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Speaker 1: You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on Hello out louders, it's

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Speaker 2: hotly here popping into your feed to tell you about

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Speaker 2: today's Sunday special. Today, I'm bringing you an episode of

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Speaker 2: mid that I did with Alison Bray Daddo. I think

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Speaker 2: you know who she is. She was one of the

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Speaker 2: original supermodels here in Australia and most Generation X women

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Speaker 2: are quite obsessed with her. We had a very honest conversation,

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Speaker 2: not about her modeling career actually, although she's got lots

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Speaker 2: to say about that, about menopause, about long relationships, but

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Speaker 2: actually about what we really think when we look in

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Speaker 2: the mirror. Is it hard when you have been known

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Speaker 2: to be a particularly beautiful woman, and that's how I

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Speaker 2: used to make your living aging, How do you make

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Speaker 2: your decisions about what you are aren't going to do

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Speaker 2: to intervene in that process? How do you feel when

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Speaker 2: you look in the mirror. Alison's really honest about all

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Speaker 2: of that, and I hope you're really going to enjoy

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Speaker 2: this conversation between me and Ali Dado called what have

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Speaker 2: you done to your face, wrinkles and blotches and bits

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Speaker 2: that sag, shadows and creases and crape. My face is changing,

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Speaker 2: and I'm faking being fine with it.

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Speaker 3: Maybe you are too.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure that wasn't there yesterday, I say, peering into

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Speaker 2: the mirror without my bifocal contact lenses with their comforting blur,

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Speaker 2: poking at a crevice, holding up an eyelid, reaching for

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Speaker 2: a tweezer, a potion, a coverall.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes it takes all the will in the world not

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Speaker 3: to want to scrape it off.

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Speaker 2: Stop the change, stop the slide, stop the fold, stop

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Speaker 2: the inevitable, freeze it in time, sand it, smooth it,

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Speaker 2: lift it, fill it.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I will.

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Speaker 2: Maybe if I did that, I wouldn't notice anymore that

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Speaker 2: I'm aging. Maybe fewer lines would distract me from my

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Speaker 2: undulating hormones.

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Speaker 3: That little grunt as I stand up.

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Speaker 2: The advancing migrain, the birthday numbers counting up to nowhere,

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Speaker 2: the days I get to spend with.

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Speaker 3: My people counting down.

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Speaker 2: But also if I do that to try to trick

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Speaker 2: the mirror, then another trap yawns open.

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Speaker 3: Don't you dare look like you're trying too hard?

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Speaker 2: So sad, so desperate, what have you done to your face?

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Speaker 2: So many opinions, so much criticism, so much wasted energy

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Speaker 2: on this little patch of fleshy real estate. Maybe if

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Speaker 2: my face just bloody stopped changing, I could pretend time

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Speaker 2: wasn't passing. The change is accelerating. Today, I'm despairing over

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Speaker 2: an image that I know in a year I will

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Speaker 2: consider impossibly youthful. Well, despairing is a strong word, one

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Speaker 2: I should save for things worthy of distress, illness, and

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Speaker 2: loss and stubbed toes in the dark. But then again,

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Speaker 2: maybe despairing is the right word, because our face is

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Speaker 2: apparently mean so much. They signal to the world where

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Speaker 2: we're up to, near the beginning, near the end, somewhere

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Speaker 2: in the messy mid They signal to the world, apparently,

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Speaker 2: how much we care, how together we are, how well

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Speaker 2: we nurture ourselves. Does an errant eyebrow mean we're messy,

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Speaker 2: an unfilled line that we've given up? Beauty is a

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Speaker 2: beast when you're mid because aging is a privilege, but

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Speaker 2: looking young is everything, the entire world says, So why

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Speaker 2: my mirror asks me, as I peered too close, Do

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Speaker 2: you care about this? You're not a supermodel or a celebrity.

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Speaker 2: Your worth isn't tied to your foreheadlines. You know you're

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Speaker 2: always saying it that getting to bitch about wrinkles is

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Speaker 2: a lottery winning luck so many others would give anything for.

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Speaker 3: You know that, deep in your bones that.

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Speaker 2: These are stripes of pride, blotches of wisdom, folds of experience.

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Speaker 3: Those words are so true it hurts. We all feel it.

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Speaker 2: We didn't get this wise with out knowing about insides

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Speaker 2: versus outsides, and the futility of relentless comparison, or the

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Speaker 2: subtle manipulation of shifting beauty standards. But still, even with

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Speaker 2: all that wisdom, some days the mirror is a fucking bitch.

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Speaker 3: I said it.

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Speaker 2: My face is changing, and I'm busy faking being fine

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Speaker 2: with it.

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Speaker 3: Maybe one day I won't have to fake it at all.

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Speaker 2: The hard fought wisdom that drew those fine lines will

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Speaker 2: settle into every cell of my body, and I'll be

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Speaker 2: comfortable and confident in my serum lathered skin.

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Speaker 3: I can't wait. I'll see you there.

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Speaker 1: Hello. Hello.

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Speaker 2: I am Holly Wainwright, and I am mid mid life,

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Speaker 2: mid family, mid wrinkle panic, and today we're bringing you

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Speaker 2: the last conversation of Mid season two. It has been

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Speaker 2: a ridiculous treat to bring you the conversations we've brought

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Speaker 2: you about sex, money, time, sisters, invisibility, rage, and that

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Speaker 2: big family shift. If you missed any of them, now's

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Speaker 2: your moment. Go back and listen, share them with anyone

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Speaker 2: who needs to hear them. And please, if you love mid,

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Speaker 2: throw us a follow and leave us a review. I

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Speaker 2: know that every podcast you listen to asks you to

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Speaker 2: do that, but.

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Speaker 3: There's a good reason.

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Speaker 2: That's because it helps more people find us, and the

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Speaker 2: more mids, I think you'll agree, the better. But today

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Speaker 2: a treat you might have gathered from my introduction that

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Speaker 2: we are talking about faces and bodies. And at the

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Speaker 2: beginning of this season, I promised you a supermodel. I

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Speaker 2: don't know who you thought was going to walk in

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Speaker 2: here with me, but I know you're going to be

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Speaker 2: delighted to meet her if you haven't already. Alison Bray

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Speaker 2: was the Australian model of the late eighties and early nineties,

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Speaker 2: on every magazine cover and on every teenage girl's wall.

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Speaker 2: She had a huge career here and overseas, and then

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Speaker 2: she married the equally famous and attractive Cameron Daddo and

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Speaker 2: backed right away from the industry, settled in la and

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Speaker 2: raised a family. Now, as Alison Bray Daddo, or Ali

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Speaker 2: as very many of us know her, she's also become

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Speaker 2: just the most honest, interesting voice about midlife and menopause

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Speaker 2: and all the messy challenges it brings us. But today

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Speaker 2: we're not actually talking about that. We're getting deep about

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Speaker 2: surface stuff, beauty, whatever it means to us. And let's

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Speaker 2: be honest, there's a sliding scale of how much any

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Speaker 2: of us can ever claim to have felt beautiful at

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Speaker 2: any age. It's a beast in midlife because how we

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Speaker 2: wear our age on our face and our bodies can

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Speaker 2: feel so important and so crucial to how the outside

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Speaker 2: world sees us. Even as we know that it's really

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Speaker 2: the silliest of all of our concerns, it often doesn't

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Speaker 2: feel that way. So come and talk to me and

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Speaker 2: Ali about how we're feeling about that, what we're doing

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Speaker 2: about that, and where we all stand on the mistakes

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Speaker 2: we've made in thinking and talking about our faces and

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Speaker 2: our bodies.

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Speaker 3: As we've moved on through.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Mid Season two, Episode eight, Beauty with Ali Daddo.

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Speaker 3: Alie.

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Speaker 2: I could talk to you about a million things on

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Speaker 2: mid that our.

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Speaker 3: Audience would love to hear.

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Speaker 2: You talk about menopause obviously, yes, since you've literally written

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Speaker 2: the book Long Marriages and Relationships, because you've literally made podcasts,

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Speaker 2: correct starting a new business in mid like you've recently

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Speaker 2: done that. You're doing all kinds of things. But I

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Speaker 2: asked you here primarily to talk about something that should

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Speaker 2: be beneath us all I think, but actually really gets

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Speaker 2: in our way when we're in this phase of life.

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Speaker 2: What we look like, beauty, body, are faces, all those things.

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Speaker 3: First of all, you're very beautiful.

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Speaker 1: That's very kind. Don't you look amazing?

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Speaker 2: And I know, of course, because i've heard you talk

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Speaker 2: about it lots of times that even when you're a

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Speaker 2: very famous model, that wasn't currency you were particularly interested

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Speaker 2: in and it was quite difficult for you to handle.

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Speaker 3: But do you feel beautiful?

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Speaker 1: I actually feel much more beautiful now than I did

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Speaker 1: when I was modeling. Really yeah, and it's only been

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Speaker 1: a new experience. I still struggle with like looking at

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Speaker 1: my legs or my cellulide or the belly that overhangs

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Speaker 1: the pants and wish that I could wear the clothes

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Speaker 1: that I had, though, there's just a feeling now that

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Speaker 1: I have in myself that is so much more at

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Speaker 1: peace than I was when I was younger and modeling,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't ever expect that that would happen. I

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Speaker 1: was sitting with a group of women and it was

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Speaker 1: a meditation and we were talking about it was sort

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Speaker 1: of like the things that are noise about our bodies

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Speaker 1: or the things we'd want to change. And I sat

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Speaker 1: there and I kind of was like, what do I

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Speaker 1: want to change? Like what am I unhappy with? And

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Speaker 1: I was like, there's things I want to change about

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Speaker 1: how I approach things and how I do some things

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Speaker 1: and how I react to some things. But I did

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Speaker 1: not come up with anything I wanted to change physically.

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Speaker 2: I've heard you talk over the process of this when

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Speaker 2: you released Queen Menopause, and you in that book very

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Speaker 2: honest diary entries of journal entries rather about various stages

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Speaker 2: of this, And so it's been a journey to use

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Speaker 2: it overase word to get to that place.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not there all the time. I'm certainly not

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Speaker 1: there all the time, but I was in that moment

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Speaker 1: and I felt really the joy I felt in that

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Speaker 1: moment was like, oh, have I actually let it all go?

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Speaker 1: Am I actually okay with finally in my physical body.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it wasn't like the glaring list of I

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Speaker 1: wish I had longer legs and you know, smooth skin,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't have that come up at first. So

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Speaker 1: it was interesting.

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Speaker 3: That's so good.

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Speaker 2: When you were a young model, did you ever think

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Speaker 2: about what it would be like to be this age?

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Speaker 3: Were afraid of aging?

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Speaker 1: I was so naive at that age. I didn't really

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Speaker 1: think about sure as hell, didn't think about menopause and

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Speaker 1: even cross my mind. But I looked at my mom

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Speaker 1: and I knew I didn't want her body shape. I

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Speaker 1: remember thinking that I have her exact body shape.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's true.

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Speaker 2: I was thinking about this the other day and this

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Speaker 2: is probably way TMI, But when I was a kid,

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Speaker 2: I was used to talk to my mom when she

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Speaker 2: was in the bath. We were in a naked house,

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Speaker 2: but that was often a place where because she used

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Speaker 2: to have a Bathnili every day.

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Speaker 3: English.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course she'd.

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Speaker 2: Have a bath Neil every day, and that would sometimes

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Speaker 2: be I would go and sit on the toilet seat

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Speaker 2: and talk to her, not you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we'd sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Talk and so Ira would look at her body and

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Speaker 2: I'm ashamed to say, but I did used to think

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Speaker 2: who Yeah, not terrible. And I also used to think

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Speaker 2: that will never be me. There was nothing wrong with

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Speaker 2: my mum's body, let's be clear. Yeah, but I thought

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Speaker 2: that will never be me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, of course it's exactly me. I'm identical to my

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Speaker 1: mother and my mom. I used to pat my mom's

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Speaker 1: tummy and say, you get a baby in there, you're pregnant. Mom.

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Speaker 1: The amount of times I've been asked how far along

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Speaker 1: I am at the age of fifty four is embarrassing.

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Speaker 1: This is truly childhood karma coming back at.

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Speaker 3: Me very much.

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Speaker 2: Look, I'm going to be honest and say that right

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Speaker 2: now if I was going to ask myself that question

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Speaker 2: at the moment, I'm not.

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Speaker 3: Feeling that great about it. Like I think I was

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Speaker 3: feeling better about it.

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Speaker 2: Actually when I turn fifty and now I feel like

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Speaker 2: it all changes really quickly, and my skin tone and

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Speaker 2: your skin texture and all that boring stuff. The things

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Speaker 2: I was doing to keep a handle on my weight

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Speaker 2: seem to not be working now, So I'm looking for

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Speaker 2: a new fix.

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Speaker 3: For that shit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But the thing is that sort of compounds feeling bad

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Speaker 2: about that stuff is that I also feel like I

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Speaker 2: shouldn't care, Like, yes, how stupid to.

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Speaker 3: Care about that.

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Speaker 2: I am old and wise and I shouldn't care, Yes,

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Speaker 2: But feeling guilty about that makes it worse.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's where the idea of body positivity,

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Speaker 1: which of course if it's naturally there for you, it's

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Speaker 1: this very fine line where it can actually flip so

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Speaker 1: much into shame and guilt for women if you don't

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Speaker 1: have it, and then it's another thing to feel shitty

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Speaker 1: about yourself that you're not I should feel better. I

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Speaker 1: should love my body. You know when am I going

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Speaker 1: to love my body? And I think that's a real

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Speaker 1: catch for women because we're sold, you know, this bill

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Speaker 1: of goods since day dot what the perfect body should

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Speaker 1: look like in the skin, and you know what is

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Speaker 1: deemed is the number one look, and then if you

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Speaker 1: don't fit that, then you're wrong. But then we're also

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Speaker 1: told love your curves, love you cell, youreate, love who

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Speaker 1: you are, and then if you don't feel that either,

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh crap, you know, I'm failing and everything.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's a really challenging position for women

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Speaker 1: to find themselves in if we're not like I just

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Speaker 1: love my muffin top. This is amaing, you know. And

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Speaker 1: I don't feel that about my muffin top. You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't feel that I wish it would go away.

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Speaker 1: I do, but I'm not going to get upset about it.

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Speaker 1: Think that's the change for me where I used to

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Speaker 1: but now it's like I know how to dress it

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Speaker 1: up now, to learn those things what works and what

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Speaker 1: does it work now?

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Speaker 2: You know, we're supposed to be very wise at this

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Speaker 2: stage of life, and we are, but you still have

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Speaker 2: good days and bad days in terms of how much

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Speaker 2: you care about that. And one of the reasons why

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Speaker 2: it can really get in your head, I think, is

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Speaker 2: that we worry that what we look like and us

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Speaker 2: looking older or middle aged or whatever words we want

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Speaker 2: to put around that is not how we feel inside. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: So it's like the push to hold on to some

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Speaker 2: kind of youth in terms of what we look like

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Speaker 2: is about how we want to be seen by others,

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Speaker 2: isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely, And I mean I think every woman feels

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Speaker 1: that invisibility factor when we hit a certain age where

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Speaker 1: you just sort of pushed in a certain direction for clothing,

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Speaker 1: for skincare, for you can't dress like that at your age.

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Speaker 1: You know, you have to change that, you have to,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a push in that direction, which I

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Speaker 1: think is challenging. And I think, you know, I've been

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Speaker 1: asked that before. You know, as a model, have you

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Speaker 1: found it more confronting to hit menopause and age? And

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Speaker 1: I just think it's confronting for most women. I don't

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Speaker 1: think whether you're a model or not. I think it

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Speaker 1: can be very confronting. You know, as we see, you know,

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Speaker 1: my mother's body reflecting back in me at the mirror,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, yeah, this is not how I feel.

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Speaker 1: As you say, I still feel like I'm kind of

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Speaker 1: twenty one in a lot of ways, and I still

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Speaker 1: sometimes think I can shop like a twenty one year old.

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Speaker 3: Well, you and I both were in cool trainers to that, Ali.

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Speaker 1: That's right. From my ankles down, we are twenty one.

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Speaker 3: Ankles down, we are exceptionally cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. But then it's so funny. I go, I can't

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Speaker 1: wear those tight, tight dresses now, and then a part

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Speaker 1: of me goes, of course you can. Of course you

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Speaker 1: can who cares if you've got a belly? Now, Like,

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Speaker 1: who's the only person caring? Really, And it would be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's true, you know.

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Speaker 1: So it's like, yeah, you can, you can if you

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Speaker 1: want to, if you want to. So it's like all

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Speaker 1: of those machinations.

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Speaker 2: The thing about this is that we might make peace

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Speaker 2: with I'm getting older, my face looks older, my body

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Speaker 2: looks older. Then it feels like we have an array

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Speaker 2: of choices about how much to care, how much we're

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Speaker 2: going to do about it, right, depending on our resources

307
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Speaker 2: and our priorities. We have options available to us that

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Speaker 2: were not available to our mothers, everything from laser to

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Speaker 2: UV to micro needling to more invasive things, everything from

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Speaker 2: surgery to weight loss injections to keto. Right, we've got

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Speaker 2: a never ending barrage of stuff coming at us that

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Speaker 2: will You don't have to, You don't have to look

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Speaker 2: middle aged if you don't want to. Are you comfortable

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Speaker 2: talking about what you do and don't do and what

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Speaker 2: your lines are?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely?

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Speaker 3: What do you do?

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Speaker 1: I've never had botox or fillers, I've never done anything

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Speaker 1: like have you ever been tempted to do that? Do

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Speaker 1: you know? Just recently I was looking at my friend

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Speaker 1: who she's fifty, so she's a wee bit younger than me.

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Speaker 1: She only does her frown lines between the eyebrows, and

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Speaker 1: I mine A quite does that. Yeah, I have quite

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Speaker 1: deepsh ones for me, Like I certainly see it in

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Speaker 1: photos and you know, selfies and all that crap. I'm like, ah,

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Speaker 1: it's only those lines. And I think it's because they're

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Speaker 1: frown lines. I love my laugh lines, love them anything

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Speaker 1: to do with smiling, enjoy those lines I love. But

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Speaker 1: those ones are my angry lines. And so sometimes I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I don't think I want those very much. So that exactly.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, when I said before MEA does that, I should

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Speaker 2: clarify A. She would be so cool with me saying that.

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Speaker 2: But also that's what she said when she was wrestling

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Speaker 2: with herself about botox and God. She wrestled with herself

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Speaker 2: about bowtoes for a very long time, publicly, of course,

336
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Speaker 2: but she said she just didn't want to look pissed

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Speaker 2: off all the time when she actually wasn't.

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Speaker 1: Pissed off all resting bitch face.

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Speaker 2: And people like to think that older women are grumpy anyway,

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Speaker 2: So that's a similar thing. It's about that making your

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Speaker 2: outsides much insides there?

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00:17:15,422 --> 00:17:16,621
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Do you have a barrier in your mind about doing it?

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Speaker 2: Or is it just whether or not you could be bothered?

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Speaker 1: It's a bit of a whether or not I could

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Speaker 1: be bothered, and I'm slightly terrified. I just think, am

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Speaker 1: I going to be that one person that has a

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Speaker 1: hideous reaction to it? My husband is delightfully proud of

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Speaker 1: the fact that I've never done anything, is he? He

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00:17:34,942 --> 00:17:37,022
Speaker 1: talks about it all the time. He goes, you know,

351
00:17:37,222 --> 00:17:40,942
Speaker 1: look at your face, honey, you're aging so beautifully. There's

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Speaker 1: so many women have done stuff and you haven't done anything,

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Speaker 1: And it's really lovely to have someone that sees the

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Speaker 1: beauty of my aging. Who is my partner? You know?

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Speaker 2: But isn't it funny that it's a compliment. I think

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Speaker 2: that my partner would be the same, and that he

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00:17:55,821 --> 00:17:58,262
Speaker 2: would be a bit judge is probably the wrong word,

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Speaker 2: but probably is also the right word. He probably would

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Speaker 2: be a bit judge if I stuff you do something?

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00:18:02,782 --> 00:18:03,942
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, But.

361
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Speaker 2: It's funny that it's kind of a compliment when really,

362
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Speaker 2: how much of it is to do with us?

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Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?

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00:18:10,462 --> 00:18:15,861
Speaker 1: Yeah? I know, I mean I am absolutely pro whatever

365
00:18:15,901 --> 00:18:18,381
Speaker 1: you want to do to your face, basically, because I

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00:18:18,422 --> 00:18:21,621
Speaker 1: think as long as it brings you to a place

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Speaker 1: of feeling better, you know. I worry about people that,

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00:18:24,821 --> 00:18:28,341
Speaker 1: you know, go on those massive plastic face journeys and

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00:18:28,502 --> 00:18:31,782
Speaker 1: still feel like crap because it hasn't helped what's inside.

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00:18:31,901 --> 00:18:36,061
Speaker 1: But if a little tuck and injectable really makes you

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00:18:36,141 --> 00:18:40,302
Speaker 1: feel better, then go for it. You know. And I've

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Speaker 1: said this before. What I don't like is but this

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Speaker 1: is more like from celebrities, is when celebrities have had

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Speaker 1: so much work and then they go, oh, it's just

375
00:18:50,222 --> 00:18:53,181
Speaker 1: it's just because I wash my face with lemon juice

376
00:18:53,222 --> 00:18:56,661
Speaker 1: and eat cabbage. No it's not. And that makes the

377
00:18:56,661 --> 00:18:59,421
Speaker 1: rest of us feel like we can't keep up, you know.

378
00:19:00,182 --> 00:19:02,621
Speaker 1: But it's such a vicious circle, isn't it. Like the

379
00:19:02,661 --> 00:19:05,901
Speaker 1: whole plastic surgery and everything. It's sort of the more

380
00:19:06,182 --> 00:19:09,181
Speaker 1: women have it, the more we feel we should be

381
00:19:09,222 --> 00:19:12,461
Speaker 1: having the rest of us. And you know, sometimes I

382
00:19:12,502 --> 00:19:15,542
Speaker 1: think that I've been kind of left behind in the

383
00:19:15,542 --> 00:19:19,381
Speaker 1: plastic surgery injectable thing. It's like, oh, I'm fifty four,

384
00:19:19,422 --> 00:19:21,581
Speaker 1: it's too late to do anything now. Maybe I should

385
00:19:21,581 --> 00:19:22,821
Speaker 1: have done it earlier. I don't know.

386
00:19:23,702 --> 00:19:26,621
Speaker 2: Sometimes I think now if I went into and I

387
00:19:26,782 --> 00:19:28,461
Speaker 2: was like, right, I'm gonna get this, I'm gonna get

388
00:19:28,462 --> 00:19:30,101
Speaker 2: these rinkles sort out here, it would be a bit

389
00:19:30,222 --> 00:19:32,901
Speaker 2: like painting the skirting boards but leaving all the walls.

390
00:19:32,982 --> 00:19:38,061
Speaker 1: Yeah, where do you stop? I know, I mean, I

391
00:19:38,141 --> 00:19:39,581
Speaker 1: kind of of course I know how it works, but

392
00:19:39,621 --> 00:19:42,341
Speaker 1: I'm like, the crevice is already there, So how does

393
00:19:42,381 --> 00:19:45,661
Speaker 1: botox stop? Does it stop me from frowning so the

394
00:19:45,702 --> 00:19:49,502
Speaker 1: crevices disappear naturally? I don't know, you know, it would

395
00:19:49,502 --> 00:19:53,942
Speaker 1: be highly unlikely that I will do it. Yeah, I've

396
00:19:53,982 --> 00:19:56,861
Speaker 1: thought it would be nice to not have that. I've

397
00:19:56,861 --> 00:20:01,702
Speaker 1: thought about doing the fat freezing off of my stomach.

398
00:20:02,861 --> 00:20:06,141
Speaker 1: I have definitely thought about that. Again, I just I

399
00:20:06,182 --> 00:20:08,221
Speaker 1: think I have a fear of all that sort of stuff,

400
00:20:08,302 --> 00:20:11,061
Speaker 1: like what if something goes wrong? Yeah, So they're the

401
00:20:11,222 --> 00:20:12,981
Speaker 1: two things I've definitely do.

402
00:20:13,141 --> 00:20:16,982
Speaker 2: You are you a because your skin does look amazing,

403
00:20:16,982 --> 00:20:18,262
Speaker 2: But that's not what we're here to say.

404
00:20:18,422 --> 00:20:19,782
Speaker 1: We're just here to go. But you look great.

405
00:20:20,621 --> 00:20:23,981
Speaker 2: Serum's potions like do you put a lot of stock

406
00:20:24,022 --> 00:20:24,621
Speaker 2: in that stuff?

407
00:20:24,942 --> 00:20:27,742
Speaker 1: Not? Really, I do a little bit for my skin.

408
00:20:28,022 --> 00:20:32,261
Speaker 1: The simpler the better. I'm a very simple, simple, simple person.

409
00:20:32,861 --> 00:20:35,861
Speaker 1: For the longest time, I just washed my face with

410
00:20:35,942 --> 00:20:38,861
Speaker 1: water and then I did a Hahober oil and something

411
00:20:38,861 --> 00:20:43,181
Speaker 1: called Egyptian magic. What's Egyptian magic? I found when we

412
00:20:43,222 --> 00:20:46,262
Speaker 1: lived in La It's just it's a super super super

413
00:20:46,302 --> 00:20:49,622
Speaker 1: old recipe, like just an oil almost so I did

414
00:20:49,661 --> 00:20:53,261
Speaker 1: oil on oil. I have quite dry skin. I don't know.

415
00:20:53,502 --> 00:20:56,621
Speaker 1: Sometimes the serums don't feel like they I don't like

416
00:20:56,702 --> 00:21:00,142
Speaker 1: them on my skin. I don't like a cream moisturizer.

417
00:21:00,621 --> 00:21:03,302
Speaker 1: I'm loving the retreatment botanicals, you know that one. I'm

418
00:21:03,302 --> 00:21:06,661
Speaker 1: living in John's brand, loving that at the moment. But

419
00:21:06,742 --> 00:21:09,182
Speaker 1: sometimes I'll just go back to her Hobo oil.

420
00:21:09,222 --> 00:21:12,821
Speaker 2: And so you've worked out what works for you and

421
00:21:13,422 --> 00:21:17,341
Speaker 2: you're not tempted to do all the fancy procedures. No,

422
00:21:17,661 --> 00:21:19,461
Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of the soul searching and

423
00:21:19,502 --> 00:21:22,621
Speaker 2: worrying about that is a bit passe now, right, Like

424
00:21:23,341 --> 00:21:25,702
Speaker 2: my young friends don't worry about.

425
00:21:25,462 --> 00:21:27,342
Speaker 1: It if they want to go and get absolutely not.

426
00:21:27,381 --> 00:21:30,061
Speaker 2: And I feel like that whatever we do to ourselves,

427
00:21:30,141 --> 00:21:32,101
Speaker 2: it has to be so political, like such a big

428
00:21:32,141 --> 00:21:35,262
Speaker 2: because women's bodies always are right. It's like if whatever

429
00:21:35,341 --> 00:21:37,182
Speaker 2: size they are and whatever you decide to do with it,

430
00:21:37,182 --> 00:21:40,982
Speaker 2: it has to mean something, and that can be really exhausting.

431
00:21:41,182 --> 00:21:42,542
Speaker 1: Yeah, can't it just.

432
00:21:42,581 --> 00:21:44,621
Speaker 3: Mean I don't like my friend line?

433
00:21:44,702 --> 00:21:46,981
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. I know this is so true because

434
00:21:47,022 --> 00:21:49,422
Speaker 1: my I have a twenty eight to twenty four an

435
00:21:49,462 --> 00:21:51,821
Speaker 1: eighteen year old, and they were sitting there the other

436
00:21:51,861 --> 00:21:54,621
Speaker 1: day at lunch figuring out what procedure they would have

437
00:21:54,661 --> 00:21:56,422
Speaker 1: if they were going to have a procedure, Like it

438
00:21:56,462 --> 00:21:59,581
Speaker 1: was like what would we order for lunch? And including

439
00:21:59,621 --> 00:22:02,382
Speaker 1: my son who's already figured out, I would do this,

440
00:22:02,462 --> 00:22:04,381
Speaker 1: and I would do that, and I do that, the

441
00:22:04,542 --> 00:22:06,181
Speaker 1: twenty eight say oh what, I would do this to

442
00:22:06,262 --> 00:22:08,542
Speaker 1: my lips? And I would do I mean that was

443
00:22:08,581 --> 00:22:11,141
Speaker 1: something I never would have considered at that age.

444
00:22:11,341 --> 00:22:14,542
Speaker 3: And also as a parent, we're like, but you're perfect.

445
00:22:14,661 --> 00:22:16,302
Speaker 3: Of course they mess with you.

446
00:22:17,782 --> 00:22:21,821
Speaker 1: I know you dare start on that train. Yeah, but

447
00:22:21,861 --> 00:22:23,942
Speaker 1: that's so true. It's just an option. It's a health

448
00:22:23,942 --> 00:22:26,582
Speaker 1: care option or a self care option. It's whereas Yeah,

449
00:22:26,661 --> 00:22:28,981
Speaker 1: for me, I feel like it's a dramatic thing to

450
00:22:29,101 --> 00:22:32,941
Speaker 1: go and do and yeah, am I betraying my womanhood

451
00:22:32,982 --> 00:22:36,862
Speaker 1: for like changing my face somehow? Like and all those

452
00:22:36,901 --> 00:22:39,022
Speaker 1: women that didn't do it. You know, we've got to

453
00:22:39,022 --> 00:22:40,702
Speaker 1: be strong. It's like, no, you don't.

454
00:22:40,742 --> 00:22:43,942
Speaker 4: You just said you just do what you do and

455
00:22:44,022 --> 00:22:47,421
Speaker 4: if it makes you feel good. My main deterrent actually

456
00:22:47,581 --> 00:22:50,341
Speaker 4: is just time. Is I think I can barely get

457
00:22:50,341 --> 00:22:53,462
Speaker 4: my haircut, you know what I mean? I can barely

458
00:22:53,502 --> 00:22:56,222
Speaker 4: get my haircut. Am I going to start a complicated

459
00:22:56,702 --> 00:23:01,142
Speaker 4: dermatological procedures where I have to be there every six

460
00:23:01,182 --> 00:23:02,222
Speaker 4: weeks for I don't know.

461
00:23:03,101 --> 00:23:05,421
Speaker 1: And your face peels off for a bit? Again, I

462
00:23:05,462 --> 00:23:08,501
Speaker 1: have friends that do a lot of those face peels,

463
00:23:08,581 --> 00:23:11,701
Speaker 1: and stuff in their skin is actually fantastic, So I

464
00:23:11,742 --> 00:23:13,262
Speaker 1: know a lot of the stuff does work.

465
00:23:13,462 --> 00:23:15,221
Speaker 2: There's a gap in our minds between what we think

466
00:23:15,262 --> 00:23:17,222
Speaker 2: we look like and what we look like that sometimes

467
00:23:17,222 --> 00:23:20,742
Speaker 2: we catch now. And maybe this is generational because maybe

468
00:23:20,782 --> 00:23:23,141
Speaker 2: young people don't have that gap so much because they've

469
00:23:23,182 --> 00:23:25,742
Speaker 2: grown up with the front facing phone, so they've looked

470
00:23:25,782 --> 00:23:28,382
Speaker 2: at their faces a lot. Yeah, and so sometimes when

471
00:23:28,381 --> 00:23:30,821
Speaker 2: that catches you and you get that glimpse a bit

472
00:23:30,901 --> 00:23:32,502
Speaker 2: like your mom's body in the bath.

473
00:23:32,742 --> 00:23:36,222
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you're like, oh.

474
00:23:35,901 --> 00:23:39,142
Speaker 2: And that's back to that my outside much my insides bit,

475
00:23:39,341 --> 00:23:40,742
Speaker 2: And that's why it gets complex.

476
00:23:40,861 --> 00:23:43,382
Speaker 1: And do you think that like the face filters are

477
00:23:43,581 --> 00:23:47,302
Speaker 1: to blame for a rise in plastic surgery. I mean,

478
00:23:47,341 --> 00:23:50,021
Speaker 1: I know people have said that before the flow's face filters,

479
00:23:50,022 --> 00:23:52,702
Speaker 1: it's a smoothie skin out that trim. You knows that well.

480
00:23:52,702 --> 00:23:54,701
Speaker 2: It is to be very difficult for us to imagine

481
00:23:54,742 --> 00:23:57,302
Speaker 2: what we look like in different ways. Yeah right, I've

482
00:23:57,341 --> 00:23:59,101
Speaker 2: probably got quite a deep and it sounds like maybe

483
00:23:59,101 --> 00:24:01,101
Speaker 2: you do a little bit, a deep seeded sort of

484
00:24:01,302 --> 00:24:04,502
Speaker 2: that I shouldn't care so much. I mean, obviously don't

485
00:24:04,502 --> 00:24:06,421
Speaker 2: care that much or I would look better, but like

486
00:24:06,581 --> 00:24:10,502
Speaker 2: you know, I shouldn't care so much. But I won't

487
00:24:10,542 --> 00:24:13,182
Speaker 2: put a picture of myself up on my Instagram feed

488
00:24:13,182 --> 00:24:15,421
Speaker 2: if I think I look awful, I won't filter it.

489
00:24:15,502 --> 00:24:18,462
Speaker 2: But I'll choose a flattering angle. I'll take three or

490
00:24:18,462 --> 00:24:20,941
Speaker 2: four pictures to choose the one that I this is

491
00:24:20,942 --> 00:24:21,661
Speaker 2: how I want.

492
00:24:21,542 --> 00:24:22,701
Speaker 3: To present myself.

493
00:24:23,901 --> 00:24:28,021
Speaker 2: So we're all on a scale of that representation, aren't we.

494
00:24:28,742 --> 00:24:32,022
Speaker 2: And then if I see myself and I have been filtered,

495
00:24:32,141 --> 00:24:36,222
Speaker 2: and I go, oh wow, I can understand how.

496
00:24:36,061 --> 00:24:36,901
Speaker 3: Seductive it is.

497
00:24:37,022 --> 00:24:39,101
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And.

498
00:24:39,141 --> 00:24:41,461
Speaker 2: I see that my daughter who when she does it,

499
00:24:41,502 --> 00:24:43,382
Speaker 2: I mean she's a bit beyond this now. But those

500
00:24:43,381 --> 00:24:46,342
Speaker 2: snapchat filters that are really cool, that just make your

501
00:24:46,341 --> 00:24:49,661
Speaker 2: eyes that little bit bigger, and your skin a little

502
00:24:49,661 --> 00:24:53,021
Speaker 2: bit whiter, which is problematic in its own way, and

503
00:24:53,061 --> 00:24:55,141
Speaker 2: your lip's a little bit fuller, and she suddenly just

504
00:24:55,222 --> 00:24:57,422
Speaker 2: looks kind of.

505
00:24:57,341 --> 00:24:59,542
Speaker 3: Like the models used to sell us bags or your fault.

506
00:24:59,821 --> 00:25:01,701
Speaker 1: I know it's true.

507
00:25:02,222 --> 00:25:05,181
Speaker 3: I'm part of the problem, Holly, But I have a friend.

508
00:25:05,262 --> 00:25:07,462
Speaker 3: We digress, well, we'll come back to the main point.

509
00:25:07,502 --> 00:25:09,821
Speaker 3: But I have a friend. She's a performer and she

510
00:25:09,821 --> 00:25:10,542
Speaker 3: does quite a lot.

511
00:25:10,422 --> 00:25:14,262
Speaker 2: Of TV in Asia, and they live filter faces now,

512
00:25:14,861 --> 00:25:19,502
Speaker 2: so when she is on the TV there, she has

513
00:25:19,502 --> 00:25:23,341
Speaker 2: had a filter put over her, and she says, it's amazing.

514
00:25:23,982 --> 00:25:27,461
Speaker 2: You sit backstage and artists come off stage and they

515
00:25:27,502 --> 00:25:29,661
Speaker 2: look so different to what you've just seen on the screen.

516
00:25:29,661 --> 00:25:31,941
Speaker 1: While they do they still do a full face of

517
00:25:31,982 --> 00:25:34,462
Speaker 1: makeup or do they make as well, and then they

518
00:25:34,502 --> 00:25:37,022
Speaker 1: rely somewhat on the filter. That wow.

519
00:25:37,101 --> 00:25:39,622
Speaker 2: So if you think about when you were modeling, I'm

520
00:25:39,621 --> 00:25:40,902
Speaker 2: sure sometimes you were airbrushed.

521
00:25:40,901 --> 00:25:41,701
Speaker 3: I'm sure you didn't need it.

522
00:25:41,702 --> 00:25:45,261
Speaker 2: Of course, definitsh you were air brushed, and you know,

523
00:25:45,422 --> 00:25:47,462
Speaker 2: we all did whatever way you needed to be whittled,

524
00:25:47,821 --> 00:25:51,381
Speaker 2: and now that can happen in real time. It does

525
00:25:51,462 --> 00:25:54,861
Speaker 2: make you wonder what it's going to do to our

526
00:25:54,861 --> 00:25:58,101
Speaker 2: perception of beauty. Yes, if you never have to even

527
00:25:58,141 --> 00:26:00,742
Speaker 2: gaze upon a less than perfect.

528
00:26:00,222 --> 00:26:02,901
Speaker 1: Face, Yeah, that's exactly right.

529
00:26:02,782 --> 00:26:09,022
Speaker 3: And it's a bit scary. Yeah. After the break, Ali

530
00:26:09,141 --> 00:26:10,862
Speaker 3: shares more about her own.

531
00:26:10,702 --> 00:26:13,142
Speaker 2: Struggle with body image as a young model and how

532
00:26:13,182 --> 00:26:16,101
Speaker 2: she feels about her body. Now we talk about body

533
00:26:16,101 --> 00:26:21,342
Speaker 2: image and how we're teaching young women to see beauty

534
00:26:22,262 --> 00:26:24,542
Speaker 2: in queen menopause and on No Filter with me, you

535
00:26:24,542 --> 00:26:27,381
Speaker 2: wrote really honestly and beautifully about grappling with changing shape.

536
00:26:27,422 --> 00:26:30,061
Speaker 2: We've touched on this a little bit already, and you wrote,

537
00:26:30,141 --> 00:26:32,421
Speaker 2: I know I'm feeling older than ever, my body shaping

538
00:26:32,422 --> 00:26:35,101
Speaker 2: itself into an actual potato. I really related to that.

539
00:26:35,702 --> 00:26:38,262
Speaker 2: What if this potato shape is permanent? What if this

540
00:26:38,381 --> 00:26:40,782
Speaker 2: is my final resting body shape? Can I love this

541
00:26:40,901 --> 00:26:42,782
Speaker 2: shape just as it is? How do I love my

542
00:26:42,861 --> 00:26:45,181
Speaker 2: body when I hold the comparison to my twenty one

543
00:26:45,262 --> 00:26:49,141
Speaker 2: year old self? Now, wait, is a tricky thing to

544
00:26:49,222 --> 00:26:52,901
Speaker 2: talk about. It's taboo. Younger women tell me all the

545
00:26:52,942 --> 00:26:56,862
Speaker 2: time that we shouldn't talk about it at all. But

546
00:26:57,141 --> 00:27:00,942
Speaker 2: most older women I know have some kind of complex

547
00:27:00,982 --> 00:27:02,502
Speaker 2: relationship with their weight and they do.

548
00:27:02,381 --> 00:27:03,341
Speaker 3: Want to talk about it.

549
00:27:03,422 --> 00:27:06,542
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I know that you have and do where

550
00:27:06,581 --> 00:27:08,742
Speaker 2: do you stand on that idea of that we should

551
00:27:08,782 --> 00:27:11,702
Speaker 2: just try and make it less important by not focusing

552
00:27:11,742 --> 00:27:12,021
Speaker 2: on it.

553
00:27:12,542 --> 00:27:15,101
Speaker 1: I would love women to not focus on their way.

554
00:27:15,422 --> 00:27:19,422
Speaker 1: I would just love women to feel strong and healthy.

555
00:27:19,621 --> 00:27:23,381
Speaker 1: That would be my two things that women focused on

556
00:27:23,702 --> 00:27:26,861
Speaker 1: out of anything, that they are healthy and strong, because

557
00:27:26,901 --> 00:27:29,861
Speaker 1: I think I know that certainly knowing it enough now

558
00:27:30,182 --> 00:27:34,102
Speaker 1: and speaking to doctors and understanding about how important strength

559
00:27:34,222 --> 00:27:37,542
Speaker 1: is after menopause and what menopause does to your bones

560
00:27:37,581 --> 00:27:41,102
Speaker 1: and once the estrogen drops, and the most important thing

561
00:27:41,141 --> 00:27:43,981
Speaker 1: you can do for yourself is to be strong. So

562
00:27:44,101 --> 00:27:46,461
Speaker 1: I would love for women to feel that that was

563
00:27:46,502 --> 00:27:48,702
Speaker 1: their goal and healthy.

564
00:27:49,182 --> 00:27:52,502
Speaker 2: From the days when you wrote those words, for example,

565
00:27:52,581 --> 00:27:54,101
Speaker 2: to where you are now and you said at the

566
00:27:54,141 --> 00:27:56,381
Speaker 2: beginning of the show that you feel now like I

567
00:27:56,422 --> 00:28:00,542
Speaker 2: wouldn't change it. Is that because you've gone through this understanding,

568
00:28:00,542 --> 00:28:03,461
Speaker 2: this education about what happens to your body, and so

569
00:28:03,542 --> 00:28:06,142
Speaker 2: now you've found the ways to make yourself feel stronger.

570
00:28:06,222 --> 00:28:08,502
Speaker 2: Like do you relate to this person who's worried about

571
00:28:08,502 --> 00:28:09,302
Speaker 2: being potato.

572
00:28:09,061 --> 00:28:12,302
Speaker 1: Shop Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's still definitely with me.

573
00:28:12,661 --> 00:28:18,022
Speaker 1: I just don't feel as attached to wanting to be

574
00:28:18,141 --> 00:28:20,421
Speaker 1: the shape I was when I was twenty one. I

575
00:28:20,502 --> 00:28:23,902
Speaker 1: feel like I've now lived in this shaped body long

576
00:28:24,022 --> 00:28:27,462
Speaker 1: enough to go. I don't think this we're going back.

577
00:28:29,262 --> 00:28:30,421
Speaker 1: I think this might be it.

578
00:28:30,621 --> 00:28:32,622
Speaker 3: So it's more or maybe about grappling.

579
00:28:32,182 --> 00:28:35,181
Speaker 1: With the chain. Yeah. And if this is it, are

580
00:28:35,222 --> 00:28:38,022
Speaker 1: you going to talk crap to yourself for the rest

581
00:28:38,022 --> 00:28:39,661
Speaker 1: of your life or are you just going to be

582
00:28:39,661 --> 00:28:43,021
Speaker 1: okay with what you've got now? And that's something that

583
00:28:43,062 --> 00:28:47,702
Speaker 1: I constantly sort of work with, like just going everything's working, Alli.

584
00:28:47,982 --> 00:28:51,222
Speaker 1: You don't have cancer, you don't have some other disease,

585
00:28:51,502 --> 00:28:54,942
Speaker 1: You've got all your limbs and fingers, your body is working.

586
00:28:55,142 --> 00:28:58,062
Speaker 1: Let's just work on that. I'd tell you something that's

587
00:28:58,182 --> 00:29:02,302
Speaker 1: really actually changed my mind is I don't know where

588
00:29:02,302 --> 00:29:06,302
Speaker 1: I saw it. It was some ad and it was a gentleman, yeah,

589
00:29:06,382 --> 00:29:08,702
Speaker 1: I guess my age sort of thing, and he said,

590
00:29:08,742 --> 00:29:11,222
Speaker 1: I really want to be strong and healthy for my grandkids.

591
00:29:11,422 --> 00:29:14,502
Speaker 1: And I've got that in my mind now. And I

592
00:29:14,502 --> 00:29:16,981
Speaker 1: don't want to be a size seven. I mean to

593
00:29:17,022 --> 00:29:20,461
Speaker 1: size eight or six for my grandkids, I want to

594
00:29:20,462 --> 00:29:22,222
Speaker 1: be strong, I want to be healthy. I want to

595
00:29:22,222 --> 00:29:23,582
Speaker 1: be able to lift them up. And I want to

596
00:29:23,622 --> 00:29:25,342
Speaker 1: be running on the beach with them. I want to

597
00:29:25,342 --> 00:29:28,661
Speaker 1: be hiking with them. That's kind of where I've shifted

598
00:29:28,742 --> 00:29:31,822
Speaker 1: myself now, like what do I want my future self

599
00:29:31,822 --> 00:29:35,261
Speaker 1: to be? And it's not like bikini ready for the summer.

600
00:29:35,502 --> 00:29:39,262
Speaker 1: It's fit and feeling good and that's helpful.

601
00:29:39,502 --> 00:29:41,981
Speaker 2: Do you think, as my young colleagues tell me all

602
00:29:41,982 --> 00:29:46,342
Speaker 2: the time that our generation has particularly fucked top relationship

603
00:29:46,342 --> 00:29:50,542
Speaker 2: with our bodies. They think that we were very doused

604
00:29:50,582 --> 00:29:52,022
Speaker 2: in toxic diet culture.

605
00:29:52,342 --> 00:29:55,382
Speaker 1: Do the younger colleagues feel like that they're not doused

606
00:29:55,422 --> 00:29:55,622
Speaker 1: in it?

607
00:29:56,102 --> 00:29:58,222
Speaker 2: Jesse, my co host on out Loud who's in her

608
00:29:58,302 --> 00:30:02,862
Speaker 2: thirties early thirties, she always says that Gen X, we

609
00:30:03,622 --> 00:30:05,902
Speaker 2: are very hard on ourselves about our bodies, and she

610
00:30:05,902 --> 00:30:09,462
Speaker 2: thinks it is because we grew up in toxic diet culture, which.

611
00:30:09,222 --> 00:30:10,222
Speaker 1: I feel we did.

612
00:30:10,582 --> 00:30:14,021
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was also so normal when we were

613
00:30:14,062 --> 00:30:16,902
Speaker 2: young that there would be ads on the TV telling

614
00:30:16,942 --> 00:30:19,102
Speaker 2: you how to lose weight fast, that every magazine and

615
00:30:19,142 --> 00:30:20,862
Speaker 2: I worked in magazines, and I mean, so did you

616
00:30:20,902 --> 00:30:24,062
Speaker 2: in a different way. Was like, lose five kilos fast.

617
00:30:24,102 --> 00:30:26,302
Speaker 2: It was all out there, it was all explicit. It

618
00:30:26,342 --> 00:30:29,582
Speaker 2: was you need to lose weight. Was kind of our

619
00:30:29,702 --> 00:30:33,421
Speaker 2: constant track in our heads. And what I wonder, and

620
00:30:33,462 --> 00:30:35,422
Speaker 2: this is what I argue with Jesse about a bit now,

621
00:30:35,542 --> 00:30:38,661
Speaker 2: is I wonder if that track's still there because on

622
00:30:38,702 --> 00:30:43,902
Speaker 2: Instagram certainly everybody is thin. TikTok, everybody is thin. That

623
00:30:43,982 --> 00:30:45,862
Speaker 2: were still presenting all that. But now that you're not

624
00:30:45,902 --> 00:30:47,942
Speaker 2: allowed to say it out loud, does that.

625
00:30:47,862 --> 00:30:49,062
Speaker 3: Make it better or worse?

626
00:30:49,382 --> 00:30:51,582
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I don't see

627
00:30:51,582 --> 00:30:54,862
Speaker 1: anything's changed. I mean I maybe I'm wrong. I'm not

628
00:30:55,022 --> 00:30:58,342
Speaker 1: you know, twenty one or thirty or whatever. But you know,

629
00:30:58,422 --> 00:31:02,062
Speaker 1: now we've got talk of just taking a zepic and

630
00:31:02,102 --> 00:31:04,862
Speaker 1: losing weight, and isn't this great? It's the fast way

631
00:31:04,902 --> 00:31:07,342
Speaker 1: to lose weight. Like, we've still got that talk. That's

632
00:31:08,262 --> 00:31:11,422
Speaker 1: I hear a lot. You know, my twenty eight year

633
00:31:11,422 --> 00:31:14,701
Speaker 1: old still is concerned if she puts on weight. My

634
00:31:15,302 --> 00:31:18,262
Speaker 1: eighteen year old is concerned if she loses too much weight.

635
00:31:18,422 --> 00:31:21,981
Speaker 1: So I don't know, I haven't seen a change. I

636
00:31:22,022 --> 00:31:28,741
Speaker 1: think there's still maybe there's a slight better look in

637
00:31:28,902 --> 00:31:31,982
Speaker 1: we're a little bit more diverse in who we see

638
00:31:32,022 --> 00:31:36,181
Speaker 1: on TV now, but it's still described as isn't it

639
00:31:36,182 --> 00:31:39,461
Speaker 1: amazing We've put like a size twenty woman on a screen,

640
00:31:39,582 --> 00:31:42,021
Speaker 1: Like it's still like a thing that's like exciting, and

641
00:31:42,342 --> 00:31:45,702
Speaker 1: aren't we incredibly amazing that we've decided to cast this

642
00:31:45,782 --> 00:31:48,982
Speaker 1: person where I don't know, it's still not like it's

643
00:31:49,142 --> 00:31:53,262
Speaker 1: just average sizes doing average things, seeing normal people on

644
00:31:53,342 --> 00:31:56,181
Speaker 1: TV that are bigger and smaller and different colors. And

645
00:31:56,342 --> 00:31:59,502
Speaker 1: it's getting there, though I don't think the diet culture

646
00:31:59,822 --> 00:32:02,502
Speaker 1: has changed. I would love it too, but I don't

647
00:32:02,542 --> 00:32:03,062
Speaker 1: think it has.

648
00:32:03,102 --> 00:32:04,062
Speaker 3: I don't think it has really.

649
00:32:04,102 --> 00:32:07,542
Speaker 2: I just think maybe it's pushed underground a bit, like

650
00:32:07,582 --> 00:32:10,822
Speaker 2: it would be very uncool in my office where I

651
00:32:10,862 --> 00:32:14,222
Speaker 2: work that anyone would ever say that anybody, you've lost weight,

652
00:32:14,342 --> 00:32:16,421
Speaker 2: you look great, you know, like whereas we used to

653
00:32:16,502 --> 00:32:18,782
Speaker 2: say that to each other all the time, and my

654
00:32:18,902 --> 00:32:21,542
Speaker 2: girlfriends who are a similar age to me still do

655
00:32:21,622 --> 00:32:24,742
Speaker 2: say that absolutely, And that wouldn't.

656
00:32:24,422 --> 00:32:25,382
Speaker 3: Be okay to say.

657
00:32:25,422 --> 00:32:28,662
Speaker 2: It wouldn't be okay to sit down at brunch and go,

658
00:32:28,942 --> 00:32:32,862
Speaker 2: I'm not eating carbs, even though you might not be eating.

659
00:32:32,622 --> 00:32:34,302
Speaker 3: Cars do you know what I mean.

660
00:32:34,342 --> 00:32:39,782
Speaker 1: Right, But are they still talking behind other women's backs

661
00:32:39,822 --> 00:32:41,862
Speaker 1: and going, oh my god, she's put on a lot

662
00:32:41,902 --> 00:32:44,582
Speaker 1: of weight. Probably are, I don't know.

663
00:32:44,622 --> 00:32:48,382
Speaker 2: It's interesting talking about daughters is interesting here because my

664
00:32:48,582 --> 00:32:50,982
Speaker 2: daughter's fourteen. I had my kids much later than you

665
00:32:51,182 --> 00:32:53,782
Speaker 2: were a similar age, so you're at a different phase.

666
00:32:53,822 --> 00:32:57,421
Speaker 2: But she is very you can see, you can almost

667
00:32:57,462 --> 00:33:01,382
Speaker 2: watch their brains switch on about it matters a great

668
00:33:01,462 --> 00:33:03,741
Speaker 2: deal about what I look like and what size my

669
00:33:03,782 --> 00:33:06,902
Speaker 2: body is and my messaging to her, and I sometimes

670
00:33:06,902 --> 00:33:08,342
Speaker 2: worry that I fucked it, so you have to tell

671
00:33:08,382 --> 00:33:10,342
Speaker 2: me if that's true. When she was little, I was

672
00:33:10,342 --> 00:33:12,142
Speaker 2: always like, it doesn't matter at all, doesn't matter at

673
00:33:12,182 --> 00:33:14,181
Speaker 2: all what you look like. Bodies are for being strong

674
00:33:14,222 --> 00:33:17,982
Speaker 2: and doing things. Everybody's beautiful, like all of that. Yeah, right,

675
00:33:18,542 --> 00:33:20,422
Speaker 2: And then I have a very clear memory of her.

676
00:33:20,661 --> 00:33:22,421
Speaker 2: Maybe it was just when she went to high school,

677
00:33:22,622 --> 00:33:24,742
Speaker 2: just before high school, going for a walk with her

678
00:33:24,862 --> 00:33:27,941
Speaker 2: and me saying to her, doesn't matter what you look like,

679
00:33:27,982 --> 00:33:30,982
Speaker 2: on her saying like almost sheepishly, mom, it really matters.

680
00:33:31,342 --> 00:33:34,262
Speaker 2: Everybody talks about it all the time. You know that person.

681
00:33:34,422 --> 00:33:36,142
Speaker 1: So she could see the split, She.

682
00:33:36,022 --> 00:33:39,701
Speaker 2: Could see my lie in a way, how have you

683
00:33:39,942 --> 00:33:42,502
Speaker 2: dealt with your daughters and talking about beauty and body?

684
00:33:42,622 --> 00:33:46,302
Speaker 1: You know, it was something that I was hyper aware of,

685
00:33:46,462 --> 00:33:49,941
Speaker 1: hyper aware of, and I think I fucked it, and

686
00:33:50,022 --> 00:33:51,981
Speaker 1: I know I fucked it actually, And the way I

687
00:33:52,062 --> 00:33:57,942
Speaker 1: fucked it was I would say outwardly unkind things about

688
00:33:57,942 --> 00:34:01,262
Speaker 1: my appearance in front of my children. Number One rule,

689
00:34:01,942 --> 00:34:04,862
Speaker 1: mess that up big time. How can I turn to

690
00:34:04,902 --> 00:34:08,741
Speaker 1: them and say, everybody's beautiful, you're perfect and look in

691
00:34:08,782 --> 00:34:12,341
Speaker 1: the mirror and go, oh god, this doesn't fit. I've

692
00:34:12,342 --> 00:34:15,022
Speaker 1: put on so much weight. I can't wear this dress anymore.

693
00:34:15,702 --> 00:34:19,942
Speaker 1: I remember my youngest at one point saying, I hate

694
00:34:19,982 --> 00:34:23,221
Speaker 1: it when you talk to yourself like that. That's so good.

695
00:34:23,342 --> 00:34:25,781
Speaker 2: I mean, it's awful that you did, but it's good

696
00:34:25,862 --> 00:34:26,942
Speaker 2: that she said that.

697
00:34:26,661 --> 00:34:30,582
Speaker 1: That was the first thing that I remember going, that's

698
00:34:30,661 --> 00:34:32,462
Speaker 1: got to be the last time. If you're going to

699
00:34:32,502 --> 00:34:35,861
Speaker 1: say it, just say internally, like, do not speak it

700
00:34:35,902 --> 00:34:39,302
Speaker 1: out loud. Actually, it was honestly one of the first

701
00:34:39,302 --> 00:34:43,502
Speaker 1: things that started changing my judgment of myself. Just stop

702
00:34:43,542 --> 00:34:46,422
Speaker 1: saying it out loud, Like one step, don't say it

703
00:34:46,462 --> 00:34:49,022
Speaker 1: out loud, because I think it has more power if

704
00:34:49,022 --> 00:34:51,341
Speaker 1: you say it out loud, and especially in a room

705
00:34:51,342 --> 00:34:54,301
Speaker 1: full of people or in front of people. Plus, I

706
00:34:54,342 --> 00:34:56,741
Speaker 1: also had that thing and I talk a little bit

707
00:34:56,741 --> 00:34:59,582
Speaker 1: about that in the book too, is that I always

708
00:34:59,661 --> 00:35:04,301
Speaker 1: felt nervous around women. It was so weird. I know

709
00:35:04,342 --> 00:35:07,862
Speaker 1: it sounds crazy, but I felt nervous around women being

710
00:35:07,862 --> 00:35:10,982
Speaker 1: a model, that they would think I was up myself

711
00:35:11,661 --> 00:35:13,902
Speaker 1: for being a model. So the first thing I always

712
00:35:13,902 --> 00:35:16,062
Speaker 1: did was start to put myself down. It was the

713
00:35:16,102 --> 00:35:18,261
Speaker 1: first thing I would say, whether it was I'm not

714
00:35:18,422 --> 00:35:22,062
Speaker 1: very smart, or yeah, i'm so flat chested, or I've

715
00:35:22,102 --> 00:35:25,181
Speaker 1: got this, I've got that, because I thought that was

716
00:35:25,221 --> 00:35:26,942
Speaker 1: the way I'm going to get l liked. I'm not

717
00:35:26,982 --> 00:35:30,022
Speaker 1: going to be liked for being pretty amongst other women,

718
00:35:30,502 --> 00:35:34,102
Speaker 1: but if I put myself below you, then we might

719
00:35:34,142 --> 00:35:36,901
Speaker 1: be able to have a connection. Eh, that doesn't really work.

720
00:35:37,022 --> 00:35:38,702
Speaker 3: I was going to say, did that work?

721
00:35:38,862 --> 00:35:41,221
Speaker 1: No, No, not at all. And that's one of the

722
00:35:41,261 --> 00:35:44,701
Speaker 1: things that modeling is a negative For modeling, that was

723
00:35:44,741 --> 00:35:46,942
Speaker 1: one of the things I had to really undo and

724
00:35:46,982 --> 00:35:50,221
Speaker 1: it was really you know, hearing my daughter's going, I

725
00:35:50,342 --> 00:35:53,181
Speaker 1: can't stand it when you say how mean you are

726
00:35:53,422 --> 00:35:54,102
Speaker 1: to yourself.

727
00:35:54,422 --> 00:35:57,142
Speaker 2: That's amazing because one of the things that's very relatable

728
00:35:57,181 --> 00:35:59,741
Speaker 2: about that. I tried to never talk about body or

729
00:35:59,781 --> 00:36:02,741
Speaker 2: weight in front of my kids, but the number of

730
00:36:02,822 --> 00:36:04,661
Speaker 2: times that they would have seen me glance in a

731
00:36:04,661 --> 00:36:07,341
Speaker 2: mirror and go ough yeah. And the idea of us

732
00:36:07,502 --> 00:36:10,622
Speaker 2: looking at ourselves and going and then myself.

733
00:36:10,261 --> 00:36:14,341
Speaker 1: And going throats.

734
00:36:15,382 --> 00:36:17,502
Speaker 2: When you actually take that out of context and look

735
00:36:17,542 --> 00:36:19,301
Speaker 2: at it from a helicopter, you're like, how awful that

736
00:36:19,382 --> 00:36:21,701
Speaker 2: we do that to ourselves, no matter what we look like,

737
00:36:21,862 --> 00:36:25,341
Speaker 2: whether we are models, whether we're not. You've felt instinctively,

738
00:36:25,342 --> 00:36:29,142
Speaker 2: I've got to pull myself back, and then you probably

739
00:36:29,142 --> 00:36:31,181
Speaker 2: began to believe the script. You were telling yourself that

740
00:36:31,261 --> 00:36:33,622
Speaker 2: you are smart and you weren't this, and you weren't that.

741
00:36:33,781 --> 00:36:36,062
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean being a model, you're not booked

742
00:36:36,062 --> 00:36:37,982
Speaker 1: for your brains. You're not booked for how you can

743
00:36:38,062 --> 00:36:41,902
Speaker 1: understand this topic or you're eloquent. It's like smile and

744
00:36:41,982 --> 00:36:45,542
Speaker 1: look pretty and that was it. So and that's what

745
00:36:45,582 --> 00:36:49,861
Speaker 1: I became famous for. So it's taken me years to

746
00:36:49,982 --> 00:36:52,142
Speaker 1: get to a point where I felt like I had

747
00:36:52,342 --> 00:36:55,301
Speaker 1: something to say and someone might find it helpful or interesting,

748
00:36:55,661 --> 00:36:58,861
Speaker 1: you know. So, yeah, that was a long piece to

749
00:36:58,982 --> 00:36:59,902
Speaker 1: undo as well.

750
00:37:00,342 --> 00:37:02,461
Speaker 2: I always think though that even though, as you say,

751
00:37:02,462 --> 00:37:06,622
Speaker 2: you're not booked for being pretty, models probably have a

752
00:37:06,661 --> 00:37:11,142
Speaker 2: different relationship with criticism because you also get a lot

753
00:37:11,181 --> 00:37:14,102
Speaker 2: more of that, probably than your average person. I was

754
00:37:14,142 --> 00:37:17,622
Speaker 2: thinking about recently. I could probably tell you specifically some

755
00:37:18,102 --> 00:37:20,261
Speaker 2: times that people have commented on my appearance and it

756
00:37:20,302 --> 00:37:22,902
Speaker 2: would have really hurt my Yeah, right, I remember a

757
00:37:22,942 --> 00:37:25,781
Speaker 2: time when my mom years ago commented on my weight.

758
00:37:26,462 --> 00:37:28,701
Speaker 2: I could still remember like what I was looking at

759
00:37:28,741 --> 00:37:31,102
Speaker 2: out of the window, and what the days smelt like

760
00:37:31,142 --> 00:37:33,341
Speaker 2: and all those things, because it really hurt me. But

761
00:37:33,462 --> 00:37:35,901
Speaker 2: being a teenage model, you probably going to castings where

762
00:37:35,902 --> 00:37:39,022
Speaker 2: people were like too short, too tall, too blond, to this,

763
00:37:39,221 --> 00:37:42,381
Speaker 2: to that too, Like, So what does that do? Do

764
00:37:42,462 --> 00:37:45,221
Speaker 2: you become better at handling it or do you just

765
00:37:45,781 --> 00:37:46,542
Speaker 2: hate yourself?

766
00:37:48,582 --> 00:37:51,102
Speaker 1: I think it's a little bit of both actually, But yeah,

767
00:37:51,142 --> 00:37:54,542
Speaker 1: that's a very very good point, because that's the thing.

768
00:37:54,582 --> 00:37:57,382
Speaker 1: You can be standing there and you can have six

769
00:37:57,462 --> 00:38:02,901
Speaker 1: people who are looking at you like a painting, going yeah, look,

770
00:38:02,942 --> 00:38:05,301
Speaker 1: she's got too many moles on that side of her back.

771
00:38:05,342 --> 00:38:07,582
Speaker 1: Can we like cover those up? Cover those up? Like

772
00:38:07,661 --> 00:38:10,821
Speaker 1: that doesn't look good. Yeah, poops are really small, Like

773
00:38:10,862 --> 00:38:13,301
Speaker 1: give us something more. Oh, Ali, you just need to

774
00:38:13,342 --> 00:38:15,741
Speaker 1: stand up a bit because when you slouch, like your

775
00:38:15,822 --> 00:38:20,262
Speaker 1: belly pokes out, you know. I mean, it's just like, okay,

776
00:38:20,302 --> 00:38:22,142
Speaker 1: what do I do? How do I eat? And you

777
00:38:22,382 --> 00:38:25,261
Speaker 1: suck in? Suck in now, and of course you get

778
00:38:25,261 --> 00:38:27,502
Speaker 1: the oh you're gorgeous and blah blah blah blah blah.

779
00:38:27,622 --> 00:38:29,781
Speaker 1: But of course it's almost like you're waiting for the

780
00:38:29,781 --> 00:38:33,142
Speaker 1: criticism to go. Okay, is there a butt in there?

781
00:38:33,261 --> 00:38:35,142
Speaker 1: Is there a butt your hair? Or but this or

782
00:38:35,221 --> 00:38:38,382
Speaker 1: but that? Or striving to change this or striving to

783
00:38:38,422 --> 00:38:41,382
Speaker 1: get better. And I couldn't change my skin. My skin's

784
00:38:41,422 --> 00:38:43,782
Speaker 1: got a lot of freckles and moles. It was like, okay,

785
00:38:43,822 --> 00:38:47,422
Speaker 1: well I lost that job because I couldn't make that disappear.

786
00:38:47,542 --> 00:38:52,502
Speaker 1: So there's an enormous amount of criticism leveled. I think

787
00:38:52,502 --> 00:38:55,661
Speaker 1: it models and people say, well, that's your job, you know,

788
00:38:55,822 --> 00:38:57,901
Speaker 1: you put yourself in that position and that's your job.

789
00:38:57,982 --> 00:38:59,661
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, but I didn't sign up for

790
00:38:59,701 --> 00:39:00,742
Speaker 1: the criticism. WHOA.

791
00:39:01,181 --> 00:39:03,781
Speaker 3: I was like, can't you just keep it quiet? I

792
00:39:03,822 --> 00:39:05,582
Speaker 3: have to hear it, like you say it what I've

793
00:39:05,661 --> 00:39:06,422
Speaker 3: left the room.

794
00:39:06,622 --> 00:39:08,781
Speaker 1: The first time because when I grew up in an

795
00:39:08,781 --> 00:39:12,181
Speaker 1: era off of you know, you'd do a polaroid, wait

796
00:39:12,221 --> 00:39:14,901
Speaker 1: for the polaroid to dry, and you'd look at it

797
00:39:14,942 --> 00:39:18,661
Speaker 1: and you'd go, okay, let's change the lighting. Then you'd

798
00:39:18,661 --> 00:39:20,701
Speaker 1: shoot and it was film. You had no idea what

799
00:39:20,741 --> 00:39:22,861
Speaker 1: those photographs were going to look like until they turned

800
00:39:22,902 --> 00:39:26,622
Speaker 1: up in a magazine. But here I remember coming back,

801
00:39:26,661 --> 00:39:28,941
Speaker 1: having not modeled for years and years, I came back.

802
00:39:29,022 --> 00:39:31,262
Speaker 1: I don't know what I was shooting. I was shooting something.

803
00:39:32,022 --> 00:39:35,741
Speaker 1: And now you stand there and everyone's looking at the

804
00:39:36,022 --> 00:39:39,862
Speaker 1: computer monitor because every photograph's popping up on the computer monitor.

805
00:39:40,342 --> 00:39:43,701
Speaker 1: And I remember this job that they were airbrushing as

806
00:39:43,701 --> 00:39:45,382
Speaker 1: they went. They were like, yeah, just get rid of

807
00:39:45,382 --> 00:39:49,102
Speaker 1: the lines under the dark circles. We'll just smooth those out.

808
00:39:49,221 --> 00:39:53,942
Speaker 1: So I remember just standing behind the photographer and you know,

809
00:39:54,022 --> 00:39:57,622
Speaker 1: computer operator as they fixed me in real time.

810
00:39:58,261 --> 00:40:04,222
Speaker 3: This kind this is watching yourself change yes to this very.

811
00:40:04,422 --> 00:40:07,062
Speaker 1: Yes, just get rid of that. And whenever I do

812
00:40:07,142 --> 00:40:08,821
Speaker 1: a photo shoot for anything, and they said you want

813
00:40:08,862 --> 00:40:10,462
Speaker 1: to come see the photo on the computer, I said

814
00:40:10,502 --> 00:40:13,502
Speaker 1: absolutely not, that's good. I never want to see it.

815
00:40:13,542 --> 00:40:15,902
Speaker 1: And apparently a lot of old school models, which I

816
00:40:15,942 --> 00:40:18,821
Speaker 1: consider myself one don't like to see it. It's too

817
00:40:18,902 --> 00:40:19,422
Speaker 1: off putting.

818
00:40:21,022 --> 00:40:21,982
Speaker 3: No, I don't want to know.

819
00:40:22,142 --> 00:40:25,261
Speaker 1: No, just take a nice photo and print it. That's fine.

820
00:40:25,661 --> 00:40:28,142
Speaker 2: This is interesting about retraining ourselves. You know how you

821
00:40:28,181 --> 00:40:30,821
Speaker 2: were saying that after hearing your daughter say to you,

822
00:40:31,181 --> 00:40:33,582
Speaker 2: I hate hearing you talk like that, and you were like, right,

823
00:40:33,582 --> 00:40:36,341
Speaker 2: I'm going to stop saying that out loud. I do

824
00:40:36,422 --> 00:40:38,022
Speaker 2: that a bit with you know, we were talking before

825
00:40:38,022 --> 00:40:41,102
Speaker 2: about whether or not our generation was particularly brutal on

826
00:40:41,142 --> 00:40:44,941
Speaker 2: ourselves and each other about our bodies. I do that

827
00:40:44,982 --> 00:40:48,102
Speaker 2: in terms of retraining myself not to constantly comment on

828
00:40:48,142 --> 00:40:49,062
Speaker 2: women's appearances.

829
00:40:49,181 --> 00:40:51,142
Speaker 3: Yes, when they're on TV, for example, Yes.

830
00:40:50,982 --> 00:40:53,661
Speaker 2: You know, so the news readers on TV. And if

831
00:40:53,741 --> 00:40:55,821
Speaker 2: my mom was there, my mom would say what hair?

832
00:40:56,221 --> 00:40:59,381
Speaker 2: Oh you know, Oh that color does nothing for her.

833
00:40:59,502 --> 00:41:01,301
Speaker 1: That would be my mom for sure. My mom would

834
00:41:01,342 --> 00:41:03,261
Speaker 1: go look at the size of her, how did she

835
00:41:03,302 --> 00:41:06,742
Speaker 1: get to be that big? Yeah, I'm like, oh my god.

836
00:41:07,661 --> 00:41:11,341
Speaker 2: So I've trained myself to knock comment. Yes, and it

837
00:41:11,422 --> 00:41:15,462
Speaker 2: does change your behavior, like it really does. So do

838
00:41:15,542 --> 00:41:18,582
Speaker 2: you think that that comment from your daughter, as well

839
00:41:18,622 --> 00:41:19,862
Speaker 2: as a lot of the things you've been through in

840
00:41:19,902 --> 00:41:22,462
Speaker 2: the last few years with menopause and other things have

841
00:41:22,582 --> 00:41:25,062
Speaker 2: helped you get to this place of not being so

842
00:41:25,142 --> 00:41:28,181
Speaker 2: critical of your body as you literally trained yourself out

843
00:41:28,181 --> 00:41:28,341
Speaker 2: of it.

844
00:41:28,502 --> 00:41:31,422
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, I had to really work at it. It

845
00:41:31,502 --> 00:41:36,222
Speaker 1: wasn't just a natural progression. It was just a big

846
00:41:36,302 --> 00:41:39,462
Speaker 1: awakening around a whole lot of things. And part of

847
00:41:39,462 --> 00:41:44,462
Speaker 1: that was, you know, going through menopause and having a perimenopause,

848
00:41:44,542 --> 00:41:49,422
Speaker 1: having a really rough shock with it, and just thinking

849
00:41:49,462 --> 00:41:53,542
Speaker 1: about how much women go through. Just thinking about how

850
00:41:53,622 --> 00:41:58,382
Speaker 1: much pain we go through physically every month, you know,

851
00:41:58,462 --> 00:42:04,182
Speaker 1: women with endometriosis, women going through labor. It's so much

852
00:42:04,342 --> 00:42:06,422
Speaker 1: that we deal with day in and day out with

853
00:42:06,542 --> 00:42:10,181
Speaker 1: our physical bodies that we put aside, works through, we

854
00:42:10,221 --> 00:42:12,982
Speaker 1: show up for work still, we show up to school.

855
00:42:13,342 --> 00:42:17,142
Speaker 1: We push through the pain. And then it was like

856
00:42:17,302 --> 00:42:21,142
Speaker 1: and then menopause, I was like, are you kidding me?

857
00:42:22,181 --> 00:42:27,582
Speaker 1: Are you serious? This is not right. So it was like, Okay,

858
00:42:28,741 --> 00:42:31,982
Speaker 1: I am not going to push through anything anymore. I

859
00:42:32,062 --> 00:42:36,502
Speaker 1: am not gonna go Okay, I'm fine, I'll keep going,

860
00:42:36,582 --> 00:42:39,502
Speaker 1: I'll keep doing it. I'm going to actually really take

861
00:42:39,542 --> 00:42:42,341
Speaker 1: care of myself for the first time. And I've been

862
00:42:42,462 --> 00:42:45,781
Speaker 1: so mean to my body for so long as I

863
00:42:45,822 --> 00:42:49,582
Speaker 1: think the culture has and it's hard not to see

864
00:42:49,822 --> 00:42:55,182
Speaker 1: yourself the way culture does. And I'm like, no, fuck it, Yes,

865
00:42:55,342 --> 00:42:57,861
Speaker 1: I'm going to be really nice to myself now and

866
00:42:57,902 --> 00:43:00,142
Speaker 1: I'm going to give myself the self care that it's

867
00:43:00,382 --> 00:43:03,502
Speaker 1: my body's always wanted and all the nice words it's

868
00:43:03,582 --> 00:43:06,661
Speaker 1: always wanted. And I'm actually going to start to do

869
00:43:06,741 --> 00:43:10,062
Speaker 1: it now. And that's been you know, I work progress,

870
00:43:10,102 --> 00:43:12,902
Speaker 1: but it's actually made a huge, huge difference.

871
00:43:15,422 --> 00:43:17,862
Speaker 2: After the break, Ali and I talk about the falling

872
00:43:17,902 --> 00:43:21,982
Speaker 2: midlife libido and how women can feel sexy and sensual

873
00:43:22,342 --> 00:43:26,102
Speaker 2: when we're always in such a critical conversation with ourselves.

874
00:43:30,261 --> 00:43:33,102
Speaker 2: You also wrote in Queen Menopause a lot about libido

875
00:43:33,221 --> 00:43:34,902
Speaker 2: plunge and not feeling sexual.

876
00:43:35,022 --> 00:43:35,221
Speaker 1: Yep.

877
00:43:35,462 --> 00:43:39,502
Speaker 2: That is something that is so common for usut this

878
00:43:39,622 --> 00:43:40,821
Speaker 2: time in our life.

879
00:43:41,142 --> 00:43:43,462
Speaker 3: And that comes, just like all the other stuff, with

880
00:43:43,542 --> 00:43:44,222
Speaker 3: a lot of shame.

881
00:43:44,462 --> 00:43:44,661
Speaker 1: Yeah.

882
00:43:44,822 --> 00:43:47,341
Speaker 3: Sure, and sometimes it can be to do with how

883
00:43:47,382 --> 00:43:49,741
Speaker 3: my body looks. This isn't what sexy is, Yep.

884
00:43:49,822 --> 00:43:50,701
Speaker 1: This is not what.

885
00:43:50,741 --> 00:43:53,661
Speaker 2: Anybody has ever ever told me that sexy is. Ye

886
00:43:54,302 --> 00:43:56,781
Speaker 2: as well as hormonal plunges that are just meaning I

887
00:43:56,822 --> 00:44:00,942
Speaker 2: would rather eat a box of hair after being so

888
00:44:01,022 --> 00:44:03,261
Speaker 2: honest about that and writing so beautifully about it in

889
00:44:03,261 --> 00:44:05,942
Speaker 2: your book, How have you wrangled that?

890
00:44:06,502 --> 00:44:09,942
Speaker 1: I actually think that's probably the last vestige of the

891
00:44:09,942 --> 00:44:12,542
Speaker 1: place that's the most challenging for me. I can do

892
00:44:12,582 --> 00:44:16,781
Speaker 1: it with myself in partnership with Cam and feeling myself

893
00:44:17,582 --> 00:44:22,422
Speaker 1: that sensual, sexy self in this body. Now, that is

894
00:44:22,502 --> 00:44:27,502
Speaker 1: my last challenge to really overcome. He's great. I've actually

895
00:44:27,701 --> 00:44:30,341
Speaker 1: given him dialogue to say I must say. I had

896
00:44:30,422 --> 00:44:35,822
Speaker 1: to do that because he will say things that are like, Okay,

897
00:44:36,221 --> 00:44:38,502
Speaker 1: can we just back up on that comment, honey, because

898
00:44:38,502 --> 00:44:42,102
Speaker 1: that does not help me at all. I remember this.

899
00:44:42,221 --> 00:44:44,662
Speaker 1: The one comment was like, I was looking in the mirror,

900
00:44:44,661 --> 00:44:47,902
Speaker 1: going I just hate my legs. They look like they've melted.

901
00:44:48,181 --> 00:44:52,062
Speaker 1: I have cankles and like everything's just melted downwards. And

902
00:44:52,102 --> 00:44:54,341
Speaker 1: he was like, oh, honey, he goes, I don't know

903
00:44:54,382 --> 00:44:56,901
Speaker 1: why they look like that. Why do they look like that?

904
00:44:57,661 --> 00:44:59,341
Speaker 1: You know? I mean, do you need I mean we

905
00:44:59,382 --> 00:45:02,741
Speaker 1: could exercise more. And it was like the wrong thing

906
00:45:02,822 --> 00:45:05,741
Speaker 1: to say. He was like, I know you were trying

907
00:45:05,781 --> 00:45:08,381
Speaker 1: to be caring. I'm like, no, no, here's the dialogue.

908
00:45:08,781 --> 00:45:12,222
Speaker 1: I love your legs, I love you. I love everything

909
00:45:12,261 --> 00:45:15,862
Speaker 1: about you. I love the changes, You're amazing. I'll always

910
00:45:15,902 --> 00:45:18,582
Speaker 1: love you. So now I've given him that script. That's

911
00:45:18,582 --> 00:45:19,462
Speaker 1: what he says everything.

912
00:45:19,582 --> 00:45:23,462
Speaker 2: Yes, sometimes they need a script, and sometimes we need

913
00:45:23,502 --> 00:45:26,582
Speaker 2: a script too, because I think we talked about this

914
00:45:26,622 --> 00:45:29,702
Speaker 2: when we had a conversation for the Very Perry Summit.

915
00:45:30,422 --> 00:45:33,622
Speaker 2: But talking to your partner about how you feel about

916
00:45:33,622 --> 00:45:36,861
Speaker 2: your changing body, especially if you've been together a long time,

917
00:45:37,502 --> 00:45:40,781
Speaker 2: can be really hard because you don't want them to

918
00:45:40,862 --> 00:45:46,381
Speaker 2: stop seeing you as an attractive sexual person, but at

919
00:45:46,422 --> 00:45:49,582
Speaker 2: the same time, you don't feel like an attractive sexual person.

920
00:45:50,701 --> 00:45:52,462
Speaker 2: I did an interview with you and Joe Elvin about this,

921
00:45:52,502 --> 00:45:54,422
Speaker 2: and I actually went home after it and spoke to

922
00:45:54,462 --> 00:45:57,222
Speaker 2: my partner because it was like I.

923
00:45:57,102 --> 00:45:59,142
Speaker 3: Needed a script too of what to say.

924
00:45:59,181 --> 00:46:02,901
Speaker 2: And I wonder if you've got any useful tips about that,

925
00:46:02,982 --> 00:46:05,222
Speaker 2: for like the women who were in a place closer

926
00:46:05,261 --> 00:46:07,102
Speaker 2: to where you were when you were really.

927
00:46:06,822 --> 00:46:08,502
Speaker 3: Like what the fuck is happening?

928
00:46:08,822 --> 00:46:10,941
Speaker 2: And you've got to brest it to the people around you,

929
00:46:12,022 --> 00:46:13,502
Speaker 2: what was good, what was useful?

930
00:46:15,102 --> 00:46:19,102
Speaker 1: I think sometimes it helps to blow off steam more

931
00:46:19,142 --> 00:46:21,701
Speaker 1: with your girlfriends about how you're feeling. I think there

932
00:46:21,822 --> 00:46:27,062
Speaker 1: is something in that where Cam didn't notice the beard

933
00:46:27,181 --> 00:46:30,462
Speaker 1: I was growing on my gym. He did not notice that.

934
00:46:30,502 --> 00:46:32,502
Speaker 3: It is the most observant.

935
00:46:32,902 --> 00:46:35,782
Speaker 1: They're still seen. They don't give a shit. They don't

936
00:46:35,862 --> 00:46:38,462
Speaker 1: give a shit. They just want to know that you

937
00:46:38,982 --> 00:46:42,182
Speaker 1: love them. They want to know that you care about them,

938
00:46:42,622 --> 00:46:45,781
Speaker 1: because they're going through changes as well, you know. And

939
00:46:45,822 --> 00:46:49,622
Speaker 1: I've seen my husband go through dealing with you know,

940
00:46:49,741 --> 00:46:52,502
Speaker 1: gray hair and a bit of a paunch or whatever

941
00:46:52,542 --> 00:46:55,782
Speaker 1: he's got going on. You know, the whole sex libido

942
00:46:55,822 --> 00:46:58,261
Speaker 1: thing is that's a whole challenge in itself because, as

943
00:46:58,302 --> 00:47:03,301
Speaker 1: you say, there's a you've simply got chemicals happening. It's

944
00:47:03,342 --> 00:47:05,661
Speaker 1: a chemical thing that's going on in your body with

945
00:47:05,661 --> 00:47:09,781
Speaker 1: your hormones, where the libido is just nowhere to be

946
00:47:09,902 --> 00:47:13,342
Speaker 1: found in the building. But you've got everything else that's happening,

947
00:47:13,382 --> 00:47:16,261
Speaker 1: the stress of menopause, the stress of parents. You've got

948
00:47:16,302 --> 00:47:19,622
Speaker 1: the stress of young kids, sometimes the sandwich generation, as

949
00:47:19,661 --> 00:47:23,221
Speaker 1: you know it's called, and so much happening, and then

950
00:47:23,261 --> 00:47:25,542
Speaker 1: the need of your partner to connect with you on

951
00:47:25,582 --> 00:47:28,741
Speaker 1: a physical level where it's like the last thing you

952
00:47:28,781 --> 00:47:31,301
Speaker 1: want to be doing. You know. I say that in

953
00:47:31,342 --> 00:47:33,341
Speaker 1: the sense of talk to your girlfriends about it. I

954
00:47:33,382 --> 00:47:36,102
Speaker 1: feel lucky that I've got a husband that really really

955
00:47:36,142 --> 00:47:38,381
Speaker 1: wants to know what's going on. And when he knows

956
00:47:38,422 --> 00:47:41,102
Speaker 1: what's going on with me, he feels better because he's

957
00:47:41,142 --> 00:47:44,582
Speaker 1: always trying to fix something and try to figure out

958
00:47:44,781 --> 00:47:47,781
Speaker 1: why I feel sad or why I don't want to

959
00:47:47,781 --> 00:47:49,821
Speaker 1: get undressed in front of him, because he thinks it's

960
00:47:49,822 --> 00:47:52,422
Speaker 1: about him. He thinks that it's about that I don't

961
00:47:52,502 --> 00:47:56,502
Speaker 1: like him anymore. And when I say I'm just having

962
00:47:56,661 --> 00:47:59,502
Speaker 1: a real shameful moment about the changes in my body

963
00:47:59,542 --> 00:48:03,102
Speaker 1: and I'm feeling slightly embarrassed about who i am now

964
00:48:03,142 --> 00:48:06,261
Speaker 1: and that you won't find me attractive anymore, I mean

965
00:48:06,741 --> 00:48:09,381
Speaker 1: that was shocking to Cam. I was like, what are

966
00:48:09,382 --> 00:48:13,502
Speaker 1: you mean? You know? So, I think being honest like

967
00:48:13,622 --> 00:48:17,302
Speaker 1: that really really helps. And honest, you know, I always say,

968
00:48:17,422 --> 00:48:20,542
Speaker 1: if it is menopause or whatever that's changed your body

969
00:48:20,622 --> 00:48:24,821
Speaker 1: and just growing older and your partner knowing that a

970
00:48:24,862 --> 00:48:27,742
Speaker 1: lot of those changes just could not be helped because

971
00:48:27,741 --> 00:48:30,982
Speaker 1: it's due to estrogen deficiency or whatever is happening, I

972
00:48:30,982 --> 00:48:34,741
Speaker 1: think taking a partner along to like doctor visits with

973
00:48:34,781 --> 00:48:38,262
Speaker 1: you and filling them in on what you understand about

974
00:48:38,302 --> 00:48:40,781
Speaker 1: menopause and the changes in your body. I think that

975
00:48:40,902 --> 00:48:44,862
Speaker 1: really helps them as well. And then of course finding

976
00:48:44,902 --> 00:48:49,462
Speaker 1: ways to connect. That's if you're not feeling sexual, you know,

977
00:48:49,781 --> 00:48:54,102
Speaker 1: a massage, massaging their feed or doing holding hands and

978
00:48:54,701 --> 00:48:57,861
Speaker 1: words of love like that's why we work on a

979
00:48:57,902 --> 00:49:00,861
Speaker 1: lot of the time. Oh, sometimes can goes. I just

980
00:49:00,902 --> 00:49:04,142
Speaker 1: want you to tell me that you're still into me. Yeah,

981
00:49:04,502 --> 00:49:06,142
Speaker 1: just what you're to say, You're still into me, you

982
00:49:06,181 --> 00:49:08,822
Speaker 1: still find me attractive? Like that's just what he needs

983
00:49:08,862 --> 00:49:11,861
Speaker 1: because if I having sex with him, that would be

984
00:49:11,902 --> 00:49:14,221
Speaker 1: the stamp that that was what I was feeling. But

985
00:49:14,261 --> 00:49:16,741
Speaker 1: if that's not happening, then you're I need you to

986
00:49:16,822 --> 00:49:19,261
Speaker 1: tell me now. So I'm like, okay, I get that.

987
00:49:19,661 --> 00:49:22,381
Speaker 2: That's interesting, isn't it Because in straight relationships, I think

988
00:49:22,422 --> 00:49:24,102
Speaker 2: the stereotype.

989
00:49:23,422 --> 00:49:25,462
Speaker 3: Is that men don't care, do you know what I mean?

990
00:49:25,502 --> 00:49:27,502
Speaker 3: But that's not true. It's not true at all.

991
00:49:27,582 --> 00:49:30,542
Speaker 2: No, No, that self esteem is also fragile at this

992
00:49:30,661 --> 00:49:33,181
Speaker 2: time and all the rest of it. How are you

993
00:49:33,221 --> 00:49:35,022
Speaker 2: going with and I know you don't have an empty

994
00:49:35,062 --> 00:49:38,741
Speaker 2: nest quite but it's emptying out or how very like?

995
00:49:38,822 --> 00:49:39,741
Speaker 3: How's the transition?

996
00:49:40,342 --> 00:49:44,181
Speaker 1: I found it really difficult at first, really really difficult.

997
00:49:44,342 --> 00:49:49,462
Speaker 1: When our first child left the nest, I mourned that

998
00:49:49,781 --> 00:49:53,181
Speaker 1: for quite some time. It's one of those funny things too,

999
00:49:53,342 --> 00:49:57,261
Speaker 1: where you know, you speak to some parents and they're like, yes,

1000
00:49:57,342 --> 00:49:59,502
Speaker 1: but you let them go, you let them fly. You

1001
00:49:59,542 --> 00:50:02,462
Speaker 1: know you can't keep hold of them forever. And I'm like,

1002
00:50:02,701 --> 00:50:06,301
Speaker 1: I know that, but it doesn't mean I'm not going

1003
00:50:06,382 --> 00:50:08,902
Speaker 1: to be really sad that that family of five is

1004
00:50:08,982 --> 00:50:11,942
Speaker 1: now no no longer. There's no more sitting around the

1005
00:50:11,942 --> 00:50:16,022
Speaker 1: dinner table at night and being privy to the ins

1006
00:50:16,022 --> 00:50:19,981
Speaker 1: and outs of her life every day and having conversations

1007
00:50:20,022 --> 00:50:23,022
Speaker 1: whenever we want. Like the loss of that, Oh I'm.

1008
00:50:22,862 --> 00:50:23,462
Speaker 3: Going to cry.

1009
00:50:23,701 --> 00:50:28,741
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really really struggled, really struggled with it. And

1010
00:50:28,781 --> 00:50:32,062
Speaker 1: then when my son left, that was a whole other

1011
00:50:32,102 --> 00:50:37,262
Speaker 1: morning as well. Yet I can say now we're about

1012
00:50:37,302 --> 00:50:40,901
Speaker 1: two three years on from that, the change in our

1013
00:50:40,982 --> 00:50:45,062
Speaker 1: relationships or my relationships with the two older kids is

1014
00:50:45,261 --> 00:50:50,062
Speaker 1: something I really treasure now, and it's become a different

1015
00:50:50,221 --> 00:50:55,661
Speaker 1: kind of level of conversation and interest in You're where

1016
00:50:55,701 --> 00:51:00,022
Speaker 1: it does become more two adults loving each other and

1017
00:51:00,582 --> 00:51:03,501
Speaker 1: having shared interests and being able to still talk about

1018
00:51:03,502 --> 00:51:08,182
Speaker 1: your childhood but still talking about other more adult worldly things,

1019
00:51:08,221 --> 00:51:09,582
Speaker 1: and it's quite low.

1020
00:51:10,142 --> 00:51:13,181
Speaker 2: And I guess it becomes well, ideally, it's now a

1021
00:51:13,261 --> 00:51:16,901
Speaker 2: relationship of choice, right, yeah, is that they will hang

1022
00:51:16,942 --> 00:51:19,221
Speaker 2: out with you because they want to. Well, and maybe

1023
00:51:19,221 --> 00:51:22,582
Speaker 2: they need something, but they want to. It's something that

1024
00:51:22,622 --> 00:51:24,661
Speaker 2: they choose to do now rather than while you live here.

1025
00:51:24,661 --> 00:51:26,142
Speaker 2: So you have to see me every day.

1026
00:51:26,302 --> 00:51:27,182
Speaker 1: That's so true.

1027
00:51:27,302 --> 00:51:30,461
Speaker 2: And do you allow yourself to feel like a sense

1028
00:51:30,502 --> 00:51:32,622
Speaker 2: of accomplishment that they want to be around you and

1029
00:51:32,661 --> 00:51:34,341
Speaker 2: that the adult relationship is good?

1030
00:51:34,701 --> 00:51:38,221
Speaker 1: Yes and no. Like there's also been conversations, particularly with

1031
00:51:38,261 --> 00:51:42,022
Speaker 1: my son, where which I'm grateful to have, where he's

1032
00:51:42,062 --> 00:51:47,542
Speaker 1: shared things from his childhood that were especially painful, of

1033
00:51:47,822 --> 00:51:50,421
Speaker 1: things that we thought we were doing the best thing

1034
00:51:50,542 --> 00:51:53,062
Speaker 1: for him, and in fact it was really hurtful. So

1035
00:51:53,741 --> 00:51:57,782
Speaker 1: there are moments like that where you go, oh, my god,

1036
00:51:57,902 --> 00:52:00,661
Speaker 1: if only I could go back and change that aspect.

1037
00:52:01,741 --> 00:52:06,062
Speaker 1: So there's those moments where sometimes I don't feel so accomplished.

1038
00:52:06,102 --> 00:52:09,901
Speaker 1: Where I go, I mess that up for him least

1039
00:52:09,982 --> 00:52:12,381
Speaker 1: I go, he still wants to spend time with us,

1040
00:52:12,542 --> 00:52:16,142
Speaker 1: he's still wanting to come over, and he's still willing

1041
00:52:16,181 --> 00:52:19,821
Speaker 1: to share things about his childhood and I'm just grateful

1042
00:52:19,982 --> 00:52:23,142
Speaker 1: that I have that with him. Yeah, So I go

1043
00:52:23,261 --> 00:52:25,582
Speaker 1: back and forth with that, but look, if I took

1044
00:52:25,622 --> 00:52:28,902
Speaker 1: a step back, I think we've done a pretty bloody

1045
00:52:28,902 --> 00:52:31,622
Speaker 1: good job with the kids. They are good people that

1046
00:52:31,781 --> 00:52:34,462
Speaker 1: I know. They are good people with good morals, and

1047
00:52:34,462 --> 00:52:37,821
Speaker 1: they're kind and loving, and I'm like, Okay, yeah, that's good.

1048
00:52:38,701 --> 00:52:39,381
Speaker 1: I'll take that.

1049
00:52:39,622 --> 00:52:41,022
Speaker 3: They sound really good.

1050
00:52:41,422 --> 00:52:43,822
Speaker 2: Before we go, we're not here to talk about menopause,

1051
00:52:43,822 --> 00:52:44,821
Speaker 2: even though we have a little bit.

1052
00:52:44,862 --> 00:52:49,062
Speaker 3: But you are Queen menopause? Where are you up to?

1053
00:52:49,582 --> 00:52:52,901
Speaker 2: Like I kind of I feel like, you know, when

1054
00:52:52,902 --> 00:52:55,342
Speaker 2: I was preparing for our conversation, I was revisiting a

1055
00:52:55,382 --> 00:52:57,302
Speaker 2: lot of the things you were talking about around the book,

1056
00:52:57,342 --> 00:53:00,502
Speaker 2: and you have really gone through it, Like, yeah, we

1057
00:53:00,582 --> 00:53:03,341
Speaker 2: know all of our experiences are different. What's it like

1058
00:53:03,382 --> 00:53:04,142
Speaker 2: where you are now?

1059
00:53:04,582 --> 00:53:08,622
Speaker 1: I am most definitely postmenopause, which I was not when

1060
00:53:08,661 --> 00:53:12,462
Speaker 1: I was writing that book, And I think that having

1061
00:53:12,582 --> 00:53:17,142
Speaker 1: spoken to a bunch of women about postmenopause for the book,

1062
00:53:17,181 --> 00:53:21,862
Speaker 1: and then of course since touring the book and starting Aviana,

1063
00:53:22,022 --> 00:53:24,822
Speaker 1: the Wellness Platform for menopause or women that we've started,

1064
00:53:24,822 --> 00:53:32,102
Speaker 1: and just hearing further stories of women postmenopause. I got

1065
00:53:32,221 --> 00:53:37,181
Speaker 1: really really excited about postmenopause. I did feel the light

1066
00:53:37,382 --> 00:53:39,661
Speaker 1: at the end of the tunnel, and that's something that

1067
00:53:39,741 --> 00:53:42,702
Speaker 1: I'm really passionate about that women should know about because

1068
00:53:42,741 --> 00:53:45,941
Speaker 1: it can be a shit show. And to know that

1069
00:53:46,142 --> 00:53:48,221
Speaker 1: you will not always feel like that, you will not

1070
00:53:48,342 --> 00:53:51,381
Speaker 1: always feel as bad as you do right now, and

1071
00:53:51,422 --> 00:53:54,542
Speaker 1: there is help out there. Maybe for some women it

1072
00:53:54,622 --> 00:53:58,062
Speaker 1: comes automatically naturally that you know, the birds start singing

1073
00:53:58,062 --> 00:54:01,341
Speaker 1: again and you start sleeping and everything's magically delicious. I

1074
00:54:01,422 --> 00:54:04,822
Speaker 1: do know that I had to work at feeling better,

1075
00:54:05,382 --> 00:54:07,781
Speaker 1: and I have done a lot around that, you know,

1076
00:54:07,902 --> 00:54:12,622
Speaker 1: with exercise and diet and mindset and stuff. But I

1077
00:54:12,741 --> 00:54:18,022
Speaker 1: do feel happier within myself than I can ever remember.

1078
00:54:18,622 --> 00:54:20,462
Speaker 3: That is something to look forward to.

1079
00:54:20,542 --> 00:54:20,582
Speaker 1: It.

1080
00:54:20,741 --> 00:54:23,702
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's the one thing you would tell somebody who's

1081
00:54:23,781 --> 00:54:24,502
Speaker 2: where you were.

1082
00:54:25,221 --> 00:54:30,821
Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely continue to seek assistance and help. Don't just

1083
00:54:30,942 --> 00:54:33,821
Speaker 1: go I'll just put up with it till this is over.

1084
00:54:34,221 --> 00:54:37,622
Speaker 1: There is a lot of great help out there. And yeah,

1085
00:54:37,661 --> 00:54:41,662
Speaker 1: to know that there is definitely a world a life

1086
00:54:41,942 --> 00:54:45,221
Speaker 1: experience is ahead of you that are really joyful and

1087
00:54:45,302 --> 00:54:49,181
Speaker 1: fun and wonderful, And now is the time more than

1088
00:54:49,462 --> 00:54:53,982
Speaker 1: your entire life experience. You deserve to be well taken

1089
00:54:54,022 --> 00:54:57,542
Speaker 1: care of, and do it. Spend the money on yourself

1090
00:54:57,661 --> 00:55:00,742
Speaker 1: if you can do it. Don't think that oh I can't.

1091
00:55:00,982 --> 00:55:03,542
Speaker 1: You know, oh I don't have the time. Make the

1092
00:55:03,622 --> 00:55:06,062
Speaker 1: time for you. It's so important.

1093
00:55:11,022 --> 00:55:12,382
Speaker 3: A bloody love, Ali Dado.

1094
00:55:12,781 --> 00:55:14,901
Speaker 2: I've spoken to her a few times over the years

1095
00:55:14,902 --> 00:55:16,821
Speaker 2: because of some of you all know, I've worked with

1096
00:55:16,862 --> 00:55:19,142
Speaker 2: her brother in law for the longest time. We hosted

1097
00:55:19,142 --> 00:55:21,981
Speaker 2: a show together called This Glorious Mess. And every time

1098
00:55:21,982 --> 00:55:25,862
Speaker 2: I've interviewed her about family, about menopause, about this issue,

1099
00:55:26,181 --> 00:55:28,781
Speaker 2: I find her just very real and very honest and

1100
00:55:28,902 --> 00:55:31,661
Speaker 2: very thoughtful. I know you want to know, so I'm

1101
00:55:31,701 --> 00:55:34,422
Speaker 2: also going to tell you, yes, she looks bloody great.

1102
00:55:35,022 --> 00:55:35,901
Speaker 3: Not great for.

1103
00:55:35,982 --> 00:55:38,741
Speaker 2: Her age, but great for any age. You can see

1104
00:55:38,781 --> 00:55:41,102
Speaker 2: the pictures for yourself. But she came into the studio

1105
00:55:41,261 --> 00:55:43,862
Speaker 2: in a very cool dead and boiler suit, all hair

1106
00:55:43,942 --> 00:55:47,062
Speaker 2: and glowing skin and big grin. She looks like she's

1107
00:55:47,102 --> 00:55:49,421
Speaker 2: settled into that place I said I wanted to get

1108
00:55:49,422 --> 00:55:52,582
Speaker 2: to in my intro, a place of comfort and confidence.

1109
00:55:53,102 --> 00:55:55,862
Speaker 2: But knowing midlife, it might just be a visit. Because

1110
00:55:55,902 --> 00:55:58,741
Speaker 2: Holly knows what'll come next. It just keeps throwing curveballs,

1111
00:55:59,221 --> 00:56:01,981
Speaker 2: which is why, of course, we're going to be back

1112
00:56:02,382 --> 00:56:05,781
Speaker 2: very soon with season three of your show, and we'll

1113
00:56:05,781 --> 00:56:09,701
Speaker 2: be talking about divorce and change and food and sexual

1114
00:56:10,022 --> 00:56:15,582
Speaker 2: and you know, more of the good stuff. I can't

1115
00:56:15,622 --> 00:56:17,741
Speaker 2: thank you all enough for being here with us through

1116
00:56:17,781 --> 00:56:21,542
Speaker 2: season two of Mid. Please if this body image conversation resonated,

1117
00:56:21,622 --> 00:56:23,861
Speaker 2: go and listen to our conversation from season one with

1118
00:56:23,942 --> 00:56:28,102
Speaker 2: Helen Thorn about bodies because she was hilarious and honest

1119
00:56:28,181 --> 00:56:31,301
Speaker 2: about her midlife body transformation and you're going to laugh

1120
00:56:31,302 --> 00:56:35,102
Speaker 2: so much again to we. But anyway, thank you, thank you,

1121
00:56:35,261 --> 00:56:38,661
Speaker 2: and thank you to our Mid team. That's our EP

1122
00:56:38,982 --> 00:56:42,422
Speaker 2: name A Brown, our producers to Elisabezazz and Charlie Blackman,

1123
00:56:42,781 --> 00:56:45,982
Speaker 2: sound design and audio production from Leah Porge's and Tom Lyon,

1124
00:56:46,302 --> 00:56:49,821
Speaker 2: and social media video production by Josh Green and I'm

1125
00:56:49,902 --> 00:56:50,661
Speaker 2: hollywayin right.

1126
00:56:50,781 --> 00:56:52,622
Speaker 3: And we'll see you back here in.

1127
00:56:52,661 --> 00:56:56,701
Speaker 2: Just a few weeks on October the fifteenth, not long ago.

1128
00:56:57,221 --> 00:57:12,022
Speaker 5: Goodbye. Nine