Speaker 1: We acknowledged the traditional custodians of the land. We're recording
Speaker 1: on today.
Speaker 2: When you're a first time mom, you're learning how to
Speaker 2: be a mom and your baby's learning how to be
Speaker 2: a baby. But when you're a second time mom, your
Speaker 2: baby's still learning how to be a baby, but you
Speaker 2: already know how to be a mom.
Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome back to Eat, Sleep, Shit, Repeat, a
Speaker 3: wildly unhinged podcast about the madness that is motherhood and
Speaker 3: everything in between.
Speaker 4: I'm Kelly McCarron and.
Speaker 1: I'm Key Researls. And in case she missed it, last week,
Speaker 1: we spoke about raising biracial or multi racial kids in
Speaker 1: Australia and we spoke to our lovely shit of Juliet
Speaker 1: who shared her experience. So I hope that our shit
Speaker 1: is loved it too.
Speaker 3: It was such a good episode and I just love
Speaker 3: that we get to chat about such a diverse range
Speaker 3: of topics.
Speaker 4: Yes, diverse, get it.
Speaker 1: Diverse love We love the diversity. Well, today we're delving
Speaker 1: into what it's real like going from one to two,
Speaker 1: How do you decide to grow your family? Are you
Speaker 1: ever even ready? And what was it like? Honestly, but first,
Speaker 1: my peek and pit. I thought I might start with
Speaker 1: my pit.
Speaker 3: Well, yes, that's the way that we always should do it,
Speaker 3: I think, so that we're not ending on a.
Speaker 1: Me and I just want to also say it's not
Speaker 1: as depressing as my previous pit. That's somewhere to start.
Speaker 1: Things are looking up, things are logging up. Basically, I've
Speaker 1: come to the conclusion that I will need to put
Speaker 1: rue into an extra day of daycare.
Speaker 3: And remember last year when you thought you'd only need
Speaker 3: the two.
Speaker 1: Days, Yeah, well thank god I went up to three
Speaker 1: because I would have been really left. She's currently in
Speaker 1: Monday to Wednesday, and then I have two days with
Speaker 1: her Thursday Friday. We often will pick up an extra
Speaker 1: day based on like how busy my work week is.
Speaker 1: But it's just proving to me that it's practically every
Speaker 1: week where I'm considering putting your in an extra day,
Speaker 1: and then you've got the stress of not knowing if
Speaker 1: that day's of AILA exactly. And more and more people
Speaker 1: are on waiting lists, and usually the Thursday and Friday
Speaker 1: of the days that tend to come up that they
Speaker 1: just say, well take these days. So I'm like, shit,
Speaker 1: I need to make a decision really soon. What kind
Speaker 1: of pushed me down that decision making funnel, if you will,
Speaker 1: is that last week, the feeling and the accomplishment and
Speaker 1: the confidence I had and in just having that extra
Speaker 1: day of work and being able to.
Speaker 3: You were smashing it out. She was like just standing
Speaker 3: through this bah blah blah blah, like, yes, on top
Speaker 3: of everything exactly.
Speaker 1: And I think what I've been realized is that I've
Speaker 1: been really chasing my tail. I've been trying a good
Speaker 1: feeling so hard. No, it just makes you feel like
Speaker 1: you're everything exactly because it seeps into every aspect and
Speaker 1: then the time that I do have with rue, like
Speaker 1: if she's sleeping on a Thursday or Friday, I'm doing.
Speaker 4: Something in all lunch age.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm working every night after I put her
Speaker 1: to bed, and then quite often I'll get up early
Speaker 1: in the morning to get ahead, and it's just not
Speaker 1: feasible anymore. Like I need to have more days that
Speaker 1: are dedicated to work so that I can be a
Speaker 1: better mum in the time that I am, and also
Speaker 1: just better to myself, like being able to do things
Speaker 1: for myself that I wouldn't be able to do necessarily
Speaker 1: not having a little bit more extra time.
Speaker 3: And I understand why it's your pit, because mum girl
Speaker 3: makes you feel like she's in daycare more days and
Speaker 3: she's not all of that stuff that I went through.
Speaker 1: I remember we had this conversation pit last year at.
Speaker 4: The end of last year fourth day.
Speaker 3: But at the moment it's a really bad example because
Speaker 3: I'm also chasing my tail four days. But generally the
Speaker 3: Friday is like the Mummy Lenny Day and we do
Speaker 3: something really fun. Yeah, I don't even really go on
Speaker 3: my phone unless it is to take like a cute
Speaker 3: photo of him. Yeah that I don't even then, Like
Speaker 3: I'm not on socials, like it's just our day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good, Like it is obviously sad, right, it
Speaker 1: really is the end of that kind of time that
Speaker 1: we've had.
Speaker 3: Together until she's sick.
Speaker 1: Until she's sick, and then you'll be like and I'm like, cool,
Speaker 1: I'm just paying for these days, not doing any work.
Speaker 3: I'm a contract rid and get paid when I don't exactly.
Speaker 1: I think I've drawn it out for long enough. Like
Speaker 1: I'm very aware that it is not normal that most
Speaker 1: people could do three days of work and two off.
Speaker 1: But in saying that, I'm not really doing three days
Speaker 1: of work. I'm still doing the work, it's just not
Speaker 1: in a formalized way. So I think it's a little
Speaker 1: bit heartbreaking just because of maybe my peak. I'm feeling
Speaker 1: like a little bit of nostalgia for having just Rue
Speaker 1: and spending all my time with her. What's the peak?
Speaker 4: So the peak is that I am with child.
Speaker 1: She is the ladies and gentlemen, I am all the
Speaker 1: way up the dove, and she is impregnated.
Speaker 4: Her womb is thriving.
Speaker 3: It's throbbing, it is throbbing, it is very engorged.
Speaker 1: It's so bad. Yes, I'm so excited. I'm now in
Speaker 1: the clear so I can talk about it, and.
Speaker 4: That in the clear. Things so annoying though, like.
Speaker 3: I mean, especially after everyone I know, but like especially
Speaker 3: I guess after your last experience, you totally get it.
Speaker 1: But it's also like, yeah.
Speaker 3: You're like I want to tell everyone, and I did.
Speaker 1: Having the best carriage didn't impact this time around me
Speaker 1: telling the people that I need it too, because I
Speaker 1: still felt like this is happy news, like we need
Speaker 1: to share it. I need to have that support there,
Speaker 1: and just with all the other shit stuff that's been
Speaker 1: going on, like it's nice to have something happy to
Speaker 1: talk about. So that's been really important.
Speaker 3: And when people ask me if they should tell people
Speaker 3: when they're pregnant, I always say, go for it. If
Speaker 3: you do, Miscarrie, you want your people around.
Speaker 4: You totally totally.
Speaker 3: You can't just internalize all of that. It's not good
Speaker 3: for you. You need people around you to grieve with you.
Speaker 1: Oh totally. And you just need people to under.
Speaker 3: Stan like, oh, why you're a bit shit at the time,
Speaker 3: because well, your body's trying to get rid of a
Speaker 3: human that you really wanted exactly awful.
Speaker 1: But this baby is, Oh, it's in there. It's strong, strong,
Speaker 1: straight out of the gate.
Speaker 3: Tell everyone how different this pregnancy has been straight out
Speaker 3: of the gate from your other two pregnancies, Like just wild,
Speaker 3: so insane. My last baby was definitely a girl for.
Speaker 1: Sure, because this one has just been so different, different
Speaker 1: and strong and taking everything from me. Like from when
Speaker 1: I peed on the stick and it came up instantly,
Speaker 1: and this is before my miss period. I've never tested
Speaker 1: positive before a miss period, and in fact, most cases
Speaker 1: I've tested positive two to three days after a miss period,
Speaker 1: and I've had to go and get a secondary blood
Speaker 1: test to make sure that my hateg sea levels.
Speaker 3: Arise because the lines have been so faint correct and
Speaker 3: the line's.
Speaker 1: Been faint, and then also the hateg sea levels are low,
Speaker 1: so they're like, all right, well, we just want to
Speaker 1: make sure that there is a healthy baby in there.
Speaker 1: And obviously with rul was fine. With the second maybe
Speaker 1: not so much, but this baby six days before my
Speaker 1: missed period. I couldn't get the cap on quick enough.
Speaker 3: And what was the reason that you did pee on
Speaker 3: the stick?
Speaker 4: In the end, what happened was.
Speaker 1: We were going away for the weekend and it was
Speaker 1: a Friday, Yeah, And I woke up in the morning
Speaker 1: and I was like, and then we had bought all
Speaker 1: this beautiful wine. We're gonna have a really great weekend.
Speaker 1: I wasn't. But the thing was, we had been trying
Speaker 1: since really February, yes, since you periods came back, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not going to test until after
Speaker 1: my missed period or like when my periods meant to come.
Speaker 1: I'm just not going to do that to myself this
Speaker 1: time around. And then I woke up on that morning
Speaker 1: and I was like, I wonder how because I wasn't
Speaker 1: keeping track at all. I was like I wonder when
Speaker 1: I want to get my period, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you didn't even have the app. I just wasn't looking
Speaker 1: at it. Oh okay. I knew like it was coming,
Speaker 1: that this was like the week that it would come.
Speaker 1: And then I was like, oh shit, okay, I could
Speaker 1: take a test right now. I wonder if I've got
Speaker 1: any because I didn't buy any. I had one, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, fuck it, I'll just do it.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be negative anyway. I'd just gotten too that
Speaker 1: mentality because we've been having so much.
Speaker 3: Say, they were doing every single thing I think.
Speaker 1: We talked about. The we talked about yeah on.
Speaker 3: An episode was so funny, but he was just like
Speaker 3: raw dogging Charlie several times a day on every possible ovulation.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of take too much and basically just.
Speaker 4: Like a jizz basket.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I just thought like, obviously, my cycle's just
Speaker 1: still off. And it was really like I felt like
Speaker 1: the time when we did get pregnant, we changed things
Speaker 1: up a little bit. I use the fourteen day ovulation sticks,
Speaker 1: so you test every single day, because those digital ovulation
Speaker 1: sticks were not accurate, like it was saying, I.
Speaker 4: Used to use the happy smile ones well, because.
Speaker 1: My cycle was off. I think I was testing at
Speaker 1: the wrong time. Oh so the fourteen day tests you
Speaker 1: test from I think the first day of your period,
Speaker 1: and so you see when it spikes and then you
Speaker 1: know exactly when it spikes instead of like catching the
Speaker 1: tail end spike.
Speaker 4: That makes sense.
Speaker 1: So for me that was more accurate because what I
Speaker 1: thought was happening, and it was saying on my app
Speaker 1: with two different things.
Speaker 3: For anyone playing long at home, make sure you do
Speaker 3: know when you're spiking. Because like my girlfriend Ashley, she
Speaker 3: felt pregnant from pre come two days after her period
Speaker 3: finished with Bailey.
Speaker 1: Oh pre come, my gosh, I didn't know.
Speaker 3: She was ovulating at that time.
Speaker 1: That fucking wild.
Speaker 3: She's the most fertile, so she just has to look
Speaker 3: at Matt's stick and she's like.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm with child another one.
Speaker 3: Sorry actually for outing you there, Sorry about that.
Speaker 1: She's on this episode episode. Sorry ash So, I peed
Speaker 1: on the stick and I couldn't get the lid on
Speaker 1: quick enough before the fucking line came up, and it
Speaker 1: was so prominent, so prominent in here that I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: my fucking god, did you think it was a malfunction twin. No,
Speaker 1: I was like, it's twins.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I thought it was twins for a long time too.
Speaker 1: And I called my girlfriend Hannah and I was like,
Speaker 1: told her. She's like, well, there's always the first person
Speaker 1: I tell, even more so than Charlie. Well, Charlie was there,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, babe, look at this. Oh
Speaker 1: You're like, why did I do this?
Speaker 4: On Monday, after the weekend.
Speaker 1: It had been also, to give a bit of context,
Speaker 1: I had reached the end of my tether with trying.
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know if it's the right time, Like,
Speaker 1: I'm just so emotional. It's feeling to every much every month.
Speaker 4: Was another blow to you.
Speaker 1: And I was getting really consumed by it. And I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't want to get that way. I
Speaker 1: just think, you know, the night before, we'd even spoken
Speaker 1: about like, all right, well if it's negative, then we'll
Speaker 1: just maybe have a break. Of course you did, and
Speaker 1: of course you know, of course he said. So I'm like, Charlie,
Speaker 1: look at this, and he's like, oh my god, so excited,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, I just got my head around
Speaker 1: the other wise.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just thought to myself, oh, I was kind
Speaker 3: of ready for a bit of a baite.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then I'm like, all right, cool, so it's
Speaker 1: not just no, it isn't twins.
Speaker 4: It's just confirmed with one baby.
Speaker 1: God, but imagine the content. Yeah, it would have been cute.
Speaker 1: I was actually, yeah, cool, got my three. Because Charlie
Speaker 1: and I go back and forth on that. I'm more
Speaker 1: in the two camp now after this fucking pregnancy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah.
Speaker 1: Mahannah was like ah, and I was like, oh, the
Speaker 1: only time that really happens, right is when there's twins,
Speaker 1: and she's like, I mean you said it. I was
Speaker 1: thinking it so a boy because it was the same
Speaker 1: or a boy yeah, because I told a lot of
Speaker 1: my other girlfriends and they were like, yeah, big boy energy.
Speaker 1: And I was sick for nine weeks, so ill, not vomiting,
Speaker 1: just fucking so nauseous all the time, so faint, which
Speaker 1: is normal because I have really low blood pressure, and
Speaker 1: when I'm.
Speaker 3: Pregnant, hired the most tired I have ever been. Do
Speaker 3: you know what I thought during that nine weeks? I
Speaker 3: thought pregnant people are annoying. If you don't, I don't know,
Speaker 3: And I thought to myself. Luckily I never worked with
Speaker 3: anyone closely when they were pregnant before I'd been pregnant.
Speaker 3: The thing is you'd have to tell people if you
Speaker 3: were that sick. But like if I didn't know that
Speaker 3: you're pregnant, and if I'd never been pregnant before, So
Speaker 3: I understood, Yeah, driven me up for wooll.
Speaker 4: I I've got to have another snirky like.
Speaker 1: It was bad. I only really worked between the hours
Speaker 1: of nine till twelve, and now I was done.
Speaker 3: I understood every odor of what you were going through
Speaker 3: because that was what my pregnancy was like.
Speaker 4: But it wasn't for you with rue.
Speaker 3: No, you didn't actually start vomiting, though, did you, because
Speaker 3: you can manage it with snacks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just like I had to eat a
Speaker 1: shalload of food.
Speaker 3: But it feels like you're perpetually hungover. It's almost like
Speaker 3: some people say that they wish that they did vomit,
Speaker 3: because then it would.
Speaker 4: Like he maybe never did that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, it was like I had to be eating twenty
Speaker 1: four seven.
Speaker 5: The only time.
Speaker 4: I to be fair, I wouldn't say that's actually stopped.
Speaker 4: It hasn't.
Speaker 1: It hasn't.
Speaker 3: But the nausea, Yeah, you were so unwell. It was
Speaker 3: it fucked up for mental health because it's very debilitating.
Speaker 3: And then you think, oh, I should be so happy,
Speaker 3: this baby is so wanted, but it's very hard to
Speaker 3: feel so happy and positive when you feel awful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a lot, and you cranky two year old. Well,
Speaker 1: actually she does understand, which is weird. Like she's just
Speaker 1: so excited and like she's going to be sisters. Really sweet,
Speaker 1: but like Charlie had to leave work early often, like
Speaker 1: I was bedridden when I didn't have to do anything.
Speaker 1: I was in bed having you know, three or four
Speaker 1: hour napps.
Speaker 3: And I would like send messages with our plans for
Speaker 3: the day and be like it's okay, you can leave
Speaker 3: it too, so you can go home and have your
Speaker 3: kid before you.
Speaker 1: And Lucy were very supportive during that time. I just
Speaker 1: felt like I was not disappointing, but I just felt
Speaker 1: like I was not pulling my weight. But it's as
Speaker 1: a mom, as a business partnering.
Speaker 3: A human, and I think that we forget just how
Speaker 3: taxing it is.
Speaker 4: And it's all well and good.
Speaker 3: If you have a really easy, lovely pregnancy and you
Speaker 3: don't find it hard, that is amazing, but it isn't
Speaker 3: uncommon to be quite ill, especially during that first to
Speaker 3: try mester. You are growing a human being with your body.
Speaker 3: We need to remember that and you need to remember
Speaker 3: it and be kind to yourself for the next six
Speaker 3: five and a half months how long it is, because
Speaker 3: you're growing a human Like if you're feeling down on yourself, Oh,
Speaker 3: I'm disappointing people.
Speaker 4: No, you probably grow a leg.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, Well that was what was so order today.
Speaker 1: I know I grew a little hart when I went
Speaker 1: to the obstcution on Monday. That was like kind of
Speaker 1: the first time i'd seen the baby since, you know,
Speaker 1: like the seven week mark.
Speaker 3: And in seven weeks it's just like not even it
Speaker 3: looks like.
Speaker 1: I was like, doesn't look like a tadpole. She would
Speaker 1: have she would, but I was like this anyways, But
Speaker 1: when I saw the baby on the screen this week,
Speaker 1: I was like, it had arms and legs and finger
Speaker 1: baby it was around. It was so like animated.
Speaker 3: See boy, he's in their bouncing already. Rue was just
Speaker 3: like such a chiller, just chilled in there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. She was like, I'm like pretty sure it's going
Speaker 1: to be crazy. Like me, I'm like, it's.
Speaker 4: Going to be a crazy baby. Baby boy.
Speaker 3: Yes, Len, such beautiful good news. Yeah, and so like
Speaker 3: you have had the shittiest year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's nice to have something.
Speaker 3: I think it's a gift from Deb deb center.
Speaker 1: There's nothing more in life that she loved than kids. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, we're bring her debs angel.
Speaker 4: Oh very cute. That is beautiful.
Speaker 1: Should I have a second baby? It was one of
Speaker 1: our top back Well it's a little bit too late
Speaker 1: for that. Well, it was one of our top performing episode.
Speaker 1: It's where we learned that you Kell are firmly in
Speaker 1: the no camp, one and done camp.
Speaker 4: Even though you're like, are you sure?
Speaker 1: A little surprised at forty? Maybe at forty, dear lord,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm giving you a bit of time,
Speaker 1: bit of time, so it's happening and I am shitting myself,
Speaker 1: So Kel, I thought I might just check you still
Speaker 1: want and done.
Speaker 3: Funnily enough, after that episode went live, I think I
Speaker 3: said to you maybe next year I would consider falling
Speaker 3: pregnant again because the response from the shit is was
Speaker 3: so beautiful and really helpful. The community that we've got
Speaker 3: is just so lovely because they give advice without being
Speaker 3: annoying at all.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, they get us.
Speaker 3: But a lot of people pointed out that my cons
Speaker 3: list was very short term, yeah, and that the pros
Speaker 3: are all long term yeah. And that really impacted the
Speaker 3: way that I thought about it because I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: that is so true, and it devastates me not giving
Speaker 3: Len a sibling because he loves playing with kids so much,
Speaker 3: and I love it when people oh it's fine. I'm like,
Speaker 3: I know, it's fine.
Speaker 1: But two things can be true at once. It's fine,
Speaker 1: but you're also sad.
Speaker 3: Exactly, and he loves playing more than anything with other kids. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so it's just, you know a little bit, I feel slack.
Speaker 3: So that was what I said to you and Luke
Speaker 3: after that too.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I was like, I think that if we're in a good.
Speaker 3: Place next year, we can give it a go.
Speaker 1: Give it a go.
Speaker 3: And then I found out I had a brain aneurysm,
Speaker 3: and I was like, at the moment, I don't have
Speaker 3: a long term plan for anything because I don't know
Speaker 3: what the future is looking like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, currently, which.
Speaker 1: Is so fair, and I don't really are responsible and I.
Speaker 3: Don't know what the impact of a pregnancy would.
Speaker 4: Be on my body.
Speaker 1: That would be my concern because a lot of health
Speaker 1: issues come from pregnancy, and it's like, exactly, it can
Speaker 1: really have an effect on it. So I think it's
Speaker 1: a responsible decision.
Speaker 3: My mental health is also in the toilet at the moment,
Speaker 3: so definitely back to camp one and done.
Speaker 1: All right, And I support that. I think it's great choice. Well,
Speaker 1: a girl can.
Speaker 3: Try it, and she will continue to do so in
Speaker 3: a friendly manner.
Speaker 1: With a friendly manner, I'll just give it a little
Speaker 1: edge across the line. Well, because that went so well
Speaker 1: and because of well, my current condition, we thought an
Speaker 1: episode talking to mums who decided to do it all
Speaker 1: over again would compliment nicely.
Speaker 3: And we're going to talk to two sites because obviously
Speaker 3: we've got no experience. You don't want to hear from
Speaker 3: us with going from one to two because I think
Speaker 3: people's experiences can be so vastly different. I hear more
Speaker 3: often than not that zero to one is way harder
Speaker 3: than one to two, But some people say one to
Speaker 3: two hits their system way more than zero to one.
Speaker 3: So I just think it's really interesting to hear different
Speaker 3: people's perspectives on that. So we're going to be talking
Speaker 3: to my bestie Ashley. We had her on talking about
Speaker 3: gentle parenting and how she manages her three children with
Speaker 3: all of their very big feelings. And Zoe a mum
Speaker 3: to two boys and a very dear friend of keys.
Speaker 3: So we're going to be talking through the highs and
Speaker 3: lows of becoming a mum of two, but we're keeping
Speaker 3: it real choosing the two different stories, someone who thrived
Speaker 3: and someone who just survived.
Speaker 1: Is it all worth it though spoiler.
Speaker 4: Yes, and it might not always be easy, but I guess.
Speaker 1: That is life it is. So First up is Zoe,
Speaker 1: so Kel mentioned she's a dear friend whose first pregnancy
Speaker 1: and birth didn't go exactly to plan, but it brought
Speaker 1: her the most delicious little boy, Max, and even after
Speaker 1: her experience, she was raring and ready to go for
Speaker 1: a second and recently gave birth to equally the most
Speaker 1: delicious boy called Joe. Welcome Zoe, Please tell us about
Speaker 1: your gorgeous fam.
Speaker 5: Hey, guys, lovely to be here.
Speaker 2: So I am a mum to Max who is two
Speaker 2: and a half and Joe, who is just coming up
Speaker 2: on eight months old.
Speaker 4: That is a small age, yap.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right. They are twenty one months apart.
Speaker 1: Which is why we wanted to talk to you because
Speaker 1: we need to know how it all went. So, how
Speaker 1: did you know that you were ready to start your
Speaker 1: family pre Max? Like, what conversations did you guys have?
Speaker 1: How did you come to that conclusion?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's a really interesting question for us.
Speaker 2: I think probably similar to you guys, anybody who has
Speaker 2: kids around the same age.
Speaker 5: It was really influenced by COVID. I think we had
Speaker 5: thought that we.
Speaker 2: Might want to wait a couple more years, but to
Speaker 2: be in a position where we couldn't really travel, we
Speaker 2: kind of felt stuck at home. Their wasn't, to be honest,
Speaker 2: a huge amount going on. It just sort of was like, well,
Speaker 2: why in the next couple of years anyway, honestly, why not,
Speaker 2: let's give it a go and see what happened.
Speaker 1: I love that same talk me through your pregnancy and
Speaker 1: birth with Max.
Speaker 2: The start of my pregnancy with Max all kind of
Speaker 2: went normal and to plan until about the twenty week
Speaker 2: mark when we found out that he was measuring really small,
Speaker 2: and from there we did a bunch of tests and
Speaker 2: it was all a little bit up in the air.
Speaker 2: We didn't really know what was wrong with him, but
Speaker 2: basically he was just getting smaller and smaller week on week,
Speaker 2: and at about the twenty eight week mark, I was
Speaker 2: diagnosed with pre acclamcyer, which came as quite a surprise
Speaker 2: because it sort of hadn't been brought up to me
Speaker 2: as a possibility before then. But in a way it
Speaker 2: was a relief because that was the explanation for his
Speaker 2: restricted growth. Once we knew that, we had a little
Speaker 2: bit more clarity on what his future would look like.
Speaker 2: And from the twenty eight week mark, I was kind
Speaker 2: of in and out of hospital every couple of days,
Speaker 2: and we knew that he would be delivered early, and in.
Speaker 5: The end he ended up being born at thirty two weeks.
Speaker 2: I had an emergency c section because my blood pressure
Speaker 2: was climbing and we couldn't keep it under control. So yes,
Speaker 2: he was delivered at thirty two weeks and he spent
Speaker 2: five weeks in the nicqu which was, as you can imagine,
Speaker 2: quite an intense time. But he was just an absolute
Speaker 2: little fighter from day one. He went from strength to
Speaker 2: strength from the moment he was born, and so yeah,
Speaker 2: we got to take him home at the five week
Speaker 2: mark and from there we kind of sort of started
Speaker 2: our normal baby journey from about the five week mark,
Speaker 2: which was still because he was eight weeks premature, that
Speaker 2: was still three weeks before his due date that we
Speaker 2: took him home.
Speaker 3: So how did you find that first year of parenting?
Speaker 5: Look, it was really intense.
Speaker 2: I mean obviously those first five weeks were really intense.
Speaker 2: But I think, you know, I'm a really positive person,
Speaker 2: and I think, what's your secret?
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just think, you know, I almost felt like, well,
Speaker 2: the worst has already happened. You know, We've spent that
Speaker 2: time in hospital, I've had a really sick baby. And
Speaker 2: my perspective on it was really like, obviously there's health
Speaker 2: issues that they can cut up against from being premature.
Speaker 2: Luckily Max hasn't had any of them. But I sort
Speaker 2: of just thought like, well, it can only really get
Speaker 2: better from here, and I was just honestly so stoked
Speaker 2: to have him home that every day kind of felt.
Speaker 5: Like a gift.
Speaker 1: Really.
Speaker 2: I think I probably would have had that perspective anyway,
Speaker 2: because it's sort of in my nature. But to have
Speaker 2: had the flip side and to leave the hospital without him,
Speaker 2: which was, you know, one of the hardest things I've
Speaker 2: ever done. Just to be able to have him with
Speaker 2: me felt really kind of special, and so it just
Speaker 2: really puts it into perspective, like those kind of middle
Speaker 2: of the night like, oh my god, I can't believe,
Speaker 2: you know, the baby's crying again. I can't believe he's
Speaker 2: woken up for the eighth time or whatever it is,
Speaker 2: and you're kind of like, well, in another universe, he's
Speaker 2: not here, he's not with me, he didn't make it home,
Speaker 2: or he is you know, still unwell. And so that
Speaker 2: just kind of felt like, well, this is the best
Speaker 2: case scenario.
Speaker 4: You know, what a beautiful way to look at it.
Speaker 1: It's that perspective, isn't it that I think all of
Speaker 1: us we don't always have readily available to kind of
Speaker 1: pull from because I'm thinking of how this experience would influence,
Speaker 1: you know, the choice to have a second Like all
Speaker 1: new mothers compare, right, because you have this kind of
Speaker 1: like baseline of where your kids should be at and
Speaker 1: that's kind of you will gather around and talk about
Speaker 1: these milestones together. Was that hard in that your experience
Speaker 1: was unique in comparison to the women that you were
Speaker 1: kind of put with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a little bit hard, and I think
Speaker 2: my husband and I basically just had to make the
Speaker 2: decision from the very first week that we were at
Speaker 2: home with Max that we couldn't be comparing him against
Speaker 2: kids his own age, and to be honest, we couldn't
Speaker 2: even really be comparing him against kids his corrected age
Speaker 2: because he was behind those kids too. You know, he
Speaker 2: had quite a traumatic start to life. He was really underweight,
Speaker 2: and so I basically just went into that mother's group
Speaker 2: basically thinking, all of these kids are going to do
Speaker 2: stuff ahead of my kid, and that's just the way
Speaker 2: it's going to be, and to sort of just let
Speaker 2: that wash over me and not bother me too much.
Speaker 2: One of the real benefits though, which I think other
Speaker 2: people who have had babies in nick you will agree with,
Speaker 2: it actually does teach them to sleep quite well because
Speaker 2: they have.
Speaker 5: To be on a schedule.
Speaker 3: My sister said exactly the same thing because her second
Speaker 3: was born prem me and also spent a couple of
Speaker 3: weeks in the NICKU, And yeah, she was like, you're
Speaker 3: not even allowed to sleep train babies, but I think
Speaker 3: they do because he sleeps.
Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, And like, obviously you wouldn't obviously wish it
Speaker 2: for yourself, but you're like, well, if you have to
Speaker 2: get a little bit of a silver lining out of it.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: He was on a schedule when he came home where
Speaker 2: he was fed every three hours literally because they didn't
Speaker 2: have enough staff.
Speaker 5: The babies have to.
Speaker 2: Be on a rotation, you know, and so we brought
Speaker 2: him home and we just kind of kept feeding him
Speaker 2: every three hours until a doctor told us we could
Speaker 2: feed him every four hours, which in one way, you know,
Speaker 2: there was a couple of newborns who might have been
Speaker 2: having longer stretches overnight than that, But then I also
Speaker 2: have new people whose newborns were up every hour or
Speaker 2: every two hours. So at least we had some kind
Speaker 2: of predictability where, you know, I could go to a
Speaker 2: lartie's class and be like, yeah, well he fared at nine,
Speaker 2: so he absolutely won't beat again until twelve.
Speaker 5: And that's kind of now that.
Speaker 2: I've had another child, I'm like, oh, you don't get
Speaker 2: that with every baby.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of nice that that is something that
Speaker 1: you get out of it, though, because the weeks that
Speaker 1: you would have spent away from him would have been awful.
Speaker 1: So to be able just to really enjoy the moments
Speaker 1: of being home and it's already hard anyway, but just
Speaker 1: having a little bit easier would be I think quite nice.
Speaker 1: So then talk us through, how did you know that
Speaker 1: you were ready to go for a second And did
Speaker 1: your experience with Max impact your decision to start trying
Speaker 1: for a second.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was actually, honestly one of those things where
Speaker 2: I thought, if I think too much on it, I
Speaker 2: think I might sack myself out. We got to a
Speaker 2: really good place with Max when he was about nine
Speaker 2: months old, where he hadn't fully caught up, but he
Speaker 2: was thriving basically, you know, he had put on a
Speaker 2: bunch of weight, he was meeting all of his milestone
Speaker 2: We could tell that he didn't have any kind of
Speaker 2: serious health issues arising from being PREMI I always knew
Speaker 2: that I wanted to, if not more kids, and my
Speaker 2: obstric had told me that I could start trying again
Speaker 2: when Max was twelve months old, and I kind of
Speaker 2: just thought, Margaret, you know, like, I love him so much.
Speaker 2: He's been an absolute delight, and I think if I
Speaker 2: dwell too much on the possibility that things could go
Speaker 2: wrong again, I might be waiting forever to roll the
Speaker 2: dice again. And so I think I just thought, look,
Speaker 2: I'm the youngest I'm ever going to be, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm really getting older, and so in terms of giving
Speaker 2: myself and my body kind of the best fighting chance
Speaker 2: to potentially not have those type of issues in the future,
Speaker 2: I guess I'll just go again and see what happens.
Speaker 2: And I actually ended up changing obstetricians throughout various kind
Speaker 2: of emergency delivery reasons.
Speaker 5: With Max.
Speaker 2: The obstriction I ended up with is the same obstrition
Speaker 2: that I went to when I was thinking about falling
Speaker 2: pregnant with Joe, and I talked it through him and
Speaker 2: I said, look, I'm thinking about having a second what
Speaker 2: are the risk factors here are? And he told me,
Speaker 2: And I said, is there anything that we can do
Speaker 2: different this time around to potentially decrease the risk of
Speaker 2: getting preer clamps here again? And he talked me through
Speaker 2: that as well. And so the bottom line for that
Speaker 2: for anybody who's interested is that you can take baby aspirin.
Speaker 2: That's kind of the main pre clamps he are prevented
Speaker 2: him that they recommend, which is really random. So I
Speaker 2: was on that from actually even before I started trying
Speaker 2: to fell pregnant.
Speaker 5: That was part of our.
Speaker 2: Preventative plan, and I just thought, you know, I've got
Speaker 2: the best advice. I think the obstetric is an absolute
Speaker 2: expert in that field. And I've done everything that I
Speaker 2: can to prevent it happening again, and then the rest
Speaker 2: is just in the hands of whoever it's in the
Speaker 2: hands of. And I wrote, I actually found it the
Speaker 2: other day. I wrote a little note to myself in
Speaker 2: my notes app on my phone, which I am prone
Speaker 2: to do from time to time, and that note said,
Speaker 2: if you have another baby in the nick you you
Speaker 2: will be Okay, you've.
Speaker 5: Done it before, you'll do it again.
Speaker 2: And so I just kind of kept that the whole
Speaker 2: way through, of like it was unpleasant, but it wasn't impossible,
Speaker 2: you know, and I kind of know what to expect,
Speaker 2: and I know what the good parts of it are
Speaker 2: as well as the bad parts, and you know, we're
Speaker 2: good at it now, so you know, I think if
Speaker 2: anybody could do it again, we could.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my god, you've got such a good outlook. So,
Speaker 3: what was the pregnancy and birth like with Joe?
Speaker 2: So, Joe, true to his current nature, was the craziest pregnancy. Honestly,
Speaker 2: I didn't really have a problem with him at all.
Speaker 2: Funnily enough, the anxiety almost came from because he was
Speaker 2: looking so healthy, because we could see that he was
Speaker 2: growing well, because we didn't have any indication that anything
Speaker 2: was wrong. I actually had significantly less healthy intervention and
Speaker 2: significantly fewer scans than I had with Max. And I
Speaker 2: had been used to a situation where I was seeing
Speaker 2: my baby like every couple of days towards the end
Speaker 2: of my preag and so to just kind of have
Speaker 2: somebody be like, no, everything's fine, Yeah, I see you
Speaker 2: in three weeks, I was.
Speaker 5: Like, see you in three weeks.
Speaker 2: Something happens, Like, don't you know, you know, anything of
Speaker 2: these things could go wrong. And so I think the
Speaker 2: hardest part was actually letting go and going you know,
Speaker 2: everybody's telling me that it's looking good, and all I
Speaker 2: can do is trust them and keep feeling him kicking
Speaker 2: and roll on from there.
Speaker 5: So ultimately he.
Speaker 2: Was delivered at thirty nine weeks, which was our plan,
Speaker 2: That was our best case scenario throughout the whole pregnancy.
Speaker 2: He was super healthy, he was really fat, and I
Speaker 2: basically got the birth that I didn't get to have
Speaker 2: with Max, which was pretty special.
Speaker 1: Would you say that it was healing that going through
Speaker 1: that second pregnancy and then birth, just to be able
Speaker 1: to have an experience that you had a little bit
Speaker 1: of control over, and that was like, quote unquote, like
Speaker 1: a textbook kind of pregnancy and delivery.
Speaker 2: I think it was healing in a lot of ways,
Speaker 2: but in another way, he almost reopened some old wounds
Speaker 2: because I thought a lot in the couple of days
Speaker 2: after Joe was born about how glad I was that
Speaker 2: Max was born first, because I kept thinking if I
Speaker 2: had had this experience already of having a baby taken
Speaker 2: out of me, put on my chest and not taken away,
Speaker 2: to go from that into having a second baby that
Speaker 2: I didn't get to meet for twelve hours, I think
Speaker 2: that would have been really difficult. So in a way
Speaker 2: it was healing, but in another way, it was almost like,
Speaker 2: oh my god. I almost didn't realize what I had
Speaker 2: missed until I had it, and I thought, oh wow,
Speaker 2: I can't imagine what it would feel like right now
Speaker 2: if Joe was taken away from me. But that is
Speaker 2: what happened with Max. So it was a funny time
Speaker 2: to kind of reflect on because I think I really
Speaker 2: benefited it with Max from ignorance actually, you know, I
Speaker 2: didn't really know what it was meant to look like
Speaker 2: or how it was meant to feel, and so it
Speaker 2: did didn't necessarily affect me too much when it didn't
Speaker 2: follow that path.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like hindsight. So how has the first eight
Speaker 1: months been being a mom of two?
Speaker 5: It has been an absolute joy. I just can't tell you.
Speaker 2: You know, I love being a mom and I loved
Speaker 2: being Max's mom so much. And I was worried before
Speaker 2: Joe was born because I think, I mean, I think
Speaker 2: a lot of people have this, that you have your
Speaker 2: first baby and you think they're perfect.
Speaker 5: I just don't get it.
Speaker 2: I don't get how could I love somebody else. And
Speaker 2: I honestly remember thinking to myself, like, it's okay, you
Speaker 2: love Max infinity and if you love Joe like half
Speaker 2: of infinity, like that's okay, he'll never know, Like it'll
Speaker 2: be fine, you know you would like I've be nice
Speaker 2: to him, and you know, like that's still a lot
Speaker 2: of love. And then getting to know Joe and realizing like,
Speaker 2: oh wow, okay, that love that I had for Max
Speaker 2: is just replicated and multiplied in Joe in the sense
Speaker 2: that I love them both exactly as much as each other.
Speaker 2: And then there's this whole additional element on top, which
Speaker 2: is loving seeing them together and loving them being brothers.
Speaker 2: And you know, Joe is just kind of getting to
Speaker 2: the age, so he's sitting up, he's crawling, he's kind
Speaker 2: of babbling and engaging with Max, and they are starting
Speaker 2: to I mean, it's probably a little bit early to
Speaker 2: say that they're like literally playing together, but Max is
Speaker 2: certainly handing Joe toys and kind of engaging with him
Speaker 2: like that, and that just gives me so much joy
Speaker 2: to think, you know, they have their lifetimes ahead with
Speaker 2: each other as little bugs.
Speaker 5: I just love it.
Speaker 4: That's so nice.
Speaker 3: So what did you find harder going from zero to
Speaker 3: one or one to two?
Speaker 2: For me, going to zero to one was the hardest,
Speaker 2: probably partially informed by obviously I had some health complications
Speaker 2: and Max had some health complications. But like, logistically one
Speaker 2: to two is hard, but mentally, emotionally, zero to one
Speaker 2: is incomparable because I like to think I was like
Speaker 2: a relatively good like friend and wife before Max was born,
Speaker 2: but fundamentally I was just looking out for myself basically,
Speaker 2: and then this little person comes into your life and
Speaker 2: it's this kind of seismic shift to reorient basically everything
Speaker 2: about yourself and everything about your life to focus on them.
Speaker 5: And then, even though.
Speaker 2: It's sort of the same, when you have another baby,
Speaker 2: you've already done that re orientation, so they kind of
Speaker 2: just slot into that new life that you've created for yourself,
Speaker 2: which is your life as parents, which is good because
Speaker 2: I think going from zero to one, your life as
Speaker 2: you know it kind of turns on its access. And
Speaker 2: then from one to two it's obviously a shift, but
Speaker 2: for me personally, it was nowhere near as kind of
Speaker 2: like cataclysmic as going from not being a mom to
Speaker 2: being the mum.
Speaker 1: Less, of losing your identity for like a period, more
Speaker 1: of like, oh, this is just more of that side
Speaker 1: of maths.
Speaker 2: And you know, I actually haven't even really gone through
Speaker 2: this process yet because they're quite close in age. So
Speaker 2: I felt pregnant with Joe when Max was thirteen months.
Speaker 2: I had only just stopped breastfeeding. I hadn't even really
Speaker 2: had a chance to kind of come back into myself.
Speaker 2: And even yet I can look at the situation now
Speaker 2: and go, oh, eight months, like you know this too,
Speaker 2: shell past. Do you know what I mean, like this time,
Speaker 2: when they're really little and they really need you, I
Speaker 2: can look at Max and go, okay, Joe will be
Speaker 2: like that one day. And so again it's that kind
Speaker 2: of reminder to just live in the moment and appreciate
Speaker 2: it while you've got it, because one day he's not
Speaker 2: going to want to be attached to me at the
Speaker 2: chip He'll be you know, off and being independent. And
Speaker 2: that really kind of informs how relaxed I feel about
Speaker 2: it this time around, rather than like you don't have
Speaker 2: to fix every problem, you don't have to jump onto
Speaker 2: everything as soon as it happens.
Speaker 5: You can just kind of you can really just kind
Speaker 5: of ride it out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're much more relaxed because you've already been through it.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm like looking for to the most, So
Speaker 1: being a bit more relaxed and living in the moment
Speaker 1: and remembering hopefully a little bit more. What would you
Speaker 1: say to parents who might be gearing up for a
Speaker 1: second or are currently pregnant with their second and cautiously
Speaker 1: optimistic or maybe quietly shitting themselves about that transition from
Speaker 1: one to two.
Speaker 2: I would say, you are so much more capable than
Speaker 2: you think you are. One of the things that I
Speaker 2: kind of felt quietly proud of with my second kid
Speaker 2: is watching my friends who are parenting their first kids
Speaker 2: at the same time and going like, do you know
Speaker 2: what I felt the whole time with Max? Like I
Speaker 2: wasn't getting better and like I didn't know what I
Speaker 2: was doing. But when I put myself up against somebody
Speaker 2: who is a first timer, I'm like, I'm kind of
Speaker 2: an expert in this field, actually, like what to me.
Speaker 2: You know, you will strap your newborn baby into a
Speaker 2: car seat and be like bam bam bam and looking
Speaker 2: at me like she's still got it, you know, and
Speaker 2: those kind of skills, they just make you feel so
Speaker 2: much more confident, comfortable, relaxed.
Speaker 5: You're not a first timer anymore. You know.
Speaker 2: When you're a first time mom, you're learning how to
Speaker 2: be a mom and your baby's learning how to be
Speaker 2: a baby. But when you're a second time mom, your
Speaker 2: baby's still learning how to be a baby, but you
Speaker 2: already know how to be a mom, And that feels
Speaker 2: quite powerful.
Speaker 1: I love that you're so right, Like, oh, why, that's
Speaker 1: half of it, isn't it. It's because like, yeah, you're
Speaker 1: not learning a new skill you're just welcoming this little
Speaker 1: person and getting to know them, and you've got all
Speaker 1: the tools under your belt, and you've got another baby
Speaker 1: that's you know, or a toddler that's up and about already.
Speaker 1: I love this. Okay, I'm feeling a lot better. I'm
Speaker 1: feeling a lot better.
Speaker 5: It's very exciting, and you should be excited. So in
Speaker 5: a couple of.
Speaker 3: Months you might be ready to be like, get well, third,
Speaker 3: come on.
Speaker 5: Look.
Speaker 2: To be honest, I have told myself that I'll have
Speaker 2: a year off between speeding and next pregnancy, So we'll
Speaker 2: see how that goes, and we'll see where we are.
Speaker 2: At the moment. We can't get any more babies in
Speaker 2: our house, so we're capacity out the logistics of that.
Speaker 5: But yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Think, yeah, there is a possibility that might want to
Speaker 2: go for a third, just because like I like it.
Speaker 3: On the opposite end of this one to two spectrum,
Speaker 3: we have my bestie Ashley, who found, of course having
Speaker 3: a baby shocked her, but she found going from zero
Speaker 3: to one Harley much easier than going from one to two.
Speaker 3: With the little Audrey or Rosita as we call her
Speaker 3: when she's being naughty with a little personality, so welcome back.
Speaker 3: Ash pregnancy with Harley number one, Tell me about it.
Speaker 4: Tell me about the pregnancy and birth.
Speaker 6: I feel like Harley was like the unicorn pregnancy. I've
Speaker 6: had no symptom.
Speaker 4: No, you enjoyed your food. Literally, I think my.
Speaker 6: Diet consisted of donuts and diet coke.
Speaker 3: I once saw her consumed six Krispy kremes in one go. Oh,
Speaker 3: and you know what, don't judge you, No, no judgment
Speaker 3: at all. I feel like, did you get gd with
Speaker 3: the second pregnancy? I did, potentially I learned from my mistakes.
Speaker 6: Clearly not, but yeah, I had a pretty positive experience,
Speaker 6: I'd say.
Speaker 3: And then post birth was I reckon up until the
Speaker 3: six month mark, Like he kind of checked all the milestones,
Speaker 3: like breast fine, yeah, fred from like milk the breast
Speaker 3: until he was six months, pretty textbook sleeper. And Matt
Speaker 3: was home I reckon the first month, so he would
Speaker 3: help me put Harley to bed, and then if he
Speaker 3: woke up, Matt would literally get him out of the basinette,
Speaker 3: change his nappy, burp him, and then.
Speaker 4: Like give him back to me. Yes, daddy, I mean
Speaker 4: the bar's low for men, but good.
Speaker 3: I feel like he really wanted to kind of step
Speaker 3: into that role. He was superhands on. Yeah, he wanted
Speaker 3: kids like way locker than you did.
Speaker 5: I Reckon.
Speaker 4: He was like twenty five, is like, when are you
Speaker 4: going to start making babies.
Speaker 3: I was like, no, I'm still going to Greenwood every Sunday.
Speaker 1: He's still gallivanting, living my best, goddamn life. I just
Speaker 1: come back from you.
Speaker 4: But I was like, I'm not on Saturday. It's Greenwood
Speaker 4: on Sundays.
Speaker 6: But yeah, So I was really lucky to have Matt
Speaker 6: there that first month because I felt like that kind
Speaker 6: of softened the blow.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, you decided quite quickly then to have another baby. Well,
Speaker 3: there's two and a half years between them, so I
Speaker 3: feel like we kind of made the decision around I Reckon.
Speaker 4: Harley was probably eighteen months.
Speaker 6: We're like, okay, yeah, maybe it's time to start trying again,
Speaker 6: but not realizing that I was fertile as fuck.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Literally, she just looks at a penis and gets pregnant,
Speaker 3: which we didn't realize because it took you about a
Speaker 3: year to fall with Harlee.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you were really young.
Speaker 3: But then with your subsequent pregnancies, it's like, well, I'm pregnant.
Speaker 1: It literally was, So there's yeah, like two and a
Speaker 1: half half years.
Speaker 6: But I wouldn't say there's like any ideal gap because
Speaker 6: there's three years between Bailey and Audrey, and even still
Speaker 6: that feels like they're really close.
Speaker 4: So I don't think there's any right way to do it. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I agree.
Speaker 3: We made the decision when Harley was probably about eighteen
Speaker 3: nineteen months and then this is so nice everyonem playing
Speaker 3: along at home just to listen to the beautiful beauty.
Speaker 6: We're just trying to like listening and be like hearing
Speaker 6: the decibels.
Speaker 4: And the witch of the at the moment, everything's fine,
Speaker 4: and deciphering what child is he's a cranky little thing.
Speaker 1: Wha was or where were we?
Speaker 4: You felt pregnant with Audrey quite quickly.
Speaker 6: Yeah, within like two months. Found out that it did
Speaker 6: have gestational diabetes, which didn't really affect me much sense
Speaker 6: other than the fact that I had to tweak my
Speaker 6: diet a little bit.
Speaker 3: Like it was actually so much healthier the second time around, though,
Speaker 3: compared to how you ate with Harley.
Speaker 6: And I feel like at the time I was like,
Speaker 6: oh my god, why me, Like it's he's not fair,
Speaker 6: But then I was like, actually, if it was managed,
Speaker 6: Like I know that some people obviously have to take insulin,
Speaker 6: but I was able to kind of manage it with diet,
Speaker 6: and it just made me more aware of what I
Speaker 6: was actually eating, whereas the first time, I was like,
Speaker 6: I don't give a fuck, Like I'm gonna eat what
Speaker 6: I want.
Speaker 3: Is Harley still sailing along as a pretty textbook toddler
Speaker 3: in a lot of ways.
Speaker 4: Yes, but I feel like I had nothing to compare
Speaker 4: it to.
Speaker 3: So at the time, Yeah, because you were pretty early
Speaker 3: with your friendship groups as well. Yeah, so a couple
Speaker 3: of us had had kids who were around the same
Speaker 3: age or a little bit younger. In a lot of ways,
Speaker 3: I feel like I just kind of rolled with a punch.
Speaker 3: So I was like, ah, boy, mum, shit, Like he's active,
Speaker 3: he has a lot of feelings.
Speaker 4: He still has a lot of feelings.
Speaker 3: But yeah, so up until he was about two and
Speaker 3: a half, I think he was, Yeah, he was pretty
Speaker 3: textbook toddler. He slept through the night from like eight months,
Speaker 3: so I.
Speaker 4: Was like, yay, eight months is actually amazing.
Speaker 6: It's not very common for kids in any sense to
Speaker 6: be able to sleep through the night. They will have
Speaker 6: those sleep cycles and they will wake up. Some kids
Speaker 6: can put themselves back to sleep and then others can't. Yeah,
Speaker 6: so and every night's different as well, exactly. So Audrey
Speaker 6: didn't sleep a full night until she was two. Bailey
Speaker 6: didn't sleep a full night until it was like recently,
Speaker 6: until maybe it was like fourteen months. Yeah, so every
Speaker 6: kid was so different in that sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so birth Audrey different Haarlee.
Speaker 6: No, it was actually really good too, Like I feel
Speaker 6: like all of my berths.
Speaker 3: You've had beautiful berths. Eppie's private hospital, so she had
Speaker 3: a beautiful hotel stay. As she would say, I didn't
Speaker 3: want to leave. Yeah, she was like, it's like a holiday.
Speaker 1: You had like.
Speaker 4: Finger sandwiches like three times a day.
Speaker 1: You could order eat bed.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, there was not.
Speaker 6: But I did bring my own and I bought my
Speaker 6: own essential oils, my own thermos, so I.
Speaker 1: Didn't need to leave.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I didn't want to had great birthing facilities.
Speaker 4: I actually enjoyed the berths.
Speaker 3: At the end of the day. It's like one day
Speaker 3: and you're getting a human out of your body.
Speaker 4: It's awesome. Yeah, it is. It's awesome.
Speaker 6: Going back to Harley's how he kind of like regressed
Speaker 6: after I had her.
Speaker 4: I bought her back. Yay, here's your baby sister.
Speaker 6: He actually responded well. So he came into the hospital
Speaker 6: and he met her for the first night. Was really
Speaker 6: cute and like gave her the little bath and stuff
Speaker 6: like that, like super cute. And then we bought her
Speaker 6: home and everything seemed like happy dandy. And then he
Speaker 6: had that as every toddler has, like if you bring
Speaker 6: a human home, it's.
Speaker 4: Like, I don't really feel like sharing my parents out
Speaker 4: with you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, send it.
Speaker 4: I did not ask for that.
Speaker 1: Put it back.
Speaker 4: So I feel like he really struggled with that.
Speaker 3: And then around three, he was probably closer to three,
Speaker 3: he started having his night terrors.
Speaker 4: Oh do you remember that?
Speaker 3: Yes, And it was for about a year, like he
Speaker 3: would wake up screaming, soluble, yeah, sweating, like he was
Speaker 3: really in it.
Speaker 6: And then I had to sleep in his bed because
Speaker 6: he would have them like three or four times a night.
Speaker 3: So it was easier just to settle him exactly. So
Speaker 3: I slept in his bed for then You're still feeding Audrey.
Speaker 1: So we okay.
Speaker 6: So by that time, Audrey was about six months old
Speaker 6: and I was still breastfeeding her, but I did. I
Speaker 6: think I was doing like a dream feed about ten
Speaker 6: o'clock and then Matt would come in and give her
Speaker 6: a feed. If she was to wake up, then I
Speaker 6: might go from Harley's room to give her another feed
Speaker 6: at like two or three. Then she go back to sleep,
Speaker 6: and then Matt would put her back. So it was
Speaker 6: a real shit fight, like for at least a good
Speaker 6: year and a half. But then I look back, I
Speaker 6: was like, fuck, Like we survived that.
Speaker 3: But so why do you because you said they wanted
Speaker 3: to be honest, why did you find it so much
Speaker 3: harder to go from one to two than from zero
Speaker 3: to one? Because most people say zero to one is
Speaker 3: way harder because like it's a shock to the system.
Speaker 3: You don't know what you're doing. So what do you
Speaker 3: think made it so hard to go one to two?
Speaker 6: In a lot of ways, like looking at my resources
Speaker 6: as well, like Matt went back to work after two
Speaker 6: weeks yep.
Speaker 4: Instead of being there the whole month.
Speaker 3: And to be honest, I was not prepared for that
Speaker 3: because Harley was still.
Speaker 4: You know, two and a half years old and hit daycare.
Speaker 4: I think he was like one day at the time.
Speaker 6: So I pretty much had them both twenty four to seven,
Speaker 6: from when Matt went back to work after she was
Speaker 6: two weeks old, and I remember like bringing her home
Speaker 6: and after that first week he went back and like
Speaker 6: making myself breakfast, making Harley breakfast. I remember I told
Speaker 6: you this story, but I had her like on the
Speaker 6: tit making him breakfast, shelling eggs and just being like,
Speaker 6: I don't know how people do this, Like this is
Speaker 6: so much more than I thought. Yeah, And I was like, Okay,
Speaker 6: if this is what my wife is going to be like,
Speaker 6: I'm like, I'm just gonna have to adapt and adjust
Speaker 6: and like you would with.
Speaker 3: Anything, but very good at that though. I feel like
Speaker 3: from one you have two tits, two hands, like and
Speaker 3: one baby, and then you go from one to two
Speaker 3: and you've still got the same amount of hands and
Speaker 3: tits and you're like, but there's two humans. Yep, So
Speaker 3: you know the ratios are not in your favor in
Speaker 3: that sense. Yeah, And then you chose to have a
Speaker 3: third though, so you're like out numbered even with your partner.
Speaker 4: I need like extra limbs. So when do you think
Speaker 4: that you found your groove?
Speaker 1: Still have it?
Speaker 3: No? I reckon probably around the six month mark, I
Speaker 3: was getting out a lot more. I felt confident to
Speaker 3: go out with both of them. What was Audrew like
Speaker 3: as a baby in comparison? Was she more difficult? Do
Speaker 3: you think that?
Speaker 1: I don't think she was more difficult. Chill? She was chill.
Speaker 3: She was a child, a textbook contempt, like I can just.
Speaker 4: Bring around anywhere and she'd be like in the Little
Speaker 4: two she was delish.
Speaker 6: But yeah, so I feel like she was just chill,
Speaker 6: like she wasn't too demanding in that sense.
Speaker 3: But I still found it really hard because two they're
Speaker 3: still trying to like assert themselves in like certain ways.
Speaker 3: But then three they're like, I know who I am,
Speaker 3: and I know what buttons to push and what buttons
Speaker 3: to push to get what I want, and they fucking
Speaker 3: push them.
Speaker 4: Oh and they built stuff ever.
Speaker 3: Ever and it don't snap ever anything that helped you
Speaker 3: or that you would like to impart wisdom as a
Speaker 3: mother of three.
Speaker 4: Now, you know what I've.
Speaker 6: Given myself the advice now, and I wish I had
Speaker 6: taken it earlier, but is to really and I know
Speaker 6: that everyone says it's like carve out me time, like
Speaker 6: sleep in the baby seats. It's like unconditionally put aside
Speaker 6: thirty minutes to an hour just.
Speaker 3: For yourself, which is so much easier said than done.
Speaker 3: But I got rid of social media for that reason
Speaker 3: because I found that whenever I had a moment to myself,
Speaker 3: I'd be scrolling Instagram or going in social media, and
Speaker 3: that was my downtime. Like I could just kind of
Speaker 3: zone out.
Speaker 4: I was thinking.
Speaker 6: I was like, I need to get rid of something.
Speaker 6: So I just had to get rid of it, like
Speaker 6: cold turkey. It was an energy leak for me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, a drain, a real drain for me.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And I would say that one hundred percent is it
Speaker 3: does not benefit you in nearly the same way that
Speaker 3: it drains.
Speaker 1: That's the thing.
Speaker 6: Like I kind of had this relationship with it where
Speaker 6: I always.
Speaker 4: Told myself, I was like, okay, you've got fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1: On instat you always just end up.
Speaker 6: I was like, bitch, you been on here for three
Speaker 6: I was like, go the fuck to bed, like your
Speaker 6: kid's going to be up in twenty minutes, Like go
Speaker 6: to sleep.
Speaker 4: And I couldn't.
Speaker 3: It's so easy to waste time on social media. I
Speaker 3: could be sleeping, yeah, and that's way better for you.
Speaker 6: So carving out that time, like and now, even if
Speaker 6: the kids are at home and I've done like all
Speaker 6: the mum stuff, wait until they've gone to bed and then.
Speaker 3: Make my green tea. Just getting things that make you happy.
Speaker 3: And it might be like a puzzle, a puzzle and
Speaker 3: a puzzle caddy and a puzzle cat. I didn't know
Speaker 3: you had one of those.
Speaker 6: Oh hey makes happy, it brings that is that is
Speaker 6: correct anyway? Yes, So just things that make you happy,
Speaker 6: like green tea and a candle and a book, a
Speaker 6: trashy book like, it doesn't matter what it is, but
Speaker 6: make sure that that time is just for you. And
Speaker 6: it might be scrolling social media, but if it's something
Speaker 6: that you know involves something that's more kind of filling
Speaker 6: that internal cup, then that's definitely what I would suggest.
Speaker 4: I think that's beautiful advice. Thank you, Ashley, You're very welcome.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Zoe and Ashley for joining us.
Speaker 3: We very much so appreciate your insights.
Speaker 1: I think it's just nice to hear different stories and
Speaker 1: just true accounts of what it's really like. I know
Speaker 1: I'm feeling a little bit better.
Speaker 3: I also think that your experience at the end of
Speaker 3: the day is going to come down to what sort
Speaker 3: of baby you have, Like what the baby's temperament is, Like,
Speaker 3: that's all.
Speaker 1: What it comes down to, and that's not anything you
Speaker 1: can control. So it's we'll find out.
Speaker 3: But can you have a recommendation for us today?
Speaker 1: I do? This is my god. I am very excited
Speaker 1: to talk about this recommendation.
Speaker 3: It's like everyone that we've spoken to today would fall
Speaker 3: under this category.
Speaker 1: Yes, it is a television series and it's called Breeders.
Speaker 4: He's a very hungry caterpillar. That is his whole thing.
Speaker 1: Howerful.
Speaker 4: Monday, he ate three one apple but was that enough?
Speaker 1: On Tuesday he ate through two pairs, but he was
Speaker 1: still hungry.
Speaker 4: What did he eat on Wednesday?
Speaker 1: Danny was full the end?
Speaker 5: Good night?
Speaker 1: No now it is. I don't know why.
Speaker 3: It's just so funny given today's topic.
Speaker 1: When I was prepping for this, I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: fucking putting it in Broady and I are loving it.
Speaker 1: All seasons are on Disney Plus. But if you don't
Speaker 1: have Disney Plus, they've just put seasons one and two
Speaker 1: on ABC iView. How many seasons are the show or five?
Speaker 1: I know, but I saw it on the splash on
Speaker 1: iView and it was like coming soon. Watched the trailer
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, this is a bit of me,
Speaker 1: This is a bit of me, This is a lot
Speaker 1: of bit of you.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Our additions are a bit rude, Kelly. Okay mccaren, they
Speaker 1: are take it right now.
Speaker 3: This is not sci fi, that weird Christmas genre that
Speaker 3: you were into last year. Okay.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna apologize for my weird Christmas genre because
Speaker 1: that's what I love. It's what brings me joy. Okay.
Speaker 1: But this is like dark humor around parenting.
Speaker 3: Okay, Kelly, that's awesome podcast around parenting fun?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 4: Is it English? Yes?
Speaker 3: Okay, I mean I mean, I mean, I'm just recommended
Speaker 3: if it's America.
Speaker 1: Hello, the banter with the British.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the American Office beg.
Speaker 1: To different with you on that one.
Speaker 4: So you are a UK Office fan.
Speaker 1: So basically it centers around two characters. I think his
Speaker 1: name is Dave and Ali, who are parents to two kids,
Speaker 1: and it's just ridiculous. He's got a bit of a rage,
Speaker 1: so he fucking yells at the kids. This may put
Speaker 1: some people off, but he loves them. And the thing
Speaker 1: is he was free having a kid. He was really
Speaker 1: good with kids, a really gentle soul, but having kids
Speaker 1: broke him. Oh and he has like this rage and
Speaker 1: it kind of is weaving through the story, but it
Speaker 1: just brings up things that just happen all the time
Speaker 1: in relation to sleeping. So like for the first episode,
Speaker 1: this is what got Charlie and I hooked. It was like,
Speaker 1: you know, you're laying in bed and the kid calls
Speaker 1: out like mummy, daddy, and you kind of lay there
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, maybe you go. And it's like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm getting up early in the morning. I've got work.
Speaker 1: And then he's like to her, but aren't you working
Speaker 1: from home? And she's like, yeah, but working from home.
Speaker 4: Stool to working.
Speaker 1: So it's like immediately Charlie and I look at each
Speaker 1: other like that's a conversation every single COULFL has had,
Speaker 1: a couple has Oh.
Speaker 4: My goodness came, I'm going to start.
Speaker 1: I want to give too much away because I think
Speaker 1: us watching it and things just happening has been so
Speaker 1: joyful of fun to watch. It does get dark in moments,
Speaker 1: it doesn't shy away from the hard stuff, So just
Speaker 1: be prepared for that, but the lessons in it, I
Speaker 1: think just seeing people who are really struggling through parenting
Speaker 1: and life is quite comforting. Yes, and knowing that everyone
Speaker 1: is like at the end of the day, they're doing
Speaker 1: their best. You fall in love with these characters. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and yeah, we're kind of almost at the end of
Speaker 1: season two and it's good. And that does jump a
Speaker 1: little bit each season, so the kids are a bit
Speaker 1: older and next season, so if you're not in that
Speaker 1: newborn phase, you know this next season you'll be able
Speaker 1: to see yourself kind of marrit In as well. So
Speaker 1: it's fantastic, really clever, dark but really funny.
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm gonna start watching it tonight.
Speaker 1: Yeah, do it.
Speaker 3: That's such a good recommendation. I approve with that one.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining us today. Please share
Speaker 3: the pod on your socials and let us know what
Speaker 3: you think.
Speaker 4: And you can rate and review us. We would be
Speaker 4: mightially grateful.
Speaker 1: Yes, it really does help us and reaching more parents
Speaker 1: who are struggling and getting in there. That's our target. Demo.
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by myself, Keith re Cells, and
Speaker 1: Kelly mccaren, with audio production by Madeleine Joanno. Bye Bye