 0:08:59.394 --> 0:09:01.474 of understand anyone else's point of view, even in a 0:09:01.514 --> 0:09:03.114 tiny thing. I'm not suggesting you go in and you 0:09:03.154 --> 0:09:08.674 start going so I ran. Yeah, not that, but just 0:09:09.034 --> 0:09:11.634 you know, all those tiny conversations you have with people 0:09:11.634 --> 0:09:14.394 you bump into, like are more likely to show you 0:09:14.434 --> 0:09:16.634 that other people's experiences aren't yours, you know what I mean. 0:09:17.154 --> 0:09:19.874 Yeah, I feel like exactly what you said, Claire. It 0:09:19.994 --> 0:09:22.833 is a generation thing, Like I've noticed my parents are 0:09:22.874 --> 0:09:25.234 really good at small talk and I just kind of 0:09:25.234 --> 0:09:27.314 sit there and like listen in. But I also think 0:09:27.314 --> 0:09:30.314 it's a culture thing. I notice also Americans are really 0:09:30.314 --> 0:09:33.874 good up and I think that's because all of them 0:09:33.914 --> 0:09:35.834 do it. Like if you're sitting on a subway in 0:09:35.874 --> 0:09:38.994 New York, in America, everyone's talking to everyone and they're 0:09:38.994 --> 0:09:41.594 all strangers. However, if you were just sitting a train 0:09:41.914 --> 0:09:45.394 in Australia, a stranger would start to ask you questions. 0:09:45.834 --> 0:09:48.314 You know everyone else is listening in on that conversations 0:09:48.314 --> 0:09:50.114 because it's so rare for it to happen. 0:09:50.154 --> 0:09:51.154 I think it depends. 0:09:51.274 --> 0:09:52.954 I'm not sure that everyone on the subway in New 0:09:52.994 --> 0:09:57.554 York is talking to each other like more Americans. 0:09:57.034 --> 0:09:58.194 But it's not weird if they do. 0:09:58.314 --> 0:10:01.234 Americans have fewer boundaries. What I remember, it was a 0:10:01.274 --> 0:10:03.514 young person traveling in the States and I was an 0:10:03.514 --> 0:10:06.434 English person very much then before I live in Australia. 0:10:07.114 --> 0:10:09.674 It's like they would just ask really personal questions. Now 0:10:09.714 --> 0:10:12.354 I'm not advocating for that. They had no boundary about 0:10:12.394 --> 0:10:15.154 jumping straight in with the whole, like so your situation, 0:10:15.314 --> 0:10:15.954 are you married? 0:10:15.994 --> 0:10:16.834 Do you have children? 0:10:16.914 --> 0:10:19.234 Like they're like Americans are really good at that. I'm 0:10:19.234 --> 0:10:23.634 not advocating for that necessarily. It's just politeness, right, English 0:10:23.714 --> 0:10:27.034 people talking about cultural stereotypes. We're very good at small talk, 0:10:27.074 --> 0:10:29.953 but only in a very like oh how about that rain, Like. 0:10:29.914 --> 0:10:32.274 We're really good at that stuff. You know what I mean. 0:10:32.874 --> 0:10:34.954 I think you're right about generational. I think it's one 0:10:35.034 --> 0:10:37.274 hundred percent true, because do you remember Claire. Even when 0:10:37.314 --> 0:10:40.154 I first started working with you guys, I remember, like 0:10:40.314 --> 0:10:42.994 Claire and Jesse, when they came to work at Mama Mia, 0:10:43.194 --> 0:10:45.154 they would freak out when you ask them how they're 0:10:45.154 --> 0:10:46.794 weekend was in the kitchen. 0:10:47.434 --> 0:10:48.154 What do you want from me? 0:10:48.954 --> 0:10:51.314 I don't want anything. I'm just being polite. 0:10:51.354 --> 0:10:54.914 And I wouldn't do it either, because I was just 0:10:55.834 --> 0:10:58.554 and I think generally I do this in life, and 0:10:59.114 --> 0:11:02.154 I'm only becoming aware of how it comes across. I'm 0:11:02.194 --> 0:11:04.314 just in my own head. So when I turned up 0:11:04.314 --> 0:11:05.874 to work, I'd be thinking, Oh, what am I going 0:11:05.954 --> 0:11:07.554 to pitch? We've got to stand up? What am I 0:11:07.594 --> 0:11:10.354 going to write today? And so I wasn't thinking of 0:11:10.394 --> 0:11:13.474 asking anybody else how they were, And when somebody asked me, 0:11:13.634 --> 0:11:18.034 I was shocked. But I think one thing I thought 0:11:18.034 --> 0:11:21.114 when I read this article was I wonder if one 0:11:21.114 --> 0:11:25.874 of the things contributing to this is our kind of 0:11:25.954 --> 0:11:30.594 cultural conversation about what is offensive and what is not 0:11:30.794 --> 0:11:33.754 right to say to people, and therefore we feel like 0:11:33.794 --> 0:11:37.194 there's less room for mistakes. And I think this in 0:11:37.274 --> 0:11:40.634 terms of small talk, but also just in conversation with 0:11:40.634 --> 0:11:44.434 people you might not know that well where we've got 0:11:44.474 --> 0:11:47.994 really strict boundaries. I know that I've absorbed so much 0:11:48.034 --> 0:11:51.034 about what not to say to someone who's pregnant, what 0:11:51.194 --> 0:11:53.714 not to say to somebody who might be grieving, what 0:11:53.874 --> 0:11:56.074 not to say to somebody at work, and then you 0:11:56.194 --> 0:11:58.834 go to say something, you're so paralyzed by the thought 0:11:58.874 --> 0:12:01.834 you might offend them that you don't say anything. And 0:12:01.874 --> 0:12:05.714 that's a million times worse when the fact is, sometimes 0:12:05.714 --> 0:12:07.394 somebody can come up to you and in Poplar when 0:12:07.434 --> 0:12:10.554 you're bloody pregnant, people say all sorts of things and 0:12:11.274 --> 0:12:14.154 you don't really care. Like sometimes they'll say something quite 0:12:14.194 --> 0:12:17.754 like oh you're big, and then five seconds later the 0:12:17.794 --> 0:12:22.114 conversation has changed. Like an inappropriate comment can lead to 0:12:22.594 --> 0:12:25.434 quite a meaningful interaction. You kind of have to be 0:12:25.474 --> 0:12:26.274 a bit more forgiving. 0:12:26.314 --> 0:12:28.914 I think, what do you think about that? And I 0:12:28.954 --> 0:12:31.474 think it's true. But I also think that there's a 0:12:31.474 --> 0:12:34.754 difference between doing small talk with people you know versus 0:12:34.754 --> 0:12:37.634 doing small talk with strangers. And I think I'm quite 0:12:37.634 --> 0:12:39.314 good at small talk with people I know, because I 0:12:39.314 --> 0:12:42.234 feel safe in that. What's annoying is that if I'm 0:12:42.274 --> 0:12:45.154 with people I know who know me as the talker 0:12:45.234 --> 0:12:47.554 of the group, and then we're in a different environment. 0:12:47.794 --> 0:12:50.074 They expect me to do the work of being the 0:12:50.154 --> 0:12:53.394 small talker with strangers, and I hate that people who 0:12:53.394 --> 0:12:55.354 are talkers know that as well. They know they're the 0:12:55.354 --> 0:12:56.954 talker of the group and they have to take that on. 0:12:57.274 --> 0:12:59.994 That's what I don't like. I also know that there 0:12:59.994 --> 0:13:03.754 are certain situations where I definitely don't want small talk. 0:13:03.954 --> 0:13:08.234 If I'm getting massage, yeah yeah, talk to me. I 0:13:08.274 --> 0:13:11.274 once had a missus who was massaging me, and you 0:13:11.274 --> 0:13:13.434 know when they go to that like where it's like 0:13:13.554 --> 0:13:15.594 your lower back, but it's kind of your bum and 0:13:15.594 --> 0:13:17.194 you kind of have to be like okay because it's 0:13:17.194 --> 0:13:19.194 like you get tents over there too. And she was 0:13:19.194 --> 0:13:23.074 massaging my bum and she was like, whoa, your skin's 0:13:23.114 --> 0:13:26.594 so much lighter on this part of that. Oh no, 0:13:26.754 --> 0:13:31.754 She's like, what is your ethnicity? And I'm like, no time. 0:13:32.354 --> 0:13:37.834 So that strays into like inappropriate things, right, because being 0:13:37.834 --> 0:13:40.314 a fan of small talk doesn't mean that there's like 0:13:40.794 --> 0:13:43.514 an open door for you to just say inappropriate shit. 0:13:43.674 --> 0:13:46.274 Like I think you should pay attention to what's inappropriate. 0:13:46.274 --> 0:13:49.674 But I think a lot of people can tell that, right. 0:13:49.794 --> 0:13:53.114 I was thinking about my kids. I encourage my kids 0:13:53.154 --> 0:13:54.954 to talk to strangers, you know what I mean, not 0:13:54.994 --> 0:13:57.594 in a dangerous way, but it is literally something you 0:13:57.634 --> 0:14:00.314 have to teach them how to do. So go and 0:14:00.354 --> 0:14:02.074 ask the guy where the water is. You know what 0:14:02.114 --> 0:14:04.034 I mean, you're in the sushi place, whatever, Go and 0:14:04.074 --> 0:14:04.874 ask the guy where. 0:14:04.714 --> 0:14:05.194 The water is. 0:14:05.274 --> 0:14:08.594 No, absolutely, not no, absolute. I don't do that as 0:14:08.594 --> 0:14:09.154 a twenty nine. 0:14:09.234 --> 0:14:12.034 Yeah, go and ask the guy where the water is. 0:14:12.354 --> 0:14:12.434 No. 0:14:12.834 --> 0:14:15.274 But what I notice is that my kids have quite 0:14:15.314 --> 0:14:17.754 a good radar. So my teenage daughter has quite a 0:14:17.754 --> 0:14:20.074 good radar for if a stranger starts talking to her 0:14:20.114 --> 0:14:22.074 on the train or whatever, if they're. 0:14:21.914 --> 0:14:23.954 Creepy exactly because they. 0:14:23.794 --> 0:14:24.394 Can tell that. 0:14:24.674 --> 0:14:26.874 And she's not bad at small talk because she works 0:14:26.874 --> 0:14:29.754 in a shop, right, like you have to. Hospitality and 0:14:29.834 --> 0:14:32.474 retail is very good for teaching you how to just 0:14:32.554 --> 0:14:35.994 be like and be polite and be nice, but have boundaries. 0:14:36.434 --> 0:14:39.994 And I think that that's really interesting. Even though she's 0:14:40.074 --> 0:14:41.834 kind of been trained in small talk to a wait 0:14:41.994 --> 0:14:43.874 a point, it's certainly not to a point where she 0:14:43.914 --> 0:14:46.274 has to be polite to someone who's being creepy to her. 0:14:46.394 --> 0:14:47.194 There's a line there. 0:14:47.194 --> 0:14:49.354 But you know that, right, Like, if a guy starts 0:14:49.354 --> 0:14:51.154 talking to you in the lift or in the coffee queue, 0:14:51.754 --> 0:14:53.674 you can tell if he's talking to you in a 0:14:53.714 --> 0:14:55.674 creepy way or if he's just trying to be a 0:14:55.674 --> 0:14:56.994 decent person, don't you think. 0:14:56.914 --> 0:14:59.434 Eventually, not always from the get go, Like sometimes you 0:14:59.434 --> 0:15:01.594 can be deep into a conversation and then just swings 0:15:01.594 --> 0:15:03.594 and you're like, oh, you're a bad person. 0:15:03.954 --> 0:15:07.034 Well, this article is quite forgiving of the fact that, 0:15:07.114 --> 0:15:09.314 but there are going to be times when you're not 0:15:09.434 --> 0:15:11.114 in the mood. There are going to be times when 0:15:11.434 --> 0:15:13.674 you open a conversation with somebody else who is not 0:15:13.714 --> 0:15:16.154 in the mood, and the stakes are not that high, 0:15:16.234 --> 0:15:18.354 Like it's okay if you go to talk to someone 0:15:18.394 --> 0:15:20.754 and they don't respond, not the end of the world. 0:15:21.234 --> 0:15:23.434 And if somebody goes short to you, you are not 0:15:23.554 --> 0:15:26.994 expected to always be open to speaking to them. I 0:15:26.994 --> 0:15:29.194 think it is very valid, but a lot of women 0:15:29.434 --> 0:15:33.074 who have had scary experiences with men. I remember being 0:15:33.074 --> 0:15:34.994 in my twenties and I had had a very scary 0:15:35.034 --> 0:15:38.674 experience with a man, and then a week later a 0:15:38.674 --> 0:15:41.114 guy started talking to me on the train, and I 0:15:41.234 --> 0:15:43.434 was so terrified, and he got off at my stop, 0:15:43.474 --> 0:15:45.674 and I was paranoid that he was gonna because he 0:15:45.714 --> 0:15:46.954 was still chatting to me, and I was like, what 0:15:46.994 --> 0:15:50.034 if you know where I live and that's not about him, 0:15:50.114 --> 0:15:52.634 that's about me. But it's also valid, like that is 0:15:52.874 --> 0:15:56.874 a valid boundary. So I think there's so much there. 0:15:57.074 --> 0:16:00.714 But it is a really important skill because I notice 0:16:00.754 --> 0:16:03.754 sometimes with young people, and I'm very empathetic because I 0:16:03.834 --> 0:16:06.994 was the same the young people who don't know how 0:16:06.994 --> 0:16:08.794 to make malfunction. 0:16:09.314 --> 0:16:11.914 Myself won't do it, but that's that's for different reasons, 0:16:12.114 --> 0:16:13.914 and he gets very upset when we try and make 0:16:13.994 --> 0:16:17.114 him do it. But I think even the massage example, 0:16:17.274 --> 0:16:18.274 sometimes if you're. 0:16:18.194 --> 0:16:21.354 In the mood and you like them, you. 0:16:21.354 --> 0:16:23.554 Come out of that kind of interaction with like an 0:16:23.594 --> 0:16:26.754 amazing story, not necessarily a story to tell people, but like, wow, 0:16:26.794 --> 0:16:28.594 I learned all about their life and where their kids, 0:16:28.634 --> 0:16:30.594 what their kids are doing, and how many jobs are 0:16:30.794 --> 0:16:33.314 Like I think it's a window into other people's worlds. 0:16:33.474 --> 0:16:35.714 And maybe I like collecting those, maybe because I'm a writer, 0:16:35.794 --> 0:16:38.874 maybe because I'm nosy. I like collecting stories from people 0:16:38.914 --> 0:16:41.274 I don't know, because otherwise you just in this everybody 0:16:41.314 --> 0:16:43.914 knows everyone. The place I'm terrible at small talk, which 0:16:43.914 --> 0:16:45.514 is ironic, is work functions. 0:16:45.994 --> 0:16:47.474 I hate them. 0:16:47.514 --> 0:16:49.314 Like if I'm at A, I mean obviously, if I'm 0:16:49.314 --> 0:16:51.034 with my friends, it's good and I do it all that. 0:16:51.074 --> 0:16:53.314 I've been doing it for decades, so I can do it. 0:16:53.354 --> 0:16:55.474 But I find that much harder, Like. 0:16:55.994 --> 0:16:59.034 Holly, here's Benny. Benny works at BLA. You work at blah. 0:16:59.234 --> 0:17:03.834 Oh really, I get really, I get really nervous. The 0:17:03.874 --> 0:17:06.554 people I think are the best at small talk who 0:17:06.594 --> 0:17:10.034 I always have the best conversations with a makeup artists, 0:17:10.074 --> 0:17:14.114 oh so good when before I always think before you go, 0:17:14.474 --> 0:17:17.474 if you ever do television and the makeup artist does 0:17:17.474 --> 0:17:20.474 your makeup beforehand, I'm always like, this is a better 0:17:20.474 --> 0:17:24.033 conversation than what we're gonna have because you're a vibe 0:17:24.474 --> 0:17:26.954 and they always just have and I feel very comfortable 0:17:26.954 --> 0:17:30.114 being like, what celebrities have you done makeup for? And 0:17:30.154 --> 0:17:32.513 what were they like? And the last makeup artist I 0:17:32.554 --> 0:17:35.354 talked to did the makeup for a bride on Mauth 0:17:35.754 --> 0:17:39.714 and it was just a really lovely Let's keep this 0:17:39.754 --> 0:17:41.754 small going forever. 0:17:42.394 --> 0:17:44.033 I'd love to know if any out louders have like 0:17:44.074 --> 0:17:48.354 a go to small talk question because we've talked about 0:17:48.354 --> 0:17:50.513