WEBVTT - How To Stop Overthinking What People Think Of You 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.520 Your brain con differentiate if it's a social threat or 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:06.000 whether a tiger walks into this room right now. Our 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:09.520 body reacts the same way. So it's actually so crazy 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:13.680 how you have that feeling physically nauseous, you know, that 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:16.479 fight flight response of kind of for some people that 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:21.440 might be nauseous, heart racing, breathing changing. Because we detect 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:23.800 social threats in the same way as we would any 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:27.240 other physical threat, so it is a very emotional and 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:28.280 physical response. 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:36.239 Hi, I'm a shiny dante and this is but are 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:40.800 you happy? No one likes criticism. It stings, it bruises 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:44.839 the ego, and emotionally, it can hit harder than we expect. 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:49.280 But there's a difference between feeling impacted and taking these 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:53.320 deeply personal because at a certain point, it's not just 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:57.080 the big moments. It's the slightly offton in an email, 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:00.440 the way someone brushes past you on the train, a 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:04.759 cancel plan that suddenly feels loaded, and before you know it, 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:09.440 you're scanning for meaning, reading between the lines, assuming the worst. 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.120 Our brains are wide to make sense of social information, 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:19.000 but in that process, ambiguity often gets translated into this 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:22.640 is about me. So why do some of us take 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:25.520 things more personally than others, and when does the shift 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.600 from sensitivity into something that starts to impact how we 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:32.360 move through the world. In this episode, I'm joined by 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:37.199 Sydney based clinical psychologist Anita Shimmans. We explore how early 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:41.280 experiences can shape the way we respond to criticism, whether 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:43.479 we can take it on board in a healthy way 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:47.200 or whether it cuts just a little too deep, and 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:50.480 we talk about what helps practical tools that you can 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:54.120 actually use in the moment, like learning how to reframe 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:59.200 what's happening so it doesn't automatically become personal. Here's our conversation. 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.320 Thank you so much, Anita for joining us for another conversation. 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:04.480 I'm excited. 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:08.239 Yeah, I'm really excited about this topic because it's one 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:10.720 I think again, I feel like every topic is very relatable, 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:11.679 but this one. 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.200 This one everyone has experienced. 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:18.919 Yeah, yeah, yes, So why do we take things personally? 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:23.120 Like what's going on in the body and the mind? Yeah? Okay, 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:25.800 so we've got to get it unpack this a little bit. Yeah. 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:29.880 So it's normal that we relate everything that happens around 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:34.480 us back to how it concerns ourselves. So it's normal 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:37.640 that we kind of have this, it's got negative connotation, 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:40.520 but it doesn't. It doesn't really ecocentric kind of an 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:44.760 ecocentric kind of perspective where we relate what's happening in 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:47.400 the world back to how it makes sense for us. 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:51.760 So that's a normal default for all of us. We're 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:56.360 also really good at detecting any potential social threats. And 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:59.320 the reason why that is is because if you think, 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:03.520 you know, back to evolutionary history, if I am ousted 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:07.240 by my group, I will literally die. So I have 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.919 to be quite attuned to what's going on. Are these 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:14.359 guys you know, am I am I okay here? Or 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:17.480 are people kind of taking issue with me? So it's 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:21.200 better to be overly sensitive to that than miss acute 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:24.480 and have a really dire kind of consequence from missing it. 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:28.320 So we are all already naturally good to make things 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.839 about ourselves and to be really attuned to what other 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:34.839 people are thinking about us, and to have a more 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:39.800 sort of negative lens or threat lens on what others are, 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:42.320 what signals others are sending us. 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:44.880 Yeah, it's interesting you talk about the threat thing because 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.240 I think about the times when you know, my boss 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:49.520 might be like, hey, can we have a chat or 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:51.280 even just that alone. 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:53.160 I notice my body it. 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:56.440 Feels like it's threatened, it's tense, So like, can you 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:59.840 unpacking what's going on there? Like what's the emotional process 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.200 from a mind perspective, but also like what we're feeling. 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:06.680 Yeah, yeah, it's so good because it's actually your brain 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:09.880 con differentiate if it's a social threat or whether a 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:13.520 tiger walks into this room right now. Our body reacts 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:18.120 the same way. So it's actually so crazy. How you 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:22.720 know you have that feeling physically nauseous, you know that 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:25.520 fight flight response of kind of for some people that 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:32.320 might be nauseous, heart rate racing, you're breathing changing, because 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.120 we detect social threats in the same way as we 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:37.920 would any other physical threat. So it is a very 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:40.040 emotional and physical response. 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.080 Wow, that makes so much more sense. 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:44.400 So it's like when I'm seeing my boss being like 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:46.800 can we talk, I'm thinking a line's about to come 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:47.160 and eat me? 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:51.400 Yeah, like literally totally, yeah, exactly exactly. But you can 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:53.640 see how and this is such a cool thing to unpack. 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:57.760 Actually a good example because statement is so neutral, but 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:00.880 we've played so much meaning and it happens in a 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:04.599 split second, right so you have that immediate emotional response, 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:08.120 But what's happened between what was said and your response 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:11.200 is kind of that interpretation of what meaning you laid 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:13.479 on that, And I assume it's something like I'm in 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:15.239 trouble or I've done something wrong. 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:16.800 Yeah, definitely. 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:20.200 Yeah, there's so many layers to it, Like what do 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:23.760 you find are the most common situations where people do 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:24.839 take things personally. 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:30.880 We take things personally in areas that we have closely 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:34.560 tied to our sense of self worth and identity. So 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:38.039 if I am a career person, I'm probably going to 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:41.920 be more sensitive to any cues that I'm not doing 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:46.000 the right thing work wise than somebody who's actually, like 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:48.280 I work to live, not live to work, I don't 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:50.520 really care so much, they might be a lot less 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:54.240 prone to take things personally in that space. So we 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:55.960 take things personally where we care most. 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:58.640 Yeah, that's so true, because I'm thinking about the times 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.040 where I would take things personally, Like, definitely, work has 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:03.919 work so important for me, But then also the people 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.039 I really care about, you know, like if you're my 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:08.359 husband's like, hey, can we have a chat, I'm like, 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:11.880 oh no, Like it's different because it's not it doesn't 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:15.160 activate threat. It's just more like concern being like. 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:17.440 Oh shit, like god, I do you know? 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:20.159 Yeah, And probably most of us can relate to the 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:24.440 relationship side because we're really you know, geared as humans 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.880 to care a lot about relationships, and so the people 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:30.800 that are closest to us have a lot to do 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.360 with our sense of identity and safety, and so we 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:35.640 do tend to care about what people that we know 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:39.400 say about us more than you know, some random stranger 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:39.880 on the street. 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.039 Yeah, definitely the trolls out there. Yeah, the trolls. 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:45.880 Yeah, but even that's super hard to yeah, super hard 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:47.799 not to take a personal totally totally. 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:49.720 We are human after all, right. 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:54.360 Yeah, exactly, and our brain's evolved in a place where 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:56.800 there was no social media, and you know, you might 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:00.440 have had at best fifty one hundred people could have 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.320 an opinion about you, and so you have to be 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:06.800 sensitive because all of those really mattered. But now, you know, 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:10.760 if you've got a million eyes on you, literally, it 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:14.840 becomes overwhelming to have those say that same brain that 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:16.280 cares about every single comment. 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:18.960 Yeah, that's so true, so true. 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:22.480 And it's interesting too, because something I'm curious about is, 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.480 you know, I can imagine there's no clinical diagnosis to 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:28.360 taking things personally, right, but I can imagine that it 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.560 might be a feature for other mental health conditions as well. 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.680 Or yeah, yeah, so as you say, like in and 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.480 of itself, it's a really natural and human thing to do. 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:41.480 And then where does it kind of tap into go 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:44.440 from something that's really normal and common to something that's 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:48.800 really a bit more than that. And You're right, it 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:51.440 might be linked to things like depression. So if I 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:57.680 feel really awful and I'm scared of feeling kind of 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:02.960 rejection by and I have all these core beliefs that 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:04.600 I am actually really not good enough, and so I'm 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:07.360 looking through that lens, it might be linked to things 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:11.880 like low mood or anxiety for sure, maybe some personality 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:15.520 disorder stuff as well, where I'm expecting criticism or I'm 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:19.960 expecting lashings out or I'm also if I have a 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:26.320 trauma background, for instance, and I am I'm expecting people 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:30.160 not to mean well by me, and that this threat 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.720 in other people that might make me more likely to 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:35.520 take things personally as well. 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.800 Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of different factors that So 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:41.480 how does our childhood pass. 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:42.400 I'm not trying to go. 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:46.200 So how does our childhood or past trauma and personality 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:47.320 play into all of this? 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:51.800 Again, such a cool nature nurture question. Yes, really, Yeah, 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:55.480 it's interesting to unpack. So I would say from the 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:57.880 nature side, we might be born with a bit more 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:02.439 of a sensitive imperman and we might be so we 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:05.360 might be much more attuned to what's going on around us. 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:07.440 That can be a really positive thing, but also in 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:11.080 this case might go too far. But that might be 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:14.160 kind of from a personality standpoint, what we bring to 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:17.120 the table. And then there's a lot that happens in 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:20.240 our early environment that may make us more prone to 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:24.360 take things personally. So if we're talking about an attachment, 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:29.280 kind of from an attachment perspective, if my parents are 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:34.200 really unpredictable, sometimes they're really warm, sometimes they're not, sometimes 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:37.040 it's just not there, I'm going to become very attuned 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:41.240 to picking up on tiny little cues because it's become 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:46.240 really an important strategy for me not to miss opportunities 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:50.640 to connect. And so yeah, if you've got an anxious attachment, 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:54.559 I might be very rejection sensitive and be looking out 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:57.920 for those cues and much more sensitive to them compared 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:01.440 to someone who doesn't have that anxious attachment. I've got 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.600 a more avoidant attachment. So if I'm used to people 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:07.040 can't be relied on and I have to find for myself, 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:10.640 I might just have a lot more of a defensive 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:14.080 kind of, you know, keep you at bay kind of 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.520 mindset and expect that everything you have to say to 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:22.360 me or do towards me is somehow doesn't have the 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:26.600 best intentions. That will impact that as well. 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.520 Yeah, it's interesting because as you're like talking it out, 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.600 I'm thinking, I'm like, wow, that's so exhausting. Like, no 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.720 matter what you fall into in terms of those attachment types, 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:38.040 I'm like, wow, just to have that constantly in the 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:39.680 back of your mind is a lot. 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:43.640 It is, Yeah, And it's just it's so automatic as well. 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:47.680 So yeah, it's exhausting when you perceive the world through 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:51.120 kind of a threat lens and it takes a toll. 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:53.520 Do you feel like there's any gender differences when it 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:55.000 comes to taking things personally. 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:59.679 It's a great question. I would say there's no kind 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:03.000 of gender that's more likely to take things personally. I 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.920 think it's the environment growing up more so that might 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:09.200 make you a little bit more prone to taking things personally. 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:10.559 But I do think it. 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:14.920 Might play out differently for men and women. So, like 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:17.800 we said before, we take things personally in areas where 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:21.320 we care most about. So perhaps for a woman that 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:26.199 might be you know, traditionally we might have had these 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:31.520 societal expectations that women don't show anger or aren't too 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:35.920 kind of forward, and so maybe any ambiguous comments that 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:41.280 might show that you've somehow violated those expectations you might 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:44.199 be much more sensitive to than a guy, where that's 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.560 much more acceptable. Whereas maybe for men, they have different 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:51.079 societal expectations placed on them not to be too vulnerable 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:55.560 or too sensitive, and so any comments that might imply 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.800 that at all might be taken up much more personally 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:00.959 than for a woman the comments wouldn't. 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:04.280 Yeah, it's amazing just how like those external factors can 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.360 really drive how we show up internally as well. 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:11.160 Yeah, yeah, exactly, I think, you know, it's even doubt 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:12.800 a little bit now, but I would say, you know, 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:16.640 historically it might have been that there was a more 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:20.880 gendered element to it, where yeah, women were kind of 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:24.160 placed in a very particular it was a very small 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:25.840 kind of box that we were allowed to be in, 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.679 and Sony, any signals that we might be stepping outside 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:32.480 of that very rigid box would be a threat, and 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.200 therefore we might have been much more attuned to picking 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:37.200 up on any potential trespasses. 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:40.160 So does being a part of a culture that values, 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.560 you know, emotional toughness, Like, does that make it harder 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.120 to express when something has hurt you? 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:51.000 Likely it's still happening, but it's just suppressed because you 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.960 can't express how something has impacted you because then you 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.560 might be you know, yeah, it kind of goes against 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:02.959 maybe so cultural, but the feeling's still there. But then 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:06.520 perhaps it's just not able to be communicated, y yes, 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:10.040 and suppressed and therefore might even take a bigger toll potentially. 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:10.360 Yeah. 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.079 Yeah, it doesn't go away entirely, it's just not doesn't 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:13.880 find an outlet. 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:15.000 Yeah, totally. 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.560 And it's interesting too because I think something that I've 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:21.520 really focused on is sometimes not having that expectation that 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:24.840 you know, within my culture, that you know, my parents 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:26.520 can be able to hear me in the way that 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:28.959 I want them to be heard as well, because I'm like, oh, 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:32.080 they don't have that capacity, they didn't have that upbringing 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:33.560 to be able to hold it in that way. So 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:36.000 I think bringing a bit of that kind of compassionate 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:37.240 less has really helped. 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:38.080 Yeah. 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:43.120 Absolutely, Yeah, So how does social media and online communication 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:47.080 amplify this tendency to feel personally attacked? Like you know 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:49.880 when you get those you send a message on Instagram 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:53.080 and it's like the red receipts. You know, it's like 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:56.120 they've read it but they haven't responded, or to someone's 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:59.040 like love hearted emoji something but then can say thank you. 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:00.719 You know, we can spy. They're all a lot. 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.600 That's such a good point because you're missing about half 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:05.719 of the information that you would usually take in right. 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:09.480 All the nonverbal cues that will give you a clue 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:11.560 on whether this is something that you should be taking 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.880 personally or not go missing. So if I saw somebody 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.920 receive my text and their kids are screaming at them 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:21.120 at the same time, and you're resing someone's at the 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.360 front door and so they put the phone away, I 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.280 would know that there's all these contextual factors that make 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:27.920 them not be able to respond right now. But if 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:30.880 I'm missing all of that, I might be there sitting 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.120 right well, I know exactly what happened here, and that's 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.080 because you know she's actually mad at me and that's 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:36.080 why she's not replying. 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:38.880 Yeah. Same with comments. 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:40.720 For instance, do you see my face and I'm sort 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:43.640 of saying, hey, I love your pants, you might be 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.400 able to you know, even if you're prone to taking 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.280 things personally, it might really give you enough cues to oh, no, 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:52.280 she's authentic there, and I'll take it as a compliment. 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:56.200 Whereas if I comment on a picture of yours, and 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:59.200 you might be prone to taking things personally, expecting kind 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:02.600 of criticism, passive aggressive comments, and I just said nice 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:06.720 pants without any you know, context, you might put your 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:10.680 lens onto that more and then perhaps be yeah, taking 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:12.880 it personally when it went because you're missing all of 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:17.160 that other information. Yeah, And when our brains lack information, 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.080 we fill in the gap. Yeah, and we fill in 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:21.560 the gap in a negative way. 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:21.960 Yeah. 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:24.640 Right, So that's that's what we all do. 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:27.520 When there's information missing, We're going to kind of jump 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:28.600 to worst case scenario. 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:29.000 Yeah. 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:31.720 We really swim in so many assumptions and we're like, wow, 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:33.200 why do I feel so hurt? 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:35.080 Oh? I created all of this, you. 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.240 Know, yeah, and I want to like preempt it. But 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:40.800 it might not be all about you. Right, Well, you 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.880 have to say title in your head, it is worthwhile disentangling, 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:45.920 like what is what am I bringing to the table? 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:47.960 What am I layering on top of what was said? 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:50.320 And usually that is at least a big part. 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.200 Yeah, yeah, I think I really like the example around. 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:55.760 You know, we talk about the difference between digital communication 0:15:56.120 --> 0:16:00.360 and just that face to face because nonverbal communication is 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.480 so powerful, you know, it really adds to our communication style. 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:04.000 So I like that. 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:07.800 We remember, like there's yeah, there's just so many gaps 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:09.680 in digital communication, which is. 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.320 And gen Z don't use emojis, so like do they not? 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:15.480 Is it a millennial scene? Gosh, I should know this, 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.640 but I know a lot of gen zs. 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:22.720 Know as a millennial, I'm like, you know, heart emogen, yeah, 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:27.320 communicate all but then gen Z there's just nothing. And 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:31.800 I'm like, yeah, they're too cool, too cool for school. 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.000 I was like, wow, that's even more open to interpretation. 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:39.120 Yeah, the generational difference is exactly exact. 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:43.920 Yeah. More of my conversation with Anita after this break. 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:48.920 So how much of taking things personally is about the 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:52.680 fear of not being good enough versus my egos are 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:54.560 actually just really bruised, right, Now. 0:16:56.080 --> 0:17:01.480 It's interesting because it's it's connected because what is ego. 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:05.840 It's it's it's kind of this layer, this protective layer 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.960 of never wanting, never having to kind of feel that 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:12.040 underlying defectiveness. So it's like an amplification, it's like an 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:19.679 overcompensation for feeling less than underneath. So bruised ego is 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:23.720 because it's touching on something that you already believe about 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:28.359 yourself and you don't want to face. And so you know, 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:31.880 often the comment might have not even been intended that way, 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:34.920 but your ego is bruised because there's already an internal 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.440 story about this topic that you've created. 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:41.280 So it's like giving more data to go within find 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:42.080 out what's going on. 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:46.280 Yeah, exactly, exactly, And so you know, if I have 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.880 to face that feeling of not being good enough because 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:53.680 of something that you said, it's incredibly painful. So breust 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:57.760 ego it can feel actually like the same areas of 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:01.399 the brain light up in that kind of pain compared 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.560 to physical pain. So again our brain is really it's 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:08.080 hard for our brain to differentiate different types of pain. 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.320 Yeah, it's so interesting because I know because before you 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:14.000 also talked about how our brain interprets seeing a line 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:16.440 is the same threat as you see your boss say, 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:19.560 can you have a chat with me? We think that 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.040 our brains are really smart, and it is, but it's 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:24.639 just funny because when you unpack like the details of 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:28.399 how our brain interprets things, it makes me wonder. I'm like, oh, wow, Okay, 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.800 maybe I'm giving my brain too much about like there's 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:32.159 still a. 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:33.720 Lot to learn and change. 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.160 Totally, it would be cool if it could differentiate actual 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:39.880 from perceived threat so that, yeah, you wouldn't have to yeah, 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:42.280 be so alarmed all the time, will but also. 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:44.480 Hurt all the time. Yeah. 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.000 A lot of what we've been talking about is, you know, 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:50.119 taking things personally can be seen as like a bad 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.840 thing or we can kind of villainize the term, right, 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.560 but can it be a good thing? Like is it 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:57.880 okay to take things personally? 0:18:57.920 --> 0:18:59.680 Sometimes? Yeah, totally. 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.600 I think you know, when we take things personally, it's 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:05.520 kind of a cue signpost something's going on that's important 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.960 to me. So it gives you some information that we're talking, 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.040 we're touching on something that is of importance. 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:13.240 That's a really good thing. 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:18.320 It also gives you a sense of have my boundaries 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:21.480 been crossed or have my values been. 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:28.320 Has it been a sort of an a violation of 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:29.280 my values? 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:32.360 So it does give you really important information as well, 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:35.320 So it's not just bad. The bad thing is is 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:38.119 if it takes you to a place where you know 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:41.120 it makes going through life really hard because you're sort 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:45.000 of expecting and seeing threat at every corner. But butterfault 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.320 is not necessarily something bad, and sometimes you will find 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:52.639 that actually, even once you've done all the thought exercises 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:55.920 that we might talk about in a bit, that what's 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:58.199 left at the end is actually something that you need 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:00.639 to address with the other person. I think that is 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:03.679 genuinely important to pay attention to. 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:06.160 Yeah, that's so true. It's good. 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:07.639 I think it's really great we shine a light on 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:10.399 that because I think also, you know, we are human, 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:12.560 like I think, you know, when we feel like our 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:15.439 boundaries across or we are taking things personally like I 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:18.160 do see it as a sign of self respect, being like, okay, 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:21.800 this is really interesting, what about this? Because sometimes I think, 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:24.800 if you've been a people pleaser a long time, I'm 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:28.159 talking about myself, it's like you always yeah, literally, you 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:30.760 always think that you're the one to play Oh, I'm 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:33.560 in the wrong. I've fucked up, so I need to 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:36.240 look at that. Whereas to even come to a place 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:38.680 where you're like, oh, actually that wasn't. 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:40.479 Okay, it's really big. 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:42.480 That's a really good point of seanny, because I was 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:44.879 coming at it from more like, if you're prone to 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.760 always take things personally, can it still be a good thing? 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:50.719 But you're right, if you're prone to always internalize and 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:53.879 find fault within rather than find fault in others, then 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:57.080 it can actually be a really empowering thing to take 0:20:57.119 --> 0:20:59.080 that as a cue that there is something that needs 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:01.920 to be addressed here and you need to respect those boundaries. 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:03.360