Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Mom and Mia out loud. It's
Speaker 1: what women are actually talking about on Friday, the seventeenth
Speaker 1: of April.
Speaker 2: I'm hollywayn Wright, I'm Clear Stevens.
Speaker 1: And I'm m Burnham. And here's what's on our Friday agenda.
Speaker 1: Do you need a hobby? Yes? Probably, Yes, you've got some.
Speaker 1: I think we'll get to we'll get to it. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the intense hobby era and why they can sometimes
Speaker 1: feel really hard to get.
Speaker 3: Plus an unofficial list of the things women do to
Speaker 3: make it look like.
Speaker 1: They have their shit together.
Speaker 4: We discuss yes and not one, but three TV shows
Speaker 4: to watch this weekend or over the long weekend next
Speaker 4: weekend if you get.
Speaker 1: It and not everybody's getting it because and that day
Speaker 1: is a Saturday. This year, some states capitulated to giving
Speaker 1: everybody the Monday off and some states kept it pure. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: the Victoria keep it pure because they get way too
Speaker 1: many holidays. I'm just going to say right.
Speaker 2: Now they can sacrifice.
Speaker 1: Sorry to all the Victorians listening, take it up with
Speaker 1: Emily Vernon. Sorry, but first, Claire Stevens.
Speaker 4: This week we all came across a piece on the
Speaker 4: cart called the Secret to a great.
Speaker 2: Marriage Crushes on other People by E. J. Dixon and I.
Speaker 2: In hindsight, we were.
Speaker 4: All a little bit too enthusiastic about this headline.
Speaker 2: We were all praise emojis and like, yes, I love this.
Speaker 4: Love this, and I think that's something for usman terrogaate
Speaker 4: quietly when we're on our about it later, why did
Speaker 4: we love this so much? But the article was I
Speaker 4: thought very interesting. And there's been a whole lot happening
Speaker 4: in the zeitgeist that I think echoes what this article
Speaker 4: was saying. So Dixon writes, I think my husband is
Speaker 4: bar Nunn, the sexiest person on the planet.
Speaker 1: She like has to say that in the story because
Speaker 1: the story is about like having crushes on other people,
Speaker 1: So you have to. It's like when you're about to
Speaker 1: bitch about parenthood, but you have to say, first, I
Speaker 1: love my children so much.
Speaker 4: You've got to be in a defensive crouch, being like,
Speaker 4: I do love me, my promise. But we also regularly
Speaker 4: talk about people outside our marriage who we find attractive,
Speaker 4: not in any lascivious way, but casually, as if we
Speaker 4: were discussing weekend plans or what to have for dinner.
Speaker 4: Some friends I've told about this. Can't believe we talk
Speaker 4: so openly about this kind of thing. But I really
Speaker 4: can't imagine why anyone would opt for the alternative. If
Speaker 4: your partner has a face with eyes and ears and
Speaker 4: has not been chemically castrated, of course they're going to
Speaker 4: find other people attractive. Hy be dishonest about it fair
Speaker 4: enough and disagree. EJ's friend Kara, who's thirty five, said
Speaker 4: a crush while you're married is like a little sweet
Speaker 4: snack that gets you through the four PM slump, And
Speaker 4: her friend Jill, who's thirty two, when as far as
Speaker 4: to say, is it can that it can rejuvenate your
Speaker 4: sex life, and she said it can be fun to
Speaker 4: fantasize about having a tryst with someone else, but at
Speaker 4: the end of the day, that fantasy can ultimately make
Speaker 4: you more grateful for the partnership you're in.
Speaker 2: So my question is do we agree?
Speaker 4: And then I want to I want some transparency around
Speaker 4: who our crushes are. And your facial expression is saying When.
Speaker 1: I first read this, I thought it was actual satire.
Speaker 1: You were like, is it April? The first I was like,
Speaker 1: are people in relationships? Okay? Are you guys doing all right.
Speaker 1: I feel like, if you're searching for a crush to
Speaker 1: make your relationship better, just be single. It's fine. It's
Speaker 1: fine to be single, Like it actually is. Like, it's
Speaker 1: crusually fine. And you know what's really fun when you're
Speaker 1: single having crushes?
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, crushes are.
Speaker 4: I would argue though, that crushes are always fun because
Speaker 4: when you've been in relationships, when you've kind of been
Speaker 4: seeing someone and you're into that person, do you think
Speaker 4: that all your desire for other people goes out the window.
Speaker 1: I don't think it.
Speaker 3: Goes out the window, but I think there's a limit.
Speaker 3: I feel like certain crushes are okay. Celebrity crushes yep, fine.
Speaker 1: Crush like the whole past idea is fine as long
Speaker 1: as they're not real people passed.
Speaker 3: Because then what if it happens, like we all work
Speaker 3: in the entertainment, what do we meet celebrities?
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I meet your whole past. Me like, I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry, now I have to have sex with you my.
Speaker 2: Whole past, and your partner's like I get it, I
Speaker 2: get it.
Speaker 1: We made an agreement. No, I think celebrity crushes are okay.
Speaker 3: I think acknowledging that other people are very attractive is okay, like,
Speaker 3: hey look at that guy. That guy is a really
Speaker 3: good looking guy, and your partner can be like agreed,
Speaker 3: and then we move on. But I think a crush
Speaker 3: can lead into dangerous territory. And I know this because
Speaker 3: when I was single in my twenties, I would have
Speaker 3: these big, big crushes and they would lead.
Speaker 1: Into these areas where I would be like.
Speaker 3: Day dreaming about them and thinking about our life together,
Speaker 3: and it just keeps going and going and going. And
Speaker 3: the the reason it works so well is because you
Speaker 3: don't actually know them as a person. And I'm like,
Speaker 3: if that happened, if I was in a relationship, that
Speaker 3: sounds like a bad time.
Speaker 1: I think it depends like every I will always say that,
Speaker 1: I think that everybody's different in this regard, Like some
Speaker 1: people just cannot handle the idea that their partner finds
Speaker 1: other people attractive at all, and other people actually turned
Speaker 1: on by it. We're going to get to that in
Speaker 1: a minute. And in between those two things, I think
Speaker 1: there's a big spectrum. I think in this piece there
Speaker 1: are some examples of places where it's very safe. Right,
Speaker 1: So there's an example for in here where it's says
Speaker 1: Sarah has been in a relationship for ten years, but
Speaker 1: she currently has a crush on the hot barista at
Speaker 1: her local coffee shop who knows her name and her order.
Speaker 1: Her boyfriend knows about him, and was also aware of
Speaker 1: a previous crush on a waiter at a dina she frequented.
Speaker 1: I'd tell him I saw my other boyfriend today and
Speaker 1: he'd be like, happy for you. I think that is
Speaker 1: the perfect definition of a safe crush because unlikely to
Speaker 1: eventuate in anything not socially connected to them, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, as they're not in your circle. Cool,
Speaker 1: You're not like you're not ever going to see them
Speaker 1: in a different context, very specific context. Your partner knows
Speaker 1: about it, and you joke about it together. Healthy, healthy, healthy.
Speaker 4: And you're aware that you're only finding them hot, attractive, charismatic,
Speaker 4: whatever in one really shallow circumstance and.
Speaker 1: It makes your day a bit better. That's that's the
Speaker 1: point that one of the people makes here about the
Speaker 1: three pm snack. Is like getting her coffee and smiling
Speaker 1: at the guy and they have a bit of flirtatious banter.
Speaker 1: Is just like a nice little thing in her day,
Speaker 1: and it's not hurting anyone. The danger zones are workmate
Speaker 1: who like you flirting at the photocopy of one minute.
Speaker 1: I don't think we have first copies anymore. But you know,
Speaker 1: water cooler, whatever it is, we don't have those, the microwaves.
Speaker 1: I see a lot of flirtation going on in our
Speaker 1: office that I'm sure is platonic, but it's still.
Speaker 4: There, right, blurty, flirty banter in the kitchen.
Speaker 1: Right, it's fine, Mum and me and stuff.
Speaker 3: When you see Hollywood her notebook washing, you heat up
Speaker 3: your LuFe and just be aware.
Speaker 1: I see a lot of it, flirty banter in the kitchen.
Speaker 1: And then if that escalates to like messaging. You're on
Speaker 1: the couch watching TV with your partner and your message
Speaker 1: like that, then you've crossed a line. Yeah, so there's
Speaker 1: like a whole lot of degrees here, which I think
Speaker 1: would be very healthy. Okay, so do you not agree
Speaker 1: with that? I don't agree.
Speaker 3: Say this woman who has a crush on a barista
Speaker 3: is there with her boyfriend and the barista goes, hey,
Speaker 3: I'm playing a gig later tonight. Do both of you
Speaker 3: want to come? And they're like, oh, yeah, that sounds fine,
Speaker 3: Like I know you have a crush on him, but
Speaker 3: it's like a fun gig, let's both go, and they
Speaker 3: both go to the gig and.
Speaker 1: Then the whole and then he paying the.
Speaker 3: Guitar and like it's so hard he has to take
Speaker 3: a shirt off and he's playing his guitar. And then
Speaker 3: something just twinges in her brain and she's like, oh,
Speaker 3: I think this might be more than a little crush.
Speaker 1: That's the thing.
Speaker 3: I feel like it could start there with the barista,
Speaker 3: But the minute it moves a little in, you're going
Speaker 3: to keep moving and moving and moving.
Speaker 1: But you can't, like hermatically seal your life so that
Speaker 1: you never see another human who's attractive. That's fine, but
Speaker 1: I can think you can find them attractive.
Speaker 3: But I think when you start calling someone your crush,
Speaker 3: it's more than just seeing them as attractive.
Speaker 4: But I reckon there is such a profound difference between
Speaker 4: being like I've been with my partner for so long
Speaker 4: I can't remember, it's over half our lives, and it's
Speaker 4: like you've been with them for so long, you have
Speaker 4: a child together, you've got commitments together, you're trying to
Speaker 4: build a life together. Like there is it's it's so
Speaker 4: beyond finding the BIA it is. It's a different, incuemparable
Speaker 4: and I have it all the time, and I talk
Speaker 4: to friends about it and we will love often. It's
Speaker 4: like industry stuff where like I mean, I can say
Speaker 4: this because everyone listening will agree everyone has a crush
Speaker 4: on Trent Dolta.
Speaker 1: Oh except I have met him. We have met him,
Speaker 1: and he is lovely. But there's like an innocence to
Speaker 1: the idea of going like, he's amazing.
Speaker 3: Because it's like Trandhalton invited you to dinner, would you
Speaker 3: go to dinner?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, but not in a romantic way, not
Speaker 1: in the romantically other.
Speaker 2: Thing as well?
Speaker 4: Is that I I think it's also different when I'm like,
Speaker 4: I'm such a weird, awkward person that, like I the
Speaker 4: idea of ever acting on anything is frankly hilarious and
Speaker 4: also not appealing.
Speaker 2: Like that's not the point.
Speaker 4: The point isn't acting on it, because as soon as
Speaker 4: you as you acted on it, you would see that
Speaker 4: they're not. Everybody's flawed and your partner has strengths that
Speaker 4: that other person doesn't have. In all of that, but
Speaker 4: I genuinely think that there is I think a red
Speaker 4: flag is somebody who kind of can't engage with the
Speaker 4: idea of finding anyone else attractive or charismatic.
Speaker 2: For example, on a brilliant cho cald Marriati at.
Speaker 4: First Site the other week there was a grass is
Speaker 4: Greener challenge where they went out to lunch with the
Speaker 4: people that they would have been matched with, and there
Speaker 4: are a couple of guys who left the table and
Speaker 4: had to stand in the bathroom because they were like,
Speaker 4: this is ridiculous, and I'm like, the fact you can't
Speaker 4: have a conversation I agreement.
Speaker 1: I think a much bigger red flag I agree with
Speaker 1: Claire is if you said to your partner, like, don't
Speaker 1: you find this like objectively gorgeous woman attractive and they go, no, darling,
Speaker 1: I will find you attracted. Sure, that is a much
Speaker 1: bigger problem right there, because they're lying for a start.
Speaker 1: So the idea of the honesty is fine, and I
Speaker 1: just need to clarify for the absolute record that of
Speaker 1: course I would go to dinner with Trent Dalton, but
Speaker 1: for no, the man is married. I am very like,
Speaker 1: if you are allowed.
Speaker 2: To like he has a beautiful it makes it it's okay,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: What I mean? Like, I think we can't live in
Speaker 1: those kind of Donald Trump, he's like those you know
Speaker 1: what's he called Mike Pence, the guy who used to
Speaker 1: be the Vice President of the States, and he would
Speaker 1: be I can never be alone in a room with
Speaker 1: a woman professionally, which means that there can't be any
Speaker 1: senior women in my team. I would never be out
Speaker 1: in a social setting with a woman, so I could
Speaker 1: meet somebody for a coffee and a professional like that,
Speaker 1: to me is much worse than people being able to
Speaker 1: just go yeah, like sometimes you're going to bump into
Speaker 1: a person in the world who you find attractive.
Speaker 3: That's but do you not see the difference between finding
Speaker 3: someone attractive and having a crush on them?
Speaker 1: Because for me, they're two totally different things.
Speaker 3: And the gray area is everyone's definition on what acting
Speaker 3: on it means. And I feel like acting on someone
Speaker 3: you find attractive is developing a crush for them and
Speaker 3: then that being your person that you constantly have a
Speaker 3: crush on.
Speaker 1: So we need to move to when it really when.
Speaker 1: This can be a very bright line, right Obviously for
Speaker 1: anyone who's got history of betrayal or their relationship or
Speaker 1: they did get cheated on, maybe more than once by
Speaker 1: someone who dismissed their fears around crushing. Obviously, it's a
Speaker 1: big red flag, but some people actively like it, which
Speaker 1: brings us to Nicki Glazer. Right. So, Nicki Glazer is
Speaker 1: the American comic who has hosted the Golden Globes twice.
Speaker 1: She's going to do it again next year. She's having
Speaker 1: a big moment and she's got a new stand up
Speaker 1: special coming out, so she's doing the rounds of the
Speaker 1: long form podcasts. I think this week she's been on
Speaker 1: Dak Shepherd. She's been on Call Her Daddy with Alex Cooper,
Speaker 1: and she this is not the first time, but she
Speaker 1: talks openly, and she has done for years now, about
Speaker 1: the fact that she really really likes other women desiring
Speaker 1: her partner, and that for her it's a big turn
Speaker 1: on and a kink, so much so that she wants
Speaker 1: to hear stories of those twists, and then she sometimes
Speaker 1: wants him to go off and have them so that
Speaker 1: he can come back and tell us stuff. She says,
Speaker 1: it's called a hot husband fetish, and she openly says
Speaker 1: she loves it.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 1: Here's what she said about that.
Speaker 6: In a relationship, I don't really care if my boyfriend
Speaker 6: were to hook up, Yeah, I we need to talk
Speaker 6: about that, but that is not a two way street.
Speaker 6: Like I'm not someone who likes to hook up when
Speaker 6: I'm in a relationship, but I don't care if someone
Speaker 6: else were to hold on. In fact, I kind of
Speaker 6: like it.
Speaker 7: Do you think, though, that this is you being a
Speaker 7: very very evolved, mature human being or does this fall
Speaker 7: in the category of like kind of like dark comedian
Speaker 7: shit where you're like, and I want to be clear,
Speaker 7: it is not pick me. You call this the hot
Speaker 7: husband fetters, yeah, which is essentially when you want your
Speaker 7: partner to have sexual experiences with other people outside of
Speaker 7: the relationship.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 6: It would make me like horny to like think about
Speaker 6: him doing that with other girls, And then I would
Speaker 6: so I ask about all of his like girlfriends or
Speaker 6: anyone he had hooked up with, like all the details
Speaker 6: about it, and I would really be like a for
Speaker 6: play for me, Like I would get like revved up
Speaker 6: talking about it. Maybe it's my competitive nature. I'm like,
Speaker 6: I want a guy who other girls want, Like I
Speaker 6: like something that is, like, you know, you want a
Speaker 6: handbag that other girls are like, Oh my god, I'm
Speaker 6: dying to get that that's relatable.
Speaker 1: No one ever wants to believe that's true. Whenever she
Speaker 1: talks about this, you'll get a million comments from people saying, well, shit,
Speaker 1: she's just trying to be a cool girl. What a
Speaker 1: load of nonsense? Or playing with fire sister, et cetera,
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. What do we think about that?
Speaker 4: Because I think, in the context of the article and
Speaker 4: the idea of kind of an innocent crush, the thing
Speaker 4: that makes me feel safe about it and that gives
Speaker 4: reassurance is that you're joking about it and this and
Speaker 4: it's transparent.
Speaker 2: Secrets of the problem, yes, secrets of the problem.
Speaker 4: And so when I think about Nicki Glazer, I'm like, okay,
Speaker 4: But she does say that the she's very clear about
Speaker 4: what she would consider emotional cheating, and basically she's like,
Speaker 4: if he was watching the wire with someone that would
Speaker 4: I would be hot broken.
Speaker 1: I entirely agree with that. That's that definition of betrayal.
Speaker 1: Watching the wire, playing word or she says, sending memes
Speaker 1: is a much bigger betrayal in her mind than them
Speaker 1: having sex with somebody else wants off with protection.
Speaker 4: And it does I do find it interesting when it
Speaker 4: goes one way, when it's when it's the idea of
Speaker 4: him being comfortable her being comfortable with him going off
Speaker 4: and having other sexual encounters. And she says that she
Speaker 4: doesn't want that at all. Maybe true, but it's.
Speaker 1: That's the one way monogamy that the Maniscare people talk
Speaker 1: a lot in the Louis Tharu document.
Speaker 4: Be very happy that a woman saying that she loves
Speaker 4: they would love it. And how do you feel about
Speaker 4: one way monogamy?
Speaker 2: I'm sure you love it just what you said.
Speaker 3: My experience, though I don't believe in the hot husband
Speaker 3: fetish I think, and I don't know anything about Nikki Glaser,
Speaker 3: but from that definition, I think it's someone who doesn't
Speaker 3: find their partner physically attractive and they're looking for proof
Speaker 3: that he is.
Speaker 1: Wow. Well, actually, it's interesting you say that because one
Speaker 1: of her quotes is and I think this shows enormous
Speaker 1: self awareness. She says, I like my boyfriend to at
Speaker 1: least entertaining that I do have been with the people
Speaker 1: blah blah. I want things that other people want. So
Speaker 1: she freely admits that she likes, she covets things that
Speaker 1: other people covet and I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: feel that way, but they don't say it out loud.
Speaker 1: To my point, it's fine to be single, just do it.
Speaker 4: It's fine the opposite if I mean, it's a little
Speaker 4: bit funny. I guess if you go out and somebody
Speaker 4: tries to hit on your partner and you're like, but
Speaker 4: but I would be so happy with being the only
Speaker 4: person in the world who find him attractive, do you
Speaker 4: know what I mean?
Speaker 2: I find something romantic about that.
Speaker 4: But Nicki Glazer says that she's really competitive and that
Speaker 4: she wants to win, and it's like, he's not gonna
Speaker 4: leave me for you.
Speaker 2: So but I yeah, I also don't relate to that
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 1: I think it's really honest because I think that a
Speaker 1: lot of us want things that other people want, and
Speaker 1: that's where status comes from, right, Like, something doesn't have
Speaker 1: status if you're the only person who likes it. And
Speaker 1: I think that applying that really openly to your romantic
Speaker 1: slash sex life, I mean, it's a particular thing. It's
Speaker 1: not my thing, as you say. In fact, I always
Speaker 1: think when I see people going out with really objectively
Speaker 1: can preventionally beautiful people who turn ahead in a room.
Speaker 1: I think that would be so stressful. That would be
Speaker 1: so stressful going out with that person and knowing that
Speaker 1: everybody wants to. Luckily, it's not a problem I've had.
Speaker 4: Say Holly, when Brent won his gone competition, Oh well
Speaker 4: did that?
Speaker 2: Did you attract me?
Speaker 1: What's funny is that? So you know I'm not It
Speaker 1: isn't my thing to want things other people want. I'm
Speaker 1: much more likely to go sure have it. But there
Speaker 1: was a time in our lives when we were living
Speaker 1: in Sydney, and because Brent's off most often been the
Speaker 1: primary carer in our house, right, there was a period
Speaker 1: of time wherever the school mom's at our primary school
Speaker 1: thought that he was a single dad because they've never
Speaker 1: seen me. Make of that what you will, my friends.
Speaker 1: But one time he and I were doing something out
Speaker 1: the front of our unit and this woman came past
Speaker 1: and she said to me, and Brent was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you haven't met my partner, Holly. And she was a
Speaker 1: school mum and she goes, oh, I don't know you
Speaker 1: had to partner.
Speaker 2: With this kind of look like that.
Speaker 1: I suddenly went like, oh she likes you. She's like
Speaker 1: i'n't telling my husband, you're my crush. Yes, I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: she likes you. Was I upset about it?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: Was?
Speaker 1: I threatened?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 1: But then I think it.
Speaker 3: Kind of turn you on a little bit.
Speaker 1: What I thought it was hilarious, which is a very
Speaker 1: long term relationship dynamic that I'm sure sometimes really pisses
Speaker 1: people off, like, oh, you think it's so funny that
Speaker 1: they think I'm attractive. I think that there are all
Speaker 1: kinds of weird dynamics when you've been with someone a
Speaker 1: long time that I think this all plays into you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, And it can be dangerous territory
Speaker 1: as I said before, like it can be playing with
Speaker 1: fire if you're the one thinking you're so secure in
Speaker 1: your relationship but you're actually not, and the person the
Speaker 1: other person is going, yeah, that school mum thinks I'm
Speaker 1: hot and I've got a crush on her, and you,
Speaker 1: you know, take me for granted on too many times
Speaker 1: and you'll find out what that is a dynamic that
Speaker 1: could be playing out and you don't know. But I
Speaker 1: think the alternative world where we all just pretend that
Speaker 1: once we've found our person, all our senses closed down
Speaker 1: and we are now only sexual in relationship to that
Speaker 1: one other person is a fake dynamic. You know what
Speaker 1: I mean. In a moment, why need to get yourself
Speaker 1: a sovereign hobby? But to be honest, you probably can't.
Speaker 1: Flirting with your coworkers does not count a hobby. Flirting
Speaker 1: could be your hobby. Just saying hobbies are very hot
Speaker 1: right now, interest in and search is for information about
Speaker 1: hobbies are up a staggering percentage, and the reason is simple.
Speaker 1: Everybody is looking for things to do that render them
Speaker 1: physically incapable of being able to hold a phone. The
Speaker 1: algorithms are we are powerless in the face of them.
Speaker 1: All know that they're stronger than we are. But one
Speaker 1: way to help our addiction is to actually physically do
Speaker 1: something else. Remember you talked about a while ago, am
Speaker 1: your analog bag? Yes, my analog bag. Haven't touched it
Speaker 1: in four months. I think I talked about it on
Speaker 1: a subscriber episode. But it was a concept of leaving
Speaker 1: your house with the bag of analog things. So no phone,
Speaker 1: no laptop, no iPad. I had my coloring book in there,
Speaker 1: I had my camera in there, had my journal in there.
Speaker 1: That's where I landed with my hobby. You're on trend
Speaker 1: because sales of board games through the roof, sales of
Speaker 1: yarn for crocheting and knitting are up like more than
Speaker 1: a thousand percent. Everybody is like looking for hobbies and
Speaker 1: then that is everywhere, like what's going on?
Speaker 3: They are, where's my yard?
Speaker 1: They are? They're like price of yard. Not funny, not funny.
Speaker 1: We spoke about friction maxing earlier this year too, and
Speaker 1: the people are saying that hobbies that require friction, like
Speaker 1: pottery or gardening, because the effort required is the exact
Speaker 1: opposite of what you get from a passive scroll. So
Speaker 1: all these things are suddenly really interesting to everybody. But
Speaker 1: it's not always easy to get a hobby, particularly if
Speaker 1: you are a woman. It turns out there's a sub
Speaker 1: stack that we read this week by It's called the
Speaker 1: Undertow the Substack, and the writer is known as Astrid,
Speaker 1: and she writes about the gender split of hobbies, shares
Speaker 1: most of us women organized leisure around whatever time remains
Speaker 1: after obligations have been satisfied family work, errands, social duties. First,
Speaker 1: we take the time that is then left and maybe
Speaker 1: squeeze a hobby into that. Women have been steered towards
Speaker 1: hobbies that happen when life allows them, but men get
Speaker 1: to pursue hobbies that require life to move aside. Broadly,
Speaker 1: her thesis is this, there are four different types of hobbies.
Speaker 1: Right there is the relational hobby, which she says are
Speaker 1: things like and we're going to get to whether or
Speaker 1: not these things are really hobbies or if we've just
Speaker 1: been convinced they are things like book groups, youth sport coaching,
Speaker 1: faith groups, volunteering, PTA, that kind of stuff, p and c.
Speaker 1: That kind of stuff which is not a hobby. I'll
Speaker 1: just say it. But she calls those relational hobbies domestic hobbies,
Speaker 1: which are knitting, baking, gardening, decluttering, interior design, sewing, things
Speaker 1: at home, meal prep, that kind of stuff, holiday decorating.
Speaker 1: That's not that's no.
Speaker 2: For Megan Markle, it is oh.
Speaker 1: That's true. That's true. For restorative hobbies, yoga, running, photography, journaling, oh,
Speaker 1: DUELINGO you podcast listening? You are you are indulging in
Speaker 1: your hobby right now, everybody hilates crosswords. Those are restorative hobbies.
Speaker 1: Those are fun. Sovereign hobbies are at the top of
Speaker 1: the tree, and they are the ones that require life
Speaker 1: to move around them. So think surfing, think golfing, think diving,
Speaker 1: high king, long distance running, long distance cycling, rock climbing,
Speaker 1: and a thing though every like middle aged man life crisis. Yes,
Speaker 1: but the reason they are sovereign hobbies is because, as
Speaker 1: she Astriid writes, they require extended, unbroken time specific conditions,
Speaker 1: often travel and equipment. They do not wait for a
Speaker 1: convenient window. They claim one, so they go in this matrix.
Speaker 1: If your sovereign hobby is surfing, which is a great example,
Speaker 1: you're like, I'm going for a surf on Saturday morning,
Speaker 1: and I'm carving out my hour for that, and that
Speaker 1: will always happen no matter what.
Speaker 4: Well, or you're at home, you check the surf at
Speaker 4: a time that may be inconvenient to everyone else. Turns
Speaker 4: out the surf is good, and you go, well, I
Speaker 4: have to go right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now is the moment.
Speaker 4: Whereas obviously something like pilates, when you've got a million
Speaker 4: classes to choose from, or you can do it at home,
Speaker 4: you're not kind of it's not dictated by outward conditions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So sovereign hobbies kind of have to happen when
Speaker 1: they happen. They often take longer. They can't just be
Speaker 1: squeezed into pockets of time. What kind of hobbies do
Speaker 1: we have? Do we have any sovereign hobbies at the table?
Speaker 1: I don't think we do, do we?
Speaker 4: No? Mine are all mine all fit into the category.
Speaker 4: Which is interesting because the way Asterroid has done this
Speaker 4: matrix like a quadrant. Yeah, it's a quadrant, and on
Speaker 4: one side are self directed and on the other side
Speaker 4: are other directed.
Speaker 2: So the other directed.
Speaker 4: Ones were things like the P and C group clubs,
Speaker 4: but also book clubs, but also the knitting and the
Speaker 4: gardening and all that because it's usually benefits somebody else.
Speaker 4: All of mine are ones that only benefit me. But
Speaker 4: adapting to life, not the hobby kind of dictating life.
Speaker 4: So things like reading. I'm looking at the others. I'm
Speaker 4: like reading, reading, podcast, listening, going for a walk.
Speaker 1: They're like, see a lot of these things. I don't
Speaker 1: think a hobby. Going for sometimes you just have to
Speaker 1: do that so much. Definition of a hobby, right, is
Speaker 1: an activity, interest, or pastime that is undertaken for pleasure
Speaker 1: or relaxation, typically during one's leisure time.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: And one of the points of friction here is what
Speaker 1: leisure time you have available to you and whether or
Speaker 1: not you claim it. Yeah, you know, because for example,
Speaker 1: saying that cooking is a hobby, which is in the
Speaker 1: domestic sphere here, baking is in there. If you have
Speaker 1: to cook dinner seven nights a week, which many many
Speaker 1: people do, that's not a hobby. That doesn't feel like
Speaker 1: a hobby. But if you love it and you're spending
Speaker 1: your Sunday afternoon trying to perfect a particular recipe and
Speaker 1: you're getting a lot of pleasure out of it, that's
Speaker 1: a hobby, right if you're doing it because you don't
Speaker 1: kind of have to. And it's funny because obviously I
Speaker 1: do have a hobby now, which is gardening, but I
Speaker 1: would never have had a I've never been a hobby.
Speaker 1: I would have said for most of my life that
Speaker 1: my life is just like work and socializing and reading. Right,
Speaker 1: like reading, I don't think counts as a hobby because
Speaker 1: it's just air. You have to do it right as
Speaker 1: a new but that's if you're a wordy person like
Speaker 1: I love. I've always read, and then as I had
Speaker 1: a family, my life was like work, family, socializing and
Speaker 1: there wasn't any room for hobbies. But now I'm in
Speaker 1: a season where I can have a hobby. But I
Speaker 1: wonder if I had a sovereign hobby, I would have
Speaker 1: always always prioritized that hobby whatever the rest of my
Speaker 1: life looks like.
Speaker 3: I wonder if it comes down to what you choose
Speaker 3: from the get go, because I'm looking at the restorative hobbies,
Speaker 3: which I think I do a lot of, but they
Speaker 3: could very easily transition into sovereign hobbies.
Speaker 1: Especially I guess if you're.
Speaker 3: A single person, then you have no other responsibilities which
Speaker 3: I don't have, and no responsibilities. So if I'm interested
Speaker 3: in photography or running, for example, they could start as
Speaker 3: restorative hobbies where they adapt to my life. But I
Speaker 3: could easily get really into photography and do photography courses
Speaker 3: and then set myself or let's have to take all
Speaker 3: these photos every single day, and that could easily photography
Speaker 3: trip photography trips, and that could easily become where my
Speaker 3: hobby has to well, my life has to then adapt
Speaker 3: to my hobby. I think what is selfish is like
Speaker 3: if you do have all of these other responsibilities like relationships,
Speaker 3: taking care of parents, taking care of kids, and from
Speaker 3: the get go, you pick a sovereign hobby without allowing
Speaker 3: it to grow first. But at the same point, when
Speaker 3: it comes to dating, if you're single, I think if
Speaker 3: you start dating someone who already has a sovereign hobby
Speaker 3: in their life, that's going to have to be the
Speaker 3: life you just have to live with. I don't think
Speaker 3: you can tell them that they have to change that
Speaker 3: if that's already their life.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I like, I'm in two minds because on
Speaker 4: the one hand, I found this piece of writing really profound,
Speaker 4: as somebody who has a dad who played golf my
Speaker 4: whole childhood and now has a husband who quite enjoys
Speaker 4: playing golf. And I've always tried to articulate why I
Speaker 4: find golf to be the most indulgent hobby of all,
Speaker 4: which is what women spends six hours on a Sunday
Speaker 4: on a Saturday or Sunday, and then there's all this equipment,
Speaker 4: and there's just all the clothes and the bags. It's
Speaker 4: just it's just a sad to me. So this helped
Speaker 4: me kind of find the language around something like golf
Speaker 4: and why I find it so frustrating that a lot
Speaker 4: of men, and more men than women play golf, although
Speaker 4: women's involvement is rising, but it is a thing of that.
Speaker 2: Men will go and do this six hour hobby.
Speaker 4: But the other thing is that Astroid makes the point
Speaker 4: in the article that with a lot of these sovereign hobbies,
Speaker 4: they're actually a little bit hostile to women. So for example,
Speaker 4: if you go I worked at a golf club for
Speaker 4: years and years, the golf environment is hostile to women.
Speaker 2: There's only the one that I worked out.
Speaker 4: There was one day women could one one week day
Speaker 4: and the weekends that women could play.
Speaker 1: Are you kidding men?
Speaker 2: You could play all the days then.
Speaker 4: And then the biggest controversy ever was the Masters, which
Speaker 4: has just been on. There was this big Master's breakfast
Speaker 4: that they'd all come in early and watch the Masters
Speaker 4: and then play golf, and women were invited to the Masters.
Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on. So I'm a woman who wants
Speaker 1: to play golf Tuesdays and lots of women who get
Speaker 1: to a different season in their life play golf. I'm
Speaker 1: not allowed to play golf at your golf club.
Speaker 4: You can't play whenever you want, your man.
Speaker 1: I am really outraged that your wonderful mother allowed this to.
Speaker 2: My mom.
Speaker 1: Although I listen to me, I'm like, women get to
Speaker 1: say no, no, you can't.
Speaker 4: Well, Mom brought my brothers when they were newborns, brought
Speaker 4: them to visit Dad, and somebody said, are they.
Speaker 1: Boys or girls? Oh no?
Speaker 2: And golf is changing.
Speaker 4: I will say that there are a lot of brilliant
Speaker 4: women who are changing the culture.
Speaker 1: Our boss plays golf nat But in terms of maybe
Speaker 1: if you want to be a CEO, maybe you play golf.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: My mom actually has a great golfing hack because when
Speaker 3: me and my sister were young kids, Dad got really
Speaker 3: into golf. He was gone every Saturday and then was
Speaker 3: at the driving range some afternoons. And then one day
Speaker 3: he got home and he saw my mom and she
Speaker 3: had a new set of golf clubs and a fit,
Speaker 3: and she's like, I'm coming with.
Speaker 1: You to the sovereign hobby. Joined the sovereign hobby.
Speaker 4: Is the hack a shared sovereign hobby? I think that
Speaker 4: that's and it's like a band and the children.
Speaker 1: And then she was great at it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you turned out fine, fine.
Speaker 4: And I loved Astrod putting words around this, which is
Speaker 4: that basically there's a gravitational pull behind this whole matrix,
Speaker 4: which is that men feel entitled to their time in
Speaker 4: a way women don't, and that women feel like their
Speaker 4: time either has to be productive or serving somebody else.
Speaker 4: It's not simply to say I did that thing because
Speaker 4: I wanted to. Is not something that comes naturally to
Speaker 4: a lot of women. I don't think like Holly for
Speaker 4: the last obviously being in a different kind of season now,
Speaker 4: but even with your writing, it kind of you started
Speaker 4: that when your kids were a little bit older.
Speaker 2: Do you think I think it's hard, Like, I totally.
Speaker 1: Hear what you're saying, and I agree. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think it's outrageous that there's like that, especially in a
Speaker 1: season where you've got little kids and big family demands.
Speaker 1: If somebody's like going I just disappear every Saturday for
Speaker 1: four to six hours and we will not be negotiating it,
Speaker 1: that's outrageous to me, right. But on the other hand,
Speaker 1: I think maybe we wish rather than railing against it,
Speaker 1: we should probably just do it as well, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. I mean, it's not practical, like many
Speaker 1: things in life, depending what season you're in. But I
Speaker 1: think that what I've learned about hobbies, I think if
Speaker 1: it's complicated because of your relationship with work, So if
Speaker 1: I always have worked really hard, really loved my job,
Speaker 1: and then I decided I wanted to start writing books.
Speaker 1: I had little kids. I had to shove that into
Speaker 1: different pockets of the day. And that's like, but that
Speaker 1: is a selfish, indulgent thing to do. You can say, oh, well,
Speaker 1: it's good because you're going to earn money from it
Speaker 1: and that will benefit the family, and dah da da
Speaker 1: da da, and that's true, but really realistically, not enough
Speaker 1: to put any food on the table. And now that
Speaker 1: I have another hobby, which is gardening, which again I
Speaker 1: would like to think put food on the table, But
Speaker 1: like every now and again there's like a potato offering
Speaker 1: in them. Look what I look at a one cucumber
Speaker 1: for dinner. But like, these are selfish pursuits, and I
Speaker 1: think that women are bad at naming that, like because
Speaker 1: but then we have this whole cloudy thing about how
Speaker 1: we know that for our own mental well being we
Speaker 1: do have to do some things for ourselves. And the
Speaker 1: thing that has surprised me the most about having a
Speaker 1: proper hobby that isn't just work or wine with my friends,
Speaker 1: which was basically my primary hobby for many years and
Speaker 1: still is sometimes is it's been completely life changing, like
Speaker 1: in that I've never given myself permission before to do
Speaker 1: something just because I want to do it, and that
Speaker 1: it really makes me happy. And there's all these studies
Speaker 1: about and this isn't just about gardening. It's about any
Speaker 1: kind of passion of yours that you indulge. How it
Speaker 1: releases you know what an amazing stress reliever it is.
Speaker 1: Because I've learned about active rest. We've talked about that
Speaker 1: on the show before. I'm not necessarily a good you know,
Speaker 1: a good person just lying down on the couch for hours.
Speaker 1: I mean, if I've got a good book, but there's
Speaker 1: something about being able to move while you're relaxing. It's
Speaker 1: given me more mental space, It's made me calmer, it's
Speaker 1: made me happier. You get awe from it because you
Speaker 1: watch you know, there's just a seed in the dirt,
Speaker 1: and then there's a thing, and then there's a thing.
Speaker 1: So you're like ticking a lot of boxes for happiness
Speaker 1: that I I didn't know, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And so I think that if surfing, for example, gives
Speaker 1: you those same things, which it definitely does for lots
Speaker 1: of people, exercise, space, time to yourself, community, or why
Speaker 1: should you not do that?
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: I kind of think that. I think it's I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think if I like, I wonder if sometimes we
Speaker 1: can be very women, particularly in a family stage of life.
Speaker 1: We are very martyrish about this stuff, so I couldn't possibly.
Speaker 1: I would never I have to put everybody else's needs
Speaker 1: above my own. And yes you do, but we probably
Speaker 1: would all benefit from grabbing an hour or two of
Speaker 1: a sovereign hobby and going non negotiable, non negotiable this
Speaker 1: Saturday morning. But it's funny because gardening definitely is a
Speaker 1: domestic hobby run a sovereign one. Because I was thinking
Speaker 1: about when I get to do it, it makes me so happy.
Speaker 1: But whether or not I get to do it depends
Speaker 1: on all the things that are going on, both in
Speaker 1: the house and in work, so it's still adapted to
Speaker 1: I would very rarely say, oh, I can't take my
Speaker 1: kid to football on Saturday because that's gardening time.
Speaker 3: And do you think two people in a relationship can
Speaker 3: both have sovereign hobbies at the same time.
Speaker 2: I think that's the ideal.
Speaker 1: I think it would be good if you could, because
Speaker 1: I think that what you when I have had a
Speaker 1: sovereign hobby, Like so as I say, I don't really
Speaker 1: haven't really had hobbies before, but over my life, exercises
Speaker 1: played different roles, so like sometimes it's barely there at all.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'd be like I'm doing boot camp. Sometimes I'm
Speaker 1: like committing to yoga. And there was a period where
Speaker 1: I was training for half marathons and the kids were
Speaker 1: really little. When I think about it, Billy was one.
Speaker 1: And the thing about you, Yeah, the thing that was
Speaker 1: good about that is it was non negotiable because I
Speaker 1: was doing it with a group of people. It was
Speaker 1: a charity run. This is why those kind of things
Speaker 1: are good, right, structure, commitment, accountability. I had to be
Speaker 1: on Wednesday nights at the track at six and I'd
Speaker 1: be home by seven thirty. But that and so that
Speaker 1: becomes a sovereign hobby rather than if I'm at home
Speaker 1: just going I want to go for a run, but
Speaker 1: I can't because it's been a time that kid's crying whatever.
Speaker 1: Like I think that sometimes sovereign hobby can be a
Speaker 1: clever manipulation of making it happen, because then that meant
Speaker 1: that Wednesday nights and Saturday mornings early were blacked out
Speaker 1: of the family calendar?
Speaker 2: And do you have sovereign hobbies?
Speaker 1: I feel like I should, like I have no other responsibilities.
Speaker 1: Maybe I should think you should. Should I take up
Speaker 1: long distance cycling or rock climbing.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I've fated way too many men who enter rock climbing.
Speaker 1: Not for me. I used to date all these rock
Speaker 1: climbing guys and they had really good shoulders. But you
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time sitting at the bottom of cliffs.
Speaker 3: Podcast Two Broke Chicks posted on their Instagram a list
Speaker 3: of things women do that make it look like they
Speaker 3: have their shit together. So the title of the post
Speaker 3: was does she have a shit together? Or does she
Speaker 3: just dot dot dot? And here's a list? Does she
Speaker 3: have a shit together? Or does she just own a
Speaker 3: white T shirt without makeup stains?
Speaker 1: That is so impressive because every time you take it off,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get a stain on it.
Speaker 2: Well, it's that, it's the makeup stains.
Speaker 4: And it's also I reckon, I have eight white T
Speaker 4: shirts that aren't the right white anymore.
Speaker 2: I don't do this whole white.
Speaker 4: Wash, keeping your white white, keeping your white white.
Speaker 1: Oh you should be doing it and then someone try.
Speaker 2: And bleach them and it still doesn't work.
Speaker 4: No, no, anyway, I think, have a white T shirt,
Speaker 4: have a functional white tea.
Speaker 3: Shir have Pepe Sayer butter in her fridge.
Speaker 1: Oh that's that fancy butter with the guy with the
Speaker 1: big nose on there. I do you even get that
Speaker 1: fancy shops I had at a lex Because I'mlato, you
Speaker 1: do not have you literally did not have your shit together.
Speaker 2: Don't have it together.
Speaker 1: All wear loafers. I don't look good in them. I'm
Speaker 1: some loafers last year I tried to make them happen.
Speaker 1: I'm not put together enough to pull off the loafer.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm a servant in Game of Thrones.
Speaker 2: I haven't seen you in loafers.
Speaker 4: The other thing is because I would see a pair
Speaker 4: of like cheap loafers, but then I go to put
Speaker 4: them with an outfit, and it's like Clay, you don't
Speaker 4: own a loafer outfit, a loafer appropriate outfit. You know
Speaker 4: who has loafer appropriate outfits? Well, you can from your
Speaker 4: beauty and nothing to wear. She's a trench girl, she's
Speaker 4: a guru. She's a loafer girls.
Speaker 1: She's also a trench girl, because I think the same
Speaker 1: thing about trench coats. I really gadget, I really like them,
Speaker 1: but they look so classy and French on some people.
Speaker 1: And then I tried one on this week and it
Speaker 1: just made me. It made me look like a janitor
Speaker 1: that someone might get arrested at school.
Speaker 2: It looks like I'm wearing a blanket.
Speaker 1: I know it's really appropriate.
Speaker 3: Okay, what about wash her makeup brushes. I've started doing
Speaker 3: this lately, so shit together, hobby.
Speaker 1: Well, the reason why I did is because I kept
Speaker 1: getting lots of spots. Yeah, that's probably why I got
Speaker 1: my style. To be honest, I've been indoctrinated by the
Speaker 1: Internet to use brushes instead of sponges now and I
Speaker 1: put makeup on and I don't know if it's any good.
Speaker 1: I don't know what do I know? But then I
Speaker 1: started getting a lot of spots, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I think maybe it's because my brushes are disgusting. So
Speaker 1: I've started to wash them on the weekend every weekend,
Speaker 1: let them air out. And so do I finally have
Speaker 1: my shit together? I think you do.
Speaker 2: I think you do.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: My hack is you use a brush and then you go, hmm,
Speaker 4: this brush has blush on it, but I need it
Speaker 4: for foundation, So then you just kind of like rub
Speaker 4: it against side of your make up bag.
Speaker 1: That's my because socie of your makeup bag is really cleanly,
Speaker 1: really hygienic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, hang her clothes on velvet coat hangers.
Speaker 1: I have that. Oh wow, that's good. But they're the
Speaker 1: cheap ones. So if it's a too heavy a jacket,
Speaker 1: it will break.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but are they felt? What like it's kind of
Speaker 2: you assume it's like wire underneath, but it's.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, yeah, I know, the cheap ones. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: have enough coat hangers, and I never have enough good
Speaker 1: coat hangers. I only have a lot of ship coat.
Speaker 4: People get really mad about how wire coat hangers destroy
Speaker 4: your clothes. How would they distinct you with the shape
Speaker 4: Mia does? But they're destroyed anyway.
Speaker 1: You know, fine, you know, I think you've got your
Speaker 1: ship together because your cat eye is looking amazing. Thank you,
Speaker 1: has a very good wing cat eye today. And I
Speaker 1: think when someone can pull off a really good wing
Speaker 1: and a symmetrical wing, that she's got a ship together.
Speaker 1: I tried really really hard.
Speaker 3: Okay, how about return online shopping within thirty days?
Speaker 1: Absolutely none of us.
Speaker 4: I've actually moved to the point in my life where
Speaker 4: I just wear it doesn't fit, don't like it, I'm
Speaker 4: not going to return it. I cannot afford to be
Speaker 4: buying things that we don't wear, don't have enough coat hangers?
Speaker 3: Can I read some of the things I have on
Speaker 3: my list? This list is basically everything my sister does
Speaker 3: that I don't have a lip gloss attached to her
Speaker 3: key ring.
Speaker 4: Oh wow, I saw one of those who say the
Speaker 4: other day, and I thought, oh, that's amazing.
Speaker 2: And then I got.
Speaker 3: To like, I haven't returned my shopping yet. Carry around
Speaker 3: a fully charged portable charger.
Speaker 1: Oh, this is the problem. So in my life I
Speaker 1: have bought quite a few of those little power bank things.
Speaker 1: But then the power bank things runs out of power.
Speaker 1: Then it's just remember to charge it.
Speaker 2: Whose job is it?
Speaker 1: Not mine? Mine? I need it? That's remember. Charge charged
Speaker 1: power bank in your bag or a charge it in
Speaker 1: your back is like very high level shit together. It's
Speaker 1: so good.
Speaker 3: Okay, keep a craff of cold water in her fridge.
Speaker 1: I do that.
Speaker 4: You do?
Speaker 1: That's one thing? Well, not a craft, but a bottle.
Speaker 1: I always have a couple of bottles of cold tapwater
Speaker 1: in the fridge. I'm the only one in the house
Speaker 1: who fills them up. So when I get home I
Speaker 1: have to being away for a couple of days, they're
Speaker 1: always empty around the kitchen. I do it, and you
Speaker 1: know what, it makes me feel like I've got my
Speaker 1: life together. Yeah, I'm very very impressed.
Speaker 3: When she's serving tea, she gives you a matching saucer
Speaker 3: with your tea cup.
Speaker 1: What so we have Megan's house, Like, what's going on?
Speaker 3: I didn't have space in my kitchen for saucers. Use
Speaker 3: packing cubes in her suitcase.
Speaker 1: Oh that's very life together.
Speaker 3: Shit, Yeah, surely people only ever do that one Okay,
Speaker 3: and last washes her hair when it needs to be washed.
Speaker 1: Who doesn't do that? Yeah, like my hair right now.
Speaker 1: But we already know that you like Tony shower when
Speaker 1: it's absolutely necessary, which I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: When you guys, when you guys always I'm in with
Speaker 3: clean hair, that's always down, I'm like, that's crazy.
Speaker 1: You have your shit together.
Speaker 4: No, I'm very much like I'm always at the point
Speaker 4: where I'm like, hmm, I.
Speaker 2: Wish i'd washed my hair more recently, Like you know
Speaker 2: what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like, no, matter what, every single year, which day are
Speaker 1: we on me? I'm very impressed. This is a very
Speaker 1: high level. You may not even relate people who make
Speaker 1: their own stock like that is amazing. I don't know.
Speaker 1: You can make stock. Oh, anytime you use a barbecue,
Speaker 1: anytime you have a chicken, anytime you have any meat leftover,
Speaker 1: people make their own stock. They bubble it upon the stove. Actually,
Speaker 1: I said barbecue chicken there, but my friend told me
Speaker 1: off making it with barbecued chicken. Why apparently that doesn't work.
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I don't give it. And so,
Speaker 1: but if you make your own stock and then you
Speaker 1: freeze it, and then you put it in like cubes
Speaker 1: in the freezer, and then you've always got it on
Speaker 1: hand for like pasta, sauces soups. When I am doing that,
Speaker 1: you will know I have like elevated to some higher places.
Speaker 4: But my question with a lot of these things, and
Speaker 4: that in particular, is is it worth it eighteen hundreds?
Speaker 2: You can buy stock?
Speaker 1: No, but a it's much nicer, is it, actually? And
Speaker 1: it's healthy because you know exactly what's in it. Not
Speaker 1: that I care about that really, but you know, and
Speaker 1: you don't always need a big thing of stock. Sometimes
Speaker 1: you just need a little thing of stock. In my dreams,
Speaker 1: my freezer is full of stock. It's stock, just soup.
Speaker 1: Stock is kind of soup, but it's what you use
Speaker 1: to make soup chicken many liquids. Is stock soup? Well, yes,
Speaker 1: but no, you need stock if you're going to make soup,
Speaker 1: if you're going to make a nice pasta sauce. It's
Speaker 1: really good to cook rice and cusscous in it. So
Speaker 1: you look at me up. Also, I think when it
Speaker 1: comes to parents snacks, I was always very impressed by
Speaker 1: the woman who or man who had a bag full
Speaker 1: of healthy snacks.
Speaker 2: It's and it becomes a bit of a flex you go.
Speaker 4: Really does someone's like, oh, here's the little lunch box
Speaker 4: on my child, And I'm like, oh, I was just.
Speaker 2: Gonna go to the shop and get Matilda a muffin
Speaker 2: my snackl Yeah, exactly, Okay.
Speaker 4: Mine are owning a blazer that fits and is still
Speaker 4: the right shape.
Speaker 2: I've never ever I saw a video.
Speaker 4: On Mumma's Socials yesterday, I think from one of the
Speaker 4: hosts of Nothing to Wear, and she was wearing this
Speaker 4: blazer and I looked at it and thought, why have
Speaker 4: I never been able to nail a blazer?
Speaker 2: And I was like the.
Speaker 3: Hard to wear though I have like so many blazers,
Speaker 3: all wrong. The only one that fits me is bright orange.
Speaker 4: But I've never been able to nail a blazer. And
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's like my proportions. But also
Speaker 4: it's like as soon as I buy it, it gets shoved
Speaker 4: somewhere and then I forget the.
Speaker 2: Shoulder pads, go cook it.
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna try and nail a blazer this winter.
Speaker 1: We should all try it because it is a very
Speaker 1: good like the climate we live in, which is a
Speaker 1: very cold, but it's cold enough like it's a good
Speaker 1: transitional piece. Look at me, Campbell. But I never it's
Speaker 1: always I'm not quite right with it. But I think
Speaker 1: this is my year. I think I'm going to try
Speaker 1: to pull out all the blazers from my cupboard and
Speaker 1: try and wear them. Yeah, oversized blazer are still in.
Speaker 1: We're going back to fitted. You're asking them, right, I
Speaker 1: need to know. I need to know.
Speaker 2: No, I think they are.
Speaker 4: But oversized again only works on people with their ship together.
Speaker 4: Otherwise it's like, why do you buy a blazer that's
Speaker 4: too big.
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like, are you three little children standing?
Speaker 2: Yes? I am, Yes, I am most of the time.
Speaker 4: And the other parenting thing with having your shit together
Speaker 4: is the parents who have everything labeled. I have nothing,
Speaker 4: Like what do you need labeled? Drink bottles, hats, socks, clothes, everything.
Speaker 1: Everything you send your kid to, like with lunch box.
Speaker 2: All of that.
Speaker 4: So I have, Yeah, you don't know whether that's turned up,
Speaker 4: but I have taken home another child's drink bottle because
Speaker 4: and it's completely on me because I haven't labeled anything.
Speaker 2: But then I'm like, is this a hack because free
Speaker 2: drink bottle?
Speaker 4: Well, I'll no, it's Matilda's because it's not true.
Speaker 5: My kid.
Speaker 1: This is one of the perks that being a hot
Speaker 1: mess mother.
Speaker 4: Exactly after the break, our recommendations of what to watch
Speaker 4: as the weather's getting a little bit chillier.
Speaker 2: Vibes, ideas atmosphere, something casual, something fun.
Speaker 1: This is my best recommendation.
Speaker 4: It's Friday, so we want to help set up your
Speaker 4: weekend with our best recommendations. I hope you have nothing
Speaker 4: planned because all of these are TV shows. M Do
Speaker 4: you want to go first?
Speaker 1: I'll go first.
Speaker 3: I'm recommending a brand new TV show that came out
Speaker 3: this week. It's called Margo's Got Money Trouble. Anticipated because
Speaker 3: my Big Book, Big Book.
Speaker 1: Sorry, Shoeing a Fly. I was like, what flies here?
Speaker 2: Insane?
Speaker 1: Look at all these plants behind me.
Speaker 3: I'm in a jungle anyway, Big Book by Rufie Thorpe.
Speaker 3: It is one of the funniest books I've ever read,
Speaker 3: and I read it a while ago. So I've been
Speaker 3: really looking forward to this TV show because it has
Speaker 3: a huge cast. Elle Fanning plays Margo, the main character,
Speaker 3: and her parents are played by Nick Offerman and Michelle Phaiffer.
Speaker 1: I love Nick Offerman. He's so funny and if you
Speaker 1: think how a crush on him is that allowed? Yes,
Speaker 1: because he's a celebrity.
Speaker 3: Okay, good, Yeah, But if you think about it, Elle
Speaker 3: Fanning does kind of look like their child.
Speaker 4: It's actually once you pointed that out to me, I
Speaker 4: was like, that is so clever.
Speaker 2: I love casting like that.
Speaker 3: So Elle Fanning plays Margo. She's a girl in her
Speaker 3: late teens early twenties. She dropped out of university because
Speaker 3: she's having a baby and her she's getting advice from
Speaker 3: her parents. Michelle Peiffer and Nick Offerman that's not the name,
Speaker 3: forgot their character's name. But he's like an ex pro wrestler,
Speaker 3: and she's an ex hooter's wage and she's trying to
Speaker 3: find a way to make money because Ren's getting so expensive.
Speaker 3: Her housemates are leaving her because I like this baby
Speaker 3: won't stop crying, So she finds only fans And if
Speaker 3: it's similar to the book where you've only had three
Speaker 3: episodes so far this week, but it seems very similar
Speaker 3: so far. She goes on this wild journey of creating
Speaker 3: an only Fans account and being thrown into that world
Speaker 3: while having a little baby to look after.
Speaker 1: It is so so funny, so good.
Speaker 4: The thing I loved the most about that book, and
Speaker 4: I'm sure the TV show does it as well. It
Speaker 4: is a trojan horse for a really powerful point about
Speaker 4: sex work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you.
Speaker 4: I made some people in my life read it who
Speaker 4: I knew had certain stigmas, and I was like, you
Speaker 4: will come out the other end thinking very differently about
Speaker 4: sex work. So it's funny, but you also feel quite
Speaker 4: quite like you've really walked in someone else's shoes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh gosh.
Speaker 3: And it's also a really good insight into that world
Speaker 3: and how there are so many like content creators on
Speaker 3: only fans. And I think we always have this joke
Speaker 3: of going, oh, I hate work right now, I'm just
Speaker 3: gonna start only fans. I'm like, it's actually really hard
Speaker 3: because like what if you're starting only fans and then
Speaker 3: no one wants to watch you?
Speaker 1: What's it on?
Speaker 3: It is on Apple TV Apple TV first three episodes
Speaker 3: out now and then a weekly drop after that.
Speaker 2: All Right, Mine is also a TV show. It's on
Speaker 2: HBO Max. It is called.
Speaker 4: DTF Saint Louis and it is a dark comedy and
Speaker 4: starring Jason Bateman.
Speaker 1: I also love him, so I also have a crush
Speaker 1: for him. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I heard somebody say, no, so do I in like
Speaker 4: a there's this certain like middle aged married man crush
Speaker 4: that I have.
Speaker 1: Oh he's a wife guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, people say.
Speaker 4: I've heard people say after this show, he's like the
Speaker 4: Jennifer Aniston of acting in that he's always acting Jason Bateman.
Speaker 1: And you know what sidebar, he and Jennifer Anison are
Speaker 1: best friends.
Speaker 2: That's really sweet.
Speaker 1: So they I listen to SmartLess. Sometimes sometimes it' annoying,
Speaker 1: sometimes it's amazing. Bateman's on that, and so I feel
Speaker 1: like I know him in that. I know that he
Speaker 1: is very anally retentive. He's obsessed with cleanliness and germs.
Speaker 1: He's also best bestest friends with Anniston and that whole crowd,
Speaker 1: And if I could transport into another life, I want
Speaker 1: to go around to their house on Sunday afternoons. They
Speaker 1: always get together on Sunday for nooon, have tacos well,
Speaker 1: and they're sober. That's That's the only thing I'm not
Speaker 1: really into. But Aniston makes the margaritas. I think I
Speaker 1: may have sidebarred to me no, but.
Speaker 2: His character in this is giving all of that, and
Speaker 2: that's what I mean about.
Speaker 4: He just always plays Jason Bateman. David Harbor's in it,
Speaker 4: and he's really likable. Oh dear, I know that's Lily
Speaker 4: Allen's bad husband, even though I'm like, but you did
Speaker 4: not eat, but you're lovely anyway.
Speaker 3: What's his like facial hair situation in the show, because
Speaker 3: he changed it up during Stranger Things.
Speaker 4: Dah, He's got a little bit, he's got a big
Speaker 4: mustache and he physically plays this role.
Speaker 1: So we've hijacked without Baitman and everyone's telling me about
Speaker 1: this show.
Speaker 4: So sorry, Linda Cardlini is in it, and every even
Speaker 4: just like little cameo, like there's a Peter Sarsgard. It's
Speaker 4: just like plays quite a peripheral role, like anyway, because
Speaker 4: basically it starts with this friendship between these two guys.
Speaker 2: David Harbor, his.
Speaker 4: Character is a sign language interpreter, which is just fascinating
Speaker 4: to find out all the elements of that job. And
Speaker 4: he's friends with Jason Bateman, who is the weather man.
Speaker 4: But I won't ruin next. I think this happens at
Speaker 4: the end.
Speaker 2: Of the first episode.
Speaker 4: Somebody ends up dead and is called DTF Saint Louis
Speaker 4: because they've been using a dating app called DTS Saint
Speaker 4: Louis and it enables married couples to have affairs.
Speaker 2: So a bit like the Ashley Madison thing.
Speaker 1: Oh so it is because DTO stands for.
Speaker 4: And it's really clever the way the narrative is really nonlinear.
Speaker 4: You know that somebody's dead, but you don't know how,
Speaker 4: you don't know who did it. It takes you in.
Speaker 4: It's really really really twisty. But the thing I love
Speaker 4: the most about it is it is the most original
Speaker 4: piece of television I've seen in so long.
Speaker 2: It is laugh out loud, funny in.
Speaker 4: Bizarre ways, one of those things where you go, how
Speaker 4: did anyone come up with these characters, this plot, this
Speaker 4: weird quirk that this particular character does. Like, it's so
Speaker 4: so so good. The mixture between laugh out loud comedy
Speaker 4: and like a murder mystery reminds me of Deadlock.
Speaker 2: Oh in a way.
Speaker 4: But it is really really original and fresh and I
Speaker 4: absolutely adore it.
Speaker 1: Amazing, And I have another TV show because as I think,
Speaker 1: we've got something for everybody in this selection. This TV
Speaker 1: show is one that I have been waiting to watch
Speaker 1: for ages, but it wasn't available here, and now it is.
Speaker 1: And it's by Sally Wainwright, who.
Speaker 2: Is Happy Valley.
Speaker 1: No relation to me, but I wish she were Happy Valley.
Speaker 1: So Sallly Waynwright is a British TV writer who is
Speaker 1: unbelievably great Happy Valley. She wrote Las Tango and Halifax.
Speaker 1: She sets all her stories in the North of England,
Speaker 1: in Yorkshire. She is just brilliant and she this show
Speaker 1: I've been reading about it for months, called Riot Women,
Speaker 1: and I was like, where can I watch it? Well, friends,
Speaker 1: you can watch it free to air SBS un demand.
Speaker 1: You don't even have to get a new streaming service
Speaker 1: for Is it criming? No, it's not criming. So it's
Speaker 1: about a group of middle aged women who start a
Speaker 1: punk band, and that's why it's called Right Women. And
Speaker 1: it is so good. Don't you dare so ah, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, I'm gonna have to kill you.
Speaker 2: I want you to start a punch.
Speaker 5: They are not cute, they are so it literally starts
Speaker 5: the first episode like like all Sully wayIn writes things,
Speaker 5: it's funny, but.
Speaker 1: It's also dark. So these various women, I think there
Speaker 1: are six women in various stages of problems with their life.
Speaker 1: And you know, it literally starts with someone being interrupted
Speaker 1: in a serious act of self harm by the phone
Speaker 1: ringing and her friend asking or she wants to join
Speaker 1: this punk band. And it's just someone's a teacher, someone's
Speaker 1: a police officer, somebody's a shoplifter, somebody's and they're a
Speaker 1: collection of women, some of her friends, some who are not,
Speaker 1: who come together to join a band for this sort
Speaker 1: of strange reason. And it is so great. It is
Speaker 1: so great because it's written by a woman who doesn't
Speaker 1: go ah about older women, Like it's not patronizing. It
Speaker 1: really gets the complexity of that stage of life. But
Speaker 1: it's also just really funny and she's just such a
Speaker 1: good writer. And it's just relatively recently dropped on SBS
Speaker 1: on demand. There are six parts. It's so great. You
Speaker 1: know what you're going to get. It is a bit
Speaker 1: gritty if you're not if that's not your thing, but
Speaker 1: it is just the dialogue. She writes dialogue better, particularly
Speaker 1: for women, particularly from women from that part of the world,
Speaker 1: better than anybody. And actually some of the episodes were
Speaker 1: directed by this amazing Australian director who died last year
Speaker 1: called Amanda Broadsheet and she has worked with Sally Wayne
Speaker 1: Wright a lot, and so that's amazing to see too,
Speaker 1: and like, it's just great and I think lots of
Speaker 1: out louders will love it.
Speaker 2: It's very sovereign hobby.
Speaker 1: It is very sovereign hobby because these women, most of
Speaker 1: them are like caring for parents with dementia, Various things
Speaker 1: are going on in their life. You know, they're feeling
Speaker 1: that level of invisibility and all those things, and it's
Speaker 1: just yeah, it's great. It's great. So on SBS and Demand,
Speaker 1: it's called Riot Women. Go for your life.
Speaker 2: Out loud as before we go, one.
Speaker 1: More thing this month. We have a very special treat
Speaker 1: for subscribers that might make you want to become a subscriber.
Speaker 1: And it's from bed Threads. Who are They make bedding towels,
Speaker 1: sheets like the best. I love my Bedthreads stuff.
Speaker 3: And it's linen, so the more you wash it, the
Speaker 3: cozier they become.
Speaker 1: And the colors they just they just have the best
Speaker 1: colors of everything, plain, classy, gorgeous, tonal. I love Bedthreads things. Anyway, Well,
Speaker 1: bed Threads are offering one lucky Mamma Mia subscriber two
Speaker 1: thousand dollars to spend across their site. I'm so jealous.
Speaker 1: Can we do it? It's not in the rule do
Speaker 1: you work at mom and Mia. But if you don't
Speaker 1: work at MoMA Mia, which most of you, I assume rules,
Speaker 1: I was like, I want the bed Threads anyway, if
Speaker 1: you were already a subscriber, you are or a in
Speaker 1: the draw to wins, so nothing to do here. But
Speaker 1: if you would like to be in the running to
Speaker 1: win two grand to spend on bed Threads, become a
Speaker 1: subscriber during April and you will be in the chance
Speaker 1: of getting the shopping spree of your life. I'd say exciting.
Speaker 4: That's all we've got time for this Friday out louder Is,
Speaker 4: have a lovely weekend. Thank you for joining us, we
Speaker 4: always have so much fun on a Friday, and a
Speaker 4: big thank you to our team. By Mummer acknowledges the
Speaker 4: traditional owners of the land on which we have recorded
Speaker 4: this podcast.